Croatia v Scotland Tuesday 22nd June 2021

[Scorrie]

Need to change this now. Clark can’t be too loyal

[CloudSquall]

No doubt Clarke will wait until 88 minutes and then maybe, just maybe, consider that yet again Dykes isn't going to get a goal.

[Sylar]

Needs to change it now. Not in ten minutes. Now!!!

[Iain G]

Needed to change the shape and close them down in midfield

[Moulin Yarns]

30 minutes, Clarke has to throw caution to the wind and attack

[Pretty Boy]

May as well have a go now.

Getting caught on the break and losing 4-1 and losing 2-1 has the same outcome.

[ancient hibee]

Change it now.

[Since452]

May as well get Rab C on

[Hibrandenburg]

How much space are we giving them in and around our box?

[Jones28]

No option but to go for it now. McKenna for Fraser, Dykes for Nisbet and go 4-3-3.

[Sylar]

If he doesn’t change it and have a go, Clarke can **** off at full time.

[J-C]

Being overrun in middle, what change would we make that is positive in shoring up the middle while also making us more effective in the final 3rd

Change in personnel, Armstrong looks lost and McGregor done nothing apart from the goal. Shift McTominnay to holding midfield.

Goal by Croatia ad Modric, passed it around us and scored a beauty, we've allowed them too much space, a case of getting up for the one game against England and not for others, these players cannot play to those levels regularly and the reason we barely qualify most years.

[madhatter]

This top 2 hasn't worked in this game and should've been changed. Neither Adams or Dykes have done much and Armstrong should've been off ages ago.

[blackpoolhibs]

Clarke is an erse, absolutely toying with us for 60 minutes and he does **** all about it. :clown:

[Calidad]

Why is every bloody Scotland manager so reactive? It’s been clear all half we needed to change it up. We’ve been sitting deeper and deeper.

Armstrong has been crap. And what the hell is Dykes still doing on the pitch? Done absolutely nothing in 2.5 games now.

[Jones28]

O’Donnells inability to beat a man is so bad. He doesn’t even try.

[Jim44]

Too easy for them. We don’t have the class to compete well at this level of the competition or beyond. No glorious failure ...... just failure, I’m afraid. SC doing nothing to change it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Dykes and Armstrong are already down on the team sheet for our next competitive game

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Get Nesbit on. We’re not gonnae learn much persisting with this front 2.

[Magpie]

Luka Modric running the show at 35, world class.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Armstrong subbed wtf's going on stevie

[CloudSquall]

Hopefully by the time they get back to Glasgow Clarke will have considered making a change.

[Hibrandenburg]

The ref is an arse.

[blackpoolhibs]

Luka Modric running the show at 35, world class.

Jarko Wiss could do the same with the time and space we are giving him.:rolleyes:

[Lago]

The fact is the best team is in the lead.

[007]

Let the time wasting begin.

[Sylar]

This ref is attrocious and definitely not helping!

[Jones28]

Here comes a Hun, just to rub it in.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Armstrong subbed wtf's going on stevie

Armstrong has been murder.

[Calidad]

Bring on Fraser who has done nothing all season.

Leave Nisbet and Turnbull who have scored goals this season on the bench.

[madhatter]

O’Donnells inability to beat a man is so bad. He doesn’t even try.

He's not good enough for this level. Looks as likely to fall over the ball as he is to control it. Has quite a good cross on him but beyond that he's very very average.

I would have played Patterson.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Armstrong has been murder.


i know, i was being sarcastic :greengrin he should have been subbed at HT

[GlesgaeHibby]

i know, i was being sarcastic :greengrin he should have been subbed at HT

Ah.. a whoosh there!

[Heisenberg]

Dykes ffs, useless with the ball at his feet

[Jones28]

Bring on Fraser who has done nothing all season.

Leave Nisbet and Turnbull who have scored goals this season on the bench.

You’re forgetting that playing in the EPL adds 30% more footballing ability, just because.

[007]

Get Dykes off.

[Jones28]

Dykes is done man, get him off.

[Iain G]

Need Nisbet on now

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Dykes has ran his race.

[Andy74]

We lose the ball every time Dykes gets the ball at his feet. Still on though.

[Hibs90]

Dykes should never play for Scotland again. He’s woeful.

[J-C]

McGinn been class tonight, wins the ball, harasses and drives forward with the ball at every opportunity, the only one who looks up for this.

[Pretty Boy]

Dykes is one of those strikers who moves after the ball has moved. The best strikers, be they poachers, target men, link up players or whatever have that instinct to be one step ahead of the play. He just isn't, he's flat footed and reacts a second or 2 too late. At this level 1 or 2 seconds is an eternity.

[Jones28]

Dykes should never play for Scotland again. He’s woeful.

Easy, he does the job he’s asked to do very well.

[Mon Dieu4]

Getting beat and the midfield is still sitting off

[Coco Bryce]

Easy, he does the job he’s asked to do very well.

He's way out his depth.

His job is to score goals

[Just_Jimmy]

dykes is woeful. his second touch if a tackle every time. it's embarrassing

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[007]

Probably no point bringing on Nisbet now. Not enough time for him to have enough of an affect on the game.

[blackpoolhibs]

Getting beat and the midfield is still sitting off

They are outnumbered, 76 minutes in and still the manager cant see it? :confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

Easy, he does the job he’s asked to do very well.

I remember at school the game was called statues 😉

[Aldo]

2-1 down, 75 mins in and only 1 attacking change


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I’m sure Nesbit will get 4 mins to see what he can do.

[cabbageandribs1875]

easy peasy

[007]

That'll be that then.

[Hibs Class]

Too easy.

[Sir David Gray]

3-1 night night.

[Coco Bryce]

Worst defending you'll see all tournament.

Utter pish.

[Andy74]

Awful.

[Scorrie]

Ach well ...nobody on the posts again

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Game over.

[Pretty Boy]

Game, set, match.

No doubt we'll see subs now. 25 minutes too late.

[SJNB Hibby]

Well at least this time its failure, not glorious failure

[cabbageandribs1875]

will you make a freakin sub now clarke, *one damn sub with 76 mins played wtf is wrong with clarke






not including forced sub

[Joe6-2]

Absolute sh**

[J-C]

Schoolboy defending once more, Clarke has to take the blame for not changing things when they weren't working.

[Hiber-nation]

Shaking my head at Clarke tonight. No idea how Armstrong is a replacement for Gilmour and why he hasn't made more subs when half of them look knackered is beyond me.

[blaikie]

Another glorious failure to add to the list.

[Magpie]

All bark no bite.

[Just_Jimmy]

maybe Clarke should bring on the plastic pitch for someone?

he's absolutely rotten.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[SteveHFC]

Game over

[Hibrandenburg]

****ing woeful

[Jones28]

He's way out his depth.

His job is to score goals

His job is to win headers, unless we’re watching different games it seems pretty obvious to me what he’s being asked to do.

[CloudSquall]

Easy, he does the job he’s asked to do very well.

"Dykes, if you can play upfront and avoid scoring that would be great, cheers!"

[Sylar]

Clarke to ****, now. A tactically naive, dour and passive ******* who’s holding a decent squad back.

[Hibrandenburg]

Another glorious failure to add to the list.

No glory in this display, just woeful.

[madhatter]

Any subs Stevie?

[Iain G]

Can we offer Souness the gig?

[Pretty Boy]

It's probably worthy of consideration as to why we are technically so far behind Croatia.

It's understandable why we are behind huge populations like France, Italy and Germany but we are getting the run around of a team representing a country of comparable size.

Simialr to the Czech game you can't fault the effort, we work hard, we try and we run about a lot but we are absolutely miles behind this side in terms of quality.

[The_Exile]

Croatia have got massive threat upfront, we don't. That's been the difference tonight.

[Jones28]

"Dykes, if you can play upfront and avoid scoring that would be great, cheers!"

He’s playing as a target man at an international championship. He isn’t going to score goals.

Here comes Nisbet.

[Coco Bryce]

His job is to win headers, unless we’re watching different games it seems pretty obvious to me what he’s being asked to do.

Aye OK. Just win headers.

Nae bother 😂 😂

[Hibs Class]

Nisbet to get 10 minutes

[JXM73]

It's a young squad, weve got 10 more years watching this pish...

[J-C]

Croatia 4 subs ad 3-1 up, Scotland getting beat and 1 sub WTF.

[Iain G]

He’s playing as a target man at an international championship. He isn’t going to score goals.

Here comes Nisbet.

10 mins for him to save the tournament 🙄

[Magpie]

It's probably worthy of consideration as to why we are technically so far behind Croatia.

It's understandable why we are behind huge populations like France, Italy and Germany but we are getting the run around of a team representing a country of comparable size.

Simialr to the Czech game you can't fault the effort, we work hard, we try and we run about a lot but we are absolutely miles behind this side in terms of quality.

Modric been the difference for me, world class player, something Scotland lack in the final third.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Clarke is a dick!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Making the changes we needed at two one down.

[Hibbyradge]

Dykes has ran his race.

I didn't see that happen.

[Since90+2]

Clarke to ****, now. A tactically naive, dour and passive ******* who’s holding a decent squad back.

Croatia are a far better side than we are. As are England who we done well against.

The only 45 minutes we have underperformed relative to our ability is the first half against Czech Republic.

[Ryan91]

Making the changes we needed at two one down.

Too scared to try and roll the dice

[J-C]

His job is to win headers, unless we’re watching different games it seems pretty obvious to me what he’s being asked to do.


And it's not working so why are we persisting with it?

[blackpoolhibs]

Croatia are a quality side, we can all see that, but we've given them all the space in the world from the start, especially in midfield, and they have controlled the game from there.

[007]

Hope Nesbit gets one and shows he should have been brought on sooner.

[Heisenberg]

Dykes stays on 😂

[CMurdoch]

Afraid the artists have made us look like hammer throwers all night

[Iain G]

Croatia are a quality side, we can all see that, but we've given them all the space in the world from the start, especially in midfield, and they have controlled the game from there.

We have the legs and energy in midfield to close them down if we had set it up right

[Jones28]

Aye OK. Just win headers.

Nae bother 😂 😂

Good talk, well done.

[NC1875]

We don’t have even above average strikers. That’s the problem.

The young guys should have played more of a part.

[cabbageandribs1875]

nisbet gets his 7 mins

[Green Reaper]

Outclassed, simple as

[J-C]

Nisbet for Adams WTF, how on earth is Dykes still on?

[bringbackbenny]

Dykes stays on 😂

I can't fathom that, bizarre to a ridiculous level.

[Jones28]

And it's not working so why are we persisting with it?

You have to ask the ****ing manager eh?

[Coco Bryce]

Dykes must have photos of Clarke with animals.

[MWHIBBIES]

Is anyone surprised by this, though? They are significantly better than Scotland. Better goalie, defenders, midfielders and forwards. No one wants them in the last 16 IMO. A very good, experienced side.

[scottish_sleepy]

Is he effing stupid. Adams has been miles better than Dykes yet he comes off.

[Jones28]

The **** does Dykes stay on man 😂

[Andy74]

He’s playing as a target man at an international championship. He isn’t going to score goals.

Here comes Nisbet.

Interesting. International strikers are just told to head the ball? Never mind trying to score or trying to hold the ball up at your feet, just run around and head the ball?

If that’s what he’s been told then fair play, he’s carried that out.

[Hiber-nation]

To try to win that game we had to take O'Donnell off earlier. Clarke did nothing. Just waited then the game was gone. So disappointing he didn't go for it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Dykes has something on clarke


so does Armstrong










i'm sure of it :)

[EdinMike]

If only we had 10 McGinns and a taller McGinn in goals we’d be world beaters !

[Jim44]

Clarke doesn’t have a clue. He gets far too much credit.

[Jones28]

Watching the way Denmark set about the Russians last night really gave me hope. Jeezo

[Since90+2]

Let's be honest makes no difference if he takes Adams or Dykes off at this stage.

[blackpoolhibs]

We have the legs and energy in midfield to close them down if we had set it up right
:agree:

Clarke has had a nightmare, that set up has definitely contributed to this result, and our substitutions have been shocking.:rolleyes:

[Hiber-nation]

Morocco all over again.

[JeMeSouviens]

Watching the way Denmark set about the Russians last night really gave me hope. Jeezo

Croatia are a good cut above Russia and Denmark a good cut above us.

[Lago]

Nisbet for Adams WTF, how on earth is Dykes still on?
Baffling just baffling

[hhibs]

What an arse Clarke is, forwards who cannot hit a barn door and Nisbet put on with 6 mins to go ,again,absolute bollocks!

[Moulin Yarns]

Is anyone surprised by this, though? They are significantly better than Scotland. Better goalie, defenders, midfielders and forwards. No one wants them in the last 16 IMO. A very good, experienced side.

And I'll say it again, 30 yes 30 places above Scotland in the fifa rankings

[Mon Dieu4]

The England game was a great result but think that was more on passion and determination, the other two games have been pretty rank rotten

[Just_Jimmy]

:agree:

Clarke has had a nightmare, that set up has definitely contributed to this result, and our substitutions have been shocking.:rolleyes:absolutely. he's cost us a chance of anything from this. we may well still have lost but he's taken away any chance.

let's be honest, sneaking in the back door and solid draw to England has papered over the fact we've actually been crap since we qualified and we're that great even before.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

We really blew it in the 1st game. That was the must win and deep down we all knew it. Taking 4 points from England and Croatia was always going to be a huge ask.

[flash]

Yet another manager crippled by indecision and caution.

Of course Croatia are far superior to us but things needed changing far earlier than they were.

[Colr]

Nisbet to get 10 minutes

Bit late to make a change

[Andy74]

absolutely. he's cost us a chance of anything from this. we may well still have lost but he's taken away any chance.

let's be honest, sneaking in the back door and solid draw to England has papered over the fact we've actually been crap since we qualified and we're that great even before.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Yep.

[Moulin Yarns]

If only we had 10 McGinns and a taller McGinn in goals we’d be world beaters !

We also need a tall mcginn as striker otherwise there is nobody to head the ball 😉

[madhatter]

It's probably worthy of consideration as to why we are technically so far behind Croatia.

It's understandable why we are behind huge populations like France, Italy and Germany but we are getting the run around of a team representing a country of comparable size.

Simialr to the Czech game you can't fault the effort, we work hard, we try and we run about a lot but we are absolutely miles behind this side in terms of quality.

Comes down to coaching and culture. Crunching tackles, running and winning headers is encouraged rather than improving ball control.

I even genuinely struggle to list the number of Hibs players that have improved technically. They become better players but generally still keep their poor ball control.

Too scared to try skills as well.

Scotland need to forget about qualifying for tournaments. Focus on developing better footballers first.

[MWHIBBIES]

And I'll say it again, 30 yes 30 places above Scotland in the fifa rankings

Exactly. Modric is better than any player Scotland have had in my lifetime. Perisic an Inter Milan starter, so is Brozovic. A great young goalie. CL winners in Lovren, Kovacic. 20 goals in the Bundesliga for Kramaric.

Miles ahead of Scotland. We done well to get a goal.

[Iain G]

Why didn't we start Patterson?

[Moulin Yarns]

Hadn't realised that Croatia are 2nd in the group.

[Iain G]

And great positioning by Nisbet at that corner, pulled to the back post anticipating the cross coming all the way to him til the lump McKenna got in the way

[cabbageandribs1875]

awk at least we lasted longer than North Macedonia and got more points than them and Turkey






well done the fans btw

[Pretty Boy]

And I'll say it again, 30 yes 30 places above Scotland in the fifa rankings

Why though?

It's an indisputable fact that Croatia are a better side than us but they really shouldn't be. They aren't choosing from a vast pool of players in the way Belgium or England or the traditionally successful nations are.

Between 1998 and 2021 they have finished 3rd in a WC, runners up in a WC and qualified for all but 1 tournament. We have managed 2 goals and 2 points at major tournaments in the same time period.

There shouldn't be some shrugging acceptance of Croatia's superiority, there should be a public inquiry.

[Sir David Gray]

Ah well back to supporting Team ABE.

[Iain G]

Well I can have my evenings back again I guess

[Since452]

How did England get to play three games at Wembley?

[Moulin Yarns]

Why though?

It's an indisputable fact that Croatia are a better side than us but they really shouldn't be. They aren't choosing from a vast pool of players in the way Belgium or England or the traditionally successful nations are.

Between 1998 and 2021 they have finished 3rd in a WC, runners up in a WC and qualified for all but 1 tournament. We have managed 2 goals and 2 points at major tournaments in the same time period.

There shouldn't be some shrugging acceptance of Croatia's superiority, there should be a public inquiry.

They had a civil war. Maybe that gave them the fight.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Nothing even close to Modric in our team

[Jones28]

Why though?

It's an indisputable fact that Croatia are a better side than us but they really shouldn't be. They aren't choosing from a vast pool of players in the way Belgium or England or the traditionally successful nations are.

Between 1998 and 2021 they have finished 3rd in a WC, runners up in a WC and qualified for all but 1 tournament. We have managed 2 goals and 2 points at major tournaments in the same time period.

There shouldn't be some shrugging acceptance of Croatia's superiority, there should be a public inquiry.

Do they have much competition from other sports over there? We’ve got a lot of young people who do such a variety of different sports from rugby to racquet sports to swimming etc. They maybe have a larger pool of people.

[BroxburnHibee]

Czech game was the key game. Pity the players didn't realise it.

[Pretty Boy]

They had a civil war. Maybe that gave them the fight.

We've got plenty fight.

It's technical ability we lack.

[Hibs Class]

Czech game was the key game. Pity the players didn't realise it.

Or the manager.

[MWHIBBIES]

How did England get to play three games at Wembley?

Same reason Italy had 3 in Roma, Holland 3 in Amsterdam, Germany 3 in Munich, Denmark 3 in Denmark etc. Its the way this tournament is set up.

Its a big rigged in favour of the big sides.

[Lago]

Baffling just baffling


How did England get to play three games at Wembley?
Does it matter, we played 2 at Hampden and got well beaten in both of them

[Moulin Yarns]

We've got plenty fight.

It's technical ability we lack.

Sorry I missed the wink emoji.

[CmoantheHibs]

Beaten by a very good team. Thought we played well first half but second half they went up the gears.

[JeMeSouviens]

Do they have much competition from other sports over there? We’ve got a lot of young people who do such a variety of different sports from rugby to racquet sports to swimming etc. They maybe have a larger pool of people.

Apart from the tiny segment of the population that’s very posh, football gets the pick of Scotland’s sporting talent.

[Iain G]

We've got plenty fight.

It's technical ability we lack.

And a brave manager. Should have made positive changes to influence the game before they got their second when it was clear they were getting a lot of ball in midfield and creating good chances

[Pretty Boy]

Do they have much competition from other sports over there? We’ve got a lot of young people who do such a variety of different sports from rugby to racquet sports to swimming etc. They maybe have a larger pool of people.

Maybe they don't have PlayStations or YouTube there. That's usually the easy answer we come up with when we have these periodic moments of gazing into the mirror.

[Jim44]

Borefest ……. probably as good as it gets for us tho’.

[Andy74]

We've got plenty fight.

It's technical ability we lack.

It’s sunny most the time. Active lifestyle, fresh natural food.

We have to work hard to get kids on pitches for most of the year and eating the right stuff.

Must make a difference.

[Since452]

Same reason Italy had 3 in Roma, Holland 3 in Amsterdam, Germany 3 in Munich, Denmark 3 in Denmark etc. Its the way this tournament is set up.

Its a big rigged in favour of the big sides.

Good old UEFA

[JeMeSouviens]

Beaten by a very good team. Thought we played well first half but second half they went up the gears.

Yep, just much better players overall.

[Andy74]

Same reason Italy had 3 in Roma, Holland 3 in Amsterdam, Germany 3 in Munich, Denmark 3 in Denmark etc. Its the way this tournament is set up.

Its a big rigged in favour of the big sides.

We got 2 home games in a major tournament and lost them both, scoring 1 and losing 5.

[Jones28]

Maybe they don't have PlayStations or YouTube there. That's usually the easy answer we come up with when we have these periodic moments of gazing into the mirror.

Maybe they don’t have gambling and fast food adverts book-ending coverage of international football?

[madhatter]

Why though?

It's an indisputable fact that Croatia are a better side than us but they really shouldn't be. They aren't choosing from a vast pool of players in the way Belgium or England or the traditionally successful nations are.

Between 1998 and 2021 they have finished 3rd in a WC, runners up in a WC and qualified for all but 1 tournament. We have managed 2 goals and 2 points at major tournaments in the same time period.

There shouldn't be some shrugging acceptance of Croatia's superiority, there should be a public inquiry.

Think Gauld is only Scottish player I could see score Modric's goal 7/10 and he doesn't get called up. Skillful players don't get called up. They might eventually but they'll be pretty much claiming their pension.

Skilful players will likely be on the waste bin of Scottish football. Seen it myself when I was a youngster, people who got picked up by pro clubs tended to be the physically more able in their age groups. Two footed player with good ball control ends up getting a normal job away from football or ends up like Gauld.

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s sunny most the time. Active lifestyle, fresh natural food.

We have to work hard to get kids on pitches for most of the year and eating the right stuff.

Must make a difference.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Croatian_sportspeople

[flash]

And a brave manager. Should have made positive changes to influence the game before they got their second when it was clear they were getting a lot of ball in midfield and creating good chances

He should have changed things earlier but we would have been chasing shadows regardless.
They are simply far too good for us.

[Iain G]

Souness worked out what was needed to happen that second half! Thinks Dykes makes us look like a team from the last century!

[HoboHarry]

We've got plenty fight.

It's technical ability we lack.
Exactly - we can't retain possession, until we learn that it will always end badly for us..

[J-C]

Yes Croatia are higher up the rankings but so are England and we gave them a hell of a game, why can we only get up for just that one game? Souness spot on here by saying the lump up to Dykes is football from the past.

[Hibs Class]

We came into the tournament as the third lowest rated team, and it looks like only two teams will have earned fewer points than us, so we’ve punched our weight. But like all the finals I’ve seen us in since 1974, another case of what might have been if we’d been a bit less cautious.

[HoboHarry]

Yes Croatia are higher up the rankings but so are England and we gave them a hell of a game, why can we only get up for just that one game? Souness spot on here by saying the lump up to Dykes is football from the past.
It was a thing of the past 10 years ago but that's where we still are.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Nothing even close to Modric in our team

Messi and Ronaldo have won 11 out of the last 12 Ballon d'Or's, the other was won by Modric. As a midfielder, Perisic has scored as many international goals as Scotland's all time top goalscorers. They are clearly several classes above us.

[Bobo]

Pretty predictable outcome sadly.

We had very little threat in the final 3rd for the third game in a row as Adams offered the square root of f-all. How he got so much game time is rediculous.

Defensively we we're overly slow to react and slack picking up and marking in and around our 18 yard box and in general were technically inferior throughout. Overall we were never really at the races and our lack of any scoring threat has cost us dearly throughout the tournament.

[Iain G]

It's a shame Souness and Collins aren't using their clear understanding and intelligence in improving Scottish football

[ancient hibee]

When they crossed a ball they picked someone out.Our crosses were hit and hope.No excuse for that.

[MWHIBBIES]

We got 2 home games in a major tournament and lost them both, scoring 1 and losing 5.

Yep. Not much you say. While it does favour the big teams, it favoured Scotland as well and we made a **** of it.

[Mon Dieu4]

Messi and Ronaldo have won 11 out of the last 12 Ballon d'Or's, the other was won by Modric. As a midfielder, Perisic has scored as many international goals as Scotland's all time top goalscorers. They are clearly several classes above us.

That's the sixth time we've played them and the first time they've won, they didn't suddenly get better

[weecounty hibby]

They are a good side. Ranked 14th in the world I think, and it showed. We did OK but we ****ed it with the loss in the first game. We had more of a chance of beating the Czechs than Croatia.

[Hiber-nation]

OK Croatia have quality but why the hell start Armstrong replacing Gilmour, 2 totally different players. We basically gave up the midfield, McTominay had to start in there.

He had to make subs after 70 mins, we were toiling. We were still sitting far too deep. We kept launching it long to Dykes and nobody could get up there to support him, cannot believe he didn't make 2 more subs then when we needed 2 goals.

2 home games and 2 defeats. Scored 1 conceded 5. That is a huge letdown.

[Just_Jimmy]

Scotland get pumped, major inquest, learn nothing and repeat.

it's groundhog Day.

we're a third world footballing nation. even our national stadium is duff.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[J-C]

It was a thing of the past 10 years ago but that's where we still are.

We have skilful players but manager after manager wants to play lumps up to big strikers, why? Looking at many of the teams in the tournament not play this way, all play on the deck and pass, look at our own club football, apart from the OF every other team pays ugly football, even Hibs a lot of the time it's the big diagonal lump up to Doidge or Nisbet instead of playing it on the deck more often. Only players we have that look comfortable with ball at their feet are the guys playing at the top level EPL but as soon as they get together with the squad it turns to the big lump.

[madhatter]

"Exciting watching Adams and Dykes play"? That's why Scottish football fails...

That should not be the view of that...hopeless and fruitless is what that partnership boils down to. No excitement unless we want to cheer players winning a header at the half way line.

[Moulin Yarns]

They are a good side. Ranked 14th in the world I think, and it showed. We did OK but we ****ed it with the loss in the first game. We had more of a chance of beating the Czechs than Croatia.

Absolutely

In our group

England 4th

Croatia 14th

Czech Republic 40th

Scotland 44th.


The best chance was to beat the Czech Republic and we failed.

[Moulin Yarns]

OK Croatia have quality but why the hell start Armstrong instead of Gilmour, 2 totally different players. We basically gave up the midfield, McTominay had to start in there.

He had to make subs after 70 mins, we were toiling. We were still sitting far too deep. We kept launching it long to Dykes and nobody could get up there to support him, cannot believe he didn't make 2 more subs then when we needed 2 goals.

2 home games and 2 defeats. Scored 1 conceded 5. That is a huge letdown.

Woosh!!!!

If Gilmour had been available then I'm sure he would have started, unfortunately....

[ekhibee]

I thought we played alright today, Modric is still an extremely good player but I do think we would have been much stronger if Gilmour was playing, particularly in terms of his breaking up play and taking Scotland forward, I don't believe Modric would have got nearly as much space to pass the ball around if Gilmour had been playing as well, but that's just my opinion. Not really bothered what clubs the other Croatian players play for, we've got players that play in the English Premiership which is as good a league as any. We're not quite there yet in terms of ability, but if Gilmour, and possibly Patterson and Turnbull are the sign of things to come, I'm quietly optimistic that we can learn from games like this and progress from it.

[Hiber-nation]

All the talk in the post match interviews is how proud we should be, how we should learn from this. Guff. We'll be eternal losers with that attitude.

[Hiber-nation]

Woosh!!!!

If Gilmour had been available then I'm sure he would have started, unfortunately....

Well I actually know what happened to Gilmour, I meant replacing him. Obviously :rolleyes:

I've even changed my post in case somebody else thinks I've been on the moon for the last 12 hours...

[hibIBZ]

Apart from the tiny segment of the population that’s very posh, football gets the pick of Scotland’s sporting talent.

I'm not sure that's the case any more. More and more it's the middle class that is playing the most sport, including football. The private schools in Edinburgh are improving every year at football, where it was always rugby.
For me there is a huge number of reasons for this, social issues, home set ups etc. Kids don't play as much now, they go to training, teams, after school clubs. Very few play outside after school. When it comes to clubs etc. It is often the case that it's middle class families that can afford to take part and have the willingness to drive kids around and take part in organising. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in poorer communities, but in my experience, there is less of it

[J-C]

Woosh!!!!

If Gilmour had been available then I'm sure he would have started, unfortunately....


I think he means why Armstrong for Gilmour as they are two different types of players, it's not like for like and the reason the midfield didn't work.

[madhatter]

All the talk in the post match interviews is how proud we should be, how we should learn from this. Guff. We'll be eternal losers with that attitude.

We are losers. We are just too proud to admit it.

Scotland need to forget about qualifying for a tournament and give more young players a chance. We won't. It'll be another desperate attempt to qualify followed by failures with journeyman.

[heretoday]

One world class player on the pitch and he won it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

we've got a hammering in Denmark to look forward to in september



early team news, Dykes and Armstrong start

[Hiber-nation]

I think he means why Armstrong for Gilmour as they are two different types of players, it's not like for like and the reason the midfield didn't work.

Yep, just not engaging brain before typing but thought it was obvious.

[EI255]

One world class player on the pitch and he won it.Yeah, but he was given 5 acres of space to get his shot away. Criminal defending.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[gbhibby]

McGregor and Armstrong were weak in midfield, at this level you need to press the ball better and move the ball better. McTominey should have been in the midfield. Still do not see what Dykes brings to the team. We need pace

[EI255]

we've got a hammering in Denmark to look forward to in september



early team news, Dykes and Armstrong startHopefully Dykes no more. But I doubt it

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[007]

It might have been better if we hadn't scored before half-time. Clarke might have made changes sooner.

[JohnM1875]

McGregor and Armstrong were weak in midfield, at this level you need to press the ball better and move the ball better. McTominey should have been in the midfield. Still do not see what Dykes brings to the team. We need pace

Armstrong should be nowhere near the national team again after that. So so bad.

Doesn't help when you start a left back and a centre mid in a three man defence.

McGinn had an absolute stinker as well! Could have easily had a few goals tonight.

Then waiting an eternity to make the subs. So disappointing.

[hibsbollah]

I'm not sure that's the case any more. More and more it's the middle class that is playing the most sport, including football. The private schools in Edinburgh are improving every year at football, where it was always rugby.
For me there is a huge number of reasons for this, social issues, home set ups etc. Kids don't play as much now, they go to training, teams, after school clubs. Very few play outside after school. When it comes to clubs etc. It is often the case that it's middle class families that can afford to take part and have the willingness to drive kids around and take part in organising. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in poorer communities, but in my experience, there is less of it

:agree: This is true. Kids football’s not cheap and involves having a car, making time around work. The investment in football cages in inner city London 10-15 years ago is a big reason why they got a generation of talent coming through, poor kids had somewhere to go and play for free.

[Smartie]

I think we’ve got significantly more quality than we’ve had for a very long time and we are going in the right direction. Any post-Mirren in the wake of us actually doing better than we’ve done for a while needs to be proportionate.

Scotland has a better reputation for producing managers than players of late but I was less than impressed with Clarke at the Euros. He bottled a few big calls regarding the home games and was rewarded when he was brave at Wembley.

I just have a horrible feeling that if he sticks around his mistakes will be repeated and will become a regular feature.

[LeithMike]

OK Croatia have quality but why the hell start Armstrong replacing Gilmour, 2 totally different players. We basically gave up the midfield, McTominay had to start in there.

He had to make subs after 70 mins, we were toiling. We were still sitting far too deep. We kept launching it long to Dykes and nobody could get up there to support him, cannot believe he didn't make 2 more subs then when we needed 2 goals.

2 home games and 2 defeats. Scored 1 conceded 5. That is a huge letdown.Agree with this. Armstrong would have been a better sub. Gives the ball away far too much when our possession was so scarce. I quite like McTominay in defence and thought Turnbull was worth a start.

You can see Dykes as a good club player in British football but looks a bit immobile for international football. He was grest in Serbia though. We have slim pickings up front though and the fact that we're having to go to Nisbet when he hasnt played a full match says a lot.



Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Hibs Class]

All the talk in the post match interviews is how proud we should be, how we should learn from this. Guff. We'll be eternal losers with that attitude.

:agree: Show me a proud loser and I’ll show you a loser.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

That's the sixth time we've played them and the first time they've won, they didn't suddenly get better

Scotland's record against them has been good, but I don't think you can say they've suddenly got better. They're first competition as an independent country was in 1996 and since then they've got to one World Cup Final, another Semi Final and 2 Euro quarter finals. For a country of only 4m they do seem to produce an incredibly high number of very good players.

[Iain G]

Agree with this. Armstrong would have been a better sub. Gives the ball away far too much when our possession was so scarce. I quite like McTominay in defence and thought Turnbull was worth a start.

You can see Dykes as a good club player in British football but looks a bit immobile for international football. He was grest in Serbia though. We have slim pickings up front though and the fact that we're having to go to Nisbet when he hasnt played a full match says a lot.



Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

At least Nisbet has strikers instincts! Dykes is so reactive and imobile and hardly won a header which is supposed to be his one good skill!

[Kato]

:agree: This is true. Kids football’s not cheap and involves having a car, making time around work. The investment in football cages in inner city London 10-15 years ago is a big reason why they got a generation of talent coming through, poor kids had somewhere to go and play for free.Municipal investment in Scottish football. Novel concept.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Jim44]

We probably got as far as we are capable of. I suppose it is better to be also-rans than never-ran at alls. I can’t think of anyone to replace SC who would do a better job and I reckon he’s there for the foreseeable future. I just wish he wasn’t so boring and took a few more chances to react to what he’s seeing in front of him.

[Smartie]

Armstrong should be nowhere near the national team again after that. So so bad.

Doesn't help when you start a left back and a centre mid in a three man defence.

McGinn had an absolute stinker as well! Could have easily had a few goals tonight.

Then waiting an eternity to make the subs. So disappointing.

I thought Armstrong was awful in his 2 starts.

We’re not short of options in that area and finding the right blend is the manager’s biggest challenge going forward.

[CMurdoch]

Chasing shadows in a comprehensive defeat tonight.
The positives from the tournament are Hanley and Gilmour. 2 more first picks.
Gilmour and McGregor were a nice midfield blend in the England game and that should be tried again.
Of the missing players we missed Ryan Jack most.
What we still need to find is a top striker.
Lastly, tonight we probably saw the changing of the guard at right back Patterson for O Donnell.

[Brightside]

I thought we were poor. All over the pitch. Maybe England just made us look good. Gilmour a huge lose. SOD back to being poor. No natural holding player. Finished last. As expected. We are miles off it at this level.

[Iain G]

Chasing shadows in a comprehensive defeat tonight.
The positives from the tournament are Hanley and Gilmour. 2 more first picks.
Gilmour and McGregor were a nice midfield blend in the England game and that should be tried again.
Of the missing players we missed Ryan Jack most.
What we still need to find is a top striker.
Lastly, tonight we probably saw the changing of the guard at right back Patterson for O Donnell.

I think Adams shows promise up front, good movement and good control and brought others into the game, but we need someone who can take chances.

And we need to bring on a younger keeper.

[truehibernian]

:agree: Show me a proud loser and I’ll show you a loser.

He immediately told the press he was happy with the performance not the result v Czech Republic- that was enough of a warning sign for me. Results are what matter, end of. Opening game at home you couldn’t get a better chance to win. He’s dour, defensive, too loyal, and I’ll guarantee we wouldn’t have seen Gilmour and two strikers if there hadn’t been the criticism after the opening loss to the Czechs.

Tonight there was no width or pace, midfield were rudderless, and far too often it was hoofball from Marshall to an ineffective and poor Dykes. Very disjointed and lacking leadership. And please, simple rules of football - play players in their best position please !!!! McTominay is never a defender !!!

[JimBHibees]

Amazed we didn't change shape or personnel earlier. Missed some very good chances McGinn one second half has to be a goal and totally different game if we do. Czecks closed down Modric and dominated a lot of that game we let him control the game with no one on him and no pressure. Not rocket science. Second half was so disappointing. Earlier subs personally would have put Forrest on for SOD. Modric a genius

[hibsbollah]

Municipal investment in Scottish football. Novel concept.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

You could do it tomorrow. Cage pitches cost under 5k to buy and install. Easy to have a few dozen through minimal increase in National taxation or even Local taxation. It might even give Socialism a good name.

[Hibbyradge]

And I'll say it again, 30 yes 30 places above Scotland in the fifa rankings

England are 40 places above us.

[Hibbyradge]

How did England get to play three games at Wembley?

If they get to the final, they'll have played 6 out of 7 games at Wembley.

[500miles]

We lack a really good striker at that level and we sacrifice one of our best midfielders to a back 3.

I think we have a couple of guys coming through for the defence, but I don't see a striker with potential to reach the heights of our midfield and left backs.

We also looked a but naive at this level, but we've got a lot of potential to improve from here.

[neil7908]

My biggest issue with Clarke is how negative we are. We had to win tonight but that line up was screaming "let's try and nick a draw". I know that we are lacking options up front but we never seem inclined to put a positive team out to try and win. I find us tough to watch and although I'm happy to have qualified, I don't see us back any time soon as we simply don't score enough goals. That is partly quality but also how we are set up.

[Kato]

You could do it tomorrow. Cage pitches cost under 5k to buy and install. Easy to have a few dozen through minimal increase in National taxation or even Local taxation. It might even give Socialism a good name.Easily done, long term health and community benefits.

A no brainer that ain't going to happening any time soon.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Glory Lurker]

You could do it tomorrow. Cage pitches cost under 5k to buy and install. Easy to have a few dozen through minimal increase in National taxation or even Local taxation. It might even give Socialism a good name.

Agree, but we also need to teach our kids to enjoy playing the game and not have grown men encouraging 8 year old girls and boys to pull shirts and stand on toes. Providing the facilities is only a part of what's needed.

[gbhibby]

Thought Souness was spot on with his analysis. A bairn with a biscuit arse could see what happened in the first half. Clarke made errors in selection in the first game and also tonight.
We missed Gilmour but also Ryan Jack getting injured before the Euros was a blow. Jack is quality.
Clarke is too loyal to certain players O'Donnell being one.
Lessons will be learned but the manager needs to also look long and hard at his performance

[pacorosssco]

:agree: This is true. Kids football’s not cheap and involves having a car, making time around work. The investment in football cages in inner city London 10-15 years ago is a big reason why they got a generation of talent coming through, poor kids had somewhere to go and play for free.

Don't forget who gives these investments ultimately we still have youth set up under 15 playing in full size pitch and goals which leaves us behind technically than most of europe

[gbhibby]

You could do it tomorrow. Cage pitches cost under 5k to buy and install. Easy to have a few dozen through minimal increase in National taxation or even Local taxation. It might even give Socialism a good name.
You pass large grass parks which in the past was teeming with kids playing football. Nobody is using these spaces. You can build these cage pitches but will they be used?
We need to teach the basics. Kids should not always have to have to have organised football as they will never achieve the 10000 hours.

[Hibernia&Alba]

No shame at all in Scotland's performances. We did well to qualify in the first place, then missed match winning chances against both the Czech Republic and England. With a tad more quality we might have qualified for the last sixteen. Overall it was great to be in a finals again. For the first time since I was a young yin I took an interest in the national team.

[BILLYHIBS]

My tuppence worth :

I can’t understand how Dykes wisnae hooked ?

Brings on that huddy McKenna whose first touch was a yellow when we have the Captain of Leeds United ( Cooper) sitting on the bench

Patterson looked the real deal albeit for five minutes yet he persevered with O’Donnell

Where was Turnbull of Celtic ?

Nisbet shudda been on sooner

Clarke took too long to make much needed changes and vital decisions

Croatia were too good for us and I would not be surprised if they now go from strength to strength in the tournament

[Hibrandenburg]

The Czechs were the team to beat but we fudged it.

We put in a decent display against England and they put in a gash display against us.

We got shown our level by the current vice-champions of the world.

[Iain G]

My tuppence worth :

I can’t understand how Dykes wisnae hooked ?

Brings on that huddy McKenna whose first touch was a yellow when we have the Captain of Leeds United ( Cooper) sitting on the bench

Patterson looked the real deal albeit for five minutes yet he persevered with O’Donnell

Where was Turnbull of Celtic ?

Nisbet shudda been on sooner

Clarke took too long to make much needed changes and vital decisions

Croatia were too good for us and I would not be surprised if they now go from strength to strength in the tournament

Cooper should have started, McTominay moved into midfield to add energy and close down Modric and we should have made positive changes sooner in that second half to go win the game.

Patterson, Fraser and Nisbet should have been on sooner and given a chance.

[He's here!]

The Czechs were the team to beat but we fudged it.

We put in a decent display against England and they put in a gash display against us.

We got shown our level by the current vice-champions of the world.


Yes, plenty of huff and puff but we given a sobering lesson by the Czech Republic and, especially, by Croatia. England might have been dull to watch but they've still managed to win the group without conceding a goal.

The final group table is probably a pretty accurate reflection of where we're at as a football force.

[Pretty Boy]

Youth football is a huge issue for our ongoing failings. I've argued for years that professional clubs taking boys out of their club teams at 11 or 12 years old to 'develop' then helps no one in terms of football ability. It won't change though because it is entirely motivated by money, no one wants the next £2M player to end up at their rivals.

I'd argue a bigger issue is the quality of coaching though. It's hard to say this because it essentially ends up as a dig at guys giving up their own time for little to no compensation but it doesn't make it any less true. The SFA coaching pathway is rightly lauded at the higher levels but at the formative stages it's a joke. There is no accountability or assessment, turn up, nod your head and get a certificate to say you can coach children and teenagers. I done the next stage of the goalkeeper pathway during lockdown and it was all online. Watch a few videos, answer a few questions and click the mouse a few times. I'm now further qualified. Mental. Even going back to when I started the first course had guys there who should never have been awarded a qualification. They couldn't run through basic drills, struggled to answer simple questions and showed no ability to lead a session. 6 hours later they had shiny certificates and were off to coach goalkeepers up to 16 years old.

We need to remove the competitive element completely at the formative stages for young players. It just encourages bad coaches and pushy parents to do all the wrong things. I regularly watch a couple of youth teams train. One guy is horrendous. The other week after months without football he had young lads of about 10 or 11 running shuttles and was barking about fitness. They haven't played for months, give them a ****ing ball. He then lined them up in s straight line and had them make a 5 yard pass before spinning to the back of the line. He was receiving the pass. What's the point in that session? He gets 10 times as many touches as any of the players and what are they learning? On the flip side I regularly pass the all weather pitch Lochend train on and they look like they put together good sessions with loads of the ball, it can be done. Equally a couple of girls teams train near me and their sessions look very football orientated. Mini games, passing and moving and a lot of smiling and laughing. Maybe removing the macho element makes things more productive?

The point about facilities is well made as well. People hate plastic pitches but in Scotland they are a necessity for youth teams to train year round and there aren't enough of them and they are expensive to hire. A few of the cage pitches dotted about the schemes that kids could use for free as and when they wanted would be a good investment. Even if it didn't produce a single player, it's still a good societal investment.

Nothing will change though because money is at the forefront of every decision makers mind.

[jacomo]

My tuppence worth :

I can’t understand how Dykes wisnae hooked ?

Brings on that huddy McKenna whose first touch was a yellow when we have the Captain of Leeds United ( Cooper) sitting on the bench

Patterson looked the real deal albeit for five minutes yet he persevered with O’Donnell

Where was Turnbull of Celtic ?

Nisbet shudda been on sooner

Clarke took too long to make much needed changes and vital decisions

Croatia were too good for us and I would not be surprised if they now go from strength to strength in the tournament


Don’t disagree with any of that.

Understandable that we looked a little jaded after putting in a real shift against England but we needed fresh legs and to change it up quicker against Croatia.

I don’t think Fleck is all that good but him and Turnbull would have given us energy in midfield, we had 5 subs and should have used them earlier.

[500miles]

I don't get the "scrap it all and start again" attitude. We have made big changes and were producing more and more players at the top level. For years, McFadden was our talisman, and he wouldn't even be a first pick in this squad.

[B.H.F.C]

Don’t disagree with any of that.

Understandable that we looked a little jaded after putting in a real shift against England but we needed fresh legs and to change it up quicker against Croatia.

I don’t think Fleck is all that good but him and Turnbull would have given us energy in midfield, we had 5 subs and should have used them earlier.

The lack of subs was baffling. You could see something needed to change right from the start of the second half but game was gone by the time he did anything. And even when he did do something it was bringing a winger on out of position.

[jacomo]

The lack of subs was baffling. You could see something needed to change right from the start of the second half but game was gone by the time he did anything. And even when he did do something it was bringing a winger on out of position.


Ryan Fraser has little to offer in this tactical set up I think… possibly a sub for a tiring striker but that’s about it.

[number9dream]

The equaliser papered over cracks when changes were needed at H-T. Hanley going off made it tricky to change to a back four but we needed more bodies in midfield where we were completely overrun. The lack of threat & pace up top is worry going into September’s WC qualifiers.

Unlucky with Tierney & Gilmour situations, while Forrest & Fraser can’t have been properly fit either and losing Jack was a blow, but if he was there Gilmour would probably have been on Ardrossan beach for his holidays…

[Ronniekirk]

Their ability to keep possession even when tightly marked at times and pass and find pockets of space in areas that exposed us was something we didn’t cope with
Thier technical ability was a joy to watch at times
Moderic ,even at his age gave us a master class The goal was sublime but why he had so much space in that area ?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Numptie]

Tactically we got it wrong. The Czech Republic man marked Modric out of the game while I'm screaming at the telly every time I saw he was free - which was most of the time. Seemed to be no urgency to close him down. He ran the show and should have been stopped.

[Brightside]

They had a civil war. Maybe that gave them the fight.

I know this comes across as old man chat but there is some truth behind this. We dont have the quality coming through due to poor coaching, but we also dont have the numbers coming through as we don't have the desperate need / want to succeed as a nation. The whole great effort / well done / good try mentality. We also have a generation of spoilt children coming through. So we may get some really great footballers but we dont have the quantity to get to the next level.

There needs to be a huge investment in FREE grass roots football rather than it becoming more and more a middle class sport. Facilities need to be available 24/7 for Free sport. We have new school buildings with state of the art Astros but you cant get on it unless you pay £100 for an hour.

[Pretty Boy]

I know this comes across as old man chat but there is some truth behind this. We dont have the quality coming through due to poor coaching, but we also dont have the numbers coming through as we don't have the desperate need / want to succeed as a nation. The whole great effort / well done / good try mentality. We also have a generation of spoilt children coming through. So we may get some really great footballers but we dont have the quantity to get to the next level.

There needs to be a huge investment in FREE grass roots football rather than it becoming more and more a middle class sport. Facilities need to be available 24/7 for Free sport. We have new school buildings with state of the art Astros but you cant get on it unless you pay £100 for an hour.

2nd part is so true.

My daughter wants to start playing football and we are looking at in the region of £50 a month. People might argue that is pretty good value for 12 hours of football a month but add it to £30 for ballet, £21 for swimming and so on and it all adds up.

I'm fortunate that I can afford it but how many potentially talented kids are excluded because of those costs? I get that everything has a cost but surely investing in the physical and mental health of children through inclusive access to sports is something well worth spending a lot of money on? If we produce someone with half the talent of Luka Modric as a result then all the better.

[Brightside]

Youth football is a huge issue for our ongoing failings. I've argued for years that professional clubs taking boys out of their club teams at 11 or 12 years old to 'develop' then helps no one in terms of football ability. It won't change though because it is entirely motivated by money, no one wants the next £2M player to end up at their rivals.

I'd argue a bigger issue is the quality of coaching though. It's hard to say this because it essentially ends up as a dig at guys giving up their own time for little to no compensation but it doesn't make it any less true. The SFA coaching pathway is rightly lauded at the higher levels but at the formative stages it's a joke. There is no accountability or assessment, turn up, nod your head and get a certificate to say you can coach children and teenagers. I done the next stage of the goalkeeper pathway during lockdown and it was all online. Watch a few videos, answer a few questions and click the mouse a few times. I'm now further qualified. Mental. Even going back to when I started the first course had guys there who should never have been awarded a qualification. They couldn't run through basic drills, struggled to answer simple questions and showed no ability to lead a session. 6 hours later they had shiny certificates and were off to coach goalkeepers up to 16 years old.

We need to remove the competitive element completely at the formative stages for young players. It just encourages bad coaches and pushy parents to do all the wrong things. I regularly watch a couple of youth teams train. One guy is horrendous. The other week after months without football he had young lads of about 10 or 11 running shuttles and was barking about fitness. They haven't played for months, give them a ****ing ball. He then lined them up in s straight line and had them make a 5 yard pass before spinning to the back of the line. He was receiving the pass. What's the point in that session? He gets 10 times as many touches as any of the players and what are they learning? On the flip side I regularly pass the all weather pitch Lochend train on and they look like they put together good sessions with loads of the ball, it can be done. Equally a couple of girls teams train near me and their sessions look very football orientated. Mini games, passing and moving and a lot of smiling and laughing. Maybe removing the macho element makes things more productive?

The point about facilities is well made as well. People hate plastic pitches but in Scotland they are a necessity for youth teams to train year round and there aren't enough of them and they are expensive to hire. A few of the cage pitches dotted about the schemes that kids could use for free as and when they wanted would be a good investment. Even if it didn't produce a single player, it's still a good societal investment.

Nothing will change though because money is at the forefront of every decision makers mind.

Good post. I used to coach at Lochend and all coaches sessions followed an agreed path / style. All about touches, use of both feet, variations of play, but all plays that would happen in a game (3rd man runs etc). But come 11/12 half the players are pinched by Pro Youth never to be seen until them come back to local clubs at 16 and they havent developed at all. Its pretty depressing. Pro Youth should be abolished. All youth teams FORCED to coach in an agreed manner to improve the technique of the player. But it wont happen. There was a video up on YFS in the last few days of a young lad doing loads of great turns, chops etc and there was plenty comments slagging off the defending rather than appreciating the lad actually expressing himself on the pitch.

Our own fans dont even like a style of football were we concentrate on keeping possession to slowly create chances. So i cant see anything changing. Its just not the scottish way.

[Brightside]

2nd part is so true.

My daughter wants to start playing football and we are looking at in the region of £50 a month. People might argue that is pretty good value for 12 hours of football a month but add it to £30 for ballet, £21 for swimming and so on and it all adds up.

I'm fortunate that I can afford it but how many potentially talented kids are excluded because of those costs? I get that everything has a cost but surely investing in the physical and mental health of children through inclusive access to sports is something well worth spending a lot of money on? If we produce someone with half the talent of Luka Modric as a result then all the better.

I'd love to know who is charging you £50 a month. Thats scandalous. I'd probably guess its one of the "pro" teams.

[StevieT]

Youth football is a huge issue for our ongoing failings. I've argued for years that professional clubs taking boys out of their club teams at 11 or 12 years old to 'develop' then helps no one in terms of football ability. It won't change though because it is entirely motivated by money, no one wants the next £2M player to end up at their rivals.

I'd argue a bigger issue is the quality of coaching though. It's hard to say this because it essentially ends up as a dig at guys giving up their own time for little to no compensation but it doesn't make it any less true. The SFA coaching pathway is rightly lauded at the higher levels but at the formative stages it's a joke. There is no accountability or assessment, turn up, nod your head and get a certificate to say you can coach children and teenagers. I done the next stage of the goalkeeper pathway during lockdown and it was all online. Watch a few videos, answer a few questions and click the mouse a few times. I'm now further qualified. Mental. Even going back to when I started the first course had guys there who should never have been awarded a qualification. They couldn't run through basic drills, struggled to answer simple questions and showed no ability to lead a session. 6 hours later they had shiny certificates and were off to coach goalkeepers up to 16 years old.

We need to remove the competitive element completely at the formative stages for young players. It just encourages bad coaches and pushy parents to do all the wrong things. I regularly watch a couple of youth teams train. One guy is horrendous. The other week after months without football he had young lads of about 10 or 11 running shuttles and was barking about fitness. They haven't played for months, give them a ****ing ball. He then lined them up in s straight line and had them make a 5 yard pass before spinning to the back of the line. He was receiving the pass. What's the point in that session? He gets 10 times as many touches as any of the players and what are they learning? On the flip side I regularly pass the all weather pitch Lochend train on and they look like they put together good sessions with loads of the ball, it can be done. Equally a couple of girls teams train near me and their sessions look very football orientated. Mini games, passing and moving and a lot of smiling and laughing. Maybe removing the macho element makes things more productive?

The point about facilities is well made as well. People hate plastic pitches but in Scotland they are a necessity for youth teams to train year round and there aren't enough of them and they are expensive to hire. A few of the cage pitches dotted about the schemes that kids could use for free as and when they wanted would be a good investment. Even if it didn't produce a single player, it's still a good societal investment.

Nothing will change though because money is at the forefront of every decision makers mind.

PB, I agree with a lot of what you say in your post. I would like to add that one of the biggest issues in the Scottish game is that there is nowhere for younger players to develop against seasoned pros. The games has gone backwards since the end of the reserve leagues. A mix of younger players, first team players getting match practice and players returning from injury gave the younger players a challenge. They no longer get this and so we see fewer youngsters stepping up to the first team squads, let alone getting any game time. This must impact on their development.

[mayo hibee]

:agree: Show me a proud loser and I’ll show you a loser.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

That wasn't a group of death by any means. Qualification for the knockouts was an achievable goal.

The Czechs are not a great side but Scotland made them look like one in the second half of that game. Croatia are a little better but will likely be picked off fairly easily once they play one of the top five or six teams. Again Scotland made them look like world beaters last night in the second half. England are vastly overrated - as a team they are much less than the sum of their parts. The draw in London was an achievement but ultimately useless as it wasn't backed up in the other games.

Getting one draw and scoring one goal in three games, two of them at home with fans in the ground, against that opposition is nothing to be celebrated.

GK, right side of defence and centre forward are still huge problem areas. Centre of defence is cobbled together using players out of position and that approach catches up with teams eventually.

The world cup qualification group is as easy as it will ever get for a team like Scotland. Denmark are weak for a first seed and have probably lost their best player permanently. Topping that group should be the aim but I don't see Clark as the man to do it, he's too conservative in the games that matter.

[Lago]

Have to agree with what Souness said last night, Scotland was playing a dated long ball game & were years behind Croatia in ability. Qualifying for the W. C. is going to be a struggle.

[GreenCastle]

Youth football is a huge issue for our ongoing failings. I've argued for years that professional clubs taking boys out of their club teams at 11 or 12 years old to 'develop' then helps no one in terms of football ability. It won't change though because it is entirely motivated by money, no one wants the next £2M player to end up at their rivals.

I'd argue a bigger issue is the quality of coaching though. It's hard to say this because it essentially ends up as a dig at guys giving up their own time for little to no compensation but it doesn't make it any less true. The SFA coaching pathway is rightly lauded at the higher levels but at the formative stages it's a joke. There is no accountability or assessment, turn up, nod your head and get a certificate to say you can coach children and teenagers. I done the next stage of the goalkeeper pathway during lockdown and it was all online. Watch a few videos, answer a few questions and click the mouse a few times. I'm now further qualified. Mental. Even going back to when I started the first course had guys there who should never have been awarded a qualification. They couldn't run through basic drills, struggled to answer simple questions and showed no ability to lead a session. 6 hours later they had shiny certificates and were off to coach goalkeepers up to 16 years old.

We need to remove the competitive element completely at the formative stages for young players. It just encourages bad coaches and pushy parents to do all the wrong things. I regularly watch a couple of youth teams train. One guy is horrendous. The other week after months without football he had young lads of about 10 or 11 running shuttles and was barking about fitness. They haven't played for months, give them a ****ing ball. He then lined them up in s straight line and had them make a 5 yard pass before spinning to the back of the line. He was receiving the pass. What's the point in that session? He gets 10 times as many touches as any of the players and what are they learning? On the flip side I regularly pass the all weather pitch Lochend train on and they look like they put together good sessions with loads of the ball, it can be done. Equally a couple of girls teams train near me and their sessions look very football orientated. Mini games, passing and moving and a lot of smiling and laughing. Maybe removing the macho element makes things more productive?

The point about facilities is well made as well. People hate plastic pitches but in Scotland they are a necessity for youth teams to train year round and there aren't enough of them and they are expensive to hire. A few of the cage pitches dotted about the schemes that kids could use for free as and when they wanted would be a good investment. Even if it didn't produce a single player, it's still a good societal investment.

Nothing will change though because money is at the forefront of every decision makers mind.

Some really good points.

I will did that even further up the SFA coaching pathway some folk are getting UEFA A, B and C licenses and they are useless. It’s about making money for the SFA and even the CPD offering is woeful.

It’s about culture basically..3G pitches cost money to put in and maintain properly. I’ve seen 3G pitches in Glasgow and Edinburgh where folk have trashed it / leave litter / break the goals / burn the 3G.

I’ve seen schools in Edinburgh such as Broughton where they install a new 3G - kids play on it / jump the fence to play on it / but it’s never maintained - meaning it won’t last as long and need replaced before you know it - more money.

I’ve seen 3G freeze over etc so really what we need is indoor pitches where possible to deal with the crap weather we seem to get for half the year ! Don’t have to be full size as they are ridiculously expensive but utilise warehouses etc and get kids playing.

The cost of sessions…America has / had this issue of many youth teams pricing out others. It’s an issue but football is still relatively cheap compared to some other activities. But parents and players more picky so they want value for money and playing on a nice 3G at Spartans will appeal more to some than a bit of worn grass with no lights elsewhere.

We also have an issue of the Old Firm in Scotland - being the top 2 they really should be producing more talent for the national team but they won’t / they will continue to buy ready made players to win the domestic trophies. Occasionally a young player may break through but it should be happening more often.

The best players will always get picked up by bigger clubs down south etc but we still aren’t producing enough depth and talent.

The other part is the governance of the game being the SFA and Hampden. Fans don’t like either - this either needs a rebrand or a clear out to give fresh hope. Add in the awful Hampden experience. Rebuild the ends or redevelop the stadium as an Ibrox type stadium you would really allow Scotland to use home advantage more. Opposition players aren’t intimidated playing at Hampden. Small things but they all add up and like I said on the Steve Clarke thread I can’t see us qualifying for World Cup - we need to make sure we make the next Euros in Germany with an established and settled team. Not doing what Clarke did in 1st game and playing a back 3 who have never even played together.

[Smartie]

I don't disagree that we need to do much better regarding infrastructure etc, however...

Do we not have more talent in our squad than at any point in recent history? We've got 2 European Cup winners, players who have a fair bit of their careers still in front of them. We've got players playing a part clubs ike Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. We've got others like Patterson who probably have moves to big clubs in front of them, and even the majority of the ones who still play in Scotland will be getting regular European football and occasional Champions League exposure.

We have a couple of Achilles heels in the Scotland team but I think that more than ever I think we just need to let the team mature together and find solutions to certain problems within the team.

Given the ages of our goalkeepers though, that looks like it might become the next problem position.

[Kato]

Given the ages of our goalkeepers though, that looks like it might become the next problem position.


Move McTominey even further back?


Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Given the ages of our goalkeepers though, that looks like it might become the next problem position.

I'd be tempted to get zander Clark in the squad, 28 and a decent keeper who could get better in the international squad.

[GreenCastle]

I'd be tempted to get zander Clark in the squad, 28 and a decent keeper who could get better in the international squad.

Not sure he’s the long term solution.

Also Clarke probably should have taken a young keeper for experience this tournament. Waste of time taking 3 older keepers if we want to get tournament experience.

[JimBHibees]

Not sure he’s the long term solution.

Also Clarke probably should have taken a young keeper for experience this tournament. Waste of time taking 3 older keepers if we want to get tournament experience.

Fair point.

[wallpaperman]

2nd part is so true.

My daughter wants to start playing football and we are looking at in the region of £50 a month. People might argue that is pretty good value for 12 hours of football a month but add it to £30 for ballet, £21 for swimming and so on and it all adds .

How old is your daughter? Mine is 10, plays for a club that costs £20 a month. They train twice a week for 1 and a half hours each night and games on a Sunday. They get strips provided as well for that payment.

It’s great value for money and the coaches put in so much of their own time and effort.

7 a side games on a Sunday and even at under 11 they are pretty competitive, although understandably there is a wide range of experience and ability. The girls would hate it if there wasn’t games as well as training.

I can understand as they get older that it will cost a little more when referees etc have to be paid for.

[Just_Jimmy]

Scotland get gubbed. inquest starts, nothing changes. 18 month later, same again.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

How old is your daughter? Mine is 10, plays for a club that costs £20 a month. They train twice a week for 1 and a half hours each night and games on a Sunday. They get strips provided as well for that payment.

It’s great value for money and the coaches put in so much of their own time and effort.

7 a side games on a Sunday and even at under 11 they are pretty competitive, although understandably there is a wide range of experience and ability. The girls would hate it if there wasn’t games as well as training.

I can understand as they get older that it will cost a little more when referees etc have to be paid for.

I coached an under 19 team a year or so ago and we charged 20 per month. 50 a month sounds incredibly excessive