Meanwhile, in Yemen…

[hibsbollah]

…the Saudis seem to be getting away with it.

https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/yemen-crisis

[Jones28]

…the Saudis seem to be getting away with it.

https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/yemen-crisis

I hope we send them a very sternly worded arms invoice.

[Keith_M]

It is quite disturbing that so many countries are... rightly... outraged at what Putin is doing in the Ukraine but at the same time so willing to turn a blind eye to other atrocities.

The UK, US and Germany, among others, make massive fortunes providing the oppressors of Yemen with arms, and make no mention of the suffering of the Palestinians.

Poland has opened it's border to Ukrainian refugees yet blankly refused to accept any innocent people fleeing similar atrocities in Syria.

[hibsbollah]

That nice Amanda Stavely would never represent a regime who carpet bomb women and children, she’s got such a winning smile :dunno:

https://reliefweb.int/report/yemen/civilian-deaths-and-injuries-yemen-startling-escalation-global-leaders-turn-attention

[hibsbollah]

Angelina Jolie putting her snowflakey , virtue signalling oar in

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/angelina-jolie-yemen-ukraine-refugees-b2030272.html%3famp

Opinion piece
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/ukraine-palestinians-kashmir-yemen/

[WhileTheChief..]

It is quite disturbing that so many countries are... rightly... outraged at what Putin is doing in the Ukraine but at the same time so willing to turn a blind eye to other atrocities.

The UK, US and Germany, among others, make massive fortunes providing the oppressors of Yemen with arms, and make no mention of the suffering of the Palestinians.

Poland has opened it's border to Ukrainian refugees yet blankly refused to accept any innocent people fleeing similar atrocities in Syria.


Why should Poland come under this scrutiny?

They are helping their closest neighbour and will have friends and family living there so it's pretty obvious why they would help. What's their connection with Syria?

What about Peru, or Chile, or Chad, or Malaysia, or South Africa?

Did they blankly refuse to take folk from Syria too?

[Paul1642]

Why should Poland come under this scrutiny?

They are helping their closest neighbour and will have friends and family living there so it's pretty obvious why they would help. What's their connection with Syria?

What about Peru, or Chile, or Chad, or Malaysia, or South Africa?

Did they blankly refuse to take folk from Syria too?

It’s simple geography. Is there was a humanitarian crisis in Ireland, Norway or England we would end up with a huge amount.

[JeMeSouviens]

Why should Poland come under this scrutiny?

They are helping their closest neighbour and will have friends and family living there so it's pretty obvious why they would help. What's their connection with Syria?

What about Peru, or Chile, or Chad, or Malaysia, or South Africa?

Did they blankly refuse to take folk from Syria too?

They participated in the US led Iraq invasion 2003 and in the anti-ISIS airstrikes in Syria from 2016:

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Photos/igphoto/2001740145/

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s simple geography. Is there was a humanitarian crisis in Ireland, Norway or England we would end up with a huge amount.

Exactly.

To be somehow trying to blame Poland for not taking Syrian refugees just doesn't make sense.

[JeMeSouviens]

Exactly.

To be somehow trying to blame Poland for not taking Syrian refugees just doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure if you're playing dumb here? But the EU came up with a plan to fairly distribute refugees across the member states in response to huge numbers arriving in Italy and Greece, the majority from Syria. Poland was one of the countries that refused to accept any.

[WhileTheChief..]

Poland are doing the right thing by Ukraine. That's what matters here.

What's the Syria situation got to do with it?

[JeMeSouviens]

Poland are doing the right thing by Ukraine. That's what matters here.

What's the Syria situation got to do with it?

Umm, going out on a limb, but isn't the entire point of this thread to call out double standards, Ukraine vs the middle east? :confused:

(I'm not sure there are really double standards in fact. Call me cynical but I think the US/UK/EU MS are acting in what they perceive as their own strategic interests in both cases.)

[lord bunberry]

Umm, going out on a limb, but isn't the entire point of this thread to call out double standards, Ukraine vs the middle east? :confused:

(I'm not sure there are really double standards in fact. Call me cynical but I think the US/UK/EU MS are acting in what they perceive as their own strategic interests in both cases.)

I think it’s only natural that people in this country are more concerned about what’s happening in Europe than the Middle East, it’s a war that could spill over into a much wider conflict. What is double standards is the response from governments around the world, the sanctions imposed on Russia aren’t being applied to Saudi Arabia.


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[JeMeSouviens]

I think it’s only natural that people in this country are more concerned about what’s happening in Europe than the Middle East, it’s a war that could spill over into a much wider conflict. What is double standards is the response from governments around the world, the sanctions imposed on Russia aren’t being applied to Saudi Arabia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. Plus there's a "closer to home" effect. Ukrainian society is much more like ours than the middle east, if a bit less diverse.

2nd part though, I don't think it is double standards, unless you accept at face value that the UK/US etc are standing up for democracy/freedom/blah. I think that's a bit naive. In the middle east they are using the proxy-war in Yemen (sunni-shia conflict with Saudi and Iran backed sides) to keep Iran in their box. In Ukraine, they are giving military assistance and sanctioning Russia to keep Putin in his box. In both places, strategic interest far outweighs any humanitarian concern, imo.

[WhileTheChief..]

Are you meaning double standards with regards to the conflict or refugees?

I don't know enough about Yemem to really comment. I thought Saudi were trying to help the government get back into power in place of the Houthi rebels?

Should the world be sanctioning Saudi Arabia?

[JeMeSouviens]

Are you meaning double standards with regards to the conflict or refugees?

I don't know enough about Yemem to really comment. I thought Saudi were trying to help the government get back into power in place of the Houthi rebels?

Should the world be sanctioning Saudi Arabia?

Well, that's the question, isn't it? They are helping the govt by bombing the **** out of people. If Putin had pushed on in 2014 to prop up the Yanukovych govt* in Ukraine by bombing the **** out of them, would you have then supported him?


* democratically elected.

[hibsbollah]

Well, that's the question, isn't it? They are helping the govt by bombing the **** out of people. If Putin had pushed on in 2014 to prop up the Yanukovych govt* in Ukraine by bombing the **** out of them, would you have then supported him?


* democratically elected.

The complaint is when we are taught to make an assessment on who is the aggressor and who is the victim in some cases, but then you apply false objectivity in other cases, the Yemen or in Palestine. It’s not just strategically picking and choosing sides, it’s ignoring fundamental human rights breaches/genoicidal behaviour. You can say it’s ‘naive’ to believe our decisions are based on morality, but that’s what we are told they are based on :dunno: I’d be rightly condemned on here if I suggested we leave Ukraine to its fate because it’s not in our strategic interest.

[JeMeSouviens]

The complaint is when we are taught to make an assessment on who is the aggressor and who is the victim in some cases, but then you apply false objectivity in other cases, the Yemen or in Palestine. It’s not just strategically picking and choosing sides, it’s ignoring fundamental human rights breaches/genoicidal behaviour. You can say it’s ‘naive’ to believe our decisions are based on morality, but that’s what we are told they are based on :dunno: I’d be rightly condemned on here if I suggested we leave Ukraine to its fate because it’s not in our strategic interest.

To a large extent, we *are* leaving Ukraine to its fate because it's not in our strategic interest.

[hibsbollah]

To a large extent, we *are* leaving Ukraine to its fate because it's not in our strategic interest.

Not really, 'we' are part of a unprecedented sanctions regime across large parts of the world's national economies, and more importantly all the worlds corporate structures against Russia, against which it is highly unlikely that country is going to emerge successful.

The Yemen has Malificient and Palestine has Hermione and Maxine Peake posting a few tweets.

[JeMeSouviens]

Not really, 'we' are part of a unprecedented sanctions regime across large parts of the world's national economies, and more importantly all the worlds corporate structures against Russia, against which it is highly unlikely that country is going to emerge successful.

The Yemen has Malificient and Palestine has Hermione and Maxine Peake posting a few tweets.

"Our" strategy is to contain Putin: we've allowed him to get away with Georgia and Crimea/Donbass and do what he likes internally, prop up Lukashenko etc. It's only when he threatens to break out of that containment that we do something and that's strictly on our terms, we're not rocking up with infantry divisions moral crusade style.

"Our" strategy in the middle east is largely to constrain Iran. To do that we have to prop up Israel and turn a blind eye to the excesses of the Saudis in Yemen or in sponsoring Islamic militants come to that.

[Betty Boop]

Brown lives don't matter.

[hibsbollah]

"Our" strategy is to contain Putin: we've allowed him to get away with Georgia and Crimea/Donbass and do what he likes internally, prop up Lukashenko etc. It's only when he threatens to break out of that containment that we do something and that's strictly on our terms, we're not rocking up with infantry divisions moral crusade style.

"Our" strategy in the middle east is largely to constrain Iran. To do that we have to prop up Israel and turn a blind eye to the excesses of the Saudis in Yemen or in sponsoring Islamic militants come to that.

Obvious questions then 1. When those strategies are so blatantly partial, are they sensible strategies ? Don’t they cause more problems than they solve? And 2. Should we even bother talking about morality, if only a naive person would ever buy those beans in the first place?

[JeMeSouviens]

Obvious questions then 1. When those strategies are so blatantly partial, are they sensible strategies ? Don’t they cause more problems than they solve? And 2. Should we even bother talking about morality, if only a naive person would ever buy those beans in the first place?

1. Bearing in mind that previous attempts to contain Russia and Iran involved arming/training the Mujahadeen that went on to form the core of al-Qa’eda and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq I’d say yes, they very well might. :rolleyes:

2. Good question. It’s not like it’s a new thing. Historically we enlisted the church to tell the punters war was what God wanted.

[hibsbollah]

. Historically we enlisted the church to tell the punters war was what God wanted.

Call Of Duty does that now :agree:

[WhileTheChief..]

24 posts just.

Nobody really cares about Yemen, or what is happening there.

If they do, why is no-one posting about it?

[MKHIBEE]

Umm, going out on a limb, but isn't the entire point of this thread to call out double standards, Ukraine vs the middle east? :confused:

(I'm not sure there are really double standards in fact. Call me cynical but I think the US/UK/EU MS are acting in what they perceive as their own strategic interests in both cases.)

Which could also be applied to Russia

[Keith_M]

I'm not sure if you're playing dumb here? But the EU came up with a plan to fairly distribute refugees across the member states in response to huge numbers arriving in Italy and Greece, the majority from Syria. Poland was one of the countries that refused to accept any.


:agree:


They accepted a tiny number, on condition they were Christian.

I already said I admire what Poalnd is doing for Ukranian refugees. I was using it as an example of a country... among many others... that seems to have incredibly different standards to death and suffering based on where it's taking place.

[Keith_M]

If Chelsea, why not Newcastle United?


Shouldn't someone in football also care about the war in Yemen just a little (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/11/shouldnt-someone-in-football-also-care-about-the-war-in-yemen-just-a-little)

[Radium]

Saudi Arabia has beheaded 81 people in a mass execution.

Is it too cynical to suggest that they are taking the opportunity to bury the news and flex their oil wealth to anyone who complains

https://twitter.com/reprieve/status/1502671106536263688?s=21


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[hibsbollah]

Over 11 million in urgent need of humanitarian assistance.

https://www.unicef.org.uk/donate/yemen/?gclid=CjwKCAjwoduRBhA4EiwACL5RPzNtRHNj9FuACl927uR MCNNUOVjzlGUcSIaD1rC73etJtaSCfdIEjRoCsz0QAvD_BwE

[hibsbollah]

Im completely behind all the comprehensive Russian sanctions, however, upcoming Saudi Grand Prix appears to be sanction proof…

[Scorrie]

Im completely behind all the comprehensive Russian sanctions, however, upcoming Saudi Grand Prix appears to be sanction proof…

Lewis Hamilton being asked by a tortured Saudi prisoner’s family to make a stance apparently.

[Keith_M]

Im completely behind all the comprehensive Russian sanctions, however, upcoming Saudi Grand Prix appears to be sanction proof…


I presume this attack on a Saudi oil storage facility near Jeddah was purposely chosen as it would garner the attention of the international press.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/world/middleeast/yemen-attack-saudi-arabia.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/60880598

[hibsbollah]

I presume this attack on a Saudi oil storage facility near Jeddah was purposely chosen as it would garner the attention of the international press.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/world/middleeast/yemen-attack-saudi-arabia.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/60880598

Good for them. Theres no room for moral objectivity in this case, as in Palestine or Ukraine or many other places. Where there’s a power imbalance there’s usually no ‘two sides’, just oppressor and oppressed.

[jacomo]

24 posts just.

Nobody really cares about Yemen, or what is happening there.

If they do, why is no-one posting about it?


I don’t think anyone knows what to do.

This is a sectarian conflict and proxy war between Saudi and Iran. This makes it both extremely complex and brings into question the West’s actions in the Middle East, particularly over the past 20 years.

It’s an intractable mess that we’ve made worse. UK-made weapons are being used to terrorise civilians, which makes it worse.

I think a lot of people give up because thinking about it just causes despair. I know I’m in this camp.