Europe, what’s the point

[Real Emerald]

In modern times it seems a pointless target qualifying for Europe for Hibs. We were ill prepared squad wise as usual and potentially losing players for the league and cup campaign due to injuries. We have no depth in defence and no depth in attack. The bygone days of competing in Europe has gone. Let’s focus on winning cups and beating Hearts in Scotland. It was a very poor performance.

[Stuart93]

In modern times it seems a pointless target qualifying for Europe for Hibs. We were ill prepared squad wise as usual and potentially losing players for the league and cup campaign due to injuries. We have no depth in defence and no depth in attack. The bygone days of competing in Europe has gone. Let’s focus on winning cups and beating Hearts in Scotland. It was a very poor performance.

Aye through the season it’s all about qualifying for Europe. Then when it comes round we seem to treat it as a “bonus”. It really makes you question the point of it.

[H18 SFR]

When we qualify for Europe I’m instantly buzzing at the thought of a trip away.

I agree with the comments about winning silverware being more important.

[madhatter]

We look to strengthen after getting knocked out of Europe to then try to qualify for Europe the following season.

Seems sensible enough.

Europe every season is pretty much guaranteed, right?

[Andy74]

Aye through the season it’s all about qualifying for Europe. Then when it comes round we seem to treat it as a “bonus”. It really makes you question the point of it.

I think everyone wants to progress. You need really good luck with draws and you need to have a team together. For clubs like ours that’s tough because it is difficult to keep good players for long or to get all your targets early to improve.

The theory on improving year on year and getting the right players in is that this time next year you hope to have more good players already under contract and staying with us. That gives a better chance of getting through.

[He's here!]

I agree it's overrated these days. There are way too many teams involved which necessitates playing European ties in pre-season and IMHO does us little good.

Mind you the League Cup group games are an even less enticing alternative.

[Smartie]

"Europe" is the land of financial opportunity that would allow our club to move up a level and it should be taken very seriously indeed.

Anyone who talks about "just a bonus" or a "free hit" shouldn't be at our club.

European progression should be the cornerstone of what we need to do, and it is an arena in which we should measure ourselves.

Failures in Europe should be scrutinised and rigorously learned from.

[Stuart93]

I think everyone wants to progress. You need really good luck with draws and you need to have a team together. For clubs like ours that’s tough because it is difficult to keep good players for long or to get all your targets early to improve.

The theory on improving year on year and getting the right players in is that this time next year you hope to have more good players already under contract and staying with us. That gives a better chance of getting through.

But it’s far from guaranteed every year though so when we get into Europe surely we need to make sure we’re in a position to give it our best shot? Again this year we’ve been under prepared like we have been the majority of other European appearances.

Let’s say we don’t make Europe this season and we were to get there next again. Will we still be saying the same thing “we’ll be better prepared next year”? Does any absence from European football mean this cycle of doing better next season in Europe restart?

[Block]

I agree it's overrated these days. There are way too many teams involved which necessitates playing European ties in pre-season and IMHO does us little good.

Mind you the League Cup group games are an even less enticing alternative.

Totally agree. Our focus is finishing as high up the league as we can and going as far as we can in the Cups. Europe is a bonus and I'd have loved to gone further but it wasn't to be. Hey ho.

Move on to Sunday.

[Stuart93]

Totally agree. Our focus is finishing as high up the league as we can and going as far as we can in the Cups. Europe is a bonus and I'd have loved to gone further but it wasn't to be. Hey ho.

Move on to Sunday.

It’s not a bonus. That attitudes pish and I certainly hope the club don’t take the same view on it. We will never progress if that’s the case.

[Pretty Boy]

Europe is what it is.

For clubs like Hibs who are almost always in transition it takes a fair amount of serendipity to progress.

We qualify for Europe, we lack depth and/or quality, we get knocked out early , we say we will be better prepared next time, we get knocked out early and repeat.

It's the cycle we are in when you hit that glass ceiling. A decent league team but one that will always be either a couple of player short or waiting to replace good players when Europe rolls around. The group stages of any European competition are a pipe dream for us.

Of course that leads to people questioning why we get so worked up about qualifying in the 1st place but that's the nature of competition. You finish 3rd then great, the prize is a few more pounds, an early defeat in Europe and a head start on finishing 3rd to repeat the journey the following year. As I said it's a glass ceiling and recent history shows it's not one any Scottish team outwith the OF is breaking through.

[EdinburghHibern]

Would people have taken a league cup win last season with no Europe or the season we had and European campaign we just had?

[madhatter]

Totally agree. Our focus is finishing as high up the league as we can and going as far as we can in the Cups. Europe is a bonus and I'd have loved to gone further but it wasn't to be. Hey ho.

Move on to Sunday.

We'll never progress as a club with this sadly. Not unless European/global football changes. Approximately £2m for reaching the group stages of the 3rd tier of European competition. What prize money do we get for finishing 3rd or winning a League Cup? I'm sure Ron Gordon knows that to grow and progress as a football club we need to do something in Europe. It really is that simple. There is virtually no money in Scottish football. Even winning the league wouldn't transform Hibs as a club.

There is a reason Celtic and Rangers need and crave after Champions League football and people bring up the "can they move to the Premier League down south" argument. No money in Scottish football so they need to get it elsewhere.

[Ronniekirk]

Aberdeen have a chance to progress to the group stages and they were ***** at the end of last season
But they have brought players in early and had a kinder draw than us
But if they do make the group stages then they could well get third this season
What annoys me is the Riss said our priority was a Centre Half and a Striker and we haven’t got iether yet
So with Hanlon snd Doidge missing tonight our bench was depleted
Daz was never going to last the whole match in that heat and as booked it was odds on he could end up getting a red But the manner it occurred in couldn’t of been foreseen
Nesbit isn’t a lone striker , Boyle didn’t use that pace if his to same effect Not sure why
McGinn is getting in in years and was just a stop gap buy But with Cadden injured we hVe no one to replace him
Ironically we have sited the midfield out

Ron Gordon has to now decide if he is serious about us competing at the top of the League ,winning cups and progressing to group stages in Europe
It would be a kick in the teeth if Aberdeen now go on and get into group stages
We can still have a good season but not without more investment in players and recruitment team getting the right quality of player in Ideally selling no one
So big few weeks ahead
If we give up on Europe we will probably then not consistently finish third potentially
But tonight hurts as at 1 1 we looked capable of going on to win the tie



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[Stuart93]

Would people have taken a league cup win last season with no Europe or the season we had and European campaign we just had?

League cup every single time, purely for the experience of winning another cup. Finishing 3rd and getting a couple ties in Europe isn’t really that exciting.

If the choice was finishing 3rd and reaching the groups I think the choice would be tougher

[Block]

It’s not a bonus. That attitudes pish and I certainly hope the club don’t take the same view on it. We will never progress if that’s the case.

Europe is a bonus. Its a bonus prize for finishing very high up the league. No guarantee we'll finish third every year. Hope we do obviously and that when we do we give it a good shot. We would have won that tonight if Daz hadn't had a rush of blood. It happens. Get over it and look forward to the next match.

[Andy74]

But it’s far from guaranteed every year though so when we get into Europe surely we need to make sure we’re in a position to give it our best shot? Again this year we’ve been under prepared like we have been the majority of other European appearances.

Let’s say we don’t make Europe this season and we were to get there next again. Will we still be saying the same thing “we’ll be better prepared next year”? Does any absence from European football mean this cycle of doing better next season in Europe restart?

The way to increase the chances of being there every year is to get the best players you can and then try and keep them.

It is frustrating just now but we probably could have got a half decent centre half in and gone through tonight. In theory.

That centre half could end up being bang average from now and we don’t finish 3rd again.

Or, in the next couple of weeks we could get a quality centre half who is our top target. They go on to help us get 3rd.

When Europe comes round next time we already have them, we have all the other players on long contracts still here and doing well. That’s what we are aiming for and why it is important to build the team and club up and not just to get through another round in the short term.

Doing both of course would be more ideal.

[Smartie]

Aberdeen have a chance to progress to the group stages and they were ***** at the end of last season
But they have brought players in early and had a kinder draw than us
But if they do make the group stages then they could well get third this season
What annoys me is the Riss said our priority was a Centre Half and a Striker and we haven’t got iether yet
So with Hanlon snd Doidge missing tonight our bench was depleted
Daz was never going to last the whole match in that heat and as booked it was odds on he could end up getting a red But the manner it occurred in couldn’t of been foreseen
Nesbit isn’t a lone striker , Boyle didn’t use that pace if his to same effect Not sure why
McGinn is getting in in years and was just a stop gap buy But with Cadden injured we hVe no one to replace him
Ironically we have sited the midfield out

Ron Gordon has to now decide if he is serious about us competing at the top of the League ,winning cups and progressing to group stages in Europe
It would be a kick in the teeth if Aberdeen now go on and get into group stages
We can still have a good season but not without more investment in players and recruitment team getting the right quality of player in Ideally selling no one
So big few weeks ahead
If we give up on Europe we will probably then not consistently finish third potentially
But tonight hurts as at 1 1 we looked capable of going on to win the tie



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The point about Aberdeen is a good one.

Getting there will give them another financial boost over us.

After managing to finish above them last season, should it be a realistic prospect for them to reach the group stages but a "pipe dream" to us?

I don't think they're progressing because of luckier draws than us. We got a trickier draw than them, yes, but we're out because of our own failings. We were beaten by a transitional Rijeka, not peak Barcelona. If Aberdeen go through it is because they've done what they needed to, and they can use the money generated from their run to try to ensure that they don't finish behind us in the league again.

Europe is a big deal. It should be treated as such.

[Andy74]

League cup every single time, purely for the experience of winning another cup. Finishing 3rd and getting a couple ties in Europe isn’t really that exciting.

If the choice was finishing 3rd and reaching the groups I think the choice would be tougher

So are you bothered about Europe or not? A minute ago everything should have been geared to going through. Now it’s not that interesting to qualify for anyway.

[Pretty Boy]

Would people have taken a league cup win last season with no Europe or the season we had and European campaign we just had?

League Cup every time. My 2nd best memory of watching Hibs was winning the LC in 2007.

Hibs in Europe for me is largely forgettable. My generation doesn't have Napoli, Sporting Lisbon or Barcelona.

[Stuart93]

The way to increase the chances of being there every year is to get the best players you can and then try and keep them.

It is frustrating just now but we probably could have got a half decent centre half in and gone through tonight. In theory.

That centre half could end up being bang average from now and we don’t finish 3rd again.

Or, in the next couple of weeks we could get a quality centre half who is our top target. They go on to help us get 3rd.

When Europe comes round next time we already have them, we have all the other players on long contracts still here and doing well. That’s what we are aiming for and why it is important to build the team and club up and not just to get through another round in the short term.

Doing both of course would be more ideal.

But if the defender we sign turns out to be absolutely quality he’ll no doubt end up down the road or along the M8.

I agree with the poster who brought up the glass ceiling idea.

[Stuart93]

So are you bothered about Europe or not? A minute ago everything should have been geared to going through. Now it’s not that interesting to qualify for anyway.

Aye but the option was win the league cup or perform how we just have in Europe. That was the choices. We absolutely should be geared towards getting to the groups but that wasn’t an option.

[Andy74]

The point about Aberdeen is a good one.

Getting there will give them another financial boost over us.

After managing to finish above them last season, should it be a realistic prospect for them to reach the group stages but a "pipe dream" to us?

I don't think they're progressing because of luckier draws than us. We got a trickier draw than them, yes, but we're out because of our own failings. If they go through it is because they've done what they needed to, and they can use the money generated from their run to try to ensure that they don't finish behind us again.

Europe is a big deal. It should be treated as such.

Easier to do what they needed to do against poor teams though. The draw has a massive amount to do with it.

This Aberdeen thing is funny. Basically we only got 3rd because they were crap. We’ve already started the league ahead of them but now they are the benchmark again because they won an easier European tie?

[Andy74]

But if the defender we sign turns out to be absolutely quality he’ll no doubt end up down the road or along the M8.

I agree with the poster who brought up the glass ceiling idea.

Best just give it all up then really.

[Ozyhibby]

Europe is what it is.

For clubs like Hibs who are almost always in transition it takes a fair amount of serendipity to progress.

We qualify for Europe, we lack depth and/or quality, we get knocked out early , we say we will be better prepared next time, we get knocked out early and repeat.

It's the cycle we are in when you hit that glass ceiling. A decent league team but one that will always be either a couple of player short or waiting to replace good players when Europe rolls around. The group stages of any European competition are a pipe dream for us.

Of course that leads to people questioning why we get so worked up about qualifying in the 1st place but that's the nature of competition. You finish 3rd then great, the prize is a few more pounds, an early defeat in Europe and a head start on finishing 3rd to repeat the journey the following year. As I said it's a glass ceiling and recent history shows it's not one any Scottish team outwith the OF is breaking through.

I disagree. We mostly go out to teams with smaller stadiums and mallet budgets than us. That means we are doing something wrong.


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[stantonhibby]

But if the defender we sign turns out to be absolutely quality he’ll no doubt end up down the road or along the M8.

I agree with the poster who brought up the glass ceiling idea.

Just bore off.....multiple posts on multiple threads going on and on about how crap we are. Major drama queen on every match thread.

[Centre Hawf]

I love being in Europe and I dream of watching us in a group stage and having a proper go at teams. I only wish the club were quicker to get themselves ready for European games when they come round, especially considering it's what we strive for every season.

[Ozyhibby]

I love being in Europe and I dream of watching us in a group stage and having a proper go at teams. I only wish the club were quicker to get themselves ready for European games when they come round, especially considering it's what we strive for every season.

Totally agree. We went into tonight with a full back who has been getting torn to shreds for months now and a 36 year old centre half who barely trains and hasn’t played for months. That’s is just abysmal planning by the club.
Not really the two players fault, even though it will be them taking the abuse.


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[bingo70]

Easier to do what they needed to do against poor teams though. The draw has a massive amount to do with it.

This Aberdeen thing is funny. Basically we only got 3rd because they were crap. We’ve already started the league ahead of them but now they are the benchmark again because they won an easier European tie?

They hammered a Swedish team to get to this stage.

Imo if we’d have drawn against a Swedish side we’d have played it overly cagey and come away out the competition moaning about fine margins.

If they’d played an Andorran side and an Icelandic one I’d have agreed with you FWIW.

[Stuart93]

Just bore off.....multiple posts on multiple threads going on and on about how crap we are. Major drama queen on every match thread.

Have I said we’re crap? Or have I at least tried to provide some insight into my opinion?

It certainly contributing a lot more than what your ***** post is

[Smartie]

Easier to do what they needed to do against poor teams though. The draw has a massive amount to do with it.

This Aberdeen thing is funny. Basically we only got 3rd because they were crap. We’ve already started the league ahead of them but now they are the benchmark again because they won an easier European tie?

Leaving Aberdeen to one side for a minute - having watched 180 minutes of us playing against Rijeka, I don't think it was even close to being the rigorous, stern test that some of our recent (going back 20 or so years to AEK) European games have been. That was a winnable tie against a transitional (the words of one of their own fans) team who had a couple of handy players but looked beatable over the 2 legs. I'm frustrated at our own weakness and irritated that our own shortcomings have stopped us going through.

Aberdeen may or may not have got lucky with the draw. At this stage in the season I don't know much about Aberdeen, I know less about the Icelandic team they played although I know they were good enough to knock out a (probably) decent Austrian side in the last round.

The bottom line is - Aberdeen got the job done. We didn't. That brings with it a financial advantage, a serious one if they reach the ground stages.

In terms of our league performances and the likelihood of getting back into Europe, Aberdeen most likely ARE the benchmark. And for long periods of last season they were utter pish. A bit like Aberdeen beating weaker opponents, at least we got the job done and finished above them, that's all that really matters.

You'd expect them to improve on last season. And if they get big European bucks, the chances are they'll improve next season.

Will we improve or will we still be dicking about talking about fine margins and going into ties with a threadbare squad, moaning about difficult draws? I'd like to have more confidence not...

[Block]

I disagree. We mostly go out to teams with smaller stadiums and mallet budgets than us. That means we are doing something wrong.


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Isn't Croatia's national rankings a good bit above ours. Maybe they just have a better pool of players to choose from? Nothing to do with stadiums or budgets.

[Stevie Reid]

Totally agree. We went into tonight with a full back who has been getting torn to shreds for months now and a 36 year old centre half who barely trains and hasn’t played for months. That’s is just abysmal planning by the club.
Not really the two players fault, even though it will be them taking the abuse.


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Come on man. McGinn had a very bad night tonight, and looks to have dropped off a bit from his peak performances, but it is a complete lie that he has been getting torn to shreds for months.

As an aside, Lewis is a superb one on one full back, rarely gets skinned by anyone, and there’s plenty on this board who deride him for not being good enough going forward.

Daz came on as a sub for a long spell of the SC semi final, and started a hugely important game v Aberdeen at the end of last season, then against Celtic the following week. He was excellent in all of them - there was no indication at all that tonight was in the post.

We are definitely in need of a few more bodies, but we’ll always be a bit short with six of the first team squad injured.

[Andy74]

They hammered a Swedish team to get to this stage.

Imo if we’d have drawn against a Swedish side we’d have played it overly cagey and come away out the competition moaning about fine margins.

If they’d played an Andorran side and an Icelandic one I’d have agreed with you FWIW.

Are all Swedish teams good?

[Fergus52]

They hammered a Swedish team to get to this stage.

Imo if we’d have drawn against a Swedish side we’d have played it overly cagey and come away out the competition moaning about fine margins.

If they’d played an Andorran side and an Icelandic one I’d have agreed with you FWIW.

That Swedish team are miles off Rijeka if you look at European performances in recent years.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Europe is what it is.

For clubs like Hibs who are almost always in transition it takes a fair amount of serendipity to progress.

We qualify for Europe, we lack depth and/or quality, we get knocked out early , we say we will be better prepared next time, we get knocked out early and repeat.

It's the cycle we are in when you hit that glass ceiling. A decent league team but one that will always be either a couple of player short or waiting to replace good players when Europe rolls around. The group stages of any European competition are a pipe dream for us.

Of course that leads to people questioning why we get so worked up about qualifying in the 1st place but that's the nature of competition. You finish 3rd then great, the prize is a few more pounds, an early defeat in Europe and a head start on finishing 3rd to repeat the journey the following year. As I said it's a glass ceiling and recent history shows it's not one any Scottish team outwith the OF is breaking through.

im not so sure. The Europa conference league group stage should absolutely be achievable for a club like Hibs. Indeed Aberdeen may well make it this season.

as to the initial question what’s the point. I don’t know. Winning a European competition is impossible for us. So you may as well ask what’s the point in playing in the Scottish league, after all it’s also pretty much impossible to win. There are only two trophies that we have a chance of winning and they will always be more important to me than European football.

for me, getting to Europe and progressing as far as we can is worth it for two reasons. Financial (as instantly forgettable as this seasons venture will be it has still bagged us hundreds of thousands of pounds - probably a couple of years worth of HSL donations in the space of a month)... and this is money that will hopefully give us a better chance of winning the aforementioned two trophies. If we ever do make the group stage which I believe is entirely possible it will be very lucrative indeed. Possibly gamechanging.

Secondly, two or three trips to the continent, especially in far flung obscure places that I’d never otherwise be in, with fellow Hibs fans can be a very, very enjoyable experience.
I personally don’t envy fans of champions league clubs getting basically much the same away trips year after year. What we get is a throw back to the old days of European football when you knew nothing about the opposition and very little about where they come from. I quite like it, even if I wish we were a bit more successful at it.

[Greenbeard]

Often thought that of Europe. Way over-rated. Apart maybe from the final countdown each league season.:wink:

[bingo70]

Are all Swedish teams good?

Dunno, from a country that appears to have a decent pedigree though and they qualified from Europe from it so I’d assume they’d have something about it.

I wouldn’t fancy our chances in a tight game against anyone though. The teams we beat are generally ones we are much better than player for player. I can’t think of many matches where we’ve raised our game to get a result.

Imo if we’d drawn against a team from Sweden or any other country with a decent pedigree we’d have been knocked out as I’ve no faith in this team tk deliver in a difficult game when it matters. I certainly just don’t think we’d have pumped a Swedish team 5-1 like Aberdeen did.

[Fergus52]

I disagree. We mostly go out to teams with smaller stadiums and mallet budgets than us. That means we are doing something wrong.


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You keep saying they have a smaller budget than us but where are you getting that from?

Smaller stadium and less fans doesn't equal smaller budget when you're playing in a different league.

Until very recently Croatia had a better TV deal than Scotland, and I'm also assuming it has been historically more evenly distributed than ours which used to funnel everything to the old firm. They've also qualified for the Europa groups twice in recent years, which when you add in a few wins and draws adds up to am extra £10million in prize money.

The salaries that the Rijeka posters was saying they pay also seemed higher than what our average wage probably is.

Two seasons ago they paid over £700k for a player, when did hibs last pay a fee like that?

All of the above suggests that they will have a larger budget than us.

[bingo70]

That Swedish team are miles off Rijeka if you look at European performances in recent years.

Aye but if you look at the result over 2 legs we were miles off Rijeka too.

[.Sean.]

The point is getting out and about and trying to go one step further than last. I’m raging still but we’ll come back from this

[Pagan Hibernia]

Aye but if you look at the result over 2 legs we were miles off Rijeka too.

we really weren’t miles off them. I don’t think they could have complained if they’d been beaten 4-1 last Thursday

[Fergus52]

Aye but if you look at the result over 2 legs we were miles off Rijeka too.

From watching both the games you know that's not true though.

Any way you look at it, on paper hacken are a lot worse than Rijeka.

Currently 8th in a lower ranked league, came third last season but usually finish mid table or lower. Best ever finish was 2nd place and have never qualified for European group stage.

Whereas Rijeka always come 2nd or 3rd in Croatian league and won it a few seasons ago, and have qualified for the Europa groups twice in recent years and had some great results such as beating AC Milan.

[.Sean.]

From watching both the games you know that's not true though.

Any way you look at it, on paper hacken are a lot worse than Rijeka.

Currently 8th in a lower ranked league, came third last season but usually finish mid table or lower. Best ever finish was 2nd place and have never qualified for European group stage.

Whereas Rijeka always come 2nd or 3rd in Croatian league and won it a few seasons ago, and have qualified for the Europa groups twice in recent years and had some great results such as beating AC Milan.
I get the ‘on paper’ argument but we were the better side over two full 90 mins and that can’t be argued

[.Sean.]

Aye but if you look at the result over 2 legs we were miles off Rijeka too.
Were we going to really though? We were better than them on every department til we gave them a goal?

[Smartie]

I get the ‘on paper’ argument but we were the better side over two full 90 mins and that can’t be argued

Unfortunately your defence holding out and taking your chances are integral parts of being "the better side" and they did it much better than us.

Not downplaying the fact that our midfield played some good stuff in the first leg, and had a bonny wee 10 minute spell around our goal, but we were not the better side.

We could have been, arguably should have been, but we weren't.

[007]

Were we going to really though? We were better than them on every department til we gave them a goal?

Are you saying we were better than them if you take away the goalposts?

[tonyrougier123]

Rijeka were absolutely guff!there was nothing redeeming about that side over two legs.
We blew it by being unprepared for Europe because as we are every season we were too slow in the transfer market.
Targets identified but not signed?no money?waiting til Christmas for our star signing not good enough for a club our size.two players in from smaller Scottish teams says it all.
Recruitment must be better or Europe is nothing more than a jolly for supporters before the inevitable.

[Magpie]

We could of had another bash at it next week if we had won that cup final. It was always going to be difficult after failing to win that.

Frustrating to see Aberdeen going further ahead than us after taking 3rd spot also.

[Ozyhibby]

We could of had another bash at it next week if we had won that cup final. It was always going to be difficult after failing to win that.

Frustrating to see Aberdeen going further ahead than us after taking 3rd spot also.

Aberdeen have been busy this summer getting ready for Europe.


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[MWHIBBIES]

We could of had another bash at it next week if we had won that cup final. It was always going to be difficult after failing to win that.

Frustrating to see Aberdeen going further ahead than us after taking 3rd spot also.

Drawing a part time Icelandic team will do that for you.

[MWHIBBIES]

Aberdeen have been busy this summer getting ready for Europe.


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They had a squad to rebuild for a new manager. Its very little to do with Europe

[Since452]

We would have beaten the part time Icelandic team too. I'm not concerned about Aberdeen. They just got a very good draw.

[flash]

We would have beaten the part time Icelandic team too. I'm not concerned about Aberdeen. They just got a very good draw.

They sure did. Rijeka then PAOK is a high end Europa League draw.

[madhatter]

They had a squad to rebuild for a new manager. Its very little to do with Europe

Rebuild a squad for a new manager with the intent on doing well in the league. Dare I say it, finishing 3rd and getting Europe? Very little to do with Europe...yes.

[The Spaceman]

We basically had a role-reversal of the first leg yesterday but Rijeka put their chances away aided by some horrific defending and McGregor being an idiot. A bad result over two legs but the margins are a lot finer than the scoreline suggests.

This Hibs team are still a work in progress and have started the season well. We do desperately need a new CB and RB though. As in break the bank and sign Jason Kerr.

[bigwheel]

Europe is great ..well worth the effort . We are coming along pretty well in my opinion. We matched a good European side in the tie. If we kept 11 on the park we were as likely to go through as they were.

It’s a learning process for our players and manager. We didn’t get goals when we could have in the first leg, they did in the second. Daz getting sent off made us wobble and they capitalised on it .

Largely though , I enjoyed our performance in the tie. Aside from after the sending off, it was good to see us match them.

We need some additions for this season, if we get a few in, and keep most of our key players, we still be up there challenging again

[easty]

You keep saying they have a smaller budget than us but where are you getting that from?

Smaller stadium and less fans doesn't equal smaller budget when you're playing in a different league.

Until very recently Croatia had a better TV deal than Scotland, and I'm also assuming it has been historically more evenly distributed than ours which used to funnel everything to the old firm. They've also qualified for the Europa groups twice in recent years, which when you add in a few wins and draws adds up to am extra £10million in prize money.

The salaries that the Rijeka posters was saying they pay also seemed higher than what our average wage probably is.

Two seasons ago they paid over £700k for a player, when did hibs last pay a fee like that?

All of the above suggests that they will have a larger budget than us.

I’ve been assuming he’s getting it from nowhere. Making it up.

[easty]

Europe is worth it, and with the luck of the draw, luck with injuries, and a good performance, we can definitely be reaching this conference league group stage.

European football gives us the opportunity to sign better players in my opinion. Players want to play in Europe competition.

[B.H.F.C]

Were we going to really though? We were better than them on every department til we gave them a goal?

I don’t think we were better than them in every department.

At ER we certainly played the better football. But over the two legs our finishing has been abysmal. Defensively they didn’t make as many mistakes as us either (like the corner last night and then heading one in to their own net).

We totally folded after the sending off. Obviously that was a key thing but our reaction was terrible.

[flash]

Europe is worth it, and with the luck of the draw, luck with injuries, and a good performance, we can definitely be reaching this conference league group stage.

European football gives us the opportunity to sign better players in my opinion. Players want to play in Europe competition.
Absolutely.
We have to qualify for a few years in a row to build up experience and squad depth.
What's important now is that we keep our good start to the domestic season going.
If Aberdeen make the group stages good luck to them but it means their league results will almost definitely suffer.
Anyway I am enjoying watching my team this season and surely that's the main thing.

[bigwheel]

I disagree. We mostly go out to teams with smaller stadiums and mallet budgets than us. That means we are doing something wrong.


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Nowhere near as wrong as this post tbh ..Rijeka, Brondby, Malmö , molde…all clubs with substantially more budget than us. The European revenue and transfer fees they secure dwarf anything we get

[Borderhibbie76]

"Europe" is the land of financial opportunity that would allow our club to move up a level and it should be taken very seriously indeed.

Anyone who talks about "just a bonus" or a "free hit" shouldn't be at our club.

European progression should be the cornerstone of what we need to do, and it is an arena in which we should measure ourselves.

Failures in Europe should be scrutinised and rigorously learned from.

Shame our board don't seem capable then of scrutinising said failures - last night is not the first time we've been caught with our pants down in Europe because of failing to get the squad ready for said Euro ties

[Spike Mandela]

It’s an ill divided world. If we’d turned up and won the cup last year we would still be in Europe even if we’d finished 12th in the league. Finishing third doesn’t seem to give you much of an advantage. However, it is what it is. We couldn’t beat what was put in front of us.

Look on the bright side though , if Aberdeen and St Johnstone make the group stages maybe the pressures of all that football could affect their performance in the league and we could finish third again, oh wait….:greengrin

[Key West]

You could argue what is the point when a domestic cup gives you the potential to go further than a consistent league position, makes no sense to me.

[lucky]

Qualifying for Europe has to be our minimum target every season. The more games you play the more experience the players gain. We also have to look at recruitment policy. There are very good players playing other European leagues that we should be targeting. It’s unlikely many players playing in the Croat league are on more money that Hibs players. Losing in the qualifiers is heartbreaking especially with all the talk of group stages and European football until December. Last nights loss is up there with the 3 cup losses. Another big game and the players just don’t deliver

[B.H.F.C]

Qualifying for Europe has to be our minimum target every season. The more games you play the more experience the players gain. We also have to look at recruitment policy. There are very good players playing other European leagues that we should be targeting. It’s unlikely many players playing in the Croat league are on more money that Hibs players. Losing in the qualifiers is heartbreaking especially with all the talk of group stages and European football until December. Last nights loss is up there with the 3 cup losses. Another big game and the players just don’t deliver

Problem is the good ones will just gain the experience to use elsewhere.

Pretty confident we’ll qualify for Europe again this season, but I don’t have any confidence we won’t be in the same position when Europe comes round again.

[Potty78]

Let's be honest Europe isn't just a hibs problem it's a scottish football problem. 4 teams out of 5 already out of there main tournament, this oh yer out but u can fall into the next competition is a joke. Last night I honestly thought when we equalised we would go on to win. McGregor made a silly mistake then that was that. We should not be relying on a 36 year old though. Our recruitment team should have had at least one more central defender signed, u dont get target one u move on. Same with strikers. It cost us a cup last season having no options on the bench.

[calumhibee1]

Problem is the good ones will just gain the experience to use elsewhere.

Pretty confident we’ll qualify for Europe again this season, but I don’t have any confidence we won’t be in the same position when Europe comes round again.

Yup.

People have spent the last 6 months telling us how getting third is the be all and end all because it means we get extra money which we can invest, get back into Europe and make the extra money again, invest and make even more extra money etc. Whilst doing that the players gain the experience of playing in Europe and we start getting into the groups and making serious money etc.

In reality we’re unlikely to ever get to the groups and the good players with European experience at the club will be sold soon enough. The ones that aren’t good enough at European level will remain here, with a little experience of Europe and we’ll supplement them with some better players with no European experience and that cycle will continue.

If the club aren’t going to build a squad in time to actually compete in Europe when we get there then I’m not sure why we make such a big deal of getting there in the first place.

[Fergus52]

Yup.

People have spent the last 6 months telling us how getting third is the be all and end all because it means we get extra money which we can invest, get back into Europe and make the extra money again, invest and make even more extra money etc. Whilst doing that the players gain the experience of playing in Europe and we start getting into the groups and making serious money etc.

In reality we’re unlikely to ever get to the groups and the good players with European experience at the club will be sold soon enough.

If the club aren’t going to build a squad in time to actually compete in Europe when we get there then I’m not sure why we make such a big deal of getting there in the first place.

Coming third this season guarantees us group stage football if one of the old firm win the cup.

[calumhibee1]

Coming third this season guarantees us group stage football if one of the old firm win the cup.

Does it?

Have our European places on offer changed from last season? Also, that’s a big if. The OF win the cup a lot more often than not.

Finishing third in a season where the OF don’t win the cup is 2 things that don’t happen all that often for Hibs. I’m aware it just happened last season but it’s two major things we’d be counting on going our way at the same time to make it.

[EdinburghHibern]

Does it?

Have our European places on offer changed from last season? Also, that’s a big if. The OF win the cup a lot more often than not.

Finishing third in a season where the OF don’t win the cup is 2 things that don’t happen all that often for Hibs. I’m aware it just happened last season but it’s two major things we’d be counting on going our way at the same time to make it.

Yes it really was a double whammy for us last season not winning the scottish cup but finishing third.

[Fergus52]

Does it?

Have our European places on offer changed from last season? Also, that’s a big if. The OF win the cup a lot more often than not.

Finishing third in a season where the OF don’t win the cup is 2 things that don’t happen all that often for Hibs. I’m aware it just happened last season but it’s two major things we’d be counting on going our way at the same time to make it.

aye, we're moving up from 14th to 11th which improves the entry positions for each tournament.

Think you're getting mixed up - if we came third and got knocked out the cup early then we'd want the OF to win the cup. Which as you say is most likely to happen.

[calumhibee1]

aye, we're moving up from 14th to 11th which improves the entry positions for each tournament.

Think you're getting mixed up - if we came third and got knocked out the cup early then we'd want the OF to win the cup. Which as you say is most likely to happen.

You’re right, I am getting mixed up.

Didn’t realise the Euro places on offer were even better this season which is a big positive.

[Irish_Steve]

In modern times it seems a pointless target qualifying for Europe for Hibs. We were ill prepared squad wise as usual and potentially losing players for the league and cup campaign due to injuries. We have no depth in defence and no depth in attack. The bygone days of competing in Europe has gone. Let’s focus on winning cups and beating Hearts in Scotland. It was a very poor performance.

Is that you, Mr. Dickie???

[He's here!]

These early round European ties against opposition many will never have heard of do little for me. They almost feel like pre-season/inter-toto games.

In bygone days European ties didn't start until quite well into the season. I was too young to be at some of our greatest European nights but I was there (home and away) for Anderlecht and AEK Athens, both well-kent European clubs and thus ensuring a lot of excitement around the ties (both of which took place in mid/late September). Granted we didn't win the ties but we came within a whisker of doing so on both occasions and my recollection of such thrilling nights is far greater and more fond than some of our more recent campaigns, including the relatively decent progress we made under Lennon (and even though that was only a couple of years back I can only recall the name of one of the teams we played).

Personally I'd prefer to enjoy those sort of one-off occasions to add a bit of glamour to the season more than the present-day set-up. How many folk can remember how Hibs actually did in the tournaments overall when we beat Barcelona, Napoli, Sporting Lisbon etc and ran the likes of Liverpool and Leeds close? Yet everyone who was there remembers those games and they're very much part of Hibs folklore. Today it seems more about trying to earn some extra cash by reaching the group stages of a third-tier European tournament at a stage of the season when our squad is barely up to speed. Hardly something to set the pulses racing - and more likely to simply to depress us as we come up short.

I'm not saying there's no point in qualifying for Europe, but I'd suggest doing so is a bit overrated.

[loanheadhibby]

It’s not a bonus. That attitudes pish and I certainly hope the club don’t take the same view on it. We will never progress if that’s the case.
I tend to share the view of the opening post but it's hard to disagree with your views.