Pele and Garrincha were rubbish (NHc)

[FilipinoHibs]

Early laptop manager got it wrong:

João Carvalhaes: Football's psychology pioneer and his role in 1958 World Cup win - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60794962

[Groathillgrump]

Early laptop manager got it wrong:

João Carvalhaes: Football's psychology pioneer and his role in 1958 World Cup win - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60794962

Good read that.

Carvalhaes obviously split opinions with his methods but compared to Rima, the former Hearts therapist with the golden sticks, he sounds quite sane. :greengrin

[Fuzzywuzzy]

In fairness, pumping goats is bound to affect your game

[Viva_Palmeiras]

My father in law who saw both play live rated Garrincha above Pele.
Although somewhat contradictory he did also call Pele the greatest and O Rei (the King). it’s a Brazilian thing :)

[Mick O'Rourke]

My father in law who saw both play live rated Garrincha above Pele.
Although somewhat contradictory he did also call Pele the greatest and O Rei (the King). it’s a Brazilian thing :)


Older football fans in my family,older cousins and uncles spoke highly of Garrincha.
And yet back then there was no wall to wall football on tv for them to see some of these greats.
When names get bandied about like Messi ,Ronaldo, Best, Cryuff, Beckenbaur et al
Two i usually note are not always mentioned
Eusebio,The Black Pearl, and the man who certainly deserves to be called a football genius ,Garrincha (Little Bird)
Off the field, too!

Lots on youtube on Garrincha if interested.
Fascinating guy.

[CentreLine]

I have a friend who played alongside both and he tells me Garrincha was a wizard on the pitch, superb player and entertainer. But Pele was king.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I wasn’t around to have seen Garrincha, or Pele for that matter, but I long for the days before saturation football coverage, the exotic world cups every four years with these players who may as well have been from another planet with the flicks and tricks and skills that we hadn’t seen before..

[Mick O'Rourke]

I wasn’t around to have seen Garrincha, or Pele for that matter, but I long for the days before saturation football coverage, the exotic world cups every four years with these players who may as well have been from another planet with the flicks and tricks and skills that we hadn’t seen before..

I know what you mean.
I remember as a 14 year old looking forward to seeing Pele at the 1966 World Cup, only for him to be kicked 6 feet in the air every time he got the ball.
Now that tournament brought for the first time to many a Portuguese player named Eusebio.
Could he play football and score goals !
Top scorer in that tourney with 9 goals.
4 in a remarkable match against North Korea,who led 3-0 to then go down 3-5.
He was a favourite of Pele,too

[CJHibby]

Que loucura 😃

[Iggy Pope]

I have a friend who played alongside both and he tells me Garrincha was a wizard on the pitch, superb player and entertainer. But Pele was king.

Cmon CentreLine, whose your friend? Intrigued.

[hibsbollah]

Cmon CentreLine, whose your friend? Intrigued.

Me too. Must be a narrow list. Brasíl 1958-66. Zozimo ?

[CentreLine]

Cmon CentreLine, whose your friend? Intrigued.

He’s 85 years of age and is Carlos Vallim Filho. Played as striker with São Paulo against Pele with arch rivals Santos. Never made the dizzy heights of the national team but his captain was Bellini, who lifted the 1958 World Cup as national team captain. All before I was born. Real gentleman who left football to work with Mercedes in Europe.

Edited. Too much information.

[Hibbyradge]

I have a friend who played alongside both and he tells me Garrincha was a wizard on the pitch, superb player and entertainer. But Pele was king.

A bit like Latapy and Sauzee.

[Mick O'Rourke]

He’s 85 years of age and is Carlos Vallim Filho. Played as striker with São Paulo against Pele with arch rivals Santos. Never made the dizzy heights of the national team but his captain was Bellini, who lifted the 1958 World Cup as national team captain. All before I was born. Real gentleman who left football to work with Mercedes in Europe.

Edited. Too much information.

When he went to Mercedes FC, could he still Benz ze ball? :greengrin

Brazil played us at Hampden in 1966.
A "warm up" game for them playing in World Cup in England that Summer.
Seems Garrincha was left out for that game.
Nice picture of him in link below,doing autographs at airport.

I think it was the first time the Scotland National team played them.
Although Hibernian of course took football to Brazil many years earlier !:greengrin

Good report here
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/18545475.1066-scotland-welcomes-boys-brazil/

Nice local story/picture of Pele here

https://www.nutmegmagazine.co.uk/issue-2/peles-hampden-nightmare/

[CentreLine]

When he went to Mercedes FC, could he still Benz ze ball? :greengrin

Brazil played us at Hampden in 1966.
A "warm up" game for them playing in World Cup in England that Summer.
Seems Garrincha was left out for that game.
Nice picture of him in link below,doing autographs at airport.

I think it was the first time the Scotland National team played them.
Although Hibernian of course took football to Brazil many years earlier !:greengrin

Good report here
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/18545475.1066-scotland-welcomes-boys-brazil/

Nice local story/picture of Pele here

https://www.nutmegmagazine.co.uk/issue-2/peles-hampden-nightmare/

🤣 I think he could probably still Benze ball today. More than I could say for myself 20 years younger than Carlos.
Just a shame we sometimes have to justify our comments on a forum. I probably should have left it in respect to my friend.
Anyhooo. It’s your brother who was my hero so I was always going to laugh at your bad joke. 👍🏻

[Hibernian Verse]

🤣 I think he could probably still Benze ball today. More than I could say for myself 20 years younger than Carlos.
Just a shame we sometimes have to justify our comments on a forum. I probably should have left it in respect to my friend.
Anyhooo. It’s your brother who was my hero so I was always going to laugh at your bad joke. 👍🏻

I don't think people wanted you to justify yourself, I'd bet they were just genuinely intrigued as it's a great story :agree:

[FilipinoHibs]

interestingly Garrincha had a low IQ (low 70s), was an alcoholic and had one leg longer than the other by 6cm. After the 1958 world cup final, he did not realise Brasil were world champions, he thought there was a second leg

[Hibbyradge]

https://youtu.be/e4fzeK3SQa4

[superfurryhibby]

🤣 I think he could probably still Benze ball today. More than I could say for myself 20 years younger than Carlos.
Just a shame we sometimes have to justify our comments on a forum. I probably should have left it in respect to my friend.
Anyhooo. It’s your brother who was my hero so I was always going to laugh at your bad joke. 👍🏻


You made an interesting post, people responded....appropriately. It’s not everyday we get a poster who knows someone who played against Brazilian greats. I’m sure your friend would respect the interest in himself and other players who retired half a century or more ago.

Relax and don’t fret about it. This board is pretty respectful and cool to guys like Mick O’ and Brog, who know ex players and share wee bits of insight into them and their playing days.

[Iggy Pope]

He’s 85 years of age and is Carlos Vallim Filho. Played as striker with São Paulo against Pele with arch rivals Santos. Never made the dizzy heights of the national team but his captain was Bellini, who lifted the 1958 World Cup as national team captain. All before I was born. Real gentleman who left football to work with Mercedes in Europe.

Edited. Too much information.

Marvellous stuff what an interesting fellah he must be with some stories.
I was genuinely interested and I’m glad you replied.
:aok:

[Mick O'Rourke]

Marvellous stuff what an interesting fellah he must be with some stories.
I was genuinely interested and I’m glad you replied.
:aok:


I could not find the documentary on utube i saw of Garrincha many years ago .
He really was a fascinating guy, on and off the field.... 14 bairns !!
He might have had a short leg,but it didn't stop him getting it over !

His own footballl squad and thats not counting the loanees :greengrin

Am sure his life story must have been a subject of a Brazilian film
Cheers to Filipino for raising this and Centreline for his personal connections.

[stu in nottingham]

I could not find the documentary on utube i saw of Garrincha many years ago .
He really was a fascinating guy, on and off the field.... 14 bairns !!
He might have had a short leg,but it didn't stop him getting it over !

His own footballl squad and thats not counting the loanees :greengrin

Am sure his life story must have been a subject of a Brazilian film
Cheers to Filipino for raising this and Centreline for his personal connections.

I've seen that Mick and it was a great watch.

Can't remember if it was this one.

Fascinating story - what an entertainer!

Garrincha - The Genius of Dribble (parts 1 & 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApMH14H4Cdg&ab_channel=Emanuelpereira

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQvumdap8BM&ab_channel=Emanuelpereira

[superfurryhibby]

I could not find the documentary on utube i saw of Garrincha many years ago .
He really was a fascinating guy, on and off the field.... 14 bairns !!
He might have had a short leg,but it didn't stop him getting it over !i

His own footballl squad and thats not counting the loanees :greengrin

Am sure his life story must have been a subject of a Brazilian film
Cheers to Filipino for raising this and Centreline for his personal connections.

Laugh our loud moment.

Garrincha kent how to find the back of the net.

[CJHibby]

A case of, it doesn't matter if you have a short leg..it's what you do with it eh? 😁

[Mick O'Rourke]

Laugh our loud moment.

Garrincha kent how to find the back of the net.


:greengrin

[Mick O'Rourke]

A case of, it doesn't matter if you have a short leg..it's what you do with it eh? 😁

In case the "leg over" comments are confusing anyone .
Garrincha was born with one leg shorter than the other .

Some say it was one leg longer than the other .

But thats just semantics :greengrin

[brog]

When he went to Mercedes FC, could he still Benz ze ball? :greengrin

Brazil played us at Hampden in 1966.
A "warm up" game for them playing in World Cup in England that Summer.
Seems Garrincha was left out for that game.
Nice picture of him in link below,doing autographs at airport.

I think it was the first time the Scotland National team played them.
Although Hibernian of course took football to Brazil many years earlier !:greengrin

Good report here
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/18545475.1066-scotland-welcomes-boys-brazil/

Nice local story/picture of Pele here

https://www.nutmegmagazine.co.uk/issue-2/peles-hampden-nightmare/

IIRC Mick, Peter Cormack earned his 1st Scotland cap in that Brazil game. He was in awe of Pele's ability and athleticism.

[Mick O'Rourke]

IIRC Mick, Peter Cormack earned his 1st Scotland cap in tgat Brazil game. He was in awe of Pele's ability and athleticism.

Indeed Brian ,a real high moment in Peter's career.
But would he be in awe?
Having previously faced the might of Real Madrid, Puskas,Gento et al... A few motley Brazilians widnae huv fazed Peter oot !:greengrin
He had a good debut,too.
In fact,all round ,reading back the reports,we played..er sorry,kicked them off the park !!

12 months later,in a scintillating display of football,we destroyed the World Champs,Engurland 3-2 on their own hallowed turf in North London,which we promptly brought home with us.
Not North London ... the turf !

Two World Cup winning sides couldnae beat Wee Scotland !

[Mick O'Rourke]

I've seen that Mick and it was a great watch.

Can't remember if it was this one.

Fascinating story - what an entertainer!

Garrincha - The Genius of Dribble (parts 1 & 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApMH14H4Cdg&ab_channel=Emanuelpereira

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQvumdap8BM&ab_channel=Emanuelpereira



:aok:
Anyone scrolling the thread,Stu's links here are a must watch.
A mesmerising football magician.

[hibsbollah]

He’s 85 years of age and is Carlos Vallim Filho. Played as striker with São Paulo against Pele with arch rivals Santos. Never made the dizzy heights of the national team but his captain was Bellini, who lifted the 1958 World Cup as national team captain. All before I was born. Real gentleman who left football to work with Mercedes in Europe.

Edited. Too much information.

Wow that's a great story:agree:

[CentreLine]

I don't think people wanted you to justify yourself, I'd bet they were just genuinely intrigued as it's a great story :agree:

Yeh. Wrote that with a hangover. You’re absolutely right. Nothing sinister there at all and I apologise

[CentreLine]

Marvellous stuff what an interesting fellah he must be with some stories.
I was genuinely interested and I’m glad you replied.
:aok:

👍🏻 Fascinating guy for sure.

[brog]

Indeed Brian ,a real high moment in Peter's career.
But would he be in awe?
Having previously faced the might of Real Madrid, Puskas,Gento et al... A few motley Brazilians widnae huv fazed Peter oot !:greengrin
He had a good debut,too.
In fact,all round ,reading back the reports,we played..er sorry,kicked them off the park !!

12 months later,in a scintillating display of football,we destroyed the World Champs,Engurland 3-2 on their own hallowed turf in North London,which we promptly brought home with us.
Not North London ... the turf !

Two World Cup winning sides couldnae beat Wee Scotland !

You're correct of course Mick, Peter was only 19 or 20 but played a blinder. What I heard though, and it may have been from James, was that everyone knew about Pele's skills and his pure genius. What Peter appreciated up close was that Pele was an astonishing physical specimen and he used his body strength to bounce off tackles. Of course as you said earlier it didn't help him when Portugal kicked him off the park only for Portugal to get the same treatment in the semi from Stiles!

[Hibbyradge]

You're correct of course Mick, Peter was only 19 or 20 but played a blinder. What I heard though, and it may have been from James, was that everyone knew about Pele's skills and his pure genius. What Peter appreciated up close was that Pele was an astonishing physical specimen and he used his body strength to bounce off tackles. Of course as you said earlier it didn't help him when Portugal kicked him off the park only for Portugal to get the same treatment in the semi from Stiles!

Did Roy Barry play with Hibs in Brazil?

He told me that they had incredibly strong physiques which was unheard of at the time in the UK.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Did Roy Barry play with Hibs in Brazil?

He told me that they had incredibly strong physiques which was unheard of at the time in the UK.

Roy played at Hibs for one season,mid 1970s.
I dont think we did an educational tour of South America then :greengrin


Roy however,when at Coventry City,faced Pele's team Santos on a pre season tour in Thailand 1972.
Another Scotsman,Willie Carr,also played in the same game.

A little info regards this game on the following link

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-brazil-pele-santos-18056898

[FilipinoHibs]

Great biography if you can get a copy:

https://www.amazon.com/Garrincha-Triumph-Tragedy-Forgotten-Footballing/dp/0224092197

My father's family were from Minas Gerais and were coffee farmers. They moved to Sao Paulo State and had an enormous coffee plantation. My great,great, great uncle was commissioned by the Brasilian government to build a railroad from the plantations to the coast to export the coffee. The port became Santos after our family name and coffee beans too. Scottish engineers came to work on the railroad who are credited with brining football to Brazil. So we are firmly Santos and Pele fans but loved Garrincha to.

[nonshinyfinish]

Great biography if you can get a copy:

https://www.amazon.com/Garrincha-Triumph-Tragedy-Forgotten-Footballing/dp/0224092197

Agree a really good read. IIRC the translator is a Hibby.

I don't think it's hard to find in the UK (your link is US Amazon where it appears to be rare/expensive). Used copies for normal prices here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garrincha-Triumph-Tragedy-Forgotten-Footballing/dp/0224092197

[Hibbyradge]

Roy played at Hibs for one season,mid 1970s.
I dont think we did an educational tour of South America then :greengrin


Roy however,when at Coventry City,faced Pele's team Santos on a pre season tour in Thailand 1972.
Another Scotsman,Willie Carr,also played in the same game.

A little info regards this game on the following link

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-brazil-pele-santos-18056898

That's right. I just asked him. 😁

[Mick O'Rourke]

That's right. I just asked him. ��
Let him know us older supporters thought he did a good job in the short time he played for us.
Even though he did play for them before us !

In 1968,me a 16yr old,was at Hampden and saw him lift the Scottish Cup for Dunferrmline alongside the future Tornado, Alex Edwards.
What a Pars side that was.

[brog]

That's right. I just asked him. 😁

D, if you're in regular touch with Roy tell him his old London taxi mate, Alec from Romania, says hello!

[brog]

Let him know us older supporters thought he did a good job in the short time he played for us.
Even though he did play for them before us !

In 1968,me a 16yr old,was at Hampden and saw him lift the Scottish Cup for Dunferrmline alongside the future Tornado, Alex Edwards.
What a Pars side that was.

I was playing in a cup semi final on The Links that day. Many celebrations when score came through!

[Mick O'Rourke]

I was playing in a cup semi final on The Links that day. Many celebrations when score came through!

:greengrin

[brog]

Garrincha running in 3.58 at Wetherby today! Currently 6/1.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Garrincha running in 3.58 at Wetherby today! Currently 6/1.
How very strange

Go ,Little Bird !!!

:cb :kbacker:

[Pagan Hibernia]

I wish one of you two would change your avatar… it looks like one person chatting away to himself! :greengrin

[Green Reaper]

How very strange

Go ,Little Bird !!!

:cb :kbacker:
Came in 3rd at 5/1

[Mick O'Rourke]

I wish one of you two would change your avatar… it looks like one person chatting away to himself! :greengrin


I would replace, but like Shaun,i will have to wait for the next window.
Possibly go for Gerry Baker,Willie Hamilton or The Mighty Quinn :wink:

[Mick O'Rourke]

Came in 3rd at 5/1

Yes, I have the racing channel. I dont watch much,though,but i watched that race seeing that Brog mentioned Garrincha.

It had one leg shorter than the other three!


Just like the Hi Bees,though ..... Near,but yet so far.

[Hibiza]

In fairness, pumping goats is bound to affect your game

Is a goat an upgrade on a sheep ?

[Hibbyradge]

D, if you're in regular touch with Roy tell him his old London taxi mate, Alec from Romania, says hello!

I will 👍

[Hibbyradge]

D, if you're in regular touch with Roy tell him his old London taxi mate, Alec from Romania, says hello!

He says he's lost your phone number and can he have it again.

Edit: I'll PM you.