Why ending all COVID restrictions surrounding football is so important

[ABZHFC]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/dons-ordered-to-make-covid-safety-improvements-after-fans-spotted-hugging-on-pittodrie-return/

Aberdeen City Council being utter clowns and demanding better security at Pittodrie on Sunday for the crime of fans ‘hugging’ at their game on Thursday night against Hacken. This isn’t about party politics, if you give any authority greater power and control they will seize it with both hands.

Nobody wants to watch football like this. It is absolutely imperative that all clubs put maximum pressure on the Scottish Government and their local council to ensure that from the 9th of August, stadiums are able to be completely full and there are no COVID restrictions whatsoever. The future of Scotland’s game depends on it

[CMurdoch]

It's not a case of hugging randoms at the football being a crime but it is irresponsible in a pandemic.
The other aspect is the council no doubt received lots of complaints from folk directly and indirectly about it so are responding.
People complain and demand action about everything as you yourself are doing in this thread.
The difficult part is that folk on all sides of the argument complain and it is impossible for our elected representatives to make them all happy.
It's best they make the right decisions rather than responding to hyperbole, loud voices or pressure.

[PatHead]

If, when I was at the game on Thursday, people were hugging and spreading Covid around I would have not been too happy.
This hasn't gone away by any stretch and we still need to be cautious.

[Springbank]

if viruses didnt mutate then this OP would be a cracker

but viruses do mutate

the original mutation was getting under control in Scotland 13 months ago (June 29th 2020 headlines read that Scotland had its 8th consecutive day without a single Covid fatality, way ahead of other nations)

the problem was others did not have the virus under control (first Kent, then India) so the new variants emerged that spread quicker and hit you harder, potentially even being immune to existing treatments as they mutate.

the World Health Organisation has queried the lifting of all restrictions during the current phase (in England) as being "exactly what you would do if you wanted to create a new mutation that is resitant to the AZ & Pfizer vaccines" making for a full *new* worldwide lockdown and back to square one.

You may have guessed, given that, I disagree with the OP and I wish our irresponsible next door neighbour England was not playing fire with a mutating virus

[Sir David Gray]

Football should be played behind closed doors if hugging is so dangerous at the football.

Expecting people not to hug others when their team's just won 5-1 in Europe after 16 months away is just not realistic. When a goal is scored fans don't even think about hugging the people they're with it's an instinctive reaction.

[Jay]

If, when I was at the game on Thursday, people were hugging and spreading Covid around I would have not been too happy.
This hasn't gone away by any stretch and we still need to be cautious.


I got lots of hugs. Hadnt seen these people for well over a year..

[WhileTheChief..]

^^Is this from an SNP advert or something?!

Scotland were brilliant and England are doing it all wrong!

[WhileTheChief..]

Football should be played behind closed doors if hugging is so dangerous at the football.

Expecting people not to hug others when their team's just won 5-1 in Europe after 16 months away is just not realistic. When a goal is scored fans don't even think about hugging the people they're with it's an instinctive reaction.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

A married couple share a bed all night, drive to the game in the same car but aren’t allowed to hug each other at the match???

[marinello59]

Football should be played behind closed doors if hugging is so dangerous at the football.

Expecting people not to hug others when their team's just won 5-1 in Europe after 16 months away is just not realistic. When a goal is scored fans don't even think about hugging the people they're with it's an instinctive reaction.

Totally agree.
Our Goverment has had totally unprecedented control over our lives for around 16 months. When that happens the hardest thing is for them to give that power up. Moving on to micro managing things like this is a step too far for me. It’s time for them to let go a wee bit.

[SteveHFC]

Football should be played behind closed doors if hugging is so dangerous at the football.

Expecting people not to hug others when their team's just won 5-1 in Europe after 16 months away is just not realistic. When a goal is scored fans don't even think about hugging the people they're with it's an instinctive reaction.

t'm half expecting Edinburgh council to make a similar statement soon.

[SteveHFC]

Totally agree.
Our Goverment has had totally unprecedented control over our lives for around 16 months. When that happens the hardest thing is for them to give that power up. Moving on to micro managing things like this is a step too far for me. It’s time for them to let go a wee bit.

Spot on.

You can have folk in your house and hug them much as you want but it's dangerous to hug at a football stadium.

[Phil MaGlass]

if viruses didnt mutate then this OP would be a cracker

but viruses do mutate

the original mutation was getting under control in Scotland 13 months ago (June 29th 2020 headlines read that Scotland had its 8th consecutive day without a single Covid fatality, way ahead of other nations)

the problem was others did not have the virus under control (first Kent, then India) so the new variants emerged that spread quicker and hit you harder, potentially even being immune to existing treatments as they mutate.

the World Health Organisation has queried the lifting of all restrictions during the current phase (in England) as being "exactly what you would do if you wanted to create a new mutation that is resitant to the AZ & Pfizer vaccines" making for a full *new* worldwide lockdown and back to square one.

You may have guessed, given that, I disagree with the OP and I wish our irresponsible next door neighbour England was not playing fire with a mutating virus


This 100%, but there's only so long folk will accept being in lockdown and will take matters into their own hands.

More than 10,000 people have died in Scotland.

[Sir David Gray]

Totally agree.
Our Goverment has had totally unprecedented control over our lives for around 16 months. When that happens the hardest thing is for them to give that power up. Moving on to micro managing things like this is a step too far for me. It’s time for them to let go a wee bit.

Agree completely.

[500miles]

Stop hugging each other, you love starved weirdos.

[mal]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/dons-ordered-to-make-covid-safety-improvements-after-fans-spotted-hugging-on-pittodrie-return/

Aberdeen City Council being utter clowns and demanding better security at Pittodrie on Sunday for the crime of fans ‘hugging’ at their game on Thursday night against Hacken. This isn’t about party politics, if you give any authority greater power and control they will seize it with both hands.

Nobody wants to watch football like this. It is absolutely imperative that all clubs put maximum pressure on the Scottish Government and their local council to ensure that from the 9th of August, stadiums are able to be completely full and there are no COVID restrictions whatsoever. The future of Scotland’s game depends on it


"Council officials have reportedly told Aberdeen FC to address issues around queuing, social distancing and stewarding after fans were spotted hugging and not wearing masks on their return to Pittodrie."

So, not just hugging then.

Fans are gradually being allowed back into grounds. Severe outbreaks caused by irresponsible behaviour could easily result in that being reversed. What would "the future of Scotland's game" be like then?

You sound like one of those Covid sceptics who likes to pretend that the rules are the problem, not the virus.

[ABZHFC]

It's not a case of hugging randoms at the football being a crime but it is irresponsible in a pandemic.
The other aspect is the council no doubt received lots of complaints from folk directly and indirectly about it so are responding.
People complain and demand action about everything as you yourself are doing in this thread.
The difficult part is that folk on all sides of the argument complain and it is impossible for our elected representatives to make them all happy.

It's best they make the right decisions rather than responding to hyperbole, loud voices or pressure.

18 months of restrictions, it has to be over now. We simply have to go back to normal, and considering 2% of Scotland attend football matches every week, that cannot be treated any different. Boards simply must call for it and call for it now - total, 2019 normality from the 9th of August onwards, with no going back from that either

[ABZHFC]

"Council officials have reportedly told Aberdeen FC to address issues around queuing, social distancing and stewarding after fans were spotted hugging and not wearing masks on their return to Pittodrie."

So, not just hugging then.

Fans are gradually being allowed back into grounds. Severe outbreaks caused by irresponsible behaviour could easily result in that being reversed. What would "the future of Scotland's game" be like then?

You sound like one of those Covid sceptics who likes to pretend that the rules are the problem, not the virus.

I’m not a COVID sceptic, I recognise the tragic nature of this virus and I believe that (initially) lockdowns were reasonable as we did not know the full scale of this virus. We now have fantastic vaccines, we have them in the vast majority of people’s arms, we have given up 18 months of our lives in order to protect the vulnerable. We have done all we can, England will be having full houses on the first weekend of their season (rightly), whilst we may well be stuck twiddling our thumbs and begging Edinburgh City Council for an extra 2,000 fans to be allowed in.

It’s pathetic. Full crowds, masks optional, away fans in. Nothing less will do

[mal]

18 months of restrictions, it has to be over now. We simply have to go back to normal, and considering 2% of Scotland attend football matches every week, that cannot be treated any different. Boards simply must call for it and call for it now - total, 2019 normality from the 9th of August onwards, with no going back from that either

Do you seriously think that the virus will cease to exist, cease to mutate, cease to infect, cease to kill, and cease to leave people with debilitating long term side effects just because you demand it?

[AugustaHibs]

Do you seriously think that the virus will cease to exist, cease to mutate, cease to infect, cease to kill, and cease to leave people with debilitating long term side effects just because you demand it?

Virtually everyone who wants a vaccine, has one by now.

What do you suggest? As you say, covid isn’t going anywhere. Time to get on with it

[mal]

I’m not a COVID sceptic, I recognise the tragic nature of this virus and I believe that (initially) lockdowns were reasonable as we did not know the full scale of this virus. We now have fantastic vaccines, we have them in the vast majority of people’s arms, we have given up 18 months of our lives in order to protect the vulnerable. We have done all we can, England will be having full houses on the first weekend of their season (rightly), whilst we may well be stuck twiddling our thumbs and begging Edinburgh City Council for an extra 2,000 fans to be allowed in.

It’s pathetic. Full crowds, masks optional, away fans in. Nothing less will do

You clearly are a Covid sceptic based on what you have written above. Try reading some actual scientists instead of whatever halfwits you are allowing to influence you.

[GreenCastle]

Do you seriously think that the virus will cease to exist, cease to mutate, cease to infect, cease to kill, and cease to leave people with debilitating long term side effects just because you demand it?

What’s the end goal ?

What’s the plan ?

Majority of the vulnerable double vaccinated in Scotland - do we just sit about waiting (waiting for what??) or can we accept that daily live involves risk and let people get on with their lives - especially those who need to see a doctor / get a hospital appointment for other conditions like cancer. Not trying to be smart but I keep hearing folk say don’t do this or that and haven’t told us when we actually can live properly again.

[BlackSheep]

Covid passports (including those who are seriously medically exempt) would make some people think harder.

So many view it as a way of controlling the population, but in my opinion Covid Passports would stand as a firm point that getting a vaccine is the strongest way to fight this virus, starve it of hosts whose bodies cannot fight it and soon it will be gone.... leave it to have its way around the unvaccinated populous and we will be riding this wave for a long time.

[BlackSheep]

What’s the end goal ?

What’s the plan ?

Majority of the vulnerable double vaccinated in Scotland - do we just sit about waiting (waiting for what??) or can we accept that daily live involves risk and let people get on with their lives - especially those who need to see a doctor / get a hospital appointment for other conditions like cancer. Not trying to be smart but I keep hearing folk say don’t do this or that and haven’t told us when we actually can live properly again.

Maybe part of living with this virus DOES include mask wearing and other restrictions, this in fact could be how we live properly from now on.

Perhaps those who are so against the restrictions may have to concede to them in order for society to get back to some form of normal.

I think those who think we will go back to how things were, Pre-Covid, may be in for a surprise.

[Lago]

t'm half expecting Edinburgh council to make a similar statement soon.
And if they do a lot of folk will just say stuff it & be lost to football forever.

[ElginHibbie]

Covid passports (including those who are seriously medically exempt) would make some people think harder.

So many view it as a way of controlling the population, but in my opinion Covid Passports would stand as a firm point that getting a vaccine is the strongest way to fight this virus, starve it of hosts whose bodies cannot fight it and soon it will be gone.... leave it to have its way around the unvaccinated populous and we will be riding this wave for a long time.

Needing a Vaccine Passport to get into a match being considered for the Premier League down south, not sure how easy it would be to actually enforce but think it could well end up being the way forward for the bigger events for the immediate future

[tamig]

It's not a case of hugging randoms at the football being a crime but it is irresponsible in a pandemic.
The other aspect is the council no doubt received lots of complaints from folk directly and indirectly about it so are responding.
People complain and demand action about everything as you yourself are doing in this thread.
The difficult part is that folk on all sides of the argument complain and it is impossible for our elected representatives to make them all happy.
It's best they make the right decisions rather than responding to hyperbole, loud voices or pressure.

Well said sir :applause:

[Stuart93]

Hearts allowed roughly 4,500 in tynie on Sunday. Whereas Motherwell are allowed about 7,000 in a stadium that holds about 7,000 less.

These rules/decisions by the councils aren’t making any sense anymore

[Jay]

What’s the end goal ?

What’s the plan ?

Majority of the vulnerable double vaccinated in Scotland - do we just sit about waiting (waiting for what??) or can we accept that daily live involves risk and let people get on with their lives - especially those who need to see a doctor / get a hospital appointment for other conditions like cancer. Not trying to be smart but I keep hearing folk say don’t do this or that and haven’t told us when we actually can live properly again.

100% I had a scan booked a month ago and had to cancel because I was in contact with someone who had covid, I'm double vaxed and tested negative but still couldnt go to the scan. I dont even have an appointment through yet. This is to see if my cancer has returned. How long can I wait and hope? The staff would have been double vaxed unless they had chosen not to be and the whole place is cleaned after me. I wear a mask and am in the room around 10 mins.

[AgentDaleCooper]

This basically boils down to emotions v science.

[O'Rourke3]

Hearts allowed roughly 4,500 in tynie on Sunday. Whereas Motherwell are allowed about 7,000 in a stadium that holds about 7,000 less.

These rules/decisions by the councils aren’t making any sense anymoreAt Tynecastle home and away fans are forced to use entrances in the same area. The away end at Motherwell is nowhere near the other entrances so there is a huge degree of separation.
We have the same problem at ER. North and East exit to the same area as does the South and West The surrounding areas are part of the problem and impacting numbers.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[GreenCastle]

Maybe part of living with this virus DOES include mask wearing and other restrictions, this in fact could be how we live properly from now on.

Perhaps those who are so against the restrictions may have to concede to them in order for society to get back to some form of normal.

I think those who think we will go back to how things were, Pre-Covid, may be in for a surprise.

Your going to get covid whether you wear a mask or don’t. I know plenty people who have worn them and got it and others who haven’t worn a mask and haven’t had covid. The only way you probably wouldn’t get it is if you stay inside and don’t socialise with anyone.

Of course it helps but reality is that like a cold etc you will get it at a bar / restaurant / shop / with friends etc. Catching covid outside is minimal though and the scientists have said this. Feel free to provide a link if this is wrongs

I think it’s the opposite of what you say - those who have followed the restrictions will need to adapt to live without as many restrictions. We are seeing this already with many sectors reopening finally.

Everyone knows things will be different moving forward but my question still hasn’t been answered. What’s the end goal and when do we see this roughly happening / what’s the plan? What’s the target we are waiting for ?

[tamig]

What’s the end goal ?

What’s the plan ?

Majority of the vulnerable double vaccinated in Scotland - do we just sit about waiting (waiting for what??) or can we accept that daily live involves risk and let people get on with their lives - especially those who need to see a doctor / get a hospital appointment for other conditions like cancer. Not trying to be smart but I keep hearing folk say don’t do this or that and haven’t told us when we actually can live properly again.

What's your view on COVID passports? I think a lot of folk who've taken the vaccine have done so in the spirit of "doing their bit" in the fight against the virus. I don't think the choice to get vaccinated has been purely about self-preservation. A lot of the comments I see on here seem to verge on the "man up" sort of attitude and point to the "vulnerable" all having been double vaxxed.

The virus doesn't just target the vulnerable and hit them hardest. A lot of the younger elements seem to be resistant to taking the vaccine. Do you think it's right that folk who have "done their bit" should be excluded from stuff they enjoy, e.g., going to the football, because they have concerns about the behaviour of some unvaccinated randoms in the vicinity of where they're sitting?

The Aberdeen comment in the OP didn't specify who was hugging who. I've ended up several rows down in a clinch with complete strangers at games in pre-COVID times. I'm not sure if the hugging being talked about is about couples or best mates or randoms hugging each other. I know I'd not have been happy if some random had grabbed me on Thursday night when Hibs scored.

People can get on with their lives while exercising a bit of common sense and respect. I think that's a trait sadly lacking in today's society unfortunately.

[Stuart93]

At Tynecastle home and away fans are forced to use entrances in the same area. The away end at Motherwell is nowhere near the other entrances so there is a huge degree of separation.
We have the same problem at ER. North and East exit to the same area as does the South and West The surrounding areas are part of the problem and impacting numbers.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Aye but surely you could stagger arrival times and stagger times blocks/stands could depart to overcome that issue?

Make people aware that they may be held back at the end of the game and must arrive at certain times before the game and if they choose to attend they automatically agree to they conditions

[GreenCastle]

100% I had a scan booked a month ago and had to cancel because I was in contact with someone who had covid, I'm double vaxed and tested negative but still couldnt go to the scan. I dont even have an appointment through yet. This is to see if my cancer has returned. How long can I wait and hope? The staff would have been double vaxed unless they had chosen not to be and the whole place is cleaned after me. I wear a mask and am in the room around 10 mins.

I’m sorry to hear this and I hope you get an appointment soon. I know there are others in similar situations so can’t imagine what you are going through.

Many folk are obsessed by covid stats etc but don’t realise the impact it’s having on other walks of live.

[ancient hibee]

I’m not a COVID sceptic, I recognise the tragic nature of this virus and I believe that (initially) lockdowns were reasonable as we did not know the full scale of this virus. We now have fantastic vaccines, we have them in the vast majority of people’s arms, we have given up 18 months of our lives in order to protect the vulnerable. We have done all we can, England will be having full houses on the first weekend of their season (rightly), whilst we may well be stuck twiddling our thumbs and begging Edinburgh City Council for an extra 2,000 fans to be allowed in.

It’s pathetic. Full crowds, masks optional, away fans in. Nothing less will do

My guess is that the largest adult age group at a match is the under 50's. The majority of this group are nowhere near double vaccinated.Until they are I'll be nowhere near a match.

[Jay]

I’m sorry to hear this and I hope you get an appointment soon. I know there are others in similar situations so can’t imagine what you are going through.

Many folk are obsessed by covid stats etc but don’t realise the impact it’s having on other walks of live.

Yeah, I'm just one wee person. There must be thousands in the same position or worse. It's time to be sensible and weigh up risks instead of have a blanket ban on us all .

[CMurdoch]

18 months of restrictions, it has to be over now. We simply have to go back to normal, and considering 2% of Scotland attend football matches every week, that cannot be treated any different. Boards simply must call for it and call for it now - total, 2019 normality from the 9th of August onwards, with no going back from that either

I think we are moving positively towards an acceptable position for Scottish football and supporters.
2,000 away supporters at Motherwell on Sunday and 50% attendance at that game.
In essence everyone that wants a ticket can get one.

Hopefully Hibs will be allowed 50% of capacity for our 1st home league game against Ross County.
I say that from my own selfish point of view as a season ticket holder desperate to go back to Easter Road.
I think folk should still wear a mask until they reach their seat or when moving about the stadium.
Not because I am concerned but because I would like them to consider their fellow supporters some of whom might have the fear from underlying health conditions but being mad keen Hibees will attend despite their concerns.

We all have our own version of what we would like to see happen and when but I see no point in football clubs making demands when we appear to finally be making good and speedy progress towards an acceptable position.
One of the great things about Covid has been it's absolute ability to make a fool of populist politicians and show up their lies and spin at every turn. The virus does not cave to human demands or entitlement.
I am not a fan of the clowncil but respect that they have a responsibility for public safety so have to at least cover their arse when making decisions regarding covid even at what appears this late stage.

[Peevemor]

What's your view on COVID passports? I think a lot of folk who've taken the vaccine have done so in the spirit of "doing their bit" in the fight against the virus. I don't think the choice to get vaccinated has been purely about self-preservation. A lot of the comments I see on here seem to verge on the "man up" sort of attitude and point to the "vulnerable" all having been double vaxxed.

I wish I was as noble as that. I had a crowd of pals at my place on Saturday. With the Covid passport about to kick-in here I asked how many were vaccinated. Out of 8 mates, 6 are already double-dosed and the other 2 (a bit younger) already have their appointments.

All of those vaccinated (including myself) have done so to be at liberty to do stuff - go to bars & restaurants, attend events, etc. - as opposed to doing their bit for the greater good.

[tamig]

I wish I was as noble as that. I had a crowd of pals at my place on Saturday. With the Covid passport about to kick-in here I asked how many were vaccinated. Out of 8 mates, 6 are already double-dosed and the other 2 (a bit younger) already have their appointments.

All of those vaccinated (including myself) have done so to be at liberty to do stuff - go to bars & restaurants, attend events, etc. - as opposed to doing their bit for the greater good.

Just to be clear I didn't say the majority. I do think a lot of people have done it though. I know a lot of folk wear masks out of respect for others.

Were these all your French cronies? My sister's social circle had a lot of anti-vax types (French) among them. They are all now grudgingly getting done while giving a single fingered salute to Macron. The sole reason is because they don't want in curtailing their vibrant social activities.

[CMurdoch]

Yeah, I'm just one wee person. There must be thousands in the same position or worse. It's time to be sensible and weigh up risks instead of have a blanket ban on us all .

Positions like your own is where risks need to be taken with procedures.
Football doesn't come close.
Hope you get the right outcome as soon as possible.

[Peevemor]

Just to be clear I didn't say the majority. I do think a lot of people have done it though. I know a lot of folk wear masks out of respect for others.

Were these all your French cronies? My sister's social circle had a lot of anti-vax types (French) among them. They are all now grudgingly getting done while giving a single fingered salute to Macron. The sole reason is because they don't want in curtailing their vibrant social activities.

Yep. To be honest the majority generally moan about everything and certainly don't like being told what to do. It really is a case of being as unshackled as possible.

[Just Alf]

Aye but surely you could stagger arrival times and stagger times blocks/stands could depart to overcome that issue?

Make people aware that they may be held back at the end of the game and must arrive at certain times before the game and if they choose to attend they automatically agree to they conditions

That's what they do to come up with their available capacity, the clubs then take that to the council for their certification sigh off.

According to the original feedback from the events in Liverpool they even videoed the crowds to work out a % non-compliance that also gets factored in (or did at the time).

[ABZHFC]

Maybe part of living with this virus DOES include mask wearing and other restrictions, this in fact could be how we live properly from now on.

Perhaps those who are so against the restrictions may have to concede to them in order for society to get back to some form of normal.

I think those who think we will go back to how things were, Pre-Covid, may be in for a surprise.

Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

[number9dream]

It's not a 50% attendance at Fir Park on Sunday, is it?
I think the permitted total is 4,500, with us getting 2,000 after Motherwell fans were given today as a deadline. No?

[Jay]

Positions like your own is where risks need to be taken with procedures.
Football doesn't come close.
Hope you get the right outcome as soon as possible.

I dont think hugging someone at the football is all that much of a risk though. I dont think we should be wearing masks either. As was said earlier we are being micro managed to ridiculous levels.

[Callum_62]

So they were given rules to abide by to allow a certain attendance and were seen to be lax at policing the rules

They rules are only in place for the next 2 weeks though so this will be a storm in a teacup

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Callum_62]

Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly tooIsn't England literally more open than Denmark right now?

Everything bar nightclubs in Denmark...?

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[ElginHibbie]

Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

The fact that they are having to produce a negative test to enter somewhere goes against your assertion that things are "normal" over there

[calumhibee1]

Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

:agree:

We’ll go back to a version of normal that still requires vaccine passports and/or negative tests soon enough, as England have. Eventually, they’ll be binned as well and we will be back to the normal of old.

[WhileTheChief..]

The difficult part is that folk on all sides of the argument complain and it is impossible for our elected representatives to make them all happy.

It's best they make the right decisions rather than responding to hyperbole, loud voices or pressure.

Yeah, which is fine if you have faith in Edinburgh council doing so.

Mind the trams? It's only once we had the public enquiry that those involved came out and admitted they didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Mind the scandal over housing repairs? Same.

It's pretty hard to think of an example of a big decision they ever got right!

Do we really want the way we live our lives in their hands? No chance.

[hibee316]

All of those vaccinated (including myself) have done so to be at liberty to do stuff - go to bars & restaurants, attend events, etc. - as opposed to doing their bit for the greater good.

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.

[Peevemor]

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.They're all musicians, some professional & some amateur. Without the Covid passport they'd be goosed for attending and/or playing at the few events that have survived over the summer.

Would they have been vaccinated if it was only for the greater good? I think so but probably with less urgency.

I took my appointments the day after I could. TBH it was to avoid a rush and any hassle. Why did I get vaccinated? For various reasons, some more selfish than others.

I hope that's OK with you, but in any case I'd ask you to keep your judgement of me to yourself in future.

[B.H.F.C]

Rangers up to 23k this weekend. Celtic 24.5k next week.

Hearts getting 4.5k this weekend.

[hibee316]

They're all musicians, some professional & some amateur. Without the Covid passport they'd be goosed for attending and/or playing at the few events that have survived over the summer.

Would they have been vaccinated if it was only for the greater good? I think so but probably with less urgency.

I took my appointments the day after I could. TBH it was to avoid a rush and any hassle. Why did I get vaccinated? For various reasons, some more selfish than others.

I hope that's OK with you, but in any case I'd ask you to keep your judgement of me to yourself in future.

I'm not asking you to change, I'm just giving my opinion on it.

It's a public forum from folk from all walks of life, so you should expect folk to disagree with you and your opinion.

I stick with what I said, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to keep it to myself in the future as this is a public forum, not a private conversation.

I will take back, and apologies, for using the word erseh0les, as that's not nice, however it does reflect my strength of feeling on the matter. I should have expressed myself clearer though.

[calumhibee1]

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.

I can safely say I’ve done it for both in equal measure.

I don’t think there’s anything selfish in the slightest or erseholeish about getting the vaccine because you want to live a more normal life again.

[hibee316]

I can safely say I’ve done it for both in equal measure.

I don’t think there’s anything selfish in the slightest or erseholeish about getting the vaccine because you want to live a more normal life again.

That's fine. Just my opinion.

I just can't imagine thinking "I don't want to help people, I just want my own freedoms".

Equal measures of the two is where I'm at.

[SChibs]

if viruses didnt mutate then this OP would be a cracker

but viruses do mutate

the original mutation was getting under control in Scotland 13 months ago (June 29th 2020 headlines read that Scotland had its 8th consecutive day without a single Covid fatality, way ahead of other nations)

the problem was others did not have the virus under control (first Kent, then India) so the new variants emerged that spread quicker and hit you harder, potentially even being immune to existing treatments as they mutate.

the World Health Organisation has queried the lifting of all restrictions during the current phase (in England) as being "exactly what you would do if you wanted to create a new mutation that is resitant to the AZ & Pfizer vaccines" making for a full *new* worldwide lockdown and back to square one.

You may have guessed, given that, I disagree with the OP and I wish our irresponsible next door neighbour England was not playing fire with a mutating virus

You could flip that on its head and say every time a virus mutates in order to survive it becomes more transmissible but less lethal. Because of this fact I'm not worried about future variants as for the most part they will become less deadly. This is beikg evidenced by the research into delta which is widely considered to have a high spread but low death rate.


If a new deadlier strain was to appear it wouldn't last as it would kill the hosts too quickly and it wouldn't spread efficiently.

[Stuart93]

Also seen a good point, 2 weeks before we’re meant to be back at full capacity yet councils are still only allowing 25% capacity in some stadiums, it’s absolute madness

Surely they’d be better letting a good % in to test it a bit more thoroughly with bigger capacities. Suppose it also doesn’t matter there’ll be no need to test anything after 9th August as things stand

[hibee316]

You could flip that on its head and say every time a virus mutates in order to survive it becomes more transmissible but less lethal. Because of this fact I'm not worried about future variants as for the most part they will become less deadly. This is beikg evidenced by the research into delta which is widely considered to have a high spread but low death rate.


If a new deadlier strain was to appear it wouldn't last as it would kill the hosts too quickly and it wouldn't spread efficiently.

Not saying that this isn't the case, but scientists are concerned a more deadly strain might come into play.

But it's scientists jobs to be concerned with all eventualities, even the most unlikely.

It's up to governments to decide what to do with the information...

[Peevemor]

I'm not asking you to change, I'm just giving my opinion on it.

It's a public forum from folk from all walks of life, so you should expect folk to disagree with you and your opinion.

I stick with what I said, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to keep it to myself in the future as this is a public forum, not a private conversation.

I will take back, and apologies, for using the word erseh0les, as that's not nice, however it does reflect my strength of feeling on the matter. I should have expressed myself clearer though.You shouldn't judge people you don't know. These are guys that will generally put others before themselves.

That doesn't mean that the principal reason for being vaccinated wasn't selfish, but so what? Where there's a means there's an end.

As for myself, people are entitled to have their opinions on the views I post on here and I no doubt have plenty of faults, however I don't think I've ever been accused of being selfish - not correctly in any case.

Yes it's a public forum and you're entitled to your opinions, but in this instance you were wrong and out of order.

[mixumatosis]

Aye but surely you could stagger arrival times and stagger times blocks/stands could depart to overcome that issue?

Make people aware that they may be held back at the end of the game and must arrive at certain times before the game and if they choose to attend they automatically agree to they conditions

Pretty sure every ticket I've ever had to attend a football match has said on the back that you should arrive no later than 15 mins before kick off. Look at how many folk don't even leave the pub until 5 to 3.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think staggering arrival times would work. If you were a steward outside the ground would you tell a ticket holding punter they can't go in because they missed their window ?

[007]

Pretty sure every ticket I've ever had to attend a football match has said on the back that you should arrive no later than 15 mins before kick off. Look at how many folk don't even leave the pub until 5 to 3.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think staggering arrival times would work. If you were a steward outside the ground would you tell a ticket holding punter they can't go in because they missed their window ?

I imagine those leaving the pub at 5 to 3 would have a staggered arrival. 😀

[hibee316]

You shouldn't judge people you don't know. These are guys that will generally put others before themselves.

That doesn't mean that the principal reason for being vaccinated wasn't selfish, but so what? Where there's a means there's an end.

As for myself, people are entitled to have their opinions on the views I post on here and I no doubt have plenty of faults, however I don't think I've ever been accused of being selfish - not correctly in any case.

Yes it's a public forum and you're entitled to your opinions, but in this instance you were wrong and out of order.

I said you and your friends were selfish, and in this post you said your friends were selfish yourself. So, I'm not sure how I'm wrong or out of order?

I totally understand that people are concerned for themselves and their own livelihoods. Anyone would be, but you said your mates would be hesitant to get the vaccine if it wouldn't allow them to work.

So, they would refuse to do something that would probably have little impact for themselves but would be for the greater good?
That's a selfish act, by definition of the word.

If they have concerns about what the vaccine might do to their bodies, then that is totally understandable.

[Peevemor]

I said you and your friends were selfish, and in this post you said your friends were selfish yourself. So, I'm not sure how I'm wrong or out of order?

I totally understand that people are concerned for themselves and their own livelihoods. Anyone would be, but you said your mates would be hesitant to get the vaccine if it wouldn't allow them to work.

So, they would refuse to do something that would probably have little impact for themselves but would be for the greater good?
That's a selfish act, by definition of the word.

If they have concerns about what the vaccine might do to their bodies, then that is totally understandable.I didn't say anything about being hesitant. Less urgency isn't necessarily the same as hesitation.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

[hibee316]

I didn't say anything about being hesitant. Less urgency isn't necessarily the same as hesitation.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Okay, less urgency then. My point amounts to exactly the same thing.

[Peevemor]

Okay, less urgency then. My point amounts to exactly the same thing.Garbage!

[ABZHFC]

Isn't England literally more open than Denmark right now?

Everything bar nightclubs in Denmark...?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Yes, it is. But on the issue of face masks, there are still a sizeable proportion wearing them in England, which is just not the case here, quite literally haven't seen anyone wearing one (apart from tourists)

[hibee316]

Garbage!

Ever single person I know personally and in work have got the vaccine as soon as they could.

Every single one.

The sooner everyone gets it, the safer we are.

Why on earth would you choose to delay?

Have a nice evening.

[Peevemor]

Ever single person I know personally and in work have got the vaccine as soon as they could.

Every single one.



Did they aye? Every single one? [emoji848]

[hibee316]

Did they aye? Every single one? [emoji848]

Of the ones I know.
Why would you delay it?!
Good night.

[wookie70]

This basically boils down to emotions v science.

I'm not convinced it does. I think most gripes here are around the contradictions that exist in the rules. All the Uk Governments have been hopeless at coming up with coherent rules. Hug in a close space you own - fine, hug in an open space at a football ground- not fine. 15 people from 15 households outside without distancing or masks in a park next to thousands of others following that rule - OK Sitting in a football ground distant from the next supporter - mask needed. The rules simply don't make much sense so it is increasingly difficult to get people to follow them. Full contact Rugby and football has started with 30-40 people from different houses getting close on a pitch for 90 minutes yet if you watch the games there are some really strict rules like having to wear a mask when you are watching from behind the goals with no-one near you.

If the science was followed we would be in full lockdown until a cure or vaccine with 100% effectiveness is found. The science needs to be weighted against normal living and people's mental health.

There are arbitrary dates where rules change despite numbers being worse. The governments don't follow the science so it is unlikely a football crowd will be 100% aware of the rules and also follow them diligently.

[Ronniekirk]

I think it’s clear that their is an incremental increase of numbers of fans allowed to attend each game This will be working up to the 9th August ,and I now expect things to as near normal as possible after that date
Until the last few weeks I had been dubious that this would be the case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

It really isn’t so important.

It’s a diversion, a fun diversion for most, and a way of making a living for some. It’s not more important than doing the right thing in the middle of a global pandemic.

[Stuart93]

It really isn’t so important.

It’s a diversion, a fun diversion for most, and a way of making a living for some. It’s not more important than doing the right thing in the middle of a global pandemic.

We aren’t in the middle of it anymore

[GreenCastle]

We aren’t in the middle of it anymore

Yeah we definitely aren’t in the middle of this !!

Cases have really dropped since the Scotland v England game - good to see.

Vaccination % continues to rise.

This all leads to August 9th looking really good for more changes to happen.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If someone thinks they’ve mastered a complex adaptive system like a virus that’ll be the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Each to their own but it’s worth contemplating following someone who’s not a member of this death-cult UK cabinet devoid of empathy and considering the arguments put forward by Devi Sridhar.

[AugustaHibs]

If someone thinks they’ve mastered a complex adaptive system like a virus that’ll be the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Each to their own but it’s worth contemplating following someone who’s not a member of this death-cult UK cabinet devoid of empathy and considering the arguments put forward by Devi Sridhar.

Devi who claimed the South African variant rendered vaccines useless and blocked other ‘scientists’ who proved her wrong?

[WhileTheChief..]

If someone thinks they’ve mastered a complex adaptive system like a virus that’ll be the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Each to their own but it’s worth contemplating following someone who’s not a member of this death-cult UK cabinet devoid of empathy and considering the arguments put forward by Devi Sridhar.

You say that as though any of us have a clue what it is.

[SteveHFC]

Devi who claimed the South African variant rendered vaccines useless and blocked other ‘scientists’ who proved her wrong?

Then blocking those on Twitter who disagreed with her including her own work colleagues. :aok:

[Smartie]

Then blocking those on Twitter who disagreed with her including her own work colleagues. :aok:

That certainly wasn’t her finest hour.

But do you judge someone by their greatest mistake, their greatest victory or assess how they’ve got on over the piece?

Playing the way she’s played, she’ll win more than she loses.

Her job isn’t to please everyone and it’s been inevitable that she’d hack folk off the way she’s hacked a few off on here.

Anyway - I prefer to look to the future, a future that looks better from where I’m standing.

We’ll have plenty of time yet to bicker over all of this.

The direction of travel is a good one and we should focus on that.

[Selkirkhibs]

That certainly wasn’t her finest hour.

But do you judge someone by their greatest mistake, their greatest victory or assess how they’ve got on over the piece?

Playing the way she’s played, she’ll win more than she loses.

Her job isn’t to please everyone and it’s been inevitable that she’d hack folk off the way she’s hacked a few off on here.

Anyway - I prefer to look to the future, a future that looks better from where I’m standing.

We’ll have plenty of time yet to bicker over all of this.

The direction of travel is a good one and we should focus on that.

Why would a reasoned scientist certain of their studies have to 'hack anyone off'?

She got it completely wrong and acted like a complete cancel culture fool in the process.

Mental.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

You say that as though any of us have a clue what it is.

Are you being serious? If folks don’t know what the meaning of a word/phrase is - like Covid, South African variant or obtuse - then they can look it up on the internet. Then they’ve learned something.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Why would a reasoned scientist certain of their studies have to 'hack anyone off'?

She got it completely wrong and acted like a complete cancel culture fool in the process.

Mental.

And have considered her other arguments or dismissed them?
‘Cancel culture’ - do you refer to people as ‘snowflakes’ too?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Devi who claimed the South African variant rendered vaccines useless and blocked other ‘scientists’ who proved her wrong?

So you’ve considered the responses to one of her arguments - and what of the others dismissed them too?

ive simply asked people to consider them - not follow blindly like some death culters.

it’s a shame things tend to get polarised and some potential golden nuggets lost.

[hibsbollah]

We aren’t in the middle of it anymore

I was kind of hoping someone would say that.
What is the finish date of Covid? And are new variants now permanently defeated? I don’t blame you personally but there’s a general amount of complacency going on.

[Brightside]

Did they aye? Every single one? [emoji848]

If you know people that aren't getting the vaccine i'd do everything i could to advise them to get it. And they wouldn't be joining us for any social sessions until that happened.

BTW you are getting really argumentative.....even i'm noticing it. :greengrin:greengrin

[FilipinoHibs]

So you’ve considered the responses to one of her arguments - and what of the others dismissed them too?

ive simply asked people to consider them - not follow blindly like some death culters.

it’s a shame things tend to get polarised and some potential golden nuggets lost.

Here is her latest thoughts:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/26/covid-young-people-england-virus-spread-uk

In my work I have worked with and against academics. It is a fiercely competive world with big egos who can't stand being challenged. Liveing in an academic bubble they are capable of some very childish behaviour

[Peevemor]

If you know people that aren't getting the vaccine i'd do everything i could to advise them to get it. And they wouldn't be joining us for any social sessions until that happened.

I'm not going to exclude people if it's not their fault. I took my appointments for my jags the day after it was open to my age group (55 & under) and I only got my 2nd jag 3 weeks ago. Now that the French government have introduced Covid passports there are no appointments to be had for 6-8 weeks.

The need to have a Covid passport to attend events >50 people kicked in on the 21 July. My passport wasn't activated until the following day (2 weeks after my 2nd jag) - so even though I was vaccinated as soon as possible, I still wasn't fully up to speed.


BTW you are getting really argumentative.....even i'm noticing it. :greengrin:greengrin

Some unknown calling my friends & I "right erseh0les" can bring that out in me. Funny that! :greengrin

[Up The Bracket]

Jack Ross and Paul McGinn captured in Edinburgh Airport this morning without masks on on our Instagram, I wonder if those who were “furious” at the lack of masks the other night (in an outdoor setting where transmission is low) take the same view of our manager and vice captain.

[flash]

Jack Ross and Paul McGinn captured in Edinburgh Airport this morning without masks on on our Instagram, I wonder if those who were “furious” at the lack of masks the other night (in an outdoor setting where transmission is low) take the same view of our manager and vice captain.
Snitch.

[bingo70]

Looking at the hearts game as an example, there’s now going to be around 15,000 people watching the game in groups in pubs snd mates houses when there’ll be 2 stands lying empty where the could have watched it in an outdoor environment that’s much safer.

In answer to the OPs point, that for me is why it’s so important to get people back in grounds. Simply, it’s a safer environment than the alternative option if gathering in pubs and other peoples houses to watch it, where they can cuddle all they want without without being judged by the council.

[ABZHFC]

The thing is with restrictions, particularly surrounding football, is that there is such an obvious status quo bias in play. If someone had told you in March 2020 that we are shutting down the country and you will not see a live football match for another 18 months because of a virus that is killing around 7 people a day, you would have looked at them as if they were crazy. But because of all the (justified) trauma that has been suffered in the last 18 months, we maintain restrictions that are now utterly disproportionate and quite possibly causing more harm than good at this point. So much of it comes down to governments (of all stripes) having to be seen to 'do something' in response, regardless of how actually effective their actions can be.

I just hope the Scottish Government maintains its bottle and goes for a full unlocking on the 9th of August, and that includes the mandatory usage of face coverings, which should absolutely become optional. I would rather be kicked out of a stadium for not wearing one than endure 90 minutes with one on, and as for the idea of social distancing and only being able to sit in groups of 4, get that to **** as well. We have all done our bit, we have collectively suffered, we have got vaccinated, it is now time for people to realise that we cannot be captive to 'the science' for years to come, and that life pre-March 2020 was also full of risk and turbulence, but we rightly believed that they were risks worth taking in order to live a full and happy life.

[Up The Bracket]

Snitch.

Snitch when it’s Hibs players/staff but “doing the right thing following the rules” when it’s Hibs fans 😂

[Stuart93]

I was kind of hoping someone would say that.
What is the finish date of Covid? And are new variants now permanently defeated? I don’t blame you personally but there’s a general amount of complacency going on.

I would say the middle of the pandemic was probably when their was a record high of people losing their lives to the virus? We’re nowhere near they numbers anymore and I very much doubt we’ll see they kind of
numbers again. That’s what I’m basing my “not in the middle anymore” on

Nope new variants are still cropping up but they aren’t having anywhere near as much effect on the number of deaths now that people are vaccinated. I was a big supporter of lockdowns etc when the virus was at its deadliest but that’s not the case anymore. For all of these new variants popping up the number of people testing positive was at its lowest since 1st of June yesterday.

[AugustaHibs]

The thing is with restrictions, particularly surrounding football, is that there is such an obvious status quo bias in play. If someone had told you in March 2020 that we are shutting down the country and you will not see a live football match for another 18 months because of a virus that is killing around 7 people a day, you would have looked at them as if they were crazy. But because of all the (justified) trauma that has been suffered in the last 18 months, we maintain restrictions that are now utterly disproportionate and quite possibly causing more harm than good at this point. So much of it comes down to governments (of all stripes) having to be seen to 'do something' in response, regardless of how actually effective their actions can be.

I just hope the Scottish Government maintains its bottle and goes for a full unlocking on the 9th of August, and that includes the mandatory usage of face coverings, which should absolutely become optional. I would rather be kicked out of a stadium for not wearing one than endure 90 minutes with one on, and as for the idea of social distancing and only being able to sit in groups of 4, get that to **** as well. We have all done our bit, we have collectively suffered, we have got vaccinated, it is now time for people to realise that we cannot be captive to 'the science' for years to come, and that life pre-March 2020 was also full of risk and turbulence, but we rightly believed that they were risks worth taking in order to live a full and happy life.


Great post.

[Brightside]

Looking at the hearts game as an example, there’s now going to be around 15,000 people watching the game in groups in pubs snd mates houses when there’ll be 2 stands lying empty where the could have watched it in an outdoor environment that’s much safer.

In answer to the OPs point, that for me is why it’s so important to get people back in grounds. Simply, it’s a safer environment than the alternative option if gathering in pubs and other peoples houses to watch it, where they can cuddle all they want without without being judged by the council.

The Hearts numbers are weird. They could have asked for much more.

[Peevemor]

The Hearts numbers are weird. They could have asked for much more.

Explication here - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/stadium-capacity-update


As was the case for our home Premier Sports Cup fixture against Inverness CT, the Club submitted a ‘Physical Distanced Capacity’ application to Edinburgh City Council. Our initial application sought permission to welcome 9,920 supporters into the ground.


We were subsequently advised by the local authority that, based on the need to ensure a 1-meter distance between each person within the stadium, our maximum Physical Distanced Capacity would be 6,047 as, in order to ensure said 1-meter distance, we are required to have two empty seats between each person.


For our first game at Tynecastle following this advice we were allowed 50% of the Physical Distanced Capacity. Accordingly, for last Sunday’s fixture against Inverness CT we were permitted to host 3,023 supporters.


For our second game (Celtic this coming Saturday) we are allowed 75% of the Physical Distanced Capacity. Accordingly, the number permitted for Saturday is 4,535.


Should restrictions remain unchanged for our next home fixture (vs Aberdeen on August 21st), we would expect to be allowed to welcome 6,047 supporters (100% of our max. Physical Distanced Capacity).


So the 9th of August thing looks like 100% of "Physical Distanced Capacity" as opposed to normal capacity. Is everyone aware of this?

[oneone73]

Explication here - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/stadium-capacity-update

No wonder it's so small if they're having to install that many meters.
Does no one proof-read her stuff?

[Peevemor]

No wonder it's so small if they're having to install that many meters.
Does no one proof-read her stuff?

Is it still her?

[nonshinyfinish]

No wonder it's so small if they're having to install that many meters.
Does no one proof-read her stuff?

If they put in smart meters it'll at least bump up the average intelligence in the ground on match day.

[flash]

Explication here - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/stadium-capacity-update



So the 9th of August thing looks like 100% of "Physical Distanced Capacity" as opposed to normal capacity. Is everyone aware of this?
No because restrictions should be lifted on the 9th.

[oneone73]

Is it still her?

Dunno, reads like her. Point still stands though

[bingo70]

Explication here - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/stadium-capacity-update



So the 9th of August thing looks like 100% of "Physical Distanced Capacity" as opposed to normal capacity. Is everyone aware of this?

I saw that and did wonder what they were talking about.

Surely this is just another thing Hearts have got wrong rather than the rest of the country being wrong?

[AugustaHibs]

Explication here - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/stadium-capacity-update



So the 9th of August thing looks like 100% of "Physical Distanced Capacity" as opposed to normal capacity. Is everyone aware of this?

“Should restrictions remain unchanged”

The restrictions will be changing on 9th august, all going well.

[nonshinyfinish]

I saw that and did wonder what they were talking about.

Surely this is just another thing Hearts have got wrong rather than the rest of the country being wrong?

They say "should restrictions remain unchanged", i.e. it's what would happen if the game were played under current restrictions, because the 9th Aug lifting of restrictions hasn't happened for whatever reason.

It's a bit confusingly worded, but I don't think they're wrong.

[hibsbollah]

I would say the middle of the pandemic was probably when their was a record high of people losing their lives to the virus? We’re nowhere near they numbers anymore and I very much doubt we’ll see they kind of
numbers again. That’s what I’m basing my “not in the middle anymore” on

Nope new variants are still cropping up but they aren’t having anywhere near as much effect on the number of deaths now that people are vaccinated. I was a big supporter of lockdowns etc when the virus was at its deadliest but that’s not the case anymore. For all of these new variants popping up the number of people testing positive was at its lowest since 1st of June yesterday.

It’s so obvious it surely doesn’t have to be said :dunno: If all this complacency was before, not after, we’ve already had multiple peaks and troughs, times when the worst was supposed to be over, I’d understand it a bit better. I have no idea what the numbers are going to look like in 3 months and neither do you.

[Peevemor]

If they put in smart meters it'll at least bump up the average intelligence in the ground on match day.


No because restrictions should be lifted on the 9th.


I saw that and did wonder what they were talking about.

Surely this is just another thing Hearts have got wrong rather than the rest of the country being wrong?


“Should restrictions remain unchanged”

The restrictions will be changing on 9th august, all going well.


They say "should restrictions remain unchanged", i.e. it's what would happen if the game were played under current restrictions, because the 9th Aug lifting of restrictions hasn't happened for whatever reason.

It's a bit confusingly worded, but I don't think they're wrong.

Yeah, it probably should have been clarified in the statement. :aok:

[calumhibee1]

The thing is with restrictions, particularly surrounding football, is that there is such an obvious status quo bias in play. If someone had told you in March 2020 that we are shutting down the country and you will not see a live football match for another 18 months because of a virus that is killing around 7 people a day, you would have looked at them as if they were crazy. But because of all the (justified) trauma that has been suffered in the last 18 months, we maintain restrictions that are now utterly disproportionate and quite possibly causing more harm than good at this point. So much of it comes down to governments (of all stripes) having to be seen to 'do something' in response, regardless of how actually effective their actions can be.

I just hope the Scottish Government maintains its bottle and goes for a full unlocking on the 9th of August, and that includes the mandatory usage of face coverings, which should absolutely become optional. I would rather be kicked out of a stadium for not wearing one than endure 90 minutes with one on, and as for the idea of social distancing and only being able to sit in groups of 4, get that to **** as well. We have all done our bit, we have collectively suffered, we have got vaccinated, it is now time for people to realise that we cannot be captive to 'the science' for years to come, and that life pre-March 2020 was also full of risk and turbulence, but we rightly believed that they were risks worth taking in order to live a full and happy life.

:agree:

[GreenCastle]

It’s so obvious it surely doesn’t have to be said :dunno: If all this complacency was before, not after, we’ve already had multiple peaks and troughs, times when the worst was supposed to be over, I’d understand it a bit better. I have no idea what the numbers are going to look like in 3 months and neither do you.

No one does but if you look at the trends and graphs plus available data alongside previous pandemics it does seem to correlate that we are through the worst of this.

Of course new variants etc could exist but even the research is now showing the Delta variant isn’t as bad as first thought.

I would be agreeing with you more if they hadn’t made and distributed a vaccine in record time but do you really think those making vaccines are sitting doing nothing. They are working towards the future and new variants and ways to make covid easier to deal with..1 jab..tablets etc.

I know many are still being cautious which is fine but especially in Scotland when a high % are vaccinated with 1 dose and getting 2nd doses we should be looking forward rather than worrying about the next issue which could be 5 or 10 years down the line.

[GreenCastle]

The thing is with restrictions, particularly surrounding football, is that there is such an obvious status quo bias in play. If someone had told you in March 2020 that we are shutting down the country and you will not see a live football match for another 18 months because of a virus that is killing around 7 people a day, you would have looked at them as if they were crazy. But because of all the (justified) trauma that has been suffered in the last 18 months, we maintain restrictions that are now utterly disproportionate and quite possibly causing more harm than good at this point. So much of it comes down to governments (of all stripes) having to be seen to 'do something' in response, regardless of how actually effective their actions can be.

I just hope the Scottish Government maintains its bottle and goes for a full unlocking on the 9th of August, and that includes the mandatory usage of face coverings, which should absolutely become optional. I would rather be kicked out of a stadium for not wearing one than endure 90 minutes with one on, and as for the idea of social distancing and only being able to sit in groups of 4, get that to **** as well. We have all done our bit, we have collectively suffered, we have got vaccinated, it is now time for people to realise that we cannot be captive to 'the science' for years to come, and that life pre-March 2020 was also full of risk and turbulence, but we rightly believed that they were risks worth taking in order to live a full and happy life.

This - if people don’t feel comfortable or feel at risk then they can make a choice to stay away or get tested after attending. Their is less risk going to the football than the supermarket.

The majority want to return to watching football outdoors without masks and clubs want fans back in. Scottish football is going to fall further behind other leagues unless they allow revenue streams to open up again.

[Sir David Gray]

Looking at the hearts game as an example, there’s now going to be around 15,000 people watching the game in groups in pubs snd mates houses when there’ll be 2 stands lying empty where the could have watched it in an outdoor environment that’s much safer.

In answer to the OPs point, that for me is why it’s so important to get people back in grounds. Simply, it’s a safer environment than the alternative option if gathering in pubs and other peoples houses to watch it, where they can cuddle all they want without without being judged by the council.

:agree: Absolutely - it makes no sense to me at all.

[AugustaHibs]

I really don’t understand the mentality of worrying about ‘vaccine evading mutations’

That’s going to happen/ not happen whether there’s 20k folk in a football ground. Can’t keep running from it forever and it’s a shame that people have became so risk averse and I fully believe that’s down to scaremongering from media outlets. Even in 2019 there were diseases/illnesses/viruses that could kill you.

We are fast approaching the point where we’ve done all we can.

[Smartie]

I really don’t understand the mentality of worrying about ‘vaccine evading mutations’

That’s going to happen/ not happen whether there’s 20k folk in a football ground. Can’t keep running from it forever and it’s a shame that people have became so risk averse and I fully believe that’s down to scaremongering from media outlets. Even in 2019 there were diseases/illnesses/viruses that could kill you.

We are fast approaching the point where we’ve done all we can.

Because it’s still the theoretical risk that has the potential to blow all the progress we’ve made apart.

The chances of mutations happening are much, much higher when there are billions of viruses in thousands of carriers, spreading them far and wide, giving them new immune systems for them to evolve their way around.

That and the long covid elephant in the room are the two main current problems we have.

Nobody wants any of this to go on any longer than it has to and everything points to us being close to normality again.

The risk is small, but many folk will be anxious whenever that risk is any higher than it needs to be, and that’s where we are whenever there is any “wave” of sorts.

It’s better to acknowledge that a risk is present and small than to shut your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn’t exist when it does.

[lyonhibs]

Maybe part of living with this virus DOES include mask wearing and other restrictions, this in fact could be how we live properly from now on.

Perhaps those who are so against the restrictions may have to concede to them in order for society to get back to some form of normal.

I think those who think we will go back to how things were, Pre-Covid, may be in for a surprise.

Your last paragraph is spot on. Some disappointed people I suspect if we think that a switch is going to be flicked on August 9th and we're going to fully zoom back to 2019 as if the past 18 months never happened and won't leave some sort of enduring legacy on some aspects of life, however minor they may be.

[Stuart93]

It’s so obvious it surely doesn’t have to be said :dunno: If all this complacency was before, not after, we’ve already had multiple peaks and troughs, times when the worst was supposed to be over, I’d understand it a bit better. I have no idea what the numbers are going to look like in 3 months and neither do you.

Aye but everyday there’s a higher % of the country vaccinated. The worst is over, let’s not pretend it isn’t, when UK deaths were up towards 1,000 a day that was the worst and it won’t get back to that point.

Because we don’t know how it’ll be in 3 months time isn’t a good enough reason for restrictions to remain for a lot of people anymore. We can’t sit scared of the day we haven’t seen

As others have said it’s personal preference, when the football opens up with a larger capacity the people who don’t feel comfortable with it won’t/don’t have to go whereas people who do will

[superfurryhibby]

It's time we started learning how to live with Covid, it's not going away. I say that as someone who's working life has been deeply immersed in the whole pandemic since it begun. People have had enough. If you don't feel safe, don't go. It's down to choice. I f we banned everything that had risk attached what kind of world would it be?

[Callum_62]

It's time we started learning how to live with Covid, it's not going away. I say that as someone who's working life has been deeply immersed in the whole pandemic since it begun. People have had enough. If you don't feel safe, don't go. It's down to choice. I f we banned everything that had risk attached what kind of world would it be?

Or maybe a simple thing like wearing a mask allows everyone to 'feel safe' enough to attend



Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

Are you being serious? If folks don’t know what the meaning of a word/phrase is - like Covid, South African variant or obtuse - then they can look it up on the internet. Then they’ve learned something.

Every person on the planet has learnt the word covid in the last year.

You were just trying to be smart.

[superfurryhibby]

Or maybe a simple thing like wearing a mask allows everyone to 'feel safe' enough to attend



Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

I would wear a mask if it meant we could have a full house at games.

I struggle with the inconsistency. Take Wimbledon, packed stadium, VIP's not wearing masks, plebs wearing one. It's as if there's one rule for them and another for the rest or maybe royalty and other celeb's can't get Covid. Football should be treated no different from any other sporting event.

[ElginHibbie]

I would wear a mask if it meant we could have a full house at games.

I struggle with the inconsistency. Take Wimbledon, packed stadium, VIP's not wearing masks, plebs wearing one. It's as if there's one rule for them and another for the rest or maybe royalty and other celeb's can't get Covid. Football should be treated no different from any other sporting event.

I had a friend who went to Wimbledon as a pleb, he had to show proof of a negative test to get in but there weren't any rules forcing him to wear a mask once in.

To me that's the obvious answer for all of this, prove you've had a vaccine or a recent negative test to get in and once in mask are a personal choice

[ABZHFC]

Or maybe a simple thing like wearing a mask allows everyone to 'feel safe' enough to attend


Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

We never used to wear masks to protect people from flu at winter time, I am not about to start doing it now. I will happily provide a negative test result before going to games (for a short while) if that helps people feel safe to attend. But the truth is we cannot cater exclusively for those terrified of catching the virus any longer, we must go back to normal now that it is safe to do so

[ElginHibbie]

Chelsea just announced fans will have to show proof of double vaccination or a negative test to get into their games this season

Only matter of time till all clubs of a certain size (Hibs included) follow suit I'd bet

[GreenCastle]

Your last paragraph is spot on. Some disappointed people I suspect if we think that a switch is going to be flicked on August 9th and we're going to fully zoom back to 2019 as if the past 18 months never happened and won't leave some sort of enduring legacy on some aspects of life, however minor they may be.

I really don’t think this is the case. People understand what we have been through and no one expects things to go back to the way they were exactly. The world has moved on.

It’s like people are trying to point score by saying this - majority want life to get going again but obviously within reason and as governments say it’s finding a balance and right now the balance is very cautiously weighted in Scotland. Many folk aren’t following the limited restrictions and life is functioning again so let’s keep this going and open more stadia up where the risk is very low being outdoors.

[superfurryhibby]

I had a friend who went to Wimbledon as a pleb, he had to show proof of a negative test to get in but there weren't any rules forcing him to wear a mask once in.

To me that's the obvious answer for all of this, prove you've had a vaccine or a recent negative test to get in and once in mask are a personal choice

Yes, that seems like the way forward. Much as I am absolutely sick of testing, I would be happy to do so prior to going to a game.

[Just Alf]

We never used to wear masks to protect people from flu at winter time, I am not about to start doing it now. I will happily provide a negative test result before going to games (for a short while) if that helps people feel safe to attend. But the truth is we cannot cater exclusively for those terrified of catching the virus any longer, we must go back to normal now that it is safe to do soIf you post this in a few months time then I'd imagine most would agree, while we have a decent percentage of the population still to be vaccinated its a wee bit early.

[hibsbollah]

I really don’t think this is the case. People understand what we have been through and no one expects things to go back to the way they were exactly. The world has moved on.

It’s like people are trying to point score by saying this - majority want life to get going again but obviously within reason and as governments say it’s finding a balance and right now the balance is very cautiously weighted in Scotland. Many folk aren’t following the limited restrictions and life is functioning again so let’s keep this going and open more stadia up where the risk is very low being outdoors.

You’re talking about finding a balance, and saying the balance is ‘very cautiously weighted’ in Scotland, which is fine. But the OP is talking about aiming for 100% full stadiums and no restrictions whatsoever. Eh? He’s also advocating putting pressure on politicians to open everything up without controls; do we really want decision makers pressurized by folk with no expert knowledge into making health decisions? Seriously?

I get we all want to go back and see Hibs again but like you, I’d like to see a balanced approach. We have international experts opining that if you actually wanted to create the perfect conditions for new variants, you’d follow the policies the UK govt are currently proposing. The Scottish Govt seems to be pressurized into falling behind this timetable. That gives me some concern, maybe I’m just ‘cowering’….

[calumhibee1]

If you post this in a few months time then I'd imagine most would agree, while we have a decent percentage of the population still to be vaccinated its a wee bit early.

Is it not a fairly tiny percentage that haven’t been vaccinated and want to be?

We can’t keep everyone locked down because folk like Josh Taylor etc don’t want the vaccine.

[ABZHFC]

If you post this in a few months time then I'd imagine most would agree, while we have a decent percentage of the population still to be vaccinated its a wee bit early.

I accept this, but then we were all told the same back in May, and I imagine in a few months time it will change to 'we need a few more months to make sure the vulnerable have their booster shots'. It will go on and on, time to end this while we can

[neil7908]

I accept this, but then we were all told the same back in May, and I imagine in a few months time it will change to 'we need a few more months to make sure the vulnerable have their booster shots'. It will go on and on, time to end this while we can

For me we need to wait until every adult has had a chance to get their second dose, and then add a few weeks for the vaccine to kick in, cover rearranged appointments etc. Note I don't say that every adult should be vaccinated, just been given the chance. That's likely to be end of September.

At that point I think it's fair to say we've done all we can. That plus vaccine passports would be my approach. Imo there are just far too many unvaxxed adults - and not just young people, plenty of over 40s. If someone doesn't want to get vaccinated we shouldn't force them, just make it much more difficult for them to interact with others socially.

[calumhibee1]

You’re talking about finding a balance, and saying the balance is ‘very cautiously weighted’ in Scotland, which is fine. But the OP is talking about aiming for 100% full stadiums and no restrictions whatsoever. Eh? He’s also advocating putting pressure on politicians to open everything up without controls; do we really want decision makers pressurized by folk with no expert knowledge into making health decisions? Seriously?

I get we all want to go back and see Hibs again but like you, I’d like to see a balanced approach. We have international experts opining that if you actually wanted to create the perfect conditions for new variants, you’d follow the policies the UK govt are currently proposing. The Scottish Govt seems to be pressurized into falling behind this timetable. That gives me some concern, maybe I’m just ‘cowering’….

We also had experts saying new cases will get up to 100k and that cases would soar. Instead they’ve come down.

[ElginHibbie]

Is it not a fairly tiny percentage that haven’t been vaccinated and want to be?

We can’t keep everyone locked down because folk like Josh Taylor etc don’t want the vaccine.

Over 20% of people who have had first vaccine haven't had a second, and presumably nearly all of them will want the second one

[calumhibee1]

For me we need to wait until every adult has had a chance to get their second dose, and then add a few weeks for the vaccine to kick in, cover rearranged appointments etc. Note I don't say that every adult should be vaccinated, just been given the chance. That's likely to be end of September.

At that point I think it's fair to say we've done all we can. That plus vaccine passports would be my approach. Imo there are just far too many unvaxxed adults - and not just young people, plenty of over 40s. If someone doesn't want to get vaccinated we shouldn't force them, just make it much more difficult for them to interact with others socially.

The problem with that is that we then come into winter and get hammered at a time when the NHS is already incredibly busy.

The NHS is MUCH more capable of handling an easing now than they will be once everyone is vaccinated and had the chance for it to kick in. We also have better weather just now so we can ease it while people can spend time outdoors. Wait until the end of October, dark nights etc and everyone will want to be indoors and spreading it and the NHS will struggle, likely more than they would just now.

[calumhibee1]

Over 20% of people who have had first vaccine haven't had a second, and presumably nearly all of them will want the second one

:aok:

Keep in mind one dose also offers protection.

[Just Alf]

Is it not a fairly tiny percentage that haven’t been vaccinated and want to be?

We can’t keep everyone locked down because folk like Josh Taylor etc don’t want the vaccine.

As of yesterday 89% have had 1st dose, 69% the 2nd.

Just on those figures there's 20% of the adult population willing to be vaccinated and still haven't yet been fully done ( 2nd vax date + 2 weeks before it's fully working).

There's still others on top that are just getting their 1st jag, all be it much, much, smaller numbers than previously, despite plenty supply and the ability to just walk up at many centres now so we are I guess nearing the end of those that actually want the vaccination.

[ElginHibbie]

:aok:

Keep in mind one dose also offers protection.

That is true, but there was a study this week that said one shot of Pfizer isn't enough for "high protection" against the Delta variant, so there is still a higher risk for those with only one vaccine that needs to be taken into account

[basehibby]

if viruses didnt mutate then this OP would be a cracker

but viruses do mutate

the original mutation was getting under control in Scotland 13 months ago (June 29th 2020 headlines read that Scotland had its 8th consecutive day without a single Covid fatality, way ahead of other nations)

the problem was others did not have the virus under control (first Kent, then India) so the new variants emerged that spread quicker and hit you harder, potentially even being immune to existing treatments as they mutate.

the World Health Organisation has queried the lifting of all restrictions during the current phase (in England) as being "exactly what you would do if you wanted to create a new mutation that is resitant to the AZ & Pfizer vaccines" making for a full *new* worldwide lockdown and back to square one.

You may have guessed, given that, I disagree with the OP and I wish our irresponsible next door neighbour England was not playing fire with a mutating virus

The most radically different mutation is still more than 99.5% similar to the original Wuhan strain. That's not to say they may not behave slightly differently but they are the same virus. So if the "existing treatments" are outfoxed then they are basically not very good. NB this does seem to be borne out by little strain on hospitals and few deaths despite apparently lots of delta floating about.

[Just Alf]

That is true, but there was a study this week that said one shot of Pfizer isn't enough for "high protection" against the Delta variant, so there is still a higher risk for those with only one vaccine that needs to be taken into account

It was the FT .... Pfizer was approx 36% effective after 1st dose and 81% two weeks after 2nd dose .... both 1st and 2nd doses were very effective at preventing deaths though. AstraZeneca was also 36% but not quite as good at preventing infection @ 60 odd percent after 2nd dose but just as effective at serious illness/death prevention

[hibsbollah]

We also had experts saying new cases will get up to 100k and that cases would soar. Instead they’ve come down.

…they did soar. Corresponding with mass gatherings involving football fans in London.

[calumhibee1]

…they did soar. Corresponding with mass gatherings involving football fans in London.

They were supposed to hit 100k based on the opening up of England. They’ve dropped. Alot.

[hibsbollah]

They were supposed to hit 100k based on the opening up of England. They’ve dropped. Alot.


I know. A gradual improvement in numbers thanks to the vaccination programme. With peaks of infections that goes against that pattern, peaks that also correspond with large gatherings of football supporters in London. Im not sure whats to be gained by repeating our posts :confused:

[Up The Bracket]

They were supposed to hit 100k based on the opening up of England. They’ve dropped. Alot.

Yup and apparently hospitalisation was going to pass the January peak by June.

I do get the “scientists know more than you” stance because they absolutely do but different scientists are saying different things and different governments are implementing different rules based on different advice from different people.

It’s absolutely true that some scientists are making a killing out of this and don’t want it to end and are therefore peddling scary figures to keep themselves relevant and therefore earning money.

It’s great to see case numbers dropping and the vaccines having such an effect.

I’m in a minority that’s not had my first dose yet due to picking up covid when I was meant to have my vaccine so I now need to wait 28 days (until next week) to grab my first dose but the vaccines have clearly fixed the problem and substantially reduced hospitalisation and the tragic harm the virus caused last year and the early part of this year.

Time to get full crowds and masks optional, thanks to the incredibly intelligent people that created the vaccines.

[tamig]

We never used to wear masks to protect people from flu at winter time, I am not about to start doing it now. I will happily provide a negative test result before going to games (for a short while) if that helps people feel safe to attend. But the truth is we cannot cater exclusively for those terrified of catching the virus any longer, we must go back to normal now that it is safe to do so

Why are you so insistent that this MUST happen - and it MUST happen now? And what qualifies you to deem it's now safe to do so?

Why would some extension of protective measures for a bit longer bother you so much and have such a devastating impact on Scottish football? I also think you're underestimating how a lot of folk feel about this. People aren't necessarily terrified of catching COVID but they'd be quite happy to continue with some reduced measures for a wee bit longer which could ease some of the more "terrified" among the population back into some kind of normal - e.g., getting back to the football. Why should we just dismiss these people - as you appear to be doing?

[tamig]

Your last paragraph is spot on. Some disappointed people I suspect if we think that a switch is going to be flicked on August 9th and we're going to fully zoom back to 2019 as if the past 18 months never happened and won't leave some sort of enduring legacy on some aspects of life, however minor they may be.

Agreed. I think some of the "new normal" will largely be driven from within. A lot of people's behaviour will be slightly modified post-COVID. Some minor restrictions may be applied by individual businesses etc but I think a lot of people have got into the habit of doing normal things a bit differently and some of those will endure.

[hibsbollah]

Why are you so insistent that this MUST happen - and it MUST happen now? And what qualifies you to deem it's now safe to do so?

Why would some extension of protective measures for a bit longer bother you so much and have such a devastating impact on Scottish football? I also think you're underestimating how a lot of folk feel about this. People aren't necessarily terrified of catching COVID but they'd be quite happy to continue with some reduced measures for a wee bit longer which could ease some of the more "terrified" among the population back into some kind of normal - e.g., getting back to the football. Why should we just dismiss these people - as you appear to be doing?

:agree: I thought it was a weird OP all round. A few things 1. It wasn’t just the hugging the council flagged up, there were other breaches including the distancing, blocking of exits etc. The only reason to single out the hugging as the reason for the complaint is to exaggerate the argument, ad absurdum. 2. It’s debatable that organisations always grab onto power with both hands and refuse to let go (not exact wording), that sounds like a political argument, in my experience the last thing a body like a local authority wants is extra responsibilities, they want the easiest life possible and to concentrate on their statutory duties as priorities. I’d be amazed if a council wants more work. It’s not like they have endless resources these days. Unless you just mistrust all authority? 3. Yes, as you say, why is it so imperative? Is there new findings about the threat to clubs finances, which I’m not downplaying but probably is still a constant problem we all knew about, is there new information out there about clubs going out of business etc? Does the ‘future of the game depend’ on us chucking all restrictions in the bin, right now? Is that not a bit hysterical? 4. Why isn’t there a middle ground suggestion, maybe even a moderate relaxation in restrictions? Why do we have to leap to ‘full grounds, no restrictions?’

[ABZHFC]

:agree: I thought it was a weird OP all round. A few things 1. It wasn’t just the hugging the council flagged up, there were other breaches including the distancing, blocking of exits etc. The only reason to single out the hugging as the reason for the complaint is to exaggerate the argument, ad absurdum. 2. It’s debatable that organisations always grab onto power with both hands and refuse to let go (not exact wording), that sounds like a political argument, in my experience the last thing a body like a local authority wants is extra responsibilities, they want the easiest life possible and to concentrate on their statutory duties as priorities. I’d be amazed if a council wants more work. It’s not like they have endless resources these days. Unless you just mistrust all authority? 3. Yes, as you say, why is it so imperative? Is there new findings about the threat to clubs finances, which I’m not downplaying but probably is still a constant problem we all knew about, is there new information out there about clubs going out of business etc? Does the ‘future of the game depend’ on us chucking all restrictions in the bin, right now? Is that not a bit hysterical? 4. Why isn’t there a middle ground suggestion, maybe even a moderate relaxation in restrictions? Why do we have to leap to ‘full grounds, no restrictions?’

Considering it has been 18 months since we were allowed into stadiums at full capacity, and the majority of clubs rely on ticket revenue as their number one source of income, then yes, the future of our game does depend on football fans being allowed to return to stadiums in full, with no restrictions in sight. There should be no 'moderate relaxation in restrictions', the current circumstances do not dictate this is necessary whatsoever, and we know that it only gets us into a pointless bartering game with local authorities where we have to beg for 2,000 extra tickets. The time for negotiations are over, we will see full stadiums in England and across Europe in the coming weeks, if the Scottish Government do not go ahead with a full unlocking on the 9th of August, then this will be disastrous for Scotland's game.

Once again, I ask you to go back to March 2020. Someone tells you there's a virus that is killing 7 people a day on average. Do you seriously suggest we suspend/restrict all public events indefinitely? Of course not. It's a status quo bias that leans heavily in favour of those who strongly agree with these now unnecessary restrictions, meanwhile those who crave the freedoms that were once absolutely assumed and unchallenged have to 'prove' they should have them back

[Northernhibee]

Considering it has been 18 months since we were allowed into stadiums at full capacity, and the majority of clubs rely on ticket revenue as their number one source of income, then yes, the future of our game does depend on football fans being allowed to return to stadiums in full, with no restrictions in sight. There should be no 'moderate relaxation in restrictions', the current circumstances do not dictate this is necessary whatsoever, and we know that it only gets us into a pointless bartering game with local authorities where we have to beg for 2,000 extra tickets. The time for negotiations are over, we will see full stadiums in England and across Europe in the coming weeks, if the Scottish Government do not go ahead with a full unlocking on the 9th of August, then this will be disastrous for Scotland's game.

Once again, I ask you to go back to March 2020. Someone tells you there's a virus that is killing 7 people a day on average. Do you seriously suggest we suspend/restrict all public events indefinitely? Of course not. It's a status quo bias that leans heavily in favour of those who strongly agree with these now unnecessary restrictions, meanwhile those who crave the freedoms that were once absolutely assumed and unchallenged have to 'prove' they should have them back

It’s killing seven people a day on average at a time when there have been restrictions in place. False equivalence.

If we remove restrictions we need to make sure we don’t end back up at the starting point or further back. A gung-ho attitude helps nobody if it doesn’t pay off.

[Just Alf]

It’s killing seven people a day on average at a time when there have been restrictions in place. False equivalence.

If we remove restrictions we need to make sure we don’t end back up at the starting point or further back. A gung-ho attitude helps nobody if it doesn’t pay off.

Exactly :agree:

Vaccines. - get that sorted then we're as "good to go" as we'll ever be

[weecounty hibby]

Considering it has been 18 months since we were allowed into stadiums at full capacity, and the majority of clubs rely on ticket revenue as their number one source of income, then yes, the future of our game does depend on football fans being allowed to return to stadiums in full, with no restrictions in sight. There should be no 'moderate relaxation in restrictions', the current circumstances do not dictate this is necessary whatsoever, and we know that it only gets us into a pointless bartering game with local authorities where we have to beg for 2,000 extra tickets. The time for negotiations are over, we will see full stadiums in England and across Europe in the coming weeks, if the Scottish Government do not go ahead with a full unlocking on the 9th of August, then this will be disastrous for Scotland's game.

Once again, I ask you to go back to March 2020. Someone tells you there's a virus that is killing 7 people a day on average. Do you seriously suggest we suspend/restrict all public events indefinitely? Of course not. It's a status quo bias that leans heavily in favour of those who strongly agree with these now unnecessary restrictions, meanwhile those who crave the freedoms that were once absolutely assumed and unchallenged have to 'prove' they should have them back

7 people per day dying at a time where we have seen lockdowns, mask wearing, vaccinations, borders closed, quarantines, no international travel, large gatherings banned, social distancing, screens in shops etc. You are forgetting the people, in the hundreds of thousand now, suffering from long covid. But aye let's all get back to doing none of the above cos only 7 people are dying and they're probably old anyway!!

[WhileTheChief..]

Plenty folk out there still enjoying lockdown / working from home.

They're in no rush to get double jagged and told to get back to the office.

[ElginHibbie]

Plenty folk out there still enjoying lockdown / working from home / furlough.

They're in no rush to get double jagged and told to get back to the office.

90% uptake on first dose and 70% uptake of second dose so far, but aye people are no in rush to get the vaccine

[WhileTheChief..]

90% uptake on first dose and 70% uptake of second dose so far, but aye people are no in rush to get the vaccine

I never said that though. Read the full sentence.

[Jay]

7 people per day dying at a time where we have seen lockdowns, mask wearing, vaccinations, borders closed, quarantines, no international travel, large gatherings banned, social distancing, screens in shops etc. You are forgetting the people, in the hundreds of thousand now, suffering from long covid. But aye let's all get back to doing none of the above cos only 7 people are dying and they're probably old anyway!!

What about the thousands not getting treatment who dont know what they face yet? Keeping us in lockdown will cause many more deaths in the coming year or so because of delays. A couple of months could make all the difference. Colonoscopys, endoscopys ,scans all postponed or delayed partly because the services are still limited and playing catch up and partly because of the rules on isolation.

[ElginHibbie]

I never said that though. Read the full sentence.


They're in no rush to get double jagged and told to get back to the office.

Not sure what the rest of the sentence has to do with it other than you making stuff up?

[Rumble de Thump]

We're not in a lockdown.

[Northernhibee]

What about the thousands not getting treatment who dont know what they face yet? Keeping us in lockdown will cause many more deaths in the coming year or so because of delays. A couple of months could make all the difference. Colonoscopys, endoscopys ,scans all postponed or delayed partly because the services are still limited and playing catch up and partly because of the rules on isolation.

In that case it’s vital we don’t fill the hospital with COVID cases to allow the NHS to divert staff and time to working through the backlog.

My partner works in a hospital and it does them no good to keep closing and reopening wards for COVID. Sooner they can close them, clean them and use them to work on things that aren’t COVID, the better.

[weecounty hibby]

What about the thousands not getting treatment who dont know what they face yet? Keeping us in lockdown will cause many more deaths in the coming year or so because of delays. A couple of months could make all the difference. Colonoscopys, endoscopys ,scans all postponed or delayed partly because the services are still limited and playing catch up and partly because of the rules on isolation.
Exactly why we need to make sure there are rules and they are followed. Closing wards/hospitals because of Covid patients and covid + staff is unsustainable so rules need to be in place and followed. Fwiw my mum died of cancer recently but during the pandemic she never missed an appointment, had two procedures to make her more comfortable and finished her radiotherapy. All to no avail but nonetheless still all done during covid restrictions. She also had lung cancer, struggled for breath but had no issues with wearing a mask when out in public.

[calumhibee1]

Exactly :agree:

Vaccines. - get that sorted then we're as "good to go" as we'll ever be

But we won’t be. Because then we’re into winter and the issues that winter causes the NHS in a normal year will still be around and the NHS will be overwhelmed.

Opening now allows us to deal with the fall out of opening up and removing restrictions at the best moment in time for us to deal with it. Opening up once everyone has had their vaccines doesn’t.

In terms of protecting the NHS, it’s right now that we’re as good to go as we’ll ever be. Not 2-3 months away.

[Jay]

In that case it’s vital we don’t fill the hospital with COVID cases to allow the NHS to divert staff and time to working through the backlog.

My partner works in a hospital and it does them no good to keep closing and reopening wards for COVID. Sooner they can close them, clean them and use them to work on things that aren’t COVID, the better.

We havent overwhelmed the hospitals though. Even during the first wave the hospitals coped - just- but they did. They'll never be in that position again because of the vaccinations. This delta wave has proved they can cope.

[Jay]

Exactly why we need to make sure there are rules and they are followed. Closing wards/hospitals because of Covid patients and covid + staff is unsustainable so rules need to be in place and followed. Fwiw my mum died of cancer recently but during the pandemic she never missed an appointment, had two procedures to make her more comfortable and finished her radiotherapy. All to no avail but nonetheless still all done during covid restrictions. She also had lung cancer, struggled for breath but had no issues with wearing a mask when out in public.

But what rules would stop covid completely? We have worked so hard, I honestly think people forget how tough the last 16 months have been. What is the stage people would like restrictions lifted? How much further down the line? Zero deaths? Then the next time theres 2 deaths we shut everything again? What's the endgame? I'd like the isolation rules changed if your double vaxed, that alone would make a huge difference. Sitting at the football being told that we cant sing or hug is ridiculous. We can do it with 8 people in the house but nobody outdoors

[Northernhibee]

We havent overwhelmed the hospitals though. Even during the first wave the hospitals coped - just- but they did. They'll never be in that position again because of the vaccinations. This delta wave has proved they can cope.

They also can’t be opening and closing wards all the time when they have a backlog of other treatments.

[GreenCastle]

In that case it’s vital we don’t fill the hospital with COVID cases to allow the NHS to divert staff and time to working through the backlog.

My partner works in a hospital and it does them no good to keep closing and reopening wards for COVID. Sooner they can close them, clean them and use them to work on things that aren’t COVID, the better.

As someone else mentioned not all hospitals were full. Plus many extra hospitals didn’t see a single patient and were dismantled.

The bigger issue of sorting the NHS and improving facilities / staff and paying the amazing workers better wages would be a start.

Protect the NHS - it should really be support through structure better and be more prepared for the next pandemic - learn from all the mistakes of limited PPE etc.

[Jay]

They also can’t be opening and closing wards all the time when they have a backlog of other treatments.

The majority of staff are back in their own units/wards now. Is it any different from opening up winter wards every year?

[weecounty hibby]

But what rules would stop covid completely? We have worked so hard, I honestly think people forget how tough the last 16 months have been. What is the stage people would like restrictions lifted? How much further down the line? Zero deaths? Then the next time theres 2 deaths we shut everything again? What's the endgame? I'd like the isolation rules changed if your double vaxed, that alone would make a huge difference. Sitting at the football being told that we cant sing or hug is ridiculous. We can do it with 8 people in the house but nobody outdoors
There are no rules that will stop it completely and allow us to go about our business to any degree. But that also doesn't mean we can't keep being as cautious as possible. Things like face masks are honestly not an issue, and are only an issue if folk want them to be. I already gave the example of my mum with lung cancer managing and my youngest daughter has two chronic lung diseases but she can wear one without any issues at all. And to say folk have forgotten how tough the last 18 months have been is nonsense. Believe me when I say I and my family know exactly how tough it has been. My wife has long covid, has had a heart attack attributed to it and is completely ****ed to the extent that she is off work sick now and can barely get up the stairs without being knackered. If people wearing masks can help prevent **** like that then I don't believe that it's too much to ask.

[Jay]

There are no rules that will stop it completely and allow us to go about our business to any degree. But that also doesn't mean we can't keep being as cautious as possible. Things like face masks are honestly not an issue, and are only an issue if folk want them to be. I already gave the example of my mum with lung cancer managing and my youngest daughter has two chronic lung diseases but she can wear one without any issues at all. And to say folk have forgotten how tough the last 18 months have been is nonsense. Believe me when I say I and my family know exactly how tough it has been. My wife has long covid, has had a heart attack attributed to it and is completely ****ed to the extent that she is off work sick now and can barely get up the stairs without being knackered. If people wearing masks can help prevent **** like that then I don't believe that it's too much to ask.

I'm not arguing about the wearing of masks although I disagree that they arent an issue to many. I challenge you to ask a menopausal woman on a hot bus wearing a mask how uncomfortable it is. I've been close to passing out at times . Weve all got stories, i was incredibly ill myself in 2019,
couple of times we didnt think I was gonna make it , was just getting on my feet and thinking about life again when lockdown happened. I never said youd personally forgotten but I think a lot of people have. It's been a horrible time. The knock on effect for many youngsters is awful and we need to get their lives back. My youngest was just hitting the most exciting time , turning 18 prom, advanced highers, uni, nightclubs...hes already turned 19 and missed it all. Yes he has his health but we need to let these kids live again. They locked down for us! I've got a 2 year old grandson who has barely mixed with other kids.

How cautious do you want? Just masks? Or restrictions remain and mental health as well as people with cancer, some yet undiagnosed etc suffer.

[weecounty hibby]

I'm not arguing about the wearing of masks although I disagree that they arent an issue to many. I challenge you to ask a menopausal woman on a hot bus wearing a mask how uncomfortable it is. I've been close to passing out at times . Weve all got stories, i was incredibly ill myself in 2019,
couple of times we didnt think I was gonna make it , was just getting on my feet and thinking about life again when lockdown happened. I never said youd personally forgotten but I think a lot of people have. It's been a horrible time. The knock on effect for many youngsters is awful and we need to get their lives back. My youngest was just hitting the most exciting time , turning 18 prom, advanced highers, uni, nightclubs...hes already turned 19 and missed it all. Yes he has his health but we need to let these kids live again. They locked down for us! I've got a 2 year old grandson who has barely mixed with other kids.

How cautious do you want? Just masks? Or restrictions remain and mental health as well as people with cancer, some yet undiagnosed etc suffer.
Masks for me is one that should remain. Simple and effective in preventing the spread of infection. I agree about getting life back on track again and have kids about the same age as yours. But back on track shouldn't be a free for all, just bash on and everyone ignore any kind of preventative measures.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

So it’s all clear then :)

I think we hopefully all want the same thing - some return to a kind of normality as soon as possible - to start living after a lengthy pause button seemingly stuck.

Conflicting politics/expert opinion (some with a political slant), personal circumstances, appetite to risk and whether you’ve known someone with COVID and had bad outcomes or know someone directly affected through the health service or key workers.

Impossible to cover all the bases. I don’t envy either government. My view on the UK governments will not change - at each turn they have taken the one that seeks to open up soonest and take the hit on infections and deaths. For me that is inexcusable. Therefore it seems bonkers to me to adversely compare and contrast the Scottish Governments approach (and I’m no Nationalist) when most of the rest of the world (the exceptions of the deranged right-wing Bolsonaro and his looney toons idol Trump. And bizarrely the Swedes!) have rejected that approach.

Here’s hoping it’s not too long.

[Jay]

Masks for me is one that should remain. Simple and effective in preventing the spread of infection. I agree about getting life back on track again and have kids about the same age as yours. But back on track shouldn't be a free for all, just bash on and everyone ignore any kind of preventative measures.

So masks in shops and public transport? What else? I'm genuinely interested. Would you prefer even double vaxed people to wear masks at the fitba? Seriously what's that preventing? We will never get back to normality. I want my kids to get their lives back. They should be travelling, seeing the world, going to festivals and generally being pished. They turned their lives off, we need to give them it back.

[Since90+2]

So masks in shops and public transport? What else? I'm genuinely interested. Would you prefer even double vaxed people to wear masks at the fitba? Seriously what's that preventing? We will never get back to normality. I want my kids to get their lives back. They should be travelling, seeing the world, going to festivals and generally being pished. They turned their lives off, we need to give them it back.

Totally agree.

[weecounty hibby]

So masks in shops and public transport? What else? I'm genuinely interested. Would you prefer even double vaxed people to wear masks at the fitba? Seriously what's that preventing? We will never get back to normality. I want my kids to get their lives back. They should be travelling, seeing the world, going to festivals and generally being pished. They turned their lives off, we need to give them it back.

Masks in shops etc, yes I'd keep for the time being. Simple and effective in preventing transmission of infection. Outdoors, probably not. Double vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch and pass on the infection either. It makes it much less likely but not impossible. I'm also curious as to what you would do? Free for all with immediate cessation of all rules and guidance about what to do? What would you deem as an acceptable death rate to allow normal life again. 7 per day was mentioned earlier but that is against a backdrop of restrictions. What if that was to shoot up again to hundreds per day because we relaxed the wearing of masks too soon? All ifs and buts and I would rather have another 8/12 weeks of caution to have the vast majority of the population double vaccinated than to just go for it right now

[Jay]

Masks in shops etc, yes I'd keep for the time being. Simple and effective in preventing transmission of infection. Outdoors, probably not. Double vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch and pass on the infection either. It makes it much less likely but not impossible. I'm also curious as to what you would do? Free for all with immediate cessation of all rules and guidance about what to do? What would you deem as an acceptable death rate to allow normal life again. 7 per day was mentioned earlier but that is against a backdrop of restrictions. What if that was to shoot up again to hundreds per day because we relaxed the wearing of masks too soon? All ifs and buts and I would rather have another 8/12 weeks of caution to have the vast majority of the population double vaccinated than to just go for it right now

Being double vaccinated means I'm unlikely to get ill if I catch the virus, chances are I'd be symptom free. So if I went to the football and sat with someone else who is double vaxed and gave it to them they would more than likely be okay too. The chances of all of that happening must be so slim anyway and the consequences of it in the event it did happen are pretty minor. We take risks with our health every day. We cant live in a sterile bubble, our immune systems wont cope for a start.

People.who feel vulnerable or are vulnerable have to make their own life assessments, like we did before covid. I was a nurse with a low immune system due to drugs I take. I knew the risks and the only thing I requested was not to be put in a norovirus ward.

Personally I'd keep the masks indoors for a few more weeks, end sept/oct til everybody's had the chance to be double vaxed then get rid and make them personal choice. Everything else goes back to normal in aug apart from foreign travel which would have to be dependant on your destination or people arriving here being vaccinated.

Obviously there's no acceptable death rate, that wasnt a fair question but whats an acceptable death rate for untreated cancer or how many suicides is acceptable . None is the answer, it's all about balance. People die from all sorts, outbreaks of meningitis, norovirus can be a killer and obviously the flu. Are we going to live in a society that lockdown for everything. Even chicken pox can kill. All we can do is have the vaccine and get on with our lives

[Sir David Gray]

Being double vaccinated means I'm unlikely to get ill if I catch the virus, chances are I'd be symptom free. So if I went to the football and sat with someone else who is double vaxed and gave it to them they would more than likely be okay too. The chances of all of that happening must be so slim anyway and the consequences of it in the event it did happen are pretty minor. We take risks with our health every day. We cant live in a sterile bubble, our immune systems wont cope for a start.

People.who feel vulnerable or are vulnerable have to make their own life assessments, like we did before covid. I was a nurse with a low immune system due to drugs I take. I knew the risks and the only thing I requested was not to be put in a norovirus ward.

Personally I'd keep the masks indoors for a few more weeks, end sept/oct til everybody's had the chance to be double vaxed then get rid and make them personal choice. Everything else goes back to normal in aug apart from foreign travel which would have to be dependant on your destination or people arriving here being vaccinated.

Obviously there's no acceptable death rate, that wasnt a fair question but whats an acceptable death rate for untreated cancer or how many suicides is acceptable . None is the answer, it's all about balance. People die from all sorts, outbreaks of meningitis, norovirus can be a killer and obviously the flu. Are we going to live in a society that lockdown for everything. Even chicken pox can kill. All we can do is have the vaccine and get on with our lives

:top marks

[weecounty hibby]

Being double vaccinated means I'm unlikely to get ill if I catch the virus, chances are I'd be symptom free. So if I went to the football and sat with someone else who is double vaxed and gave it to them they would more than likely be okay too. The chances of all of that happening must be so slim anyway and the consequences of it in the event it did happen are pretty minor. We take risks with our health every day. We cant live in a sterile bubble, our immune systems wont cope for a start.

People.who feel vulnerable or are vulnerable have to make their own life assessments, like we did before covid. I was a nurse with a low immune system due to drugs I take. I knew the risks and the only thing I requested was not to be put in a norovirus ward.

Personally I'd keep the masks indoors for a few more weeks, end sept/oct til everybody's had the chance to be double vaxed then get rid and make them personal choice. Everything else goes back to normal apart from foreign travel which would have to be dependant on your destination or people arriving here being vaccinated.

Obviously there's no acceptable death rate, that wasnt a fair question but what ana acceptable death rate for untreated cancer or how many suicides is acceptable . None is the answer, it's all about balance. People die from all sorts, outbreaks of meningitis, norovirus can be a killer and obviously the flu. Are we going to live in a society that lockdown for everything. Even chicken pox can kill. All we can do is have the vaccine and get on with our lives
Right, so after all that I think we actually agree!!!.

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant see the problem with opening grounds again to folk who have had 2 jabs, we cant keep the country locked down forever, and there are many many more places much worse than an open football stadium where people can go now without having had 1 jab.

I'd go further and say you cant come in a football ground, pub, nightclub if you have not been double jabbed by September.

There will obviously be folk who are exempt, but i say thats just tough luck. Football is not compulsory, you dont need to go, but the people who do go should be safe, and i'm sorry but people without the jab have more chance of catching it and being ill, so in theory, i'm looking after you.

This virus is not going away, and the only way through this is by vaccination, so if you dont want the jab, then there will be consequences with that decision, and football should be one of them, along with other things like the cinema, concerts and the likes where big crowds gather.

[Alfred E Newman]

7 people per day dying at a time where we have seen lockdowns, mask wearing, vaccinations, borders closed, quarantines, no international travel, large gatherings banned, social distancing, screens in shops etc. You are forgetting the people, in the hundreds of thousand now, suffering from long covid. But aye let's all get back to doing none of the above cos only 7 people are dying and they're probably old anyway!!

Over 1500 people die in the UK every day in a normal year.

[weecounty hibby]

Over 1500 people die every day in a normal year.
Of what?

[Since90+2]

Of what?

I'd imagine they mean that's all deaths?

[Alfred E Newman]

Of what?

What a stupid question.
I would assume heart attack, stroke, cancer, accident, suicide, etc, etc, etc.

[weecounty hibby]

I'd imagine they mean that's all deaths?

Yeah, that's what I thought too. But we were talking about a highly contagious infection with a high mortality rate and pretty severe symptoms that was a completely new virus that we had no idea how to deal with

[Eyrie]

I cant see the problem with opening grounds again to folk who have had 2 jabs, we cant keep the country locked down forever, and there are many many more places much worse than an open football stadium where people can go now without having had 1 jab.

I'd go further and say you cant come in a football ground, pub, nightclub if you have not been double jabbed by September.

There will obviously be folk who are exempt, but i say thats just tough luck. Football is not compulsory, you dont need to go, but the people who do go should be safe, and i'm sorry but people without the jab have more chance of catching it and being ill, so in theory, i'm looking after you.

This virus is not going away, and the only way through this is by vaccination, so if you dont want the jab, then there will be consequences with that decision, and football should be one of them, along with other things like the cinema, concerts and the likes where big crowds gather.

Only thing I would add to that is to allow people who can't have the vaccine for health reasons given an exemption certificate that allows them to attend football, pubs etc where they would be mixing (at their own risk) with those who have had both vaccinations.

But anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated would also be making the choice not to attend such places. That would apply regardless of why they made that choice, which could range from valid (to them) religious reasons right through to lunatic conspiracy theories.

[Jay]

Out of interest does anybody know what health conditions mean that you cant have the vaccine. There must be some but I've not heard of anyone and cant find much info.

[ancient hibee]

I see that the latest figures for Scotland are that 30% of 19s to 29s and 20% of 30s to 39s have not had one jag. Makes crowded football stadia unappealing.

[blackpoolhibs]

Only thing I would add to that is to allow people who can't have the vaccine for health reasons given an exemption certificate that allows them to attend football, pubs etc where they would be mixing (at their own risk) with those who have had both vaccinations.

But anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated would also be making the choice not to attend such places. That would apply regardless of why they made that choice, which could range from valid (to them) religious reasons right through to lunatic conspiracy theories.

Not for me, you only need to see all those folk who had those exemptions around their necks in shops/pubs/supermarkets when it's clear as the nose on your face there was nothing wrong with them. I even watched them sharing it in a pub, a pub with karaoke on when they were all up singing their heads off, but couldn't wear a mask to go to the toilet because they had breathing problems.

My arse, it's too open for abuse, if you are that ill you cant wear a mask, and have the vaccine, then you are too ill to go to the football.

[GreenCastle]

Being double vaccinated means I'm unlikely to get ill if I catch the virus, chances are I'd be symptom free. So if I went to the football and sat with someone else who is double vaxed and gave it to them they would more than likely be okay too. The chances of all of that happening must be so slim anyway and the consequences of it in the event it did happen are pretty minor. We take risks with our health every day. We cant live in a sterile bubble, our immune systems wont cope for a start.

People.who feel vulnerable or are vulnerable have to make their own life assessments, like we did before covid. I was a nurse with a low immune system due to drugs I take. I knew the risks and the only thing I requested was not to be put in a norovirus ward.

Personally I'd keep the masks indoors for a few more weeks, end sept/oct til everybody's had the chance to be double vaxed then get rid and make them personal choice. Everything else goes back to normal in aug apart from foreign travel which would have to be dependant on your destination or people arriving here being vaccinated.

Obviously there's no acceptable death rate, that wasnt a fair question but whats an acceptable death rate for untreated cancer or how many suicides is acceptable . None is the answer, it's all about balance. People die from all sorts, outbreaks of meningitis, norovirus can be a killer and obviously the flu. Are we going to live in a society that lockdown for everything. Even chicken pox can kill. All we can do is have the vaccine and get on with our lives

Nailed it !

Though the indoor mask thing..still doesn’t make sense to me at times.

You can wear a mask to enter a restaurant then when you eat you keep mask off the whole time?? Same being on a plane then eating a meal.

Spoken to a few hairdressers and they aren’t fussed and would prefer no masks but that’s probably more risky than a family sitting at a table with no mask. A driving instructor is quite close to someone also and several other professions but folk should be able to make own mind up if they feel safe. Sharing a van / bin lorry staff etc. Though maybe companies / peer pressure makes it hard if you don’t feel comfortable to speak up.

I know I would feel safe at ER and that’s not knowing if everyone has had 2 jabs - that’s my risk but happy to take it. Don’t see that as selfish just I know the risks.

Outdoors and masks need to go - it’s just ridiculous. Seeing folk sit in cars and walking down street with no one near them with a mask on is extreme.

[ElginHibbie]

Not for me, you only need to see all those folk who had those exemptions around their necks in shops/pubs/supermarkets when it's clear as the nose on your face there was nothing wrong with them. I even watched them sharing it in a pub, a pub with karaoke on when they were all up singing their heads off, but couldn't wear a mask to go to the toilet because they had breathing problems.

My arse, it's too open for abuse, if you are that ill you cant wear a mask, and have the vaccine, then you are too ill to go to the football.

I have just presumed the people with the things round their necks have bought them off Amazon, doubt any of them have been seen by anyone to actually be exempt medically

For a vaccine passport thing to work it would need to involve the NHS and their records, so then surely exemptions could be done as would need a GP to actual exempt someone which shouldn't be open to abuse?

[blackpoolhibs]

I have just presumed the people with the things round their necks have bought them off Amazon, doubt any of them have been seen by anyone to actually be exempt medically

For a vaccine passport thing to work it would need to involve the NHS and their records, so then surely exemptions could be done as would need a GP to actual exempt someone which shouldn't be open to abuse?

They did not have to see anyone, vet/doctor/police, they downloaded the pass off the internet. :faf:

[GreenCastle]

They did not have to see anyone, vet/doctor/police, they downloaded the pass off the internet. :faf:

You can get them free here - https://exempt.scot/

Not that hard.

[ElginHibbie]

They did not have to see anyone, vet/doctor/police, they downloaded the pass off the internet. :faf:

Jeez, thought there would have been at least some effort involved, though thinking about some of those who have them there being any effort would have probably put them off doing it

[GreenCastle]

I see that the latest figures for Scotland are that 30% of 19s to 29s and 20% of 30s to 39s have not had one jag. Makes crowded football stadia unappealing.

So 70% and 80% have had a vaccination? Not that bad. Was it not all the school kids spreading it before the school holidays? Then the Euros increased cases.

You are never getting 100%.

73% of Scotland have had 1 jab
57% of Scotland have had 2 jabs

This will keep increasing every day - so by September this should be looking very good. This is when schools and students are back studying / hybrid studying - mixing and mingling.

The issue you have is school kids and students (variety of people travelling into Scotland) from all over.

If you want to be really picky - I would be more concerned sitting in the Famous Five lower stand than the West Stand.

[Just Alf]

You can get them free here - https://exempt.scot/

Not that hard.

You have to wonder at the mentality of someone who reads the 1st section on that front page when they still go ahead and "side step" the rules, just another example of folks that can't have the "grown up conversation" we all wanted I guess..




"The World Health Organisation (WHO) recommends the use of face coverings to reduce the transmission of COVID-19. The best scientific and medical evidence available is that, when used correctly, wearing a face covering provides some additional protection, especially in crowded and less well ventilated spaces, and where two metre physical distancing is not possible.

That is why the Scottish Government has made face coverings mandatory on public transport, shops, most indoor public places and indoor communal areas within workplaces. More information on the benefits of face coverings, how to make, wear and clean one safely, as well as a full list of places where they need to be worn can be found on the Scottish Government website link icon.

Most people can wear a face covering and must do so in the mandated spaces in order to prevent the transmission of COVID-19 in Scotland and protect ourselves, each other and the NHS."

[Jay]

They did not have to see anyone, vet/doctor/police, they downloaded the pass off the internet. :faf:

The sad thing is that some people had the lanyard before covid and relied on them. Idiots using them as an excuse has ruined that for many. They were a godsend. Airport staff and crew were trained to look out for them now they couldnt possibly deal with everybody who wears one. They were often worn by children who couldnt cope with queues or with new things and needed a bit of support. Now harry doon the road wears one and nobody pays attention to them

[GreenCastle]

You have to wonder at the mentality of someone who reads the 1st section on that front page when they still go ahead and "side step" the rules, just another example of folks that can't have the "grown up conversation" we all wanted I guess..

"The World Health Organisation (WHO) recommends the use of face coverings to reduce the transmission of COVID-19. The best scientific and medical evidence available is that, when used correctly, wearing a face covering provides some additional protection, especially in crowded and less well ventilated spaces, and where two metre physical distancing is not possible.

That is why the Scottish Government has made face coverings mandatory on public transport, shops, most indoor public places and indoor communal areas within workplaces. More information on the benefits of face coverings, how to make, wear and clean one safely, as well as a full list of places where they need to be worn can be found on the Scottish Government website link icon.

Most people can wear a face covering and must do so in the mandated spaces in order to prevent the transmission of COVID-19 in Scotland and protect ourselves, each other and the NHS."

Plenty folk are exempt -

“Mental health:

you might feel trapped or claustrophobic, panicked or anxious and be exempt from wearing a face covering for these reasons”

Easy to judge folk but no one knows everyone’s circumstances.

[Just Alf]

Plenty folk are exempt -

“Mental health:

you might feel trapped or claustrophobic, panicked or anxious and be exempt from wearing a face covering for these reasons”

Easy to judge folk but no one knows everyone’s circumstances.

I agree. I have a relative who has panic attacks with a mask on, she tries when getting on a bus but then has to take it off.

Not wearing one in those circumstances isn't side stepping the rules though? :confused:

[tamig]

Plenty folk are exempt -

“Mental health:

you might feel trapped or claustrophobic, panicked or anxious and be exempt from wearing a face covering for these reasons”

Easy to judge folk but no one knows everyone’s circumstances.
Correct. It’s strange that a lot of them seem to wear the same kind of clothes though. Grey baggy jogging pants being a common feature. Both male and female.

[blackpoolhibs]

Correct. It’s strange that a lot of them seem to wear the same kind of clothes though. Grey baggy jogging pants being a common feature. Both male and female.

Aye and smoke like a chimney and drink like a fish too.

[SideBurns]

As someone who's had both jabs, this idea of dividing the Hibs support into vaxxed & unvaxxed makes me very uneasy. There are enough polarising factors in society these days without creating another.

When we reach the stage of allowing full stadiums again, it should be because there's enough confidence that Covid no longer proves a significant threat that we don't have to worry about the person sitting next to us. Creating pariahs of people who - for whatever reason - haven't been vaccinated just feels wrong to me. When I'm back at Easter Road (and Robbie's Bar) I'll be too excited to bother about anything bar a nice pint of Guinness and 3 points for the Cabbage and Ribs.

[SChibs]

As someone who's had both jabs, this idea of dividing the Hibs support into vaxxed & unvaxxed makes me very uneasy. There are enough polarising factors in society these days without creating another.

When we reach the stage of allowing full stadiums again, it should be because there's enough confidence that Covid no longer proves a significant threat that we don't have to worry about the person sitting next to us. Creating pariahs of people who - for whatever reason - haven't been vaccinated just feels wrong to me. When I'm back at Easter Road (and Robbie's Bar) I'll be too excited to bother about anything bar a nice pint of Guinness and 3 points for the Cabbage and Ribs.

It doesn't even make sense. Vaccinated or not you can still pass on the virus. Whats the difference between being double jabbed or not jabbed at the football? As long as unvaxxed folks self isolate if they have symptoms they are no more dangerous to other than people who are vaxxed x2.

[Peevemor]

It doesn't even make sense. Vaccinated or not you can still pass on the virus. Whats the difference between being double jabbed or not jabbed at the football? As long as unvaxxed folks self isolate if they have symptoms they are no more dangerous to other than people who are vaxxed x2.

If you're vaccinated you have a much lower chance of catching the virus, meaning a much lower chance of needing to self isolate (in the hope that you haven't already infected others).

If you're vaccinated and have the virus, there's also a much lower chance that you'll transmit it to others.

This stuff isn't even up for debate.

[Pretty Boy]

The sad thing is that some people had the lanyard before covid and relied on them. Idiots using them as an excuse has ruined that for many. They were a godsend. Airport staff and crew were trained to look out for them now they couldnt possibly deal with everybody who wears one. They were often worn by children who couldnt cope with queues or with new things and needed a bit of support. Now harry doon the road wears one and nobody pays attention to them

That's the worst part of the whole thing.

The sunflower lanyard scheme was a great idea that has been hijacked by people who, to put it bluntly, are at it.

[ElginHibbie]

If you're vaccinated you have a much lower chance of catching the virus, meaning a much lower chance of needing to self isolate (in the hope that you haven't already infected others).

If you're vaccinated and have the virus, there's also a much lower chance that you'll transmit it to others.

This stuff isn't even up for debate.

:agree:

Also we're just supposed to trust that people who aren't getting a vaccine are still going to self isolate if they get symptoms?

Sure some people aren't getting due to genuine medical reasons, but a lot are just ignoring the science on vaccines so why should the rest of us believe they are going to trust the science on isolating?!

[blackpoolhibs]

That's the worst part of the whole thing.

The sunflower lanyard scheme was a great idea that has been hijacked by people who, to put it bluntly, are at it.

Exactly, i know there is a small percentage who have trouble with wearing masks, but the vast majority of those who downloaded that pass are as you say at it, the vast majority.

[Bristolhibby]

Not for me, you only need to see all those folk who had those exemptions around their necks in shops/pubs/supermarkets when it's clear as the nose on your face there was nothing wrong with them. I even watched them sharing it in a pub, a pub with karaoke on when they were all up singing their heads off, but couldn't wear a mask to go to the toilet because they had breathing problems.

My arse, it's too open for abuse, if you are that ill you cant wear a mask, and have the vaccine, then you are too ill to go to the football.

Make it a doctor backed up certificate. This is part of the NHS app at the end of the day.

Should filter out many of the chancers.

J

[Bristolhibby]

I agree. I have a relative who has panic attacks with a mask on, she tries when getting on a bus but then has to take it off.

Not wearing one in those circumstances isn't side stepping the rules though? :confused:

I would really hope those people would be first on the list to get two vaccines.

The worst are the exempt who are also antivaxxers.

J

[SChibs]

If you're vaccinated you have a much lower chance of catching the virus, meaning a much lower chance of needing to self isolate (in the hope that you haven't already infected others).

If you're vaccinated and have the virus, there's also a much lower chance that you'll transmit it to others.

This stuff isn't even up for debate.

Do you have a source for this? My colleague and I were looking for reliable studies earlier but we couldn't find anything. The info suggested unvaxed asymptomatic people passed it on the same as vaxed asymptomatic. Theres an overall less chance of transmission because as a whole people have less symptoms but there's not much evidence to suggest there's a difference between unvaxed and vaxed asymptomatics

[Mon Dieu4]

Do you have a source for this? My colleague and I were looking for reliable studies earlier but we couldn't find anything. The info suggested unvaxed asymptomatic people passed it on the same as vaxed asymptomatic. Theres an overall less chance of transmission because as a whole people have less symptoms but there's not much evidence to suggest there's a difference between unvaxed and vaxed asymptomatics

The Scottish Government did a study within the NHS at the start of the year and found that vaccinated workers were less likely to pass on Covid to their families, don't have a link but it's been mentioned on several occasions in the First Ministers briefing

[Peevemor]

Do you have a source for this? My colleague and I were looking for reliable studies earlier but we couldn't find anything. The info suggested unvaxed asymptomatic people passed it on the same as vaxed asymptomatic. Theres an overall less chance of transmission because as a whole people have less symptoms but there's not much evidence to suggest there's a difference between unvaxed and vaxed asymptomatics


"A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

"Two studies1,2 from Israel, posted as preprints on 16 July, find that two doses of the vaccine made by pharmaceutical company Pfizer, based in New York City, and biotechnology company BioNTech, based in Mainz, Germany, are 81% effective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections. And vaccinated people who do get infected are up to 78% less likely to spread the virus to household members than are unvaccinated people. Overall, this adds up to very high protection against transmission, say researchers."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02054-z

I typed the words "covid vaccinated transmission" into google and there's loads of stuff.

[rotherhamrob]

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.

I'd say everyone I know is doing it for their own reasons,some because they're worried about covid,some just to go on holiday,some as they think they might need them for uni, some to attend events.
Not one person I know has said they're taking it for the greater good.

[rotherhamrob]

If you're vaccinated you have a much lower chance of catching the virus, meaning a much lower chance of needing to self isolate (in the hope that you haven't already infected others).

If you're vaccinated and have the virus, there's also a much lower chance that you'll transmit it to others.

This stuff isn't even up for debate.
So what's the difference between an unvaxed asymptomatic who tests positive and a vaxed asymptomatics individual who tests positive?
Asymptomatic spread is either a thing or it isn't, can't apply to one and not the other.

[hibee316]

I'd say everyone I know is doing it for their own reasons,some because they're worried about covid,some just to go on holiday,some as they think they might need them for uni, some to attend events.
Not one person I know has said they're taking it for the greater good.

Have they said that they don't care about the greater good though?
Would they not get it if it had no benefits for themselves?

[CockneyRebel]

So what's the difference between an unvaxed asymptomatic who tests positive and a vaxed asymptomatics individual who tests positive?
Asymptomatic spread is either a thing or it isn't, can't apply to one and not the other.


Read post 205.

[Peevemor]

Have they said that they don't care about the greater good though?
Would they not get it if it had no benefits for themselves?

Is this in your criteria for deciding whether or not they're "erseh0les"?

[Peevemor]

So what's the difference between an unvaxed asymptomatic who tests positive and a vaxed asymptomatics individual who tests positive?
Asymptomatic spread is either a thing or it isn't, can't apply to one and not the other.

I don't think whether there are symptoms is the issue. If you're vaccinated but infected, the chances are that you'll have less virus molecules in your body than somebody who isn't vaccinated, thus you'll have less to transmit.

I'm not a scientist but I think that's how it works.

[CockneyRebel]

Have they said that they don't care about the greater good though?
Would they not get it if it had no benefits for themselves?


Whatever the reason for getting the vax it lowers the chances of spreading infection and the chances of a "heavy" infection so the result is the same - the greater good is served whether intentional or not. After everything that has been said/published I don't see how anyone can question the benefits of the vaccinations either to oneself or for the greater good.

The vaccinations may not be perfect but any percentage of immunity is better than nil percentage.

[hibee316]

Is this in your criteria for deciding whether or not they're "erseh0les"?

I've obviously upset you and I apologised for using that word.

My point remains if you have no concern about the greater good, then you are, by definition, selfish.

I also said there would probably be more to it, as you can't get your full point across via a message board.

I'm sure most folk who aren't keen on the vaccination have concerns about what they think it might do to them. Or have other concerns.

[Peevemor]

I've obviously upset you and I apologised for using that word.

My point remains if you have no concern about the greater good, then you are, by definition, selfish.

I also said there would probably be more to it, as you can't get your full point across via a message board.

I'm sure most folk who aren't keen on the vaccination have concerns about what they think it might do to them. Or have other concerns.

Where did I say that?

You didn't apologise for calling me selfish - nor my friends.

[hibee316]

Where did I say that?

You didn't apologise for calling me selfish - nor my friends.

Okay. You have a nice day.

[SChibs]

"A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

"Two studies1,2 from Israel, posted as preprints on 16 July, find that two doses of the vaccine made by pharmaceutical company Pfizer, based in New York City, and biotechnology company BioNTech, based in Mainz, Germany, are 81% effective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections. And vaccinated people who do get infected are up to 78% less likely to spread the virus to household members than are unvaccinated people. Overall, this adds up to very high protection against transmission, say researchers."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02054-z

I typed the words "covid vaccinated transmission" into google and there's loads of stuff.

We certainly found studies but they generally didn't differentiate whether or not the subjects of the study were symptomatic or asymptomatic. Of course if the vaccine reduces symptoms it will reduce spread.


My point was more regarding whether or not there's a difference in spread with vaxed vs unvaxed asymptomatics. The studies don't make this clear. The reason I brought it up was because I don't think for the football or nightclubs it makes a difference whether not you are vaxed if you can provide a negative test.

[Ronniekirk]

Being double vaccinated means I'm unlikely to get ill if I catch the virus, chances are I'd be symptom free. So if I went to the football and sat with someone else who is double vaxed and gave it to them they would more than likely be okay too. The chances of all of that happening must be so slim anyway and the consequences of it in the event it did happen are pretty minor. We take risks with our health every day. We cant live in a sterile bubble, our immune systems wont cope for a start.

People.who feel vulnerable or are vulnerable have to make their own life assessments, like we did before covid. I was a nurse with a low immune system due to drugs I take. I knew the risks and the only thing I requested was not to be put in a norovirus ward.

Personally I'd keep the masks indoors for a few more weeks, end sept/oct til everybody's had the chance to be double vaxed then get rid and make them personal choice. Everything else goes back to normal in aug apart from foreign travel which would have to be dependant on your destination or people arriving here being vaccinated.

Obviously there's no acceptable death rate, that wasnt a fair question but whats an acceptable death rate for untreated cancer or how many suicides is acceptable . None is the answer, it's all about balance. People die from all sorts, outbreaks of meningitis, norovirus can be a killer and obviously the flu. Are we going to live in a society that lockdown for everything. Even chicken pox can kill. All we can do is have the vaccine and get on with our lives

Boris has put a figure on an acceptable death rate from his perspective indicating it might go to between a hundred and 200 a day and saying that’s the price we might have to pay when fully opening up society and restoring freedoms
It was 131 the other day
I assume his figures are worst case scenario and it won’t come to that but the idea we can have no deaths is not possible
People who have been double jabbed and get Covid could still die especially if older and underlying health issues
But most people I know now just want to get back to normal fir the rest of the summer on the assumption that winter and bad flu season could see some forms of restrictions brought back in
Nicola and Jason Leitch are both giving the message we need to continue relaxing restrictions and I expect this to continue with some mitigating factors left in place a bit longer



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rotherhamrob]

I don't think whether there are symptoms is the issue. If you're vaccinated but infected, the chances are that you'll have less virus molecules in your body than somebody who isn't vaccinated, thus you'll have less to transmit.

I'm not a scientist but I think that's how it works.

And yet the cdc and fauci said yesterday that the viral load in the vaccinated can be as high as those not vaccinated.
Who knows?
Either way I think we're going to have to live with it pretty soon as it is endemic, which also means that like flu we'll have good and bad yrs.

[Peevemor]

We certainly found studies but they generally didn't differentiate whether or not the subjects of the study were symptomatic or asymptomatic. Of course if the vaccine reduces symptoms it will reduce spread.


My point was more regarding whether or not there's a difference in spread with vaxed vs unvaxed asymptomatics. The studies don't make this clear. The reason I brought it up was because I don't think for the football or nightclubs it makes a difference whether not you are vaxed if you can provide a negative test.

The first link that I posted included this

"COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness
Vaccine efficacy refers to how well a vaccine performs in a carefully controlled clinical trial, whereas effectiveness describes its performance in real-world observational studies. Evidence demonstrates that the authorized COVID-19 vaccines are both efficacious and effective against symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, including severe forms of the disease. In addition, a growing body of evidence suggests that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines also reduce asymptomatic infection and transmission. Substantial reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) will reduce overall levels of disease, and therefore, viral transmission in the United States. However, investigations are ongoing to assess further the risk of transmission from fully vaccinated persons with breakthrough infections."

See, it says "a growing body of evidence".

So there! :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

The first link that I posted included this

"COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness
Vaccine efficacy refers to how well a vaccine performs in a carefully controlled clinical trial, whereas effectiveness describes its performance in real-world observational studies. Evidence demonstrates that the authorized COVID-19 vaccines are both efficacious and effective against symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, including severe forms of the disease. In addition, a growing body of evidence suggests that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines also reduce asymptomatic infection and transmission. Substantial reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) will reduce overall levels of disease, and therefore, viral transmission in the United States. However, investigations are ongoing to assess further the risk of transmission from fully vaccinated persons with breakthrough infections."

See, it says "a growing body of evidence".

So there! :greengrin

Not arguing with the data, but none of it includes the AZ vaccine as far as I can tell.

[ABZHFC]

One indication of what the future may hold is that Scotland have released ticket details for three qualifiers this autumn, the first of which takes place on the 5th of September. It does seem as though they’re planning for a full crowd, which bodes well

[GreenCastle]

Social distancing is due to end august 9th in Scotland so that also means queues and gaps in seating arrangements won’t matter - you can also mingle at bars etc.

[LancsHibs]

One indication of what the future may hold is that Scotland have released ticket details for three qualifiers this autumn, the first of which takes place on the 5th of September. It does seem as though they’re planning for a full crowd, which bodes well

Good, it’s time to get back to normal

[ABZHFC]

Social distancing is due to end august 9th in Scotland so that also means queues and gaps in seating arrangements won’t matter - you can also mingle at bars etc.

Fingers crossed pal, think it's Tuesday it gets announced for definite. I just pray it's a complete return to normal, no halfway house stuff. Would be absolutely buzzing to be walking down Easter Road on Sunday the 15th for Kilmarnock at home in front of a (hopefully) full as possible crowd

[ABZHFC]

Good, it’s time to get back to normal

:agree::agree::agree:

The SFA (in their rare wisdom) have even set the prices pretty reasonable for the Moldova qualifier at Hampden in September - £20 for an adult ticket and £5 for juniors/seniors!

[SChibs]

The first link that I posted included this

"COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness
Vaccine efficacy refers to how well a vaccine performs in a carefully controlled clinical trial, whereas effectiveness describes its performance in real-world observational studies. Evidence demonstrates that the authorized COVID-19 vaccines are both efficacious and effective against symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, including severe forms of the disease. In addition, a growing body of evidence suggests that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines also reduce asymptomatic infection and transmission. Substantial reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) will reduce overall levels of disease, and therefore, viral transmission in the United States. However, investigations are ongoing to assess further the risk of transmission from fully vaccinated persons with breakthrough infections."

See, it says "a growing body of evidence".

So there! :greengrin

Fair play. The vast majority of people don't normally have evidence on hand to back up their opinion. You do. I've seen sources claim both sides so it's hard to make form a concrete decision either way.

[Peevemor]

Fair play. The vast majority of people don't normally have evidence on hand to back up their opinion. You do. I've seen sources claim both sides so it's hard to make form a concrete decision either way.

I'm in no way an expert (or even at all well informed) on this stuff, but there are certain points I'll absorb if I'm comfortable with the source, although in this case I had to search for something to back up what I heard.

In any case there seems to me that the way out of this thing is vaccination and, in the meantime, a gradual easing of other measures but without going too mental too soon.

[Peevemor]

Not arguing with the data, but none of it includes the AZ vaccine as far as I can tell.

Huh - council vaccine! I'm only fussed about expensive ones.

[SChibs]

I'm in no way an expert (or even at all well informed) on this stuff, but there are certain points I'll absorb if I'm comfortable with the source, although in this case I had to search for something to back up what I heard.

In any case there seems to me that the way out of this thing is vaccination and, in the meantime, a gradual easing of other measures but without going too mental too soon.

I think a big part of the problem is there is no right way to do it. Either way people will die so we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Also everyone is comfortable with a different level of risk but nobody can be sure how exactly the risks and hazards will pan out

[SteveHFC]

Fingers crossed pal, think it's Tuesday it gets announced for definite. I just pray it's a complete return to normal, no halfway house stuff. Would be absolutely buzzing to be walking down Easter Road on Sunday the 15th for Kilmarnock at home in front of a (hopefully) full as possible crowd

Bit nervous for Tuesday’s announcement myself but I think we will see a full (hopefully) crowd for the Killie cup game at home.

[Moulin Yarns]

Huh - council vaccine! I'm only fussed about expensive ones.

Maybe so, but a lot of people had 2 doses of AZ, myself included. 😉

[Jay]

Huh - council vaccine! I'm only fussed about expensive ones.

500,000,000 of us are just grateful

University of Oxford
@UniofOxford
·
NEW: #OxfordVaccine reaches 1,000,000,000 doses released

We're delighted to announce our vaccine has reached a significant milestone of one billion doses.

We thank
@AstraZeneca
for manufacturing and distributing our life-saving vaccine at cost.