David Goodwillie

[Brightside]

Just to be clear btw, I have no real issue with people not wanting him at their club, be that fans, sponsors, other players etc. My issue is with people like Nicola Sturgeon and the Glasgow council woman, two senior political figures, getting involved to try and ensure this guy can’t work in certain jobs despite having no criminal convictions. It’s an abuse of power on their part and the only plausible reason for it coming out is Nicola Sturgeon backing someone who conveniently donates to her party and the Glasgow councillor jumping on the bandwagon because Nicola Sturgeon got involved previously.

Or some people with a sense of decency.

[Smartie]

Just to be clear btw, I have no real issue with people not wanting him at their club, be that fans, sponsors, other players etc. My issue is with people like Nicola Sturgeon and the Glasgow council woman, two senior political figures, getting involved to try and ensure this guy can’t work in certain jobs despite having no criminal convictions. It’s an abuse of power on their part and the only plausible reason for it coming out is Nicola Sturgeon backing someone who conveniently donates to her party and the Glasgow councillor jumping on the bandwagon because Nicola Sturgeon got involved previously.

You think it's about donations rather than Sturgeon (who iirc holds a law degree) holding an opinion that Goodwillie shouldn't be allowed to be paid to play football after having been found guilty of rape in a civil court?

It's a moral dilemma, some will think one way, some will think the other and hers isn't an unreasonable position to hold.

The "why not now if he could earlier" is a fair point but there was definitely a shift in opinion over that time regarding males and inappropriate sexual activity, and I'm sure there was a fair stooshie when he initially joined Clyde.

And is it that unreasonable for Sturgeon to be forced into holding an opinion when here pal bangs her door down screaming for an intervention when the same may not have happened when he joined Clyde?

[HoboHarry]

Or some people with a sense of decency.

That's not something found in very many politicians. The notion of that pair trying to claim the moral high ground is risible.

[Brightside]

That's not something found in very many politicians. The notion of that pair trying to claim the moral high ground is riseable.

I think when it comes to supporting women she’s in a pretty good place.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Or some people with a sense of decency.

Decency which of course doesn’t extend to any of the other people who have commited deplorable acts that continue to be employed within our game. Funny that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You think it's about donations rather than Sturgeon (who iirc holds a law degree) holding an opinion that Goodwillie shouldn't be allowed to be paid to play football after having been found guilty of rape in a civil court?

It's a moral dilemma, some will think one way, some will think the other and hers isn't an unreasonable position to hold.

The "why not now if he could earlier" is a fair point but there was definitely a shift in opinion over that time regarding males and inappropriate sexual activity, and I'm sure there was a fair stooshie when he initially joined Clyde.

And is it that unreasonable for Sturgeon to be forced into holding an opinion when here pal bangs her door down screaming for an intervention when the same may not have happened when he joined Clyde?

If it wasn’t about donations then where was she when Gallagher came back into football? Where was she when Boyle and Newell were drink driving? Where was she when the numerous other people in our game who have commited a crime were getting moves/contracts/playing.

Funnily enough, there was no SNP donors that were outraged when Newell/Boyle/Martindale/Mackay/Gallagher signed/for new contracts/got away with carrying on playing and lo and behold, there was no statement from Sturgeon. In her statement she references zero tolerance approaches numerous times, where was her desire for a zero tolerance approach when these people who have actually been convicted of crimes are playing?

Has she ever actually commented on whether anyone other than Goodwillie should be playing football? She never even commented when Craig Thomson, a convicted child sex offender was playing, again, there was no outcry from an SNP donor though.

I think that is unreasonable, yes. She was the most powerful person in Scotland at the time. If she can’t tell VMc that it wouldn’t be appropriate for her to get involved then I’d suggest she’s not suitable for that kind of role.

[Smartie]

If it wasn’t about donations then where was she when Gallagher came back into football? Where was she when Boyle and Newell were drink driving? Where was she when the numerous other people in our game who have commited a crime were getting moves/contracts/playing.

Funnily enough, there was no SNP donors that were outraged when Newell/Boyle/Martindale/Mackay/Gallagher signed/for new contracts/got away with carrying on playing and lo and behold, there was no statement from Sturgeon. In her statement she references zero tolerance approaches numerous times, where was her desire for a zero tolerance approach when these people who have actually been convicted of crimes are playing?

I think that is unreasonable, yes. She was the most powerful person in Scotland at the time. If she can’t tell VMc that it wouldn’t be appropriate for her to get involved then I’d suggest she’s not suitable for that kind of role.

There are no hard and fast rules (I don't think) but players have in the past been allowed to resume playing after drink driving, violent offences and drugs convictions albeit having been heavily punished along the way.

If we're talking similar(ish) offences, life in football post-conviction hasn't exactly been a bed of roses for Ched Evans, Adam Johnson or Craig Thomson albeit with some blurred lines.

[McD]

You think it's about donations rather than Sturgeon (who iirc holds a law degree) holding an opinion that Goodwillie shouldn't be allowed to be paid to play football after having been found guilty of rape in a civil court?

It's a moral dilemma, some will think one way, some will think the other and hers isn't an unreasonable position to hold.

The "why not now if he could earlier" is a fair point but there was definitely a shift in opinion over that time regarding males and inappropriate sexual activity, and I'm sure there was a fair stooshie when he initially joined Clyde.

And is it that unreasonable for Sturgeon to be forced into holding an opinion when here pal bangs her door down screaming for an intervention when the same may not have happened when he joined Clyde?


If it wasn’t about donations then where was she when Gallagher came back into football? Where was she when Boyle and Newell were drink driving? Where was she when the numerous other people in our game who have commited a crime were getting moves/contracts/playing.

Funnily enough, there was no SNP donors that were outraged when Newell/Boyle/Martindale/Mackay/Gallagher signed/for new contracts/got away with carrying on playing and lo and behold, there was no statement from Sturgeon. In her statement she references zero tolerance approaches numerous times, where was her desire for a zero tolerance approach when these people who have actually been convicted of crimes are playing?

Has she ever actually commented on whether anyone other than Goodwillie should be playing football? She never even commented when Craig Thomson, a convicted child sex offender was playing, again, there was no outcry from an SNP donor though.

I think that is unreasonable, yes. She was the most powerful person in Scotland at the time. If she can’t tell VMc that it wouldn’t be appropriate for her to get involved then I’d suggest she’s not suitable for that kind of role.


I could be wrong here, but I don’t remember anything about V McD asking NS to get involved (as I said, could be totally wrong).

my recollection is Val directing her ire at Raith Rovers, and withdrawing her financial support, not asking for interventions from NS or scotgov

[Pretty Boy]

You think it's about donations rather than Sturgeon (who iirc holds a law degree) holding an opinion that Goodwillie shouldn't be allowed to be paid to play football after having been found guilty of rape in a civil court?

It's a moral dilemma, some will think one way, some will think the other and hers isn't an unreasonable position to hold.

The "why not now if he could earlier" is a fair point but there was definitely a shift in opinion over that time regarding males and inappropriate sexual activity, and I'm sure there was a fair stooshie when he initially joined Clyde.

And is it that unreasonable for Sturgeon to be forced into holding an opinion when here pal bangs her door down screaming for an intervention when the same may not have happened when he joined Clyde?

It's worth remembering there was a reaction when he joined Clyde as well, both from the local MP in a political sense and from their fans. After Goodwillie signed for Raith there was a Clyde fan who wrote a very eloquent and passionate open letter saying how happy he was that he was now able to go back and support his team because Goodwillie had left. I've no idea if he was a solitary voice or if there were others, maybe if there was disquiet among a section of the Clyde support they would have had more of a voice had they had someone with the profile of Val McDermid to shine a spotlight on them. Bear in mind the Raith womens team walked out en masse when Goodwillie signed as well, that was clearly a collective decision and suggests a group of people felt strongly about it rather than it being solely a politically motivated witch hunt. Val McDermid was also a decent financial contributor to the football club, she is entitled to spend her money as she sees fit and if she wasn't willing to give money to her club whilst a rapist was on their payroll then that is her right.

The world has changed rapidly in the last few years in regards to women standing up to intimidation, harassment, sexual assault and violence and in that regard it's changed for the better. Maybe it's just the case that collectively an increased number of women, and allies of women, were more willing and felt more empowered to stand up and speak out 6 years down the line when Goodwillie hit the headlines again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I could be wrong here, but I don’t remember anything about V McD asking NS to get involved (as I said, could be totally wrong).

my recollection is Val directing her ire at Raith Rovers, and withdrawing her financial support, not asking for interventions from NS or scotgov

I’ve no idea if she did or not. Like I said, I’ve no issue with VMc or that she decided to withdraw her support, she’s entitled to do that.

NS, whether asked to or not though, should never have been involved. If she hadn’t got involved then I fully expect Goodwillie would still be playing football, much like all the actual convicted criminals in our game are still doing that didn’t have the misfortune of a party donor being up in arms about them personally.

[Brightside]

He’s a rapist. I’m delighted NS got involved. Please highlight more for her to get involved in.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He’s a rapist. I’m delighted NS got involved. Please highlight more for her to get involved in.

There’s been plenty issues highlighted on this thread for her to get involved in, even one with a convicted child sex offender at the centre of it, all of them fairly well known cases. She doesn’t appear to have any appetite for it unless her donors do, that’s the only time her zero tolerance approach appears to matter.

[Stairway 2 7]

He’s a rapist. I’m delighted NS got involved. Please highlight more for her to get involved in.

I've not much knowledge of the case. Is there information you have I could read for you to be sure he is, not being arsenal genuinely interested.

Is it based on her being too drunk, is his excuse they were both too drunk to remember anything?

[Paulie Walnuts]

I've not much knowledge of the case. Is there information you have I could read for you to be sure he is, not being arsenal genuinely interested.

Is it based on her being too drunk, is his excuse they were both too drunk to remember anything?

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=d22e28a7-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

[weecounty hibby]

If he signed for Hibs I wouldn't be back. There is a limit to what fans will put up with from players and that for me would be a red line. And I think that is probably why the other clubs involved have pulled back from employing him, fans backlash and bad publicity leading to sponsors leaving is never good.
The last time this came up I read the evidence given in the civil case. Would it have convicted him? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think he raped that poor woman when she was so drunk she didn't know what was happening? Yes I do, 100%.
Three separate assault convictions against him where drink is involved shows what he is capable of when drinking.

And it was only a matter of time really. We've gone from Goodwillie being a rapist, to being the victim in all of this via a **** interviewer to it now being all Nicola Sturgeon's fault that he cant play football.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If he signed for Hibs I wouldn't be back. There is a limit to what fans will put up with from players and that for me would be a red line. And I think that is probably why the other clubs involved have pulled back from employing him, fans backlash and bad publicity leading to sponsors leaving is never good.
The last time this came up I read the evidence given in the civil case. Would it have convicted him? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think he raped that poor woman when she was so drunk she didn't know what was happening? Yes I do, 100%.
Three separate assault convictions against him where drink is involved shows what he is capable of when drinking.

And it was only a matter of time really. We've gone from Goodwillie being a rapist, to being the victim in all of this via a **** interviewer to it now being all Nicola Sturgeon's fault that he cant play football.

It’s hard to argue it’s not Sturgeons fault.

Until she got involved he was playing football. Funnily enough, he has no criminal record and could be employed in near enough any job in the world, potentially even in a school with kids? Why is she not outraged that he’s working as an electrician where there’s much more chance of him being left alone with a woman?

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66298242

Calls now being made for the criminal case to be re-opened.

Anyone know what David Robertson went on to do when he retired from football after the civil case? Goodwillie continuing (or trying to continue) playing football seems to be the contentious issue here (despite the fact he did so for several years with relatively little comment).

[weecounty hibby]

It’s hard to argue it’s not Sturgeons fault.

Until she got involved he was playing football. Funnily enough, he has no criminal record and could be employed in near enough any job in the world, potentially even in a school with kids? Why is she not outraged that he’s working as an electrician where there’s much more chance of him being left alone with a woman?
So it is all a woman's fault? And has been posted before, Jimmy Saville hasn't got a criminal record either. I'm out of this "debate"

[He's here!]

If he signed for Hibs I wouldn't be back. There is a limit to what fans will put up with from players and that for me would be a red line. And I think that is probably why the other clubs involved have pulled back from employing him, fans backlash and bad publicity leading to sponsors leaving is never good.
The last time this came up I read the evidence given in the civil case. Would it have convicted him? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think he raped that poor woman when she was so drunk she didn't know what was happening? Yes I do, 100%.
Three separate assault convictions against him where drink is involved shows what he is capable of when drinking.

And it was only a matter of time really. We've gone from Goodwillie being a rapist, to being the victim in all of this via a **** interviewer to it now being all Nicola Sturgeon's fault that he cant play football.

I think it would be a red line for many fans although I do recall being at ER the week the John Leslie allegations broke and the old East chanting 'There's only one John Leslie'. Different times, but another high profile figure never convicted of anything yet unable to rebuild his career.

[Since452]

I think it would be a red line for many fans although I do recall being at ER the week the John Leslie allegations broke and the old East chanting 'There's only one John Leslie'. Different times, but another high profile figure never convicted of anything yet unable to rebuild his career.

Off topic but anyone remember Hibs being on Blue Peter? Leslie went to a game at Easter Road. Nobody I've mentioned it to seems to remember. Maybe I'm making it up 🤷🏻*♂️

[MWHIBBIES]

It’s hard to argue it’s not Sturgeons fault.

Until she got involved he was playing football. Funnily enough, he has no criminal record and could be employed in near enough any job in the world, potentially even in a school with kids? Why is she not outraged that he’s working as an electrician where there’s much more chance of him being left alone with a woman?

Really does depend on what type of company and work he was with/doing.

Industrial or commercial spark/sparks mate? Basically zero chance he is alone with a woman.

FWIW, I think **** him. He is a ned bam even aside from the rape. Had plenty of chances not to be a dickhead.

[Allant1981]

It’s hard to argue it’s not Sturgeons fault.

Until she got involved he was playing football. Funnily enough, he has no criminal record and could be employed in near enough any job in the world, potentially even in a school with kids? Why is she not outraged that he’s working as an electrician where there’s much more chance of him being left alone with a woman?

He has been convicted of assault previously despite initially pleading not guilty

[He's here!]

Off topic but anyone remember Hibs being on Blue Peter? Leslie went to a game at Easter Road. Nobody I've mentioned it to seems to remember. Maybe I'm making it up 🤷🏻*♂️

Not sure about that but he wore a Hands Off Hibs T shirt on Blue Peter during the Mercer takeover bid.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He has been convicted of assault previously despite initially pleading not guilty

They’re spent convictions, he has none now.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Really does depend on what type of company and work he was with/doing.

Industrial or commercial spark/sparks mate? Basically zero chance he is alone with a woman.

FWIW, I think **** him. He is a ned bam even aside from the rape. Had plenty of chances not to be a dickhead.

Don’t disagree with your last point :agree:

[Allant1981]

They’re spent convictions, he has none now.

Doesn't really matter depending on the type of place he wants to work

[He's here!]

Really does depend on what type of company and work he was with/doing.

Industrial or commercial spark/sparks mate? Basically zero chance he is alone with a woman.

FWIW, I think **** him. He is a ned bam even aside from the rape. Had plenty of chances not to be a dickhead.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17970153.danny-lennon-hails-perfect-professional-david-goodwillie-getting-life-track-rape-shame/

Danny Lennon couldn't have been more praiseworthy of him, calling him a 'model pro'.

I hadn't realised (or had forgotten) he's now married with a young child.

[Allant1981]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17970153.danny-lennon-hails-perfect-professional-david-goodwillie-getting-life-track-rape-shame/

Danny Lennon couldn't have been more praiseworthy of him, calling him a 'model pro'.

I hadn't realised (or had forgotten) he's now married with a young child.

I've been in his company a few times(about 14 years ago now) and he was a clown back then. But by all accounts has tried to turn his life around, but if the female was as drunk as people say(I know a few involved in the case) then no danger should he have been back at that flat, or robertson for that matter

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=d22e28a7-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Well worth a read. She was clearly steaming and him drunk, does that make it rape regardless, I don't know? He says you don't know how drunk someone is when you're drunk, but you probably do. He probably believe she acted consenting, neighbours heard similar sentences to what goodwillie said. But I don't think it's consent if that drunk, especially him going into the room they were in.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Doesn't really matter depending on the type of place he wants to work

That’s why I put a question mark, wasn’t sure 👍🏼

[DH1875]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66298242

Calls now being made for the criminal case to be re-opened.

Anyone know what David Robertson went on to do when he retired from football after the civil case? Goodwillie continuing (or trying to continue) playing football seems to be the contentious issue here (despite the fact he did so for several years with relatively little comment).

The weird thing is that Robertson was never charged unlike Goodwillie. Genuinely doesn't make sense to me.

[speedy_gonzales]

Off topic but anyone remember Hibs being on Blue Peter? Leslie went to a game at Easter Road. Nobody I've mentioned it to seems to remember. Maybe I'm making it up 🤷🏻*♂️

In one of his very early episodes (probably '89), he came to ER and done some goalkeeper training. Apparently he was a keeper in his youth.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The weird thing is that Robertson was never charged unlike Goodwillie. Genuinely doesn't make sense to me.

Don’t think there was any DNA for Robertson. Not sure how of course but he was essentially in the clear until he came forward voluntarily.

[DH1875]

Don’t think there was any DNA for Robertson. Not sure how of course but he was essentially in the clear until he came forward voluntarily.

Yeah but even after admitting it he was never charged.

[hibby rae]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CvHmYxuqzcP/?igshid=NjZiM2M3MzIxNA==

[He's here!]

In one of his very early episodes (probably '89), he came to ER and done some goalkeeper training. Apparently he was a keeper in his youth.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/11907713.london-hibs-draw-a-record-crowd-but-leslie-fails-to-show/

He played regularly for London Hibs, who were a very active supporters club back then and run by Kevin Robertson who is quoted quite extensively here.

Curious wee snippet at the end re a fellow London Hibs player called Stuart Drummond who was apparently arrested along with Leslie.

[Hibs Class]

In one of his very early episodes (probably '89), he came to ER and done some goalkeeper training. Apparently he was a keeper in his youth.

:agree: That's what I remember too. It was Andy Goram he trained with on the programme. I remember him being shown how to dive and throw his leg up so he could use that for leverage to get up quickly...was funny watching Leslie trying to do it.

[silverhibee]

I think when it comes to supporting women she’s in a pretty good place.

So why has she not spoke out about the many other players who have been involved in domestic violence towards partners/wife, Stokes, a guy who is still wanted by the police or was he to high profile for her to get involved in, Bartley is another one and I’m sure there will be plenty more who have treated women badly, why pick on Goodwillie when he hadn’t been convicted at the high court as that’s where his trial would have taken place if he and Robertson had been charged by the police, and then we have Craig Thomson, silence from her on that as well, convicted of child sex offence’s and returned to play football with Edinburgh City, she surely should have been screaming from the rooftops about that case, but no silence from her, her getting involved regards DG was a stupid thing to do and it was done because a friend asked a favour to call it out.

[silverhibee]

It's worth remembering there was a reaction when he joined Clyde as well, both from the local MP in a political sense and from their fans. After Goodwillie signed for Raith there was a Clyde fan who wrote a very eloquent and passionate open letter saying how happy he was that he was now able to go back and support his team because Goodwillie had left. I've no idea if he was a solitary voice or if there were others, maybe if there was disquiet among a section of the Clyde support they would have had more of a voice had they had someone with the profile of Val McDermid to shine a spotlight on them. Bear in mind the Raith womens team walked out en masse when Goodwillie signed as well, that was clearly a collective decision and suggests a group of people felt strongly about it rather than it being solely a politically motivated witch hunt. Val McDermid was also a decent financial contributor to the football club, she is entitled to spend her money as she sees fit and if she wasn't willing to give money to her club whilst a rapist was on their payroll then that is her right.

The world has changed rapidly in the last few years in regards to women standing up to intimidation, harassment, sexual assault and violence and in that regard it's changed for the better. Maybe it's just the case that collectively an increased number of women, and allies of women, were more willing and felt more empowered to stand up and speak out 6 years down the line when Goodwillie hit the headlines again.

Yes there was a bit of an outcry when he joined Clyde, but the fans did seem to get over it and support him, I attended a couple of games he played in for Clyde and when he scored he got plenty of support from the fans, obviously a bit different from opponents fans who were calling him all sorts during games, I’m sure the guy you talk about would stand outside the ground on match day and protest but from seeing him he was the only person doing this.

[silverhibee]

He’s a rapist. I’m delighted NS got involved. Please highlight more for her to get involved in.

See my post below.

No comment from her on players who have been convicted of domestic abuse and child offences.

[cabbageandribs1875]

See my post below.

No comment from her on players who have been convicted of domestic abuse and child offences.


was she asked an opinion on them

[cabbageandribs1875]

'lets go' says Goodwillie David Goodwillie says 'let's go' as prosecutors asked to re-examine criminal case against him (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/david-goodwillie-says-let-s-go-as-prosecutors-asked-to-re-examine-criminal-case-against-him/ar-AA1elGH5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=14ff99b8afaf4402b07be7a0e8b6beab&ei=15)

big of him when he knows it's probably impossible to find him guilty

[Smartie]

Whilst I'm dead against Goodwillie being painted as any sort of victim and I have between zero and little sympathy for him - is there any good reason for this criminal case to be dug back up?

If there is new evidence then yes, I'm all for it. But if all we have is a bunch of folk of varying degrees of intoxication giving accounts of a situation that boils down to little more than one person's word versus another only dulled by the passage of time and with less chance of finding an impartial jury... is any of this in anyone's interests?

Is keeping on asking the same question in the hope of getting a different answer "justice" or totally the opposite?

[silverhibee]

was she asked an opinion on them

Brightside asked to highlight others, so I did.

[500miles]

Whilst I'm dead against Goodwillie being painted as any sort of victim and I have between zero and little sympathy for him - is there any good reason for this criminal case to be dug back up?

If there is new evidence then yes, I'm all for it. But if all we have is a bunch of folk of varying degrees of intoxication giving accounts of a situation that boils down to little more than one person's word versus another only dulled by the passage of time and with less chance of finding an impartial jury... is any of this in anyone's interests?

Is keeping on asking the same question in the hope of getting a different answer "justice" or totally the opposite?

I think its in Goodwillies interest. People believe the last thing they hear, and if they find him not guilty it feeds his credibility.

It would be interesting to see how this would affect his various previous dismissals and cancelled contracts as well.

[Sloop67]

With the amount of press coverage this case has attracted I struggle to see how it could be a fair trail , they'd surely have difficulty selecting a jury who haven't read or heard about it

[DH1875]

Wonder what David Robinson is making of it all as you'd think if Goodwillie case is reopened then so would his be.
Although he was never charged in first place, unlike Goodwillie which like I said earlier, I don't get.

[DH1875]

I think its in Goodwillies interest. People believe the last thing they hear, and if they find him not guilty it feeds his credibility.

It would be interesting to see how this would affect his various previous dismissals and cancelled contracts as well.

I asked this on the Kevin Spacey thread as I'm sure he was sued for millions by one of his TV shows as they had to cancel him.
I'm guessing its back to the civil court thing though.

[Smartie]

I think its in Goodwillies interest. People believe the last thing they hear, and if they find him not guilty it feeds his credibility.

It would be interesting to see how this would affect his various previous dismissals and cancelled contracts as well.

I'd have thought that if anyone it would be driven by the victim? She maintains that she was raped and Goodwillie and he was found guilty in the civil court. I don't think it seems like she's satisfied that there are any remaining doubts over his guilt and she'd maybe like to see him found guilty in a criminal court?

So I'd expect both the victim and Goodwillie would be keen to have a new trial, and for it to go their way. I'd just be amazed if anything bordering on justice could really be done and I question the validity of any outcome - and for the person who gets the outcome they want, do the ends justify the means?