Sir David Amess stabbed

[AugustaHibs]

Tory MP stabbed at his surgery this morning. Apparently had medical staff working on him for 2 hours before being airlifted to hospital. Really doesn’t sound good.

Regardless of political views this is appalling. After the Jo Cox incident I thought more would’ve been done to avoid these situations.

[bigwheel]

Appalling and really really sad …there are some horrible people have in our midst …..

[wookie70]

Hope he makes a full recovery but it is inevitable that these events will happen given the polarisation of politics and the desperation that is dished out particularly by the Tories. No excuse for such despicable acts and of course we have no idea if this was actually a politically motivated attack or a personal or random act.

[Sir David Gray]

Absolutely horrific to hear about this.

Regardless of your political views, no reasonable person can condone such an attack on an elected member of parliament.

Assuming this is a politically motivated attack (and I realise I may be getting ahead of myself here) there is absolutely no justification for this incident and hopefully it serves as a reminder to everyone across the political spectrum to keep the way they express their views in check.

Really hope he pulls through.

[Sir David Gray]

Sky News confirmed he's died.

So sad.

R.I.P.

25 year old arrested for murder.

[Stairway 2 7]

Terrible so sad, anyone that brings the tories or there policies into the debate is a bafoon. RIP

From brendan Cox brother of Joe

Brendan Cox
@MrBrendanCox
Attacking our elected representatives is an attack on democracy itself. There is no excuse, no justification. It is as cowardly as it gets.

[JimBHibees]

Sky News confirmed he's died.

So sad.

R.I.P.

25 year old arrested for murder.

Shameful to be honest. RIP

[Pretty Boy]

Utterly shocking, the 2nd such event in such a short space of time as well.

It's arguably reflective of how polarised and divisive our politics as a country has become. That shouldn't read an any attempt at explanation, blame or excuse because it isn't.

The concept of murdering someone based on their political beliefs is just so alien to me I can't really comprehend it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Truly appalling stuff. The second MP to be stabbed to death in the past few years. RIP to the guy; he was representing his constituents when his life was taken.

Is there any information on the suspect?

[ronaldo7]

A reminder of Stephen Timms stabbing back in 2010. It looks like they worked on him for a while, but he couldn't pull through. Tragic events for all those involved.

[Sir David Gray]

Truly appalling stuff. The second MP to be stabbed to death in the past few years. RIP to the guy; he was representing his constituents when his life was taken.

Is there any information on the suspect?

Just his age and gender at the moment as far as I'm aware - 25 year old male. The police say they're not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I wonder if this will bring about changes to the way MPs meet their constituents. Perhaps face to face meetings will have to be halted, which would be a shame, but safety has to come first.

[weecounty hibby]

Terrible, terrible thing to happen. No matter your political standpoint, for this to happen to an MP in their office is outrageous. Two MPs killed recently is an affront to democracy and the punishment must be as harsh as is possible. Thoughts are with his family.

[Sylar]

Some of his political stances were completely heinous, and I can imagine many who truly hate what the man stood for.

But murder is no solution...a truly desperate act that will solve nothing.

Tragedy all around.

[Hibrandenburg]

Nobody should have to die for representing their constituents, no matter how much you disagree with their views. I didn't know the guy but going by the cross party praise he's now receiving, it's clear he was a decent man. My thoughts are with the family he leaves behind.

[He's here!]

Horrific.

Political views are irrelevant in such situations. As with the Jo Cox atrocity this is an inhumane act pure and simple.

Beggars belief that we have to ask whether MPs can be expected to continue hosting constituency surgeries when their safety cannot be guaranteed. What, if any, security measures were put in place after Jo Cox died?

[Jim44]

BBC news saying that a male of African appearance was led by police from the scene of the crime.

[He's here!]

BBC news saying that a male of African appearance was led by police from the scene of the crime.

I can't see that mentioned anywhere.

Only police update I see is that they are exploring all avenues and at this stage can't rule out terrorism.

[hibee-boys]

You don’t sit on the back benches for circa 40 years for personal glory, something that many politicians can be accused off as a motive for any political career. Horrendous that another public servant has been murdered trying to help the people they represent. RIP David Amess.

[degenerated]

I can't see that mentioned anywhere.

Only police update I see is that they are exploring all avenues and at this stage can't rule out terrorism.Was on BBC news on TV

[Jim44]

I can't see that mentioned anywhere.

Only police update I see is that they are exploring all avenues and at this stage can't rule out terrorism.

I reran the BBC news report . It said that “an eye witness from opposite the church told the bbC reporter that a woman came out of the church calling an ambulance and then after armed police arrived, he saw a man of African appearance being led away”.

[Santa Cruz]

You don’t sit on the back benches for circa 40 years for personal glory, something that many politicians can be accused off as a motive for any political career. Horrendous that another public servant has been murdered trying to help the people they represent. RIP David Amess.

Was thinking exactly this. A senseless tragedy. RIP.

[Stairway 2 7]

Lizzie Dearden
@lizziedearden
The Independent understands that the suspect is of Somali origin and the suspected motivation is Islamist

Investigators are looking at his phone/online history and any potential mental health issue

[Sir David Gray]

You don’t sit on the back benches for circa 40 years for personal glory, something that many politicians can be accused off as a motive for any political career. Horrendous that another public servant has been murdered trying to help the people they represent. RIP David Amess.

:agree: Absolutely, well said.

[Glory Lurker]

A tragedy for the victim and his family, and for democracy. There will be many worried representatives this evening as well as their families. It should never be like this.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Lizzie Dearden
@lizziedearden
The Independent understands that the suspect is of Somali origin and the suspected motivation is Islamist

Investigators are looking at his phone/online history and any potential mental health issue

It will all come out in time, but the early indication is pointing towards Islamic fundamentalism. When you add that to a sense of political and economic grievance, plus whatever personal issues someone is dealing with, and the results can be catastrophic. As everyone knows, it wasn't the first such attack, nor will it be the last. We will also now have the right wing media and pundits again foaming at the mouth about Muslims and immigrants, which all adds to the toxic mix. The voices of reason can find themselves drowned out when something like this happens, as the loudmouths will use the poor man's death for their own political agendas.

[Crunchie]

It will all come out in time, but the early indication is pointing towards Islamic fundamentalism. When you add that to a sense of political and economic grievance, plus whatever personal issues someone is dealing with, and the results can be catastrophic. As everyone knows, it wasn't the first such attack, nor will it be the last. We will also now have the right wing media and pundits again foaming at the mouth about Muslims and immigrants, which all adds to the toxic mix. The voices of reason can find themselves drowned out when something like this happens, as the loudmouths will use the poor man's death for their own political agendas.
It's a sad state of affairs when you can't just condemn a barbaric act without the name calling and putting your own political slant on it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's a sad state of affairs when you can't just condemn a barbaric act without the name calling and putting your own political slant on it.

It's inevitable, sadly, if it's confirmed the killer is a Muslim Somali. The You Tube comments sections are already cess pools of poison and bigotry. The poor guy isn't even cold yet and the debate has descended into the gutter. The human tragedy and compassion for the victim are abandoned.

[weecounty hibby]

Anyone who uses this poor man's death for political gain is the lowest of the low. No matter the motivation of the murderer I'm sure that no one wants to see an escalation of violence.

[Radium]

To have two MPs murdered because they were accessible to the communities they chose to serve is a tragedy.

It doesn’t matter what party, it’s simply atrocious. This close to his death, thoughts are with family and friends who, when they last saw him, couldn’t have imagined the circumstances that would have meant that he wasn’t coming home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

A decent man killed whilst serving his community. It’s really hard to get your head round the mindset of anybody who would carry out such an act.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's a real shame that this thread has descended into political point scoring, instigated by some who had maybe hoped it would descend into political point scoring but were obviously disappointed that it had remained civil so they then took it into their own hands.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's inevitable, sadly, if it's confirmed the killer is a Muslim Somali. The You Tube comments sections are already cess pools of poison and bigotry. The poor guy isn't even cold yet and the debate has descended into the gutter. The human tragedy and compassion for the victim are abandoned.

The man arrested is a British citizen, of somali origin according to sky news. Possibly not first generation so not a refugee or immigrant.

[Santa Cruz]

I think elected officials need to change the way they hold constituent surgeries. I know it's important they are accessible to their local communities, however the risk of this type of attack happening again is too high. Maybe opening a central council building once a week where there is existing security protocols, with several officials in their own allocated space in the one setting would give them more reassurance with safety in numbers. For constituents who couldn't travel maybe a phone appointment would suffice. They're all at risk, something has to change.

[wookie70]

I think elected officials need to change the way they hold constituent surgeries. I know it's important they are accessible to their local communities, however the risk of this type of attack happening again is too high. Maybe opening a central council building once a week where there is existing security protocols, with several officials in their own allocated space in the one setting would give them more reassurance with safety in numbers. For constituents who couldn't travel maybe a phone appointment would suffice. They're all at risk, something has to change.

Possibly no need for it to be in person any longer. Local zoom suite that is in a library or similar so everyone can either dial in from their own equipment or use a discrete room in a council building.

[He's here!]

I reran the BBC news report . It said that “an eye witness from opposite the church told the bbC reporter that a woman came out of the church calling an ambulance and then after armed police arrived, he saw a man of African appearance being led away”.

Cheers, I had only been following the story online and hadn't seen the footage you mention. I see now that the killer appears to be of Somali origin and that (tellingly) counter-terrorism police are now leading the investigation. I assume that means we're looking at Islamic extremism as the suspected cause. Does that make this any easier to understand? I don't know, but whoever is capable of stabbing a defenceless man (aged almost 70) multiple times in cold blood surely has to be of a different mental make-up to the vast majority of us.

The barbaric nature of this incident is really shocking and, as with Jo Cox, you can't help but be moved by seeing how widely liked and respected David Amess was. Senseless.

[He's here!]

Possibly no need for it to be in person any longer. Local zoom suite that is in a library or similar so everyone can either dial in from their own equipment or use a discrete room in a council building.

It sounds as though the fact he had always made himself so accessible for face-to-face meetings was a key part of the reason for his popularity as a local MP. Zoom calls can't replicate that sort of personal interaction. It would be a terrible shame if that accessibility was removed from our elected representatives, but after this it's become ever more clear that no MP can go about their constituency business confident that they are safe from harm.

[Santa Cruz]

It sounds as though the fact he had always made himself so accessible for face-to-face meetings was a key part of the reason for his popularity as a local MP. Zoom calls can't replicate that sort of personal interaction. It would be a terrible shame if that accessibility was removed from our elected representatives, but after this it's become ever more clear that no MP can go about their constituency business confident that they are safe from harm.

...also Devolved members in the home nations and Councillors. Personal safety guidance for Councillors here. I assume the same advice is issued to politicians.

https://www.highpeak.gov.uk/media/892/Part-5-Personal-Safety---Guidance-for-Councillors/pdf/Part_5_-_Personal_safety_-_Guidance_for_Councillors.pdf?m=1618586598673

[Sir David Gray]

Absolutely sickening.

The killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared a terrorist incident by police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-essex-58929701?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=616a10d79ceecf0ab2ddbb73%26Sir%20David %20Amess%20killing%20was%20terrorist%20incident%2C %20say%20police%262021-10-15T23%3A38%3A25.038Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:d3fa419e-eafb-46dd-9b4e-c4ed0676457e&pinned_post_asset_id=616a10d79ceecf0ab2ddbb73&pinned_post_type=share

[Hibernia&Alba]

Absolutely sickening.

The killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared a terrorist incident by police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-essex-58929701?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=616a10d79ceecf0ab2ddbb73%26Sir%20David %20Amess%20killing%20was%20terrorist%20incident%2C %20say%20police%262021-10-15T23%3A38%3A25.038Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:d3fa419e-eafb-46dd-9b4e-c4ed0676457e&pinned_post_asset_id=616a10d79ceecf0ab2ddbb73&pinned_post_type=share

Yes, completely senseless. Time will tell whether it was motivated purely by nihilism or if the guy has other issues. Another grim episode.

[Berwickhibby]

A shocking criminal act committed on a public servant doing his duty, R.I.P Sir Divid Amess.

[Smartie]

It would be a really awful step for the UK if we accepted we'd reached a place where MPs could no longer meet the public face to face due to safety concerns.

One of the best things about UK democracy is that openness, and the fact that irrespective of your own political views you can go to a surgery and be helped by someone in a time of need. We've had a few controversial figures here in Edinburgh who have held positions in unpopular administrations who have been widely acknowledged to be "good local MPs".

I also like the free speech that is generally enjoyed in the UK and FWIW here in the Holy Ground. In this country we can be very vocal with our disapproval of our politicians, or our fellow citizens with differing political beliefs - then just get on with supporting Hibs together.

It's almost better in a way that this might be a terrorist attack - as that might not suggest we need to alter the way we speak. A link between vocal condemnation of conservative policy raising temperature and leading to attacks on prominent (or accessible) Tory figures would be deeply concerning. That's what happened with Jo Cox, but it appears at this stage to be that that is not the case here. We could find ourselves in a very dangerous place is criticism of Tory policy, which can have a hugely detrimental effect on millions of people, were to have to be reined in as a result of this disgusting attack.

[He's here!]

Yes, completely senseless. Time will tell whether it was motivated purely by nihilism or if the guy has other issues. Another grim episode.

I almost hope he had other issues because it's so hard to get your head around how somebody of supposedly rational mind could act in such an inhumane manner. I note that the man responsible for the horrendous bow and arrow killings in Norway is currently being held in a psychiatric medical facility.

I read that the constituents who were waiting in the church for Sir David had to provide names and addresses prior to going in, which you imagine might have raised a red flag regarding this individual but then I'm guessing the checks were unlikely to be especially thorough - or perhaps the guy had gained access by other means.

[AltheHibby]

It was good to see the leaders of the Government and largest opposition parties leaving flowers at the scene. I notice that they didn't speak to the press, which is good on this occasion as a dignified silence speaks more than words.

RIP Sir David

[James310]

We could find ourselves in a very dangerous place is criticism of Tory policy, which can have a hugely detrimental effect on millions of people, were to have to be reined in as a result of this disgusting attack.

Agreed, and I don't think anyone on here can argue with people criticising a Tory policy, attack the policy but when it turns into comments about attacking the people that make that policy it goes too far. The point I was making is some overstep the mark when it comes to the Tory's, the comment I was referencing was a comment about some pretty graphic violence against Michael Gove, the Admins deleted it saying it went too far so they obviously agreed.

[Santa Cruz]

It would be a really awful step for the UK if we accepted we'd reached a place where MPs could no longer meet the public face to face due to safety concerns.

One of the best things about UK democracy is that openness, and the fact that irrespective of your own political views you can go to a surgery and be helped by someone in a time of need. We've had a few controversial figures here in Edinburgh who have held positions in unpopular administrations who have been widely acknowledged to be "good local MPs".

I also like the free speech that is generally enjoyed in the UK and FWIW here in the Holy Ground. In this country we can be very vocal with our disapproval of our politicians, or our fellow citizens with differing political beliefs - then just get on with supporting Hibs together.

It's almost better in a way that this might be a terrorist attack - as that might not suggest we need to alter the way we speak. A link between vocal condemnation of conservative policy raising temperature and leading to attacks on prominent (or accessible) Tory figures would be deeply concerning. That's what happened with Jo Cox, but it appears at this stage to be that that is not the case here. We could find ourselves in a very dangerous place is criticism of Tory policy, which can have a hugely detrimental effect on millions of people, were to have to be reined in as a result of this disgusting attack.


It's not about the right to criticise politicians of any Party (that comes with the job and they know that). It's about their right to carry out their job assured they and their staff are safe from any face to face threats or physical attacks. This could happen to any elected official. They need a review to stop this type of attack happening again.

[Smartie]

It's not about the right to criticise politicians of any Party (that comes with the job and they know that). It's about their right to carry out their job assured they and their staff are safe from any face to face threats or physical attacks. This could happen to any elected official. They need a review to stop this type of attack happening again.

I guess that’s the problem if this is a terrorist attack - what do we do to stop further attacks?

There are huge security arrangements at Westminster to prevent an attack on multiple politicians, but it appears we might have nothing in place to prevent individual attacks.

It would be a sad day if that had to be the case, but maybe that time has come?

It’s another subject altogether but there’s something powerful and useful about being able to communicate with someone face to face and without a mask on. Zoom is all well and good but we’re losing out on some of our most visceral ways of communication. It would be very sad if we’d reached that stage, although of course I understand if we have.

[Santa Cruz]

I guess that’s the problem if this is a terrorist attack - what do we do to stop further attacks?

There are huge security arrangements at Westminster to prevent an attack on multiple politicians, but it appears we might have nothing in place to prevent individual attacks.

It would be a sad day if that had to be the case, but maybe that time has come?

It’s another subject altogether but there’s something powerful and useful about being able to communicate with someone face to face and without a mask on. Zoom is all well and good but we’re losing out on some of our most visceral ways of communication. It would be very sad if we’d reached that stage, although of course I understand if we have.

I agree, that's why I suggested a communal Council building maybe opening on a weekend day with politicians from all constituency's meeting their constituents in one setting within their own allocated space in a main conference room. They're usually centrally located so still quite accessible. These buildings have existing security, cameras etc and if it was me I would feel more reassured with a safety in numbers approach. Obvs wouldn't suit everyone, so other modes could be offered as an alternative. This can't be allowed to happen again, it's just not worth the risk imo.

[Pretty Boy]

I've just deleted 20+ posts on this thread.

If 2 or 3 people don't engage their brains they will be finding themselves with warning, infractions or bans. Can others please refrain from responsing to them as it just creates a bigger job to tidy up and manage. If you feel something crosses a line, report it and it will be dealt with.

Thank you.

[Bangkok Hibby]

What actually crossed a line? Who's line? This place is getting more sanitised by the day.

[Pretty Boy]

What actually crossed a line? Who's line? This place is getting more sanitised by the day.

It crossed the line of basic decency.

If you don't like decision to delete posts then PM another admin and they can look at it with a fresh pair of eyes. I'm not getting involved in a public argument about it after asking others to refrain from doing exactly that on this thread.

[Santa Cruz]

It crossed the line of basic decency.

If you don't like decision to delete posts then PM another admin and they can look at it with a fresh pair of eyes. I'm not getting involved in a public argument about it after asking others to refrain from doing exactly that on this thread.

I'm not clear what I said to cross a line, I see one of my posts was deleted. Apologies to anyone I offended.

[Bangkok Hibby]

I'm not clear what I said to cross a line, I see one of my posts was deleted. Apologies to anyone I offended.

And mine. You didn't offend me. I see no reason to apologise for anything posted in this thread.

[marinello59]

I'm not clear what I said to cross a line, I see one of my posts was deleted. Apologies to anyone I offended.

You hadn’t said anything offensive, your post just got caught up in the tidy up. ( Removing quoted posts etc.)

[marinello59]

And mine. You didn't offend me. I see no reason to apologise for anything posted in this thread.

I’ll politely ask you to please stick to the topic from now on with this one.

[Santa Cruz]

You hadn’t said anything offensive, your post just got caught up in the tidy up. ( Removing quoted posts etc.)

Ok.

[AltheHibby]

Excellent. This is a tremendous tribute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58956615

[Northernhibee]

Excellent. This is a tremendous tribute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58956615

Indeed.

It also angers me further that Johnson claimed in Parliament that the best way to honour Jo Cox was to “Get Brexit Done”.

Both deserve a decent tribute, and I apologise for bringing politics into it.

[AltheHibby]

Indeed.

It also angers me further that Johnson claimed in Parliament that the best way to honour Jo Cox was to “Get Brexit Done”.

Both deserve a decent tribute, and I apologise for bringing politics into it.

Agreed.

[He's here!]

BBC breaking news: IS fanatic found guilty of murdering Sir David Amess

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61026210