Safe Standing

[Scorrie]

See that Chelsea are trialling safe standing this afternoon against Liverpool. Be interesting to see how this pans out over the next 6 months

[Pretty Boy]

I was reading an interview with one of the Hillsborough campaigners the other day, sure she lost her son, saying she had spoke out against reintroducing standing for years. However since seeing the new set up for herself she has changed her mind and now supports it, provided the relevant safeguards are in place.

For me it's about consumer choice. Some people want to stand at the football, give them the opportunity to do so.

[LancashireHibby]

For me it's about consumer choice. Some people want to stand at the football, give them the opportunity to do so.

I’m not sure how that happens without wholescale movement of season ticket holders, although admittedly much of these trials seem to be taking place where standing is the norm anyway.

The interesting bit I took from the BBC article with Margaret Aspinall that you mention is that it refers to people being able to choose whether they sit or stand within that particular space, but surely if the person in front of you is stood then you’re going to have to do the same? That said, the same article reckoned it was the first time in 30 years that there would be standing sections at a Premier League game, ignoring when Bolton, Sunderland and Fulham all had terracing in the top division post-1994, so I’m not convinced on their fact checking.

[StevieT]

I was reading an interview with one of the Hillsborough campaigners the other day, sure she lost her son, saying she had spoke out against reintroducing standing for years. However since seeing the new set up for herself she has changed her mind and now supports it, provided the relevant safeguards are in place.

For me it's about consumer choice. Some people want to stand at the football, give them the opportunity to do so.

I was totally against standing at football but can now see how the new standing / seating arrangement could work. My concern is around ensuring that there is only one person per seat / standing space. Recently we have seen overcrowding at certain games. This would need to be managed better.

[hibbysam]

Standing happens regardless. It’s about time change was embraced and done properly. If someone wants to sit then there will be plenty opportunity to do so, if someone wants to stand then they should also be able to do so. Standing should be in the end areas of stands so as to not impact the ability of those who want to sit from seeing parts of the game.

[LancashireHibby]

I was totally against standing at football but can now see how the new standing / seating arrangement could work. My concern is around ensuring that there is only one person per seat / standing space. Recently we have seen overcrowding at certain games. This would need to be managed better.
You have to have a particular wrist band to get in to the safe standing section that has been in place at Shrewsbury for a number of years, and in fairness I think people accept there is a certain responsibility to play by the rules in order for these things to be deemed a success. Has overcrowding been an issue in the safe standing area at Celtic Park?

[Brightside]

Make the bottom of the FF safe standing ASAP.

[Mick O'Rourke]

I’m not sure how that happens without wholescale movement of season ticket holders, although admittedly much of these trials seem to be taking place where standing is the norm anyway.

The interesting bit I took from the BBC article with Margaret Aspinall that you mention is that it refers to people being able to choose whether they sit or stand within that particular space, but surely if the person in front of you is stood then you’re going to have to do the same? That said, the same article reckoned it was the first time in 30 years that there would be standing sections at a Premier League game, ignoring when Bolton, Sunderland and Fulham all had terracing in the top division post-1994, so I’m not convinced on their fact checking.

Standing in general was fine back in the day.
It was not the primary cause at Hillsborough.

Police incompetence at the turnstiles/gates allowing that section to fill as it did and the fencing round the trackside was.
Still have an image of cops trying to push terrified fans off the fence and delaying opening fence gates.

If "safe standing" is to be tried properly. Get rid of the seats.
Smaller fans will still stand on them.

[CentreLine]

Ron Gordon is definitely keen to consider safe standing as I understand it. I imagine it will come down to immediate cost versus investment in squad.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Most new stadia will be built too steep for safe standing nowadays maybe.

[HibbyAndy]

Make the bottom of the FF safe standing ASAP.

Agreed , always looks sparse on tv

[LancashireHibby]

Standing in general was fine back in the day.
It was not the primary cause at Hillsborough.

Police incompetence at the turnstiles/gates allowing that section to fill as it did and the fencing round the trackside was.
Still have an image of cops trying to push terrified fans off the fence delaying opening fence gates.

If "safe standing" is to be tried properly. Get rid of the seats.
Smaller fans will still stand on them.
The seats will help allocate a space to people though which I’m sure will help massively in ensuring a proper spread of people. To move closer to the German model will involve a complete reconfiguration of the terracing though so I can’t see that happening any time soon.

[He's here!]

Standing in general was fine back in the day.
It was not the primary cause at Hillsborough.

Police incompetence at the turnstiles/gates allowing that section to fill as it did and the fencing round the trackside was.
Still have an image of cops trying to push terrified fans off the fence delaying opening fence gates.

If "safe standing" is to be tried properly. Get rid of the seats.
Smaller fans will still stand on them.

It wasn't fine when you were in a densely packed crowd, whether that be in football or any other sport. While there was a certain thrill to it if you were young and relatively strong, crowd sways were dangerous and distressing for older fans/kids, given the potential repercussions of falling over. Probably more of an issue in Scottish football in the 50s/60s when crowds were still huge but Murrayfield also used to be standing-only except for the main stand and I remember as recently as the 80s being thrown back and forward for much of the game during a Scotland international.

In saying that I'm in favour of safe standing sections as I used to generally prefer leaning on a crush barrier than sitting down - especially on a cold day when you could jump around to keep warm. The atmosphere was also better.

[He's here!]

Agreed , always looks sparse on tv

This gets suggested a lot and while I agree it might improve the take-up in that part of the ground, would safe standing instantly see it fill up? The reason I rarely go to that stand (except when I had Hibs Kids tickets) is because I always prefer to watch a match 'side on' ie from the East or the Main. Putting in safe standing along the front of the East might be more popular.

[He's here!]

I’m not sure how that happens without wholescale movement of season ticket holders, although admittedly much of these trials seem to be taking place where standing is the norm anyway.

The interesting bit I took from the BBC article with Margaret Aspinall that you mention is that it refers to people being able to choose whether they sit or stand within that particular space, but surely if the person in front of you is stood then you’re going to have to do the same? That said, the same article reckoned it was the first time in 30 years that there would be standing sections at a Premier League game, ignoring when Bolton, Sunderland and Fulham all had terracing in the top division post-1994, so I’m not convinced on their fact checking.

I didn't understand that bit either.

I'm also unclear about the caption under the pic of Chelsea fans which states that the infrastructure for safe standing has been in place for years but is yet to be used. How is that the case? Judging by the pic it looks as though there's nothing preventing the fans using it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59842679

[RIP]

My family and several hundred others stood safely in the upper rows of Section 43 of the East Stand from 2010. A smaller crowd also did that in the front of S43 and then the North Upper for a few seasons. Prior to that we used to stand under the gantry.

I can’t see the creation of yet another standing area being a priority as long as the club are relaxed about where supporters stand at the moment.

[GreenCastle]

£20 max a ticket and / or a cheap ST for safe standing in FF lower - fill it up every game - if they want to improve ER atmosphere get it done. Allow the drums / flags / displays in that section and watch it grow.

If they want to continue with the empty FF lower section don’t change it.

It’s a no brainer and if they are serious about making ER better it needs changed.

[A Hi-Bee]

Make the bottom of the FF safe standing ASAP.

Absolutely agree with this, sitting on freezing cauld seats for a couple of hours is not healthy, at least when you stand your blood can circulate, stamp yer feet etc, etc. It just makes sense and is the way forward.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

[greenlex]

It’s not like the old terracing. There is a barrier in front of every level. An old fashion sway isn’t going to happen for instance. Looks safe enough but really don’t understand why anyone would want to stand in this day and age when there’s a seat provided.

[Steven79]

£20 max a ticket and / or a cheap ST for safe standing in FF lower - fill it up every game - if they want to improve ER atmosphere get it done. Allow the drums / flags / displays in that section and watch it grow.

If they want to continue with the empty FF lower section don’t change it.

It’s a no brainer and if they are serious about making ER better it needs changed.

Agreed and for the start of next season as well.

[Steven79]

It’s not like the old terracing. There is a barrier in front of every level. An old fashion sway isn’t going to happen for instance. Looks safe enough but really don’t understand why anyone would want to stand in this day and age when there’s a seat provided.

People that would to stand would say the same about sitting down...

[Billy Whizz]

It’s not for me at my age, but there’s something to be said about standing on a cold winters day
I definitely think there is a place for safe standing in modern grounds
If it gets the go ahead, questions for Hibs are where and how big do they allocate it

[hibbysam]

https://twitter.com/bbcnwt/status/1477607416053309440?s=21

One of the worst takes I’ve ever seen, from someone in power as well. Stand up and you automatically become a drink/drug taking, racist abusing thug.

A policeman talking about causing crushes as well. Couldn’t write it!

[Mick O'Rourke]

It wasn't fine when you were in a densely packed crowd, whether that be in football or any other sport. While there was a certain thrill to it if you were young and relatively strong, crowd sways were dangerous and distressing for older fans/kids, given the potential repercussions of falling over. Probably more of an issue in Scottish football in the 50s/60s when crowds were still huge but Murrayfield also used to be standing-only except for the main stand and I remember as recently as the 80s being thrown back and forward for much of the game during a Scotland international.

In saying that I'm in favour of safe standing sections as I used to generally prefer leaning on a crush barrier than sitting down - especially on a cold day when you could jump around to keep warm. The atmosphere was also better.


No it was not fine in the circumstances you mention.
That is why i said" in general"!
In the heyday of massive crowds,chairmen/owners were happy to "pack them in" with no care.
It was pure greed.
Hibs added what became known as Shaw's Heights to the main terracing to accommodate more fans(and more money)

Easter Road. when i first went, you would describe nowadays as a dump,as were many grounds
Even the Cave ,which i loved, cost little or nothing to build.
Our chairman then owned a big building firm/plenty leftover concrete. !

And it was ugly, but nice !


Bujt your right ,the crowds then would maked you shudder ,thinking back.
But it was uncaring and neglectful owners at fault.

Getting out the Dunbar End when it was full could be dangerous.
As to was the bottleneck school end at Tynie.

[GreenCastle]

Absolutely agree with this, sitting on freezing cauld seats for a couple of hours is not healthy, at least when you stand your blood can circulate, stamp yer feet etc, etc. It just makes sense and is the way forward.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

Fair point about standing in the cold.

I do think the club should look at either moving the family section to another part or look at family pricing in other parts of the stadium.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Most new stadia will be built too steep for safe standing nowadays maybe.

Quite the opposite infact. Spurs new stadium is specifically designed so that they could have safe standing on that huge single banked tier that they have at one end of the stadium.

Likewise the new Everton stadium that is being constructed is designed to have a seated capacity of 52,000 but like Spurs this ground will also have a huge single bank behind one of the goals and should the laws be changed (they have now been, trials permitting) then it can easily be converted to a safe standing area raising capacity to 60,000.

I fully expect when the new Everton ground does open, it will have a Dortmund style single bank terrace and they will be playing to 60K on that opening fixture.

[SChibs]

It’s not like the old terracing. There is a barrier in front of every level. An old fashion sway isn’t going to happen for instance. Looks safe enough but really don’t understand why anyone would want to stand in this day and age when there’s a seat provided.

I hate sitting at the football, it takes away from the experience for me. I deliberately sit at the end of the East so I can stand and not block people's view.

[overdrive]

https://twitter.com/bbcnwt/status/1477607416053309440?s=21

One of the worst takes I’ve ever seen, from someone in power as well. Stand up and you automatically become a drink/drug taking, racist abusing thug.

A policeman talking about causing crushes as well. Couldn’t write it!

WTF is he on? I think he must have been standing at a football match, and therefore overindulging in alcohol and cocaine to come out with a lot of that.

[Mick O'Rourke]

It’s not like the old terracing. There is a barrier in front of every level. An old fashion sway isn’t going to happen for instance. Looks safe enough but really don’t understand why anyone would want to stand in this day and age when there’s a seat provided.

In winter months,sitting for possibly two hours in the freezing cold, is one reason there are empty seats on cold wednesday nights!
Some wont take youngsters . And older fans get colder quicker !

More chance of keeping a bit warmer when standing.
Especially yer feet !

[Yorkshire HFC]

It’s not like the old terracing. There is a barrier in front of every level. An old fashion sway isn’t going to happen for instance. Looks safe enough but really don’t understand why anyone would want to stand in this day and age when there’s a seat provided.

That's where I'm at - I'm sure that what will be put into modern stadiums will be safe, but I certainly won't use it.

It won't be like it was in the 70s and 80s (and presumably before that) - most of my bad memories are from Murrayfield and leaving football matches though. I'd much rather Hibs spent the money on a striker than taking out seats though.

[hibbysam]

That's where I'm at - I'm sure that what will be put into modern stadiums will be safe, but I certainly won't use it.

It won't be like it was in the 70s and 80s (and presumably before that) - most of my bad memories are from Murrayfield and leaving football matches though. I'd much rather Hibs spent the money on a striker than taking out seats though.

Even if it made us more money in the long run? Thus improving atmosphere and long term revenues? Probably more risk in signing a centre forward than installing safe standing.

[linlithgowhibbie]

Does anyone know roughly how much safe standing costs to install and if for example it was installed in the FF lower how it would effect capacity in that area?
I'm all for it but just cannot seeing it being packed, unfortunately.

[Keith_M]

Over the last few years, people have decided they have the right to stand anywhere, and if it blocks other people's view, then tough.

I've even read some comments on here that if people don't want to stand, or even can't stand, then they should just avoid away games.

If reintroducing standing at stadiums also reintroduces the rights of people to sit and not have their view blocked by inconsiderate [censored], then I'd be all in favour.

[hibbysam]

Over the last few years, people have decided they have the right to stand anywhere, and if it blocks other people's view, then tough.

I've even read some comments on here that if people don't want to stand, or even can't stand, then they should just avoid away games.

If reintroducing standing at stadiums also reintroduces the rights of people to sit and not have their view blocked by inconsiderate [censored], then I'd be all in favour.

I’d say this is exactly what it should do. There wouldn’t then be an excuse. I like to think I’m considerate. I want to stand, and will do so whenever possible, even if that means moving myself. If I’m blocking someone I’ll either sit down or move. Stewards aren’t going to try and get hundreds or sometimes thousands to sit down. If there’s safe standing then those who want to stand have their own area, everyone else has their areas.

Unfortunately for games at tynecastle I just can’t see any way of the current 95% of people standing changing.

[where'stheslope]

Absolutely agree with this, sitting on freezing cauld seats for a couple of hours is not healthy, at least when you stand your blood can circulate, stamp yer feet etc, etc. It just makes sense and is the way forward.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:
Not sure about the feet stamping, I can still do that sitting down?
As for the cauld seats, the best stadium that I've seen for that is Gothenburg's Ullyses stadium, it has a 4" hot pipe running round the stadium under the seats.
This gives heat rising up your bum and back and you can heat your feet on the pipe under the seat in front.

[hibbysam]

Not sure about the feet stamping, I can still do that sitting down?
As for the cauld seats, the best stadium that I've seen for that is Gothenburg's Ullyses stadium, it has a 4" hot pipe running round the stadium under the seats.
This gives heat rising up your bum and back and you can heat your feet on the pipe under the seat in front.

We can’t get hot water never mind under seat heating 😂

[LunasBoots]

One end of the east already stand without any issues, I do prefer standing on a winter day of football.

[A Hi-Bee]

Not sure about the feet stamping, I can still do that sitting down?
As for the cauld seats, the best stadium that I've seen for that is Gothenburg's Ullyses stadium, it has a 4" hot pipe running round the stadium under the seats.
This gives heat rising up your bum and back and you can heat your feet on the pipe under the seat in front.

They never had the hot pipe's when I was there, great stadium but pretty boring people, but it is something that I mentioned on a number of occasions to Hibs and Ms Dempster when she was with us, never did get any reply. Then the more I thought about it the more I thought about the auld advice never to sit on radiators as it may gie you piles, or something like that.
I like to stamp ma feet as I move around a wee bit, cannot do that sitting down, get the blood moving around the old bones. Just a whole lot easier to let them that wish to stand, and them that want to sit can then sit.
:greengrin

[Waxy]

Most new stadia will be built too steep for safe standing nowadays maybe.
Remember the old Tannadice terracing?
Rope and spikey boots just to watch football.

[stuart-farquhar]

We can’t get hot water never mind under seat heating 😂

Embarrassing that. No hot water.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Remember the old Tannadice terracing?
Rope and spikey boots just to watch football.


Remember it well
Some fans got vertigo just looking at it !

Short clip below ,but this guy was wearing the wrong boots !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maxCFZgcgfM

[Alfred E Newman]

It’s not like the old terracing. There is a barrier in front of every level. An old fashion sway isn’t going to happen for instance. Looks safe enough but really don’t understand why anyone would want to stand in this day and age when there’s a seat provided.

As a previous poster said, on a cold day you’re more comfortable standing.

[McD]

I think it’ll happen at some point, can’t see any way that folk in that part of the ground will be getting reduced ticket prices though - the rail seats install and removing the old ones will have a cost, no way are the club going to pay that and reduce the ticket costs as well

[worcesterhibby]

How many seats are there currently in the lower half of the Famous Five ?

[hibbysam]

How many seats are there currently in the lower half of the Famous Five ?

Would say around 2000? Think it’s about 3800 for the stand and the upper tier would hold less as the corner is cut off.

[worcesterhibby]

Ok scrub the question above, just found out it’s about 2000 seats in the FF lower.you get an increase in capacity with rail seats which might push it up to around 2600 ( making our capacity even bigger than Tynie) rail seats cost about £70 each, but there are bound to be other costs, so you can increase that to maybe £100 a seat in real terms, meaning it would cost about 260,000 to put rail seats in the whole of the FF lower.

Do it Ron ! :agree:

[Pagan Hibernia]

Does anyone know roughly how much safe standing costs to install and if for example it was installed in the FF lower how it would effect capacity in that area?
I'm all for it but just cannot seeing it being packed, unfortunately.

all about creating a buzz in there to be honest. Get a proper bouncing atmosphere going in the standing area, and young supporters will want to be involved in that. I can see it being very popular with groups of young lads. Ticket pricing needs to be sensible for it to work though.

[LancashireHibby]

Ok scrub the question above, just found out it’s about 2000 seats in the FF lower.you get an increase in capacity with rail seats which might push it up to around 2600 ( making our capacity even bigger than Tynie) rail seats cost about £70 each, but there are bound to be other costs, so you can increase that to maybe £100 a seat in real terms, meaning it would cost about 260,000 to put rail seats in the whole of the FF lower.

Do it Ron ! :agree:
To increase capacity you effectively need an extra step between each row so it would need a complete reconfiguration (not to mention a change in licensing as it is currently only permitted as a 1:1 ratio)

[worcesterhibby]

To increase capacity you effectively need an extra step between each row so it would need a complete reconfiguration (not to mention a change in licensing as it is currently only permitted as a 1:1 ratio)

ah didn’t realise that..oh well, just makes it cheaper ! £200,000 and it’s done :aok:

[Hermit Crab]

Remember it well
Some fans got vertigo just looking at it !

Short clip below ,but this guy was wearing the wrong boots !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maxCFZgcgfM


I personally know who that is, he suffered a nasty head wound in that fall. He's a great guy and was treated ridiculously bad by Hearts and the courts for falling down the stairs.

[Hermit Crab]

I'd convert the FFL and the South lower. Give away fans the choice as well. Seating in the upper and standing in the lower. In time the East could be converted as well I suppose.

[Steven79]

I'd convert the FFL and the South lower. Give away fans the choice as well. Seating in the upper and standing in the lower. In time the East could be converted as well I suppose.Spend money on away fans?

Then get shoved in a corner when we go to Celtic?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Hermit Crab]

Spend money on away fans?

Then get shoved in a corner when we go to Celtic?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Why not? Lots of Germans clubs have both seating and standing for way fans. It would encourage more to attend meaning more money for Hibs.

[bod]

Agreed , always looks sparse on tv

Take away the fact it always loooks empty ,it’s the logical place for it

[Juniper Greens]

All these folk that think a space in the safe standing area will be cheaper are fantasists.
Itll cost hibs to put the rails in, reconfigure the floor and possibly add an extra entrance/exit.
If anything, spaces there will cost more

[CentreLine]

Why not? Lots of Germans clubs have both seating and standing for way fans. It would encourage more to attend meaning more money for Hibs.

Totally agree. Easter Road should be a place both home and away fans rave about attending. The football experience is supposed to be an entertainment business first and foremost. Good experience at our games will also turn heads of youngsters looking to find their place in the game and maybe stop a few climbing on buses to Glasgow week in week out

[Gmack7]

Ofcourse there's a cost but the lower sections are perfect for standing areas, the cost should be recouped in 2 or 3 years imo

[Antifa Hibs]

All these folk that think a space in the safe standing area will be cheaper are fantasists.
Itll cost hibs to put the rails in, reconfigure the floor and possibly add an extra entrance/exit.
If anything, spaces there will cost more

Technically they would be cheaper. Currently, lower tier's behind both goals are the cheapest categories in the stadium I think so it would be a couple of quid cheaper than the the North Upper and centre sections of the West and East Stands.

If its rail seating which it most likely would be as there is currently zero need for Hibs to increase capacity then there would be no structural changes needed.

[Carheenlea]

It’s the terraces I miss more than just standing at a game. That freedom to stand where you like, meet friends at a pre arranged location, move about to different locations depending on what way we’re shooting, and goal celebrations that can never be replicated in stands or safe standing.

Have got used to the seated stadiums now, and have no real desire to swap my seat for a safety rail. Proper old terracing though.. definitely.

[Antifa Hibs]

Why not? Lots of Germans clubs have both seating and standing for way fans. It would encourage more to attend meaning more money for Hibs.

Absolutely. We need to get away with the mentality in this country that its fine to shaft away fans.

For atmosphere and income, away fans are just as important than home supporters and should be treated as such.

[GreenCastle]

I think it’ll happen at some point, can’t see any way that folk in that part of the ground will be getting reduced ticket prices though - the rail seats install and removing the old ones will have a cost, no way are the club going to pay that and reduce the ticket costs as well

It wouldn’t bother me if they reduced prices for these areas to fill it up.

Would rather go to a game with a good atmosphere than a dull / quiet game.

Of course there is a cost to installing it but an increase in ST may help over time or maybe they could find a sponsor to help.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It’s the terraces I miss more than just standing at a game. That freedom to stand where you like, meet friends at a pre arranged location, move about to different locations depending on what way we’re shooting, and goal celebrations that can never be replicated in stands or safe standing.

Have got used to the seated stadiums now, and have no real desire to swap my seat for a safety rail. Proper old terracing though.. definitely.

there’s very good reasons why old style terracing is no longer allowed.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It wouldn’t bother me if they reduced prices for these areas to fill it up.

Would rather go to a game with a good atmosphere than a dull / quiet game.

Of course there is a cost to installing it but an increase in ST may help over time or maybe they could find a sponsor to help.

personally I’d be happy for HSL contributions to go towards the installation of a safe standing area. That’s somewhere around £200-250k a year.

HSL would have to have a membership vote on that though.

[Antifa Hibs]

there’s very good reasons why old style terracing is no longer allowed.

It is allowed, just not in the top flight in England I think. Plenty terraced stadiums all over the UK.

The terracing in Germany is fantastic. Probably not feasible here due to construction costs but nothing unsafe about that also.

The only thing unsafe about old style terracing was the contempt for football supporters clubs.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Make the bottom of the FF safe standing ASAP.

And where do you move those people in the the FFL to? The ***** seats at either end of the stands? No thanks

[Hermit Crab]

And where do you move those people in the the FFL to? The ***** seats at either end of the stands? No thanks


What people in the FFL? :confused:

[Since452]

What people in the FFL? :confused:

😂😂

[Carheenlea]

Between upper and lower in FF, you can’t be far off from being able to accommodate all ST holders in upper tier? Certainly the family ST holders for starters?

[GreenCastle]

And where do you move those people in the the FFL to? The ***** seats at either end of the stands? No thanks

South lower for Cat B?
West lower ?
FF upper ?

Plenty options.

Thing is if more folk actually turned up it wouldn’t be such an issue: instead it’s probably about 2 out of the 5 blocks actually attending.

[Hermit Crab]

South lower for Cat B?
West lower ?
FF upper ?

Plenty options.

Thing is if more folk actually turned up it wouldn’t be such an issue: instead it’s probably about 2 out of the 5 blocks actually attending.


Couple of hundred at the absolute maximum. :agree:

[Glory Lurker]

personally I’d be happy for HSL contributions to go towards the installation of a safe standing area. That’s somewhere around £200-250k a year.

HSL would have to have a membership vote on that though.

I'd be against that. Should only go towards playing budget.

[Jones28]

And where do you move those people in the the FFL to? The ***** seats at either end of the stands? No thanks

They get first pick of any seat in the stadium.

All 50 of them.

It’s for the greater good.

[RyeSloan]

It is allowed, just not in the top flight in England I think. Plenty terraced stadiums all over the UK.

The terracing in Germany is fantastic. Probably not feasible here due to construction costs but nothing unsafe about that also.

The only thing unsafe about old style terracing was the contempt for football supporters clubs.

I distinctly remember a Derby at Tynie where they had erected a fence to cut the size of the terracing but didn’t reduce the number of tickets sold to Hibs. The crush that day was ridiculous and I spent the whole game struggling to breathe properly.

I think the game ended 0-0 and I was delighted as I would have hated the even bigger crush that would have happened had we scored.

The fenced off section for the Hearts fans was half empty as well.

That said the away and celebration for Archie goal is one of my best and lasting memories of a football game so the old terracing had its benefits. I got turned around in the huge sway and still remember the weird scene of the top half of the terracing being totally empty of people!

But the concept of consciously bringing that back into top flight football would be absolutely bonkers.

[Juniper Greens]

I think what people don't realise is that whilst only 1,000 people might turn up at a game in the FFL, it's not the same 1,000 people every time.
These tickets are bought by family groups, so often the children have something else on or they are only with the parent who takes them half of the time. All family areas in world football suffer the same issues and the views of some of the fans on here are really outdated and borderline offensive in the instances of single parents who only have their kids half the time.
This is done to death every time safe standing is mentioned, and people see it as an excuse to have a pop at families

[WhileTheChief..]

No ones having a pop at families specifically.

They''re having a pop at the over a thousand or so people who don't go, apart from derby games.

The whole stadium is family friendly and everything the cub does is geared towards families. They don't need their own special section, especially when it rarely gets used.

The fact that it's over half empty every week shows that there is not enough demand to merit it anymore.

[Since452]

No ones having a pop at families specifically.

They''re having a pop at the over a thousand or so people who don't go, apart from derby games.

The whole stadium is family friendly and everything the cub does is geared towards families. They don't need their own special section, especially when it rarely gets used.

The fact that it's over half empty every week shows that there is not enough demand to merit it anymore.

Agreed. Change is needed for that section and it has for some time.

[GreenCastle]

I think what people don't realise is that whilst only 1,000 people might turn up at a game in the FFL, it's not the same 1,000 people every time.
These tickets are bought by family groups, so often the children have something else on or they are only with the parent who takes them half of the time. All family areas in world football suffer the same issues and the views of some of the fans on here are really outdated and borderline offensive in the instances of single parents who only have their kids half the time.
This is done to death every time safe standing is mentioned, and people see it as an excuse to have a pop at families

No one is having a go at families or single parents.

It’s quite the opposite - we are ALL Hibs.

We want the best for the team on the park - that means a good atmosphere and fans in the stadium paying money to watch the team by ST or walk ups.

Currently that’s not happening for a variety of reasons discussed.

Families can move anywhere else in stadium or even create a single parent area if that would make folk more comfortable to meet other single parents. There are possibilities to make this work but if we keep the same set up we will never improve the match day experience which the clubs keep mentioning.

Changes should have been made about 2 seasons ago when LD was here but didn’t do it or even post covid when it was obvious we would get less fans attending / less fans to upset moving.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think what people don't realise is that whilst only 1,000 people might turn up at a game in the FFL, it's not the same 1,000 people every time.
These tickets are bought by family groups, so often the children have something else on or they are only with the parent who takes them half of the time. All family areas in world football suffer the same issues and the views of some of the fans on here are really outdated and borderline offensive in the instances of single parents who only have their kids half the time.
This is done to death every time safe standing is mentioned, and people see it as an excuse to have a pop at families

Nobody is suggesting there shouldn't be provision made for families at Easter Road mate. But lets be honest, how many folk will be in the category of a separated parent only able to take a kid half the time? It must be miniscule and hardly a meaningful contributory factor when it comes to the huge gaps in the FF lower at practically every game, no matter what day or time of day they take place.

Yes sometimes life gets in the way of attending games .... but lets not pretend for a second that in at least 50% of cases for any given match 'cannae be arsed' is reason number one for folk failing to turn up. If the FF lower was far emptier on school nights then it would be a fair point, but the absolute fact is it's just as sparsely populated for Saturday games with a 3pm kick of as it is on a Wednesday night 7:45pm kick off.

Lets not skew this debate into some sort of suggestion that folk have an agenda against families or family friendly pricing, because that simply isn't the case.
The only motivations for folk in favour of an FF lower standing are are these:

1 .... It is abundantly clear that this club badly needs a proper safe standing area in order to at least try to improve what the vast majority of our fans agree is an at times woefully flat atmosphere ... one that in recent times has been vastly improved by 20 pissed up folk in the hospitality seats and just the other day by 10 pre pubescent kids in the FF lower .... nuff said.

2 .... After moving the ultras / singing section, call it what you will, all around the stadium in recent years with little to no effect on either the atmosphere or their ability to grow their numbers, it's time they were given the chance to give it a proper go in the part of the stadium they have always wanted and which is clearly most suited to their needs.

3 ..... If you care about Hibs then surely the clubs image and especially it's image as presented to TV audiences must matter to you ... I don't mean you in particular, but all Hibs fans. Then the vast array of empty seats in the part of the stadium most visible to TV audiences must make you cringe, even with the ground half full the lack of visible Hibs support in the FF lower makes the place look far emptier than 10,000 .... I would far rather see 1000 folk standing waving flags and singing and chanting in the FF lower than the current 500 odd just sitting there.

No .... this is something the club badly needs to get done, with a viable and sensitive solution found to offer the current FF lower occupants decent alternative seats.

[erin go bragh]

Make the bottom of the FF safe standing ASAP.

Definitely and I’ve been in this stand for years . Time to let families sit anywhere in the ground .

[bod]

personally I’d be happy for HSL contributions to go towards the installation of a safe standing area. That’s somewhere around £200-250k a year.

HSL would have to have a membership vote on that though.

I wouldn’t

[bod]

It wouldn’t bother me if they reduced prices for these areas to fill it up.

Would rather go to a game with a good atmosphere than a dull / quiet game.

Of course there is a cost to installing it but an increase in ST may help over time or maybe they could find a sponsor to help.

Rather than reduce prices Ron would raise prices elsewhere

[hibbysam]

Definitely and I’ve been in this stand for years . Time to let families sit anywhere in the ground .

I agree, and if they are worried about too much of the ground taking the reduced prices, just reduce the number of tickets available - for example first come first served 3000 tickets etc anywhere in the stadium.

[Dashing Bob S]

Make the bottom of the FF safe standing ASAP.

Hear hear!

[Fuzzywuzzy]

They get first pick of any seat in the stadium.

All 50 of them.

It’s for the greater good.


Could say the same for all "50" that wan to be in the singing section. The ffu to as made available and didint make the impact expected/anticipated. Whose to blame for that?

[Since452]

If the FF lower was turned into safe standing I'd move there from the east stand. Image Hibs shooting into that end in the second half. Would be brilliant.

[Squealing pig]

Would pack it Out that’s for sure , would pay for itself in long run

[MagicSwirlingShip]

There’s a small section at the front of the east, perhaps 4 or 5 rows max. Get it trialed in there

[Keith_M]

When are we introducing a safe seating section? Last time I was at ER, some twat spilled hot coffee on me.

[GreenCastle]

There’s a small section at the front of the east, perhaps 4 or 5 rows max. Get it trialed in there

A trial would only work in the area it’s going to go in.

Can guarantee if it was FF it would be the first area that sells out for big games.

[jgl07]

The obvious solution is to convert the South Stand Lower to standing. That will allow home and visiting support the opportunity. That would enable the demand to be assessed before the next phase. East Stand would seem the best option.

In England the areas converted are those where people stand anyway. That is the best way to approach the problem rather than pissing people off by moving them.

[The Wireless]

£20 max a ticket and / or a cheap ST for safe standing in FF lower - fill it up every game - if they want to improve ER atmosphere get it done. Allow the drums / flags / displays in that section and watch it grow.

If they want to continue with the empty FF lower section don’t change it.

It’s a no brainer and if they are serious about making ER better it needs changed.

Agree 100%

No more than this needs to be said.

Only needs action from the club.

[Glory Lurker]

Agree 100%

No more than this needs to be said.

Only needs action from the club.

I don't agree at all. If the demand for such an area is going to be what we're told it will be then there is no reason to lower prices. I'm not against safe standing but can't sign up to the suggestion that the club find a six-figure sum out of its budget and then prolong the payback by reducing the price.

[worcesterhibby]

Ron wants Easter Road to be a great place to visit, with great football and great atmosphere..he’s shown he will spend money and take the big decisions when it comes to the football…I think he’ll do the same with the atmosphere…lower famous 5 rail seating incoming !

[Jones28]

Could say the same for all "50" that wan to be in the singing section. The ffu to as made available and didint make the impact expected/anticipated. Whose to blame for that?

We’re not talking about that though are we?

“Oh something we tried didn’t work so let’s never try anything ever again. Let’s make every game a boring atmosphere unless it’s a derby under the lights.”

[GreenCastle]

The obvious solution is to convert the South Stand Lower to standing. That will allow home and visiting support the opportunity. That would enable the demand to be assessed before the next phase. East Stand would seem the best option.

In England the areas converted are those where people stand anyway. That is the best way to approach the problem rather than pissing people off by moving them.

The obvious solution is to improve the atmosphere and change the FF lower.

Not the worst idea what you say but unless Hibs can use the area for Cat A matches we would be giving the opposition an advantage before the game has even started.

We need to have an end where the fans basically suck the ball into the net. You see it at the Roseburn away end on derby days.

[GreenCastle]

We’re not talking about that though are we?

“Oh something we tried didn’t work so let’s never try anything ever again. Let’s make every game a boring atmosphere unless it’s a derby under the lights.”

I would say the FF upper section was pretty good with various banners and flags / displays. The sound just didn’t come across well enough. Being furthest from the pitch.

[Jones28]

I would say the FF upper section was pretty good with various banners and flags / displays. The sound just didn’t come across well enough. Being furthest from the pitch.

And that’s the other thing, some of the most memorable moments from Since1875 were when they had the top tier of the FF.

[Juniper Greens]

Agree 100%

No more than this needs to be said.

Only needs action from the club.

Why should it be cheaper than the rest of the ground? Only argument for a different price I could see would be an upward one

[Jones28]

Why should it be cheaper than the rest of the ground? Only argument for a different price I could see would be an upward one

No way, tickets should be the same as the rest of the ground.

[Antifa Hibs]

No way, tickets should be the same as the rest of the ground.

Doesn't make sense. Ticket prices aren't the same as it stands over the stadium and currently the FF lower is the cheapest section.
Currently, FF lower works out at £20 a game anyway. £385 / 19.

[bod]

Why would any businessman reduce prices to a section of the ground where the paying punters are desperate to get into ? If anything it’ll be dearer to pay for the new baracades

[blackpoolhibs]

Why would any businessman reduce prices to a section of the ground where the paying punters are desperate to get into ? If anything it’ll be dearer to pay for the new baracades
It's the cheapest area in the ground, and nobody is desperate to go there now.

[GreenCastle]

Why should it be cheaper than the rest of the ground? Only argument for a different price I could see would be an upward one

To fill it up and encourage lapsed fans to come back ?

Not sure why any Hibs fans would be against that ?

[Jones28]

Doesn't make sense. Ticket prices aren't the same as it stands over the stadium and currently the FF lower is the cheapest section.
Currently, FF lower works out at £20 a game anyway. £385 / 19.

It’s the cheapest section because it’s a bronze ticket isn’t it? So should be in keeping with the current structure.

[Hermit Crab]

We should look to have this installed during the close season with a pricing structure to fit the standing area. The family section on a whole is pretty much a waste of time to be honest. I don't think there needs to be one and I say that as a dad who will be taking my lad to games in the next few years.

[Juniper Greens]

It’s the cheapest section because it’s a bronze ticket isn’t it? So should be in keeping with the current structure.

Exactly this. Price it in line with current bronze if its in a bronze area, silver for a silver area and gold for a gold area, possibly with a very small increase for 1 season to pay for the installation (but probably not)?

Definitely not cheaper than bronze.

Edit, actually from looking at the current pricing structure, an adult in the FFL is the same as silver, so shouldn't be priced any lower than that.
https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/tickets-hospitality/season-tickets/pricing-categories

[Steven79]

We should look to have this installed during the close season with a pricing structure to fit the standing area. The family section on a whole is pretty much a waste of time to be honest. I don't think there needs to be one and I say that as a dad who will be taking my lad to games in the next few years.I also sit in the FFL as the kids like being right behind the goal in the second half but it's not great looking around the place and something to have give for the greater good.

I would definitely stay if they introduced safe standing and the atmosphere in the second half against Inverness was the best I've experienced in years in that area and we need that every game.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[GreenCastle]

Exactly this. Price it in line with current bronze if its in a bronze area, silver for a silver area and gold for a gold area, possibly with a very small increase for 1 season to pay for the installation (but probably not)?

Definitely not cheaper than bronze.

Edit, actually from looking at the current pricing structure, an adult in the FFL is the same as silver, so shouldn't be priced any lower than that.
https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/tickets-hospitality/season-tickets/pricing-categories

Any new standing section should be the cheapest in the ground - call it Bronze or something else.

Why would any Hibs fan be against that?

We want more fans attending surely.

It won't affect the fans who sit in Gold or centrally who are willing to pay more.

[Glory Lurker]

Any new standing section should be the cheapest in the ground - call it Bronze or something else.

Why would any Hibs fan be against that?

We want more fans attending surely.

It won't affect the fans who sit in Gold or centrally who are willing to pay more.

If we need to cut prices to fill it that would mean the demand for the change is not as big as is presented. Fair enough, if that's the case. It doesn't mean a change to safe standing shouldn't happen but it's still got to somehow make financial sense.

[Juniper Greens]

Any new standing section should be the cheapest in the ground - call it Bronze or something else.

Why would any Hibs fan be against that?

We want more fans attending surely.

It won't affect the fans who sit in Gold or centrally who are willing to pay more.

Why do you keep saying that "why would any hibs fan be against that". I'm against hibs losing revenue for something that fans have requested. FWIW, in spite of my comments on here, I would go in the standing zone, I'd be willing to pay gold prices for it but I'm perhaps a bit more sympathetic to you of the plight of the fans currently occupying areas of the ground mooted

Whatever area it goes in, it should cost at least the same as the seats currently there and I wouldn't be against it being slightly more, given the apparent demand and the cost of implementation and additional stewarding

[Waxy]

Ron wants Easter Road to be a great place to visit, with great football and great atmosphere..he’s shown he will spend money and take the big decisions when it comes to the football…I think he’ll do the same with the atmosphere…lower famous 5 rail seating incoming !

I do hope so. This part of the ground is screaming for a safe standing area.

[GreenCastle]

If we need to cut prices to fill it that would mean the demand for the change is not as big as is presented. Fair enough, if that's the case. It doesn't mean a change to safe standing shouldn't happen but it's still got to somehow make financial sense.

What would you rather have ? Full lower tier with folk or the current set up?

If we need to cut prices to help promote it - shouldn’t be an issue.

They can raise prices elsewhere in the ground - football should be affordable for all and charging a fan more to come to a game where they don’t even have a seat should surely be cheaper than a seat ?

Fans need to be a little more open minded here - it will pay for itself over time with more fans coming back to ER and enjoying the match day experience.

[Juniper Greens]

What would you rather have ? Full lower tier with folk or the current set up?

If we need to cut prices to help promote it - shouldn’t be an issue.

They can raise prices elsewhere in the ground - football should be affordable for all and charging a fan more to come to a game where they don’t even have a seat should surely be cheaper than a seat ?

Fans need to be a little more open minded here - it will pay for itself over time with more fans coming back to ER and enjoying the match day experience.

But there is a seat. There is also a supplementary rail, so by your own argument "why should people without a rail pay more than people with a rail"

I'd be against hibs offering it cheaper and as I said previously, would actually be willing to pay more

Edit FWIW, killie charge the same for the standing behind the goals as they do for the seats on the halfway line

[PatHead]

Don't see why I should pay extra to subsidise people who want standing section.
If anything there should be a loading on that area to help cover the costs of setting it up.

[CentreLine]

Don't see why I should pay extra to subsidise people who want standing section.
If anything there should be a loading on that area to help cover the costs of setting it up.

Agreed. On the one hand people are “demanding” safe standing but then want it delivered with much cheapness. Doesn’t make sense to me. To be honest it’s just another excuse to moan about the cost of football and not wanting to attend matches that have to be paid for.

[Juniper Greens]

Don't see why I should pay extra to subsidise people who want standing section.
If anything there should be a loading on that area to help cover the costs of setting it up.

On reflection, I think GreenCastle is at the wind up

[GreenCastle]

But there is a seat. There is also a supplementary rail, so by your own argument "why should people without a rail pay more than people with a rail"

I'd be against hibs offering it cheaper and as I said previously, would actually be willing to pay more

Edit FWIW, killie charge the same for the standing behind the goals as they do for the seats on the halfway line

I’m not on the wind up. Obviously adding new infrastructure means a cost - just like the big screens.

Majority of clubs that have these type of sections offer cheaper tickets - again it’s about making football affordable for all.

I sit in a gold section in East right now and did last year not even getting to see live games in the stadium !! Sat in same seat for a while and that was before the gold / silver / bronze plenty fans will continue to pay to sit centrally whether they keep the prices or increase them. If fans can’t afford it then there are other areas they can move to in the stadium. It’s not like we are selling out the stadium. If they put the price up and it wasn’t in my budget I would move to another area.

What I’m trying to say is there will be die hards / folk who can afford it who will pay for the best seats. Some folk would pay more than just now so would balance out for the cost of the cheaper seats. I’ve said they should look at sponsorship etc for the area too or at worst offer first some sort of initial discount to get fans back / fill the lower tier.

[Blaster]

A full FFL standing area will look good

Then we can discuss what to do with a big empty east stand

[McD]

What would you rather have ? Full lower tier with folk or the current set up?

If we need to cut prices to help promote it - shouldn’t be an issue.

They can raise prices elsewhere in the ground - football should be affordable for all and charging a fan more to come to a game where they don’t even have a seat should surely be cheaper than a seat ?

Fans need to be a little more open minded here - it will pay for itself over time with more fans coming back to ER and enjoying the match day experience.


so to be clear, you want a standing area because it will improve atmosphere and there’s a huge demand for it - but you think we should lower the prices in this area after spending a not insignificant amount of money to make the changes, to attract more fans in?! Yet this thread appears to show there’s a huge demand. And not only that, charge other people in the stadium more to pay for it?!

Hibs spend money to put something in that you want (and others tbf), and want other fans to foot the bill after Hibs have laid out the initial costs? #weareallhibs indeed


i think a safe standing zone would be brilliant, and agree that FFL is the best place to do it. I do not agree that prices should be lower in what will be a very high demand area of the stadium, and do not agree that fans sitting elsewhere should be bearing any cost towards it. Sponsorship of the area (as you’ve suggested), a small temporary increase for the occupants in this area to cover it, maybe another option, definitely not what you’ve described in this quoted post

[NAE NOOKIE]

so to be clear, you want a standing area because it will improve atmosphere and there’s a huge demand for it - but you think we should lower the prices in this area after spending a not insignificant amount of money to make the changes, to attract more fans in?! Yet this thread appears to show there’s a huge demand. And not only that, charge other people in the stadium more to pay for it?!

Hibs spend money to put something in that you want (and others tbf), and want other fans to foot the bill after Hibs have laid out the initial costs? #weareallhibs indeed


i think a safe standing zone would be brilliant, and agree that FFL is the best place to do it. I do not agree that prices should be lower in what will be a very high demand area of the stadium, and do not agree that fans sitting elsewhere should be bearing any cost towards it. Sponsorship of the area (as you’ve suggested), a small temporary increase for the occupants in this area to cover it, maybe another option, definitely not what you’ve described in this quoted post

Agree with this for the most part.

The conversation around the FF lower being a standing area is about improving the atmosphere and also giving folk who want to stand the chance to do so in the part of the stadium most suited to it. It's no secret that I've been a massive advocate of this for years.

What it can't be is a discussion around lowering prices.

The whole point is to benefit Hibs by improving the atmosphere in the stadium which will hopefully make the Easter Road experience more enjoyable for the spectators and also benefit the team on the park by providing it with better vocal support. If Hibs providing such a safe standing area is going to lead to a call for cheaper tickets for that area I can't see Hibs going for it and why should they? The whole point is to improve the club and costing it money without a return it can show on the balance sheet is hardly doing that is it?

The return will hopefully come through encouraging more folk along because the atmosphere is good and through a small percentage rise in the teams performance on the back of that better atmosphere, but it's not something that can be shown in the accounts, all they will say is that the club spent 200K creating a safe standing area and nothing more ........ accountants aren't impressed by intangibles like how the better atmosphere may be leading to a few hundred more fans through the gate and the team winning a few more points than they might have at home and I doubt the owner would be either.

If folk seriously do want to see a safe standing section then I'm sure I can pretty well guarantee that asking the club / Ron Gordon to fork out 200K plus for the privilege of charging 500 to 1000 folk less to get in than they already do is not the way to get it.

The FF lower is already part of the cheapest areas to watch from and that shouldn't change, but no way will it be made any cheaper than that, standing area or not.

[NAE NOOKIE]

A full FFL standing area will look good

Then we can discuss what to do with a big empty east stand

Most of the FF lower occupants will still be in the stadium mate, mostly in the east replacing some of the folk who have moved out. It wasn't so long ago that we were posting crowds of 16 to 17 thousand on a regular basis and most of that number were actually in their seats rather than including a couple of thousand who owned season tickets but couldn't be arsed to go like it is just now. Though I am aware that Covid has put some folk off being part of large gatherings too, which could account for some absentees.

Whatever the case, we have proved we can achieve the sort of crowds that can more or less fill the east no matter how many folk move to the FF lower. At this stage where only around 10 to 11 thousand are turning up I for one would rather see a thousand fans in the FF lower making a noise, waving flags and all that trying to create an atmosphere than what we have just now ... if that leaves the east looking a bit sparse so be it, at least it's less visible on the telly.

[Juniper Greens]

Most of the FF lower occupants will still be in the stadium mate, mostly in the east replacing some of the folk who have moved out. It wasn't so long ago that we were posting crowds of 16 to 17 thousand on a regular basis and most of that number were actually in their seats rather than including a couple of thousand who owned season tickets but couldn't be arsed to go like it is just now. Though I am aware that Covid has put some folk off being part of large gatherings too, which could account for some absentees.

Whatever the case, we have proved we can achieve the sort of crowds that can more or less fill the east no matter how many folk move to the FF lower. At this stage where only around 10 to 11 thousand are turning up I for one would rather see a thousand fans in the FF lower making a noise, waving flags and all that trying to create an atmosphere than what we have just now ... if that leaves the east looking a bit sparse so be it, at least it's less visible on the telly.

It's the most visible stand on the TV? Other than that, I can lind of see your point, however, how many of the 16k do you think we have permanently lost during the pandemic? In our group of 12, 2 aren't coming back, as they have found other things to do on a Saturday

[PatHead]

One other thing to consider when looking at pricing is that if fans moved from East gold or silver to a discounted area that would involve a loss of income for the club.
Fans being moved from the FF lower, particularly families may not be able to afford to move to the more expensive areas. Surely a package for them is more reasonable rather than for the singing section.
A discount for a standing section is a non starter. Not against the standing section but fans need to be realistic about funding it.

[GreenCastle]

Fair points and I agree the club will never go for it if it doesn’t bring in similar or more money.

They would need to be creative though to try not upset too many people. There are a few issues needing addressed..hopefully before next ST renewal information is posted to fans.

1 - price of tickets - some fans saying too expensive to attend currently
2 - regular ST no shows
3 - regular FF ST no shows
4 - lack of stadium atmosphere
5 - possible relocation of FF ST holders
6 - pricing of current areas - currently gold doesn’t give you much else except a slightly better seat.

[RIP]

In 2009-2010 I picked up on a faltering fan campaign to develop a singing section at Easter Road. After building a database of 480 names, I then worked with Fife Hyland to promote the East Stand Singing Section in the top ten rows of S43 of the East.

It was no coincidence that fans on the database preferred that area which was in line with the ‘gantry’ singing area within the Old East. For the next two seasons, under the mantra of Hibs12thMan and Sect43, supporter activists added colourful Tifo and a varied songbook into the match day atmosphere. On it’s day, S43 was the best singing section in the country.

A splinter group then moved down the front which led to a disunited singing effort between the two groups. That front group then moved to the FF Upper but most of the fans in the upper rows of S43 stayed put. Then two years ago some fans from the FF upper moved back into the East. In spite of better results in recent seasons, and despite the valiant efforts of our ‘ultras’,the effectiveness of fan singing at Easter Road has never been on the par with that 2010-2012 period.

To develop a Safe Standing / Singing Section in the FF relies as much on 000s of fans moving in as 00s of fans moving out. I think expecting fans to move from a side on view of the ground to an end on view will be the biggest challenge. We would need at least a thousand’ sign-ups before the club would be convinced to take things further IMO.

[NAE NOOKIE]

In 2009-2010 I picked up on a faltering fan campaign to develop a singing section at Easter Road. After building a database of 480 names, I then worked with Fife Hyland to promote the East Stand Singing Section in the top ten rows of S43 of the East.

It was no coincidence that fans on the database preferred that area which was in line with the ‘gantry’ singing area within the Old East. For the next two seasons, under the mantra of Hibs12thMan and Sect43, supporter activists added colourful Tifo and a varied songbook into the match day atmosphere. On it’s day, S43 was the best singing section in the country.

A splinter group then moved down the front which led to a disunited singing effort between the two groups. That front group then moved to the FF Upper but most of the fans in the upper rows of S43 stayed put. Then two years ago some fans from the FF upper moved back into the East. In spite of better results in recent seasons, and despite the valiant efforts of our ‘ultras’,the effectiveness of fan singing at Easter Road has never been on the par with that 2010-2012 period.

To develop a Safe Standing / Singing Section in the FF relies as much on 000s of fans moving in as 00s of fans moving out. I think expecting fans to move from a side on view of the ground to an end on view will be the biggest challenge. We would need at least a thousand’ sign-ups before the club would be convinced to take things further IMO.

A very interesting post mate.

In my opinion what would be different in the FF lower is that for the first time the people who want to contribute to, or simply be part of, an 'ultras' or singing section would have a fully separate and fully self contained part of the stadium to call their own. Not 'block this' or 'section that' but simply the FF lower.

That to me would ramp up their sense of identity 100% and reinvigorate not only their matchday efforts but also bring new and far more successful impetus to their attempts to grow their numbers .... I am fully convinced that if the club made it known they were looking for indications of interest for participation in an FF lower singing section the 1000 fans number could be reached fairly comfortably, with more to come once the section was up and running.

If there are different groups just now who disagree about where to go in the east, with no doubt disagreement over other matters as well, then surely the promise of finally being allowed the FF lower with it's 2000 spaces would be the ideal time to get together and hammer things out for the greater good.

So far as I can see all that needs to be firmly agreed on is that any form of sectarian singing is totally out and smoke bombs and especially flares are an absolute no no .... That aside any other disagreements could only be based on some idiots with massive egos who think they are more important than the club they support.

As for watching from behind the goals ... Look at ultras in practically every league in the world, almost always behind one goal because that's what ultras do, for them creating an atmosphere is just as important ( if not more important ) than a prime view of the game.

[RIP]

A very interesting post mate.

In my opinion what would be different in the FF lower is that for the first time the people who want to contribute to, or simply be part of, an 'ultras' or singing section would have a fully separate and fully self contained part of the stadium to call their own. Not 'block this' or 'section that' but simply the FF lower.

That to me would ramp up their sense of identity 100% and reinvigorate not only their matchday efforts but also bring new and far more successful impetus to their attempts to grow their numbers .... I am fully convinced that if the club made it known they were looking for indications of interest for participation in an FF lower singing section the 1000 fans number could be reached fairly comfortably, with more to come once the section was up and running.

If there are different groups just now who disagree about where to go in the east, with no doubt disagreement over other matters as well, then surely the promise of finally being allowed the FF lower with it's 2000 spaces would be the ideal time to get together and hammer things out for the greater good.

So far as I can see all that needs to be firmly agreed on is that any form of sectarian singing is totally out and smoke bombs and especially flares are an absolute no no .... That aside any other disagreements could only be based on some idiots with massive egos who think they are more important than the club they support.

As for watching from behind the goals ... Look at ultras in practically every league in the world, almost always behind one goal because that's what ultras do, for them creating an atmosphere is just as important ( if not more important ) than a prime view of the game.

I’m not arguing against the North just saying that what we have found in the past is that a lot of our standing fans prefer a side on view. Been like that since the Cowshed. The trial in the FF upper showed that only a couple of hundred fans were prepared to move from the East. Many preferred the proximity to the away fans.

My point is that until we get a thousand or more fans signed up to a Safe Standing campaign, we will continue to witter on about this topic on the forums for years - with no change. It needs the formation of an activist group and a formal dialogue with club management to get things moving.

As per your post, the ultras’ in the Hibs support number in the low hundreds rather than 1,000, in my experience.

[Hermit Crab]

Anyone watching the Nantes v Monaco game? Check the terracing/safe standing behind the goal. Thats what I would like at ER.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Ok scrub the question above, just found out it’s about 2000 seats in the FF lower.you get an increase in capacity with rail seats which might push it up to around 2600 ( making our capacity even bigger than Tynie) rail seats cost about £70 each, but there are bound to be other costs, so you can increase that to maybe £100 a seat in real terms, meaning it would cost about 260,000 to put rail seats in the whole of the FF lower.

Do it Ron ! :agree:

You get absolutely no increase in capaciry with rail seats..just a different oersective for the spectator

[hibbyfraelibby]

I'd convert the FFL and the South lower. Give away fans the choice as well. Seating in the upper and standing in the lower. In time the East could be converted as well I suppose.

I'd go further and convert all the lower sections of all the stands, including the 4 rows down the front of the East which right now have restricted views whenever the LED boards are used.

[Steven79]

I'd go further and convert all the lower sections of all the stands, including the 4 rows down the front of the East which right now have restricted views whenever the LED boards are used.

And the ones in the middle are classed as "Gold" as well...

[Renfrew_Hibby]

You get absolutely no increase in capaciry with rail seats..just a different oersective for the spectator

How does it work in Germany regarding capacity?
For example Dortmund can get around 80,000 in for league matches where standing is permitted yet when the seats have to be in place for Champions League games capacity drops to something like 65,000.
Likewise how can Everton build a stadium which will have a seated capacity of 52,000 but should the law change it will then be able to accommodate 60,000.
Are these different seating/standing systems from what we are proposing for Easter Road?

[LancashireHibby]

How does it work in Germany regarding capacity?
For example Dortmund can get around 80,000 in for league matches where standing is permitted yet when the seats have to be in place for Champions League games capacity drops to something like 65,000.
Likewise how can Everton build a stadium which will have a seated capacity of 52,000 but should the law change it will then be able to accommodate 60,000.
Are these different seating/standing systems from what we are proposing for Easter Road?
Happy to be corrected, but my understanding is that they have an extra step between each barrier so can allocate 1.5 people per seat, with the expectation that each person stands on alternate steps as you go along the row so that everybody has a clear(er) view.

In theory, since the Taylor report didn’t legally apply in Scotland, there’s no reason why a similar arrangement couldn’t be allowed for SPFL games, but of course it would not only mean the cost of installing the barriers but also the expense of reconfiguring the terracing. Even then, concourse capacities and turnstile entry flows (can’t you tell I do this stuff for work!) will all be designed on the current seating capacities, particularly for stands built since the early 1990s, so I’d say there’s little to no chance of it happening.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Happy to be corrected, but my understanding is that they have an extra step between each barrier so can allocate 1.5 people per seat, with the expectation that each person stands on alternate steps as you go along the row so that everybody has a clear(er) view.

In theory, since the Taylor report didn’t legally apply in Scotland, there’s no reason why a similar arrangement couldn’t be allowed for SPFL games, but of course it would not only mean the cost of installing the barriers but also the expense of reconfiguring the terracing. Even then, concourse capacities and turnstile entry flows (can’t you tell I do this stuff for work!) will all be designed on the current seating capacities, particularly for stands built since the early 1990s, so I’d say there’s little to no chance of it happening.

Got it, thanks for that!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Happy to be corrected, but my understanding is that they have an extra step between each barrier so can allocate 1.5 people per seat, with the expectation that each person stands on alternate steps as you go along the row so that everybody has a clear(er) view.

In theory, since the Taylor report didn’t legally apply in Scotland, there’s no reason why a similar arrangement couldn’t be allowed for SPFL games, but of course it would not only mean the cost of installing the barriers but also the expense of reconfiguring the terracing. Even then, concourse capacities and turnstile entry flows (can’t you tell I do this stuff for work!) will all be designed on the current seating capacities, particularly for stands built since the early 1990s, so I’d say there’s little to no chance of it happening.

IMO there's no need to expand the actual capacity of the FF lower. One standing space per current seat would be absolutely fine giving a capacity of 2000 which is as much as we need for a singing section, keeping the terrace as it is would also mean shortarses like me would still be able to see the pitch unless the person in front was over 6'2"

For European games there would be nothing required other than to unlock the seats and have 2000 sitting rather than standing.

[Since452]

Is this something that the club are actively considering or is it just a debate on here? Is it even on the clubs radar? Maybe KP could tell us if the club is aware that there appears to be an appetite for it. It would be good if the club could run a survey on social media or email those on the database to establish interest.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Is this something that the club are actively considering or is it just a debate on here? Is it even on the clubs radar? Maybe KP could tell us if the club is aware that there appears to be an appetite for it. It would be good if the club could run a survey on social media or email those on the database to establish interest.

There's never been any hint from Hibs that an FF lower safe standing area is on the agenda. But there does seem to be growing support for it among the fans, especially in view of the fact that there seems to be growing calls from fans for standing areas in all seater stadiums down south with many clubs sympathetic to the idea, and the undeniable fact that for some time now the FF lower has been ( to be kind ) under occupied by the demographic it has been set aside for.

There has always been a debate over the lack of atmosphere at ER since the east was built, it died down somewhat when the crowds grew to 15 to 18 thousand after 2016, but now that the crowds have dropped off again the lack of atmosphere is perhaps even more obvious than it was before ... If Hibs have consciously decided not to engage in this debate up until now it's high time that changed because surely even the folk who park their bums in the comfy executive seats in our directors box want a better atmosphere for the team and for Easter Road to have a better reputation as a tough place for visiting teams to come to than it currently enjoys.

At this point in my opinion the only way to do that is with an FF lower standing section and as you say at the very least Hibs should be starting a consultation process in order to ascertain just how much support their is for it ... in all honest I cant see why anybody would oppose at least the idea of it .... we need to do something FFS and we should have well before now.

[PatHead]

There's never been any hint from Hibs that an FF lower safe standing area is on the agenda. But there does seem to be growing support for it among the fans, especially in view of the fact that there seems to be growing calls from fans for standing areas in all seater stadiums down south with many clubs sympathetic to the idea, and the undeniable fact that for some time now the FF lower has been ( to be kind ) under occupied by the demographic it has been set aside for.

There has always been a debate over the lack of atmosphere at ER since the east was built, it died down somewhat when the crowds grew to 15 to 18 thousand after 2016, but now that the crowds have dropped off again the lack of atmosphere is perhaps even more obvious than it was before ... If Hibs have consciously decided not to engage in this debate up until now it's high time that changed because surely even the folk who park their bums in the comfy executive seats in our directors box want a better atmosphere for the team and for Easter Road to have a better reputation as a tough place for visiting teams to come to than it currently enjoys.

At this point in my opinion the only way to do that is with an FF lower standing section and as you say at the very least Hibs should be starting a consultation process in order to ascertain just how much support their is for it ... in all honest I cant see why anybody would oppose at least the idea of it .... we need to do something FFS and we should have well before now.

It took RIP to organise a "petition" which kick started S43. Rather than various posters coming on here telling us that it will fill up why doesn't one of you organise a list of names. If there is the interest you anticipate a dialogue could be started.

Can't see the club splashing out a small fortune creating a section for a few fans. You need to have some hard facts not just opinions or feelings. As RIP said maybe fans won't want to move from a good seat in the east.

[Hermit Crab]

It took RIP to organise a "petition" which kick started S43. Rather than various posters coming on here telling us that it will fill up why doesn't one of you organise a list of names. If there is the interest you anticipate a dialogue could be started.

Can't see the club splashing out a small fortune creating a section for a few fans. You need to have some hard facts not just opinions or feelings. As RIP said maybe fans won't want to move from a good seat in the east.



You'd be surprised, RG very much wants to improve the atmosphere within the stadium on match days.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It took RIP to organise a "petition" which kick started S43. Rather than various posters coming on here telling us that it will fill up why doesn't one of you organise a list of names. If there is the interest you anticipate a dialogue could be started.

Can't see the club splashing out a small fortune creating a section for a few fans. You need to have some hard facts not just opinions or feelings. As RIP said maybe fans won't want to move from a good seat in the east.

I'm sure some of the folk involved in our various fan groups could come up with something. A poll on here would be of limited value given the demographic that use Hibs.Net most of whom would be unlikely to want to actually use the standing section, it's the younger age group we need to engage with.

Having said that, as a decades long ( I'm 61 ) patron of the FF lower and the Coo Shed before that, right up until this season when I moved to the upper I have always been a fan of making it standing and even when I did sit there I would have been happy to move to the east or FF upper in order to accommodate a standing area and I've seen other FF lower users say the same if it will benefit the team and improve the atmosphere. I appreciate that not everybody would be of a like mind.

As for folk with 'good seats' in the east. That's a point, but I can't help feeling there are quite a few folk in the east who only sit there because there isn't a dedicated proper all singing all dancing safe standing section the can become part of .... they haven't been won over by tiny blocks given over to the singing section in the east or FF upper because it has always seemed a bit of a half hearted compromise and at times even cliquey to a degree, as witness by the various fallings out there seems to be from time to time within the groups using these sections.

Hopefully a 2000 capacity self contained section would change all that, as I'm convinced it would.

In the end though I would still prefer it if Hibs were to get on board and at least help in a consultation exercise .... They could make it clear they are only testing the water at this stage without actually committing to immediately taking action if there is a positive reaction to the idea. But at the end of the day folk like me aren't calling for the club to build a brand new stand costing millions, we are simply calling for a 'relatively' inexpensive change to the stadium that if it goes well could take the atmosphere and the matchday experience for everybody to another level. That shouldn't be taken lightly by any club if you ask me.

[Since452]

There's never been any hint from Hibs that an FF lower safe standing area is on the agenda. But there does seem to be growing support for it among the fans, especially in view of the fact that there seems to be growing calls from fans for standing areas in all seater stadiums down south with many clubs sympathetic to the idea, and the undeniable fact that for some time now the FF lower has been ( to be kind ) under occupied by the demographic it has been set aside for.

There has always been a debate over the lack of atmosphere at ER since the east was built, it died down somewhat when the crowds grew to 15 to 18 thousand after 2016, but now that the crowds have dropped off again the lack of atmosphere is perhaps even more obvious than it was before ... If Hibs have consciously decided not to engage in this debate up until now it's high time that changed because surely even the folk who park their bums in the comfy executive seats in our directors box want a better atmosphere for the team and for Easter Road to have a better reputation as a tough place for visiting teams to come to than it currently enjoys.

At this point in my opinion the only way to do that is with an FF lower standing section and as you say at the very least Hibs should be starting a consultation process in order to ascertain just how much support their is for it ... in all honest I cant see why anybody would oppose at least the idea of it .... we need to do something FFS and we should have well before now.

An excellent point. I'm all for a family section but a bunch of kids with their faces panted behind the goals doesn't exactly intimidate the opposition.

[Onceinawhile]

An excellent point. I'm all for a family section but a bunch of kids with their faces panted behind the goals doesn't exactly intimidate the opposition.

I mean Aberdeen have had their 'red shed' for a while now and if anything their results are plateuaing at best. I hardly think a bunch of folk singing for the first 5 minutes of a game v St mirren is going to make a huge difference.

[Hermit Crab]

The issue we've got, albeit not a major one is the fact that clubs who installed rail seating at grounds have installed them in areas where fans have stood for years regardless whether it was seated or not. Man city - South stand lower, Chelsea - shed lower, Celtic - that corner. Fans haven't stood in that North stand at ER since the terracing was replaced with benches in 1982. So the tradition of fans standing in the FFL has long since disappeared. It may be hard to convince FFL die hards to move if we want to install rail seating.

[Steven79]

An excellent point. I'm all for a family section but a bunch of kids with their faces panted behind the goals doesn't exactly intimidate the opposition.

No it dosen't.

Compare our end in the second half compared to Rangers, Celtic & Hearts at Easter Road and it's putting us at a disadvantage.

I would also put smaller away supports in the upper tier rather than the lower as we need to use everthing we can to gain an advantage.

[SChibs]

I'm sure some of the folk involved in our various fan groups could come up with something. A poll on here would be of limited value given the demographic that use Hibs.Net most of whom would be unlikely to want to actually use the standing section, it's the younger age group we need to engage with.

Having said that, as a decades long ( I'm 61 ) patron of the FF lower and the Coo Shed before that, right up until this season when I moved to the upper I have always been a fan of making it standing and even when I did sit there I would have been happy to move to the east or FF upper in order to accommodate a standing area and I've seen other FF lower users say the same if it will benefit the team and improve the atmosphere. I appreciate that not everybody would be of a like mind.

As for folk with 'good seats' in the east. That's a point, but I can't help feeling there are quite a few folk in the east who only sit there because there isn't a dedicated proper all singing all dancing safe standing section the can become part of .... they haven't been won over by tiny blocks given over to the singing section in the east or FF upper because it has always seemed a bit of a half hearted compromise and at times even cliquey to a degree, as witness by the various fallings out there seems to be from time to time within the groups using these sections.

Hopefully a 2000 capacity self contained section would change all that, as I'm convinced it would.

In the end though I would still prefer it if Hibs were to get on board and at least help in a consultation exercise .... They could make it clear they are only testing the water at this stage without actually committing to immediately taking action if there is a positive reaction to the idea. But at the end of the day folk like me aren't calling for the club to build a brand new stand costing millions, we are simply calling for a 'relatively' inexpensive change to the stadium that if it goes well could take the atmosphere and the matchday experience for everybody to another level. That shouldn't be taken lightly by any club if you ask me.

Good post. I feel like the problem is not enough people care about creating a good atmosphere or actually making it intimidating. I see a lot of folk saying we should do x, and z to improve atmosphere but not doing anything to help it themselves on a match day. It's embarrassing going away to Livi and their 'section' has more people in it than ours, likewise with Motherwell.

[Steven79]

The issue we've got, albeit not a major one is the fact that clubs who installed rail seating at grounds have installed them in areas where fans have stood for years regardless whether it was seated or not. Man city - South stand lower, Chelsea - shed lower, Celtic - that corner. Fans haven't stood in that North stand at ER since the terracing was replaced with benches in 1982. So the tradition of fans standing in the FFL has long since disappeared. It may be hard to convince FFL die hards to move if we want to install rail seating.

If they want what's best for the team and club as a whole then...

[Hermit Crab]

No it dosen't.

Compare our end in the second half compared to Rangers, Celtic & Hearts at Easter Road and it's putting us at a disadvantage.

I would also put smaller away supports in the upper tier rather than the lower as we need to use everthing we can to gain an advantage.


I've said this for years. Upper tier for smaller groups of travelling fans and block off those 2 very front rows as well. Further away the away fans are the better for us.

[NAE NOOKIE]

An excellent point. I'm all for a family section but a bunch of kids with their faces panted behind the goals doesn't exactly intimidate the opposition.

Certainly no more than a couple of hundred folk and a drum situated in the part of a stadium most clubs would choose to put the away fans in in an attempt to neuter their affect on the game :agree:

Hibs must be the only club in the UK, if not Europe, who put the away fans front and centre and their own most vocal support in a part of the stadium where they can virtually be ignored :bitchy:

[Hermit Crab]

If they want what's best for the team and club as a whole then...


I know mate, just saying though. There will defo be one or two who will point blank refuse to move. Thats entirely up to them though and not a lot we an do about it as they've paid their money.

[Steven79]

I've said this for years. Upper tier for smaller groups of travelling fans and block off those 2 very front rows as well. Further away the away fans are the better for us.

It makes so much sense and it's time that the club started putting them in the upper.

They can hardly complain with a better view can they?

[Steven79]

I know mate, just saying though. There will defo be one or two who will point blank refuse to move. Thats entirely up to them though and not a lot we an do about it as they've paid their money.

Sell them with the condition that they know what the section in the FFL is for.

I sit in the lower as I have kids but the only time I've really enjoyed it apart from the big games is the Inverness cup tie otherwise it's dead.

[Hermit Crab]

It makes so much sense and it's time that the club started putting them in the upper.

They can hardly complain with a better view can they?


Only issue you might have is folk with mobility issues and wheelchair users who would need to be in the lower section.

[Since452]

I've said this for years. Upper tier for smaller groups of travelling fans and block off those 2 very front rows as well. Further away the away fans are the better for us.


Totally agree.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I know mate, just saying though. There will defo be one or two who will point blank refuse to move. Thats entirely up to them though and not a lot we an do about it as they've paid their money.

Well that's funny mate, because as I alluded to in another post I had sat in the FF lower for decades and the Coo Shed before that, but once I couldn't be part of a 'family group' Hibs didn't have any problem punting me from the part of the stadium I had watched games from for decades. I was fine with it actually because I had always wanted to sit in the FF upper .... but as it stands I wasn't given a choice about moving from the FF lower.

If the club sees a benefit in changing policy in any part of the stadium they will do it and if folk don't like it 'simply refusing to move' isn't an option. I'm not for a second saying that's ideal and I would certainly want Hibs to find a decent compromise for folk who don't want to move. But if a decision is reached that it's to the clubs benefit and a majority of fans support the move then it has to be done IMO.

In the end this is not a stadium that suffers from restricted views, practically any seat at ER will give you a good view of the game.

[Hermit Crab]

Totally agree.


St Johnstone, Motherwell, Ross County, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Mirren and Livingston fans should all be housed in the upper tier blocks closest to the West stand.

Aberdeen should get half the top tier to begin with and given half the Lower if they sell out the top tier.

Hearts, Celtic and Rangers get the whole end.


We also have a big problem with away fans squeezing into the lower, happens every time against hearts and the OF. Problem is it cant be segregated inside the stand as theres access to both the upper and lower sections from within the concourse underneath.

[Steven79]

St Johnstone, Motherwell, Ross County, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Mirren and Livingston fans should all be housed in the upper tier blocks closest to the West stand.

Aberdeen should get half the top tier to begin with and given half the Lower if they sell out the top tier.

Hearts, Celtic and Rangers get the whole end.

I can't see how anybody can argue with that.

[GreenCastle]

Season Ticket info usually comes out about April i think..

So basically only a few months for Hibs to look at this and make plans to make a change / advertise a new section for next season.

Then would mean after last home game looking to install the new rails with seats.

Celtic use this company - https://www.fercoseating.com/products/sports-seating/railseat_safe_standing_stadium_seat/

They have a few options of designs on their website with the RailSeat Ultra the most recent update edition.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Season Ticket info usually comes out about April i think..

So basically only a few months for Hibs to look at this and make plans to make a change / advertise a new section for next season.

Then would mean after last home game looking to install the new rails with seats.

Celtic use this company - https://www.fercoseating.com/products/sports-seating/railseat_safe_standing_stadium_seat/

They have a few options of designs on their website with the RailSeat Ultra the most recent update edition.

A deliberate football related pun I presume :greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

A deliberate football related pun I presume :greengrin

The RailSeat Bam is bespoke for the Scottish market.

[Keith_M]

Happy to be corrected, but my understanding is that they have an extra step between each barrier so can allocate 1.5 people per seat, with the expectation that each person stands on alternate steps as you go along the row so that everybody has a clear(er) view.

In theory, since the Taylor report didn’t legally apply in Scotland, there’s no reason why a similar arrangement couldn’t be allowed for SPFL games, but of course it would not only mean the cost of installing the barriers but also the expense of reconfiguring the terracing. Even then, concourse capacities and turnstile entry flows (can’t you tell I do this stuff for work!) will all be designed on the current seating capacities, particularly for stands built since the early 1990s, so I’d say there’s little to no chance of it happening.


Depends on the stadium but at Dortmund the capacity in the standing section is about 80% higher that when it's seated.

I think Bayern's terracing only increases by about 40%, which is a bit weird, as it's basically the same type of terracing.

[LaMotta]

It makes so much sense and it's time that the club started putting them in the upper.

They can hardly complain with a better view can they?

Always surprised when people say that they the think upper tier provides a better view. Too far away for me, much prefer the lower tier.

[Steven79]

Alwats surprised when people say that they the think upper tier provides a better view. Too far away for me, much prefer the lower tier.I think you get a better view of the whole pitch from higher up while the lower is great when you are attacking in the second half not so good in the first half.

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[LaMotta]

I think you get a better view of the whole pitch from higher up while the lower is great when you are attacking in the second half not so good in the first half.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Could be right mate. I think in general the best seats at ER are towards the back of the bottom tier.

Whilst I understand the rationale for putting away fans in the top tier, I think it's not good for the image of our game or for Hibs to have large empty sections of the ground visible on TV. Away fans should be shifted to the other side of the south lower for that reason IMO.

[Steven79]

Could be right mate. I think in general the best seats at ER are towards the back of the bottom tier.

Whilst I understand the rationale for putting away fans in the top tier, I think it's not good for the image of our game or for Hibs to have large empty sections of the ground visible on TV. Away fans should be shifted to the other side of the south lower for that reason IMO.I sit right at the very back row of the FFL right in the middle behind the goals but occasionally go upstairs for cup ties.

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[LaMotta]

I sit right at the very back row of the FFL right in the middle behind the goals but occasionally go upstairs for cup ties.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Great seat you have there mate:agree:

[Steven79]

Great seat you have there mate:agree:Yeah it is, I had front row of the upper last season (not that I got to sit in them) but when these became available I snapped them up.

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[LaMotta]

Yeah it is, I had front row of the upper last season (not that I got to sit in them) but when these became available I snapped them up.

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Glad you agree the bottom tier is better:greengrin

[WestCoastHibby]

I prefer standing. Simple as that