Ron Gordon Interview with Mark Chapman & The Athletic

[04Sauzee]

Just listened to this , found it a great listen and thought it was worth sharing

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5GGlmsHcRrIrtypB3b46TX?si=zZAzNVEsTwyQ5o8BYWYZSA&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

[Greencore]

Was not expecting the CIA stuff 😂 very good interview. Very hard to dislike Ron when he speaks so much sense, could listen to him all day sounds very genuine and humble

[Sioux]

Excellent. RG is a guy that knows what needs to be done, and how to get there. Great insight to his thinking and approach.

[Pagan Hibernia]

He will improve this club in every way while making sure it is sustainable.

the post Tom Farmer era and the inevitable succession had me worried for a number of years... but we’ve got a good one

[JXM73]

Sounds like an intelligent donald trump..

[Green Reaper]

Very interesting listen. Ron speaks so well about our club and is a great ambassador for us. His enthusiasm is infectious and I can only imagine how good that is and feels for all the Hibs staff.

[matty_f]

Enjoyed that, I think we’re in great hands, to be honest. The club have stepped up a gear or two since he arrived and I can see that improving still

[Heisenberg]

Good interview, thanks for sharing. He’s going to get some heat for the “too many clubs in scotland” stuff. Sure Budge said similar and got ripped apart.

[Green Reaper]

Enjoyed that, I think we’re in great hands, to be honest. The club have stepped up a gear or two since he arrived and I can see that improving still

When are you getting him on Longbangers Matty 😁

[04Sauzee]

Good interview, thanks for sharing. He’s going to get some heat for the “too many clubs in scotland” stuff. Sure Budge said similar and got ripped apart.

He already has on social media but that's from folk not really listening to the podcast and just reading the 'too many clubs' statement. From listening to the podcast it didn't look like he was trying to starve any of the so called smaller clubs of any money?

[hibsbollah]

‘Hibs is an easy club to fall in love with’.
Well no arguments there.

[EdinburghHibern]

Ron and Hibs could get slaughtered by the media and opposition fans with what he has said here- the scottish football pyramid has too many teams? Very disrespectful to not only smaller established clubs like Cowdenbeath Alloa,Montrose Brechin etc but also very disrespectful to smaller clubs that have come up the pyramid like Kelty,Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City.

For me the root of the issue is the top league clubs bottling it to expand the league to 16-18 teams not only during the Sevco fiasco but also during covid.

[Alex Trager]

Another good interview. Nothing new here really, except his CIA past and the pyramid stuff

[04Sauzee]

Ron and Hibs could get slaughtered by the media and opposition fans with what he has said here- the scottish football pyramid has too many teams? Very disrespectful to not only smaller established teams like Cowdenbeath Alloa,Montrose Brechin etc but also very disrespectful to smaller clubs that have come up thr pyramid like Kelty,Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City.

For me the root of the issue is the top league clubs bottling it to expand the league to 16-18 teams not only during the Sevco fiasco but also during covid.

Did he say there wouldn't be a pyramid system?
I don't think he's wanting to stop these clubs getting the money they are currently getting . I think although I could be wrong he's trying to say it's easier to market a strong league with fewer clubs and more money would come into the game. The money would still trickle down the league's as it currently does but they would actually probably get more money because there is more money coming into the game?

I could be way off the mark though.

[Not In The Know]

Great interview.

This highlights how little attention the MSM pay to Hibs. Rons the real deal and all they can do is blow smoke up the old firm, Budgie and McCormacks arse.

[Sioux]

Ron and Hibs could get slaughtered by the media and opposition fans with what he has said here- the scottish football pyramid has too many teams? Very disrespectful to not only smaller established clubs like Cowdenbeath Alloa,Montrose Brechin etc but also very disrespectful to smaller clubs that have come up the pyramid like Kelty,Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City.

For me the root of the issue is the top league clubs bottling it to expand the league to 16-18 teams not only during the Sevco fiasco but also during covid.

So what if he gets slaughtered. There's no doubt in my mind that Scottish football is held back because of the need to cater for clubs that are part-time. The status quo was perhaps relevant in the 1960s, but not now, where the owners and officials have totally different priorities to the full time professional outfits.

The SPFL should consist of full time clubs, the others should play in leagues with clubs of a similar standard. A percentage of the income of the SPFL can be directed to an 'association board' to decide amongst themselves as to how that money should be distributed.

A top league of 16-18 clubs makes no difference to the view, held by many for many years, that there are too many clubs in the SPFL.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Did he say there wouldn't be a pyramid system?
I don't think he's wanting to stop these clubs getting the money they are currently getting . I think although I could be wrong he's trying to say it's easier to market a strong league with fewer clubs and more money would come into the game. The money would still trickle down the league's as it currently does but they would actually probably get more money because there is more money coming into the game?

I could be way off the mark though.

For me it's not necessarily too many clubs but not enough clubs with growth potential.
To have a strong league you need a decent amount of strong or potentially strong clubs. We only have a handful that fit into that category. After that it just falls away and there's really not much you can do about it.

Due to our population and its confinement to the central belt and the total dominance through culture/tradition/media exposure of just two clubs then unfortunately I dont think its possible for Scotland to have a strong league of say 8 to 10 decent clubs.

You can spread the wealth all you like and change business models to create and give Mothetwell for example a more competitive team and bridge the gap on Celtic but the facts remain that Fir Park is only 10 or 12 miles from Parkhead and Celtic is a massive cultural institution in that part of the world. Motherwell will still be playing to smallish crowds and the perception of 'Mickey mouse' wont change in the eyes of sponsors, Skysports ect.

[CMac1988]

Did he say there wouldn't be a pyramid system?
I don't think he's wanting to stop these clubs getting the money they are currently getting . I think although I could be wrong he's trying to say it's easier to market a strong league with fewer clubs and more money would come into the game. The money would still trickle down the league's as it currently does but they would actually probably get more money because there is more money coming into the game?

I could be way off the mark though.

That's how I interpreted it.

Easier to think of it as going back to two governing bodies with one governing the top 2 leagues (since he mentions full time teams) and another the rest. Pyramid is still in place but that top body would have more control and flexibility when it comes to generating income as it will focus on less clubs. The flip side of course is if it doesn't generate any additional income you're further splitting what's there and that's when it can have a negative effect on the lower body and its teams.

Interesting debate.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Just listened to this , found it a great listen and thought it was worth sharing

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5GGlmsHcRrIrtypB3b46TX?si=zZAzNVEsTwyQ5o8BYWYZSA&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

Here is the Apple link for iPhone users

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-athletic-football-podcast/id1488521447?i=1000533153052

[.Sean.]

Good interview, thanks for sharing. He’s going to get some heat for the “too many clubs in scotland” stuff. Sure Budge said similar and got ripped apart.
Is he wrong though? A lot of clubs in league 1 and league 2 are borderline social clubs with a football team and 300 fans yet they get their say on league matters involving full time professional clubs in the top division.

[bingo70]

Is he wrong though? A lot of clubs in league 1 and league 2 are borderline social clubs with a football team and 300 fans yet they get their say on league matters involving full time professional clubs in the top division.

Spot on.

He is probably looking at the MLS that has 24 teams from the USA and then looks at Scotland that has 42 all getting a say.

Obviously there’s levels below the MLS but I’d imagine their influence in the game is reflected in that they are a lower standing team.

[Andy74]

Is he wrong though? A lot of clubs in league 1 and league 2 are borderline social clubs with a football team and 300 fans yet they get their say on league matters involving full time professional clubs in the top division.

Yep, exactly this. Not something he’d be used to seeing in US professional sports. High School teams have a higher standing there than probably most of our professional level teams.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is he wrong though? A lot of clubs in league 1 and league 2 are borderline social clubs with a football team and 300 fans yet they get their say on league matters involving full time professional clubs in the top division.

Exactly.

[nonshinyfinish]

Good interview, thanks for sharing. He’s going to get some heat for the “too many clubs in scotland” stuff. Sure Budge said similar and got ripped apart.

I think Budge only got ripped apart when, having previously said that the Scottish leagues should have about half the number of teams, she was banging the drum for expansion to 44 or 46 or 128 or whatever was necessary to stop Hearts going down… all while having the brass neck to accuse other clubs of self-interest.

I think it's probably true that there are too many clubs in the leagues, the tricky question is what you do about it. Obviously you can't just say "right, Cowdenbeath don't exist anymore, piss off and support someone else". Some kind of reorganisation (perhaps along full-time/part-time lines as suggested above) must be workable though.

[JimBHibees]

Excellent listen great to hear his enthusiasm for the club. His back story is very interesting and obviously a very smart and successful guy. Think we are very fortunate to have him running our great club.

[JimBHibees]

Ron and Hibs could get slaughtered by the media and opposition fans with what he has said here- the scottish football pyramid has too many teams? Very disrespectful to not only smaller established clubs like Cowdenbeath Alloa,Montrose Brechin etc but also very disrespectful to smaller clubs that have come up the pyramid like Kelty,Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City.

For me the root of the issue is the top league clubs bottling it to expand the league to 16-18 teams not only during the Sevco fiasco but also during covid.

So that is your takeaway from his interview. Wow

[chippy]

For me it's not necessarily too many clubs but not enough clubs with growth potential.
To have a strong league you need a decent amount of strong or potentially strong clubs. We only have a handful that fit into that category. After that it just falls away and there's really not much you can do about it.

Due to our population and its confinement to the central belt and the total dominance through culture/tradition/media exposure of just two clubs then unfortunately I dont think its possible for Scotland to have a strong league of say 8 to 10 decent clubs.

You can spread the wealth all you like and change business models to create and give Mothetwell for example a more competitive team and bridge the gap on Celtic but the facts remain that Fir Park is only 10 or 12 miles from Parkhead and Celtic is a massive cultural institution in that part of the world. Motherwell will still be playing to smallish crowds and the perception of 'Mickey mouse' wont change in the eyes of sponsors, Skysports ect.

Doesn’t Saintees getting 10k sell outs for 2 European games counter your argument somewhat ?

[chippy]

So what if he gets slaughtered. There's no doubt in my mind that Scottish football is held back because of the need to cater for clubs that are part-time. The status quo was perhaps relevant in the 1960s, but not now, where the owners and officials have totally different priorities to the full time professional outfits.

The SPFL should consist of full time clubs, the others should play in leagues with clubs of a similar standard. A percentage of the income of the SPFL can be directed to an 'association board' to decide amongst themselves as to how that money should be distributed.

A top league of 16-18 clubs makes no difference to the view, held by many for many years, that there are too many clubs in the SPFL.

Generally agree with this. SPFL for full time clubs only. Bottom of 2nd tier has to get re elected as in the past. 24 -28 clubs for me. Could organise 12/12 or 14/14 or 16/12. All would have splits. The latter would be my preference.

[Greenworld]

Fair point from interviewer re our name Hibernian and how it does not mention Edinburgh.
Edinburgh Hibernian football club.
Doesn't sound that bad.
Great interview [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[chippy]

Fair point from interviewer re our name Hibernian and how it does not mention Edinburgh.
Edinburgh Hibernian football club.
Doesn't sound that bad.
Great interview [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Do not mess with the name of our club. It’s been tried in the past and failed.

[Greencore]

Do not mess with the name of our club. It’s been tried in the past and failed.

Has it? When

[jacomo]

So what if he gets slaughtered. There's no doubt in my mind that Scottish football is held back because of the need to cater for clubs that are part-time. The status quo was perhaps relevant in the 1960s, but not now, where the owners and officials have totally different priorities to the full time professional outfits.

The SPFL should consist of full time clubs, the others should play in leagues with clubs of a similar standard. A percentage of the income of the SPFL can be directed to an 'association board' to decide amongst themselves as to how that money should be distributed.

A top league of 16-18 clubs makes no difference to the view, held by many for many years, that there are too many clubs in the SPFL.


I think this is the right distinction.

It’s not for Ron, Budge or anyone else to say there are two many clubs in Scotland. Someone might decide to form a new club tomorrow and that is their right.

However, we can absolutely debate how many clubs should be in the SPFL. My personal view is that there should be two expanded national divisions (16 or 18 clubs each) with a regional set up below that.

[MikeyS]

Fair point from interviewer re our name Hibernian and how it does not mention Edinburgh.
Edinburgh Hibernian football club.
Doesn't sound that bad.
Great interview [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Most definitely wouldn't be up for adding Edinburgh in to the official name of the club

[WhileTheChief..]

The man is class. Agreed with everything said.

He's obviously not very impressed with the executive of the SPFL, so wouldn't be surprised if he felt it was time Neil Doncaster and Co were replaced.

Exciting times ahead.

[Since452]

It's easy to say 42 senior clubs is too much, which it is in reality. The problem lies with the history and tradition of these smaller clubs and what is right and what is wrong. I do agree with him though, and if we were starting from scratch then 24 senior clubs with a pyramid system under would be very logical. Unfortunately we've got around 150 years of baggage in Scottish football to contend with.

[nonshinyfinish]

Do not mess with the name of our club. It’s been tried in the past and failed.

Based on the interview, Ron agrees.

[LaMotta]

Fair point from interviewer re our name Hibernian and how it does not mention Edinburgh.
Edinburgh Hibernian football club.
Doesn't sound that bad.
Great interview [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

I think it would be a good thing. The famous Edinburgh Hibees. Edinburgh is a globally reknowned city and it would help raise the profile of the club. We'd still be known as Hibs, that wouldnt change.

I reckon we are probably in the minority on this though and it wouldnt go down well with most fans....

[Blaster]

It's easy to say 42 senior clubs is too much, which it is in reality. The problem lies with the history and tradition of these smaller clubs and what is right and what is wrong. I do agree with him though, and if we were starting from scratch then 24 senior clubs with a pyramid system under would be very logical. Unfortunately we've got around 150 years of baggage in Scottish football to contend with.

You would not be getting rid of the clubs. They’d still be in the pyramid to reach the SPFL. Gordon Strachan mentioned this years ago. How can you have part time clubs with almost the same voting rights and access as full time clubs.

Don’t know the numbers now but fairly recently England had 92 clubs in their main league set up. We had 42 with a tenth of their population. Clearly not right

[jacomo]

You would not be getting rid of the clubs. They’d still be in the pyramid to reach the SPFL. Gordon Strachan mentioned this years ago. How can you have part time clubs with almost the same voting rights and access as full time clubs.

Don’t know the numbers now but fairly recently England had 92 clubs in their main league set up. We had 42 with a tenth of their population. Clearly not right


:agree:

Just listened to the interview and Ron is absolutely not talking about the number of clubs, but about how big the league should be. Makes sense.

I’m no fan of Neil Doncaster but he’s an administrator, not a champion for Scottish football. He has actually handled all the issues with Hearts, Sevco etc very competently.

The biggest issue with Scottish football is the myopic attitude of certain clubs and the lack of vision and long term thinking from the SFA. The SPFL is just a membership organisation at the end of the day, which answers to the clubs.

[WhileTheChief..]

The problem lies with the history and tradition of these smaller clubs and what is right and what is wrong. .

The clubs carry on as they are, just not as part of the professional league set up.

They can set up their own governing body under the SFA the same as the SPFL did.

It's going to happen anyway, just the other way around.

There will be another split from the SPFL, with us and 11 others leaving and doing our own thing.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Do not mess with the name of our club. It’s been tried in the past and failed.

We would just become known as Edinburgh down south so that's a no from me. I mean no effort is ever made to distinguishe dundee from United. Both are just called dundee down there.

[gbhibby]

My dad did something in the 60s based on areas and populations. The issue is that some of the teams would have had to amalgamate who were the biggest of enemies. He also included junior teams and Highland league teams at the time who were getting much bigger crowds than many senior teams. I agree with Ron about too many teams. Wish I had kept his workings.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Doesn’t Saintees getting 10k sell outs for 2 European games counter your argument somewhat ?

But we know that with all the will in the world they could never came close to maintaining that level of support over a whole campaign nevermind long term. Outside a cup final they ain't getting 10K supports for games with Motherwell, us or even rantic

[Renfrew_Hibby]

My dad did something in the 60s based on areas and populations. The issue is that some of the teams would have had to amalgamate who were the biggest of enemies. He also included junior teams and Highland league teams at the time who were getting much bigger crowds than many senior teams. I agree with Ron about too many teams. Wish I had kept his workings.

I'm sure the us franchises are spaced out with approximately similar or a least large population bases. Alaska for example wouldn't get a nba franchise cos Anchorage isn't a big enough catchment area.
Green Bay is thee exception to this rule. But there's historical reasons for that.

[Peevemor]

Just listened to this , found it a great listen and thought it was worth sharing

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5GGlmsHcRrIrtypB3b46TX?si=zZAzNVEsTwyQ5o8BYWYZSA&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1A good find & listen. Thanks for the link.

[nonshinyfinish]

My dad did something in the 60s based on areas and populations. The issue is that some of the teams would have had to amalgamate who were the biggest of enemies. He also included junior teams and Highland league teams at the time who were getting much bigger crowds than many senior teams. I agree with Ron about too many teams. Wish I had kept his workings.

I don't think anyone is seriously talking about amalgamating clubs and rightly so.

[gbhibby]

I don't think anyone is seriously talking about amalgamating clubs and rightly so.
That was the issue with my dad's workings as from memory he had all the Fife clubs as one club and Falkirk Stirling Stenny as one club. St Mirren Clyde and Partick as one club.

[Sergio sledge]

I think this is the right distinction.

It’s not for Ron, Budge or anyone else to say there are two many clubs in Scotland. Someone might decide to form a new club tomorrow and that is their right.

However, we can absolutely debate how many clubs should be in the SPFL. My personal view is that there should be two expanded national divisions (16 or 18 clubs each) with a regional set up below that.Yup, most of the criticism online seems to be coming from people who've not listened to the interview or understood the clear distinction between "too many clubs" and "too many clubs in the SPFL".

He comes from a background of US sports where the franchises seem to have a better grasp of how important building up and growing the "league" is. Perhaps he sees reducing the teams in the SPFL as being a way of making change easier and making the league as a whole easier to market.

I think he's probably right, but I can't see it happening. Scottish football will never change.

[Cat Stanton]

A good find & listen. Thanks for the link.

Likewise.

I particularly liked the mention, early on, of "The Rangers"...

[Pagan Hibernia]

Do not mess with the name of our club. It’s been tried in the past and failed.

:agree:

we have one of the most wonderful, distinctive and unique* names in world football. Would be a travesty to change it in anyway.

*aye I know about the Maltese team

[Dalianwanda]

Really enjoyed that interview. Its great he has the bigger picture in mind not just with Hibs but also the league itself. Its hard not to get carried away with his enthusiasm & impressed with his ideas. Are there still Hibs fans out there that doubt him? Surely not.

[Eyrie]

I've long been in favour of having two leagues of twelve splitting into three leagues of eight, with a regionalised structure below that. Where is the sense in Annan and Elgin being in the same league and travelling to each other four times a season?

And it's very achievable - simply promote three from division one into the "championship", then regionalise divisions one and two as the top step of the pyramid, but retain them in the League Cup.

That can then lead to two separate bodies - one running the top 24 clubs (who will all be full time) and one running the regionalised leagues (who will be mostly part time).

[A Hi-Bee]

I think that our team is going to go places and is going to be well looked after by Ron.
GGTTH

[Pagan Hibernia]

https://youtu.be/GzO1q2V3npE

stumbled across this old video from a few years ago. Tell you what, next AGM I’ll be asking Ron for dietary advice.

[chippy]

Has it? When

There was talk of it in the 50s apparently. It didn’t go as far as proposals afaik. Colours may have been an issue too.
My source is a close relative around at the time and a Hibs fanatic

[Since452]

There was talk of it in the 50s apparently. It didn’t go as far as proposals afaik. Colours may have been an issue too.
My source is a close relative around at the time and a Hibs fanatic

I might be talking absolute nonsense but was there not talk of us relocating to Aberdeen around that time too?

[mim]

There was talk of it in the 50s apparently. It didn’t go as far as proposals afaik. Colours may have been an issue too.
My source is a close relative around at the time and a Hibs fanatic

When the Fairs Cup started up, the ruling body wanted the participants to be known by their city of qualification - hence Edinburgh Hibernian and Perth St Johnstone.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I might be talking absolute nonsense but was there not talk of us relocating to Aberdeen around that time too?

that was far earlier. Early days of the 20th century. Before Aberdeen FC even existed

[Since452]

that was far earlier. Early days of the 20th century. Before Aberdeen FC even existed

Ah fair enough. At least i wasn't imagining it.

[Greencore]

There was talk of it in the 50s apparently. It didn’t go as far as proposals afaik. Colours may have been an issue too.
My source is a close relative around at the time and a Hibs fanatic
Changing our name to what though? Were we going to change our colours??

[jgl07]

Changing our name to what though? Were we going to change our colours??
I recall reading something (on Hibs-net!) about the previous owner, Harry Swan, wanting to change the name of Hibs and possibly the colours. It was a de-Irishifacation process. He only got as far as removing the Harp from the stand walls.

[sleeping giant]

Another excellent interview from Ron.
His enthusiam is infectious.

[jacomo]

I recall reading something (on Hibs-net!) about the previous owner, Harry Swan, wanting to change the name of Hibs and possibly the colours. It was a de-Irishifacation process. He only got as far as removing the Harp from the stand walls.


This is just Celtc myth-making isn’t it?

If they can portray Hibs as a club that was ashamed of its Irish roots, they think it makes them look better. It’s not true.

[Smartie]

This is just Celtc myth-making isn’t it?

If they can portray Hibs as a club that was ashamed of its Irish roots, they think it makes them look better. It’s not true.

Whilst Celtic have been very guilty of mischief making when it comes to Swan, there is a bit of truth in this iirc.

There was quite a lot of anti-Irish sentiment around that time, groups like "Protestant action" and the like.

I'm pretty sure there were several pretty direct actions taken to tone down the "Irishness" of the club around that time in orderer it to appeal to a wider audience - stuff like dropping the harp, stopping priests getting free entry to the stand etc.

It wasn't necessarily about being ashamed of the Irish roots but just toning certain things down, partly in response to what was happening around the wider community at that time.

I may be miles off the mark with this, but I was pretty sure that was what happened around that time from something or other that I've read over the years...

[Peevemor]

Whilst Celtic have been very guilty of mischief making when it comes to Swan, there is a bit of truth in this iirc.

There was quite a lot of anti-Irish sentiment around that time, groups like "Protestant action" and the like.

I'm pretty sure there were several pretty direct actions taken to tone down the "Irishness" of the club around that time in orderer it to appeal to a wider audience - stuff like dropping the harp, stopping priests getting free entry to the stand etc.

It wasn't necessarily about being ashamed of the Irish roots but just toning certain things down, partly in response to what was happening around the wider community at that time.

I may be miles off the mark with this, but I was pretty sure that was what happened around that time from something or other that I've read over the years...There's some good informative discussion about all this here (some nonsense too).

https://foot.ie/threads/11886-Hibernian-FC-and-there-place-in-Irish-History

[superfurryhibby]

Whilst Celtic have been very guilty of mischief making when it comes to Swan, there is a bit of truth in this iirc.

There was quite a lot of anti-Irish sentiment around that time, groups like "Protestant action" and the like.

I'm pretty sure there were several pretty direct actions taken to tone down the "Irishness" of the club around that time in orderer it to appeal to a wider audience - stuff like dropping the harp, stopping priests getting free entry to the stand etc.

It wasn't necessarily about being ashamed of the Irish roots but just toning certain things down, partly in response to what was happening around the wider community at that time.

I may be miles off the mark with this, but I was pretty sure that was what happened around that time from something or other that I've read over the years...

The myth of Swan’s approach to Hibs’ Irish roots has been covered in a lot of depth over recent years. Protestant Action were at their most successful pre WW2, The harp came down late 50’s due to remodelling of that part of the ground, there were no attempts to change the colour of the strip, the-name of the club and so on.

[Pagan Hibernia]

There's some good informative discussion about all this here (some nonsense too).

https://foot.ie/threads/11886-Hibernian-FC-and-there-place-in-Irish-History

goodness me. What a load of old pish spoken by that ‘Rebel Bhoy’ chancer. Rightly and correctly put in his place by the resident Hibs fans on there. I absolutely detest that mob. A pale, cheap, knock off imitation of our great club.

[Kato]

Whilst Celtic have been very guilty of mischief making when it comes to Swan, there is a bit of truth in this iirc.

There was quite a lot of anti-Irish sentiment around that time, groups like "Protestant action" and the like.

I'm pretty sure there were several pretty direct actions taken to tone down the "Irishness" of the club around that time in orderer it to appeal to a wider audience - stuff like dropping the harp, stopping priests getting free entry to the stand etc.

It wasn't necessarily about being ashamed of the Irish roots but just toning certain things down, partly in response to what was happening around the wider community at that time.

I may be miles off the mark with this, but I was pretty sure that was what happened around that time from something or other that I've read over the years...Eddie Turnbull stopped the priests' free entry.

On first taking charge Swan bought green nets for the goals and appointed a Monsignour for the players. He had been in charge for 22 years when the Harp was removed (as the wall it was mounted on was being demolished. If he was in any remote way trying to remove "the Irishness" of the club he failed miserably while having Carter blanche to do what he wanted.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Pagan Hibernia]

Eddie Turnbull stopped the priests' free entry.

On first taking charge Swan bought green nets for the goals and appointed a Monsignour for the players. He had been in charge for 22 years when the Harp was removed (as the wall it was mounted on was being demolished. If he was in any remote way trying to remove "the Irishness" of the club he failed miserably while having Carter blanche to do what he wanted.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

he also kept a beautiful harp mosaic artwork in the boardroom I believe

[CentreLine]

I recall reading something (on Hibs-net!) about the previous owner, Harry Swan, wanting to change the name of Hibs and possibly the colours. It was a de-Irishifacation process. He only got as far as removing the Harp from the stand walls.

You will definitely have read and it just illustrates the powers of the internet to spread fake news. It has been completely and unequivocally trashed so many times though and you can be absolutely confident that it was an invention of a part of the Celtic support with an agenda.

[matty_f]

When are you getting him on Longbangers Matty 😁

Negotiations are under way. :wink:

[Smartie]

There's some good informative discussion about all this here (some nonsense too).

https://foot.ie/threads/11886-Hibernian-FC-and-there-place-in-Irish-History

It's quite funny - I could swear I've read that before, then gone on to remember it differently.

Interesting stuff.

Clearly I was wrong on this.

[007]

Negotiations are under way. :wink:

👍 I've already got some CIA questions for him.

[Clarence]

I really like the cut of Ron’s jib. He gets our club and wants to improve it but in a way that is sensitive to our culture.

[Brizo]

Do not mess with the name of our club. It’s been tried in the past and failed.


While I don't believe anyone has ever tried to change our name, after WW2 there was definitely a move to give the club a much stronger Edinburgh identity. The crest the club used post-war to represent itself in day-to-day business was the Edinburgh Coat of Arms amended to include a football and the name Edinburgh Hibernian in a scroll above it. This was the crest that appeared on the Coronation Cup programme, League winners medals, players blazers etc.

While the Harp remained above the main stand and I don't buy into any of the anti Harry Swan paranoia the club chose to market itself to its post-war audience with a much greater emphasis on our Edinburgh location and part of that was the new crest and scroll reading "Edinburgh Hibernian". As far as I'm aware we remained known to all as Hibernian.

There's a number of probable reasons for that increased emphasis on Edinburgh, probably all interlinked. Post-war we attracted tens of thousands of new fans attracted by the Famous 5 and the majority had no connection or affinity with our origins. Emphasizing our Edinburgh location was deemed, to use 21st-century language, more inclusive. There were no Directors remaining on the Board who were connected with the club's origins and so the post-War Board possibly didn't have the same affinity with the Harp as pre-war Boards. Also, the ROI had controversially been neutral during WW2 and for the thousands of returning servicemen flocking to ER reducing the use of such a blatantly Irish symbol might have been seen to recognize the ill-feeling towards that neutrality.