Is there something structurally wrong at ER?

[Liberal Hibby]

Asides of the merits/demerits of sacking Ross and Potter we seem to be in a cycle of no more than two years with someone as Head Coach. Pretty much everyone gets something out of the squad inititally and then it all goes wrong (either faster eg Butcher or slower eg Ross) until such time as the club has to act by starting out over again.

The point of the Director of Football structure is as I understand it to provide a stable structure for player and coaching development. It's supposed to provide a conveyor belt of talent (both home grown and purchased) not dependent on who's coach at anyone time. It's also supposed to mean there's a long term culture and style developed so whoever comes in becomes the 'guardian' of it rather than its creator.

Successful clubs historically have usually either had a single manager/coach long term at the top (Fergie/Wenger/Smith/Stein etc) or a coaching 'pool' - think Liverpool 70s/80s where they had a series of home grown coaches susccessfully promoted from within.

None of that's worked at Hibs over the last 20 years where for most of the period we have tried to establish a 'Hibs way' of doing things and where the behind the scenes structures and culture are more important than who is head coach at any one time.

What's gone wrong?

[RIP]

Fantastic post.

Unfortunately a majority of the fans, the new owner and the new CEO have never understood the ‘Hibernian Way’ model designed by the Let’s Work Together team of board members and fans. Leeann understood it and brought in George Craig, Graeme Mathie and Alan Stubbs.

Fans still rabbit on about a manager at Easter Road. Terry Butcher was our last manager. We won the Scottish Cup with a Head Coach, played attacking football under another Head Coach and got a third place and to Hampden several times with another Head Coach.

With Mathie and Ross away I’m not sure if the Hibernian Way model has also been ditched?

[FilipinoHibs]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

[fiolex1]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.
100%

[WhileTheChief..]

Too nice / boy band has been our problem for 20+ years.

The club and the fans. We need to collectively grow a set, man up and develop a nasty streak.

[Lendo]

Too nice / boy band has been our problem for 20+ years.

The club and the fans. We need to collectively grow a set, man up and develop a nasty streak.

I have no idea what this actually means.

[Northernhibee]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

Throwing your toys out of the pram and blaming all and sundry when you lose isn’t accepting only the best.

What we need is a manager who can learn from mistakes and evolve. I think that we’ve had plenty managers who have tried to do that with varying success.

[Northernhibee]

I have no idea what this actually means.

I can help you with that - nothing.

[SaulGoodman]

Too nice / boy band has been our problem for 20+ years.

The club and the fans. We need to collectively grow a set, man up and develop a nasty streak.

I’m confused, should I start acting nastier at the games? Will that help the team?

[Steve88]

Asides of the merits/demerits of sacking Ross and Potter we seem to be in a cycle of no more than two years with someone as Head Coach. Pretty much everyone gets something out of the squad inititally and then it all goes wrong (either faster eg Butcher or slower eg Ross) until such time as the club has to act by starting out over again.

The point of the Director of Football structure is as I understand it to provide a stable structure for player and coaching development. It's supposed to provide a conveyor belt of talent (both home grown and purchased) not dependent on who's coach at anyone time. It's also supposed to mean there's a long term culture and style developed so whoever comes in becomes the 'guardian' of it rather than its creator.

Successful clubs historically have usually either had a single manager/coach long term at the top (Fergie/Wenger/Smith/Stein etc) or a coaching 'pool' - think Liverpool 70s/80s where they had a series of home grown coaches susccessfully promoted from within.

None of that's worked at Hibs over the last 20 years where for most of the period we have tried to establish a 'Hibs way' of doing things and where the behind the scenes structures and culture are more important than who is head coach at any one time.

What's gone wrong?

There's no such thing as a long term manager, there are only short term managers who keep on winning

[ScottB]

Realistically, we will never have consistency, as for the most part any manager, coach or player we have will either prove to be good, in which case they’ll move on to a higher level, or not good enough, and leave.

There’s a grey area in the middle, for players, if one’s good enough to stay but not good enough to move up a level, Hanlon, Stevenson etc.

So yeah, the club will always be in flux. What we need is that overarching leadership that can be more long term, actively planning for that. So we have a ‘Hibs way’ of playing, that means each new coach or player fits into an existing puzzle, rather than each new coach wanting something very different, as we can’t just tear up the squad completely every 2 years. We also need long term planning, so not just who is going to get the top job now, who are we keeping an eye on for next time? We’ve got Nisbet up front just now, what other lower league talent are we tracking for when he goes?

An acceptance of that constant change and planning for it is probably the best thing we could do as a club for me.

[Fergus52]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

This means absolutely nothing. If a manager had hibs coming second or third in the league every season I'd be absolutely delighted.

I find chat about "winning mentality" so tiresome, it doesn't mean anything and is just an easy thing to come out with when things aren't going well.

[Skol]

Very few clubs will have a manager for the long term. If they are good they will move to a better role, if they are not good they lose their job. Not since Alex Miller I guess have we stuck by a manager for a lengthy period of time even when things didnt look great.

I am a bit bemused by view that accepting 2nd or 3rd being the problem. That's just nonsense IMO. Of course I want Hibs to finish first, but lets be honest not since 1985/6 has anyone outside the Old Firm had a realistic shot. The nature of the Scottish game is that those two have significant financial advantages and only with a huge stroke of luck can any other team realistically break that. In fact only Hearts have split the OF since then. What I do agree is that we should finish 3rd more often than we do. A 15 year gap is unacceptable, but for too many years we were a bottom 6 club hoping to make the top 6. In recent years we have become a top 6 club with an eye on third place.

For me, if we are regularly top 4 and we are waiting for that one season when there may be an opportunity for top 2, thats as good as it gets in the league. We should also regularly be at hampden with cups wins and also regular european trips.

[Scouse Hibee]

Too nice / boy band has been our problem for 20+ years.

The club and the fans. We need to collectively grow a set, man up and develop a nasty streak.

How do we do that?

[MWHIBBIES]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

What did Lennon address exactly?

[Shrekko]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

Ach well, at least unrealistic expectations aren't part of the problem....

Maybe some of us can't remember winning all those league titles and Scottish Cups under Turnbull.

[mcohibs]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

Lennon addressed our mentality of accepting third best by getting us... fourth?

[oneone73]

Lennon addressed our mentality of accepting third best by getting us... third?

No, but he might have done if he hadn't had a brainfart at Tynie.

[Cat Stanton]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

Are we just ignoring the financial gulf between the old firm and the rest (which didn't exist to anything like the same extent in Turnbull's time) for the convenience of an argument?

[Heisenberg]

So all we need to do is “man up and grow a set” along with demanding we win the league and we’re sorted. Ideal.

[Cat Stanton]

How do we do that?

Did you not read the post? You personally need to:

1. Grow a set.
2. Man up (bit sexist that actually)
3. Be mean.

That will guarantee us the league title, I believe. Get to it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Too nice / boy band has been our problem for 20+ years.

The club and the fans. We need to collectively grow a set, man up and develop a nasty streak.

Its something Graeme Souness or some other desperately out of touch pundit would say. The kind of thing that gets said down the pub after losing a late goal and then becomes a fact. ''we're too soft, we need fighters''.

2007 - Brown, Fletcher, Boozy, Murphy, Whittaker, Jones. Not nasty players (Brown did become one). Just quality players.

2016 - McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Henderson, Stokes, McGregor, Hanlon, Lewis, Gray - quality footballers.

These teams didn't win because they had nasty streaks. They also lost plenty of important games as well. We were tough and strong and had balls when we scored last minute vs Rangers, but a soft boyband when we lost vs Ross County in the LC final?




“I agree Hibs have been soft, I’ve been one of the first to say that about them,” said Lennon.


“Boyband, boyband. That’s what I felt about Hibs, from when I first came to Scottish football as a player for Celtic.

“I played against Scott Brown and Steven Whittaker, lads like that. They would play Celtic, play really well and then go out partying in Edinburgh, getting pats on the back. Then they would go and lose to Motherwell the week after.


“That won’t be tolerated here by me.




Big talk there by Neil. Except us beating Celtic 2-0 at ER, then him getting sacked a few weeks later after losing to Motherwell :faf: After 2.5 years of his BIG WINNER TOUGH MENTALITY we were exactly what he described. And it was absolutely nothing to do with mentality. It was because he replaced McGinn, Fyvie, McGeouch and Henderson with Milligan, Slivka, Mallan and Hyndman. You sign crap, you play crap. Good football players win matches, bad one lose matches. Literally that simple. Lennon actually made the team weaker mentally. Stubbs always bounced back from big losses. Lennon chucked the toys and went in the huff. Loser mentality.

The idea that even the current Hibs side is soft is utter rubbish as well. No, we are playing badly and our squad in thin and lacking in options. Soft teams don't beat Rangers 3-1 at Hampden weeks after a covid outbreak, in bad form, with games called off.

Hibs so called ''soft'' periods have always lined up with having bad players, and our ''tough hard'' periods have been with good footballers. We simple need to be smarter in the transfer market.

[GreenCastle]

Realistically, we will never have consistency, as for the most part any manager, coach or player we have will either prove to be good, in which case they’ll move on to a higher level, or not good enough, and leave.

There’s a grey area in the middle, for players, if one’s good enough to stay but not good enough to move up a level, Hanlon, Stevenson etc.

So yeah, the club will always be in flux. What we need is that overarching leadership that can be more long term, actively planning for that. So we have a ‘Hibs way’ of playing, that means each new coach or player fits into an existing puzzle, rather than each new coach wanting something very different, as we can’t just tear up the squad completely every 2 years. We also need long term planning, so not just who is going to get the top job now, who are we keeping an eye on for next time? We’ve got Nisbet up front just now, what other lower league talent are we tracking for when he goes?

An acceptance of that constant change and planning for it is probably the best thing we could do as a club for me.

Good post.

My concern is we look for a quick fix next.

We need stability but that also applies to Ben.

I’m not sure this sure is the best long term.

Hibs like other similar size clubs will have constant change but we do need to make sure some staff are stable and not constantly changing / starting again.

While LD wasn’t perfect she did seem to get this - by chance or good planning / recruiting.

My concern is if Ben is head hunted or leaves then it took long enough to find a replacement - meaning certain areas of the club took a back seat.

Hibs seems to be a pretty tightly run ship but I just hope we aren’t just making a quick fix as history has shown at Hibs and Hearts in recent years this doesn’t work.

[greenlex]

The two best teams in the country aren’t filled with tough players that have huge baws. They play football. Where was the current champions winning mentality a few weeks ago at Hampden? Beaten by a team of boy band non triers I believe. Loady pish.

[WhileTheChief..]

The two best teams in the country aren’t filled with tough players that have huge baws. They play football. Where was the current champions winning mentality a few weeks ago at Hampden? Beaten by a team of boy band non triers I believe. Loady pish.

Even the hardest teams lose now and again!!

We’re soft. Have been for ages.

[Iain G]

Good post.

My concern is we look for a quick fix next.

We need stability but that also applies to Ben.

I’m not sure this sure is the best long term.

Hibs like other similar size clubs will have constant change but we do need to make sure some staff are stable and not constantly changing / starting again.

While LD wasn’t perfect she did seem to get this - by chance or good planning / recruiting.

My concern is if Ben is head hunted or leaves then it took long enough to find a replacement - meaning certain areas of the club took a back seat.

Hibs seems to be a pretty tightly run ship but I just hope we aren’t just making a quick fix as history has shown at Hibs and Hearts in recent years this doesn’t work.

We looked at the model that the likes of Southampton have in place where if the head coach changes, the structure around him stays the same. We did this with Leeann, George and Mathie and others, so the disruption to our progress and development was kept to a minimum when the coach walked or was sacked. It's the sensible way to not have to rip it up and start again everytime a head coach leaves.

It does feel like this continuity (or Hibs DNA) is being changed under the new ownership though?

[GreenCastle]

We looked at the model that the likes of Southampton have in place where if the head coach changes, the structure around him stays the same. We did this with Leeann, George and Mathie and others, so the disruption to our progress and development was kept to a minimum when the coach walked or was sacked. It's the sensible way to not have to rip it up and start again everytime a head coach leaves.

It does feel like this continuity (or Hibs DNA) is being changed under the new ownership though?

Ben pretty much said we had changed it in the Hibs.net podcast recently.

Maybe someone else can confirm?

[Vault Boy]

Ben pretty much said we had changed it in the Hibs.net podcast recently.

Maybe someone else can confirm?

Yeah he said the head coach structure and the aim to have a consistent background that new head coaches can slip into was staying the same - but Graeme's role has certainly been removed, and Ben did explicitly say to us that Jack was a big part of their planning.

[Brummie_Hibs]

I blame everything apart from the Boogie.

[wookie70]

Its something Graeme Souness or some other desperately out of touch pundit would say. The kind of thing that gets said down the pub after losing a late goal and then becomes a fact. ''we're too soft, we need fighters''.

2007 - Brown, Fletcher, Boozy, Murphy, Whittaker, Jones. Not nasty players (Brown did become one). Just quality players.

2016 - McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Henderson, Stokes, McGregor, Hanlon, Lewis, Gray - quality footballers.

These teams didn't win because they had nasty streaks. They also lost plenty of important games as well. We were tough and strong and had balls when we scored last minute vs Rangers, but a soft boyband when we lost vs Ross County in the LC final?




Big talk there by Neil. Except us beating Celtic 2-0 at ER, then him getting sacked a few weeks later after losing to Motherwell :faf: After 2.5 years of his BIG WINNER TOUGH MENTALITY we were exactly what he described. And it was absolutely nothing to do with mentality. It was because he replaced McGinn, Fyvie, McGeouch and Henderson with Milligan, Slivka, Mallan and Hyndman. You sign crap, you play crap. Good football players win matches, bad one lose matches. Literally that simple. Lennon actually made the team weaker mentally. Stubbs always bounced back from big losses. Lennon chucked the toys and went in the huff. Loser mentality.

The idea that even the current Hibs side is soft is utter rubbish as well. No, we are playing badly and our squad in thin and lacking in options. Soft teams don't beat Rangers 3-1 at Hampden weeks after a covid outbreak, in bad form, with games called off.

Hibs so called ''soft'' periods have always lined up with having bad players, and our ''tough hard'' periods have been with good footballers. We simple need to be smarter in the transfer market.


Spot on. And the injuries to key players on top of awful recruitment in the summer(let's not forget who signs the cheques) is the reason Ross got sacked. He may be a rare Hibs manager who was sacked when most fans were happy to give him longer. Ron is clearly impatient for success but he may have set us back quite a bit by not looking at the mitigation for the run of poor form which of course included one of the best performances since we won the cup. One thing is for sure Ron will be the one who either gets the praise or the fallout from this decision. He hasn't really left anyone else to blame.

[Jones28]

I don't know if its structural or not, but yeah I think there is a disconnect between the club and the fans at the moment.

All the ***** about crypto-tokens and crap like that I could handle, because it benefited the club without doing anyone harm unless they bought the thing. But it's the ticket prices that are getting my goat at the moment, they're totally un justifiable. I find it completely tone deaf that they come out with this gold/silver/bronze pish and then deicide on a base level price of £28 or whatever it is for a seagull-**** encrusted seat right in the corner of the stadium. We seem to have dropped our "Greenest Club" stuff, and there's not been much in the way of community focus stuff that I've seen, albeit I don't have any social media I might have missed a few things. It even seems that we're ballsing up the catering side of things and can't recruit enough people to make it work on any sort of scale that makes it worth-while.

It feels like the announcements coming out of the club are all negative: we tried to get more tickets but didn't; we tried to appeal red cards but were unsuccessful; buy this ****; buy that ****.

Then we come on to the Jack Ross stuff, and it feels rushed, not well thought through with no replacement in place despite there being decent candidates out of work at he moment.

It isn't much fun being Hibby at the moment, despite the cup final rapidly approaching.

[greenlex]

Even the hardest teams lose now and again!!

We’re soft. Have been for ages.
Completely missed my point. The best two teams in the country are not hard. They play football.

[son of haggart]

Asides of the merits/demerits of sacking Ross and Potter we seem to be in a cycle of no more than two years with someone as Head Coach. Pretty much everyone gets something out of the squad inititally and then it all goes wrong (either faster eg Butcher or slower eg Ross) until such time as the club has to act by starting out over again.

The point of the Director of Football structure is as I understand it to provide a stable structure for player and coaching development. It's supposed to provide a conveyor belt of talent (both home grown and purchased) not dependent on who's coach at anyone time. It's also supposed to mean there's a long term culture and style developed so whoever comes in becomes the 'guardian' of it rather than its creator.

Successful clubs historically have usually either had a single manager/coach long term at the top (Fergie/Wenger/Smith/Stein etc) or a coaching 'pool' - think Liverpool 70s/80s where they had a series of home grown coaches successfully promoted from within.

None of that's worked at Hibs over the last 20 years where for most of the period we have tried to establish a 'Hibs way' of doing things and where the behind the scenes structures and culture are more important than who is head coach at any one time.

What's gone wrong?


Interesting post .

But I think that structures can only take you so far. I think an asset for Hibs for a number of years was the Farmer/Petrie relationship. It didn't bring you great success but it brought a measure of financial stability and a quite successful approach to bringing in and selling players (and managers - I suspect Petrie made a profit on them too). However I think on the downside there was a correlated reluctance at times to take risks when the bigger prizes might have been achievable (particularly 2006-7 when you had a great crop of young players but they went too soon).

Gordon may be more a speculate to accumulate man which might (or might not) bring you more success but also carries greater risk. I think the type of managerial appointment will give a clue to his thinking and also be pivotal for your next couple of seasons. Someone mentioned in one of the threads the MK Dons manager - that seems a likely scenario in which case it would be a structural change insofar as there would be a clearer ambition to bring in young players and develop them. If you're lucky that would also bring success. The opposite approach would be someone who wants a greater deal of control. more established players/ steady squad and where the owner and DOF are more hands off - McInnes say. I think that's less likely.

By the way I hadn't realised your old man was still on the go - give him my regards. I hope he goes to the final with you - shouldn't miss the chance to see that. Over 40 years ago I sang 'A Gordon for me' with him at a drunken post election party, but about Nat, not Ron Gordon

[Jamesie]

I don't know if its structural or not, but yeah I think there is a disconnect between the club and the fans at the moment.


I’ve been feeling like that recently too. We are a long way from the connect and goodwill that followed the 2016 Cup win. Last Sunday I was in Sainsburys and somebody with a Hibs face mask on had a group of excited youngsters asking him about the Cup Final etc. I genuinely had no idea who this guy was, and I’m a season ticket holder.

There are some similarities between Heckingbottom and Ross in that both had spectacularly good runs that effectively had handbrake turns into spectacularly bad runs. No in between or month or two of indifferent win-draw-loss cycles - it was a complete 360 for each manager. I can’t work out why.

[007]

No, but he might have done if he hadn't had a brainfart at Tynie.

That was the players fault (supposedly) by not wearing the right boots and slipping all over the place.

[FilipinoHibs]

This means absolutely nothing. If a manager had hibs coming second or third in the league every season I'd be absolutely delighted.

I find chat about "winning mentality" so tiresome, it doesn't mean anything and is just an easy thing to come out with when things aren't going well.

Think Alex Neil summed us up well on Sports sound last Wednesday . Unfortunately, it looks as if wants another English gig.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/no-intensity-what-alex-neil-thinks-about-hibs-3489727

[Liberal Hibby]

Interesting post .

But I think that structures can only take you so far. I think an asset for Hibs for a number of years was the Farmer/Petrie relationship. It didn't bring you great success but it brought a measure of financial stability and a quite successful approach to bringing in and selling players (and managers - I suspect Petrie made a profit on them too). However I think on the downside there was a correlated reluctance at times to take risks when the bigger prizes might have been achievable (particularly 2006-7 when you had a great crop of young players but they went too soon).

Gordon may be more a speculate to accumulate man which might (or might not) bring you more success but also carries greater risk. I think the type of managerial appointment will give a clue to his thinking and also be pivotal for your next couple of seasons. Someone mentioned in one of the threads the MK Dons manager - that seems a likely scenario in which case it would be a structural change insofar as there would be a clearer ambition to bring in young players and develop them. If you're lucky that would also bring success. The opposite approach would be someone who wants a greater deal of control. more established players/ steady squad and where the owner and DOF are more hands off - McInnes say. I think that's less likely.

By the way I hadn't realised your old man was still on the go - give him my regards. I hope he goes to the final with you - shouldn't miss the chance to see that. Over 40 years ago I sang 'A Gordon for me' with him at a drunken post election party, but about Nat, not Ron Gordon

Thanks Scott - I'll mention you to him next time I see him (he's not going to the final - but was there on 21.5.16 - and I suspect with new covid restrictions he may not be the only one not going...).

I guess for all clubs it's a dilema between stability and dynamism and I certainly thought under Leann Dempster we'd got a balance albeit with one duff managerial appointment (Heckingbottom). But as you say who comes in says a lot about the style and culture under Gordon.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can't believe that nobody has pointed out the obvious....











The seats all face the wrong way. 😁

[ahibby]

I don't know if its structural or not, but yeah I think there is a disconnect between the club and the fans at the moment.

All the ***** about crypto-tokens and crap like that I could handle, because it benefited the club without doing anyone harm unless they bought the thing. But it's the ticket prices that are getting my goat at the moment, they're totally un justifiable. I find it completely tone deaf that they come out with this gold/silver/bronze pish and then deicide on a base level price of £28 or whatever it is for a seagull-**** encrusted seat right in the corner of the stadium. We seem to have dropped our "Greenest Club" stuff, and there's not been much in the way of community focus stuff that I've seen, albeit I don't have any social media I might have missed a few things. It even seems that we're ballsing up the catering side of things and can't recruit enough people to make it work on any sort of scale that makes it worth-while.

It feels like the announcements coming out of the club are all negative: we tried to get more tickets but didn't; we tried to appeal red cards but were unsuccessful; buy this ****; buy that ****.

Then we come on to the Jack Ross stuff, and it feels rushed, not well thought through with no replacement in place despite there being decent candidates out of work at he moment.

It isn't much fun being Hibby at the moment, despite the cup final rapidly approaching.

And despite all of that about 4000 of our fans not only go for that but also supply the club with a regular stream of cash via HSL. If you want a decent Army, NHS, Social Security etc etc you have to pay your tax even if you dont like the government. If you want the club to bring in and keep good players we have to handover the cash needed if we can afford it.

[hibsitis]

I can help you with that - nothing.

Not quite. Absolutely nothing.

[LeithMike]

Its not necessarily about a nasty streak but Lennon certainly instilled some kind of confidence in the players. Even the best Hibs teams I have seen have never gone to Ibrox and Parkhead and taken the game to Rangers and Celtic believing we could dominate the game. We did that under Lennon.

Yes, Lennon couldn't cope when the quality of player diminished but for a while he had us playing like the best team in Scotland with no fear. You can't just dismiss that.

Never have I seen that under any other Hibs manager. Doesn't mean I would want him back but its wrong to say that Lennon had no qualities.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[hibbydog]

14 managers in the last 20 years.

It’s so damn clear that constantly changing managers every year or two makes no difference.

This a fact that Can’t be argued against. There’s obvious evidence.

If we want to improve the team we should change the budget, not the manager. That means sustainable investment in the playing squad. Which means either find a generous benefactor or generate new revenue from somewhere.

Until this changes, nothing will improve other than the odd season here and there

[loanheadhibby]

I don't know if its structural or not, but yeah I think there is a disconnect between the club and the fans at the moment.

All the ***** about crypto-tokens and crap like that I could handle, because it benefited the club without doing anyone harm unless they bought the thing. But it's the ticket prices that are getting my goat at the moment, they're totally un justifiable. I find it completely tone deaf that they come out with this gold/silver/bronze pish and then deicide on a base level price of £28 or whatever it is for a seagull-**** encrusted seat right in the corner of the stadium. We seem to have dropped our "Greenest Club" stuff, and there's not been much in the way of community focus stuff that I've seen, albeit I don't have any social media I might have missed a few things. It even seems that we're ballsing up the catering side of things and can't recruit enough people to make it work on any sort of scale that makes it worth-while.

It feels like the announcements coming out of the club are all negative: we tried to get more tickets but didn't; we tried to appeal red cards but were unsuccessful; buy this ****; buy that ****.

Then we come on to the Jack Ross stuff, and it feels rushed, not well thought through with no replacement in place despite there being decent candidates out of work at he moment.

It isn't much fun being Hibby at the moment, despite the cup final rapidly approaching.

An interesting post with a lot I agree with.

A bug bear of mine is also all these partnerships that never seem to bring us as a fan base any benefits. Hopefully long term we will see the benefits to the club but it would be good if the club put a bit more focus on the actual benefits.

It’s all very well Ron getting involved in the league steering group but not at the expense of Hibs. I wonder if he’s taken his eye of the ball at Easter Road.

[Helensburghhibs]

Not sure how many people will agree but I really admired leann for what she done on the non football side. The way she sold our club perception, community projects amd communications I feel have been lost. Obviously not as important as the product on the park but important never the less

[greenlex]

Its not necessarily about a nasty streak but Lennon certainly instilled some kind of confidence in the players. Even the best Hibs teams I have seen have never gone to Ibrox and Parkhead and taken the game to Rangers and Celtic believing we could dominate the game. We did that under Lennon.

Yes, Lennon couldn't cope when the quality of player diminished but for a while he had us playing like the best team in Scotland with no fear. You can't just dismiss that.

Never have I seen that under any other Hibs manager. Doesn't mean I would want him back but its wrong to say that Lennon had no qualities.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Collins’team dominated at Ibrox. I’d argue we did it under Ross until Porto got sent off. We were certainly very comfortable

[wookie70]

Not sure how many people will agree but I really admired leann for what she done on the non football side. The way she sold our club perception, community projects amd communications I feel have been lost. Obviously not as important as the product on the park but important never the less

Totally agree. I liked that vision and everything LD did felt joined up and long lasting. I don't get that feeling anymore. It seems all about the next buck now and I know there is talk about the Seville model etc but I don't feel invested in any vision Ron has. LD I thought walked the talk. All talking so for from Ron imo but it is early days

[truehibernian]

It's the football, plain and simple...........over the last 5 years we have been really blessed with SJM, Dylan (in his prime), Jason, Holt (character), Kamberi (when interested), Barker, Simon Murray (desire), Marvin (nails), Stokesy and even James Keatings (wee fighter).

Now...........it's slooooooooooooooooooow, languid, side to side, no creativity in midfield, and totally reliant on Boyle having a stormer.

It's the football and style of play - simple as that. Too many brought in who are 'run of the mill' yet lauded as 'the next big thing'.

[truehibernian]

It's the football, plain and simple...........over the last 5 years we have been really blessed with SJM, Dylan (in his prime), Jason, Holt (character), Kamberi (when interested), Barker, Simon Murray (desire), Marvin (nails), Stokesy and even James Keatings (wee fighter).

Now...........it's slooooooooooooooooooow, languid, side to side, no creativity in midfield, and totally reliant on Boyle having a stormer.

It's the football and style of play - simple as that. Too many brought in who are 'run of the mill' yet lauded as 'the next big thing'.

And all of the above, regardless of opinion, have character about them.

[chrisski33]

Our mentality of accepting 2nd or 3rd best that is the problem. Lennon addressed for a while, last to really understand is was Eddie Turnbull.

Would be great if we ever finished 2nd in the league and if your honest most fans would be chuffed if we did. Sadly we have never been close to finishing 2nd

[CapitalGreen]

Not sure how many people will agree but I really admired leann for what she done on the non football side. The way she sold our club perception, community projects amd communications I feel have been lost. Obviously not as important as the product on the park but important never the less

She failed to sell our club to potential sponsors 2 seasons on the bounce which left a significant hole in our budget resulting in an inferior product on the pitch.

[Helensburghhibs]

She failed to sell our club to potential sponsors 2 seasons on the bounce which left a significant hole in our budget resulting in an inferior product on the pitch.

Yeah agree with this

[Jones28]

And despite all of that about 4000 of our fans not only go for that but also supply the club with a regular stream of cash via HSL. If you want a decent Army, NHS, Social Security etc etc you have to pay your tax even if you dont like the government. If you want the club to bring in and keep good players we have to handover the cash needed if we can afford it.

There’s a limit to anyone’s patience and tolerance for that though. Arbitrary price increases without any real material change in what you see on the park is not going to help and Will in fact hinder the club. There will be fewer walk ups, fewer impulse fans who decide on the day to go to games, and therefor fewer season tickets. The wave of goodwill following the cup final has well and truly disappeared with this season. And it’s a football club, not any of the things you cite. If households are squeezed, what comes first? Football or bills and taxes?