Robertson, Tierney, McTominay, Gilmour

[Diclonius]

All playing for teams in elite leagues that regularly challenge for the Champions League and reach the final stages. McGinn soon to follow.

That's four more than we've had in a long time - the national team could really be in for a bright future for once. :agree:

[CMurdoch]

What do we need to improve?

Part 1
Hopefully we can unearth a quality goalkeeper soon with the current best, McGregor, Gordon and Marshall now between 36 and 40 years of age. The next best McLaughlin is about to turn 34. As things stand that leaves 28 year old Craig MacGilivray of Portsmouth top of the pile with no other Scottish keeper in his rear mirror.

[CMurdoch]

What do we need to improve?

Part 2
Hopefully Patterson turns out the real deal at right back.
As it stands we know he is a good athlete who is decent going forward.
What we need to find out is can he defend.
What he needs is lots of game time next season. Don't think he will get it.

[MWHIBBIES]

All playing for teams in elite leagues that regularly challenge for the Champions League and reach the final stages. McGinn soon to follow.

That's four more than we've had in a long time - the national team could really be in for a bright future for once. :agree:

Lot of faith in Villa there.

McGinn wont be joining a club at that level this summer.

[Pretty Boy]

I think as fans we need to lose the fear of throwing guys like Patterson in. It probably means suspending our instinct of saying 'he's only there because he plays for Rangers/Celtic'.

It would have been easy for Clarke to go with Armstrong or Christie last night in the midfield but he went with a guy who has played less than 30 club games in his career and it paid dividends. It could be argued he took something of a gamble that evidently paid off.

I feel the same about Patterson. He showed up well for Rangers in the games he played. I expect I'll get grief for this bit I'd rather have a young lad who could be anything in the Scotland squad than someone like Paul McGinn there to make up the numbers. O'Donnell is rightly the man with the shirt at the moment but in time I'd like to see Patterson more involved so we can see what he's all about.

I know he missed a couple of chances last night but I like the look of Adams up front too. The biggest issue, and it's hardly a new one for Scotland, is that we don't have much else in the goalscoring department.

There us a decent core there and a lot of them are still young as well. If we can plug a couple of the gaps we aren't far off being a very decent team.

[CMurdoch]

What do we need to improve?

Part 3
We need to unearth another top class scoring striker.
Adams has given us our first high profile striker for a while and his addition has been a big boost. Hopefully he can start scoring regularly for us but we could do with another striker of at least the same level

Nisbet keeps improving as a player. A good one touch finisher. I don't want him to leave Hibs but as things stand we don't know how good he is. Can he be the guy?
Dykes isn't going to score many goals. Is useful against big teams like England because he is great at holding the ball up and winning it in the air.

[makaveli1875]

Its probably the most exciting Scotland team in my life . Just need a striker to step up and score some goals . Think leaving griffiths at home was a bad idea , he's still the best striker we have at this level

[Hibrandenburg]

Its probably the most exciting Scotland team in my life . Just need a striker to step up and score some goals . Think leaving griffiths at home was a bad idea , he's still the best striker we have at this level

Agreed, but I'm not sure he has the work ethic to play the system we did last night.

[Del Boy]

Agreed, but I'm not sure he has the work ethic to play the system we did last night.

He definitely doesn’t.

[makaveli1875]

Agreed, but I'm not sure he has the work ethic to play the system we did last night.

He doesnt and Clarke got the team and system spot on . he'd have been useful for the Croatia game though .

[calumhibee1]

A striker.

If we had someone of the standard Giroud, Lacazette, Calvert-Lewin, Depay etc then we’d be getting to tournaments regularly imo.

Our relatively poor standard of forward really hampers us from taking that next step.

[matty_f]

I think as fans we need to lose the fear of throwing guys like Patterson in. It probably means suspending our instinct of saying 'he's only there because he plays for Rangers/Celtic'.

It would have been easy for Clarke to go with Armstrong or Christie last night in the midfield but he went with a guy who has played less than 30 club games in his career and it paid dividends. It could be argued he took something of a gamble that evidently paid off.

I feel the same about Patterson. He showed up well for Rangers in the games he played. I expect I'll get grief for this bit I'd rather have a young lad who could be anything in the Scotland squad than someone like Paul McGinn there to make up the numbers. O'Donnell is rightly the man with the shirt at the moment but in time I'd like to see Patterson more involved so we can see what he's all about.

I know he missed a couple of chances last night but I like the look of Adams up front too. The biggest issue, and it's hardly a new one for Scotland, is that we don't have much else in the goalscoring department.

There us a decent core there and a lot of them are still young as well. If we can plug a couple of the gaps we aren't far off being a very decent team.

I don’t think Patterson should be anywhere near the squad at the moment. A lot of hype around him but he’s had a couple of good performances in a team that, for the most part, are comfortably better than their opponents and play on the front foot. IIRC, he’s had a couple of good games in Europe but can anyone really say that he’s proved himself at a good enough level for long enough yet?

You look at the hype around Cochrane at Hearts, if he’d broken through at Rangers the way he did at Hearts, folk would have wanted to build the team around him but he’s nowhere near good enough a couple of years later.

I agree with the “if you’re good enough, you’re old enough” line of thinking, but if you’re not good enough to be playing regularly in the SPFL then I don’t think you should be considered for the Scotland first team.

I think there’s a difference with Gilmour because you could make the same argument, but you look at the level you have to be to be on the Chelsea first team squad and then the levels of performance he’s put in against world class players at the highest level, and he’s worth his place.

[Hibbyradge]

If we had a class striker, we'd be sitting on top of the group with 6 points.

[Pretty Boy]

I don’t think Patterson should be anywhere near the squad at the moment. A lot of hype around him but he’s had a couple of good performances in a team that, for the most part, are comfortably better than their opponents and play on the front foot. IIRC, he’s had a couple of good games in Europe but can anyone really say that he’s proved himself at a good enough level for long enough yet?

You look at the hype around Cochrane at Hearts, if he’d broken through at Rangers the way he did at Hearts, folk would have wanted to build the team around him but he’s nowhere near good enough a couple of years later.

I agree with the “if you’re good enough, you’re old enough” line of thinking, but if you’re not good enough to be playing regularly in the SPFL then I don’t think you should be considered for the Scotland first team.

I think there’s a difference with Gilmour because you could make the same argument, but you look at the level you have to be to be on the Chelsea first team squad and then the levels of performance he’s put in against world class players at the highest level, and he’s worth his place.

If there was another outstanding RB/RWB option sitting at home to accommodate Patterson I'd agree. To my knowledge though there isn't. He's unlikely to play, O'Donnell will start and there are other ways we can reshuffle if required as well. If it's a choice between taking an uncapped 30 year old who has shown you everything he has and a once capped 19 year old with potential then you take the youngster every time imo. I'm heartened that Clarke appears to feel the same way.

Of course you won't hit the jackpot every time. A few years back when John McGinn first made the squad he was playing in the Scottish Championship. Obviously he had played in the Premiership before but his career was at a major crossroads when he signed for us. I think his other option was the MLS. I daresay there were people who felt an experienced English Championship player was a better option at the time. McGinn worked out OK. Kieran Tierney won his 1st caps when had only just broke 20 appearances for Celtic's 1st team, likewise Andy Robertson had played less than 30 Premiership games for Dundee Utd when he got his 1st cap. In the same period Jack Hamilton was also in a few squads. That was obviously with one eye on the ageing goalkeeper issue we have now, that one didn't work out but I didn't and don't have any issue with us trying something different because for the most part we are now reaping the benefits of putting a bit faith in those relatively inexperienced youngsters.

[ScottB]

It’s hoping there’s a few more kids coming through at Gilmour’s level, there’s a Scottish kid at Man City, Bayern have one they nabbed off Celtic etc.

[Northernhibee]

Wonder if Ethan Laidlaw will become good enough to be the quality striker we need?

[matty_f]

If there was another outstanding RB/RWB option sitting at home to accommodate Patterson I'd agree. To my knowledge though there isn't. He's unlikely to play, O'Donnell will start and there are other ways we can reshuffle if required as well. If it's a choice between taking an uncapped 30 year old who has shown you everything he has and a once capped 19 year old with potential then you take the youngster every time imo. I'm heartened that Clarke appears to feel the same way.

Of course you won't hit the jackpot every time. A few years back when John McGinn first made the squad he was playing in the Scottish Championship. Obviously he had played in the Premiership before but his career was at a major crossroads when he signed for us. I think his other option was the MLS. I daresay there were people who felt an experienced English Championship player was a better option at the time. McGinn worked out OK. Kieran Tierney won his 1st caps when had only just broke 20 appearances for Celtic's 1st team, likewise Andy Robertson had played less than 30 Premiership games for Dundee Utd when he got his 1st cap. In the same period Jack Hamilton was also in a few squads. That was obviously with one eye on the ageing goalkeeper issue we have now, that one didn't work out but I didn't and don't have any issue with us trying something different because for the most part we are now reaping the benefits of putting a bit faith in those relatively inexperienced youngsters.

McGinn, Roberson, and Tierney had all shown more than Patterson, though, and were all first choice for their teams but the time they were capped.

I have no problem with the principle of playing younger guys to bring them through, but I do think that they need to be playing at a good level regularly to be considered for the national side.

[jacomo]

McGinn, Roberson, and Tierney had all shown more than Patterson, though, and were all first choice for their teams but the time they were capped.

I have no problem with the principle of playing younger guys to bring them through, but I do think that they need to be playing at a good level regularly to be considered for the national side.


I broadly agree with you but Gilmour proves us wrong. I thought these championships had come too early for him but he rose to the occasion on Friday. Of course we will now be denied the opportunity of seeing whether he could do it two games in a row.

Maybe Patterson will seize his chance too? We seem to have a good group who make it easy for young players to be part of it… honest pros playing the biggest games of their careers and role models like Robertson and McGinn who have played at a lower level but now living the dream.

Nisbet too has been on a very steep climb… from East End Park to Wembley in a year.

I had underestimated this group of players I think… the way Robertson talks about them deserving respect has real merit.

[matty_f]

I broadly agree with you but Gilmour proves us wrong. I thought these championships had come too early for him but he rose to the occasion on Friday. Of course we will now be denied the opportunity of seeing whether he could do it two games in a row.

Maybe Patterson will seize his chance too? We seem to have a good group who make it easy for young players to be part of it… honest pros playing the biggest games of their careers and role models like Robertson and McGinn who have played at a lower level but now living the dream.

Nisbet too has been on a very steep climb… from East End Park to Wembley in a year.

I had underestimated this group of players I think… the way Robertson talks about them deserving respect has real merit.

I don’t think Gilmour proves us wrong. Chelsea are a much higher level than SPFL, he’s been in the squad and first team of the side that won the Champions League. It’s a different scenario from Patterson. If he was breaking through at Chelsea, Liverpool, City etc then he’d be knocking on the door of the international side as well.

[Greenbeard]

What do we need to improve?

Part 2
Hopefully Patterson turns out the real deal at right back.
As it stands we know he is a good athlete who is decent going forward.
What we need to find out is can he defend.
What he needs is lots of game time next season. Don't think he will get it.
Even if he does, he'll not be tested defensively to a sufficient degree playing domestic games for The The Stickies. Loaning him out to a bottom six club where he is challenged defensively week in week out would be the best move for the lad's development if he is going to be the right sided equivalent of Tierney or Robertson. But that ain't gonna happen.
A loan I mean.

[jacomo]

I don’t think Gilmour proves us wrong. Chelsea are a much higher level than SPFL, he’s been in the squad and first team of the side that won the Champions League. It’s a different scenario from Patterson. If he was breaking through at Chelsea, Liverpool, City etc then he’d be knocking on the door of the international side as well.


Gilmour had very little game time for Chelsea last season, certainly not playing regularly.

As I said I was mostly agreeing with you.

[overdrive]

Even if he does, he'll not be tested defensively to a sufficient degree playing domestic games for The The Stickies. Loaning him out to a bottom six club where he is challenged defensively week in week out would be the best move for the lad's development if he is going to be the right sided equivalent of Tierney or Robertson. But that ain't gonna happen.
A loan I mean.

I kind of agree but the lowest level Tierney played was domestically for Celtic with little defensive challenge - and for a good of the time without Rangers in the league. It didn’t do him much harm.

[Speedy]

Even if he does, he'll not be tested defensively to a sufficient degree playing domestic games for The The Stickies. Loaning him out to a bottom six club where he is challenged defensively week in week out would be the best move for the lad's development if he is going to be the right sided equivalent of Tierney or Robertson. But that ain't gonna happen.
A loan I mean.

Games in Europe will cover that off for him, if he gets the games ahead of Tavernier that is.

[shetlandhibee]

Its probably the most exciting Scotland team in my life . Just need a striker to step up and score some goals . Think leaving griffiths at home was a bad idea , he's still the best striker we have at this level
By a mile yes agree with that nisbets no where near his class , m8 re game time or not!!

[shetlandhibee]

Its probably the most exciting Scotland team in my life . Just need a striker to step up and score some goals . Think leaving griffiths at home was a bad idea , he's still the best striker we have at this level
By a mile yes agree with that nisbets no where near his class , m8 re game time or not!!

[Northernhibee]

By a mile yes agree with that nisbets no where near his class , m8 re game time or not!!

Nisbet scored a lot more goals than him this season past. He deserves to be in that squad.

[Sylar]

I think O'Donnell's earned the right to start tonight after his performance on Friday night. I never thought I'd be saying that after his showing vs Czechia, but he was fantastic against England.

Patterson remains underdeveloped for now, though the few times I've seen him play, he's looked extremely competent going forward (less so defensively). His problem is that he's unlikely to get much game time next season at RB for Rangers since that's their captain's spot. At the same time, I can't see Rangers letting him go out on loan to develop as they'd be left with no cover whatsoever and let's face it, Rangers aren't obligated to develop him on behalf of the national side.

I think Che Adams has great potential as a striker for us - he just seemed too eager on Friday.

Whatever happened to the so-called superstar in Tom Cairney (Fulham)? He was being raved about for months last year when squads were getting picked and I've never really heard of him since.

[JimBHibees]

By a mile yes agree with that nisbets no where near his class , m8 re game time or not!!

This season he definitely has been near his class.

[JimBHibees]

I think O'Donnell's earned the right to start tonight after his performance on Friday night. I never thought I'd be saying that after his showing vs Czechia, but he was fantastic against England.

Patterson remains underdeveloped for now, though the few times I've seen him play, he's looked extremely competent going forward (less so defensively). His problem is that he's unlikely to get much game time next season at RB for Rangers since that's their captain's spot. At the same time, I can't see Rangers letting him go out on loan to develop as they'd be left with no cover whatsoever and let's face it, Rangers aren't obligated to develop him on behalf of the national side.

I think Che Adams has great potential as a striker for us - he just seemed too eager on Friday.

Whatever happened to the so-called superstar in Tom Cairney (Fulham)? He was being raved about for months last year when squads were getting picked and I've never really heard of him since.

Agree about ODonnell and think he will start as Perisic is one of their biggest threats. Will be interesting to see what we do about Gilmour replacement. Either Armstrong who I struggle a wee bit with or McTominay and someone like Hendry in who wasn't great v Czechs. Don't really have a similar player to Gilmour and maybe Turnbull could be considered but can't see it so assume Armstrong will start. Personally would keep defence as England and change midfield. Think Forrest may have a big role to play tonight.

[HibbyDave]

It’s all opinions but I don’t think McTominay should be anywhere near the Scotland squad.

[Hibernian Verse]

It’s all opinions but I don’t think McTominay should be anywhere near the Scotland squad.

Why?

[MWHIBBIES]

It’s all opinions but I don’t think McTominay should be anywhere near the Scotland squad.

You don't think Man Uniteds central midfielder, who by all accounts has done well for them and Scotland, should be in the squad? He played 49 games for the 2nd place team in England. He could lose his head and he'd still be in the squad.

I know its all about opinions but some are just way off.

[AgentDaleCooper]

It’s all opinions but I don’t think McTominay should be anywhere near the Scotland squad.

That's a very niche opinion :aok:

[Greenbeard]

You don't think Man Uniteds central midfielder, who by all accounts has done well for them and Scotland, should be in the squad? He played 49 games for the 2nd place team in England. He could lose his head and he'd still be in the squad.

I know its all about opinions but some are just way off.
Must admit I have questioned the rave reviews he gets for Man U (unwitnessed by me) when he has been fairy mediocre for Scotland, but then we haven't been playing him as a CDM.

[Ryan91]

It’s all opinions but I don’t think McTominay should be anywhere near the Scotland squad.

Disagree that he shouldn't be in the squad, but certainly don't think McTominay should be played at Centre Half. He's not a natural defender and we have guys like Liam Cooper playing CB in the same league as McTominay.

Be interesting to see how McTominay might be if he was played at his natural Centre mid position instead

[Bristolhibby]

Gilmour had very little game time for Chelsea last season, certainly not playing regularly.

As I said I was mostly agreeing with you.

Talk of him going on loan to Norwich.

Would be a great move for the lad. First team Premier League football.

J

[Sylar]

Talk of him going on loan to Norwich.

Would be a great move for the lad. First team Premier League football.

J

There's also talk of him signing on loan for Rangers this coming season...

[JimBHibees]

Disagree that he shouldn't be in the squad, but certainly don't think McTominay should be played at Centre Half. He's not a natural defender and we have guys like Liam Cooper playing CB in the same league as McTominay.

Be interesting to see how McTominay might be if he was played at his natural Centre mid position instead

Thought he was pretty average in midfield in first game.

[HibbyDave]

Why?

Out of position lots of times and spends more time “pointing” than defending.
As I say it’s just my opinion.

[Just_Jimmy]

Out of position lots of times and spends more time “pointing” than defending.
As I say it’s just my opinion.out of position when the game kicks off cos he's a midfielder not a defender. Clarke tries to shoe horn him in. either pick him in midfield (and let's not pretend Ryan Jack is better in that role) or don't, but don't play him as a defender.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Brightside]

It’s all opinions but I don’t think McTominay should be anywhere near the Scotland squad.

It is all about opinions. Dont think you would find many people who agree with that though. He is class and a huge player for us.