40 years since the Falklands War

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60967975

I hadn't been aware what a key role Rosyth played. Yesterday's commemorative ceremony sounds quite emotional.

Imagine crewing a fishing trawler converted into a mine sweeper all the way to the Falklands. Some brave and hardy folk involved for sure.

[weecounty hibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60967975

I hadn't been aware what a key role Rosyth played. Yesterday's commemorative ceremony sounds quite emotional.

Imagine crewing a fishing trawler converted into a mine sweeper all the way to the Falklands. Some brave and hardy folk involved for sure.

Another needless war with young men dying to prop up a right wing Tory government.

[Ozyhibby]

Another needless war with young men dying to prop up a right wing Tory government.

Disagree. Whatever is thought of Thatcher or our sovereignty of the Falklands, you can’t let countries take territory by force.


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[weecounty hibby]

Disagree. Whatever is thought of Thatcher or our sovereignty of the Falklands, you can’t let countries take territory by force.


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She knew about the possible invasion weeks in advance. If she had put a force onto the islands the Argintinians would never have invaded. Lives were lost that didn't need to be lost

And as an edit. Britain has taken territories by force for centuries

[Stairway 2 7]

She knew about the possible invasion weeks in advance. If she had put a force onto the islands the Argintinians would never have invaded. Lives were lost that didn't need to be lost

And as an edit. Britain has taken territories by force for centuries

Two wrongs ect. If the people of the Falklands want to be British they should be, in the same way as if Scotland doesn't want to be British it shouldn't be.

[weecounty hibby]

Two wrongs ect. If the people of the Falklands want to be British they should be, in the same way as if Scotland doesn't want to be British it shouldn't be.
That's not what I said. They are entitled to be what they want. The war was needless if she had sent troops to the island there would have been no invasion

[He's here!]

Another needless war with young men dying to prop up a right wing Tory government.

That wasn't the rationale at all. If anything it was the Argentinian forces who were badly let down, many of them raw recruits who had no idea why they were even being sent to the Falklands.

Interesting interview here with a lady who subsequently went on to become leader of Highland Council, which highlights how ill-trained the invading forces were. They were quickly disabused of the notion that they were likely to be greeted as liberators by the Falkland islanders:

We hid in the cellar as the Falklands were invaded - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60848223)

[weecounty hibby]

That wasn't the rationale at all. If anything it was the Argentinian forces who were badly let down, many of them raw recruits who had no idea why they were even being sent to the Falklands.

Interesting interview here with a lady who subsequently went on to become leader of Highland Council, which highlights how ill-trained the invading forces were. They were quickly disabused of the notion that they were likely to be greeted as liberators by the Falkland islanders:

We hid in the cellar as the Falklands were invaded - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60848223)

I should probably have said that it was a needless war used to prop up two right wing governments. Needless deaths on both sides.

[Kato]

That's not what I said. They are entitled to be what they want. The war was needless if she had sent troops to the island there would have been no invasionIn 1979 when the Argentinian Govt were sabre rattling about those islands the PM James Callachan sent a few warships to sit on the horizon of Buenos Aires. Nobody died.

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[Ozyhibby]

In 1979 when the Argentinian Govt were sabre rattling about those islands the PM James Callachan sent a few warships to sit on the horizon of Buenos Aires. Nobody died.

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But then they were back three years later. 40 years on from 1982 and there is scarcely a peep from them.


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[stu in nottingham]

Our hero had something to say on its anniversary.

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-andrew-reflects-on-falklands-war-on-his-ex-wifes-instagram-before-posts-were-deleted-12580856

[Kato]

But then they were back three years later. 40 years on from 1982 and there is scarcely a peep from them.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey were back in three years because they thought Alexander Haig would step in and stop the UK retaliating. After helping the CIA with intelligence fighting the Contras the CIA hinted to the Argentinians they could dissuade the UK from doing anything. At the same time the CIA were informing the UK what was going on knowing that a UK counter-offensive would boost Thatcher's Tories. The Argentinians were suckered into that invasion.

Another good reason they haven't went back is they aren't governed by fascist, military junta fighting 600% inflation and looking for a populist diversion amongst their population any more.

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[Mike Berry]

Disagree. Whatever is thought of Thatcher or our sovereignty of the Falklands, you can’t let countries take territory by force.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's a colony. It never was a legitimate part of the uk. At the time the Falklands war started, inhabitants of the islands weren't classed as uk citizens (apart from the garrison). Legislation after the conflict made them uk citizens. Not only that, but only months before it, the uk government had been discussing ceding the islands. That war was started in order to make sure the Tories stayed in power. Before the conflict, the Tories were down in the polls and on track to lose the '83 election. After the conflict, they won a landslide victory.

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[Kato]

Not only that, but only months before it, the uk government had been discussing ceding the islands.

Part of the ruse.



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[Stairway 2 7]

It's been British for about 200 years. I'm all for nations going away from British rule, but it's never going back to Argentina and they should accept that.

2013 vote on staying a British territory 93% turn out
Yes 1,513 99.80%
No 3 0.20%

[He's here!]

It's been British for about 200 years. I'm all for nations going away from British rule, but it's never going back to Argentina and they should accept that.

2013 vote on staying a British territory 93% turn out
Yes 1,513 99.80%
No 3 0.20%.

Yep, might seem a bit quirky these days but you have to respect something as decisive as that.

My initial post was actually more focused on the Rosyth effort. You can tell that those who worked on the ships who are still around retain a lot of pride in what they achieved when working against the clock.

[speedy_gonzales]

It's been British for about 200 years. I'm all for nations going away from British rule, but it's never going back to Argentina and they should accept that.

2013 vote on staying a British territory 93% turn out
Yes 1,513 99.80%
No 3 0.20%


Back? I'm not going to Google it or refer to Wikipedia but the islands to my knowledge were never settled by "Argentina"?
Apologies if wrong but that's what seems to have stuck in mind from 40 years ago.

[Stairway 2 7]

Back? I'm not going to Google it or refer to Wikipedia but the islands to my knowledge were never settled by "Argentina"?
Apologies if wrong but that's what seems to have stuck in mind from 40 years ago.

Spanish, uk and Argentina had tiny settlements of a few people but nothing stuck. Been uk settlement from 1840, think it was Scots first, all half remembered so could be pish

[lapsedhibee]

Our hero had something to say on its anniversary.

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-andrew-reflects-on-falklands-war-on-his-ex-wifes-instagram-before-posts-were-deleted-12580856

Never occurred to me that one of the Queen's children would be unable to write in the Queen's English.

[The Tubs]

Never occurred to me that one of the Queen's children would be unable to write in the Queen's English.

It really is a disgrace.

[lapsedhibee]

It really is a disgrace.

Luckily there's a good few in line before him, but it would be quite, quite unthinkable for a potential wearer of the metal hat to be spouting grocers' apostrophes etc.

[Jones28]

Our hero had something to say on its anniversary.

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-andrew-reflects-on-falklands-war-on-his-ex-wifes-instagram-before-posts-were-deleted-12580856

How ****ing desperate do you have to be to get your opinion out there that you use your ex wife’s instagram?

[Jack]

The torys had reduced the defence budget by so much an unpopular Argentinian government saw an opportunity to take the islands and become more popular.

An unpopular tory government saw retaking the islands as a great way to win an upcoming election.

There were rumours at the time of UK forces almost running out of ammunition, taking what they could from captured Argentinians. This wasn't because of the cuts but one of the many civilian ships/boats that were requisitioned being sunk along with a ship load of other important equipment.

It was close run thing as to which bunch of political despots would save their own skins.

[Jones28]

All the geo political stuff aside, it was an impressive feat to keep an army effective when they were 8000 miles away over ocean with no friendly territory for the UK to use apart from South Georgia.

If anyones interested there’s a great documentary on the Vulcan bomber mission to knock out the runway on West Falkland near Port Stanley, the logistics of it were astonishingly complicated.

[ronaldo7]

All the geo political stuff aside, it was an impressive feat to keep an army effective when they were 8000 miles away over ocean with no friendly territory for the UK to use apart from South Georgia.

If anyones interested there’s a great documentary on the Vulcan bomber mission to knock out the runway on West Falkland near Port Stanley, the logistics of it were astonishingly complicated.

Chile, and Pinochet were more than helpful to the UK, with information, and the use of remote airstrips at the time. Chile had been on the brink of war with Argentina 4 years earlier over three islands in the Beagle channel. Pope John Paul helped stop that war. Thatcher did a deal with Pinochet for Chile to purchase 9 Hawker hunter planes at low cost, breaking a worldwide embargo on arms due to alleged abuses during the Pinochet regime. They then received 3 reconnaissance planes after the war.

We also stopped off at ascension islands, around half way from the UK.

[Mike Berry]

Chile, and Pinochet were more than helpful to the UK, with information, and the use of remote airstrips at the time. Chile had been on the brink of war with Argentina 4 years earlier over three islands in the Beagle channel. Pope John Paul helped stop that war. Thatcher did a deal with Pinochet for Chile to purchase 9 Hawker hunter planes at low cost, breaking a worldwide embargo on arms due to alleged abuses during the Pinochet regime. They then received 3 reconnaissance planes after the war.Pinochet was the most vile murdering dictator. Took power by ordering an air strike against the Chile parliament, murdered his predecessor Allende, and was responsible for the torture and "disappearance" of many thousands of people. All with the backing of America.

Thatcher later gave him sanctuary when he was about to be prosecuted for his crimes. Even invited him round for tea.

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[Jones28]

Chile, and Pinochet were more than helpful to the UK, with information, and the use of remote airstrips at the time. Chile had been on the brink of war with Argentina 4 years earlier over three islands in the Beagle channel. Pope John Paul helped stop that war. Thatcher did a deal with Pinochet for Chile to purchase 9 Hawker hunter planes at low cost, breaking a worldwide embargo on arms due to alleged abuses during the Pinochet regime. They then received 3 reconnaissance planes after the war.

We also stopped off at ascension islands, around half way from the UK.


A mere 3 thousand miles away?

My point was that there wasn't any sort of staging post as such, and the British forces arrvied knowing that they would have to land and secure territory to operate. If it had been some sort of Bay of Pigs disaster it could have been really nasty.

[ronaldo7]

A mere 3 thousand miles away?

My point was that there wasn't any sort of staging post as such, and the British forces arrvied knowing that they would have to land and secure territory to operate. If it had been some sort of Bay of Pigs disaster it could have been really nasty.

Yes, I get all that, and it was the right thing to to, to have the paras yomp from the farthest position from the Argentine troops, however we didn't set sail from Portsmouth and then the first land sighted was the Falkland Islands. The first stage of the journey was prep, without a threat. The second was different.

[Stairway 2 7]

The distance is impressive seeing now the Russians struggle with logistics across their border. Maybe that says more about them than us

[Jones28]

Yes, I get all that, and it was the right thing to to, to have the paras yomp from the farthest position from the Argentine troops, however we didn't set sail from Portsmouth and then the first land sighted was the Falkland Islands. The first stage of the journey was prep, without a threat. The second was different.


The distance is impressive seeing now the Russians struggle with logistics across their border. Maybe that says more about them than us

I think Stairway has made the point better than I could.

[Jack]

Yes, I get all that, and it was the right thing to to, to have the paras yomp from the farthest position from the Argentine troops, however we didn't set sail from Portsmouth and then the first land sighted was the Falkland Islands. The first stage of the journey was prep, without a threat. The second was different.

The paras wouldn't have had to yomp if their helicopters had been got off the Atlantic Conveyor before it was hit. If the RN had its own ships to take its equipment to the Falklands it would have probably got there intact. The Atlantic Conveyor had no defensive systems fitted before it left the UK.

[ronaldo7]

I think Stairway has made the point better than I could.

I don't disagree that the distance was impressive, but we did have help, and land bases to use.

[ronaldo7]

The paras wouldn't have had to yomp if their helicopters had been got off the Atlantic Conveyor before it was hit. If the RN had its own ships to take its equipment to the Falklands it would have probably got there intact. The Atlantic Conveyor had no defensive systems fitted before it left the UK.

Agreed.

The requesitioning of cruise liners was not a good look.

[Jack]

Agreed.

The requesitioning of cruise liners was not a good look.

The Canberra was used as a troop carrier, still in its cruise ship colour, white. The Argentinian pilots didn't target it as they thought it was a hospital ship. God knows what the outcome would have been if they'd known the truth. 4,000 British troops on board.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

I remember seeing a piece on the news, probably on the 30th anniversary, about the handful of residents that didn't support British rule or at least thought their prospects were better as part of Argentina.
After the war they chose to leave, were given Argentinian citizenship and lived out a fairly comfortable existence in the Buenos Aires suburbs.
They of course could never return and hadn't seen family or friends since. Really normal names like Trevor or Gary. I found it fascinating.

[JimBHibees]

How ****ing desperate do you have to be to get your opinion out there that you use your ex wife’s instagram?

Indeed to start off with as I sit here at my desk on this cold spring morning. Dear oh dear attention seeking idiot. Royals clearly backing him.

[Bostonhibby]

Pinochet was the most vile murdering dictator. Took power by ordering an air strike against the Chile parliament, murdered his predecessor Allende, and was responsible for the torture and "disappearance" of many thousands of people. All with the backing of America.

Thatcher later gave him sanctuary when he was about to be prosecuted for his crimes. Even invited him round for tea.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using TapatalkThatcher enjoyed a "special" relationship with this mass killer of his own people and this extract from one of her subsequent speeches praising him suggests he was helpful in the Falklands logistically too.

"Senator Pinochet came here last September as a long-standing friend of Britain. Though I shall not go into the details, I can say that without President Pinochet’s considerable practical help in 1982, many more of our servicemen would have lost their lives in the South Atlantic. The country thus owes him a great debt".


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[Keith_M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60967975

I hadn't been aware what a key role Rosyth played. Yesterday's commemorative ceremony sounds quite emotional.

Imagine crewing a fishing trawler converted into a mine sweeper all the way to the Falklands. Some brave and hardy folk involved for sure.


In the summer of 1982, at the height of the war, I'd only recently left school (16 y/o) and started working in Rosyth two or three days a week. I remember vividly how busy it was.

Can't believe it's nearly 40 years ago.

[Hibrandenburg]

At the end of 1982, at the height of the war, I'd only recently left school (16 y/o) and working in Rosyth two or three days a week. I remember vividly how busy it was.

Can't believe it's nearly 40 years ago.Me too, the Falklands war was a real spanner in the works of my plans to get away. I'd planned to join the Army Apprenticeship College at Harrogate aged 16 with my mother's blessing but she changed her mind after the Argentinian invasion. I had to wait a year and a half until I was 17½ and didn't need her approval anymore before joining. The ****ty jobs I had in the meantime only made me more resolute to escape.

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[Berwickhibby]

Me too, the Falklands war was a real spanner in the works of my plans to get away. I'd planned to join the Army Apprenticeship College at Harrogate aged 16 with my mother's blessing but she changed her mind after the Argentinian invasion. I had to wait a year and a half until I was 17½ and didn't need her approval anymore before joining. The ****ty jobs I had in the meantime only made me more resolute to escape.

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I was HQ 4 Armd Div and Sig Regt in Herford, quite a few guys went out, some did not return.

[Keith_M]

I was HQ 4 Armd Div and Sig Regt in Herford, quite a few guys went out, some did not return.


Sorry to hear that, mate.

[Keith_M]

Me too, the Falklands war was a real spanner in the works of my plans to get away. I'd planned to join the Army Apprenticeship College at Harrogate aged 16 with my mother's blessing but she changed her mind after the Argentinian invasion. I had to wait a year and a half until I was 17½ and didn't need her approval anymore before joining. The ****ty jobs I had in the meantime only made me more resolute to escape.

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Didn't you work in one of the shops in Musselburgh High St for about a year?

[Hibrandenburg]

Didn't you work in one of the shops in Musselburgh High St for about a year?Yep, first stop was Esk Valley College where I did a STC Motor Vehicle, then a couple of months fitting guttering on houses before working at the Coop on the High Street.

I was surprised to read that you left school at 16 too.

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[Hibrandenburg]

I was HQ 4 Armd Div and Sig Regt in Herford, quite a few guys went out, some did not return.I think the Signals lost about 10 in the conflict, I remember seeing a plaque at 264 in remembrance of one of their guys and a list of the Corps fallen.

I spent 6 months on the Falklands in 1992 on one of the mountain rebroadcast stations. Got to see a lot of West Falkland as one of the first things I did was change the shift system from 2 days/2 nights/2 off to 7/7/7. That meant I could go tabbing from settlement to settlement.

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[Berwickhibby]

I think the Signals lost about 10 in the conflict, I remember seeing a plaque at 264 in remembrance of one of their guys and a list of the Corps fallen.

I spent 6 months on the Falklands in 1992 on one of the mountain rebroadcast stations. Got to see a lot of West Falkland as one of the first things I did was change the shift system from 2 days/2 nights/2 off to 7/7/7. That meant I could go tabbing from settlement to settlement.

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Yeah that will be Paul Lightfoot … nice big guy

[Hibrandenburg]

Yeah that will be Paul Lightfoot … nice big guy

Don't know BH, as explained earlier it was just before my time.

[Berwickhibby]

Don't know BH, as explained earlier it was just before my time.

Played football with him at 11 Sigs … he was on his Det Comanders course to get his full screw. He got killed in a helicopter crash

[Keith_M]

Yep, first stop was Esk Valley College where I did a STC Motor Vehicle, then a couple of months fitting guttering on houses before working at the Coop on the High Street.

I was surprised to read that you left school at 16 too.

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I hated school and couldn't wait to leave.

Problem was there was 3.5 million unemployed (bl**dy Thatcher!), so I hit the heady heights of Window Cleaner with the same company as my Dad.

[Hibrandenburg]

Played football with him at 11 Sigs … he was on his Det Comanders course to get his full screw. He got killed in a helicopter crashDet Commander's Course, now that's a memory that sends shivers down my spine. 2 weeks of sleep deprivation and generally being ****ed about by army tick tock sadists. The most pointless course I ever participated in.

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[Berwickhibby]

Det Commander's Course, now that's a memory that sends shivers down my spine. 2 weeks of sleep deprivation and generally being ****ed about by army tick tock sadists. The most pointless course I ever participated in.

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I will raise your Det Commanders course to All Arms drill instructor at Pirbright, a course I did not want or need, but as I was attached to the Irish Guards and the vacancy needed filled by a member of the attached personnel… I apparently was first name out the hat.

[Hibrandenburg]

I hated school and couldn't wait to leave.

Problem was there was 3.5 million unemployed (bl**dy Thatcher!), so I hit the heady heights of Window Cleaner with the same company as my Dad.Me too. I took 7 O-Grades and passed 6 of the prelims before deciding I didn't need them to join the army, work down the pits that were still open or go on the fishing boats. After Thatcher was finished with destroying traditional industry, I think the army was probably the best choice.

Wish I had stayed on at school but it just seemed so pointless back in the early 80's. Arriving in Germany back in 84 seemed like another planet after leaving Thatcher's Britain. I actually bumped into the old boot in 92 whilst on the Falklands. She was on a helicopter that resupplied our position whilst touring the islands on the 10th anniversary of the war. When I opened the side door of the helicopter the old bag was sat inside with some Brigadier, she asked him "why does that soldier have a beard"? If looks could kill.

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[hibsbollah]

I was in the US in the 90s, staying in D.C. with a extremely left wing progressive, probably a Bernie Sanders supporter. She told me during the Falklands the US left were protesting in SUPPORT of the U.K. in the Falklands, wearing ‘We Back Britain’ buttons (badges) etc, because at the time the Reagan administration was supplying the Far right Argentinian junta with arms and logistical support, and the US left saw the UKs involvement as defending a small defenceless island against aggression. Which obviously is how no one on the U.K. left was thinking at the time.

…interesting how you pick sides.

[Haymaker]

I was in the US in the 90s, staying in D.C. with a extremely left wing progressive, probably a Bernie Sanders supporter. She told me during the Falklands the US left were protesting in SUPPORT of the U.K. in the Falklands, wearing ‘We Back Britain’ buttons (badges) etc, because at the time the Reagan administration was supplying the Far right Argentinian junta with arms and logistical support, and the US left saw the UKs involvement as defending a small defenceless island against aggression. Which obviously is how no one on the U.K. left was thinking at the time.

…interesting how you pick sides.

Funny you bring up the US, I know a couple people who are adamant that the US was involved in the retaking of the islands, that US combat troops deployed and lost their lives in the Falklands and that "Britain would never have taken the islands back without [US] intervention".

Which I found quite baffling.

[Hibrandenburg]

Funny you bring up the US, I know a couple people who are adamant that the US was involved in the retaking of the islands, that US combat troops deployed and lost their lives in the Falklands and that "Britain would never have taken the islands back without [US] intervention".

Which I found quite baffling.No danger. I know loads of people who served there, some of them in the field headquarters and some of them were on the islands weeks before the task force arrived. If there were US forces there I'm sure I would have heard whispers at least.

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[Haymaker]

No danger. I know loads of people who served there, some of them in the field headquarters and some of them were on the islands weeks before the task force arrived. If there were US forces there I'm sure I would have heard whispers at least.

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It was, as I said, baffling. They wouldn't accept otherwise either.

[Hibrandenburg]

It was, as I said, baffling. They wouldn't accept otherwise either.There were some rumours that there were American mercenaries advising and fighting for the Argentinians, but I don't think they were ever substantiated.



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[hibby rae]

There were some rumours that there were American mercenaries advising and fighting for the Argentinians, but I don't think they were ever substantiated.



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Yeah Ken Lukowiak mentions it in A Soldier Song. I read another account of it too.

The story was 3 Spanish speaking Americans were captured, can't remember if it was Goose Green or Wireless Ridge, and they were very complimentary towards 2 Para. The platoon commander radios back to inform battalion HQ, and an order came back saying they can't have US POWs. So a sgt took them away and that is how the rumour ends

[hibby rae]

The recent doc on Channel 4 is well worth a watch. The SAS commander speaks for the first time and it outlines the bad decisions that have been overlooked and how lucky Britain was at times.

[degenerated]

The recent doc on Channel 4 is well worth a watch. The SAS commander speaks for the first time and it outlines the bad decisions that have been overlooked and how lucky Britain was at times.I watched that. He seemed far from impressed with the guy leading the 5th infantry brigade.

[hibby rae]

I watched that. He seemed far from impressed with the guy leading the 5th infantry brigade.

Yeah my brother mentioned criticism of their inclusion before. There's a theory it was a political move to include Guards regiments, rather than other units, even though they weren't prepared having been on ceremonial duty before the invasion.

I though the doc made a good argument that the Paras and RM should have been given the chance to make a dash for Stanley from the off with no halts.