SNP are lying b******s as well !

[neil7908]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/oct/27/backlash-after-elon-musk-labels-scottish-first-minister-humza-yousaf-racist

Musk having a pop at Yousaf. Commenting on a post that said “Why would Scotland’s parliament and King select a guy who hates almost 100% of the country?”.

🙄🙄🙄🙄

I suspect this will only be beneficial to Yousaf. When you are being attacked by an idiot who know nothing about Scotland, hiding behind an account called End Wokeness, and an out of touch billionaire who resembles a bad Bond villain more and more each day, you must be doing something right.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/oct/27/backlash-after-elon-musk-labels-scottish-first-minister-humza-yousaf-racist

Musk having a pop at Yousaf. Commenting on a post that said “Why would Scotland’s parliament and King select a guy who hates almost 100% of the country?”.

🙄🙄🙄🙄

I suspect this will only be beneficial to Yousaf. When you are being attacked by an idiot who know nothing about Scotland, hiding behind an account called End Wokeness, and an out of touch billionaire who resembles a bad Bond villain more and more each day, you must be doing something right.

I don't think I'll click to see what kind of stuff endwokeness posts jeezo Elon really is the dumbest genius that has ever been, total clown

[grunt]

Surprise!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9hiJJeaMAA36x7?format=png&name=medium

[weecounty hibby]

She will fit in perfectly. Glad to see the back of her

[marinello59]

She will fit in perfectly. Glad to see the back of her

I’m guessing the 10% of SNP members who backed her as leader won’t be so pleased. Or her constituents who voted SNP but got Alba. I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than getting Tory though. :greengrin

[J-C]

Surprise!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9hiJJeaMAA36x7?format=png&name=medium

I watched some of the leadership discussions on TV at the time, Regan came off as a bit out there and ready for a nasty fight rather than trying to act like a leader.

[Stairway 2 7]

After everyone calling Sunak a criminal and a liar for saying he deleted WhatsApps, I'm surprised no one is concerned about the SNP doing the same.

Humza today says it was government policy to delete WhatsApps off government phones, but that is against government rules they must be recorded. Yousaf today said he didn't delete them all and he can pass them on
https://twitter.com/Sandeshgulhane/status/1718898471791407370

In August 21 journalist asked Sturgeon if she would hand WhatsApps to enquiry, she said there was no option to not. They appear to have been deleted after this point
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d03c7004-7686-11ee-9496-ba645d21d0d9?shareToken=7179b504503455a6988badfef2 9b40e6

[grunt]

After everyone calling Sunak a criminal and a liar for saying he deleted WhatsApps, I'm surprised no one is concerned about the SNP doing the same.
I'm concerned. But I don't believe most of what is reported in the Scottish print press and on BBC Scotland, so I'll sit on my concern until believable evidence is provided. I'm certainly not going to panic based on anything that the fool Gulhane says, or the Times in Scotland.

[grunt]

Ha! How slow am I?? Just realised Ash Regan is my MSP, so I'm now represented by an Alba MSP. :brickwall

[Ozyhibby]

After everyone calling Sunak a criminal and a liar for saying he deleted WhatsApps, I'm surprised no one is concerned about the SNP doing the same.

Humza today says it was government policy to delete WhatsApps off government phones, but that is against government rules they must be recorded. Yousaf today said he didn't delete them all and he can pass them on
https://twitter.com/Sandeshgulhane/status/1718898471791407370

In August 21 journalist asked Sturgeon if she would hand WhatsApps to enquiry, she said there was no option to not. They appear to have been deleted after this point
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d03c7004-7686-11ee-9496-ba645d21d0d9?shareToken=7179b504503455a6988badfef2 9b40e6

Given that the charge against the SG is that they were too cautious I’m not overly worried about how they became too cautious.
I agree that there does need to be rules on the use of what’s app but I’m not sure if that should include everything being recorded. If that happens they will just use another method of comms. They might even start actually talking to each other.
It’s the actual decisions that should be under the microscope not how they got there.
There appears to be no specific allegation of wrong doing by the SG other than they may or may or may not have used what’s app to chat to each other?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

After everyone calling Sunak a criminal and a liar for saying he deleted WhatsApps, I'm surprised no one is concerned about the SNP doing the same.

Humza today says it was government policy to delete WhatsApps off government phones, but that is against government rules they must be recorded. Yousaf today said he didn't delete them all and he can pass them on
https://twitter.com/Sandeshgulhane/status/1718898471791407370

In August 21 journalist asked Sturgeon if she would hand WhatsApps to enquiry, she said there was no option to not. They appear to have been deleted after this point
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d03c7004-7686-11ee-9496-ba645d21d0d9?shareToken=7179b504503455a6988badfef2 9b40e6

The whole thing stinks. Surely Sturgeon hasn’t deleted her messages after promising to hand them over.

[grunt]

There appears to be no specific allegation of wrong doing by the SG other than they may or may or may not have used what’s app to chat to each other?
Innuendo. It's what the unionist media and their faithful followers thrive on.

Perhaps the WhatsApp discussions were all about how Nicola was going to make off with the £600k from the SNP coffers.

[Stairway 2 7]

Given that the charge against the SG is that they were too cautious I’m not overly worried about how they became too cautious.
I agree that there does need to be rules on the use of what’s app but I’m not sure if that should include everything being recorded. If that happens they will just use another method of comms. They might even start actually talking to each other.
It’s the actual decisions that should be under the microscope not how they got there.
There appears to be no specific allegation of wrong doing by the SG other than they may or may or may not have used what’s app to chat to each other?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No we have no idea what's on any WhatsApps. What about decisions to send old folk from hospital to homes without bothering to test them Freeman apologised but who made the decisions, we'll never know.

We didn't know what Rishi said in his but if you go back on the tories thread you'll see people saying he should be locked up for not providing his WhatsApps, he said he'd deleted them people said that is a disgusting excuse. It is

There are clear rules that WhatsApps should be recorded. Sturgeon said so herself then deleted them post this.

It's not what's on them it's deleting evidence. Hold who you support to the same standards as you oppose

[Stairway 2 7]

Innuendo. It's what the unionist media and their faithful followers thrive on.

Perhaps the WhatsApp discussions were all about how Nicola was going to make off with the £600k from the SNP coffers.

The Unionists media went much harder on Boris and Sunak when they weren't handing over their WhatsApps or saying they were deleted. It was all over the news constantly, people said deleting something so important was criminal

[marinello59]

The Unionists media went much harder on Boris and Sunak when they weren't handing over their WhatsApps or saying they were deleted. It was all over the news constantly, people said deleting something so important was criminal

:agree:
This is nothing to do with the constitution and everything to do with politicians doing the right thing. It looks like ministers and officials in both Governments failed to do so. Thoroughly depressing.

[Ozyhibby]

No we have no idea what's on any WhatsApps. What about decisions to send old folk from hospital to homes without bothering to test them Freeman apologised but who made the decisions, we'll never know.

We didn't know what Rishi said in his but if you go back on the tories thread you'll see people saying he should be locked up for not providing his WhatsApps, he said he'd deleted them people said that is a disgusting excuse. It is

There are clear rules that WhatsApps should be recorded. Sturgeon said so herself then deleted them post this.

It's not what's on them it's deleting evidence. Hold who you support to the same standards as you oppose

Are there clear rules on What’s app? I don’t think there are, which is why we are where we are now.

As for the care home issue, why is you think we will never know? Do you know this was decided on a what’s app group? Is it possible that there may be emails, clinical evidence, testimony from those involved, civil servants, clinicians etc. Saying we will never know is overstating things a touch? Yousaf’s what’s app’s have been made available. He was health sec so surely they would contain any crucial chat that was going on? Unlikely he was left out of much?


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[grunt]

The Unionists media went much harder on Boris and Sunak when they weren't handing over their WhatsApps or saying they were deleted. It was all over the news constantly, people said deleting something so important was criminal

Did they? Any criticism of them seems to be missing from today's media.

Any criticism of the lying Tories is limited to a footnote on page 24 whereas criticism of the SNP and the SG is front page and headline news for days and weeks up here.

If you think they're treated equally then I don't know what to say.

[grunt]

No we have no idea what's on any WhatsApps. What about decisions to send old folk from hospital to homes without bothering to test them Freeman apologised but who made the decisions, we'll never know.

We didn't know what Rishi said in his but if you go back on the tories thread you'll see people saying he should be locked up for not providing his WhatsApps, he said he'd deleted them people said that is a disgusting excuse. It is

There are clear rules that WhatsApps should be recorded. Sturgeon said so herself then deleted them post this.

It's not what's on them it's deleting evidence. Hold who you support to the same standards as you oppose

You always have this problem. You reduce every discussion to a black and white issue then you lump heavily on one view and dismiss any suggestion that the truth may be more complex. You think all issues are simple. It's tedious, if I'm honest.

[Stairway 2 7]

Are there clear rules on What’s app? I don’t think there are, which is why we are where we are now.

As for the care home issue, why is you think we will never know? Do you know this was decided on a what’s app group? Is it possible that there may be emails, clinical evidence, testimony from those involved, civil servants, clinicians etc. Saying we will never know is overstating things a touch? Yousaf’s what’s app’s have been made available. He was health sec so surely they would contain any crucial chat that was going on? Unlikely he was left out of much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who knows what was on them that is the point same as I said boris was a crook for deleting

Yes as I posted before here is a snp msp making it clear WhatsApps must be kept or it is against freedom of information law. Sturgeon said they must be kept but now says they were deleted post saying this.

[Stairway 2 7]

You always have this problem. You reduce every discussion to a black and white issue then you lump heavily on one view and dismiss any suggestion that the truth may be more complex. You think all issues are simple. It's tedious, if I'm honest.

Block me then. You aren't objective when it comes to snp you treat them like a football team its tedious, we all have our crosses to bear old bean

[Stairway 2 7]

Did they? Any criticism of them seems to be missing from today's media.

Any criticism of the lying Tories is limited to a footnote on page 24 whereas criticism of the SNP and the SG is front page and headline news for days and weeks up here.

If you think they're treated equally then I don't know what to say.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/02/sunak-fails-to-hand-whatsapp-messages-from-time-as-chancellor-to-covid-inquiry

Sunak fails to hand WhatsApp messages from time as chancellor to Covid inquiry
Exclusive: PM claims he has changed phone since running the Treasury and did not back up the messages

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rishi-sunak-whatsapp-texts-covid-inquiry-b2422937.html

Sunak ‘not sharing’ Covid WhatsApp texts ‘a disgrace straight from Boris playbook’
The criticism came after Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said he could not provide his WhatsApp messages from the pandemic because he failed to back them up

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/05/31/what-rishi-sunak-is-trying-to-hide-with-his-whatsapp-cover-up/

What Rishi Sunak is Trying to Hide with his WhatsApp Cover-Up
The Prime Minister’s real motivation for refusing to comply with the COVID Inquiry is not to protect Boris Johnson – but to protect himself, reports Adam Bienkov

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/05/26/why-its-important-boris-johnson-hands-over-whatsapp-messages-to-the-covid-19-inquiry/

Why It’s Important Boris Johnson Hands Over WhatsApp Messages to the COVID-19 Inquiry

[grunt]

Block me then. You aren't objective when it comes to snp you treat them like a football team its tedious, we all have our crosses to bear old bean

Are you saying that the cross you have to bear is your simplistic take on complex issues? If so, then I agree with you.

[Moulin Yarns]

I saw the Scottish Government rules on WhatsApp earlier, can't find them now, but, it was along the lines of they don't need to be kept once the issue has been sorted. So messages were deleted according to the rules once the government has made a decision.

I'm bad for not deleting old messages and email that I no longer need but I can see why you should.

[grunt]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/02/sunak-fails-to-hand-whatsapp-messages-from-time-as-chancellor-to-covid-inquiry

Sunak fails to hand WhatsApp messages from time as chancellor to Covid inquiry
Exclusive: PM claims he has changed phone since running the Treasury and did not back up the messages

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rishi-sunak-whatsapp-texts-covid-inquiry-b2422937.html

Sunak ‘not sharing’ Covid WhatsApp texts ‘a disgrace straight from Boris playbook’
The criticism came after Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said he could not provide his WhatsApp messages from the pandemic because he failed to back them up

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/05/31/what-rishi-sunak-is-trying-to-hide-with-his-whatsapp-cover-up/

What Rishi Sunak is Trying to Hide with his WhatsApp Cover-Up
The Prime Minister’s real motivation for refusing to comply with the COVID Inquiry is not to protect Boris Johnson – but to protect himself, reports Adam Bienkov

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/05/26/why-its-important-boris-johnson-hands-over-whatsapp-messages-to-the-covid-19-inquiry/

Why It’s Important Boris Johnson Hands Over WhatsApp Messages to the COVID-19 Inquiry

Blah blah. You point to a small number of isolated cases of criticism of Johnson, criticism which is then immediately dropped and not followed up.

Here's 5 days straight of BBC Scotland banging on about the SG WhatsApps.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1719113370903695439?s=61&t=-BLvE2XlsyxZYcSjKNkxtg

Are you seriously suggesting the treatment is the same for both sides?

[Stairway 2 7]

Are you saying that the cross you have to bear is your simplistic take on complex issues? If so, then I agree with you.

Alan Turing of .net over here. It's very simplistic when the tories do it you think its shocking, when SNP do it then there is nothing to see here it's a unionists witch hut. QANON SNP style

[Stairway 2 7]

Blah blah. You point to a small number of isolated cases of criticism of Johnson, criticism which is then immediately dropped and not followed up.

Here's 5 days straight of BBC Scotland banging on about the SG WhatsApps.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1719113370903695439?s=61&t=-BLvE2XlsyxZYcSjKNkxtg

Are you seriously suggesting the treatment is the same for both sides?

Yes boris's WhatsApp saga lasted forever and ended up going to the courts. Sunak’s was everywhere also. I've no idea what the treatment is on bbc Scotland tv news was ad I would never dream of watching the pish. The newsagents had a decent couple of podcasts talking about the tories whatsapps well worth a listen

[grunt]

There are clear rules that WhatsApps should be recorded. Sturgeon said so herself then deleted them post this.


Clear rules? https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1719117651270623621?s=61&t=-BLvE2XlsyxZYcSjKNkxtg

[grunt]

Yes boris's WhatsApp saga lasted forever and ended up going to the courts.

What happened in the court?

[Stairway 2 7]

Clear rules? https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1719117651270623621?s=61&t=-BLvE2XlsyxZYcSjKNkxtg

https://twitter.com/LewisMcKenzie94/status/1719083462743740748

Yes I don't know why Humza said they were to be deleted as policy and then kept them, he did the right thing keeping them.

[Stairway 2 7]

What happened in the court?

High Court ordered all government WhatsApps are public record and must be handed into enquiry

[Jack]

If there were rules/guidance across governments that said WhatsApp messages should be recorded elsewhere and then deleted so be it. Thems the rules! Anyone know what happened in other (non UK) governments?

What will be interesting is where any WhatsApp messages that remain and/or leaked don't match the official records.

I honestly believe that if the UK government "wanted" the WhatsApp messages they could be retrieved by MI5 or GCHQ or whatever. I'm not sure the Scottish Government would be able to call on such a service.

[Stairway 2 7]

If there were rules/guidance across governments that said WhatsApp messages should be recorded elsewhere and then deleted so be it. Thems the rules! Anyone know what happened in other (non UK) governments?

What will be interesting is where any WhatsApp messages that remain and/or leaked don't match the official records.

I honestly believe that if the UK government "wanted" the WhatsApp messages they could be retrieved by MI5 or GCHQ or whatever. I'm not sure the Scottish Government would be able to call on such a service.

I don't think they could it's meta/Facebook that holds them. There has been a number of arguments with the FBI and meta about access to information. Quite worrying that these companies and billionaires can hold that power. Tik tok is basically Chinese state owned and is becoming the main news source for under 25s. Lots of American and uk local govs are banning it due to safety concerns.

Uk gov should probably have our own government encrypted app that keeps a copy for public consumption if needed, but I wouldn't trust them not to outsource to a friend and then cancel it when it's massively over price

[Just Alf]

I don't think they could it's meta/Facebook that holds them. There has been a number of arguments with the FBI and meta about access to information. Quite worrying that these companies and billionaires can hold that power. Tik tok is basically Chinese state owned and is becoming the main news source for under 25s. Lots of American and uk local govs are banning it due to safety concerns.

Uk gov should probably have our own government encrypted app that keeps a copy for public consumption if needed, but I wouldn't trust them not to outsource to a friend and then cancel it when it's massively over priceTotally agree with that last paragraph.

As an aside, I watched Lorna Slater being interviewed the other day.
She was quite clear that WhatsApp wasn't used ro discuss government business and as part Of the government she'd not used it for official business,
I thought that maybe the Scottish (and Welsh) governments were maybe a bit more professional than Boris' lot after all.... maybe the reason there's not much to see is there never been much to see .
Then she ruined it by saying she didn't have a government phone! ... a government minister??

[Moulin Yarns]

I saw the Scottish Government rules on WhatsApp earlier, can't find them now, but, it was along the lines of they don't need to be kept once the issue has been sorted. So messages were deleted according to the rules once the government has made a decision.

I'm bad for not deleting old messages and email that I no longer need but I can see why you should.

I found it again. This is scottish government rules on recording of messages. ( not the SNP but government, regardless of parties)


Information and records shall be retained only as long as they are required to support the Scottish Government in its business requirements and legal obligations" (gov.scot)

[Stairway 2 7]

I found it again. This is scottish government rules on recording of messages. ( not the SNP but government, regardless of parties)


Information and records shall be retained only as long as they are required to support the Scottish Government in its business requirements and legal obligations" (gov.scot)

Sturgeon said at the start of the pandemic there would be a requirement for a inquiry, of course this would be pertinent information. It's frankly ridiculous to think the copies should be deleted before the enquiry, that goes for Sunak also. The high court in England said the same to the Tories. Sturgeon said WhatsApps would be included for any enquiry back in August 21.

They need to have a better system in place. Why has Humza still not handed in his WhatsApps when it was all over the media in June that boris was told by the High court that WhatsApps are of course legally required as part of the enquiry

Aamer Anwar hardly a unionists defending the grieving families said on the WhatsApps "its a cynical and cruel exercise in deceit, the families deserve better"

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1719394827014484030?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

LOL

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-67273599


Nicola Sturgeon was not in any WhatsApp Covid groups.

[marinello59]

https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1719394827014484030?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Predictable once they realised they weren’t going to get away with not handing them over.

[Ozyhibby]

Predictable once they realised they weren’t going to get away with not handing them over.

There was never a problem handing them over so long as the correct paperwork was in place. That is done now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

There was never a problem handing them over so long as the correct paperwork was in place. That is done now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's been handed over though. Its just a meaningless number, boris's secretary handed in thousands himself. Sturgeon, Swinney and Leitch all rumoured to have deleted. That might not be true but if it is then its pretty shocking as I said when Sunak deleted his.

The majority of the biggest shocks in the uk covid enquiry have came from private messages, as people speak more openly

[Ozyhibby]

What's been handed over though. Its just a meaningless number, boris's secretary handed in thousands himself. Sturgeon, Swinney and Leitch all rumoured to have deleted. That might not be true but if it is then its pretty shocking as I said when Sunak deleted his.

The majority of the biggest shocks in the uk covid enquiry have came from private messages, as people speak more openly

Everything you have said there is a guess based on zero info.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Everything you have said there is a guess based on zero info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only guess is that the papers are running with the 3 have deleted their messages. I think after Humza saying he hasn't and the others saying no comment when asked if it's true they have deleted, I'd presume they have but could be wrong

The KC says SNP have told him a large percentage have deleted them, the same goes for Sunak.

Whoever has should be sacked reprimanded. They said early in the pandemic that there would be an enquiry, to delete them knowing this is far wrong.

[grunt]

Everything you have said there is a guess based on zero info.:agree:

[grunt]

Block me then.
Good idea.

[Stairway 2 7]

Good idea.

That was 2 days ago you should have done it. If you block everyone who criticises the glorious leaders and the most pure and powerful SNP, then you can live in peace knowing the party does no wrong and will bring home more MPs than the last GE.

[Stairway 2 7]

Significant Yougov has a labour lead. Just one poll but this is the first time SNP hasn't been in front in a poll since 2014. RW has it tied. Crazy how many say they will vote tory and how little will vote green, Scotland is knackered

ElectionMapsUK
Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 38% (+6)
SNP: 32% (-1)
CON: 16% (-4)
LDM: 5% (=)

Via
@YouGov
, 20-25 Oct.
Changes w/ 2-6 Oct.

My Seat Projection (New Boundaries):

LAB: 35 (+34)
SNP: 11 (-37)
CON: 7 (+1)
LDM: 4 (+2)

Changes w/ GE2019 Notionals

@RedfieldWilton
SNP and Labour are tied in Scotland.

Scotland Westminster VI (29-30 October):

SNP 32% (-2)
Labour 32% (–)
Conservative 23% (+2)
Lib Dem 8% (-1)
Green 2% (–)
Reform 2% (+1)

My Seat Projection (New Boundaries):

LAB: 28 (+27)
SNP: 12 (-36)
CON: 12 (+6)
LDM: 5 (+3)

[Stairway 2 7]

Kate Forbes throwing NS under the bus? She said yes she kept all her WhatsApps as "it was clear..there would be an inquiry". Says she has passed them all on. When asked about her former boss, Nicola Sturgeon, she says 'I think it's incumbent on all of us to give an account of our own actions'

[wookie70]

Has there ever been any comments on whether it was against Government policy to use Whatsapp for Government business(Westminster or Holyrood) I find it hard to believe that discussing National Interests on a platform like that is secure.

[marinello59]

Kate Forbes throwing NS under the bus? She said yes she kept all her WhatsApps as "it was clear..there would be an inquiry". Says she has passed them all on. When asked about her former boss, Nicola Sturgeon, she says 'I think it's incumbent on all of us to give an account of our own actions'

Sturgeon threw herself under a bus by calling a press conference saying she had nothing to hide but failing to clarify whether she had kept the WhatsApp messages she had previously promised to hand over. It stinks, both governments are treating us like fools.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1720467152589791587?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good news.[emoji106]


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[marinello59]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1720467152589791587?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good news.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well done to the Union leadership for not crumbling and keeping the pressure on to get a better deal for their members whilst having their motives questioned.

[grunt]

SNP table amendment to the King's Speech calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-b1CGOWYAAZY7L?format=jpg&name=medium

[marinello59]

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-health-secretary-michael-matheson-racked-up-11-000-data-roaming-fee-on-parliament-ipad-13003913

That's a hefty roaming charge to rack up on holiday. :greengrin

[hibee]

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-health-secretary-michael-matheson-racked-up-11-000-data-roaming-fee-on-parliament-ipad-13003913

That's a hefty roaming charge to rack up on holiday. :greengrin

What did his business use involve, watching movies 24hrs a day? Just shows you how out of touch with reality these people are, anyone else would just find the hotel WiFi and use that.

[Jack]

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-health-secretary-michael-matheson-racked-up-11-000-data-roaming-fee-on-parliament-ipad-13003913

That's a hefty roaming charge to rack up on holiday. :greengrin

Apparently an out of contract SIM. Easy mistake to make when you're not paying the bill 😴

[grunt]

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-health-secretary-michael-matheson-racked-up-11-000-data-roaming-fee-on-parliament-ipad-13003913

That's a hefty roaming charge to rack up on holiday. :greengrin

He should be made to pay it back.

[Ozyhibby]

He should be made to pay it back.

From reading the article, it doesn’t appear to be his fault?


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[Stairway 2 7]

From reading the article, it doesn’t appear to be his fault?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you believe the 11k of data was government work becauseive got a bridge to sell you. Hours of streaming with the family over Christmas when parliament is closed. Why is the idiot not using WiFi anyway. Even on a new contract it would have cost using so much data in Morocco. He could have used WiFi indoors but was so busy doing government work whilst not in range of WiFi when on holiday. He then was laughing when the point of order was raised in Parliament, all politicians are the same

It's still his incompetence regardless. He got emails sayinghe had to switch and also got alerts from EE, from stv
https://news.stv.tv/politics/minister-repeatedly-told-to-change-ipad-sim-months-before-11000-bill

However, the Scottish Parliament has told STV News that the SNP politician would have been alerted up to a year before his holiday that he must replace the card

The Scottish Parliament told STV there is a requirement to notify officials before travelling abroad and outwith Europe so the appropriate roaming package can be applied.

STV News was told that Holyrood was not informed that Matheson was going on holiday

EE maintains it did issue warnings to the iPad that roaming costs were being accrued

[marinello59]

Do you believe the 11k of data was government work becauseive got a bridge to sell you. Hours of streaming with the family over Christmas when parliament is closed. Why is the idiot not using WiFi anyway. Even on a new contract it would have cost using so much data in Morocco. He could have used WiFi indoors but was so busy doing government work whilst not in range of WiFi when on holiday. He then was laughing when the point of order was raised in Parliament, all politicians are the same

It's still his incompetence regardless. He got emails sayinghe had to switch and also got alerts from EE, from stv
https://news.stv.tv/politics/minister-repeatedly-told-to-change-ipad-sim-months-before-11000-bill

However, the Scottish Parliament has told STV News that the SNP politician would have been alerted up to a year before his holiday that he must replace the card

The Scottish Parliament told STV there is a requirement to notify officials before travelling abroad and outwith Europe so the appropriate roaming package can be applied.

STV News was told that Holyrood was not informed that Matheson was going on holiday

EE maintains it did issue warnings to the iPad that roaming costs were being accrued

That’s £65 an hour for the seven day duration of his holiday. We know he was only doing constituency business because he says so. :greengrin

[grunt]

From reading the article, it doesn’t appear to be his fault?
That's not how I read it.

[grunt]

That’s £65 an hour for the seven day duration of his holiday. That's more a comment on the horrendous price gouging by EE.

[Jack]

MSPs and particularly Ministers have a hoard of assistants and back up staff that are supposed to be looking after them. How the heck did none of them pick up on this? I wonder how many other MSPs are frantically looking for that replacement SIM this week?

It's no excuse as he was ultimately responsible.

[greenginger]

That's more a comment on the horrendous price gouging by EE.


And a politician who doesn’t give a **** what anything costs if he thinks he’s not paying for it.

[Stairway 2 7]

That’s £65 an hour for the seven day duration of his holiday. We know he was only doing constituency business because he says so. :greengrin

I literally didn't find a cafe or restaurant that didn't have WiFi in Marrakesh when I was there last year, even wee local places. How was he streaming constantly for work when parliament is closed. Emails or Web pages take up hardly any mb. It's just rubbish. Him or his bairns have been watching movies.

Him laughing away in parliament when they were discussing it shows naivete or disregard

[Jack]

For those suggesting hotel or cafe WiFi. I wouldn't be surprised if that's against the rules on security grounds. They're probably not allowed to use public WiFi in this country. Perhaps a current Scottish Government employee could confirm rules around using secure networks.

[grunt]

And a politician who doesn’t give a **** what anything costs if he thinks he’s not paying for it.If he has any political nous whatsoever he should have been concerned for the fallout when the bill became public. I have no sympathy for him.

[grunt]

For those suggesting hotel or cafe WiFi. I wouldn't be surprised if that's against the rules on security grounds. They're probably not allowed to use public WiFi in this country.
Surely there's software tools that will allow them to use a public network in a secure manner?

[Jack]

Surely there's software tools that will allow them to use a public network in a secure manner?

That's why I'm asking for a current civil servant to confirm.

Before I retired, a good while ago now, the powers that be were paranoid about security and for good reason. A hack into the Government Secure Internet could lead to a bigger scandal than an 11 grand phone bill!

[McD]

Emails etc don’t use up a lot of data, would be very interesting to hear how much data he’s used whilst away for the week.


I will caveat that by saying that some providers charge a rate simply to access the data allowance attached to the contract - although 11 thousand pounds is incredibly high

[Andy Bee]

Emails etc don’t use up a lot of data, would be very interesting to hear how much data he’s used whilst away for the week.


I will caveat that by saying that some providers charge a rate simply to access the data allowance attached to the contract - although 11 thousand pounds is incredibly high

From what I can find EE charge £65 for 110Mb outside the EU, £11k would get you approx 18Gb so to put things into perspective one 4k film is around 15Gb, HD around 5Gb. In todays media rich/high resolution internet it doesn't really take long to eat through 18Gb. I'm not apologising for the eejit but to use his technical inadequacies as a stick to beat him with suggesting he doesn't care is a far stretch. I'd be more concerned about why the IT department didn't pick up on this and put a block on. EE deserve a mention also for their extortionate pricing.

[Hibrandenburg]

I literally didn't find a cafe or restaurant that didn't have WiFi in Marrakesh when I was there last year, even wee local places. How was he streaming constantly for work when parliament is closed. Emails or Web pages take up hardly any mb. It's just rubbish. Him or his bairns have been watching movies.

Him laughing away in parliament when they were discussing it shows naivete or disregard

Government staff are told not to use open WiFi on official devices. Could that be the reason behind it?

[Just Alf]

Government staff are told not to use open WiFi on official devices. Could that be the reason behind it?Could be, my company is in no way government connected but all our devices use our secure WiFi when at one of our sites and sim/mobile data when elsewhere.

Not sure if it's just for simplicity mind.

[marinello59]

From what I can find EE charge £65 for 110Mb outside the EU, £11k would get you approx 18Gb so to put things into perspective one 4k film is around 15Gb, HD around 5Gb. In todays media rich/high resolution internet it doesn't really take long to eat through 18Gb. I'm not apologising for the eejit but to use his technical inadequacies as a stick to beat him with suggesting he doesn't care is a far stretch. I'd be more concerned about why the IT department didn't pick up on this and put a block on. EE deserve a mention also for their extortionate pricing.

Standard Parliament procedure was for him to inform the IT department before he went abroad so a bolt on package could be applied and advice given. Apparently he was aware of that but didn’t do it.
I don’t think watching a movie would come under constituency business either. Even if he spent his entire holiday sending emails the bill would have be nowhere near 11 grand.

[Mibbes Aye]

That's why I'm asking for a current civil servant to confirm.

Before I retired, a good while ago now, the powers that be were paranoid about security and for good reason. A hack into the Government Secure Internet could lead to a bigger scandal than an 11 grand phone bill!

gsi etc isn’t really a thing anymore in the public sector. Your network or apps are accessed through multi-factorial authentication, i.e. something you know, something you have. So you log on using a unique ID and strong password (something you know) and then receive a one-time password to your official phone or a security key (something you have).

Essentially you don’t log in by accident and depending on the settings you will have to repeat the process, or at least the OTP stage at regular intervals.

I think he is fortunate that it is a parliamentary device rather than a government one as it doesn’t seem like further action is being taken. Still unclear about why he didn’t pick up on it when he was required to log in again, nor why he offered to pay some of the costs back from his (taxpayer-funded) expenses account, but not all or none.

[Stairway 2 7]

From what I can find EE charge £65 for 110Mb outside the EU, £11k would get you approx 18Gb so to put things into perspective one 4k film is around 15Gb, HD around 5Gb. In todays media rich/high resolution internet it doesn't really take long to eat through 18Gb. I'm not apologising for the eejit but to use his technical inadequacies as a stick to beat him with suggesting he doesn't care is a far stretch. I'd be more concerned about why the IT department didn't pick up on this and put a block on. EE deserve a mention also for their extortionate pricing.

Why would you be streaming movies for hours for work. Parliament was on holiday, teams, websites and email takes a fraction. I'm in Venice and worked for a few hours and wasted some time on here twitter insta and sent pics on WhatsApp used 300mb in 2 last 48 hours.

Tip for him and anyone else download an esim card can get gb's for a few pound. EE said they messaged him when he arrived but to be honest its the first thing you think of when using a device abroad

[Andy Bee]

Why would you be streaming movies for hours for work. Parliament was on holiday, teams, websites and email takes a fraction. I'm in Venice and worked for a few hours and wasted some time on here twitter insta and sent pics on WhatsApp used 300mb in 2 last 48 hours.

Tip for him and anyone else download an esim card can get gb's for a few pound. EE said they messaged him when he arrived but to be honest its the first thing you think of when using a device abroad

I'm not saying he was watching movies I'm just using it as an example of the amount of data he used i.e. one 4k film. Teams or Zoom can use 2.5Gb an hour and can be considerably higher depending on the circumstances so 7.5hrs of conferencing over a week seems quite plausible.

[Hibrandenburg]

That's why I'm asking for a current civil servant to confirm.

Before I retired, a good while ago now, the powers that be were paranoid about security and for good reason. A hack into the Government Secure Internet could lead to a bigger scandal than an 11 grand phone bill!

Some government devices won't allow you to log into open WiFi.

[Paul1642]

It not unique to just this politician or the SNP however it really seems like those spending public funds really don’t give a crap in general.

I truly would dread to imagine my meeting with the boss if I accidentally spent 11k on data 😂

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not saying he was watching movies I'm just using it as an example of the amount of data he used i.e. one 4k film. Teams or Zoom can use 2.5Gb an hour and can be considerably higher depending on the circumstances so 7.5hrs of conferencing over a week seems quite plausible.

My teams has never ran at more than one gb an hour this year, its much better than it was. No chance was he doing that much conferencing when parliament was in recess in the Christmas holidays.

The point is though he got multiple emails telling him to change sim he didn't, he was supposed to report if he was using mobile abroad he didn't, he got messages from EE saying how much the data would cost if he used it. He used an enormous amount of data for a week. It's his mistake not the publics so why are we paying.

If it was anyone's else's job and they ignored emails, failed to report the trip then it would be on them

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/conor_matchett/status/1723023393610498411?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
He has paid it himself now.
Good chance the whole family were hot spotting him. I know that’s what happens to me on holiday as I’m the only one who has a decent mobile contract. And WiFi tends to be rotten on hols. Been to marrakech and Turkey recently to posh hotels and the WiFi was crap at both.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/conor_matchett/status/1723023393610498411?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
He has paid it himself now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Humza said it was a legitimate expense but this seems like an admission of guilt. If he'd paid it himself well before a week of pressure I reckon people would have felt sorry for his daftness. I don't think it's a sacking offence but it's a costly **** up

[greenginger]

Humza said it was a legitimate expense but this seems like an admission of guilt. If he'd paid it himself well before a week of pressure I reckon people would have felt sorry for his daftness. I don't think it's a sacking offence but it's a costly **** up

Certainly closes down any calls for an enquiry that might have revealed some some dodgy material he accidentally downloaded. :wink:

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done Michael Matheson


done the right thing

respect

[marinello59]

It’s all getting a bit silly around Matheson now with the ridiculous attempt to get the police involved thankfully coming to nothing. However the call for him to hand his iPad over for inspection is fair enough and could put the story to bed as long as he is telling the truth.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s all getting a bit silly around Matheson now with the ridiculous attempt to get the police involved thankfully coming to nothing. However the call for him to hand his iPad over for inspection is fair enough and could put the story to bed as long as he is telling the truth.

He’s paid the bill now so the matter should be closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

He’s paid the bill now so the matter should be closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He attempted to evade the bill and lumber the taxpayer with it for a year and only paid up when it was exposed in the press.
He has stated categorically that he only used the iPad for constituency business. He can prove that was the case by handing his iPad over. Why wouldn’t he do that? It could prove he is only guilty of failing to follow procedure rather than being guilty of dishonesty. Yousaf is constantly telling us how important transparency is, he is right, it’s not a thing to be feared.

[Moulin Yarns]

I thought the iPad was handed over in January to the IT manager and was checked and given the all clear?!

[marinello59]

I thought the iPad was handed over in January to the IT manager and was checked and given the all clear?!

Matheson said he handed it to an IT manager who had access to all the data. We know the sim was checked but there is no mention of whether usage was looked at. Easily cleared up by either having somebody come out and say it was checked or handing it back now so that can be done.
I’m giving Mathewson the benefit of the doubt here, he could do himself a huge favour by removing that doubt.

[grunt]

SNP haters are so funny.

[Stairway 2 7]

I thought the iPad was handed over in January to the IT manager and was checked and given the all clear?!

Yeah he gave that impression that it was checked but Scot Gov hung him to dry a bit on Monday, saying the just checked the data and not the browsing history and took his word that it was all government business.

Opposition are saying for him to prove it and that'll be that but he says he won't

[Moulin Yarns]

Yeah he gave that impression that it was checked but Scot Gov hung him to dry a bit on Monday, saying the just checked the data and not the browsing history and took his word that it was all government business.

Opposition are saying for him to prove it and that'll be that but he says he won't

I'm in no way a computer expert but he has had 10 months to erase any history or could have browsed incognito.

[RyeSloan]

SNP haters are so funny.

Or some might question why he lied about not getting any messages from EE, why he decided to let the public purse pay his bill until outed and then wonder just how reliable his statement around ‘government business only’ is.

Sure the opposition is hamming it up but his line of ‘I’ve [finally] paid it myself so nothing more to see here’ is a bit weak to say the least.

He’s not exactly displayed honesty, transparency or integrity to date so he’s brought the bun fight on himself I’d say.

[grunt]

Or some might question why he lied about not getting any messages from EE, why he decided to let the public purse pay his bill until outed and then wonder just how reliable his statement around ‘government business only’ is.

Sure the opposition is hamming it up but his line of ‘I’ve [finally] paid it myself so nothing more to see here’ is a bit weak to say the least.

He’s not exactly displayed honesty, transparency or integrity to date so he’s brought the bun fight on himself I’d say.
I've already said he was wrong to claim for it and I called for him to pay the bill himself before he agreed to. The fact that this issue is getting blanket coverage from the BBC in Scotland is what I find annoying. there's so much else going on in the world that we should be focusing on, yet our anti-SNP biased media directs its viewers to this relatively inconsequential issue. For days on end.

[Hiber-nation]

Mathieson is hopeless and naive beyond belief. Yeah the media are going OTT as per usual but he's brought it on himself.

[Kato]

I've already said he was wrong to claim for it and I called for him to pay the bill himself before he agreed to. The fact that this issue is getting blanket coverage from the BBC in Scotland is what I find annoying. there's so much else going on in the world that we should be focusing on, yet our anti-SNP biased media directs its viewers to this relatively inconsequential issue. For days on end.https://i.ibb.co/zP3ZbYs/Phil-Mitchell.jpg

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://i.ibb.co/zP3ZbYs/Phil-Mitchell.jpg

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

You could use that meme to dismiss anything that isn't as important as billions of pounds of robbery, sewage in river, tory mps having parties during Covid, bottle deposit scheme ect ect. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed mind

[JimBHibees]

https://i.ibb.co/zP3ZbYs/Phil-Mitchell.jpg

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Ain’t that the truth

[Kato]

You could use that meme to dismiss anything that isn't as important as billions of pounds of robbery, sewage in river, tory mps having parties during Covid, bottle deposit scheme ect ect. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed mindWell that's the way you are choosing to see it.

How about being angry at all those things rather than "dismissing" any of them?

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[Stairway 2 7]

Well that's the way you are choosing to see it.

How about being angry at all those things rather than "dismissing" any of them?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I think Most are angry about all of it Michelle Mone is correctly brought up years later. All parties should be scrutinised and obviously the 11k bill happening now is going to take precedence in the news right now.

[Kato]

I think Most are angry about all of it Michelle Mone is correctly brought up years later. All parties should be scrutinised and obviously the 11k bill happening now is going to take precedence in the news right now.Ok..

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Hmm, tricky decision. Which is more important, I wonder?

£122,000,000 given to Michelle Mone's company for substandard PPE which was never used?

Or

£11,000 bill for Michael Matheson's iPad usage, which he has paid back?

Must be the latter, because there are 4 stories about the iPad on BBC Scotland website, and no stories about Michelle Mone ...

[Hibs Class]

The day with the largest usage was 2 January, when he incurred charges over £7k. Just a coincidence The Rangers were playing Celtic that day?

[GlesgaeHibby]

I'm sick to the back teeth of the SNP, but fed up of hearing this story and the pathetic OTT reaction led by Scottish Tories and BBC Scotland. Surely the real story is EE robbing folk blind? £11k for 6gb is scandalous.

[grunt]

The day with the largest usage was 2 January, when he incurred charges over £7k. Just a coincidence The Rangers were playing Celtic that day?:greengrin


I'm sick to the back teeth of the SNP, but fed up of hearing this story and the pathetic OTT reaction led by Scottish Tories and BBC Scotland. Surely the real story is EE robbing folk blind? £11k for 6gb is scandalous.Agreed!

[McSwanky]

I'm sick to the back teeth of the SNP, but fed up of hearing this story and the pathetic OTT reaction led by Scottish Tories and BBC Scotland. Surely the real story is EE robbing folk blind? £11k for 6gb is scandalous.

It is a horrendous bill. But the guy has been uber daft at best here, clearly using the iPad for streaming or proxy streaming by hotspot. Even if the contract was right and extra charges were a fraction of what the £11k, he shouldn't be doing that with public money.

However, I'd be interested to know what the costs would have been had he been on the correct contract. I'd imagine reasonable personal use of a work iPad would be allowed as long as it doesn't incur extra charges over and above the contract?

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm sick to the back teeth of the SNP, but fed up of hearing this story and the pathetic OTT reaction led by Scottish Tories and BBC Scotland. Surely the real story is EE robbing folk blind? £11k for 6gb is scandalous.

It's always happened and everyone knows it, hence we turn our data off when abroad, unless we have a package sorted or buy a foreign sim. He got the messages from EE saying the price then streamed hours of video. A costly mistake he should have owned instead of getting the tax payer to take. Yes not as bad as the tories during Covid not as bad as the battle of Orgreave either, but both nowt to do with this situation and whataboutery can't be used for everything

[GlesgaeHibby]

It is a horrendous bill. But the guy has been uber daft at best here, clearly using the iPad for streaming or proxy streaming by hotspot. Even if the contract was right and extra charges were a fraction of what the £11k, he shouldn't be doing that with public money.

However, I'd be interested to know what the costs would have been had he been on the correct contract. I'd imagine reasonable personal use of a work iPad would be allowed as long as it doesn't incur extra charges over and above the contract?

Agrees he's been really daft here, and it shouldn't have took the pressure it did for him to agree to pay.

Ultimately, it's his fault and he's paying for it (which is right). That being said, the Parliament should also look at safeguards to avoid anybody racking up crazy roaming bills. I'm with ID, and they offer roam like home in EU. Went to Croatia in the summer, and did a day trip to Bosnia. Turned on data roaming briefly to check out spots to eat for lunch, and quickly hit my £20 additional charges cap and could no longer access data. Something as basic as that would help here (and may be in place on the new sims, that he should have switched to anyway).

[Ozyhibby]

6gb? Is that all it is? I wouldn’t get charged that if I went over on my plan?
This sounds more like a govt procurement scandal than an individual MSP?


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[Stairway 2 7]

6gb? Is that all it is? I wouldn’t get charged that if I went over on my plan?
This sounds more like a govt procurement scandal than an individual MSP?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No 3 gig was on the old firm day Monday the 2nd a Bank Holiday. But the celtic fan was probably on teams for hours instead.

You mustn't have an already expired EE contract.

It's his scandal he ignored emails to change SIM in his personal ipad, he should have reported it being used abroad he didn't, what he did do was ignore the messages from EE explaining the charges per MB.

If he swapped out the old sim and used the new contract like all other MSPs he wouldn't have a big bill. His bill is greater than the combined bills of every other MSP in the last 6 years, I presume they all used abroad too, but used right contract or reported the holiday

[Stairway 2 7]

Agrees he's been really daft here, and it shouldn't have took the pressure it did for him to agree to pay.

Ultimately, it's his fault and he's paying for it (which is right). That being said, the Parliament should also look at safeguards to avoid anybody racking up crazy roaming bills. I'm with ID, and they offer roam like home in EU. Went to Croatia in the summer, and did a day trip to Bosnia. Turned on data roaming briefly to check out spots to eat for lunch, and quickly hit my £20 additional charges cap and could no longer access data. Something as basic as that would help here (and may be in place on the new sims, that he should have switched to anyway).

They do they had a new contract 6 months before he went away. Every MSP was told to change SIM and it would work abroad at no extra cost. He didn't and didn't report using a device abroad which he was meant to.

[greenginger]

Hmm, tricky decision. Which is more important, I wonder?

£122,000,000 given to Michelle Mone's company for substandard PPE which was never used?

Or

£11,000 bill for Michael Matheson's iPad usage, which he has paid back?

Must be the latter, because there are 4 stories about the iPad on BBC Scotland website, and no stories about Michelle Mone ...

Google Michelle Mone BBC and you’ll get a dozen BBC stories about about the scandal.

[grunt]

Google Michelle Mone BBC and you’ll get a dozen BBC stories about about the scandal.Is it front page news on BBC Scotland right now? Thought not.

[JimBHibees]

Google Michelle Mone BBC and you’ll get a dozen BBC stories about about the scandal.

Not every day over and over and over

[McD]

Is it front page news on BBC Scotland right now? Thought not.



Her getting PPE money didn’t happen right now - the iPad situation is happening right now

[Pretty Boy]

What ever happened to just admitting you made a mistake and apologising? There's far more chance he survived this if he did that.

'I made a mistake. I was watching the football, I miscalculated the roaming charges and I shouldn't have submitted it as a work expense. I apologise unreservedly and will ensure the money is repaid'.

A few bitter *******s will still want him hung but an apology and an admission still goes a long way with many. Now trying to throw his kids under the bus which is going to play well with absolutely nobody; even if it was them it just looks sleekit dragging them into this publicly. He's digging a deeper hole every day and is going to have to resign which could have been avoided had he had any brains at all.

[greenginger]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67437534


so it was the kids that done it ! How old are the kids that were able to access a Scottish Government iPad.

wonder if there was any confidential info available.

[marinello59]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67437534


so it was the kids that done it ! How old are the kids that were able to access a Scottish Government iPad.

wonder if there was any confidential info available.

So basically has lied. And he was going to let the tax payer pick up the tab. Yousaf will surely be telling him privately to go, he has been made to look foolish.

I’ve just seen he says his kids used the iPad as a hotspot. Which he would have had to OK on the iPad. So how on earth can he blame his kids for doing something he obviously authorised?

[McD]

What ever happened to just admitting you made a mistake and apologising? There's far more chance he survived this if he did that.

'I made a mistake. I was watching the football, I miscalculated the roaming charges and I shouldn't have submitted it as a work expense. I apologise unreservedly and will ensure the money is repaid'.

A few bitter *******s will still want him hung but an apology and an admission still goes a long way with many. Now trying to throw his kids under the bus which is going to play well with absolutely nobody; even if it was them it just looks sleekit dragging them into this publicly. He's digging a deeper hole every day and is going to have to resign which could have been avoided had he had any brains at all.



He’s not done Humza any favours either. I don’t doubt that the FM took him at his word that it was purely work related use of the iPad, and publicly backed him to that effect. Now there will some who choose to use this situation as a stick to beat the FM with (I am not, the blame for this lies solely with Mathieson).

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67437534


so it was the kids that done it ! How old are the kids that were able to access a Scottish Government iPad.

wonder if there was any confidential info available.

They would have been on their own iPads but hot spoting Dads data. This cost me a few quid on my last holiday. Not £11k mind you. Government procurement needs a bloody good shake.
He now needs to go as he lied to parliament.


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[greenginger]

They would have been on their own iPads but hot spoting Dads data. This cost me a few quid on my last holiday. Not £11k mind you. Government procurement needs a bloody good shake.
He now needs to go as he lied to parliament.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah ! Tech :confused: catches me out all the time :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

They would have been on their own iPads but hot spoting Dads data. This cost me a few quid on my last holiday. Not £11k mind you. Government procurement needs a bloody good shake.
He now needs to go as he lied to parliament.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It doesn't. There were emails saying change sim we have a new contract, if he did there would be no bill. He then didn't report the travel, he then ignored the texts with the costs laid out. His bill was higher than every MP combined over the last 6 years. Him not changing sim like everyone else was the problem.

He then tried to put it as an expense. No one thought to say how the hell did you use 4 gig in one day. He repeatedly said when asked it was only used for work business, he's not daft he knows he wasn't on teams for hours on the first. Humza said he believed it was work business, again how, did he not ask the simple question how 4 gig in one day.

If he found out he created a huge bill and said sorry we were watching football I'll pay, this would be over 6 months ago

Ps he's a celtic fan did he not watch it on the 2nd

[hibee]

He just needs to resign, lied to parliament and was happy to let the taxpayer pay until he was caught out, now blaming the kids and coming out with fake tears is embarrassing.

There’s no way my kids could access my company laptop / desktop or use the data without my knowledge, far too many passwords and multi factor authentication.

I’d like to think a government iPad is even more secure.

[Stairway 2 7]

I've got a contract with my work I wouldn't think about using it abroad or letting my kids stream. Why didn't the kids just use WIFI. If he was using his ipad as a hotspot then he obviously knew the data wasn't only used for government business as he said. He also must have known it wasn't parliamentary business when he put in his expenses

[Ozyhibby]

It doesn't. There were emails saying change sim we have a new contract, if he did there would be no bill. He then didn't report the travel, he then ignored the texts with the costs laid out. His bill was higher than every MP combined over the last 6 years. Him not changing sim like everyone else was the problem.

He then tried to put it as an expense. No one thought to say how the hell did you use 4 gig in one day. He repeatedly said when asked it was only used for work business, he's not daft he knows he wasn't on teams for hours on the first. Humza said he believed it was work business, again how, did he not ask the simple question how 4 gig in one day.

If he found out he created a huge bill and said sorry we were watching football I'll pay, this would be over 6 months ago

Ps he's a celtic fan did he not watch it on the 2nd

Once the sim ran out, it should have stopped working? The parliament should have made sure that was the case.
That’s what happens to normal people.
Not excusing him though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Once the sim ran out, it should have stopped working? The parliament should have made sure that was the case.
That’s what happens to normal people.
Not excusing him though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Often the SIM turns to a pay as you go. He would have all the details in the multiple emails he ignored.

He's now just said he didn't watch the football and didn't know his kids watched it F right off. Your kids get a link for the team you support and don't say and you don't notice for hours and neither of you mention watching the game before or after. Why keep lying

[RyeSloan]

Often the SIM turns to a pay as you go. He would have all the details in the multiple emails he ignored.

He's now just said he didn't watch the football and didn't know his kids watched it F right off. Your kids get a link for the team you support and don't say and you don't notice for hours and neither of you mention watching the game before or after. Why keep lying

Honesty and Integrity were the words Humza was using yesterday.

There was questions on here why it was still news.

Well that’s the answer, there was significant doubt about his honesty and integrity from the start. That doubt has now been proven (again) with his statements today.

Even having your hotspot turned on when using a government device seems odd…not knowing it was on, not having a password set for the hotspot and then someone using your connection without your knowledge stretches credibility to the extreme.

And even if somehow true would simply lead to more questions around how a government minister could be so slack with his security on his device…a device that he should have registered as being abroad but also didn’t bother doing.

So it’s not about the £11k really it’s his lies and fabrication around the whole story that’s brought us to where we are.

[hibee]

According to the government’s own response to a FOI request in January last year the EE contract actually ended in 2016 and there was only one active Sim when they responded to that request. You’d think when they noticed that they would have made sure it was switched over to the new contract.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100269146/

[Stairway 2 7]

He told press on Monday it was for private use but now says his wife told him it was the boys on Thursday. It's not that he's lied it's how many lies.

Scot gov says tonight that hot spotting to family isn't allowed as the data is for government business only. He new he hotspotted to the kids but still said it was government business when getting government to pay the bill

There's also no way his kids were watching the old firm and he wasn't or at least mention they watched the game. Did the 90 minute celtic equaliser go in and they just not say anything to him

[Hibrandenburg]

I think we may have a candidate that actually lives up to the thread title. Give him his jotters and be done with it. It's like Pretty Boy said earlier, if only he'd held up his hands and said "I've been a cock, sorry", then we wouldn't be talking about this anymore.

[McD]

Honesty and Integrity were the words Humza was using yesterday.

There was questions on here why it was still news.

Well that’s the answer, there was significant doubt about his honesty and integrity from the start. That doubt has now been proven (again) with his statements today.

Even having your hotspot turned on when using a government device seems odd…not knowing it was on, not having a password set for the hotspot and then someone using your connection without your knowledge stretches credibility to the extreme.

And even if somehow true would simply lead to more questions around how a government minister could be so slack with his security on his device…a device that he should have registered as being abroad but also didn’t bother doing.

So it’s not about the £11k really it’s his lies and fabrication around the whole story that’s brought us to where we are.


From experience, Apple products have a randomly generated password (around 10-12 characters long) automatically enabled when the hotspot functionality is switched on, that password would need to be manually switched off or changed to something more memorable manually

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If he had told the truth from the outset he may have got plaudits for that and perhaps if not sympathy then at least a recognition from other parents that these things can happen. It might even have been a positive in the fullness of time.

[marinello59]

In 2001 the First Minister resigned because he failed to declare he had sub let a part of his constituency office in the register of interests. Despite it being demonstrated that he had not benefited personally he quit and paid the money back.
What a contrast with the actions we see today when Ministers are caught out. Yousaf has to sack Matheson tonight.

[easty]

In 2001 the First Minister resigned because he failed to declare he had sub let a part of his constituency office in the register of interests. Despite it being demonstrated that he had not benefited personally he quit and paid the money back.
What a contrast with the actions we see today when Ministers are caught out. Yousaf has to sack Matheson tonight.

I’m amazed he’s not been sacked.

[hibee]

In 2001 the First Minister resigned because he failed to declare he had sub let a part of his constituency office in the register of interests. Despite it being demonstrated that he had not benefited personally he quit and paid the money back.
What a contrast with the actions we see today when Ministers are caught out. Yousaf has to sack Matheson tonight.

I just looked that up to read about it and found this quote from the story quite amusing, just as valid today as it was then!

“The SNP leader, John Swinney, said today that it was the "drip, drip, drip" of news about the scandal that led to today's news.

He said had Mr McLeish made a full and frank disclosure to parliament when the news first broke he would not have had to quit.”

[marinello59]

I just looked that up to read about it and found this quote from the story quite amusing, just as valid today as it was then!

“The SNP leader, John Swinney, said today that it was the "drip, drip, drip" of news about the scandal that led to today's news.

He said had Mr McLeish made a full and frank disclosure to parliament when the news first broke he would not have had to quit.”

Aye, pretty familiar.:greengrin
Difference is Mcleish didn’t lie or try to blame anyone else and resigned and refunded the tax payer rather than expecting them to foot the bill for his mistake. He did the right thing,Matheson is treating us like fools by staying in position.

[GlesgaeHibby]

According to the government’s own response to a FOI request in January last year the EE contract actually ended in 2016 and there was only one active Sim when they responded to that request. You’d think when they noticed that they would have made sure it was switched over to the new contract.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100269146/

Government FOI request would cover civil servants and Ministers for govt devices. By the sounds of it, this was a Parliament SIM for MSPs, so that FOI response wouldn't be relevant here.

All of this is on Matheson. Not changing the sim, not paying the bill before this became a scandal, and now by the looks of it lying as he's dug himself deeper into a hole. He'll be gone by the weekend imo.

[grunt]

Her getting PPE money didn’t happen right now - the iPad situation is happening right nowSo £120,000,000 stolen three years ago and never returned isn't news, but £11,000 incurred and wrongly claimed on expenses one year ago and repaid this month is news, and worthy of blanket coverage on every BBC news site and TV programme for days on end. Useful to have this perspective on what people think is important in Scotland right now. You're being played.

[Jack]

Did he actually claim the £11,000 on expenses or, as I suspect, it just went through the accounts team on a monthly invoice type thing? I think there's a huge difference between him claiming the money and the money being spent automatically on his behalf so to speak.

I'd imagine almost all employees who have a mobile device never see the actual invoice. They might be passed a copy for information.

To me there's so many failings by so many people. But most of the blame is his. Obviously.

I'm not sure if it's his arrogance as a government minister or his ignorance of tech. I doubt he'd allow the same scenario to happen with a family members mobile. "Hey son. I've got a new cheap SIM card for you." "Nah I'll keep using the out of contact one that will be charged at their maximum rates".

[Stairway 2 7]

Did he actually claim the £11,000 on expenses or, as I suspect, it just went through the accounts team on a monthly invoice type thing? I think there's a huge difference between him claiming the money and the money being spent automatically on his behalf so to speak.

I'd imagine almost all employees who have a mobile device never see the actual invoice. They might be passed a copy for information.

To me there's so many failings by so many people. But most of the blame is his. Obviously.

I'm not sure if it's his arrogance as a government minister or his ignorance of tech. I doubt he'd allow the same scenario to happen with a family members mobile. "Hey son. I've got a new cheap SIM card for you." "Nah I'll keep using the out of contact one that will be charged at their maximum rates".

The expense was questioned at the time. He said it was all government work, the first lie as he was hotspotting to his kids who can't do government work. He then agreed that 3000 should come of his government expenses.

Perhaps the biggest problem is he lied to the press and public on Monday saying it was government usage whilst his wife told him last week about it.

It's all rubbish as any parent knows. If his boys are watching the old firm on holiday and he supports celtic too, they are going to mention they are watching it for hours.

[overdrive]

It doesn't. There were emails saying change sim we have a new contract, if he did there would be no bill. He then didn't report the travel, he then ignored the texts with the costs laid out. His bill was higher than every MP combined over the last 6 years. Him not changing sim like everyone else was the problem.

He then tried to put it as an expense. No one thought to say how the hell did you use 4 gig in one day. He repeatedly said when asked it was only used for work business, he's not daft he knows he wasn't on teams for hours on the first. Humza said he believed it was work business, again how, did he not ask the simple question how 4 gig in one day.

If he found out he created a huge bill and said sorry we were watching football I'll pay, this would be over 6 months ago

Ps he's a celtic fan did he not watch it on the 2nd

Yep, I don't think you can blame procurement as the quoted poster did. You could probably put some blame on the IT department (or whoever is responsible for managing the equipment) for not ensuring all SIMs were swapped over, especially after the FOI request somebody mentioned below. However, the vast majority of the blame must go on Mathieson.

BTW I read that he says he's a Partick Thistle fan but I don't know if he's the same sort of Partick Thistle fan as Chick Young is a St Mirren fan.

[Ozyhibby]

The expense was questioned at the time. He said it was all government work, the first lie as he was hotspotting to his kids who can't do government work. He then agreed that 3000 should come of his government expenses.

Perhaps the biggest problem is he lied to the press and public on Monday saying it was government usage whilst his wife told him last week about it.

It's all rubbish as any parent knows. If his boys are watching the old firm on holiday and he supports celtic too, they are going to mention they are watching it for hours.

Yip. It’s no longer about the usage. It’s the lying. He has to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[McD]

So £120,000,000 stolen three years ago and never returned isn't news, but £11,000 incurred and wrongly claimed on expenses one year ago and repaid this month is news, and worthy of blanket coverage on every BBC news site and TV programme for days on end. Useful to have this perspective on what people think is important in Scotland right now. You're being played.



I didn’t say it wasn’t news, I said it wasn’t happening right now, nice strawman deflection, as expected.

I’m not being played, I’m capable of understanding the difference between current happenings and past happenings, and not shrieking at every story about the snp. The single biggest reason it has been in the news for days is because the person in question has been caught lying repeatedly. If he had owned the situation either when it happened or when the news broke, it would be done by now.


I want and hope Mone is being chased for the money paid to her, and would happily see something in the news about that happening. Do you have an update to share with the rest of us that isn’t being covered in the news?

[marinello59]

Yep, I don't think you can blame procurement as the quoted poster did. You could probably put some blame on the IT department (or whoever is responsible for managing the equipment) for not ensuring all SIMs were swapped over, especially after the FOI request somebody mentioned below. However, the vast majority of the blame must go on Mathieson.

BTW I read that he says he's a Partick Thistle fan but I don't know if he's the same sort of Partick Thistle fan as Chick Young is a St Mirren fan.

The FOI request related to Scottish Government devices. This was a totally unrelated Parliamentary device.

[overdrive]

The FOI request related to Scottish Government devices. This was a totally unrelated Parliamentary device.

Ah didn't realise that.

[greenginger]

So £120,000,000 stolen three years ago and never returned isn't news, but £11,000 incurred and wrongly claimed on expenses one year ago and repaid this month is news, and worthy of blanket coverage on every BBC news site and TV programme for days on end. Useful to have this perspective on what people think is important in Scotland right now. You're being played.


https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23929373.rangers-fc-malicious-prosecution-scandal-payouts-top-60m/

Over £ 60 million now in costs and compensations for Scottish tax payers to cough up thanks to our Scottish legal system .

And the BBC aren’t on the story -yet

[grunt]

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23929373.rangers-fc-malicious-prosecution-scandal-payouts-top-60m/

Over £ 60 million now in costs and compensations for Scottish tax payers to cough up thanks to our Scottish legal system .

And the BBC aren’t on the story -yet
That's terrible. How are the SNP to blame for this?

[greenginger]

That's terrible. How are the SNP to blame for this?

The two top law officers , the Lord Advocate and the Solicitor General were appointed by the SNP government and are cabinet members of the SNP government.

But nothing to do with us - London’s fault I suppose.

[grunt]

The two top law officers , the Lord Advocate and the Solicitor General were appointed by the SNP government and are cabinet members of the SNP government.

But nothing to do with us - London’s fault I suppose.Do we not have an independent judiciary?

[greenginger]

Do we not have an independent judiciary?

The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General are in the cabinet

Cabinet responsibility. Or do we not have that in SNP Scotland.

[grunt]

The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General are in the cabinet

Cabinet responsibility. Or do we not have that in SNP Scotland.https://www.gov.scot/publications/lord-advocate-role-and-functions/


There is no concept of a Scottish "Cabinet" in the Scotland Act. The fact of a Cabinet, and the Ministers who are members of it, are matters for the First Minister. The Lord Advocate is not a member of the Cabinet but sees all Cabinet papers, and she (or in her absence the Solicitor General) attends Cabinet meetings when required. In practice this means where Cabinet is discussing a matter with a legal aspect or the operations or funding of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.

[marinello59]

The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General are in the cabinet

Cabinet responsibility. Or do we not have that in SNP Scotland.

According to the ministerial code we do have collective responsibility in the Scottish Government but there is an exception made for the Lord Advocate who can act alone when it comes to his retained functions including his role as head of the criminal prosecution system. However the waters are somewhat muddied given that they are involved in discussing all matters with some crossing over in to their area of control. That’s why we have had several calls from MSPs of all parties to make the Lord Advocate completely independent.

[marinello59]

Looks like Matheson will keep his job as the establishment closes ranks. Yousaf knew two days before us that the health minister had lied yet declared the day before the rest of us knew that the case was closed and he meant it. Straight out of the Sunak / Johnson playbook.

[Stairway 2 7]

Looks like Matheson will keep his job as the establishment closes ranks. Yousaf knew two days before us that the health minister had lied yet declared the day before the rest of us knew that the case was closed and he meant it. Straight out of the Sunak / Johnson playbook.

I think he'll quietly get a new job in a few months. No way you can have a healt sec who went in front of the press and lied deliberately, no one will trust him and this will be what he's remembered for

[Ozyhibby]

I think he'll quietly get a new job in a few months. No way you can have a healt sec who went in front of the press and lied deliberately, no one will trust him and this will be what he's remembered for

I think he’ll be gone by tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

27409

The political class

[grunt]

The political class
What do you make of the photo and the post?

[Stairway 2 7]

What do you make of the photo and the post?

Not much that I didn't know already that politicians are friendly out of chamber, that's to be expected I suppose. I'd hope 50p would be too far and I wouldn't be posing with the vile bigot.

[marinello59]

I think he’ll be gone by tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yousaf is backing his friend and this will be kicked in to the long grass for now. Other ministers are either dodging the question, complaining about the question being asked or praising Matheson’s honesty and integrity. Transparency and accountability doesn’t really matter to our entitled elite political class. How depressing. He will receive the backing of his entire party if this goes to a vote of confidence.

[grunt]

Yousaf is backing his friend and this will be kicked in to the long grass for now. Other ministers are either dodging the question, complaining about the question being asked or praising Matheson’s honesty and integrity. Transparency and accountability doesn’t really matter to our entitled elite political class. How depressing. He will receive the backing of his entire party if this goes to a vote of confidence.
You're absolutely right. It's disgraceful. Let's all ignore the bonfire catastrophe that the lying Tories are inflicting on our country, the complete trashing of a G7 economy, the highest tax burden ever, the highest level of poverty in 75 years, the stripping of our public services, the dismantling of our NHS, the cutting of benefits to the disabled unless they find work, and let's all spend another two weeks talking about a bloody iPad.

Some people have zero sense of perspective.

[McD]

You're absolutely right. It's disgraceful. Let's all ignore the bonfire catastrophe that the lying Tories are inflicting on our country, the complete trashing of a G7 economy, the highest tax burden ever, the highest level of poverty in 75 years, the stripping of our public services, the dismantling of our NHS, the cutting of benefits to the disabled unless they find work, and let's all spend another two weeks talking about a bloody iPad.

Some people have zero sense of perspective.



We’re not talking about an iPad, we’re talking about an elected minister lying, and now his boss refusing to address that. You’d rightly complain when this happened with the tories, are the snp not to be held to the same public standard? Total whataboutery.

From what you’re describing, you would be happy to let someone off with burglary because another person committed an assault, because you know, perspective, assault is worse after all. It’s completely reasonable to call out unacceptable behaviour from ALL sides.

Btw, in regards to the point your making about other things being ignored, I take you’ve not seen any of the news sites talking in the last 24 hours about highest tax burdens, cutting of benefits, G7 position, the covid commission showing publicly the ****show of the tories?


The tories should absolutely be called out, their cronies should be hauled over the coals over the PPE financial scandal (and it is a scandal). That doesn’t and shouldn’t stop any other political party or individuals being called out for their own inappropriate behaviour.

[Andy Bee]

You're absolutely right. It's disgraceful. Let's all ignore the bonfire catastrophe that the lying Tories are inflicting on our country, the complete trashing of a G7 economy, the highest tax burden ever, the highest level of poverty in 75 years, the stripping of our public services, the dismantling of our NHS, the cutting of benefits to the disabled unless they find work, and let's all spend another two weeks talking about a bloody iPad.

Some people have zero sense of perspective.


Personally I think it's a bloody disgrace, Matheson and his £225,000,000 Ipad bill, buying yachts and London properties with all his ill gotten gains, cruising around the Med without a care in the world and not a sniff of him being brought to task. This country is bolloxed.

[marinello59]

We’re not talking about an iPad, we’re talking about an elected minister lying, and now his boss refusing to address that. You’d rightly complain when this happened with the tories, are the snp not to be held to the same public standard? Total whataboutery.

From what you’re describing, you would be happy to let someone off with burglary because another person committed an assault, because you know, perspective, assault is worse after all. It’s completely reasonable to call out unacceptable behaviour from ALL sides.

Btw, in regards to the point your making about other things being ignored, I take you’ve not seen any of the news sites talking in the last 24 hours about highest tax burdens, cutting of benefits, G7 position, the covid commission showing publicly the ****show of the tories?


The tories should absolutely be called out, their cronies should be hauled over the coals over the PPE financial scandal (and it is a scandal). That doesn’t and shouldn’t stop any other political party or individuals being called out for their own inappropriate behaviour.

:agree
The abysmal behaviour of the Tory Government doesn't give politicians in other parties a free pass.

[grunt]

We’re not talking about an iPad, we’re talking about an elected minister lying, and now his boss refusing to address that. You’d rightly complain when this happened with the tories, are the snp not to be held to the same public standard? Total whataboutery.1. I am not aware it has been proved that he lied.
2. It is absolutely NOT whataboutery. I'm criticising the focus on this confected story to the exclusion of other much worse things.


From what you’re describing, you would be happy to let someone off with burglary because another person committed an assault, because you know, perspective, assault is worse after all. It’s completely reasonable to call out unacceptable behaviour from ALL sides.3. I never said that; you're putting words in my mouth. As far as I'm aware, he ran up the bill in error, and has paid, or at least committed to paying the bill. End of story.


Btw, in regards to the point your making about other things being ignored, I take you’ve not seen any of the news sites talking in the last 24 hours about highest tax burdens, cutting of benefits, G7 position, the covid commission showing publicly the ****show of the tories?

The tories should absolutely be called out, their cronies should be hauled over the coals over the PPE financial scandal (and it is a scandal). That doesn’t and shouldn’t stop any other political party or individuals being called out for their own inappropriate behaviour.4. Thanks for finally arriving at the point I've been making. These other things are not being discussed by the news media here in Scotland. The bloody iPad is still boring people senseless on the news cycles - and the post this morning (which I replied to) - wants that tedium to continue.

[Stairway 2 7]

1. I am not aware it has been proved that he lied.
2. It is absolutely NOT whataboutery. I'm criticising the focus on this confected story to the exclusion of other much worse things.

3. I never said that; you're putting words in my mouth. As far as I'm aware, he ran up the bill in error, and has paid, or at least committed to paying the bill. End of story.

4. Thanks for finally arriving at the point I've been making. These other things are not being discussed by the news media here in Scotland. The bloody iPad is still boring people senseless on the news cycles - and the post this morning (which I replied to) - wants that tedium to continue.

How can you be not aware he lied. He went to the press on the Monday and said he didn't hot spot his ipad and no one was watching football. He admitted on the Wednesday that the previous week his wife had told him about them watching football and he admitted he lied about it when asked.

He also said in March his ipad was only used for work business but he was lying as he knew he had used it to create a hotspot, his sons obviously can't do government business with that data.

If he had admitted in March and paid it would have been over and with sympathy to him. He lied to the press and public creating a story.

It's not as bad as the tories but if we can only talk about things equal or worse than billions in tory fraud then this forum will have to close due to lack of posts

[Ozyhibby]

He lied, he has to go. And it’s shameful he’s making his colleagues defend him every day in the media. He is now hurting the FM and SG and needs to do the right thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[McD]

1. I am not aware it has been proved that he lied.
2. It is absolutely NOT whataboutery. I'm criticising the focus on this confected story to the exclusion of other much worse things.

3. I never said that; you're putting words in my mouth. As far as I'm aware, he ran up the bill in error, and has paid, or at least committed to paying the bill. End of story.

4. Thanks for finally arriving at the point I've been making. These other things are not being discussed by the news media here in Scotland. The bloody iPad is still boring people senseless on the news cycles - and the post this morning (which I replied to) - wants that tedium to continue.


How can you be not aware he lied. He went to the press on the Monday and said he didn't hot spot his ipad and no one was watching football. He admitted on the Wednesday that the previous week his wife had told him about them watching football and he admitted he lied about it when asked.

He also said in March his ipad was only used for work business but he was lying as he knew he had used it to create a hotspot, his sons obviously can't do government business with that data.

If he had admitted in March and paid it would have been over and with sympathy to him. He lied to the press and public creating a story.

It's not as bad as the tories but if we can only talk about things equal or worse than billions in tory fraud then this forum will have to close due to lack of posts


S27 has addressed the lying point - not sure how you’ve missed that when you say it’s never out of the news


It is whataboutery. You’ve been all over this thread continually deflecting about what the tories have done throughout this episode, including your post that I replied to this morning.

News media here in Scotland - I live in Scotland, and haven’t had to look hard at all to see and hear the things that you say aren’t being discussed. You’re seeing what you want to see.

[McD]

He lied, he has to go. And it’s shameful he’s making his colleagues defend him every day in the media. He is now hurting the FM and SG and needs to do the right thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This.

And, for the same reasons, many tories should have and should still go. Lying in parliament (any parliament) and lying to the public are not on.

[marinello59]

He lied, he has to go. And it’s shameful he’s making his colleagues defend him every day in the media. He is now hurting the FM and SG and needs to do the right thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:agree:

[grunt]

It is whataboutery. You’ve been all over this thread continually deflecting about what the tories have done throughout this episode, including your post that I replied to this morning. No it isn't. It's about perspective. And BBC bias.

If he's lied - still to be convinced - does that mean he has to lose his job? None of you ever tell a white lie at work?

[lapsedhibee]

No it isn't. It's about perspective. And BBC bias.

If he's lied - still to be convinced - does that mean he has to lose his job? None of you ever tell a white lie at work?

Agree about the perspective, but Trump and Johnson's where you end up if lying at political work is acceptable.

[Ozyhibby]

No it isn't. It's about perspective. And BBC bias.

If he's lied - still to be convinced - does that mean he has to lose his job? None of you ever tell a white lie at work?

He was leaving his employer on the hook for £11k? That gets you instant dismissal in just about any job out there?


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[grunt]

He was leaving his employer on the hook for £11k? That gets you instant dismissal in just about any job out there?

He's paid it?

[grunt]

Agree about the perspective, but Trump and Johnson's where you end up if lying at political work is acceptable.
Only if nothing is done about it. He's been hauled up for it, has agreed to pay it back. Not enough for some people who want blood.

[Stairway 2 7]

He's paid it?

6 months after he put it on expenses. The government asked him in March if it was only government usage, he said yes. He knew he had been hot spoting the data to his kids which obviously can't be government usage, a dodgy expense claim.

He only decided to pay after massive media attention. And I'm not sure how you aren't sure if he lied. He admitted lying to the press to cover up for what had happened.

He should have paid in March he then should have walked last week after admitting to lying. He's now damaging Humza for defending him and the party. How can you have a health minister who admitted lying to the press and public.

[McD]

He's paid it?



So, lie to your work to the tune of £11k, get caught, and as long as you pay it back, that’s all good (according to you)?


There’s not another employer out there that would let someone just pay it back and no consequences for those actions.

[McD]

Only if nothing is done about it. He's been hauled up for it, has agreed to pay it back. Not enough for some people who want blood.



Again, you have an interesting view on this - should a thief be let off if they agree to give the stuff back that they’ve stolen?


And, on the same tack, if Michelle Mone agrees to pay the money back, you’ll be happy to draw a line under that? :faf:

[Ozyhibby]

He needs to go so that the real questions can be asked about how the govt is paying £11k for 6gb of data. How many other contracts are out there where this happens? It sounds like we have a massive procurement problem but all the chat is about this guy telling lies. That’s not a good thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

I see Salmond wants some more attention.

[grunt]

So, lie to your work to the tune of £11k, get caught, and as long as you pay it back, that’s all good (according to you)?
There’s not another employer out there that would let someone just pay it back and no consequences for those actions.


Again, you have an interesting view on this - should a thief be let off if they agree to give the stuff back that they’ve stolen? And, on the same tack, if Michelle Mone agrees to pay the money back, you’ll be happy to draw a line under that? :faf:
I don't agree with your take on this issue. I'm not going to change your mind and neither will you change mine.

[Stairway 2 7]

He needs to go so that the real questions can be asked about how the govt is paying £11k for 6gb of data. How many other contracts are out there where this happens? It sounds like we have a massive procurement problem but all the chat is about this guy telling lies. That’s not a good thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He apparently had two years to update his sim, multiple emails went out. Every single politician changed over. I'm sure all of us that get a work mobile have had to do the same over the years, please change your sim as we are jumping to a new contract. If he did it that would be the end of it.

Due to security government ministers are also told not to hot spot the data to other people. If he didn't there also wouldn't be a bill.

His bill was bigger than every other MSP'S bills combined over the last 3 years. There is no issue if he just switches when told.

[Stairway 2 7]

Salmond going for £3milllion and accuses sturgeon and others in the SNP of misfeasance. Many may have to appear in court

Scot Gov paid £500k in legal costs after the Court of Session ruled its handling of the complaint against him was “unlawful”.

[marinello59]

Salmond going for £3milllion and accuses sturgeon and others in the SNP of misfeasance. Many may have to appear in court

Scot Gov paid £500k in legal costs after the Court of Session ruled its handling of the complaint against him was “unlawful”.

I can see this being settled promptly without ever going to court.

[superfurryhibby]

He lied, he has to go. And it’s shameful he’s making his colleagues defend him every day in the media. He is now hurting the FM and SG and needs to do the right thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This.

He should be sacked from office, the guy is an embarrassment to the government and is damaging them by clinging on.

[Stairway 2 7]

I can see this being settled promptly without ever going to court.

I think he'll push for his show day in court, although I'm not sure that would be up to him?

[grunt]

He apparently had two years to update his sim, multiple emails went out. Every single politician changed over. I'm sure all of us that get a work mobile have had to do the same over the years, please change your sim as we are jumping to a new contract. If he did it that would be the end of it.

Due to security government ministers are also told not to hot spot the data to other people. If he didn't there also wouldn't be a bill.

His bill was bigger than every other MSP'S bills combined over the last 3 years. There is no issue if he just switches when told.Agree with all of this. Still not a resigning matter.

[greenginger]

Salmond going for £3milllion and accuses sturgeon and others in the SNP of misfeasance. Many may have to appear in court

Scot Gov paid £500k in legal costs after the Court of Session ruled its handling of the complaint against him was “unlawful”.


So if Salmond wins or agrees a settlement , who pays , the SNP or the the Scottish Government , in other words us the mug tax payers

[Stairway 2 7]

Agree with all of this. Still not a resigning matter.

I'm mixed on losing his job, definitely can't be a minister. He shouldn't have put it on expenses. It was just a daft mistake he made not changing sim and hot spoting. He seriously messed up lying to the press after he knew how it had happened. Its not a normal job though and he will effect the party wherever he stands and is also harming the party the longer this goes on

Fwiw I believe he's a very good politician and do feel sorry for him it's clearly affecting him

[grunt]

I'm mixed on losing his job, definitely can't be a minister. He shouldn't have put it on expenses. It was just a daft mistake he made not changing sim and hot spoting. He seriously messed up lying to the press after he knew how it had happened. Its not a normal job though and he will effect the party wherever he stands and is also harming the party the longer this goes on

Fwiw I believe he's a very good politician and do feel sorry for him it's clearly affecting him
I don't think he did claim it on expenses. I think the bills were automatically paid from the centre, AFAIK he didn't know anything about it until a review identified his high charge.

[lapsedhibee]

Only if nothing is done about it. He's been hauled up for it, has agreed to pay it back. Not enough for some people who want blood.

He hasn't been hauled up for lying. At all.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think he did claim it on expenses. I think the bills were automatically paid from the centre, AFAIK he didn't know anything about it until a review identified his high charge.

They pulled him up in March about the bill. He said it was all government business which wasn't true as he was letting his kids use the data. He then agreed to use 3k of his expenses to cover it.

It probably would have ended there if the press hadn't found out this month

[grunt]

They pulled him up in March about the bill. He said it was all government business which wasn't true as he was letting his kids use the data. He then agreed to use 3k of his expenses to cover it.

It probably would have ended there if the press hadn't found out this monthHe should have paid it all back in March, in that case. He's an eejit.

[grunt]

He hasn't been hauled up for lying. At all.
Well he should be hauled up for it, if indeed he has lied. And he should apologise.

[McD]

I don't agree with your take on this issue. I'm not going to change your mind and neither will you change mine.



That’s fair enough mate :aok:

[Just Alf]

Again!

Can't work out what the 'new' news about them is though :dunno:

BBC News - Taxpayers 'robbed' by over-budget ferries - Labour peer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67525626

[marinello59]

Again!

Can't work out what the 'new' news about them is though :dunno:

BBC News - Taxpayers 'robbed' by over-budget ferries - Labour peer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67525626

The ‘ new’ news is that the Scottish Government intends to directly award the new contract for Island services to Cal Mac without it going out to tender. And yet again the views of the people who actually live on the islands are ignored. Robertson is right, more power should be devolved to the islands themselves.
Sometimes it’s worth reading beyond the headline.

[grunt]

The ‘ new’ news is that the Scottish Government intends to directly award the new contract for Island services to Cal Mac without it going out to tender.
Guaranteed if the work was put out to tender and some Swedish yard won it, SG would be criticised for not supporting Scottish jobs.

[grunt]

Robertson is right, more power should be devolved to the islands themselves.
I'm a bit confused by Robertson's comments. Not for the first time. He complains that "we used to build great liners" but at the same time he's complaining about giving work to our one remaining shipyard. Does he want that one to disappear as well?

[marinello59]

I think he'll push for his show day in court, although I'm not sure that would be up to him?

Looks like you are right, he wants Sturgeon and others in the witness box. Apparently proving misfeasance is incredibly difficult so this may prove to be a costly mistake by him. The man is an absolute disgrace but impossible to ignore.

[grunt]

Looks like you are right, he wants Sturgeon and others in the witness box. Apparently proving misfeasance is incredibly difficult so this may prove to be a costly mistake by him. The man is an absolute disgrace but impossible to ignore.
:agree:

Wonder what happened between him and Sturgeon to make him so seemingly vengeful.

[Just Alf]

Sometimes it’s worth reading beyond the headline.

Fair point, glanced over it on the bus :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

On the subject of ferries and apologies if this should be on a new thread. Can anyone shed any light on why the SG or CMAL or CalMac or whoever it is are so against building catamarans and are more in favour of mono hull ferries? I've watched and listened to various interviews on the subject and it seems to be a no brainer on the advantages of cats over mono hulls, namely half the price to build, half the price to run, double the speed, half the time to build and I think double the payload IIRC. Stuart Ballantyne who seems to have a very good pedigree in ship design and building had put together an £800m plan for 50 cats to serve the islands and create jobs for Clyde shipbuilders only to have that plan rejected this year and for the life of me I can't understand why.

[greenlex]

On the subject of ferries and apologies if this should be on a new thread. Can anyone shed any light on why the SG or CMAL or CalMac or whoever it is are so against building catamarans and are more in favour of mono hull ferries? I've watched and listened to various interviews on the subject and it seems to be a no brainer on the advantages of cats over mono hulls, namely half the price to build, half the price to run, double the speed, half the time to build and I think double the payload IIRC. Stuart Ballantyne who seems to have a very good pedigree in ship design and building had put together an £800m plan for 50 cats to serve the islands and create jobs for Clyde shipbuilders only to have that plan rejected this year and for the life of me I can't understand why.
Might be to do with the ports not suitable? Just as likely to be brown envelope syndrome tho.

[grunt]

On the subject of ferries and apologies if this should be on a new thread. Can anyone shed any light on why the SG or CMAL or CalMac or whoever it is are so against building catamarans and are more in favour of mono hull ferries?
Good question. The ferry between St Margaret's Hope and Gills Bay is a catamaran, seems to handle the Pentland Firth seas ok.

[Ozyhibby]

On the subject of ferries and apologies if this should be on a new thread. Can anyone shed any light on why the SG or CMAL or CalMac or whoever it is are so against building catamarans and are more in favour of mono hull ferries? I've watched and listened to various interviews on the subject and it seems to be a no brainer on the advantages of cats over mono hulls, namely half the price to build, half the price to run, double the speed, half the time to build and I think double the payload IIRC. Stuart Ballantyne who seems to have a very good pedigree in ship design and building had put together an £800m plan for 50 cats to serve the islands and create jobs for Clyde shipbuilders only to have that plan rejected this year and for the life of me I can't understand why.

Even better if they built some bridges. [emoji106]


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[Moulin Yarns]

Even better if they built some bridges. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tunnels, no weather problem.

[Hibs4185]

Looks like you are right, he wants Sturgeon and others in the witness box. Apparently proving misfeasance is incredibly difficult so this may prove to be a costly mistake by him. The man is an absolute disgrace but impossible to ignore.

I think he crowdfunded his last legal costs during the sex pest case.

Wouldn’t surprise me if his costs are being paid again. Don’t think he would try it because it could be a big financial hit

[Ryan91]

On the subject of ferries and apologies if this should be on a new thread. Can anyone shed any light on why the SG or CMAL or CalMac or whoever it is are so against building catamarans and are more in favour of mono hull ferries? I've watched and listened to various interviews on the subject and it seems to be a no brainer on the advantages of cats over mono hulls, namely half the price to build, half the price to run, double the speed, half the time to build and I think double the payload IIRC. Stuart Ballantyne who seems to have a very good pedigree in ship design and building had put together an £800m plan for 50 cats to serve the islands and create jobs for Clyde shipbuilders only to have that plan rejected this year and for the life of me I can't understand why.

Think that most of the Linkspans at the ports are designed with monohull designs in mind and there would need to be significant work done to reconfigure them to work with catamaran designs.

[Andy Bee]

Think that most of the Linkspans at the ports are designed with monohull designs in mind and there would need to be significant work done to reconfigure them to work with catamaran designs.


Apparently they can use the same infrastructure, it's a matter of designing the off ramp on the cat to match the ports it's servicing. I listened to an interview with Balantyne and he states that very few ports would need altering and they'd be retrofitted quite easily and cheaply if needs be. Dr Alf Baird gives a presentation on the advantages of catamarans on Orkney (https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/01/17/a-presentation-on-ferry-options/)

[Just Alf]

It was a long time ago but I vaguely remember reading that for ferries, catamaran hulls would have more weather related down time compared to normal designs on more exposed routes due to heavier swell/waves off the Atlantic. On the other hand they were the better option for near shore or less exposed journeys.

Stuck in my mind since then and never thought to check if that's actually true or not mind!

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1729829029576860112?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

You just know it wasn’t. He needs to go.


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[grunt]

https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1729829029576860112?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

You just know it wasn’t. He needs to go.
Really important vital question. Because no one in Scotland ever watches football matches other than on a legal stream.

[Ozyhibby]

Really important vital question. Because no one in Scotland ever watches football matches other than on a legal stream.

A Scottish minister can’t go breaking the law and be seen to undermine the business model of the national game.


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[grunt]

A Scottish minister can’t go breaking the law and be seen to undermine the business model of the national game.

I'm so glad that people in Scotland are focussing on the important issues of the day.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm so glad that people in Scotland are focussing on the important issues of the day.

That’s my point. The SG can’t focus on important matters while he is in post.


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[Just Alf]

I thought it was one of the kids that watched on thier own phone/ipad?

Apologies if I've missed summat somewhere

[grunt]

I thought it was one of the kids that watched on thier own phone/ipad?
Completely irrelevant! Sack him anyway.

[Stairway 2 7]

I thought it was one of the kids that watched on thier own phone/ipad?

Apologies if I've missed summat somewhere

Yes but he let them hotspot his Internet allowance, he needed to let that happen. Government data is for government usage. He said it was when the fine came up, but he obviously knew it wasn't.

It's getting to be a ridiculous distraction. He obviously can't go on being a minister after lying to the press pack

[grunt]

Yes but he let them hotspot his Internet allowance, he needed to let that happen. Government data is for government usage.
Sack him!! Parade his children through the streets of Paisley, and have the populace throw rotten eggs at him and his family. Hang him!!

[Just Alf]

Yes but he let them hotspot his Internet allowance, he needed to let that happen. Government data is for government usage. He said it was when the fine came up, but he obviously knew it wasn't.

It's getting to be a ridiculous distraction. He obviously can't go on being a minister after lying to the press packThe posts I was reading seemed to suggest he should be on the hook for watching an illegal stream as that wasn't becoming of a minister (and it wouldn't be if that was the case)



On another related point... assuming (I know, I know) ... the kids watched the game and maybe did a few other things of a night, with the majority of the usage TIME being official, I could understand why he'd think paying £3k out of the 11 was a fair offer. Clearly that doesn't take into account its actually data not time that's measured.

Maybe he knew the way it actually works and was just thinking of a way to get away with it? :dunno:

[marinello59]

Yes but he let them hotspot his Internet allowance, he needed to let that happen. Government data is for government usage. He said it was when the fine came up, but he obviously knew it wasn't.

It's getting to be a ridiculous distraction. He obviously can't go on being a minister after lying to the press pack

He can because his leader is giving him his full backing. Basically they don't care what people think, they expect to be voted back in regardless.

[grunt]

He can because his leader is giving him his full backing. Basically they don't care what people think, they expect to be voted back in regardless.
They seem to care what I think.

[Stairway 2 7]

Sack him!! Parade his children through the streets of Paisley, and have the populace throw rotten eggs at him and his family. Hang him!!

Yeah agree with sack him as he lied when putting in an expense claim, saying he didn't hotspot when he knew he did. He lied a second time saying to press six months later that he hadn't watched football and either did his family, although he admitted his wife had told him before this.

The other three things you say are ludicrous and a sacking would do

[Jack]

Yeah agree with sack him as he lied when putting in an expense claim, saying he didn't hotspot when he knew he did. He lied a second time saying to press six months later that he hadn't watched football and either did his family, although he admitted his wife had told him before this.

The other three things you say are ludicrous and a sacking would do

Has it been established he actually made a claim?

[Stairway 2 7]

Has it been established he actually made a claim?

Well he got queried about the bill in March, they said it was 11k. He said it was all parliamentary business, it couldn't be if he was hot spoting. He said since it was large and he hadn't changed the sim as supposed to, he would pay (we would) 3k from his government expenses.

[Jack]

Well he got queried about the bill in March, they said it was 11k. He said it was all parliamentary business, it couldn't be if he was hot spoting. He said since it was large and he hadn't changed the sim as supposed to, he would pay (we would) 3k from his government expenses.

So he didn't claim it as an expense. I think most would agree its an important difference.

[Stairway 2 7]

So he didn't claim it as an expense. I think most would agree its an important difference.

No he definitely did. He claimed 3k of it as an expense under false pretence. He knew it wasn't ministerial business but filled the 3k claim and hoped it would be forgotten. The papers got a hold of it 6 months later.

I think some people think he offered to pay the 3k himself but it was an expense claim. He offered to pay it him after a week of pressure

[Callum_62]

No he definitely did. He claimed 3k of it as an expense under false pretence. He knew it wasn't ministerial business but filled the 3k claim and hoped it would be forgotten. The papers got a hold of it 6 months later.

I think some people think he offered to pay the 3k himself but it was an expense claim. He offered to pay it him after a week of pressureI've not really followed this but are all govt ministers on their own personal plan and pay for that as an out of pocket and claim back in the form of expenses?


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[Stairway 2 7]

I've not really followed this but are all govt ministers on their own personal plan and pay for that as an out of pocket and claim back in the form of expenses?


Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

No government pays and they wouldn't normally know about their bill. It was only because his bill was large and was queried that he found out and then offered to pay some from expenses

[Stairway 2 7]

Notice the papers are saying too SNP politicians were having an affair which meant they broke covid rules. Normally you would say its a personal matter, but breaking covid rules makes it different. Boris was rightly fined for breaking the rules with his birthday party, SNP called for his sacking.

More importantly SNP were saying Hancocks affair was in the publics interest.

I personally don't think it's in the public interest

[Ozyhibby]

Notice the papers are saying too SNP politicians were having an affair which meant they broke covid rules. Normally you would say its a personal matter, but breaking covid rules makes it different. Boris was rightly fined for breaking the rules with his birthday party, SNP called for his sacking.

More importantly SNP were saying Hancocks affair was in the publics interest.

I personally don't think it's in the public interest

Affair is fine, breaking covid rules is not. No exceptions.


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[grunt]

No exceptions.
It must be nice to live in a world with such simple views on every topic under the sun.

[Ozyhibby]

It must be nice to live in a world with such simple views on every topic under the sun.

So it’s ok to lock down the whole country but not abide by those same rules? One law for the plebs and another for the elite?


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[RyeSloan]

So it’s ok to lock down the whole country but not abide by those same rules? One law for the plebs and another for the elite?


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Course not but someone somewhere will have done worse so surely that’s the real issue and quite why thats not the front page news says it all….

(Did I get that riposte correct? [emoji83])

[grunt]

So it’s ok to lock down the whole country but not abide by those same rules? One law for the plebs and another for the elite?


Course not but someone somewhere will have done worse so surely that’s the real issue and quite why thats not the front page news says it all….

(Did I get that riposte correct? [emoji83])
Neither of these comments reflect what I said. I was criticising Ozy (who's usually sensible) for coming out with a definite blanket statement that something was wrong ("no exceptions") when he doesn't have any information about it other than a brief post on here.

[grunt]

(Did I get that riposte correct? [emoji83])No. Hope that helps.

[cabbageandribs1875]

thank goodness, he could easily have faced calls for a sacking, good that there was rightly a four-month long investigation though, now about all the tax payers money given to friends and donors of the Tory party for worthless PPE, that's maybe not as serious as the 28p of stationary but, well :)

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/406651930_6975356999187738_4908315556629455006_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=524774&_nc_ohc=wpzdyY8WcpsAX_x9cbt&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBnhuhEXH5Z_DlI-J5liZfhdgk2B4yBejbB7wUaEG2Zxw&oe=656D36CA

[lapsedhibee]

thank goodness, he could easily have faced calls for a sacking, good that there was rightly a four-month long investigation though, now about all the tax payers money given to friends and donors of the Tory party for worthless PPE, that's maybe not as serious as the 28p of stationary but, well :)

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/406651930_6975356999187738_4908315556629455006_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=524774&_nc_ohc=wpzdyY8WcpsAX_x9cbt&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBnhuhEXH5Z_DlI-J5liZfhdgk2B4yBejbB7wUaEG2Zxw&oe=656D36CA

Should immediately be another inquiry in to his use of the word stationary.

[greenginger]

Should immediately be another inquiry in to his use of the word stationary.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/290/committee-on-standards/news/198755/the-committee-on-standards-has-today-released-a-report-on-the-conduct-of-stephen-flynn-mp/#:~:text=The%20Commissioner%20opened%20his%20inves tigation,use%20in%20their%20parliamentary%20duties .

If Flynn had simply apologised for using House of Commons stationary for party political purpose , there would have been no inquiry.

Its Flynn who made a big issue out of nothing

[CropleyWasGod]

Should immediately be another inquiry in to his use of the word stationary.

Stop.

[grunt]

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/290/committee-on-standards/news/198755/the-committee-on-standards-has-today-released-a-report-on-the-conduct-of-stephen-flynn-mp/#:~:text=The%20Commissioner%20opened%20his%20inves tigation,use%20in%20their%20parliamentary%20duties .

If Flynn had simply apologised for using House of Commons stationary for party political purpose , there would have been no inquiry.

It's Flynn who made a big issue out of nothingHe said he wasn't using the stationery* for party political purposes. So why should he apologise? Would you apologise if you'd done nothing wrong?

[greenginger]

He said he wasn't using the stationery* for party political purposes. So why should he apologise? Would you apologise if you'd done nothing wrong?

It was the Commissioners opinion that the stationary had been used for party political purposes (pretty obvious from description given) and that Flynn breached the Houses code of conduct.

Suppose Flynn didn’t believe rules made in Westminster applied to him.

[RyeSloan]

Stop.

[emoji1787][emoji1787] very good [emoji736]

[grunt]

It was the Commissioners opinion that the stationary had been used for party political purposes (pretty obvious from description given) and that Flynn breached the Houses code of conduct.

Suppose Flynn didn’t believe rules made in Westminster applied to him.
You've not answered my question. No matter.

[greenginger]

You've not answered my question. No matter.

The point is Flynn did something wrong and should have known it.

What I would do is of no consequence.

[Stairway 2 7]

Surprised no posts on the PISA results, results of education standards across the world.

Tony Blair said education education education Nicola Sturgeon said when bringing in the new radical curriculum for excellence in 2015 2015: "Let me be clear – I want to be judged on this. If you are not, as First Minister, prepared to put your neck on the line on the education of our young people then what are you prepared to."


Well surely it's time to admit what many in education have been saying, curriculum for excellence is a disaster. Pre SNP Scotland was well above England for maths, reading and science. It's now well below and worryingly it's dropping fast.

Uk when grouping maths and English is about at the top in Europe and ahead of most in Western Europe there is no shame in copying that, its too important
Uk is above the worldwide OECD average for maths and science but Scotland is now bellow

27447

https://archive.ph/myXxZ

[Ozyhibby]

Surprised no posts on the PISA results, results of education standards across the world.

Tony Blair said education education education Nicola Sturgeon said when bringing in the new radical curriculum for excellence in 2015 2015: "Let me be clear – I want to be judged on this. If you are not, as First Minister, prepared to put your neck on the line on the education of our young people then what are you prepared to."


Well surely it's time to admit what many in education have been saying, curriculum for excellence is a disaster. Pre SNP Scotland was well above England for maths, reading and science. It's now well below and worryingly it's dropping fast.

Uk when grouping maths and English is about at the top in Europe and ahead of most in Western Europe there is no shame in copying that, its too important
Uk is above the worldwide OECD average for maths and science but Scotland is now bellow

27447

https://archive.ph/myXxZ

I agree on this. Education too important to be below average at.


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[marinello59]

Surprised no posts on the PISA results, results of education standards across the world.

Tony Blair said education education education Nicola Sturgeon said when bringing in the new radical curriculum for excellence in 2015 2015: "Let me be clear – I want to be judged on this. If you are not, as First Minister, prepared to put your neck on the line on the education of our young people then what are you prepared to."


Well surely it's time to admit what many in education have been saying, curriculum for excellence is a disaster. Pre SNP Scotland was well above England for maths, reading and science. It's now well below and worryingly it's dropping fast.

Uk when grouping maths and English is about at the top in Europe and ahead of most in Western Europe there is no shame in copying that, its too important
Uk is above the worldwide OECD average for maths and science but Scotland is now bellow

27447

https://archive.ph/myXxZ

Sturgeon’s failure to deliver laid bare.
The more worrying thing is the Scottish Goverment’s laid back reaction to the results. Nobody seems to care that much.

[marinello59]

Our Government talks transparency but tries to avoid it at every turn. Yet another needless and expensive court battle.

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-ministers-lose-appeal-against-disclosure-of-nicola-sturgeon-inquiry-evidence-13024225

[Jack]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence but I saw on the front page of the Hootsman this morning that MSPs must tell the parliamentary authorities if they're planning on taking their mobile device abroad over Christmas.

Today I received an email from my mobile data provider reminding me to check out what data roaming was included in my plan and to buy a bolt on if going outside my free roaming area over the Festive period.

[cabbageandribs1875]

so what has wee willie rennie been up to, another Libdem that picks on women (2) Emma Walker (@EmmaWalkerCEO) / X (twitter.com) (https://twitter.com/EmmaWalkerCEO) and it's not like co*k-hamilton to lie eh