Wrong decision

[Greenio]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at its finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.

[Boominator]

Shortermism completely. And quite classless.
Disappointing all round from Hibs.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Well, I think it was the wrong decision, but it's one we just have to live with - that's life. The king is dead, long live the king!

I know football managers have a great life and get well paid, but their fate really is so much in the hands of others. I wonder if Jack Ross would still be there if our star striker had scored that penalty? Or if our star defender hadn't given away a penalty against Rangers?

Let's hope we all have a good day out at Hampden.

[CentreLine]

The biggest issue here is the supporters, (wrong description, some people need to look up the definition of support) followers of the club who seem to think a manger needs changed as often as their underpants. Perhaps more often. But when that noise started to gather pace then it was inevitable. All the negativity spread about the club, the players, the stadium, the board and, of course, the manager, made it inevitable and I believe it is harming the club.
I firmly believe we have made a mistake but it’s done now and supporters of the club simply need to move on.

[Since452]

Timing wrong and maybe the wrong decision all together but it's done. No going back now. 3 points tomorrow will help. No point looking back.

[HH81]

Well, I think it was the wrong decision, but it's one we just have to live with - that's life. The king is dead, long live the king!

I know football managers have a great life and get well paid, but their fate really is so much in the hands of others. I wonder if Jack Ross would still be there if our star striker had scored that penalty? Or if our star defender hadn't given away a penalty against Rangers?

Let's hope we all have a good day out at Hampden.

Really taken this to heart.

You do make some good points but most managers in football leave with one win in nine. It has been like that for a long time now.

There was no signs of improvement in terms of winning games which is what football is about.
On reflection we do not know what goes on behind the closed doors. Maybe not backing Porto at Ibrox has caused some players to down tools or just some have lost faith in the tactics.

The other night was unacceptable as was the week before. The Motherwell game was fairly even and we missed chances. We didn't get the win.

Ross will get another club and hibs will move on.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Really taken this to heart.

You do make some good points but most managers in football leave with one win in nine. It has been like that for a long time now.

There was no signs of improvement in terms of winning games which is what football is about.
On reflection we do not know what goes on behind the closed doors. Maybe not backing Porto at Ibrox has caused some players to down tools or just some have lost faith in the tactics.

The other night was unacceptable as was the week before. The Motherwell game was fairly even and we missed chances. We didn't get the win.

Ross will get another club and hibs will move on.

Yep - and for us, it's just a hobby at the end of the day.

[madhatter]

We will actually never know. We won't get to witness how both realities would play out.

If we go further down and things get worse I know people will claim its because we got rid of Jack Ross but we simply don't know that. He could stay and we could have a bust up at the training centre, we could get thumped by Celtic 6-0, confidence could be shot, attendances could plummet even more and club could be woefully unprepared for January window as they have no faith in the manager. He could also miraculously have turned it around a bit and won us the cup.

In truth though, if Jack Ross had said he might not be in charge tomorrow to the players after the Livi match...it seems he knew it was coming. Also, his "2 years" comments in his last interview made it look like he could see the decline in the squad, probably couldn't believe how it managed to get to the stage where he couldn't get a tune out of the players and evidently didn't know how to turn it round. Momentum was totally against him. He came across as being lost for ideas and a little shell-shocked after Livi. Very difficult position to turn it round from there.

If club had lost faith in Jack Ross, why would the owner give him another transfer window to potentially spend some of his money?

I get grief for being negative on here but genuinely I cannot understand why club get grief for sacking a manager after a 2 year spell. He needs more time is an utter fallacy. People talking of "he needs 4-5 years"...if we get a really successful manager he would walk for money within 3 years. Sad but Hibs are no different to any club in world football in that regard.

Maybe Leicester shouldn't have sacked Ranieri? Might have won the league again had they just waited longer for it to turn? He had won it before so had plenty credit and clearly knew his stuff, likely relegation hinted against that though.

[May21/05/16]

It's the wrong decision


Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

The biggest issue here is the supporters, (wrong description, some people need to look up the definition of support) followers of the club who seem to think a manger needs changed as often as their underpants. Perhaps more often. But when that noise started to gather pace then it was inevitable. All the negativity spread about the club, the players, the stadium, the board and, of course, the manager, made it inevitable and I believe it is harming the club.
I firmly believe we have made a mistake but it’s done now and supporters of the club simply need to move on.

Yes, it is the supporters fault...

Empty seats in the stadium sent negative vibes to the players and manager. Hang on, they played better in an empty stadium.

Honestly terrible patter to put this on fans. Fairly certain 2 years is longer than the average stay of a manager in European football. Certainly this 5-6year empire-building situation people have in their heads just doesn't happen at our level. If Jack Ross had another successful season this year he, almost without doubt, would have left to a club paying him more money

Anyone changing their underpants every 2 years needs a good clean.

[judas]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at it's finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.

I agree. Actually, JR isn’t just our most successful manager of the decade, his win ratio is the 6th best in our history - 5th if we are removing Stubbs (who played all his games in the championship).

We’ve sacked him at the first sign of trouble.

We may regret this.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Time will tell whether the decision proves good or bad. The board is paid to take such decisions. The fact is 4 points from 27 would put any SPL manager under pressure, not just at Hibs. Sacking a manager always presents a dilemma in relation to timing. Some will always think it's happened to soon; others that it came too late. Personally, I thought he would have gotten the two league games before the final, but we are talking fine margins here: he was on the brink. Given form and performances, Ross can't have any complaints. This isn't a Spurs type situation, whereby a manger was sacked after three months in the job. We are sinking like a stone in the league; how long should the board allow it to continue?

[madhatter]

How have people with no knowledge of what happened managed to acquire concrete hindsight the day after?

We will never know if this is the right or wrong decision. It's impossible to know, we don't get to witness both outcomes so cannot compare.

[GlasgowHibs]

I feel a bit let down by the decision. I would have liked to have seen Jack Ross in charge up to the final at least. But, after a run of rank results, semi final excepted, the board had to be seen to be in control. In football parlance, they were given a decision to make.

[Mikey_1875]

The biggest issue here is the supporters, (wrong description, some people need to look up the definition of support) followers of the club who seem to think a manger needs changed as often as their underpants. Perhaps more often. But when that noise started to gather pace then it was inevitable. All the negativity spread about the club, the players, the stadium, the board and, of course, the manager, made it inevitable and I believe it is harming the club.
I firmly believe we have made a mistake but it’s done now and supporters of the club simply need to move on.

I wouldn’t agree that the supporters are the biggest issue here. Fans are naturally fickle and there is going to be a high level disgruntlement at any club with the league run that we have currently been on.

I expect the board and manager to take into consideration fans thoughts but be professional enough to take the emotion out of it and make a correct decision. If Ron/Ben were spooked into a rash decision by some boos at full time then it says a lot more about them than the supporters who are forking out their hard earned every week to watch a shocking display like Wednesday.

[theonlywayisup]

I've kept away from this forum since the Livi games as I know how the conversations would go.

It's reassuring to see the first post has the comments it has, as I'm actually quite saddened by the events of the last few days. That said, four points out of 27 is always going to be a problem for any manager. But the reason that I'm sad and disappointed is that Jack Ross is only partly to blame for where we are today.

It's been said over and over again that the reason for our poor performance this season is down to the poor summer recruitment. Even before Doidge was injured it was clear to all that we needed a decent striker - all we got a very unfit Scott from Hull, all done at the last minute. It was clear to many that we need reinforcements in defence - all we got was a woefully inadequate Woods from Boro, all done at the last minute. It was clear to many that we needed a bit more creativity in midfield - all we got was a Championship player who won't join us until January. It's clear that we're playing the same players every week because there are no other alternatives and those players are evidently struggling with their fitness. All this talk about a lack of a high intensity game, creativity, plan B etc are all linked to the lack of adequate resources.

I look at other teams in the league and they appear to have much better depths to their squads. I look at Celtic last night and their back-up 11 was full of youth and experienced players, all playing at high intensity. What do we have - probably a core of 13/14 players that we can trust and that's it?

Sacking Jack Ross and the appointment of a club legend in SDG is only going to paper over the cracks. The recruitment team need to get their act together otherwise I can only see this heading in one direction.

[Winston Ingram]

Genuinely baffled by this short-termism nonsense.

2 league wins since August. Both v St Johnstone. One via a dodgy pen and the other v 10 men. We have been rotten for 4 months and getting worse.

JR's tactics have been getting more baffling and erratic every week culminating in the brainfart decision to play 4-2-2-2 in the second half v Livi which completely cut the legs off any chance of coming back, just cos he saw Ralf Rangnick use it on the telly on Sunday.

Just cos he managed to pull out 1 good performance v Sevco doesn't excuse this. Celtic absolutely destroyed us at ER and I've no doubt they'd have done it again at Hampden if he'd stayed in charge.

There is absolutely no logical reason for him to stay on and well done to BK and RG for being strong enough to take action.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Should have been given the cup final that he got us to.

id have given him to the winter break.

[JimBHibees]

Genuinely baffled by this short-termism nonsense.

2 league wins since August. Both v St Johnstone. One via a dodgy pen and the other v 10 men. We have been rotten for 4 months and getting worse.

JR's tactics have been getting more baffling and erratic every week culminating in the brainfart decision to play 4-2-2-2 in the second half v Livi which completely cut the legs off any chance of coming back, just cos he saw Ralf Rangnick use it on the telly on Sunday.

Just cos he managed to pull out 1 good performance v Sevco doesn't excuse this. Celtic absolutely destroyed us at ER and I've no doubt they'd have done it again at Hampden if he'd stayed in charge.

There is absolutely no logical reason for him to stay on and well done to BK and RG for being strong enough to take action.

They need to get someone in soon for it not to look like a knee jerk decision. Hopefully they have someone lined up but if true Ross was summarily sacked at Livingston stadium that seems very ooor imo. Time for decision makers to step up.

[mjhibby]

Really taken this to heart.

You do make some good points but most managers in football leave with one win in nine. It has been like that for a long time now.

There was no signs of improvement in terms of winning games which is what football is about.
On reflection we do not know what goes on behind the closed doors. Maybe not backing Porto at Ibrox has caused some players to down tools or just some have lost faith in the tactics.

The other night was unacceptable as was the week before. The Motherwell game was fairly even and we missed chances. We didn't get the win.

Ross will get another club and hibs will move on.

Well said. The hibs support don't help themselves sometimes I have to admit though and getting right behind the team doesn't happen very often. We've come to expect high place finishes. Maybe complacency set in amongst the support. I hope we get right behind Neil or whoever is the new manager and just be back in love with hibs which the vast majority will always be.

[Hermit Crab]

Wrong decision my erchie. We have lost to 2 teams in the bottom 4 recently. We play the other half of the bottom 4 in the next 5 days. The hibs we know should have picked up 6 points from Ross county and Livingston away. Instead we picked up an embarrassing zero points. Only Livingstons 2nd home win in the league this season.

3 bottled games at Hampden blew the chance of trophies for us, the same tactics v st Johnstone both times as well. The same tactics against rangers recently. Far too predictable, give the ball to Boyle and get him to run with it. Teams double up on him now, he was ineffective on Wednesday because of this. We are so far behind hearts and third place we need binoculars to see them.

Jack Ross couldn’t change a game in our favour. His tactics were poor. His subs were questionable and often far too late in a game to have any effect. Terrible recruitment in the summer window too. Overloaded with midfielders, not very good ones at that - see Drey Wright and Gogic. We were sleep walking towards relegation with him in charge. Definitely not the wrong decision.

[lord bunberry]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at it's finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.
I completely agree with everything you said here. What can’t be denied even by the people that wanted him sacked is that there hasn’t been a manager being sacked that’s caused this much debate. Other than Sauzee every dismissal has been universally agreed with and accepted. This feels panicked and badly timed, it should have been done just before the winter break with a new manager lined up.

[Hermit Crab]

Well said. The hibs support don't help themselves sometimes I have to admit though and getting right behind the team doesn't happen very often. We've come to expect high place finishes. Maybe complacency set in amongst the support. I hope we get right behind Neil or whoever is the new manager and just be back in love with hibs which the vast majority will always be.

Nothing to do with complacency. We are a top 4 team and should be up there every single season competing for Europe and trophies. The money they charge the fans does not compare to what we get from the team in return. Substandard rubbish!! I pay £420 a season and I want a winning team on the park for that. Not a passive one like what JR built with our hard earned.

[madhatter]

Well said. The hibs support don't help themselves sometimes I have to admit though and getting right behind the team doesn't happen very often. We've come to expect high place finishes. Maybe complacency set in amongst the support. I hope we get right behind Neil or whoever is the new manager and just be back in love with hibs which the vast majority will always be.

Hibs sacked Jack Ross because Hibs results have been almost entirely brutal for months. Don't understand what it's got to do with our fanbase. What we talking about here? Should people pay and turn up to watch a game of football they are expecting their team to lose and a game that they genuinely don't enjoy just so we can keep managers for a longer period of time.

Do people genuinely believe Ron Gordon has sacked Jack Ross solely due to fans not turning up? People puzzled by the timing...its easy to work out. Ron Gordon will likely have to go into his wallet to fix this squad, we obviously didn't have faith in Mathie to recruit and I think faith and belief in Jack Ross to choose and get the best out of the players had plummeted. Ron Gordon and the club will take the financial hit from sacking Jack Ross after having recently giving a contract extension. This is more calculated than people make out and certainly isn't solely because fans had had enough.

[roo62]

Wrong decision my erchie. We have lost to 2 teams in the bottom 4 recently. We play the other half of the bottom 4 in the next 5 days. The hibs we know should have picked up 6 points from Ross county and Livingston away. Instead we picked up an embarrassing zero points. Only Livingstons 2nd home win in the league this season.

3 bottled games at Hampden blew the chance of trophies for us, the same tactics v st Johnstone both times as well. The same tactics against rangers recently. Far too predictable, give the ball to Boyle and get him to run with it. Teams double up on him now, he was ineffective on Wednesday because of this. We are so far behind hearts and third place we need binoculars to see them.

Jack Ross couldn’t change a game in our favour. His tactics were poor. His subs were questionable and often far too late in a game to have any effect. Terrible recruitment in the summer window too. Overloaded with midfielders, not very good ones at that - see Drey Wright and Gogic. We were sleep walking towards relegation with him in charge. Definitely not the wrong decision.
Pretty much sums it for me Hermit.I am looking forward short term again to get Eddie May's input again...seemed to change it around last time and got a couple of results before the next manager came in.Him and Sir David might just get us a Cup win and bring some much needed Christmas cheer. But no celebratory Christmas party afterwards is allowed.Works for me until the new manager is appointed.

[FilipinoHibs]

Too many costly failures this season; no European conference league; falling crowds; and lying 7th. Big loss of money in a planed budget. RG will probably have to fill the hole and will impact further recruitment in January.

[Coco Bryce]

100% Correct Decision

Football is a business. Jack Ross was costing the business and was quite rightly relieved of his duties.

As would happen in any other business.

[Callum_62]

Really taken this to heart.

You do make some good points but most managers in football leave with one win in nine. It has been like that for a long time now.

There was no signs of improvement in terms of winning games which is what football is about.
On reflection we do not know what goes on behind the closed doors. Maybe not backing Porto at Ibrox has caused some players to down tools or just some have lost faith in the tactics.

The other night was unacceptable as was the week before. The Motherwell game was fairly even and we missed chances. We didn't get the win.

Ross will get another club and hibs will move on.Our short term form had definately improved

2 wins and a Draw in what 5 games?

Surely the right or wrong decision hinges on who we get in now though

Give it to sdg and I'd instantly think that wasn't wise

Get someone exciting in and it may turn out to be better

We simply can't tell at the moment

Do I think Jack Ross is the absolute best manager we could get - no

Do I think he done an above average job for us - yes

Did he deserves to go - possibly. I can see both sides of it although I probably rather we didn't sack him

Could we end up in a much worse position - absolutely

Its the excitement of the unknown in football that keeps us interested I suppose

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[mjhibby]

Hibs sacked Jack Ross because Hibs results have been almost entirely brutal for months. Don't understand what it's got to do with our fanbase. What we talking about here? Should people pay and turn up to watch a game of football they are expecting their team to lose and a game that they genuinely don't enjoy just so we can keep managers for a longer period of time.

Do people genuinely believe Ron Gordon has sacked Jack Ross solely due to fans not turning up? People puzzled by the timing...its easy to work out. Ron Gordon will likely have to go into his wallet to fix this squad, we obviously didn't have faith in Mathie to recruit and I think faith and belief in Jack Ross to choose and get the best out of the players had plummeted. Ron Gordon and the club will take the financial hit from sacking Jack Ross after having recently giving a contract extension. This is more calculated than people make out and certainly isn't solely because fans had had enough.

Don't think we are in disagreement just pointing out that despite Ross and his faults I think the hibs support can help by getting right behind the team. We did for eddie May the last time so hopefully the guys get right behind the team till the new man arrives. Everybody has a right to complain when things are obviously poor on the pitch and Ross Ross alluded to that in his last interview.
Ggtth.

[hibsbollah]

100% Correct Decision

Football is a business. Jack Ross was costing the business and was quite rightly relieved of his duties.

As would happen in any other business.

Every place I’ve ever worked has contained useless fossils that cost the business money and never get sacked, so the comparison doesn’t work for me.

[FilipinoHibs]

Every place I’ve ever worked has contained useless fossils that cost the business money and never get sacked, so the comparison doesn’t work for me.

Not someone fundamentally driving revenue though. Remember to Ron is a successful US business person. They take action to improve the bottom line much more quickly there.

[chrisski33]

The biggest issue here is the supporters, (wrong description, some people need to look up the definition of support) followers of the club who seem to think a manger needs changed as often as their underpants. Perhaps more often. But when that noise started to gather pace then it was inevitable. All the negativity spread about the club, the players, the stadium, the board and, of course, the manager, made it inevitable and I believe it is harming the club.
I firmly believe we have made a mistake but it’s done now and supporters of the club simply need to move on.

Clearly some our so called supporters are happy with eye bleeding football, losing to teams we shouldnt be and too many draws. Ross's time was up and he knew it after the livi game.

[Heisenberg]

I liked Jack Ross but the run of results he was on was indefensible in the end. It’s not like we were playing the best in the league in the last couple of games either, any win in those probably gets him through to the final and maybe further. We didn’t look like winning either.

[allezsauzee]

I don't have the foresight to know whether this will prove to be the right or wrong decision. I think the timing is likely to proven to be poor if we do not have someone else lined up. We could be looking at 7 games including a cup final with a caretaker management team in place if that's the case.

I don't think Jack Ross was great but then he is far from the worst manager we've had. He is probably as good a manager as you'd expect to have at a mid table club. I appreciate that most supporters (including myself) have higher ambitions for the club than this but I think it's unlikely to happen until we invest properly in the playing squad.

We have needed to refresh and strengthen the defence for a few years now and for some reason it's just not happened. McGregor, Hanlon and Stevenson are legends but their time has passed. Doidge's injury has laid bare just how thin in numbers we are up front. We have neat and tidy defenders but we've had no-one to take a grip of a game since SJM left. For there to be any chance of this being proven to be the right decision, the new manager needs to be allowed to seriously strengthen the squad. Macey and Nesbit have been very good signings and it's great that we've got Boyle on a longer contract but it's just not enough I'm afraid.

[Coco Bryce]

Every place I’ve ever worked has contained useless fossils that cost the business money and never get sacked, so the comparison doesn’t work for me.

So have I come to think about it :greengrin

I would be very surprised it there are any 'useless fossils' at any football club though.

[Tyler Durden]

Wrong decision my erchie. We have lost to 2 teams in the bottom 4 recently. We play the other half of the bottom 4 in the next 5 days. The hibs we know should have picked up 6 points from Ross county and Livingston away. Instead we picked up an embarrassing zero points. Only Livingstons 2nd home win in the league this season.

3 bottled games at Hampden blew the chance of trophies for us, the same tactics v st Johnstone both times as well. The same tactics against rangers recently. Far too predictable, give the ball to Boyle and get him to run with it. Teams double up on him now, he was ineffective on Wednesday because of this. We are so far behind hearts and third place we need binoculars to see them.

Jack Ross couldn’t change a game in our favour. His tactics were poor. His subs were questionable and often far too late in a game to have any effect. Terrible recruitment in the summer window too. Overloaded with midfielders, not very good ones at that - see Drey Wright and Gogic. We were sleep walking towards relegation with him in charge. Definitely not the wrong decision.

We didn't play the same tactics vs St Johnstone twice. We played 3-4-3 in the semi and 4-4-2 in the final. Same end result of course.

I agree re Gogic and Wright though and his signings. He's brought in those 2 plus Dan Mackay, James Scott. Whoever you blame for those signings, Jack Ross has ultimately not wanted to use them. He's not made them any better and for the first 2, seems to have destroyed any confidence they had to start with. Then we have Magennis and Murphy who are always injured.

[Dublin07]

Some of what you say is valid but fans should not be expected to have blind loyalty no matter the lack of quality on the pitch.
You are creating a fantasy where Jack Ross would turn it round and we would be flying high in a year. Let’s just go with your fantasy for a second it’s Christmas 2022 Jack Ross wins the league cup, the Scottish cup and hibs are joint top of the league. Rangers sack their manager and offer it to Jack Ross. Do you think he says no thanks the fans were all good guys a year ago so I will be loyal to the end.
I don’t think so he jumps in a second. That’s football and that’s why you get sacked when it goes wrong.

[James Stephen]

Nothing to do with complacency. We are a top 4 team and should be up there every single season competing for Europe and trophies. The money they charge the fans does not compare to what we get from the team in return. Substandard rubbish!! I pay £420 a season and I want a winning team on the park for that. Not a passive one like what JR built with our hard earned.

I think this is the nub of the issue.

You say you want a winning team, but for a big chunk of the Hibs support, that is deemed not enough. It has to be achieved playing a certain style of football - a style that Scottish fitba mitigates against - so much so that delivering a highly successful season like last was deemed 'not good enough' by many on here, and in the Hibs support.

The Hibs support have a set of expectations that are often unachievable. That inbuilt negativity does translate from the stands to team - numerous managers and players have spoken about that in the past.

It does seem a tad coincidental that Hibs have their most solid and consistent (if unspectacular) team since early 2000s, and its the season the fans are removed from the equation. Fans come back, team embarks on another long, very Hibs-esque death spiral of poor results, leading to loss of confidence, leading to poor performances, leading to long winless runs - the kind we have all seen at Easter Road far more often than anyone has seen the mythical winning by playing a certain style that too many seem to see as some sort of Hibernian birth rite.

Until Hibs fans value winning more anything else, Hibs will remain for the most part a fickle, mercurial, inconsistent and often soft as ***** team.

[BoomtownHibees]

Our short term form had definately improved

2 wins and a Draw in what 5 games?

3 defeats, 1 win, 1 draw in the last 5.

2 of the defeats against the bottom 2 at the time. The 1 win against the team now 2nd bottom who played with 10 men for more than half the game.

“Form had definitely improved”

[Danderhall Hibs]

3 defeats, 1 win, 1 draw in the last 5.

2 of the defeats against the bottom 2 at the time. The 1 win against the team now 2nd bottom who played with 10 men for more than half the game.

“Form had definitely improved”

If you exclude big cup games at Hampden you're correct. They used to be really important from a stats point of view though.

[BoomtownHibees]

If you exclude big cup games at Hampden you're correct. They used to be really important from a stats point of view though.

We played a big cup game at Hampden in the last 5 games? Must have missed that. Who were we playing? How did we get on?

[Rick Rude]

I'd have probably given him the next 3 games but don't disagree with sacking him now. I'm pretty surprised if anyone watched that game on Wednesday and didn't think it was a manager on his last legs.

[GRA]

I do think it was the wrong decision to sack him at that time of the season. I completely understand why he's been sacked. 4 points from 27 isn't good form in anyone's eyes and any manager in the league would be under pressure.

But I'd have given him until the end of the year. Deserved at least a shot at winning the cup given his cup record. OK we never won a cup, and some of the performances at Hampden were poor, but some were also good (Rangers and Dundee United semis this year) so I think he deserved a shot.

If we got hammered in that final and continued the poor run then nobody could have had any qualms about him being sacked come the turn of the year.

[lord bunberry]

I think this is the nub of the issue.

You say you want a winning team, but for a big chunk of the Hibs support, that is deemed not enough. It has to be achieved playing a certain style of football - a style that Scottish fitba mitigates against - so much so that delivering a highly successful season like last was deemed 'not good enough' by many on here, and in the Hibs support.

The Hibs support have a set of expectations that are often unachievable. That inbuilt negativity does translate from the stands to team - numerous managers and players have spoken about that in the past.

It does seem a tad coincidental that Hibs have their most solid and consistent (if unspectacular) team since early 2000s, and its the season the fans are removed from the equation. Fans come back, team embarks on another long, very Hibs-esque death spiral of poor results, leading to loss of confidence, leading to poor performances, leading to long winless runs - the kind we have all seen at Easter Road far more often than anyone has seen the mythical winning by playing a certain style that too many seem to see as some sort of Hibernian birth rite.

Until Hibs fans value winning more anything else, Hibs will remain for the most part a fickle, mercurial, inconsistent and often soft as ***** team.
That’s just wrong on so many levels. Can you explain how our home form was so much worse than our away form last season if it was down to the fact that there wasn’t any fans dragging the team down? Surely if it’s the fans that are having an adverse affect on the team, not having them there would have led to a massive upturn in our home form. It’s almost as if having fans in Easter Road helps and gives us an advantage. I’d also like to know who these numerous managers and players from the past are that have spoken about the fans negativity.

[The Harp Awakes]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at its finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.

As fans we can only view the decision from the outside looking in and consider whether it was the right one or not. Only those inside the club can make a complete judgement as to whether it was justified.

One thing is for sure, is that something has gone badly wrong at the club over the last 3 or 4 months. Team performances and results have been consistently poor, attendances have been plummeting and a large section of the fan base have become disillusioned.

Whether that's down to poor recruitment, poor decision making, mental fragility of the players or people not performing in their jobs, and indeed who's to blame, fans can only speculate.

Personally, I'm surprised at the timing of the decision a week before a Cup Final and a few weeks from the transfer window opening. Having said that if you asked me if I thought whether JR would have been capable of turning things around, my honest opinion would have been no. That's entirely based on performances of the players on the pitch who have clearly downed tools and lost their discipline.

[Danderhall Hibs]

We played a big cup game at Hampden in the last 5 games? Must have missed that. Who were we playing? How did we get on?

Oops. I prefer to work in even numbers when working with stats.

[Steve20]

If you've watched our games this season and think it's the wrong decision, you must have incredibly low expectations.

[Hibs90]

So it’s the fans and recruitments fault now?

Recruitment has a part to play but he should’ve got more out of the squad than he did. The squad as it is, is more than capable picking up. More than 1 win in 9.

It’s the correct decision. I support Hibs, and I want what is best for Hibs to produce results on the pitch. I don’t support a manager.

[BoomtownHibees]

Oops. I prefer to work in even numbers when working with stats.

Folk like to use whatever number makes their point sound better. I was told the other day that “3” was the number to use for recent form. I’m sure that poster may have a different number to use now

[Danderhall Hibs]

Folk like to use whatever number makes their point sound better. I was told the other day that “3” was the number to use for recent form. I’m sure that poster may have a different number to use now

Agreed - stats are there to be twisted. It's why the "only won 2 games since August" line is out; it sounds more dramatic than 1 win in 9.

[Unseen work]

My gut feeling is it’s the wrong decision and that Ross would have got us back up the league table, especially after the January window.

But in 9 games

4 / 27 points
5 goals scored
0 clean sheets.

Maybe Ron as a highly ambitious guy just thinks that’s not acceptable for where we want to go? Along with so many of the fans saying they don’t like him even when we were doing well, add in the attendances dropping.

Maybe Ron is a bit naive and inexperienced and has jumped the gun. Or it could turn out to be a fantastic decision as think we can and should be doing better.

Only time will tell.

But yeah, disappointed to lose Jack.

[allezsauzee]

So it’s the fans and recruitments fault now?

Recruitment has a part to play but he should’ve got more out of the squad than he did. The squad as it is, is more than capable picking up. More than 1 win in 9.

It’s the correct decision. I support Hibs, and I want what is best for Hibs to produce results on the pitch. I don’t support a manager.

The squad is about as good as the league position reflects.

[Callum_62]

The squad is about as good as the league position reflects.With our key injuries you arnt far off


Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Weegreenman]

Wrong decision 100%

We’ve all been here before.

We know what a new manager means.

He’ll want to change things. He’ll want his own players. Players will need to be moved on. Not always an easy thing to do. Keeping said players happy can be difficult.

Do we all remember the disaster that was Terry Butcher?

Poor decision from Ron in my opinion.

[B.H.F.C]

My gut feeling is it’s the wrong decision and that Ross would have got us back up the league table, especially after the January window.

But in 9 games

4 / 27 points
5 goals scored
0 clean sheets.

Maybe Ron as a highly ambitious guy just thinks that’s not acceptable for where we want to go? Along with so many of the fans saying they don’t like him even when we were doing well, add in the attendances dropping.

Maybe Ron is a bit naive and inexperienced and has jumped the gun. Or it could turn out to be a fantastic decision as think we can and should be doing better.

Only time will tell.

But yeah, disappointed to lose Jack.

I just don’t see what there was to suggest we’d have got back up the table if we continued to do the same thing. Six league games to play before we get as far as January which doesn’t offer any guarantees.

For all Ron is being talked about surely our CEO had a pretty significant part to play in the decision as well.

[B.H.F.C]

Wrong decision 100%

We’ve all been here before.

We know what a new manager means.

He’ll want to change things. He’ll want his own players. Players will need to be moved on. Not always an easy thing to do. Keeping said players happy can be difficult.

Do we all remember the disaster that was Terry Butcher?

Poor decision from Ron in my opinion.

What might have sticking with the existing manager meant? Can you honestly say you were seeing anything to suggest it was going to turn for him?

[Rumble de Thump]

Wrong decision 100%

We’ve all been here before.

We know what a new manager means.

He’ll want to change things. He’ll want his own players. Players will need to be moved on. Not always an easy thing to do. Keeping said players happy can be difficult.

Do we all remember the disaster that was Terry Butcher?

Poor decision from Ron in my opinion.

There are plenty players out of contract at the end of the season so bringing in new players won't be a problem.

[GreenCastle]

I think many fans have short term memories of last season (not sure if not watching games in the stadium being an issue but some of the results / performances last season really haven't been good enough for a club with our resources.

I wasn't in the Jack Ross must go now camp but I was feeling a lot of what was happening was so predictable - late goals - dropped points - losing to Livi etc. Fine margins at times but that's life.

Overall..

x2 Derby loses - one of those performances absolutely awful in the league at Easter Road - the other cost us a place in cup final against a Hearts team who had just resumed training.
Losing x3 out of 4 games to Aberdeen last season.
Aberdeen loss this season when they couldn't beat anyone - lost 1v0 (no shot on target for Hibs)
Dundee Utd beat us 3v0 at home this season.
Dundee Utd late goal (91+ mins) last season after leading 1v0
Losing late goals to draw against St Mirren and Dundee this season.
Celtic covid draw at Celtic Park - missing most of their team.
Celtic this season - 3v0 down after 30 mins going on 7. He also lost 8 goals in 3 games at Celtic Park - only scoring 1.
Last season Ross County - bottom of the league - 1 point from 6 - beat us 2v0 at Easter Road - played them x9 and lost x3 - won x3
This season Ross County - bottom of the league - lose 1v0 away
Livi - 3-0 loss going on more ( our worst ever home defeat to Livi) - Livi 2-0 loss and last nights 1-0 loss - played them 8 times and only won x3
Livi 1-1 end of last season at home - awful performance
Alloa performance in league cup last season
League Cup group stages performances were woeful last season - though we did get through.
St Johnstone semi final last season
St Johnstone final last season
Played St Johnstone x8 - won only x3 times - Lost x4 - Draw x1
Played Rangers x9 - only x1 win - and 1 draw

His best games as Hibs manager... in no order..

Hibs v Huns semi final win - 1st win against Old Firm as Hibs manager
Hibs win at Tynecastle - Boyle Derby against the worst Hearts team I've ever seen
Hibs win v Aberdeen - Easter Road - 3v0 and last game of last season - Doidge volley
Hibs win v Dundee Utd away - 3v0 - but that scoreline flattered us
Hibs win v Motherwell - 1st game of this season - great comeback - but only once he made subs - quite a common theme in games

If I have missed anything please feel free to add.

[SlickShoes]

I was in the keep Jack Ross camp, but after the display on Wednesday the club really only had two options, get rid immediately to try and get a bounce before the cup final, or stick with it. Its a toss of a coin, if we stick and don't win on Saturday against St Mirren which is likely considering the injuries, 2 red cards, and the way we have been playing, then they are under even more pressure to get rid of him.

Maybe he would have turned it around, but as a supporter of him, I have been saying that for the last 2 months, that the run can't continue, surely it will click in the next match and we will take our chances and cut out the defensive errors, but in every game bar the semi-final we shot ourselves in the foot almost every time. The players need to shoulder a lot of the blame, because they are actually capable of playing great but only they and the former manager will have any idea of why they can't perform like that when we really need it. The last 2 games being a prime example of this.

[Greenworld]

I agree. Actually, JR isn’t just our most successful manager of the decade, his win ratio is the 6th best in our history - 5th if we are removing Stubbs (who played all his games in the championship).

We’ve sacked him at the first sign of trouble.

We may regret this.It's slightly skewed by an outstanding season and this horrific run .

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[gbhibby]

Correct decision.
Last season we had the best chance ever of winning 3 trophies but performances were dire at Hampden. There always seemed to be no plan B. I have critical of the players fitness and conditioning as too many seem to be blowing out their backsides after 60 or 70 mins into the game. The team have become pedestrian and predictable. The performance in the semi was the best we have played under Jack Ross, but a lot of games

[Bobo]

Shortisim appears to have been the method of choice for the Hibenian Manager Merry-go-round for the past 20 years :

Franck Sauzee 15 games
Bobby Williamson 91 games
Tony Mowbray 108 games
John Collins 54 games
Mixu Paatelainen 62 games
John Hughes 54 games
Colin Calderwood 49 games
Pat Fenlon 87 games
Terry Butcher 27 games
Alan Stubbs 100
Neil Lennon 123
Jack Ross 96 games

Add in the fact that there has also been 10 interim managers during that time and it's plain to see a worrying pattern of poor managerial appointments. There has been a handful of decent appointments at best.

Let's see what the next one brings ��

[gbhibby]

Correct decision.
Last season we had the best chance ever of winning 3 trophies but performances were dire at Hampden. There always seemed to be no plan B. I have been critical of the players fitness and conditioning as too many seem to be blowing out their backsides after 60 or 70 mins into the game. The team have become pedestrian and predictable. The performance in the semi against The Rangers was the best we have played under Jack Ross, but a lot of games have been a difficult watch.
We move on.

[Since452]

This feels different to Lennon's horrendous run, or Hecky's poor run or the likes of Yogies and so on. Badly let down in the transfer window despite banging on and on publicly about needing more attacking and defensive options, horrendous injuries to arguably our best player this season in Magennis and Doidge leaving us with Nisbet who is never a loan striker and James bloody Scott. Porteous's sending off at Ibrox when we were cruising leaving us with aging Daz and Nathan Wood. The Covid outbreak then having to navigate multiple games in a short space of time with a threadbare squad. I feel really, really sorry for Jack Ross and now the disappointment of Wednesday is gone i really think he should have been given January. We let him down as a club in the summer and have not stood by him in my opinion. Like i said earlier though we move on.

[B.H.F.C]

It's slightly skewed by an outstanding season and this horrific run .

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Ole also got the bullet at Man Utd despite having the third best win rate in their history.

For JR, I think it’s just a case that he did well previously and now isn’t doing so well. I also don’t think it’s the first sign of trouble. There were plenty warning signs last year but he managed to turn it round . This time he hasn’t and there were very few signs to suggest he would.

[dchibs]

I've kept away from this forum since the Livi games as I know how the conversations would go.

It's reassuring to see the first post has the comments it has, as I'm actually quite saddened by the events of the last few days. That said, four points out of 27 is always going to be a problem for any manager. But the reason that I'm sad and disappointed is that Jack Ross is only partly to blame for where we are today.

It's been said over and over again that the reason for our poor performance this season is down to the poor summer recruitment. Even before Doidge was injured it was clear to all that we needed a decent striker - all we got a very unfit Scott from Hull, all done at the last minute. It was clear to many that we need reinforcements in defence - all we got was a woefully inadequate Woods from Boro, all done at the last minute. It was clear to many that we needed a bit more creativity in midfield - all we got was a Championship player who won't join us until January. It's clear that we're playing the same players every week because there are no other alternatives and those players are evidently struggling with their fitness. All this talk about a lack of a high intensity game, creativity, plan B etc are all linked to the lack of adequate resources.

I look at other teams in the league and they appear to have much better depths to their squads. I look at Celtic last night and their back-up 11 was full of youth and experienced players, all playing at high intensity. What do we have - probably a core of 13/14 players that we can trust and that's it?

Sacking Jack Ross and the appointment of a club legend in SDG is only going to paper over the cracks. The recruitment team need to get their act together otherwise I can only see this heading in one direction.

Spot on Iwas going to post this, the summer window was a disaster, I only hope they have targets lined up in January and the recruitment team is sorted.

[Weegreenman]

Correct decision.
Last season we had the best chance ever of winning 3 trophies but performances were dire at Hampden. There always seemed to be no plan B. I have critical of the players fitness and conditioning as too many seem to be blowing out their backsides after 60 or 70 mins into the game. The team have become pedestrian and predictable. The performance in the semi was the best we have played under Jack Ross, but a lot of games have been a difficult watch.
We move on.

There was a period we never got near Hampden.

None of us were “happy” at losing two cup finals but the fact we got there in the first place and finished third last season and add to that yet another cup final this season.,……your deluded if you think we’ll ever better this!

[GreenCastle]

Shortisim appears to have been the method of choice for the Hibenian Manager Merry-go-round for the past 20 years :

Franck Sauzee 15 games
Bobby Williamson 91 games
Tony Mowbray 108 games
John Collins 54 games
Mixu Paatelainen 62 games
John Hughes 54 games
Colin Calderwood 49 games
Pat Fenlon 87 games
Terry Butcher 27 games
Alan Stubbs 100
Neil Lennon 123
Jack Ross 96 games

Add in the fact that there has also been 10th interim managers during that time and it's plain to see a worrying pattern of poor managerial appointments. There has been a handful of decent appointments at best.

Let's see what the next one brings 🤔

It's not just Hibs - the shelf life of several managers is around 2 years - they either get sacked or headhunted for a bigger job.

Butchers 27 games felt like a life time.

Calderwood - Fenlon - Butcher almost made me fall out of love with football it was that bad.

I remember leaving games under Calderwood thinking can this get any worse then the week after we would be worse.

[stoneyburn hibs]

He deserved more time.
Getting us to another cup final and 3rd place last season imo credited him with a lot more time.

[Not In The Know]

I completely agree with everything you said here. What can’t be denied even by the people that wanted him sacked is that there hasn’t been a manager being sacked that’s caused this much debate. Other than Sauzee every dismissal has been universally agreed with and accepted. This feels panicked and badly timed, it should have been done just before the winter break with a new manager lined up.

Yesterday I was glad he was gone. Today I’m not to sure. You could easily argue both sides of the argument but I do have this nagging feeling for all Ross competency this is as good as it would get and we’d never really progress to a level that Gordon wants us to be. That would be a team that are consistently better and outplaying your livi’s and ross county’s.

interestingly Ross left Sunderland under similar circumstances. Some thought he was doing ok some thought he had to go. Maybe he’s just not got that footballing X factor.

[Bobo]

It's not just Hibs - the shelf life of several managers is around 2 years - they either get sacked or headhunted for a bigger job.

Butchers 27 games felt like a life time.

Calderwood - Fenlon - Butcher almost made me fall out of love with football it was that bad.

I remember leaving games under Calderwood thinking can this get any worse then the week after we would be worse.

I agree, that's how things work, just unfortunate that it tends to happen too often at Hibs. Too many duff appointments and we can't hang on to the decent ones.

[Since452]

However we feel about this (both arguments are valid) the only thing all of us want is Hibernian FC winning games of football. Sooner we get back to that the better and we wont be debating Jack Ross anymore.

[SlickShoes]

Shortisim appears to have been the method of choice for the Hibenian Manager Merry-go-round for the past 20 years :

Franck Sauzee 15 games
Bobby Williamson 91 games
Tony Mowbray 108 games
John Collins 54 games
Mixu Paatelainen 62 games
John Hughes 54 games
Colin Calderwood 49 games
Pat Fenlon 87 games
Terry Butcher 27 games
Alan Stubbs 100
Neil Lennon 123
Jack Ross 96 games

Add in the fact that there has also been 10th interim managers during that time and it's plain to see a worrying pattern of poor managerial appointments. There has been a handful of decent appointments at best.

Let's see what the next one brings 🤔

Franck Sauzee 15 games - terrible appointment, terrible decisions all round
Bobby Williamson 91 games - dismal football understandably hated.
Tony Mowbray 108 games - left us to go elsewhere after being successful, great appointment
John Collins 54 games - clearly a terrible people person and football manager, despite winning the cup he was not a good manager. 50/50 since we won a cup
Mixu Paatelainen 62 games - I liked Mixu, he went on to do OK, wasn't a terrible appointment
John Hughes 54 games - we had one of our worst run of league results ever and he was rightly sacked
Colin Calderwood 49 games - He wanted to leave and tried, he was dismal. terrible choice.
Pat Fenlon 87 games - he quit because he put together a horrific team and saw no way out. Was out of his depth, bad appointment.
Terry Butcher 27 games - Yep terrible appointment, but at the time everyone was quite positive about this and thought it was just what we needed.
Alan Stubbs 100 - Left us to manage in England after winning the cup, went on to kill his managerial career and has been awful apart from his time at hibs. Great appointment at the time though.
Neil Lennon 123 - He didn't want to be here, he had to go, was a good appointment at the time, probably a great appointment.
Jack Ross 96 games - Pretty good appointment, stabilised us away from relegation and finished 3rd, has us on a run of league games that almost rival Yogi.

I'd say it's about 50/50 and since getting relegated the 3 appointments have all been pretty good, but soured after a couple of years.

[Jones28]

It's not just Hibs - the shelf life of several managers is around 2 years - they either get sacked or headhunted for a bigger job.

Butchers 27 games felt like a life time.

Calderwood - Fenlon - Butcher almost made me fall out of love with football it was that bad.

I remember leaving games under Calderwood thinking can this get any worse then the week after we would be worse.

Out of that list only Tony Mowbray has moved on to another job that I would class as being a bigger job - the rest have at best made a sideways move, namely Stubbs moving to Rotherham in the Championship.

[Weegreenman]

What might have sticking with the existing manager meant? Can you honestly say you were seeing anything to suggest it was going to turn for him?

I think he deserved more time.
Two cup finals and a third placed finish last season. Add to that yet another cup final this season.
We all know how bad injuries and suspensions have effected us this season. There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that we’d have turned it around.
In a league were three or four wins on the bounce can propel you up to second or third, it’s a hasty decision that’s basically pandering to a new breed of supporter who have been used to annual trips to semi finals and finals like it’s their right.
A total lack of class has been shown. This is not the Hibernian I know and love.

The new manager better hit the ground running or else you’ll probably be shouting for them to be sacked.

[Wilson]

So have I come to think about it :greengrin

I would be very surprised it there are any 'useless fossils' at any football club though.

Not since we signed Ray Wilkins.

[B.H.F.C]

Out of that list only Tony Mowbray has moved on to another job that I would class as being a bigger job - the rest have at best made a sideways move, namely Stubbs moving to Rotherham in the Championship.

And out of the remainder of the list, I don’t think any have went on to manage bigger or better clubs or went on to have any real success after leaving Hibs (Lennon going back to Celtic the only exception although we know how that ended). I’m not sure Ross will get a bigger job than Hibs (or Sunderland for that matter). For all the talk of how short term we are that’s just football and there are hardly any on that list that you can disagree with us getting rid of.

[Weegreenman]

He deserved more time.
Getting us to another cup final and 3rd place last season imo credited him with a lot more time.

Apparently he had no plan B though. 😏

You don’t finish third and get to three cup finals without having a plan B.

[Weegreenman]

There are plenty players out of contract at the end of the season so bringing in new players won't be a problem.

It’s a huge gamble and as we all know it takes time for new players to fit in and gel.
As I’ve already said, we’ve all been here before and the chances of a new manager hitting the ground running are extremely low as previous appointments have shown.

[MartinfaePorty]

The thing about Mixu that confuses me is that he was sacked due to his boring style of football, but he then went to Killie and had them playing out from the goalkeeper in the manner that a number of top teams do now. He put in place the team that went on to win them the League Cup. Maybe he thought the pressure at Hibs meant he couldn't be more expansive, but I remember being really hacked off that he hadn't been that positive during his time at Easter Road.

[Tyler Durden]

I think many fans have short term memories of last season (not sure if not watching games in the stadium being an issue but some of the results / performances last season really haven't been good enough for a club with our resources.

I wasn't in the Jack Ross must go now camp but I was feeling a lot of what was happening was so predictable - late goals - dropped points - losing to Livi etc. Fine margins at times but that's life.

Overall..

If I have missed anything please feel free to add.


[/COLOR]

Your list of negatives is pretty mental to be honest. Claiming we lost 3 times to Aberdeen - we didn't.

Slating us for only drawing at Parkhead! We were playing a team worth about 10 times the value of our squad, despite Celtic's COVID outbreak.

Slagging Hibs for performances in the League Cup stage not being great - we won the group.

This type of thing is what drives the posts about Hibs fans having unrealistic expectations.

[Since452]

I think he deserved more time.
Two cup finals and a third placed finish last season. Add to that yet another cup final this season.
We all know how bad injuries and suspensions have effected us this season. There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that we’d have turned it around.
In a league were three or four wins on the bounce can propel you up to second or third, it’s a hasty decision that’s basically pandering to a new breed of supporter who have been used to annual trips to semi finals and finals like it’s their right.
A total lack of class has been shown. This is not the Hibernian I know and love.

The new manager better hit the ground running or else you’ll probably be shouting for them to be sacked.

I don't know what good sacking him now will do. When Lennon and Hecky left i felt the club got a whole lift but this time there is more of a "have we ballsed up here" feel about it.

[Jones28]

And out of the remainder of the list, I don’t think any have went on to manage bigger or better clubs or went on to have any real success after leaving Hibs (Lennon going back to Celtic the only exception although we know how that ended). I’m not sure Ross will get a bigger job than Hibs (or Sunderland for that matter). For all the talk of how short term we are that’s just football and there are hardly any on that list that you can disagree with us getting rid of.

:agree:

[jeffers]

The thing about Mixu that confuses me is that he was sacked due to his boring style of football, but he then went to Killie and had them playing out from the goalkeeper in the manner that a number of top teams do now. He put in place the team that went on to win them the League Cup. Maybe he thought the pressure at Hibs meant he couldn't be more expansive, but I remember being really hacked off that he hadn't been that positive during his time at Easter Road.

I thought he said after leaving Hibs he hadn’t really been ready for the job. He went away, visited other clubs and had a bit of rethink before taking the Killie job.

[Jones28]

I don't know what good sacking him now will do. When Lennon and Hecky left i felt the club got a whole lift but this time there is more of a "have we ballsed up here" feel about it.


I certainly feel thats the case; he was sacked too quickly without a replacement lined up other than one of our coaches who only hung his boots up last year. When you look at the list of candidates from the Daily Record there are a few managers in there with ship-steadying qualities who could have come on straight away. Neil was on the radio the night Ross was sacked basically airing his CV, why not offer him the job at least till the end of the season?

[StockholmHibs]

Time will tell whether the decision proves good or bad. The board is paid to take such decisions. The fact is 4 points from 27 would put any SPL manager under pressure, not just at Hibs. Sacking a manager always presents a dilemma in relation to timing. Some will always think it's happened to soon; others that it came too late. Personally, I thought he would have gotten the two league games before the final, but we are talking fine margins here: he was on the brink. Given form and performances, Ross can't have any complaints. This isn't a Spurs type situation, whereby a manger was sacked after three months in the job. We are sinking like a stone in the league; how long should the board allow it to continue?

How long? He should have got the final. Just out of respect for the man.
Those usless players threw him under the bus. They should be ashamed of themselves! Imposters!

[Alfred E Newman]

I don't know what good sacking him now will do. When Lennon and Hecky left i felt the club got a whole lift but this time there is more of a "have we ballsed up here" feel about it.

That's where I am with this. Usually when a manager goes there is an instant buzz of anticipation with the hope that the next incumbent of the hot seat will make us a top side again.
Even though I sat through the farce at Livingston I feel no enthusiasm for what is to come and that is worrying. I don't know what has been going on behind the scenes but no doubt it will come out soon enough but only a few weeks ago we were 45 mins from going clear at the top of the league. What has happened since then is staggering and even though we have a final to look forward to I just don't have the stomach for yet another period of instability and turmoil

[madhatter]

Don't think we are in disagreement just pointing out that despite Ross and his faults I think the hibs support can help by getting right behind the team. We did for eddie May the last time so hopefully the guys get right behind the team till the new man arrives. Everybody has a right to complain when things are obviously poor on the pitch and Ross Ross alluded to that in his last interview.
Ggtth.

I was right behind Jack Ross when he took over. Glad he took over from Hecky but like most of these matters opinions change when you watch them actually manage and have a team on the park. Contrary to how I'm normally regarded on here I had great hope when Jack Ross started and wanted him to succeed.

People are trying to connect dots and make a pattern that Hibs don't give managers enough time. McInnes got sacked from Aberdeen even though he delivered consistent league performance that we can only dream of at the moment. This is not some Hibs pattern. Fans will support a manager that is brave and puts a team on the park that fights for the club.


If people are looking at patterns then I'd say we have a pattern of complacency and arrogance. One good season and we rest on our laurels and players and managers believe in their own hype. What happens? Foot is taken off the gas and we splutter to absolute mediocrity. Then manager gets sacked.

We should have progressed in the summer and we didn’t. Forget new signings. Out of the existing players who has improved based on last season? Not many, if any. Massive regression in performances.

[Aldo]

I can understand the OP’s sentiment however we were only going one way if he remained and I’m
Not sure he would have been able to stop the slump.

Correct decision for me and timing has nothing to do with it. When is the right time? the right time is before it’s too late and the owner took the decision to do it!

Let’s not forget Butcher and co and how quick the demise set in there??


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[Since452]

That's where I am with this. Usually when a manager goes there is an instant buzz of anticipation with the hope that the next incumbent of the hot seat will make us a top side again.
Even though I sat through the farce at Livingston I feel no enthusiasm for what is to come and that is worrying. I don't know what has been going on behind the scenes but no doubt it will come out soon enough but only a few weeks ago we were 45 mins from going clear at the top of the league. What has happened since then is staggering and even though we have a final to look forward to I just don't have much enthusiasm for yet another period of instability and turmoil

I feel completely flat about the whole thing and already in the mindset that i'll not like the next guy as much. Really thought we had 3 or 4 years of consistency ahead of us for the first time in many a year with Ross. Real shame how its ended. I'm sure the new manager will do fine.

[IncredibleHibee]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at its finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.



I dont think you can reach that conclusion quite yet. We have to wait and see the outcome of everything before reaching a firm conclusion. The club may have someone lined up that we dont know about. There will likely be information that we are not privy to. This is one of 'time will tell'.

[ancient hibee]

It seems he was sacked at Livingston immediately after the game and that only beating Rangers saved him from the chop earlier. I suspect his replacement is already known and that only a desire not to appear devious has delayed the announcement.

[WhileTheChief..]

Trying to blame the fans is ridiculous.

JR will be looking at guys like Hanlon, Porteous and Boyle and thinking they let him down big time. He’d be right.

Until we have a clear out of our more experienced players nothing is going to improve.

Thye hide when the going gets tough. Get them out the door and let them pick up a cushey wage elsewhere.

[Callum_62]

Trying to blame the fans is ridiculous.

JR will be looking at guys like Hanlon, Porteous and Boyle and thinking they let him down big time. He’d be right.

Until we have a clear out of our more experienced players nothing is going to improve.

Thye hide when the going gets tough. Get them out the door and let them pick up a cushey wage elsewhere.Boyles been more than good this season

He never let anyone down

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[WhileTheChief..]

Shortisim appears to have been the method of choice for the Hibenian Manager Merry-go-round for the past 20 years :

Franck Sauzee 15 games
Bobby Williamson 91 games
Tony Mowbray 108 games
John Collins 54 games
Mixu Paatelainen 62 games
John Hughes 54 games
Colin Calderwood 49 games
Pat Fenlon 87 games
Terry Butcher 27 games
Alan Stubbs 100
Neil Lennon 123
Jack Ross 96 games

Add in the fact that there has also been 10th interim managers during that time and it's plain to see a worrying pattern of poor managerial appointments. There has been a handful of decent appointments at best.

Let's see what the next one brings 🤔


Good post.

Just shows that we’ve been crap at choosing managers really!

I reckon most clubs in Scotland would be similar.

[WhileTheChief..]

Boyles been more than good this season

He never let anyone down

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Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.

[blackpoolhibs]

Apparently he had no plan B though. 😏

You don’t finish third and get to three cup finals without having a plan B.
It is a lazy accusation by folk who dont have a clue, he's tried numerous changes to personel, systems and tactics during games, but when they dont result in wins he has no plan B. :agree:

[Northernhibee]

Trying to blame the fans is ridiculous.

JR will be looking at guys like Hanlon, Porteous and Boyle and thinking they let him down big time. He’d be right.

Until we have a clear out of our more experienced players nothing is going to improve.

Thye hide when the going gets tough. Get them out the door and let them pick up a cushey wage elsewhere.

Disagree. The three names you’ve mentioned are all very good Scottish Premiership players, two of them full internationalists and the other is almost guaranteed to become one.

There are enough top players in this team to get a tune out of. I really like Jack on a personal level and have defended him more than most over his tenure here but it was time to move on for the benefit of both parties.

[Bushwoof]

Definitely not the wrong decision for mine. The football under JR has been rotten to watch. Last year I put it down to the absence of fans cheering the players on. But this season has been just the same, with the added problem of a set of horrendous results.
No point in blaming the players or the fans.

[The Modfather]

The thing about Mixu that confuses me is that he was sacked due to his boring style of football, but he then went to Killie and had them playing out from the goalkeeper in the manner that a number of top teams do now. He put in place the team that went on to win them the League Cup. Maybe he thought the pressure at Hibs meant he couldn't be more expansive, but I remember being really hacked off that he hadn't been that positive during his time at Easter Road.

Mixu said he took time to re-assess football and his management after Hibs, taking in training at various clubs. He felt he came back a better manager for doing so which the job he did at Killie would sufgest that probably was the case.

That’s one of the, heavily caveated, reasons I’d not necessarily be against Mcinnes in principle. It would have to be on the understanding that he has taken a similar approach to Mixu and focussed on the first part of his Aberdeen career and decided that’s the manager he wants to be and not what he became. If he was to view the fact style is as important as results I’d not be against him. Although do concede he’d be starting on the back foot from day 1 so probably best to look elsewhere.

[heid the baw]

What makes me support the decision was his cup record. To lose a semi 3-0 when you are looking at St Mirren or livi in the final is poor. Then losing a semi to your nearest rivals who have not trained for weeks is difficult to take. Then an opportunity to win the Scottish cup against a non old firm opponent, something that rarely happens, is unforgivable.
For all of us who remember the barren years without getting anywhere near a final appearance, these results were very hard to take.
Once his league form dipped it was time for him to go. I was surprised how quickly the decision was made, but if we had lost the next few league games got pumped in the final and found ourselves in a relegation battle,then a thread like this would not have existed.
The other worrying factors were the number of red cards and the general apathy of season ticket holders who couldn't be bothered taking their seats due to woeful home form

[Northernhibee]

What makes me support the decision was his cup record. To lose a semi 3-0 when you are looking at St Mirren or livi in the final is poor. Then losing a semi to your nearest rivals who have not trained for weeks is difficult to take. Then an opportunity to win the Scottish cup against a non old firm opponent, something that rarely happens, is unforgivable.
For all of us who remember the barren years without getting anywhere near a final appearance, these results were very hard to take.
Once his league form dipped it was time for him to go. I was surprised how quickly the decision was made, but if we had lost the next few league games got pumped in the final and found ourselves in a relegation battle,then a thread like this would not have existed.
The other worrying factors were the number of red cards and the general apathy of season ticket holders who couldn't be bothered taking their seats due to woeful home form

So by never failing to make Hampden his cup final record was poor????

[Diclonius]

Under Petrie/Dempster Ross would not have been sacked this early. It's clear that Gordon doesn't tolerate bad runs of any shape or form.

We'll find out whether that's a good thing soon enough.

[FilipinoHibs]

Yep - and for us, it's just a hobby at the end of the day.

That is tongue in cheek? It is a way of life. I love Hibs just after my family and dogs.

[FilipinoHibs]

Under Petrie/Dempster Ross would not have been sacked this early. It's clear that Gordon doesn't tolerate bad runs of any shape or form.

We'll find out whether that's a good thing soon enough.

Lennon and Heck were hiven too much time.

[heid the baw]

So by never failing to make Hampden his cup final record was poor????

By not seizing the opportunity his record was abysmal. They never turned up for these games his preparation and motivation was woefully inadequate and as a manager, that is his job

[Callum_62]

Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.Come off it - a disgrace?

He's probably been our best player this year

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[ClermistonGreen]

What makes me support the decision was his cup record. To lose a semi 3-0 when you are looking at St Mirren or livi in the final is poor. Then losing a semi to your nearest rivals who have not trained for weeks is difficult to take. Then an opportunity to win the Scottish cup against a non old firm opponent, something that rarely happens, is unforgivable.
For all of us who remember the barren years without getting anywhere near a final appearance, these results were very hard to take.
Once his league form dipped it was time for him to go. I was surprised how quickly the decision was made, but if we had lost the next few league games got pumped in the final and found ourselves in a relegation battle,then a thread like this would not have existed.
The other worrying factors were the number of red cards and the general apathy of season ticket holders who couldn't be bothered taking their seats due to woeful home form
Having followed the club for well over 50 years , this sums it up perfectly for me

[Rick Rude]

Trying to blame the fans is ridiculous.

JR will be looking at guys like Hanlon, Porteous and Boyle and thinking they let him down big time. He’d be right.

Until we have a clear out of our more experienced players nothing is going to improve.

Thye hide when the going gets tough. Get them out the door and let them pick up a cushey wage elsewhere.

Boyle has essentially kept him in a job this long. Take away Boyle from this team and God knows where we would be. Certainly wouldn't be 7th and in a final though.

[WestCoastHibby]

Jack Ross will walk away with several sheckles in his back pocket.
Along with the payoff from his Sunderland job, I don’t think he needs to worry about his next gas bill.
Let’s just hope the next person in post has a bit of fight and bite about them and that we can get a bit more spirit about the club .

[Rumble de Thump]

Only three players have scored more goals in the league than Boyle. Not bad considering he's not really a striker.

[BoomtownHibees]

Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.

Boyle has been a disgrace? Wow

[Northernhibee]

By not seizing the opportunity his record was abysmal. They never turned up for these games his preparation and motivation was woefully inadequate and as a manager, that is his job

At least he created the opportunities - you’ll eventually convert one of them.

In the end I wanted to see Jack move on and vice versa but that’s far from being the smoking gun you think it is.

[MKHIBEE]

They need to get someone in soon for it not to look like a knee jerk decision. Hopefully they have someone lined up but if true Ross was summarily sacked at Livingston stadium that seems very ooor imo. Time for decision makers to step up.
They already have, that’s why we are looking for a new head coach/manager.

[CentreLine]

Yes, it is the supporters fault...

Empty seats in the stadium sent negative vibes to the players and manager. Hang on, they played better in an empty stadium.

Honestly terrible patter to put this on fans. Fairly certain 2 years is longer than the average stay of a manager in European football. Certainly this 5-6year empire-building situation people have in their heads just doesn't happen at our level. If Jack Ross had another successful season this year he, almost without doubt, would have left to a club paying him more money

Anyone changing their underpants every 2 years needs a good clean.

No not the supporters, they support. The followers who pick holes and choose not to see anything but negativity in their view of the club are at fault.
In my years of supporting Hibs it used to be fans and supporters of other teams who would run down our club. Now they don’t need to bother. We have our very own band of detractors claiming to support the club but spreading nothing but negativity and pessimism. Supporters? Don’t think so.

[Rumble de Thump]

I watched the cup final against St Johnstone with one of my friends who fell asleep during the first half. I didn't wake him up because his snoring was more entertaining than the game. We never looked like scoring. We barely looked liked we'd turned up. Unfortunately, there were too many games like that, which was strange as we did play much better in other games.

[LunasBoots]

At the end of the day the football we where playing under JR was going to hit the club financially and already has with dwindling attendances while hes been unable to motivate the squad. I dont like this 'Theres a cup final coming up so we should keep him' been there seen that before. The correct decsion was made and now the club can move forward.

[WhileTheChief..]

Come off it - a disgrace?

He's probably been our best player this year

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That’s the worry!!

In fairness, I’ve never been a huge fan of Boyle but he should be leading by example. I don’t see it though.

Take away his penalties and he’s offered very little this season, despite being our best player!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Whether it's the wrong decision or not will as usual be decided by how the new guy gets on. For me it's a decision that doesn't have me jumping with delight or shaking with anger.

With Ross even in the seasons where we finished well in the league there were periods of two or three games on the trot where we were terrible, but then turned things around, this time we are on a car crash run of results that he didn't look like he could change and the worrying thing was that even when we did play well enough it didn't affect the end result ... after being awful in the first half against Celtic we were actually decent in the second, but couldn't score, we were decent against Rangers, but once again couldn't put the ball in the net.

His cup record in the end probably didn't do him any favours because of how the runs ended ... getting to all these semis and two finals is to his credit for sure. But losing a semi to Hearts that we could and should have won and a semi and a final to St Johnstone, a team every fan of the 'big three' outside of the old firm expects their club to be able to beat, can only be viewed as blown chances and ultimately as failure. Look at Pat Fenlon, he got us to two SC finals in a row, something no Hibs manager can claim to have done ( I stand to be corrected ) ... but does anybody class him as one of our better managers, a guy who was eventually sacked, or at least forced out, days after losing a LC tie to Hearts 0 - 1 ..... a game where we absolutely played them off the park, but nobody cared, it was a game he simply had to win.

I would agree that Ross was let down by our recruitment .. we needed a centre half and a striker in the summer and the fact we signed neither certainly didn't help him. But IMO he had enough at his disposal to keep us well up the league until the situation could be sorted and when you start consistently losing to clubs in the bottom half allied to woeful displays at home against the likes of Dundee United you are always going to be in bother as a manager.

As for the fans. I'm not sure how anybody can claim we forced him out, apart from at best sporadic booing at full time at ER and some folk clearly voting with their feet ( the prices don't help Mr Gordon ) I can't recall any full on 'Ross Out' chants at ER and AFAIK Livingston was one of only a few times the away fans had really given him it tight. Even on here there wasn't anything like the vitriol I've seen aimed at other Hibs managers prior to their demise.

NOTE:

I don't know if I want him to be the next Hibs manager, but what Callum Davidson did at St Johnstone last season was nothing short of a football miracle and the fact it still didn't earn him manager of the year is nothing short of outrageous and probably tells you everything you need to know about where loyalties lie in Scottish football.

[Purple & Green]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at its finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.

It was inevitable, if RG and JR didn't work well together. The timing is the timing, but I think RG and BK have a better idea of what they want from a Head Coach. JR wasn't that Head Coach. Whilst results were good, JR was safe. When the results downturned, it was inevitable.

[nlandsafchibee]

Definitely not the wrong decision for mine. The football under JR has been rotten to watch. Last year I put it down to the absence of fans cheering the players on. But this season has been just the same, with the added problem of a set of horrendous results.
No point in blaming the players or the fans.

Totally disagree in the later part .The players are massively to blame and if you read Joe Newells interview comments you might change your minds .When they go on that pitch they should carry out Managers instructions and at very last bust a gut in the Hibs shirt .It is not any Managers fault if 7 decent chances in last 2 matches were missed. I agree with someone who said that the Rangers sending off when 1-0 up was a turning point .Reckless tackles also by someone who should know better in Paul Hanlon 2 sendings off and a bad one in semi final where not Managers fault.
Porteous has some good attributes but he cost team too many points and he needs to learn where and when to put in proper tackles and when to just jockey or try and get a toe in.
JR s downfall was that he trusted the players and by their own admission they let him down .Still for them they dont get the sack and enjoy the extended contracts that a lot of them got from a Manager who believed in them

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

The 2 derby losses (early on in the league and then in the cup) imo went a long way to him losing a portion of fans. I said at the time, the cup semi was his Robbie replay moment and for some there was no way back. they were given further ammo when he lost twice to St J - in isolation that's v.poor but i think we have to recognise partly that they also put out Rangers at Ibrox and just had a freak season

Winning when not playing the most attractive football can get some on board but when the wins start to dry up, then more join the "Ross Out" camp.

I liked Ross, i liked the way he spoke about football and how he always maintained a positive spin on things. I think he was thrown under a bus with summer transfer business, and injuries hindered him but the team lost motivation, they lost discipline and i think they lost belief in the manager.

Add everything up, it was probably just about the right time to go (even if i thought he might've seen out the year)

RG spoke of ambition, this decision strikes me as not tolerating mediocrity. Let's hope he has a good understanding now of the club, what the fans look for and he makes an ambitious appointment

[MB62]

Yep - and for us, it's just a hobby at the end of the day.

Never, have I ever thought that Supporting Hibernian Football Club was just a Hobby. This is a WAY OF LIFE, for whatever that might turn out to be. Hobbies don't get me so depressed or so elated, depending on results and performance. If supporting Hibs was 'just a hobby' it's one I would have binned about 50 years ago.
The jury is out for me on whether J.R. should have been sacked, I'm neither disappointed nor delighted. I can see why he was sacked, one win in nine is relegation stuff, and if the players are angry at his dismissal, then maybe a bit more fight on the park would have saved his job. However, 2 weeks before a cup final is dubious timing, but the 2 games before that have now become extremely important.

[heid the baw]

At least he created the opportunities - you’ll eventually convert one of them.

In the end I wanted to see Jack move on and vice versa but that’s far from being the smoking gun you think it is.

My point is that these were huge opportunities for a club like ours. Hearts were a penalty shootout away from a SC win. We were abysmal in these 3 games. Managers have to get the team prepared and motivated. Managers have to plan tactics and reassess them during a game.
Neil Lennon for example would not have accepted these performances. That is where I think Jack Ross fell short. Too willing to tolerate mediocrity and not hungry enough for silverware

[The Harp Awakes]

Whether it's the wrong decision or not will as usual be decided by how the new guy gets on. For me it's a decision that doesn't have me jumping with delight or shaking with anger.

With Ross even in the seasons where we finished well in the league there were periods of two or three games on the trot where we were terrible, but then turned things around, this time we are on a car crash run of results that he didn't look like he could change and the worrying thing was that even when we did play well enough it didn't affect the end result ... after being awful in the first half against Celtic we were actually decent in the second, but couldn't score, we were decent against Rangers, but once again couldn't put the ball in the net.

His cup record in the end probably didn't do him any favours because of how the runs ended ... getting to all these semis and two finals is to his credit for sure. But losing a semi to Hearts that we could and should have won and a semi and a final to St Johnstone, a team every fan of the 'big three' outside of the old firm expects their club to be able to beat, can only be viewed as blown chances and ultimately as failure. Look at Pat Fenlon, he got us to two SC finals in a row, something no Hibs manager can claim to have done ( I stand to be corrected ) ... but does anybody class him as one of our better managers, a guy who was eventually sacked, or at least forced out, days after losing a LC tie to Hearts 0 - 1 ..... a game where we absolutely played them off the park, but nobody cared, it was a game he simply had to win.

I would agree that Ross was let down by our recruitment .. we needed a centre half and a striker in the summer and the fact we signed neither certainly didn't help him. But IMO he had enough at his disposal to keep us well up the league until the situation could be sorted and when you start consistently losing to clubs in the bottom half allied to woeful displays at home against the likes of Dundee United you are always going to be in bother as a manager.

As for the fans. I'm not sure how anybody can claim we forced him out, apart from at best sporadic booing at full time at ER and some folk clearly voting with their feet ( the prices don't help Mr Gordon ) I can't recall any full on 'Ross Out' chants at ER and AFAIK Livingston was one of only a few times the away fans had really given him it tight. Even on here there wasn't anything like the vitriol I've seen aimed at other Hibs managers prior to their demise.

NOTE:

I don't know if I want him to be the next Hibs manager, but what Callum Davidson did at St Johnstone last season was nothing short of a football miracle and the fact it still didn't earn him manager of the year is nothing short of outrageous and probably tells you everything you need to know about where loyalties lie in Scottish football.

A very good post and a good point about Fenlon.

The Semi Final defeat last season v St Johnstone typified JR's reign at Hibs. We absolutely pummelled them for 30 minutes, couldn't score, lost a goal and then completely fell apart. The St Johnstone Final was also 1 of several games under JR where the team totally failed to turn up and just didn't fancy it.

There were of course many games last season, particularly away from home, where we had some excellent results and we deserved to finish 3rd over the season. We were also decent at the start of this season.

Whatever the reason for the Jekyll & Hide act; poor recruitment, injuries, inconsistency, lack of mental toughness in big games, bad preparation and/or tactics, the bottom line is we won nothing under JR and a rookie Manager at St Johnstone, who likely had about 1/5 of our player budget, embarrassed us twice and won 2 Cups.

As good a win record as JR had at Hibs, I always felt during his reign that when something went against us in a game, the players would often crumble. The Livi game on Wednesday was another example.

At the end of the day, you can't have a situation where players just turn it on when they can be bothered. In any walk of life, if you manage a team with that attitude, your head would be in the chopping block. Football management is no different. I think Ron Gordon asked himself if he thought JR was capable of getting more out of the players and turning things around and the answer was 'no'. A tough call but I agree with him.

[Northernhibee]

My point is that these were huge opportunities for a club like ours. Hearts were a penalty shootout away from a SC win. We were abysmal in these 3 games. Managers have to get the team prepared and motivated. Managers have to plan tactics and reassess them during a game.
Neil Lennon for example would not have accepted these performances. That is where I think Jack Ross fell short. Too willing to tolerate mediocrity and not hungry enough for silverware
Neil Lennon led us to a loss against Aberdeen in the cup. He had a worse cup record than Jack Ross.

[bigwheel]

My point is that these were huge opportunities for a club like ours. Hearts were a penalty shootout away from a SC win. We were abysmal in these 3 games. Managers have to get the team prepared and motivated. Managers have to plan tactics and reassess them during a game.
Neil Lennon for example would not have accepted these performances. That is where I think Jack Ross fell short. Too willing to tolerate mediocrity and not hungry enough for silverware

I’ll give you two of the three games, but We weren’t abysmal against Hearts in the semi . We were the better team. And equally, we were a penalty miss away from being in that final ….

Neil Lennon produced a worse run of results for us than Ross ..your comparison makes your point much less compelling

[Carheenlea]

I’m a bit in a position of flux at present wondering if this is something we might regret, and a lot of that is pretty much round the fact that I liked having Jack Ross as a Hibs manager but to continue supporting him as Hibs manager was becoming harder by the week.
A couple of highlights recently of course in the cup win against Rangers and the late win at Perth, but ultimately it’s a run of form that few managers would survive.

I was though quite looking forward to the January window to see what would happen with Keane/Ross working together bringing in players to hopefully improve the squad and perhaps kick on. Problem I have is that I don’t know if I really have much faith in the recruitment team in doing that given Keane hasn’t had a window yet to show us what he brings to the club.

Just feeling a bit nervous about the whole situation as a lot of things need to fall into place pretty quickly for us to improve as a team through the transfer window and into the remainder of season.

[cabbageandribs1875]

bring him back :agree:











:greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

It seems he was sacked at Livingston immediately after the game and that only beating Rangers saved him from the chop earlier. I suspect his replacement is already known and that only a desire not to appear devious has delayed the announcement.

It’s a shocker if they were thinking of sacking him before the semi final, unless there was a breakdown in relations between the manager and CEO/owner

[Mainstandman]

Totally disagree in the later part .The players are massively to blame and if you read Joe Newells interview comments you might change your minds .When they go on that pitch they should carry out Managers instructions and at very last bust a gut in the Hibs shirt .It is not any Managers fault if 7 decent chances in last 2 matches were missed. I agree with someone who said that the Rangers sending off when 1-0 up was a turning point .Reckless tackles also by someone who should know better in Paul Hanlon 2 sendings off and a bad one in semi final where not Managers fault.
Porteous has some good attributes but he cost team too many points and he needs to learn where and when to put in proper tackles and when to just jockey or try and get a toe in.
JR s downfall was that he trusted the players and by their own admission they let him down .Still for them they dont get the sack and enjoy the extended contracts that a lot of them got from a Manager who believed in them

When the players are not at their best then the manager needs to challenge that and sort it out, that is one of their primary roles. It’s difficult to do but that honesty is the basis for improvement. The easy way is to avoid and try and motivate more. On joe newells comments when I see that sort of thing that they are happy and training is good I feel they are not being challenged enough to perform.

[JimBHibees]

Neil Lennon led us to a loss against Aberdeen in the cup. He had a worse cup record than Jack Ross.

And Queen of the south in the league cup at home

[JimBHibees]

I’m a bit in a position of flux at present wondering if this is something we might regret, and a lot of that is pretty much round the fact that I liked having Jack Ross as a Hibs manager but to continue supporting him as Hibs manager was becoming harder by the week.
A couple of highlights recently of course in the cup win against Rangers and the late win at Perth, but ultimately it’s a run of form that few managers would survive.

I was though quite looking forward to the January window to see what would happen with Keane/Ross working together bringing in players to hopefully improve the squad and perhaps kick on. Problem I have is that I don’t know if I really have much faith in the recruitment team in doing that given Keane hasn’t had a window yet to show us what he brings to the club.

Just feeling a bit nervous about the whole situation as a lot of things need to fall into place pretty quickly for us to improve as a team through the transfer window and into the remainder of season.

Keans role is more development in terms of providing a structure to bring players from u18 to first team squad.

[Winston Ingram]

Every place I’ve ever worked has contained useless fossils that cost the business money and never get sacked, so the comparison doesn’t work for me.

It does but they are usually minnions. Not in charge of the core business as JR was

[BSEJVT]

It’s a shocker if they were thinking of sacking him before the semi final, unless there was a breakdown in relations between the manager and CEO/owner

Agreed Billy

Unless as you say there was a falling out then I too would find that really worrying

We were a long way from the crisis we now find ourselves in at that point

[Stonewall]

I’m a bit in a position of flux at present wondering if this is something we might regret, and a lot of that is pretty much round the fact that I liked having Jack Ross as a Hibs manager but to continue supporting him as Hibs manager was becoming harder by the week.
A couple of highlights recently of course in the cup win against Rangers and the late win at Perth, but ultimately it’s a run of form that few managers would survive.

I was though quite looking forward to the January window to see what would happen with Keane/Ross working together bringing in players to hopefully improve the squad and perhaps kick on. Problem I have is that I don’t know if I really have much faith in the recruitment team in doing that given Keane hasn’t had a window yet to show us what he brings to the club.

Just feeling a bit nervous about the whole situation as a lot of things need to fall into place pretty quickly for us to improve as a team through the transfer window and into the remainder of season.

I totally agree with you as I don’t see where we go from here and have a feeling we’ve abandoned any sense of long term strategy and are in danger of returning to more or less random managerial appointments each a reaction to the perceived failings of the previous incumbent.

I think Ross has been hard done by. Let down by the club over recruitment, the players and to an extent a significant number of supporters who never gave him a chance and were sniping at him almost from the get go based on what some at Sunderland had said about him.

Let’s face it the way management appointments go if I was to keep posting negatively about the next guy the chances are I would be proved right in the end. Doesn’t mean that I’ve got a bloody clue though.

[Tommy75]

However we feel about this (both arguments are valid) the only thing all of us want is Hibernian FC winning games of football. Sooner we get back to that the better and we wont be debating Jack Ross anymore.

I agree 100% but even when we were winning our fair share of games last season and the start of this season, I kept reading on here how we were 'boring' to watch? Some fans will never be happy even when we are winning.

[Jim44]

I’ve said on other threads that, although I understand and am not surprised at the reasons, I am very disappointed at the decision. This thread asks a specific question, so, on balance, I think it was the wrong decision. In my opinion, JR was more than capable of reversing our fortunes, and if we are faced with the choices which appears on another thread, I am far from confident in our future progress.

[GreenCastle]

Your list of negatives is pretty mental to be honest. Claiming we lost 3 times to Aberdeen - we didn't.

Slating us for only drawing at Parkhead! We were playing a team worth about 10 times the value of our squad, despite Celtic's COVID outbreak.

Slagging Hibs for performances in the League Cup stage not being great - we won the group.

This type of thing is what drives the posts about Hibs fans having unrealistic expectations.

We lost 3 out of 4 games to the worst Aberdeen team in years last season.

3-1
1-0
2-0

It wasn’t a great Celtic team - ok they were still reasonable enough but another missed opportunity and facts it was a last minute equaliser for us.

The league cup group we won but again the performances were awful - playing some of these part time teams - again warning signs for several.

I don’t have unrealistic expectations but i want Hibs to improve and not be the same Hibs that come up short or have had glorious failure.

Maybe it’s a generation thing but we should be not losing regularly to several teams in this league which has happened under Ross.

[ahibby]

We lost 3 out of 4 games to the worst Aberdeen team in years last season.

3-1
1-0
2-0

It wasn’t a great Celtic team - ok they were still reasonable enough but another missed opportunity and facts it was a last minute equaliser for us.

The league cup group we won but again the performances were awful - playing some of these part time teams - again warning signs for several.

I don’t have unrealistic expectations but i want Hibs to improve and not be the same Hibs that come up short or have had glorious failure.

Maybe it’s a generation thing but we should be not losing regularly to several teams in this league which has happened under Ross.

Those who want him to stay can always say we would have done better no matter what is achieved. For what its worth, I think injuries to Doudge, Magennis, MacKay, Murphy, Halberg and illnesses have cost him his job.

[Bushwoof]

I agree 100% but even when we were winning our fair share of games last season and the start of this season, I kept reading on here how we were 'boring' to watch? Some fans will never be happy even when we are winning.

We WERE boring to watch though, so much so that large numbers of ST holders didn't want to go and watch it. I've kept going despite the boredom, and there are a lot of bored expressions round where I sit. But it's not just Hibs fans - that's what finished McInnes off at Aberdeen, and they nearly won the league and the cup not so long ago.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Those who want him to stay can always say we would have done better no matter what is achieved. For what its worth, I think injuries to Doudge, Magennis, MacKay, Murphy, Halberg and illnesses have cost him his job.

He's had no luck, that's true. There are mitigating factors, but it always comes down to results, and 4 points from 27 in this league is pitiful.

[GreenCastle]

Those who want him to stay can always say we would have done better no matter what is achieved. For what its worth, I think injuries to Doudge, Magennis, MacKay, Murphy, Halberg and illnesses have cost him his job.

Injuries / suspensions happen to every squad.

The covid situation trickier to manage.

Hibs didn’t recruit well over summer - whether that is Ross or Mathie or both accountable - we didn’t push on after 3rd.

3rd was going to be hard again but if you look at the lineups we were pretty much playing the same 11 as last season except Macey and JDH.

Lack of depth and options (could argue poor planning) has cost him his job.

He may come out in future and say his hands were tied with recruitment - but the depth especially off the bench isn’t / wasn’t there.

[lord bunberry]

We WERE boring to watch though, so much so that large numbers of ST holders didn't want to go and watch it. I've kept going despite the boredom, and there are a lot of bored expressions round where I sit. But it's not just Hibs fans - that's what finished McInnes off at Aberdeen, and they nearly won the league and the cup not so long ago.
Do you know what else was really boring? Playing in the championship, losing every week and being in a relegation fight, neither would’ve happened under Ross imo. He would’ve stopped the slide, strengthened in the window and put up a decent challenge for a European spot. At that point he’d probably have been sacked because not enough fans believed in what he was doing. I wouldn’t necessarily have agreed, but would’ve accepted it as being for the greater good. Sacking him now is an enormous risk, we have a hectic schedule that includes a cup final and we’re being led into these vital games by a rookie who’s had a quarter of a season worth of coaching under his belt. Obviously this has divided opinion, but I’m in the wrong decision camp.

[jacomo]

We WERE boring to watch though, so much so that large numbers of ST holders didn't want to go and watch it. I've kept going despite the boredom, and there are a lot of bored expressions round where I sit. But it's not just Hibs fans - that's what finished McInnes off at Aberdeen, and they nearly won the league and the cup not so long ago.


McInnes was at Aberdeen for 7 years and he won the league cup in his 2nd season iirc.

Our situation is very different to that.

[Bushwoof]

Do you know what else was really boring? Playing in the championship, losing every week and being in a relegation fight, neither would’ve happened under Ross imo.

Are we not in a relegation fight after losing every week though? We might well have been heading for the championship too if things had carried on as they are.

[One Day Soon]

A very good post and a good point about Fenlon.

The Semi Final defeat last season v St Johnstone typified JR's reign at Hibs. We absolutely pummelled them for 30 minutes, couldn't score, lost a goal and then completely fell apart. The St Johnstone Final was also 1 of several games under JR where the team totally failed to turn up and just didn't fancy it.

There were of course many games last season, particularly away from home, where we had some excellent results and we deserved to finish 3rd over the season. We were also decent at the start of this season.

Whatever the reason for the Jekyll & Hide act; poor recruitment, injuries, inconsistency, lack of mental toughness in big games, bad preparation and/or tactics, the bottom line is we won nothing under JR and a rookie Manager at St Johnstone, who likely had about 1/5 of our player budget, embarrassed us twice and won 2 Cups.

As good a win record as JR had at Hibs, I always felt during his reign that when something went against us in a game, the players would often crumble. The Livi game on Wednesday was another example.

At the end of the day, you can't have a situation where players just turn it on when they can be bothered. In any walk of life, if you manage a team with that attitude, your head would be in the chopping block. Football management is no different. I think Ron Gordon asked himself if he thought JR was capable of getting more out of the players and turning things around and the answer was 'no'. A tough call but I agree with him.


Perfect analysis for me. Completely agree.

[GreenCastle]

A very good post and a good point about Fenlon.

The Semi Final defeat last season v St Johnstone typified JR's reign at Hibs. We absolutely pummelled them for 30 minutes, couldn't score, lost a goal and then completely fell apart. The St Johnstone Final was also 1 of several games under JR where the team totally failed to turn up and just didn't fancy it.

There were of course many games last season, particularly away from home, where we had some excellent results and we deserved to finish 3rd over the season. We were also decent at the start of this season.

Whatever the reason for the Jekyll & Hide act; poor recruitment, injuries, inconsistency, lack of mental toughness in big games, bad preparation and/or tactics, the bottom line is we won nothing under JR and a rookie Manager at St Johnstone, who likely had about 1/5 of our player budget, embarrassed us twice and won 2 Cups.

As good a win record as JR had at Hibs, I always felt during his reign that when something went against us in a game, the players would often crumble. The Livi game on Wednesday was another example.

At the end of the day, you can't have a situation where players just turn it on when they can be bothered. In any walk of life, if you manage a team with that attitude, your head would be in the chopping block. Football management is no different. I think Ron Gordon asked himself if he thought JR was capable of getting more out of the players and turning things around and the answer was 'no'. A tough call but I agree with him.

Good post :agree:

[Allant1981]

Are we not in a relegation fight after losing every week though? We might well have been heading for the championship too if things had carried on as they are.

No we aren't in a relegation fight, we are only just coming to halfway through the season and despite being absolute rank for the last wee while we are still in 7th place, we started the season well, most teams go through bad stages of a season, this was ours

[Fergus52]

It's not just Hibs - the shelf life of several managers is around 2 years - they either get sacked or headhunted for a bigger job.

Butchers 27 games felt like a life time.

Calderwood - Fenlon - Butcher almost made me fall out of love with football it was that bad.

I remember leaving games under Calderwood thinking can this get any worse then the week after we would be worse.

We are the joint worst professional club in the UK when it comes to average length of a managers tenure here.

[Tommy75]

We WERE boring to watch though, so much so that large numbers of ST holders didn't want to go and watch it. I've kept going despite the boredom, and there are a lot of bored expressions round where I sit. But it's not just Hibs fans - that's what finished McInnes off at Aberdeen, and they nearly won the league and the cup not so long ago.


Outwith Rangers and Celtic - last season we scored more goals than any other team in the league and conceded less than any other team. We also had more shots on target over the season (again excluding Rangers/Celtic). I know stats don't always tell the full story but they suggest we were attacking with some intent.

We came 3rd, scored plenty goals, created plenty chances, a semi-final and a final - if a Hibs team that achieves that can not motivate someone to renew their season ticket I doubt they had any intention of renewing.

McInnes was at Aberdeen for 7/8 years so not fair to make comparisons.

[The Modfather]

Outwith Rangers and Celtic - last season we scored more goals than any other team in the league and conceded less than any other team. We also had more shots on target over the season (again excluding Rangers/Celtic). I know stats don't always tell the full story but they suggest we were attacking with some intent.

We came 3rd, scored plenty goals, created plenty chances, a semi-final and a final - if a Hibs team that achieves that can not motivate someone to renew their season ticket I doubt they had any intention of renewing.

McInnes was at Aberdeen for 7/8 years so not fair to make comparisons.

That’s a poor reply. You can’t force people to enjoy something. Last season was a successful season, I personally didn’t enjoy it or look back on it with much fondness no matter how many stats you can list.

[onfire]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.

[B.H.F.C]

We are the joint worst professional club in the UK when it comes to average length of a managers tenure here.

Over what period? There are clubs down south that have a new manager about every three months (Watford spring to mind).

[madsen5]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.
Did you enjoy Jack's boring negative brand of football sideways backwards hoof .

[theonlywayisup]

Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.

Boyle a disgrace! Wow!

Most ridiculous post I've read for a long time.

[onfire]

Did you enjoy Jack's boring negative brand of football sideways backwards hoof .

I didn’t see it like that - I enjoyed a team that would win games, get to semis / finals and Europe! We had a bad run - not disagreeing! But overall
Was 100% happy!

Who was the past manager that floated your boat?

[Winston Ingram]

Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.

25358

[theonlywayisup]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.

100% agree - player recruitment is the root cause of all our problems this season.

[Winston Ingram]

I didn’t see it like that - I enjoyed a team that would win games, get to semis / finals and Europe! We had a bad run - not disagreeing! But overall
Was 100% happy!

Who was the past manager that floated your boat?

Win games? We’ve won 2 league games since August. 1 of those was via a dodgy pen and the other we played against 10 men for 45 mins.

[onfire]

Win games? We’ve won 2 league games since August. 1 of those was via a dodgy pen and the other we played against 10 men for 45 mins.

Won 3 games in the league in august, lost none in September wining 1, then our bad run - we won cup games in October and November - but you’ll not being going to the final as that’s not part of your stats😀

[scoopyboy]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

[Allant1981]

Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.

Absolute rubbish, boyle has been anything but a disgrace, our best player this year by a mile, despite the crap penalty at livi

[Allant1981]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

How do you know he doesnt have someone in mind, its only been 2 days

[JimBHibees]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

Bound to have been some sort of discussion re what if we decide to sack Jack however would have hoped that a new guy was ready to come in. If that isn't the case hopefully they are now moving heaven and earth to start somebody soon.

[wookie70]

We are the joint worst professional club in the UK when it comes to average length of a managers tenure here. Who is worse and are they as unsuccessful as us given our relative wealth in our league. I think this is one of the biggest reasons Hibs struggle. We much spend half the money on paying off players and managers

[JimBHibees]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.

Amazing number of new posters who know everything about the running of the club yet refrained from that opinion previously.

[scoopyboy]

How do you know he doesnt have someone in mind, its only been 2 days

From conversations that took place at East Mains, I'm not going to put names to it but it shouldn't be too difficult to narrow it down.

[scoopyboy]

Bound to have been some sort of discussion re what if we decide to sack Jack however would have hoped that a new guy was ready to come in. If that isn't the case hopefully they are now moving heaven and earth to start somebody soon.

You would hope they are moving heaven and earth.

[B.H.F.C]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

That would leave me wondering what the purpose of appointing a CEO was if he’s just going to make that decision from afar (a decision I agree with like).

[Allant1981]

From conversations that took place at East Mains, I'm not going to put names to it but it shouldn't be too difficult to narrow it down.

Fair enough if thats what you heard but i find it strange that these types of business people dont have plans in place for situations like this

[MikeyS]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

I appreciate that you are well connected to the on goings at the club but you can't possibly know that there isn't a succession plan unless you've spoke directly with RG, his laddie or BK directly.

Who ever the player is that feeds you your info will not and should not be privvy to the plans in appointing a new manager.

[scoopyboy]

Fair enough if thats what you heard but i find it strange that these types of business people dont have plans in place for situations like this

From my post you can see I am agreeing with you, it beggars belief.

I found it strange that Ron Gordon bought us in the first place, in fact if I'm being honest I still do.

It may be a knee jerk reaction from him but time will tell.

[Since452]

We are the joint worst professional club in the UK when it comes to average length of a managers tenure here.

I often think our fans are the most delusional in the UK. There is an expectation that we have to play like 1970's Brazil or the mythical "Hibs way" amongst a large part of our fanbase. Any manager has their work cut out here to satisfy the fans. Give me boring 1-0 wins every week.

[onfire]

Amazing number of new posters who know everything about the running of the club yet refrained from that opinion previously.

That’s because I was happy before they sacked Ross - simple! That’s why I posted on this thread to give my opinion - I’m allowed my opinion as a reader and usual non poster all the same am I not- it’s something I feel strongly about. I suppose you feel the opposite and are happy he’s sacked - which is your decision.

[nlandsafchibee]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.
I am in your corner and what is more worrying as you make the point.. Kensell A very poor appointment by Ron.So now at the top of the tree you have Ron and son and Kensell all who have no direct of experience of the football side of a club or Scottish Football or Hibs passion ..It will be hard for any new manager to make real progress with this lack of knowledge and experience at the highest level. Hopefully in the long term, sucess can be achieved despite them .

[killie-hibby]

Bound to have been some sort of discussion re what if we decide to sack Jack however would have hoped that a new guy was ready to come in. If that isn't the case hopefully they are now moving heaven and earth to start somebody soon.

Alternatively, RG or another came to the conclusion that the players no longer responded to JR's instructions and his immediate removal would be necessary.

[scoopyboy]

I appreciate that you are well connected to the on goings at the club but you can't possibly know that there isn't a succession plan unless you've spoke directly with RG, his laddie or BK directly.

Who ever the player is that feeds you your info will not and should not be privvy to the plans in appointing a new manager.

I haven't spoken directly to any of the three so I have no direct knowledge as you say.

I never said it was a player but time will tell.

David Gray in charge for the forseeable future does not make me feel either that a person has been appointed or even identified or approached.

[nlandsafchibee]

Alternatively, RG or another came to the conclusion that the players no longer responded to JR's instructions and his immediate removal would be necessary.

As Sir Alec Ferguson said ..its not the Manager goes its the players. Its them that missed chances ,made reckless challenges lost discipline .Read Joe Newells comments that they were to blame .

[hibee-boys]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

I hear a lot about our club having some mystical succession plan in place for the ‘what if’ scenarios. I’ve no doubt that our recruitment team build a rolling portfolio of targets for certain positions, that would be a fairly crucial part of their job I would suggest. However, if that was in place what the heck happened in the summer!

I find it more bizarre that people would assume that there is some definitive go to plan in the event of losing a manager, how on earth does that work? It’s not rocket science, we’ve won 4 points out of 27, the clubs hand was forced irrespective of whether a manager was ready to step in, whatever managers are suitable and available now, or with reasonable compensation, will be considered for the position.

[MikeyS]

I haven't spoken directly to any of the three so I have no direct knowledge as you say.

I never said it was a player but time will tell.

David Gray in charge for the forseeable future does not make me feel either that a person has been appointed or even identified or approached.

Appreciate the response mate, and I hope I didn't come across as flippant just find it hard to take that we have no plans what so ever. Emotions will be running high down at Eat Mains and things get said to save face/release steam etc. Hopefully this is the case and the plan has just taken a day or 2 to get in to place.

[JimBHibees]

That’s because I was happy before they sacked Ross - simple! That’s why I posted on this thread to give my opinion - I’m allowed my opinion as a reader and usual non poster all the same am I not- it’s something I feel strongly about. I suppose you feel the opposite and are happy he’s sacked - which is your decision.

Of course you are allowed an opinion just think it a bit odd your intimate knowledge of the club and hot opinions which you have kept to yourself until now. Not sure if it is the right decision however the form of the team was atrocious. Wouldn't have sacked him at this moment but can understand why the bosses did. Hopefully someone is in soon.

[JimBHibees]

I am in your corner and what is more worrying as you make the point.. Kensell A very poor appointment by Ron.So now at the top of the tree you have Ron and son and Kensell all who have no direct of experience of the football side of a club or Scottish Football or Hibs passion ..It will be hard for any new manager to make real progress with this lack of knowledge and experience at the highest level. Hopefully in the long term, sucess can be achieved despite them .

How as a Sunderland fan can you possibly know this. Sure you still don't want to go to the final?

[Ronniekirk]

I haven't spoken directly to any of the three so I have no direct knowledge as you say.

I never said it was a player but time will tell.

David Gray in charge for the forseeable future does not make me feel either that a person has been appointed or even identified or approached.

Yet the Glasgow press would have us believe John Carver is on a shortlist and is well respected by a few people at the Club
I Never believe anything till confirmed by the Club .But You then have press reports saying Ross indicated to the players the night of Livi defeat he might not be in charge the next day
If that were true ,it suggests he knew the end was near ,and you would have to think the possibility of him being sacked had been discussed R G and Kenwell
So again you would assume there was at least some names banded about between them ,that could be potential replacements



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[StockholmHibs]

Guess we see things differently. I think he’s been a disgrace.

Are you serious mate? Boyle has been our stand out player!
Every other player yes, possibly a disgrace. Certainly not Boyle or Macey.

[scoopyboy]

Appreciate the response mate, and I hope I didn't come across as flippant just find it hard to take that we have no plans what so ever. Emotions will be running high down at Eat Mains and things get said to save face/release steam etc. Hopefully this is the case and the plan has just taken a day or 2 to get in to place.

No problem whatsoever with your post.

Since you replied to me I checked out the BBC website and there is an article that is an interview with Lewis Stevenson. He says that the players feel that Jack Ross should be with them at Hampden and they are pretty unhappy about it, ties in with what I was told.

Jack Ross was man enough to speak to the players and thank them, respect to him for that and it's a fair bet that's where the tears came from.

As I said earlier I felt it better there was a parting of the ways but I can't bring myself around to disliking Jack Ross.

[MikeyS]

Of course you are allowed an opinion just think it a bit odd your intimate knowledge of the club and hot opinions which you have kept to yourself until now. Not sure if it is the right decision however the form of the team was atrocious. Wouldn't have sacked him at this moment but can understand why the bosses did. Hopefully someone is in soon.

Happens every time there is an incident at the club Jim 🤦🏻*♂️

A raft of either new accounts or ones that have lay stagnant for ages reappear with all the answers and info!

Its a strange character trait needing to appear to be in the know.

[scoopyboy]

Yet the Glasgow press would have us believe John Carver is on a shortlist and is well respected by a few people at the Club
I Never believe anything till confirmed by the Club .But You then have press reports saying Ross indicated to the players the night of Livi defeat he might not be in charge the next day
If that were true ,it suggests he knew the end was near ,and you would have to think the possibility of him being sacked had been discussed R G and Kenwell
So again you would assume there was at least some names banded about between them ,that could be potential replacements



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was Ron Gordon's decision.

Do you think he could pick or even suggest a new manager with his knowledge?

[MikeyS]

No problem whatsoever with your post.

Since you replied to me I checked out the BBC website and there is an article that is an interview with Lewis Stevenson. He says that the players feel that Jack Ross should be with them at Hampden and they are pretty unhappy about it, ties in with what I was told.

Jack Ross was man enough to speak to the players and thank them, respect to him for that and it's a fair bet that's where the tears came from.

As I said earlier I felt it better there was a parting of the ways but I can't bring myself around to disliking Jack Ross.

I didn't expect to hear any different regarding how JR has conducted himself about the decision. It clearly wasn't working for him and I can't argue with the sacking but I certainly don't dislike him. He seems an honest man and will have made great connections with his players.

[onfire]

Of course you are allowed an opinion just think it a bit odd your intimate knowledge of the club and hot opinions which you have kept to yourself until now. Not sure if it is the right decision however the form of the team was atrocious. Wouldn't have sacked him at this moment but can understand why the bosses did. Hopefully someone is in soon.

It was a flippant comment about kensell - but apart from
Sacking jack - what has he done - I don’t know. I’ve lost trust in ron didn’t see him in this light. I was brought up to give people a fair chance and don’t think this has happened to jack - like you hope we get a new manger and a good one soon.

[IncredibleHibee]

I've had a bit of time to consider Ross' sacking and how I feel about. I was unsure to be honest until today. I think it is at the very least premature and I am a bit disappointed he has gone to be honest.

Now, I fully appreciate numbers don't lie and 4 points in 27 (or whatever it is) is definitely a sackable offence so I don't have a leg to stand on there. I just feel, for whatever reason, that Ross was a good manager that he would have continued to take us forward/make progress in the long run.

I am certainly disappointed he wont be the manager for the final and I had thought he would have been given until the end of the season to turn things around. If he did not by that point then there would have been a decision to be made.

I just have a feeling in my stomach that letting him go wasn't the right thing to do.

[Not In The Know]

It was a flippant comment about kensell - but apart from
Sacking jack - what has he done - I don’t know. I’ve lost trust in ron didn’t see him in this light. I was brought up to give people a fair chance and don’t think this has happened to jack - like you hope we get a new manger and a good one soon.

Are you giving Ron a fair chance?

[worcesterhibby]

Wrong Decision......depends entirely on who he brings in...time will tell.

at the end of the day that's the only answer you can really give.

[JimBHibees]

Are you giving Ron a fair chance?

Or Ben clearly not.

[JimBHibees]

No problem whatsoever with your post.

Since you replied to me I checked out the BBC website and there is an article that is an interview with Lewis Stevenson. He says that the players feel that Jack Ross should be with them at Hampden and they are pretty unhappy about it, ties in with what I was told.

Jack Ross was man enough to speak to the players and thank them, respect to him for that and it's a fair bet that's where the tears came from.

As I said earlier I felt it better there was a parting of the ways but I can't bring myself around to disliking Jack Ross.

Yep all seems a sad way to end it but decent thing to do by Jack. The players were fundamentally the people who got him the sack with some rank bad performances but can clearly see where Lewis is coming from.

[Not In The Know]

It was Ron Gordon's decision.

Do you think he could pick or even suggest a new manager with his knowledge?

It looks like Ron is ruthless but not in a scattergun way. People have in his eyes not performed so they have been let go. He wants hibs to perform at as high a level as possible and if he thinks he can implement change to do that, maybe he can.

You just dont know how his approach to hiring the next manager will go. He may for example say ok i'll advance funds so we can pay the salary of someone out of our previous budget, as he sees that as a long term investment.

I remember but cant quote it a reporter asking Ross about his relationship with Gordon a few months after he'd bought the club, he'd said they golfed a few times etc BUT i got the feeling Ross knew Ron was never going to be his buddy.

[onfire]

Or Ben clearly not.

I’m
Giving you a chance to tell me
What he’s done😀

[onfire]

Are you giving Ron a fair chance?

I’m not calling for his head! Or demanding a new owner!

[Not In The Know]

Yep all seems a sad way to end it but decent thing to do by Jack. The players were fundamentally the people who got him the sack with some rank bad performances but can clearly see where Lewis is coming from.

Players like Nisbet, Newell, Hanlon, Murphy, need to take a long hard look at their self this season.

[PolmontHibby]

Having had a wee while to think about it all (and a look at that list of replacements!), I firmly believe that getting rid of JR when we did is the wrong decision and actually timing wise quite baffling.

It's not strategic, cos we don't have anyone lined up.

It's not needed, cos in what is a highly competitive league, we could have turned it around very quickly esp with a window.

It's awful timing, a week out from a cup final??

It's not warranted, statistically our best manager of the last decade.

Feels knee jerk and reeks of pandering to the fans. Doing something because you don't have the balls to standby and weather the storm

I believe we've cut off our nose despite our face and I am willing to place Ten Scottish pounds on us being in a worse state this time next year

Shortermism at its finest.

My opinion btw, not saying other opinions are any more or less valid as mine.

I disagree with one point, I would state the case that prior to the poor run that started 2 months ago JR had as good a results record for any manager since the 1960s (bar Stubbs, though his games were in lower league),

If every Hibs manager is going to be booted by Gordon for 2 bad months best of luck to whoever from the list of uninspiring and unemployed candidates being mentioned gets the job.

[Ronniekirk]

It was Ron Gordon's decision.

Do you think he could pick or even suggest a new manager with his knowledge?

Not saying he could but Carver seems such a random punt from the press Had to look up who he was lol
But time will tell if he ends up on any short list
I have no idea what’s gone on mate just think it would be human nature fir Ron and Chief Executive to have had some sort of preliminary discussion
Are you saying Ron only made the decision that night himself and no one else knew ,so no discussions about any possible replacement



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[onfire]

Players like Nisbet, Newell, Hanlon, Murphy, need to take a long hard look at their self this season.

Are you giving these players a chance - football coach as well 😀😂

[The Modfather]

I often think our fans are the most delusional in the UK. There is an expectation that we have to play like 1970's Brazil or the mythical "Hibs way" amongst a large part of our fanbase. Any manager has their work cut out here to satisfy the fans. Give me boring 1-0 wins every week.

Is there not a more constructive way to make your point, that results are the most important factor for you. Which is fair enough. Making obtuse points about 1970s Brazil and calling those you don’t agree with delusional isn’t debating it’s just shouting loudest. The performance and enjoyment is my main driver for going to the football. I’d sacrifice a league place or two for a more enjoyable experience than “boring 1-0 wins”.

[jacomo]

Did you enjoy Jack's boring negative brand of football sideways backwards hoof .


We’re in a cup final next week. Last time we played at Hampden turned out alright…

I get the criticism but we’ve taken a massive gamble here.

[jeffers]

Is there not a more constructive way to make your point, that results are the most important factor for you. Which is fair enough. Making obtuse points about 1970s Brazil and calling those you don’t agree with delusional isn’t debating it’s just shouting loudest. The performance and enjoyment is my main driver for going to the football. I’d sacrifice a league place or two for a more enjoyable experience than “boring 1-0 wins”.

It’s total bs. I’d like us to play like we did in that spell under Lennon. Can something like that not be achieved again or does that make me delusional ? Even chat about football moving on, it’s more tactical and less swashbuckling may well be true but it was only 3 years ago Lennon had us playing that way.

[onfire]

Happens every time there is an incident at the club Jim 🤦🏻*♂️

A raft of either new accounts or ones that have lay stagnant for ages reappear with all the answers and info!

Its a strange character trait needing to appear to be in the know.

The same or different character trait of rounding on an opinion that doesn’t meet your own just because. They don’t post much but do when it’s a major decision they don’t agree with under the trtead - wrong decision? - no wonder the silent majority don’t post 🥸

[Dalianwanda]

I’m
Giving you a chance to tell me
What he’s done😀

It’s a lot easier to see what a manager is or isn’t doing. Apart from new contracts, swift removal of manager & dof (or what ever the title was), new academy boss what would you expect to see?

[Callum_62]

Steve Kean James McPake dream team [emoji106]

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[marinello59]

Steve Kean James McPake dream team [emoji106]

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More of a nightmare. :greengrin

[onfire]

It’s a lot easier to see what a manager is or isn’t doing. Apart from new contracts, swift removal of manager & dof (or what ever the title was), new academy boss what would you expect to see?

Cheers Ben

[Rumble de Thump]

The same or different character trait of rounding on an opinion that doesn’t meet your own just because. They don’t post much but do when it’s a major decision they don’t agree with under the trtead - wrong decision? - no wonder the silent majority don’t post 🥸

You sound like a Jambo based on what you say and how you say it. Not because you have a particular 'opinion'.

[onfire]

Cheers Ben

And great you have jack a new contract a few months ago just to bin him🧐

[Dalianwanda]

Cheers Ben

What’s the point in asking a question if when your get a response all you can do is give a smart arsed response?

[Magpie]

It’s a shame it didn’t work out for him but I think RG has made the correct decision. I think he’s definitely got the clubs best interests at mind on this one. JR has been struggling to get the best out of the players we currently have in the last few months, more red cards than goals in our last nine league games, there aren’t many managers who get away with our run of form being the third best team in the country, especially following a season of frustration from not achieving success against the teams we played in the cups. We will make signings in January and Ron has evidently decided a new manager deserves to have that window to help us achieve our goals this season.

[onfire]

You sound like a Jambo based on what you say and how you say it. Not because you have a particular 'opinion'.

Heard it all now! No I’m not. That’s why I’m posting on a bad decision thread! I’ve given my reasons for keeping jack that are all positive. You sound like non attending fan

[blackpoolhibs]

Don't really want to start a new thread so will just add to this one.

The instruction from Ron Gordon yesterday was simply to sack Jack Ross.

No succession plan or a target to go directly for.

Grown men in tears at East Mains over the axing.

I stupidly thought that the matter had been discussed and that the next manager would be appointed very quickly after the dismissal.

A week ago I would have kept Jack Ross but after the other night I suspected he would be away and yesterday morning I had changed to it's probably for the best.

I cannot believe that a succession plan wasn't in place. If I owned Hibs I would be able to tell you right away who I would go for. If your manager is a roaring success somebody will come in and grab him or if he is a flop then you have to get rid of. My choice might change from time to time but I would always have somebody in mind.

I think this could end up a disaster, hopefully I'm wrong.

I like the information you bring to this site Scoopy, just a couple of things i think you may have wrong hopefully.

It appears from what's been said, Ross could have been sacked a few weeks ago, and The club had been looking behind the scenes for his successor if you believe what some are saying?:dunno:

[onfire]

What’s the point in asking a question if when your get a response all you can do is give a smart arsed response?

Ok maybe because all I’ve had since posting - and now wish I hadn’t - is a list of people saying I shouldn’t have posted as I don’t normally

[Rumble de Thump]

Heard it all now! No I’m not. That’s why I’m posting on a bad decision thread! I’ve given my reasons for keeping jack that are all positive. You sound like non attending fan

You need to be at least a wee bit subtle.

[jeffers]

You need to be at least a wee bit subtle.

onfire isn’t a Jambo, definitely a Hibby. We often disagree, but I can vouch for him as a regular attendee at ER.

[Dalianwanda]

Ok maybe because all I’ve had since posting - and now wish I hadn’t - is a list of people saying I shouldn’t have posted as I don’t normally

So you bite on mine…Ive not read the whole thread so can’t comment on what you’ve posted. As i say i responded and asked for clarity. Now you’ve moved into poor me mode.

[onfire]

You need to be at least a wee bit subtle.

Agh - don’t agree with you - you must be a Jambo. I’m
Not but I’m not going to be able to persuade you.

I just wanted to express my disappointment at jack being sacked - that I thought Ron had long term plans for jack and that we were heading in the right direction. I don’t normally post and honestly wish I hadn’t.

[Since452]

https://twitter.com/BBCSportScot/status/1469368305869889552?s=20

Lewis Stevenson sounds absolutely gutted

[onfire]

So you bite on mine…Ive not read the whole thread so can’t comment on what you’ve posted. As i say i responded and asked for clarity. Now you’ve moved into poor me mode.

You know what - you are right and I apologise -
Think I was on defence mode! Sorry.

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1469317753282699272?t=_IhMLc_1tfjJFjFvhhSRng&s=19

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[Libby Hibby]

Wrong decision my erchie. We have lost to 2 teams in the bottom 4 recently. We play the other half of the bottom 4 in the next 5 days. The hibs we know should have picked up 6 points from Ross county and Livingston away. Instead we picked up an embarrassing zero points. Only Livingstons 2nd home win in the league this season.

3 bottled games at Hampden blew the chance of trophies for us, the same tactics v st Johnstone both times as well. The same tactics against rangers recently. Far too predictable, give the ball to Boyle and get him to run with it. Teams double up on him now, he was ineffective on Wednesday because of this. We are so far behind hearts and third place we need binoculars to see them.

Jack Ross couldn’t change a game in our favour. His tactics were poor. His subs were questionable and often far too late in a game to have any effect. Terrible recruitment in the summer window too. Overloaded with midfielders, not very good ones at that - see Drey Wright and Gogic. We were sleep walking towards relegation with him in charge. Definitely not the wrong decision.

I’m genuinely shocked, I agree with every word

[Iain G]

https://twitter.com/BBCSportScot/status/1469368305869889552?s=20

Lewis Stevenson sounds absolutely gutted

I think he is right and Jack should have been given until the final.

We now risk going into a winable final in 9 days time with David Gray in charge or a new manager coming in a handful of days in advance....I think the club have been short sighted here if they don't already have someone coming in by Monday.

[scoopyboy]

I like the information you bring to this site Scoopy, just a couple of things i think you may have wrong hopefully.

It appears from what's been said, Ross could have been sacked a few weeks ago, and The club had been looking behind the scenes for his successor if you believe what some are saying?:dunno:

If there is a succession plan then I would expect things to happen quickly.

Hibs won't pay compensation to another club IMHO so the identified target should be able to brought in without delay.

Where is he?

[Hermit Crab]

I’m genuinely shocked, I agree with every word


I can debate well when I need to. :greengrin

[nlandsafchibee]

How as a Sunderland fan can you possibly know this. Sure you still don't want to go to the final?

Jim. Yes I have a 50 plus year support of SAFC however I became a Hibbee when JR came here .Why because my wife and I believed in him after he had done a brilliant job there ,again in difficult conditions.Before I came more commited I got the feel for the club and liked what I read about Ms Dempster and Graham Mathie and the Chairmans talk of a need for stabilty and then doing many good things.It gave us a good feel .Over the last 2 years in various ways we have spent 2k on every area of support ( anyone wanting free once worn 2 hibs xmas jumpers apply here ) and nil at SAFC.
My opinion is based on the facts I have researched and executive experience and knowledge of and contacts in the running of Major clubs both in my job and retirement so its nothing to do with SAFC and of course I believe a pretty informed opinion.

[B.H.F.C]

If there is a succession plan then I would expect things to happen quickly.

Hibs won't pay compensation to another club IMHO so the identified target should be able to brought in without delay.

Where is he?

Dempster and George Craig always spoke about succession planning but I don’t think we ever appointed a manager instantly in their time (and I don’t think any that were appointed were at another club at the time).

[scoopyboy]

Dempster and George Craig always spoke about succession planning but I don’t think we ever appointed a manager instantly in their time (and I don’t think any that were appointed were at another club at the time).

Good point.

Stubbs and Lennon were appointed close season so there was no real rush.

Ross was certainly a free agent and was appointed during the season and can't remember if Heckingbottom was at another club or not.

[Dalianwanda]

You know what - you are right and I apologise -
Think I was on defence mode! Sorry.
no worries, accepted 👍👍

[hibbydog]

Great point and interesting thread.

History shows that changing the manager might give you a wee bounce for a month or so, but you’ll end up where you were before hand.

It’s the reason we keep sacking managers every couple of years, with a circular pattern and no sustained improvement.

The answer?

If you want to improve the results over a long period of time then change the budget, not the manager.

That means sustainable investment in the playing squad.

Without this, same old same old

[B.H.F.C]

Good point.

Stubbs and Lennon were appointed close season so there was no real rush.

Ross was certainly a free agent and was appointed during the season and can't remember if Heckingbottom was at another club or not.

Think Hecky was a free agent and if I remember rightly, we had two or three games under Eddie May after Lennon left (first one away to St Mirren ironically).

Ross we only had one game under May but I think it still went on a good 10 days or so.

I do agree though, after initially thinking we’d have someone in quick, that Gray will be in charge for a good few games.

[Callum_62]

If there is a succession plan then I would expect things to happen quickly.

Hibs won't pay compensation to another club IMHO so the identified target should be able to brought in without delay.

Where is he?Or she [emoji3]

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[scoopyboy]

Or she [emoji3]

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Happy to bet on that:greengrin

[brianmc]

I think Jack Ross is an intelligent, articulate, likeable man BUT.....

I think he got really, really lucky that there were no fans at games last season.

Why, you ask - Our home record last season was ****, there's no other way to describe it. Had the HOME games been played on front of fans he'd have been under serious pressure and possibly hounded out long before the end of the League campaign!

(That's without including our dismal, meek Hampden surrenders x3)

This season so far we've picked up a meagre 11 points from the 24 available at home (45%)
Last season (which most seem to remember as great) was even worse.
24 points from a possible 57 (42%).

Yes, last season we had a fantastic away record, and there's no doubt that (added to no fans at ER) was the reason the season as a whole was deemed a 'success' by a lot of observers: despite the rubbish football, rubbish home form and Hampden embarrassments.


This season the continued poor home results, dull football, the ever increasing numbers of season ticket holders not prepared to turn up to suffer the above, abysmal and reluctant use of substitutes, insistence on picking his favourites regardless of their performances or effort have ultimately done for Jack.

Whilst I continue to think of him as an intelligent, articulate and likeable man let's not kid ourselves that he hasn't been given ample time to turn things around or that a parting of the ways wasn't inevitable.

Make no mistake, the current run we are on is relegation form.

The longer these things go the harder it is to turn around.

HOPEFULLY the new man comes in and turns things round and we can actually look forward to going to ER (*Covid permitting) again.

GGTTH

[lord bunberry]

The same or different character trait of rounding on an opinion that doesn’t meet your own just because. They don’t post much but do when it’s a major decision they don’t agree with under the trtead - wrong decision? - no wonder the silent majority don’t post 🥸
We’ll said. You haven’t said anything ridiculous to warrant the reaction you’ve had. How many posts you’ve made is irrelevant and doesn’t make your opinion less valid.

[bigwheel]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.

This is exactly how I feel….couldn’t have put it better.


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[ekhibee]

Great point and interesting thread.

History shows that changing the manager might give you a wee bounce for a month or so, but you’ll end up where you were before hand.

It’s the reason we keep sacking managers every couple of years, with a circular pattern and no sustained improvement.

The answer?

If you want to improve the results over a long period of time then change the budget, not the manager.

That means sustainable investment in the playing squad.

Without this, same old same old

Really interesting what you're saying there and when I read it first I couldn't really argue with it at all. But the reality is that often when you give managers that are used to working with a tight budget loads of cash it often doesn't work. You just have to look at all the prominent Scottish managers who have tried their hand down south and failed. They were all given substantially more money than they had to work with up here but for 1 reason or another it didn't work for them.

[B.H.F.C]

I think Jack Ross is an intelligent, articulate, likeable man BUT.....

I think he got really, really lucky that there were no fans at games last season.

Why, you ask - Our home record last season was ****, there's no other way to describe it. Had the HOME games been played on front of fans he'd have been under serious pressure and possibly hounded out long before the end of the League campaign!

(That's without including our dismal, meek Hampden surrenders x3)

This season so far we've picked up a meagre 11 points from the 24 available at home (45%)
Last season (which most seem to remember as great) was even worse.
24 points from a possible 57 (42%).

Yes, last season we had a fantastic away record, and there's no doubt that (added to no fans at ER) was the reason the season as a whole was deemed a 'success' by a lot of observers: despite the rubbish football, rubbish home form and Hampden embarrassments.


This season the continued poor home results, dull football, the ever increasing numbers of season ticket holders not prepared to turn up to suffer the above, abysmal and reluctant use of substitutes, insistence on picking his favourites regardless of their performances or effort have ultimately done for Jack.

Whilst I continue to think of him as an intelligent, articulate and likeable man let's not kid ourselves that he hasn't been given ample time to turn things around or that a parting of the ways wasn't inevitable.

Make no mistake, the current run we are on is relegation form.

The longer these things go the harder it is to turn around.

HOPEFULLY the new man comes in and turns things round and we can actually look forward to going to ER (*Covid permitting) again.

GGTTH

Some good points in there.

It might not turn out to be the best decision ever made (time will tell) but when you look at the form, the attendances and the fairly frequent horror shows throughout his time, I just can’t see how it’s being made out by some to potentially be one of the worst we’ve ever made.

[madhatter]

For me this is up there with the worst decisions if not the worse decision we have made as a club. Jack was let down by player recruitment- which had been acknowledged by all. He has been unlucky with players out injured and having such a small squad he couldn’t rest players that needed rtested or rotated. We had covid games cancelled then rearranged so games have been played every 3 days - no time to rest or get on the training pitch. We haven’t lost being pumped ever with jack in charge - if we lose it’s usually by the odd goal with usually us having chances to draw at worst. He got us to 4/4 semis and 2/4 finals - 3rd in league in only full season - he’s improving young players and players already at the club. We were told jack was there long term and we are building fur the future - hence 2 summer signings coming in January. Bar a contentious decision against rangers re Porto could have been right up there! There can’t be another manager in our history who’s done all this at hibs but sacked! Just incredible!!

Ben kensell - what has he contributed apart from sacking jack

I’ll still go to the games but have lost trust in ron and his crew.

Buy the club off Ron and his crew then. This narrative of its everyone else's fault at the club apart from Jack Ross is getting silly now.

Graeme Mathie to begin with and now just a scattergun approach...

I support Hibs. Do you support Jack Ross?

The man himself said the results in the recent run are nowhere near good enough for Hibs.

[Saint Hibee]

It was 100% the correct decision. The only direction we were heading in was downwards. Yes, there were injuries and suspensions to key players, but what manager doesn't face those? At the end of the day, contrary to what Bobby Williamson said, football IS about entertainment - there was none of that with Ross. I'm relieved he's gone.

[The 90+2]

Buy the club off Ron and his crew then. This narrative of its everyone else's fault at the club apart from Jack Ross is getting silly now.

Graeme Mathie to begin with and now just a scattergun approach...

I support Hibs. Do you support Jack Ross?

The man himself said the results in the recent run are nowhere near good enough for Hibs.

People should start supporting the club/manager/team then instead of the constant moaning of *****.

For god sake, we finished third last year and it wasn't good enough because of the cups, (which I get)

What if we punched last season and the squad isn't as good as everyone says?

Maybe Josh Doig isn't worth the £3-5m some spuds including some of the club tried to flog him for? Maybe Nisbet isn't £3m? It's hardly his fault is it? Boy came from the league below, had a great season now gets ripped for not being up to the valuation placed on him. Did he place it on himself like?

Now we have a situation where Jack Ross wasn't good enough and sacked. Nobody has a clue who to replace him with though or nobody has a clue if sacking him will make us in fact even worse? It's absolutely ridiculous.

"Ah spend ma season ticket money for this and that" I thought it was spent to erm follow the hibs and back them through thick and thin, including the manager.

It seems, for some reason, some couldn't take to Jack. And through "***** football" to "cup final" to whatever. Always an excuse to slate a guy that took us from relegation form to 3rd.

Be careful what you wish for because I would have only have agreed with this in any kind of way if there was a successor planned for when Jack left, good or bad. But this is Hibs now. Even our twitter have been replaced by utter shan. It wouldn't surprise me if they told Barrie to leave announcing or Kieran to leave representing us and replaced them with a couple of Temps who know **** all about football.

[The 90+2]

It was 100% the correct decision. The only direction we were heading in was downwards. Yes, there were injuries and suspensions to key players, but what manager doesn't face those? At the end of the day, contrary to what Bobby Williamson said, football IS about entertainment - there was none of that with Ross. I'm relieved he's gone.


St Johnstone should just go **** it and sack Davidson now too. Out a cup they won and bottom six now. Or maybe they have a grip of perspective.

[lord bunberry]

People should start supporting the club/manager/team then instead of the constant moaning of *****.

For god sake, we finished third last year and it wasn't good enough because of the cups, (which I get)

What if we punched last season and the squad isn't as good as everyone says?

Maybe Josh Doig isn't worth the £3-5m some spuds including some of the club tried to flog him for? Maybe Nisbet isn't £3m? It's hardly his fault is it? Boy came from the league below, had a great season now gets ripped for not being up to the valuation placed on him. Did he place it on himself like?

Now we have a situation where Jack Ross wasn't good enough and sacked. Nobody has a clue who to replace him with though or nobody has a clue if sacking him will make us in fact even worse? It's absolutely ridiculous.

"Ah spend ma season ticket money for this and that" I thought it was spent to erm follow the hibs and back them through thick and thin, including the manager.

It seems, for some reason, some couldn't take to Jack. And through "***** football" to "cup final" to whatever. Always an excuse to slate a guy that took us from relegation form to 3rd.

Be careful what you wish for because I would have only have agreed with this in any kind of way if there was a successor planned for when Jack left, good or bad. But this is Hibs now. Even our twitter have been replaced by utter shan. It wouldn't surprise me if they told Barrie to leave announcing or Kieran to leave representing us and replaced them with a couple of Temps who know **** all about football.
****in nailed it mate :top marks

[MikeyS]

People should start supporting the club/manager/team then instead of the constant moaning of *****.

For god sake, we finished third last year and it wasn't good enough because of the cups, (which I get)

What if we punched last season and the squad isn't as good as everyone says?

Maybe Josh Doig isn't worth the £3-5m some spuds including some of the club tried to flog him for? Maybe Nisbet isn't £3m? It's hardly his fault is it? Boy came from the league below, had a great season now gets ripped for not being up to the valuation placed on him. Did he place it on himself like?

Now we have a situation where Jack Ross wasn't good enough and sacked. Nobody has a clue who to replace him with though or nobody has a clue if sacking him will make us in fact even worse? It's absolutely ridiculous.

"Ah spend ma season ticket money for this and that" I thought it was spent to erm follow the hibs and back them through thick and thin, including the manager.

It seems, for some reason, some couldn't take to Jack. And through "***** football" to "cup final" to whatever. Always an excuse to slate a guy that took us from relegation form to 3rd.

Be careful what you wish for because I would have only have agreed with this in any kind of way if there was a successor planned for when Jack left, good or bad. But this is Hibs now. Even our twitter have been replaced by utter shan. It wouldn't surprise me if they told Barrie to leave announcing or Kieran to leave representing us and replaced them with a couple of Temps who know **** all about football.

Dramatic much??

Who says we haven't a plan in place, are you expecting the club to come out and say we have X interviewing tomorrow at 2pm, Y meeting on Sunday and we are flying out to meet Z on Monday at his home.

The panic on here is getting worse by the minute, there aren't many clubs that sack a manager and have someone waiting in the car park to walk right in to the last guys tracksuit! We all need to now support the club more than ever and trust the guys in the top jobs are doing their bit and planning for the future.

[madhatter]

People should start supporting the club/manager/team then instead of the constant moaning of *****.

For god sake, we finished third last year and it wasn't good enough because of the cups, (which I get)

What if we punched last season and the squad isn't as good as everyone says?

Maybe Josh Doig isn't worth the £3-5m some spuds including some of the club tried to flog him for? Maybe Nisbet isn't £3m? It's hardly his fault is it? Boy came from the league below, had a great season now gets ripped for not being up to the valuation placed on him. Did he place it on himself like?

Now we have a situation where Jack Ross wasn't good enough and sacked. Nobody has a clue who to replace him with though or nobody has a clue if sacking him will make us in fact even worse? It's absolutely ridiculous.

"Ah spend ma season ticket money for this and that" I thought it was spent to erm follow the hibs and back them through thick and thin, including the manager.

It seems, for some reason, some couldn't take to Jack. And through "***** football" to "cup final" to whatever. Always an excuse to slate a guy that took us from relegation form to 3rd.

Let's all stop supporting Hibs then. How much are the Jack Ross season tickets?

Hyperbole to the extreme here. Jack Ross said himself that we are entitled our opinions.

I wasn't at Livi and didn't sing "Sacked in the morning". I didn't like Jack Ross football. Maybe that's wrong but that's it. I still bought my ST for this year when I could've spent that elsewhere.

Sometimes get the impression people would rather Hibs had 4-5k uber supportive fans and then the rest stopped paying for STs and turning up.

Support through everything? Is everyone living in the past, think need introduced to modern football.

[MikeyS]

Let's all stop supporting Hibs then. How much are the Jack Ross season tickets?

Hyperbole to the extreme here. Jack Ross said himself that we are entitled our opinions.

I wasn't at Livi and didn't sing "Sacked in the morning". I didn't like Jack Ross football. Maybe that's wrong but that's it. I still bought my ST for this year when I could've spent that elsewhere.

Sometimes get the impression people would rather Hibs had 4-5k uber supportive fans and then the rest stopped paying for STs and turning up.

Support through everything? Is everyone living in the past, think need introduced to modern football.

To quote a poster above, "nailed it!" 👏🏻

[Not In The Know]

Are you giving these players a chance - football coach as well 😀😂

Eh?