Martin Boyle - Nepal Red Card

[ddoc]

Watched it a few times and still can’t make my mind up if it was a dive or not. You see that sort of tussle between forwards and defenders constantly.
Great pass from Irvine for Boyle’s goal. I hope they are both at ER when the season

https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE (https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE)

Added the link for the goals.
https://youtu.be/tGCSNO1R9yA

[Winston Ingram]

3.45 is the Boyle’s goal

[hibee-boys]

It was a dive, there was clear contact but not enough to make him go down. I guess under the letter of the law it was a foul but a foul can be awarded without throwing yourself down to the ground. A foul? Yes, but I just don’t like to see that sort of behaviour from any player let alone one of our own.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's a new phenomenon thats seems to just affect footballers, a tug on their shoulder seems to affect their ability to keep the use of their legs.

[BoomtownHibees]

It was a dive, there was clear contact but not enough to make him go down. I guess under the letter of the law it was a foul but a foul can be awarded without throwing yourself down to the ground. A foul? Yes, but I just don’t like to see that sort of behaviour from any player let alone one of our own.

So it was a dive, there was clear contact and it was a foul? You could get a job in Scotland as a referee

[04Sauzee]

Never a dive in it's life , you can see his feet give way in the turf when contact is made.

[madhatter]

Foul followed by a dive.

Can’t always blame the players for diving. Fans and managers are the first to say “Go down”.

[calumhibee1]

It was a dive, there was clear contact but not enough to make him go down. I guess under the letter of the law it was a foul but a foul can be awarded without throwing yourself down to the ground. A foul? Yes, but I just don’t like to see that sort of behaviour from any player let alone one of our own.

Whilst I’d agree, I’d agree with what madhatter says. You can’t blame the players for going down. Half the time it’s the only way they get the foul.

[Pretty Boy]

The physical contact doesn't make him go down so I suppose that means it is a dive.

However players are forced into this kind of action because referees just don't give fouls if the player doesn't go down. You see it repeatedly, players kicked, pushed, pulled and whatever else. They try to stay on their feet and the ref let's the foul go regardless of whether there actually is an advantage.

It's a calculated risk for players. Go down under contact and you might get the foul you should have got anyway, trade that off against the odd booking.

[Forza Fred]

Surely the important question that should be asked is..

Was it a foul or not?

I saw a clear tug on his shoulder on a different video which I called as a foul.

Whether Martin fell to the ground at that point, or jumped in the air isn’t really relevant...it’s still a foul.

FWIW...The first video shows...to me at least, Martin continuing for a couple of paces before his right foot buckles and he ends up on the deck.

My definition of a ‘dive’ is more where a player deliberately tries to deceive a ref into awarding a free kick/penalty where no foul play occurred.

In this instance it was a clear foul.

[Peevemor]

Why would he dive when they were comfortable at 2-0?

He definitely lost his footing - his right foot slipped out from under him. I'm not sure it was caused by the contact though, but he did immediately look to the ref when he went down.

[Forza Fred]

Why would he dive when they were comfortable at 2-0?

He definitely lost his footing - his right foot slipped out from under him. I'm not sure it was caused by the contact though, but he did immediately look to the ref when he went down.

Travelling at speed the Nepalese guy tugged his shoulder...not a huge tug..but a tug nevertheless.

[heretoday]

Face it. He's a diver. He's not the messiah!

[Forza Fred]

Face it. He's a diver. He's not the messiah!

Some may think you nailed it, others may be cross.

[blackpoolhibs]

Travelling at speed the Nepalese guy tugged his shoulder...not a huge tug..but a tug nevertheless.

I dont think anyone will argue against that Fred, but come on, why has he lost the ability to use his legs? :greengrin


I know why he's gone down, but for me it's a clear foul then a clear dive.

[Hibrandenburg]

Some may think you nailed it, others may be cross.

Jesus, not another pun thread.

[hibee-boys]

So it was a dive, there was clear contact and it was a foul? You could get a job in Scotland as a referee

Not rocket science really, the OP questioned whether it was a dive.....and it was. You can make contact with an individual without making them collapse to the ground. You do know that a foul can be awarded after contact without players diving? Bottom line is that Martin, in my opinion, made the choice to go down rather than finish the job.

[Eyrie]

Jesus, not another pun thread.

Heretoday is a very naughty boy.

[Eyrie]

My initial reaction was a dive because Boyle wasn't affected by the slight tug on his shoulder and had a couple more steps before he fell to his side which doesn't look natural.

But in the later replay from behind it looks more like his right foot slipped as he attempted to straighten his line, so it wasn't a dive. However Boyle appealing for the foul probably swayed the official's decision into thinking he deliberately went to ground.

My conclusion is neither a foul nor a dive.

However, as PB has pointed out, football's absolute failure to have a proper advantage rule encourages players to cheat. A defender can attempt a foul, knowing that if the attacker stays up no action will be taken whilst the attacker will go to ground for the same reason. Having an opponent on a booking which makes them more cautious for the rest of the game is generally more valuable than playing on with no certainty of creating a chance, let alone scoring a goal.

[neil7908]

He definitely loses his footing. That said, not sure there was enough contact in the first place to warrant a foul.

[Greenbeard]

That adds to his Tom Daley reputation. Does himself and us no favours tbh. Some real green-tinted comments on here.
Since when does a gentle touch become a tug? Not even a foul in my book. Absolutely no hindrance to Boyle caused by being touched on the shoulder and he only goes down two steps later when he realises the defender is getting in a position to challenge. If that sort of light touch contact with a hand on an opposite player is going to be a foul every time then we need to start playing the game with hands tied behind the back.

[The dalmeny]

Touch, pause step step , fall over

[04Sauzee]

That adds to his Tom Daley reputation. Does himself and us no favours tbh. Some real green-tinted comments on here.
Since when does a gentle touch become a tug? Not even a foul in my book. Absolutely no hindrance to Boyle caused by being touched on the shoulder and he only goes down two steps later when he realises the defender is getting in a position to challenge. If that sort of light touch contact with a hand on an opposite player is going to be a foul every time then we need to start playing the game with hands tied behind the back.
Green tinted specs because some are calling either a foul or can clearly see his feet give way in the ground. Nothing green tinted just isn't a dive in my opinion of course.

Which does Hibs or Him no harm.

[staunchhibby]

After watching it couple of times still unsure if was a dive or not

[ddoc]

Green tinted specs because some are calling either a foul or can clearly see his feet give way in the ground. Nothing green tinted just isn't a dive in my opinion of course.

Which does Hibs or Him no harm.

But what does harm Hibs is him having a rep as a diver. As a result of that, decisions that should go our way may subsequently not.

[CMurdoch]

A Hearts player going down in similar circumstances against Hibs and our player is sent off.
What would be the reaction on here?

Had a right to go down?
Can't decide if it was a foul or not?
Delayed reaction?
Hearts players always cheating?
Diver?
Ban?
Melt down?

[heretoday]

Heretoday is a very naughty boy.

Well! They're all at it nowadays aren't they? The idea that Boyle runs so fast that the merest featherlite touch is enough to send him flying is laughable. I don't recall Arthur diving about much except when he scored with that header in the 79 cup final replay. Oh god!

[Itsnoteasy]

Great pass from Irvine for Boyle’s goal. I hope they are both at ER when the season

After that cup final non performance I'm not fussed for either.

(https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE)

[Lago]

It's a new phenomenon thats seems to just affect footballers, a tug on their shoulder seems to affect their ability to keep the use of their legs.
And Boyle is rapidly getting a reputation for that phenomenon, unfortunately.

[Rumble de Thump]

If you're impeded while running at speed then there's a good chance you'll be knocked over or lose your footing. Martin has been given a reputation as a diver by the Scottish media and their poor analysis of slow motion replays, which give a very distorted impression of what's going on. Asian Cup referees probably don't watch Sportscene.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you're impeded while running at speed then there's a good chance you'll be knocked over or lose your footing. Martin has been given a reputation as a diver by the Scottish media and their poor analysis of slow motion replays, which give a very distorted impression of what's going on. Asian Cup referees probably don't watch Sportscene.

Nah not having that, it might seem as if i'm coming across as anti Martin Boyle, but that is not the case, in fact i wish he was with us in the Euros, he is a fantastic player when on form.

He does recently have a habit of going down easily, and from that video he clearly in my opinion is fouled then dived. He could have stayed on his feet, but decided not to.

[PatHead]

If we had a player sent off for the challenge on Boyle I would be going bananas.

[CentreLine]

Boyle had become a much better and more effective tube player when Neil Lennon was manager and cured him of his propensity for falling over. I can’t fathom why he has returned to those days of tumbling over at the slightest brush with an opponent

[hhibs]

Well! They're all at it nowadays aren't they? The idea that Boyle runs so fast that the merest featherlite touch is enough to send him flying is laughable. I don't recall Arthur diving about much except when he scored with that header in the 79 cup final replay. Oh god!



FFS,shudder !!!

[hhibs]

Great pass from Irvine for Boyle’s goal. I hope they are both at ER when the season

After that cup final non performance I'm not fussed for either.
[URL="https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE"
[/URL]



Conflicted ???

[davhibby]

If we had a player sent off for the challenge on Boyle I would be going bananas.

That would be silly as it’s a clear foul.

The fact that there’s folk here that can’t see it’s a foul shows why he should be going down, too often fast players don’t get fouls like that by trying to stay on their feet

[Not In The Know]

Watched it a few times and still can’t make my mind up if it was a dive or not. You see that sort of tussle between forwards and defenders constantly.
Great pass from Irvine for Boyle’s goal. I hope they are both at ER when the season

https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE (https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE)


Added the link for the goals.
https://youtu.be/tGCSNO1R9yA

Why is a Hibs fan starting a thread about Boyle diving in an international match he scored in?

[Iggy Pope]

Well! They're all at it nowadays aren't they? The idea that Boyle runs so fast that the merest featherlite touch is enough to send him flying is laughable. I don't recall Arthur diving about much except when he scored with that header in the 79 cup final replay. Oh god!

Party hats!

[CMurdoch]

Party hats!

Johnny Boyle

[vahibbie]

Not a lot of contact but not a dive. From the reverse angle looks like his right foot slips, don't know if the tug was enough to cause that but don't think he could stop going down.

[DIXIHIBS]

I am the first to say that at times boyle goes down far too easily but having watched this, his right foot slips and thats why he falls. I dont think thats a dive or a sending off either.

[AT8]

I honestly don’t know what the fuss is about. Before watching the video, I thought the thread title was suggesting that Boyle was sent off for diving.

[Greenbeard]

Not a lot of contact but not a dive. From the reverse angle looks like his right foot slips, don't know if the tug was enough to cause that but don't think he could stop going down.
He's conned you as well as the ref then. No way his foot slips. Boyle manufactures the "slip" to make it look like he's been fouled. No divot comes up from his right foot "slipping". In fact it looks like his right foot barely touches the turf. The divot that does come up is from his knee when it lands. If the turf was soft enough for that to happen you would expect a bigger divot from the "slip". The sheepish look on his face afterwards tells a tale too. He has seriously cemented his reputation as being a diver and con artist with this. Hugely disappointing and a disgrace to the Hibs jersey. So much so I'm all for cashing him in.

[Lago]

Starting to get a bit of the wrong kind of reputation is our Martin.

[KingPat4]

He was through on goal, why would he dive?

Correct decision.

[Billy Whizz]

He was through on goal, why would he dive?

Correct decision.

Absolutely. As a forward you are taught to cut across a centre back

[CloudSquall]

Watched it a few times and still can’t make my mind up if it was a dive or not. You see that sort of tussle between forwards and defenders constantly.
Great pass from Irvine for Boyle’s goal. I hope they are both at ER when the season

https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE (https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE)

Added the link for the goals.
https://youtu.be/tGCSNO1R9yA


The funniest part for me is the rage in the comments over the "umpire" :greengrin

But yeah, dive and a half, I'd be going radio rental if that was given against Hibs, but also I'd be having a go at the defender for giving him the opportunity with the hand on the shoulder.

[ancient hibee]

I must be getting old.It’s taken me until the end of the thread to realise it wasn’t Boyle that was sent off.

[Alfred E Newman]

Just watched the clip for the first time and though there was a slight tug on the shoulder, to me that was another embarrassing dive from Martin.

[ddoc]

Why is a Hibs fan starting a thread about Boyle diving in an international match he scored in?

I truly do not understand your question.
The You Tube vid asks if it was red card or not. Is there an issue with starting a thread to see what the general opinion is.
And him scoring is totally immaterial.

[Hibiza]

Martin never was a diver , hope he cuts it out though.

[Hibiza]

In Nepal you're meant to be a climber not a diver.

[Forza Fred]

Just watched the clip for the first time and though there was a slight tug on the shoulder, to me that was another embarrassing dive from Martin.

So you agree it was a foul then.

[jingler1954]

They mustn't have VAR at these championships otherwise this would have been sorted by the esteemed watchers who get all the decisions correct.

[Ronniekirk]

Great pass from Irvine for Boyle’s goal. I hope they are both at ER when the season

After that cup final non performance I'm not fussed for either.

(https://youtu.be/ZPW2sUFqdrE)

That’s what Irvine can do play that killer pass for Boyle to run into opening up defences
Why that wasn’t utilised in the Cuo Final I have no idea


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[neil7908]

That would be silly as it’s a clear foul.

The fact that there’s folk here that can’t see it’s a foul shows why he should be going down, too often fast players don’t get fouls like that by trying to stay on their feet

I think the problem is how he's perceived to have gone down. Fwiw I think he slips but someone fairly lighting pulling on your shoulder, even if your running at speed, doesn't naturally result in you falling to the ground.

It's not like riding a tackle where the contact is low and you have to make an effort to stay on your feet. There is no natural way the contact in this case leads to you falling down. Therefore "going down" in effect is a dive.

[WestCoastHibby]

No. Not right, actions of a total conning pansy. Yes there's a foul but red card?? Come on, you see it all over his face when he gets up, he knows he's conned everyone and gained an advantage. Should have been stronger than that. Rapidly getting fed up with his antics because when he is scythed properly we will lose out because Scottish refs are wise to his antics

[Rumble de Thump]

Why would it not have been a red card?

[Jim44]

I must be getting old.It’s taken me until the end of the thread to realise it wasn’t Boyle that was sent off.

With that username, you’re entitled to.:greengrin

[CmoantheHibs]

No. Not right, actions of a total conning pansy. Yes there's a foul but red card?? Come on, you see it all over his face when he gets up, he knows he's conned everyone and gained an advantage. Should have been stronger than that. Rapidly getting fed up with his antics because when he is scythed properly we will lose out because Scottish refs are wise to his antics
Martin Boyle has been getting scythed properly for years without getting protection from Scottish refs.

[Eyrie]

So you agree it was a foul then.

If somebody tugged you on the shoulder like that, would you fall down?

[Rumble de Thump]

If somebody tugged you on the shoulder like that, would you fall down?

If you were clear through on goal for a tap in would you dive?

[blackpoolhibs]

If you were clear through on goal for a tap in would you dive?

Lots of players do exactly that.

[O'Rourke3]

If Martin has started going down easily he's finally worked out he gets sod all protection or a penalty if he stays on his feet. He's not got the issue, its the way defenders are now. Running sideways to prevent an opponent getting the ball used to be called obstruction, now its a methodology. Defenders run side by side to put an arm across attackers hoping none of the officials see. That's seen as good defending while going down is cheating. They can't both be correct.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[hhibs]

[QUOTE=O'Rourke3;6593135]If Martin has started going down easily he's finally worked out he gets sod all protection or a penalty if he stays on his feet. He's not got the issue, its the way defenders are now. Running sideways to prevent an opponent getting the ball used to be called obstruction, now its a methodology. Defenders run side by side to put an arm across attackers hoping none of the officials see. That's seen as good defending while going down is cheating. They can't both be correct.



Excellent point,obstruction seems to have disappeared as a foul in the present day refereeing,as you say,it's cheating.IMO

[CentreLine]

[QUOTE=O'Rourke3;6593135]If Martin has started going down easily he's finally worked out he gets sod all protection or a penalty if he stays on his feet. He's not got the issue, its the way defenders are now. Running sideways to prevent an opponent getting the ball used to be called obstruction, now its a methodology. Defenders run side by side to put an arm across attackers hoping none of the officials see. That's seen as good defending while going down is cheating. They can't both be correct.



Excellent point,obstruction seems to have disappeared as a foul in the present day refereeing,as you say,it's cheating.IMO

Becoming more like American football blockers all the time. Also this habit of falling down with a “head injury” when any attack fails or committing fouls to stop the game in the same circumstances. Anti football.

[Hero76]

Complete dive from our Boyler

[Eyrie]

If you were clear through on goal for a tap in would you dive?

It's more likely that the alarm clock would go off before I found out what happened next.

[Ringothedog]

Complete dive from our Boyler

Really? Opinions are like ********s, we all have one. Mine is he was fouled

[Greenbeard]

Really? Opinions are like ********s, we all have one. Mine is he was fouled
Trying to work out what you mean.
Not sure if you mean ********s or ********s.
Anyway, if you think that was a genuine foul I think you are an ********. :wink:
Would you just grin and bear it if that had been Daz sent off for such a challenge vs the secondary Edinburgh team?

[superfurryhibby]

Boyle was initially fouled and then took a dive.

Is football really about winning at any cost , including compromising one's personal and professional integrity? The answer at professional level is probably, yes. It's just another facet of the game that has emerged and become established as legitimate.

Personally, I think it stinks.

[JimBHibees]

Lots of players do exactly that.

Because they know the opponent goes off. Part of the game nowadays distasteful as that is. Was a foul though.

[wookie70]

Definite foul and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that his right foot slipped on the turf. If he doesn't go down then the defender might get back in having slowed Boyler down and you can bet the referee doesn't give a foul. Only one question needs asked and answered. Was it a foul - Yes

[04Sauzee]

Boyle was initially fouled and then took a dive.

Is football really about winning at any cost , including compromising one's personal and professional integrity? The answer at professional level is probably, yes. It's just another facet of the game that has emerged and become established as legitimate.

Personally, I think it stinks.

He was fouled and his foot gave way so he didn't dive nothing stinks about it. As a last defender don't put your hand on a forward who's running in in goal. Poor defending .

Nice run from Boyle and another goal later on. He's had a decent season.

[Skol1972]

Boyle was initially fouled and then took a dive.

Is football really about winning at any cost , including compromising one's personal and professional integrity? The answer at professional level is probably, yes. It's just another facet of the game that has emerged and become established as legitimate.

Personally, I think it stinks.

As you say though it's a foul. The player has done it to try and stop Boyle getting a clear run on goal, so therefore deliberate. Whether or not Boyle goes down or just stops and throws his hands in the air the decision is then down to the referee as to whether it is a red card for preventing a goal scoring chance.. If Boyle shrugs it off (difficult as the tug will have some effect) and the chance is missed then the defender has got away with cheating.

[superfurryhibby]

As you say though it's a foul. The player has done it to try and stop Boyle getting a clear run on goal, so therefore deliberate. Whether or not Boyle goes down or just stops and throws his hands in the air the decision is then down to the referee as to whether it is a red card for preventing a goal scoring chance.. If Boyle shrugs it off (difficult as the tug will have some effect) and the chance is missed then the defender has got away with cheating.

How about Boyle carries on with his run, puts the ball in the back of the net and leaves the ref to decide whether it was a red card or not? The ref can still brandish the card regardless.

As I said, I don't like this aspect of the modern game.

[Skol1972]

How about Boyle carries on with his run, puts the ball in the back of the net and leaves the ref to decide whether it was a red card or not? The ref can still brandish the card regardless.

As I said, I don't like this aspect of the modern game.

May be wrong but don't think ref can give a red card if goal has been scored as goal scoring chance not denied. It was a foul. If someone has a tug at your shoulder when running at speed it will have some effect on your body's co-ordination with possible loss of any control you have on the ball.. Whether or not it is enough for him to go down can be argued but could be enough to put him off. The dive in the cup final deserved a booking but in this case there was a clear foul.

[WeeRussell]

On this occasion, I’m like a few and can’t say for certain that his right foot doesn’t go from underneath him, after one watch of the YouTube video.

In general though - Boyle does go down too easily despite many of our fans blaming sportscene, Scottish referees, or previous bad challenges on him, when he does it. I was going to say one of his stupid swan dives to get booked was about the only thing he did to stand out in the cup final but apparently he didn’t get booked in that game so I’ll not bother 😂

He’s a good wee player and clearly important to us, and lots of teams have their players that go to ground awfy easily. I just don’t know why we don’t accept ours does it.

[Brizo]

On this occasion, I’m like a few and can’t say for certain that his right foot doesn’t go from underneath him, after one watch of the YouTube video.

In general though - Boyle does go down too easily despite many of our fans blaming sportscene, Scottish referees, or previous bad challenges on him, when he does it. I was going to say one of his stupid swan dives to get booked was about the only thing he did to stand out in the cup final but apparently he didn’t get booked in that game so I’ll not bother 😂

He’s a good wee player and clearly important to us, and lots of teams have their players that go to ground awfy easily. I just don’t know why we don’t accept ours does it.

100% agree with this. To tie this in with the pet peeves thread diving is my pet peeve. People can argue the toss over the Nepal incident but generally he goes down far too easily and only has himself to blame for the negative reaction he gets from the media and other fans.

[Jim44]

I see Boyle has been yellow carded in the game against Jordan. Not for simulation, I hope.

[1875Sean]

Seen harry souttar scored again for the ozzies, unreal recorded for a defender, 6 goals in 6 caps

[ddoc]

I see Boyle has been yellow carded in the game against Jordan. Not for simulation, I hope.

No, report on foul:

The chance then spurred Jordan on, who pushed forward themselves through Musa Suleiman. The crafty attacker carried the ball from the halfway line to the edge of the box before he was dragged down by Martin Boyle who subsequently picked up a yellow card for the challenge.

[Andy74]

Seen harry souttar scored again for the ozzies, unreal recorded for a defender, 6 goals in 6 caps

2 against Nepal and 2 against Chinese Taipei. Without wishing to stereotype too much based on nationality it could be his 6’ 6’’ height was advantageous!

[Forza Fred]

2 against Nepal and 2 against Chinese Taipei. Without wishing to stereotype too much based on nationality it could be his 6’ 6’’ height was advantageous!

At 6’6” it is surely an advantage against any player of any nationality who is 6’ 5” or less.

[Andy74]

At 6’6” it is surely an advantage against any player of any nationality who is 6’ 5” or less.

Maybe but there is a fair difference in being able to compete with that type of presence if say you are Nepal who’s average male height in the population is under 5’4’’ rather than a Netherlands at 5’11’’.

[Forza Fred]

Maybe but there is a fair difference in being able to compete with that type of presence if say you are Nepal who’s average male height in the population is under 5’4’’ rather than a Netherlands at 5’11’’.

That's a BIG advantage.

what I'd say is that SOUTAR uses his height to his advantage, in the same way that say Martin Boyle uses his speed to his

He is a decent player though, height notwithstanding.

No doubt whatsoever that when its a corner he is going to be in the box looking for the ball.....if he was 6,6" and didn't get a couple from dead ball situations he'd be viewed as crap in the air I reckon.

I've got no doubt he'll score against a few sides for his club in England too.

Surprisingly, or not surprisingly...the goal he scored last night from Martin Boyle corner , was score from a standing position when his two feet were on the ground.

He actually reminds me of the days we had Big John MacNamee playing for us...whenever we got a corner we'd yell for Big John to get in the box.