Council Tax

[Since90+2]

Just announced in the Holyrood budget that the freeze on Council Tax and Councils will have full freedom to set rates from next year.

I wonder what we will be looking at for Edinburgh? Let's hope the additional money is spent on things residents actually need rather than more ridiculous cycle lanes a miniscule number of people actually use.

[Ozyhibby]

Just announced in the Holyrood budget that the freeze on Council Tax and Councils will have full freedom to set rates from next year.

I wonder what we will be looking at for Edinburgh? Let's hope the additional money is spent on things residents actually need rather than more ridiculous cycle lanes a miniscule number of people actually use.

Local elections next year so might be the year after we see rises.


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[SHODAN]

If the extra money is spent on fixing the west Fife potholes then I'll be happy enough.

[SauzeesLeftBoot]

Perhaps the idea is to encourage more people to use them, thus reducing carbon emissions and promoting healthier lifestyles and environment?


If people spent less time losing their heads in their cars over these lanes and took the 5-10 minute cycle ride to get to their destination only a few miles away instead, they'd likely feel a lot better about themselves and less bitter towards those who are already doing it.

[Since90+2]

Perhaps the idea is to encourage more people to use them, thus reducing carbon emissions and promoting healthier lifestyles and environment?


If people spent less time losing their heads in their cars over these lanes and took the 5-10 minute cycle ride to get to their destination only a few miles away instead, they'd likely feel a lot better about themselves and less bitter towards those who are already doing it.

I don't drive and tend to walk atleast 5 miles a day so that's not the case for myself.

The issue with these cycle lanes is it's rather silly to think you can simply pop some bollards onto a road and that will encourage people to cycle. That's just daft and won't work. I'd suggest anyone who believes that is rather naïve.

Edinburgh is a very old city and in places just simply doesn't have enough road space to accommodate cycle lanes,cars,buses and trams. That's just a fact, we can't magically make roads wider in the majority of areas.

What they should be doing is designing a fully integrated and electric subsided public service transport system that encourages more people to take buses/trams which will reduce cars on the roads and emissions.

That is far more likely to get public support than sticking bollards on main arterial roads and thinking that's going to make your average worker suddenly start cycling in rain, wind and snow.

[McD]

Perhaps the idea is to encourage more people to use them, thus reducing carbon emissions and promoting healthier lifestyles and environment?


If people spent less time losing their heads in their cars over these lanes and took the 5-10 minute cycle ride to get to their destination only a few miles away instead, they'd likely feel a lot better about themselves and less bitter towards those who are already doing it.


cracking - what’s your casually-thrown-out-there solutions for:

- people who aren’t able to cycle, or don’t feel safe behind plastic sticks as buses and lorries go past
- journeys greater than ‘only a few miles’
- journeys that take longer than ‘5-10 minutes’
- what if they don’t feel better about themselves
- people who need to carry a significant load to their destination


your thoughts are admirable, but it’s quite patronising to just tell people to start cycling places and their ills will disappear

[McD]

I don't drive myself and tend to walk atleast 5 miles a day so that's not the case for myself.

The issue with these cycle lanes is it's rather silly to think you can simply pop some bollards onto a road and that will encourage people to cycle. That's just daft and won't work. I'd suggest anyone who believes that is rather naïve.

Edinburgh is a very old city and in places just simply doesn't have enough road space to accommodate cycle lanes,cars,buses and trams. That's just a fact, we can't magically make road wider in the majority of areas.

What they should be doing is designing a fully integrated and electric subsided public service transport system that encourages more people to take buses/trams which will reduce cars on the roads and emissions.

That is far more likely to get public support than sticking bollards on main arterial roads and thinking that's going to make your average worker suddenly start cycling in rain, wind and snow.

this :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Cycle lanes aren't the problem in themselves. It's the cheap, crap and often unsafe cycle lanes we have been landed with that are the issue.

Re council tax in general. Maybe we'll get a serious discussion about a fairer alternative sometime soon. Or another populist freeze that disproportionately benefits the wealthy in a couple of years. Could go either way.

[lord bunberry]

Perhaps the idea is to encourage more people to use them, thus reducing carbon emissions and promoting healthier lifestyles and environment?


If people spent less time losing their heads in their cars over these lanes and took the 5-10 minute cycle ride to get to their destination only a few miles away instead, they'd likely feel a lot better about themselves and less bitter towards those who are already doing it.
Maybe if the council consulted cyclists before they went ahead with these projects they might be able to find a solution that suits everyone. Most cyclists appear to hate a lot of these new cycle lanes and don’t bother using them, they then cycle on the other side of the bollards holding everyone up. I’ve not once seen anyone using that new cycle lane up at the omni centre and it was the same on leith walk. I’ve seen 1 cyclist use the new one at piershill. I’ve no problem with cyclists although I do wonder why they often seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to other road users.

[lord bunberry]

Local elections next year so might be the year after we see rises.


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With any luck the current incumbents won’t be seeing a penny of any money generated. I’ve never voted anyone other the snp, but there’s no way I could ever vote for this lot.

[speedy_gonzales]

Maybe if the council consulted cyclists before they went ahead with these projects they might be able to find a solution that suits everyone. Most cyclists appear to hate a lot of these new cycle lanes and don’t bother using them, they then cycle on the other side of the bollards holding everyone up. I’ve not once seen anyone using that new cycle lane up at the omni centre and it was the same on leith walk. I’ve seen 1 cyclist use the new one at piershill.

Is the path outside the Omni even open, always seemed to have signage in the middle saying it was closed to cyclists when I walked to/from ER?!?



I’ve no problem with cyclists although I do wonder why they often seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to other road users.
I'm not sure "chip" is the correct language, a bit emotive, but when you're just trying to get from A to B like everyone else on the road, but some/a few other road users who you share the carriageway with are completely ignorant of your presence and as a consequence, when they carry out a manoeuvre that puts your life at risk. That can certainly get your hackles up.
I've seen drivers get out their cars and throw punches at each other just because one had the temerity to change lanes unsignalled at a set of traffic lights, but a poor driver executes a dodgy move that has the potential to harm a vulnerable road user and we're surprised that the cyclist doesn't meekly tug his forelock and ask for forgiveness for being in the way?
I'll happily admit to being on both sides of the argument.
I've been in the car and executed a left turn in slow moving traffic, not seeing the cyclist coming up the inside. The guy was absolutely raging with me and even after I apologised, he still seemed to be fuming as he continued on his merry way.
Another time, I was on my bike in the middle of a lane at Drum Brae roundabout, when a guy drove in to the back of me. I wasn't hurt but the bike was thrown out in front of me, I picked the bike up and asked, fairly calmly what was going on, the motorist said I should have been on the left and just to get on with it. I was still in shock, but when he hit the horn, gave me the finger and belted off towards the old Royal Scot, I don't mind saying I experienced a rage I've never experienced since. It has to be a combination of shock & adrenalin as I don't normally react like that.

[Ozyhibby]

I don’t cycle but I’m totally relaxed about the new cycle lanes and think we need more of them.
I also think people seem to be using them more so that’s good news.


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[hibsbollah]

I drive and cycle, and I like the cycle lanes when I’m using them, it makes the cycle through town much more chilled, and they don’t bother me one bit when I’m driving.

[lapsedhibee]

I drive and cycle, and I like the cycle lanes when I’m using them, it makes the cycle through town much more chilled, and they don’t bother me one bit when I’m driving.

:agree:

[lord bunberry]

Is the path outside the Omni even open, always seemed to have signage in the middle saying it was closed to cyclists when I walked to/from ER?!?


I'm not sure "chip" is the correct language, a bit emotive, but when you're just trying to get from A to B like everyone else on the road, but some/a few other road users who you share the carriageway with are completely ignorant of your presence and as a consequence, when they carry out a manoeuvre that puts your life at risk. That can certainly get your hackles up.
I've seen drivers get out their cars and throw punches at each other just because one had the temerity to change lanes unsignalled at a set of traffic lights, but a poor driver executes a dodgy move that has the potential to harm a vulnerable road user and we're surprised that the cyclist doesn't meekly tug his forelock and ask for forgiveness for being in the way?
I'll happily admit to being on both sides of the argument.
I've been in the car and executed a left turn in slow moving traffic, not seeing the cyclist coming up the inside. The guy was absolutely raging with me and even after I apologised, he still seemed to be fuming as he continued on his merry way.
Another time, I was on my bike in the middle of a lane at Drum Brae roundabout, when a guy drove in to the back of me. I wasn't hurt but the bike was thrown out in front of me, I picked the bike up and asked, fairly calmly what was going on, the motorist said I should have been on the left and just to get on with it. I was still in shock, but when he hit the horn, gave me the finger and belted off towards the old Royal Scot, I don't mind saying I experienced a rage I've never experienced since. It has to be a combination of shock & adrenalin as I don't normally react like that.
Maybe you’re right and it is closed, that would explain why no one is using it :greengrin. I totally get that some drivers are idiots and put cyclists at risk but the majority won’t be. As I said I don’t have a problem with cyclists and whenever possible a solution should be found that makes sharing the road a better and safer experience for everyone.

[Keith_M]

So, Council Tax.....


Some cities/towns are in desperate need of more funds to be able to do fundamental repairs, like the roads and general rundown infrastructure.

The problem is that if they increased the level of council tax, that could be a burden on people that are already struggling with finances so is not going to be a popular decision.

The sad fact is that, no matter the political party, I get the feeling that most of them would prefer to take the decision that is most likely to keep them in power, not the one that would most positively affect the residents.

[Paul1642]

I’m still not even sure how the bands are calculated. I have a family member who lives in a nicer house than me, which cost more to buy than mine did, in a better area and has better local school ext than I do. Yet they are one band cheaper than me….

[Since90+2]

I’m still not even sure how the bands are calculated. I have a family member who lives in a nicer house than me, which cost more to buy than mine did, in a better area and has better local school ext than I do. Yet they are one band cheaper than me….

I've just bought a property that was £60k more expensive than the one we sold yet it's in band B and the previous house was Band C. Bonkers.

[HH81]

My band is E and it's a ridiculous amount.

Why should I have to pay any different to a band A? What extra services do I get? None.

[Ozyhibby]

My band is E and it's a ridiculous amount.

Why should I have to pay any different to a band A? What extra services do I get? None.

You get to live in a society where those with less than you are not taking what you have by force.


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[Since90+2]

You get to live in a society where those with less than you are not taking what you have by force.


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I think that's the issue though, the bands are not really based on who has what in society.

Our home wasn't cheap, even by Edinburgh standards, and yet we have the second lowest banding. The house and area we moved from is far less desirable and cheaper yet that new homeowner pays more than I do.

I'm not complaining on an individual level, nobody wants to pay more tax, I just find the whole system bizarre.

[HH81]

You get to live in a society where those with less than you are not taking what you have by force.


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Some on my street pay less and some pay more. I just don't get it.

I'd say most of the village pays less than our street too.

Seems a big con.

[LaMotta]

I think that's the issue though, the bands are not really based on who has what in society.

Our home wasn't cheap, even by Edinburgh standards, and yet we have the second lowest banding. The house and area we moved from is far less desirable and cheaper yet that new homeowner pays more than I do.

I'm not complaining on an individual level, nobody wants to pay more tax, I just find the whole system bizarre.

I live in a block of 21 flats/apartments all of varying sizes and values. The bandings assigned are mad - its like they have just randomly assigned bandings to different flats like pin the tail on the donkey.

I'm on band F for a 2 bed flat, yet there is a mews house round the corner worth well more than double my flat that's also band F.

And the only way to challenge your banding is to do so within 6 months of purchasing the property. I never thought about doing so until it was too late.

[Berwickhibby]

Although the council band taxing is confusing to say the least….it was brought in quickly to replace Thatchers poll tax which was horrendous. There has been plenty of time to readjust property values before now to make the system fairer.

[Ozyhibby]

Every single party agrees that the current system is terrible but they won’t get together to sort it and no party wants to do it alone because it is fraught with political danger. Even if you get it right, it would still likely upset enough voters to make it not worthwhile.


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[Just Alf]

It became a nightmare over time....

At the beginning existing properties had a banding allocated due to their perceived value (same holds true for new properties to this day).... then when a property was bought it "took on" the new banding relating to the purchase price.... this began to create inconsistencies where someone in a property for ages may be on a really low banding compared to a neighbour in the exact same type of house, there were so many problems and the costs to administer it were uneconomic so any future level changes based on sales prices were abandoned. Basically everything is frozen on their existing bands.

Ultimately it'll need, either a revaluation across the board or some new taxation method.

That's how I remember it anyway but it all happened years and years ago!

[The_Exile]

It's all a total mess, I'm in a tiny 1 bedroom flat and I'm a band C. The 3 bedroom houses LITERALLY round the corner are also a band C (I used to live in one). It's all a load of bollocks. Had everything looked in to and apparently it's all as it should be :rolleyes:

[StevieC]

It's all a total mess, I'm in a tiny 1 bedroom flat and I'm a band C. The 3 bedroom houses LITERALLY round the corner are also a band C (I used to live in one). It's all a load of bollocks. Had everything looked in to and apparently it's all as it should be :rolleyes:

I had a council tax band review of a property I lived in a good few years ago and it got changed (and I got a refund on overpayments), so it does happen.

It may be that the 3 bedroom house should be on a higher band, rather than you being on a lower one?

I think the council tax freeze was a big mistake and, as much as we like to slate councils, they are effectively trying to pay for services with one hand tied behind their backs because of it.

Council taxes need to go up AND they need additional government funding to try and reverse the huge problems that lack of funds has caused.

[Crunchie]

I think that's the issue though, the bands are not really based on who has what in society.

Our home wasn't cheap, even by Edinburgh standards, and yet we have the second lowest banding. The house and area we moved from is far less desirable and cheaper yet that new homeowner pays more than I do.

I'm not complaining on an individual level, nobody wants to pay more tax, I just find the whole system bizarre.
I lived in a terraced street where all the houses were identical yet one was in band B and all others in C. I lost an appeal to get mine reduced to B. That was back in 2000 and it's like that to this day.

[StevieC]

I lived in a terraced street where all the houses were identical yet one was in band B and all others in C. I lost an appeal to get mine reduced to B. That was back in 2000 and it's like that to this day.

Mine was a C and I had it reduced to B as majority of similar in street were all B.

Sounds like in your case the B should have been a C, but my understanding is that they can only reduce bands not increase them?

[Crunchie]

Mine was a C and I had it reduced to B as majority of similar in street were all B.

Sounds like in your case the B should have been a C, but my understanding is that they can only reduce bands not increase them?
I was told as much, yes :aok:.

[Paul1642]

I had a council tax band review of a property I lived in a good few years ago and it got changed (and I got a refund on overpayments), so it does happen.

It may be that the 3 bedroom house should be on a higher band, rather than you being on a lower one?

I think the council tax freeze was a big mistake and, as much as we like to slate councils, they are effectively trying to pay for services with one hand tied behind their backs because of it.

Council taxes need to go up AND they need additional government funding to try and reverse the huge problems that lack of funds has caused.

They are frozen because some people can’t really afford the increase.

This year my gas and electricity has increased in cost by a fortune, childcare has went up, NI increase, cost of petrol and food has rocketed, as has just about every other bill.

The only thing that hasn’t went up by much are my wages. Where am I and many other people supposed to find the money to pay more council tax. I am already on band E despite my property being worth far less than many on band D.

Perhaps we need to roll back on unnecessary expensive schemes such as giving every school aged child in Scotland a tablet, and instead give the rest of us a break on our bills.

If the council needs more money, Myself and many others are not in a position to take that increase to their bills right now.

Also what is the reason council tax bands have not been reassessed for modern values. It might be a big tax but it absolutely needs done.

[Since90+2]

Has there been any indication from Edinburgh council what the rise will be? 10%?

[StevieC]

They are frozen because some people can’t really afford the increase.

This year my gas and electricity has increased in cost by a fortune, childcare has went up, NI increase, cost of petrol and food has rocketed, as has just about every other bill.

The only thing that hasn’t went up by much are my wages. Where am I and many other people supposed to find the money to pay more council tax. I am already on band E despite my property being worth far less than many on band D.

Perhaps we need to roll back on unnecessary expensive schemes such as giving every school aged child in Scotland a tablet, and instead give the rest of us a break on our bills.

If the council needs more money, Myself and many others are not in a position to take that increase to their bills right now.

Also what is the reason council tax bands have not been reassessed for modern values. It might be a big tax but it absolutely needs done.

I totally get where you are coming from, and I’m sympathetic with your situation. I’m not proclaiming to have solutions, especially to individual circumstances, I’m just saying that councils NEED more money.. and that ultimately requires an increase in the amount of Council tax collected.

Although energy costs have risen Energy companies also had a freeze on the maximum they could charge, and that resulted in a lot of them going out of business. Councils are in a similar situation, although because of the services they provide they are not able to go out of business (they just have to make cuts to balance the books).

[speedy_gonzales]

Has there been any indication from Edinburgh council what the rise will be? 10%?

I bloody hope not, I moved house in the summer to a Band F, but after a reassessment I'm now a Band G.
Neighbour with a similar house is still an E as they haven't moved since the banding in the early 90's.
I'm seriously considering submitting an appeal, the Council Tax band was meant to be based on the property value in '93 or equivalent. They can't keep changing the band based on todays sale price in relation to old thresholds as every property would end up on the top band, H.