Plymouth shooting.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm surprised that there isn't a thread on this.


Jake Davison apparently shot his mother, brother and sister before shooting randomly in the street and then shooting himself.


He apparently worked at the naval base in Plymouth. He is American, and has pro trump posts on Facebook.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm surprised that there isn't a thread on this.


Jake Davison apparently shot his mother, brother and sister before shooting randomly in the street and then shooting himself.


He apparently worked at the naval base in Plymouth. He is American, and has pro trump posts on Facebook.

I think people on here at least, are just less likely to speculate or believe rumours until some hard facts come out. We still know very little about the shooter and his motivation, but no matter what they were it's still a tragic waste of life.

[He's here!]

Dreadful incident.

It doesn't seem 11 years since the last time something like this took place in the UK (when Derek Bird killed 12 people in Cumbria) but I suppose at least it shows that, thankfully, such atrocities are relatively rare in this country. Dunblane, of course, remains all too horribly fresh in the mind of those of us old enough to remember it unfolding. One of those days, like 9/11, when I remember my workplace just coming to a standstill.

In saying that, the news that the person charged with the murder of a father in London this week was a 14 year old boy is desperately depressing too. Knife culture among (very) young people, particularly in London, terrifies me.

[Ozyhibby]

Dreadful incident.

It doesn't seem 11 years since the last time something like this took place in the UK (when Derek Bird killed 12 people in Cumbria) but I suppose at least it shows that, thankfully, such atrocities are relatively rare in this country. Dunblane, of course, remains all too horribly fresh in the mind of those of us old enough to remember it unfolding. One of those days, like 9/11, when I remember my workplace just coming to a standstill.

In saying that, the news that the person charged with the murder of a father in London this week was a 14 year old boy is desperately depressing too. Knife culture among (very) young people, particularly in London, terrifies me.

That culture is mostly a by product of the drug trade. The govt think it’s a price worth paying for the war on drugs.


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[SChibs]

That culture is mostly a by product of the drug trade. The govt think it’s a price worth paying for the war on drugs.


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I reckon the war on drugs has directly and indirectly killed more people than drugs themselves.

[He's here!]

That culture is mostly a by product of the drug trade. The govt think it’s a price worth paying for the war on drugs.


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The government are to blame for a motiveless (alleged) murder by a 14 year old and the resultant destruction of a family's life? That's quite a stretch and, as far as I can see from the details released so far in this case, based on little more than a desire to find a way of blaming the government for all the woes of the world.

The only person to blame is the perpetrator whose age (especially for those with similarly-aged children) is what will shock/depress most of those reading this story.

[Bristolhibby]

I reckon the war on drugs has directly and indirectly killed more people than drugs themselves.

Dare I say it, legalise all drugs, tax it earn revenue and take the business away from violent criminals.

Treat citizens like adults and pour money into education and recovery.

Not going to happen though.

J

[Kato]

The government are to blame for a motiveless (alleged) murder by a 14 year old and the resultant destruction of a family's life? That's quite a stretch and, as far as I can see from the details released so far in this case, based on little more than a desire to find a way of blaming the government for all the woes of the world.

The only person to blame is the perpetrator whose age (especially for those with similarly-aged children) is what will shock/depress most of those reading this story.Its true that it is a stretch to blame the Govt but its you making that stretch.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/08/13/incels-the-radicalised-extremist-community-of-white-male-supremacists/


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Horrific stuff. Has it been confirmed that it was his family he murdered?

[lapsedhibee]

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/08/13/incels-the-radicalised-extremist-community-of-white-male-supremacists/


Foids :rolleyes:

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/08/13/incels-the-radicalised-extremist-community-of-white-male-supremacists/


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I've heard the 'Incel' term before, but don't know the details. It seems like a bunch of social inadequates who can't get girlfriends, which then turns into resentment and rage against women. The classic insecure bully. When the misogyny combines with other extremist ideas, it can become very dangerous.

[CropleyWasGod]

I've heard the 'Incel' term before, but don't know the details. It seems like a bunch of social inadequates who can't get girlfriends, which then turns into resentment and rage against women. The classic insecure bully. When the misogyny combines with other extremist ideas, it can become very dangerous.

Involuntary celibate.

They believe women have all the sexual power these days. However, it goes much deeper than that. That article suggests some of the more extreme beliefs.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Involuntary celibate.

They believe women have all the sexual power these days. However, it goes much deeper than that. That article suggests some of the more extreme beliefs.

Yes, it's disturbing (and disgusting) stuff. If these 'Incels' are some kind of movement or fraternity, I would be interested to know how big it is. How many angry young men get drawn into it?

[SChibs]

The government are to blame for a motiveless (alleged) murder by a 14 year old and the resultant destruction of a family's life? That's quite a stretch and, as far as I can see from the details released so far in this case, based on little more than a desire to find a way of blaming the government for all the woes of the world.

The only person to blame is the perpetrator whose age (especially for those with similarly-aged children) is what will shock/depress most of those reading this story.

I think its a bit of a stretch to say the boy is only person/thing that can be blamed. I'd say it's a variety of things. Kids are easily influenced and manipulated and much of what children become is from the culture they are brought up into. Of course the boy should be punished for his crime but not every child stabs people, there's a reason why he found himself in this situation

[hibsbollah]

Yes, it's disturbing (and disgusting) stuff. If these 'Incels' are some kind of movement or fraternity, I would be interested to know how big it is. How many angry young men get drawn into it?

It’s a terrorist incident. It would be described as such if the perp was from a different crazy background.

[Billy Whizz]

How do these people access guns?

[neil7908]

Yes, it's disturbing (and disgusting) stuff. If these 'Incels' are some kind of movement or fraternity, I would be interested to know how big it is. How many angry young men get drawn into it?

Honestly they are the biggest bunch of losers, weirdos and man babies around. Hate women because they aren't interested in them, not surprising as they view women as objects.

Unfortunately at this time in our civilization anyone with a chip on their shoulder can find some group of wackos online that feed and grow their resentment rather than telling them to grow the f up.

[Moulin Yarns]

How do these people access guns?

He has a legal licence.

[He's here!]

I think its a bit of a stretch to say the boy is only person/thing that can be blamed. I'd say it's a variety of things. Kids are easily influenced and manipulated and much of what children become is from the culture they are brought up into. Of course the boy should be punished for his crime but not every child stabs people, there's a reason why he found himself in this situation

Thankfully they don't, but this one 'found himself in a situation' where he apparently felt the course of action he should take was to murder a man who may or may not have been known to him. It's OK to regard that as first and foremost a despicable act before looking for some sort of 'reason'.

[He's here!]

Horrific stuff. Has it been confirmed that it was his family he murdered?

Couple of papers reporting that one of the victims was his mother. It's unclear whether the three-year-old and her male relative were known or related to him. The rest appear to simply have been in the vicinity of a lunatic with a gun.

[Just Alf]

Couple of papers reporting that one of the victims was his mother. It's unclear whether the three-year-old and her male relative were known or related to him. The rest appear to simply have been in the vicinity of a lunatic with a gun.Horrendous.. 1st victom was his mother he's then left the house and killed people randomly, what possessed him to shoot a 3 year old child?


Just posted your the BBC a minute ago...

BBC News - Plymouth shooting: Maxine Davison, killer's mother, was first victim
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58206101

[SChibs]

It’s a terrorist incident. It would be described as such if the perp was from a different crazy background.

It would be described wrongly if the person was from a different background.

[SChibs]

Thankfully they don't, but this one 'found himself in a situation' where he apparently felt the course of action he should take was to murder a man who may or may not have been known to him. It's OK to regard that as first and foremost a despicable act before looking for some sort of 'reason'.

You're right it's a despicable act. My point was we should be looking at the cause of the child going down this way and try to change that or things will never change. Potentially killing people or going to jail isn't deterring these kids. Money should be piled into preventing them getting to this stage

[hibsbollah]

It would be described wrongly if the person was from a different background.

Terrorism; the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

:dunno: I’m surprised you don’t think so.

[Hiber-nation]

He has a legal licence.

Do we know why it was granted?

[SChibs]

Terrorism; the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

:dunno: I’m surprised you don’t think so.

What was the political aim?

[Block]

That culture is mostly a by product of the drug trade. The govt think it’s a price worth paying for the war on drugs.


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Drugs ruin lives. My niece was an addict for many years. A lovely beautiful girl until getting hooked up with users. Drugs completely ruined her life. Get drugs tae ****.

[Stairway 2 7]

What was the political aim?

It was incel. Been many other shootings over the same thing

[lord bunberry]

It was incel. Been many other shootings over the same thing
That’s not been established yet. I find the whole concept so completely ridiculous that I can’t ever believe that someone would kill for it. I suppose it’s happened so I’m wrong, but come on to ****. Geezers who can’t get a ride have become a terrorist organisation.

[lord bunberry]

I used to just go home and knock one out.

[SChibs]

It was incel. Been many other shootings over the same thing

There was a good thread on reddit with people discussing whether or not it was terrorism. I'm undecided.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio-man-charged-hate-crime-related-plot-conduct-mass-shooting-women-illegal-possession

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack

All the other incel attacks have been called terrorism. His hasn't been established but rants about it on YouTube point to that

[Moulin Yarns]

Do we know why it was granted?

No, but there are a number of legitimate reasons for having a firearms licence.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/plymouth-shooting-the-uks-gun-laws-who-can-have-a-firearm-and-which-types-are-legal-12380510

I could legally get a shotgun, air rifle and high power rifle licence because I live in a rural area, the first 2 can be used for pest control or sport, and the high power rifle as part of my former work to control invasive species such as American mink or grey squirrel.

[JimBHibees]

No, but there are a number of legitimate reasons for having a firearms licence.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/plymouth-shooting-the-uks-gun-laws-who-can-have-a-firearm-and-which-types-are-legal-12380510

I could legally get a shotgun, air rifle and high power rifle licence because I live in a rural area, the first 2 can be used for pest control or sport, and the high power rifle as part of my former work to control invasive species such as American mink or grey squirrel.

He was a crane driver and had a pump action shotgun which I am assuming is one where you don't have to reload after each shot. He had his shotgun taken off him last year because of an assault accusation then was given it back a month ago. Given he had video rants on social media seems a proper lack of due diligence by the local police force as you would assume a social media search would/should be part of the process in clearing someone to hold a gun licence.

[neil7908]

He was a crane driver and had a pump action shotgun which I am assuming is one where you don't have to reload after each shot. He had his shotgun taken off him last year because of an assault accusation then was given it back a month ago. Given he had video rants on social media seems a proper lack of due diligence by the local police force as you would assume a social media search would/should be part of the process in clearing someone to hold a gun licence.

I know we're far removed from the US gun culture but I still find it bizarre that it seems very simple to own a gun over here. What possible reason does anyone have to own a gun in the UK? Why would this be guy living in Plymouth need a shotgun?

I know after Dunblane the laws were tightened. It feels to me like this needs looked at again.

[Moulin Yarns]

I know we're far removed from the US gun culture but I still find it bizarre that it seems very simple to own a gun over here. What possible reason does anyone have to own a gun in the UK? Why would this be guy living in Plymouth need a shotgun?

I know after Dunblane the laws were tightened. It feels to me like this needs looked at again.

My post at 9:30 gives some examples of why I could have a firearms licence.

[Stairway 2 7]

My post at 9:30 gives some examples of why I could have a firearms licence.

The sport example should be banned immediately. For pest control it should be the least power to kill the animal and only for someone that proves they need to do it I would think.

[Ozyhibby]

If there has been any error at all in the returning of this weapon and license then it should result in criminal charges and instant dismissal of all involved.


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[Scouse Hibee]

The sport example should be banned immediately. For pest control it should be the least power to kill the animal and only for someone that proves they need to do it I would think.

The sport is a legitimate reason, are you suggesting no one should be allowed to target or clay shoot? Both are Olympic sports.

[Stairway 2 7]

The sport is a legitimate reason, are you suggesting no one should be allowed to target or clay shoot? Both are Olympic sports.

Yes take up snooker or lazer shooting, rather a weapon in the world that can blooter a bairn. They moaned when they couldn't rip foxes to shreds also, same to them take up another sport

[Sir David Gray]

The sport example should be banned immediately. For pest control it should be the least power to kill the animal and only for someone that proves they need to do it I would think.

Shooting's an Olympic sport, that exemption's not going to be scrapped.

[Scouse Hibee]

Yes take up snooker or lazer shooting, rather a weapon in the world that can blooter a bairn. They moaned when they couldn't rip foxes to shreds also, same to them take up another sport

What if I blootered someone with my snooker cue?

[Stairway 2 7]

Shooting's an Olympic sport, that exemption's not going to be scrapped.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2006/jan/17/comment.gdnsport3

Like when handguns were banned in the UK and they had to train abroad or quit.

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2019/3/16/at-the-olympics-no-more-guns

The Olympics comitee are sympathetic to the plea to end guns at the Olympics, as the games are a symbol of peace. 2 shooting events 50m rifle prone, 50m pistol and Double Trap have been removed this year after decades. They have been replaced by air pistol events. Shooting is slowly on the way out

Shooting was removed completely from commonwealth games in Birmingham next year. But India said they wouldn't compete in the games if it stood. The Shooting events are now being held in India 6 months before the games start in Birmingham

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/51615062

[Stairway 2 7]

What if I blootered someone with my snooker cue?

Try and kill 30 with it, without getting done in yourself. Ridiculous comparison

[Moulin Yarns]

The sport example should be banned immediately. For pest control it should be the least power to kill the animal and only for someone that proves they need to do it I would think.

There were 10 shooting events at the Olympics, what about them?

To ensure a clean, humane despatch of mink and squirrel there is a minimum velocity required for the rifle to be used.

[Ozyhibby]

Shooting's an Olympic sport, that exemption's not going to be scrapped.

Then licenses should only be issued for Olympic quality weapons. And should only be given to those registered with the relevant porting bodies and who have a consistent record of competing in events.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Then licenses should only be issued for Olympic quality weapons. And should only be given to those registered with the relevant porting bodies and who have a consistent record of competing in events.


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Gamekeepers need rifles as well.

[Stairway 2 7]

Then licenses should only be issued for Olympic quality weapons. And should only be given to those registered with the relevant porting bodies and who have a consistent record of competing in events.


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And stored at the training centre and signed out when used like other countries do

[Stairway 2 7]

Gamekeepers need rifles as well.

There should be no more guns than are completely needed for for culling animals

[Stairway 2 7]

There were 10 shooting events at the Olympics, what about them?

To ensure a clean, humane despatch of mink and squirrel there is a minimum velocity required for the rifle to be used.

Did you read my post above. We banned handguns and our Olympians had to move abroad or give up. They would have been banned in the commonwealth games if we didn't bow down to India. Its on the way out. I'd be proud of the UK if they didn't send a shooting team

[Moulin Yarns]

Did you read my post above. We banned handguns and our Olympians had to move abroad or give up. They would have been banned in the commonwealth games if we didn't bow down to India. Its on the way out. I'd be proud of the UK if they didn't send a shooting team

They're rubbish anyway, only 1 bronze out of 10 events in Tokyo 😉

[Scouse Hibee]

Try and kill 30 with it, without getting done in yourself. Ridiculous comparison

Not as ridiculous as you trying to ban Olympic sports.

[SChibs]

Did you read my post above. We banned handguns and our Olympians had to move abroad or give up. They would have been banned in the commonwealth games if we didn't bow down to India. Its on the way out. I'd be proud of the UK if they didn't send a shooting team

Shooting is still a skill. Do you think these shooting teams aim at people in their spare time? People should be able to practice shooting in a controlled and safe environment. Would you be proud if the UK didn't send an archery team?

[lapsedhibee]

Shooting is still a skill. Do you think these shooting teams aim at people in their spare time? People should be able to practice shooting in a controlled and safe environment. Would you be proud if the UK didn't send an archery team?

Pump-action bows can gtf.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not as ridiculous as you trying to ban Olympic sports.

Yeah me personally 😆 it's gained so much traction over the last 10 years that it was banned from the commonwealth games. Still pretty much is as it will be the only event held in India with the rest in Birmingham.

[Stairway 2 7]

Shooting is still a skill. Do you think these shooting teams aim at people in their spare time? People should be able to practice shooting in a controlled and safe environment. Would you be proud if the UK didn't send an archery team?

If there was mass terrorist bow hunting killings going on or thousands of lives lost to them weekly, then yes.

I already said in other countries the you can only shoot at designated places and you check the gun out and back in, that would be a start. The fact any country person can get a gun and say its for sport is ridiculous

[Moulin Yarns]

Let's be honest a total ban on guns of any kind will just drive it underground and the criminal classes will control them.

A legal requirement to register with the police is the best option, even if it is a tick box exercise.

There are a number of legitimate reasons for having one, and that is where it needs to be tightened up.

[SChibs]

If there was mass terrorist bow hunting killings going on or thousands of lives lost to them weekly, then yes.

I already said in other countries the you can only shoot at designated places and you check the gun out and back in, that would be a start. The fact any country person can get a gun and say its for sport is ridiculous

As I said, a controlled and safe environment.

[SChibs]

Let's be honest a total ban on guns of any kind will just drive it underground and the criminal classes will control them.

A legal requirement to register with the police is the best option, even if it is a tick box exercise.

There are a number of legitimate reasons for having one, and that is where it needs to be tightened up.

It hasn't worked for drugs, and it won't work for gun. If someone wants a gun enough they will get their hands on one. It's all about making it harder

[Onceinawhile]

That’s not been established yet. I find the whole concept so completely ridiculous that I can’t ever believe that someone would kill for it. I suppose it’s happened so I’m wrong, but come on to ****. Geezers who can’t get a ride have become a terrorist organisation.

You must be a total Chad.

Unfortunately, it seems people get in to it at a low point in their life and the whole chat about it sucks them in and makes them angry at the world.

That makes it even less likely they'll meet a partner and a horrible cycle ensues.

[Hibernia&Alba]

But a three year old toddler. Shooting anyone is difficult to imagine, but to be capable of pointing a pump shot gun at a three old and pulling the trigger is impossible to envision. A few years ago I read a book on the Hungerford massacre of Michael Ryan, back in 1987, which was the first spree killing with a firearm in Britain. He killed sixteen people that day, but even he didn't target children. His first victim that day was a mother on a picnic with her two kids. He put the kids in the car and walked the mother away before killing her. Of course at Dunblane Thomas Hamilton specifically targeted young children. I'm not qualified to know the state of mind of someone capable of shooting kids in cold blood.

[Sir David Gray]

It's at times like this that I really want to believe in the existence of Hell.

Absolutely senseless crime, I hope the families and friends of those who have died receive the help that they need and I hope this guy is currently burning in Hell.

[Kato]

You must be a total Chad.

Unfortunately, it seems people get in to it at a low point in their life and the whole chat about it sucks them in and makes them angry at the world.

Same with anyone who is groomed to be radicalised.

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[Stairway 2 7]

A good point

Simon Blackwell
@simonblackwell
If journalists can, within minutes, find YouTube videos and forum posts that indicate the Plymouth murderer was a dangerous man, why couldn't whoever decided to return his shotgun licence have made the same checks

[Block]

You must be a total Chad.

Unfortunately, it seems people get in to it at a low point in their life and the whole chat about it sucks them in and makes them angry at the world.

That makes it even less likely they'll meet a partner and a horrible cycle ensues.

Companionship is much more important than sex for me personally but I appreciate its an age thing. When I was younger I was as rampant a bull as the next horny young buck but had many more knockbacks than successes but never took them personally.

Crazy maybe?

Definitely.

[He's here!]

That’s not been established yet. I find the whole concept so completely ridiculous that I can’t ever believe that someone would kill for it. I suppose it’s happened so I’m wrong, but come on to ****. Geezers who can’t get a ride have become a terrorist organisation.

Spot on. He wasn't a terrorist, he was a homicidal nutter who found some like-minded loonies online. As you say, it sums up today's 'identity' culture and its obsession with putting a label on everything that people are seriously trying to categorise a clearly unstable bloke who couldn't get a girlfriend along with the likes of IS or the IRA.

The serious focus here should be on how on earth his shotgun licence was renewed.

[Onceinawhile]

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1426481255961579520?s=19

[Kato]

Spot on. He wasn't a terrorist, he was a homicidal nutter who found some like-minded loonies online. As you say, it sums up today's 'identity' culture and its obsession with putting a label on everything that people are seriously trying to categorise a clearly unstable bloke who couldn't get a girlfriend along with the likes of IS or the IRA.

The serious focus here should be on how on earth his shotgun licence was renewed.Is this a "lone wolf" assertion?

The links to far-right groups and philosophies along with 50 murders so far would suggest otherwise.

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[Ozyhibby]

Is this a "lone wolf" assertion?

The links to far-right groups and philosophies along with 50 murders so far would suggest otherwise.

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If your white, your a lone wolf. Anything else our a terrorist. You know the rules.[emoji6]


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[He's here!]

Is this a "lone wolf" assertion?

The links to far-right groups and philosophies along with 50 murders so far would suggest otherwise.

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No, just an observation that, sadly, there have always been men like this who nurse a grievance and take out their rage on others. Terrorist organisations, vile as they are, have a coherent cause and rationale for armed struggle. Misogyny isn't terrorism and it would be ridiculous to tar the many men who are involuntarily celibate but would never even consider going berserk with a shotgun with that term.

Some people are just sad, bitter nutters.

[Kato]

No, just an observation that, sadly, there have always been men like this who nurse a grievance and take out their rage on others. Terrorist organisations, vile as they are, have a coherent cause and rationale for armed struggle. Misogyny isn't terrorism and it would be ridiculous to tar the many men who are involuntarily celibate but would never even consider going berserk with a shotgun with that term.

Some people are just sad, bitter nutters.Given you can see a conspiracy whenever someone from the SNP forgets to cross a T or passes the salt too slowly I'm struggling to get over how tone deaf you are being here. This twat conspired online with like minded people and bought into a warped philosophy before heading out and killing five people. Those like minded people are celebrating his actions and are still spreading that philosophy now that he is dead.

I've no doubt there Muslims who dream of the caliphate or IRA supporters who wouldnt dream of picking up arms but the philosophy is there for them to do so. Insulting other guys who can't get a girlfriend but who dont follow this philosophy is by the by.

Writing it off as "misogyny" when the phenomena is way past that and way more nuanced, articulated and dangerous is dangerous in itself.

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[heretoday]

There are getting on for one million illegally held firearms (I read) in the UK. Obviously, it's hard to keep track of the individuals who own them.

But how do people like Davison justify to authorities owning a gun in the first place? He wasn't a farmer or anything.

[Haymaker]

There are getting on for one million illegally held firearms (I read) in the UK. Obviously, it's hard to keep track of the individuals who own them.

But how do people like Davison justify to authorities owning a gun in the first place? He wasn't a farmer or anything.

My brother owns three shotguns and lives in Southampton, England. It was a relatively easy process and he target shoots at a couple clay sites.