Hibs to Support VAR

[vercol36]

Sorry if mentioned elsewhere, but first time I've seen it - Hibs are to formally support VAR adoption, by voting for it on 19 April

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-make-first-public-var-26635296

[SHODAN]

A step in the right direction, but still I don't see what's fundamentally going to change if the closed shop of Scottish referees are reviewing the decisions.

[Since90+2]

I don't see what's fundamentally going to change if the closed shop of Scottish referees are reviewing the decisions.

It makes the old narrative of the "honest mistake" much harder to roll out given that it will be slowed down and rewatched from every possible angle. None of the "the referee only gets a split second" pish.

[HH81]

It makes the old narrative of the "honest mistake" much harder to roll out given that it will be slowed down and rewatched from every possible angle. None of the "the referee only gets a split second" pish.

On the other hand Rangers and Celtic will get every soft penalty going.

[Carheenlea]

With refereeing decisions mostly based on matter of opinion rather than matter of fact, the same body of match officials being let loose with it should have alarm bells ringing.

Games will be disrupted and become even less exciting than they do now, Old Firm will get even more favourable decisions and the rest of us less.

Goal line technology is about as far as it should go - Scottish Football can’t be trusted with full VAR.

[Carheenlea]

On the other hand Rangers and Celtic will get every soft penalty going.

Rangers and Celtic will be getting at least one penalty each every game. Probably more.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It makes the old narrative of the "honest mistake" much harder to roll out given that it will be slowed down and rewatched from every possible angle. None of the "the referee only gets a split second" pish.

Agreed - I’ve seen a few folk upset at Hibs on twitter for this but what you say is correct. Much harder to go down the honest mistake it evens itself up line. We’d have had a penalty on Saturday with VAR.

[gbhibby]

It will still be a penalty for Rangers.
Hopefully as we have waited for it we will get the best version of VAR. I still think that offside rule needs to be changed as it is a bit of a dogs breakfast at the moment

[Smartie]

They’ll get more decisions correct imo, but still not all of them.

I’m happy with that.

The ones they still get wrong will be very controversial and will sting to be on the wrong end of them.

[Fergus52]

I was always against implementing it in Scotland, but things like the Meuller incident on Saturday kind of make me want it. That could very easily end up costing us top 6 which could mean a massive reduction in income through prize money, gate receipts for post split games, and reduction in season tickets next year. If we have VAR we probably win that match and would have all but secured top 6 by now.

On the other hand I completely agree with the idea that it will just make the old firm bias from the refs even worse. Just about any strong tackle you can make look like a red card or a penalty if its slowed down enough and you find the right angles. Can definitely see it just being used as a tool to give the old firm even more soft decisions than they already get which could make me pretty jaded with scottish football to be honest.

The richest leagues in the world are still struggling to make VAR work effectively, even with all their camera angles and extra officials. Can only imagine how we'll manage to screw it up in Scotland.

[hibsbollah]

As a spectator and a fan at a stadium with VAR, I absolutely hate it. I hate the delay and how it destroys the spontaneity of a goal celebration and knowing a goal is a goal.

As a TV viewer, I don’t have a strong view on VAR, because when I watch TV I’m a passive consumer.

If the introduction of VAR to Scottish football would alter the pro Glasgow team bias, I’d grudgingly support it. But it won’t. It will probably make things worse, particularly where marginal penalties are concerned.

[overdrive]

I used be strongly for it but it will just be the same incompetent/corrupt referees making the decisions from it, so I'm not sure it will make much of a difference.

[bingo70]

VAR isn’t for me, I don’t really want it and would rather we just had goal line technology.

That said, there’s no question it’s coming in some format so we might as well embrace it and try to get the best format of it we can.

Saying no to it would just be delaying the inevitable IMO.

[greenlex]

Surely VAR is a step in the right direction. The dodgy penalties the old firm get should be a thing of the past. If the video evidence is no contact/dive/ no hand ball etc then they can’t be given. The subjective part is there at the moment so that won’t change. Offside is offside do that can’t for the most be subjective although to be fair I’ve seen some real tight calls with it. I’m all for it. Overall the benefit outweighs the small negatives. Are we getting goal line tech?

[Sir David Gray]

The more I see how it's used in England I don't really want it.

I have no interest in celebrating a goal only for it to be chopped off 5 minutes later because someone in a studio finds that the striker's toenail was 5cm offside after drawing 25 lines on a screen.

Goal line technology gets a yes from me, the rest I'm not really interested in and I'm not convinced that it would be used correctly.

[Hibbyradge]

On the other hand Rangers and Celtic will get every soft penalty going.

If that's true, it's no worse than we have now.

However, I think that VAR will help remove the immediate pressure refs feel from the big Rantic supports which, in my view, is the biggest reason they get more marginal decisions than other teams.

[Hibbyradge]

As a spectator and a fan at a stadium with VAR, I absolutely hate it. I hate the delay and how it destroys the spontaneity of a goal celebration and knowing a goal is a goal.

As a TV viewer, I don’t have a strong view on VAR, because when I watch TV I’m a passive consumer.

If the introduction of VAR to Scottish football would alter the pro Glasgow team bias, I’d grudgingly support it. But it won’t. It will probably make things worse, particularly where marginal penalties are concerned.

See above. I think the reverse will happen.

Referees want to get decisions right. VAR will help them do that.

[GreenCastle]

I used be strongly for it but it will just be the same incompetent/corrupt referees making the decisions from it, so I'm not sure it will make much of a difference.

Yup.

We don't even have full time refs - not like that matters but they should employ better refs from anywhere in the world. The current small group of Scottish refs are simply not good enough or accountable to the many mistakes they make.

Goal line technology should be simple enough to sort for every top flight club.

The worst part of VAR is being in the stadium and having no idea what's going on.

The solution is refs being having a microphone and explaining decisions - then at least even if they were useless we would understand their odd reasoning.

[wookie70]

As a spectator and a fan at a stadium with VAR, I absolutely hate it. I hate the delay and how it destroys the spontaneity of a goal celebration and knowing a goal is a goal.

As a TV viewer, I don’t have a strong view on VAR, because when I watch TV I’m a passive consumer.

If the introduction of VAR to Scottish football would alter the pro Glasgow team bias, I’d grudgingly support it. But it won’t. It will probably make things worse, particularly where marginal penalties are concerned.

I have only experienced the Rugby version at a stadium and it made no difference to the spontaneity of celebrations and just added another layer of emotion thereafter. Rugby can be a bit more stop start but when I look at modern football many decisions could be made in the time it takes a goalkeeper to take a bye kick. Football is so slow and the rule makers, unlike rugby, do very little to improve the game from a spectator point of view. I think VAR like everything will benefit the Uglies but it will also make it clear that referees are bent and favour our biggest two teams. At least the bias will be obvious and the didn't see it excuse won't wash.

[JohnM1875]

See above. I think the reverse will happen.

Referees want to get decisions right. VAR will help them do that.

Of course they do.

We also don't play Celtic or Rangers every week.

Folk also mention the Premier League as an example of it being **** but it's used all over the world now. Thought it worked really well at the last Euro's.

We've had decades of poor refereeing. Time to give VAR a try.

[Hibbyradge]

I have no interest in celebrating a goal only for it to be chopped off 5 minutes later because someone in a studio finds that the striker's toenail was 5cm offside after drawing 25 lines on a screen.



I've read a lot of people saying similar but I don't really get it.

How far offside should someone be before they're, well, offside?

I don't want teams winning games with offside goals just so the game "flows". No-one complains when a player gets injured and games lose a lot more "flow", and time, from that happening several times in each match.

[GreenCastle]

As has been mentioned before I'm sure it's the cheaper and not as advanced VAR.

Less cameras and operating costs - again slight worry as folk operate it from the Louden Tavern.

[hibsbollah]

See above. I think the reverse will happen.

Referees want to get decisions right. VAR will help them do that.

I suppose it depends whether you believe there is an actual deliberate bias among referees. I’ve come round to the view that there is, and because so much of application of football laws come down to opinion, not 100% fact, I think they’ll continue to profit. You clearly believe they aren’t deliberately biased, which is fair enough. The problem with structural bias is it’s hard to prove either way. No one’s going to write minutes of meetings in which they say ‘any chance we get, give the team ending in …ers a penalty’ :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

It’s not the competence of the referees that’s my main concern, it’s the impartiality.


VAR doesn’t change that and I desperately hope it doesn’t go through.

[Hibbyradge]

I suppose it depends whether you believe there is an actual deliberate bias among referees. I’ve come round to the view that there is, and because so much of application of football laws come down to opinion, not 100% fact, I think they’ll continue to profit. You clearly believe they aren’t deliberately biased, which is fair enough. The problem with structural bias is it’s hard to prove either way. No one’s going to write minutes of meetings in which they say ‘any chance we get, give the team ending in …ers a penalty’ :greengrin

You're right, we can't possibly prove it, but I can't believe that every referee would deliberately cheat.

It doesn't really matter. This debate has been done to death and the technology is coming in so we'll see what difference it makes, or not, soon enough.

[hibsbollah]

I have only experienced the Rugby version at a stadium and it made no difference to the spontaneity of celebrations and just added another layer of emotion thereafter. Rugby can be a bit more stop start but when I look at modern football many decisions could be made in the time it takes a goalkeeper to take a bye kick. Football is so slow and the rule makers, unlike rugby, do very little to improve the game from a spectator point of view. I think VAR like everything will benefit the Uglies but it will also make it clear that referees are bent and favour our biggest two teams. At least the bias will be obvious and the didn't see it excuse won't wash.

I disliked VAR (or whatever they call it at rugby, tmo?)at Murrayfield equally as much as I disliked VAR at the Stade Vélodrome, so many exciting moments spoiled by endless delays and folk asking each other what had just happened… i suppose it’s just opinion.

[Carheenlea]

I've read a lot of people saying similar but I don't really get it.

How far offside should someone be before they're, well, offside?

I don't want teams winning games with offside goals just so the game "flows". No-one complains when a player gets injured and games lose a lot more "flow", and time, from that happening several times in each match.

If they are as far offside that it is easily spotted then it’s offside.

If you are having to forensically examine an incident to determine if a part of a hand is off or someone’s heel is playing someone on then It’s bordering on the desperate trying to get goals disallowed on fine margins.

[Hibbyradge]

If they are as far offside that it is easily spotted then it’s offside.

If you are having to forensically examine an incident to determine if a part of a hand is off or someone’s heel is playing someone on then It’s bordering on the desperate trying to get goals disallowed on fine margins.

And there's the rub.

Easily spotted is a matter of opinion. The asst refs currently flag for offsides that they spot. They often get it wrong and sometimes obviously wrong.

In my opinion, if a goal is scored, it should be legitimate.

[MWHIBBIES]

Very good news, hope it happens

[Stevie Reid]

VAR isn’t for me, I don’t really want it and would rather we just had goal line technology.

That said, there’s no question it’s coming in some format so we might as well embrace it and try to get the best format of it we can.

Saying no to it would just be delaying the inevitable IMO.

Been my take on it for years, also. Don't want the delays to the games and uncertainty after you seemed to have scored a goal that goes along with it - also, the sheer desperation to find any reason to disallow a goal, and the ridiculous offside margins that I've seen used down south, just seem so anti-football.

It was used well in the Euros overall but we still saw Sterling's blatant dive in the semi final result in a penalty. Incidents like the Everton penalty not being given a few weeks ago crop up fairly regularly in England as well.

Ultimately, so many decisions are still subjective - the people operating it are just as fallible as referees, and will be as inconsistent as them as well. The most important thing of all in football is the binary matter of whether the ball has crossed the line or not - the numerous incidents that have affected us over the years as the result of goals not being awarded have stung more than any dodgy pens that we've conceded, or stonewallers we've not been awarded.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If that's true, it's no worse than we have now.

However, I think that VAR will help remove the immediate pressure refs feel from the big Rantic supports which, in my view, is the biggest reason they get more marginal decisions than other teams.

100% agree on this.

[Stevie Reid]

And there's the rub.

Easily spotted is a matter of opinion. The asst refs currently flag for offsides that they spot. They often get it wrong and sometimes obviously wrong.

In my opinion, if a goal is scored, it should be legitimate.

It's pretty obvious from looking at one replay from a good angle if a player is clearly offside or not - if Hibs lose a goal that would have required forensic analysis to prove that the tiniest part of an attackers body was offside, I won't consider it a massive injustice if it ends up being awarded.

I'm sure someone on here said that VAR in rugby just goes by the naked eye for offside?

[Carheenlea]

Agreed - I’ve seen a few folk upset at Hibs on twitter for this but what you say is correct. Much harder to go down the honest mistake it evens itself up line. We’d have had a penalty on Saturday with VAR.

There’s 4 pages of debate on here arguing over whether or not that was a penalty or not, with maybe those believing it was a penalty slightly edging it. Makes nothing clearer cut and the arguments will still rage on regardless.

[Stevie Reid]

If that's true, it's no worse than we have now.

However, I think that VAR will help remove the immediate pressure refs feel from the big Rantic supports which, in my view, is the biggest reason they get more marginal decisions than other teams.

If a referee is looking at a TV screen in the middle of 60K fans at Parkhead, or 40K at Ibrox, that pressure still exists. Probably amplified even more, in fact.

[Jones28]

I'm a fan of VAR, and we will get more decisions for us than against IMO.

[Sir David Gray]

I've read a lot of people saying similar but I don't really get it.

How far offside should someone be before they're, well, offside?

I don't want teams winning games with offside goals just so the game "flows". No-one complains when a player gets injured and games lose a lot more "flow", and time, from that happening several times in each match.

Unless it's clear and obvious to the naked eye during a review then the goal should stand.

If it takes 5 minutes and a degree in Geometry to work out that a player was 5cm offside then I believe the goal should stand.

[BoomtownHibees]

There’s 4 pages of debate on here arguing over whether or not that was a penalty or not, with maybe those believing it was a penalty slightly edging it. Makes nothing clearer cut and the arguments will still rage on regardless.

If folk have watched the replay of the challenge on Mueller then surely they can’t have an argument that it wasn’t a penalty? I wasn’t sure at the game however the replays have convinced me it was a stonewaller

[JimBHibees]

Surely VAR is a step in the right direction. The dodgy penalties the old firm get should be a thing of the past. If the video evidence is no contact/dive/ no hand ball etc then they can’t be given. The subjective part is there at the moment so that won’t change. Offside is offside do that can’t for the most be subjective although to be fair I’ve seen some real tight calls with it. I’m all for it. Overall the benefit outweighs the small negatives. Are we getting goal line tech?

Agree with this. It is all about getting the big decisions right which has been shown recently we have been on the wrong end of which means imo we are not top 6 already which we should be imo.

[Carheenlea]

Would anyone genuinely trust the likes of Kevin Clancy, John Beaton and Nick Walsh with it?

[The_Exile]

How many teams can be against it before it's vetoed? Would 7-5 see it pass?

[whiskyhibby]

It makes the old narrative of the "honest mistake" much harder to roll out given that it will be slowed down and rewatched from every possible angle. None of the "the referee only gets a split second" pish.

Completely agree

[HH81]

Would anyone genuinely trust the likes of Kevin Clancy, John Beaton and Nick Walsh with it?

I wouldn't trust them clowns to tell the time.

Useless refs.

[Alvin]

If a referee is looking at a TV screen in the middle of 60K fans at Parkhead, or 40K at Ibrox, that pressure still exists. Probably amplified even more, in fact.

Exactly. And every time the ball strikes a defender or a Rantic forward falls over in the box the refs will be under huge pressure to check with VAR.

[Hibernian Verse]

Mueller's booking would've been overturned and we might be +2 as of this weekend.

Would've had a late pen in the LCF too.

[JimBHibees]

Would anyone genuinely trust the likes of Kevin Clancy, John Beaton and Nick Walsh with it?

What it would do is highlight even more bad decisions however one of the big issues with VAR is sometimes the guy in the van doesnt allow the ref on the pitch the chance to see it again as per Everton Man City penalty.

[flash]

Would anyone genuinely trust the likes of Kevin Clancy, John Beaton and Nick Walsh with it?

Genuinely mean no offence but I wouldn't trust you with it if you think that wasn't a penalty on Saturday.

[Lago]

A step in the right direction, but still I don't see what's fundamentally going to change if the closed shop of Scottish referees are reviewing the decisions.
And that in a nut shell is the problem.

[worcesterhibby]

Every goal that Rantic score will be fine..every goal scored against them will be forensically checked for any possible infringement. The same for penalties, if it's against them, no check...if it's for them 20 camera angles to try to prove a penalty.

I think it will make the bias worse. The FACTS will show this. Look at the average number of goals conceded across a season by the old firm up till now..then see how it drops once VAR is introduced. The number of penalty's against them will fall and the number in their favour will increase.

BAD NEWS

[flash]

Every goal that Rantic score will be fine..every goal scored against them will be forensically checked for any possible infringement. The same for penalties, if it's against them, no check...if it's for them 20 camera angles to try to prove a penalty.

I think it will make the bias worse. The FACTS will show this. Look at the average number of goals conceded across a season by the old firm up till now..then see how it drops once VAR is introduced. The number of penalty's against them will fall and the number in their favour will increase.

BAD NEWS

Disagree with every word of this.

[Rondon]

Sorry if mentioned elsewhere, but first time I've seen it - Hibs are to formally support VAR adoption, by voting for it on 19 April

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-make-first-public-var-26635296


Should think so too. Anyone who doesn’t support this has something wrong with them.

[brog]

If that's true, it's no worse than we have now.

However, I think that VAR will help remove the immediate pressure refs feel from the big Rantic supports which, in my view, is the biggest reason they get more marginal decisions than other teams.


I'm with you 100% on this.

[brog]

Every goal that Rantic score will be fine..every goal scored against them will be forensically checked for any possible infringement. The same for penalties, if it's against them, no check...if it's for them 20 camera angles to try to prove a penalty.

I think it will make the bias worse. The FACTS will show this. Look at the average number of goals conceded across a season by the old firm up till now..then see how it drops once VAR is introduced. The number of penalty's against them will fall and the number in their favour will increase.

BAD NEWS

Penalties can't drop from zero! 😀

[danhibees1875]

I think it will make things more accurate across the piece. I don't think there's quite as much bias towards the OF as it's made out, but any that's there will be eroded by VAR.

I'd still not bother with it at this stage, although I could be minded to be more for it down the line.

I believe it runs the risk of sanitising the game too much. Getting to a point where a goal is only half heartedly celebrated due to it being hardwired into your subconscious that there's still a VAR review to come isn't appealing to me. However, I'm not sure if that's how it's really played out in EPL or other leagues.

On balance, I'd rather just go with spontaneous in the moment decisions at the moment even if they are marginally less accurate than they could be under VAR. It may also come to pass that a more free flowing decision making process becomes a niche for the Scottish game.

[WeeRussell]

Personally hate VAR for reasons done to death, but I’m not surprised or annoyed that Hibs have voted for it. I would also expect enough votes to have it passed.

[Smartie]

Even the corrupt and incompetent would be forced to get the clear as day decisions right.

Unfortunately there is still a matter of opinion when it comes to certain decisions. Our most controversial one this season was Porteous' red card at Ibrox. Even on here, with the benefit of multiple replays, we cannot agree on whether or not that was the correct decision or not. VAR won't change that and you'd have to accept that every now and again you were going to disagree with the opinion of the person making the decision.

I don't think that's a good enough reason not to want to get a decent few decisions right though.

And whilst I think they've mad a pig's ear of the implementation of it in England, I thought it was well used at the recent Euros. The refereeing and the football was actually very good at that tournament, partly as a result of VAR being used well.

[KeithTheHibby]

The more I see how it's used in England I don't really want it.

I have no interest in celebrating a goal only for it to be chopped off 5 minutes later because someone in a studio finds that the striker's toenail was 5cm offside after drawing 25 lines on a screen.

Goal line technology gets a yes from me, the rest I'm not really interested in and I'm not convinced that it would be used correctly.

5cm or not it's still offside. If VAR helps right the wrongs our imcompetent referees seem to make then I am all for it.

[KeithTheHibby]

If a referee is looking at a TV screen in the middle of 60K fans at Parkhead, or 40K at Ibrox, that pressure still exists. Probably amplified even more, in fact.

How is that any different to refs standing at Old Trafford or Anfield? If their balls aren't big enough get them to ****, they are clearly in the wrong job.
Plus if they decide to ***** themselves and give a decision which clearly goes the opposite of VAR then they are under scrutiny whereas at the moment they are not.

[Coco Bryce]

We need to get the foreign refs in charge like we had before when our tinpot lot went on strike.

They were brilliant. Didn't give a **** about the two arse cheeks.

[Sir David Gray]

5cm or not it's still offside. If VAR helps right the wrongs our imcompetent referees seem to make then I am all for it.

Yeah I realise it is still technically offside if it's 5cm but for me VAR should only be involved in overturning decisions which are clearly and obviously wrong and I would argue that some of the decisions which are being made in England are not clearly and obviously wrong.

The time and effort that is spent on analysing some of the offside decisions in England still does not always result in a correct decision being made and I worry about the time it will take between the goal being scored and the VAR decision being made.

[Mcbizz1998]

Suppose it will mean they will get more correct/be less blatant with their cheating but tbh…..I would rather we don’t have VAR.

Ruins the joy of scoring a goal, worrying that it will be chalked off.

[Stevie Reid]

How is that any different to refs standing at Old Trafford or Anfield? If their balls aren't big enough get them to ****, they are clearly in the wrong job.
Plus if they decide to ***** themselves and give a decision which clearly goes the opposite of VAR then they are under scrutiny whereas at the moment they are not.

It's not, I was just commenting on Hibbyradge's view that the pressure from a large, partisan home crowd wouldn't be a factor in decision making.

[staunchhibby]

Ye the Maltese referee who officiated at the Hibs match when our imposters went on strike was a treat to watch:aok:

[A Hi-Bee]

Ye the Maltese referee who officiated at the Hibs match when our imposters went on strike was a treat to watch:aok:

Bring them back, then we will see a difference, change for the good of football, never gonna happen.

[Smartie]

Yeah I realise it is still technically offside if it's 5cm but for me VAR should only be involved in overturning decisions which are clearly and obviously wrong and I would argue that some of the decisions which are being made in England are not clearly and obviously wrong.

The time and effort that is spent on analysing some of the offside decisions in England still does not always result in a correct decision being made and I worry about the time it will take between the goal being scored and the VAR decision being made.

I think there needs to be an agreed amount of forgiveness when it comes to players being "level" when it comes to offsides.

Players being offside by a couple of cm is nonsense.

The lines that they draw on the pitch when it comes to offsides need to be relatively (!?!?!) wide, so that a reasonable benefit of the doubt can be given to the attacking player, as per the agreed rules and customs of football over the past few decades.

Yes, it will be open to abuse, but it should speed the decisions up a bit rather than excrutiatingly analysing whether or not a toe is in an offside position.

[ekhibee]

Well I'm all for it. Decisions going Celtic and Sevco's way, and Hearts at Tynecastle, if it puts a stop to any of that I'm all in favour of it. And unlike some others I coudn't give a **** if it stops the game for a couple of minutes. For me it's more exciting than watching some of the dross on show in a whole load of Scottish league games.

[MWHIBBIES]

Every goal that Rantic score will be fine..every goal scored against them will be forensically checked for any possible infringement. The same for penalties, if it's against them, no check...if it's for them 20 camera angles to try to prove a penalty.

I think it will make the bias worse. The FACTS will show this. Look at the average number of goals conceded across a season by the old firm up till now..then see how it drops once VAR is introduced. The number of penalty's against them will fall and the number in their favour will increase.

BAD NEWS

Even if this was true (it's utter pish, but I'll humour you), we play at least 30 league other matches a season. Will in not make a difference in those?

[Since452]

The way it was used in the Liverpool game at the weekend was wrong imo. Would rather it was used only if the ref or linesman was in doubt about something which lead to a goal. Stopping play to check VAR and award a penalty that nobody claimed for and the referee didn't spot just is just crap.

[neil7908]

I'm all for it. I've been to a couple of games where it was in place and don't even remember it being used. We only hear about the odd controversial issue from England, and not the many other games that ran smoothly.

It won't end unfair referring as too many decisions are still up to one man, and there is no clear "right answer". But it will cut out the worst mistakes.

People don't like change but there is too much money and importance placed on football now to leave it to one man trying to follow 22 players and a ball in real time, especially when we can watch things at home from 10 different angles.

It's telling for me that all of the initial anti VAR stuff in places it's been introduced has largely died down. I do think though decisions need to be made quicker - fans shouldn't be waiting minutes to confirm if a decision is to be overturned. I also think the laws of the game need to be reviewed for the VAR era and more consistency applied. But that's the case now and not only do we have to deal with that, but also some truly shocking decisions that we can say categorically won't happen with VAR.

[Not In The Know]

Mueller's booking would've been overturned and we might be +2 as of this weekend.

Would've had a late pen in the LCF too.

Black sent off in that cup final and no penalty for them. Also, not been relegated. And we’d be gtd top 6 already this year.

it will remove another layer of ambiguity from the decision making. Card per fouls prove we get looked upon unfairly.

[PatHead]

VAR will be great for TV viewers but not for those at the match with the experience losing its spontaneity. I have only experienced it once and it made it stop/start with the game being stopped for what appears to be no reason.

As for miking up the ref, we can hardly hear announcements as it is and most grounds do not have a big TV screen to let you know what is happening. No use for Hibs fans at away games.

The same incompetent officials we have today or that have retired will be making the decisions. VAR has not solved dubious decisions in England, debates still occur every week.

Yes decisions have gone against us but I can guarantee that Sevco would have had a penalty in the final when Lewis pushed their forward. 40 angles would have been looked at to find Stokes brushed against their defender at the equaliser.

Does anyone really believe that Sevco and Celtic would be the main protagonists in getting this introduced if they thought it would work against them?

The big problem is that once it has arrived we are stuck with it.

Far better to ensure referees come from all over Scotland and introduce goal line technology.

Finally, Livingston have got it correct by consulting fans on such a major decision. Hibs should have done likewise.

Can someone set up a poll to get the feeling from here?

[Danderhall Hibs]

There's a few comments on here about goal line technology but how big a difference would it make? Aside from the 2 goals v Hearts I can't really remember any other occasions it would've been needed (and it shouldn't have been needed those times either).

[JimBHibees]

VAR will be great for TV viewers but not for those at the match with the experience losing its spontaneity. I have only experienced it once and it made it stop/start with the game being stopped for what appears to be no reason.

As for miking up the ref, we can hardly hear announcements as it is and most grounds do not have a big TV screen to let you know what is happening. No use for Hibs fans at away games.

The same incompetent officials we have today or that have retired will be making the decisions. VAR has not solved dubious decisions in England, debates still occur every week.

Yes decisions have gone against us but I can guarantee that Sevco would have had a penalty in the final when Lewis pushed their forward. 40 angles would have been looked at to find Stokes brushed against their defender at the equaliser.

Does anyone really believe that Sevco and Celtic would be the main protagonists in getting this introduced if they thought it would work against them?

The big problem is that once it has arrived we are stuck with it.

Far better to ensure referees come from all over Scotland and introduce goal line technology.

Finally, Livingston have got it correct by consulting fans on such a major decision. Hibs should have done likewise.

Can someone set up a poll to get the feeling from here?

Fair to say it would be much quicker to get round the Livi support than the Hibs one.

[Since452]

Will Hearts have to display VAR decisions on their wee advertising board at the corner fllag?

[Stokesy's on fire]

A step in the right direction, but still I don't see what's fundamentally going to change if the closed shop of Scottish referees are reviewing the decisions.

Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen will still get off with murder

[Forza Fred]

Oz has had it more than anyone, being where they first trialled it.

I was slightly in favour of it when first introduced but now prefer if it was only goal line technology.

Offside decisions STILL get argued about….one involving Martin Boyle against Saudi Arabia took FOUR minutes to adjudicate.

It’s supposed to be used in the event of a ‘clear and obvious error’…by the ref, but that leaves a fair bit leeway when it comes to tackling, so cries of ‘never a penalty’ or ‘stonewall’ will still be used in the after match discussions in the pub.

Two main things I don’t like are

1 After a goal is scored celebrations can be muted as the awarding/cancellation can take minutes, not seconds.

2 Also the advice that linesmen have been given not to raise the flag for offside until the move breaks down…in case they are wrong and VAR decides…will surely lead to last gasp tackles that will be needless and could cause unnecessary injury to attackers..

I predict that there will still be a view that it is used to benefit the Old Firm over other clubs.

[Carheenlea]

Will Hearts have to display VAR decisions on their wee advertising board at the corner fllag?

:hilarious

[Hibbyradge]

Unless it's clear and obvious to the naked eye during a review then the goal should stand.



I've got a lot of time for that argument, but that's a criticism of how VAR is used, not it's overall merits.

I think that it's actually technology which measures offside in tight decisions and if so, it's likely to be accurate.

However, unless the technology can also tell the precise moment the ball is played forward, it may be analysing the wrong fraction of a second.

My opinion is that VAR is good for football. It's application needs work

[Hibbyradge]

Exactly. And every time the ball strikes a defender or a Rantic forward falls over in the box the refs will be under huge pressure to check with VAR.

VAR constantly checks incidents in EPL games. The match refs are not involved in that.

They only get involved when VAR, being operated from a remote site, suggests that something was missed.

[Hibbyradge]

If a referee is looking at a TV screen in the middle of 60K fans at Parkhead, or 40K at Ibrox, that pressure still exists. Probably amplified even more, in fact.

I think it's the case that, in the EPl, VAR checks are done at a site away from the stadium.

The ref only gets involved if the folk operating VAR think he's missed something.

[Hibbyradge]

Every goal that Rantic score will be fine..every goal scored against them will be forensically checked for any possible infringement. The same for penalties, if it's against them, no check...if it's for them 20 camera angles to try to prove a penalty.

I think it will make the bias worse. The FACTS will show this. Look at the average number of goals conceded across a season by the old firm up till now..then see how it drops once VAR is introduced. The number of penalty's against them will fall and the number in their favour will increase.

BAD NEWS

If you think Scottish football is as corrupt as that, why do you watch it?

[Hibernia&Alba]

If you think Scottish football is as corrupt as that, why do you watch it?

We can't be blamed for being cynical. VAR is meant to point out 'clear and obvious' errors. How many 'errors' that are unclear and anything but obvious will benefit the Old Firm via VAR? Of course both those clubs will wallow in self-pity and claim VAR is in fact being used against them. They are brazen.

[Hibbyradge]

We need to get the foreign refs in charge like we had before when our tinpot lot went on strike.

They were brilliant. Didn't give a **** about the two arse cheeks.

I don't think Scottish people are less trustworthy than foreigners.

[Hibernia&Alba]

When VAR asks the referee to check the monitor for an incident that might benefit the Old Firm, how many will have the backbone to go against VAR, even if they think they should? They would be hounded as anti-Celtic or anti-Rangers.

Like everything in Scottish football, I think the big two will be net beneficiaries.

[Heisenberg]

When VAR asks the referee to check the monitor for an incident that might benefit the Old Firm, how many will have the backbone to go against VAR, even if they think they should? They would be hounded as anti-Celtic or anti-Rangers.

Like everything in Scottish football, I think the big two will be net beneficiaries.

Having seen it used in England the refs very rarely ever go against VAR when asked to review on the screen.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Having seen it used in England the refs very rarely ever go against VAR when asked to review on the screen.

True, it's the 'clear and obvious' mandate.

[PatHead]

When VAR asks the referee to check the monitor for an incident that might benefit the Old Firm, how many will have the backbone to go against VAR, even if they think they should? They would be hounded as anti-Celtic or anti-Rangers.

Like everything in Scottish football, I think the big two will be net beneficiaries.

They wouldn't push for if they thought it was not in their interests.

[where'stheslope]

Does anyone know the reason that 42 clubs to vote on it, when only 12 will be getting it????
It seems like the tail wagging the dog to me!!!!

[flash]

They both think they get shafted compared to each other.

It's as simple as that.

[Coco Bryce]

I don't think Scottish people are less trustworthy than foreigners.

Scottish Referees are not normal trustworthy people though are they.

[Stevie Reid]

Rangers have benefitted (sometimes correctly) from VAR so often in Europe this season.

[LaMotta]

There's a period between about 2011-2014 that Var would have completely transformed our derby results. The number of ludicrous decisions Hearts got against us was astonishing, from Griffiths free kick over the line, Forsters onside but disallowed goal, and numerous retrospective Hearts red cards being awarded.

[Danderhall Hibs]

There's a period between about 2011-2014 that Var would have completely transformed our derby results. The number of ludicrous decisions Hearts got against us was astonishing, from Griffiths free kick over the line, Forsters onside but disallowed goal, and numerous retrospective Hearts red cards being awarded.

:agree: Still to be evened up - hopefully the next 8 days or so will sort that out.

[500miles]

Cant wait for "Porteous caught picking nose by VAR. 6 month ban."