Under Ron the Club is growing

[Allez Hibs]

Ron is on a mission to take the club to the next level...
https://twitter.com/HibernianFC/status/1441427464580841476?s=20

[SHODAN]

Is he, aye? I'm not coming back until we have a 100% record across all competitions and beat Hearts 50-0.

Seriously though, good news.

[SaulGoodman]

Don’t think you’ll find many Approved electricians, plumbers or “skilled” handymen willing to work for £24k a year though.

[truehibernian]

Don’t think you’ll find many Approved electricians, plumbers or “skilled” handymen willing to work for £24k a year though.

From what I’ve seen and am hearing Saul, the model is very much on brand growth and as much investment in the team as possible. Admittedly - and it’s a concern for some - other areas are not going to be as invested in as per previous levels. He’s very focused on building the global Hibs brand (and Scottish football) which is great. I was a wee bit concerned at hearing recently about not investing as much in the pitch/playing surface. He’s already made changes to stadium staff and infrastructure.

That said, I’m excited that money is going to JR and it looks like Ron is fully focused on the first team and developing talent - I think we’ll see more players from untapped markets in the Americas too. It’s a no nonsense, high enthusiasm approach.

[Edmond Dantes]

That video content role sounds like three or four entirely different jobs merged into one, I can't imagine anyone experienced going for it at the rate they're offering...

[mayo hibee]

Yeah, I have to say I wouldn't be getting out of bed in the morning for the salaries they're offering for any of those roles - and I wouldn't consider myself to be especially highly paid.

In particular, given how in demand tradespeople are at present, you'd wonder how much interest they'll have for the tradespeople roles they're advertising. Maybe they're hoping that supporters will sacrifice a percentage of their potential earnings in return for the opportunity to work for the club.

[wookie70]

If those roles are full time the salaries are dreadful. Looks like it is trying to run the club on the cheap rather than it growing.

[truehibernian]

If those roles are full time the salaries are dreadful. Looks like it is trying to run the club on the cheap rather than it growing.

As I posted, I think the full focus is the first team and really pushing that. That’s where the money lies in football, from sales and transfers. Build the brand, develop and sell players, more for transfers and salaries - money will trickle down to non football roles if the model works. Covid aside, since he took over, you can’t argue the football side of things is working - highest league position, most away wins, finals and semi finals, players with value and interest from down south - the ‘cuts’ are in non football areas so the product on the pitch is better. Ultimately that’s what fans care about, not an electrician salary - exploitative ? Maybe - but sport and football are fickle.

I’m nervous and excited in equal proportions- but his intentions are good and to make a really really good side.

[wookie70]

As I posted, I think the full focus is the first team and really pushing that. That’s where the money lies in football, from sales and transfers. Build the brand, develop and sell players, more for transfers and salaries - money will trickle down to non football roles if the model works. Covid aside, since he took over, you can’t argue the football side of things is working - highest league position, most away wins, finals and semi finals, players with value and interest from down south - the ‘cuts’ are in non football areas so the product on the pitch is better. Ultimately that’s what fans care about, not an electrician salary - exploitative ? Maybe - but sport and football are fickle.

I’m nervous and excited in equal proportions- but his intentions are good and to make a really really good side.

We are also a club that prides itself on the community outlook we have. I'd want everyone within our own Hibernian Community to be remunerated properly for the work they do.

[Peevemor]

We are also a club that prides itself on the community outlook we have. I'd want everyone within our own Hibernian Community to be remunerated properly for the work they do.I think mixing the club's community outlook & the salaries it pays is pushing it a bit - we're not talking about minimum wage here.

If people don't want to apply for the jobs they don't have to. If the club don't get the standard of candidates that it's looking for then they'll have to review the offers.

[marinello59]

I think mixing the club's community outlook & the salaries it pays is pushing it a bit - we're not talking about minimum wage here.

If people don't want to apply for the jobs they don't have to. If the club don't get the standard of candidates that it's looking for then they'll have to review the offers.

:agree:

[Since452]

Seriously confused at those salaries.

[Bishop Hibee]

I think mixing the club's community outlook & the salaries it pays is pushing it a bit - we're not talking about minimum wage here.

If people don't want to apply for the jobs they don't have to. If the club don't get the standard of candidates that it's looking for then they'll have to review the offers.

Absolutely. The negativity on this thread is incredible versus what Ron Gordon actually says. I’m an auld git but I love the positivity Gordon is bringing to the club and the proof of the pudding is in the signings, the improved contracts and the stadium improvements. Long may it continue.

[truehibernian]

Absolutely. The negativity on this thread is incredible versus what Ron Gordon actually says. I’m an auld git but I love the positivity Gordon is bringing to the club and the proof of the pudding is in the signings, the improved contracts and the stadium improvements. Long may it continue.

I’m not negative, love the outlook, just very conscious that you can’t ignore the infrastructure of any business. That’s my only worry about Ron. He’s come from an American focused outlook which is fine - all for growing Hibs and income. But proper investment is also required in non football areas. That’s what moves the whole machine forward.

[Allez Hibs]

I’m not negative, love the outlook, just very conscious that you can’t ignore the infrastructure of any business. That’s my only worry about Ron. He’s come from an American focused outlook which is fine - all for growing Hibs and income. But proper investment is also required in non football areas. That’s what moves the whole machine forward.

That's what he's doing though, investing in non football areas.

[Irish_Steve]

Ron's wanting plumbers, electricians, skilled tradesmen ?? That screams Flats to me, those pesky maroon balloons were right all along!! Muppets

[wookie70]

I think mixing the club's community outlook & the salaries it pays is pushing it a bit - we're not talking about minimum wage here.

If people don't want to apply for the jobs they don't have to. If the club don't get the standard of candidates that it's looking for then they'll have to review the offers.

I don't think it is pushing it. In fact it feels like they are hoping to get Hibees to work on the cheap just for the kudos of working for the club they love. There is leaning on the community and also trying to take advantage. Ron is an American businessman so perhaps it is to do with how they recruit there.

The going rate for a spark looks to be around £30K and that comes with a van etc in most cases. We are offering 20% less.

[truehibernian]

That's what he's doing though, investing in non football areas.

He’s investing in things that grow income (screens, additional advertising etc) - all good 👍

I’m talking about other areas - what I heard about (lack of) investment in the pitch is worrying to be honest. That’s an important outlay for a football club.

[loanheadhibby]

Absolutely. The negativity on this thread is incredible versus what Ron Gordon actually says. I’m an auld git but I love the positivity Gordon is bringing to the club and the proof of the pudding is in the signings, the improved contracts and the stadium improvements. Long may it continue.

Without wishing to appear negative, the poster has a point re salaries being offered for non football activities. A decent spark will easily earn at least double what is on offer. Surely as a club we are wanting to entice the best whether that’s football or non football.

it’s the same with getting fans to volunteer to work at the club. Why not pay a salary for people to do the job? Maybe the people you pay will then buy tickets for the game. How can the club afford big screens but need volunteers to carry out work at the stadium?

[hibbysam]

I’m not negative, love the outlook, just very conscious that you can’t ignore the infrastructure of any business. That’s my only worry about Ron. He’s come from an American focused outlook which is fine - all for growing Hibs and income. But proper investment is also required in non football areas. That’s what moves the whole machine forward.

Can the big screens play up front?

[WhileTheChief..]

A young lad starting out on his own getting £24k is fantastic. Nobody is expecting someone with 30+ years experience to be going for it. They’ll stick with their higher paid jobs.

Not sure why there is any concern at all, seems 100% positive to me.

[hibbysam]

A young lad starting out on his own getting £24k is fantastic. Nobody is expecting someone with 30+ years experience to be going for it. They’ll stick with their higher paid jobs.

Not sure why there is any concern at all, seems 100% positive to me.

Know nothing about it but presume we’ve had contractors etc up until now as I’ve never known us to have our own tradesmen? Nobody knows the hours etc, therefore the salary may well be competitive. If nobody wants them then don’t take them.

[WhileTheChief..]

He’s investing in things that grow income (screens, additional advertising etc) - all good 👍

I’m talking about other areas - what I heard about (lack of) investment in the pitch is worrying to be honest. That’s an important outlay for a football club.

How can there be lack of investment in the pitch?!

Surely you pay for things when they’re needed. If it’s all good there’s nothing more to spend on?

Besides, it looks fantastic. The Hibs’ ladies goalie was saying it’s like a carpet, best she’s ever played on.

[Peevemor]

I don't think it is pushing it. In fact it feels like they are hoping to get Hibees to work on the cheap just for the kudos of working for the club they love. There is leaning on the community and also trying to take advantage. Ron is an American businessman so perhaps it is to do with how they recruit there.

The going rate for a spark looks to be around £30K and that comes with a van etc in most cases. We are offering 20% less.

You're ignoring the points I made. You're hinting at exploitation which is definitely pushing it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Know nothing about it but presume we’ve had contractors etc up until now as I’ve never known us to have our own tradesmen? Nobody knows the hours etc, therefore the salary may well be competitive. If nobody wants them then don’t take them.

Exactly. It’s an in-house position. I can’t imagine a plumber or spark are going to be running around 40 hrs a week rushed off their feet. Be a cushty wee gig and maybe get free tickets as a perk or something!

[loanheadhibby]

A young lad starting out on his own getting £24k is fantastic. Nobody is expecting someone with 30+ years experience to be going for it. They’ll stick with their higher paid jobs.

Not sure why there is any concern at all, seems 100% positive to me.

These are recurring adverts tho. Not 6 months ago the club were looking for Journalists, Maintenance assistants etc. Again a lot of people commented then about the low salaries.

The club would possibly be better and cheaper getting in tow with a Facilities provider and only pay on a consumption basis.

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s like making sausages, I don’t really need to know how they go about their business but everything that’s happened since RG arrived has been positive to me. No reason to doubt him now.

Maybe he’s thought of all options and figured this is the best way to go?

[loanheadhibby]

Know nothing about it but presume we’ve had contractors etc up until now as I’ve never known us to have our own tradesmen? Nobody knows the hours etc, therefore the salary may well be competitive. If nobody wants them then don’t take them.

The salary is not competitive in the market place for an approved 18th edition electrician. Maybe a sparks mate but not a spark worth his salt.

[truehibernian]

How can there be lack of investment in the pitch?!

Surely you pay for things when they’re needed. If it’s all good there’s nothing more to spend on?

Besides, it looks fantastic. The Hibs’ ladies goalie was saying it’s like a carpet, best she’s ever played on.

The proposed investment in the playing surface - from what I’ve been told - is laughable. I’m only passing on what I know - for me, Ron is great, driving the club forward in areas so long neglected. But I just don’t want other areas being forgotten.

He’s no nonsense - by all accounts he’s also got rid of folk who were merely topping up their pension - which is good. as they weren’t good. I still think you can’t ignore certain areas that’s all.

[Ozyhibby]

Exactly. It’s an in-house position. I can’t imagine a plumber or spark are going to be running around 40 hrs a week rushed off their feet. Be a cushty wee gig and maybe get free tickets as a perk or something!

Yip. Maintenance tradesmen usually earn a lot less but it’s attractive for people because it is an easier gig with regular hours, steady PAYE wage as opposed to self employed everywhere else etc. I know a tradesman who works for Heriots school for way less than he could earn elsewhere but he enjoys the job and isn’t exactly rushed of his feet there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[04Sauzee]

The proposed investment in the playing surface - from what I’ve been told - is laughable. I’m only passing on what I know - for me, Ron is great, driving the club forward in areas so long neglected. But I just don’t want other areas being forgotten.

He’s no nonsense - by all accounts he’s also got rid of folk who were merely topping up their pension - which is good. as they weren’t good. I still think you can’t ignore certain areas that’s all.
How much have they invested in the lighting rig that I seen on the grass on Monday when I was down?
Or have we had that a while now?

[Since452]

Know nothing about it but presume we’ve had contractors etc up until now as I’ve never known us to have our own tradesmen? Nobody knows the hours etc, therefore the salary may well be competitive. If nobody wants them then don’t take them.

The hours are on the advert

[easty]

This is as bad as the moaning on the thread about Hibs getting volunteers in.

If you don’t like the salary…dinnae apply for the job. The salary is there. It’s quoted. A lot of jobs don’t even have a salary quoted when you apply nowadays.

Moan moan moan moan moan

[hibbysam]

The hours are on the advert

My bad - never scrolled to the bottom, expected they’d be up beside the salary!

[Pretty Boy]

There are times when a wage on offer is inarguably exploitative. £8.91 per hour, unsociable hours, zero hours contract. People will argue in that instance if you don't like the wage don't apply but a hell of a lot of people applying for a role like that are desperate and have little choice. Companies know that so get away with that kind of pish.

This situation at Hibs is far removed from that. A qualified tradesperson knows what they are worth and they know the score with a maintenance role. If they aren't willing to work for that wage they will keep on scrolling and will find something else, if they are then there is a reason why. I think Hibs will have a type of candidate in mind as well.

[NC1875]

Electricians are currently earning roughly £20 an hour on the St James site to put it into perspective.

But an older tradesman looking for an easy number may well be happy getting less money for an easier role

[Selkirkhibs]

There are times when a wage on offer is inarguably exploitative. £8.91 per hour, unsociable hours, zero hours contract. People will argue in that instance if you don't like the wage don't apply but a hell of a lot of people applying for a role like that are desperate and have little choice. Companies know that so get away with that kind of pish.

This situation at Hibs is far removed from that. A qualified tradesperson knows what they are worth and they know the score with a maintenance role. If they aren't willing to work for that wage they will keep on scrolling and will find something else, if they are then there is a reason why. I think Hibs will have a type of candidate in mind as well.

How much is an unemployed person worth?

How much is a disabled person worth?

How much is a down and out worth?

How much is a mother with three children or more worth?

How much is a refugee worth?

How much is a person worth?

[Pagan Hibernia]

How much is an unemployed person worth?

How much is a disabled person worth?

How much is a down and out worth?

How much is a mother with three children or more worth?

How much is a refugee worth?

How much is a person worth?

What’s your point?

[Eyrie]

How much is an unemployed person worth?

How much is a disabled person worth?

How much is a down and out worth?

How much is a mother with three children or more worth?

How much is a refugee worth?

How much is a person worth?

An employer isn't paying someone to be disabled, a down & out, a mother of three children, a refugee or a person. The employer is paying a person to do a job, and should be paying a fair wage for the value of that job, regardless of whether the person doing it is disabled, a down & out, a mother of three children, a refugee or anyone else.

Some jobs have more "worth" than others - how many care workers' salaries could be covered by the average wage of just one player at Hibs, never mind the wages on offer in the EPL?

[Selkirkhibs]

What’s your point?

Fairly obvious no?

Everyone seems to have a worth according to posters on here.

Merely asking what worth those at the very bottom of society have?

Seems very little indeed unless they have a skill that can be used for personal advantage over others of some sort or other imo.

[Peevemor]

Fairly obvious no?

Everyone seems to have a worth according to posters on here.

Merely asking what worth those at the very bottom of society have?

Seems very little indeed unless they have a skill that can be used for personal advantage over others of some sort or other imo.It's not just posters on here. In the employment market everybody does have their worth. We could debate the rights and wrongs for days, but it doesn't change the fact.

[tamig]

The proposed investment in the playing surface - from what I’ve been told - is laughable. I’m only passing on what I know - for me, Ron is great, driving the club forward in areas so long neglected. But I just don’t want other areas being forgotten.

He’s no nonsense - by all accounts he’s also got rid of folk who were merely topping up their pension - which is good. as they weren’t good. I still think you can’t ignore certain areas that’s all.
I’m sure someone mentioned on another thread we now had grow lamps. I’m not sure if there’s any truth in that. If it is true, surely thats an investment in the pitch. What have you been told?

[Selkirkhibs]

It's not just posters on here. In the employment market everybody does have their worth. We could debate the rights and wrongs for days, but it doesn't change the fact.

Human worth.

Lots get left behind, some get ahead.

Especially those with little or no worth. left behind,

Magic eh?

[Ozyhibby]

I’m sure someone mentioned on another thread we now had grow lamps. I’m not sure if there’s any truth in that. If it is true, surely thats an investment in the pitch. What have you been told?

The pitch looks good this early season so far? What are peoples concerns with the pitch?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[King Cosell]

How can there be lack of investment in the pitch?!

Surely you pay for things when they’re needed. If it’s all good there’s nothing more to spend on?

Besides, it looks fantastic. The Hibs’ ladies goalie was saying it’s like a carpet, best she’s ever played on.

With the Dundee game moved to 14 Dec it means we've got 4 home games in 18 days, if there's a lot of rain we could be in trouble.

[RyeSloan]

Human worth.

Lots get left behind, some get ahead.

Especially those with little or no worth. left behind,

Magic eh?

And this has something to do with Hibs hiring people?

What an odd thread this is.

[.Sean.]

Electricians are currently earning roughly £20 an hour on the St James site to put it into perspective.

But an older tradesman looking for an easy number may well be happy getting less money for an easier role
The phonecall I got through the week regarding St James was £23 an hour then £36 for a Saturday and £46 for a Sunday so that’s the kind of figures the club are competing with at the minute. I genuinely don’t know an electrician who’d work for that salary on offer. As I said maybe an older guy or someone mortgage free or someone with loads in the bank. All the salaries are poor not just the sparky offering.

[hibbysam]

The phonecall I got through the week regarding St James was £23 an hour then £36 for a Saturday and £46 for a Sunday so that’s the kind of figures the club are competing with at the minute. I genuinely don’t know an electrician who’d work for that salary on offer. As I said maybe an older guy or someone mortgage free or someone with loads in the bank. All the salaries are poor not just the sparky offering.

Think the difference though would be the volume of work. With Hibs it would be lots of wee odd jobs and general maintenance whereas at a big site like St James it would be tight deadlines and constant hard graft. That could be way off the mark but would imagine Hibs would be far more laid back when it comes to volume of work.

[mayo hibee]

Even if an electrician or other tradesperson wanted that kind of job security local Councils pay £30k to £32k a year for them on permanent 37 hour a week contracts with far better leave and pension packages that Hibs are offering. The best they're likely to get here is someone starting out who will leave for something better after a short time, but maybe they're OK with that.

[The Harp Awakes]

Classical Hibs.net thread.

A mixture of those defending the club blindly at every opportunity, and others siezing the chance to have a go.

As ever, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. On the positive side, I do agree with the OP that RG is steadily building the club without being reckless. I feel very optimistic for the future. The days of contracting out human activities are now outdated as there is no access to cheap and readily available labour. So, in looking to bring the skills in house I think RG is spot on.

However, the salary levels advertised are completely unrealistic for qualified people at a time where there is a national shortage of labour. For example, I know from experience that cleaners in the Highlands are being paid £20 an hour right now.

Tactically, I can only think we are trying to recruit from a Hibs fan base who have emotional ties to the club. That is risky of course as you won't necessarily get the best person for the job.

So positives and negatives in this announcement for me.

[Allant1981]

I know nhs only pay qualified staff a band 4 which is only up to £25k, plenty people take these jobs and want these jobs so folk with a trade cant all be earming 40k per year

[7Hero]

Business man trying to reduce his overheads.

Shocker...

His club, he can run it his way. If you Don't like the salaries for the permanent employment he is offering then don't apply.

[7Hero]

Sorry I've just read that someone compared the salaries to council salaries, that's a laugh. It's a private business, the same rules do not apply...

[NC1875]

The phonecall I got through the week regarding St James was £23 an hour then £36 for a Saturday and £46 for a Sunday so that’s the kind of figures the club are competing with at the minute. I genuinely don’t know an electrician who’d work for that salary on offer. As I said maybe an older guy or someone mortgage free or someone with loads in the bank. All the salaries are poor not just the sparky offering.

Yup you’re probably right. Was about £20 the last time I checked and they were needing more guys so the rates will have likely went up.

I’ve been trying to employ an electrician for a few months now on a better salary than the one Hibs are offering but they all want crazy money.

The thing is, sites like St James won’t last forever and they’ll all be looking for another job when it’s finished as most are agency workers.

I know Edinburgh College have or used to have a couple of older guys (one a joiner and one a spark) that were the maintenance team. Hibs salary probably comparable with that which will suit someone as it won’t be a hard job.

[HH81]

I'm an unskilled banker. I earn more than the skilled positions on that list.

I just can't see how people could live on them salaries in Edinburgh.

[Jones28]

What I’m confused about is how we are able to justify a full time electricians position? A stadium and a training centre sirely doesn’t have enough work to sustain full time roles like this?

[NC1875]

What I’m confused about is how we are able to justify a full time electricians position? A stadium and a training centre sirely doesn’t have enough work to sustain full time roles like this?

I’ve not even looked but is it maybe a part time position ? That would make the salary more appealing. 🤷🏽*♂️

[Since452]

I’ve not even looked but is it maybe a part time position ? That would make the salary more appealing. 🤷🏽*♂️

37.5 hours per week

[green day]

I know Edinburgh College have or used to have a couple of older guys (one a joiner and one a spark) that were the maintenance team. Hibs salary probably comparable with that which will suit someone as it won’t be a hard job.

Correct - these Hibs jobs are on a par with (for example) guys on salary with the University, Council or Edinburgh leisure etc.

There are people work for those organisations on salaries comparable with those Hibs ones.

Basically, guys who want a steady job / pension without the (sometimes) big stress of self employment etc. Wont suit the guys in their 20s chasing the money, but someone will want it.

One of the best plumbers I have ever met worked for Edinburgh Leisure - big Hibby as well :greengrin

[green day]

Sorry I've just read that someone compared the salaries to council salaries, that's a laugh. It's a private business, the same rules do not apply...

Edinburgh Uni salaries then - private business...............

[blackpoolhibs]

We micro manage every goal we concede. (never do that with goals we score)

Now we are micro managing jobs outwith the team, whats next, who leaves the light on when they leave the bathroom, or who's using more than their fair amount of toilet paper?

[green day]

We micro manage every goal we concede. (never do that with goals we score)

Now we are micro managing jobs outwith the team, whats next, who leaves the light on when they leave the bathroom, or who's using more than their fair amount of toilet paper?

Usually me after my morning cortado tbf - talking of which..................:greengrin

[lucky]

RG is trying to grow the club on and off the park. Most are happy in the direction he’s taking the club but that does not mean that no one can be critical of him. The salaries on offer for qualified trades people look on the low side and most on here believe Hibs will struggle to fill the roles or will be constantly recruiting as people move on. Fans stating this aren’t moaning they are giving an opinion on fans web forum.

[Iain G]

Hibs get volunteers in to help with the seats and criticism that it's slave labour and we should be paying people...

Hibs advertise for a number of paid roles and criticism it's not enough money...

Hibs put a big price on Josh Doig and it's criticism it's too much money...

Glad we don't have fan ownership like our biggliest neighbours across the city 🤣😁

[Peevemor]

Classical Hibs.net thread.

A mixture of those defending the club blindly at every opportunity, and others siezing the chance to have a go.

As ever, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. On the positive side, I do agree with the OP that RG is steadily building the club without being reckless. I feel very optimistic for the future. The days of contracting out human activities are now outdated as there is no access to cheap and readily available labour. So, in looking to bring the skills in house I think RG is spot on.

However, the salary levels advertised are completely unrealistic for qualified people at a time where there is a national shortage of labour. For example, I know from experience that cleaners in the Highlands are being paid £20 an hour right now.

Tactically, I can only think we are trying to recruit from a Hibs fan base who have emotional ties to the club. That is risky of course as you won't necessarily get the best person for the job.

So positives and negatives in this announcement for me.

Disagreeing with those criticising the club doesn't mean "defending the club blindly at every opportunity". This is something that gets trotted out fairly often but it's not the case. In this instance I would disagree with them regardless of who was advertising the jobs.

It's like saying those who disagree with anti-vaccers are pro SG/SNP.

[MWHIBBIES]

Think the difference though would be the volume of work. With Hibs it would be lots of wee odd jobs and general maintenance whereas at a big site like St James it would be tight deadlines and constant hard graft. That could be way off the mark but would imagine Hibs would be far more laid back when it comes to volume of work. No electrician with his 18th, PASMA, Ipaf and testing and inspection is taking a job for 24k. I know apprentices who done a lot of overtime and made 29k in their 3rd years. An approved spark is worth a lot more. Plenty of more laid back sparking jobs would pay significantly more as well, especially in Edinburgh. The SJIB rates for an approved spark is like £17 quid an hour. Hibs are 10 grand short here.

[Allant1981]

Edinburgh Uni salaries then - private business...............

Pretty sure edinburgh uni recently advertised an electricians job at about 27k per year

[MWHIBBIES]

Correct - these Hibs jobs are on a par with (for example) guys on salary with the University, Council or Edinburgh leisure etc. There are people work for those organisations on salaries comparable with those Hibs ones. Basically, guys who want a steady job / pension without the (sometimes) big stress of self employment etc. Wont suit the guys in their 20s chasing the money, but someone will want it. One of the best plumbers I have ever met worked for Edinburgh Leisure - big Hibby as well :greengrin Cant see it. Can easily work 37.5 hours for a big Edinburgh electrical company for 10k more.

[hibbysam]

No electrician with his 18th, PASMA, Ipaf and testing and inspection is taking a job for 24k. I know apprentices who done a lot of overtime and made 29k in their 3rd years. An approved spark is worth a lot more. Plenty of more laid back sparking jobs would pay significantly more as well, especially in Edinburgh. The SJIB rates for an approved spark is like £17 quid an hour. Hibs are 10 grand short here.

I doubt it’s intended for youngsters who are money driven though. Like I say, I haven’t a clue about it all really, just from the outside it would seem a world of difference from a high pressured project that has strict deadlines to a cooshty number at ER/EM.

[MWHIBBIES]

I doubt it’s intended for youngsters who are money driven though. Like I say, I haven’t a clue about it all really, just from the outside it would seem a world of difference from a high pressured project that has strict deadlines to a cooshty number at ER/EM. There isn't really huge pressure on those projects, though. Maybe for 2/3 of the guys who are running it, but for others its just work, you plod on, the job gets done. If its behind, weekends are offered for more cash. And then you go to the next job which could easily be a bit of jobbing for a couple of months. SJIB rates are £17 per/hour. Edinburgh domestic companies offering £18 P/H and a van. Agency offering upwards of £21. Its a poor wage from Hibs honestly. I'm a Hibby and I wouldn't take it. Not even if they actually put me through the qualifications (IPAF, PASMA etc) that they require.

[WhileTheChief..]

Quick search online shows hourly rates from £12 - £20 available with salaried positions ranging from £24 - £45k for electricians.

Digital sales exec roles from £18k upwards.

Sports journalist £22 - £27k

We’ve not just picked numbers out the sky.

[Rumble de Thump]

There are journalists on much worse salaries, even in Edinburgh. And they will be working all sorts of extra unsociable hours that they won't be getting paid extra for.

[MWHIBBIES]

Quick search online shows hourly rates from £12 - £20 available with salaried positions ranging from £24 - £45k for electricians. Digital sales exec roles from £18k upwards. Sports journalist £22 - £27k We’ve not just picked numbers out the sky. Trust me, there isn't an approved electrician in Edinburgh on £12 quid an hour. Hibs aren't just wanting an electrician. They are wanting an approved one, who has a valid PASMA, IPAF, 18th and testing and inspection. Basically someone at the very top of the trade. Even big companies don't have dozens of guys like that, and they certainly aren't on £12 quid.

[Lendo]

Nice to see another thread descend in to utter nonsense once again.

[green day]

Cant see it. Can easily work 37.5 hours for a big Edinburgh electrical company for 10k more.

Thats right..........but as I mentioned places like council, Edin Leisure and Uni will pay less than the figures you quote, and get staff to do the jobs.

I am not arguing with you - we are both right.

[WhileTheChief..]

Trust me, there isn't an approved electrician in Edinburgh on £12 quid an hour. Hibs aren't just wanting an electrician. They are wanting an approved one, who has a valid PASMA, IPAF, 18th and testing and inspection. Basically someone at the very top of the trade. Even big companies don't have dozens of guys like that, and they certainly aren't on £12 quid.

I doubt that very much. If that was the case they’d have to be offering top dollar to get the best out there. Same as any business.

I think we’re looking for someone that is semi-retired, like your friendly janitor at the local school, or the groundsman that helps out around the golf club for peanuts.

Take a look online yourself for salaried positions and you’ll see the same results as me.

[WhileTheChief..]

Nice to see another thread descend in to utter nonsense once again.

How? It’s a decent chat. I’m learning stuff here.

[MWHIBBIES]

Thats right..........but as I mentioned places like council, Edin Leisure and Uni will pay less than the figures you quote, and get staff to do the jobs. I am not arguing with you - we are both right. Do they require the same things as Hibs do, though? How often do universities need cherry pickers? As I've said, Hibs aren't just wanting a bog standard spark fresh out their time, or some old guy. Their requirements are for guys at the very top of the game. In football terms, they're wanting top 3 quality, for bottom 3 wages.

[green day]

I should say that I am self employed and extrapolating my hourly into a salary would make it (significantly) higher than those Hibs are advertising.

But there is a world of diff between salaried and self emp as the year of Covid proved.

Oh, and its also worth saying that.............if Hibs cant fill the vacancies with the right people on these salaries then they will need to adjust that.

Thats how the world works and its not worth getting upset about:greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

I'm sure Hibs will have benchmarked the salaries and not just made numbers up. I have to say though that it does seem on the low side for electricians. The electricians in my extended team earn 10k more than that for the same hours.

[MWHIBBIES]

I doubt that very much. If that was the case they’d have to be offering top dollar to get the best out there. Same as any business. I think we’re looking for someone that is semi-retired, like your friendly janitor at the local school, or the groundsman that helps out around the golf club for peanuts. Take a look online yourself for salaried positions and you’ll see the same results as me. the 18th edition came out in 2017. So you're needing someone who has sat that course in the last 4 years. Pasma and Ipaf need to be renewed every 5 years. An approved electrician test requires a few years as a electrician then going on different courses and sitting an approved test. Testing and inspection would need to have been done since the 18th edition came out as well. So someone with fully up to date qualifications, who will work any 5 days out of 7, for less holidays and less money than the Scottish joint industry board minimum, in the capital city.

[The Spaceman]

Nice to see another thread descend in to utter nonsense once again.

Don’t think I’ve ever both laughed and yawned at a thread so much in my life.

We are a business, not a charity. Market forces will dictate this either way be it the role being filled or the incentives enhanced.

[WhileTheChief..]

the 18th edition came out in 2017. So you're needing someone who has sat that course in the last 4 years. Pasma and Ipaf need to be renewed every 5 years. An approved electrician test requires a few years as a electrician then going on different courses and sitting an approved test. Testing and inspection would need to have been done since the 18th edition came out as well. So someone with fully up to date qualifications, who will work any 5 days out of 7, for less holidays and less money than the Scottish joint industry board minimum, in the capital city.

You should probably fire this off to Hibs and save them a whole lot of time and bother. They've clearly got it wrong.

[Allant1981]

Why do so many posters on here get their knickers in a twist at the slightest thing, if folk feel that this is a salary they will work for and can live off it then fire in and apply

[MWHIBBIES]

You should probably fire this off to Hibs and save them a whole lot of time and bother. They've clearly got it wrong. I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not. I'm not trying to argue about this or kick off. Ultimately it doesn't effect me, but its well under what someone with all those things is worth. Its not even like they're offering to put the person through those things.

[MWHIBBIES]

Why do so many posters on here get their knickers in a twist at the slightest thing, if folk feel that this is a salary they will work for and can live off it then fire in and apply No one has their knickers in a twist. It is simply a poor wage for what they want, that is all thats being pointed out. They will struggle for someone who fits their requirements IMO.

[Allant1981]

No one has their knickers in a twist. It is simply a poor wage for what they want, that is all thats being pointed out. They will struggle for someone who fits their requirements IMO.

Yes its getting your knickers in a twist, if you dont want to apply for the job then dont, no big deal, pretty sure they will get the position filled no problem

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not. I'm not trying to argue about this or kick off. Ultimately it doesn't effect me, but its well under what someone with all those things is worth. Its not even like they're offering to put the person through those things.

Reads to me that you are.

Why do you think Hibs are offering the salary they are? You seem adamant that you're correct which means you think Hibs have got it wrong.

I'm not taking the piss. Email them and tell them they are wasting their time.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yes its getting your knickers in a twist, if you dont want to apply for the job then dont, no big deal, pretty sure they will get the position filled no problem
Reads to me that you are. Why do you think Hibs are offering the salary they are? You seem adamant that you're correct which means you think Hibs have got it wrong. I'm not taking the piss. Email them and tell them they are wasting there time. They might fill the position, yes. Does that automatically mean they aren't paying less than average, though? My knickers aren't in a twist at all. Sorry, but clearly neither of you know anything about what Hibs are wanting here. Its not my opinion Hibs are wrong here, its a fact that guys and girls with those qualifications are on significantly more. It is a very poor offer. You can accuse me of getting bothered by this all you want, I'm really not. I'm just pointing out the facts. Which neither if you are responding to, but instead just saying my knickers are in a twist?

[Allant1981]

They might fill the position, yes. Does that automatically mean they aren't paying less than average, though? My knickers aren't in a twist at all. Sorry, but clearly neither of you know anything about what Hibs are wanting here. Its not my opinion Hibs are wrong here, its a fact that guys and girls with those qualifications are on significantly more. It is a very poor offer. You can accuse me of getting bothered by this all you want, I'm really not. I'm just pointing out the facts. Which neither if you are responding to, but instead just saying my knickers are in a twist?

Im a facilities manager so believe me i know what they are wanting

[MWHIBBIES]

Im a facilities manager so believe me i know what they are wanting Fair enough. Do you know anyone with these qualifications who gets paid that amount?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not. I'm not trying to argue about this or kick off.

You pick an argument with everyone else when ANYTHING doesn’t suit your opinion and then go relentlessly full throttle in an attempt to grind them down into submission so why stop here?

[MWHIBBIES]

You pick an argument with everyone else when ANYTHING doesn’t suit your opinion and then go relentlessly full throttle in an attempt to grind them down into submission so why stop here? Oh bore off. Or keep it on topic. Your choice. I've not done anything like you are describing. I've posted some facts about the situation. Its pretty clear to anyone who bothers to look these things up that Hibs are well underpaying for this position. Don't know why that is so hard to accept for some.

[Allant1981]

Fair enough. Do you know anyone with these qualifications who gets paid that amount?

We tend to get contractors in for working at height jobs but the other qualifications yes i do, look at what an nhs sparky needs to be qualified in to get a job and have no issues employing staff

[MWHIBBIES]

We tend to get contractors in for working at height jobs but the other qualifications yes i do, look at what an nhs sparky needs to be qualified in to get a job and have no issues employing staff Have to say, that is mental if true. But fair enough, I cant prove you wrong. Assume they are all older guys? Cant imagine many new sparks want to work years with a bigish company, get their time out, get all the qualifications through that company and then drop back to 4th year apprentice wages.

[A Hi-Bee]

Oh bore off. Or keep it on topic. Your choice. I've not done anything like you are describing. I've posted some facts about the situation. Its pretty clear to anyone who bothers to look these things up that Hibs are well underpaying for this position. Don't know why that is so hard to accept for some.

Who cares, is this not a freedom of choice thing unless a closed shop union job? It's Hibs business is it not, and as others have said sure they will fill the positions one way or the other, its just a sparky's job.
:greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

Who cares, is this not a freedom of choice thing unless a closed shop union job? It's Hibs business is it not, and as others have said sure they will fill the positions one way or the other, its just a sparky's job. :greengrin Of course, I've already said there is a good chance they will fill it. They might need to up the wage a bit, or lower the expectations, but they'll fill it. Again, simply filling a position is different from offering the going rate for it.

[Allant1981]

Have to say, that is mental if true. But fair enough, I cant prove you wrong. Assume they are all older guys? Cant imagine many new sparks want to work years with a bigish company, get their time out, get all the qualifications through that company and then drop back to 4th year apprentice wages.


Depends what we are calling older, we have quite a few guys under 40, gets them a fair bit of experience, they get on call money, weekends etc so adds up

[MWHIBBIES]

Depends what we are calling older, we have quite a few guys under 40, gets them a fair bit of experience, they get on call money, weekends etc so adds up Hang on. So there is overtime and on call money? So basically, they're on a lot more than 24k?

[bod]

Good luck to anyone on here who goes for any of the jobs advertised

[Moulin Yarns]

I see that the Rangers away league match is being beamed back to Easter Road on the new screens. Well done the Big Ron. 😁👍

[Allant1981]

Hang on. So there is overtime and on call money? So basically, they're on a lot more than 24k?

Only if they go on call(not a huge amount of money for the week, its about £180 if memory serves) so no not on a lot more than their basic, im guessing hibs will require them to be on call as well

[easty]

Does anyone know if the catering staff at half time get paid the same as the guy who sells burgers at music festivals from a van?

If we’re paying less, I’m going to be raging.

[Allant1981]

Does anyone know if the catering staff at half time get paid the same as the guy who sells burgers at music festivals from a van?

If we’re paying less, I’m going to be raging.

I actually done this years ago, was selling pizzas at t in the park, we made a cracking amount for the weekend

[wookie70]

Does anyone know if the catering staff at half time get paid the same as the guy who sells burgers at music festivals from a van?

If we’re paying less, I’m going to be raging. They get £9.50 an hour or £11 if supervising from what I remember. That is more than someone working in McDonalds. Judging by how few there are that still isn't enough to attract staff. The infrastructure behind the club is something supporters should care about. Floodlight failure, sub standard pitches etc. My concern is that I want the club I love to be a good employer. I want to be proud of everything the club does and while I have no issue with trying to get supporters in to get seats screwed into place I want the permanent employees paid well and treated well

[Rumble de Thump]

These jobs will appeal to people for all kinds of reasons, and whoever the succesful applicants are will be happy to have landed the jobs.

[loanheadhibby]

Quick search online shows hourly rates from £12 - £20 available with salaried positions ranging from £24 - £45k for electricians.

Digital sales exec roles from £18k upwards.

Sports journalist £22 - £27k

We’ve not just picked numbers out the sky.

Not doubting your source but a labour gets £12 ph CiS/Umbrella with an agency. I’d be surprised at any sparkie

Joiner/spark - £20-25 ph.

If there are sparkies that are 18th Edition and working for £12 an hour, they won’t be up to much.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not doubting your source but a labour gets £12 ph CiS/Umbrella with an agency. I’d be surprised at any sparkie

Joiner/spark - £20-25 ph.

If there are sparkies that are 18th Edition and working for £12 an hour, they won’t be up to much.

I'm not sure, but I imagine that you would have to be self employed or agency work and have to pay full NI contributions which will be why they are paid more. As an employee you'll be paying less contributions, reflected in the salary.

Totally off the top of my head.

[loanheadhibby]

I'm not sure, but I imagine that you would have to be self employed or agency work and have to pay full NI contributions which will be why they are paid more. As an employee you'll be paying less contributions, reflected in the salary.

Totally off the top of my head.

Even so, at £25 ph on a minimum 37.5hr contract, that’s circa £50k pa. Even with your NI conts/tax liability/van/tools etc, your still walking out with a chunk more than £24k pa.

I hope the club find someone but it’s not an attractive proposition to a tradesman.

[NC1875]

An approved Electrician with no 2391, no Pasma, no IPAF should be getting £15.61 an hour shop rate. And £17 odds travel rate per hour.

Throw in all the extra qualifications and training Hibs are asking for and it’s not even up for debate that they are way out with the salary.

It’s not even close.

If they manage to fill the role then fair play but show me guys with all those qualifications and experience willing to work for 24k a year and I’ll take 2 of them on today.

They’re just not out there in Edinburgh, especially with jobs like St James where labourers are making more than 24k.

[MWHIBBIES]

An approved Electrician with no 2391, no Pasma, no IPAF should be getting £15.61 an hour shop rate. And £17 odds travel rate per hour.

Throw in all the extra qualifications and training Hibs are asking for and it’s not even up for debate that they are way out with the salary.

It’s not even close.

If they manage to fill the role then fair play but show me guys with all those qualifications and experience willing to work for 24k a year and I’ll take 2 of them on today.

They’re just not out there in Edinburgh, especially with jobs like St James where labourers are making more than 24k.

Spot on.

[Iain G]

An approved Electrician with no 2391, no Pasma, no IPAF should be getting £15.61 an hour shop rate. And £17 odds travel rate per hour.

Throw in all the extra qualifications and training Hibs are asking for and it’s not even up for debate that they are way out with the salary.

It’s not even close.

If they manage to fill the role then fair play but show me guys with all those qualifications and experience willing to work for 24k a year and I’ll take 2 of them on today.

They’re just not out there in Edinburgh, especially with jobs like St James where labourers are making more than 24k.

And the sparks would have to work past 2.30 most days for Hibs which is unheard of... 🤣

[MagicSwirlingShip]

I wonder if the right candidate would be able to negotiate a salary of their requirements. Like most jobs these days

[CMurdoch]

Nae wonder McCrorie signed for Aberdeen
Laddie thought it was £24k a month we were offering and was about to sign when he realised it was per year!

[seanshow]

At the beginning this thread was quite enlightening, but now it's getting on my globes.

[Stairway 2 7]

Seen dozens that work for the uni, historic Scotland and Parliament on similar to what hibs are offering. It'll be topped up by overtime, call out ect. The reason they except lower wages is for quality of life.

At the uni they are in back of 8 home before 3, relaxed day never pushed just fixing light's ect, 8 weeks full pay holiday that you need to add in self employed don't get, pension and taxes sorted for you, no finding jobs or dealing with customers really. The saying at historic Scotland from a plumber I knew was I get paid a lot for what I actually do.

They all could go on their own and make much more, but are happy in life. Half day Friday don't think about work until Monday

[Phil MaGlass]

At the beginning this thread was quite enlightening, but now it's getting on my globes.

Onwards and Upwards

[wookie70]

Seen dozens that work for the uni, historic Scotland and Parliament on similar to what hibs are offering. It'll be topped up by overtime, call out ect. The reason they except lower wages is for quality of life.

At the uni they are in back of 8 home before 3, relaxed day never pushed just fixing light's ect, 8 weeks full pay holiday that you need to add in self employed don't get, pension and taxes sorted for you, no finding jobs or dealing with customers really. The saying at historic Scotland from a plumber I knew was I get paid a lot for what I actually do.

They all could go on their own and make much more, but are happy in life. Half day Friday don't think about work until Monday

Under 6 weeks holiday from Hibs and a pension that will not be as good as the Civil Service. Not one positive remark I can see on twitter either. There is also no guarantee that the job will allow hours anything less than what is contracted and given it is an American employer they might expect more for no extra pay.

As they say these days the "Optics" don't look great

[RyeSloan]

Under 6 weeks holiday from Hibs and a pension that will not be as good as the Civil Service. Not one positive remark I can see on twitter either. There is also no guarantee that the job will allow hours anything less than what is contracted and given it is an American employer they might expect more for no extra pay.

As they say these days the "Optics" don't look great

What? Hibs are an American employer now?

And Twitter is now the barometer of choice?

And the optics are just fine. There’s a job available at a prescribed wage that anyone can freely apply for or not, at their own volition.

[WhileTheChief..]

Under 6 weeks holiday from Hibs and a pension that will not be as good as the Civil Service. Not one positive remark I can see on twitter either. There is also no guarantee that the job will allow hours anything less than what is contracted and given it is an American employer they might expect more for no extra pay.

As they say these days the "Optics" don't look great

Huh?

Think of all the American employers in the UK, thousands of companies, millions of employees. Their staff get paid the same as everyone else in the workplace!!

What an utterly bizarre take on things.

Why should Hibs offer a pension equal to the civil service? Why did you pick that to go by? There's very few companies offer final salary pensions these days, especially to new members.

Nest is fine as a Workplace pension. I get 20 days holidays plus 9 public days.

Don't see any problem with what Hibs are doing here.

[Allant1981]

What? Hibs are an American employer now?

And Twitter is now the barometer of choice?

And the optics are just fine. There’s a job available at a prescribed wage that anyone can freely apply for or not, at their own volition.


But then what would certain folk moan about, even folk that have no interest in applying for the post or cant apply for the post have been having a pop

[Lendo]

Huh?

Think of all the American employers in the UK, thousands of companies, millions of employees. Their staff get paid the same as everyone else in the workplace!!

What an utterly bizarre take on things.

Why should Hibs offer a pension equal to the civil service? Why did you pick that to go by? There's very few companies offer final salary pensions these days, especially to new members.

Nest is fine as a Workplace pension. I get 20 days holidays plus 9 public days.

Don't see any problem with what Hibs are doing here.

Thats because there is no problem. Just a bunch of people moaning about something that has zero impact on their day to day lives. There will be someone out there that will look at that role and think, yeah that works for me. Whether it’s someone older on the wind down or a young guy or girl recently qualified that’ll use it as a stepping stone.

[hibeejeebies]

I like football.

[MWHIBBIES]

Thats because there is no problem. Just a bunch of people moaning about something that has zero impact on their day to day lives. There will be someone out there that will look at that role and think, yeah that works for me. Whether it’s someone older on the wind down or a young guy or girl recently qualified that’ll use it as a stepping stone. Sorry but I don't understand why this ''someone recently qualified'' line keeps being repeated. An electrician just out their time is not an approved electrician. There is a difference. They will not nessessarily have their IPAF or PASMA as well. An older guy winding down would've need to have gone through at least 4 different courses in the previous 4 years to be qualified for this. This job requires someone really at the top of their game, right up to date on everything, likely just been working on big sites where PASMA and IPAF are required.

[easty]

Sorry but I don't understand why this ''someone recently qualified'' line keeps being repeated. An electrician just out their time is not an approved electrician. There is a difference. They will not nessessarily have their IPAF or PASMA as well. An older guy winding down would've need to have gone through at least 4 different courses in the previous 4 years to be qualified for this. This job requires someone really at the top of their game, right up to date on everything, likely just been working on big sites where PASMA and IPAF are required.

What does it really matter? You don’t think Hibs are offering a fair wage, that’s fine, don’t apply for it.

If someone who does have the qualifications and wants to apply then ultimately that’s up to them. If nobody wants the job at that level of pay then Hibs will have to re-advertise and offer more.

Nobody is being disadvantaged, nobody is being taken advantage of, it’s a job that’s an option for anyone who wants to go for it.

[MWHIBBIES]

What does it really matter? You don’t think Hibs are offering a fair wage, that’s fine, don’t apply for it. If someone who does have the qualifications and they apply then ultimately that’s up to them. If nobody wants the job at that level of pay then Hibs will have to re-advertise and offer more. Nobody is being disadvantaged, nobody is being taken advantage of, it’s a job that’s an option for anyone who wants to go for it. I agree. I've already said all the things you've just said. None of them make this the going rate for a person with those qualifications. Hibs are trying to get someone for less than they are worth elswhere.

[Lendo]

Sorry but I don't understand why this ''someone recently qualified'' line keeps being repeated. An electrician just out their time is not an approved electrician. There is a difference. They will not nessessarily have their IPAF or PASMA as well. An older guy winding down would've need to have gone through at least 4 different courses in the previous 4 years to be qualified for this. This job requires someone really at the top of their game, right up to date on everything, likely just been working on big sites where PASMA and IPAF are required.

Why are you so upset about this?

[superfurryhibby]

Thats because there is no problem. Just a bunch of people moaning about something that has zero impact on their day to day lives. There will be someone out there that will look at that role and think, yeah that works for me. Whether it’s someone older on the wind down or a young guy or girl recently qualified that’ll use it as a stepping stone.

It seems people can’t make a distinction between a spark working on short term contracts via agencies and a spark who has a full time permanent contract. My pal works as a spark for a large utilities supplier. The salary is well under £30,000/ year. Yes, there is no doubt decent money to be working on sites, but some people prefer a secure job, access to a pension and decent holidays and sick pay.

[MWHIBBIES]

Why are you so upset about this? You get the facts pointing out to you, which contradict your reasons for this being a lower wage, and this is what you reply with? I'm not upset. I just cannot understand why people are trying to justify this from Hibs. Hibs are trying to fill what is, lets face it, an important position in the operations team, with a wage much lower than the average for that position. All the facts point to this? Why is it so difficult to accept. Absolute RAGE on here if this happens for a first team player, but the ''we're not a charity'' line comes out when its a stadium operations position.

[MWHIBBIES]

It seems people can’t make a distinction between a spark working on short term contracts via agencies and a spark who has a full time permanent contract. My pal works as a spark for a large utilities supplier. The salary is well under £30,000/ year. Yes, there is no doubt decent money to be working on sites, but some people prefer a secure job, access to a pension and decent holidays and sick pay. Any SJIB registered company, big or small, gives all of those things. There is no insecurity working for a big company who do big sites.

[Stairway 2 7]

Any SJIB registered company, big or small, gives all of those things. There is no insecurity working for a big company who do big sites.

The work they do is a world away. As I say dozens of tradesmen at my work get paid similar to what hibs are offering and their is always a queue for the jobs. They say they get paid well for what they actually do and fair play to them. Quality of life is worth thousands

[MWHIBBIES]

The work they do is a world away. As I say dozens of tradesmen at my work get paid similar to what hibs are offering and their is always a queue for the jobs. They say they get paid well for what they actually do and fair play to them. Quality of life is worth thousands

It's not world's away.. Plenty of big sjib companies do maintenance work on things like uni buildings, pub chains, estate agents etc. I know guys who daily do all the things Hibs are wanting here.

It's a subjective thing if someone wants this job of course. I hope someone takes it and does a great job. It is still well under the average wage for someone with those qualifications.

[Moulin Yarns]

The thread title should be positive, but the last few days it has all been folks arguing over the wages offered for tradesmen. Is there seriously nothing positive to say about how the club are progressing, or is everything negative.

Remember the old saying, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing!

[MWHIBBIES]

The thread title should be positive, but the last few days it has all been folks arguing over the wages offered for tradesmen. Is there seriously nothing positive to say about how the club are progressing, or is everything negative.

Remember the old saying, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing!

Hibs. Net, where you must unconditionally blow smoke up the clubs arse.

I don't suddenly hate Hibs. The facts show they are offering a very low wage for what they are wanting. That's it. I'm still going to the match today.

[Eyrie]

Hibs. Net, where you must unconditionally blow smoke up the clubs arse.

I don't suddenly hate Hibs. The facts show they are offering a very low wage for what they are wanting. That's it. I'm still going to the match today.

And if you don't, you must unconditionally criticise the club for everything.

Hibs wouldn't have advertised the job at that salary if they didn't think there would be interest. You've explained why you think a higher salary should be appropriate, but you don't need to keep explaining it over and over.

[Green Reaper]

Our sponsorship deals certainly seem to have expanded quite a bit and by the sounds of it, in Rons interview, we are just beginning to increase our revenue. Don’t think I’ve ever felt so positive about the direction in which our club is going, exciting times being a Hibby just now 💚

[MWHIBBIES]

And if you don't, you must unconditionally criticise the club for everything.

Hibs wouldn't have advertised the job at that salary if they didn't think there would be interest. You've explained why you think a higher salary should be appropriate, but you don't need to keep explaining it over and over.

I very rarely say a bad word about Hibs on here.

If people continue to reply to me talking about it, I'll continue to reply to them. That's all that's happening here

[Brightside]

The salaries are very poor. No doubting that. You get what you pay for though.

[Moulin Yarns]

Oscar Wilde was right :wink:


What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.


Today, many of us confuse the meaning of the word “value” with the word “price”. Or maybe the word “cost.” However such terms mean very different things. Especially in business.
Speak to a group of marketing people (even if it may be something I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy). Ask them what, in their opinion, would be the criteria for something to be perceived by potential buyers as having a high “value for money” rating.
I’d bet most of them would tell you that the product in question needs to either be either:


Cheaper than the competition’s offering
Offering “more” than the competition

Of course in the real world the perception of what constitutes “value” is more subtle, and a lot more subjective. Just by pricing your widgets 25% cheaper than the ones sold by the guy down the street doesn’t mean that everyone’s going to buy your widgets and no-one’s going to buy his.
Why not? Because some customers will have their own rationale why they will continue buy from him and not from you. Perhaps some people value the fact he offers online ordering, or free delivery. Perhaps he puts his widgets in a nicer-looking package than yours.




Price is not the same as value Whatever the reason, some buyers prefer to buy from him, even if he’s more expensive than you. The reason doesn’t have to make sense to you, as long as it makes sense to them. They’re buying for reasons other just just price. They see ‘value’, over and above what is being sold.
The fact is, nobody would buy any product or service – at whatever price it was sold at, from whatever business – if they didn’t see the ‘value’ being demonstrated as part of the transaction. Price may be one thing, but value is everything.
Value has little to do with price. A corkscrew is inexpensive to buy, but if you’re trying to get into a bottle of wine it has immense value. Similarly just because something costs more than its peers doesn’t mean it’s poor value. If it did, nobody would buy an Apple computer, or a BMW automobile, or an IWC watch. Every brand that exists today has ‘value’ to someone. Otherwise the brand would not exist.
The only reason that a product or service absolutely needs to be cheaper, or offer more for less, is when it is deemed to be a commodity. An item can be considered a commodity when it has no other inherent communicable “value” that its market would pay for, other than its price in relation to the competition.




Price is what you pay. Value is what you get. For example, I don’t care what brand of paperclips I buy. I’m guessing you probably don’t care much either. If I’m in the market to buy paperclips, I’m simply looking for the best deal. If you make paperclips and want me to buy from you, you need to communicate your value. You need to show me how your paperclips are ‘better’ than the ones I’d otherwise buy. If you can’t, then you need to price them cheaper if you’re to get my business.
But the problem with selling a commodity is that there’s always someone, somewhere, who’s prepared to sell it cheaper. With price as your biggest differentiator, you’re in a race to the bottom.
Supermarkets, for example, often work on the loss-leader principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader). They’ll sell daily staples, such as milk or bread, for less than it costs to buy them. The goal is to use such low pricing as an enticement to get more customers through the door. Once they’re in, the supermarket is gambling on these customers buying other stuff while they’re in the store. The profits made for the other items offsets the losses made on the bread and milk, evening-out the profit-per-customer statistics.

[Eyrie]

I very rarely say a bad word about Hibs on here.

If people continue to reply to me talking about it, I'll continue to reply to them. That's all that's happening here

All you're doing is repeating yourself and dragging this out. if people can't understand what you explained the first dozen times, why waste your time posting it the next dozen?

And on that note, I'm out.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Another thread ruined by the usual suspect.

[MWHIBBIES]

All you're doing is repeating yourself and dragging this out. if people can't understand what you explained the first dozen times, why waste your time posting it the next dozen?

And on that note, I'm out.

Why are they continuing to argue something they don't understand then? About 15 people have said the same as me on this thread.


Another thread ruined by the usual suspect.

Another post off topic. Please stop breaking the rules.

[Pretty Boy]

Why does everything have to be framed as positive v negative?

I think it's been a fairly interesting discussion and I would say I've learned a lot from it. Admittedly it has suffered from the online phenomenon that sees the requirement to have the last word ensure it becomes endlessly cyclical but that's a given now.

I haven't seen many people be unduly critical of the club, and of those who have questioned the salary at least a couple are usually relentlessly positive. Likewise I haven't see many blindly defend the club either.

As I said earlier in the thread I'm not much of a fan of the 'if you don' t like the salary, don't apply for the job' argument. It stifles genuine conversation around what is a real living wage, paints such concerns as an individual issue rather than a societal one and allows the chronic exploitative underpayment of certain sectors, care as one example, to continue. Equally though I stand by the point that that doesn't apply in this instance. A spark that has all the qualifications Hibs want could command a higher wage elsewhere if they wanted it, of course that may require making other sacrifices though. If they are applying for the job it is because they want to rather than out of desperation as can be the case in other sectors with horrendous wages on offer. That seems fair enough to me.

I think it might be the case that there are 2 or 3 different arguments getting conflated on this thread and that always spells trouble.

[Lago]

I agree. I've already said all the things you've just said. None of them make this the going rate for a person with those qualifications. Hibs are trying to get someone for less than they are worth elswhere.
Then it's a personal decision for an individual to make.

[MWHIBBIES]

Then it's a personal decision for an individual to make.

Absolutely.

[Since90+2]

Could it be Hibs are banking on a fan wanting to work for the club they will accept a lower salary?

I know personally I'd probably accept being paid a bit less if it meant working for Hibs.

[BILLYHIBS]

I would play for HIBS for nothing 😂

[Moulin Yarns]

I would play for HIBS for nothing 😂

Are we not trying to progress rather than regress? 😉

[Inconsequential]

I would play for HIBS for nothing �� Nah, you're ok. But thanks. :wink:

[evy]

The phonecall I got through the week regarding St James was £23 an hour then £36 for a Saturday and £46 for a Sunday so that’s the kind of figures the club are competing with at the minute. I genuinely don’t know an electrician who’d work for that salary on offer. As I said maybe an older guy or someone mortgage free or someone with loads in the bank. All the salaries are poor not just the sparky offering.

FWIW the Sales Ledger clerk in finance is more than competitive, Royal College of Surgeons was £19.5k in 2019 when I applied, so £22k starting is excellent. If I wasn't so happy in my current role (not the RCS job), I'd be applying for it.

[Chip shop Joe]

Who actually cares what Hibs are or are not looking to pay an electrician!

I can’t believe some of the threads on here at the moment.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Who actually cares what Hibs are or are not looking to pay an electrician!

I can’t believe some of the threads on here at the moment.

I was wondering what Easter road having a low paid electrician could possibly have to do with everyday fans 🤨 and why anyone would care enough to comment.

[Not In The Know]

Who actually cares what Hibs are or are not looking to pay an electrician!

I can’t believe some of the threads on here at the moment.

as long as hearts don’t sign them up from under our noses and boast about it I’ll be happy. 😄

[Bangkok Hibby]

Ron obviously runs a tight ship. Hopefully every penny saved on ancillary staff goes towards the team.

[son of haggart]

Huh?

Think of all the American employers in the UK, thousands of companies, millions of employees. Their staff get paid the same as everyone else in the workplace!!

What an utterly bizarre take on things.

Why should Hibs offer a pension equal to the civil service? Why did you pick that to go by? There's very few companies offer final salary pensions these days, especially to new members.

Nest is fine as a Workplace pension. I get 20 days holidays plus 9 public days.

Don't see any problem with what Hibs are doing here.

Even the civil service doesn't offer final salary pension schemes to those who joined after 2015 - it's career average these days (still good, but not as 'gold plated' as the Daily Mail would have you believe)

[MacBean]

Undefeated domestically
2nd in the League
Semi Final of League Cup
Above Hearts
New Screens
New Kiosks and menu
Dozens of new sponsors
Players tied up for longer / not lost key players, whilst bringing others in
Ross tied up for another 2 years
Continuing to look at transfer targets with 1 already joining us in January
Change in direction on recruitment front
Stadium seats being put in
Support for Hibernian Women's team (derby game this week at ER)
Oh... and still that potential £2m payout from the "loss of earnings insurance" Ron took out when he bought the club.



If you can't see the positives of what Ron is doing and can only moan about some wages etc then you need to rethink your outlook

:flag::flag:

[WhileTheChief..]

Not really relevant to this thread but didn’t want to start a new one.

James Anderson’s donation to Scottish youth football…..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58717270

[MWHIBBIES]

Undefeated domestically
2nd in the League
Semi Final of League Cup
Above Hearts
New Screens
New Kiosks and menu
Dozens of new sponsors
Players tied up for longer / not lost key players, whilst bringing others in
Ross tied up for another 2 years
Continuing to look at transfer targets with 1 already joining us in January
Change in direction on recruitment front
Stadium seats being put in
Support for Hibernian Women's team (derby game this week at ER)
Oh... and still that potential £2m payout from the "loss of earnings insurance" Ron took out when he bought the club.



If you can't see the positives of what Ron is doing and can only moan about some wages etc then you need to rethink your outlook

:flag::flag:
Maybe some people can do both? At no point did me or the dozen others say he wasn't doing a good job.

[MacBean]

No need to be so vocal and volatile about something so minute in the grand scheme of things. Keep the thread on track and appropriate

[CMurdoch]

Undefeated domestically check in a weeks time
2nd in the League check in a weeks time
Semi Final of League Cup
Above Hearts check in a weeks time
New Screens
New Kiosks and menu
Dozens of new sponsors how much are they paying and how much does it exceed the cost of staff
Players tied up for longer / not lost key players, whilst bringing others in
Ross tied up for another 2 years
Continuing to look at transfer targets with 1 already joining us in January
Change in direction on recruitment front wait and see if wastage on recruitment improves
Stadium seats being put in
Support for Hibernian Women's team (derby game this week at ER)
Oh... and still that potential £2m payout from the "loss of earnings insurance" Ron took out when he bought the club it's all gone very quiet on this front. Wait and see


If you can't see the positives of what Ron is doing and can only moan about some wages etc then you need to rethink your outlook

:flag::flag:

Very selective but I agree everything is looking good and everything is moving forward but most stuff is on the launch pad awaiting launch. I reckon the whole picture will start to be revealed in 11 months time.

The big pluses are:


Players tied up for longer / not lost key players
Ross tied up for another 2 years

[blackpoolhibs]

Very selective but I agree everything is looking good and everything is moving forward but most stuff is on the launch pad awaiting launch. I reckon the whole picture will start to be revealed in 11 months time.

The big pluses are:


Players tied up for longer / not lost key players
Ross tied up for another 2 years



I think the bigger pluses are we are no longer sheite, and look to be a club who can now compete regularly for Europe through our league position, and for cups by making the later stages most seasons.

And under the new owner, i feel this much more than i ever did under the last one.

Everything else is just white noise to me, nice to hear about but ultimately the team are my major focus. If they do well, i feel good about the club.

There's no point having big screens if we are playing poor and fighting relegation, i dont feel we will be doing that anytime soon. :top marks:hibees

[cubehindthegoal]

Very selective but I agree everything is looking good and everything is moving forward but most stuff is on the launch pad awaiting launch. I reckon the whole picture will start to be revealed in 11 months time.

The big pluses are:


Players tied up for longer / not lost key players
Ross tied up for another 2 years


I think the list of positives is fair in it’s selection, and my personal history of supporting Hibs (for over 50 years) tells me that it’s much better now than most of that time … some exceptions of course perhaps,, maybe in the 70s, Sauzee and Latapy times, and of course May 2016. But all in all, on and off the field feels like it has grown since the thankful demise of Butcher, and off the field feels as strong as it ever has in my time … stronger perhaps.

[Allez Hibs]

I think the bigger pluses are we are no longer sheite, and look to be a club who can now compete regularly for Europe through our league position, and for cups by making the later stages most seasons.

And under the new owner, i feel this much more than i ever did under the last one.

Everything else is just white noise to me, nice to hear about but ultimately the team are my major focus. If they do well, i feel good about the club.

There's no point having big screens if we are playing poor and fighting relegation, i dont feel we will be doing that anytime soon. :top marks:hibeesClub feels like it's getting bigger and growing which is what we have all wanted for years.

We are by a distance ahead of the rest and in the tier of clubs just behind Rangers and Celtic on the field now.

Looking like a top 4 of Glasgow and Edinburgh this season with some pundits thinking the Edinburgh clubs could even challenge for the title.

[matty_f]

Hibs. Net, where you must unconditionally blow smoke up the clubs arse.

I don't suddenly hate Hibs. The facts show they are offering a very low wage for what they are wanting. That's it. I'm still going to the match today.

You’d think there was only one side of this argument being presented on here.

Hibs.net, where you must unconditionally forget that you’ve been able to make (repeatedly) the point that is being discussed.

[blackpoolhibs]

Club feels like it's getting bigger and growing which is what we have all wanted for years.

We are by a distance ahead of the rest and in the tier of clubs just behind Rangers and Celtic on the field now.

Looking like a top 4 of Glasgow and Edinburgh this season with some idiots thinking the Edinburgh clubs could even challenge for the title.
sorted.

[Allez Hibs]

sorted.Is tampering with a users quoted post allowed? [emoji848]

[Danderhall Hibs]

tampering with a users quoted post is allowed? [emoji848]

“FTFY” is what normally accompanied it

[Allez Hibs]

sorted.I wouldn't say Mikey Stewart is an idiot. Easily the best and most honest pundit up here. He was talking a lot of sense before the 3pm games on Sportsound on Saturday when they were discussing Ron Gordon's interview and why change is needed, granted Willie Miller was tying himself in knots and was sceptical.

More pundits should be following Mikey Stewart lead and calling Rangers out for what they are.

[worcesterhibby]

I wouldn't say Mikey Stewart is an idiot. Easily the best and most honest pundit up here. He was talking a lot of sense before the 3pm games on Sportsound on Saturday when they were discussing Ron Gordon's interview and why change is needed, granted Willie Miller was tying himself in knots and was sceptical.

More pundits should be following Mikey Stewart lead and calling Rangers out for what they are.

I sort of agree with you both. I would be amazed if either Edinburgh club was within 10 points of the old firm by the end of the season, but it’s also really refreshing to have one of the countries most high profile pundits not connected to the old firm and happy to “talk up” the importance of Hibs and Hearts. If he really thinks we are likely to properly compete with the old firm this season then I’m afraid he’s probably wide of the mark, but I love the fact he is positive about teams outside of Glasgow. :agree:

[loanheadhibby]

I wouldn't say Mikey Stewart is an idiot. Easily the best and most honest pundit up here. He was talking a lot of sense before the 3pm games on Sportsound on Saturday when they were discussing Ron Gordon's interview and why change is needed, granted Willie Miller was tying himself in knots and was sceptical.

More pundits should be following Mikey Stewart lead and calling Rangers out for what they are.

I heard M Stewart on Saturday and agree he’s generally decent. However, on Saturday he called out Sky for only covering Celtic/Huns away games.

It was a bit hypocritical in my view. Last Thursday BBC Scotland opted to pick Celtic v Raith over Dundee Utd v hibs, Saturday the live game was Dundee v Rangers as opposed to Hearts v Livi, and Sunday it was Celtic v Dundee Utd over Hibs v St Johnstone.

The BBC are every bit as bad as Sky when favouring Glasgow clubs over the rest of Scottish football but Mikey Stewart conveniently doesn’t mention that.

[Allez Hibs]

I heard M Stewart on Saturday and agree he’s generally decent. However, on Saturday he called out Sky for only covering Celtic/Huns away games.

It was a bit hypocritical in my view. Last Thursday BBC Scotland opted to pick Celtic v Raith over Dundee Utd v hibs, Saturday the live game was Dundee v Rangers as opposed to Hearts v Livi, and Sunday it was Celtic v Dundee Utd over Hibs v St Johnstone.

The BBC are every bit as bad as Sky when favouring Glasgow clubs over the rest of Scottish football but Mikey Stewart conveniently doesn’t mention that.That's a fair point, I think I saw someone else mention BBC stating they have to remain impartial on five live. Mark Chapman is always saying they have to remain impartial when he's on five live before they discuss something or head somewhere.

Why is that not the case on BBC Radio Scotland? I heard Richard Gordon say something which was a clear breach of impartiality. And then you have their favourites always discussing the Old Firm. It needs to change.

[blackpoolhibs]

I wouldn't say Mikey Stewart is an idiot. Easily the best and most honest pundit up here. He was talking a lot of sense before the 3pm games on Sportsound on Saturday when they were discussing Ron Gordon's interview and why change is needed, granted Willie Miller was tying himself in knots and was sceptical.

More pundits should be following Mikey Stewart lead and calling Rangers out for what they are.

He is if he thinks anyone apart from the bigots will win the league.

[loanheadhibby]

That's a fair point, I think I saw someone else mention BBC stating they have to remain impartial on five live. Mark Chapman is always saying they have to remain impartial when he's on five live before they discuss something or head somewhere.

Why is that not the case on BBC Radio Scotland? I heard Richard Gordon say something which was a clear breach of impartiality. And then you have their favourites always discussing the Old Firm. It needs to change.

Last Thursday stuck in my throat. Celtic v Raith over Utd v Hibs. I mean seriously!

It’s pandering to the masses. Most conversations end up discussing the Ugly sisters.

I used to enjoy it when Craig Paterson and Tam McManus had a slot but you’ve not Rly got anyone with Hibs connections.

Bonner for Celtic, Miller for Dons, Levein/Stewart Hearts, Hateley/Ferguson for the Huns.

Yogi is ok but always feel like he’s touting himself for a managers job.

[Allez Hibs]

He is if he thinks anyone apart from the bigots will win the league.They key word is challenge [emoji106]

[Allez Hibs]

Last Thursday stuck in my throat. Celtic v Raith over Utd v Hibs. I mean seriously!

It’s pandering to the masses. Most conversations end up discussing the Ugly sisters.

I used to enjoy it when Craig Paterson and Tam McManus had a slot but you’ve not Rly got anyone with Hibs connections.

Bonner for Celtic, Miller for Dons, Levein/Stewart Hearts, Hateley/Ferguson for the Huns.

Yogi is ok but always feel like he’s touting himself for a managers job.Agreed, it can be painful at times with Tom English, Bonner, Ferguson and even Miller who is stuck in a different era. It is still generally decent though, especially open all mics which is a very good show.

I remember back in the day Gordon Smith and Murdo McLeod were on it and don't recall them being as Old Firm biased as it is now.

[Pretty Boy]

I think as fans it's OK to dream about winning the league, it's OK to talk it up even if we don't really believe it and if we win at the weekend it's OK to get a bit excited about it.

The Scottish Premiership in it's various incarnations has been so dull in terms of a title challenge from outside Glasgow for so long that I can't get on board with this grounded realism. If we are within touching distance at the top, no matter how early then I'm going to big it up and enjoy it.

I think were we have to be realistic is if/when we fall away. You have to have the smarts to realise that finishing 3rd or 4th is still a good season. Of course if someone like Motherwell or, God forbid, Hearts go on to win it then you can ask why not us? If, as we all expect if we are being honest it ends up being Rangers, Celtic...............the rest then going nuts because we bottled it or whatever is just daft.

[blackpoolhibs]

They key word is challenge [emoji106]

Every season we start off challenging for the league, but it's still idiotic to think we will win it.

[Iain G]

Who actually cares what Hibs are or are not looking to pay an electrician!

I can’t believe some of the threads on here at the moment.

With all this talk of electricians, maybe the thread title should be changed to "Under Ron the Club is glowing"?

[Since452]

Last Thursday stuck in my throat. Celtic v Raith over Utd v Hibs. I mean seriously!

It’s pandering to the masses. Most conversations end up discussing the Ugly sisters.

I used to enjoy it when Craig Paterson and Tam McManus had a slot but you’ve not Rly got anyone with Hibs connections.

Bonner for Celtic, Miller for Dons, Levein/Stewart Hearts, Hateley/Ferguson for the Huns.

Yogi is ok but always feel like he’s touting himself for a managers job.

It used to be a must listen, high quality show back in the day with the likes of Bob Crampsey, David Begg, Murdo McLeod etc. I takes me to listen to it these days.

[Green Badger]

Last Thursday stuck in my throat. Celtic v Raith over Utd v Hibs. I mean seriously!

It’s pandering to the masses. Most conversations end up discussing the Ugly sisters.

I used to enjoy it when Craig Paterson and Tam McManus had a slot but you’ve not Rly got anyone with Hibs connections.

Bonner for Celtic, Miller for Dons, Levein/Stewart Hearts, Hateley/Ferguson for the Huns.

Yogi is ok but always feel like he’s touting himself for a managers job.

Maybe Celtic pay their electricians more money and therefore get priority on Sportsound. :greengrin

[evy]

I heard M Stewart on Saturday and agree he’s generally decent. However, on Saturday he called out Sky for only covering Celtic/Huns away games.

It was a bit hypocritical in my view. Last Thursday BBC Scotland opted to pick Celtic v Raith over Dundee Utd v hibs, Saturday the live game was Dundee v Rangers as opposed to Hearts v Livi, and Sunday it was Celtic v Dundee Utd over Hibs v St Johnstone.

The BBC are every bit as bad as Sky when favouring Glasgow clubs over the rest of Scottish football but Mikey Stewart conveniently doesn’t mention that.

Thought Sunday's televised game was St Mirren v Aberdeen?

[loanheadhibby]

Thought Sunday's televised game was St Mirren v Aberdeen?

It was but Michael Stewarts general comment is that our game will never grow as Sky continually cover all Celtic/Huns away games and since Sky are only permitted to visit a stadium 4 times a season, it limits their coverage of other games.

If Sky go to ER 4 times a season for 2 derbies and a Celtic & Rangers game, it means that Sky can't cover Hibs V Dons, Hibs v Dundee utd etc. So Sky viewers only ever getting to see Celtic V Rangers most weekends.

I should add that this was in the context that Ron Gordon wants to grow the game in Scotland (as well as growing Hibs). Mikey Stewarts point was that it will never grow whilst it is truncated to rest of world only seeing the ugly sisters post weeks.

[evy]

It was but Michael Stewarts general comment is that our game will never grow as Sky continually cover all Celtic/Huns away games and since Sky are only permitted to visit a stadium 4 times a season, it limits their coverage of other games.

If Sky go to ER 4 times a season for 2 derbies and a Celtic & Rangers game, it means that Sky can't cover Hibs V Dons, Hibs v Dundee utd etc. So Sky viewers only ever getting to see Celtic V Rangers most weekends.

I should add that this was in the context that Ron Gordon wants to grow the game in Scotland (as well as growing Hibs). Mikey Stewarts point was that it will never grow whilst it is truncated to rest of world only seeing the ugly sisters post weeks.

Ah okay, got you! :thumbsup:

[wookie70]

It was but Michael Stewarts general comment is that our game will never grow as Sky continually cover all Celtic/Huns away games and since Sky are only permitted to visit a stadium 4 times a season, it limits their coverage of other games.

If Sky go to ER 4 times a season for 2 derbies and a Celtic & Rangers game, it means that Sky can't cover Hibs V Dons, Hibs v Dundee utd etc. So Sky viewers only ever getting to see Celtic V Rangers most weekends.

I should add that this was in the context that Ron Gordon wants to grow the game in Scotland (as well as growing Hibs). Mikey Stewarts point was that it will never grow whilst it is truncated to rest of world only seeing the ugly sisters post weeks.

I thought Stewart spoke well about that. It is absolutely ridiculous that the The Thes and Celtc fans can pretty much watch every away game on TV. I agreed with his thinking that, particularly late in the season, games should be chosen that will promote the product. I think Ron is going at this from a USA perspective where they try and grow the sport not focus on growing the best sides and indeed their whole recruitment of new players is done so that there is some equalisation to the playing squads which means different winners and more interest.

[Allez Hibs]

I thought Stewart spoke well about that. It is absolutely ridiculous that the The Thes and Celtc fans can pretty much watch every away game on TV. I agreed with his thinking that, particularly late in the season, games should be chosen that will promote the product. I think Ron is going at this from a USA perspective where they try and grow the sport not focus on growing the best sides and indeed their whole recruitment of new players is done so that there is some equalisation to the playing squads which means different winners and more interest.Yes, exactly this. Just look at the NFL, it is a totally socialist league model they have so it will always be competitive.

How the TV games are picked is very interesting too with CBS generally showing AFC away games, FOX NFC away games with these networks showing the national big game late on Sunday, with NBC and ESPN able to choose the games of the week essentially and then NBC able to flex their choice to a better game depending on scenarios.

The league has a model that guarantees it will remain competitive, whilst the TV deals fund it, the TV companies have the choice of games to show.

In Scotland everything remains fixed and can't be changed, not least by the absurd 11-1 voting model.

[wookie70]

Yes, exactly this. Just look at the NFL, it is a totally socialist league model they have so it will always be competitive.

How the TV games are picked is very interesting too with CBS generally showing AFC away games, FOX NFC away games with these networks showing the national big game late on Sunday, with NBC and ESPN able to choose the games of the week essentially and then NBC able to flex their choice to a better game depending on scenarios.

The league has a model that guarantees it will remain competitive, whilst the TV deals fund it, the TV companies have the choice of games to show.

In Scotland everything remains fixed and can't be changed, not least by the absurd 11-1 voting model.

From what I remember that 11-1 rule could have changed but Aberdeen voted against as they happened to be in second place at the time. So we had 10 clubs out of 12 wanting change and because of a ridiculous rule brought in solely, imo, to safeguard the interest of the Uglies the vote was lost. I'm old fashioned so I do like that we have so many teams with such rich history. However, you only have to look at how some junior clubs have grown to know that in time this will change and getting a model where clubs that are trying to increase support and improve have a good chance and being rewarded. The one thing I think America has wrong is the closed shop but in some ways that is why they can vote for the good of the game as they are safe in the knowledge they are in the exclusive club and will benefit equally with other franchises. I think there have been some additions to the NFL over the years so there is some flexibility but I would want a bit more opportunity for teams outside the chosen few(if that is where this is heading)

[JimBHibees]

I thought Stewart spoke well about that. It is absolutely ridiculous that the The Thes and Celtc fans can pretty much watch every away game on TV. I agreed with his thinking that, particularly late in the season, games should be chosen that will promote the product. I think Ron is going at this from a USA perspective where they try and grow the sport not focus on growing the best sides and indeed their whole recruitment of new players is done so that there is some equalisation to the playing squads which means different winners and more interest.

It is ridiculous because it promotes only two teams and also probably more importantly is likely to reduce the actual crowd at the game which will impact the home club. If Rangers and Celtic home games were shown more their crowds would go down also.

[matty_f]

That's a fair point, I think I saw someone else mention BBC stating they have to remain impartial on five live. Mark Chapman is always saying they have to remain impartial when he's on five live before they discuss something or head somewhere.

Why is that not the case on BBC Radio Scotland? I heard Richard Gordon say something which was a clear breach of impartiality. And then you have their favourites always discussing the Old Firm. It needs to change.
They have to be politically impartial. Impartiality rules don’t apply to football teams.

[Allez Hibs]

They have to be politically impartial. Impartiality rules don’t apply to football teams.Surely impartiality rules apply to everything for the BBC. Can't see it applying to one thing and not the other tbh.

[WhileTheChief..]

Surely impartiality rules apply to everything for the BBC. Can't see it applying to one thing and not the other tbh.

Why?

If Scotland are playing Russia in a qualifier, you want our commentators and pundits to remain impartial? Why not just bring in some Russian dudes to do the job alongside just to make everything even?!

Bollocks to that.

What’s wrong with Richard Gordon bigging up his team a bit, he’s a football fan. I’d far rather that than a grey suit who just talked cliches to try and avoid offending anyone.

We’re adults. Surely we can all cope with hearing things about other clubs without greeting our eyes out?

I know there’s a few on here that get really upset by Sportsound on a weekly basis but the vast majority of us get by just fine.

[Allez Hibs]

Why?

If Scotland are playing Russia in a qualifier, you want our commentators and pundits to remain impartial? Why not just bring in some Russian dudes to do the job alongside just to make everything even?!

Bollocks to that.

What’s wrong with Richard Gordon bigging up his team a bit, he’s a football fan. I’d far rather that than a grey suit who just talked cliches to try and avoid offending anyone.

We’re adults. Surely we can all cope with hearing things about other clubs without greeting our eyes out?

I know there’s a few on here that get really upset by Sportsound on a weekly basis but the vast majority of us get by just fine.BBC Radio Five Live manage to do it just fine.

[Kato]

Why?

If Scotland are playing Russia in a qualifier, you want our commentators and pundits to remain impartial? Why not just bring in some Russian dudes to do the job alongside just to make everything even?!

Bollocks to that.

What’s wrong with Richard Gordon bigging up his team a bit, he’s a football fan. I’d far rather that than a grey suit who just talked cliches to try and avoid offending anyone.

We’re adults. Surely we can all cope with hearing things about other clubs without greeting our eyes out?

I know there’s a few on here that get really upset by Sportsound on a weekly basis but the vast majority of us get by just fine.Not a problem with pundits rooting for their club. It's when they do other clubs down, with no reason or for a reason they ignore when it's their club. They come across as petty and bias. Hard to juggle for some and its beyond the staff at Sportsound.

Using the National teams fixtures as an example is just strawman daft.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk