S Clarke

[at last 61]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

[Jones28]

If he wins tonight and against Moldova he will get his shot at the play offs. Anything else and yes, he can go for me.

[HH81]

Prior to Clarke, Scotland were hopeless.

Now they are in with a great chance of the world Cup.

Huge over reaction.

[CentreLine]

Prior to Clarke, Scotland were hopeless.

Now they are in with a great chance of the world Cup.

Huge over reaction.

Agreed. And in any case they might comes calling fir Jack Ross

[at last 61]

Never rated him as a manager, good assistant but manager, not for me

[Pretty Boy]

He took us to the Euros. It looks highly likely he will take us to the WC play offs.

That's better than any Scotland manager has managed in 2 decades. If he takes us to the WC it will be the same achievement as what our much vaunted sides of the past managed.

I'm not his biggest fan but he is going nowhere any time soon and that's as it should be.

[Scouse Hibee]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

Are you on the wind up? Has massively improved Scotland, took you to the Euros and still could take you to the WC and you want him to go! Unbelievable post.

[HoboHarry]

He took us to the Euros. It looks highly likely he will take us to the WC play offs.

That's better than any Scotland manager has managed in 2 decades. If he takes us to the WC it will be the same achievement as what our much vaunted sides of the past managed.

I'm not his biggest fan but he is going nowhere any time soon and that's as it should be.
Absolutely correct. :agree:

[stokesmessiah]

He took us to the Euros. It looks highly likely he will take us to the WC play offs.

That's better than any Scotland manager has managed in 2 decades. If he takes us to the WC it will be the same achievement as what our much vaunted sides of the past managed.

I'm not his biggest fan but he is going nowhere any time soon and that's as it should be.

Correct. Can’t believe some of the comments on here.

[McSwanky]

Football fans can be a funny bunch. The guy has done really well compared to anyone else in recent memory, and really has the team working hard for each other. There's real team spirit there, which can't be underestimated. Unbelievable that people are calling for his head.

[ScottB]

Feels like we’ve improved from being hopeless, to scrapping through by the skin of our teeth under him, which is still progress I guess.

[lord bunberry]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon
Aye magic, thanks for your input please come again.

[JimBHibees]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

Rocket :greengrin

[BS44]

Never rated him as a manager, good assistant but manager, not for me

Getting Kilmarnock to third and also Europe was just really damn lucky then?

[cabbageandribs1875]

clarke must stay
clarke must stay










for now :)

[The Spaceman]

Prior to Clarke, Scotland were hopeless.

Now they are in with a great chance of the world Cup.

Huge over reaction.

This is true. He’s getting us into positions we wouldn’t have dreamed of 5 years ago.

[Hibbyradge]

I think they said that Denmark won 1-0 in the Faroes with a goal in the 86th minute.

Everyone knew they were hard to breakdown and the team stayed professional, stayed patient and got the job done.

Clarke has turned Scotland around. We're not a Rolls Royce yet, but the real rot has stopped.

[greenginger]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon


And who who would you choose to replace him?

[hibby rae]

And who who would you choose to replace him?

Levein's available

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Clarke has got us winning the games that we should be winning.

[CmoantheHibs]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon
Take a look at his record. The isreal game was superb entertainment, tonight not so but we have gone from a team doing nothing to a team competing for major finals qualification.

[Tully]

Let's be honest that was garbage, wrong team and a manager very stubborn to admit it with such slow changes, we got out of jail only by the skin of our teeth

[lord bunberry]

I think they said that Denmark won 1-0 in the Faroes with a goal in the 86th minute.

Everyone knew they were hard to breakdown and the team stayed professional, stayed patient and got the job done.

Clarke has turned Scotland around. We're not a Rolls Royce yet, but the real rot has stopped.
They’re not the mugs they used to be. It was all about getting the win, Denmark struggled, Austria struggled and so did we. People expecting us to blow them away we’re kidding themselves on.

[hibbysam]

Luckiest manager in our history. Scraped to the euros via penalties, scraping points with horrendous performances in this group. 5 at the back and 1 up front in the Faroes is woeful.

[MWHIBBIES]

Never rated him as a manager, good assistant but manager, not for me

Took Kilmarnock from bottom to 3rd in 18 months. He is more than capable as a manager.

If he takes Scotland to the world cup that far out weights anything he achieved as an assistant

[007]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

Aye okay. Maybe you're not inspired but the players seem to buy into what he's doing and that's what is important, not what you think.

Go on then, who is your alternative & realitic suggestion that would do better? No cop out with the "that's not my job to find someone else" type line.

[B.H.F.C]

No his biggest fan but can’t argue with this campaign. Need to go a fair bit back to see Scotland with 17 points from 8 games in a qualification campaign.

Think there is more to come (or more to be gotten) from this team though.

[WeeRussell]

Luckiest manager in our history. Scraped to the euros via penalties, scraping points with horrendous performances in this group. 5 at the back and 1 up front in the Faroes is woeful.

He’s that lucky he’s even fooling you into thinking we’re playing formations we aren’t.

Tonight was far from good. But we continue to pick up results and anyone who actually follows the national team and attends games are thoroughly enjoying the ride.

I didn’t love the starting lineup and thought he took far too long to make changes.. but this OP is pathetic.

[stuart-farquhar]

Prior to Clarke, Scotland were hopeless.

Now they are in with a great chance of the world Cup.

Huge over reaction.
Those where the days! Oops wrong!forum

[blackpoolhibs]

Another manager who's lucky when we win, and pish when we lose.:rolleyes:

[The dalmeny]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

rockets like you can gtf

[007]

Another manager who's lucky when we win, and pish when we lose.:rolleyes:

And doesn't win the big games because winning on penalties doesn't count.

[CropleyWasGod]

rockets like you can gtf

Who would you replace them with? 😆

[hibbysam]

He’s that lucky he’s even fooling you into thinking we’re playing formations we aren’t.

Tonight was far from good. But we continue to pick up results and anyone who actually follows the national team and attends games are thoroughly enjoying the ride.

I didn’t love the starting lineup and thought he took far too long to make changes.. but this OP is pathetic.

I follow the team, I attend the games… enjoying the late winners but the turgid performances are potentially costing us a seeded slot due to our goal difference.

We beat Moldova 1-0, faroes 1-0 both terrible performances, Israel first half was dreadful, pumped by Denmark and the draws against Austria and Israel were poor performances.

The results have picked up and we’re in a good place generally but if you enjoy the performances then you’re at it. Gordon stopped that from being a doing tonight.

[WeeRussell]

Another manager who's lucky when we win, and pish when we lose.:rolleyes:

Exactly - we got away with it a bit tonight. But even when things are going well, like in club football, you have games where you aren’t at your best and you just want to pick up results.

Tonight was one of those. But after another win, let the folk that were sitting choking on us not getting that winner stew and stick the boot in.

[JimBHibees]

Luckiest manager in our history. Scraped to the euros via penalties, scraping points with horrendous performances in this group. 5 at the back and 1 up front in the Faroes is woeful.

It's not five at the back is it

[HoboHarry]

Idiotic opening post then the OP vanishes. Imagine that.

[mcohibs]

Luckiest manager in our history. Scraped to the euros via penalties, scraping points with horrendous performances in this group. 5 at the back and 1 up front in the Faroes is woeful.

He didn't start with one up front though did he? He started with two up top and our most prolific goalscorer McGinn sitting behind them.

Describing playing with two wingbacks as 5 at the back is also a bit disingenuous but each to their own.

[007]

Who would you replace them with? 😆

Anti-vaxxers, we need more of those. 🙃

[stoneyburn hibs]

Some really harsh comments.
I don't know what some people expect, it's Scotland and every game will be tough.

Clarke has got us in a position that we could qualify for another tournament.
We're winning whilst not always playing well,building momentum with 4 wins in a row.

[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly - we got away with it a bit tonight. But even when things are going well, like in club football, you have games where you aren’t at your best and you just want to pick up results.

Tonight was one of those. But after another win, let the folk that were sitting choking on us not getting that winner stew and stick the boot in.

:agree:
We are qualifying for tournaments now, we are winning games, if he's not improving us i dont know what improvement is.

[Stevie Reid]

Doing an excellent job.

[Hibbyradge]

Who would you replace them with? 😆

:faf: :top marks

[Callyballybe]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

🤦

[Bostonhibby]

Who would you replace them with? [emoji38]Craig levein has been mentioned above as being available

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[mcohibs]

Gordon stopped that from being a doing tonight.

'A doing'?? You're absolutely at it mate. They had 3 shots on target and 33% possession

[Kato]

I'd keep him as manager. Rather have someone who is lucky than someone with "qualifications".

He's boring but lucky. Hopefully the more loyal he is, the more the players give and that we find the habit of goals.

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[hibbysam]

He didn't start with one up front though did he? He started with two up top and our most prolific goalscorer McGinn sitting behind them.

Describing playing with two wingbacks as 5 at the back is also a bit disingenuous but each to their own.

It was one up front with McGinn and Christie in behind - like we play fairly often. Tonight wasn’t a night for that. Especially when Christie drifts wide. It’s hardly disingenuous - it never worked and we got very fortunate.

It’s highly unlikely we will be seeded unless we get a result against the Danes - a huge game. That’s all down to our goal difference.

[WeeRussell]

I follow the team, I attend the games… enjoying the late winners but the turgid performances are potentially costing us a seeded slot due to our goal difference.

We beat Moldova 1-0, faroes 1-0 both terrible performances, Israel first half was dreadful, pumped by Denmark and the draws against Austria and Israel were poor performances.

The results have picked up and we’re in a good place generally but if you enjoy the performances then you’re at it. Gordon stopped that from being a doing tonight.

I was quite clear - “tonight was far from good”.

If you expect me to come on hibs.net raging after yet another victory and step towards qualifying for the World Cup, because our goal difference could be a bit better - you’re at it.

Of all these “terrible performances” you can list, we’ve lost one game (against a team who haven’t conceded a goal all campaign).. we must be a hell of a team.

[007]

Idiotic opening post then the OP vanishes. Imagine that.

Trolling / attention seeking. A post on the match thread wasn't enough, had to start a Clarke out thread 20 minutes before the match had even finished. Okay it wasn't great but even Denmark, the 10th ranked team in the world, only beat them 1-0 with a late goal.

[WeeRussell]

'A doing'?? You're absolutely at it mate. They had 3 shots on target and 33% possession

Forgot to mention that point in my reply 👍

Gordon had one superb save in the first half. Presumably that would have been worth 3 goals as we were headed for a doing had he not stopped it.

[Gordy M]

I follow the team, I attend the games… enjoying the late winners but the turgid performances are potentially costing us a seeded slot due to our goal difference.

We beat Moldova 1-0, faroes 1-0 both terrible performances, Israel first half was dreadful, pumped by Denmark and the draws against Austria and Israel were poor performances.

The results have picked up and we’re in a good place generally but if you enjoy the performances then you’re at it. Gordon stopped that from being a doing tonight.

We played austria at home before they went to the euros and played so well folk on here were claiming that we were out the qualifying as they were too good for us......we went over there and beat them. We pumped Faroes at home, beat Israel, and managed wins against Moldova home and Faroes away......so we are so bad, or lucky, we lost one game away to Denmark who are yet to concede a goal. Can you please explain where you expected us to win where we havent done so?

[Stevie Reid]

We went from qualifying for major tournaments regularly until 1998, to getting to playoffs and losing, to almost getting to playoffs, to getting nowhere near playoffs under Levein - before almost getting to playoffs again under Strachan.

Clarke has already taken us to the Euros (almost unthinkable when he took over) and we have a great chance of securing a WC play off with one game to spare (and I’m not even sure if every second place finish secures a playoff in the European section?).

I don’t think he could have done better to this point, actually. Anyone seriously calling for his head is at it - or has a very, very short memory.

[hibbysam]

I'd keep him as manager. Rather have someone who is lucky than someone with "qualifications".

He's boring but lucky. Hopefully the more loyal he is, the more the players give and that we find the habit of goals.

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I’m on the fence with him but he really needs to improve the performances. In the main they’ve been very poor but he pulls results out when they’re required - see Austria away and the two games this week. Won’t keep getting away with that, and we should be looking to kick on and try and qualify directly in future without playoffs.

[mcohibs]

It was one up front with McGinn and Christie in behind - like we play fairly often. Tonight wasn’t a night for that. Especially when Christie drifts wide. It’s hardly disingenuous - it never worked and we got very fortunate.

It’s highly unlikely we will be seeded unless we get a result against the Danes - a huge game. That’s all down to our goal difference.

What formation would you have went with tonight?

[hibbysam]

I was quite clear - “tonight was far from good”.

If you expect me to come on hibs.net raging after yet another victory and step towards qualifying for the World Cup, because our goal difference could be a bit better - you’re at it.

Of all these “terrible performances” you can list, we’ve lost one game (against a team who haven’t conceded a goal all campaign).. we must be a hell of a team.

Is it a step closer tonight? Arguably the lack of goals may cost us a seeded and therefore home/easier draw in the play off. Unless we somehow get a result against the unbeatable Danes.

[WeeRussell]

It was one up front with McGinn and Christie in behind - like we play fairly often. Tonight wasn’t a night for that. Especially when Christie drifts wide. It’s hardly disingenuous - it never worked and we got very fortunate.

It’s highly unlikely we will be seeded unless we get a result against the Danes - a huge game. That’s all down to our goal difference.

It wasn’t.

And no. The huge game is against Moldova. Another win there and we have done well and achieved second place which is the target.

[hibbysam]

It wasn’t.

And no. The huge game is against Moldova. Another win there and we have done well and achieved second place which is the target.

You think Christie played up front? Very good. No good finishing second, being unseeded and drawing Portugal or Spain away. That could’ve been avoided.

[WeeRussell]

Is it a step closer tonight? Arguably the lack of goals may cost us a seeded and therefore home/easier draw in the play off. Unless we somehow get a result against the unbeatable Danes.

Yes it’s a step closer, it’s another 3 points. Another one of those wins and we’ve secured second. That’s probably why Clarke, the players, faddy and every Scotland fan were talking of the importance of getting another win tonight.

You must be the only scotland ‘supporter’ greeting about goal difference right now.

[hibbysam]

Yes it’s a step closer, it’s another 3 points. Another one of those wins and we’ve secured second. That’s probably why Clarke, the players, faddy and every Scotland fan were talking of the importance of getting another win tonight.

You must be the only scotland ‘supporter’ greeting about goal difference right now.

It’s a win - it’s a great win if we beat Denmark or somehow results go our way otherwise. It’s not just about finishing second but also about being seeded. It’s huge for our chances of qualifying - would be strange not to be worried about that.

I said before the game we’d win even if we played poor - but if we had played well then we could’ve built up a decent bit of goal difference - likewise if we hadn’t been so poor first half last week.

[WeeRussell]

You think Christie played up front? Very good. No good finishing second, being unseeded and drawing Portugal or Spain away. That could’ve been avoided.

I don’t think he was great at it and wouldn’t have been my choice, but yes, when Clarke said pre-match “Ryan Christie comes in up front” I took it that Christie was being asked to play up front.

[Sir David Gray]

I’m on the fence with him but he really needs to improve the performances. In the main they’ve been very poor but he pulls results out when they’re required - see Austria away and the two games this week. Won’t keep getting away with that, and we should be looking to kick on and try and qualify directly in future without playoffs.

It wasn't that long ago that we were finishing 4th in our qualifying groups and now we're on the verge of qualifying for the play offs of the World Cup.

Of course tonight's performance was grim and the aim should be to try and compete with the big boys but I think we need to be realistic and realise that we were in the doldrums not so long ago and getting to the play offs would be significant progress.

Assuming there's no collapse v Moldova I think talk of Clarke being under pressure is nonsense.

[Callum_62]

My word.

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[ClermistonGreen]

Those Egyptian rulers are no mugs !

[hibbysam]

It wasn't that long ago that we were finishing 4th in our qualifying groups and now we're on the verge of qualifying for the play offs of the World Cup.

Of course tonight's performance was grim and the aim should be to try and compete with the big boys but I think we need to be realistic and realise that we were in the doldrums not so long ago and getting to the play offs would be significant progress.

Assuming there's no collapse v Moldova I think talk of Clarke being under pressure is nonsense.

Of course it’s huge progress but we also have a very competitive team now playing at the highest level. It’s all relevant. I don’t just want to take part in the playoffs - I want a realistic chance of qualifying and being honest I don’t see any way in which we beat Portugal, Spain away. So being seeded is huge in my mind.

[Gordy M]

It’s a win - it’s a great win if we beat Denmark or somehow results go our way otherwise. It’s not just about finishing second but also about being seeded. It’s huge for our chances of qualifying - would be strange not to be worried about that.

I said before the game we’d win even if we played poor - but if we had played well then we could’ve built up a decent bit of goal difference - likewise if we hadn’t been so poor first half last week.

Whilst seeding is important, remember its groups of four, so even if we were seeded and won, chamces are we play the other seeded team in the 'final'.

[hibbysam]

Whilst seeding is important, remember its groups of four, so even if we were seeded and won, chamces are we play the other seeded team in the 'final'.

Yeah, with a 50/50 chance of it being at home (I think).

[andudare2]

Let's be honest that was garbage, wrong team and a manager very stubborn to admit it with such slow changes, we got out of jail only by the skin of our teethwould that be the jail we had been in sincec1998 football wise? Admittedly he is not the most inspiring or flamboyant of managers but the guy has at least got us to a major and now giving us a fair chance of qualifying for another. Wonder if the Danes were calling for their gaffer to be punted after their late winner over the Faroes or is it just a Scottish thing.

[KeithTheHibby]

Bizarre team selection this evening with Christie and Fraser playing however got the result in the end which is what it’s all about.

[The Modfather]

Think tonight was the ideal result. Scotland win and now have one foot in the playoffs, yet it still gives enough ammunition for people to call for Clarke’s head and criticise the goal difference. Everyone gets what they were hoping for.

[tamig]

Never rated him as a manager, good assistant but manager, not for me

Aye he was terrible at Killie right enough. What a bizarre thread.

[jacomo]

Prior to Clarke, Scotland were hopeless.

Now they are in with a great chance of the world Cup.

Huge over reaction.


:agree:

I honestly don’t know what people want.

The Scotland supporters who went to Hampden at the weekend seemed happy enough, that will do for me.

If we don’t make it to the World Cup, there’s a discussion to be had about Clarke and whether he should continue in the role (and whether he wants to). But right now he’s doing a fine job.

[cannastar]

no question steve clarke has to stay bit by bit we are building a decent side even if tonights performance wasnt fantastic it was still a win. yes we got the rub of the green but how many times have we not got the rub of the green in the past. just enjoy whats happening players are playing for him and i believe he is also self improving as a manager so long may it continue.

[Bobby's Cinema]

4 wins on the spin and on the brink of the play offs is is excellent return for us.

We have no devine right to beat anyone.

For me it was an attitude thing first half - it looks a pattern to me through the campaign that it takes the peril of a situation (goal down to Israel, away in Denmark towards the end, time running out tonight) for us to loosen up and play our best stuff with freedom. In general IMO we are a little too passive for my liking early in games, but can't argue with the results. Feeds into the 'being hard to beat first and foremost that comes from the manager.

Can't believe Any sensible Scotland fan would be advocating a change in manager at this stage.

[patlowe]

Aye he was terrible at Killie right enough. What a bizarre thread.

And West Brom's record league finish in the English Prem. Has to be trolling, surely 🤣

[Unseen work]

In two minds about him.

Don’t really like him (don’t know him in fairness) but he has done a hell of a job progressing us and getting us to major tournaments.

He’s done the best out of any Scotland manager in a long time.

But, this is the best Scotland team in a long time IMO.

I still think we can get more out of the current squad if we can be more positive, like the second half against Israel. But that’s as a fan, as a manager he will know that in international football it’s cagey to begin with and you want to give yourself a chance.

The Scotland team now and one in the future with upcoming stars is in great shape, the only real position we’re lacking is keeper and striker but the bulk of our squad as in their prime and only getting better

Calvin Ramsay
Josh Doig
John Souter
Ryan Porteous

All have potential to go into the national team. We’ll have lots of options, even young guys we have like Magennis, Tait and McKay etc they’ll all have their eyes on breaking into it. Whether it happens or not is a different story but they’re good young Scottish players.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Moldova away will be tough really tough but it's a great credit to the manager and the players that Scotland have a real fighting chance of the World Cup play offs.

Its a limited team lacking creativity but full of character but with little else to offer outwith 13 players.

Lots of seethe and self loathing around tonight though as it hurts a certain section of the population when anything positive happens in Scottish society.

[hibbysam]

Moldova away will be tough really tough but it's a great credit to the manager and the players that Scotland have a real fighting chance of the World Cup play offs.

Its a limited team lacking creativity but full of character but with little else to offer outwith 13 players.

Lots of seethe and self loathing around tonight though as it hurts a certain section of the population when anything positive happens in Scottish society.

Moldova should be anything but tough. They’re one of the worst international sides in the world and if Scotland turn up with the right attitude they’ll win comfortably.

I also don’t agree that this side lack creativity and have ‘little else than character’ - the majority of the boys play in the English premier league, they must have something about them.

[007]

Football fans can be a funny bunch. The guy has done really well compared to anyone else in recent memory, and really has the team working hard for each other. There's real team spirit there, which can't be underestimated. Unbelievable that people are calling for his head.

It's a little surprising there's anyone on here calling for his head at this precise moment. They're a bit daft with their timing to do it now. Don't know when we last won 4 games in a row in a qualifying competition.

It is a bit less surprising if its happening on other social media. No doubt mostly Rangers fans unhappy at his "Bye bye Rangers" from a few years ago which was not long after their anti-Catholic chants aimed at him.

[Sir David Gray]

Moldova away will be tough really tough but it's a great credit to the manager and the players that Scotland have a real fighting chance of the World Cup play offs.

Its a limited team lacking creativity but full of character but with little else to offer outwith 13 players.

Lots of seethe and self loathing around tonight though as it hurts a certain section of the population when anything positive happens in Scottish society.

Playing Moldova really shouldn't be really tough although if we play like we did against the Faroes then I agree it will be.

Moldova are currently ranked 180th in the world (the 4th worst team in Europe) and have conceded an average of 3 goals per game so far in the group and only score once on average every 2 games.

We should not be having any trouble with winning this one.

[gbhibby]

He got lucky tonight. His starting 11 was a bit bizarre. Did not see what the shape was meant to be. Ryan Christie is not the player he was 2 years ago. Should have picked the strongest 11 to get the job done. He is too loyal to certain players who are not on form. Needs to get a shape and system that plays to players strengths.
Still it was 3 points but need to get the job done next game and the Denmark game should be treated as a must win to provide the springboard for the play offs.
Should stick with the manager but he needs to grow a pair and be less loyal to players who are not performing.

[May21/05/216]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broonThat's the sprit

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[mcohibs]

He got lucky tonight. His starting 11 was a bit bizarre. Did not see what the shape was meant to be. Ryan Christie is not the player he was 2 years ago. Should have picked the strongest 11 to get the job done. He is too loyal to certain players who are not on form. Needs to get a shape and system that plays to players strengths.
Still it was 3 points but need to get the job done next game and the Denmark game should be treated as a must win to provide the springboard for the play offs.
Should stick with the manager but he needs to grow a pair and be less loyal to players who are not performing.

What shape would you have went with?

[JimBHibees]

Yeah, with a 50/50 chance of it being at home (I think).

How do they decide where the play off finals are played. Knowing FIFA it will probably be nonsense such as highest ranked team plays at home.

[Sir David Gray]

How do they decide where the play off finals are played. Knowing FIFA it will probably be nonsense such as highest ranked team plays at home.

If you're seeded you're at home for the semi final and the host for the finals will be determined by a draw.

[green day]

Despite our (until this year) dismal record of qualifications for the last 20 years, successive Scotland managers seem to be under huge pressure from day 1.

It might help matters if the SFA came out and said "we are appointing Manager X and his philosophy is to bring the best young players through and get them working together to qualify for, and compete in, a major tournament - this may take a few years"

Do we really want to limp into playoffs only to be disappointed yet again?

On the initial question - SC is and always has been a pragmatic manager. He cant change, so the SFA needs to, otherwise the cycle will continue.

[Spudster]

The folk moaning at Clarke that we likely won’t be seeded for the playoffs. What bracket would they expect Scotland to usually be in?
Currently seeded: Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, Poland, Croatia (and Scotland).
Currently unseeded: Czech rep, Norway, Romania, Ukraine, wales, Austria.

People kidding themselves on if they think an unseeded spot in the playoffs is a failure!

[hibbysam]

The folk moaning at Clarke that we likely won’t be seeded for the playoffs. What bracket would they expect Scotland to usually be in?
Currently seeded: Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, Poland, Croatia (and Scotland).
Currently unseeded: Czech rep, Norway, Romania, Ukraine, wales, Austria.

People kidding themselves on if they think an unseeded spot in the playoffs is a failure!

Were in a group where one side have run away with it, and we are a better side than the other 4 sides. It should be extremely realistic to be seeded in the play off.

[Spudster]

It is a bit less surprising if its happening on other social media. No doubt mostly Rangers fans unhappy at his "Bye bye Rangers" from a few years ago which was not long after their anti-Catholic chants aimed at him.
It was actually “bye bye rangers, bye bye Celtic” but rangers fans have a habit of trimming and freeze framing things to suit their warped agenda.

[Spudster]

Were in a group where one side have run away with it, and we are a better side than the other 4 sides. It should be extremely realistic to be seeded in the play off.
Austria are ranked way higher than Scotland. You could argue that in itself is proof the manager is getting more out of his squad than expected.
The Faroes lost 3 games by 4 goals this tournament: Denmark, Scotland and Israel. So in that regard we have matched the top seed (and 4th) from our group and bettered the 2nd seed.

[theonlywayisup]

What a bonkers thread to wake up to and read!

The 'experts' on here saying that SC has to go, yet the Sky Sports's 'experts' were saying to us "it's all about winning", "it's about building momentum", "it's about qualification for major tournaments, no matter how ugly it is". SC is doing that with Scotland that no other manager has done in well over twenty years.

[Billy Whizz]

Clarke is doing a fantastic job for Scotland, qualified for the Euros and in with a chance of going to the World Cup, that’s a pretty impressive record so far

[Hibbyradge]

It was one up front with McGinn and Christie in behind - like we play fairly often. Tonight wasn’t a night for that. Especially when Christie drifts wide. It’s hardly disingenuous - it never worked and we got very fortunate.

It’s highly unlikely we will be seeded unless we get a result against the Danes - a huge game. That’s all down to our goal difference.

It was Christie and Dykes up front with McGinn behind them.

It worked exactly as well as Denmark's formation worked over there.

[JimBHibees]

If you're seeded you're at home for the semi final and the host for the finals will be determined by a draw.

Thanks I knew about the semi wasn't sure what the final was.

[Percy Vere]

If he wins tonight and against Moldova he will get his shot at the play offs. Anything else and yes, he can go for me.

Really!

[SHODAN]

Steve Clarke is the best manager Scotland have had in decades. Careful what you wish for.

[JeMeSouviens]

Steve Clarke is the best manager Scotland have had in decades. Careful what you wish for.

Probably since Walter the Cardigan, before he jumped ship to the SS Tihunic. Although maybe I remember him as good because Berti was so bad.

Anyway, looking back at previous world cup qualifiers, we were still in with a play off shout for 2018 up to the last game away to Slovenia. I don't think Clarke is much of an upgrade on Strachan (press conference gob*****ry aside). I think we have a sprinkling of better standard players reaching maturity together, eg. Robertson, McGinn, Tierney, which gives us a wee bit better chance.

[Potty78]

Steve Clark has done a great job so far but he got away with one last night. Nisbet must not be looking good enough in training as to bring him on with under 10 to go when needing a goal was crazy. Few great balls put into the box second half with only Dykes making runs. Christie is not a striker and the changes should have been made with 30 mins to go. Denmark only won one nil in the Faroes as they made 10 changes��

[TheHibernator]

😂😂😂

[Sir David Gray]

Were in a group where one side have run away with it, and we are a better side than the other 4 sides. It should be extremely realistic to be seeded in the play off.

Scotland were in pot 3 for the draw and barring an unexpected collapse v Moldova will finish in 2nd place with a game left to spare.

Austria were in pot 2 for our group and we've managed to take 4 points off them. Being seeded would be great but I don't think it was "extremely realistic" for Scotland to be seeded before a ball was kicked in this qualifying campaign but it is still possible with two games to go.

We've taken full points so far against the two whipping boys of the group and remained unbeaten against our two main competitors for 2nd place. As far as results go it doesn't really get much better than that for this current Scotland team.

[TheHibernator]

We should be beating every team 11-0 with 8 scored before half time, completely agree.

[hibbysam]

Scotland were in pot 3 for the draw and barring an unexpected collapse v Moldova will finish in 2nd place with a game left to spare.

Austria were in pot 2 for our group and we've managed to take 4 points off them. Being seeded would be great but I don't think it was "extremely realistic" for Scotland to be seeded before a ball was kicked in this qualifying campaign but it is still possible with two games to go.

We've taken full points so far against the two whipping boys of the group and remained unbeaten against our two main competitors for 2nd place. As far as results go it doesn't really get much better than that for this current Scotland team.

Austria have been dreadful, so while looking at pots is a good starter, we should never have dropped the points we did at home to them.

[HibsGW]

If only Denmark sacked their manager when they only beat them 1-0. We’ve won 4 in a row for the first time in absolutely ages, with a couple of decent teams in there too.

[Gordy M]

Austria have been dreadful, so while looking at pots is a good starter, we should never have dropped the points we did at home to them.

Austria had a great Euros AFTER we played them at Hampden, yes since then they havent been very good, but there was a few on here saying we had no chance in our group after their display in the sunmer.

[hibbysam]

Austria had a great Euros AFTER we played them at Hampden, yes since then they havent been very good, but there was a few on here saying we had no chance in our group after their display in the sunmer.

They had a decent euros, they beat Macedonia like they should’ve and won the shootout game with Ukraine. Then lost to Italy. Looking at this campaign as a whole, I’d find it hard to argue that we shouldn’t have beat them at home, which would have almost certainly seen us as seeded.

[HibsGW]

They had a decent euros, they beat Macedonia like they should’ve and won the shootout game with Ukraine. Then lost to Italy. Looking at this campaign as a whole, I’d find it hard to argue that we shouldn’t have beat them at home, which would have almost certainly seen us as seeded.

Surely then though it has to be added that it isn’t expected that we beat them away from home.

[hibbysam]

Surely then though it has to be added that it isn’t expected that we beat them away from home.

That was a great result and performance and has been acknowledged - especially as the performance came out of nowhere. All is forgotten if we get something against the Danes and get seeded. I want to qualify, I don’t want to just take part and being unseeded will make it highly unlikely (although we will hope) of qualifying.

[Sir David Gray]

They had a decent euros, they beat Macedonia like they should’ve and won the shootout game with Ukraine. Then lost to Italy. Looking at this campaign as a whole, I’d find it hard to argue that we shouldn’t have beat them at home, which would have almost certainly seen us as seeded.

We surely more than made up for that by beating them in Austria?

They were ranked 23rd in the world when qualifying started, won their Nations League group which included Norway and Romania (both of whom are currently sitting 2nd in their groups) and got to the last 16 of the Euros after beating Ukraine who are of a similar standard as the Czech Republic, who beat us comfortably in the same tournament.

I think it's incredibly harsh to suggest that we went into this with an extremely realistic chance of not only qualifying for the play offs but actually being seeded.

[The Modfather]

That was a great result and performance and has been acknowledged - especially as the performance came out of nowhere. All is forgotten if we get something against the Danes and get seeded. I want to qualify, I don’t want to just take part and being unseeded will make it highly unlikely (although we will hope) of qualifying.

At the start of the campaign our realistic aim was to finish second. To do that we’d all have said we need to take 4 points off Israel and 4 from Austria and maximum points from Faroes & Moldova. We are set to achieve all of that. Getting seeded is important, but it’s a sign of the progress we’re making where our expectations were simply all about finishing second by hook or crook. Now Clarke and the team are being criticised for not scoring enough goals, or finishing clear in second but potentially falling short of being seeded.

[Allant1981]

Cant say his tactics or team selections excite me but if we qualify for the WC then cant say im fussed

[hibbysam]

At the start of the campaign our realistic aim was to finish second. To do that we’d all have said we need to take 4 points off Israel and 4 from Austria and maximum points from Faroes & Moldova. We are set to achieve all of that. Getting seeded is important, but it’s a sign of the progress we’re making where our expectations were simply all about finishing second by hook or crook. Now Clarke and the team are being criticised for not scoring enough goals, or finishing clear in second but potentially falling short of being seeded.

Of course it would be, but nobody would have envisioned the second seeded side falling to bits like Austria have. We also have a very good side which we often forget.

No one is doubting the progress in results, but it could very easily have been drastically different, even just this past week, which is why I won’t get carried away with it.

[Since452]

I think he's more than proved that he's an excellent manager. What he did at Kilmarnock for instance was remarkable. It might not be swashbuckling football but it is effective. I believe we overlooked him for the managers job around the time he went to Killie. Missed a trick there i think.

[WeeRussell]

Of course it would be, but nobody would have envisioned the second seeded side falling to bits like Austria have. We also have a very good side which we often forget.

No one is doubting the progress in results, but it could very easily have been drastically different, even just this past week, which is why I won’t get carried away with it.

I wouldn’t worry sam - you’re definitely not in danger of getting carried away 😂👍

[lucky]

There are no guarantees in football, especially being a Hibs and Scotland fan. Scotland are a competitive team, we’ve won 4 in a row and have a chance to reach the play offs. Last night wasn’t a good watch but it was all about the 3 points. Most teams now are very well organised and are difficult to breakdown. We all know the Faroes are not world beaters but they’ve steadily improved at home and are now very difficult to beat only, Israeli beat them by more than 2 goals in qualifying over there.

[The Modfather]

Of course it would be, but nobody would have envisioned the second seeded side falling to bits like Austria have. We also have a very good side which we often forget.

No one is doubting the progress in results, but it could very easily have been drastically different, even just this past week, which is why I won’t get carried away with it.

Why are you focussing on what could have been different rather than what actually happened? We have/are about to finish comfortably in second and make the playoffs. I find little to criticise about the current campaign.

On the back of qualifying for the Euros that’s a clear sign of progress being made. The first step is to consistently make the playoffs and trust to luck of the draw. A few more campaigns down the line we can then look to start qualifying again on a consistent basis.

[Tyler Durden]

He got lucky tonight. His starting 11 was a bit bizarre. Did not see what the shape was meant to be. Ryan Christie is not the player he was 2 years ago. Should have picked the strongest 11 to get the job done. He is too loyal to certain players who are not on form. Needs to get a shape and system that plays to players strengths.
Still it was 3 points but need to get the job done next game and the Denmark game should be treated as a must win to provide the springboard for the play offs.
Should stick with the manager but he needs to grow a pair and be less loyal to players who are not performing.

Which players are you referring to? Ryan Christie has been playing well for Bournemouth and did well from the bench against Israel.

[Spudster]

I think some of the looking back on previous campaigns are with rose tinted glasses, particularly 2008. We played awful defensive football under McLeish and Smith but two games against France where we were dominated in every stat except result skews memories. Then lost to Italy twice, Ukraine and Georgia yet somehow its looked back on as a benchmark of achievement :confused:

[gbhibby]

Which players are you referring to? Ryan Christie has been playing well for Bournemouth and did well from the bench against Israel.
Thought he did OK from bench against Israel. He is not a player who can play as one of the 2 upfront. Patterson should have played from the start as Fraser did not play well and is one player that seems to be one of Clarkes favourites. Christie I know has been getting good reviews at Bournemouth but is way off the player he was a couple of seasons ago.

[blackpoolhibs]

Of course it would be, but nobody would have envisioned the second seeded side falling to bits like Austria have. We also have a very good side which we often forget.

No one is doubting the progress in results, but it could very easily have been drastically different, even just this past week, which is why I won’t get carried away with it.

Did the 2nd seeds fall to bits, or did the 3rd and 4th seeds not play well and match them? If you think the 2nd seeds should always beat those underneath them, what enjoyment do you ever get from football?:confused:

[Keith_M]

Saw a comment in one of the newspapers today that said, "Clarke was so excited by last night's win that he almost broke into a smirk".


:greengrin

[SlickShoes]

Based on actual football results over the last 2 years, the longer Clarke is Scotland Manager and Ross is Hibs manager, the better.

The stuff you see in here could easily be a thread about Jack Ross with some of the crticisms.

[Skol1972]

Obviously don't know whether Patterson or McGregor were thought fit enough to start which may be why they were on the bench. Replacing Patterson with Fraser seemed to be a strange decision as I felt he built up a good understanding with Gilmour in the second half against. Also Patterson is more powerful and direct when coming up against organised defences. Fraser seems like more of a hit on the break type of player.

These are the decisions a manager has to make though and so far Clark's team has managed to amass enough points to put Scotland in a strong position for 2nd place. Big worry for me is why Scotland were so poor in the first half of both the latest games. The better teams (e,g Denmark 2-0 down after 15 mins) would have been out of sight before we started to play better in the second half.

[JimBHibees]

Which players are you referring to? Ryan Christie has been playing well for Bournemouth and did well from the bench against Israel.

Actually thought Christie was one of our better players yesterday made a few decent runs forward and looked one of our few threats.

[He's here!]

I follow the team, I attend the games… enjoying the late winners but the turgid performances are potentially costing us a seeded slot due to our goal difference.

We beat Moldova 1-0, faroes 1-0 both terrible performances, Israel first half was dreadful, pumped by Denmark and the draws against Austria and Israel were poor performances.

The results have picked up and we’re in a good place generally but if you enjoy the performances then you’re at it. Gordon stopped that from being a doing tonight.

Maybe no bad thing to be brought down to earth some extent by such a turgid performance. The reaction to last Saturday's win by many struck me as OTT and reminded me a bit of the faux euphoria when we 'qualified' for the Euros via the back door (we'd failed dismally in the qualification proper). Apart from the heart on the sleeves draw at Wembley our limitations were laid bare at the tournament and I was surprised by how quickly some were lulled by a narrow win over Israel into proclaiming us a good team. We seem workmanlike and, by and large, effective, but little more.

[hibbysam]

Did the 2nd seeds fall to bits, or did the 3rd and 4th seeds not play well and match them? If you think the 2nd seeds should always beat those underneath them, what enjoyment do you ever get from football?:confused:

There is a strong possibility that the only point outwith the minnows in our group that the second seeds will pick up is against us. They conceded 5 to the 4th seeds. They have massively underperformed. I’m not saying they should always beat sides below them, they should a few times though.

[Stevie Reid]

I think some of the looking back on previous campaigns are with rose tinted glasses, particularly 2008. We played awful defensive football under McLeish and Smith but two games against France where we were dominated in every stat except result skews memories. Then lost to Italy twice, Ukraine and Georgia yet somehow its looked back on as a benchmark of achievement :confused:

I think your memory is skewed tbh, that was an excellent campaign. We won 8 of 12 matches in a group that contained Italy and France - the then World Champions, and the team they beat in the final, respectively. France also won 8 games, but drew 2 and lost 2 (to us), hence them placing above us. Italy, group winners, won 9 games. For apparently playing awful, defensive football, we scored 21 goals - one less than the group winners (Italy), and four less than France, the top scorers. Ukraine were ranked comfortably above us when the draw was made, and we finished 7 points clear of them.

It's a pretty strange post, you gloss over home and away wins over France (the only games they lost) like they were nothing, and yet highlight losing home and away to Italy as if those are really bad results. The only genuinely bad result that you've listed there is the Georgia one, that killed us in the end. It was a great campaign in a ridiculously tough group - we went from being as low as 77th in the world in November 2004 to as high as 13th in October 2007, largely due to that campaign.

[Potty78]

I follow the team, I attend the games… enjoying the late winners but the turgid performances are potentially costing us a seeded slot due to our goal difference.

We beat Moldova 1-0, faroes 1-0 both terrible performances, Israel first half was dreadful, pumped by Denmark and the draws against Austria and Israel were poor performances.

The results have picked up and we’re in a good place generally but if you enjoy the performances then you’re at it. Gordon stopped that from being a doing tonight.
Last sentence is nonsense, Gordon had one brilliant save so he hardly saved us from a doing

[hibbysam]

Maybe no bad thing to be brought down to earth some extent by such a turgid performance. The reaction to last Saturday's win by many struck me as OTT and reminded me a bit of the faux euphoria when we 'qualified' for the Euros via the back door (we'd failed dismally in the qualification proper). Apart from the heart on the sleeves draw at Wembley our limitations were laid bare at the tournament and I was surprised by how quickly some were lulled by a narrow win over Israel into proclaiming us a good team. We seem workmanlike and, by and large, effective, but little more.

The reaction to Saturday was huge due to the magnitude of the result. I’ve no issue with the celebrations to be fair. It did mask a terrible performance though.

[Percy Vere]

The reaction to Saturday was huge due to the magnitude of the result. I’ve no issue with the celebrations to be fair. It did mask a terrible performance though.

The second half against Israel was excellent.
Terrible performance?
First half was bad for sure, but secind was very good.
Gilmour Mcginn Patterson Tierney and Robertson all first class.

[WeeRussell]

Maybe no bad thing to be brought down to earth some extent by such a turgid performance. The reaction to last Saturday's win by many struck me as OTT and reminded me a bit of the faux euphoria when we 'qualified' for the Euros via the back door (we'd failed dismally in the qualification proper). Apart from the heart on the sleeves draw at Wembley our limitations were laid bare at the tournament and I was surprised by how quickly some were lulled by a narrow win over Israel into proclaiming us a good team. We seem workmanlike and, by and large, effective, but little more.

I’m really shocked to hear these are your views on the Scottish National team 🙄

Imagine describing a country rejoicing in getting to a tournament for the first time in about 1/3 of the support’s lifetime as “faux euphoria”.

[hibbysam]

The second half against Israel was excellent.
Terrible performance?
First half was bad for sure, but secind was very good.
Gilmour Mcginn Patterson Tierney and Robertson all first class.

It was supposed to say first half to be fair - apologies. Bad is an understatement, and the penalty summed it up for me.

[Hibs90]

It's a results business, performances matter for nothing especially in internationals. We've got the points from the last two games, and I expect us to get the points in Moldova also even if the performance is a bit *****.

[J-C]

I’m really shocked to hear these are your views on the Scottish National team 🙄

Imagine describing a country rejoicing in getting to a tournament for the first time in about 1/3 of the support’s lifetime as “faux euphoria”.

I've not been jumping with joy at any of our performances, great to qualify for the Euros but turgid is a good way to describe most performances under Clarke. We have a really decent bunch of players at our disposal but his insistence in shoehorning certain players in is detrimental. Not talking about Tierney and Robertson as I think they work well together.

[Crunchie]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon
Changing managers all the time is what's hopeless, he needs time to build his own squad and by time I mean at least 5 years, he's shown more than enough to warrant it.

[WeeRussell]

I've not been jumping with joy at any of our performances, great to qualify for the Euros but turgid is a good way to describe most performances under Clarke. We have a really decent bunch of players at our disposal but his insistence in shoehorning certain players in is detrimental. Not talking about Tierney and Robertson as I think they work well together.

Who are you talking about being shoehorned if not those two, out of interest? Maybe Ryan Fraser last night which I would agree wasn’t the best move.

[degenerated]

Another manager who's lucky when we win, and pish when we lose.:rolleyes:How's his record in the big games though :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

How's his record in the big games though :greengrin

What do you class as a big game? :greengrin

[degenerated]

What do you class as a big game? :greengrinDepends on the result, really :greengrin

[J-C]

Who are you talking about being shoehorned if not those two, out of interest? Maybe Ryan Fraser last night which I would agree wasn’t the best move.

Patterson had done well at RWB but he chose Fraser who had a poor game apart from the last 10 mins when we went for it, McTominay in the back 3 again and then squeezed into the midfield 3 which didn't work at all, it's like he plays for Man U so we must play him, he even too a bloody freekick which was blasted over the bar.

[Gordy M]

Patterson had done well at RWB but he chose Fraser who had a poor game apart from the last 10 mins when we went for it, McTominay in the back 3 again and then squeezed into the midfield 3 which didn't work at all, it's like he plays for Man U so we must play him, he even too a bloody freekick which was blasted over the bar.
Nathan Paterson had a terrible game against Israel. He constantly gave the ball away. I wasnt surprised at all he had been dropped for the Faroes.

[He's here!]

I’m really shocked to hear these are your views on the Scottish National team 🙄

Imagine describing a country rejoicing in getting to a tournament for the first time in about 1/3 of the support’s lifetime as “faux euphoria”.

What I meant was that for all the (understandable) relief that we were actually going to be playing at a major tournament for the first time in so long, I think most fans and pundits would, if they were being honest, accept we hadn't really qualified in a way that made you think yep, we're back! We finished well off the pace in the qualifying groups as usual and only had to win one relatively difficult game to qualify via the Nations League (which we hardly lit up either). I'd like to see us finally get to a tournament via the qualifying groups again. Reaching the play-offs will at least be a step in the right direction.

[JimBHibees]

Nathan Paterson had a terrible game against Israel. He constantly gave the ball away. I wasnt surprised at all he had been dropped for the Faroes.

Like most players he played poorly in the first half however was superb n the second half.

[He's here!]

I think your memory is skewed tbh, that was an excellent campaign. We won 8 of 12 matches in a group that contained Italy and France - the then World Champions, and the team they beat in the final, respectively. France also won 8 games, but drew 2 and lost 2 (to us), hence them placing above us. Italy, group winners, won 9 games. For apparently playing awful, defensive football, we scored 21 goals - one less than the group winners (Italy), and four less than France, the top scorers. Ukraine were ranked comfortably above us when the draw was made, and we finished 7 points clear of them.

It's a pretty strange post, you gloss over home and away wins over France (the only games they lost) like they were nothing, and yet highlight losing home and away to Italy as if those are really bad results. The only genuinely bad result that you've listed there is the Georgia one, that killed us in the end. It was a great campaign in a ridiculously tough group - we went from being as low as 77th in the world in November 2004 to as high as 13th in October 2007, largely due to that campaign.

Agree and disagree with your post. Yes, Smith and McLeish deserve a lot of credit for the turnaround in Scotland's rankings and yes, that campaign was by and large very good indeed. However, we really did blow it big style with that Georgia result and I would also say that beating France twice (while still great on paper) was not quite the achievement we like to think. I was at both games and it was clear that France were a fading force. The game in Paris was especially turgid (lit up by McFadden's goal) with the French especially poor. Their decline was underlined by their dreadful performance at the tournament itself where I think they failed to pick up a point. Italy, on the other hand, were a class apart and beat us easily home and away, so losing to them was not, as you point out, something to be ashamed of.

[Northernhibee]

S Clarke….

Is going to show you how…

[Gordy M]

Like most players he played poorly in the first half however was superb n the second half.

Im afraid i totally disagree, even in the 2nd he was our worst player. I think he is a talent but that was definitely not one of his better games, and i could see why he was dropped.

[mcohibs]

Im afraid i totally disagree, even in the 2nd he was our worst player. I think he is a talent but that was definitely not one of his better games, and i could see why he was dropped.

Nathan Patterson was very good in the second half of the Israel game.

[mcohibs]

S Clarke….

Is going to show you how…

Ain't no party like an S Clarke party

[JimBHibees]

Agree and disagree with your post. Yes, Smith and McLeish deserve a lot of credit for the turnaround in Scotland's rankings and yes, that campaign was by and large very good indeed. However, we really did blow it big style with that Georgia result and I would also say that beating France twice (while still great on paper) was not quite the achievement we like to think. I was at both games and it was clear that France were a fading force. The game in Paris was especially turgid (lit up by McFadden's goal) with the French especially poor. Their decline was underlined by their dreadful performance at the tournament itself where I think they failed to pick up a point. Italy, on the other hand, were a class apart and beat us easily home and away, so losing to them was not, as you point out, something to be ashamed of.

No way Italy beat us easily at home with a last minute header from a very dodgy free kick decision out wide. Sounds like you are trying to talk down Scotland at every turn. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Im afraid i totally disagree, even in the 2nd he was our worst player. I think he is a talent but that was definitely not one of his better games, and i could see why he was dropped.

He was excellent in the second half don't know how anyone can say otherwise.

[He's here!]

No way Italy beat us easily at home with a last minute header from a very dodgy free kick decision out wide. Sounds like you are trying to talk down Scotland at every turn. :greengrin

Yeh, fair enough I didn't remember the winner coming quite as late as that. Overall though I remember us being up against it for most of the game. I'm not talking Scotland down, just pointing out that Italy were a really strong side and that France were on a pretty rapid decline.

[The dalmeny]

Based on actual football results over the last 2 years, the longer Clarke is Scotland Manager and Ross is Hibs manager, the better.

The stuff you see in here could easily be a thread about Jack Ross with some of the crticisms.

Steve Clark's Scotland record since he got his first win: P24 W14 D5 L5 GF34 GA22


• Two of those wins were on pens
• Won Euro2020 Play-Offs
• One goal winning margin nine times
• Won 1-0 on six occasions
• Kept a clean sheet ten times
• Won by more than one goal 3 times

[Hibbyradge]

Steve Clark's Scotland record since he got his first win: P24 W14 D5 L5 GF34 GA22


• Two of those wins were on pens
• Won Euro2020 Play-Offs
• One goal winning margin nine times
• Won 1-0 on six occasions
• Kept a clean sheet ten times
• Won by more than one goal 3 times

Those are excellent stats.

[hibbysam]

Steve Clark's Scotland record since he got his first win: P24 W14 D5 L5 GF34 GA22


• Two of those wins were on pens
• Won Euro2020 Play-Offs
• One goal winning margin nine times
• Won 1-0 on six occasions
• Kept a clean sheet ten times
• Won by more than one goal 3 times

I could be wrong but those stats are off. He won his first game against Cyprus so every game included would be since he won a game.

He’s had 30 games inc 2 friendlies. 14 wins of which 2 were draws but won on penalties from the 28 competitive games, 5 draws and 9 defeats.

I think it’s 34 for and 33 against.
Conceded 2 or more on 9 occasions, 3 or more on 4 occasions.

I’m not quite in the Clarke out camp, obviously the highlights give him time, but stand by my point that it has been fairly fortunate, those play offs could’ve gone either way as all penalty shootouts can (he tried to make an arse of it in Serbia with his subs).

As your stats show he comes out on top in very tight games more often than not which might be an art, but against decent sides it’s also shown to get pumped more often than not.

He comes out just on the right side of a fine line for me.

[Sir David Gray]

Reckon the play offs might look like this - with my predictions for the remaining games;

Seeded

Serbia - 17
Spain - 17
Switzerland - 17
Poland - 17
Russia - 16
Turkey - 15

Unseeded

Czech Republic - 14
Scotland - 14
Romania - 13
Ukraine - 10
Wales - Nations League
Austria - Nations League

In short I reckon we'll be unseeded unless we get something v Denmark - even then a draw might not be enough.

[The dalmeny]

I’m not quite in the Clarke out camp, obviously the highlights give him time, but stand by my point that it has been fairly fortunate, those play offs could’ve gone either way as all penalty shootouts can (he tried to make an arse of it in Serbia with his subs).

me.

I’ll put my hands up and say I didn’t prep the stats I posted. Your fairly fortunate comment grates a little on the ‘if your auntie had a cock’ basis

[Since452]

Based on actual football results over the last 2 years, the longer Clarke is Scotland Manager and Ross is Hibs manager, the better.

The stuff you see in here could easily be a thread about Jack Ross with some of the crticisms.

Aye but has Steve Clarke won a big game yet? Like Rangers.. I mean England or Brazil? All very well turning us into a winning machine and taking us to our first major finals in 20 odd years. It's all about the big games :greengrin

[Speedy]

Reckon the play offs might look like this - with my predictions for the remaining games;

Seeded

Serbia - 17
Spain - 17
Switzerland - 17
Poland - 17
Russia - 16
Turkey - 15

Unseeded

Czech Republic - 14
Scotland - 14
Romania - 13
Ukraine - 10
Wales - Nations League
Austria - Nations League

In short I reckon we'll be unseeded unless we get something v Denmark - even then a draw might not be enough.

I can’t see a point not being enough. I agree we'll most likely need that point though.

[Sir David Gray]

I can’t see a point not being enough. I agree we'll most likely need that point though.

If I'm right and the final seed to make it is Turkey with 15 points then a draw against Denmark (along with a win against Moldova obviously) also gives us 15 points.

We currently have a goal difference of +5, if we draw with Denmark then we'll stay on +5. Turkey are currently on +4 and for them to get to 15 points that means they must beat Montenegro and therefore means they will automatically be on at least +5. If that's the case then I think they would beat us to the final play off spot on goals scored.

[Potty78]

Turkey winning in Montenegro ain't a given, they dree 2 2 last time they met, hopefully be seeded but it looks tough

[Craig_HFC]

If I'm right and the final seed to make it is Turkey with 15 points then a draw against Denmark (along with a win against Moldova obviously) also gives us 15 points.

We currently have a goal difference of +5, if we draw with Denmark then we'll stay on +5. Turkey are currently on +4 and for them to get to 15 points that means they must beat Montenegro and therefore means they will automatically be on at least +5. If that's the case then I think they would beat us to the final play off spot on goals scored.

If we beat Moldova our goal difference will be more than +5 going into the Denmark game though.

[CropleyWasGod]

If we beat Moldova our goal difference will be more than +5 going into the Denmark game though.

If Moldova stay bottom, their results are excluded.

[Craig_HFC]

If Moldova stay bottom, their results are excluded.

Right enough, carry on everyone.

[Potty78]

Reckon the play offs might look like this - with my predictions for the remaining games;

Seeded

Serbia - 17
Spain - 17
Switzerland - 17
Poland - 17
Russia - 16
Turkey - 15

Unseeded

Czech Republic - 14
Scotland - 14
Romania - 13
Ukraine - 10
Wales - Nations League
Austria - Nations League

In short I reckon we'll be unseeded unless we get something v Denmark - even then a draw might not be enough.
Norway and Turkey very close but either way goal difference is gonna be the difference.

[Speedy]

If I'm right and the final seed to make it is Turkey with 15 points then a draw against Denmark (along with a win against Moldova obviously) also gives us 15 points.

We currently have a goal difference of +5, if we draw with Denmark then we'll stay on +5. Turkey are currently on +4 and for them to get to 15 points that means they must beat Montenegro and therefore means they will automatically be on at least +5. If that's the case then I think they would beat us to the final play off spot on goals scored.

Turkey are +1 excluding their results against Gibraltar.

[Sir David Gray]

Turkey are +1 excluding their results against Gibraltar.

Beat me to it, I was just coming on to correct myself.

Quite annoyed by that as I'd double checked it all before I posted it! 🤣🤣

[Sir David Gray]

If I'm right and the final seed to make it is Turkey with 15 points then a draw against Denmark (along with a win against Moldova obviously) also gives us 15 points.

We currently have a goal difference of +5, if we draw with Denmark then we'll stay on +5. Turkey are currently on +4 and for them to get to 15 points that means they must beat Montenegro and therefore means they will automatically be on at least +5. If that's the case then I think they would beat us to the final play off spot on goals scored.

Sooooo....

If Scotland and Turkey finish on 15 points we are currently on +5 and will stay on +5 if beat Moldova and draw with Denmark.

Turkey are currently on +1 and will therefore need to beat Montenegro by 4 goals to overtake us on goals scored.

Therefore I've revised my prediction and now say that a point v Denmark will see us seeded.

A loss to Denmark will see us unseeded.

[Speedy]

Sooooo....

If Scotland and Turkey finish on 15 points we are currently on +5 and will stay on +5 if beat Moldova and draw with Denmark.

Turkey are currently on +1 and will therefore need to beat Montenegro by 4 goals to overtake us on goals scored.

Therefore I've revised my prediction and now say that a point v Denmark will see us seeded.

A loss to Denmark will see us unseeded.

Agreed.

Lose to Denmark and we need a couple of fairly obscure results to go in our favour to have any chance of being seeded.

[superfurryhibby]

Scotland currently have 17 points?

[Sir David Gray]

Scotland currently have 17 points?

All points won against the bottom team in the groups of 6 are scrubbed for the purposes of calculating the play off places.

[hibbysam]

I’ll put my hands up and say I didn’t prep the stats I posted. Your fairly fortunate comment grates a little on the ‘if your auntie had a cock’ basis

Nothing like that, penalty shootouts can go either way, he’s not responsible for us winning them, and like I said he’s fortunate his subs in Serbia never bit us on the arse like it easily could’ve.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nothing like that, penalty shootouts can go either way, he’s not responsible for us winning them, and like I said he’s fortunate his subs in Serbia never bit us on the arse like it easily could’ve.

IIRC, every penalty we had in the Serbia game was a cracker. That screamed "preparation" at me, for which SC is certainly responsible.

[The dalmeny]

Nothing like that, penalty shootouts can go either way, he’s not responsible for us winning them, and like I said he’s fortunate his subs in Serbia never bit us on the arse like it easily could’ve.

other than the fact he probably selected the penalty takers

[The dalmeny]

IIRC, every penalty we had in the Serbia game was a cracker. That screamed "preparation" at me, for which SC is certainly responsible.

have we missed a pen in a shootout? Compare to England’s at the euros

[He's here!]

Steve Clark's Scotland record since he got his first win: P24 W14 D5 L5 GF34 GA22


• Two of those wins were on pens
• Won Euro2020 Play-Offs
• One goal winning margin nine times
• Won 1-0 on six occasions
• Kept a clean sheet ten times
• Won by more than one goal 3 times

Where are you getting those stats? Scotland have lost 9 games under Clarke. The goals against column isn't right either.

[superfurryhibby]

All points won against the bottom team in the groups of 6 are scrubbed for the purposes of calculating the play off places.

Right enough, cheers SDG

[Smartie]

Nothing like that, penalty shootouts can go either way, he’s not responsible for us winning them, and like I said he’s fortunate his subs in Serbia never bit us on the arse like it easily could’ve.

Getting within penalty kicks of qualification is an improvement on anything else we’ve done for 20 years though. Having got there, we then took good penalties under pressure.

I’m not 100% convinced by Clarke but I’ve seen enough underachievement from Hibs and Scotland over the years to not turn my nose up at someone who has a habit of fashioning victories. With the young players in the squad, it feels more like the start of something with good times ahead rather than having a manager who has squeezed everything possible out of a tired and ageing group of players.

[Andy74]

Getting within penalty kicks of qualification is an improvement on anything else we’ve done for 20 years though. Having got there, we then took good penalties under pressure.

I’m not 100% convinced by Clarke but I’ve seen enough underachievement from Hibs and Scotland over the years to not turn my nose up at someone who has a habit of fashioning victories. With the young players in the squad, it feels more like the start of something with good times ahead rather than having a manager who has squeezed everything possible out of a tired and ageing group of players.

There hasn’t been the back door of the Nations League for the last 20 years though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Where are you getting those stats? Scotland have lost 9 games under Clarke. The goals against column isn't right either.

"since he got his first win"

[hibbysam]

"since he got his first win"

He won his first game 😂

[CropleyWasGod]

He won his first game 😂

"since he got his first win after the first win" :cb

[gbhibby]

So the next two games are must win to be one of the seeded teams. Rather it was like that, will Denmark play a weakened side against Scotland?
We need to be beating the likes of Denmark to go into the play offs on a high.

[Sir David Gray]

So the next two games are must win to be one of the seeded teams. Rather it was like that, will Denmark play a weakened side against Scotland?
We need to be beating the likes of Denmark to go into the play offs on a high.

Any win against Denmark would likely see us seeded, ironically even if we failed to beat Moldova.

A win against Moldova and a draw v Denmark would probably send us into the seeded places as well.

A win against Moldova and a loss against Denmark and it's going to be hard to be seeded.

[Speedy]

So the next two games are must win to be one of the seeded teams. Rather it was like that, will Denmark play a weakened side against Scotland?
We need to be beating the likes of Denmark to go into the play offs on a high.

Doubt it. They'll likely be going for 100% with no goals conceded.

[hibbysam]

Doubt it. They'll likely be going for 100% with no goals conceded.

Not sure it’ll really bother them that much - a ‘nice to have’ but their club sides will be in their ear knowing they have a busy 6/7 weeks after it.

*unless it can impact their seeding for the World Cup of course.

[Sir David Gray]

Not sure it’ll really bother them that much - a ‘nice to have’ but their club sides will be in their ear knowing they have a busy 6/7 weeks after it.

*unless it can impact their seeding for the World Cup of course.

I think they'll be second seeds for the World Cup no matter what.

[loanheadhibby]

Any win against Denmark would likely see us seeded, ironically even if we failed to beat Moldova.

A win against Moldova and a draw v Denmark would probably send us into the seeded places as well.

A win against Moldova and a loss against Denmark and it's going to be hard to be seeded.
Does a win v Moldova not guarantee us being seeded irrespective of how we fare v Denmark?

[jonny]

Does a win v Moldova not guarantee us being seeded irrespective of how we fare v Denmark?

Given the current points of the other 2nd placed teams that was my understanding

[Speedy]

Does a win v Moldova not guarantee us being seeded irrespective of how we fare v Denmark?

No. Results against 6th place doesn't count in the playoff seeding calculations.

[Sir David Gray]

Does a win v Moldova not guarantee us being seeded irrespective of how we fare v Denmark?

Assuming Moldova stay bottom results against them are scrubbed for the purposes of calculating the seedings for the play offs.

[theonlywayisup]

What a fantastic job Stevie Clarke has done in turning around Scotland from being a team humiliated by the team that were ranked 117 in the World two and a half years ago to now beating the team ranked 10th in the World and beaten semi-finalists at the recent Euro Championships.

Kazakhstan 3-0 Scotland: Alex McLeish's side humiliated in Euro 2020 opener - BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47564455)

Say what you want about Stevie Clarke, but he knows how to build teams, which is exactly what he's doing with Scotland. The recipe is always the same, make his teams hard to beat, then from a strong defensive unit, make us a team that can compete with the best in the World. He did it with Kilmarnock, in the Scottish League environment, and he's doing it at Scotland at International level.

This is the first time in many a year that I watch Scotland and think "we can do this". I just hope now that we continue to grow and be competitive in the Playoffs.

[B.H.F.C]

Got to be honest, I didn’t see it coming.

I thought he got things wrong at the Euros and it was a poor start to this campaign.

But to only drop seven points in an entire campaign is unbelievable for us. Would qualify with that number of points more often than not I’d imagine.

[SHODAN]

i'm love steven's clark

[ABZHFC]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

I expected this post to be from like September 2019 when I read it, not last month :greengrin

[CyberSauzee]

I expected this post to be from like September 2019 when I read it, not last month :greengrin

Was just thinking the exact same! A double take looking at the date

[Since452]

Ross ou.. I mean Clarke.. Steve Kean out!

[Pretty Boy]

I think this thread reflects the short termism of a lot of football fans, arguably a majority.

6 wins a row and a guy who was a dead man walking is verging on national treasure. Contrast that to JR who with 4 defeats in a row has a fairly sizable minority piling pressure on him.

I would argue it shows why you need strong leadership, people who believe in a plan and make decisions based on a bigger picture. It means we can keep being fans and swing wildly based on the emotive nature of football.

[Since452]

I think this thread reflects the short termism of a lot of football fans, arguably a majority.

6 wins a row and a guy who was a dead man walking is verging on national treasure. Contrast that to JR who with 4 defeats in a row has a fairly sizable minority piling pressure on him.

I would argue it shows why you need strong leadership, people who believe in a plan and make decisions based on a bigger picture. It means we can keep being fans and swing wildly based on the emotive nature of football.

Well put

[Smartie]

I think this thread reflects the short termism of a lot of football fans, arguably a majority.

6 wins a row and a guy who was a dead man walking is verging on national treasure. Contrast that to JR who with 4 defeats in a row has a fairly sizable minority piling pressure on him.

I would argue it shows why you need strong leadership, people who believe in a plan and make decisions based on a bigger picture. It means we can keep being fans and swing wildly based on the emotive nature of football.

I think it depends how much credit these guys put in the bank when times are good.

Going forward, most (not all) fans will likely remember how it felt to quality for the first tournament in yonks, how it felt to win 6 on the bounce, how it felt to beat a team like Denmark and finally get a bit of feel good going again. He's actually quite a pragmatic manager but I don't think Scotland fans mind that so much when international football is very very much a results business.

Did Jack Ross put enough in the bank when times were good? No, I don't think he did. A decent number of narrow wins over weak SPFL teams wasn't enough when it came to blowing big opportunities in the cups and now that our form and results have dropped off a cliff, the knives are out.

There has always just been a feeling of unease between the fans at Hibs and Jack Ross. I don't know what he needs to do to win folk over. Win a few big games would help, starting on Sunday would be lovely. Another decent league finish would help his cause. Getting the injured players back and starting to show more of the form we showed in flashes early this season.

As long as we're playing poorly and losing, he's on a hiding to nothing though.

There's always a lunatic fringe amongst football fans who are very vocal, positive and negative. Whilst I think we all sway to an extent, for most people it only happens on a minor scale.

[gbhibby]

Steve Clarke has got us playing some fantastic football as well. I for one don't mind if we win games by the odd goal even against the minnows. The players seem to know exactly what their role is, he also seems to be able to players in a different position from what they play at their clubs SJM and McTominey and he solved the problem of how to play Robertson and Tierney in the same team.
We are in a good place looking forward to the play offs and the competition for places is the most competitive it's been for years.

[jacomo]

I think this thread reflects the short termism of a lot of football fans, arguably a majority.

6 wins a row and a guy who was a dead man walking is verging on national treasure. Contrast that to JR who with 4 defeats in a row has a fairly sizable minority piling pressure on him.

I would argue it shows why you need strong leadership, people who believe in a plan and make decisions based on a bigger picture. It means we can keep being fans and swing wildly based on the emotive nature of football.


:agree:

Good post.

[Smartie]

Steve Clarke has got us playing some fantastic football as well. I for one don't mind if we win games by the odd goal even against the minnows. The players seem to know exactly what their role is, he also seems to be able to players in a different position from what they play at their clubs SJM and McTominey and he solved the problem of how to play Robertson and Tierney in the same team.
We are in a good place looking forward to the play offs and the competition for places is the most competitive it's been for years.

I think he's a got a bit of a headache going forward regarding McTominay though.

Absolutely no doubt about it that he's a good player but I think the Scotland team looks more of a "greater than the sum of its parts" job when he's not playing. When he's played in his best position (in the midfield) Scotland have invariably struggled.

It would be a brave Scotland manager who would leave out through choice a player who gets in the Manchester United first team but that might be what Clarke has to do.

[I'm Spartacus]

No matter what the score is tonight he has to go, absolutely hopeless, we need a manager who can inspire us and sadly that is not paw broon

First time in nearly 100 years we've won 6 on the bounce. The OP was only here 5 weeks ago so it's not as if things have changed since then. I am totally excited for the national team and now wanting tickets for Hampden.

The OP should be here apologising to SC!

[AugustaHibs]

I think it depends how much credit these guys put in the bank when times are good.

Going forward, most (not all) fans will likely remember how it felt to quality for the first tournament in yonks, how it felt to win 6 on the bounce, how it felt to beat a team like Denmark and finally get a bit of feel good going again. He's actually quite a pragmatic manager but I don't think Scotland fans mind that so much when international football is very very much a results business.

Did Jack Ross put enough in the bank when times were good? No, I don't think he did. A decent number of narrow wins over weak SPFL teams wasn't enough when it came to blowing big opportunities in the cups and now that our form and results have dropped off a cliff, the knives are out.

There has always just been a feeling of unease between the fans at Hibs and Jack Ross. I don't know what he needs to do to win folk over. Win a few big games would help, starting on Sunday would be lovely. Another decent league finish would help his cause. Getting the injured players back and starting to show more of the form we showed in flashes early this season.

As long as we're playing poorly and losing, he's on a hiding to nothing though.

There's always a lunatic fringe amongst football fans who are very vocal, positive and negative. Whilst I think we all sway to an extent, for most people it only happens on a minor scale.

Superb post.

Even the ‘good times’ have been pretty bland under JR.