Low emissions zone for Edinburgh from next spring

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-57452499

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-57452499

I suppose we can’t keep talking about climate change targets without actually taking action that affects day to day life. Good decision.


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[Moulin Yarns]

I suppose we can’t keep talking about climate change targets without actually taking action that affects day to day life. Good decision.


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I think the cooncil are voting on it next week. But aye, it's the next step that really started with the parking zones all those years ago.

It will affect me any time I want to go into town but it might also speed up my electrification.

[Stairway 2 7]

Like the idea of trying something but it will disproportionately effect poorer people. They are the ones that are less likely to have a modern car. A grant to part help them to buy a car that's up to standard would help

[Moulin Yarns]

Like the idea of trying something but it will disproportionately effect poorer people. They are the ones that are less likely to have a modern car. A grant to part help them to buy a car that's up to standard would help

I think Edinburgh has a good public transport system which is reasonably priced. If I lived in the city I probably wouldn't have a car for daily use and would hire one when needed.

[Ozyhibby]

Like the idea of trying something but it will disproportionately effect poorer people. They are the ones that are less likely to have a modern car. A grant to part help them to buy a car that's up to standard would help

Subsidising cars is no way to combat climate change.


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[ACLeith]

I think Edinburgh has a good public transport system.

To certain parts of the city only MY. East end of Leith has been pathetic for years and won't be getting better

[Stairway 2 7]

I think Edinburgh has a good public transport system which is reasonably priced. If I lived in the city I probably wouldn't have a car for daily use and would hire one when needed.

In the centre defo but more and more the poorer are getting moved to the outskirts. Some need a car for work as buses can make 20 minutes turn to an hour, add in schools sports shopping ect. It's a big chunk of the city to go round. Policy makers won't have 8 year old cars so probably don't even think about these things. Tax on the poor as per even with intentions I agree with

[Stairway 2 7]

Subsidising cars is no way to combat climate change.


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Could be electric. Thinking car use is just going to stop is just ridiculous. There's loads of people who work with me that just couldn't without a car.

[Ozyhibby]

Could be electric. Thinking car use is just going to stop is just ridiculous. There's loads of people who work with me that just couldn't without a car.

I think with good policy that car use can be massively decreased. A lot of young people don’t bother getting cars as early as previous generations. And the rise of home working will also help.
I understand where you are coming from but I don’t see any other way. We need to cut emissions and cut car use. That means ordinary people not using cars.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Like the idea of trying something but it will disproportionately effect poorer people. They are the ones that are less likely to have a modern car. A grant to part help them to buy a car that's up to standard would help

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/low-emission-zone-support-fund-for-households/

[Stairway 2 7]

At my work there's hundreds of people start work at the King's buildings between between 6 and 7. About 50% would have to stop working if no car. Others have to pick up kids 15 minutes after work and would need to work 45 minutes less a day if no car. This will be replicated across the city.

It's would be nice if no cars for the public. But it's usually said by people who can work from home or are fortunate enough to live near the centre

[Stairway 2 7]

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/low-emission-zone-support-fund-for-households/

2000 isn't getting you much but decent idea

[CropleyWasGod]

2000 isn't getting you much but decent idea

They also give interest-free loans.

That might not appeal to people just now, given the high cost of electric cars, but as demand increases prices will drop.

[Moulin Yarns]

In the centre defo but more and more the poorer are getting moved to the outskirts. Some need a car for work as buses can make 20 minutes turn to an hour, add in schools sports shopping ect. It's a big chunk of the city to go round. Policy makers won't have 8 year old cars so probably don't even think about these things. Tax on the poor as per even with intentions I agree with

Admittedly it was a long time ago, 1978/79 when I lived in Wester Hailes and worked just off Shandwick Place. My mum worked in John Menzies on Princes Street, and she got the bus to and from work while I walked. Guess who got to work and home first? :wink: I know, it was before bus lanes became a thing, but congestion has been around in Edinburgh for more than 40 years :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Admittedly it was a long time ago, 1978/79 when I lived in Wester Hailes and worked just off Shandwick Place. My mum worked in John Menzies on Princes Street, and she got the bus to and from work while I walked. Guess who got to work and home first? :wink: I know, it was before bus lanes became a thing, but congestion has been around in Edinburgh for more than 40 years :greengrin
I used to walk home from off Shandwick place to leith most days when I was young. I wish my would let me add an hour each way to my commute but that would be taking the p. Its OK when your young not in your 50s 60s or picking up dropping off kids ect. I don't think you need a car if live in town but out of it defo sadly

[Stairway 2 7]

I cycle each day much quicker than bus and car. Electric bikes becoming more available should help the fact we've so many hills

[Peevemor]

Unless things have changed for the worse since I left, I really don't understand people complaining about Edinburgh's public transport provision.

I lived in Kingsknowe/Longstone until I was in my early 20s. I went to school in Oxgangs, went to pipe band practices in Balerno, Danderhall & Granton and worked in York Place, Melville Street then Bernard Street in Leith. I was obviously back and forth to Easter Road and was also a regular at the speedway at Powderhall.

All places I went to very regularly and all without a car. I managed fine.

[ACLeith]

Unless things have changed for the worse since I left, I really don't understand people complaining about Edinburgh's public transport provision.

I lived in Kingsknowe/Longstone until I was in my early 20s. I went to school in Oxgangs, went to pipe band practices in Balerno, Danderhall & Granton and worked in York Place, Melville Street then Bernard Street in Leith. I was obviously back and forth to Easter Road and was also a regular at the speedway at Powderhall.

All places I went to very regularly and all without a car. I managed fine.

Don't want to repeat what I commented on earlier on the thread, but I stand by those comments. Particularly bad for those who cannot walk far after getting off the bus.

[Pretty Boy]

I managed without a car when I was single and most of my social life was centered on football, bevvy and meeting girls.

With a family I would hesitate to say I need a car but it certainly makes life a lot easier and opens up a lot more opportunities for all of us. I say that as someone who walks a 13 mile round trip to work at least twice a week so it's certainly not laziness.

[Ozyhibby]

As well as tackling climate change this is also about cleaning the air locally as well. We all have to breathe in this city and it’s for the benefit of everyone that schemes like this are implemented.
I don’t think it’s overly harsh to give everyone three years notice to make sure your car isn’t more than 18 years old if it’s petrol or nine year old if it’s diesel.


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[H18 SFR]

We live in a house with no possibility of having a drive way. Is there any legal way we can install a charge point submersed into the roadside or pavement outside our house? The idea of an electric car is growing on me but it would be impossible to charge. The nearest public charge point is over 2 miles away.

[Ozyhibby]

We live in a house with no possibility of having a drive way. Is there any legal way we can install a charge point submersed into the roadside or pavement outside our house? The idea of an electric car is growing on me but it would be impossible to charge. The nearest public charge point is over 2 miles away.

Remember that the newest cars have up to a 300 mile range. You would only need to charge once a week so it may not be such a big deal to go to a charging station?


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[H18 SFR]

Remember that the newest cars have up to a 300 mile range. You would only need to charge once a week so it may not be such a big deal to go to a charging station?


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I’m a 200 mile round trip to Easter Road, I’d definitely be charging more than once a week 😂😂

[Mr Grieves]

I suppose we can’t keep talking about climate change targets without actually taking action that affects day to day life. Good decision.


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You're spot on. And further unpopular, controversial, inconvenient measures will need to happen.

[neil7908]

Unless things have changed for the worse since I left, I really don't understand people complaining about Edinburgh's public transport provision.

I lived in Kingsknowe/Longstone until I was in my early 20s. I went to school in Oxgangs, went to pipe band practices in Balerno, Danderhall & Granton and worked in York Place, Melville Street then Bernard Street in Leith. I was obviously back and forth to Easter Road and was also a regular at the speedway at Powderhall.

All places I went to very regularly and all without a car. I managed fine.

Spot on. What I would add is that there are far too many cars now in Edinburgh. A common refrain is how long public transport takes. But people taking their car into busy, congested areas of the city is why buses are taking longer. Edinburgh is not a new city, large parts of it have not been designed for mass car ownership so we need to look at how many vehicles are on the road, and reducing these to make way for buses, walking, cycling etc is key for the environment, health and a more enjoyable city centre.

I'll admit I do have sympathy for diesel owners that bought a few years ago because they were told it was better for the environment. They have been shafted and the car companies have got off very lightly given how disgracefully they behaved.

[Colr]

Lack of charging points is holding back ev more. Loads of people round here would change and their ideal for short city journeys but not many have parking in their own garage or forecourt.

Hounslow are doing good work adding charging points to lamp posts but too often our short sighted politicians try to tax us into changing but not to invest in the infrastructure to speed up change.

[Antifa Hibs]

Subsidising cars is no way to combat climate change.


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Yet thats exactly whats happening just now for those who can afford a £35,000 EV....

Another tax on the poor. The motoring industry have done a superb job into tricking the middle classes and governments and councils into thinking they're being environmentally conscious by leasing a brand new Tesla every 3 year.

Public transport and active travel (walking and cycling) need to be the priority which car access should be restricted for everyone wether your car is a £100k EV or a 500 quid 20 year sold saab.

[Just_Jimmy]

Yet thats exactly whats happening just now for those who can afford a £35,000 EV....

Another tax on the poor. The motoring industry have done a superb job into tricking the middle classes and governments and councils into thinking they're being environmentally conscious by leasing a brand new Tesla every 3 year.

Public transport and active travel (walking and cycling) need to be the priority which car access should be restricted for everyone wether your car is a £100k EV or a 500 quid 20 year sold saab.not everybody needs a car for a 2 mile trip each day. not everyone works a pattern that allows public transport.

until public transport is hugely improved in this country and much cheaper across the board then cars will be here to stay like it or not.

thats before we even consider those that live in small towns or villages with 1 bus in and one bus out each day.

and the railnet work cost is huge and the cost of rail travel is frankly ridiculous.

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[Northernhibee]

A policy that does nothing to address the problem, affects the poorest the most and allows politicians to pat themselves on the back.

My car cost me £600. It’s economical, can get the dog in the back and any damage it does doesn’t affect me, but with fuel, tax, insurance and maintenance costs me £125 a month to keep going. Getting to my work seventeen miles away takes 35 minutes and I can go anywhere with it.

If I was to take the bus, thanks to the ****ing idiotic way that Dundee runs their buses Id need a monthly bus pass for Xplore Dundee buses and also one for Stagecoach as I work on the other side of the bridge. Because of this there’s no monthly ticket for my point A to point B so I’d need one that covers the whole of the East of Scotland. It would take over an hour to get to work and on certain evenings over an hour and a half to get home.

I would have to pay around £200 a month to use the buses.

It doesn’t take into account the way in which cars are produced - it’s not a case of “an order has come in, throw another car on the production line” - they produce as many as they can, ship them out to showrooms and if an order comes in they will change one of their build slots to that spec. The carbon cost of this is colossal.

When I buy my used cars, I use salvage yards to get existing parts which doesn’t result in additional carbon cost. When I sell them they go to a salvage yard to be stripped for more parts again. Still creates carbon but is a good way of doing it.

I could go and get a car on finance but with an uncertain economy it’s a trrrible plan to get lots of people onto leasing and finance. Also if the dog chews up the back then I have a large bill to pay.

The issue is public transport - make it as good, reliable and affordable as on the continent and you solve a huge part of the problem. A ULEZ fixes nothing but is a policy that makes those that implement it look like Tories - spend a lot of money, screw the poor, fix nothing.

[Antifa Hibs]

not everybody needs a car for a 2 mile trip each day. not everyone works a pattern that allows public transport.

until public transport is hugely improved in this country and much cheaper across the board then cars will be here to stay like it or not.

thats before we even consider those that live in small towns or villages with 1 bus in and one bus out each day.

and the railnet work cost is huge and the cost of rail travel is frankly ridiculous.

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No-ones campaigning to ban cars outright. Cars are here to stay and no-ones denying that. The industry is worth to much to the economy and GDP (thats the main thing here for politicians) and the way society has changed with out of town shopping, leisure and housing estates etc etc.

BUT - in our largest cities car use does need to decrease and we need a bigger shift to public transport and active transport. We've already seen car use decrease in London and Paris with their penalties on car owners/drivers and a shift to public transport (granted they have the infrastructure in place).

We'll see how serious governments and councils are and if they're going to invest heavily in public transport or if they're just happy ticking boxes to keep the climate lobbyists at bay...

[Antifa Hibs]

A policy that does nothing to address the problem, affects the poorest the most and allows politicians to pat themselves on the back.

My car cost me £600. It’s economical, can get the dog in the back and any damage it does doesn’t affect me, but with fuel, tax, insurance and maintenance costs me £125 a month to keep going. Getting to my work seventeen miles away takes 35 minutes and I can go anywhere with it.

If I was to take the bus, thanks to the ****ing idiotic way that Dundee runs their buses Id need a monthly bus pass for Xplore Dundee buses and also one for Stagecoach as I work on the other side of the bridge. Because of this there’s no monthly ticket for my point A to point B so I’d need one that covers the whole of the East of Scotland. It would take over an hour to get to work and on certain evenings over an hour and a half to get home.

I would have to pay around £200 a month to use the buses.

It doesn’t take into account the way in which cars are produced - it’s not a case of “an order has come in, throw another car on the production line” - they produce as many as they can, ship them out to showrooms and if an order comes in they will change one of their build slots to that spec. The carbon cost of this is colossal.

When I buy my used cars, I use salvage yards to get existing parts which doesn’t result in additional carbon cost. When I sell them they go to a salvage yard to be stripped for more parts again. Still creates carbon but is a good way of doing it.

I could go and get a car on finance but with an uncertain economy it’s a trrrible plan to get lots of people onto leasing and finance. Also if the dog chews up the back then I have a large bill to pay.

The issue is public transport - make it as good, reliable and affordable as on the continent and you solve a huge part of the problem. A ULEZ fixes nothing but is a policy that makes those that implement it look like Tories - spend a lot of money, screw the poor, fix nothing.


I agree with the car thing, my current car is a 2005 and working perfectly well. Like yourself if it needs anything done or replaced i'll get it from the scrappies or ebay. According to the council though for me to be environmentally sound though I should be scrapping a perfectly good working car and replacing it with something else. Not sure how that works.


I disagree however with the public transport thing in the continent. In the major cities (Madrid, Milan, Paris, Berlin etc etc) public transport is superb as it is in London. However long distance travel i've found to be just as expensive here as it is in the majority of Europe, granted the trains are probably newer, quieter and faster.

I was looking at weekend to Paris. Always fancied the eurostar. The time didn't bother me 'cos i'm a bit of a geek for rail travel but Edinburgh to Kings Cross then Euston to Paris was about £550 return. I could fly to San Fran or Vegas cheaper...

[Smartie]

I agree with the car thing, my current car is a 2005 and working perfectly well. Like yourself if it needs anything done or replaced i'll get it from the scrappies or ebay. According to the council though for me to be environmentally sound though I should be scrapping a perfectly good working car and replacing it with something else. Not sure how that works.


I disagree however with the public transport thing in the continent. In the major cities (Madrid, Milan, Paris, Berlin etc etc) public transport is superb as it is in London. However long distance travel i've found to be just as expensive here as it is in the majority of Europe, granted the trains are probably newer, quieter and faster.

I was looking at weekend to Paris. Always fancied the eurostar. The time didn't bother me 'cos i'm a bit of a geek for rail travel but Edinburgh to Kings Cross then Euston to Paris was about £550 return. I could fly to San Fran or Vegas cheaper...

I love travelling by train but I also find the cost prohibitive at times.

Is there a good reason why it's so expensive in this country, relative to similar in other nations?

[Peevemor]

I love travelling by train but I also find the cost prohibitive at times.

Is there a good reason why it's so expensive in this country, relative to similar in other nations?It's expensive in France too. A return ticket for Paris for me (about 2½ hours) will cost £100-150 off peak.

[Pretty Boy]

I love travelling by train but I also find the cost prohibitive at times.

Is there a good reason why it's so expensive in this country, relative to similar in other nations?

I love the train too but the pricing can be ridiculous. We used to get the train down to visit my partners parents, Edinburgh to Newark, and it was getting to £250-£300 return for the 2 of us. A couple of tanks of fuel is £125ish for me, I can't turn down £125+ in savings. My mum was looking to book for Leicester the other week, admittedly it was last minute, and the cheapest price was £550 return for 2 people. That's absolutely mental and no one in their right mind who has a car sitting in the drive is going to pay it.

[Northernhibee]

I love the train too but the pricing can be ridiculous. We used to get the train down to visit my partners parents, Edinburgh to Newark, and it was getting to £250-£300 return for the 2 of us. A couple of tanks of fuel is £125ish for me, I can't turn down £125+ in savings. My mum was looking to book for Leicester the other week, admittedly it was last minute, and the cheapest price was £550 return for 2 people. That's absolutely mental and no one in their right mind who has a car sitting in the drive is going to pay it.

There’s an advert in the local bus stops that reads “taking the bus can be cheaper than taking the car!”.

The fact that it’s “can be” and not “is” completely misses the point, and also doesn’t address how spectacularly unreliable they are here.

[The_Exile]

Drastic action is needed, the planet is on fire FFS. If that means I can't dive my car somewhere then so be it, the planet is much more important than my convenience.

[Stairway 2 7]

Drastic action is needed, the planet is on fire FFS. If that means I can't dive my car somewhere then so be it, the planet is much more important than my convenience.

Guess you don't need a car to make a living

[Just Alf]

Guess you don't need a car to make a livingTo be fair, what it really means is use public transport where ever possible and revert to your car when there's no choice.

Some folks will, for a number of reasons not be able to use public transport while many others could use it more than they do currently.

FWIW, in Edinburgh, the buses are brilliant when you also use the app to help with your journey.

That said if we are to rely on them more then they need to deal with gaps in areas served as ACLeith pointed out and also the times they're on, I had to get up at half 6 this morning to take my daughter to work, works in an old folks home, and she tells me most of the other staff are similar (there's a fair few cars dropping off and picking up when I'm there)

Ps, if it was on, she could use the 38 but it doesn't start early enough at the weekend and it serves 2 hospitals!




.

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[Stairway 2 7]

To be fair, what it really means is use public transport where ever possible and revert to your car when there's no choice.

Some folks will, for a number of reasons not be able to use public transport while many others could use it more than they do currently.

FWIW, in Edinburgh, the buses are brilliant when you also use the app to help with your journey.

That said if we are to rely on them more then they need to deal with gaps in areas served as ACLeith pointed out and also the times they're on, I had to get up at half 6 this morning to take my daughter to work, works in an old folks home, and she tells me most of the other staff are similar (there's a fair few cars dropping off and picking up when I'm there)

Ps, if it was on, she could use the 38 but it doesn't start early enough at the weekend and it serves 2 hospitals!




.

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I agree totally we all need to use less. People taking kids to school in car 5 minutes walk away ect is ridiculous

[Northernhibee]

I agree with the car thing, my current car is a 2005 and working perfectly well. Like yourself if it needs anything done or replaced i'll get it from the scrappies or ebay. According to the council though for me to be environmentally sound though I should be scrapping a perfectly good working car and replacing it with something else. Not sure how that works.


I disagree however with the public transport thing in the continent. In the major cities (Madrid, Milan, Paris, Berlin etc etc) public transport is superb as it is in London. However long distance travel i've found to be just as expensive here as it is in the majority of Europe, granted the trains are probably newer, quieter and faster.

I was looking at weekend to Paris. Always fancied the eurostar. The time didn't bother me 'cos i'm a bit of a geek for rail travel but Edinburgh to Kings Cross then Euston to Paris was about £550 return. I could fly to San Fran or Vegas cheaper...

Problem is that if you don’t fix public transport being massively less convenient and notably more expensive than taking the car, people won’t change their habits. I can’t afford an extra £80 a month and an extra 90 minutes commuting a day. I walk wherever possible but can’t walk eighteen miles to work.

A ULEZ doesn’t tackle the issue of why people use the car when there is public transport. It just makes a private company put in charge of managing it wealthy and screws over the most vulnerable.

[Ozyhibby]

Problem is that if you don’t fix public transport being massively less convenient and notably more expensive than taking the car, people won’t change their habits. I can’t afford an extra £80 a month and an extra 90 minutes commuting a day. I walk wherever possible but can’t walk eighteen miles to work.

A ULEZ doesn’t tackle the issue of why people use the car when there is public transport. It just makes a private company put in charge of managing it wealthy and screws over the most vulnerable.

Surely if you work 18 miles away then you can easily avoid the city centre?


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[Northernhibee]

Surely if you work 18 miles away then you can easily avoid the city centre?


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Depends how close to the Tay Bridge that the ULEZ extends to.

Either way, it’ll either be largely ineffective and fail in its aims or mean I have to take a large detour.

It just doesn’t work.

[Ozyhibby]

Depends how close to the Tay Bridge that the ULEZ extends to.

Either way, it’ll either be largely ineffective and fail in its aims or mean I have to take a large detour.

It just doesn’t work.

I wouldn’t say it doesn’t work. I think a lot of people will be switching to EV’s in the run up to introduction and if that’s the case then it will work just fine?


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[Hibs Class]

Remember that the newest cars have up to a 300 mile range. You would only need to charge once a week so it may not be such a big deal to go to a charging station?


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Any idea how long it takes to do a full charge at a charging station, i.e. is it short enough that you can wait?

[Ozyhibby]

Any idea how long it takes to do a full charge at a charging station, i.e. is it short enough that you can wait?

About 30mins gets you to 80%, so about 240miles on a 300m range car.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Any idea how long it takes to do a full charge at a charging station, i.e. is it short enough that you can wait?

Fast charging at most service areas will charge to 80% in the time it takes to go and buy and drink a cup of coffee and eat a muffin then go to the loo. (about 40 minutes) but lots of factors to take account of, how low the battery is, how large the capacity is, how fast the car will charge.

[marinello59]

Anybody here got a Hybrid vehicle? Looks like a decent half way house between my current diesel which needs replaced and going fully electric.

[Stairway 2 7]

Fast charging at most service areas will charge to 80% in the time it takes to go and buy and drink a cup of coffee and eat a muffin then go to the loo. (about 40 minutes) but lots of factors to take account of, how low the battery is, how large the capacity is, how fast the car will charge.

Hopefully this speeds up in the future as that is quite long. Maybe maybe more charging points at supermarkets as won't be tied to going to petrol stations anymore

[Northernhibee]

Anybody here got a Hybrid vehicle? Looks like a decent half way house between my current diesel which needs replaced and going fully electric.

My partner has a hybrid Corolla. Brilliant to begin with and was getting 60mpg but after two years of wear on the battery it’s down to 54mpg already.

[Northernhibee]

I wouldn’t say it doesn’t work. I think a lot of people will be switching to EV’s in the run up to introduction and if that’s the case then it will work just fine?


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If it doesn’t affect a lot of people then there wouldn’t be a need to switch to electric. If it does then you’re screwing over the poor without massive infrastructure investment in terms of public transport.

It’s attacking a symptom rather than the cause.

[marinello59]

My partner has a hybrid Corolla. Brilliant to begin with and was getting 60mpg but after two years of wear on the battery it’s down to 54mpg already.

That’s quite a drop off so quickly. Has that involved a lot of town driving?

[Northernhibee]

That’s quite a drop off so quickly. Has that involved a lot of town driving?

About five thousand miles per annum, a lot of it dual carriageway.

If that’s indicative of what we can expect from an EV battery then the things will depreciate like a stone.

[Moulin Yarns]

If it doesn’t affect a lot of people then there wouldn’t be a need to switch to electric. If it does then you’re screwing over the poor without massive infrastructure investment in terms of public transport.

It’s attacking a symptom rather than the cause.

There is a need to switch to electric vehicles. We wouldn't be having this thread otherwise.


The sale of ICE vehicles is to be banned in less than 9 years from now.

[Northernhibee]

There is a need to switch to electric vehicles. We wouldn't be having this thread otherwise.


The sale of ICE vehicles is to be banned in less than 9 years from now.
There is a need to reduce the amount of cars on the road and get people using public transport. To make it viable there needs to be affordable new and used EV cars and the technology is not there yet, the lifespan of the batteries is quite frankly poor.

Affordable, efficient, clean and reliable public transport solves more problems than installing a few charging points in car parks.

[Moulin Yarns]

About five thousand miles per annum, a lot of it dual carriageway.

If that’s indicative of what we can expect from an EV battery then the things will depreciate like a stone.

Technology is speeding along. The Chinese already have, and plan, a huge network of battery exchange stations. This will take the same amount of time to fill your fossil fuel tank. I imagine that you will rent batteries, Renault already do this with the Zoe.

A mix of fast charging points in every supermarket, retail park, out of town leisure centres as well as the battery exchange points by then would be a good way forward.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is a need to reduce the amount of cars on the road and get people using public transport. To make it viable there needs to be affordable new and used EV cars and the technology is not there yet, the lifespan of the batteries is quite frankly poor.

Affordable, efficient, clean and reliable public transport solves more problems than installing a few charging points in car parks.

I agree with public transport, but there is no way private transport companies such as Stagecoach will offer affordable prices. A rival ran buses from dunkeld and Bankfoot undercutting them, all stagecoach did was run buses 5 minutes either side to soak up the passengers and the rival went bust.

[Northernhibee]

Technology is speeding along. The Chinese already have, and plan, a huge network of battery exchange stations. This will take the same amount of time to fill your fossil fuel tank. I imagine that you will rent batteries, Renault already do this with the Zoe.

A mix of fast charging points in every supermarket, retail park, out of town leisure centres as well as the battery exchange points by then would be a good way forward.

Problem is for people that cannot afford car finance, they will need to buy an old EV car. Repair costs are high, range and recharging time will be affected with time and they’ll still be competitively expensive.

Then there’s the environmental cost of new batteries and the processing of old ones.

Can see it a mile off. A token “scrap your old car for a grand” sort of scheme that doesn’t help those that can’t get finance or can’t afford an EV, same pathetic public transport service outside the two biggest cities.

[Peevemor]

Problem is for people that cannot afford car finance, they will need to buy an old EV car. Repair costs are high, range and recharging time will be affected with time and they’ll still be competitively expensive.

Then there’s the environmental cost of new batteries and the processing of old ones.

Can see it a mile off. A token “scrap your old car for a grand” sort of scheme that doesn’t help those that can’t get finance or can’t afford an EV, same pathetic public transport service outside the two biggest cities.

And does the national grid/electricity supply network have the necessary capacity?

[Andy Bee]

The Norwegian Government have heavily subsidised the price of EV's, IIRC they've cut VAT on new cars and basically brought the price to below the price of a comparative ICE model. The outcome is they're now selling more than ICE vehicles now and that's from a starting point similar to the UK. 88% of cars sold in March were either full EV or plugin hybrid, 54% of cars on the road were electric of some kind so it's certainly doable. They plan on stopping selling ICE vehicles in 2025 which is impressive so I can't see why we couldn't do the same. The UK is 6.6% so something needs done on the infrastructure and the price of EV cars.

[marinello59]

About five thousand miles per annum, a lot of it dual carriageway.

If that’s indicative of what we can expect from an EV battery then the things will depreciate like a stone.

That probably explains why the lease prices I am seeing at more than I expected. It’s still the way I’ll probably go though.

[Ozyhibby]

The Norwegian Government have heavily subsidised the price of EV's, IIRC they've cut VAT on new cars and basically brought the price to below the price of a comparative ICE model. The outcome is they're now selling more than ICE vehicles now and that's from a starting point similar to the UK. 88% of cars sold in March were either full EV or plugin hybrid, 54% of cars on the road were electric of some kind so it's certainly doable. They plan on stopping selling ICE vehicles in 2025 which is impressive so I can't see why we couldn't do the same. The UK is 6.6% so something needs done on the infrastructure and the price of EV cars.

How do they manage that without the broad shoulders of the UK govt?


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[Stairway 2 7]

I agree with public transport, but there is no way private transport companies such as Stagecoach will offer affordable prices. A rival ran buses from dunkeld and Bankfoot undercutting them, all stagecoach did was run buses 5 minutes either side to soak up the passengers and the rival went bust.
Souter is a horrible man

[Andy Bee]

How do they manage that without the broad shoulders of the UK govt?


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Erm.......didn't they have lots of that oil stuff that they banked the profits from and created a global investment fund which pays for all these lovely little perks they enjoy. I wonder if the UK could do the same :hmmm::greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Problem is for people that cannot afford car finance, they will need to buy an old EV car. Repair costs are high, range and recharging time will be affected with time and they’ll still be competitively expensive.

Then there’s the environmental cost of new batteries and the processing of old ones.

Can see it a mile off. A token “scrap your old car for a grand” sort of scheme that doesn’t help those that can’t get finance or can’t afford an EV, same pathetic public transport service outside the two biggest cities.

What repair cost for an EV are higher than a fossil fuel car? Every EV I have looked at is a 24 month service interval with air filters, brakes and windscreen wipers about the only things needing replaced.

[Ozyhibby]

What repair cost for an EV are higher than a fossil fuel car? Every EV I have looked at is a 24 month service interval with air filters, brakes and windscreen wipers about the only things needing replaced.

I’m no mechanic but I would imagine repair bills for EV’s will be a lot smaller than for ICE cars?


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[Just Alf]

Pretty sure "day to day in life" running costs for an EV are much cheaper than petrol/diesel, I think the jury's out on a the car's next stage in life.

Those of us that would happily buy second hand and keep a car on the road might find cost of replacement batteries etc makes that an uneconomic path to take.

[Northernhibee]

I’m no mechanic but I would imagine repair bills for EV’s will be a lot smaller than for ICE cars?


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Mechanics that I know seem to think that major repairs would be pricey, I used to work in the trade.

It’s fair to say that bias may be a part in that, but they think you’re cheaper with an ICE.

[Moulin Yarns]

Mechanics that I know seem to think that major repairs would be pricey, I used to work in the trade.

It’s fair to say that bias may be a part in that, but they think you’re cheaper with an ICE.

There are less mechanical parts to fix in an EV compared to a ICE though and service intervals are 24 months rather than 12. Define a major repair, putting the wrong type of electricity into the battery? :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

There are less mechanical parts to fix in an EV compared to a ICE though

The little tape playing loud "brrm brrm" sounds to minimise the number of pedestrians and cyclists getting mown down by EVs will need replacing every so often.

[Northernhibee]

There are less mechanical parts to fix in an EV compared to a ICE though and service intervals are 24 months rather than 12. Define a major repair, putting the wrong type of electricity into the battery? :wink:

https://electrade.app/blog/are-electric-vehicles-truly-more-expensive-to-repair/

Like for like costs for repairing an EV compared to an ICE are higher by 5-8%. Servicing costs are lower, but in an accident it’s very commonplace for a damaged battery to require a full replacement which is expensive.

[Moulin Yarns]

The little tape playing loud "brrm brrm" sounds to minimise the number of pedestrians and cyclists getting mown down by EVs will need replacing every so often.

That'll be a download of a new MP3 file, EVs are higher tech than you think :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

https://electrade.app/blog/are-electric-vehicles-truly-more-expensive-to-repair/

Like for like costs for repairing an EV compared to an ICE are higher by 5-8%. Servicing costs are lower, but in an accident it’s very commonplace for a damaged battery to require a full replacement which is expensive.

Simple answer, don't have an accident :greengrin That's what you pay insurance for anyway. But mechanical faults are less than ICE vehicles. Glad we agree on something :wink:

[Northernhibee]

Simple answer, don't have an accident :greengrin That's what you pay insurance for anyway. But mechanical faults are less than ICE vehicles. Glad we agree on something :wink:

No, a similar repair will be 5-8% higher on an EV than ICE for a fault, as per the article. The initial vehicle cost is also higher and from experience with the BMW group, the ones we had were quite often spectacularly unreliable.

All fine within warranty, but outwith it it can’t be avoided, no matter how smug you try to act.

[Moulin Yarns]

No, a similar repair will be 5-8% higher on an EV than ICE for a fault, as per the article. The initial vehicle cost is also higher and from experience with the BMW group, the ones we had were quite often spectacularly unreliable.

All fine within warranty, but outwith it it can’t be avoided, no matter how smug you try to act.

The article is about damage repairs, I didn't see anything about servicing. :confused:

[Northernhibee]

The article is about damage repairs, I didn't see anything about servicing. :confused:

I was initially talking about repair costs, you were the one who started talking about servicing.

The price of fish and chips has gone up, do you want to talk about that too seeing as how it’s also not the initial point I brought up?

[Moulin Yarns]

I was initially talking about repair costs, you were the one who started talking about servicing.

The price of fish and chips has gone up, do you want to talk about that too seeing as how it’s also not the initial point I brought up?



No, a similar repair will be 5-8% higher on an EV than ICE for a fault, as per the article. The initial vehicle cost is also higher and from experience with the BMW group, the ones we had were quite often spectacularly unreliable.

All fine within warranty, but outwith it it can’t be avoided, no matter how smug you try to act.

Yes, and I answered that, very simply, by law you must be insured against the cost of repairs, and you only need a repair if you are in an accident! Very easy way to avoid repair bills, avoid accidents. In which case, servicing of the mechanics of an EV is less than an ICE

[Northernhibee]

Yes, and I answered that, very simply, by law you must be insured against the cost of repairs, and you only need a repair if you are in an accident! Very easy way to avoid repair bills, avoid accidents. In which case, servicing of the mechanics of an EV is less than an ICE

😂 “Avoid accidents”. So if someone slams into your parked car when you’re elsewhere, that’s somehow your fault?

[Moulin Yarns]

😂 “Avoid accidents”. So if someone slams into your parked car when you’re elsewhere, that’s somehow your fault?

I get it, you don't like electric cars and are happy to drive a banger, you will still be able to do that but it will become more difficult as more ICE cars are removed from the market. The technology now will be ancient history in 10 years time and even you will be driving an EV in 20 years time.

Anyway, we agree that public transport should be better, but it's unlikely.

[Northernhibee]

I get it, you don't like electric cars and are happy to drive a banger, you will still be able to do that but it will become more difficult as more ICE cars are removed from the market. The technology now will be ancient history in 10 years time and even you will be driving an EV in 20 years time.

Anyway, we agree that public transport should be better, but it's unlikely.

I would actually have an electric car - but they need to improve further before they’re a consideration. We also need to make sure we’re not screwing the poor who rely on a car over as that’s a sheer Tory policy.

[speedy_gonzales]

Re accidents, a BMW I(something) crashed through the car park wall at McDonalds Corstorphine a few weeks back and landed on Gylemuir Road. There was a lot of police in attendance and it took an age to deal with as they've been instructed to not move electric cars after they've been in an accident of there's any chance the battery could have been compromised.
Anyone that's been in the fire service or done any kind of fire training will know that electrical and metal fires are up there with the trickiest to deal with.

[Ozyhibby]

I would actually have an electric car - but they need to improve further before they’re a consideration. We also need to make sure we’re not screwing the poor who rely on a car over as that’s a sheer Tory policy.

We’ll be screwing the really poor if we don’t get to net zero.


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[Northernhibee]

We’ll be screwing the really poor if we don’t get to net zero.


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Indeed. But we also have to ensure that we get the infrastructure in place to be able to do so. ULEZ’s won’t do a thing about that.

[Moulin Yarns]

Indeed. But we also have to ensure that we get the infrastructure in place to be able to do so. ULEZ’s won’t do a thing about that.

On the infrastructure, if you know by my user name I live in rural highland Perthshire. I have 11 public charging points within 2 miles of home. It is possible to drive a tesla from lands end to John O'Groats quite easily, I've met 2 guys that did it last year.

[Moulin Yarns]

Indeed. But we also have to ensure that we get the infrastructure in place to be able to do so. ULEZ’s won’t do a thing about that.

And we are back on topic 👍😉

[Stairway 2 7]

On the infrastructure, if you know by my user name I live in rural highland Perthshire. I have 11 public charging points within 2 miles of home. It is possible to drive a tesla from lands end to John O'Groats quite easily, I've met 2 guys that did it last year.

They're very expensive. Price's need to fall, will help when there is a bigger pool of second hand ec

[Moulin Yarns]

They're very expensive. Price's need to fall, will help when there is a bigger pool of second hand ec

Agreed that tesla is very expensive, I just used that as the example of the charging network being capable of supporting a land's end to John O'Groats trip.


Now, back to the low emissions zone. It is being implemented to combat air pollution and has nothing to do with any attempt to force people to buy electric vehicles.

Any car that doesn't meet Euro6 emissions criteria will be banned from the zone , or fined if they enter the zone from 2023. An example is my 2014 diesel which only meets Euro2 emissions.

[JeMeSouviens]

If anyone else was wondering, you can check your "Euro" rating here - https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/

My 5yo diesel golf is Euro 6 - yay!

I'm quite keen on an EV, but the golf has only done 50k miles, is running fine and averages about 60mpg, so I'll wait a few more years. Hopefully, there'll be a 500 mile range replacement by then.

[Ozyhibby]

If anyone else was wondering, you can check your "Euro" rating here - https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/

My 5yo diesel golf is Euro 6 - yay!

I'm quite keen on an EV, but the golf has only done 50k miles, is running fine and averages about 60mpg, so I'll wait a few more years. Hopefully, there'll be a 500 mile range replacement by then.

There is a Chinese company testing a 1000 mile range battery just now. It won’t be long before the 500 mile mark is surpassed.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.lowemissionzones.scot/about/local-zones/edinburgh


More on the proposal for Edinburgh low emission zone.

[JeMeSouviens]

There is a Chinese company testing a 1000 mile range battery just now. It won’t be long before the 500 mile mark is surpassed.


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Yes, I think we're at the 56k modem stage of development. Broadband coming soon I hope.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes, I think we're at the 56k modem stage of development. Broadband coming soon I hope.

As good an analogy as any. Early personal computers 30 or so years ago was what I was thinking, we are at the 8" floppy disk stage.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.ft.com/content/eeba6823-bffc-4f96-8f98-5722c7db43f6

Battery factories planned for the UK

[McD]

If anyone else was wondering, you can check your "Euro" rating here - https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/

My 5yo diesel golf is Euro 6 - yay!

I'm quite keen on an EV, but the golf has only done 50k miles, is running fine and averages about 60mpg, so I'll wait a few more years. Hopefully, there'll be a 500 mile range replacement by then.


thanks for this, my 5 year old insignia is also euro 6, only done 25k so not wanting to replace anytime soon


for my tuppence worth, I have a 22 mile journey each way for work, which is roughly 30 minutes going to work and about 40-45 coming home. To do this on public transport would either be a train and bus each way, or 2 buses (I think). Those journeys would probably take an hour plus, more like 2 plus if I got the 2 buses option. That’s just not feasible for child care, not to mention a massively increased cost on a daily basis.

it’s also impossible for me to install a charge point at home (no driveway and shared parking with neighbours so can’t guarantee a specific space), and no charge point at my workplace currently.

I’d be more than happy to drive an electric car, but the cost (unrealistic at the moment) and charging capabilities make it impossible just now.


as a general query, for anyone who has an electric car, what’s the relative cost to run in comparison to a diesel/petrol car?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/georgefergusonx/status/1406198494470287362?s=21


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/georgefergusonx/status/1406198494470287362?s=21


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I prefer this, so it was the same rule for everyone not just those that can afford it.

[Peevemor]

https://twitter.com/georgefergusonx/status/1406198494470287362?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis isn't purely a "green" initiative. Parisiens have fallen out of love with the Champs-Elysees and the only ones that go on even a semi regular basis either live or work there. Over 80% of the pedestrian traffic is tourists. It's probably a bit like the Lawmarket in Edinburgh, but instead of being full of Gold brothers tartan tat, it's all luxury boutiques including supercar dealerships.

Basically Paris has to rejuvenate "les Champs" which is slowly losing it's lustre.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4PWzK9bbz8rRLDmXWsG8xG5/is-it-finally-time-to-ditch-petrol-and-diesel-and-buy-an-electric-car

Well worth a listen to the podcast.

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/georgefergusonx/status/1406198494470287362?s=21


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Could you image the uproar if ECC proposed something like this for George Street. Removed the central parking bays and replaced with planted trees and green space. The Evening News readers would be out for blood.

[Moulin Yarns]

Could you image the uproar if ECC proposed something like this for George Street. Removed the central parking bays and replaced with planted trees and green space. The Evening News readers would be out for blood.

https://www.scottishconstructionnow.com/article/in-pictures-car-free-vision-unveiled-for-edinburgh-s-george-street

You mean this from February 😁

[Lendo]

https://www.scottishconstructionnow.com/article/in-pictures-car-free-vision-unveiled-for-edinburgh-s-george-street

You mean this from February 😁

That looks fantastic!

[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/22/welsh-government-to-suspend-all-future-road-building-plans?__twitter_impression=true

The quest for net zero require real world changes of direction. Well done Wales.


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