Derby county to go into administration

[BILLYHIBS]

Breaking News

Championship side Derby County to go into administration amid their growing financial problems

The English Football League confirmed they would face a 12 point deduction

In a statement the Rams said Covid-19 had had a severe impact on revenue but had no choice to appoint administrators to protect the club

BBC Sport

[CMurdoch]

Breaking News Championship side Derby County to go into administration amid their growing financial problems The English Football League confirmed they would face a 12 point deduction In a statement the Rams said Covid-19 had had a severe impact on revenue but had no choice to appoint administrators to protect the clubBBC Sport

All their money has been going to Fatty Rooney.
Idiotic signing.

[CMurdoch]

Potential buyers of Derby County are walking away after discovering debts and future liabilities of more than £60million - including £8m owed to former boss Phillip Cocu and his two assistants. An ‘eye watering’ HMRC bill north of £20m, as well as the £2.3m compensation payment to former captain Richard Keogh and a loan of £17.5m plus rolling interest with MSD Holdings, which is guaranteed against Pride Park.Would-be buyers of the Championship club are abandoning talks when calculating they will have to find more than £60m between now and next summer, a figure consisting of debt and future liabilities in excess of expected revenue.

[HibbyKeith]

All their money has been going to Fatty Rooney.
Idiotic signing.

Not sure how accurate but a quick google suggests hes on 90k a week as their manager. Bonkers money!

[Lancs Harp]

Derby's financial issues began long long before Rooney got involved with the Club. Barking up the wrong tree putting any blame at Rooneys door.

[CMurdoch]

Not sure how accurate but a quick google suggests hes on 90k a week as their manager. Bonkers money!I take it that will be the 1st move for the administrators and would instantly save them £400k a month!

[CMurdoch]

Derby's financial issues began long long before Rooney got involved with the Club. Barking up the wrong tree putting any blame at Rooneys door.Not his fault at all.Simply indicative of the madness of the club owners and administrators.

[Lancs Harp]

Not his fault at all.Simply indicative of the madness of the club owners and administrators.

True and I would agree, appointing Rooney in the first place was a huge risk and with hindsight a big mistake but thats not necessarily Rooneys fault.

Derby are a decent Club with a good support, they wont go under, a few seasons of bad medicine maybe but they will be back.

[lord bunberry]

Derby's financial issues began long long before Rooney got involved with the Club. Barking up the wrong tree putting any blame at Rooneys door.
Absolutely, they were throwing money around long before Rooney arrived. They were paying Lampard a fortune and backing him with funds to sign players. The owner is absolutely minted, but he’s another in a long line of rich men who think they can buy their way into the premiership and when it doesn’t happen they cut and run and leave the club they ran into the ground to pick up the pieces of their failed vanity project.

[CMurdoch]

True and I would agree, appointing Rooney in the first place was a huge risk and with hindsight a big mistake but thats not necessarily Rooneys fault.Derby are a decent Club with a good support, they wont go under, a few seasons of bad medicine maybe but they will be back.They should just accept the points deductions and sanction now so they can get a fresh start in Div 1 next season. The administrators will do the rest

[stu in nottingham]

Derby County have only themselves to blame and I've little sympathy with them. Three of four seasons ago they were reportedly hemorraghing around £3m a month. The owner, Mel Morris, sold Pride Park if I recall correctly for £80m - to a company also owned by himself - then leased it back. There were claims that the stadium was purposely overvalued in a bid to get around the Financial Fairplay Rules. Not sure how that one ended up but it was distinctly dodgy.

A problem for the club I think is that they see themselves - a little like Forest it has to be said - as a 'sleeping giant' who really belong in the EPL. Their last season in the EPL was around 2007/8 and I think this attitude does not serve the club well.

They are a poorly run club in my view. Witness the fanfare for Rooney coming in. The jumped into bed with gambling company 32Red to finance a ridiculous package for him to go to Pride Park as a player-manager. Rooney played around 30 games then decided to quit playing as he found carrying out both roles too much. The only problem is that the main worth of Rooney was actually on the pitch. He is a rookie manager being paid a top manager's wages. He's not the main reason for Derby's downfall though, that began years ago. Believe that with the club's other misdemeanours it's said they have the potential for a maximum 21-point penalty.

[hibbydog]

Potential buyers of Derby County are walking away after discovering debts and future liabilities of more than £60million - including £8m owed to former boss Phillip Cocu and his two assistants. An ‘eye watering’ HMRC bill north of £20m, as well as the £2.3m compensation payment to former captain Richard Keogh and a loan of £17.5m plus rolling interest with MSD Holdings, which is guaranteed against Pride Park.Would-be buyers of the Championship club are abandoning talks when calculating they will have to find more than £60m between now and next summer, a figure consisting of debt and future liabilities in excess of expected revenue.


What a mess.

Question though - since the normal route out of administration involves a creditors voluntary agreement, and the inland revenue don’t do these at all (eg Sevco), doesn’t this mean they have to pay that £20m or go bust?

[davy67 +]

They've been a complete basket case of a club for a number of years now who fiddled their way around the FPP rules . They where only saved from relegation last season by the fact that Sheffield Wednesday where in a bigger mess than themselves . With a 12 point deduction on the way and possibly another 12 ( 3 of which are suspended ) they're certain to go down I'd say . Though times ahead , it's the fans I feel sorry for .

[davy67 +]

​
Not sure how accurate but a quick google suggests hes on 90k a week as their manager. Bonkers money!

Since 2018 their wage bill has trebled from £16 million to £48 million , absolutely crazy money for that level of football. Desperate to reach the promised land of the Premier League and it's riches

[theonlywayisup]

Surely it's now time for a cap to be placed on salaries and transfers. It's ridiculous the amount of money being spent on some daft laddies running around kicking a football.

[BILLYHIBS]

Serves them right for stealing Efe away on inflated wages and Shinnie from Aberdeen

Reminds me of the ‘Big Team’ across the City :greengrin

[davy67 +]

Surely it's now time for a cap to be placed on salaries and transfers. It's ridiculous the amount of money being spent on some daft laddies running around kicking a football.

I though there was a cap in place in the lower leagues in England, I'm sure it was 60% of turnover, that's what Derby's original fine and points deduction was about as they tried to circumvent the FPP rules

[Gaffer1875]

Shinnie to Hibs in January?


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[mjhibby]

Supporters are always screaming for their boards to have ambition. McCulloch saying yesterday hearts should aim to challenge the bigot bros only means spending money which will inevitablyrun out and the supporters carrying the can. Be careful what you wish for. After what we went through in 91 I'll never take our club for granted and have been so grateful to stf and Ron for being great custodians. Yes I'd have liked maybe one more trophy but we have an excellent team on our budget and now look a very good team to watch. Kickback even had fans say were not a bad team at all. I'm sure it wont be long till another team goes into admin and I'm actually hugely surprised there has not been many more due to covid.
GGTTH.

[mjhibby]

This sleeping giant nonsense needs to stop. How far back do you go.All it does is lead to a sense of entitlement and inevitably hitting the rocks. You are as good as your last season. That will be third for us.😀

[Since452]

Not sure how accurate but a quick google suggests hes on 90k a week as their manager. Bonkers money!

He's probably about 90kg too. Not overly fat.

[MWHIBBIES]

Nigel Clough spent years getting by with them, cutting wages, getting the debts down. Its a bit sad because they are a huge club, but they've been run terribly for a decade now. Big push for a promotion than never came.

[loanheadhibby]

​

Since 2018 their wage bill has trebled from £16 million to £48 million , absolutely crazy money for that level of football. Desperate to reach the promised land of the Premier League and it's riches

And yet have they got any household name players? I could barely tell you their starting eleven.

And how come HMRC let all these clubs get in such debt with them? Surely they have a limit of say £1million debt and then start taking action? It seems football clubs can rack up massive debts and no one in authority does anything.

[hibsbollah]

As somebody said already, the only surprising thing is there hasn’t been more clubs in the same boat post Covid. I wonder if the clubs were financially protected by the furlough scheme (and the abuse of it), reduced transfer activity and cutting cloth, or if there’s going to be a flood of these kind of stories for clubs who still rely on gate receipts not merch or tv deals as their main source of income :dunno:

[Pretty Boy]

And yet have they got any household name players? I could barely tell you their starting eleven.

And how come HMRC let all these clubs get in such debt with them? Surely they have a limit of say £1million debt and then start taking action? It seems football clubs can rack up massive debts and no one in authority does anything.

I always wonder that about HMRC debts.

I underpaid tax one year by less than £1000, and part of that was due to their error. They absolutely hounded me and adjusted my tax code within weeks until the shortfall was repaid.

I get it's different for companies turning over millions and a worker earning what I do but allowing businesses to run up debts of tens of millions seems bonkers and more than a bit unfair.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

When it comes to the English league just now, I think the concept of big clubs or sleeping giants is almost becoming a myth. It is a mix of wealthy backers and business accumen that counts. Bournemouth's extended stay in the top flight when compared to Sunderland floundering in the lower reaches is maybe the best example.

[Highwayman]

Their great rivals Nottingham Forest can’t be gloating too much over Derby’s problems.

Because they’re not doing too well themselves currently.

[Since452]

When it comes to the English league just now, I think the concept of big clubs or sleeping giants is almost becoming a myth. It is a mix of wealthy backers and business accumen that counts. Bournemouth's extended stay in the top flight when compared to Sunderland floundering in the lower reaches is maybe the best example.

Hate the term sleeping giant. If you were successful 40 years ago and done nothing since floundering around the lower leagues you aren't a sleeping giant you just aren't very good. Brentford and Southampton fans must piss themselves laughing at the term sleeping giant.

[hibsbollah]

Hate the term sleeping giant. If you were successful 40 years ago and done nothing since floundering around the lower leagues you aren't a sleeping giant you just aren't very good. Bournemouth and Southampton fans must piss themselves laughing at the term sleeping giant.

I think to be a sleeping giant you need to have a big support, or at least an historically big support and a big stadium. So you have a chance to bring back the glory days by gate receipts not billionaire owners. So Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland teams like that definitely fall into a different category to teams with less heritage.

[mjhibby]

Hate the term sleeping giant. If you were successful 40 years ago and done nothing since floundering around the lower leagues you aren't a sleeping giant you just aren't very good. Brentford and Southampton fans must piss themselves laughing at the term sleeping giant.

Indeed. Two well run clubs. Maybe if derby and notts forest invested in youth instead of splashing ridiculous amounts around they wouldn't be in this mess. Gems are out there. Schmeichel to Falkirk,maddison to aberdeen etc could have got them near the promised land. The value of a good recruitment team cant be over estimated.

[loanheadhibby]

I always wonder that about HMRC debts.

I underpaid tax one year by less than £1000, and part of that was due to their error. They absolutely hounded me and adjusted my tax code within weeks until the shortfall was repaid.

I get it's different for companies turning over millions and a worker earning what I do but allowing businesses to run up debts of tens of millions seems bonkers and more than a bit unfair.

Same situation. My Mrs was paye, underpaid by £100 and they were all over us like a rash! They got a debt company involved and it turned out we have overpaid tax! Not even an apology for weeks of chasing.

Same as you, I get that big businesses can run up debt but are HMRC never going to learn !

[mjhibby]

And yet have they got any household name players? I could barely tell you their starting eleven.

And how come HMRC let all these clubs get in such debt with them? Surely they have a limit of say £1million debt and then start taking action? It seems football clubs can rack up massive debts and no one in authority does anything.

Indeed. They wouldn't let most other businesses do it.

[CMurdoch]

​

Since 2018 their wage bill has trebled from £16 million to £48 million , absolutely crazy money for that level of football. Desperate to reach the promised land of the Premier League and it's riches

That alone takes care of the debt.
Business men should carry a govt health hazard.
A combination of mad ambition and forever scheming cheat.
Look at Barcelona etc, all entitlement and slight of hand, hiding behind a smoke screen created by accountants and financiers and FFP kept at bay by solicitors and litigation.

[judas]

Derby's financial issues began long long before Rooney got involved with the Club. Barking up the wrong tree putting any blame at Rooneys door.

I think you are correct there.

I wouldn't put Rooney in charge of putting the kettle on, but the Derby board saw fit to give him £90k a week?

Looks like another piece of poor decision making.

Luckily, as we have seen with Hearts, administration isn't the end, rather it can be a new beginning.

The morally and ethically corrupt Hearts / Gretna / Livingston model appears to have failed for Derby.

I think the pressure on the club from the success of their biggest rival Leicester may have been a factor.

[CMurdoch]

Supporters are always screaming for their boards to have ambition. McCulloch saying yesterday hearts should aim to challenge the bigot bros only means spending money which will inevitablyrun out and the supporters carrying the can. Be careful what you wish for. After what we went through in 91 I'll never take our club for granted and have been so grateful to stf and Ron for being great custodians. Yes I'd have liked maybe one more trophy but we have an excellent team on our budget and now look a very good team to watch. Kickback even had fans say were not a bad team at all. I'm sure it wont be long till another team goes into admin and I'm actually hugely surprised there has not been many more due to covid.
GGTTH.

No matter what McCulloch or anyone says on here we can't challenge the Old Firm over a season. That also goes for Hearts and more so Aberdeen. 50,000 season ticket holders against 12,000 is the key.
However, Hibs and Hearts can now improve and should both go up a level next season if they can continue to recruit well with minimum waste and flip a few players for good money. A couple more years of improvement could see us close the gap near enough to be a threat and at least punch the OF on the nose regularly.
Ambition is great but to do it with trickery and debt as Derby have done will almost inevitably end up in a day of reckoning.

[Billy Whizz]

Are footballers in England protected, when a club goes into admin?

[Pagan Hibernia]

Clough’s two clubs in complete disarray. This makes me sad.

[Juniper Greens]

Could be argued that John McGinn caused this?

[stu in nottingham]

I think the pressure on the club from the success of their biggest rival Leicester may have been a factor.

Leicester have of course been much the most successful East Midlands club in recent years but make no mistake, Forest are Derby's biggest rivals and always will be. Ditto with Forest, before Leicester's recent success they always saw Forest as their derby rivals. Not reciprocated by Forest in general though. Again, Derby are their deadly rivals.

[Irish_Steve]

Although it probably means little now, I thought Rooney's wages were paid by 32Red who were sponsoring the Rams.

And although I'm no fan of the clubs Rooney played for, I wish I was as "fat" as him - puerile comment

[calumhibee1]

I think to be a sleeping giant you need to have a big support, or at least an historically big support and a big stadium. So you have a chance to bring back the glory days by gate receipts not billionaire owners. So Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland teams like that definitely fall into a different category to teams with less heritage.

Gate receipts and the like make up so little of EPL teams income though that it doesn’t really have any impact on how good you are. The difference between a top team like say Man City with 55k seats and Newcastle with 52k seats is negligible but on pitch performance, sponsorships and billionaire owners make the difference really. Newcastle could have 150k seats sold out every week but it would only give them an extra £50m a season. There would still be a £250m gap to bridge with Man City.

Football at the top level now doesn’t really care for history or how big your fanbase is, the best teams have become global mega businesses who would still be at a similar level if they played behind closed doors forever more.

[hibsbollah]

Gate receipts and the like make up so little of EPL teams income though that it doesn’t really have any impact on how good you are. The difference between a top team like say Man City with 55k seats and Newcastle with 52k seats is negligible but on pitch performance, sponsorships and billionaire owners make the difference really. Newcastle could have 150k seats sold out every week but it would only give them an extra £50m a season. There would still be a £250m gap to bridge with Man City.

Football at the top level now doesn’t really care for history or how big your fanbase is, the best teams have become global mega businesses who would still be at a similar level if they played behind closed doors forever more.

At the top level I agree, but the teams I mentioned above are in the championship and div 1 and still take a high proportion of their their income through gate receipts. That’s the sleeping giant reference. The majority of English clubs are still in this position. That only changes when you spend a season in the top flight, get the parachute payments and start becoming a global ‘brand’ (eugh)instead of a community resource.

[stu in nottingham]

Although it probably means little now, I thought Rooney's wages were paid by 32Red who were sponsoring the Rams.


You're right they were. They also struck a deal for Rooney to wear the number 32 on his back to promote 32Red, a pretty reprehensible move by the player, 32Red and Derby in my humble opinion. There was a row when it happened with it being seen as exploiting a loophole in the regulations that prevented children from being targeted by betting firms, including by subliminal means for some kids. The number didn't appear on replica children's shirts due to regulations but they could always have 32 printed on the back of their kit.

[hibsbollah]

You're right they were. They also struck a deal for Rooney to wear the number 32 on his back to promote 32Red, a pretty reprehensible move by the player, 32Red and Derby in my humble opinion. There was a row when it happened with it being seen as exploiting a loophole in the regulations that prevented children from being targeted by betting firms, including by subliminal means for some kids. The number didn't appear on replica children's shirts due to regulations but they could always have 32 printed on the back of their kit.

That’s crazy. The betting companies are all over football like a rash these days. Such a change in the last 15 years or so

[stu in nottingham]

That’s crazy. The betting companies are all over football like a rash these days. Such a change in the last 15 years or so

A curious thing is that when you talk to people who recognise they have a gambling problem, specifically on football, they will invariably say that gambling advertising in the game 'doesn't affect them'. The pragmatist in me says that gambling companies would not pay the vast fortunes on football advertising that they do if it wasn't effective. I can personally bring to mind some various shirt advertising of different teams from forty years ago. That's one powerful and enduring trigger.

[EI255]

Simon Groom will be sitting in the pub getting p15hed

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[EI255]

This sleeping giant nonsense needs to stop. How far back do you go.All it does is lead to a sense of entitlement and inevitably hitting the rocks. You are as good as your last season. That will be third for us.[emoji3]It'll stop when our generation ends. Kids of today will only remember them as an average second flight team, at best. They are rank and wouldn't be missed.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

It'll stop when our generation ends. Kids of today will only remember them as an average second flight team, at best. They are rank and wouldn't be missed.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Strange thing to say. Not missed by whom? Derby fans or even people who live in Derby will most definitely miss them, even just as an employer and a representative of the town and a link to its history :dunno:

[MWHIBBIES]

Could be argued that John McGinn caused this?

The Bobby Zamora one was probably worse.. Derby were already in trouble by the time McGinn beat them. The 2013? One against QPR, where zamora scored a 90th minute winner with qprs only shot was a real nightmare for them.

[ScottB]

A curious thing is that when you talk to people who recognise they have a gambling problem, specifically on football, they will invariably say that gambling advertising in the game 'doesn't affect them'. The pragmatist in me says that gambling companies would not pay the vast fortunes on football advertising that they do if it wasn't effective. I can personally bring to mind some various shirt advertising of different teams from forty years ago. That's one powerful and enduring trigger.

People insisting advertising doesn’t work on them while it works on everyone is a part of why it works on everyone.

As you say, these companies aren’t spending the money for nothing…

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Simon Groom will be sitting in the pub getting p15hed

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I remember him on Blue Peter asking Sir Bobby Robson to pick Bobby Davison for England when Derby were in the old Third Division.

[EI255]

Strange thing to say. Not missed by whom? Derby fans or even people who live in Derby will most definitely miss them, even just as an employer and a representative of the town and a link to its history :dunno:I'll fling that around and ask, would the people of Derby have bothered about us had Fatso Mercer got his way? Think we know the answer.

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[CentreLine]

Convenient way to shed debt and re-emerge as the same club. Not technically possible in Scotland of course if it accelerates to liquidation (although some would have us believe otherwise) but doesn’t seem to be an issue down south

[NAE NOOKIE]

No doubt someone will dive in and save Derby, they are big enough to be an attractive prospect for the next super rich person or country.

Not so long ago the possibility of the demise of a club of that size could have been welcomed as the long awaited wake up call football badly needs, but when you look at the greed driven attempt to set up a European super league by the richest clubs in the game you really have to wonder if enough of the people who matter so far as controlling the money in football would care at this point.

I don't know if it's a factor with Derby, but one thing that needs to stop is wealthy individuals buying clubs loaning them their money and then when things go tits up walking away leaving the club with a massive debt on its books payable to the former owner, IE them. There has to be penalties that stop these folk just walking away and far from taking responsibility for the mess they have gotten the club into being nothing more than one of 'their' clubs many creditors.

[NAE NOOKIE]

On the subject of Pride Park. One thing I can never understand is the value of places like that apart from the land they stand on. If there is no football club in Derby what's the point of anybody owning the stadium, it becomes nothing more than a gigantic white elephant. Not unlike the Ricoh Arena in Coventry, when the owners tried to squeeze more rent out of Coventry City they simply moved out, begging the question who else would be available to become tenants or want to buy the place? Makes no sense to me.