Barcelona debt

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58235195

Been catching on the Barcelona statement today from the new president
Key points
Debt £1.15 billion
Salaries at 103% of turnover
Needed an immediate Loan of €80million to pay wages
Negative value of €451million
One person was paid €8million Euros to scout in South America

[calumhibee1]

Crazy money.

Unsure how they’ve managed it. On one hand they never really sold many of their golden generation (if any?) and as such they’d have never made much out of them in transfer fees. On the other hand though, they spent years with the backbone of their team having come through their youth system and as such having cost them very little.

[Since452]

How any football club can be that much in debt is staggering. 11 men kicking a ball about.

[lucky]

Basically cheated on a grander scale than Hearts. Buying players and paying wages they couldn’t afford.

[green day]

The banks / institutions that loaned them money are just as culpable - as are the Spanish League.

Any club could win all those titles and trophies if allowed to (over)spend on that scale.

Mes Que un Club my erse.

[neil7908]

Basically cheated on a grander scale than Hearts. Buying players and paying wages they couldn’t afford.

Yup. I'm no fan of PSG, Man City etc but Barca have peddled an image of themselves as 'Mes Que Un Club'.

It's a great marketing strategy but they are no different to anyone else at the top end of football and I have 0 sympathy for them.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Scandalous what they’ve been allowed to do to what was once such a special institution as FC Barcelona

they really were More than a Club at one time. Not anymore.

[easty]

It’s a disgrace.

[Stuart93]

Modern day football at its peak.

They’ve signed so many flops at a massive price and still relied on Messi to carry them. Scary how badly they’re run.

[BegbieHSC]

A special, iconic club run into the ground by greedy incompetents.

Modern football at its peak indeed - created by the poor, stolen by the rich and greedy.

[Allant1981]

They paid messi almost £500 million in the last 4 years, no wonder they are so much in debt

[Billy Whizz]

They paid messi almost £500 million in the last 4 years, no wonder they are so much in debt

They still owe him £30m as well

[Sir David Gray]

So much for them being this club full of morals.

Més que un club my backside.

[hibsforeurope]

How are they possibly with in the fifa financial fair play with figures like those? If that was anyone else they would be suspended From champions league.

[LeithMike]

Just shows that fan ownership is no guarantee of financial prudence. I really like the idea of football clubs being non-profit making with no return for members/owners similar to a company limited by guarantee with an elected board but it doesnt take much for a board/president promising the world to get voted in and let things spiral out of control.

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[RyeSloan]

They paid messi almost £500 million in the last 4 years, no wonder they are so much in debt

Seriously? Wow.

You would have thought he might have played on for them for nowt if that was the case and if he loved them so much since he’s already extracted half a billion pounds from them!

[Killiehibbie]

Seriously? Wow.

You would have thought he might have played on for them for nowt if that was the case and if he loved them so much since he’s already extracted half a billion pounds from them!

I read something along the lines of he couldn't be paid a certain amount below his previous contract or even play for nothing if he wanted to.

[CL0762]

They paid messi almost £500 million in the last 4 years, no wonder they are so much in debt

Messi was worth more to Barcelona commercially than what he was in wages.


Seriously? Wow.

You would have thought he might have played on for them for nowt if that was the case and if he loved them so much since he’s already extracted half a billion pounds from them!

Spanish law wouldn’t allow him to play for free, never mind the La Liga rules. Why should he play for free? He’s the best in the world at his job. Do you ever see an Oscar winner doing films for free? Or Lewis Hamilton do a season for free with mercedes?

[The_Exile]

I hope they crash and burn. This isn't the game I love anymore, its ****ing disgusting.

[Northernhibee]

I hope they crash and burn. This isn't the game I love anymore, its ****ing disgusting.

See when you get smug people down south calling us a “pub league”? We’re one of the few football leagues remaining, even if the gruesome twosome don’t help with that argument.

[04Sauzee]

I seen something on the TV at the weekend that PSG are selling their top with Messi on it for €165 and are expecting to shift 10 million of them 👀

[The_Exile]

See when you get smug people down south calling us a “pub league”? We’re one of the few football leagues remaining, even if the gruesome twosome don’t help with that argument.

100% agree, there's something much purer about our game than any of these leagues. With that kind of stupid money they all become slaves to results, rather than slaves to a feeling like what we have up here. (Re the old firm thing, I would be bored rigid being a Rangers or Celtic fan, wheres the appeal?)

[Alfred E Newman]

I seen something on the TV at the weekend that PSG are selling their top with Messi on it for €165 and are expecting to shift 10 million of them 👀

If Budge sees that she'll be trying to sell Ginnelly shirts at £150 and expect to sell 400000.

[degenerated]

I hope they crash and burn. This isn't the game I love anymore, its ****ing disgusting.I feel exactly the same as you, but my rage is brought about more with this sort of nonsense. It's enough for me to wish the whole EPL goes pop. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210816/59e76a87825dd57f679e1829686c7610.jpg

[calumhibee1]

I feel exactly the same as you, but my rage is brought about more with this sort of nonsense. It's enough for me to wish the whole EPL goes pop. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210816/59e76a87825dd57f679e1829686c7610.jpg

:faf:

I went to Spurs V Man City at Wembley a few years ago when Spurs were playing there.

It was absolutely *****. Now I’m fully aware I was part of the tourist crowd but I honestly don’t think there was a fan of either team in my section.

[degenerated]

:faf:

I went to Spurs V Man City at Wembley a few years ago when Spurs were playing there.

It was absolutely *****. Now I’m fully aware I was part of the tourist crowd but I honestly don’t think there was a fan of either team in my section.I was at a Manchester derby at old Trafford about 6 years ago and it was tourist central. Mind I was there on a corporate jolly so cant really talk :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

Barca have my blessing to do a Rangers.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Have they shelved the Nou Camp renovations, due to the debt?

[NC1875]

They paid messi almost £500 million in the last 4 years, no wonder they are so much in debt

And that is everything that is wrong with modern day football. No one no matter how good a player should be paid that amount of money for kicking a ball. It’s ridiculous

[McSwanky]

What a joke football has become. A race to the bottom.

[Ronniekirk]

Just shouldn’t be allowed to happen imo


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[MWHIBBIES]

Its funny how much losing Neymar hurt them. Spent silly money trying to fix it (Dembele, Coutinho, Griezmann) and had to bow to everything Messi wanted because they had no alternative.

They've held onto a couple of the golden team a bit long I think. Busquests and Pique are still very good players, but they have no idea how to replace them and how to move themselves forward. Its a pretty bad situation they are in.

Real Madrid and Atletico aren't much better. Its a house of cards.

[Orchard_Hibs]

**** them. They will moan about how skint they are now but in a few years time they will be back to spending national debt level amounts on players. I think I actually hate football (I love hibs) but they way the world seems to revolve around a sport that has become the play thing of multi millionaires who have made their money in various questionable ways. The whole thing would be better amateur with very limited local sponsors.

[Winston Ingram]

Cheats

[RyeSloan]

Messi was worth more to Barcelona commercially than what he was in wages.



Spanish law wouldn’t allow him to play for free, never mind the La Liga rules. Why should he play for free? He’s the best in the world at his job. Do you ever see an Oscar winner doing films for free? Or Lewis Hamilton do a season for free with mercedes?

I’m not saying he should play for free but if he could then he might have as a wee thank you for the half a billion that came before!

I’ve seen some CEO’s etc take a nominal £1 in wages before (normally after they have tanked the company with bad decisions right enough!) so was curious about Messi doing the same…if there is some rulz that prevented that then fair enough.

On the wider point though..1bn of debt takes some doing! What a farce and agree with the ‘cheats’ sentiment for sure. As for Fair play Rules…oh aye they have worked right enough!

[calumhibee1]

I’m not saying he should play for free but if he could then he might have as a wee thank you for the half a billion that came before!

I’ve seen some CEO’s etc take a nominal £1 in wages before (normally after they have tanked the company with bad decisions right enough!) so was curious about Messi doing the same…if there is some rulz that prevented that then fair enough.

On the wider point though..1bn of debt takes some doing! What a farce and agree with the ‘cheats’ sentiment for sure. As for Fair play Rules…oh aye they have worked right enough!

I’m sure someone will be able to go into more detail than me but I believe there’s a law in Spain that prevents someone taking any more than a 50% pay cut.

[MWHIBBIES]

I’m sure someone will be able to go into more detail than me but I believe there’s a law in Spain that prevents someone taking any more than a 50% pay cut.

Yes. New contract must be at least 50% of old one.

[Smartie]

I’m quite enjoying the levels of revulsion that their situation has caused pretty much unanimously amongst football fans I know.

When I was wee I had a Steve Archibald era Barcelona kit that I got on holiday and I always thought there was something particularly cool about them. I think I went off them when we played them - it was a nonsense of a soulless stunt match with us rolled out to face the Harlem globetrotters in front of some hibbies and tens of thousands of fanboys. They’re just an ugly, bland, corporate shambles and I’m glad to see them struggle. It’s a shame for the hardcore support but 90% of their support worldwide have probably already moved on to Man City, PSG or Real Madrid.

They make me grateful our club is still how it is in so many ways tbh.

[Just Alf]

Is it not in Messi's case his contract's expired and as their wages to turnover percentage is over the limit (80% I think) they cant sign anyone onto a new contract even a free to play one?

[MWHIBBIES]

Is it not in Messi's case his contract's expired and as their wages to turnover percentage is over the limit (80% I think) they cant sign anyone onto a new contract even a free to play one?

Yes. But he couldn't play for free even if that rule allowed it.

[Just Alf]

Yes. But he couldn't play for free even if that rule allowed it.

:aok:

[RyeSloan]

Yes. New contract must be at least 50% of old one.

Ahh a nice example of the laws of unintended consequences that one!

[gbhibby]

The Spanish big two have been breaking the FFP rules for years. If they went bust it might send a message and bring some teams back into the real World.UEFA are compliant as well with the way that the bigger countries England etc have had all the privileges in European tournaments.
Football needs to get back to a level playing field. No sympathy for clubs who are greedy.

[Pagan Hibernia]

**** them. They will moan about how skint they are now but in a few years time they will be back to spending national debt level amounts on players. I think I actually hate football (I love hibs) but they way the world seems to revolve around a sport that has become the play thing of multi millionaires who have made their money in various questionable ways. The whole thing would be better amateur with very limited local sponsors.

interesting point.

I finally managed to get hold of Alan Lugton’s ‘The making of Hibernian’ and reading about the club’s earliest years gives me a warm glow, the ideals, the charity, the pride the players had of simply wearing the shirt.

but professionalism was good for the game. It gave countless talented kids in deprived areas of the world the incentive to make something of their football gifts. They couldn’t have made the most of their talent if they had a day job to do too, and the game would be worse off.

[FilipinoHibs]

Hearts on a bigger scale. They will never be able to pay it back. Will end in defaults and litigation. Barca 2030 club coming.

[SteveHFC]

I was at a Manchester derby at old Trafford about 6 years ago and it was tourist central. Mind I was there on a corporate jolly so cant really talk :greengrin

Was at the Etihad to see Man City-Leicester a few days before Christmas 2 years ago and it was a pish atmosphere considering both teams 2nd and 3rd at the time and full of plastic Man City fans.

[Orchard_Hibs]

interesting point.

I finally managed to get hold of Alan Lugton’s ‘The making of Hibernian’ and reading about the club’s earliest years gives me a warm glow, the ideals, the charity, the pride the players had of simply wearing the shirt.

but professionalism was good for the game. It gave countless talented kids in deprived areas of the world the incentive to make something of their football gifts. They couldn’t have made the most of their talent if they had a day job to do too, and the game would be worse off.

But now those kids making the most of their talent are earning more than entire countries, the whole thing is a mess. Professionalism no doubt improved the game and those that play it but it is out of control now and the circus of sponsors that surround the whole thing is just weird. I even noticed that the terry Healy group are offering boiler and central heating cover for as little as £25/month, the same cover is available for about £120 for a whole year, to my mind this is just mugging supporters and claiming that it’s for your team.

[allezsauzee]

Maybe we could take Pique on loan to help reduce their wage bill by a couple of grand a week? I'd be happy enough to contribute to his wage if he promises to bring his wife over.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

I’m quite enjoying the levels of revulsion that their situation has caused pretty much unanimously amongst football fans I know.

When I was wee I had a Steve Archibald era Barcelona kit that I got on holiday and I always thought there was something particularly cool about them. I think I went off them when we played them - it was a nonsense of a soulless stunt match with us rolled out to face the Harlem globetrotters in front of some hibbies and tens of thousands of fanboys. They’re just an ugly, bland, corporate shambles and I’m glad to see them struggle. It’s a shame for the hardcore support but 90% of their support worldwide have probably already moved on to Man City, PSG or Real Madrid.

They make me grateful our club is still how it is in so many ways tbh.

I'm always amazed at how fast teams come into fashion and then fall out of favour.
Was out and about in various locations over the weekend and it was scary just how many kids (boys and girls) had PSG kits on, adults too. Tops, trackies and baseball caps.
A couple of years ago all you saw was a kid in a Barca strip, the next in Real Madrid then the next in a Barca one again. Now it's PSG and Man City everywhere.

I must be an oddball cos back in the 80s and 90s all I had was Hibs and Scotland kits.

[allyh1bs]

Maybe we could take Pique on loan to help reduce their wage bill by a couple of grand a week? I'd be happy enough to contribute to his wage if he promises to bring his wife over.

Shakira in the Centre Stand. Now yer talking!!


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[Crazyhorse]

Messi was worth more to Barcelona commercially than what he was in wages.



Spanish law wouldn’t allow him to play for free, never mind the La Liga rules. Why should he play for free? He’s the best in the world at his job. Do you ever see an Oscar winner doing films for free? Or Lewis Hamilton do a season for free with mercedes?

That’s interesting about the commercial operation did he also get a cut of that? How much money does the guy need? To me it’s obscene.

Regarding Oscar winners as far as I’m aware the two greatest actors alive today Frances McDormand and Daniel Day-Lewis (the equivalent of Messi and Ronaldo if you will) have been very willing to act in low budget (with consequently low fee) movies even after they were Oscar winners.

Messi and Ronaldo are fantastic footballers but despite earning enough to bankrupt Barcelona Messi is a convicted tax fraudster so it seems it wasn’t enough money for him. As regards Ronaldo well he has vast wealth and influence and maybe that keeps a lot of things out of the public domain.

[Haymaker]

It's utterly insane that clubs who pay huge amounts of money to people to manage the club financially/business wise can allow the very business they run into such trouble.

[cocteautwin]

Hearts on a bigger scale. They will never be able to pay it back. Will end in defaults and litigation. Barca 2030 club coming.

The next set of Hearts Accounts are going to make an interesting read. If Budge has continued her loans to the club they might have debt of £4-5m sitting there at 30 June 2021. This is a hole that the club will never get out of (certainly not a fan owned club) unless Anderson agrees to fund that loan and write it off with one of his big contributions. You do need to wonder at what stage the whole thing clicks in his head and he realises he’s been conned in to giving away almost £20m to an astonishingly badly run organisation.

[Phil MaGlass]

The, The Barcelona

[rossevenil]

And within hours of this it comes out they are interested in Aubameyang from Arsenal with Coutinho as a sweetner.....as others have said love of football other than Hibs is pretty much dead for me,lost interest in European football
when it started to become such a closed shop in the Champions league looking after the rich and screwing everyone else

[Pilrig_Sauzee]

Over the years, often a great side, but a rotten club. No sympathy.

[calumhibee1]

Out of interest, how did Barcelona manage to get Depay etc registered?

I thought even without Messi they were still miles from where they needed to be?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Out of interest, how did Barcelona manage to get Depay etc registered?

I thought even without Messi they were still miles from where they needed to be?

was it not Piquet taking a pay cut ? Read that as the reports enthused about his goal and reckoned he’s a future President of the club.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The Spanish big two have been breaking the FFP rules for years. If they went bust it might send a message and bring some teams back into the real World.UEFA are compliant as well with the way that the bigger countries England etc have had all the privileges in European tournaments.
Football needs to get back to a level playing field. No sympathy for clubs who are greedy.

governing bodies and associations asleep At the wheel - for decades I’ll say it yet again - and the rules apply to all - first and foremost they must safeguard the sustainability of the game.

what goes up must come down. Can’t wait for the EPL bubble to go pop - happened to the Italians and the Spanish leagues. Why should they be different)

[Crunchie]

governing bodies and associations asleep At the wheel - for decades I’ll say it yet again - and the rules apply to all - first and foremost they must safeguard the sustainability of the game.

what goes up must come down. Can’t wait for the EPL bubble to go pop - happened to the Italians and the Spanish leagues. Why should they be different)
I've been saying this for the past 10 years :confused: can't believe some of their big clubs haven't folded yet. I'ts staggering the collective debt of the big clubs down there.

[Sir David Gray]

was it not Piquet taking a pay cut ? Read that as the reports enthused about his goal and reckoned he’s a future President of the club.

Yep Depay and two others were only able to sign because Pique agreed to a wage cut.

[calumhibee1]

was it not Piquet taking a pay cut ? Read that as the reports enthused about his goal and reckoned he’s a future President of the club.

Ah ok :aok:

[FilipinoHibs]

The next set of Hearts Accounts are going to make an interesting read. If Budge has continued her loans to the club they might have debt of £4-5m sitting there at 30 June 2021. This is a hole that the club will never get out of (certainly not a fan owned club) unless Anderson agrees to fund that loan and write it off with one of his big contributions. You do need to wonder at what stage the whole thing clicks in his head and he realises he’s been conned in to giving away almost £20m to an astonishingly badly run organisation.

There is no end to their financial illiteracy. Benny falls into making a small fortune from football having started with a big one unless he puts the breaks on soon.

[Keith_M]

The Spanish big two have been breaking the FFP rules for years. If they went bust it might send a message and bring some teams back into the real World.UEFA are compliant as well with the way that the bigger countries England etc have had all the privileges in European tournaments.
Football needs to get back to a level playing field. No sympathy for clubs who are greedy.



:agree:


I really don't understand how Real Madrid and Barcelona haven't fallen foul of the FFP rules before now. There's clearly a different set of rules for the 'elite' clubs.



The two greatest players in the world were playing for Spain's two largest clubs while both were found guilty of massive Tax Evasion... despite being paid obscene amounts of money.

That pretty much sums up the ugly world of modern football.

[greenginger]

It's utterly insane that clubs who pay huge amounts of money to people to manage the club financially/business wise can allow the very business they run into such trouble.


Is it not not the case that it’s the Club President who sets the direction of the Club and the President is voted in by the club members/supporters.

They vote for somebody to be president who promises to spend big and bring success not a president who will balance the books.

Thats why Budge won’t allow FoH to run things down in Gorgie even if the own the place.

At least Barca are living up to their motto - “ more than a Club “.

They’re now a Club with a sh*t-storm of debt round their necks :greengrin

[gbhibby]

:agree:


I really don't understand how Real Madrid and Barcelona haven't fallen foul of the FFP rules before now. There's clearly a different set of rules for the 'elite' clubs.



The two greatest players in the world were playing for Spain's two largest clubs while both were found guilty of massive Tax Evasion... despite being paid obscene amounts of money.

That pretty much sums up the ugly world of modern football.
Did the Spanish government not help Real by buying their training ground for far more than what it was worth.
As long as UEFA Structure their tournaments to make the rich get richer it will not change. European football is huge for clubs outside the Elite nations, in England its small change.

[Crazyhorse]

Did the Spanish government not help Real by buying their training ground for far more than what it was worth.
As long as UEFA Structure their tournaments to make the rich get richer it will not change. European football is huge for clubs outside the Elite nations, in England its small change.

My recollection is that it was the dodgy regional governments that stepped in to effectively wipe out their debts by inflating the price of land they owned. Leaving their city rivals and the rest of Spanish football screwed.

[ancient hibee]

J
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58235195

Been catching on the Barcelona statement today from the new president
Key points
Debt £1.15 billion
Salaries at 103% of turnover
Needed an immediate Loan of €80million to pay wages
Negative value of €451million
One person was paid €8million Euros to scout in South America

It’s even worse than I thought. The Scotsman has the debt at £115bn. Think they may be missing the point (very old joke).

[cocteautwin]

I've been saying this for the past 10 years :confused: can't believe some of their big clubs haven't folded yet. I'ts staggering the collective debt of the big clubs down there.

If the debt is just a million or two it’s a club problem. If the debt is a billion or two it becomes a bank/government/national problem.

[greenginger]

My recollection is that it was the dodgy regional governments that stepped in to effectively wipe out their debts by inflating the price of land they owned. Leaving their city rivals and the rest of Spanish football screwed.

A wee bit like our council flogging the acre of land the Gorgie mob needed for their new stand for £1.

A bit more than dodgy. :cb

[McSwanky]

Did the Spanish government not help Real by buying their training ground for far more than what it was worth.
As long as UEFA Structure their tournaments to make the rich get richer it will not change. European football is huge for clubs outside the Elite nations, in England its small change.

Problem with this is that the 'fairer' UEFA make their tournaments, and the more FFP rules legislate against obscene wages like we see now, the more leverage there will be for the big clubs to break away from the system and make their own rules, as some are still threatening to do so. The whole system is broken, and I sincerely hope a few of the big clubs become casualties of the fallout if and when it comes.

We all know what will happen though, we've already seen it with Rangers and Hearts here. The clubs will simply rise again, and the real losers will be the creditors. The only consolation will be if some of the creditors happen to be big banks who have been up to some pretty irresponsible lending. But then again, I doubt it. Like always, it'll be Joe Bloggs (or in this case Jose Burro??) in the street that suffers the most. *****.

[sadtom]

Maybe we could take Pique on loan to help reduce their wage bill by a couple of grand a week? I'd be happy enough to contribute to his wage if he promises to bring his wife over.

About time someone addressed this glaring problem.
Plenty of fans correctly pointing out that we need cover at central defence and centre forward…but nobody has mentioned that we have never adequately replaced Shelly Marciano.
Get it sorted Hibs.
A centre half. A centre forward. And Mrs Piquet for the centre stand. :agree:

[Crazyhorse]

If the debt is just a million or two it’s a club problem. If the debt is a billion or two it becomes a bank/government/national problem.

In the case of those two I would say it’s a local government corruption problem cx2

[Crazyhorse]

A wee bit like our council flogging the acre of land the Gorgie mob needed for their new stand for £1.

A bit more than dodgy. :cb

Local government corruption Edinburgh style...

[EI255]

Modern football eh?



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[EI255]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58235195

Been catching on the Barcelona statement today from the new president
Key points
Debt £1.15 billion
Salaries at 103% of turnover
Needed an immediate Loan of €80million to pay wages
Negative value of €451million
One person was paid €8million Euros to scout in South AmericaThey will NEVER be able to repay that. Not even close. Hell mend them.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[gbhibby]

Problem with this is that the 'fairer' UEFA make their tournaments, and the more FFP rules legislate against obscene wages like we see now, the more leverage there will be for the big clubs to break away from the system and make their own rules, as some are still threatening to do so. The whole system is broken, and I sincerely hope a few of the big clubs become casualties of the fallout if and when it comes.

We all know what will happen though, we've already seen it with Rangers and Hearts here. The clubs will simply rise again, and the real losers will be the creditors. The only consolation will be if some of the creditors happen to be big banks who have been up to some pretty irresponsible lending. But then again, I doubt it. Like always, it'll be Joe Bloggs (or in this case Jose Burro??) in the street that suffers the most. *****.
Agree. A breakaway league will have to offer obscene amounts lof money to entice English clubs to participate. We saw how that worked out with fans rallying against it. As Jock Stein say Football without fans is nothing. The champions league is one of the most boring tournaments. I do not watch any games in that tournament turned off many years ago.

[Haymaker]

Is it not not the case that it’s the Club President who sets the direction of the Club and the President is voted in by the club members/supporters.

They vote for somebody to be president who promises to spend big and bring success not a president who will balance the books.

Thats why Budge won’t allow FoH to run things down in Gorgie even if the own the place.

At least Barca are living up to their motto - “ more than a Club “.

They’re now a Club with a sh*t-storm of debt round their necks :greengrin

Yeah that is true. But surely the CFO or whatever should be like "erm... Not sure we can afford this" in a meeting or two? Just ridiculous really.

[FilipinoHibs]

Barcelona Gives Up Messi’s Star Power to Try Fixing Its Finances https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-07/barcelona-gives-up-messi-s-star-power-to-try-fixing-its-finances

[Phil MaGlass]

Just a matter of time until some rich sheikh comes along and scoops them up..

[Onion]

ESL was their bail out plan. Thrashings of a club in deep doo doos.

[hibbysam]

I just don’t quite understand how a club with such a huge global brand, can end up in such a bad way. They should be taking it in with merchandise sales worldwide, with 100k fans paying week in week out etc. They should be able to afford just about anyone. An embarrassing state to be in.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I just don’t quite understand how a club with such a huge global brand, can end up in such a bad way. They should be taking it in with merchandise sales worldwide, with 100k fans paying week in week out etc. They should be able to afford just about anyone. An embarrassing state to be in.

for the lifelong supporters/members from Catalonia who hold the club dear in their hearts I’d imagine it’s heartbreaking.

as for the tourists and fanboys, who cares

[hibbysam]

for the lifelong supporters/members from Catalonia who hold the club dear in their hearts I’d imagine it’s heartbreaking.

as for the tourists and fanboys, who cares

Of course that’s a given, I just can’t believe there isn’t full on riots over there regarding it considering how much they love their club.

[Since90+2]

They might be a worldwide brand, and a horrible corporate entity in the eyes of some fans, but unless you've spent time in Catalonia I don't think you can appreciate what that football club means to the people of that region. The passion they have for their club surpasses just about anything else I've witnessed in football.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I just don’t quite understand how a club with such a huge global brand, can end up in such a bad way. They should be taking it in with merchandise sales worldwide, with 100k fans paying week in week out etc. They should be able to afford just about anyone. An embarrassing state to be in.

It's because they are in a never ending battle with Real Madrid for the Spanish league and both clubs have an insatiable need to win the champion's league. It's the same situation here with the Glasgow uglies Celtic were on the brink before whatsisname took them over a few decades back and the Huns destroyed themselves trying to compete in Europe. The common denominator is spending money they didn't have because their rivals were doing it.

The combined dept of the so called big European leagues must be unimaginable.

[calumhibee1]

It's because they are in a never ending battle with Real Madrid for the Spanish league and both clubs have an insatiable need to win the champion's league. It's the same situation here with the Glasgow uglies Celtic were on the brink before whatsisname took them over a few decades back and the Huns destroyed themselves trying to compete in Europe. The common denominator is spending money they didn't have because their rivals were doing it.

The combined dept of the so called big European leagues must be unimaginable.

Must be at least £10 billion.

There’s championship clubs with around £100m debt I’m sure.

[greenginger]

It's because they are in a never ending battle with Real Madrid for the Spanish league and both clubs have an insatiable need to win the champion's league. It's the same situation here with the Glasgow uglies Celtic were on the brink before whatsisname took them over a few decades back and the Huns destroyed themselves trying to compete in Europe. The common denominator is spending money they didn't have because their rivals were doing it.

The combined dept of the so called big European leagues must be unimaginable.

And when inflation returns, which is inevitable , and interest rates soar there will be no way out for those reckless clubs .

[FilipinoHibs]

And when inflation returns, which is inevitable , and interest rates soar there will be no way out for those reckless clubs .

Interest rates are fixed on current debt and rising interest rates will only affect new debt or when they have to to roll debt over. Inflation will help them as will reduce value of current debt.

[gbhibby]

There are many football clubs trading where their income does not cover its expenditure. There are rich owners converting debt to equity to mask the club problems. David Murray at Rangers would have rights issues to raise finance and end up underwriting them himself.
Barca being a fan owned club will need a rich owner to take on the debt but they will need to cut salaries dramatically.They may not like that giving up their ownership.
I believe that Chelsea have more than a billion in loans from Abramovic on their books.
The money being offered to the ESL teams would have covered some of their debts.
I believe that Barca have 140000 members so their debt is £8200 per member.

[greenginger]

Interest rates are fixed on current debt and rising interest rates will only affect new debt or when they have to to roll debt over. Inflation will help them as will reduce value of current debt.

More likely interest on the debt will be fixed at a set percentage above Euro bank rate.

[greenginger]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/details-of-ann-budges-handover-to-foundation-of-hearts-plus-what-will-and-wont-change-at-tynecastle-3351494

Got to wonder if the “ spend our way to success “ mob will take control and will it lead to another crises down the road.

[Ronniekirk]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/details-of-ann-budges-handover-to-foundation-of-hearts-plus-what-will-and-wont-change-at-tynecastle-3351494

Got to wonder if the “ spend our way to success “ mob will take control and will it lead to another crises down the road.

So Hearts fans still donating 1.5 million to Hearts annually according to this article


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[Pagan Hibernia]

So Hearts fans still donating 1.5 million to Hearts annually according to this article


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they are. They won’t be going bust again any time soon

[bigwheel]

So Hearts fans still donating 1.5 million to Hearts annually according to this article


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Still pretty remarkable that. Salaries for six plus decent players at our level….


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[weecounty hibby]

So Hearts fans still donating 1.5 million to Hearts annually according to this article


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With the foundation of tarts pulling the strings and demanding success it is only a matter of time before they are robbing charities again. Wholly fan owned means that it is wholly the fans that will raise cash. 1.5m sounds great but what if they need 2.5? A model like we were moving to is more realistic with a percentage owned by fans groups. Only a matter of time before the in fighting starts with every contributor demanding his/her say and that they are all right. A group like Hibs.net can't even agree on big screens, can you imagine the decision making with that mob? Could be fun times ahead. Can't fault them for the money they have raised, and wasted, though

[Pagan Hibernia]

With the foundation of tarts pulling the strings and demanding success it is only a matter of time before they are robbing charities again. Wholly fan owned means that it is wholly the fans that will raise cash. 1.5m sounds great but what if they need 2.5? A model like we were moving to is more realistic with a percentage owned by fans groups. Only a matter of time before the in fighting starts with every contributor demanding his/her say and that they are all right. A group like Hibs.net can't even agree on big screens, can you imagine the decision making with that mob? Could be fun times ahead. Can't fault them for the money they have raised, and wasted, though

a club like hearts (and Hibs for that matter) should be comfortably sustainable and profitable without the FoH.

an extra £1.5 million a year on top of a modest profit that they might make will put them in an enviable financial position to be honest.

[RyeSloan]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/details-of-ann-budges-handover-to-foundation-of-hearts-plus-what-will-and-wont-change-at-tynecastle-3351494

Got to wonder if the “ spend our way to success “ mob will take control and will it lead to another crises down the road.

Hmm so the owners get two board seats and that’s that?

So basically the Chair, CEO and the rest of the board can tell the owners to go do one on any aspect of running the club until the board composition can be changed via a GM or the like.

At said GM the owner then has total control of who gets voted onto the board.

And thus slowly the board will turn into yes men for the two directors repressing the owners who are in fact repressing thousands of fans who will feel they have paid their dues to have their voices listened to.

If those voices are not listened to (and there will be many that are not as you can’t please all the people all the time even in the best of days) then they will want to sack the board which would be in fact sacking themselves.

What could possibly go wrong with this set up?

[weecounty hibby]

a club like hearts (and Hibs for that matter) should be comfortably sustainable and profitable without the FoH.

an extra £1.5 million a year on top of a modest profit that they might make will put them in an enviable financial position to be honest.
Your first paragraph sums up why they will implode. They will never accept sustainable, what they want is to be champions league winners. It's what they have been programmed to believe since the days of Mercer and everyone since then who has spent other people money. As I say, 1 5m per tear from the fans is great but every time they need cash they will ask the fans for the cash. Banks have been burned big time by clubs like hearts and I can't see them having a great credit score

[hibbysam]

It's because they are in a never ending battle with Real Madrid for the Spanish league and both clubs have an insatiable need to win the champion's league. It's the same situation here with the Glasgow uglies Celtic were on the brink before whatsisname took them over a few decades back and the Huns destroyed themselves trying to compete in Europe. The common denominator is spending money they didn't have because their rivals were doing it.

The combined dept of the so called big European leagues must be unimaginable.

I get that but they should be able to market themselves so they can afford just about anyone and remain debt free. They must have millions worldwide buying their merchandise. Couple that with their own tv deal and it’s crazy how they can end up in such dire straits.

[tamig]

Your first paragraph sums up why they will implode. They will never accept sustainable, what they want is to be champions league winners. It's what they have been programmed to believe since the days of Mercer and everyone since then who has spent other people money. As I say, 1 5m per tear from the fans is great but every time they need cash they will ask the fans for the cash. Banks have been burned big time by clubs like hearts and I can't see them having a great credit score

They still have Anderson pumping in significantly more for the next four years at least.

[Ronniekirk]

With the foundation of tarts pulling the strings and demanding success it is only a matter of time before they are robbing charities again. Wholly fan owned means that it is wholly the fans that will raise cash. 1.5m sounds great but what if they need 2.5? A model like we were moving to is more realistic with a percentage owned by fans groups. Only a matter of time before the in fighting starts with every contributor demanding his/her say and that they are all right. A group like Hibs.net can't even agree on big screens, can you imagine the decision making with that mob? Could be fun times ahead. Can't fault them for the money they have raised, and wasted, though

Agree re not faulting them for money raised


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[Billy Whizz]

They still have Anderson pumping in significantly more for the next four years at least.

I thought his monies were for non playing activities

[tamig]

I thought his monies were for non playing activities

And who oversees that one?

[cocteautwin]

an extra £1.5 million a year on top of a modest profit that they might make will put them in an enviable financial position to be honest.

It should put them in an enviable position . . . . . . . but considering they'll have fired through c£30m of extra cash by 30 June 21 we can only sit back and chuckle at how badly they've been run through this period and relax in the knowledge that it's the same bunch of clowns running the show at the top.

[worcesterhibby]

Just to bring this back to Barcelona…Barcelona selling Griezmann back to Atletico for €34 million, two years after paying €120 million to sign him - a transfer fee funded by taking out a short-term €35 million bank loan and mortgaging €85 million of future income. It is the very definition of cheating, incompetence and greed. May they rot in the lower leagues.

[MWHIBBIES]

Just to bring this back to Barcelona…Barcelona selling Griezmann back to Atletico for €34 million, two years after paying €120 million to sign him - a transfer fee funded by taking out a short-term €35 million bank loan and mortgaging €85 million of future income. It is the very definition of cheating, incompetence and greed. May they rot in the lower leagues.

It was just an awful transfer, nothing more. They'll probably never leave the top 3, never mind rot in the lower leagues.

[worcesterhibby]

It was just an awful transfer, nothing more. They'll probably never leave the top 3, never mind rot in the lower leagues.

your probably right about not dropping down the leagues, but it’s much, much more than an awful transfer, it’s utterly immoral.

[MWHIBBIES]

your probably right about not dropping down the leagues, but it’s much, much more than an awful transfer, it’s utterly immoral.

I dunno. The Paulinho one was probably worse. Genuinely don't see much wrong with this, all teams do things like this.

[Is It On....]

Just to bring this back to Barcelona…Barcelona selling Griezmann back to Atletico for €34 million, two years after paying €120 million to sign him - a transfer fee funded by taking out a short-term €35 million bank loan and mortgaging €85 million of future income. It is the very definition of cheating, incompetence and greed. May they rot in the lower leagues.

Leeds did something similar in the early 90s I seem to remember..and Craig Whyte bought Rangers using money borrowed against future season ticket and European revenues 😂

[Jones28]

Just to bring this back to Barcelona…Barcelona selling Griezmann back to Atletico for €34 million, two years after paying €120 million to sign him - a transfer fee funded by taking out a short-term €35 million bank loan and mortgaging €85 million of future income. It is the very definition of cheating, incompetence and greed. May they rot in the lower leagues.

So who pays the 85 million?

[jgl07]

My recollection is that it was the dodgy regional governments that stepped in to effectively wipe out their debts by inflating the price of land they owned. Leaving their city rivals and the rest of Spanish football screwed.
I think that the Madrid City Council have also bailed out Atletico by buying their former stadium (no doubt at way above market value) and turning it into a water park. That left enough cash to upgrade the former Madrid 'Olympic Stadium'.

In the case of Real Madrid, the Regional/City Council purchased their former training ground/reserve team stadium at way above market value. Real were able to build a new training facility and wipe out their accumulated debts.

[I'm Spartacus]

Pretty unreal to think that Barca are £1.2B in debt
The guy who kept people interested in them has £500M of that debt
The rest was spent on many duds 'just because'

If Messi loved the club to the extent of his tears he'd have played for free and done as much media and sponsorship work to help clear the debt, he's walked away to another £100M with PSG :)

#PRAYFORMESSI

(EDIT: I wouldn't expect all footballers to take this route, but who needs £500M+ in their bank?)

[Northernhibee]

Pretty unreal to think that Barca are £1.2B in debt
The guy who kept people interested in them has £500M of that debt
The rest was spent on many duds 'just because'

If Messi loved the club to the extent of his tears he'd have played for free and done as much media and sponsorship work to help clear the debt, he's walked away to another £100M with PSG :)

#PRAYFORMESSI

He couldn’t have played for free even if he wanted to underneath Spanish footballing rules.

[ScottB]

Why should Messi be expected to dig the club out the hole it dug itself?

He’d already agreed to stay at a significant pay cut, any lower wasn’t allowed under Spanish law, so when they proved unable to even pay that, he left. He may well love the club, doesn’t mean he’s not entirely within his rights to go elsewhere!

[calumhibee1]

Pretty unreal to think that Barca are £1.2B in debt
The guy who kept people interested in them has £500M of that debt
The rest was spent on many duds 'just because'

If Messi loved the club to the extent of his tears he'd have played for free and done as much media and sponsorship work to help clear the debt, he's walked away to another £100M with PSG :)

#PRAYFORMESSI

(EDIT: I wouldn't expect all footballers to take this route, but who needs £500M+ in their bank?)

He couldn’t have.

He couldn’t have taken more than a 50% pay cut. Barca couldn’t afford 50% of his previous wage. It was an impossible scenario that neither party could have resolved no matter how much they wanted to.

[jacomo]

So who pays the 85 million?


The fans ultimately do, as always.

The Barca support must be raging.

[theonlywayisup]

Things getting worse for Barca - Ronald Koeman has been sacked as head coach of Barcelona after 14 months in charge. Barca have picked up just 15 points from 10 games in La Liga and have already lost twice in the group stage of this season's Champions League. They are ninth in the table, six points adrift of the joint leaders after losing at Rayo Vallecano on Wednesday.

Ronald Koeman: Barcelona sack head coach after Rayo Vallecano loss - BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58633405)

[Spike Mandela]

a club like hearts (and Hibs for that matter) should be comfortably sustainable and profitable without the FoH.

an extra £1.5 million a year on top of a modest profit that they might make will put them in an enviable financial position to be honest.

We’ve heard all this guff about their enviable position before. If you take it that the average punter is pledging at least £20 per month to FoH (it may be more) that’s an extra £240 on top of their season ticket money.

Imagine if you were paying between £600-£700 a year to watch lower league finishes and a relegation. Add to that the rising cost of living, energy prices etc then extra expenditure on a football club seem like an unsustainable strain.

Ok, they have had a decent start this year but I for one don’t envy the cost to watch their team and don’t envy their ‘fan owned’ position which I’m not convinced wil stand the test when the financial going gets tough.

[CMurdoch]

We’ve heard all this guff about their enviable position before. If you take it that the average punter is pledging at least £20 per month to FoH (it may be more) that’s an extra £240 on top of their season ticket money.

Imagine if you were paying between £600-£700 a year to watch lower league finishes and a relegation. Add to that the rising cost of living, energy prices etc then extra expenditure on a football club seem like an unsustainable strain.

Ok, they have had a decent start this year but I for one don’t envy the cost to watch their team and don’t envy their ‘fan owned’ position which I’m not convinced wil stand the test when the financial going gets tough.

When will the financial going get tough if they live within their means? (Don't say it)
Only time I can think of is when they need to renew the stadium but that is years down the track.
It's a good model for the fans to ensure they always have their club and that profit is not taken by a private owner selling it.

We are totally at the mercy of RG and all subsequent owners.
Al it takes is for one of them to take too many risky or just being dodgy and we could sink.ikelyhood is We will be deid by then so wouldn't see it but our kids might. It's the risk of leaving yourself in the hands of others.

[Spike Mandela]

When will the financial going get tough if they live within their means? (Don't say it)
Only time I can think of is when they need to renew the stadium but that is years down the track.
It's a good model for the fans to ensure they always have their club and that profit is not taken by a private owner selling it.

We are totally at the mercy of RG and all subsequent owners.
Al it takes is for one of them to take too many risky or just being dodgy and we could sink.ikelyhood is We will be deid by then so wouldn't see it but our kids might. It's the risk of leaving yourself in the hands of others.

You’ve answered it yourself. They won’t live within their means, the payments will become a strain when cost of living starts to rise, as predicted everywhere, Their stadium is a ****hole apart from the new overpriced stand.

They are fleecing their supporters. A Hearts supporting friend of mine say they were wanting £110 per skull for the skyview hospitalty area which was dinner and half a bottle of wine each. All other drink was extra.

I give it 5 years before it gets messy.( just to get back on Barcelona link, lol)