Vaccine Certificate

[Peevemor]

So when they come into the sponsors area for pictures etc? Players fully mingle with the general public now. They should be forced (like us) to be double jabbed.

I agree. And FWIW I think the club should only send fully vaccinated players into the lounges (maybe already the case).

[007]

What if you aren’t a ST holder? If they check ID then checks are going to take a very long time at turnstiles.

You'll still have a client ref and your name will be in the database.

Probably, turn up earlier then. Anyone turning up 5 minutes before kickoff can't complain at missing the start.

[TheSouthMoroccan]

https://www.nhsinform.scot/nhs-scotland-covid-status

This one here :aok:

Thanks, much appreciated, all now sorted I think. As suggested I had somehow downloaded the wrong app. Tried looking for info on line, funny but a bit mental as well that I'd get help and advise on a football forum. God help the non Hibees :greengrin

[wookie70]

But you've just said yourself that England abandoned that approach? For the right reasons. Negative LFTs are too easy to forge and having two checks to contend with is a logistical nightmare.

Citizens do have the right to choose not to be vaccinated. However, if that's what they choose then they will have to live with the consequence that they won't gain access to stadiums. No one's forcing people to go the football, it's a choice - one that now comes with an extra necessary step to keep the general public (majority of those who are vaxxed) safe.

They abandoned the Passports as far as I am aware. Getting a paper vaccine certificate off a mate is very difficult right enough. You do have the right to choose to be vaccinated but that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that freedom is restricted if you make a certain choice and that doesn't need to happen and Wales is an example of an inclusive approach. Even England managed a more inclusive approach

[hibbysam]

You'll still have a client ref and your name will be in the database.

Probably, turn up earlier then. Anyone turning up 5 minutes before kickoff can't complaint at missing the start.

As per the pre season games the tickets only showed your CRN - not your name. How then does a steward know who you are? They don’t.

[BoomtownHibees]

As per the pre season games the tickets only showed your CRN - not your name. How then does a steward know who you are? They don’t.

They’ll scan the chip in your arm if you’re vaccinated

[wookie70]

You'll still have a client ref and your name will be in the database.

Probably, turn up earlier then. Anyone turning up 5 minutes before kickoff can't complaint at missing the start.

I suspect it will be like most checks at grounds and when the queues grow as KO approaches the Stewards will concentrate on keeping fans in line and getting the queues orderly. I doubt many arriving 5 minutes before KO will have to worry about checks. It is all about the context in terms of arriving 5 minutes before KO. IF I arrive and I am double jagged and there is a short queue then I want to get into the ground. If the system isn't slick then you better believe fans will complain and in my view they have every right to do so. Hibs clearly think there will be issues by advising fans have paper certificates.

[007]

As per the pre season games the tickets only showed your CRN - not your name. How then does a steward know who you are? They don’t.

What are you getting at? The system should be scrapped because it isn't 100% foolproof?

[hibbyfraelibby]

So when they come into the sponsors area for pictures etc? Players fully mingle with the general public now. They should be forced (like us) to be double jabbed.

They aren't at the moment...

[hibbysam]

What are you getting at? The system should be scrapped because it isn't 100% foolproof?

That’s my viewpoint, however that’s irrelevant here.

My point is the original poster made the suggestion that tests can’t be used as they are easily forged/cheated/made up, yet the exact same will be said for vaccine passports as there is no chance the club is going to employ additional stewards at a large cost, or have fans waiting hours to get in so that they can check everyone and have ID checked to ensure you are who you say you are.

[hibbyfraelibby]

They abandoned the Passports as far as I am aware. Getting a paper vaccine certificate off a mate is very difficult right enough. You do have the right to choose to be vaccinated but that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that freedom is restricted if you make a certain choice and that doesn't need to happen and Wales is an example of an inclusive approach. Even England managed a more inclusive approach

Dont believe the Misreporting Scotland and their agenda.

England has not abandoded their Passport scheme. Like ours it can still be used abroad in Scotland and in Wales. They have merely decided not to use it domestically at thus time but reserve the right to use it dependent upon circumstances.

That the parking your car in a garage until you want to use it approach

[Sir David Gray]

So when they come into the sponsors area for pictures etc? Players fully mingle with the general public now. They should be forced (like us) to be double jabbed.

Not sure about anything else but in terms of hospitality there's currently no player appearances, even for when the match sponsors are presented with their shirt/ball at full time.

[Peevemor]

They aren't at the moment...


Not sure about anything else but in terms of hospitality there's currently no player appearances, even for when the match sponsors are presented with their shirt/ball at full time.

Makes sense.

[Sir David Gray]

Makes sense.

It does, I do wish they would update the hospitality itinerary on the website in the meantime though.

[007]

That’s my viewpoint, however that’s irrelevant here.

My point is the original poster made the suggestion that tests can’t be used as they are easily forged/cheated/made up, yet the exact same will be said for vaccine passports as there is no chance the club is going to employ additional stewards at a large cost, or have fans waiting hours to get in so that they can check everyone and have ID checked to ensure you are who you say you are.

No system for anything is 100% foolproof. The criminal justice system isn't 100% foolproof but that doesn't mean we should scrap laws/courts.

It is a lot easier to fake a lateral flow test than a vaccine passport. And even the fact vaccine passports can be faked it is still not a reason to scrap the whole thing. Passports for travelling abroad can be forged but that's not a reason to do away with the need for them.

I doubt the government care much, if at all, whether or not there are bigger than normal queues to get in. Maybe if people just either get vaccinated or the unvaccinated stayed away rather than trying to get in with fake vaccine passports then the system will have a better chance of running smoothly.

[greenginger]

D
Then you've broken the rules. How does your mate get in without his season ticket?

Could be on holiday, could be isolating with covid ! :greengrin

I’ve got my own season ticket, double jabbed and going for the booster next week.

[hibbyfraelibby]

D

Could be on holiday, could be isolating with covid ! :greengrin

I’ve got my own season ticket, double jabbed and going for the booster next week.
Rhat should be interesting. Is you double jab now going to have to bd a triple jab in future?

Just asking so we can all have a further moan...

[hibbysam]

No system for anything is 100% foolproof. The criminal justice system isn't 100% foolproof but that doesn't mean we should scrap laws/courts.

It is a lot easier to fake a lateral flow test than a vaccine passport. And even the fact vaccine passports can be faked it is still not a reason to scrap the whole thing. Passports for travelling abroad can be forged but that's not a reason to do away with the need for them.

I doubt the government care much, if at all, whether or not there are bigger than normal queues to get in. Maybe if people just either get vaccinated or the unvaccinated stayed away rather than trying to get in with fake vaccine passports then the system will have a better chance of running smoothly.

Is it? If no ID is being asked for then you can literally just get your pals certificate and rock up. You don’t even need to go through the hassle of getting a LFD to scan into the NHS system.

It’s simple, if they want it to be effective in stopping infections spreading then tests should be built into the process as well if not vaccinated.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can't believe that I am reading that some people are really trying to work out how to circumvent the covid status checks to get into a football match!! 🙄

Not only that but people still think that they need to print the covid status to show it!! 🙄

The vast majority of folk will have their covid status digitally on their phone.

[hibbysam]

I can't believe that I am reading that some people are really trying to work out how to circumvent the covid status checks to get into a football match!! 🙄

Not only that but people still think that they need to print the covid status to show it!! 🙄

The vast majority of folk will have their covid status digitally on their phone.

Nobody is trying to work out how to. Just stating it’s as easy to circumvent that than it would be to circumvent Covid tests.

[Itsnoteasy]

I can't believe that I am reading that some people are really trying to work out how to circumvent the covid status checks to get into a football match!! 🙄

Not only that but people still think that they need to print the covid status to show it!! 🙄

The vast majority of folk will have their covid status digitally on their phone.

And what about the elderly who do not have a smart phone, pc or printer?

[Moulin Yarns]

And what about the elderly who do not have a smart phone, pc or printer?

Oi!!! I have all 3. 😉

And they'll struggle to go to nightclubs if they don't have a printer 🤣🤣

[greenlex]

And what about the elderly who do not have a smart phone, pc or printer?

We will do what we do now. Either get our kids to print it out or whatever we do now when we need something printed.
I don’t know anyone you are suggesting. If they do exist they will be able to count them without taking your socks off.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nobody is trying to work out how to. Just stating it’s as easy to circumvent that than it would be to circumvent Covid tests.

OK. So talking about falsifying either a Lateral Flow Test or using someone else's covid status is not coming up with ideas of how to circumvent a public health check!!

It's not something that would cross my mind, but it obviously has for others. That makes me think that they have considered doing it.

[hibbysam]

OK. So talking about falsifying either a Lateral Flow Test or using someone else's covid status is not coming up with ideas of how to circumvent a public health check!!

It's not something that would cross my mind, but it obviously has for others. That makes me think that they have considered doing it.

That’s not what was said at all. The point was raised that LFD’s should also be accepted - counter argument was that it is too easy to falsify them - counter counter argument was that it is just as easy to do so with Passports. Nobody is suggesting (that I’ve seen on here) that they are going to.

Seems like you are agreeing that LFD’s should also be accepted as an entry condition 😁

[007]

Is it? If no ID is being asked for then you can literally just get your pals certificate and rock up. You don’t even need to go through the hassle of getting a LFD to scan into the NHS system.

It’s simple, if they want it to be effective in stopping infections spreading then tests should be built into the process as well if not vaccinated.

Yes it is easier to fake a lft than a covid passport. Your case seems to rely on no ID being asked for. Hibs have asked for us to bring along photo ID, so it has been asked for. Now you're relying on a steward asking to see the vaccine certificate (your pals) but not any photo ID. If he/she does ask for it, then what is your plan?

How would you implement the LFT process so that it can't be circumvented?

[hibbysam]

Yes it is easier to fake a lft than a covid passport. Your case seems to rely on no ID being asked for. Hibs have asked for us to bring along photo ID, so it has been asked for. Now you're relying on a steward asking to see the vaccine certificate (your pals) but not any photo ID. If he/she does ask for it, then what is your plan?

How would you implement the LFT process so that it can't be circumvented?

Unless it’s hidden in the code of conduct - I can’t see where Hibs have asked us to bring photo ID? Would make no sense when they say the app doesn’t give any data, now your saying they are asking for photo ID which includes name DOB address etc to show a random steward?

I’d expect that a steward on the gate has no legal standing when it comes to asking a member of the public for their ID.

[greenlex]

I think certainly from a season ticket holder point of view it can’t be that hard to link your Covid passport validity to your ticket. That’s surely going to save a lot checking in match-days . Quite literally if your vaccinated properly or exempt and it’s linked to your ticket in you go. If your not your season ticket won’t be accepted at the turnstile. It can’t be that difficult. Checked once electronically once should be enough.

[J-C]

Not everyone will be checked, it will be random and if you have no passport or similar with a photo ID that goes with it, you may be asked to leave. Does anyone want to be looking stupid in front of hundreds when you get stopped and have either someone else's passport or nothing at all.

[007]

Unless it’s hidden in the code of conduct - I can’t see where Hibs have asked us to bring photo ID? Would make no sense when they say the app doesn’t give any data, now your saying they are asking for photo ID which includes name DOB address etc to show a random steward?

I’d expect that a steward on the gate has no legal standing when it comes to asking a member of the public for their ID.

Yes it is in the code of conduct which there is a link to from the supporter information article on the website.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/supporter-information-covid-passports

You've now focused on the ID aspect and steered it away from giving an entry method for lateral flow tests that can't be circumvented. Is that because it would in fact be easier to get in with someone else's lft than with someone else's vaccine passport?

[hibbyfraelibby]

Unless it’s hidden in the code of conduct - I can’t see where Hibs have asked us to bring photo ID? Would make no sense when they say the app doesn’t give any data, now your saying they are asking for photo ID which includes name DOB address etc to show a random steward?

I’d expect that a steward on the gate has no legal standing when it comes to asking a member of the public for their ID.

Its in the Code of Conduct. We had a rhread about at start of the season...

[wookie70]

I can't believe that I am reading that some people are really trying to work out how to circumvent the covid status checks to get into a football match!! 🙄


No-one is doing that. They are pointing out it will be easy to get round the restrictions. It doesn't really take much to work it out. If the vast majority will have it on their phones then there may be bigger queues than I expected given the club are advising the use of paper copies. If IDs are not being counter checked against the app then mates will be able to have a digital copy of their mates passport on their phones so that isn't an issue.

[malcolm]

Not everyone will be checked, it will be random and if you have no passport or similar with a photo ID that goes with it, you may be asked to leave. Does anyone want to be looking stupid in front of hundreds when you get stopped and have either someone else's passport or nothing at all.

It is up to event organisers if they wish to check ID and for Hibs the code of conduct does not say you must bring it, rather that you may be asked for ID. We don’t have an ID card system in this country and it is not necessary for anyone to apply for a passport or to have a driving licence with the photo card which be why the wording is vague. I’d not be going to a game with my passport but there should be no reason for bank cards to be unacceptable in the unlikely event any random check goes beyond a quick scan of your QR code or cursory look at your evidence.

If you are over 60 you’d have a photo bus pass but as near enough 100% will have had at least 2 doses, it is a bit of a waste of time to check the more mature supporter:wink:

The idea of the system is probably twofold - encourage vaccination and give reassurance, it has probably already done this.

The guidance says:

“Businesses and event organisers can:

check customer vaccine certificates using the NHS Scotland COVID Check app – you can get more information on how to do this at 'using the app' on the app website, or
visually inspect customer vaccine certificates
Venue operators and event organisers may choose to cross-check the identity of the person displaying their COVID vaccine certificate with other forms of identification (for example, name of person on the ticket with driving licence) which many venues and event organisers already do before allowing entry.

Checking identification will be for the premises to decide as a condition of entry, just as it would be normally.”

[tamig]

That’s my viewpoint, however that’s irrelevant here.

My point is the original poster made the suggestion that tests can’t be used as they are easily forged/cheated/made up, yet the exact same will be said for vaccine passports as there is no chance the club is going to employ additional stewards at a large cost, or have fans waiting hours to get in so that they can check everyone and have ID checked to ensure you are who you say you are.

Just catching up on this so maybe answered in a later post. Where have the club said that ID checks will be carried out? The only checks being carried out are vaccine status - as far as I’m aware. Albeit anybody using the app will have had to provide proof of ID to access that. Obviously open to abuse as far as paper is concerned.

[hibbysam]

Yes it is in the code of conduct which there is a link to from the supporter information article on the website.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/supporter-information-covid-passports

You've now focused on the ID aspect and steered it away from giving an entry method for lateral flow tests that can't be circumvented. Is that because it would in fact be easier to get in with someone else's lft than with someone else's vaccine passport?

LFD’s can’t be foolproof - again, I haven’t said they could… I also don’t think you will be asked for ID for your vaccine passport to prove its yours, therefore I feel that also won’t be foolproof. It would be very easy to ‘circumvent’ both methods.

[007]

LFD’s can’t be foolproof - again, I haven’t said they could… I also don’t think you will be asked for ID for your vaccine passport to prove its yours, therefore I feel that also won’t be foolproof. It would be very easy to ‘circumvent’ both methods.

Your point was that vaccine passports would be as easy as to get around as would the alternative you've been advocating of a negative lft. I say you are wrong. The lft method would be a lot easier to circumvent because getting in with someone else's vaccine passport relies on a steward not asking for ID. Just because you don't think they'll ask for ID it doesn't mean the risk isn't there that they will (even just sometimes). That's how lots of criminals get caught, they think they'll get away with it but they don't.

[hibbysam]

Your point was that vaccine passports would be as easy as to get around as would the alternative you've been advocating of a negative lft. I say you are wrong. The lft method would be a lot easier to circumvent because getting in with someone else's vaccine passport relies on a steward not asking for ID. Just because you don't think they'll ask for ID it doesn't mean the risk isn't there that they will (even just sometimes). That's how lots of criminals get caught, they think they'll get away with it but they don't.

Two points - it’s just as easy to get someone else’s ID as it is to get their vaccine passport - and secondly there is next to no chance they're asking for proof of ID. The club don’t want this, so aren’t going to go above and beyond what they are being asked to do to turn punters away.

[007]

Two points - it’s just as easy to get someone else’s ID as it is to get their vaccine passport - and secondly there is next to no chance they're asking for proof of ID. The club don’t want this, so aren’t going to go above and beyond what they are being asked to do to turn punters away.

Maybe you'd have no problem asking a pal to let you use their vaccine passport and photo ID for fraudulent purposes and maybe you've got plenty of pals that would be happy to hand them over (personally I'd tell you to f*** off) but I'd bet there's folk who would find it easier to get a negative lft from someone else as it can't be traced to who the co-fraudster is.

[Eyrie]

Strikes me that some people are willing to put more effort into breaking the rules so they can attend a football match than it would take them to get vaccinated.

[hibbysam]

Maybe you'd have no problem asking a pal to let you use their vaccine passport and photo ID for fraudulent purposes and maybe you've got plenty of pals that would be happy to hand them over (personally I'd tell you to f*** off) but I'd bet there's folk who would find it easier to get a negative lft from someone else as it can't be traced to who the co-fraudster is.

I don’t need to. It’s impossible for the club to stop fans circumventing the passport though, nor do they really have an appetite to. They’ll do the bare minimum to show their compliance.

Same could easily be done for the LFD’s. They were fine for the euros last summer, and are continuously being pushed out for more and more events, they’re obviously not that worried about them being forged.

[007]

Strikes me that some people are willing to put more effort into breaking the rules so they can attend a football match than it would take them to get vaccinated.

👍 It is extremely easy to get vaccinated. I sometimes wonder how many anti-vaxxers are just scared if needles.

[jgl07]

I think certainly from a season ticket holder point of view it can’t be that hard to link your Covid passport validity to your ticket. That’s surely going to save a lot checking in match-days . Quite literally if your vaccinated properly or exempt and it’s linked to your ticket in you go. If your not your season ticket won’t be accepted at the turnstile. It can’t be that difficult. Checked once electronically once should be enough.
Who the hell will be able to reprogramme the turnstiles to scan two bar codes/QR codes simultaneously (from the same phone?) in time for Saturday?

This is moving into fantasy territory.

Serious checks will not happen. How many stewards will it take to check 15,000 (or so) people entering Easter Road? Who will sort out who is exempt and who is under age? A few will be checked at random and waved through.

It is all an attempt to scare a limited number of refuseniks to have injections.

[Since90+2]

Who the hell will be able to reprogramme the turnstiles to scan two bar codes/QR codes simultaneously (from the same phone?) in time for Saturday?

This is moving into fantasy territory.

Serious checks will not happen. How many stewards will it take to check 15,000 (or so) people entering Easter Road? Who will sort out who is exempt and who is under age? A few will be checked at random and waved through.

It is all an attempt to scare a limited number of refuseniks to have injections.

They've already said that spot checks are all that will be happening so 15,000 would never be checked.

[basehibby]

As Scotland's entry into a "show me your papers" health-apartheid society approaches I find myself in a quandry. I know this is is not of Hibs' doing, but neither have they made any clear statement in opposition to the impending new rules.

I have made an enquiry into the possibility of receiving a partial refund for my ST but have heard not a peep in reply and, in any case, am in two minds as to whether that's what I want to do.

I'm somewhat surprised re the silence emanating from Scottish Football in general about this, given that young players are being put in direct danger given the pressure they are being put under to receive a jab whith zero clinical benefit to them - despite the known risks of miocarditis - a condition that could end careers overnight as well as likely leading to an early death.

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there? And have you heard anything from the club re ST refunds etc?

[Sir David Gray]

Who the hell will be able to reprogramme the turnstiles to scan two bar codes/QR codes simultaneously (from the same phone?) in time for Saturday?

This is moving into fantasy territory.

Serious checks will not happen. How many stewards will it take to check 15,000 (or so) people entering Easter Road? Who will sort out who is exempt and who is under age? A few will be checked at random and waved through.

It is all an attempt to scare a limited number of refuseniks to have injections.

Clubs have been told they're expected to check 20% of the crowd in a spot check exercise so based on our home crowds so far less than 3,000 people will be check.

[green day]

Facebook tinfoil hat forum for this pish.................

[Heisenberg]

“Nitler” 😂

And no, the club won’t refund STs.

[Northernhibee]

Should probably have done your own research into T&Cs of entry.

[green day]

Who the hell will be able to reprogramme the turnstiles to scan two bar codes/QR codes simultaneously (from the same phone?) in time for Saturday?

This is moving into fantasy territory.

Serious checks will not happen. How many stewards will it take to check 15,000 (or so) people entering Easter Road? Who will sort out who is exempt and who is under age? A few will be checked at random and waved through.

It is all an attempt to scare a limited number of refuseniks to have injections.

I dont think that is what he was suggesting.

[Pretty Boy]

Who's Nitler?

Another appointment that Ron Gordon hasn't seen fit to communicate to the fans!!!!!!

[Skol]

Just get the vaccine.

[Northernhibee]

Just get the vaccine.

This. If you can’t be arsed protecting those around you I couldn’t give two ****s if you’re not allowed in next to me or my old man, and the club shouldn’t be expected to lose out because of your own choice either.

[WhileTheChief..]

Thread was started this morning so can't even it put it down to the OP being ridiculously drunk.

Nonsense from start to finish.

[Orchard_Hibs]

I am all for the pro choice of getting the vaccine or not but what exactly do you expect hibs to do about government legislation? Hibs are not going to go to war with the Scottish government and we should not expect them to.

If you’ve bought your ST you must have realised this could be a possibility as much as not getting to attend any games might have been a possibility again.

[Hiber-nation]

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there?

Hopefully you are. Stop being so naive and just get the bloody vaccine.

[tamig]

As Scotland's entry into a "show me your papers" health-apartheid society approaches I find myself in a quandry. I know this is is not of Hibs' doing, but neither have they made any clear statement in opposition to the impending new rules.

I have made an enquiry into the possibility of receiving a partial refund for my ST but have heard not a peep in reply and, in any case, am in two minds as to whether that's what I want to do.

I'm somewhat surprised re the silence emanating from Scottish Football in general about this, given that young players are being put in direct danger given the pressure they are being put under to receive a jab whith zero clinical benefit to them - despite the known risks of miocarditis - a condition that could end careers overnight as well as likely leading to an early death.

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there? And have you heard anything from the club re ST refunds etc?

You could have added this on to the Vaccine Certificate thread. What a waste of a thread. An OP full of nonsense.

[EskbankHibby]

Stopped reading at “zero clinical benefit”, should probably have stopped at the thread title.

[Allant1981]

This is going to sound harsh but i really hope you get told to bolt when it comes to your refund, most people knew some form of passport/certificate was going to be required so why bother getting a season ticket in the 1st place, and if you can't be bothered getting vaccinated im glad you wont be near people who have done so

[vercol36]

Sounds like a jambo

[Keith_M]

As Scotland's entry into a "show me your papers" health-apartheid society approaches I find myself in a quandry. I know this is is not of Hibs' doing, but neither have they made any clear statement in opposition to the impending new rules.

I have made an enquiry into the possibility of receiving a partial refund for my ST but have heard not a peep in reply and, in any case, am in two minds as to whether that's what I want to do.

I'm somewhat surprised re the silence emanating from Scottish Football in general about this, given that young players are being put in direct danger given the pressure they are being put under to receive a jab whith zero clinical benefit to them - despite the known risks of miocarditis - a condition that could end careers overnight as well as likely leading to an early death.

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there? And have you heard anything from the club re ST refunds etc?



:faf:

[Northernhibee]

Sounds like a jambo

All the Jambos I know have done their bit for society and got their jab.

Sevcoite maybe?

[The Harp Awakes]

As Scotland's entry into a "show me your papers" health-apartheid society approaches I find myself in a quandry. I know this is is not of Hibs' doing, but neither have they made any clear statement in opposition to the impending new rules.

I have made an enquiry into the possibility of receiving a partial refund for my ST but have heard not a peep in reply and, in any case, am in two minds as to whether that's what I want to do.

I'm somewhat surprised re the silence emanating from Scottish Football in general about this, given that young players are being put in direct danger given the pressure they are being put under to receive a jab whith zero clinical benefit to them - despite the known risks of miocarditis - a condition that could end careers overnight as well as likely leading to an early death.

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there? And have you heard anything from the club re ST refunds etc?

You forgot the bit about the world being flat.

[basehibby]

Facebook tinfoil hat forum for this pish.................

This is an issue that directly affects Hibs fans - and it's not "tinfoil hat" - it's reality in case you hadn't noticed. :na na:

[basehibby]

You forgot the bit about the world being flat.

Oh come on - you can do better than that. Or maybe not :rolleyes:

[basehibby]

Just get the vaccine.

I'd rather go sky diving - safer

[OstKurve Hibs]

As Scotland's entry into a "show me your papers" health-apartheid society approaches I find myself in a quandry. I know this is is not of Hibs' doing, but neither have they made any clear statement in opposition to the impending new rules.

I have made an enquiry into the possibility of receiving a partial refund for my ST but have heard not a peep in reply and, in any case, am in two minds as to whether that's what I want to do.

I'm somewhat surprised re the silence emanating from Scottish Football in general about this, given that young players are being put in direct danger given the pressure they are being put under to receive a jab whith zero clinical benefit to them - despite the known risks of miocarditis - a condition that could end careers overnight as well as likely leading to an early death.

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there? And have you heard anything from the club re ST refunds etc?

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.

[hibbysam]

This is going to sound harsh but i really hope you get told to bolt when it comes to your refund, most people knew some form of passport/certificate was going to be required so why bother getting a season ticket in the 1st place, and if you can't be bothered getting vaccinated im glad you wont be near people who have done so

That’s nonsense to be fair, our first minister was clear that she was not going to introduce passports and said so on many occasions that she wasn’t in favour of this. Hence why it came as such a shock and annoyance of football in general.

[basehibby]

I should not be surprised re the quantity of blinkered ignoramuses on Hibs.net as it's merely a reflection of wider society. I am still interested to see if there are any others like me who refuse to go along with this pish - jabbed or unjabbed.

[Allant1981]

That’s nonsense to be fair, our first minister was clear that she was not going to introduce passports and said so on many occasions that she wasn’t in favour of this. Hence why it came as such a shock and annoyance of football in general.

It came as a shock, not to anyone i know, we all knew something would happen, especially when england started to talk about it

[Pretty Boy]

I'd rather go sky diving - safer

Death rate from skydiving is approx 1 in 100000
Death rate from the covid vaccine is approx 0.82 per 100000.

Both minimal but if you are concerned about that 0.18 then probably best to pack the parachute away and roll up your sleeve.

[Allant1981]

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.

So they directly died due to getting the vaccine, aye ok then

[Hiber-nation]

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.

This has got to be a wind up.

[OstKurve Hibs]

So they directly died due to getting the vaccine, aye ok then

Well they were perfectly fine before it, go figure

[Allant1981]

Well they were perfectly fine before it, go figure

Again, aye ok then

[Peevemor]

Well they were perfectly fine before it, go figure

A few folk at my wife's work died after being vaccinated. Their average age was about 90 but still - down with the health fascists!

[Moulin Yarns]

I'd rather go sky diving - safer

That's a good idea, do it without a parachute, because that's the equivalent of not getting vaccinated!

[Pretty Boy]

I was reading yesterday about the death of the GB diving coach, David Jenkins, aged only 31. I read about it on both the BBC and then The Guardian and as is standard in these situations they both stated the 'cause of death is unknown'.

The story was trending on Twitter and the vast majority of comments appeared to be from people pushing an anti vaccination message suggesting, with little in the way of proof, that his death was as a result of 'vaccine injury'. Firstly that is reprehensible behaviour, to use the detah of a young man to push an agenda based on nothing more than supposition is low. Secondly it shows a lack of understanding as to what 'unknown' actually means in this instance. The Police, medics and indeed the mans family will now likely have a good idea as to why he died. In the reporting 'unknown' simply means not officially confirmed and not publicly disclosed. Even the worst of the press in the UK tend to show a bit respect in these situations even if the mob on Twitter don't. Given the range of things that can cause death in men in their early 30s to immediately jump to 'vaccine injury' shows an inherent bias in someones thinking.

That bias is the important bit. People who are anti vaccination will accuse the majority of being 'sheep', 'blinkered', 'ignorant' and various other things. We have seen it on this thread. Now I can just about accept there may well be a global conspiracy that has seen the US cooperate with China, the UK with Russia, Israel with Iran to deliberately cull the herd but it seems astonishingly unlikely. Even allowing for the murky world of geopolitics and big pharma. Taking a different view from the majority doesn't mean you aren't a sheep, it just means you are a sheep who is part of a smaller flock. 'Do your own research' is another often heard cry. I'd be curious as to what percentage of anti vaccination proponents have actually done their own research. Doing your own research doesn't mean reading what might be termed alternative media which puts a slant on discussion and publishes selective data lifted from source material. Nor does it mean shouting loudly as part of a crowd on twitter nor does it mean watching YouTube videos. The only way anyone can claim to have truly done their own research is if they dig into the primary source material themselves, understand it, put relevant controls in place and then form a conclusion based on what they read. Of course I've not done that, I'm happy to place my trust in the scientific and medical consensus. I'm not claiming to be somehow more enlightened than others though.

[Skol]

Blimey. There are some villages being deprived of idiots.

[Northernhibee]

I'd rather go sky diving - safer

Sky diving won’t reduce the risk of ending up in hospital with Covid, neither will it reduce the likelihood of you transmitting it to others though.

Best getting the jab instead.

[Moulin Yarns]

I should not be surprised re the quantity of blinkered ignoramuses on Hibs.net as it's merely a reflection of wider society. I am still interested to see if there are any others like me who refuse to go along with this pish - jabbed or unjabbed.

You mentioned reflection, look in the mirror 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

Strikes me that some people are willing to put more effort into breaking the rules so they can attend a football match than it would take them to get vaccinated.

That's the point I was trying to get over.

[Moulin Yarns]

👍 It is extremely easy to get vaccinated. I sometimes wonder how many anti-vaxxers are just scared if needles.

Or just being pricks! 😉

[Skol]

I should not be surprised re the quantity of blinkered ignoramuses on Hibs.net as it's merely a reflection of wider society. I am still interested to see if there are any others like me who refuse to go along with this pish - jabbed or unjabbed.

If the vast majority hadn’t been vaccinated we would still be in lockdown in some shape or form. You really should ponder on that fact and think about the impact your inaction has.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I'd rather go sky diving - safer
You do realise you need a certificate for that😉

[hibbyfraelibby]

I should not be surprised re the quantity of blinkered ignoramuses on Hibs.net as it's merely a reflection of wider society. I am still interested to see if there are any others like me who refuse to go along with this pish - jabbed or unjabbed.

As a prime example I presume you typed that post whilst looking into a highly polished mirror.

[HH81]

I'd rather go sky diving - safer

You'll know more than scientists right enough.

[J-C]

As Scotland's entry into a "show me your papers" health-apartheid society approaches I find myself in a quandry. I know this is is not of Hibs' doing, but neither have they made any clear statement in opposition to the impending new rules.

I have made an enquiry into the possibility of receiving a partial refund for my ST but have heard not a peep in reply and, in any case, am in two minds as to whether that's what I want to do.

I'm somewhat surprised re the silence emanating from Scottish Football in general about this, given that young players are being put in direct danger given the pressure they are being put under to receive a jab whith zero clinical benefit to them - despite the known risks of miocarditis - a condition that could end careers overnight as well as likely leading to an early death.

I surely cannot be the only Hibs fan in this position - anyone else out there? And have you heard anything from the club re ST refunds etc?

The study re myocardìtis from Canada was proved to be wrong due to getting their maths wrong.

[hibbyfraelibby]

This has got to be a wind up.

Of course it is. The OPs use of that well known Yoon term Nitler, an alternative to Nicoliar or Wee Krankie exposed the true motivation for the post

[Jay]

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.

I have sympathy for people like you if I'm honest. You'll know a lot more people, almost everybody , who has had the vaccine and been absolutely fine but when people die you get scared . I know of a few who have died from the virus but none from the vaccine.

The sad fact is that the government haven't just decided to introduce a vaccine randomly, there's a virus out there that's killed millions worldwide and they had to react. Our personal choice is to risk getting the virus and if it doesn't kill you it may leave you with long term health issues...or take a vaccine that has its risks but they are much smaller and less likely. Its not a trial untested vaccine as many tried to say, its been used on masses for nearly a year now but it does carry risks. The vaccine not only protects you but others around you though.

Our back are against the wall - virus or vaccine. There's no other choice.

Unfortunately it's been decided around the world that no vaccine means there's situations that you are putting others at risk. I'm uncomfortable with that as I think there's other options but that's how it is for now.

[cabbageandribs1875]

So they directly died due to getting the vaccine, aye ok then


i don't believe that for one minute, not one minute

[JimBHibees]

i don't believe that for one minute, not one minute

I kind of think that might have made the press.

[Coco Bryce]

The study re myocardìtis from Canada was proved to be wrong due to getting their maths wrong.

The one from Israel wasn't though.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/94892

[Coco Bryce]

I kind of think that might have made the press.

You seriously think they would allow them to print that even if it was true?

[hibbysam]

That's a good idea, do it without a parachute, because that's the equivalent of not getting vaccinated!

That’s as bad as all the other takes on here. Not using a parachute will 99.99% of the time result in death (00.01% being a stunt). Not getting vaccinated will mean a higher chance, but still extremely small chance in relative terms (don’t have the figures to hand) of death.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I kind of think that might have made the press.


and astonishingly huge odds for 'knowing' those that have died from the vaccine, i lost a relative early doors to the virus but i've never even read on social media of anyone dying from the vaccine, of course it has happened, but to actually 'knowing some' that have died from the vaccine :hmmm:

[OstKurve Hibs]

I have sympathy for people like you if I'm honest. You'll know a lot more people, almost everybody , who has had the vaccine and been absolutely fine but when people die you get scared . I know of a few who have died from the virus but none from the vaccine.

The sad fact is that the government haven't just decided to introduce a vaccine randomly, there's a virus out there that's killed millions worldwide and they had to react. Our personal choice is to risk getting the virus and if it doesn't kill you it may leave you with long term health issues...or take a vaccine that has its risks but they are much smaller and less likely. Its not a trial untested vaccine as many tried to say, its been used on masses for nearly a year now but it does carry risks. The vaccine not only protects you but others around you though.

Our back are against the wall - virus or vaccine. There's no other choice.

Unfortunately it's been decided around the world that no vaccine means there's situations that you are putting others at risk. I'm uncomfortable with that as I think there's other options but that's how it is for now.

I dont need your sympathy mate, I sympathise with anyone that feels the need to be-little and bully people for choosing not to get the vaccine, you people are vaccinated so why do you care about other peoples life choices. Yous are the ones that are scared,
As you said yourself, "it does carry risks" !

I suppose you also beleive that every death put down as covid was covid aswell ?

[BlackSheep]

There is one thing i hope happens regarding those who refuse to get the vaccine and therefore may be unable to attend Hibs games, that thing is my hope that some of the roasters who sit around me at the games are anti-vaxers and i won't have to listen to the drivel that spews from their mouths every week... :greengrin

I wonder if we could ask the admins to make it a requirement for using the forums too lolololol.

As every day passes i hear or read so much utter tosh in regard to vaccinations.... Its simple, the sooner we ALL get vaccinated, the sooner we can get back to normal.... those who think we are returning to normal now are mistaken, normality is far from the direction we are heading.

[mim]

The one from Israel wasn't though.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/94892

Note this statement from that article:

"Nevertheless, the latest data do not negate the previous finding that myocarditis is more common after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after vaccination"

[The dalmeny]

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.

How many is a ‘few’ and what was the cause of death on their death certificates?

im genuinely sorry for any loss you’ve experienced, I am sure There have been instances where someone may have died because of the vaccine but I’m sorry I just don’t believe you know a ‘few’. I personally know 2 people who have died of Covid (one was buried this week) and one who has has serious long Covid.

I don’t know anyone who has died of the vaccine, neither do my immediate family and friends. It’s funny how some others seem to know ‘a few’ and others know none at all coincidental.

you’re entitled to choose not to have a vaccine, we have a teenage child who is unvaccinated and we need to decide what is best for him and we appreciate that may have repercussions

[J-C]

The one from Israel wasn't though.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/94892

Between 2-10 in 100k people and the virus itself increases myocardial problems.

[BlackSheep]

I dont need your sympathy mate, I sympathise with anyone that feels the need to be-little and bully people for choosing not to get the vaccine, you people are vaccinated so why do you care about other peoples life choices. Yous are the ones that are scared,
As you said yourself, "it does carry risks" !

I suppose you also beleive that every death put down as covid was covid aswell ?

Walking out the front door in the morning 'carries risk' yet you do it dont you?

[Jay]

I dont need your sympathy mate, I sympathise with anyone that feels the need to be-little and bully people for choosing not to get the vaccine, you people are vaccinated so why do you care about other peoples life choices. Yous are the ones that are scared,
As you said yourself, "it does carry risks" !

I suppose you also beleive that every death put down as covid was covid aswell ?

I'm not belittling or bullying anyone. What I'm saying is I understand how people are torn but we are in a situation where the risk is there regardless. The virus carries much bigger risks of death and long term health issues as well as transmitting it to others where the vaccine carries a risk but much smaller. We are in a horrible situation of having to make a choice on what risk we want to take. I actually believe there's a lot of deaths that would have happened anyway but the person also had covid but also that people are dying (I know of one last week) months after having covid but never fully recovered and its not classed as a covid death. I have sympathy for people who have taken an educated and reasoned decision not to have the vaccine. I've said many times I think there should be an option of a neg test for this group.

[J-C]

I dont need your sympathy mate, I sympathise with anyone that feels the need to be-little and bully people for choosing not to get the vaccine, you people are vaccinated so why do you care about other peoples life choices. Yous are the ones that are scared,
As you said yourself, "it does carry risks" !

I suppose you also beleive that every death put down as covid was covid aswell ?

I bet your glad your mum gave you the MMR jab and the Polio inoculation. The number of people who say they're not putting foreign drugs into their bodies but are happy snorting coke, smoking, drinking alcohol and getting tattoos nakes me laugh, eejits.

[OstKurve Hibs]

I'm not belittling or bullying anyone. What I'm saying is I understand how people are torn but we are in a situation where the risk is there regardless. The virus carries much bigger risks of death and long term health issues as well as transmitting it to others where the vaccine carries a risk but much smaller. We are in a horrible situation of having to make a choice on what risk we want to take. I actually believe there's a lot of deaths that would have happened anyway but the person also had covid but also that people are dying (I know of one last week) months after having covid but never fully recovered and its not classed as a covid death. I have sympathy for people who have taken an educated and reasoned decision not to have the vaccine. I've said many times I think there should be an option of a neg test for this group.

I know a guy who was in his mid 50s, ran his own business, never smoked in his life, social drinker. Dropped dead from a massive heart attack, I know a woman who was found dead after getting it but was otherwise healthy, again a non smoker, social drinker
My mates sister, got 1st jab, took an anaphylactic reaction to it,
My mates old man, got jabbed, few days later found on his caravan floor worki g away from home, hed had a stroke and was lying there for ten hours before he was found, again otherwise healthy until the jab

I didnt necessarily mean you about bullying people into getting it.
All you have to do is read the covid posts on this site and the have the vaccinated tryin to tell people what to do with their own bodies, calling people pricks and whatever else because they dare to disagree with them and do what they feel is best for themselves.

Amd it's pretty common knowledge that a massive percentages of deaths arent noted as covid or vaccine injury so why would anyone trust that ?

[JimBHibees]

You seriously think they would allow them to print that even if it was true?

You seriously think families claiming this would not be heard by the press?

[Jay]

I know a guy who was in his mid 50s, ran his own business, never smoked in his life, social drinker. Dropped dead from a massive heart attack, I know a woman who was found dead after getting it but was otherwise healthy, again a non smoker, social drinker
My mates sister, got 1st jab, took an anaphylactic reaction to it,
My mates old man, got jabbed, few days later found on his caravan floor worki g away from home, hed had a stroke and was lying there for ten hours before he was found, again otherwise healthy until the jab

I didnt necessarily mean you about bullying people into getting it.
All you have to do is read the covid posts on this site and the have the vaccinated tryin to tell people what to do with their own bodies, calling people pricks and whatever else because they dare to disagree with them and do what they feel is best for themselves.

Amd it's pretty common knowledge that a massive percentages of deaths arent noted as covid or vaccine injury so why would anyone trust that ?

Did you ever find out the cause of death for these people? Or wouldn't you believe it anyway? Most people are 'healthy' until an event like those you describe happens . Unfortunately over the years I've know lots of people die unexpectedly. It's a horrible fact of life.

Anyway I'll leave it at that. I understand the frustration at not being allowed to events etc but you've also got to understand people's frustration at others not taking the vaccine and the risk that causes.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.

Whilst I would never wish to be insensitive to anyone's loss and it clearly must be distressing to have lost several people who you know over the course of the last 10 months, I'm not so sure the vaccine will be the cause.

According to Public Health Scotland until mid-August there had been 4 deaths registered in Scotland where the underlying cause of death had been adverse effects from one of the Covid-19 vaccines.

Each of those deaths a complete tragedy of course and whilst I'm sure it gives little comfort to anyone who knew these 4 people, over 4 million people had received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine by then.

[RoscoHibby]

Some on here, in fact the majority, need to lay off the BBC a bit and start looking at what they’re being fed objectively. The MSM have a lot to answer for here. But a few reminders for people here:

It was finally admitted in the House of Commons last month that the Covid IFR is 0.0197 - pretty much the same as the flu. Have we ever gone to such lengths for the flu?? FOI requests the country over all show no excess mortality across 2020, in fact 2018 was worse as we had a bad flu season.

The vaccines - this is the clinical trial. If you’ve looked into the history of this technology, it never got past animal trials, as the animals died, or when got exposed to the virus, symptoms were even worse and usually fatal. This has been around for some time. In fact ModeRNA had failed 8 previous times to bring these to market, they’ve only now succeeded with the Emergency usage. Have a google of ‘Pfizer lawsuit’ - one of the most criminal organisations in history.

Passports - The biggest champion of these ‘vaccines’ is Fauci (he’s been told several times by the US patent office these products don’t meet the criteria of being a vaccine) has also admitted live on telly, that both the vaxxed & unvaxxed carry the exact same viral load…so has literally no affect on transmission…none…so what is the point in segregating all societies?? It’s certainly not for ‘the science’.

You should start asking some serious questions of this narrative and what you are actually saying to other people, as ‘you’ll feel better with no unvaxxed at ER’ has no logic to it whatsoever…

Also, for those that actually interested and can see past their own life for a second, should look
into the UK’s use of Midazolam in March and April 2020…this is actually beyond belief and there is a damning paper trail of official NHS official documents.

The kicker now is, the almost praising of bashing the ‘unvaxxed’…at the same time as the other day, British Airways stopped its pilots addressing the plane as ‘ladies & gentlemen’ in case they offend someone that identifies as a wardrobe or something…but someone refusing experimental drugs is fair game for anything it seems..

World has lost its ****ing mind.

[CapitalGreen]

Some on here, in fact the majority, need to lay off the BBC a bit and start looking at what they’re being fed objectively. The MSM have a lot to answer for here. But a few reminders for people here:

It was finally admitted in the House of Commons last month that the Covid IFR is 0.0197 - pretty much the same as the flu. Have we ever gone to such lengths for the flu?? FOI requests the country over all show no excess mortality across 2020, in fact 2018 was worse as we had a bad flu season.

The vaccines - this is the clinical trial. If you’ve looked into the history of this technology, it never got past animal trials, as the animals died, or when got exposed to the virus, symptoms were even worse and usually fatal. This has been around for some time. In fact ModeRNA had failed 8 previous times to bring these to market, they’ve only now succeeded with the Emergency usage. Have a google of ‘Pfizer lawsuit’ - one of the most criminal organisations in history.

Passports - The biggest champion of these ‘vaccines’ is Fauci (he’s been told several times by the US patent office these products don’t meet the criteria of being a vaccine) has also admitted live on telly, that both the vaxxed & unvaxxed carry the exact same viral load…so has literally no affect on transmission…none…so what is the point in segregating all societies?? It’s certainly not for ‘the science’.

You should start asking some serious questions of this narrative and what you are actually saying to other people, as ‘you’ll feel better with no unvaxxed at ER’ has no logic to it whatsoever…

Also, for those that actually interested and can see past their own life for a second, should look
into the UK’s use of Midazolam in March and April 2020…this is actually beyond belief and there is a damning paper trail of official NHS official documents.

The kicker now is, the almost praising of bashing the ‘unvaxxed’…at the same time as the other day, British Airways stopped its pilots addressing the plane as ‘ladies & gentlemen’ in case they offend someone that identifies as a wardrobe or something…but someone refusing experimental drugs is fair game for anything it seems..

World has lost its ****ing mind.

Enjoy watching the games at home on a stream mate 👍

[RoscoHibby]

Enjoy watching the games at home on a stream mate 👍

This is so much more about watching hibs mate. This attitude is just helping keep the perpetual nonsense we’re living through going. What like is this place gonna be for our kids?

But I think I’ll just take in the away game’s under 10k, should be good to go for Dundee clubs, prob no go up to Ross Co too often actually, Motherwell, Livi, St J, St Mirren…I’ll be fine here…don’t you see the lack of any logic to this??

Another fundamental point here, you’ve had your jab, so you’re ‘protected’, what’s the problem. This seems to be the only medical product invented that doesn’t work when someone else doesn’t take it….🤷*♂️

[Skol]

and astonishingly huge odds for 'knowing' those that have died from the vaccine, i lost a relative early doors to the virus but i've never even read on social media of anyone dying from the vaccine, of course it has happened, but to actually 'knowing some' that have died from the vaccine :hmmm:

It was stated as knowing a few people which is definitely more than one and I would suggest at least three.

[CapitalGreen]

This is so much more about watching hibs mate. This attitude is just helping keep the perpetual nonsense we’re living through going. What like is this place gonna be for our kids?


I’d be more concerned about your kids growing up with a weirdo for a dad if I was you.

[BlackSheep]

Why do folk think that this is all a measure of control by governments cross the globe, or some sort of conspiracy?

Its stinks of heightened perception of ones worth... do you really think they care about Joe Public....?

On one hand folk are slamming the powers that be for neglecting the average person and with the other hand they're criticising them for trying to control us all....? Which one is it?

[RoscoHibby]

I’d be more concerned about your kids growing up with a weirdo for a dad if I was you.

🤣🤣🤣 backing up one of my points there very well sir…

Care to elaborate on why you think I’m a weirdo? All that logic and reasoning within my outlook? What bit is it?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Why do folk think that this is all a measure of control by governments cross the globe, or some sort of conspiracy?

Its stinks of heightened perception of ones worth... do you really think they care about Joe Public....?

On one hand folk are slamming the powers that be for neglecting the average person and with the other hand they're criticising them for trying to control us all....? Which one is it?



i'm positive i felt a chip enter my arm(both times) i can hear it making noises when i'm trying to get to sleep and i think maybe that's when they switch it on and off, they think we're sleeping, they're out there.. listening


oops, wrong forum



P.S. looking forward to my yearly flu jag next month and hopefully a covid booster at the same time :)

[Heisenberg]

Seems some folk need to lay off listening to that utter fruitcake David Icke.

[RoscoHibby]

Seems some folk need to lay off listening to that utter fruitcake David Icke.

I guess that was aimed at me…not an Icke fan, heard him ask some good questions before, then started talking about lizard people…enough said. I’m trying to keep logic here.

Here’s another one for you that really made me start questioning what was going on…remember people just dropping dead in the streets of China? Just dropping doon ‘dead’ then squads of boys in full blown nuclear suits out bleaching the streets n all that…then UK gov. start recording ‘deaths within 28days of a positive test’ If that’s not a red flag I don’t know what is…(let alone the efficacy of the test, which the CDC will drop use of in December..)

[Rumble de Thump]

After all this time people are still spreading dangerous anti-vax misinformation. You would think people would become better informed as the months go by rather than more ill informed. It's so creepy.

[Skol]

I guess that was aimed at me…not an Icke fan, heard him ask some good questions before, then started talking about lizard people…enough said. I’m trying to keep logic here.

Here’s another one for you that really made me start questioning what was going on…remember people just dropping dead in the streets of China? Just dropping doon ‘dead’ then squads of boys in full blown nuclear suits out bleaching the streets n all that…then UK gov. start recording ‘deaths within 28days of a positive test’ If that’s not a red flag I don’t know what is…(let alone the efficacy of the test, which the CDC will drop use of in December..)

I must have missed this - when did that happen?

[Heisenberg]

I guess that was aimed at me…not an Icke fan, heard him ask some good questions before, then started talking about lizard people…enough said. I’m trying to keep logic here.

Here’s another one for you that really made me start questioning what was going on…remember people just dropping dead in the streets of China? Just dropping doon ‘dead’ then squads of boys in full blown nuclear suits out bleaching the streets n all that…then UK gov. start recording ‘deaths within 28days of a positive test’ If that’s not a red flag I don’t know what is…(let alone the efficacy of the test, which the CDC will drop use of in December..)

Can’t say I remember that at all.

One quick Google of your Midazolam line and it brings up the following;

https://fullfact.org/online/david-icke-midazolam/

I’d be interested to take a look at all the NHS paper trails that you’ve seen that prove some sort of wrongdoing.

[Moulin Yarns]

I must have missed this - when did that happen?

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21F05U?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%2 51%24s&aoh=16341248031943&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2 ***-factcheck-coronavirus-art-performance-idUSKBN21F05U


False claim: Picture shows people dying of coronavirus in the streets A photo circulating on social media allegedly shows people dying of coronavirus in the street. Different iterations of the claim, which is accompanied by an aerial photograph of dozens of people lying on a street, locate the image in different parts of the world in which the coronavirus outbreak has been severe, like China ( here (https://www.facebook.com/upgradeyouriman/posts/530697414229948) ) and Italy ( here (https://www.facebook.com/Trip.sticc1/posts/2738814982903966) ).
This is false. The photo does not show COVID-19 patients dying in China nor Italy. It is an image from a 2014 art performance in Germany. The original photo was taken by Reuters photographer Kai Pfaffenbach.
As part of the art project on March 24, 2014, participants lay down on a pedestrian street in Frankfurt, Germany in memory of the Katzbach concentration camp inmates who were forced into a death march to the concentration camps of Buchenwald and Dachau on March 24, 1945. The location of the installation can be seen on Google street view ( bit.ly/3byYzC1 (https://bit.ly/3byYzC1) ). See this and other Reuters photographs of the performance here (https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCI1IX5599&SMLS=1&RW=1536&RH=674) .




Amidst the COVID-19 outbreak, this image has been repeatedly used alongside this misleading claim in different languages. ( here (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=478669849482284&set=a.103948000287806&type=3) , here (https://www.facebook.com/tuko.pamoja.10/posts/776289222778075) , here (https://www.facebook.com/upgradeyouriman/photos/a.301762337123458/530697384229951/?type=3&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARApnchgjQ9Ln4t4Lxdt7PxGwfeBvXiR z2Cwd1ezXs7O1YnHaEuOnh49EwMQGC8wohdAMvJSEDb9fPnATQ 2VPYV84BiyBgXYghsj42k9pybt3TgXVsT8cHXu_HU56KzKbIlL iQJlofCOrLE0G2MmzI-nJNMdkzHsRx3pwDUwaAOkfNnRtzBVGubXejIyoec-z7nVB8lTm22lEVGzP8ftKVshCtTGtQsm8KbBpnohFc05r7FQLQ STYDhuga2fZ0WTW7UB8riP2hg_9dXTnCzzlKPl9pNyUU2kmLul XKTuGObxD-zY8oG6NzQ8aJvMwJqNzQrpcwkkA5NabeeJYZCf57g&__tn__=-R) )


VERDICT

False: This photograph shows a 2014 art project in Germany in remembrance of holocaust victims

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our fact checking work here (https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about) .


https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-8509320385


Video falsely claims to show bodies of virus victims in China
By ARIJETA LAJKAFebruary 21, 2020

CLAIM: Video shows dead bodies waiting to be picked up in Wuhan, China, due to new coronavirus.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The video shows people sleeping in the streets in Shenzhen, China, a city over 600 miles away from Wuhan.

THE FACTS: A video circulating on social media that shows bodies covered with blankets on a street in China, is falsely identified as people who died from the new coronavirus.

“Wuhan China. Dead Bodies waiting 4 pickup. Coronavirus NO ordinary Virus. Is it intentionally released BIO WEAPON?” a Twitter user posted on Feb. 17.




The video actually shows people in Shenzhen sleeping on a street after the government issued a permit system for entering and exiting the city to prevent the spread of the virus. The Associated Press confirmed the location of the video through satellite imagery, and matched the buildings from the clip with buildings on Hualong Road.

According to local reports, the Shenzhen government introduced the permit system on Feb. 9. The system resulted in people being forced to sleep on the street overnight, according to several posts that featured the video. In a video of the scene shot from a different angle, it is clear the people have duvets and pillows.

The new coronavirus outbreak first emerged in Wuhan, the capital of central China’s Hubei province in December. There are confirmed cases in more than two dozen countries. Mainland China has more than 75,000 confirmed cases and more than 2,200 deaths.
___


You missed nothing.

[Allant1981]

I guess that was aimed at me…not an Icke fan, heard him ask some good questions before, then started talking about lizard people…enough said. I’m trying to keep logic here.

Here’s another one for you that really made me start questioning what was going on…remember people just dropping dead in the streets of China? Just dropping doon ‘dead’ then squads of boys in full blown nuclear suits out bleaching the streets n all that…then UK gov. start recording ‘deaths within 28days of a positive test’ If that’s not a red flag I don’t know what is…(let alone the efficacy of the test, which the CDC will drop use of in December..)

There was 1 man dead in the street that was photgraphed, they still dont know how he died, there was also a video of homeless people filmed that was falsely claimed to be dead people

[Brightside]

Facebook has a lot to answer for.

[J-C]

Facebook has a lot to answer for.

A lack of brain cells and common sense also, so many gullible eejits in the world nowadays who don't realise that all the films they watch are not real, no such thing as zombies.

[RoscoHibby]

Can’t say I remember that at all.

One quick Google of your Midazolam line and it brings up the following;

https://fullfact.org/online/david-icke-midazolam/

I’d be interested to take a look at all the NHS paper trails that you’ve seen that prove some sort of wrongdoing.


Not the original I read, was a while back, but seems to have most bases covered. Actually took ages to find with all that lovely censoring going on atm…

https://theexpose.uk/2021/06/13/stay-at-home-protect-the-nhs-give-midazolam-to-the-elderly-and-tell-you-they-are-covid-deaths/


Had a bit of jip as expected but on topic of ‘passports’ if both vaxed and unvaxxed are carrying the same viral load should they be infected…what is the point of a passport? Huge waste of time and money and ridiculously discriminative at a time when everyone n everything is bending over backwards not to offend anybody…..is it only me that sees the complete lack of logic here?

[RoscoHibby]

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21F05U?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%2 51%24s&aoh=16341248031943&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2 ***-factcheck-coronavirus-art-performance-idUSKBN21F05U


https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-8509320385

You missed nothing.


I watched it with my own eyes on the bbc. Switched that off after another week or so…

[BlackSheep]

i'm positive i felt a chip enter my arm(both times) i can hear it making noises when i'm trying to get to sleep and i think maybe that's when they switch it on and off, they think we're sleeping, they're out there.. listening


oops, wrong forum



P.S. looking forward to my yearly flu jag next month and hopefully a covid booster at the same time :)

Lol.... its just such a strange viewpoint isn't it!

Im in for my booster and flu jab on friday... must need the batteries updated in my chip!!!

[basehibby]

I'm with you on this, I'm not getting vaccinated either. I know a few people now who were fine and well until "just getting the vaccine" and now they are dead.
I lost a friend to an AZ jab too which certainly influenced my thinking - although I was already highly suspicious about the whole thing for a number of reasons.

[007]

Some on here, in fact the majority, need to lay off the BBC a bit and start looking at what they’re being fed objectively. The MSM have a lot to answer for here. But a few reminders for people here:

It was finally admitted in the House of Commons last month that the Covid IFR is 0.0197 - pretty much the same as the flu. Have we ever gone to such lengths for the flu?? FOI requests the country over all show no excess mortality across 2020, in fact 2018 was worse as we had a bad flu season.

The vaccines - this is the clinical trial. If you’ve looked into the history of this technology, it never got past animal trials, as the animals died, or when got exposed to the virus, symptoms were even worse and usually fatal. This has been around for some time. In fact ModeRNA had failed 8 previous times to bring these to market, they’ve only now succeeded with the Emergency usage. Have a google of ‘Pfizer lawsuit’ - one of the most criminal organisations in history.

Passports - The biggest champion of these ‘vaccines’ is Fauci (he’s been told several times by the US patent office these products don’t meet the criteria of being a vaccine) has also admitted live on telly, that both the vaxxed & unvaxxed carry the exact same viral load…so has literally no affect on transmission…none…so what is the point in segregating all societies?? It’s certainly not for ‘the science’.

You should start asking some serious questions of this narrative and what you are actually saying to other people, as ‘you’ll feel better with no unvaxxed at ER’ has no logic to it whatsoever…

Also, for those that actually interested and can see past their own life for a second, should look
into the UK’s use of Midazolam in March and April 2020…this is actually beyond belief and there is a damning paper trail of official NHS official documents.

The kicker now is, the almost praising of bashing the ‘unvaxxed’…at the same time as the other day, British Airways stopped its pilots addressing the plane as ‘ladies & gentlemen’ in case they offend someone that identifies as a wardrobe or something…but someone refusing experimental drugs is fair game for anything it seems..

World has lost its ****ing mind.

A lot of stuff posted but you want us to do the digging to find out whether it's true or not. Maybe post some links to your sources so we know whether it is legitimate or if it is the same old Facebook claptrap which has been debunked.

What legitimate source says the vaccines are experimental? Operation Warp Speed developed them at, warp speed. Pfizer was granted full approval by the FDA a couple of months ago, from emergency status (not experimental as you like to twist it).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(21)00140-6/fulltext

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2096

WTF has how BA address their passengers got to do vaccines / vaccine passports, other than to confirm my suspicion that everything else you said is also rambling conspiracy theory nonsense?

[basehibby]

This is going to sound harsh but i really hope you get told to bolt when it comes to your refund, most people knew some form of passport/certificate was going to be required so why bother getting a season ticket in the 1st place, and if you can't be bothered getting vaccinated im glad you wont be near people who have done so
Call me naive but I did not expect a government that describes itself as democratic to ride roughshod all over the UN Charter for Human Rights and the Nuremberg Convention.

[Coco Bryce]

I must have missed this - when did that happen?

Seriously? Do you live on the moon?

25191
25192
25193
25194

[007]

Lol.... its just such a strange viewpoint isn't it!

Im in for my booster and flu jab on friday... must need the batteries updated in my chip!!!

I can't walk past the cutlery drawer without getting bombarded with knives and forks.

[Coco Bryce]

A lack of brain cells and common sense also, so many gullible eejits in the world nowadays who don't realise that all the films they watch are not real, no such thing as zombies.

Very similar to people that believe everything the government and the media tell them.

[CapitalGreen]

Call me naive but I did not expect a government that describes itself as democratic to ride roughshod all over the UN Charter for Human Rights and the Nuremberg Convention.

You’ve read neither of those.

[basehibby]

Death rate from skydiving is approx 1 in 100000
Death rate from the covid vaccine is approx 0.82 per 100000.

Both minimal but if you are concerned about that 0.18 then probably best to pack the parachute away and roll up your sleeve.
Dont know where you get your figures from - I got mine from the uk gov yellow card reporting database - which indicates a 1/65000 chance of death from any one of the 3 jabs given in the uk - making skydiving approx 50% safer.

[Coco Bryce]

Lol.... its just such a strange viewpoint isn't it!

Im in for my booster and flu jab on friday... must need the batteries updated in my chip!!!

It might just be pure coincidence but after getting my vaccines. I now get a fantastic 5G connection :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Call me naive but I did not expect a government that describes itself as democratic to ride roughshod all over the UN Charter for Human Rights and the Nuremberg Convention.

Which part of the Nuremberg Code is being ignored?

https://fullfact.org/health/nuremberg-code-covid/

Ditto the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.


And which Government?

[CapitalGreen]

Very similar to people that believe everything the government and the media tell them.

3 of the most popular and long running non-football threads on this site are:

“Tories are still lying b******s”
“SNP Nonsense”
“BBC bias again?”

Suggesting it isn’t the case for posters here that they believe everything the government and the media tell them.

[Zambernardi1875]

A lot of stuff posted but you want us to do the digging to find out whether it's true or not. Maybe post some links to your sources so we know whether it is legitimate or if it is the same old Facebook claptrap which has been debunked.

What legitimate source says the vaccines are experimental? Operation Warp Speed developed them at, warp speed. Pfizer was granted full approval by the FDA a couple of months ago, from emergency status (not experimental as you like to twist it).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(21)00140-6/fulltext

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2096

WTF has how BA address their passengers got to do vaccines / vaccine passports, other than to confirm my suspicion that everything else you said is also rambling conspiracy theory nonsense?

What is the science behind the Scottish gov having it capped at 10k ? Also starting this passport requirement now half way through the season. Surely surely there would be spikes after the derbies and international games. I mean if it was a serious issue these rules woulda been implemented a lot sooner no?

The people double vaxxed and moaning about others not wanting to get the vaccine have you been going to games and out in public already or with this be you’re first game now the rules are in place. It all seems completely crazy you can go shopping, pubs, food,travel before and after the game hassle free but sitting outside for 90mins you need a passport.

[Northernhibee]

It might just be pure coincidence but after getting my vaccines. I now get a fantastic 5G connection :greengrin

I hope the Bill Gates thing about Microsoft chips isn't true, otherwise the NHS just gave Word to my mother.

[CapitalGreen]

Dont know where you get your figures from - I got mine from the uk gov yellow card reporting database - which indicates a 1/65000 chance of death from any one of the 3 jabs given in the uk - making skydiving approx 50% safer.

You clearly don’t understand the purpose of the yellow card database and how it is maintained.

[Coco Bryce]

I hope the Bill Gates thing about Microsoft chips isn't true, otherwise the NHS just gave Word to my mother.

:thumbsup:

[Sir David Gray]

Dont know where you get your figures from - I got mine from the uk gov yellow card reporting database - which indicates a 1/65000 chance of death from any one of the 3 jabs given in the uk - making skydiving approx 50% safer.

The latest figures released today show that 5 deaths have been registered in Scotland where the underlying cause of death was adverse effects from a Covid-19 vaccine.

There's currently more than 4.2 million people in Scotland who have received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine.

That's 1 death for every 840,000 people who have received at least one dose.

[Moulin Yarns]

I watched it with my own eyes on the bbc. Switched that off after another week or so…

You will need to provide a link to back up your 'false' claims.

Meanwhile...


ideo falsely claims to show bodies of virus victims in China

By ARIJETA LAJKAFebruary 21, 2020

CLAIM: Video shows dead bodies waiting to be picked up in Wuhan, China, due to new coronavirus.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The video shows people sleeping in the streets in Shenzhen, China, a city over 600 miles away from Wuhan.

THE FACTS: A video circulating on social media that shows bodies covered with blankets on a street in China, is falsely identified as people who died from the new coronavirus.

“Wuhan China. Dead Bodies waiting 4 pickup. Coronavirus NO ordinary Virus. Is it intentionally released BIO WEAPON?” a Twitter user posted on Feb. 17.




The video actually shows people in Shenzhen sleeping on a street after the government issued a permit system for entering and exiting the city to prevent the spread of the virus. The Associated Press confirmed the location of the video through satellite imagery, and matched the buildings from the clip with buildings on Hualong Road.

According to local reports, the Shenzhen government introduced the permit system on Feb. 9. The system resulted in people being forced to sleep on the street overnight, according to several posts that featured the video. In a video of the scene shot from a different angle, it is clear the people have duvets and pillows.

The new coronavirus outbreak first emerged in Wuhan, the capital of central China’s Hubei province in December. There are confirmed cases in more than two dozen countries. Mainland China has more than 75,000 confirmed cases and more than 2,200 deaths.
___

[Coco Bryce]

3 of the most popular and long running non-football threads on this site are:

“Tories are still lying b******s”
“SNP Nonsense”
“BBC bias again?”

Suggesting it isn’t the case for posters here that they believe everything the government and the media tell them.

Must be what they read in the Daily Mail, Daily Record & The Sun then.

[RoscoHibby]

I’ve not got the time at the minute to trawl the net and post all the links for you mate.

But since this about vaccine passport here is the main elephant in the room….

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3e_QY_obA

So do tell Mr Condescending (if you think the shoe fits you then batter in) what is the ****ing point in this?? Apart from to coerce people to ‘take the shot’… Yeah let’s split society for that…

Im not an anti-vaxxer (had all other jags, inc. flu as have my kids) or a conspiracy theorist (you know that term was coined in the 60’s for soldiers coming home from Vietnam and speaking of the atrocities they’d seen..) I just don’t want an experimental jag, which no one knows the long term effects of, for something that has the same chance of killing me as me choking on food…(99.967 survival rate) and would not stop me passing it (I’m not a prick, if it actually stopped spread I’d take it) If that makes me the crazy one then so be it 🤷*♂️

[Coco Bryce]

You will need to provide a link to back up your 'false' claims.

Meanwhile...

That is also just a 'claim'

How can you prove it's not a false one?

[J-C]

Very similar to people that believe everything the government and the media tell them.

But we're in the vast majority, unlike all the crackpot theorists.

[RoscoHibby]

You will need to provide a link to back up your 'false' claims.

Meanwhile...

Ok then, that was one comment from me re. a piece of propoganda. What about all the other points I’ve made? You’ve concentrated purely on a footnote there. If I watched something on the telly, how can I post a link to that 18 months later? So it’s not true cos I can’t post a link…

[bringbackbenny]

I'm out of reading this originally well intentioned thread, fed up of my social media being polluted by this utter fake news sourced anti vax crap without it starting eat into hibs news.

Everyone of the conspiracy theories can be debunked from reputable sources given enough time, good luck to those trying to debate using science and facts but afraid you might be talking to a brick wall.

[Allant1981]

It might just be pure coincidence but after getting my vaccines. I now get a fantastic 5G connection :greengrin

I struggle to get 3g, how long after your vaccination did it take!

[CapitalGreen]

I’ve not got the time at the minute to trawl the net and post all the links for you mate.

But since this about vaccine passport here is the main elephant in the room….

[URL]

Im not an anti-vaxxer (had all other jags, inc. flu as have my kids) or a conspiracy theorist (you know that term was coined in the 60’s for soldiers coming home from Vietnam and speaking of the atrocities they’d seen..)

For someone who claims to do their own research and not be brainwashed you certainly seem to believe a lot of the things you read without question.

The term “conspiracy theory” wasn’t coined post-Vietnam, etymologists have records of the terms use from over 100 years before the Vietnam war ended.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm out of reading this originally well intentioned thread, fed up of my social media being polluted by this utter fake news sourced anti vax crap without it starting eat into hibs news.

Everyone of the conspiracy theories can be debunked from reputable sources given enough time, good luck to those trying to debate using science and facts but afraid you might be talking to a brick wall.

This whole thread has wandered off topic and belongs in the Holy Ground, or preferably the bin!

[Moulin Yarns]

For someone who claims to do their own research and not be brainwashed you certainly seem to believe a lot of the things you read without question.

The term “conspiracy theory” wasn’t coined post-Vietnam, etymologists have records of the terms use from over 100 years before the Vietnam war ended.

1870 it was used in printed form.

[RoscoHibby]

For someone who claims to do their own research and not be brainwashed you certainly seem to believe a lot of the things you read without question.

The term “conspiracy theory” wasn’t coined post-Vietnam, etymologists have records of the terms use from over 100 years before the Vietnam war ended.

🤣🤣🤣 whatever, I read that one recently, if I’ve been misinformed, so be it, stuff like that im not gonna go to multiple sources for, my bad, I bow to your superior quick Googling… What about the main elephant in the room though??

[RoscoHibby]

This is actually what the MSM have been doing in spades, can’t argue with the facts but instead go to great lengths to put some sort of dis-credit on the person telling them…

[Peevemor]

🤣🤣🤣 whatever, I read that one recently, if I’ve been misinformed, so be it, stuff like that im not gonna go to multiple sources for, my bad, I bow to your superior quick Googling… What about the main elephant in the room though??

Has it been vaccinated?

[CapitalGreen]

This is actually what the MSM have been doing in spades, can’t argue with the facts but instead go to great lengths to put some sort of dis-credit on the person telling them…

Don’t start acting like a victim mate, it’s cringe.

[RoscoHibby]

Has it been vaccinated?

😂😂😂 actually a good question, as the animal reservoirs we have of this virus make the current strategy look even more stupid…it’s no going anywhere, it’s just going to have to live with the 200 other respiratory viruses we have floating aboot..

[RoscoHibby]

Don’t start acting like a victim mate, it’s cringe.

Victim nothing mate, just pointing out it’s a tactic the media have used, and here you are keeping it going…ignoring the real crux of the issue..

[Baader]

or a conspiracy theorist (you know that term was coined in the 60’s for soldiers coming home from Vietnam

Sorry that's just not true. Karl Popper popularised the term in his writings from 1952 but it predates that by quite a bit. Mightve been used in relation to returning GIs but it was certainly wasn't coined from that.

[RoscoHibby]

Sorry that's just not true. Karl Popper popularised the term in his writings from 1952 but it predates that by quite a bit. Mightve been used in relation to returning GIs but it was certainly wasn't coined from that.

I stand corrected sir, not really the point here though….and you’ve kinda hinted at my point, an establishment used word to belittle those going against their narrative..

[Kato]

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] whatever, I read that one recently, if I’ve been misinformed, so be it, stuff like that im not gonna go to multiple sources for, my bad, I bow to your superior quick Googling… What about the main elephant in the room though??It's jabbed and can make trunk calls through its 5g implants.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

It's jabbed and can make trunk calls through its 5g implants.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Oh dear :greengrin

[RoscoHibby]

It's jabbed and can make trunk calls through its 5g implants.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Tusk, tusk…here come the puns…

[Moulin Yarns]

It's jabbed and can make trunk calls through its 5g implants.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

🤣🤣🤣🤣📱

[J-C]

Victim nothing mate, just pointing out it’s a tactic the media have used, and here you are keeping it going…ignoring the real crux of the issue..

You state something known to be false info and its quickly shot down, if the media are doing this it's to stop misinformation like the nonsense spouted on here and elsewhere.

[SRHibs]

This is actually what the MSM have been doing in spades, can’t argue with the facts but instead go to great lengths to put some sort of dis-credit on the person telling them…

You have already made multiple false claims, which have been addressed, then you've moved on to the next thing. You're discrediting yourself.

I see you've also alluded to the false/under reporting of COVID deaths. Something, again, which has been fact-checked, and debunked. But then again, maybe if we "do our own research" we will find some 'evidence' to the contrary.

[RoscoHibby]

You state something known to be false info and its quickly shot down, if the media are doing this it's to stop misinformation like the nonsense spouted on here and elsewhere.

No they’re trying to discredit people presenting them with facts, that go against their own narrative…and get bogged down in other stuff ignoring the point in hand (e.g the origin of where the term conspiracy theorist came from, not a huge issue) …just like what’s happened on our own hibs.net….

Still waiting on someone replying re. the Fauci FACTS, that the great dishonourable Dr himself had to admit…nae takers? Go on, have a look, only a minute or so video..

[RoscoHibby]

You have already made multiple false claims, which have been addressed, then you've moved on to the next thing. You're discrediting yourself.

I see you've also alluded to the false/under reporting of COVID deaths. Something, again, which has been fact-checked, and debunked. But then again, maybe if we "do our own research" we will find some 'evidence' to the contrary.

No one has addressed my ‘claims’ at all, one was a propaganda video and the other the origins of a word..(hard to prove either, hardly science) not even my points really.

The problem is, I’ve seen these ‘fact checkers’ and ‘misinformation’ tags put on the ONS’ and the WHO’s own data….who’s to say who’s is right or not? Some bot algorithm searching for keywords? This is a huge issue itself.

Anyway, could debate til the cows come home. Can someone do me a favour and watch Mr Fauci and tell me what the point of a vaccine passport is please.

[RoscoHibby]

🤣🤣🤣 nah too busy wondering what happened to logic, reason, freedom
and bodily autonomy..

Still waiting for a decent reply too opposed to nit-picking minor things…or **** like this when you clearly have evidence slapping you in the face..

Still this elephant remains…why the vaccine passports?

[JimBHibees]

No one has addressed my ‘claims’ at all, one was a propaganda video and the other the origins of a word..(hard to prove either, hardly science) not even my points really.

The problem is, I’ve seen these ‘fact checkers’ and ‘misinformation’ tags put on the ONS’ and the WHO’s own data….who’s to say who’s is right or not? Some bot algorithm searching for keywords? This is a huge issue itself.

Anyway, could debate til the cows come home. Can someone do me a favour and watch Mr Fauci and tell me what the point of a vaccine passport is please.

Interesting BBC article re some of the myths being peddled to school kids.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58783711

[J-C]

No they’re trying to discredit people presenting them with facts, that go against their own narrative…and get bogged down in other stuff ignoring the point in hand (e.g the origin of where the term conspiracy theorist came from, not a huge issue) …just like what’s happened on our own hibs.net….

Still waiting on someone replying re. the Fauci FACTS, that the great dishonourable Dr himself had to admit…nae takers? Go on, have a look, only a minute or so video..

Like many scientists Fauci got a few things wrong re Covid, it was early stages, much has been learnt in that time, clutching at straws here.

[Jay]

🤣🤣🤣 nah too busy wondering what happened to logic, reason, freedom
and bodily autonomy..

Still waiting for a decent reply too opposed to nit-picking minor things…or **** like this when you clearly have evidence slapping you in the face..

Still this elephant remains…why the vaccine passports?


I've been very vocal against the passports but when you start spouting about bodies in the streets and the other stuff you wrote it negates any reasoned debate people want to have with you because we know it's pointless.

[SRHibs]

The problem is, I’ve seen these ‘fact checkers’ and ‘misinformation’ tags put on the ONS’ and the WHO’s own data….who’s to say who’s is right or not? Some bot algorithm searching for keywords? This is a huge issue itself.


This paragraph right here is why it's worthless even engaging in conversation with someone like you. Think I'll stick to being a government bootlicker!

[RoscoHibby]

Like many scientists Fauci got a few things wrong re Covid, it was early stages, much has been learnt in that time, clutching at straws here.

Video was only 2 months ago? And would pain him to admit, you know with him being a shareholder and patent holder at moderna…

[J-C]

Video was only 2 months ago? And would pain him to admit, you know with him being a shareholder and patent holder at moderna…

Because I cant be arsed looking for them, post links for your argument.

[RoscoHibby]

I've been very vocal against the passports but when you start spouting about bodies in the streets and the other stuff you wrote it negates any reasoned debate people want to have with you because we know it's pointless.

Well I’m not really spouting, someone took the time to post something about said video I saw…so Reuters must’ve seen it too? And knew it was going around? It was a little example of
one thing…well if you really care about passports, what’s your take on the revelation that indeed vaxxed carry the same viral load as the unvaxxed…this is a fact. But no one wants to talk about that and just call me names n try to discredit me..

[RoscoHibby]

Because I cant be arsed looking for them, post links for your argument.

Post #396

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3e_QY_obA

[Allant1981]

Well I’m not really spouting, someone took the time to post something about said video I saw…so Reuters must’ve seen it too? And knew it was going around? It was a little example of
one thing…well if you really care about passports, what’s your take on the revelation that indeed vaxxed carry the same viral load as the unvaxxed…this is a fact. But no one wants to talk about that and just call me names n try to discredit me..

You not got some UFOs to be looking for

[JimBHibees]

Well I’m not really spouting, someone took the time to post something about said video I saw…so Reuters must’ve seen it too? And knew it was going around? It was a little example of
one thing…well if you really care about passports, what’s your take on the revelation that indeed vaxxed carry the same viral load as the unvaxxed…this is a fact. But no one wants to talk about that and just call me names n try to discredit me..

BMJ article about viral load.

News
Covid-19: Fully vaccinated people can carry as much delta virus as unvaccinated people, data indicate

BMJ 2021; 374 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n2074 (Published 19 August 2021)
Cite this as: BMJ 2021;374:n2074
Read our latest coverage of the coronavirus pandemic

Shaun Griffin
Author affiliations
Adults who have been fully vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 can carry the same viral load of the delta variant as those who are unvaccinated, a preliminary analysis of UK data suggests.1

The latest results from the UK’s national covid-19 infection survey show that having two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against delta. But, although people who are fully vaccinated have a lower risk of becoming infected, those infected with the delta variant can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people, the data show. The authors said the implications for transmission were not yet clear but suggested that the potential for fully vaccinated individuals to transmit the virus to others would make achieving herd immunity more of a challenge.

Sarah Walker, professor of medical statistics and epidemiology at the University of Oxford and chief investigator of the survey, said, “We don’t yet know how much transmission can happen from people who get covid-19 after being vaccinated—for example, they may have high levels of virus for shorter periods of time.

“But the fact that they can have high levels of virus suggests that people who aren’t yet vaccinated may not be as protected from the delta variant as we hoped. This means it is essential for as many people as possible to get vaccinated—both in the UK and worldwide.”

The analysis, published as a preprint and not yet peer reviewed, found that the Oxford-AstraZeneca and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines both offered good protection against new infections but that performance was less good against delta than with the previously dominant alpha variant.

The researchers analysed 2 580 021 results from swabs taken from 384 543 adults between 1 December 2020 and 16 May 2021, when the alpha variant predominated, and 811 624 results from 358 983 adults between 17 May and 1 August 2021, when delta prevailed. Two doses of either vaccine provided at least the same level of protection as that afforded through natural infection with the virus. For example, when delta prevailed, efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine was 80% (95% confidence interval 77% to 83%) at 14 or more days after two doses, higher than after two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine (67% (62% to 71%)) but not significantly different from the protection afforded by natural immunity in non-vaccinated people who had tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (72% (58% to 82%)).

The effectiveness of the two vaccines did not depend on the time between first and second doses. But people who were vaccinated after they had had covid-19 had more protection from vaccination than those who were vaccinated without a previous natural infection. For example, 14 days after a second AstraZeneca dose, on average the rates of all new covid-19 infections had dropped by 88% among those with prior infection, which compared with 68% in those without prior infection. The percentages were 93% and 85%, respectively, for the Pfizer vaccine.

Speaking at a Science Media Centre briefing, Koen Pouwels, of Oxford University’s Nuffield Department of Population Health and the report’s lead author, emphasised the protective effect of vaccination in people with a high SARS-CoV-2 viral burden. He said that vaccine protection was 90% higher than in unvaccinated people one month after a second Pfizer vaccine, declining to 85% after two months and 78% after three months. For the AstraZeneca vaccine the equivalent protection was 67%, 65%, and 61%, respectively.

“Even with these slight declines in protection against all infections and infections with high viral burden, it’s important to note that overall effectiveness is still very high, because we were starting at such a high level of protection,” Pouwels said.

The study also showed that viral burden was lower immediately after two Pfizer doses but that it increased faster with time than after the AstraZeneca vaccine, leading to similar levels of viral burden around three months after second doses of both vaccines.

Commenting on the findings, the University of East Anglia’s Paul Hunter noted, “There is now quite a lot of evidence that all vaccines are much better at reducing the risk of severe disease than they are at reducing the risk from infection. We now know that vaccination will not stop infection and transmission, reduce the risk. [B]The main value of immunisation is in reducing the risk of severe disease and death.”

[The Harp Awakes]

Well I’m not really spouting, someone took the time to post something about said video I saw…so Reuters must’ve seen it too? And knew it was going around? It was a little example of
one thing…well if you really care about passports, what’s your take on the revelation that indeed vaxxed carry the same viral load as the unvaxxed…this is a fact. But no one wants to talk about that and just call me names n try to discredit me..

The reason no-one wants to talk about it, is that it's irrelevant whether the vaxed and unvaxed carry the same viral load or not. The reason being that the vaccinated are less likely to become infected - see excerpt from the report I think you are referring to below:

'The latest results from the UK’s national covid-19 infection survey show that having two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against delta. But, although people who are fully vaccinated have a lower risk of becoming infected, those infected with the delta variant can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people, the data show'

So being fully vaccinated and requiring vaccination passports reduces the number of infected people in a mass venue, thereby protecting others.

[Jay]

Well I’m not really spouting, someone took the time to post something about said video I saw…so Reuters must’ve seen it too? And knew it was going around? It was a little example of
one thing…well if you really care about passports, what’s your take on the revelation that indeed vaxxed carry the same viral load as the unvaxxed…this is a fact. But no one wants to talk about that and just call me names n try to discredit me..

If you take a breath and read my post I'm against the passports in general. I am double vaxed and happily so but against trying to force people to have a vaccination they don't want an effectively punishing them for it when there's an option of a negative test for them instead .

Your original arguments were all about being anti vax which I won't discuss with you as your arguments are so left field I know I'll never be able to have a reasonable debate

[Moulin Yarns]

Post #396

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3e_QY_obA

30seconds!! try the full 3 minutes 40 seconds

[Moulin Yarns]

The reason no-one wants to talk about it, is that it's irrelevant whether the vaxed and unvaxed carry the same viral load or not. The reason being that the vaccinated are less likely to become infected - see excerpt from the report I think you are referring to below:

'The latest results from the UK’s national covid-19 infection survey show that having two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against delta. But, although people who are fully vaccinated have a lower risk of becoming infected, those infected with the delta variant can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people, the data show'

So being fully vaccinated and requiring vaccination passports reduces the number of infected people in a mass venue, thereby protecting others.

:thumbsup:

[tamig]

Whilst I would never wish to be insensitive to anyone's loss and it clearly must be distressing to have lost several people who you know over the course of the last 10 months, I'm not so sure the vaccine will be the cause.

According to Public Health Scotland until mid-August there had been 4 deaths registered in Scotland where the underlying cause of death had been adverse effects from one of the Covid-19 vaccines.

Each of those deaths a complete tragedy of course and whilst I'm sure it gives little comfort to anyone who knew these 4 people, over 4 million people had received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine by then.
What does that make the odds of Lucky White Heather OstKurve knowing the four unfortunate victims?

[RoscoHibby]

The reason no-one wants to talk about it, is that it's irrelevant whether the vaxed and unvaxed carry the same viral load or not. The reason being that the vaccinated are less likely to become infected - see excerpt from the report I think you are referring to below:

The latest results from the UK’s national covid-19 infection survey show that having two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against delta. But, although people who are fully vaccinated have a lower risk of becoming infected, those infected with the delta variant can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people, the data show

So they might not know they have it and are at much more
risk of being ‘super spreaders’…? Is that the takeaway here?

Another point I’ll think I’ll leave you for now with, I’ve got UFOs to look out for…what is the treatment for covid? You’d think with a worldwide pandemic the globes best doctors would come together and work out the best treatment, well at least 19months later they would right? Nah, just take a jab….

If you don’t believe me, have a listen to Dr Peter McCullagh, one of the worlds most published and cited doctors ever…(media trying their best to mess with him too, but can’t argue the credentials..)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM

He must just be a conspiracy theorist as well…

[Moulin Yarns]

Well I’m not really spouting, someone took the time to post something about said video I saw…so Reuters must’ve seen it too? And knew it was going around? It was a little example of
one thing…well if you really care about passports, what’s your take on the revelation that indeed vaxxed carry the same viral load as the unvaxxed…this is a fact. But no one wants to talk about that and just call me names n try to discredit me..

You are doing a good enough job on your own, but, if you still can't prove the validity of the video you claim to have seen of bodies piled up in the streets of China what do you expect.

The Reuters article that I gave a link to debunked a photograph (not the video) circulating if bodies lying in the streets, it turned out to have been an art event in Germany from 2014, and even creditted the photographer. THAT IS A FACT!

The video you claim to show dead people was also debunked as it was of people sleeping in the streets in Shenzen

The Associated Press confirmed the location of the video through satellite imagery, and matched the buildings from the clip with buildings on Hualong Road. In a video of the scene shot from a different angle, it is clear the people have duvets and pillows. FACT.

On vax v unvax point, Unvaccinated are more likely to become infected and spread it than those who are vaxed. What Fauci said is, of those vaxed who have become infected, they carry a similar viral load in the nasal passages. What he DIDN'T say was that you have the same chance of being infected regardless of your covid vaccination status which is a lot more important and relevant to allowing unvaccinated people to mix with vaccinated people.

[marinello59]

This ceased being a football related thread several pages ago. We will be closing it soon if it stays this way.

[Moulin Yarns]

Another point I’ll think I’ll leave you for now with, I’ve got UFOs to look out for…what is the treatment for covid? You’d think with a worldwide pandemic the globes best doctors would come together and work out the best treatment, well at least 19months later they would right? Nah, just take a jab….

…

A quick bit of research....

https://mobile.hospimedica.com/?option=com_mobile_article&Itemid=294790105

You want treatments rushed through without clinical trials but seem reluctant to believe that the vaccines are safe, despit them having been in development for a long time (as a vaccina against SARS)

and

Mystery solved...

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/potential-ufo-sighting-in-scotland-25086889

(https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/potential-ufo-sighting-in-scotland-25086889)

Anyways, back on topic, We have known the requirements for a couple of weeks and that it will become a legal requirement from the 18th, download your covid status if you can, or get a paper copy if you can't. Negative lateral flow tests are not accepted, there is no need to argue the point, the Scottish Government has made it clear they are not an alternative.

Hopefully everyone going on Saturday has no problems getting in.

[green day]

If you don’t believe me, have a listen to Dr Peter McCullagh, one of the worlds most published and cited doctors ever…(media trying their best to mess with him too, but can’t argue the credentials..)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM

He must just be a conspiracy theorist as well…

Apples and pears mate - Peter McCullagh is certainly a distinguished and respected statistician.

However, Peter McCullough, the guy in that video, is an American doctor who was removed from his last position due to his Covid conspiracy theories, including advocating administering hydroxychloroquine (the drug Trump took) which has not so much been widely debunked but anyone discussing it is frankly a laughing stock including him.

Sometimes when it looks silly, it really is just silly :aok:

[J-C]

So they might not know they have it and are at much more
risk of being ‘super spreaders’…? Is that the takeaway here?

Another point I’ll think I’ll leave you for now with, I’ve got UFOs to look out for…what is the treatment for covid? You’d think with a worldwide pandemic the globes best doctors would come together and work out the best treatment, well at least 19months later they would right? Nah, just take a jab….

If you don’t believe me, have a listen to Dr Peter McCullagh, one of the worlds most published and cited doctors ever…(media trying their best to mess with him too, but can’t argue the credentials..)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM

He must just be a conspiracy theorist as well…

Hydroxycholorquin was shown to be a nonsense and he was accused of spreading misinformation, another American quack spouting pish. The way the Yanks dealt with Covid I wouldn't be using them as a mile stone, one of the worst death rates in the western world and where nearly all the anti vax theories come from.

[tamig]

I’ve not got the time at the minute to trawl the net and post all the links for you mate.

But since this about vaccine passport here is the main elephant in the room….

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3e_QY_obA

So do tell Mr Condescending (if you think the shoe fits you then batter in) what is the ****ing point in this?? Apart from to coerce people to ‘take the shot’… Yeah let’s split society for that…

Im not an anti-vaxxer (had all other jags, inc. flu as have my kids) or a conspiracy theorist (you know that term was coined in the 60’s for soldiers coming home from Vietnam and speaking of the atrocities they’d seen..) I just don’t want an experimental jag, which no one knows the long term effects of, for something that has the same chance of killing me as me choking on food…(99.967 survival rate) and would not stop me passing it (I’m not a prick, if it actually stopped spread I’d take it) If that makes me the crazy one then so be it 🤷*♂️

There’s actually a lot of first hand examples around to suggest that’s exactly what the vaccines do. They help to reduce the transmission. Many examples of couples where only one partner has tested positive and it hasn’t been passed on. And both partners double vaccinated of course. What’s the right emoji for that?

[bingo70]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’ve been having a nightmare getting my vaccine passport.

Downloaded the NHS app, photographed and sent in my ID, tried both my passport and driving licence on separate occasions now. Each time it’s come up saying I’m not recognised. Noticed with my latest attempt it was asking for a post code from England, Wales or the Isle of Man. Does this mean I’ve been an idiot and downloaded the wrong app?

Is it an NHS Scotland app I should be looking for? Is anybody able to provide a link to download the correct one?

Thanks.

[BlackSheep]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’ve been having a nightmare getting my vaccine passport.

Downloaded the NHS app, photographed and sent in my ID, tried both my passport and driving licence on separate occasions now. Each time it’s come up saying I’m not recognised. Noticed with my latest attempt it was asking for a post code from England, Wales or the Isle of Man. Does this mean I’ve been an idiot and downloaded the wrong app?

Is it an NHS Scotland app I should be looking for? Is anybody able to provide a link to download the correct one?

Thanks.

NHS Scotland Covid Status app (https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-status)

Here you go.

[Sir David Gray]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’ve been having a nightmare getting my vaccine passport.

Downloaded the NHS app, photographed and sent in my ID, tried both my passport and driving licence on separate occasions now. Each time it’s come up saying I’m not recognised. Noticed with my latest attempt it was asking for a post code from England, Wales or the Isle of Man. Does this mean I’ve been an idiot and downloaded the wrong app?

Is it an NHS Scotland app I should be looking for? Is anybody able to provide a link to download the correct one?

Thanks.

Here's the link.

https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-status

[Green Badger]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’ve been having a nightmare getting my vaccine passport.

Downloaded the NHS app, photographed and sent in my ID, tried both my passport and driving licence on separate occasions now. Each time it’s come up saying I’m not recognised. Noticed with my latest attempt it was asking for a post code from England, Wales or the Isle of Man. Does this mean I’ve been an idiot and downloaded the wrong app?

Is it an NHS Scotland app I should be looking for? Is anybody able to provide a link to download the correct one?

Thanks.

Yes, there is a NHS Scotland one - it is here NHS Scotland COVID Status | NHS inform (https://www.nhsinform.scot/nhs-scotland-covid-status)

[Moulin Yarns]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’ve been having a nightmare getting my vaccine passport.

Downloaded the NHS app, photographed and sent in my ID, tried both my passport and driving licence on separate occasions now. Each time it’s come up saying I’m not recognised. Noticed with my latest attempt it was asking for a post code from England, Wales or the Isle of Man. Does this mean I’ve been an idiot and downloaded the wrong app?

Is it an NHS Scotland app I should be looking for? Is anybody able to provide a link to download the correct one?

Thanks.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/supporter-information-covid-passports


Proving Your Vaccination Status
We would accept both digital and paper copies of your vaccination status, but would advise supporters to use a paper copy if possible due to the reported issues with the NHS Scotland Covid Status App. We also believe this will be the quickest way for you to gain entry to Easter Road.
Click here (https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-19-vaccine/after-your-vaccine/get-a-record-of-your-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-status) to gain access to your vaccination certificate.
Information on how to download and use the Covid status app can be accessed by clicking here. (https://www.nhsinform.scot/nhs-Scotland-covid-status)
Further information on the COVID certificate scheme can be accessed here. (https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-certification-scheme-information-for-customers/)
Supporters attending from the rest of the UK and the broader Common Travel Area (including Republic of Ireland) will be able to use their existing Covid Status apps with QR Codes or paper-based certificates. Visitors from outside the UK can use proof of vaccination from the country they were vaccinated in.

[hibbysam]

A quick bit of research....

https://mobile.hospimedica.com/?option=com_mobile_article&Itemid=294790105

You want treatments rushed through without clinical trials but seem reluctant to believe that the vaccines are safe, despit them having been in development for a long time (as a vaccina against SARS)

and

Mystery solved...

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/potential-ufo-sighting-in-scotland-25086889

(https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/potential-ufo-sighting-in-scotland-25086889)

Anyways, back on topic, We have known the requirements for a couple of weeks and that it will become a legal requirement from the 18th, download your covid status if you can, or get a paper copy if you can't. Negative lateral flow tests are not accepted, there is no need to argue the point, the Scottish Government has made it clear they are not an alternative.

Hopefully everyone going on Saturday has no problems getting in.

Nobody will have an issue getting in as Hibs have said they aren’t stopping anyone getting in.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nobody will have an issue getting in as Hibs have said they aren’t stopping anyone getting in.

I know, I never said they would. :rolleyes:


Hopefully everyone going on Saturday has no problems getting in. was referring to the usual turnstile issues. :greengrin

For anyone who is STILL unsure...

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/supporter-information-covid-passports

[basehibby]

This whole thread has wandered off topic and belongs in the Holy Ground, or preferably the bin!
Aye keep her head where the sun dont shine. Everything is good and everyone is nice. Better? Now back to the reality we live in which (tragically) does include social credit... erm HEALTH Passports.

[WhileTheChief..]

Thread just proves that some folk really are just thick as mince.

Funny thing is, they don't mind announcing it to the world.

I suppose that's a sign of their stupidity in itself.

[hibby rae]

I’ve not got the time at the minute to trawl the net and post all the links for you mate.

But since this about vaccine passport here is the main elephant in the room….

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3e_QY_obA

So do tell Mr Condescending (if you think the shoe fits you then batter in) what is the ****ing point in this?? Apart from to coerce people to ‘take the shot’… Yeah let’s split society for that…

Im not an anti-vaxxer (had all other jags, inc. flu as have my kids) or a conspiracy theorist (you know that term was coined in the 60’s for soldiers coming home from Vietnam and speaking of the atrocities they’d seen..) I just don’t want an experimental jag, which no one knows the long term effects of, for something that has the same chance of killing me as me choking on food…(99.967 survival rate) and would not stop me passing it (I’m not a prick, if it actually stopped spread I’d take it) If that makes me the crazy one then so be it 🤷*♂️

Just did a quick check on wikipedia, and the referenced source for the origin of the term suggests earliest usage was 1909 but it appeared in print in 1870.

[hibby rae]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’ve been having a nightmare getting my vaccine passport.

Downloaded the NHS app, photographed and sent in my ID, tried both my passport and driving licence on separate occasions now. Each time it’s come up saying I’m not recognised. Noticed with my latest attempt it was asking for a post code from England, Wales or the Isle of Man. Does this mean I’ve been an idiot and downloaded the wrong app?

Is it an NHS Scotland app I should be looking for? Is anybody able to provide a link to download the correct one?

Thanks.

I had similar issues with the NHS Scotland app, four attempts and no joy, couldn't verify me. In the end I downloaded a pdf of my certificate to my phone from the website.

[basehibby]

I've been very vocal against the passports but when you start spouting about bodies in the streets and the other stuff you wrote it negates any reasoned debate people want to have with you because we know it's pointless.

I certainly recall seeing images peddled by the MSM of "bodies in the streets" and guys going about in Hazmat suits at the start of all this. It happened - so if you're going to have a go then why not tear a strip off the sensationalist scaremongers who published these pictures rather than people that merely remember seeing the headlines. They are not even that hard to find - This link which took me about 30 secs to source references the Guardian running exactly one of these images ....

https://anti-empire.com/whatever-happened-to-dead-people-in-the-streets-that-images-from-wuhan-promised/
(https://anti-empire.com/whatever-happened-to-dead-people-in-the-streets-that-images-from-wuhan-promised/)
NB - glad to hear you have spoken up against the passports - far too much complacency about it which is EXACTLY why it's come about.

[WhileTheChief..]

Quoting anti-empire as a source :faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

I certainly recall seeing images peddled by the MSM of "bodies in the streets" and guys going about in Hazmat suits at the start of all this. It happened - so if you're going to have a go then why not tear a strip off the sensationalist scaremongers who published these pictures rather than people that merely remember seeing the headlines. They are not even that hard to find - This link which took me about 30 secs to source references the Guardian running exactly one of these images ....

https://anti-empire.com/whatever-happened-to-dead-people-in-the-streets-that-images-from-wuhan-promised/
(https://anti-empire.com/whatever-happened-to-dead-people-in-the-streets-that-images-from-wuhan-promised/)
NB - glad to hear you have spoken up against the passports - far too much complacency about it which is EXACTLY why it's come about.

https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-8509320385

[basehibby]

Quoting anti-empire as a source :faf:

That's not the point - the page which anyone can find shows a screenshot from the Guardian displaying exactly the kind of fearmongering which was standard fare in Jan 2020.

Your patronising tone and deliberate ignorance does you no favours - you just come across as a blinkered moron.

[Jay]

I certainly recall seeing images peddled by the MSM of "bodies in the streets" and guys going about in Hazmat suits at the start of all this. It happened - so if you're going to have a go then why not tear a strip off the sensationalist scaremongers who published these pictures rather than people that merely remember seeing the headlines. They are not even that hard to find - This link which took me about 30 secs to source references the Guardian running exactly one of these images ....

https://anti-empire.com/whatever-happened-to-dead-people-in-the-streets-that-images-from-wuhan-promised/
(https://anti-empire.com/whatever-happened-to-dead-people-in-the-streets-that-images-from-wuhan-promised/)
NB - glad to hear you have spoken up against the passports - far too much complacency about it which is EXACTLY why it's come about.

I'm certainly not having a go nor tearing strips off anybody. Again read my posts. I understand people choosing not to have it if they have looked into it properly and decided its not for them . I'd like to try and persuade them to have it because I genuinely believe it saves lives but ultimately its their choice. But making that choice brings responsibility , you must continue to distance, wear masks if possible and get tested regularly.

Way back at the beginning doesn't really count for now, we know far more about the virus and treatments. It's a different battle now than it was 18 months ago and that's mostly down to the vaccine. But surely if you are remembering then then the images coming from Italy with people with hoods on trying to breathe and stories of running out of oxygen would make sure you'd be first in the queue.

[basehibby]

https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-8509320385

And your point is caller ???.....

[Moulin Yarns]

And your point is caller ???.....

I would think that my point is pretty obvious, but as you seem to need it spelt out for you, have you heard of the phrase "fake news"?

[Moulin Yarns]

Thank goodness the thread went quiet as we all settled down in front of the telly. 😁

[wookie70]

The reason no-one wants to talk about it, is that it's irrelevant whether the vaxed and unvaxed carry the same viral load or not. The reason being that the vaccinated are less likely to become infected - see excerpt from the report I think you are referring to below:

'The latest results from the UK’s national covid-19 infection survey show that having two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against delta. But, although people who are fully vaccinated have a lower risk of becoming infected, those infected with the delta variant can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people, the data show'

So being fully vaccinated and requiring vaccination passports reduces the number of infected people in a mass venue, thereby protecting others.

This was the sentence that caught my eye most and getting back to the Passports and football one of the things I'd like to see confirmed. "Two doses of either vaccine provided at least the same level of protection as that afforded through natural infection with the virus."

I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of death or serious illness between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has came through the virus with little or no ill-effects and catches it again. That will be some of the young people about to be denied access to ER very shortly. Going by my sons Cohort the vast majority have had the virus and none had anything worse than a mild flu thankfully. Is it safer to have had the virus or the vaccine if you are a youngster and catch covid again. Not easy to get those stats from what I can see.

If they are around the same threat to others as those vaccinated in terms of passing the virus then it is all about the threat to themselves. That would apply if they had a negative test too. I get that there is a threat to overloading the NHS too but I would argue having 50K people in the same place is a bigger threat in the first place and if overloading the NHS is the only issue then we better all stop smoking, drinking alcohol, taking drugs and eating to excess too, dangerous sports should be out too.

Looking at the numbers of 18-29 year olds being vaccinated it is now a good bit lower per week than it was pre announcement. It seems to have slowed the pace of vaccination in that cohort but there will be other factors of course. There needs to be far more work done to make youngsters take the vaccine. Perhaps the arguments for doing so just aren't compelling enough for that group and particularly those who have had Covid already. I can't se a figure for 18-29 year olds who have already came through covid but if it is a substantial number and particularly if they are mostly in the non vaccinated category it may be a while before decent numbers get vaccinated, around 200K still to get first dose and only 3163 took the first does last week

[Peevemor]

This was the sentence that caught my eye most and getting back to the Passports and football one of the things I'd like to see confirmed. "Two doses of either vaccine provided at least the same level of protection as that afforded through natural infection with the virus."

I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of death or serious illness between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has came through the virus with little or no ill-effects and catches it again. That will be some of the young people about to be denied access to ER very shortly. Going by my sons Cohort the vast majority have had the virus and none had anything worse than a mild flu thankfully. Is it safer to have had the virus or the vaccine if you are a youngster and catch covid again. Not easy to get those stats from what I can see.

If they are around the same threat to others as those vaccinated in terms of passing the virus then it is all about the threat to themselves. That would apply if they had a negative test too. I get that there is a threat to overloading the NHS too but I would argue having 50K people in the same place is a bigger threat in the first place and if overloading the NHS is the only issue then we better all stop smoking, drinking alcohol, taking drugs and eating to excess too, dangerous sports should be out too.

Looking at the numbers of 18-29 year olds being vaccinated it is now a good bit lower per week than it was pre announcement. It seems to have slowed the pace of vaccination in that cohort but there will be other factors of course. There needs to be far more work done to make youngsters take the vaccine. Perhaps the arguments for doing so just aren't compelling enough for that group and particularly those who have had Covid already. I can't se a figure for 18-29 year olds who have already came through covid but if it is a substantial number and particularly if they are mostly in the non vaccinated category it may be a while before decent numbers get vaccinated, around 200K still to get first dose and only 3163 took the first does last week

The idea is to stop the spread of the virus. We get that you're against the whole vacccine certificate thing but face facts.

France has been far stricter with vaccine passports than anything that's being imposed in Scotland/UK.

Brittany has a population of 4.8m people - not that dissimilar to Scotland. Current infection rates are 28.4 new case per 100k of population per week, ie. approx. 200 new cases per day for the whole of Brittany. The rate in Scotland is approaching 10 times that! Even in the densely populated Paris area, the infection rates is "only" 63.2 cases per week per 100k of population.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/carte-et-donnees

You can argue and split hairs all you want, but vaccination and Covid passports work.

[Zambernardi1875]

The idea is to stop the spread of the virus. We get that you're against the whole vacccine certificate thing but face facts.

France has been far stricter with vaccine passports than anything that's being imposed in Scotland/UK.

Brittany has a population of 4.8m people - not that dissimilar to Scotland. Current infection rates are 28.4 new case per 100k of population per week, ie. approx. 200 new cases per day for the whole of Brittany. The rate in Scotland is approaching 10 times that! Even in the densely populated Paris area, the infection rates is "only" 63.2 cases per week per 100k of population.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/carte-et-donnees

You can argue and split hairs all you want, but vaccination and Covid passports work.

How many people in Brittany got tested last week? Also what’s the number of positive Covid cases with people who have had at least one jag. If the argument is you can still get Covid after being triple jagged and super boosted then how many people in that situation are now getting tested in France and Scotland

[Peevemor]

How many people in Brittany got tested last week?

I've no idea but it's probably qtill quite high given that a negative test gives you a 3 day Covid passport.


Also what’s the number of positive Covid cases with people who have had at least one jag. If the argument is you can still get Covid after being triple jagged and super boosted then how many people in that situation are now getting tested in France and Scotland

I don't have time to look this stuff up, and to be honest I'm liable to look at the wrong statistics.

However, Scotland for a population of 5.5m has currently 918 Covid cases in hospital with 51 in intensive care.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

Brittany with 4.8m population has 278 in hospital with 21 in intensive care.

25197

These bottom line figures, albeit simplistic, don't lie.

[green day]

How many people in Brittany got tested last week? Also what’s the number of positive Covid cases with people who have had at least one jag. If the argument is you can still get Covid after being triple jagged and super boosted then how many people in that situation are now getting tested in France and Scotland


You can look at all the various metrics - tests, test positivity, ICU, hospitalisations, deaths - and UK are still higher comparably than any other Western European country.

What is positive (no pun intended) is that in Scotland the numbers are stabilising and in many case falling.

[Coco Bryce]

I got a confirmation letter of my Vaccines through the post yesterday?

Weird as I never asked for it. Is this what they are doing now :confused:

[greenginger]

E
You can look at all the various metrics - tests, test positivity, ICU, hospitalisations, deaths - and UK are still higher comparably than any other Western European country.

What is positive (no pun intended) is that in Scotland the numbers are stabilising and in many case falling.

All countries and regions seem to have peeks troughs of covid cases , Scotland has past its latest peek and numbers falling whilst other areas are on the rise.

Scotland’s most recent peek wasn’t just the highest in Europe, but the highest in the whole world !

[Allant1981]

I got a confirmation letter of my Vaccines through the post yesterday?

Weird as I never asked for it. Is this what they are doing now :confused:

I think its an automatic thing after getting the digital one, i was the same

[green day]

E

All countries and regions seem to have peeks troughs of covid cases , Scotland has past its latest peek and numbers falling whilst other areas are on the rise.

Scotland’s most recent peek wasn’t just the highest in Europe, but the highest in the whole world !

Whaes like us :greengrin

[basehibby]

This was the sentence that caught my eye most and getting back to the Passports and football one of the things I'd like to see confirmed. "Two doses of either vaccine provided at least the same level of protection as that afforded through natural infection with the virus."

I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of death or serious illness between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has came through the virus with little or no ill-effects and catches it again. That will be some of the young people about to be denied access to ER very shortly. Going by my sons Cohort the vast majority have had the virus and none had anything worse than a mild flu thankfully. Is it safer to have had the virus or the vaccine if you are a youngster and catch covid again. Not easy to get those stats from what I can see.

If they are around the same threat to others as those vaccinated in terms of passing the virus then it is all about the threat to themselves. That would apply if they had a negative test too. I get that there is a threat to overloading the NHS too but I would argue having 50K people in the same place is a bigger threat in the first place and if overloading the NHS is the only issue then we better all stop smoking, drinking alcohol, taking drugs and eating to excess too, dangerous sports should be out too.

Looking at the numbers of 18-29 year olds being vaccinated it is now a good bit lower per week than it was pre announcement. It seems to have slowed the pace of vaccination in that cohort but there will be other factors of course. There needs to be far more work done to make youngsters take the vaccine. Perhaps the arguments for doing so just aren't compelling enough for that group and particularly those who have had Covid already. I can't se a figure for 18-29 year olds who have already came through covid but if it is a substantial number and particularly if they are mostly in the non vaccinated category it may be a while before decent numbers get vaccinated, around 200K still to get first dose and only 3163 took the first does last week

You raise some interesting points. On the subject of natural vs vax immunity, a study of c 2.5 million people in Israel has shown that natural immunity is somewhere between 7 and 13 times MORE effective than that provided by vaccination. This should come as no surprise as the vaxes are based only on a small proportion of the viral DNA- the spike protein - whereas natural immunity will be stimulated by all parts of the virus - thus making natural immunity far less vulnerable to viral mutations.

I would argue against your statement that we need to make more young people get the Covid vax - the clinical benefit is pretty minimal for these age groups and long term side effects (eg on fertility, tendency to cancer and other diseases) are simply not known.

I would therefore argue that the risk/benefit analysis does not weigh up. There are some that argue it would benefit wider society but I see that as stretching moral and ethical boundaries beyond breaking point. Ie it is NOT morally or ethically acceptable to sacrifice the health or the lives of random young people or children simply to provide theoretical protection to their elders in my opinion.

This is particularly the case if you consider that treatments now exist which greatly reduce the lethality of COVID and that more are on the way.

[J-C]

I take it the PDF file on my phone I got a couple months ago is the same as the app. It has all details and things to scan.

[BlackSheep]

I take it the PDF file on my phone I got a couple months ago is the same as the app. It has all details and things to scan.

Yes, that correct.

I hope whoever is doing the spot checks had been told to accept all forms of proof ie paper copies, pdf digital and app digital.... theyre all valid so here's hoping they're properly briefed.

[Coco Bryce]

I think its an automatic thing after getting the digital one, i was the same

I don't have the digital one either?

Funnily enough a guy in work just told me he got one as well and he has never applied for one either :confused:

[green day]

I take it the PDF file on my phone I got a couple months ago is the same as the app. It has all details and things to scan.

Yep.

Having the App just means that its more "official" and in time all the country apps will be standard for stuff like international travel.

I still have the pdf on the phone, but as boosters etc will get added to the app I probably wont use the pdf.

[J-C]

Yes, that correct.

I hope whoever is doing the spot checks had been told to accept all forms of proof ie paper copies, pdf digital and app digital.... theyre all valid so here's hoping they're properly briefed.

👍

[Moulin Yarns]

E

All countries and regions seem to have peeks troughs of covid cases , Scotland has past its latest peek and numbers falling whilst other areas are on the rise.

Scotland’s most recent peek wasn’t just the highest in Europe, but the highest in the whole world !

You looking at me? 😉

[bingo70]

NHS Scotland app still unable to verify me, tried scanning my passport this morning and driving license yesterday.

What’s the next steps I need to take?

Who do I contact to try and get a paper copy?

All the app is saying is that it can’t verify me with no what to do next steps.

[green day]

NHS Scotland app still unable to verify me, tried scanning my passport this morning and driving license yesterday.

What’s the next steps I need to take?

Who do I contact to try and get a paper copy?

All the app is saying is that it can’t verify me with no what to do next steps.

Register and get one here -

https://vacs.nhs.scot/csp

[Green Badger]

Yep.

Having the App just means that its more "official" and in time all the country apps will be standard for stuff like international travel.

I still have the pdf on the phone, but as boosters etc will get added to the app I probably wont use the pdf.

I've had my 3rd jab a couple of weeks ago but it has not been added to the app, or the website. Guess they will update it in the future if they think it necessary.

[Mon Dieu4]

NHS Scotland app still unable to verify me, tried scanning my passport this morning and driving license yesterday.

What’s the next steps I need to take?

Who do I contact to try and get a paper copy?

All the app is saying is that it can’t verify me with no what to do next steps.

You will need to log into the NHS Scotland website with the details on your vaccination letter and request a paper copy that way

[Billy Whizz]

NHS Scotland app still unable to verify me, tried scanning my passport this morning and driving license yesterday.

What’s the next steps I need to take?

Who do I contact to try and get a paper copy?

All the app is saying is that it can’t verify me with no what to do next steps.

No idea why, just went on now, photo passport, photo of me, confirmed a few details and Bingo

[Sir David Gray]

I take it the PDF file on my phone I got a couple months ago is the same as the app. It has all details and things to scan.

It's the same in terms of having QR codes and will be accepted to get into large events and nightclubs etc but the app uses photo ID so is more secure in terms of checking it's the correct person.

[BlackSheep]

NHS Scotland app still unable to verify me, tried scanning my passport this morning and driving license yesterday.

What’s the next steps I need to take?

Who do I contact to try and get a paper copy?

All the app is saying is that it can’t verify me with no what to do next steps.

You can still get a PDF copy of your vaccine status from the website posted above too, this is what you will have to do to get proof in time for Saturday, the paper copy takes a few days at least to arrive, unlikely by saturday now.

[Billy Whizz]

You can still get a PDF copy of your vaccine status from the website posted above too, this is what you will have to do to get proof in time for Saturday, the paper copy takes a few days at least to arrive, unlikely by saturday now.

You can download it and print it off though

[CropleyWasGod]

It's the same in terms of having QR codes and will be accepted to get into large events and nightclubs etc but the app uses photo ID so is more secure in terms of checking it's the correct person.

This is the bit I'm not getting.

I could borrow my mate's phone for the night, in the same way I could borrow their paper certificate.

Either way, unless there is accompanying photo ID asked for, there's a hole.

Or have I missed something?

[Billy Whizz]

This is the bit I'm not getting.

I could borrow my mate's phone for the night, in the same way I could borrow their paper certificate.

Either way, unless there is accompanying photo ID asked for, there's a hole.

Or have I missed something?

It takes a photo of you when you set it up

[Sir David Gray]

This is the bit I'm not getting.

I could borrow my mate's phone for the night, in the same way I could borrow their paper certificate.

Either way, unless there is accompanying photo ID asked for, there's a hole.

Or have I missed something?

You first of all need to take a picture of your photo driving licence or your passport when setting up your account and then your phone scans an image of your face and presumably links it up as a match to your ID.

[CropleyWasGod]

It takes a photo of you when you set it up


You first of all need to take a picture of your photo driving licence or your passport when setting up your account and then your phone scans an image of your face and presumably links it up as a match to your ID.

I get all that.

But, if I turn up at a gig with a certificate or an app, how does the venue know that the person named on either is me?

In either case, they don't, unless I also show photo ID.

[JimBHibees]

This is the bit I'm not getting.

I could borrow my mate's phone for the night, in the same way I could borrow their paper certificate.

Either way, unless there is accompanying photo ID asked for, there's a hole.

Or have I missed something?

Photo check to compare the person with the photo ID

[J-C]

It's the same in terms of having QR codes and will be accepted to get into large events and nightclubs etc but the app uses photo ID so is more secure in terms of checking it's the correct person.

I have photo ID on me with my driving license and bus pass, it'll work the same.

[Jay]

This is the bit I'm not getting.

I could borrow my mate's phone for the night, in the same way I could borrow their paper certificate.

Either way, unless there is accompanying photo ID asked for, there's a hole.

Or have I missed something?


Your right you could but I'm not sure many people would part with their phones for the night . We had to provide ID for some gigs a couple of years ago so maybe they will tie it in with that. It is pointless if you can just show a paper copy though as they will be easy to get a hold of

[Sir David Gray]

I get all that.

But, if I turn up at a gig with a certificate or an app, how does the venue know that the person named on either is me?

In either case, they don't, unless I also show photo ID.

Yes that is true, it's not 100% foolproof.

[Sir David Gray]

I have photo ID on me with my driving license and bus pass, it'll work the same.

I doubt if you'll be asked for photo ID so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Your PDF download will be absolutely fine, as will any paper certificates.

[Allant1981]

I don't have the digital one either?

Funnily enough a guy in work just told me he got one as well and he has never applied for one either :confused:

Weird, no idea then im afraid!!

[Jay]

I don't have the digital one either?

Funnily enough a guy in work just told me he got one as well and he has never applied for one either :confused:


I wonder if those who haven't downloaded one are automatically being sent a paper one? There will be people who don't have the means or ability to download one so would make sense as they may struggle to order a paper copy too.

[CropleyWasGod]

Your right you could but I'm not sure many people would part with their phones for the night . We had to provide ID for some gigs a couple of years ago so maybe they will tie it in with that. It is pointless if you can just show a paper copy though as they will be easy to get a hold of

Just spotted a gap in the market :greengrin

[Coco Bryce]

I wonder if those who haven't downloaded one are automatically being sent a paper one? There will be people who don't have the means or ability to download one so would make sense as they may struggle to order a paper copy too.

This is what I thought.

Maybe the app hasn't really taken off how they had hoped. Adding to that the problems people are still having using it.

[basehibby]

The idea is to stop the spread of the virus. We get that you're against the whole vacccine certificate thing but face facts.

France has been far stricter with vaccine passports than anything that's being imposed in Scotland/UK.

Brittany has a population of 4.8m people - not that dissimilar to Scotland. Current infection rates are 28.4 new case per 100k of population per week, ie. approx. 200 new cases per day for the whole of Brittany. The rate in Scotland is approaching 10 times that! Even in the densely populated Paris area, the infection rates is "only" 63.2 cases per week per 100k of population.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/carte-et-donnees

You can argue and split hairs all you want, but vaccination and Covid passports work.

What utter drivel! It will be easy enough to find many places with low rates of infection with no sign of a passport anywhere - just as it will be easy to find places with high rates that use them. What you are doing is apologising for and advocating fascism. You need called out for it. People like you and your nonsense are creating massive problems for future generations.