I back maloney.

[Greencore]

Honestly, the better side lost. Given our injurys and depending where we finish from now to the end of the season, I'd give him a next season. Hearts done nothing in the second half.

Don't worry they'll get pumped in the final.

[Waxy]

By far the better side but we appear to be jinxed.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Keep 11 men for those last 25 minutes and who knows

[Since452]

Did everything I asked. Heart and fight.

[weecounty hibby]

Honestly, the better side lost. Given our injurys and depending where we finish from now to the end of the season, I'd give him a next season. Hearts done nothing in the second half.

Don't worry they'll get pumped in the final.
Well get slaughtered for this but I completely agree. We never ever get a break against those *******s

[Greencore]

Keep 11 men for those last 25 minutes and who knows

Aye, Newell is an idiot. Fs

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

If we'd played like that since he'd come in he'd have plenty credit in the bank

But we haven't. We've been mostly poor. Lost out on sixth and now lost to hearts in the semi final

We didn't deserve to lose today. But we did

[mcfly]

Maloney should have subbed Newall

Was obvious to anyone he would get a second yellow.

Poor management from him.

I’m unconvinced he deserves to stay.

YET another hampden letdown.

[Waxy]

Also beginning to think we will never finish a match at hampden against them with 11 men.
Beaton had that under control from the start.

[Greencore]

Well get slaughtered for this but I completely agree. We never ever get a break against those *******s

Half our team are out. Hearts time wasting and got the breaks. I would give maloney next season

They will definitely get pumped in the final.

[DaveF]

So do I. The Hibs board need to back him, ship out the ***** and let him build a team.

[leithsansiro]

Keep Maloney.
There’s enough there to show we can build something. Recruitment MUST be better though and he needs to grow tactically and quickly

[loanheadhibby]

You must be trolling! Keep Maloney. We’ve played ****bos twice and lost 5 2 over the 2 games.

Maloney out and take Newell with him.

[Greencore]

You must be trolling! Keep Maloney. We’ve played ****bos twice and lost 5 2 over the 2 games.

Maloney out and take Newell with him.


If it was ross in charge today it would have been 4-0

Ross never used to have us attack the game.

Second half was all hibs.


I agree with taking Newell away though.

[SteveHFC]

You must be trolling! Keep Maloney. We’ve played ****bos twice and lost 5 2 over the 2 games.

Maloney out and take Newell with him.

Aye one good performance and we should keep him.

Get him out.

[Dublin07]

He has made a lot of mistakes but today got heart and fight from the team that not many before him have managed.
They scored 2 wonder goals and carried all the luck and ref as usual. We need to stop sacking every manager after a few months. Let him have the summer to rebuild the team and see where we are by the break for the World Cup.
Hate to say it but we were Martin Boyle away from winning that game today and that is not maloneys fault!

[heretoday]

So do I. The Hibs board need to back him, ship out the ***** and let him build a team.

I agree. It's a marathon not a sprint.

[loanheadhibby]

Aye one good performance and we should keep him.

Get him out.

A good performance as you say however same end result.

It’s a losers mentality to hold on to a manager who has just been beaten twice by your local rivals.

Hopefully Caldwell away with him.

[Juniper Greens]

We only improved when the game plan went out the window
Shows me that we have a decent team but the managerial side has fuvked us. Maloney out for me

[blackpoolhibs]

How's Maloneys record in big games?

[weecounty hibby]

How's Maloneys record in big games?
His record in all games is pretty ****, but I'd keep him for next season. Thought we played well today and never got a break. I really feel if he is given funds and his own players he will turn us into a pretty good side. I am fully prepared for all the flak about to come my way!!

[Pete]

I back him too. Let's build on that and let him get some decent players in.

Heartbreaking but proud of the performance.

[500miles]

I think we had experience on the park and it helped a lot. He's signed too many young players and had to chuck them in at the deep end.

We'll see how we deal with the rest of the season, but I want at least 2 home wins and an away win.

[marinello59]

We know feelings are running hIgh, we are all hurting but can we do this without any personal abuse getting thrown around.
Thanks .

[MWHIBBIES]

Don't blame him for today. Although his style of play cost us the first. It's our abysmal form for months that's screwed us.

Injuries are fair enough but have we really looked like a good side just missing a few injured players.

He isn't going to he sacked so we'll need to back him and back him loudly.

[Frazerbob]

I don’t. The day I accept losing to Hearts is the day I give it up.

[Joe6-2]

We know feelings are running hIgh, we are all hurting but can we do this without any personal abuse getting thrown around.
Thanks .

This

[loanheadhibby]

You are another ****ing troll, never have you said a positive thing about hibs, constant trolling, **** off and let fans discuss
You're not interested in honest opinions?

[SteveHFC]

I don’t. The day I accept losing to Hearts is the day I give it up.

This.

[mcfly]

If maloney wants to keep his job he needs to build his team around todays successes.

Cadden, Clarke, Stevenson were all excellent

McGinn, hanlon, Macey sorry nowhere near good enough.

We need a winning mentality at hibs/ the serial losers need to go.

[Bridge hibs]

That seems a bright response.

Let’s discuss 2 defeats in 2 games against the ****bos then?You are a constant negative, lets discuss positives, nope, you are a ****ing troll

[Stubbsy90+2]

So do I. The Hibs board need to back him, ship out the ***** and let him build a team.

Agree with every word of this. We need to back him. The squad he’s got is a shambles.

[Hibbyradge]

You must be trolling! Keep Maloney. We’ve played ****bos twice and lost 5 2 over the 2 games.

Maloney out and take Newell with him.

Something negative from you. Nice change from your usual relentless positivity and optimism.

Good work.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

That seems a bright response.

Let’s discuss 2 defeats in 2 games against the ****bos then?

Had we been battered today I'd agree that would have a bearing on SM staying or going.

I'm more concerned with the slow and ponderous results against the likes of St Mirren and Co that led to us finishing in the bottom six

After last week, most expected a doing. But the players showed they will fight for the badge at least

There is a genuine question mark over the future of SM. The modern world demands instant gratification. I myself probably just about lean towards a change but would like to see over the next few games SM build momentum with performances like today because we'll win more than we'll lose playing like that

[DetroitHibs]

A good performance, but yet another loss. The mediocrity that some fans are willing to put up with is mind boggling.

[LunasBoots]

I don't

[Allant1981]

Will back the team but its getting hard now to back the manager

[Bridge hibs]

You're not interested in honest opinions?Ive read at least 100 of your posts, you are a 100% troll, can you defend that ?You constantly down players and you are at it again, troll

[IberianHibernian]

Back him 100% and it`s obvious the players do too . We`ve got a limited squad but with a few signings in summer we can be challenging for Europe by league position .

[Greencore]

I don’t. The day I accept losing to Hearts is the day I give it up.

Please explain to me where I mentioned an acceptance of losing to the filth?

If it was ross in charge we would have lost more then 2.

Fact.

[HibeeHendo]

A good performance, but yet another loss. The mediocrity that some fans are willing to put up with is mind boggling.

Clearly played really well for the majority of the game then newell does what newell does.

I’m nott saying he’s been perfect but he Inherited a mess from Ross and has had horrendous luck with injuries.

Our fans are the worst honestly, give him a ****ing chance.

[Gatecrasher]

I don't, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's going to turn this around and keeping him on is only delaying the inevitable and wasting the clubs resources.

Ron Gordon and those involved in running the club should be taking a close look at themselves as well. I'm sure season tickets are going to drop by a lot this year.

[jeffers]

Maloney should have subbed Newall

Was obvious to anyone he would get a second yellow.

Poor management from him.

I’m unconvinced he deserves to stay.

YET another hampden letdown.

Totally agree. He got away with a potential yellow when he challenged Haring, was clear to see he was on thin ice. That and taking off Stevenson and bringing on Josh Campbell.

[Callum_62]

If maloney wants to keep his job he needs to build his team around todays successes.

Cadden, Clarke, Stevenson were all excellent

McGinn, hanlon, Macey sorry nowhere near good enough.

We need a winning mentality at hibs/ the serial losers need to go.Exactly this

If we continue with that fight and desire for the last 5 games of the season id keep him on

If we don't then it will be curtains



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[Greencore]

I don't, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's going to turn this around and keeping him on is only delaying the inevitable and wasting the clubs resources.

Ron Gordon and those involved in running the club should be taking a close look at themselves as well. I'm sure season tickets are going to drop by a lot this year.


2nd half and Any other past 5 hibs managers would have lost more then 2 goals, convince me other wise. Give him a summer transfer window with his own players in place.

[at last 61]

Keep maloney, but he needs someone in beside him and sorry Caldwell isn't that man, you don't always see things but someone should have told him that newell was lucky when he pulled a players shirt I could see the red card coming but nothing happened, there's still next year

[sleeping giant]

Im in the keep Maloney camp.
Decimated with injuries this season.

[Callum_62]

Totally agree. He got away with a potential yellow when he challenged Haring, was clear to see he was on thin ice. That and taking off Stevenson and bringing on Josh Campbell.There was abolsutely nothing in the haring challenge

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[Greencore]

No, it’s clearly not a FACT and where did I say you did say that. Away sleep it off ya clown.

Again where did I say it was acceptable to lose to them ?

Again, if it was ross in charge we would have lost more then 2

Calm down petal.

[500miles]

There was abolsutely nothing in the haring challenge

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They were chucking themselves about trying to get him sent off, then tried the same with Hanlon.

Maloney should have spotted it like.

[Waxy]

We need taken over by someone with megabucks.

[Northernhibee]

We’re backing a manager because out of two derbies, we put in effort in one. We still lost both.

What is going on?

[jeffers]

There was abolsutely nothing in the haring challenge

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Disagree, his arm was up. Seen yellows given for that type of challenge a number of times. Then factor in who the referee was.

[hhibs]

Keep maloney, but he needs someone in beside him and sorry Caldwell isn't that man, you don't always see things but someone should have told him that newell was lucky when he pulled a players shirt I could see the red card coming but nothing happened, there's still next year

He will not get rid off Caldwell ,so just get rid,in any case IMHO opinion Maloney is just not capable of being a manager or head coach in the rough and tumble and few resources of Scottish football

[Iain G]

Also beginning to think we will never finish a match at hampden against them with 11 men.
Beaton had that under control from the start.

What? It was Joe Newell and his poor decision making that earned him two deserved yellows!

[Pretty Boy]

One swallow and all that.

We need another 5 performances like that between now and the end of the season, with a few points thrown in, to see him eanr the time to build his own side.

As heartening as the performance was we did still ultimately lose.

[Callum_62]

Disagree, his arm was up. Seen yellows given for that type of challenge a number of times. Then factor in who the referee was.It wouod have been the softest yellow card in history

Given Taylor Moore didn't get one for a off the ball wresting move [emoji23][emoji23]

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[Wakeyhibee]

Bad result, but that's the best fighting and playing performance i've seen in a while. SM has a huge job ahead and i'm far from convinced he and our owners can do it.

However, after writing off today before kick off, i saw more positives than negatives. I'm less convinced a change would do any better, so I'm willing to give this a summer window to see how this progresses.

[SeanWilson]

Best I’ve seen is player under him. He’s still a muppet. Newell was red card waiting to happen and the subs were atrocious.

[Waxy]

What? It was Joe Newell and his poor decision making that earned him two deserved yellows!

Was the first yellow deserved?

[Callum_62]

Was the first yellow deserved?100 percent on seeing the reply

Infact it's a orange card probably

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[Greencore]

In order for it to work with maloney and not shift to some other manager next season, the board need to back him financially.

[loanheadhibby]

Ive read at least 100 of your posts, you are a 100% troll, can you defend that ?You constantly down players and you are at it again, troll

What’s the positives today?

You appear to have a losers mentality. Happy with another defeat?

[Northernhibee]

In order for it to work with maloney and not shift to some other manager next season, the board need to back him financially.

They have done.

[Steve20]

We lost both derbies. We were a disgrace in one and better today, but we still lost. Losing to Hearts in a semi final again is not acceptable. The mentality at this club needs changed ASAP. Pleased because we got ‘effort’. That should be a given.

Maloney has been a shambles. Cut this loser mentality out.

[Wilson]

One swallow and all that.

We need another 5 performances like that between now and the end of the season, with a few points thrown in, to see him eanr the time to build his own side.

As heartening as the performance was we did still ultimately lose.

We can only achieve best of the bottom six. Who really cares? Why judge him against the dross now the games that mattered are over?

[Northernhibee]

We can only achieve best of the bottom six. Who really cares? Why judge him against the dross now the games that mattered are over?

Because he’s put us in this position.

[Greencore]

They have done.

Has maloney been able to make space though ? Shipout injury Prone and simply not good enough players though?? I don't think so.

[B.H.F.C]

They have done.

No they’ve not. Spent money on Melkersen who would have been here regardless of who the manager was.

Other than that it’s predominantly been loans for young, unproven players.

That’s no me trying to defend Maloney, but there seems to be a thought that he’s spent a fortune and it’s not the case.

[CMac1988]

Not sure changing manager is the answer as it's obvious we just don't have the quality. That said I'm not fussed either way.

A lot more ire should be directed at Ron and Ben. They've played a much larger role in our gash season than Maloney has.

[B.H.F.C]

We lost both derbies. We were a disgrace in one and better today, but we still lost. Losing to Hearts in a semi final again is not acceptable. The mentality at this club needs changed ASAP. Pleased because we got ‘effort’. That should be a given.

Maloney has been a shambles. Cut this loser mentality out.

Agree. Sickening today.

[Basildon Hibs]

Not sure changing manager is the answer as it's obvious we just don't have the quality. That said I'm not fussed either way.

A lot more ire should be directed at Ron and Ben. They've played a much larger role in our gash season than Maloney has.

No they haven't.

[Callum_62]

What’s the positives today?

You appear to have a losers mentality. Happy with another defeat?Christ you are still saying the same stuff I told you over an hour ago you'd say?

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[Chorley Hibee]

Not interested in hard luck stories.

For as well as we played second half, the simple fact is we've lost, yet again, to our bitterest rivals at Hampden Park.

A result built upon the foundations of an abysmal first twenty minutes today, the appointment of a dreadful manager, two shocking transfer windows, and an owner and CEO who are looking more out of their depth by the day.

People trying to dress up this latest failure as a modicum of success is part of the problem.

[Callum_62]

Not interested in hard luck stories.

For as well as we played second half, the simple fact is we've lost, yet again, to our bitterest rivals at Hampden Park.

A result built upon the foundations of an abysmal first twenty minutes today, the appointment of a dreadful manager, two shocking transfer windows, and an owner and CEO who are looking more out of their depth by the day.

People trying to dress up this latest failure as a modicum of success is part of the problem.We Wernt abysmal in the first 20 minutes

We were absolutely fine... Gave simms the chance which he probably scores 1 outta ten then Kingsley scored an absolute pearler

The whole half was 50/50ish game

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[J-C]

Changed tactics, changed players and changed attitudes, Newell getting sent off changed the game, yes we're still miles short in quality but the fact he had us competing all game today shows he has something. Back him in summer and let's see what he can do, if he's still struggling next season then fair enough. These players have proved over the whole season under 2 managers that they are just not good enough, time to change that.

[A Hi-Bee]

In order for it to work with maloney and not shift to some other manager next season, the board need to back him financially.

He needs backed big time, we need some real quality players with caveman already talking about how much this season for the manky ones has been all about getting more finance next year by getting into Europe, it has been a particularly bad year for Hibs to screw up, costing a fortune.

[Iain G]

Will back the team but its getting hard now to back the manager

Why do you feel it's hard to back Maloney? Am curious as I think it's quite easy to support him in what the longer term vision here is.

[Chorley Hibee]

We Wernt abysmal in the first 20 minutes

We were absolutely fine... Gave simms the chance which he probably scores 1 outta ten then Kingsley scored an absolute pearler

The whole half was 50/50ish game

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The Hearts first goal arrived through yet more mistakes by Hibs playing out from the back.

The idea that first twenty minutes, in the biggest game of our season, was fine to you I find baffling.

[Nutmegged]

Shaun Maloney is a talented coach and a man highly respected, It's his first gig in management and given the mess he inherited it was never going to be a quick or easy fix, in that regard I hope he's given time but I havr absolutely zero faith or belief in this squad of players, I feel there needs to be a major overhaul in the same sense as what Stubbs had in 2014, there's very few I'd keep and even less I'd be gutted to see leave.

Recruitment is going to have to be near perfect in the Summer if we're going to be going for 3rd mext season, the one saving grace is no-one outside of Celtic or Rangers look that great but just being better than the rest isn't enough, that's what we were last season and it wasn't good enough, we need to be aiming to be the club we looked like becoming in 2018, it feels like a Million miles away now.

[LaMotta]

The Hearts first goal arrived through yet more mistakes by Hibs playing out from the back.

The idea that first twenty minutes, in the biggest game of our season, was fine to you I find baffling.

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.

[Callum_62]

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.Hahha fuds. Touché.

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[J-C]

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.

Clueless fuds, keep it classy mate, jeez 🤡

[Stubbsy90+2]

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.

Classy.

[Callum_62]

The Hearts first goal arrived through yet more mistakes by Hibs playing out from the back.

The idea that first twenty minutes, in the biggest game of our season, was fine to you I find baffling.We made a mistake which simms done well to score from

The first 15 mins (when this board was generally ****ting it and saying we will be bullied etc) we're anything but

We started decently, we were the better side overall and didn't let hearts win the physical battle like they did last week

Particulary 2nd half but the first half was also a 50/50 game hence why the whole panel on the BBC said we actually shaded it in there opiniom

I know that doesn't fit with Maloney is terrible! Narrative but its how it panned out

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[OldEast]

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.

Calm down to a frenzy sir!
Brexit much much worse.

[500miles]

I don't see the benefit of getting rid of him right now. We've got some experienced players back again, let's see what he does with them.

[Greencore]

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.

Half his team are injured. Do you understand that or are you just stupid.

Classless post. Stfu and sit back down.

[B.H.F.C]

We made a mistake which simms done well to score from

The first 15 mins (when this board was generally ****ting it and saying we will be bullied etc) we're anything but

We started decently, we were the better side overall and didn't let hearts win the physical battle like they did last week

Particulary 2nd half but the first half was also a 50/50 game hence why the whole panel on the BBC said we actually shaded it in there opiniom

I know that doesn't fit with Maloney is terrible! Narrative but its how it panned out

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The way it panned out was that we got beat. And absolutely nothing else mattered today.

[Sir David Gray]

Not for me.

We were 2-0 down and (as it proved) ultimately out the game after 20 minutes - that's not acceptable.

We completely dominated the second half but couldn't put the ball in the back of the net.

Putting up a fight is the least you expect in any match, never mind a local derby cup semi final. It's all about winning and I'm afraid we're not doing that anywhere nearly enough under Maloney.

His record is 6 wins from 19 matches (only 4 of them against top flight opposition) which is utterly dreadful.

[Allant1981]

Why do you feel it's hard to back Maloney? Am curious as I think it's quite easy to support him in what the longer term vision here is.

Because he has done nothing so far to show that he can improve things, anyone can talk the talk but he needs to get his teams showing that on the park and if anything it has became worse since he was brought in

[Wakeyhibee]

Changed tactics, changed players and changed attitudes, Newell getting sent off changed the game, yes we're still miles short in quality but the fact he had us competing all game today shows he has something. Back him in summer and let's see what he can do, if he's still struggling next season then fair enough. These players have proved over the whole season under 2 managers that they are just not good enough, time to change that.

This all day

[Northernhibee]

The heart of this team finished third last season.

[whiskyhibby]

Honestly, the better side lost. Given our injurys and depending where we finish from now to the end of the season, I'd give him a next season. Hearts done nothing in the second half.

Don't worry they'll get pumped in the final.

Absolutely agree the singing from the Hibs fans after the final whistle in support of the team tells a huge amount about the way the team played, Hearts we’re time wasting for most of the second half

and yes they will get pumped in the final, whichever of the ugly sisters it is

:flag::flag::flag:

[Callum_62]

The way it panned out was that we got beat. And absolutely nothing else mattered today.Again sport isn't black and white

We Lost 2 on a row but it's completely differnet Loses

Last week was unacceptable to lose the way we did

This week while it hurts, you sometimes. Lose at sport while being deserving of more,. It happens

It know that's maybe too pragmatic as it's disappointing but it's the way I see it

If we play like that from now until the seasons end then I'd say he deserves some more time and another transfer window

For the most part the charges he made gave us a much better platform - 1 absolutely worldly goal and 1 belter undone us



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[GreenCastle]

Sorry not for me.

Bit like last seasons loss at Hampden to Hearts.

What else were we expecting after last weeks loss ? If we had played like last week then he should have been sacked at full time.

The players came out fighting but it all feels a little too late.

Lots of huffing and puffing without much quality. Number of games this season we have had decent build up but nothing in final 3rd to show for it. Instead some basic mistakes at the back and clinical Hearts finishing.

Today was about winning the game - not about best fans or the “great effort award”. Winning the game simply.

This team needs rebuilt and with mentality stronger and better quality players and someone who gets performances out of the team regularly.

Inconsistent team selections / suspensions / injuries and odd substitutions have left us bottom 6 and missing out on another great opportunity for a cup final. It all feels very Hecky and I just don’t think we will see us improve to where many think we will.

[Diclonius]

Nah.

Another bizarre team selection, only started playing at 2-0 down and made further bizarre substitutions.

I'm by no means adamant that he go, and if he's given next season then whatever, but if the board sack him I'll probably be happier on balance.

[Aldo]

I honestly don’t know where we go from here?

Stick or twist with Maloney?

We need at least 3 strikers, 2 CH’s a decent winger and that’s before I get to the Midfield!

Not sure I care just now! When does the season end??


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[Haymaker]

I'll back him if he changes the shape, ships out a load of the deadwood and gets Griffiths in the summer.

[J-C]

The heart of this team finished third last season.

The heart of this team are either injured or have been injured a lot this season. Nisbet, Doidfe, Newell, Hanlon, McGinn etc, we lost Boyle and Porteous has had numerous sending offs.

No team would be the same after all that, especially with a poor summer window.

[hhibs]

Clueless fuds, keep it classy mate, jeez 🤡

And yet,so many indications that he has a point,IMHO

[Callum_62]

I'll back him if he changes the shape, ships out a load of the deadwood and gets Griffiths in the summer.Boak.

Daffy should be retired [emoji23]

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[Diclonius]

I'll back him if he changes the shape, ships out a load of the deadwood and gets Cummings in the summer.

Fixed

[Haymaker]

Fixed

Going to be hard getting Cummings back from Oz I think but we should definitely spend the budget trying :agree:

[Just_Jimmy]

Just cos the players aren't good enough doesn't mean we should chuck our whole pay packet on a three legged donkey.

Get him out and bring in someone worth backing.

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[mcfly]

Agree performance was better today until Newall let us down with his stupidity

However it’s results that count. How many games has maloney won? We competed today and still lost.

big problem hibs have coming up is how many season tickets will fans buy under maloney? - everything is more expensive and football is a luxury.

If maloney is serious he has to get rid of Macey, Hanlon, McGinn, Newall,

We need strong players physically and mentally and I don’t see that in this hibs team.

[overdrive]

We lost both derbies. We were a disgrace in one and better today, but we still lost. Losing to Hearts in a semi final again is not acceptable. The mentality at this club needs changed ASAP. Pleased because we got ‘effort’. That should be a given.

Maloney has been a shambles. Cut this loser mentality out.

100 percent this!

[LaMotta]

Clueless fuds, keep it classy mate, jeez 🤡


Classy.


Half his team are injured. Do you understand that or are you just stupid.

Classless post. Stfu and sit back down.

What is classless is getting beaten off Hearts two weeks in a row, culminating in our 4th Hampden humiliation in a row

Your acceptance of that is disasterous for our club.

[Pete]

What is classless is getting beaten off Hearts two weeks in a row, culminating in our 4th Hampden humiliation in a row

Your acceptance of that is disasterous for our club.

Calling our last two defeats 'humiliations' is overdramatic to say the least, especially today where we didn't deserve to lose. Calm down a bit.

[marinello59]

What is classless is getting beaten off Hearts two weeks in a row, culminating in our 4th Hampden humiliation in a row

Your acceptance of that is disasterous for our club.

Today hurt but it was far from a humiliation.
Accusing fellow fans of being the problem only makes sense if you are putting yourself on a pedestal and I’m sure that isn’t your intention.
Peace and love, we all feel the pain today.

[1620]

Don't blame him for today. Although his style of play cost us the first. It's our abysmal form for months that's screwed us.

Injuries are fair enough but have we really looked like a good side just missing a few injured players.

He isn't going to he sacked so we'll need to back him and back him loudly.

For the first time I think I agree with one of your points. His style of play did cost us the first goal. One not for the football purists if we had blootered the ball up the park for Scott to chase they would not have scored.

[SRHibs]

Please explain to me where I mentioned an acceptance of losing to the filth?

If it was ross in charge we would have lost more then 2.

Fact.

Based on what? The only reason we were so attacking is because we were 2-0 down within 20 minutes. Attacking football isn't the norm for Hibs under Maloney.

[Greencore]

Based on what? The only reason we were so attacking is because we were 2-0 down within 20 minutes. Attacking football isn't the norm for Hibs under Maloney.
See last seasons scottish Cup final for a fine example.

Would have set up to sit in under ross and get them on the break, was classic Jack.

[FitbaFolkKen]

See last seasons scottish Cup final for a fine example.

Would have set up to sit in under ross and get them on the break, was classic Jack.

How does that equate to losing by more than two?

[J-C]

What is classless is getting beaten off Hearts two weeks in a row, culminating in our 4th Hampden humiliation in a row

Your acceptance of that is disasterous for our club.


Who says we're accepting it, it's still shi te getting beat off that lot, but the main thing today was we showed more grit and determination and didn't bottle it like we did in the 2nd half last week. The fact remains this bunch of players are below average and the summer recruitment is all to blame for that, blame Ross and Mathie for allowing us to sign permanently injured players like Magennis and Murphy and then to not get cover and extra players in who would strengthen us was shocking, needless to say Both have left the club.

[WhileTheChief..]

One swallow and all that.

We need another 5 performances like that between now and the end of the season, with a few points thrown in, to see him eanr the time to build his own side.

As heartening as the performance was we did still ultimately lose.

Is this all we’re striving for these days?

Previously we were going for 4 or 5 wins in the top 6!!

[timewilltell]

Maloney should have subbed Newall

Was obvious to anyone he would get a second yellow.

Poor management from him.

I’m unconvinced he deserves to stay.

YET another hampden letdown.

Yes, really obvious! 🙄 You're a clown

[Smartie]

The heart of this team finished third last season.

It’s a shame that the heart was generally out injured and we were left with the scrotum and fingernails.

[Frazerbob]

Yes, really obvious! 🙄 You're a clown

It was obvious that he was walking a tightrope after the first booking and 2 or 3 fouls, including a blatant shirt pull that could easily have been another yellow. It was being discussed during half time around me. Pity it didn’t appear to be discussed by our management team.

[J-C]

It was obvious that he was walking a tightrope after the first booking and 2 or 3 fouls, including a blatant shirt pull that could easily have been another yellow. It was being discussed during half time around me. Pity it didn’t appear to be discussed by our management team.


How do you know Maloney didn't say to him at HT to calm and be careful, I've seen players get booked early and then go through the whole game playing well and be nowhere near another booking, it was just pish play by Newell and he let his team mates down big time.

[Stubbsy90+2]

The heart of this team finished third last season.

No it didn’t.

The heart of that team is playing in Saudi Arabia. He was a one man team.

[MWHIBBIES]

No it didn’t.

The heart of that team is playing in Saudi Arabia. He was a one man team.

No, he wasn't. He wasn't even our top scorer. Please stop discrediting last season. It was very good and its a shame we couldn't be there to roar them on. I'd kill for that side and management team now.

[Key West]

Maloney got a lot of things correct today,he can't legislate for us losing goals from our own free kick, a very good 2nd goal and the stupidity of the red card, there was a lot to be pleased about in terms of the performance.
There's still a hell of a lot of work to be done though regardless of who is managing the club.

[Zambernardi1875]

No, he wasn't. He wasn't even our top scorer. Please stop discrediting last season. It was very good and its a shame we couldn't be there to roar them on. I'd kill for that side and management team now.


youd kill for last seasons team and manager? is that what you just said

[Stubbsy90+2]

No, he wasn't. He wasn't even our top scorer. Please stop discrediting last season. It was very good and its a shame we couldn't be there to roar them on. I'd kill for that side and management team now.

Yes, he was.

Who’s discrediting last season? It doesn’t matter how we get to where we got to, we still got there. We were a one man team though. That’s not discrediting it. It’s just the way it is.

[Frazerbob]

How do you know Maloney didn't say to him at HT to calm and be careful, I've seen players get booked early and then go through the whole game playing well and be nowhere near another booking, it was just pish play by Newell and he let his team mates down big time.

If he did, it didn’t work but I agree, Newell let us all down.

[JohnM1875]

I'll back him if we continue playing like that every week.

[JohnM1875]

No, he wasn't. He wasn't even our top scorer. Please stop discrediting last season. It was very good and its a shame we couldn't be there to roar them on. I'd kill for that side and management team now.

We were 100% a one man team with Boyle. Most one man team in the league.

Can't believe you continue to argue otherwise.

[MWHIBBIES]

We were 100% a one man team with Boyle. Most one man team in the league.

Can't believe you continue to argue otherwise.


Yes, he was.

Who’s discrediting last season? It doesn’t matter how we get to where we got to, we still got there. We were a one man team though. That’s not discrediting it. It’s just the way it is.

Why were we not 3rd this season when he left, then?

I mean, he was playing well, you guys seem to think that is all it takes, why weren't we 3rd?

Was Boyle responsible for our most clean sheets since 00/01? Or Did Boyle score the 18 goals for Nisbet?

Don't be ****ing daft guys. Nothing close to a 1 man team.

[May21/05/16]

We should have won but I was proud the players they gave they're all not like last week when I accused them of chucking it but not today

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[Stubbsy90+2]

Why were we not 3rd this season when he left, then?

I mean, he was playing well, you guys seem to think that is all it takes, why weren't we 3rd?

Was Boyle responsible for our most clean sheets since 00/01? Or Did Boyle score the 18 goals for Nisbet?

Don't be ****ing daft guys. Nothing close to a 1 man team.

You’re insistent that we weren’t a one man team. You’re in a small minority who think that way though. We were. Boyle carried this whole team.

[Waxy]

This. Can't believe the amount of clueless fuds still backing Maloney. Its worse than Brexit with people refusing to admit they got it wrong.

Who would you replace Maloney with?
Harry McHoofball?

[MWHIBBIES]

You’re insistent that we weren’t a one man team. You’re in a small minority who think that way though. We were. Boyle carried this whole team.

Why weren't we 3rd? Answer the question. Why, when he scored more goals this season, weren't we 3rd?

Was it perhaps because other players weren't playing as well this season, when our good team, finished 3rd.

Happy to be in the minority if the majority are so daft.

[JohnM1875]

Why weren't we 3rd? Answer the question. Why, when he scored more goals this season, weren't we 3rd?

Was it perhaps because other players weren't playing as well this season, when our good team, finished 3rd.

Happy to be in the minority if the majority are so daft.

What difference does being third make? It's such a bizarre point to make?

For the calandar year of 2021 Boyle almost had more goals than Nisbet, Doidge and Magennis combined.

If you managed to keep Boyle quiet we were ****ed.

[Heisenberg]

No chance we were a one man team last season. Plenty others contributed. This season? Definitely more of a case for it. Boyle seemed to be the only one scoring goals or creating chances for others.

[MWHIBBIES]

What difference does being third make? It's such a bizarre point to make?

For the calandar year of 2021 Boyle almost had more goals than Nisbet, Doidge and Magennis combined.

If you managed to keep Boyle quiet we were ****ed.

There was significantly more to Hibs last season than just boyles goals.

[Smartie]

Why weren't we 3rd? Answer the question. Why, when he scored more goals this season, weren't we 3rd?

Was it perhaps because other players weren't playing as well this season, when our good team, finished 3rd.

Happy to be in the minority if the majority are so daft.

I'm with you.

Boyle was a very important player in the team that finished 3rd, no doubt about it.

But there were many other major contributors to that team's good fortunes - an excellent goalkeeper, a defence that had spells of being particularly miserly at points and then the goals of Doidge and Nisbet.

If any of these bits had performed this season the way they did last, Boyle's departure wouldn't have been felt so acutely. Unfortunately...

[john rossi]

Come on mate 1 win in 14 games is a sackable offence IMO. Will be doing well to keep us from a relegation dogfight

[Hermit Crab]

One semi decent 45 minutes in a game which we still actually lost, and have now also lost thousands in revenue as a result and all of a sudden he has to stay. 1 win in 14 games boys. Let that sink in.

This board is mental.

[loanheadhibby]

One semi decent 45 minutes in a game which we still actually lost, and have now also lost thousands in revenue as a result and all of a sudden he has to stay. 1 win in 14 games boys. Let that sink in.

This board is mental.

100% this. Anyone can play well chasing a game. Good teams/players play well when it’s 0 0.

1 win in 14, bottom 6, 2 derby defeats with 5 goals conceded in about 60 mins of football (spread over 2 games). If that’s not sackable, then dear knows what is.

[Northernhibee]

100% this. Anyone can play well chasing a game. Good teams/players play well when it’s 0 0.

1 win in 14, bottom 6, 2 derby defeats with 5 goals conceded in about 60 mins of football (spread over 2 games). If that’s not sackable, then dear knows what is.

The only real argument I’ve seen is “we can’t keep sacking managers” to which I’d just say “we can, but we can’t keep appointing the wrong manager “.

Every team has injuries, every team has suspensions. He’s been allowed to add several players to the team and we’ve gotten worse.

I’ve seen today be described as some kind of turning point. We lost. We keep losing. He doesn’t learn. He has to go.

[Stubbsy90+2]

100% this. Anyone can play well chasing a game. Good teams/players play well when it’s 0 0.

1 win in 14, bottom 6, 2 derby defeats with 5 goals conceded in about 60 mins of football (spread over 2 games). If that’s not sackable, then dear knows what is.

Anyone can play well chasing a game? :faf:

Aye, the minute you go 2-0 down football is a breeze.

[Heisenberg]

100% this. Anyone can play well chasing a game. Good teams/players play well when it’s 0 0.

1 win in 14, bottom 6, 2 derby defeats with 5 goals conceded in about 60 mins of football (spread over 2 games). If that’s not sackable, then dear knows what is.

Not sure anyone can defend that record to be fair. It’s utterly dreadful.

[1620]

The
I'll back him if we continue playing like that every week.

I will only back him if he keeps us in the Premier Division. Another 5 performances like today’s should gather sufficient points to ensure that. If he takes us down there is no way I could support his retention as manager. (I wouldn’t be sorry to see Caldwell go. I have no idea what contribution he makes).

[john rossi]

Come on mate 1 win in 14 games is a sackable offence IMO. Will be doing well to keep us from a relegation dogfight

[buktapurple79]

Maloney got a lot of things correct today,he can't legislate for us losing goals from our own free kick, a very good 2nd goal and the stupidity of the red card, there was a lot to be pleased about in terms of the performance.
There's still a hell of a lot of work to be done though regardless of who is managing the club.

That’s where I’m at. No more chopping and changing, Maloney needs time. Loads of Yams would have had Nielsen gone after the Brora game. Some stability please. Can’t fault the effort yesterday and came away from Hamden heid held high. Support was amazing and they had to employ every dirt, sneaky time wasting trick in the book to hang on.

[PompeyHibs]

100% sack him
Lost the fans
Best twice from Heartsvin Q1 weei
Terrible appointment
His football cost us 1st goal
Sack him now or look at 7k season tickets at bedt
Embarrassment os a manager imo

[Jones28]

100% sack him
Lost the fans
Best twice from Heartsvin Q1 weei
Terrible appointment
His football cost us 1st goal
Sack him now or look at 7k season tickets at bedt
Embarrassment os a manager imo

Has somebody re arranged all the letters on your keyboard?

[flash]

100% sack him
Lost the fans
Best twice from Heartsvin Q1 weei
Terrible appointment
His football cost us 1st goal
Sack him now or look at 7k season tickets at bedt
Embarrassment os a manager imo

Just take a few decent signings and the season tickets will sell just fine.

[B.H.F.C]

Just take a few decent signings and the season tickets will sell just fine.

I’m not so sure about the season tickets. Without something pretty significant happening (not even sure what) we’re looking at a pretty sizeable drop IMO.

[timewilltell]

The only real argument I’ve seen is “we can’t keep sacking managers” to which I’d just say “we can, but we can’t keep appointing the wrong manager “.

Every team has injuries, every team has suspensions. He’s been allowed to add several players to the team and we’ve gotten worse.

I’ve seen today be described as some kind of turning point. We lost. We keep losing. He doesn’t learn. He has to go.

Who in your opinion would be the "right" manager?

[WhileTheChief..]

Just take a few decent signings and the season tickets will sell just fine.

Hows that gone the last few transfer windows?!

it’s been our biggest failing. Even I can cut SM some slack for our woeful performance when it comes to signings.

It used to be that we could get excited about player A or B coming in to strengthen us.

Now we sign players nobody has heard of, stick them in the mythical B team, then never hear anything more about them!

I have zero faith that this summer will be any better than the last 2. Our chief exec is clueless.

[Northernhibee]

Who in your opinion would be the "right" manager?

That’s not my job to decide.

Someone who has a better record than Terry Butcher first of all.

Someone who understands you can only piss with the cock you’ve got and makes the fullest of what they have as opposed to asking players to do things they’re not capable or comfortable doing.

Someone who can make a sensible sub. Someone who has an eye for a player

Someone with a modicum of personality and authority.

Someone with the basics, simply put.

[Lago]

Hows that gone the last few transfer windows?!

it’s been our biggest failing. Even I can cut SM some slack for our woeful performance when it comes to signings.

It used to be that we could get excited about player A or B coming in to strengthen us.

Now we sign players nobody has heard of, stick them in the mythical B team, then never hear anything more about them!

I have zero faith that this summer will be any better than the last 2. Our chief exec is clueless.
When he was appointed he was considered a bit of a scoop by many on here if my memory is correct.

[WhileTheChief..]

When he was appointed he was considered a bit of a scoop by many on here if my memory is correct.

Mental eh. Seems like some still do!

If he turned up at any other club in Scotland, not one of us would have thought 'damn, we missed the boat there, shoulda gone for Maloney'.

I'd love to know that BKs thinking was. He's never really explained why he went for SM and didn't interview several targets.

I assumed that when he binned JR it was because he had someone pretty special lined up.

[ScottB]

When he was appointed he was considered a bit of a scoop by many on here if my memory is correct.

He seemed a good idea at the time, most certainly, and fits the profile of the sort of hire I like to see, and has worked well for us in the past; ex player, looking to move from coaching into management, ambitious etc. that describes Maloney just as it did Stubbs, Collins and Mowbray.

But then just seeming like a good idea, or talking a good game, doesn’t mean it’ll work out.

[Daily Hibs]

Mental eh. Seems like some still do!

If he turned up at any other club in Scotland, not one of us would have thought 'damn, we missed the boat there, shoulda gone for Maloney'.

I'd love to know that BKs thinking was. He's never really explained why he went for SM and didn't interview several targets.

I assumed that when he binned JR it was because he had someone pretty special lined up.
Our version of Cathro.

Some interview he done on the radio after the game , he is way out his depth.

We have allowed a project to screw up what might have been a decent season. Guy is someone trying to be a football manager.

[blackpoolhibs]

Who says we're accepting it, it's still shi te getting beat off that lot, but the main thing today was we showed more grit and determination and didn't bottle it like we did in the 2nd half last week. The fact remains this bunch of players are below average and the summer recruitment is all to blame for that, blame Ross and Mathie for allowing us to sign permanently injured players like Magennis and Murphy and then to not get cover and extra players in who would strengthen us was shocking, needless to say Both have left the club.

How did our January window go JC, perhaps you might ba able to answer that in 2 or 3 years time, but when we needed quality, when we needed some men instead of boys for THIS season, we had a manager who *****ed the budget on a load of kids.

That said to me maloney accepted we were writing this season off.

[Since452]

Mental eh. Seems like some still do!

If he turned up at any other club in Scotland, not one of us would have thought 'damn, we missed the boat there, shoulda gone for Maloney'.

I'd love to know that BKs thinking was. He's never really explained why he went for SM and didn't interview several targets.

I assumed that when he binned JR it was because he had someone pretty special lined up.

We'll never know of course but I'd love to know who did actually apply for the job or who expressed an interest. There surely would have been some good names.

[marinello59]

We'll never know of course but I'd love to know who did actually apply for the job or who expressed an interest. There surely would have been some good names.

I did. :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

He seemed a good idea at the time, most certainly, and fits the profile of the sort of hire I like to see, and has worked well for us in the past; ex player, looking to move from coaching into management, ambitious etc. that describes Maloney just as it did Stubbs, Collins and Mowbray.

But then just seeming like a good idea, or talking a good game, doesn’t mean it’ll work out.

It never seemed like a good idea. Overhauling playstyle mid season is pretty much always a disaster.

[Not So Young]

I myself probably just about lean towards a change but would like to see over the next few games SM build momentum with performances like today because we'll win more than we'll lose playing like that


Agree with this

If the passion of yesterday is on display for the remaining games he deserves a chance if yesterday was a one off he should go

[Heisenberg]

Agree with this

If the passion of yesterday is on display for the remaining games he deserves a chance if yesterday was a one off he should go

I’m not sure we’ve been anywhere near that level of effort and commitment since he arrived, which is my worry. Don’t see us playing to that level against St Mirren.

[J-C]

How did our January window go JC, perhaps you might ba able to answer that in 2 or 3 years time, but when we needed quality, when we needed some men instead of boys for THIS season, we had a manager who *****ed the budget on a load of kids.

That said to me maloney accepted we were writing this season off.


You still harping on about kids in January, give it a friggin rest it's boring as hell. It's well known we are recruiting players of a certain age to be ready for next season, a B team which will play friendlies against teams from down south, that process started in January.

January was a patch up job to keep us ticking over till the summer. Magennis was coming back to fitness but he's made of straw and Doidge has toiled since his injury and the other injuries are well known. We keep getting told that these players got us third, that may well be but in reality they are mainly gash and mid table is where they are. I don't think it would make a jot of a difference what shape we played, Ross couldn't get a song out of them and Maloney can't either.

[WhileTheChief..]

I did. :greengrin

If you were offered the gig now, would you take it? Even just till the end of the season?

Worth a bash.

[Hermit Crab]

Was the first yellow deserved?


Aye, cynical, late and from behind. Stick on yellow, really stupid from Newell as there was a covering player.

[Hermit Crab]

100% this. Anyone can play well chasing a game. Good teams/players play well when it’s 0 0.

1 win in 14, bottom 6, 2 derby defeats with 5 goals conceded in about 60 mins of football (spread over 2 games). If that’s not sackable, then dear knows what is.




Thats pure relegation and sacking form. Watch this space lads. 11th place is not beyond us.

[JohnM1875]

Thats pure relegation and sacking form. Watch this space lads. 11th place is not beyond us.

If we play with the same desire and pace as we did yesterday no chance of that. I'd say we get 9 out of 15 points.

Suppose it's down to the players and manager to make sure we do play with the same effort. If not can see Maloney getting sacked.

[jacomo]

Did everything I asked. Heart and fight.


You should have asked for a win.

At the end of the day, a team that can’t score goals isn’t very good. And we can’t score goals. Cadden did well yesterday to take that chance but we barely create anything.

I’m not calling for Maloney to go because we’ve taken a big gamble and I guess it needs more time to see if it pays off. But jeez… the signs aren’t good.

[Since452]

You should have asked for a win.

At the end of the day, a team that can’t score goals isn’t very good. And we can’t score goals. Cadden did well yesterday to take that chance but we barely create anything.

I’m not calling for Maloney to go because we’ve taken a big gamble and I guess it needs more time to see if it pays off. But jeez… the signs aren’t good.

I expected us to be well beaten to be honest mate. I wanted to see something from us and I did. Small crumb of comfort I guess as ultimately it was another defeat. Hearts found a way to win and we didn't. The buck always stops with the manager and after the last two results he's a dead man walking.

[Mrimbetween]

Thing is they had a few out as well and had to mix and match later in the game and got so lucky thats fitbaw

Thought SM did well in his after match interviews, but still stank of desperation at times the ones prior were a joke

Hopefully the next few games allow him some slack but if not, then i think he's toast

[gazzag70]

I was encouraged by the effort yesterday as it was a huge upturn from what we had seen before. The lack of cutting edge is the real concern, we all want to see a Hibs team that is capable of scoring goals.
I agree we can’t keep changing managers but we need to see a team that can score goals, that’s what the game is all about at the end of the day. All this passing the ball about the back four and over playing it is for better players.
We have to have a manager that can use the players to the best of their abilities and score more goals. Boyle was papering over cracks for years

[Stubbsy90+2]

How did our January window go JC, perhaps you might ba able to answer that in 2 or 3 years time, but when we needed quality, when we needed some men instead of boys for THIS season, we had a manager who *****ed the budget on a load of kids.

That said to me maloney accepted we were writing this season off.

Who are you even blaming here? :confused: what a load of absolute ****ing *****.

[Silky]

That’s not my job to decide.

Someone who has a better record than Terry Butcher first of all.

Someone who understands you can only piss with the cock you’ve got and makes the fullest of what they have as opposed to asking players to do things they’re not capable or comfortable doing.

Someone who can make a sensible sub. Someone who has an eye for a player

Someone with a modicum of personality and authority.

Someone with the basics, simply put.

That sounds very much like Maloney's predecessor!!

[Jones28]

Our version of Cathro.

Some interview he done on the radio after the game , he is way out his depth.

We have allowed a project to screw up what might have been a decent season. Guy is someone trying to be a football manager.

Can you give it a rest?

[greenlex]

If he doesn’t have us seventh at 3pm on the final day of the season he needs to go. If he can’t do that then I can’t see what he brings. He will be a poor experiment that hasn’t worked at all. Be better off with a new man in straight away and back him.

[bigwheel]

If he doesn’t have us seventh at 3pm on the final day of the season he needs to go. If he can’t do that then I can’t see what he brings. He will be a poor experiment that hasn’t worked at all. Be better off with a new man in straight away and back him.

There are four teams within two points of each other - are you really saying that if over five games, for some reason or another, one of them ends above us - he should go ?

I’d say if we see a few wins and a decent plan for next season - then the board should back him ….and I say that far from convinced about him - but if we sack one of our best managers in decades , then we can give his successor a decent run at it …

They’ll likely have made up their mind either way already I suspect .

[Lago]

:top marks
You still harping on about kids in January, give it a friggin rest it's boring as hell. It's well known we are recruiting players of a certain age to be ready for next season, a B team which will play friendlies against teams from down south, that process started in January.

January was a patch up job to keep us ticking over till the summer. Magennis was coming back to fitness but he's made of straw and Doidge has toiled since his injury and the other injuries are well known. We keep getting told that these players got us third, that may well be but in reality they are mainly gash and mid table is where they are. I don't think it would make a jot of a difference what shape we played, Ross couldn't get a song out of them and Maloney can't either.

[greenlex]

There are four teams within two points of each other - are you really saying that if over five games, for some reason or another, one of them ends above us - he should go ?

I’d say if we see a few wins and a decent plan for next season - then the board should back him ….and I say that far from convinced about him - but if we sack one of our best managers in decades , then we can give his successor a decent run at it …

They’ll likely have made up their mind either way already I suspect .
Yes. He needs to show now under arguably less pressure he has what it takes. Up till now there’s been little sign he has it. Dundee are as good as gone and St Johnstone are as good as play off fodder. The other three will take points off both of them and each other. It’s five free hits and as good a “trial” for the job as there is with little pressure. We should be better than every other team in that bottom six by quite a bit. It’s time to step up and show us. If the owner isn’t thinking the same then he should be.

[B.H.F.C]

Yes. He needs to show now under arguably less pressure he has what it takes. Up till now there’s been little sign he has it. Dundee are as good as gone and St Johnstone are as good as play off fodder. The other three will take points off both of them and each other. It’s five free hits and as good a “trial” for the job as there is with little pressure. We should be better than every other team in that bottom six by quite a bit. It’s time to step up and show us. If the owner isn’t thinking the same then he should be.

My gut feeling is that they’ll be backing him as it stands. I agree these five games are important for him though because there is potential for that to change if they don’t go well.

[ThisIsTheYear]

I’d love him to prove me wrong but can’t see how he turns this around. Big risk to stick with him into new season. We can’t afford another season off the pace for 3rd. Us and Aberdeen need to get their act together. A couple of seasons of Hearts getting into Europe and the financial gulf could really start to show