Celtics Penalty

[gbhibby]

Looking at the highlights the ball seems to hit Doig on the chest before hitting his arm

[JXM73]

Flicked up from a foot away?

[greenginger]

Looking at the highlights the ball seems to hit Doig on the chest before hitting his arm

Exactly, if it comes off another part of a players body and accidentally hits his arm then it’s no penalty.

But, it’s a Glasgow ref in a Glasgow stadium refereeing for a Glasgow team. So penalty is given.

[007]

Looking at the highlights the ball seems to hit Doig on the chest before hitting his arm

Exactly, if it comes off another part of a players body and accidentally hits his arm then it’s no penalty.

But, it’s a Glasgow ref in a Glasgow stadium refereeing for a Glasgow team. So penalty is given.

Was going to post that on the match thread at the time but wasn't sure if that was still the rule or not.

[gbhibby]

Exactly, if it comes off another part of a players body and accidentally hits his arm then it’s no penalty.

But, it’s a Glasgow ref in a Glasgow stadium refereeing for a Glasgow team. So penalty is given.
We need VAR as that would have been looked at
Wonder if that will be looked at by sportscene probably not as it's Celtic

[hibbysam]

Exactly, if it comes off another part of a players body and accidentally hits his arm then it’s no penalty.

But, it’s a Glasgow ref in a Glasgow stadium refereeing for a Glasgow team. So penalty is given.

Not quite the rule. It’s still a penalty if it’s in an unnatural position. Fairly harsh but probably right. Worst bit though was Collum clearly wasn’t going to give it until the shouts got louder.

[SMAXXA]

Not quite the rule. It’s still a penalty if it’s in an unnatural position. Fairly harsh but probably right. Worst bit though was Collum clearly wasn’t going to give it until the shouts got louder.

Not really the case the linesman gave it that’s what the delay was nothing to do with the shouts

[WeeRussell]

Haven’t yet seen any videos of the penalty incident. Going from descriptions on here I’m going to guess I will concede it was a penalty but will wait and see..

[Sir David Gray]

It was a penalty under the current interpretation of the rules. If it had been up the other end we would have been screaming for it.

[Pete]

It's the sort of penalty that, if it was in the other box, would have been waved away. 'Smaller' clubs are playing against 12 men when they are up against the 'bigger' teams and even if it isn't deliberate, there's a subconscious bias. I'm talking about down South as well.
We probably still would've lost tonight but who knows?

[hibbysam]

Not really the case the linesman gave it that’s what the delay was nothing to do with the shouts

No chance the lino gave that, it was completely blindside for him, with two players in between and Doig’s arm on the other side of the body, Collum was looking straight at it with a clear view.

[Pete]

It was a penalty under the current interpretation of the rules. If it had been up the other end we would have been screaming for it.

Maybe, but it wouldn't have been awarded.

[silverhibee]

It was a foul before it was a penalty, celtc player controls the ball with his arm.

[Carheenlea]

It was a penalty under the current interpretation of the rules. If it had been up the other end we would have been screaming for it.

We would never have been awarded it though.

[allezsauzee]

Doig deliberates moves his arm towards the ball. It's instinctive and he's clearly not had much time to think about it but this has been a penalty for as long as I've been watching football, it doesn't need a "current interpretation of the rules" caveat.

[JimBHibees]

Think very soft pen typical Collum

[Edinburgh Green]

Doig deliberates moves his arm towards the ball. It's instinctive and he's clearly not had much time to think about it but this has been a penalty for as long as I've been watching football, it doesn't need a "current interpretation of the rules" caveat.

You think Doig, deliberately moves his hand towards the ball? I think it was a penalty, but its a horrible rule.

[hibbysam]

Doig deliberates moves his arm towards the ball. It's instinctive and he's clearly not had much time to think about it but this has been a penalty for as long as I've been watching football, it doesn't need a "current interpretation of the rules" caveat.

I don’t think he deliberately moves it towards the ball, I think it’s him trying to get his hand out the way, but by doing so it ends up in the old ‘unnatural position’.

[SlickShoes]

Doig deliberates moves his arm towards the ball. It's instinctive and he's clearly not had much time to think about it but this has been a penalty for as long as I've been watching football, it doesn't need a "current interpretation of the rules" caveat.

It was kicked up and hit his chest then his arm, the whole thing happened in about 1-2 seconds. When the ball hits his chest there is no way he can move his arm either towards or away from the ball because there is simply not time to react or do anything.

The rules say its a penalty but it's extremely harsh, you can't blame Doig for any of it really.

[Hibernian Verse]

No chance the lino gave that, it was completely blindside for him, with two players in between and Doig’s arm on the other side of the body, Collum was looking straight at it with a clear view.

It was the linesman. Collum played on.

[flash]

Surely if it hit his chest first, which it did, the rules are it isn't a penalty.

[Keyser Sauzee]

Did nobody else see Abada control it with his arm first?

[Alfred E Newman]

Haven't seen it yet but Packy and Tom English thought it was a clear penalty so it must have been. :hmmm:

[EVENTUALLY]

Did nobody else see Abada control it with his arm first?

Absolutely. There was even less chance of that being given than the pen claim being waved away.

[JohnM1875]

Did nobody else see Abada control it with his arm first?

Yes! Been saying it since it happened last night. Looked clear as day to me.

[ACLeith]

Just watched Sportscene. 100% ricocheted off his chest onto the arm. No penalty or am I misunderstanding the rule? (I mean the ricochet rule as against the Glasgow rule)

[Dazzjw1875]

It wasn't a pen watched the highlights very soft! If we had VAR 100% wouldn't be given. But it was regardless given or not we didn't have a shot on target that's a bigger issue for me.

[hibbysam]

Just watched Sportscene. 100% ricocheted off his chest onto the arm. No penalty or am I misunderstanding the rule? (I mean the ricochet rule as against the Glasgow rule)

The ricochet is irrelevant if his hand is in an unnatural position. No idea why the rules even say it as it doesn’t have any bearing.

[Carheenlea]

It wasn't a pen watched the highlights very soft! If we had VAR 100% wouldn't be given. But it was regardless given or not we didn't have a shot on target that's a bigger issue for me.

That would depend on who was making the decisions.

Scottish Football couldn’t be trusted with VAR, and would only mean The Old Firm getting even more of the decisions their way than they currently do.

[gbhibby]

The ricochet is irrelevant if his hand is in an unnatural position. No idea why the rules even say it as it doesn’t have any bearing.
Brought it up as I thought handball ball rule was still the old one. The update makes sense but accidental handball is being punished. I am sure we will get one in our favour but the old firm seem to get the rub of the green when it comes to the decision making.

[Killiehibbie]

The ricochet is irrelevant if his hand is in an unnatural position. No idea why the rules even say it as it doesn’t have any bearing.

What is a natural position?
Depending on what you are doing they can be in many different positions and unnatural to me might not be to you when running.

[hibbysam]

What is a natural position?
Depending on what you are doing they can be in many different positions and unnatural to me might not be to you when running.

Wouldn’t disagree with that at all, and if it was me there’s no way I’d have a rule that would make last nights handball a foul, but unfortunately anytime a hand is away from the body and in the air it’ll be a foul.

Was merely pointing out to those saying VAR would’ve overturned it that there’s no chance it would.

[Killiehibbie]

Wouldn’t disagree with that at all, and if it was me there’s no way I’d have a rule that would make last nights handball a foul, but unfortunately anytime a hand is away from the body and in the air it’ll be a foul.

Was merely pointing out to those saying VAR would’ve overturned it that there’s no chance it would.

Anything that's open to interpretation is always going to be a problem with the quality of officials in this country.

[Ray_]

Doig's contact should have been totally irrelevant, it was clear as day that the Celtic player controlled the ball with his arm, not hit off, controlled.

Scottish football is either institutionally corrupt in favour of the old firm or grossly inept.

[007]

Doig's contact should have been totally irrelevant, it was clear as day that the Celtic player controlled the ball with his arm, not hit off, controlled.

Scottish football is either institutionally corrupt in favour of the old firm or grossly inept.

Yup.

See 1 minute into the video clip.

https://youtu.be/1A_cdRj1uLg

https://i.ibb.co/tqh3XbN/Screenshot-20220118-191127-You-Tube.jpg (https://ibb.co/5r92F5z)

[JohnM1875]

Yup.

See 1 minute into the video clip.

https://youtu.be/1A_cdRj1uLg

https://i.ibb.co/tqh3XbN/Screenshot-20220118-191127-You-Tube.jpg (https://ibb.co/5r92F5z)

Knew it!! Ridiculous decision 😡

[gbhibby]

Yup.

See 1 minute into the video clip.

https://youtu.be/1A_cdRj1uLg

https://i.ibb.co/tqh3XbN/Screenshot-20220118-191127-You-Tube.jpg (https://ibb.co/5r92F5z)
Clear as day.

[hibbyboy1]

When are they having the vote for VAR. And if passed how long to get up and running.

[highland hibbee]

It was a penalty under the current interpretation of the rules. If it had been up the other end we would have been screaming for it.


Aye but of course we wouldn’t have got it !

[Forza Fred]

What is a natural position?
Depending on what you are doing they can be in many different positions and unnatural to me might not be to you when running.

Interestingly Law 12 makes no mention of an ‘unnatural position’ although I have heard many tv commentators use this term.

What it talks about is ‘making the body unnaturally bigger’

[Fuzzywuzzy]

https://twitter.com/MilanEye/status/1483190577441165312?t=d8T6vyqYSCTKOlLTwyMcvg&s=19

Could you ever imagine this happening.....

[WeeRussell]

Interestingly Law 12 makes no mention of an ‘unnatural position’ although I have heard many tv commentators use this term.

What it talks about is ‘making the body unnaturally bigger’

Same thing really?

If your arm is out in an unnatural position it’s making your body bigger in a place that otherwise would not be in the way of the ball.

[Killiehibbie]

Same thing really?

If your arm is out in an unnatural position it’s making your body bigger in a place that otherwise would not be in the way of the ball.
Looks more unnatural squeezing arms into your side or behind back.

[bigwheel]

Looks more unnatural squeezing arms into your side or behind back.

I honestly think the law makers have lost the real essence of what they are trying to avoid here….it should be about intentional handball….not something deflecting onto an arm from a yard away….the laws of the game around these points seem so contorted now.


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[WeeRussell]

Looks more unnatural squeezing arms into your side or behind back.

Fair point. I don’t think these get given as handballs though? Therefore the commentators are talking about the same thing as what’s in the rules, albeit “unnatural position” maybe not the best choice of words… in keeping of most commentary phrases!

[malcolm]

I honestly think the law makers have lost the real essence of what they are trying to avoid here….it should be about intentional handball….not something deflecting onto an arm from a yard away….the laws of the game around these points seem so contorted now.


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Intent is probably exactly what the current reference to ‘making body unnaturally bigger’ aims to catch - make bigger to block the ball. Intent is in your head and hard for a ref to see so it seems a proxy for it has been used here. It relies on imperfect refs and var though so it remains hit or miss as it were! :greengrin