Small squad = more "quality" mantra is wearing thin...

[Scotty Leither]

We've been fed this line, and swallowed it whole for far too long, both by the previous Board and it would appear this one too. I think Mathie deserved to go after the last two transfer windows, but I suspect our whole recruitment policy (if there is one) runs deeper than one individual.

The phrase emanated from Leeann Dempster, but it had all the hallmarks of Petrie's "cheap is best" ethos and is largely discredited when we have an injury to one or two key players and the whole team needs to be recast.

It's also especially prevalent and noticeable in the higher profile games such as the Cup Final when St Johnstone had more options off the bench than we did.


We've needed a top-class goalkeeper for long enough, we need competition at Centre Half, and we are crying out for a playmaker to at least rouse us from our slumber once in while under this current manager.

A "quality" squad has its key players in the key positions and adequate options off the bench; we currently have neither, and we certainly don't need to sign last minute stop-gaps contributing nothing.

Ron Gordon talks about one day challenging for the league. That needs "quality" investment Ron...over to you.

[tonyrougier123]

Agreed scotty,we have been sold short for too long.
Time we invested in the team properly!

[CL0762]

I think it’s borderline negligence for us to have gone into this season the way that we did.

Ron, Mathie, Ross one way or another are all accountable for the complete and utter shambles we have found ourselves in squad wise.

It actually angers me still that we went into the Riejka game forced to play McGregor. We chased that mccart for months only to end up with a rookie centre half from Middlesbrough who’s played a grand total of 1 game.

We desperately needed another centre forward, before Doidge got seriously injured. We ended up with a Jamie Murphy carbon copy who’s out injured all the time.

The mess is down to the recruitment structure at the club and I don’t think I’ve been this angry towards the club for a very long time.

[jeffers]

The recruitment has been undoubtedly poor, particularly this summer. I disagree that we aren’t spending money. We paid a fee for McKay, tried to sign McCart, offered big money to get in McGrath as well as trying to sign the Norwegian Tonneson We’ve signed a keeper from Arsenal, an attacker from the Huns, gave a new bumper contract to Boyle. Got Newell to sign a new deal.

For the first time in a long time it feels to me that we are investing in the team, the issue is who we are investing it in.

[SMAXXA]

Who were we all missing tonight -

Doidge
Mcgregor
Allan
Magennis
Scott
McKay

Bar Mcgregor it’s no coincidence we are toiling in the forward areas. What’s concerning is bar doidge and Magennis and maybe Allan we haven’t seen anything from the rest that we can pin our hopes on. Do think even having doidge and magennis back would make a huge difference, now just need to learn how to defend 🙈

[B.H.F.C]

Too many of the players signed over the last season and a bit haven’t contributed enough. Look at the players, involved tonight, that have signed under Ross.

Macey - Not done much wrong but step down from Marciano IMO
McGinn - Done better than most thought he would
JDH - Good start, dropped off, still some hope for him
Gogic - Poor
Murphy - Not done enough
Nisbet - Not interested
Wright - Dreadful
Cadden - Not done enough
Wood - Only signed because we failed elsewhere

It’s not just been the deals that we’ve not done that have been the problem IMO.

[SMAXXA]

Too many of the players signed over the last season and a bit haven’t contributed enough. Look at the players, involved tonight, that have signed under Ross.

Macey - Not done much wrong but step down from Marciano IMO
McGinn - Done better than most thought he would
JDH - Good start, dropped off, still some hope for him
Gogic - Poor
Murphy - Not done enough
Nisbet - Not interested
Wright - Dreadful
Cadden - Not done enough
Wood - Only signed because we failed elsewhere

It’s not just been the deals that we’ve not done that have been the problem IMO.

Magennis and McKay can be added to that list.

[jacomo]

We've been fed this line, and swallowed it whole for far too long, both by the previous Board and it would appear this one too. I think Mathie deserved to go after the last two transfer windows, but I suspect our whole recruitment policy (if there is one) runs deeper than one individual.

The phrase emanated from Leeann Dempster, but it had all the hallmarks of Petrie's "cheap is best" ethos and is largely discredited when we have an injury to one or two key players and the whole team needs to be recast.

It's also especially prevalent and noticeable in the higher profile games such as the Cup Final when St Johnstone had more options off the bench than we did.


We've needed a top-class goalkeeper for long enough, we need competition at Centre Half, and we are crying out for a playmaker to at least rouse us from our slumber once in while under this current manager.

A "quality" squad has its key players in the key positions and adequate options off the bench; we currently have neither, and we certainly don't need to sign last minute stop-gaps contributing nothing.

Ron Gordon talks about one day challenging for the league. That needs "quality" investment Ron...over to you.


You’ve gone scattergun here mate!

Petrie’s penny pinching was miles away in philosophy from Leeann’s approach, yet Leeann said I think we’d have a first teamer, a reserve and a youth for every position… it never quite happened.

I think last season we had a smaller squad, but it seems we have fewer options now. As always, it’s all about balance… and a bit of luck.

[jacomo]

I think it’s borderline negligence for us to have gone into this season the way that we did.

Ron, Mathie, Ross one way or another are all accountable for the complete and utter shambles we have found ourselves in squad wise.

It actually angers me still that we went into the Riejka game forced to play McGregor. We chased that mccart for months only to end up with a rookie centre half from Middlesbrough who’s played a grand total of 1 game.

We desperately needed another centre forward, before Doidge got seriously injured. We ended up with a Jamie Murphy carbon copy who’s out injured all the time.

The mess is down to the recruitment structure at the club and I don’t think I’ve been this angry towards the club for a very long time.


Well, the guy who headed the recruitment structure has gone, so I guess changes are afoot eh?

I get the disappointment at the moment - results and performances have been poor - but I’m not understanding where the anger is coming from.

It feels a million miles away from the kind of shambles we’ve been in back in the bad old days. Mistakes will happen but we seem to be run by a guy who cares.

[May21/05/216]

Well, the guy who headed the recruitment structure has gone, so I guess changes are afoot eh?

I get the disappointment at the moment - results and performances have been poor - but I’m not understanding where the anger is coming from.

It feels a million miles away from the kind of shambles we’ve been in back in the bad old days. Mistakes will happen but we seem to be run by a guy who cares.I agree with this post I've followed hibs for over 55 years and I've seen much more rubbish times but that's the world we live in
Ps I'm a fan not a happy clapper

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[lucky]

The recruitment has been undoubtedly poor, particularly this summer. I disagree that we aren’t spending money. We paid a fee for McKay, tried to sign McCart, offered big money to get in McGrath as well as trying to sign the Norwegian Tonneson We’ve signed a keeper from Arsenal, an attacker from the Huns, gave a new bumper contract to Boyle. Got Newell to sign a new deal.

For the first time in a long time it feels to me that we are investing in the team, the issue is who we are investing it in.

But the money we were “going” to spend was dependent on us selling Doig but we overplayed our hand and no one was interested in him at £5m. Hibs have invested in keeping our players but we still need better and more players. The overall quality is not great and our squad is too small

[matty_f]

I think everyone, from the manager to the board acknowledged we needed more in through the summer window, and far from accepting it there was a very significant action taken to sack Graeme Mathie.

The quality over quantity approach covers the lockdown season, absolutely nobody (afaik) other than the OP has used the quality over quantity mantra this season.

[Pretty Boy]

The recruitment over the summer was bordering on farcical. I think part of the problem was that far from us keeping all our sellable assets being a good thing, the failure to offload one left us unable to get other deals done.

Hibs have hardly been negligent in dealing with it though. A man has paid the price with his job and it looks like we have revamped the structure significantly around recruitment (a bit of official communication around that would be nice mind you). I think that shows a ruthless streak in Ron Gordon. If he is serious about his ambitions in doubling turnover and increasing the playing budget significantly in line with that then I'd expect a few more ruthless decisions is the failings we are all seeing right now aren't rectified promptly.

[blackpoolhibs]

Well, the guy who headed the recruitment structure has gone, so I guess changes are afoot eh?

I get the disappointment at the moment - results and performances have been poor - but I’m not understanding where the anger is coming from.

It feels a million miles away from the kind of shambles we’ve been in back in the bad old days. Mistakes will happen but we seem to be run by a guy who cares.

Great post, i think we've been really unlucky with injuries, and unlucky again with not getting in the signings we wanted.

Couple that together and we get where we are now. January we start again from a better position, and hopefully again in the summer.

Everybody wants success now, and probably they want it yesterday, but we are owned by someone who cares, we do have a manager who's given us 3rd place, and when everyone was fit, we did have a team who started to entertain us.

This has all come tumbling down because of what i said above, but we will improve again, and we will get better again.

[jeffers]

But the money we were “going” to spend was dependent on us selling Doig but we overplayed our hand and no one was interested in him at £5m. Hibs have invested in keeping our players but we still need better and more players. The overall quality is not great and our squad is too small

I think selling Doig undoubtedly had an impact, but we still bid for McCart a few times (I’m happy we never paid over the odds) and wanted the Norwegian regardless of Doig moving on plus the move for McGrath when it was clear Doig was staying.

I don’t dispute what you are saying, but had Wood and Scott been better quality for example it would have made a big difference when injuries struck. Though I guess that’s part of your point re quality, I just don’t feel it’s been a case of penny pinching as the OP states.

[AL-Qaholik]

4 of us were having this conversation in the pub last night.
We were collectively struggling to name current players that we'd be fussed about leaving.
We decided Magennis (if he can keep himself fit), Doyle-Hayes (if we can find the right balance in midfield to get the best out of him) and Boyle were the only players we would be particularly keen to keep hold of at the moment.
That's pretty damning. We have neither quality nor quantity right now.

[Pretty Boy]

4 of us were having this conversation in the pub last night.
We were collectively struggling to name current players that we'd be fussed about leaving.
We decided Magennis (if he can keep himself fit), Doyle-Hayes (if we can find the right balance in midfield to get the best out of him) and Boyle were the only players we would be particularly keen to keep hold of at the moment.
That's pretty damning. We have neither quality nor quantity right now.

I think building a connection between the players and the fans has been an issue for a while now, it arguably predates Ross.

Someone got a lot of grief a couple of weeks back for saying they preferred watching us in the Championship, that's a stretch as there were plenty grim spectacles back then. I would happily admit that I liked that team a lot more than this one though. There are the obvious fan favourites like Cummings, McGinn and Bartley that most people liked. There were guys like Fontaine who just got Hibs and then there were good players like McGeouch and Fyvie. Even guys who didn't play a lot or were squad players were likable in their enthusiasm. I liked Keatings and El Alagui, you had a total opinion splitter like Malonga who I loved. Liam Henderson came in on loan and totally got us, Grant Holt was a great guy then you had an entertainer like Ambrose who pitched up in the Championship as well.

The big difference from then to now was that I felt like I knew those players. The clubs media output was outstanding at that time and has never come close since. I was far more forgiving of guys I genuinely liked than I am of guys who I feel I have to like because they are wearing a Hibs strip. I miss the buzz around the team at that time and I was gutted when a lot of those players left even when it was the correct footballing decision. Like you there aren't many of the current squad I would be devastated to lose.

[ABZHFC]

I think building a connection between the players and the fans has been an issue for a while now, it arguably predates Ross.

Someone got a lot of grief a couple of weeks back for saying they preferred watching us in the Championship, that's a stretch as there were plenty grim spectacles back then. I would happily admit that I liked that team a lot more than this one though. There are the obvious fan favourites like Cummings, McGinn and Bartley that most people liked. There were guys like Fontaine who just got Hibs and then there were good players like McGeouch and Fyvie. Even guys who didn't play a lot or were squad players were likable in their enthusiasm. I liked Keatings and El Alagui, you had a total opinion splitter like Malonga who I loved. Liam Henderson came in on loan and totally got us, Grant Holt was a great guy then you had an entertainer like Ambrose who pitched up in the Championship as well.

The big difference from then to now was that I felt like I knew those players. The clubs media output was outstanding at that time and has never come close since. I was far more forgiving of guys I genuinely liked than I am of guys who I feel I have to like because they are wearing a Hibs strip. I miss the buzz around the team at that time and I was gutted when a lot of those players left even when it was the correct footballing decision. Like you there aren't many of the current squad I would be devastated to lose.

Nail on head

[IncredibleHibee]

The recruitment over the summer was bordering on farcical. I think part of the problem was that far from us keeping all our sellable assets being a good thing, the failure to offload one left us unable to get other deals done.

Hibs have hardly been negligent in dealing with it though. A man has paid the price with his job and it looks like we have revamped the structure significantly around recruitment (a bit of official communication around that would be nice mind you). I think that shows a ruthless streak in Ron Gordon. If he is serious about his ambitions in doubling turnover and increasing the playing budget significantly in line with that then I'd expect a few more ruthless decisions is the failings we are all seeing right now aren't rectified promptly.


I agree with this. The recruitment left much to be desired and unfortunately we are now left to pay the price of that for this season. Cant imagine a huge amount of significant signings will be made in January - more 'stop-gap' fixes. So, that means pre-season 2022/23 is extremely important and we will have a huge amount of work on our hands to fix failings of the one previous. It might take 2 or 3 transfer windows to shot out in my view. We will see then whether Ron's decisions and appointments have been beneficial.

I don't think Ross is the most tactically diverse/astute manager but at the same time, he doesn't really have the players to mix it up.

[The Captain....]

I don't think we'll ever know the full story of why our last window was so disappointing. On the face of it we seemed to approach players but just didn't have the finance to get them done, at least that's how it seemed.

I'm still not entirely sure how that comes back on Mathie, he seems a convenient patsy to me. There's been rumours that Ross and Mathie didn't see eye to eye on transfers but other than Ross's comments after our Euro exit there's never been any real evidence of that I know of.

I agree, that in the short term, we need to either unearth some diamonds cheaply or pay the going rate for the players we've identified. That's if we want to achieve the targets our owner has outlined..atm the momentum built up after the SC win and some decent subsequent seasons has slammed into reverse. You just have to look at the empty stands or read how dull a lot of us are finding Hibs just now. I'm not particularly angry I'm just feeling a bit indifferent about the club just now. I didn't go last night..for the first time in ages and I didn't particularly miss it even tho I 'enjoyed' the second half.

Something isn't right and I'm not sure what it is, I think it goes much deeper than the manager personally.

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[ABZHFC]

I don't think we'll ever know the full story of why our last window was so disappointing. On the face of it we seemed to approach players but just didn't have the finance to get them done, at least that's how it seemed.

I'm still not entirely sure how that comes back on Mathie, he seems a convenient patsy to me. There's been rumours that Ross and Mathie didn't see eye to eye on transfers but other than Ross's comments after our Euro exit there's never been any real evidence of that I know of.

I agree, that in the short term, we need to either unearth some diamonds cheaply or pay the going rate for the players we've identified. That's if we want to achieve the targets our owner has outlined..atm the momentum built up after the SC win and some decent subsequent seasons has slammed into reverse. You just have to look at the empty stands or read how dull a lot of us are finding Hibs just now. I'm not particularly angry I'm just feeling a bit indifferent about the club just now. I didn't go last night..for the first time in ages and I didn't particularly miss it even tho I 'enjoyed' the second half.

Something isn't right and I'm not sure what it is, I think it goes much deeper than the manager personally.

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I completely agree, it has been evident since we sold McGinn after the second leg away to Asteras Tripolis. Club has been faltering at best, declining at worst, since then

[Smartie]

I agree with this. The recruitment left much to be desired and unfortunately we are now left to pay the price of that for this season. Cant imagine a huge amount of significant signings will be made in January - more 'stop-gap' fixes. So, that means pre-season 2022/23 is extremely important and we will have a huge amount of work on our hands to fix failings of the one previous. It might take 2 or 3 transfer windows to shot out in my view. We will see then whether Ron's decisions and appointments have been beneficial.

I don't think Ross is the most tactically diverse/astute manager but at the same time, he doesn't really have the players to mix it up.

25239

Like these guys?

In fairness, they helped turn around a team that was REALLY toiling into one who comfortably avoided relegation and got to a cup final.

Whilst I'm still interested in the business done in January to salvage this season, I'm also interested in seeing some business being lined up early next year for the summer. That's where I think most of our best and most important transfer business is to be done. We have a defence that is going to need a bit of work over the next few years beyond the odd sticking plaster and we need to start adding players who can play in systems of our manager's choice - such as strikers who can play up front on their own etc.

[EI255]

We've been fed this line, and swallowed it whole for far too long, both by the previous Board and it would appear this one too. I think Mathie deserved to go after the last two transfer windows, but I suspect our whole recruitment policy (if there is one) runs deeper than one individual.

The phrase emanated from Leeann Dempster, but it had all the hallmarks of Petrie's "cheap is best" ethos and is largely discredited when we have an injury to one or two key players and the whole team needs to be recast.

It's also especially prevalent and noticeable in the higher profile games such as the Cup Final when St Johnstone had more options off the bench than we did.


We've needed a top-class goalkeeper for long enough, we need competition at Centre Half, and we are crying out for a playmaker to at least rouse us from our slumber once in while under this current manager.

A "quality" squad has its key players in the key positions and adequate options off the bench; we currently have neither, and we certainly don't need to sign last minute stop-gaps contributing nothing.

Ron Gordon talks about one day challenging for the league. That needs "quality" investment Ron...over to you.We need a top class ch. Have done for a very long time too.

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