When we gonna get over it ?

[snedzuk]

Fair question, but that level of inspiration wasn't even needed for a national Cup Final against St Johnstone. Just some .. any .. level of professional pride and effort from half the Hibs players could have made a difference. It was the lack of belief/energy/confidence/determination/drive that was so shocking and throws so many question marks over the future of a lot of these Hibs players.


JR said this about his half time talk "I posed the question at half time that if you are going to lose the game are you going to be prepared to do it dead on your feet." That reads to me like putting it into players minds they could lose and it isnt a comment id be going to the press with - but I agree with you about individual player pride / effort.

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m married. I’m never stuck for anybody to argue with.

:top marks

Just to add to the point from earlier, JR has said on many occasions that the feeling around the club when he arrived was that they were happy to tick along winning one, drawing one and losing one.

That to me smacks of ‘accepting mediocrity’.

JR wants to change that, so it seems like he is in agreement with a lot of fans on here.

[hibby6270]

Finals come. And finals go.
Some we win. A lot we lose.
That’s football.

This latest disappointment is just part and parcel of being a Hibs fan.
I’ve only really been bothered by one final loss in my 60+ years.
2012.
Not because we lost, or how we lost. It was who we lost against that still sticks in the craw. Even then though, it was only a few days of personal raging that ensued.

We move on. There will be other finals in future. Then recycle to the top of this comment!
GGTTH

[Barman Stanton]

That performance is still pissing me off. Can take getting beat but it’s like they just didn’t try or care. I honestly think that result is bugging me more than any other Cup final defeat. Iv hardly read about or watched any football since. Should be used to it by now I know.

[Crazyhorse]

Peace, yes, absolutely. We are all Hibs fans here (well, almost all :wink:) and we should be able to have civil discussions.

I’d love to dismiss the SC Final as a freakish result, but unfortunately a lot of Hibs fans saw the team sheet ahead of the game and made the same prediction: we will huff and puff to no discernible effect, St J will nick a goal, we won’t get back into it.

Which is exactly what happened.

I hate to say it, because it’s such a lazy cliche, but watching the Saints players after the game they just looked like they wanted it more?

Jack is obviously a competent manager and decent tactician. But can he inspire our players to dig deeper and find levels of performance that surprise even themselves? This is an unanswered question for now, but it can make all the difference between a ‘nearly’ team and a team that truly achieves its potential.

True. Was exchanging texts with mates and my son before kick off with a lot of concerns about that starting line up. Funnily enough did exactly the same before the EC final when the best coach in the world totally screwed up and you could see it coming.

Hibs manager and players let us down big time but of course we will get over it. This season was a huge opportunity to actually do what St Johnstone did and we would be talking about it for the next two decades. They blew it, bottled it, whatever...
And none of us will be talking about finishing 3rd two years from now. The only thing that you remember is winning trophies.

[Since452]

And if Aberdeen hadn’t collapsed? What then?

I’ve not forgotten the details, it’s all quite fresh in the mind thanks.

Who cares? Thats for them to try and work out. They probably collapsed partially because we were putting pressure on them. It's down to them to get their own house in order. Us battering them at Easter Road was basically the end for them. If we were scraping around mid table Aberdeen would have finished 3rd and McInnes would have still been in a job. Why not give Hibs some credit? You seem desperate not to.

[jacomo]

Who cares? Thats for them to try and work out. They probably collapsed partially because we were putting pressure on them. It's down to them to get their own house in order. Us battering them at Easter Road was basically the end for them. If we were scraping around mid table Aberdeen would have finished 3rd and McInnes would have still been in a job. Why not give Hibs some credit? You seem desperate not to.



Total rubbish.

Why don’t you read what I write and respond to that?

[seanshow]

Is it safe to come out yet :shocked: Since FT I've avoided all football reactions,interactions for 14 days, blind ignorance is bliss :greengrin

[Since452]

Total rubbish.

Why don’t you read what I write and respond to that?

Yawn

[JohnMcM]

Is it safe to come out yet :shocked: Since FT I've avoided all football reactions,interactions for 14 days, blind ignorance is bliss :greengrin

It is safe to come out only if you mention the performance on multiple threads over multiple days as some posters are.:greengrin

For example: see the first post after this:thumbsup:

[ben johnson]

It’s very unfortunate for us to have the Classic Scottish Cup Finals being repeated at the moment
I have watched Falkirk v ICT and DU v St J
The ferocious pace of the STJ and DU match with both teams fully committed and Falkirks never say die attitude was a complete contrast to the lack lustre effort Hibs put in

[MWHIBBIES]

It’s very unfortunate for us to have the Classic Scottish Cup Finals being repeated at the moment
I have watched Falkirk v ICT and DU v St J
The ferocious pace of the STJ and DU match with both teams fully committed and Falkirks never say die attitude was a complete contrast to the lack lustre effort Hibs put in


The 2016 game is pretty good. Hard to question our effort that day. Or does that not fit the narrative?

Falkirk did say die, because they lost to 10 man Inverness.

[Calmbegbie]

Long long time. Still sick two weeks after. It was the manner of how we lost it. Toothless, didn’t show up

[Allez Hibs]

The 2016 game is pretty good. Hard to question our effort that day. Or does that not fit the narrative?

Falkirk did say die, because they lost to 10 man Inverness.

Think he's meaning the 2021 Scottish Cup Final and has a point.

[northstandhibby]

Think he's meaning the 2021 Scottish Cup Final and has a point.

Its been a very very weird year with covid. I'm over it. The better team (overall) lost. Merely adds to what has been a torrid time for all of us. 2016 was the real deal, no doubt about it. And we didn't have a crooked russian submariner bankrolling us with Lithuanian pension funds.

[Wilson]

True. Was exchanging texts with mates and my son before kick off with a lot of concerns about that starting line up. Funnily enough did exactly the same before the EC final when the best coach in the world totally screwed up and you could see it coming.

Hibs manager and players let us down big time but of course we will get over it. This season was a huge opportunity to actually do what St Johnstone did and we would be talking about it for the next two decades. They blew it, bottled it, whatever...
And none of us will be talking about finishing 3rd two years from now. The only thing that you remember is winning trophies.

Hopefully two years from now we'll be talking about having finished third three years on the trot. If we get better at competing in Europe every year all the better.

Of course we want to win trophies but if the club isn't progressing then what would be the point? St Johnstone won them this year but will likely be nowhere next year on the back of it.

I want this club to be bigger than domestic trophies. Aiming higher and competing with better clubs.

[B.H.F.C]

Hopefully two years from now we'll be talking about having finished third three years on the trot. If we get better at competing in Europe every year all the better.

Of course we want to win trophies but if the club isn't progressing then what would be the point? St Johnstone won them this year but will likely be nowhere next year on the back of it.

That’s not to say o don’t want to get finish third and compete in Europe.
I want this club to be bigger than domestic trophies. Aiming higher and competing with better clubs.

You compete to win. Two trophies would mean a lot more than finishing third three time on the trot. Aberdeen were best of the rest for about five years, where’s that got them and what do they have to show for it?

[superfurryhibby]

You compete to win. Two trophies would mean a lot more than finishing third three time on the trot. Aberdeen were best of the rest for about five years, where’s that got them and what do they have to show for it?

Got to agree with this. Cup wins have given me my greatest Hibees moments, nothing else has come close ( although 6-2 wasn’t too shoddy).

[Lancs Harp]

Got to agree with this. Cup wins have given me my greatest Hibees moments, nothing else has come close ( although 6-2 wasn’t too shoddy).

Me too trophies any day. Back in 2016 we had endless debates about promotion v winning the cup. Winning the cup changed the complexion of the Club. We need to be competing in Europe and winning the odd cup, no mean feat I know. Cup wins live in the hearts and memories of fans forever.

[SMAXXA]

Why is this thread even still here? Move on, we lost a final it’s sport it’s football it’s par for the course you win some you lose some we didn’t turn up and got what we deserved. Can we try start a bit of a fresh for the new season and get rid of the negative ***** it’s not good for your health 😉

[B.H.F.C]

Why is this thread even still here? Move on, we lost a final it’s sport it’s football it’s par for the course you win some you lose some we didn’t turn up and got what we deserved. Can we try start a bit of a fresh for the new season and get rid of the negative ***** it’s not good for your health 😉

I think there are some valid points on this thread about the feeling towards the club, more generally than just to do with the cup final.

My health is absolutely fine but as far as Hibs go, this season has scunnered me. It’s not all down to Hibs, it’s partly down to not being there. The only way I will start fresh next season is if I’m able to get in to games. Without that, as I feel now, I don’t think I’ll give a **** (and I’m a home and away every week type of person).

[SMAXXA]

I think there are some valid points on this thread about the feeling towards the club, more generally than just to do with the cup final.

My health is absolutely fine but as far as Hibs go, this season has scunnered me. It’s not all down to Hibs, it’s partly down to not being there. The only way I will start fresh next season is if I’m able to get in to games. Without that, as I feel now, I don’t think I’ll give a **** (and I’m a home and away every week type of person).

Each to their own but can’t say I would ever not give a **** wether I’m there in person to watch Hibs or not.

[B.H.F.C]

Each to their own but can’t say I would ever not give a **** wether I’m there in person to watch Hibs or not.

The whole social aspect of my life is built around going to watch Hibs. Not being able to do that completely changes how I feel. I didn’t enjoy this season whatsoever. Partly through not being there and partly because I didn’t particularly enjoy the football a fair bit of the time. As it stands now, I don’t really have any interest in kicking of another season in the way the current one has finished.

[Peevemor]

The whole social aspect of my life is built around going to watch Hibs. Not being able to do that completely changes how I feel. I didn’t enjoy this season whatsoever. Partly through not being there and partly because I didn’t particularly enjoy the football a fair bit of the time. As it stands now, I don’t really have any interest in kicking of another season in the way the current one has finished.I can understand that 100%. From the time when I was old enough to go to matches on my own until when I left Edinburgh (probably a 25 year period) there were only 2 or 3 matches at ER that I could have gone to but didn't. For most of that time the pub with mates before and/or after the match was a big part of the ocassion. I also went to plenty away matches, but those were obviously far less routine.

For years now I've had to make do with watching Hibs via Hibs TV, so I'm obviously used to what many of you were experiencing for the first time, but I often thought about how I would have been affected had the Covid thing happened say 20 years ago when I was still in Edinburgh. I honestly would have been devastated - for other reasons in addition to the football, but missing matchdays would definitely have hit me hard.

In any case, we're hopefully seeing some light at the end of the tunnel and you should be able to get back to ER, etc. to shout on (or at) the lads. I'll get Cliff & Tam back to myself.

Chin up!

[Wilson]

You compete to win. Two trophies would mean a lot more than finishing third three time on the trot. Aberdeen were best of the rest for about five years, where’s that got them and what do they have to show for it?

I disagree. If we had won two trophies this season then finished 7th and 9th in the next two seasons folk on here wouldn't be contenting themselves with having been trophy winners a couple of seasons ago. They would be spitting feathers because we're crap. In the same way winning the Scottish in 2016 doesn't comfort folk now when we're getting cuffed off Ross County.

This season has been a disaster for Aberdeen and they finished 4th. 4th is a bad season for them. That and they consistently outbid us for our top targets and you're asking where being consistently third has gotten them?

If we're ever in a position where we're constantly third it stands us in better stead for the competitions you care about. It means we're a good team every season. I'd rather hibs be that than a one season wonder in a domestic cup.

[SMAXXA]

I disagree. If we had won two trophies this season then finished 7th and 9th in the next two seasons folk on here wouldn't be contenting themselves with having been trophy winners a couple of seasons ago. They would be spitting feathers because we're crap. In the same way winning the Scottish in 2016 doesn't comfort folk now when we're getting cuffed off Ross County.

This season has been a disaster for Aberdeen and they finished 4th. 4th is a bad season for them. That and they consistently outbid us for our top targets and you're asking where being consistently third has gotten them?

If we're ever in a position where we're constantly third it stands us in better stead for the competitions you care about. It means we're a good team every season. I'd rather hibs be that than a one season wonder in a domestic cup.

Great post 👏 some sense at last

[Crazyhorse]

Hopefully two years from now we'll be talking about having finished third three years on the trot. If we get better at competing in Europe every year all the better.

Of course we want to win trophies but if the club isn't progressing then what would be the point? St Johnstone won them this year but will likely be nowhere next year on the back of it.

I want this club to be bigger than domestic trophies. Aiming higher and competing with better clubs.

Yes a sustained period of success would be great but if it doesn’t involve winning the competitions we are in it is quickly forgotten. You have every right to disagree but for me the only thing that really does matter is Hibs winning trophies.
You might say that was a negative defensive performance St J produced in the final but for me it was the perfect professional way to win a final. I would have been very happy to see Hibs do that.

[B.H.F.C]

I disagree. If we had won two trophies this season then finished 7th and 9th in the next two seasons folk on here wouldn't be contenting themselves with having been trophy winners a couple of seasons ago. They would be spitting feathers because we're crap. In the same way winning the Scottish in 2016 doesn't comfort folk now when we're getting cuffed off Ross County.

This season has been a disaster for Aberdeen and they finished 4th. 4th is a bad season for them. That and they consistently outbid us for our top targets and you're asking where being consistently third has gotten them?

If we're ever in a position where we're constantly third it stands us in better stead for the competitions you care about. It means we're a good team every season. I'd rather hibs be that than a one season wonder in a domestic cup.

Still don’t know what consistently finishing in the top four has got them. Are folk in Aberdeen desperate to watch them? Has it filled up their trophy cabinet?

Winning the cup in 2016 transformed our club. We were playing in front of crowds of 7k-8k at times in 2015-16. If we’d won the cup a fortnight ago we’d have been setting new records. Surely this season shows that simply doing well in the league doesn’t satisfy a lot of folk.

[jacomo]

I disagree. If we had won two trophies this season then finished 7th and 9th in the next two seasons folk on here wouldn't be contenting themselves with having been trophy winners a couple of seasons ago. They would be spitting feathers because we're crap. In the same way winning the Scottish in 2016 doesn't comfort folk now when we're getting cuffed off Ross County.

This season has been a disaster for Aberdeen and they finished 4th. 4th is a bad season for them. That and they consistently outbid us for our top targets and you're asking where being consistently third has gotten them?

If we're ever in a position where we're constantly third it stands us in better stead for the competitions you care about. It means we're a good team every season. I'd rather hibs be that than a one season wonder in a domestic cup.


You can disagree all you want but at the end of the day it’s all about glory and winning trophies and Hibs blew great chances to do that this season.

Aberdeen under McInnes did just what you describe above - but the fans got sick of him and he got emptied because, ultimately, all he had to show for it was that one League Cup trophy.

Finishing 3rd in the league is great, and it’s financially important, but compared to etching your name on a trophy it’s a pretty hollow accolade.

[hibee-boys]

Maturity has certainly mellowed me over the years but that performance has really shifted even my normally pragmatic reaction to a defeat. This will probably linger with me far longer than other Hampden disappointments, if the nucleus of that team give Heart’s a good doing early next season we’ll kiss and make up😂

[Brightside]

You can disagree all you want but at the end of the day it’s all about glory and winning trophies and Hibs blew great chances to do that this season.

Aberdeen under McInnes did just what you describe above - but the fans got sick of him and he got emptied because, ultimately, all he had to show for it was that one League Cup trophy.

Finishing 3rd in the league is great, and it’s financially important, but compared to etching your name on a trophy it’s a pretty hollow accolade.

No it’s not. Some fans would rather have a cup win but a consistent league placing year after year is worth much more to our club.

[Calmbegbie]

Why is this thread even still here? Move on, we lost a final it’s sport it’s football it’s par for the course you win some you lose some we didn’t turn up and got what we deserved. Can we try start a bit of a fresh for the new season and get rid of the negative ***** it’s not good for your health 😉

I like this post and mindset. I was down about it but you are right, move on and let’s look forward

[superfurryhibby]

No it’s not. Some fans would rather have a cup win but a consistent league placing year after year is worth much more to our club.

Some fans? i suspect 99% of fans would prefer a cup win to a consistently high league finish.

Pleasing though it was to secure 3rd, it hardly made me think about celebrating with an emotional outpouring. In my adult life, we’ve won three cups and finished third three times. The impact is hardly comparable and I would say nearly all Hibs fans feel the same way as me.

As for what is worth more, are we talking financially? I doubt that fourth/ third place would bring in as much revenue as a cup win any way, but really......

[BoomtownHibees]

No it’s not. Some fans would rather have a cup win but a consistent league placing year after year is worth much more to our club.

Not sure about that. You only need to look at what the cup win did for season tickets the year after we won it etc. Consistently finishing 3rd or 4th wouldn’t have the same impact. As mentioned above, winning the cup this season would probably have seen us breaking records for the amount of season tickets sold

[Brightside]

Some fans? i suspect 99% of fans would prefer a cup win to a consistently high league finish.

Pleasing though it was to secure 3rd, it hardly made me think about celebrating with an emotional outpouring. In my adult life, we’ve won three cups and finished third three times. The impact is hardly comparable and I would say nearly all Hibs fans feel the same way as me.

As for what is worth more, are we talking financially? I doubt that fourth/ third place would bring in as much revenue as a cup win any way, but really......

I think it’s an old fashioned view tbh. And I don’t think for a second that 99% of fans would rather have cup wins and finishing lower down in the league. The club would end up struggling. It’s like when some people say they’d happily be bottom half of the league as long as they win the derbies. It’s nonsense. Thankfully the club isn’t run like that or we’d end up like our neighbours.

[Crunchie]

I think it’s an old fashioned view tbh. And I don’t think for a second that 99% of fans would rather have cup wins and finishing lower down in the league. The club would end up struggling. It’s like when some people say they’d happily be bottom half of the league as long as they win the derbies. It’s nonsense. Thankfully the club isn’t run like that or we’d end up like our neighbours.
No, I think it would be more like 99.9 with you being the only dissenter. Who in their right mind would accept 3rd over a Scottish Cup, or even a League cup for that matter :confused:.

[Peevemor]

Is it not a mixture of both which would be ideal? We're not going to win a cup every season but STs undoubtedly get a boost when we do. They also get a boost from regular good cup runs (like we're currently experiencing) with people looking to be guaranteed tickets.

On top of that, regular decent league placing should keep ST sales at a good level, although not quite as high as just after winning a (the) cup.

A cup win every 10 years while constantly finishing mid table or less in the league will see the cycle of attendances yo-yoing from one extreme to another (which is basically what happened from 1990-2016.

[B.H.F.C]

I think it’s an old fashioned view tbh. And I don’t think for a second that 99% of fans would rather have cup wins and finishing lower down in the league. The club would end up struggling. It’s like when some people say they’d happily be bottom half of the league as long as they win the derbies. It’s nonsense. Thankfully the club isn’t run like that or we’d end up like our neighbours.

Last time we won something it transformed the club. And that coincided with us finishing third in the first division.

If the club were winning trophies they absolutely would not be struggling.

[superfurryhibby]

I think it’s an old fashioned view tbh. And I don’t think for a second that 99% of fans would rather have cup wins and finishing lower down in the league. The club would end up struggling. It’s like when some people say they’d happily be bottom half of the league as long as they win the derbies. It’s nonsense. Thankfully the club isn’t run like that or we’d end up like our neighbours.

It’s not really like the comparison you make with winning derbies.

The chances are that any Hibs team winning cups will also be doing alright in the league. I’ll take more cups and I reckon so would every Hibs fans I know.

[Brightside]

It’s not really like the comparison you make with winning derbies.

The chances are that any Hibs team winning cups will also be doing alright in the league. I’ll take more cups and I reckon so would every Hibs fans I know.

The chances are that would be wrong. Where were we when we last won a cup?

[Eyrie]

It's the cup wins that stick in the memory, simply because they don't come along very often.

After that it's the teams that play good football that we remember.

League placings come below those two. In ten years time people will recall season 20-21 for Covid and losing the final, not for finishing third.

Personally I'm greedy, and want us finishing third or fourth consistently because that means we've got a good team that qualifies for Europe and which improves our chances of winning a cup.

[calumhibee1]

Last time we won something it transformed the club. And that coincided with us finishing third in the first division.

If the club were winning trophies they absolutely would not be struggling.

:agree:

The idea that consistently winning trophies but finishing lower in the league would see us struggle is laughable really.

Look at what happened when we last won the cup and where we were. Then look at Aberdeen.

Winning trophies is what it’s all about.

As it is though, if you’re consistently winning trophies then chances are you’re a better side than everyone else outside the OF. The same can’t really be said the other way around when you look at us, Hearts and Aberdeen’s pitiful trophy hauls.

[superfurryhibby]

The chances are that would be wrong. Where were we when we last won a cup?

There’s no real debating with that.

[Eyrie]

Over the last fifty yeas our average league position is seventh (6.83) and our finishes when we won cups were

1972/73 - 3rd, League Cup
1991/92 - 5th, League Cup
2006/07 - 6th, League Cup
2015/16 - 15th, Scottish Cup.

So the general trend is that we have a decent season in the league when we win a trophy, which makes sense as a struggling bottom six side is unlikely to have a good cup run. In 15/16 we were in a lower league, but were playing well so morale was good.

[matty_f]

I’d definitely take a Cup win in a season over high league placing, but the argument that the high league placing are better for the club is surely indisputable?

Higher League placing tells you you’ve got a better team than most other sides, which in itself gives you a better chance of winning cups, as does the financial rewards that come with consistent high league placings.

Long term, if we want to be a side that wins trophies regularly, we need to be finishing high up the league on a consistent basis.

[Brightside]

I’d definitely take a Cup win in a season over high league placing, but the argument that the high league placing are better for the club is surely indisputable?

Higher League placing tells you you’ve got a better team than most other sides, which in itself gives you a better chance of winning cups, as does the financial rewards that come with consistent high league placings.

Long term, if we want to be a side that wins trophies regularly, we need to be finishing high up the league on a consistent basis.

Yep. Totally get the glory of cup wins but that’s not the priority for Hibs as a club.

[B.H.F.C]

Yep. Totally get the glory of cup wins but that’s not the priority for Hibs as a club.

What season would those at the club have preferred. Ours or St Johnstone’s?

[B.H.F.C]

I’d definitely take a Cup win in a season over high league placing, but the argument that the high league placing are better for the club is surely indisputable?

Higher League placing tells you you’ve got a better team than most other sides, which in itself gives you a better chance of winning cups, as does the financial rewards that come with consistent high league placings.

Long term, if we want to be a side that wins trophies regularly, we need to be finishing high up the league on a consistent basis.

How’s it indisputable? What would the club have benefitted more from? The season we had or the season St Johnstone had?

You’d be selling more season tickets, be entering a a better European competition if you’d had the latter. And rather than ‘having a better chance of winning cups’ you’d already have them in the bag.

[Crunchie]

How’s it indisputable? What would the club have benefitted more from? The season we had or the season St Johnstone had?

You’d be selling more season tickets, be entering a a better European competition if you’d had the latter. And rather than ‘having a better chance of winning cups’ you’d already have them in the bag.
:agree:
Had we won the Scottish cup and the League cup in the same season it would quite rightly have been hailed our best ever season, we nearly did it as a championship club.
Aberdeen for years have consistently finished top 3 or 4 and won 1 league cup for their troubles.

[7Hero]

LOL. Great thread.

anyone who knows me know i tend to go on a bit, especially when it comes to moaning about hibs failures.

while this was a huge kick in the teeth for the massive missed chance ( i honestly thought the covid treble was on prior to the hearts game )what's different for me is we have a new guy at the helm.

Let's see how he deals with this, i had hoped he would have sacked Ross just to show he won't accept such failures / lack of fight etc. (works for abramovic lol) but he hasn't so he must have a plan. He's shown resolve by removing "fans favourite" ms. dempster which was a bold move but was needed to move the club forward, already progress shown with sponsorship and better signings coming in.

i think if we had gone through this 3 game failure with Petrie and Dempster still there i would be feeling a lot worse, and wouldn't have any feeling of optimisim. Good to have an owner who states he is actually interested in football.

i hope he has said to Ross, we need to win something next year mate and / or show much better commitment / passion and flair as a team, if not your offski pretty quickly, in this game you can't suffer fools and quick decisions need to be made.

as for folk who keep bringing it up ALL THE TIME, yes they need to grow up and get on with it.

I did !

[Andy74]

It's about being able to sustain success. It is very unlikely a team bumping about mid table or lower will win a lot of cups. St Johnstone showed it is possible now and again and it was an unusual year, but that’s not likely long term.

Winning cups would of course make us happy but if we were going to league games and watching us lose regularly then that wouldn’t work for long either.

Thankfully it isn’t really a choice. Hibs will try and build a team trying to do both.

What we might class as success is so moveable as we’ve seen this season that you just have to take that as it comes.

[blackpoolhibs]

No, I think it would be more like 99.9 with you being the only dissenter. Who in their right mind would accept 3rd over a Scottish Cup, or even a League cup for that matter :confused:.

And me, having poor league seasons where we lose lots of games would lose us season ticket sales, why would you buy a season ticket to watch pish every week, when you could just purchase a ticket every 6 weeks or so for a cup match.

Can you see that slippery slope?

[matty_f]

How’s it indisputable? What would the club have benefitted more from? The season we had or the season St Johnstone had?

You’d be selling more season tickets, be entering a a better European competition if you’d had the latter. And rather than ‘having a better chance of winning cups’ you’d already have them in the bag.

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.

[He's here!]

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.

And yet despite what, for a club of their size, has been a long spell of remarkable consistency and success they remain woefully under-supported.

On the other hand the boost in terms of crowds/season ticket sales from 2016 has had a lasting impact for a club of Hibs' size and it remains desperately frustrating that we flopped so badly a couple of weeks back. Winning the cup again would have had immediate and longer term benefits.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I’m officially over it.

[B.H.F.C]

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.

Prior to this season St Johnstone finished 6th (on PPG), 7th and 8th. And changed their manager. Hardly a great platform IMO. They just took the once in a generation opportunities that had presented themselves in the cups. I’m not sure they steadily built towards it over a period of time.

[matty_f]

Prior to this season St Johnstone finished 6th (on PPG), 7th and 8th. And changed their manager. Hardly a great platform IMO. They just took the once in a generation opportunities that had presented themselves in the cups. I’m not sure they steadily built towards it over a period of time.

Fair enough, i thought they’d pretty much been an ever present in the top six over the last however many years.

Edit : actually stand by my point, in 8 out of the last ten seasons they’ve finished top 6, including a 3rd place and three consecutive seasons in fourth.

[jacomo]

I’m officially over it.


I’m not even close.

[B.H.F.C]

Fair enough, i thought they’d pretty much been an ever present in the top six over the last however many years.

Edit : actually stand by my point, in 8 out of the last ten seasons they’ve finished top 6, including a 3rd place and three consecutive seasons in fourth.

I’d take your point when looking at their 2014 win but not this season. They’d been a fair bit poorer for a good couple of years and transitioning to a new manager as well.

I don’t actually disagree with the theory that you should have a better chance of doing well in the cups if you’re doing well in the league. I just disagree about the benefits of third place finishes against a trophy.

[matty_f]

I’d take your point when looking at their 2014 win but not this season. They’d been a fair bit poorer for a good couple of years and transitioning to a new manager as well.

I don’t actually disagree with the theory that you should have a better chance of doing well in the cups if you’re doing well in the league. I just disagree about the benefits of third place finishes against a trophy.

The benefits are in the sustainability - a cup win every now and again will give you a lift but -particularly with the league cup - if you win that and the end of your season is rubbish then the lift you get is negligible.

[bigwheel]

The benefits are in the sustainability - a cup win every now and again will give you a lift but -particularly with the league cup - if you win that and the end of your season is rubbish then the lift you get is negligible.

I think your touching on the reason there remains a frustrated feeling of dissatisfaction with many. People were hoping for a happy summer with a cup win to add to the 3rd in the league. The very poor performance in the final has led to no end of season lift, in fact as you touch on,the opposite - ending on a big downer ...

It’s only fitba though ...sun is shining ..loads of other things to enjoy now ...

[B.H.F.C]

The benefits are in the sustainability - a cup win every now and again will give you a lift but -particularly with the league cup - if you win that and the end of your season is rubbish then the lift you get is negligible.

I come back to the Aberdeen example though. Not been out of the top four for about 8 seasons and where had it got them? I don’t even think they’ve got as far as the playoff round in Europe and one league cup right at the start of the cycle. Crap season ticket numbers and punters generally underwhelmed. It was the cup win that saw our season tickets spike and despite only being in the top four twice since then, we’ve largely managed to maintain. If we’d won a fortnight ago we’d have smashed our record IMO. More money going in to this season to help us improve further.

[Hibiza]

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster was 3 in a matter of months.

[Peevemor]

I come back to the Aberdeen example though. Not been out of the top four for about 8 seasons and where had it got them? I don’t even think they’ve got as far as the playoff round in Europe and one league cup right at the start of the cycle. Crap season ticket numbers and punters generally underwhelmed. It was the cup win that saw our season tickets spike and despite only being in the top four twice since then, we’ve largely managed to maintain. If we’d won a fortnight ago we’d have smashed our record IMO. More money going in to this season to help us improve further.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Teams will also always try to win every cup competition they enter. When Hibs go into a knock-out match against anyone then they'll be looking to win it. However, clubs don't decide whether they're going to win a cup or not. A tough draw, a missed penalty, a dodgy referee - all sorts of things can happen over the course of a cup run which results in being knocked out.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Teams will also always try to win every cup competition they enter. When Hibs go into a knock-out match against anyone then they'll be looking to win it. However, clubs don't decide whether they're going to win a cup or not. A tough draw, a missed penalty, a dodgy referee - all sorts of things can happen over the course of a cup run which results in being knocked out.

Equally, I’m not sure what point you’re making.

I think my posts are quite clear in that I’m saying I think there is more benefit in going and winning something as opposed to the benefits you get from consistent top four finishes.

[BILLYHIBS]

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster was 3 in a matter of months.
:agree:

[Peevemor]

Equally, I’m not sure what point you’re making.

I think my posts are quite clear in that I’m saying I think there is more benefit in going and winning something as opposed to the benefits you get from consistent top four finishes.

There's also more benefit to winning the Euromillions jackpot than working for 45+ years for even a slightly above average salary. It's not something you can plan for though. Working does mean you have money to spend on lottery tickets though.

[B.H.F.C]

There's also more benefit to winning the Euromillions jackpot than working for 45+ years for even a slightly above average salary. It's not something you can plan for though.

I was having a reasonable debate with someone who thinks there is more benefit to doing well consistently in the league than there is to the perceived short term benefit of a cup win. I don’t see what’s difficult to comprehend about that and your comparison is, frankly, stupid.

[Peevemor]

I was having a reasonable debate with someone who thinks there is more benefit to doing well consistently in the league than there is to the perceived short term benefit of a cup win. I don’t see what’s difficult to comprehend about that and your comparison is, frankly, stupid.

I would remind you that it's an open forum, and I don't think my analogy was at all stupid.

But, I understand. Anything I post is going to annoy you and get your back up so I'll butt out.

Chill!

[Jones28]

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster was 3 in a matter of months.

Might as well pack it in then eh?

[jacomo]

Equally, I’m not sure what point you’re making.

I think my posts are quite clear in that I’m saying I think there is more benefit in going and winning something as opposed to the benefits you get from consistent top four finishes.


Your point is clear enough.

The way that money is distributed and European places are allocated make a high placing in the league financially important, but in sport the truth is that 1st is the winner and 2nd is nowhere.

There’s no glory in being best of the rest. No trophy, no medals, no lifelong memories.

Given how far the ugly sisters are ahead of us and our record in Europe, domestic cups are where it’s at.

[Allez Hibs]

No it’s not. Some fans would rather have a cup win but a consistent league placing year after year is worth much more to our club.

Would rather have a trophy over 3rd place, every time.

That is why this thread is still going.

[Iggy Pope]

Would rather have a trophy over 3rd place, every time.

That is why this thread is still going.


:agree:
I’m certain everyone would, no matter what some might suggest on here. Not doing (a lot) better in the 3 clear cup opportunities this term was hugely disappointing. Some folks get disgusted mind you, I just think we underperformed massively and as a result, the club lost a lot of immediate revenue and potential revenue. Anyone thinking otherwise doesn’t understand life never mind football and I’m surprised some of the staff are getting off with it. With fans present, the ride would not be so easy I’m certain.

[mixumatosis]

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster.

You'd have been closer if you'd left it there.

[jacomo]

Might as well pack it in then eh?


Don’t tempt me.

[Crunchie]

And me, having poor league seasons where we lose lots of games would lose us season ticket sales, why would you buy a season ticket to watch pish every week, when you could just purchase a ticket every 6 weeks or so for a cup match.

Can you see that slippery slope?
I'm not a fair weather fan so I wouldn't fall into that category :greengrin, and obviously I wouldn't want us to have a poor league season, far from it.

I don't know why I'm even on this thread because I'm over the final, and I'm in the keep Jack Ross camp, he has us banging on the door and that's fine by me.
I believe I was replying to Mr Brightside who's happy to finish higher up the league than actually win anything, and you seem to agree with him. I don't, give me a trophy and day of the week over a 3rd place finish.
I agree with what Matty is saying in as far as if you have a better team you have a better chance of winning something but that doesn't always follow. The much fabled Hibs team of the 70's as you well know won 1
major honour and ended up relegated.
Given the choice of course I'd like both a high finish and winning cups, but if I had to choose I'd even take relegation if it meant winning the Scottish cup again. After all we know we'll bounce back up and challenge again.

[MWHIBBIES]

How’s it indisputable? What would the club have benefitted more from? The season we had or the season St Johnstone had?

You’d be selling more season tickets, be entering a a better European competition if you’d had the latter. And rather than ‘having a better chance of winning cups’ you’d already have them in the bag.

Manager would've been hounded out had we had the league season they did.

[Greenbeard]

Manager would've been hounded out had we had the league season they did.
Presume you mean Saints league season alone ie without their Cup wins.
Had we had their exact season - under par league and cup double - no way would the manager even be on a shaky peg, never mind hounded out.
BTW I heard direct from a Saints backroom staffer that we selected and played exactly as they had expected and planned and that "Hibs made it easy for us". That does not reflect well on JR.

[The Modfather]

Manager would've been hounded out had we had the league season they did.

Hounded out for finishing 5th and doing the cup double? Sounds like one of our best ever seasons.

[Highwayman]

Presume you mean Saints league season alone ie without their Cup wins.
Had we had their exact season - under par league and cup double - no way would the manager even be on a shaky peg, never mind hounded out.
BTW I heard direct from a Saints backroom staffer that we selected and played exactly as they had expected and planned and that "Hibs made it easy for us". That does not reflect well on JR.

Not surprised with that information from Saints back room staffer.

Its like Calum Davidson handed Hibs a plan and said this is how I want you to play,and Hibs followed it to the letter.

However it’s now past so let’s look forward to next season and hope JR and coaching staff can do their homework on opposing teams a bit better.

[mcohibs]

Hounded out for finishing 5th and doing the cup double? Sounds like one of our best ever seasons.
'League season'

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hounded out for finishing 5th and doing the cup double? Sounds like one of our best ever seasons.

It’s unlikely we’d have been patient enough after 1 win in 10 (or whatever it was) at the start of the season.

[jacomo]

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.


How is it a boom or bust strategy?

St Johnstone have had a wonderfully successful season, largely at our expense. I’ll bet they wish they could play us every week.

This isn’t like Livi in 2004 who beat us to the league cup by spending money they didn’t have on better players. This is a St Johnstone squad built on a much smaller budget (including several players deemed not good enough for Hibs) who had our number.

If that doesn’t prompt some serious soul searching, I don’t know what does. We blew it big time, and I’m not in the mood to hear platitudes about how great the boys were in the league. I want to hear from a management team that has realised where we went wrong and is taking steps to address those failings.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Would rather have a trophy over 3rd place, every time.

That is why this thread is still going.

I think the majority would agree. Thing is you don’t get the choice.

The best way to chase the cups is to also be consistent in the league but for some reason it feels like a lot of folk are happy to write off consistency in the league while forgetting if we were inconsistent that they’d be raging and want the manager sacked - creating more instability which in turn makes us less likely to win all the cups.

[CJHibby]

As many posters have stated, finishing third in the league is second best to winning a Cup-especially our Holy Grail, the Scottish Cup. I think Jack Ross only has a few credits left in the bank but obviously hope he and Hibs succeed. Last season was a massive opportunity to have bagged at least one piece of silverware and so will hurt for a good while ..:brickwall

[flash]

As many posters have stated, finishing third in the league is second best to winning a Cup-especially our Holy Grail, the Scottish Cup. I think Jack Ross only has a few credits left in the bank but obviously hope he and Hibs succeed. Last season was a massive opportunity to have bagged at least one piece of silverware and so will hurt for a good while ..:brickwall
We have just finished 3rd which is realistically the best we will ever do so forgive me if I am prepared to give him more than " a few credits."

[superfurryhibby]

How is it a boom or bust strategy?

St Johnstone have had a wonderfully successful season, largely at our expense. I’ll bet they wish they could play us every week.

This isn’t like Livi in 2004 who beat us to the league cup by spending money they didn’t have on better players. This is a St Johnstone squad built on a much smaller budget (including several players deemed not good enough for Hibs) who had our number.

If that doesn’t prompt some serious soul searching, I don’t know what does. We blew it big time, and I’m not in the mood to hear platitudes about how great the boys were in the league. I want to hear from a management team that has realised where we went wrong and is taking steps to address those failings.

I don't think we'll be hearing much from our management team about where our game plan went wrong, the time for that was after the final when Ross could (should ) have apologised to the fans for such a dismal showing. Hopefully though, he will have learned and be able to rectify the teams failings this coming season. By the end of this transfer window the side will by and large be one of his making/choosing and Ross will stand or fall by them.

[Calmbegbie]

I don't think we'll be hearing much from our management team about where our game plan went wrong, the time for that was after the final when Ross could (should ) have apologised to the fans for such a dismal showing. Hopefully though, he will have learned and be able to rectify the teams failings this coming season. By the end of this transfer window the side will by and large be one of his making/choosing and Ross will stand or fall by them.


I have to admit that the games against St Johnstone are what concerns me about Ross. They were all the same and he didn’t seem to have a plan b of an idea of what to do to take st Johnstone out of their comfort zone. That’s what concerned me more than anything else about the manner in which we lost the final tbh

[Peevemor]

I have to admit that the games against St Johnstone are what concerns me about Ross. They were all the same and he didn’t seem to have a plan b of an idea of what to do to take st Johnstone out of their comfort zone. That’s what concerned me more than anything else about the manner in which we lost the final tbh

It's not a new problem though and certainly not exclusive to Jack Ross. Stubbs & Lennon also struggled against teams that parked the bus.

[matty_f]

It's not a new problem though and certainly not exclusive to Jack Ross. Stubbs & Lennon also struggled against teams that parked the bus.

Lennon never beat St Johnstone at Hibs. :agree:

[jacomo]

It’s unlikely we’d have been patient enough after 1 win in 10 (or whatever it was) at the start of the season.


St Johnstone weren’t. Tommy Wright left.

[matty_f]

How is it a boom or bust strategy?

St Johnstone have had a wonderfully successful season, largely at our expense. I’ll bet they wish they could play us every week.

This isn’t like Livi in 2004 who beat us to the league cup by spending money they didn’t have on better players. This is a St Johnstone squad built on a much smaller budget (including several players deemed not good enough for Hibs) who had our number.

If that doesn’t prompt some serious soul searching, I don’t know what does. We blew it big time, and I’m not in the mood to hear platitudes about how great the boys were in the league. I want to hear from a management team that has realised where we went wrong and is taking steps to address those failings.

It’s boom or just because it relies on putting your eggs in one, very difficult to achieve, basket.

Regular average seasons with a cup win every now and again is what we’ve had historically, albeit with fewer cup wins than we’d want.

St Johnstone are a consistent top 6 side, which helped them achieve what they’ve achieved. We’ve been relegated, stayed in the Championship for three seasons while we rebuilt, and St Johnstone have been able to use that stability and relative success to get success.

We’ve been building and were very close to achieving it as well.

The sustainable approach, in terms of keeping fans coming through the gates and building a solid financial footing, is to build a team that consistently competes at the top end of the table, and in doing do you also set up for winning cups on a more regular basis.

[matty_f]

St Johnstone weren’t. Tommy Wright left.

That was Davidson’s record, so they were. :wink:

[superfurryhibby]

It’s boom or just because it relies on putting your eggs in one, very difficult to achieve, basket.

Regular average seasons with a cup win every now and again is what we’ve had historically, albeit with fewer cup wins than we’d want.

St Johnstone are a consistent top 6 side, which helped them achieve what they’ve achieved. We’ve been relegated, stayed in the Championship for three seasons while we rebuilt, and St Johnstone have been able to use that stability and relative success to get success.

We’ve been building and were very close to achieving it as well.

The sustainable approach, in terms of keeping fans coming through the gates and building a solid financial footing, is to build a team that consistently competes at the top end of the table, and in doing do you also set up for winning cups on a more regular basis.


I agree, you would expect a team that finishes at the top end of the table to have a more solid foundation and compete for cups. That said, Hibs have been rebuilding the club from the time we were relegated, the time in the Championship is a bit skewed by the nature of the competition we faced. I suspect our budget whilst in the Championship was still considerable greater than St Johnstone's? We've still seen significant investment in Hibs these past seven or so years, no matter which league we were in?

Ideally we could have a team that is always in the top six and.....here's the big one, one that wins more games at Hampden than it loses. Eight appearances at Hampden since 2016 and one win, with only three of those games v any of the Old Firm. That isn't a sustainable approach, it's soul destroying. A bit more achieving it, and a few less tepid performances is all we ask for.

[matty_f]

I agree, you would expect a team that finishes at the top end of the table to have a more solid foundation and compete for cups. That said, Hibs have been rebuilding the club from the time we were relegated, the time in the Championship is a bit skewed by the nature of the competition we faced. I suspect our budget whilst in the Championship was still considerable greater than St Johnstone's? We've still seen significant investment in Hibs these past seven or so years, no matter which league we were in?

Ideally we could have a team that is always in the top six and.....here's the big one, one that wins more games at Hampden than it loses. Eight appearances at Hampden since 2016 and one win, with only three of those games v any of the Old Firm. That isn't a sustainable approach, it's soul destroying. A bit more achieving it, and a few less tepid performances is all we ask for.

I think the number of Hampden trips (and, sadly, subsequent disappointments) tells us that the consistency and the rebuilding is working, we just need that bit extra when it really matters - but we’re right in the mix almost every time, which can’t be said by many teams in the country.

[jacomo]

That was Davidson’s record, so they were. :wink:


Fair point.

[jacomo]

It’s boom or just because it relies on putting your eggs in one, very difficult to achieve, basket.

Regular average seasons with a cup win every now and again is what we’ve had historically, albeit with fewer cup wins than we’d want.

St Johnstone are a consistent top 6 side, which helped them achieve what they’ve achieved. We’ve been relegated, stayed in the Championship for three seasons while we rebuilt, and St Johnstone have been able to use that stability and relative success to get success.

We’ve been building and were very close to achieving it as well.

The sustainable approach, in terms of keeping fans coming through the gates and building a solid financial footing, is to build a team that consistently competes at the top end of the table, and in doing do you also set up for winning cups on a more regular basis.


I’m still baffled here though, I’m afraid.

I don’t see anything risky about the way St Johnstone have gone about their business. They’ve just been significantly better at it than us.

Just have to leave it at that.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hounded out for finishing 5th and doing the cup double? Sounds like one of our best ever seasons.

The way they started the season would've seen the manager hounded out. They were brilliant this year, not so much before.

They won 11 league matches all season. From 38, that is poor.

Stubbs very nearly won both cups, and folk still give him stick for the poor league season. This would be no different.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The way they started the season would've seen the manager hounded out. They were brilliant this year, not so much before.

They won 11 league matches all season. From 38, that is poor.

Stubbs very nearly won both cups, and folk still give him stick for the poor league season. This would be no different.

I’m sure I heard/read that they scored 9 goals at home all season. A Hibs manager would be hounded out for that alone.

[calumhibee1]

I’m sure I heard/read that they scored 9 goals at home all season. A Hibs manager would be hounded out for that alone.

Strangely enough I’d saw a similar stat saying they’d scored 18 but 7 of them were against Kelty in a cup. On the presumption what you’re saying was just league goals then it is probably about right I’d imagine.

For all the talk of them being this really good team, they’re actually a bit ****.

[Kato]

Strangely enough I’d saw a similar stat saying they’d scored 18 but 7 of them were against Kelty in a cup. On the presumption what you’re saying was just league goals then it is probably about right I’d imagine.

For all the talk of them being this really good team, they’re actually a bit ****.They play the way most Scottish teams play, go out to stifle any joy in the game. They are entitled to do that but its rotten to watch.

What they do have and shouldn't be ignored is team spirit in abundance, all their players are carefully picked to fit in with each other and are made to feel that St Johnstone is their home.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

I’d love us to be **** enough to win a cup double.

[matty_f]

I’m still baffled here though, I’m afraid.

I don’t see anything risky about the way St Johnstone have gone about their business. They’ve just been significantly better at it than us.

Just have to leave it at that.
St Johnstone haven’t done the boom or bust. They’re success is built upon their relative league success, that’s why you can’t see the risk.

Top 6 in 8 out of the last ten seasons, including a third and three consecutive fourth place finishes. They’ve built steadily towards this point. I think they’re only on their second manager of that period as well.

[neil7908]

I think the number of Hampden trips (and, sadly, subsequent disappointments) tells us that the consistency and the rebuilding is working, we just need that bit extra when it really matters - but we’re right in the mix almost every time, which can’t be said by many teams in the country.

I've calmed down a bit and probably agree largely with what you are saying. My main gripe is how often I've heard this about Hibs team. We always seem to be on the cusp. I like the set up of the club, Ross has done well but I'm not sure we can suggest that our recent record of visits to Hampden is a sign that we will come good and start winning them more than not. I certainly hope that's the case but professional football rarely allows for teams to develop and grow unless have are funded by oil billions. We could be on the verge of years of success, but if Hibs history is anything to go by, we could just as easily see the team dismantled in the summer and end up mid table.

After 2016 similar noises were made about this just being the beginning, culture at the club has moved and we'll start seeing more success. We've undoubtedly had some good years after that, but I don't think we've really kicked on to the extent I hoped.

[Just Alf]

St Johnstone haven’t done the boom or bust. They’re success is built upon their relative league success, that’s why you can’t see the risk.

Top 6 in 8 out of the last ten seasons, including a third and three consecutive fourth place finishes. They’ve built steadily towards this point. I think they’re only on their second manager of that period as well.They're actually better than we give them credit for :agree:

The St Johnston of old were clearly also rans... that's no longer the case.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Onion]

I think the number of Hampden trips (and, sadly, subsequent disappointments) tells us that the consistency and the rebuilding is working, we just need that bit extra when it really matters - but we’re right in the mix almost every time, which can’t be said by many teams in the country.

They were saying same thing in 1907 and it turned out ok eventually. Just need more faith and patience 👍

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not a fair weather fan so I wouldn't fall into that category :greengrin, and obviously I wouldn't want us to have a poor league season, far from it.

I don't know why I'm even on this thread because I'm over the final, and I'm in the keep Jack Ross camp, he has us banging on the door and that's fine by me.
I believe I was replying to Mr Brightside who's happy to finish higher up the league than actually win anything, and you seem to agree with him. I don't, give me a trophy and day of the week over a 3rd place finish.
I agree with what Matty is saying in as far as if you have a better team you have a better chance of winning something but that doesn't always follow. The much fabled Hibs team of the 70's as you well know won 1
major honour and ended up relegated.
Given the choice of course I'd like both a high finish and winning cups, but if I had to choose I'd even take relegation if it meant winning the Scottish cup again. After all we know we'll bounce back up and challenge again.

I understand what you mean, i'd have loved to win the cup this season and finished 5th or 6th, but we dont get that choice it would be good if we did.:greengrin

Can you imagine this board had we lost more matches than we actually did, and the team was languishing outside a European place before the quarters or the semi or even the final ?

The frothers would be wanting everyone from the manager down to the tea lady sacked for such a horrendous season, some of our horror shows would be slaughtered for weeks and the negativity would know no bounds.

But everything would turn out ok in the end, because we would have won the cup. :greengrin

[matty_f]

I've calmed down a bit and probably agree largely with what you are saying. My main gripe is how often I've heard this about Hibs team. We always seem to be on the cusp. I like the set up of the club, Ross has done well but I'm not sure we can suggest that our recent record of visits to Hampden is a sign that we will come good and start winning them more than not. I certainly hope that's the case but professional football rarely allows for teams to develop and grow unless have are funded by oil billions. We could be on the verge of years of success, but if Hibs history is anything to go by, we could just as easily see the team dismantled in the summer and end up mid table.

After 2016 similar noises were made about this just being the beginning, culture at the club has moved and we'll start seeing more success. We've undoubtedly had some good years after that, but I don't think we've really kicked on to the extent I hoped.

I think the biggest difference that i can see better where we are today and promising moments in the past, is that we seem to have our act together off the field with a clear strategy and idea of how to capitalise.

When we sold the golden generation, we had huge debt to repay, we built the training centre and later built the East Stand.

We’ve almost no debt now (other than the known government loan of £2m over 20 years, interest free).

When we previously brought in money for transfers, we spent pretty poorly - we’ve got a functioning recruitment team now.

We’ve got a better youth set up, now seeing partnerships with other clubs to improve our players but also to give access to better players.

While nothing in football is guaranteed, and you can have a season where things go very wrong, the trend towards getting to the later stages of cup competitions is happening by design, rather than accident.

It won’t be a smooth upward trend all the time, there will be bumps along the way as we’ve seen already, but plan and ambitions that the club are working towards are very much about making us a consistently successful (by most measures) side.

Through the STF and Petrie days, the club strategy was to do the most with the money were brought in -spend a pound less than we take in, and given the owner’s preferences for how he saw the club, that was about as good a strategy as we could get - build the infrastructure and make that money work for you.

We now have an opener with a bit more of an appetite for calculated risk and I’d be amazed if Ron Gordon’s eventual exit strategy doesn’t involve him handing over a much bigger, much more successful club than the one he took over.

[BILLYHIBS]

Yip! I remember Fergus McCann rode off into the sunset with a young blonde Glaswegian Lawyer on his arm

If Ron can do half as good a job I will be happy

Seem to remember McCann getting nothing but abuse from the best supporters in the land

I digress :greengrin

[jacomo]

I understand what you mean, i'd have loved to win the cup this season and finished 5th or 6th, but we dont get that choice it would be good if we did.:greengrin

Can you imagine this board had we lost more matches than we actually did, and the team was languishing outside a European place before the quarters or the semi or even the final ?

The frothers would be wanting everyone from the manager down to the tea lady sacked for such a horrendous season, some of our horror shows would be slaughtered for weeks and the negativity would know no bounds.

But everything would turn out ok in the end, because we would have won the cup. :greengrin


As a well known frother yourself, don’t be blaming that solely on others.

:wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

As a well known frother yourself, don’t be blaming that solely on others.

:wink:
:greengrin

Can you imagine the scenario though, Hibs sheite all season, but because we are guaranteed to win a cup, we will all be polite and civil to each other, commenting about how unlucky we were to lose against Dundee St Mirren and Airdrie in the League cup, as Jack was only trying things out in preparation for our Scottish cup run. :faf:

Yes i'm sure we'd all be clamouring up to the ground to snap up those season tickets, so we can watch us struggle around mid table losing more games than we just did, because come the end of May, it's party time. :top marks

[Since452]

:greengrin

Can you imagine the scenario though, Hibs sheite all season, but because we are guaranteed to win a cup, we will all be polite and civil to each other, commenting about how unlucky we were to lose against Dundee St Mirren and Airdrie in the League cup, as Jack was only trying things out in preparation for our Scottish cup run. :faf:

Yes i'm sure we'd all be clamouring up to the ground to snap up those season tickets, so we can watch us struggle around mid table losing more games than we just did, because come the end of May, it's party time. :top marks

There'd be an inquiry called for and a Jack Ross out poll for not finishing 3rd

[J-C]

Over 2 weeks now and there's still some hurting from that defeat, jeez get over it. We had a pretty successful season league wise and yes the cup results were very poor considering but that's football. Did Ross make mistakes, yes! Will he learn from them, lets hope so! Did the players play poorly, yes!

It's time to move on and look forward to next season, if these same things continue then we can start really moaning but lets look forward and build on a fairly successful season.

[MWHIBBIES]

Over 2 weeks now and there's still some hurting from that defeat, jeez get over it. We had a pretty successful season league wise and yes the cup results were very poor considering but that's football. Did Ross make mistakes, yes! Will he learn from them, lets hope so! Did the players play poorly, yes!

It's time to move on and look forward to next season, if these same things continue then we can start really moaning but lets look forward and build on a fairly successful season.
You don't get to dictate when others do or don't get over something, though. Anyone is entitled to still be upset about the final. Players probably still are.

[Jones28]

You don't get to dictate when others do or don't get over something, though. Anyone is entitled to still be upset about the final. Players probably still are.

If you have an awful day at work before you go on holiday do you let it spoil it? Do you dwell on bad days at the office?

Sure as **** they don't because if they did it would be so all consuming it would eat them alive.

[jacomo]

:greengrin

Can you imagine the scenario though, Hibs sheite all season, but because we are guaranteed to win a cup, we will all be polite and civil to each other, commenting about how unlucky we were to lose against Dundee St Mirren and Airdrie in the League cup, as Jack was only trying things out in preparation for our Scottish cup run. :faf:

Yes i'm sure we'd all be clamouring up to the ground to snap up those season tickets, so we can watch us struggle around mid table losing more games than we just did, because come the end of May, it's party time. :top marks


Would it be so bad? :greengrin

In all seriousness, I agree with you and others that if Hibs are in the top 4 then we really shouldn’t be moaning. If we can kick on and firmly establish ourselves in the top 4 then all good.

The cup competitions were a real kick in the teeth though and it creates doubts about this team’s ability to deliver in the vital moments.

The semi final and two finals were all awful and I’m not over it yet.

[blackpoolhibs]

Would it be so bad? :greengrin

In all seriousness, I agree with you and others that if Hibs are in the top 4 then we really shouldn’t be moaning. If we can kick on and firmly establish ourselves in the top 4 then all good.

The cup competitions were a real kick in the teeth though and it creates doubts about this team’s ability to deliver in the vital moments.

The semi final and two finals were all awful and I’m not over it yet.

It would be great, we could forget about every result bar the Scottish cup games, so apart from 5 or 6 games a year we could do something else on a Saturday and rock up for those ties and think the world is wonderful.:wink:

[MWHIBBIES]

If you have an awful day at work before you go on holiday do you let it spoil it? Do you dwell on bad days at the office?

Sure as **** they don't because if they did it would be so all consuming it would eat them alive.

There is a difference between hiding away from the world and still being bothered by something. You think guys like Hanlon and Stevenson just forget these things? Pretty sure they have both said bad results from the past still bother them

[Since90+2]

If you have an awful day at work before you go on holiday do you let it spoil it? Do you dwell on bad days at the office?

Sure as **** they don't because if they did it would be so all consuming it would eat them alive.

To be fair football is not a normal job in that respect. There is not really a comparable day you can have in the office that would be like losing a Scottish cup final infront of a worldwide audience in the hundreds of thousands and the sense of lost glory that inevitably brings.

[Brightside]

You don't get to dictate when others do or don't get over something, though. Anyone is entitled to still be upset about the final. Players probably still are.

Some of them are busy drinking cocktails on holiday. I think they are managing to not be too depressed. mainly because they know its finished and the most important thing is to remove it from your memory and start again. Being upset about a football game 2 weeks later just doesnt make much sense. We shouldnt even be thinking about it now.

[Brightside]

:greengrin

Can you imagine the scenario though, Hibs sheite all season, but because we are guaranteed to win a cup, we will all be polite and civil to each other, commenting about how unlucky we were to lose against Dundee St Mirren and Airdrie in the League cup, as Jack was only trying things out in preparation for our Scottish cup run. :faf:

Yes i'm sure we'd all be clamouring up to the ground to snap up those season tickets, so we can watch us struggle around mid table losing more games than we just did, because come the end of May, it's party time. :top marks

I continue to be perplexed at your move towards being the voice of reason on here....:greengrin:greengrin

[B.H.F.C]

Some of them are busy drinking cocktails on holiday. I think they are managing to not be too depressed. mainly because they know its finished and the most important thing is to remove it from your memory and start again. Being upset about a football game 2 weeks later just doesnt make much sense. We shouldnt even be thinking about it now.

Why shouldn’t we think about it any more? Who dictates how others think or why they think what they think?

I’m hardly ready to throw myself in front of a bus, I’m not struggling to sleep or anything. But as far as Hibs go the cup final (and the ongoing uncertainty about getting in to games) has completely scunnered me. I’m glad the season is done and not missing it whatsoever, which is unusual for me.

[scoopyboy]

Would it be so bad? :greengrin

In all seriousness, I agree with you and others that if Hibs are in the top 4 then we really shouldn’t be moaning. If we can kick on and firmly establish ourselves in the top 4 then all good.

The cup competitions were a real kick in the teeth though and it creates doubts about this team’s ability to deliver in the vital moments.

The semi final and two finals were all awful and I’m not over it yet.

Not so bad that you got two finals out of it, what other semi did we win?:greengrin

[superfurryhibby]

Some of them are busy drinking cocktails on holiday. I think they are managing to not be too depressed. mainly because they know its finished and the most important thing is to remove it from your memory and start again. Being upset about a football game 2 weeks later just doesnt make much sense. We shouldnt even be thinking about it now.

I personally hope the players enjoy their time off, come back reinvigorated and determined to repay the fans faith in them. They let us and themselves down in the last game of the season and they will know that too.

[Onion]

You don't get to dictate when others do or don't get over something, though. Anyone is entitled to still be upset about the final. Players probably still are.

Exactly, everyone is different. Some folk need to get that and accept it. Game irks me as much as any in the last 5 years. Not the defeat so much as the manner of it.

[blackpoolhibs]

I continue to be perplexed at your move towards being the voice of reason on here....:greengrin:greengrin
:greengrin I can be as miserable as anyone, but i do need a reason. :timebomb:

[J-C]

If you have an awful day at work before you go on holiday do you let it spoil it? Do you dwell on bad days at the office?

Sure as **** they don't because if they did it would be so all consuming it would eat them alive.

I have this guy on ignore and he still replies to me for some reason, I only see his reply on my phone which is a pain, always better on my laptop as his comments are hidden.

[MWHIBBIES]

I have this guy on ignore and he still replies to me for some reason, I only see his reply on my phone which is a pain, always better on my laptop as his comments are hidden.:faf:


Some of them are busy drinking cocktails on holiday. I think they are managing to not be too depressed. mainly because they know its finished and the most important thing is to remove it from your memory and start again. Being upset about a football game 2 weeks later just doesnt make much sense. We shouldnt even be thinking about it now.

I don't cancel holidays after making a mistake at work. The mistake still bothers me, though. They are hardly going to post selfies of themselves depressed are they?

[Peevemor]

:faf:

I don't cancel holidays after making a mistake at work. The mistake still bothers me, though. They are hardly going to post selfies of themselves depressed are they?

I'm on his ignore list too apparently. We obviously don't meet the criteria to be in the grumpy gang.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm on his ignore list too apparently. We obviously don't meet the criteria to be in the grumpy gang.

I'd laugh less without him. A very angry poster, especially when called out for posting rubbish.

[ahibby]

I want to put on the record that those of us who were or still are annoyed because of the cup final, are not annoyed/concerned because of the result. If we had shown up and played alright then I doubt as many would have grumbled. The result isn't the issue. What is the issue is that we had so many games, too many games in cup and at ER in the league when we just didn't turn up, didn't even look like a team who knew how to win those games. He's had a full season to sort out that inconsistency but hasn't. Those who believe he will learn from that performance have misplaced their beliefs, from his comments post matches, it's all down to fine margins. Even Tanner and wee Tam apologised for some of those home performances which we saw on HibsPass. All of those cup games when we didn't turn up were seen by many on tv and highlights. It would have been worse if fans had access to the ground for games because more fans would have seen how low we can go. I remember JR apologising once for us falling below standard in a home game, but it's happened more than once and he never did apologise for that no show cup final, it was all just down to fine margins, not team/tactics selection, not being able to motivate the players to do what he wanted, nothing only fine margins. Having said all that I understand without anyone telling me that we won't get perfection. Is a bit more consistency too much to ask for though? It's not as though we have a young team out, which you'd expect inconsistency from, most of our team are seasoned and highly experienced players. Over the season the majority of tv pundits with far more experience in that level of football than I have, have said we are a good team, obviously in an SPFL context and I accept that as fact. I would have taken 3rd place and another SC final appearance at the start of the season and would have deemed that as a successful season, so shouldn't grumble. It's annoying though to have that SC slip out of our reach in the manner that it did, which was typical of some other performances we witnessed last season. So nothing had changed. The coming season will be a big season for us, but of course every season is. I will be looking for more consistency, fewer games when we have big fails and if we get that I'll accept whatever we achieve or don't achieve.

[WeeRussell]

I don’t mind admitting I’m more excited for the Euros next week than I was before the cup final. Some of that is due to it being a coronavirus season and just not having the same attachment to football every week and it never feeling quite like a Scottish cup final the same it had in previous years. Whereas the lost feeling of Scotland being at a tournament returning (as well as loving international tournaments anyway) has got me really up for things again… I’m hoping that isn’t curbed by the pandemic as well.

Beauty of it is although I’m more excited, there’s little chance of me ending up feeling as disappointed as the cup final did, as expectations are much lower.

[jacomo]

Not so bad that you got two finals out of it, what other semi did we win?:greengrin


I’m just making stuff up now clearly!

[Brightside]

:faf:



I don't cancel holidays after making a mistake at work. The mistake still bothers me, though. They are hardly going to post selfies of themselves depressed are they?

They are professional footballers - they will be fine.

[MWHIBBIES]

They are professional footballers - they will be fine.

Do professional footballers not have personal lifes, struggles and stresses like everyone else?

[Brightside]

Do professional footballers not have personal lifes, struggles and stresses like everyone else?

You are arguing something that really doesnt need to be argued. A professional sportsman knows how to take the disappointment of losing a game and thats not to wallow in it for 2/3 weeks.

[MWHIBBIES]

You are arguing something that really doesnt need to be argued. A professional sportsman knows how to take the disappointment of losing a game and thats not to wallow in it for 2/3 weeks.

Does anything need to be argued?

That isn't the case for every one of them. As many articles and interviews with sportsmen and women over the last few years as showed. Some really struggle with it. Some take a few weeks, some take days, some take years.

[calumhibee1]

Does anything need to be argued?

That isn't the case for every one of them. As many articles and interviews with sportsmen and women over the last few years as showed. Some really struggle with it. Some take a few weeks, some take days, some take years.

:agree:

Lewis Stevenson said in time for heroes that he immediately thought ‘here we go again’ when we went behind in the final. The idea that these things don’t have an impact on players and that it’s completely forgotten about within days/weeks purely because they’re professional football players is nonsense.

[Brightside]

Does anything need to be argued?

That isn't the case for every one of them. As many articles and interviews with sportsmen and women over the last few years as showed. Some really struggle with it. Some take a few weeks, some take days, some take years.

OK

[superfurryhibby]

:agree:

Lewis Stevenson said in time for heroes that he immediately thought ‘here we go again’ when we went behind in the final. The idea that these things don’t have an impact on players and that it’s completely forgotten about within days/weeks purely because they’re professional football players is nonsense.

Got to agree with this. Of course players are affected by the psychological impact of things that happen on the field, we hear this all the time, from players and managers. There will be some who care more and some for whom it's water off a professionals ducks back.

WE could probably have a good stab at guesstimating a hurt-o-meter on here and not be that far wrong. I would say that guys like Stevenson and Hanlon who are so invested in Hibs will always regret that they didn't make history by becoming double Scottish Cup winners. They may have removed the hair shirt and underpants, sipped a few cocktails by the pool, polished their 2016 winners medal, but I would imagine it's not just water under the bridge to them.

[J-C]

I dont think anyone's suggesting fans and players aren't hurting after a cup final loss but surely there cames a time we have to stop lingering and look forward. We have a new season approaching with probably players leaving and coming in, let's hope the management and team can move us in the right direction.

[Brightside]

I dont think anyone's suggesting fans and players aren't hurting after a cup final loss but surely there cames a time we have to stop lingering and look forward. We have a new season approaching with probably players leaving and coming in, let's hope the management and team can move us in the right direction.

Exactly. If Hanlon and Stevenson are still mopping about the house i reckon their wives will probably give them a slap and send them to the supermarket for the groceries.

[WeeRussell]

Exactly. If Hanlon and Stevenson are still mopping about the house i reckon their wives will probably give them a slap and send them to the supermarket for the groceries.

Most people's wives would be very grateful for them doing the mopping :confused:

[Jones28]

Most people's wives would be very grateful for them doing the mopping :confused:
:faf::faf:

[Brightside]

Most people's wives would be very grateful for them doing the mopping :confused:

Thats very sexist.

[jacomo]

Thats very sexist.


Nah, just bad spelling.

:wink:

[Brightside]

Nah, just bad spelling.

:wink:

Always struggled with that. :wink:

[WeeRussell]

Thats very sexist.

Not at all. I would have said it the other way round as I’m sure husbands would be grateful too. It was you that said husbands were mopping and being sent to shops.