Liverpool terrorism attack

[He's here!]

The cabbie sounds like a national hero if what 5 Live are reporting he did to lock the suspect in his cab is true. Potentially saved many lives at the cenotaph - and then the hospital if his amended intention was to detonate explosives in there.

[Scorrie]

Probably too early to speculate but it is shocking. That was the hospital where my kids were born. It’s the maternity hospital for much of Liverpool

[Keith_M]

I can't get my head round the fact that a guy would want to detonate explosives in a maternity hospital.

Doing this anywhere is horrific enough but that's just sick beyond belief.

[He's here!]

I can't get my head round the fact that a guy would want to detonate explosives in a maternity hospital.

Doing this anywhere is horrific enough but that's just sick beyond belief.

Remarkable presence of mind (not to mention courage) from the cab driver.

Reports suggesting only the detonator went off, not the bomb itself, which may also have averted greater carnage. Terrifying incident.

[matty_f]

I’m only just catching up with this news now, seems like the taxi driver is a real hero.

[Scorrie]

There’s CCTV video on the Liverpool Echo website showing the whole thing. Shocking

[Keith_M]

Remarkable presence of mind (not to mention courage) from the cab driver.

Reports suggesting only the detonator went off, not the bomb itself, which may also have averted greater carnage. Terrifying incident.


I’m only just catching up with this news now, seems like the taxi driver is a real hero.


:agree:

[StevieC]

There’s CCTV video on the Liverpool Echo website showing the whole thing. Shocking

The footage seems a bit conflictive, regarding the claims of heroism from the taxi driver.

[Scouse Hibee]

The footage seems a bit conflictive, regarding the claims of heroism from the taxi driver.

Yeah tend to agree, unless I’m missing something he drove the taxi to the hospital then managed to escape after the explosion, a very lucky man but not sure where the heroism is.

[DaveF]

Yeah tend to agree, unless I’m missing something he drove the taxi to the hospital then managed to escape after the explosion, a very lucky man but not sure where the heroism is.

Maybe the guy had a backpack and his intention was to go into the hospital with it? If he's locked the doors then he may have stopped that?

Dunno really. Just guessing, obviously.

[He's here!]

The footage seems a bit conflictive, regarding the claims of heroism from the taxi driver.

Hard to deduce too much from that. It may be he'd already locked the doors as they pulled in and that's why the terrorist detonated the device so quickly? What I think we can say is that the driver's lucky to have escaped.

Liverpool's mayor is quoted in the Metro stating that the driver locked the doors and one of his neighbours, who was apparently able to speak to him on the phone said: "Dave said he noticed the guy had some kind of light attached to his clothing and was messing around with it. It didn't look right. The guy had asked to to got to the cathedral, but they couldn't get there, the roads were blocked off. The guy changed his mind and asked to go to the city centre instead but when they were going past the women's hospital he said to pull in there. I don't know how he's done it but Dave's locked the guy inside and as soon as he's done it it's gone off. If this guy had got in the hospital god knows."

[Callum_62]

Yeah tend to agree, unless I’m missing something he drove the taxi to the hospital then managed to escape after the explosion, a very lucky man but not sure where the heroism is.Apparently he someone knew what they were up to so locked them inside

Might have saved quite a few lives if that's true

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[StevieC]

Hard to deduce too much from that. It may be he'd already locked the doors as they pulled in and that's why the terrorist detonated

I would think that locking doors is standard practice for taxis, to ensure payment first. Do black cab doors not automatically lock?

From the footage the bomb is detonated just before the taxi comes to a complete stop, so hard to see how passenger would know whether doors were locked or not.

[Lendo]

Imagine being so lazy as to get a taxi to your own suicide bombing.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Yeah tend to agree, unless I’m missing something he drove the taxi to the hospital then managed to escape after the explosion, a very lucky man but not sure where the heroism is.

I think the explosion started whilst the driver was still in the car. He jumped out and had the quick thinking to lock the car doors, leaving the bomber inside. The bomb then fully exploded.

Did it detonate early? I can't see why the bomber would want it to explode like that. Lots of unanswered questions as yet.

[Bristolhibby]

I think the explosion started whilst the driver was still in the car. He jumped out and had the quick thinking to lock the car doors, leaving the bomber inside. The bomb then fully exploded.

Did it detonate early? I can't see why the bomber would want it to explode like that. Lots of unanswered questions as yet.

I think he wanted to go to the remembrance day service but (unsurprisingly) the roads were blocked.

Hospital sounds like target B, and the cabbie locked him in as he went up.

J

[JimBHibees]

Imagine being so lazy as to get a taxi to your own suicide bombing.

Yep sounds a bit half assed approach to it :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Did he get paid?

[Stairway 2 7]

Cost the terrorist an arm and a leg

[He's here!]

Cost the terrorist an arm and a leg

I know the only known casualty ended up being the terrorist f****r himself, but joking about the incident sits a bit uncomfortably with me. If it's true the device malfunctioned then we have that (and, it seems, the taxi driver) to thank for a bomb not going off at a maternity hospital - the potential consequences of which would have been horrific.

[wookie70]

Yeah tend to agree, unless I’m missing something he drove the taxi to the hospital then managed to escape after the explosion, a very lucky man but not sure where the heroism is.

That is all I can see too. On the face of it there is no heroism, but glad he managed to get out. The papers and establishment will make sure he is a hero regardless of what happened so we will never find out for sure. No surprise that the PM has jumped on the bandwagon. At the moment the facts are a taxi driver drove a terrorist to a hospital where in a half arsed attempt to cause harm he let off an explosion which was only capable of killing himself and injuring another party less than 10 foot away.

The other thing I always find strange is that there are always very quick arrests after these events. Was the bomber and his mates known to them and if so why were they allowed to act. It will be interesting to see what the arrests are for and when evidence was collected.

[Stairway 2 7]

I know the only known casualty ended up being the terrorist f****r himself, but joking about the incident sits a bit uncomfortably with me. If it's true the device malfunctioned then we have that (and, it seems, the taxi driver) to thank for a bomb not going off at a maternity hospital - the potential consequences of which would have been horrific.

I wouldn't watch Mel brooks the producers you'll have an aneurysm. Could have been a tragedy but thankfully justice was served out to the horrible ****

[Stairway 2 7]

Report I read said the primer went off and not the bomb. The taxi driver got out and locked the doors so the bomber could get out and died in the car instead. Who knows sure it'll come out in the wash

[Pretty Boy]

I always find it quite reassuring when thngs like this happen and I just can't comprehend the mindset of the perpetrator at all.

'I can't blow up a remembrance service so I'll head for a maternity hospital instead'

That's next level ****ed up right there.

[Hibrandenburg]

Do we even know if the driver was aware of who and what he had in the back prior to the device igniting?

[Billy Whizz]

If the driver saved at least one civilian life, he’s a hero in my opinion

[Killiehibbie]

Do we even know if the driver was aware of who and what he had in the back prior to the device igniting?

I'd put money on him being fairly sure by the time he bolted.

[He's here!]

That is all I can see too. On the face of it there is no heroism, but glad he managed to get out. The papers and establishment will make sure he is a hero regardless of what happened so we will never find out for sure. No surprise that the PM has jumped on the bandwagon. At the moment the facts are a taxi driver drove a terrorist to a hospital where in a half arsed attempt to cause harm he let off an explosion which was only capable of killing himself and injuring another party less than 10 foot away.

The other thing I always find strange is that there are always very quick arrests after these events. Was the bomber and his mates known to them and if so why were they allowed to act. It will be interesting to see what the arrests are for and when evidence was collected.

Not sure anyone's jumping on any bandwagons when you bear in mind this occurred just weeks after an MP was stabbed to death in another terrorist attack. If the taxi driver's actions prevented a far greater atrocity he deserves all the accolades which come his way.

[StevieC]

I think the explosion started whilst the driver was still in the car. He jumped out and had the quick thinking to lock the car doors, leaving the bomber inside. The bomb then fully exploded

There was only one explosion, as the car pulled up to the hospital, then the car caught fire. Can’t see there being much left of the passenger after the explosion so locking the doors seems pretty pointless. The driver door was also open, so don’t think remotes work when a door is open.
Seems strange to target a hospital after cancelling plan A, so I’m wondering if the taxi driver maybe picked up on something and it was his decision to drive to the hospital? That might explain the bomber panicking and detonating upon arrival?



Did it detonate early? I can't see why the bomber would want it to explode like that. Lots of unanswered questions as yet.

Looks like an early (unintended) detonation.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Not sure anyone's jumping on any bandwagons when you bear in mind this occurred just weeks after an MP was stabbed to death in another terrorist attack. If the taxi driver's actions prevented a far greater atrocity he deserves all the accolades which come his way.

GB News has already started a campaign to get the taxi driver a knighthood.

[CropleyWasGod]

GB News has already started a campaign to get the taxi driver a knighthood.

If it's all the same to GBNews, I reckon he'd prefer a new taxi.

[Hibernia&Alba]

If it's all the same to GBNews, I reckon he'd prefer a new taxi.

I heard someone saying thousands of pounds has already been raised for him, which I presume must be something like Go Fund Me.

[Scorrie]

I heard someone saying thousands of pounds has already been raised for him, which I presume must be something like Go Fund Me.

It is. There’s a Liverpool taxi drivers page

[hibsbollah]

GB News has already started a campaign to get the taxi driver a knighthood.

Cheeky wee donation to the Tory party should be all it takes :agree:

[Hibernia&Alba]

The bomber who died has been named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

The bomber who died has been named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen.

Hope it wasn’t instant.

[He's here!]

It is. There’s a Liverpool taxi drivers page

Reporter on Radio 4 just now suggesting the driver locked himself in the cab with the bomber when his suspicions were raised. Was he perhaps planning to call for emergency back-up? It takes his response to whole new levels of bravery if that turns out to be the case.

I guess if I was an experienced cabbie I might have the wherewithal to take some sort of preventative action but even then I think the resrealisation you've got a terrorist in the back of your cab must be unimaginably terrifying.

[wookie70]

Reporter on Radio 4 just now suggesting the driver locked himself in the cab with the bomber when his suspicions were raised. Was he perhaps planning to call for emergency back-up? It takes his response to whole new levels of bravery if that turns out to be the case.

I guess if I was an experienced cabbie I might have the wherewithal to take some sort of preventative action but even then I think the resrealisation you've got a terrorist in the back of your cab must be unimaginably terrifying.

Not sure that makes much sense unless he drove to the hospital thinking he may be hurt. Not really sure that is very heroic. Would a Police Station or area without people not be where you would head if looking for back up or trying to avoid lives being lost.

Let's see what he says happened and, and if the evidence backs it up, to see if he is a hero or not. The papers and establishment will make sure he is, ably backed by the PM and others that will be desperate for a Great British Hero.

At the moment, for me, he is a Taxi Driver that had a fare to the hospital and had a massive stroke of luck that he wasn't killed by a terrorist.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not sure that makes much sense unless he drove to the hospital thinking he may be hurt. Not really sure that is very heroic. Would a Police Station or area without people not be where you would head if looking for back up or trying to avoid lives being lost.

Let's see what he says happened and, and if the evidence backs it up, to see if he is a hero or not. The papers and establishment will make sure he is, ably backed by the PM and others that will be desperate for a Great British Hero.

At the moment, for me, he is a Taxi Driver that had a fare to the hospital and had a massive stroke of luck that he wasn't killed by a terrorist.

It's all speculation until we know the whole story. If the driver only knew he was carrying a terrorist with a bomb after it exploded or partially exploded, then he is a very lucky man. If he knew he had a terrorist with a bomb on board and then transported him to the woman's hospital, then I'm not sure hero status applies.

[Crunchie]

I know the only known casualty ended up being the terrorist f****r himself, but joking about the incident sits a bit uncomfortably with me. If it's true the device malfunctioned then we have that (and, it seems, the taxi driver) to thank for a bomb not going off at a maternity hospital - the potential consequences of which would have been horrific.
It's the world we now live in mate, those jokes were getting passed around at work, only by the young mind you.
Anything that pops up on their FB is their life and has to be shared, no matter how sick or sad it is.
I get called an old dinosaur because I don't have FB or Twitter, I tell them I have a life instead.

[Pretty Boy]

It's all speculation until we know the whole story. If the driver only knew he was carrying a terrorist with a bomb after it exploded or partially exploded, then he is a very lucky man. If he knew he had a terrorist with a bomb on board and then transported him to the woman's hospital, then I'm not sure hero status applies.

These stories always need a hero, I think it makes a better story than 'ill equipped terrorist bomb failed'.

It reminds me of the 'set aboot ye' guy at Glasgow Airport. Despite all the subsequent eye witness testimony at enquiries marking him out as a bit of a Walter Mitty, the press continued to ran with him for years. Politicians were happy to go with it too, his story detracted from a lot of the very real failings that led to the incident in the 1st place.

[Killiehibbie]

These stories always need a hero, I think it makes a better story than 'ill equipped terrorist bomb failed'.

It reminds me of the 'set aboot ye' guy at Glasgow Airport. Despite all the subsequent eye witness testimony at enquiries marking him out as a bit of a Walter Mitty, the press continued to ran with him for years. Politicians were happy to go with it too, his story detracted from a lot of the very real failings that led to the incident in the 1st place.

Smeaton got all the attention whilst the taxi driver who broke his leg was virtually ignored.

[wookie70]

These stories always need a hero, I think it makes a better story than 'ill equipped terrorist bomb failed'.

It reminds me of the 'set aboot ye' guy at Glasgow Airport. Despite all the subsequent eye witness testimony at enquiries marking him out as a bit of a Walter Mitty, the press continued to ran with him for years. Politicians were happy to go with it too, his story detracted from a lot of the very real failings that led to the incident in the 1st place.

He will be a hero in terms of the press and right wing politicians regardless of what actions he took. The narrative is far more important than the facts in this modern world.

[He's here!]

I always find it quite reassuring when thngs like this happen and I just can't comprehend the mindset of the perpetrator at all.

'I can't blow up a remembrance service so I'll head for a maternity hospital instead'

That's next level ****ed up right there.

I remember way back in the day when I was a student there was an Australian who lived in my first year hall of residence who had an artificial leg. I learned that he'd had the limb blown off by an IRA bomb when he was visiting London with his family as a kid (IIRC it was the car bomb that went off outside Harrods in the early 80s). It was the first time it was really brought home to me what 'injured' can actually mean in these sort of incidents ie devastating life-changing damage rather than 'phew, only injured'.

As you say, it seems impossible to get into the head of terrorists who deliberately target civilians for slaughter but I'm not sure I'd use the word reassuring to describe how I feel about that.

[Lendo]

The BBC reporting that the suspect was a Christian. This is going to confuse and anger a few right-wing nutters.

[He's here!]

The BBC reporting that the suspect was a Christian. This is going to confuse and anger a few right-wing nutters.

The only nutter involved here was the bomber.

I saw that report and he was baptised in 2015 but his diocese lost all contact with him a couple of years later. Clearly he's lost the plot in the subsequent years.

[wookie70]

Looks like there is so far no connection to Remembrance Day, car doors being locked not confirmed, and journey appeared to be unremarkable until the explosion and those arrested released without charge. Yet, we have news channels, the PM and thousands on social media and a few on here who have already wrote the "bad guy foiled by hero" story. A great example of how news and social media can be manipulated with a few well placed falsehoods to create a narrative.

[Stairway 2 7]

Looks like there is so far no connection to Remembrance Day, car doors being locked not confirmed, and journey appeared to be unremarkable until the explosion and those arrested released without charge. Yet, we have news channels, the PM and thousands on social media and a few on here who have already wrote the "bad guy foiled by hero" story. A great example of how news and social media can be manipulated with a few well placed falsehoods to create a narrative.

Your equally going on assumptions and are desperate for the boy not to be a hero, he probably isn't but class he's alive regardless. Police said he was trying to get to service at the cathedral but streets were closed so he asked to go to hospital when going past. The bomb went off a minute to 11 so it's hardly a stretch to connect the two.

Seems just the detonator went off and not the bomb so we can just be happy with that. Only one death and a Darwin award given out

[lapsedhibee]

Seems just the detonator went off and not the bomb so we can just be happy with that. Only one death and a Darwin award given out

Not sure if suicide bombing's really in the spirit of that award. If he was a suicide bomber he might be disqualified. Was he? :dunno:

[Berwickhibby]

I think the real part of the narrative is terrorist fails in plot to blow something up and try to kill innocent people.... kills himself ...regardless of his reasons one less murderer running around

[Stairway 2 7]

Not sure if suicide bombing's really in the spirit of that award. If he was a suicide bomber he might be disqualified. Was he? :dunno:

Read it was both a vest and a backpack which presumably would be left so it hinges on what one.

[wookie70]

Your equally going on assumptions and are desperate for the boy not to be a hero, he probably isn't but class he's alive regardless. Police said he was trying to get to service at the cathedral but streets were closed so he asked to go to hospital when going past. The bomb went off a minute to 11 so it's hardly a stretch to connect the two.

Seems just the detonator went off and not the bomb so we can just be happy with that. Only one death and a Darwin award given out

Did the police say he was going to the service. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59287001)Not on the BBC. The fare was to the hospital it is a stretch to connect the two if that is the case. I'm going by what I saw and what has been said officially. I'll rule out anything from the PM as that is pretty much guaranteed to be a lie. I'm glad the driver survived and hope he make a quick and full recovery. Very happy the explosion was limited to the person who was likely looking to do harm but that isn't proven yet.

[He's here!]

Your equally going on assumptions and are desperate for the boy not to be a hero, he probably isn't but class he's alive regardless. Police said he was trying to get to service at the cathedral but streets were closed so he asked to go to hospital when going past. The bomb went off a minute to 11 so it's hardly a stretch to connect the two.

Seems just the detonator went off and not the bomb so we can just be happy with that. Only one death and a Darwin award given out

Yep, I don't get the seeming determination to see this through such cynical eyes. A story which could so easily have had the very blackest of endings was instead turned into one with an ending for which we can all be grateful. Where's the problem?

As you say, hardly a stretch to connect the timing of the bomb with the hour at which we remember the fallen.

[He's here!]

I think the real part of the narrative is terrorist fails in plot to blow something up and try to kill innocent people.... kills himself ...regardless of his reasons one less murderer running around

:agree:

[wookie70]

I think the real part of the narrative is terrorist fails in plot to blow something up and try to kill innocent people.... kills himself ...regardless of his reasons one less murderer running around

That may be the story but that certainly wasn't the narrative, particularly yesterday. It would be fascinating to know where all the talk of ceremonies, unlocked doors and a hero came from. Was it just people looking to get some likes on Twitter or was there an orchestrated campaign. The way the media works now is they report what is on Social Media so there is days and days of Hero Narrative created from that one day of reporting and no-one bothers listening to the Police spokesman the next day who tells what they currently know, very little.

You are likely right that the deceased was a terrorist and out to do harm to others but do we even know that yet.

[Stairway 2 7]

That may be the story but that certainly wasn't the narrative, particularly yesterday. It would be fascinating to know where all the talk of ceremonies, unlocked doors and a hero came from. Was it just people looking to get some likes on Twitter or was there an orchestrated campaign. The way the media works now is they report what is on Social Media so there is days and days of Hero Narrative created from that one day of reporting and no-one bothers listening to the Police spokesman the next day who tells what they currently know, very little.

You are likely right that the deceased was a terrorist and out to do harm to others but do we even know that yet.

Your unreal 😆 your quite right he might have been a mine explosives worker just finishing his shift

[wookie70]

Yep, I don't get the seeming determination to see this through such cynical eyes. A story which could so easily have had the very blackest of endings was instead turned into one with an ending for which we can all be grateful. Where's the problem?

As you say, hardly a stretch to connect the timing of the bomb with the hour at which we remember the fallen.

How is my view cynical. I was waiting for some facts and they are starting to now come out.There was nothing in the footage that looked heroic.

Surely creating a hero where there appears to be no evidence of that is cynical if you are trying to promote a narrative that benefits your point of view. My target here is the government and news outlets with that last sentence not a few posters on here that wanted to see the good in a terrible situation.

[Kato]

It's cynical not to believe a narrative about a Liverpudlian which first appeared in The Sun newspaper.

Who knew?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Your unreal 😆 your quite right he might have been a mine explosives worker just finishing his shift

He is most likely a terrorist but are we certain he knowingly took the explosives into the taxi. Listening to the Police statement on the BBC I don't think the officer directly calls the deceased a terrorist he just says the device was taken into the car by him. He wasn't even confirming they knew who it was although they believed they did. That to me is the correct way this should be being reported and fair play to the police officer who just sets out the facts and plays it with a straight bat. All I am doing is going by what the Police have said. You are jumping ahead and making facts from likelihoods.

[Stairway 2 7]

He is most likely a terrorist but are we certain he knowingly took the explosives into the taxi. Listening to the Police statement on the BBC I don't think the officer directly calls the deceased a terrorist he just says the device was taken into the car by him. He wasn't even confirming they knew who it was although they believed they did. That to me is the correct way this should be being reported and fair play to the police officer who just sets out the facts and plays it with a straight bat. All I am doing is going by what the Police have said. You are jumping ahead and making facts from likelihoods.

Quite right pal 😲

[wookie70]

Quite right pal 😲 Play the ball not the man. Feel free to disagree but give it a rest with the sarcasm and personal comments. You may think all this is funny and want to make jokes but events like this, how they are reported and justice being served for those who commit and are the victims of crime are important matters to me. As said The Police response that, I watched on the BBC, is what I want reported by the media and particularly high ranking politicians. The Police also stressed from the start that "People should resist speculating on social media"

[He's here!]

Your unreal �� your quite right he might have been a mine explosives worker just finishing his shift

:greengrin

[wookie70]

Another report where the headline continues (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hero-liverpool-taxi-driver-gives-25477661) the Hero narrative but the story says nothing of heroism. If the source is correct it sounds like what happened is exactly what looked like happened on the clip. Good news the driver is well enough to do a long interview and hopefully that means he will have a quick and full recovery.

[147lothian]

Even if the cabbie has suffered no physical harm as a result of the explosion, he may well be psychologically damaged, for example imagine he says I am fine I am going to return to work and his first job is a punter coming out of the gym with a bag pack, if the maternity hospital isn't safe no where will appear safe for this unfortunate guy.

[wookie70]

Even if the cabbie has suffered no physical harm as a result of the explosion, he may well be psychologically damaged, for example imagine he says I am fine I am going to return to work and his first job is a punter coming out of the gym with a bag pack, if the maternity hospital isn't safe no where will appear safe for this unfortunate guy.

I agree totally. He will get a good bit of cash from the fundraisers which will hopefully allow him time and resource to get well before having to return to work as a driver or something else. That at least is something positive as those funds were no doubt helped by the hero story. Hopefully, the media back off and let him get well. They made up their story and sold copy so let the guy get better in peace.

[He's here!]

Play the ball not the man. Feel free to disagree but give it a rest with the sarcasm and personal comments. You may think all this is funny and want to make jokes but events like this, how they are reported and justice being served for those who commit and are the victims of crime are important matters to me. As said The Police response that, I watched on the BBC, is what I want reported by the media and particularly high ranking politicians. The Police also stressed from the start that "People should resist speculating on social media"

There's a sense from your posts though that there's more to it for you than simply wanting 'the facts'. I'm not really seeing the 'establishment' narrative you do. The immediate aftermath of such shocking incidents can be confusing, with all sorts of accounts gathering momentum. The public are, I'm sure, often not appraised of the full facts for security reasons. If the events didn't play out exactly as initially portrayed then so what? As others have said, there's a near miraculous element to what happened whether the taxi driver meets whatever the standard is for hero status or not.

It goes without saying that the incident is no laughing matter, but you do seem to be taking your strip back the narrative agenda to extremes by calling into question whether the guy who detonated the device was even a terrorist when latest reports are that he had been preparing the attack since April:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59317136

[wookie70]

There's a sense from your posts though that there's more to it for you than simply wanting 'the facts'. I'm not really seeing the 'establishment' narrative you do. The immediate aftermath of such shocking incidents can be confusing, with all sorts of accounts gathering momentum. The public are, I'm sure, often not appraised of the full facts for security reasons. If the events didn't play out exactly as initially portrayed then so what? As others have said, there's a near miraculous element to what happened whether the taxi driver meets whatever the standard is for hero status or not.

It goes without saying that the incident is no laughing matter, but you do seem to be taking your strip back the narrative agenda to extremes by calling into question whether the guy who detonated the device was even a terrorist when latest reports are that he had been preparing the attack since April:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59317136

A red top paper was still leading with headlines that he was a hero yesterday despite the story underneath saying nothing of the sort. The PM jumping on the bandwagon is about as Establishment as they come. He doesn't deal in truth though. Twitter full of every right winger saying what a hero he is. You started this thread, presumably at a time where news would be confusing as you say, jumping on the hero, Cenotath and locking the cab doors story. Is that something you would encourage everyone to do when tragedy strikes - speculate and sensationalise without knowledge of the facts.

I followed the advice of the police in not speculating. Judging by your link and last para I presumably showed poor judgement in stripping back the narrative by not knowing yesterday what is being reported today. The bomber looks to be confirmed as someone who had planned the attack and is, at the very least, a disgruntled individual with a history of mental health issues. I have no idea what his aims were and if they were political etc, so I will refrain from calling him a terrorist as there is a definition for that in law and nothing I have read confirms it was an act of terrorism although the Government have already declared it to be. They may well have the details that make that correct but we aren't party to that and I don't trust the Government. My bold in the extract below

The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below, and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

[hibsbollah]

A red top paper was still leading with headlines that he was a hero yesterday despite the story underneath saying nothing of the sort. The PM jumping on the bandwagon is about as Establishment as they come. He doesn't deal in truth though. Twitter full of every right winger saying what a hero he is. You started this thread, presumably at a time where news would be confusing as you say, jumping on the hero, Cenotath and locking the cab doors story. Is that something you would encourage everyone to do when tragedy strikes - speculate and sensationalise without knowledge of the facts.

I followed the advice of the police in not speculating. Judging by your link and last para I presumably showed poor judgement in stripping back the narrative by not knowing yesterday what is being reported today. The bomber looks to be confirmed as someone who had planned the attack and is, at the very least, a disgruntled individual with a history of mental health issues. I have no idea what his aims were and if they were political etc, so I will refrain from calling him a terrorist as there is a definition for that in law and nothing I have read confirms it was an act of terrorism although the Government have already declared it to be. They may well have the details that make that correct but we aren't party to that and I don't trust the Government. My bold in the extract below

The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below, and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

I think the red tops have a particular idea of what 'a hero' looks like.
Still waiting for this story to get much interest...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/16/uk-muslim-who-died-trying-to-save-womans-life-hailed-as-hero

[wookie70]

I think the red tops have a particular idea of what 'a hero' looks like.
Still waiting for this story to get much interest...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/16/uk-muslim-who-died-trying-to-save-womans-life-hailed-as-hero

Not a red top to be seen on the first page of a Google search of his name despite the BBC and Sky news carrying the story, how surprising, can't think why. The first red top in the search actually put quotes around the word Hero despite the article having quotes from witnesses describing him as a hero and his actions which sound heroic to me. That paper is still calling the taxi driver a hero in bold headlines without the quotes. No Establishment narrative of course.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The story of the bomber's supposed conversion to Christianity is interesting.

Was it a ruse, designed to look less suspicious to authorities as he planned a terrorist attack?
Was it genuine, but he had a change of heart and fell back into a more fundamentalist strain of Islam?

It seems a strange path for someone who became a suicide bomber.

[Stairway 2 7]

The story of the bomber's supposed conversion to Christianity is interesting.

Was it a ruse, designed to look less suspicious to authorities as he planned a terrorist attack?
Was it genuine, but he had a change of heart and fell back into a more fundamentalist strain of Islam?

It seems a strange path for someone who became a suicide bomber.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/liverpool-terror-attack-man-who-gave-a-home-to-bomber-knew-bible-meetings-were-targeted-by-fake-muslim-converts-12470874

A court had heard that Muslims refugees were converting at Liverpool cathedral to advance their asylum claims.

[147lothian]

The story of the bomber's supposed conversion to Christianity is interesting.

Was it a ruse, designed to look less suspicious to authorities as he planned a terrorist attack?
Was it genuine, but he had a change of heart and fell back into a more fundamentalist strain of Islam?

It seems a strange path for someone who became a suicide bomber.

As for this guys conversion to Christianity I think this was due to him having a previous asylum application rejected, he was probably thinking that it was a good way to win an appeal, or it could as you say have all been a ruse, he might well have been planning something like this for a while, as for his motive for wanting to blow up the Maternity Hospital, it could be weeks before we get an answer to this.

[cabbageandribs1875]

"pray to stay" i've read the practise has been dubbed in parts down south

[wookie70]

As for this guys conversion to Christianity I think this was due to him having a previous asylum application rejected, he was probably thinking that it was a good way to win an appeal, or it could as you say have all been a ruse, he might well have been planning something like this for a while, as for his motive for wanting to blow up the Maternity Hospital, it could be weeks before we get an answer to this.

Or he could be a Christian, that appears to be what is being said by those that knew him, with Mental Health problems indicated by the fact he was sectioned. Perhaps we will never know, probably just better to wait and see. I do think it is worth getting to the truth though and robustly following that through to see if the motivation and reasons can be understood and perhaps lessons learned.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/liverpool-terror-attack-man-who-gave-a-home-to-bomber-knew-bible-meetings-were-targeted-by-fake-muslim-converts-12470874

A court had heard that Muslims refugees were converting at Liverpool cathedral to advance their asylum claims.

So it may have been just a cynical means to an end, and a method to win an asylum appeal. I could be wrong, but I would have assumed that someone who is a very hardline Muslim would refuse to feign belief in another religion; that it would be apostasy. But I know nothing about Islam.

[He's here!]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/liverpool-terror-attack-man-who-gave-a-home-to-bomber-knew-bible-meetings-were-targeted-by-fake-muslim-converts-12470874

A court had heard that Muslims refugees were converting at Liverpool cathedral to advance their asylum claims.

Alarming to hear that the issue of fake muslim converts was raised as far back as 2015.

In saying that, I feel sorry for families like those who took in the Liverpool bomber in good faith.

[Stairway 2 7]

The immigration system is also messed up if you get looked at better for converting religion

[bigwheel]

The imagination system is also messed up if you get looked at better for converting religion

That’s is so true. If non Muslims are getting better outcomes through asylum and immigration processes, then we have got it all wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Alarming to hear that the issue of fake muslim converts was raised as far back as 2015.

In saying that, I feel sorry for families like those who took in the Liverpool bomber in good faith.

Not sure how those two things are connected if you are connecting them.

One of the families he lived with have said "We’re just so, so sad. We just loved him. He was a lovely guy.” Not sure they are interested in people feeling sorry for them.

Do you know the bomber was a "fake Muslim convert". I've not read anything to suggest that from serious news outlets, far from it actually. At the moment he appears to be a bomber who is Christian. Anti Muslim hate has increased particularly in Liverpool, one of the main reasons the Police would rather the media and individuals didn't speculate, particularly about religion. As yet there is no connection to Religion in terms of the bombing from what I have read.

As far back as 2015 the courts said they had faith that the Cathedral, that the bomber was converted to Christianity, had a robust method of making sure those who sought conversion were genuine. If the courts and Christian Cathedral are right then not sure there is any need for alarm unless you are trying to create some.

I see that monstrous woman Priti Patel has blamed the bomber for exploiting "Britain’s “dysfunctional” immigration system by staying in the country. Obviously neglecting to state that her Party had already been in charge of the system for 4 years when he arrived and has been in charge for the 6 years his case has been stuck in limbo. No self reflection in her case, possibly as she can't be seen in a mirror.

[wookie70]

That’s is so true. If non Muslims are getting better outcomes through asylum and immigration processes, then we have got it all wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That isn't the reasons that are stated in the article. It isn't what religion they are, or were. It is about what their religion/conversion means in the country they are fleeing from not their religion in this country, if that makes sense. The motives for conversion won't be the same for every person and it cannot be assumed that there is self interest involved in a conversion. That could be the case for some but massively dangerous to suggest it is universal or the case in terms of the bomber.

If non Muslims are getting better treatment then it is beyond wrong it criminal but that doesn't appear to be unusual for the current Government.

[Berwickhibby]

Regardless the bottom line is simple, failed asylum seeker assembles an IED, gets in a taxi with said IED with it strapped to his person and also a rucksack. The detonator goes off outside a maternity hospital killing just him. Religion MHI etc are irrelevant ....this was a planned attack that thankfully failed.

[wookie70]

Regardless the bottom line is simple, failed asylum seeker assembles an IED, gets in a taxi with said IED with it strapped to his person and also a rucksack. The detonator goes off outside a maternity hospital killing just him. Religion MHI etc are irrelevant ....this was a planned attack that thankfully failed.

or Asylum seeker gets in a taxi with a bomb. The detonator goes off outside a maternity hospital killing just him

[Berwickhibby]

or Asylum seeker gets in a taxi with a bomb. The detonator goes off outside a maternity hospital killing just him

You are missing the main point, he sourced and built the device with the glaringly obvious intent to detonate it.

[wookie70]

You are missing the main point, he sourced and built the device with the glaringly obvious intent to detonate it.

You are taking phrases such as "A complex picture is emerging over the purchases of the component parts of the device" and "we believe relevant purchases have been made", which is all I can find that the Police have said, as confirmation he sourced and built the bomb. By the way there is nothing about the bomb being on him and him carrying a rucksack either from what I can see. At least not from media reporting rather than speculating

[Stairway 2 7]

You are taking phrases such as "A complex picture is emerging over the purchases of the component parts of the device" and "we believe relevant purchases have been made", which is all I can find that the Police have said, as confirmation he sourced and built the bomb. By the way there is nothing about the bomb being on him and him carrying a rucksack either from what I can see. At least not from media reporting rather than speculating

You've won me over, if the bomb doesn't fit you must ecquit

[wookie70]

You've won me over, if the bomb doesn't fit you must ecquitWhat does ecquit mean.

[Berwickhibby]

You are taking phrases such as "A complex picture is emerging over the purchases of the component parts of the device" and "we believe relevant purchases have been made", which is all I can find that the Police have said, as confirmation he sourced and built the bomb. By the way there is nothing about the bomb being on him and him carrying a rucksack either from what I can see. At least not from media reporting rather than speculating

This press release suggests differently https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/17/liverpool-bombers-final-words-before-sitting-in-silence-in-taxi-15619556/ however to be honest your posts appear to suggest that you believe he could possibly be an innocent victim.... I think he would have been a mass murderer if things had not panned out the way they did.

[147lothian]

Or he could be a Christian, that appears to be what is being said by those that knew him, with Mental Health problems indicated by the fact he was sectioned. Perhaps we will never know, probably just better to wait and see. I do think it is worth getting to the truth though and robustly following that through to see if the motivation and reasons can be understood and perhaps lessons learned.

The Church of England has expressed concern about the motive's of people who claim to have converted to Christianity while appealing deportation cases, Edam Al Sweelmeen, had his application for asylum rejected in 2014, on his appeal he was able to say that his life would be in danger in he was deported to an ultra conservative Islamic society as he was a Christian convert. It appears his conversion to Christianity wasn't all it appears with the news that he attended mosques prior to attempting to blow up the Woman's Hospital.

[He's here!]

Not sure how those two things are connected if you are connecting them.

One of the families he lived with have said "We’re just so, so sad. We just loved him. He was a lovely guy.” Not sure they are interested in people feeling sorry for them.

Do you know the bomber was a "fake Muslim convert". I've not read anything to suggest that from serious news outlets, far from it actually. At the moment he appears to be a bomber who is Christian. Anti Muslim hate has increased particularly in Liverpool, one of the main reasons the Police would rather the media and individuals didn't speculate, particularly about religion. As yet there is no connection to Religion in terms of the bombing from what I have read.

As far back as 2015 the courts said they had faith that the Cathedral, that the bomber was converted to Christianity, had a robust method of making sure those who sought conversion were genuine. If the courts and Christian Cathedral are right then not sure there is any need for alarm unless you are trying to create some.

I see that monstrous woman Priti Patel has blamed the bomber for exploiting "Britain’s “dysfunctional” immigration system by staying in the country. Obviously neglecting to state that her Party had already been in charge of the system for 4 years when he arrived and has been in charge for the 6 years his case has been stuck in limbo. No self reflection in her case, possibly as she can't be seen in a mirror.

Viewed through such a relentlessly anti-establishment lens a potential mass murderer can sound positively angelic.

[WhileTheChief..]

Muslims converting to Christianity? That's a new one.

[CropleyWasGod]

Muslims converting to Christianity? That's a new one.

It's not really new. It's been going on for centuries.

A quick Google suggests that conversion is higher now than it has been in a long time.

[Bristolhibby]

I remember way back in the day when I was a student there was an Australian who lived in my first year hall of residence who had an artificial leg. I learned that he'd had the limb blown off by an IRA bomb when he was visiting London with his family as a kid (IIRC it was the car bomb that went off outside Harrods in the early 80s). It was the first time it was really brought home to me what 'injured' can actually mean in these sort of incidents ie devastating life-changing damage rather than 'phew, only injured'.

As you say, it seems impossible to get into the head of terrorists who deliberately target civilians for slaughter but I'm not sure I'd use the word reassuring to describe how I feel about that.

A friend of mine from school (I say friend you have loads in those days, have a chat, Facebook mate) was killed in a Terrorist attack in Russia.

His Dad was a lecturer at the University of Bath and Oleg came over having been brought up by Russian parents teaching in Madrid.

He was one of the biggest stoners I knew but was brilliant at maths. After A levels results I found out that he was one of two people who got straight As.

A in Maths, A in Russian and A in Spanish.

Years later he was on a train travelling between Moscow and St Petersburg when a bomb went off killing him and 38 others.

Really sad, he was a decent bloke.

But yes, for everyone killed or hurt there’s a family devastated.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

It's not really new. It's been going on for centuries.

A quick Google suggests that conversion is higher now than it has been in a long time.

It's a crusade. 😉