Hearts are not a bad team

[CJHibby]

When will our fans wisen up to this? That current Hearts team are a good team..but not unbeatable. We need to first compete and then impose our game on them. Gordon is having some season but the others defensively aren't watertight. We need to emulate our first 20 minutes showing at Tynecastle over longer. If Porteous doesn't do anything stupid we will be much better at the back and hopefully Maloney sees sense and plays Doig at lwb to carry more of a threat going forward. A more positive approach may just be enough..here's hoping 🙏

[The Spaceman]

I agree. They are hardly world beaters, but are a decent enough unit and the likes of McKay and Boyce are very handy.

Unfortunately this season has proven we are some way off them, although I do genuinely believe our horrendous luck on the injuries front has accounted for a large proportion of the gap. If you had both teams' starting 11 and subs on day 1 of the season the whole way through, honestly think we would be sitting neck and neck. But that isn't football and we haven't managed our injury situation well (particularly the January transfer window).

[Smartie]

They're like our team of last season - decent enough, certainly deserving of their third place finish but miles off the finished article and not without weaknesses.

Hopefully they make as much of a horse's arse of building on this season as we did of building on last season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I agree. They are hardly world beaters, but are a decent enough unit and the likes of McKay and Boyce are very handy.

Unfortunately this season has proven we are some way off them, although I do genuinely believe our horrendous luck on the injuries front has accounted for a large proportion of the gap. If you had both teams' starting 11 and subs on day 1 of the season the whole way through, honestly think we would be sitting neck and neck. But that isn't football and we haven't managed our injury situation well (particularly the January transfer window).

Whether he would have came or not is another story but you’ve to laugh at Hibs fans who turned their nose up at McKay.

He would have improved us massively imo.

[CL0762]

They’re not the Harlem globetrotters like made out to be by their support and media but what they are, is a hard working solid unit from back to front.

Halkett must’ve been rubbing his hands with joy seeing Melkersen on the Hibs team sheet.

The thing they have, is they do not stop and (especially against us) they scrap and claw and fight for absolutely everything.

Even haring and Halliday in the middle, 2 players bereft of any pace and really not the most mobile they covered every single blade of grass and that stings the most, they wanted it more and it showed.

[One Day Soon]

Their players are generally better than ours pound for pound and they are playing to their system much better than we are.

Our system might be better than their if we had the players capable of playing it, but we don't.

We still have most of the weaknesses we failed to address in JR's last window, not least up front.

They have a better balance of youth, experience, confidence, leadership, a system they're capable of playing and - critically - a consistent determination to treat every game against us as a game more important than any other.

Having said that it is a cup semi-final and a derby so anything can happen. However I think there are only two paths ahead of us at the moment, a long haul with Maloney to get us the squad capable of playing his style or a short haul with Maloney where he's turfed by either relegation or a bad start next season.

[One Day Soon]

Whether he would have came or not is another story but you’ve to laugh at Hibs fans who turned their nose up at McKay.

He would have improved us massively imo.

Farquaad can definitely play.

[where'stheslope]

I agree. They are hardly world beaters, but are a decent enough unit and the likes of McKay and Boyce are very handy.

Unfortunately this season has proven we are some way off them, although I do genuinely believe our horrendous luck on the injuries front has accounted for a large proportion of the gap. If you had both teams' starting 11 and subs on day 1 of the season the whole way through, honestly think we would be sitting neck and neck. But that isn't football and we haven't managed our injury situation well (particularly the January transfer window).
Injuries are unfortunately part of football, and they had at least 3 main players missing last week.
I know we are running on empty at the moment, but with a bit of luck and players lifting themselves off the floor, who knows what could happen next weekend!!!

[Bobby's Cinema]

It's not a particularly good Hearts team. The massive difference is under Stubbs/ Lennon we always knew going into games we'd stand up and compete. This group of players do not have the same DNA about them. We have lost that sense now altogether - and that's a brutal reality.

Compare Marv in his prime relishing the challenge to our middle of the park Saturday

[Vault Boy]

Experienced and qualified people in key roles made their transition to the top flight a successful one.

They recruited Joe Savage whilst we handed a similar, vital role to Ron's unqualified son. It's absolutely no wonder that it's only taken one season for them to be miles ahead of us.

[Since452]

Agree. Folk trying to say they aren't much better than us are just trying to make themselves feel better. They are much better than us as the league table proves. We are in danger of a skelping on Saturday unless we massively up our game.

[Pretty Boy]

There was always a risk that when Hearts got the right people in the right positions that they could pull themselves clear of the rest. The 'benefactor' along with the FoH money means they are a bit ahead of the rest of the 'other 10' when it comes to wages. Not to the extent that they can challenge the Glasgow 2 but enough that, over the course of the season, a bit more depth and experience sees them ahead of us, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd.

That was a decent enough Hearts team on Saturday. Far from brilliant but when they got to grips with us and changed it up they really played us off the park, when the 3rd went in I was fearing the worst. It wasn't the easily derided hoofball either, they played some decent stuff (as did we early doors btw).

Ultimately though there is no reason why Hearts should be so far ahead of us over the course of a season. With a bit self reflection Hibs really need to accept that we are not maximising our resources to be the best we can be, do that and we'll be a hell of a lot closer to a good but not great Hearts team next year.

[Greenwich_Hibby]

They know their strengths, they play to them and are effective. Clearly well coached.

[TheHibernator]

Whether he would have came or not is another story but you’ve to laugh at Hibs fans who turned their nose up at McKay.

He would have improved us massively imo.

Said this at the time, the amount of posters labelling him ***** on here as if he wouldn’t get a game in this team, would’ve probably gotten injured anyway

[TheHibernator]

There was always a risk that when Hearts got the right people in the right positions that they could pull themselves clear of the rest. The 'benefactor' along with the FoH money means they are a bit ahead of the rest of the 'other 10' when it comes to wages. Not to the extent that they can challenge the Glasgow 2 but enough that, over the course of the season, a bit more depth and experience sees them ahead of us, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd.

That was a decent enough Hearts team on Saturday. Far from brilliant but when they got to grips with us and changed it up they really played us off the park, when the 3rd went in I was fearing the worst. It wasn't the easily derided hoofball either, they played some decent stuff (as did we early doors btw).

Ultimately though there is no reason why Hearts should be so far ahead of us over the course of a season. With a bit self reflection Hibs really need to accept that we are not maximising our resources to be the best we can be, do that and we'll be a hell of a lot closer to a good but not great Hearts team next year.

Not maximising resources is putting it lightly I think, our recruitment has been very poor and has been for a while.

[Bostonhibby]

Tailor made for 3rd or thereabouts in Scottish football, tend to be managed by the sort of guy whose career pinnacle is beating Hibs, and to be fair more often than not they're good at it.
Frequently physical side, direct, and good at playing the sly serial fouling tactic. Again tailored to win more than they lose in Scotland, not really what I like to see but the defending well and winning part is deservedly keeping them where they are for the moment.

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[Steve20]

When will our fans wisen up to this? That current Hearts team are a good team..but not unbeatable. We need to first compete and then impose our game on them. Gordon is having some season but the others defensively aren't watertight. We need to emulate our first 20 minutes showing at Tynecastle over longer. If Porteous doesn't do anything stupid we will be much better at the back and hopefully Maloney sees sense and plays Doig at lwb to carry more of a threat going forward. A more positive approach may just be enough..here's hoping 🙏

No, I think it's our fans that treat them like they're something special that need to wise up. They're average at best and the fact they comfortably beat us shows how awful this group we have is.

If we had people in charge of Hibs that had the first idea on how to build a football team, we would have built on 3rd place but we didn't.

[sleeping giant]

Hearts are great eh

[GRA]

They are a decent team, having 3rd place sewn up before the split proves that, but us having a weak mentality that collapses after conceding certainly aids that.

But a one off game means anything can happen. They've lost to Dundee @ home and we've beaten Rangers in Glasgow this season. Certainly beatable if we put up a bit of fight.

[wookie70]

In the context of this season they are the 3rd best team. In the context of the last decade I don't think that team finishes third any other season. The league is very poor this year and they are just better than all the dross below them.

[Rondon]

They’re a bunch of tramps though so fk them

[SHODAN]

When will our fans wisen up to this? That current Hearts team are a good team..but not unbeatable. We need to first compete and then impose our game on them. Gordon is having some season but the others defensively aren't watertight. We need to emulate our first 20 minutes showing at Tynecastle over longer. If Porteous doesn't do anything stupid we will be much better at the back and hopefully Maloney sees sense and plays Doig at lwb to carry more of a threat going forward. A more positive approach may just be enough..here's hoping ��

The tribalism and hyperpartisanism of football means we will never admit our opponents are good, only that we are bad. Lost cause mate.

[Flanny boy]

Strange old thread this one imho of course

[jacomo]

They know their strengths, they play to them and are effective. Clearly well coached.


This is the lesson for us here.

[jacomo]

Hearts are great eh


They are better than us sadly and unforgivably, but feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel better.

[Stuart93]

Experienced and qualified people in key roles made their transition to the top flight a successful one.

They recruited Joe Savage whilst we handed a similar, vital role to Ron's unqualified son. It's absolutely no wonder that it's only taken one season for them to be miles ahead of us.

Madness how overlooked this is. We should be demanding answers as to what the owner’s son done to deserve that position

[Libby Hibby]

Fu@£ the Hertz

[California-Hibs]

They're exactly us of last season. And not just because we also finished 3rd, but as has been mentioned by another poster, they aren't the finished article by a long stretch and have some very average players, but they have enough of a sprinkle or decent players that has seen a level of consistency, just like us last season.

I still retain this season would have looked very different if our unfortunate injury crisis that has stretched near on the course of the entire season, had eased and not been the case. Also losing Boyle being key aswel.

Doidge post injury/Covid, McGennis, McGinn, Hanlon, Nesbit. Then throw in Michell, Clarke, Porteous and his bans, it all adds up to making you think how different it could have been. Heck, beat United last week instead of drawing when we dominated the 2nd half and missed big chances and with those 2 extra points we'd be sitting here right now after getting beat at the weekend and we'd still be in the top 6.

Its been a very strange season indeed.

Hearts are no world beaters and have been fortunate with injuries and us and Aberdeen being so bad. Surely folk seen enough in the 2 stalemate derbies this season and first 20 minutes on Saturday to know that they aren't a team that strike big fear.

[Hibernia&Alba]

They are definitely better than us right now, as the league table shows. But it's the SPL, where only the big two are miles better than the rest, meaning on any given day we can all beat each other. Organisation and effort are more important than technical brilliance in Scottish football. Hearts are favourites, but there is no inevitability about the result; they are hardly a team of great players.

Work like Trojans and let's see who prevails.

[MWHIBBIES]

Madness how overlooked this is. We should be demanding answers as to what the owner’s son done to deserve that position

Yep. Red flags have been appearing with Ron for a while. We'll probably start next season with a few wins and everyone will forget.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Madness how overlooked this is. We should be demanding answers as to what the owner’s son done to deserve that position

True, but what can we do? At the end of the day, the guy who owns the club can appoint whoever he wants. We can raise objections, but that's about it.

[KeithTheHibby]

They’ve got threats all over the park. Players who can create and score goals. We’ve got next to nothing. That showed on Saturday.

[Stuart93]

True, but what can we do? At the end of the day, the guy who owns the club can appoint whoever he wants. We can raise objections, but that's about it.

It’s laughable.

If hearts done something like that we’d be getting our kill at them. Romanov-esque

[Bostonhibby]

Experienced and qualified people in key roles made their transition to the top flight a successful one.

They recruited Joe Savage whilst we handed a similar, vital role to Ron's unqualified son. It's absolutely no wonder that it's only taken one season for them to be miles ahead of us.I remember thinking how funny, symbolic, cardiganish it was when they appointed the golf guy as their chief executive [emoji849]

Still do though.

They're all f ing polyester or corduroy strides and blazers that don't fit.

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[Scotty Leither]

I remember thinking how funny, symbolic, cardiganish it was when they appointed the golf guy as their chief executive [emoji849]

Still do though.

They're all f ing polyester or corduroy strides and blazers that don't fit.

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Ermm we've got a golf guy as well - Archie Paton is his name I believe. We've also got the remnants of the old Board kicking around the club. I'll wager Kensell and Gordon maybe listen to them a bit more than they do us poor saps who've forgotten more about the Hibs than they know.

[Bostonhibby]

Ermm we've got a golf guy as well - Archie Paton is his name I believe. We've also got the remnants of the old Board kicking around the club. I'll wager Kensell and Gordon maybe listen to them a bit more than they do us poor saps who've forgotten more about the Hibs than they know.

Yeah I knew, I just think our one is bound to be more stylish[emoji6]

Asides from our very own KP, I can honestly say there's not really anyone involved in the club that I'm comfortable with at the moment, maybe just a sign of recent times.

Bring back Petrie.[emoji16]


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Months ago the thing I said was most noticeable about Hearts was that when they got the ball in and around the box they had half their bloody team sniffing around within 30 yards of goal. Contrast that with us and a midfield that barely gets near the box ... that's why Hearts are a far more dangerous outfit than us, they can score from anywhere within 25 yards of goal and from a number of players.

Even before Boyle left we had absolutely nothing coming from midfield to threaten the opposition, what made JDH's two goals recently so remarkable wasn't so much that bothe were well taken, but that the Hibs midfield so rarely registers on the score sheet.

Hearts move the ball forward quickly and directly, and I hate to say it without hoofing it up the park .... it's quick and effective and the exact opposite of the 5 to 10 passes to reach the half way line we are playing. In fact when we chased the win against Dundee United in the game at Easter Road recently, in the second half we were far more like Hearts than Maloney's Hibs, the ball was played directly through the midfield and out wide at speed, players took the ball in the middle of the park and turned with it to run at them, as a result we pretty well dominated the second half and were unlucky not to win.

The same can be said of the second half of the game we lost 1 -3 to Celtic at ER and the last 15 to 20 minutes of the League cup final. When Hibs got desperate ditched the cautious approach under Ross, the cautious approach in the LC final with Gray as manager or the 7 odd passes in our own half 'style' under Maloney and simply went for it we were actually a far better team, made chances and had the opposition on the back foot ... on two occasions that opposition was Celtic and we had them rocking, I know I was bloody there. The other thing is that all of this happened in the latter stages of games, there was no question that the players weren't fit enough to up their game after 45 minutes or an hour of play.

That's what we need to do from the off next Saturday ... ditch the tippy tappy pish and play the ball quickly into the middle or out wide and just go at them .... I've seen with my own eyes how effective Hibs can be doing that, without Martin Boyle in the team, and if we can keep that going for 70 odd minutes we can win.

[I'm Spartacus]

What changed in about the 20th minute? I'm not tactically aware enough to know how the shift happened, but it did. If we can make that first 20 minutes last 90.

[Spike Mandela]

They have more goal scorers than us. Defensively, even with Gordon, there’s nothing between us but we just aren’t scoring enough goals.

Keep Hearts to no goals on Saturday we have a chance, but if they score, we will be struggling.

[The Modfather]

Andy Halliday has scored 2 more goals this season (6) than the combined total of Newell, JDH & Campbell & half a season of Gogic and Hallberg (4).

Andy Halliday!

[Scotty Leither]

Yeah I knew, I just think our one is bound to be more stylish[emoji6]

Asides from our very own KP, I can honestly say there's not really anyone involved in the club that I'm comfortable with at the moment, maybe just a sign of recent times.

Bring back Petrie.[emoji16]


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I'll pass on bringing back Petrie, and I daresay our golf gadgie cuts a better dash than theirs sartorially, but a quick swatch at our club directory currently reveals we have TWELVE directors, 31 football staff which includes Gordon's laddie as Head of Recruitment, Calvin Charlton whose title is: "Head of Performance and Recruitment Analysis" (presumably he "analyses" the team performances and the recruitment?), then there's a guy called Luke Griffin, who's styled as "Recruitment Analyst".

The 31 football staff also include 4 people who are tasked with "player care".

Is it just me or are we top heavy with suits and administrators, and light on decent players???

[sleeping giant]

They are better than us sadly and unforgivably, but feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel better.

Pretending otherwise ? Makes me feel better ?
Theres a lot of assumption going on in your post 😂

I was just joining in with the strange jambo love in.

You crack on though.

[Bostonhibby]

I'll pass on bringing back Petrie, and I daresay our golf gadgie cuts a better dash than theirs sartorially, but a quick swatch at our club directory currently reveals we have TWELVE directors, 31 football staff which includes Gordon's laddie as Head of Recruitment, Calvin Charlton whose title is: "Head of Performance and Recruitment Analysis" (presumably he "analyses" the team performances and the recruitment?), then there's a guy called Luke Griffin, who's styled as "Recruitment Analyst".

The 31 football staff also include 4 people who are tasked with "player care".

Is it just me or are we top heavy with suits and administrators, and light on decent players???Definitely feels less like a football on the pitch driven business than I can remember in a while, but what do I know, a simple fan[emoji16].



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[wookie70]

Months ago the thing I said was most noticeable about Hearts was that when they got the ball in and around the box they had half their bloody team sniffing around within 30 yards of goal. Contrast that with us and a midfield that barely gets near the box ... that's why Hearts are a far more dangerous outfit than us, they can score from anywhere within 25 yards of goal and from a number of players.

Even before Boyle left we had absolutely nothing coming from midfield to threaten the opposition, what made JDH's two goals recently so remarkable wasn't so much that bothe were well taken, but that the Hibs midfield so rarely registers on the score sheet.

Hearts move the ball forward quickly and directly, and I hate to say it without hoofing it up the park .... it's quick and effective and the exact opposite of the 5 to 10 passes to reach the half way line we are playing. In fact when we chased the win against Dundee United in the game at Easter Road recently, in the second half we were far more like Hearts than Maloney's Hibs, the ball was played directly through the midfield and out wide at speed, players took the ball in the middle of the park and turned with it to run at them, as a result we pretty well dominated the second half and were unlucky not to win.

The same can be said of the second half of the game we lost 1 -3 to Celtic at ER and the last 15 to 20 minutes of the League cup final. When Hibs got desperate ditched the cautious approach under Ross, the cautious approach in the LC final with Gray as manager or the 7 odd passes in our own half 'style' under Maloney and simply went for it we were actually a far better team, made chances and had the opposition on the back foot ... on two occasions that opposition was Celtic and we had them rocking, I know I was bloody there. The other thing is that all of this happened in the latter stages of games, there was no question that the players weren't fit enough to up their game after 45 minutes or an hour of play.

That's what we need to do from the off next Saturday ... ditch the tippy tappy pish and play the ball quickly into the middle or out wide and just go at them .... I've seen with my own eyes how effective Hibs can be doing that, without Martin Boyle in the team, and if we can keep that going for 70 odd minutes we can win.

I agree with most of that. Hearts get men in the danger areas and get a cross or shot in when the opportunity presents itself. They get into the oppositions half as quickly as they can and no longer play hoofball. I'd far rather watch their style of football than ours.
The Dundee Utd game you mention was very noticeable for every Hibs midfielder getting the ball on the half turn and moving with it forward or moving the ball forward. As a consequence we were decent to watch and what's more the players looked like they had the ability to play that way. Same against Celtic and against Hearts. I don't think the players we have are as bad as many make out(James Scott excepted) but there is something wrong. It is either they are too scared to take the chance to be positive because of the reaction of the manager, recent interviews have seen him critical of everyone barring himself, or they are so confused about their role that by the time they receive the ball it isn't a natural touch and they are thinking rather than doing.
That is the only positive I can see, we have proven there are players and a team who are decent and who can play well late into games. Why then can this manager make them look clueless and devoid of energy.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree with most of that. Hearts get men in the danger areas and get a cross or shot in when the opportunity presents itself. They get into the oppositions half as quickly as they can and no longer play hoofball. I'd far rather watch their style of football than ours.
The Dundee Utd game you mention was very noticeable for every Hibs midfielder getting the ball on the half turn and moving with it forward or moving the ball forward. As a consequence we were decent to watch and what's more the players looked like they had the ability to play that way. Same against Celtic and against Hearts. I don't think the players we have are as bad as many make out(James Scott excepted) but there is something wrong. It is either they are too scared to take the chance to be positive because of the reaction of the manager, recent interviews have seen him critical of everyone barring himself, or they are so confused about their role that by the time they receive the ball it isn't a natural touch and they are thinking rather than doing.
That is the only positive I can see, we have proven there are players and a team who are decent and who can play well late into games. Why then can this manager make them look clueless and devoid of energy.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it mate. That was the thing about it, in the games I mentioned Hibs players were prepared to take the ball turn with it and take it forward, it enabled other players to look for space and try to get forward in support and as a result we looked a far better team.

As you allude to it's almost as if in the parts of games where they did play that way they had thrown the manager's instructions to the wind and just decided to go for it the best way they could.

[Turkish Green]

The first 20 min on Saturday is as good as we will get. The problem is sustaining it up to HT without conceding a goal. The Yams second half is what to expect if we loose inertia, which is likely.

Score early and do not give them the ball, which will be difficult as McKay and Boyce are better players than we have and in goal Gordon is worth at ;east one goal to them. But we start at 0-0 and who knows what will happen on the day.

[JimBHibees]

The first 20 min on Saturday is as good as we will get. The problem is sustaining it up to HT without conceding a goal. The Yams second half is what to expect if we loose inertia, which is likely.

Score early and do not give them the ball, which will be difficult as McKay and Boyce are better players than we have and in goal Gordon is worth at ;east one goal to them. But we start at 0-0 and who knows what will happen on the day.

Boyce and Mackay are only better if given space

[I'm Spartacus]

Boyce and Mackay are only better if given space

Ok so we man mark them for 90 minutes. What then happens to the man mountain Simms? The only reason that wee dink never went in was down to a last ditch shoulder.

We will create chances, to win the game we will need to convert 4. 12th December 2020 was the last time we scored 4 against a Premier League side (Hamilton).

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Everything surrounding Hearts just now is largely positive. In a way similar to us between 2016-2018

Key players extending contracts, playing good football, international recognition and a massive one is the the club interacting and engaging the support. When we won the cup the rapport between the club and fanbase was incredible, and they have similar at the moment

Doesn't make them unbeatable of course and it wont last but they're riding a wave just now. But hopefully on Saturday we'll burst their wee bubble

[B.H.F.C]

**** the Hearts.