Ayr, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Dundee Utd, Hearts etc

[Sammy7nil]

Can anyone put their finger on why despite new Owners , CEO, Managers, players, why are we so weak mentally and physically it must be passed down generation to generation I just don’t under stand why ?

And before folk shout Brora etc can you seriously name a team that under performes as much as Hibs?

Hearts 4-0 and 5-1 when it counts 🙈 lose yes but for **** sake getting stuffed is unacceptable.

Yet here we are again now four defeats in a row against St Johnstone no goals scored.

Aberdeen sacked their manger for finishing fourth despite having credits in the bank.

Should Jack be under pressure for finishing third in a very poor league?

For me after today the jury is out 🙁

[Zambernardi1875]

After we got beat by hearts I said Ron Gordon is a good businessman and Jack Ross is bad for business. After watching his interview during the week I’m more convinced the direction he wants to take hibs far succeeds Jack Ross ability to take us there. COVID was a disruption to his plans, Jack Ross is a stop gap.

[Swedish hibee]

PSG. For all their money, what have they won? And Sunderland. If you think, we've got it bad today...

[matty_f]

This is nonsense. Seriously??

Were we weak mentally when we won the championship, the semi final, the must-wins v Aberdeen?

[Sammy7nil]

PSG. For all their money, what have they won? And Sunderland. If you think, we've got it bad today...

Yeah let’s accept it because teams not even our country have failed despite PSG winning nine in a row 🙈

[Sammy7nil]

This is nonsense. Seriously??

Were we weak mentally when we won the championship, the semi final, the must-wins v Aberdeen?

Yes we are weak and I won’t let anybody tell me different I have followed Hibs for 55 years or more and the very occasional win in important games does not make us strong. The continual loses make us weak and other teams know it.

[matty_f]

Yes we are weak and I won’t let anybody tell me different I have followed Hibs for 55 years or more and the very occasional win in important games does not make us strong. The continual loses make us weak and other teams know it.

:aok:

[Logie Green]

This is nonsense. Seriously??

Were we weak mentally when we won the championship, the semi final, the must-wins v Aberdeen?

The OP has a point. Our record in ‘big’ games i.e. Semi Finals and Finals is very poor.

In addition the reason we were able to win the Championship was because we were mentally weak in the play-off against Hamilton.

[Killiehibbie]

I know every other team hopes they get us in the cup final.

[matty_f]

The OP has a point. Our record in ‘big’ games i.e. Semi Finals and Finals is very poor.

In addition the reason we were able to win the Championship was because we were mentally weak in the play-off against Hamilton.

That’s not all about mentality though, and it ignores all the occasions where we’ve won tough, important games.

[matty_f]

I know every other team hopes they get us in the cup final.

When did you do that survey?

[IberianHibernian]

Is list beginning with Ayr supposed to be of supposedly weaker teams than us that we`ve lost to in cups this century ?
If so , today`s result ( and for me more the performance as I was expecting a defeat ) was a bad one but we`ve had relatively few bad ones in cups in last 20 odd years . With McInnes in charge , Aberdeen did well in league but had a lot of cup defeats against supposedly weaker teams . Ross may become a new McInnes - regularly 3rd or 4th but no cup glory .

[Sammy7nil]

When did you do that survey?

Today

[Killiehibbie]

When did you do that survey?

It stands to reason given our record.

[SlickShoes]

Is getting the to latter stages of cups consistent underperforming?

[Swedish hibee]

Yeah let’s accept it because teams not even our country have failed despite PSG winning nine in a row 🙈

You know I meant in Europe, not the French league.

[Sammy7nil]

Is list beginning with Ayr supposed to be of supposedly weaker teams than us that we`ve lost to in cups this century ?
If so , today`s result ( and for me more the performance as I was expecting a defeat ) was a bad one but we`ve had relatively few bad ones in cups in last 20 odd years . With McInnes in charge , Aberdeen did well in league but had a lot of cup defeats against supposedly weaker teams . Ross may become a new McInnes - regularly 3rd or 4th but no cup glory .

Well that is good should we really expect defeat to St Johnstone with an average average crowd minus old firm 3 to 4 thousand?

I suppose we should just be thankful to win any game ?

[Sammy7nil]

Is getting the to latter stages of cups consistent underperforming?

Yes

[Logie Green]

That’s not all about mentality though, and it ignores all the occasions where we’ve won tough, important games.

Mentality is a big factor in big games.

In my supporting time we’ve lost far more big games than we’ve won, which I think is the gist of the OP’s point.

[matty_f]

Mentality is a big factor in big games.

In my supporting time we’ve lost far more big games than we’ve won, which I think is the gist of the OP’s point.

It’s a factor, but it’s not necessarily been the factor in all the defeats listed. It’s a lazy argument that can’t be backed up. It’s easy to say “the team is weak” if you only consider the times we’ve been beat and you only attribute those defeats to mentality.

[SlickShoes]

Well that is good should we really expect defeat to St Johnstone with an average average crowd minus old firm 3 to 4 thousand?

I suppose we should just be thankful to win any game ?

It's sport, competition and if you don't perform well enough you don't win.

No one has any right to beat anyone, should Scotland just not bother going to the Euros because everyone in our Group is ranked much higher and have objectively better teams?

We shouldn't expect to beat anyone.

[Sammy7nil]

Is getting the to latter stages of cups consistent underperforming?

Yes if losing to Ayr Dunfermline Dundee Utd Ross C Falkirk and Hearts regularly is the norm

[SlickShoes]

Yes

How do you get there in the first place then?

[Zambernardi1875]

It’s a factor, but it’s not necessarily been the factor in all the defeats listed. It’s a lazy argument that can’t be backed up. It’s easy to say “the team is weak” if you only consider the times we’ve been beat and you only attribute those defeats to mentality.

And you’re argument was to say we won the championship. Completely forgetting we got relegated first then waited until rangers and hearts beat us first.

[matty_f]

How do you get there in the first place then?

Luck, presumably. Definitely not by being strong mentally.

[Sammy7nil]

It's sport, competition and if you don't perform well enough you don't win.

No one has any right to beat anyone, should Scotland just not bother going to the Euros because everyone in our Group is ranked much higher and have objectively better teams?

We shouldn't expect to beat anyone.

I agree we shouldn’t expect to beat anyone yet we regularly lose to almost everyone in important games with the odd exception

[Sammy7nil]

:gwa:
Luck, presumably. Definitely not by being strong mentally.

👍

[matty_f]

And you’re argument was to say we won the championship. Completely forgetting we got relegated first then waited until rangers and hearts beat us first.

It was an example to counter the list of defeats, it doesn’t forget anything. It’s called balance.

We beat Hamilton 0-2 in the relegation play off. How strong must the mentality have been that night!!

[SlickShoes]

I agree we shouldn’t expect to beat anyone yet we regularly lose to almost everyone in important games with the odd exception

So which Scottish cup games this season were important? just the final? final and semi? earlier rounds?

You can pick and choose what you class as big games and basically make it negative.

The main reason other teams don't have as many high profile losses as we do is because they don't get there in the first place.

[Gordy M]

Hearts, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St Mrren and StJohnstone.......the teams that have beaten the all conquering Rangers team in the last 3 years in domestic cups. It happens.

[Sammy7nil]

So which Scottish cup games this season were important? just the final? final and semi? earlier rounds?

You can pick and choose what you class as big games and basically make it negative.

The main reason other teams don't have as many high profile losses as we do is because they don't get there in the first place.

Ha ha that is a new one. Not picking and choosing any but if think round of 16 carries the same weight as a final your having a giraffe. Hibs Stranraer in the 4th round or Hibs in the final v anyone take your pick I terms of importance

[Killiehibbie]

So which Scottish cup games this season were important? just the final? final and semi? earlier rounds?

You can pick and choose what you class as big games and basically make it negative.

The main reason other teams don't have as many high profile losses as we do is because they don't get there in the first place.

Is there another team reached double figure final appearances and only managed to win 20% of them.

[matty_f]

Is there another team reached double figure final appearances and only managed to win 20% of them.

Think how bad all the other teams’ mentalities must be to not be reaching those stages!

[Sammy7nil]

Hearts, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St Mrren and StJohnstone.......the teams that have beaten the all conquering Rangers team in the last 3 years in domestic cups. It happens.

Was that in the final?

[Sammy7nil]

Think how bad all the other teams’ mentalities must be to not be reaching those stages!

I would give u a straw but I am not sure you could grab it. 🙈

[Gordy M]

Was that in the final?

Nope werent good enough to get to the final, when they reached one they "bottled" it against Celtic.......

[Sammy7nil]

Nope werent good enough to get to the final, when they reached one they "bottled" it against Celtic.......

So not against Livingston, Ross C or St Johnstone 🙈

[Dobosz83]

It’s unacceptable and the fact it’s predictable is more infuriating. Today was a disgrace from each and everyone of the team and coaching staff (Besides Macey).

Any Hibs fan making excuses for this feeble performance and looking for excuses does my tits in. There’s no excuse. We lost another golden opportunity to lift a cup. This club is now stuck in 2016 mode, it’s not progressive, it’s lacklustre. Everything is sound as we done it a few years ago...

That was pitiful today, Ross made a mess of it tactically, I’m so disappointed and the effort from them all was non-existent. Losing is one thing, treating a cup final like a training exercise and laughing about losing at full time as Boyle was isn’t acceptable.

Today was a Hibs performance, no matter what era we review in the last 40 years, which was a A **** show..

[Zambernardi1875]

Nope werent good enough to get to the final, when they reached one they "bottled" it against Celtic.......

Getting to a final and getting beat by Celtic is acceptable. Getting to numerous finals and not turning up has to be questioned why.

[TRC]

So which Scottish cup games this season were important? just the final? final and semi? earlier rounds?

You can pick and choose what you class as big games and basically make it negative.

The main reason other teams don't have as many high profile losses as we do is because they don't get there in the first place.

The closer to the final the bigger the game surely,? I mean depends on how you quantify a big game is it tickets sales (not this year) opponents (Hearts Rangers) if we had gone out against St Johnstone in the 4th round we’d be disappointed, but the soft mentality accusations wouldn’t be poignant because it wasn’t a final. Or I may have misunderstood?

[Gordy M]

So not against Livingston, Ross C or St Johnstone 🙈

Nah they got beat of St Johnstone in the quarters so never made the final.......did Ross Co not knock out celtic? Im not sure what your point is? Its ok to get knocked out early in the cups so we dont get beat in the final.......really, that seems to be your point?

[Killiehibbie]

Think how bad all the other teams’ mentalities must be to not be reaching those stages!

1 out of 4 this century that we've even been competetive. I can take getting beat but at least go down fighting.

[matty_f]

It’s unacceptable and the fact it’s predictable is more infuriating. Today was a disgrace from each and everyone of the team and coaching staff (Besides Macey).

Any Hibs fan making excuses for this feeble performance and looking for excuses does my tits in. There’s no excuse. We lost another golden opportunity to lift a cup. This club is now stuck in 2016 mode, it’s not progressive, it’s lacklustre. Everything is sound as we done it a few years ago...

That was pitiful today, Ross made a mess of it tactically, I’m so disappointed and the effort from them all was non-existent. Losing is one thing, treating a cup final like a training exercise and laughing about losing at full time as Boyle was isn’t acceptable.

Today was a Hibs performance, no matter what era we review in the last 40 years, which was a A **** show..

I’d be amazed if you see anyone making excuses for that today. It was brutal.

[Smartie]

Part of any weak mentality that may or may not exist is the belief in a weak mentality.

We’ve had teams and squads who were bursting with character, leadership, never say due attitude etc, some very recently.

This current lot are lacking in something and I can’t quite put my finger in what, but a belief amongst our own supporters that any sort of weakness exists within the club as a whole is the biggest part of any weakness that might exist.

[Sammy7nil]

Nah they got beat of St Johnstone in the quarters so never made the final.......did Ross Co not knock out celtic? Im not sure what your point is? Its ok to get knocked out early in the cups so we dont get beat in the final.......really, that seems to be your point?

Yeah that seems to be my point. And if you are an apologist for cup final displays like today and against Livingston Ross County Hearts and Celtic when we were trounced in both hey ho 🙈

[matty_f]

Yeah that seems to be my point. And if you are an apologist for cup final displays like today and against Livingston Ross County Hearts and Celtic when we were trounced in both hey ho 🙈

Who is apologising for the performance today?

Pretty much all over the forum folk agree that it was unacceptable, pish, disgraceful - i might have missed a post here and there but I’ve not seen anyone apologising for the performance of saying it was fine etc.

[Sammy7nil]

1 out of 4 this century that we've even been competetive. I can take getting beat but at least go down fighting.

I agree today there was nothing other than one shot from Irvine that he must do better with.

[Gordy M]

Yeah that seems to be my point. And if you are an apologist for cup final displays like today and against Livingston Ross County Hearts and Celtic when we were trounced in both hey ho 🙈

Who is an apologist, today was horrific, my point was that teams can lose one off cup games, but id rather get to the semis and finals and have a chance rather than knocked out in the 4th round which seems to ve acceptable to a few on here.

[Just_Jimmy]

I know every other team hopes they get us in the cup final.is that except rangers and killie?



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Sammy7nil]

Who is apologising for the performance today?

Pretty much all over the forum folk agree that it was unacceptable, pish, disgraceful - i might have missed a post here and there but I’ve not seen anyone apologising for the performance of saying it was fine etc.

Seek out Gordys post

[matty_f]

Seek out Gordys post

Gordy that’s very clearly not apologising for today?

[Sammy7nil]

Nah they got beat of St Johnstone in the quarters so never made the final.......did Ross Co not knock out celtic? Im not sure what your point is? Its ok to get knocked out early in the cups so we dont get beat in the final.......really, that seems to be your point?

I thought this was apologetic for today. Sorry if I got that wrong

[Killiehibbie]

[QUOTE=Just_Jimmy;6575805]is that except rangers and killie?



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

Scottish Cup finals the only one we played in was 2016. Add League Cups and it's slightly better.

[matty_f]

Glad you agree mate, but your posts appear to suggest we we ought to be ok with losing another final.

That **** shot today was a disgrace. A gutless performance that smacked of a group of players that couldn’t give a toss. I was less angry after 2012, at least they were just ***** don’t a dab of unlucky. That, today, was bull**** and I couldn’t give a crap if any of them get their desired moves next week.

Not sure where I’ve said anywhere that today was ok or that we should be ok with losing it?

We were ****ing brutal, the team shat the bed and never turned up. I’m as pissed off as I’ve ever been at a performance.

[Joe6-2]

Yes we are weak and I won’t let anybody tell me different I have followed Hibs for 55 years or more and the very occasional win in important games does not make us strong. The continual loses make us weak and other teams know it.

This in big shovelfuls!!

[Gordy M]

I thought this was apologetic for today. Sorry if I got that wrong

Its fine, its absolutely not, today was awful, worst ive seen us in a while, however i dont think Ross should be sacked after this season.

[cabbageandribs1875]

After we got beat by hearts I said Ron Gordon is a good businessman and Jack Ross is bad for business. After watching his interview during the week I’m more convinced the direction he wants to take hibs far succeeds Jack Ross ability to take us there. COVID was a disruption to his plans, Jack Ross is a stop gap.


i bet that went down well :greengrin

[#2 Double Tap]

Can anyone put their finger on why despite new Owners , CEO, Managers, players, why are we so weak mentally and physically it must be passed down generation to generation I just don’t under stand why ?

And before folk shout Brora etc can you seriously name a team that under performes as much as Hibs?

Hearts 4-0 and 5-1 when it counts �� lose yes but for **** sake getting stuffed is unacceptable.

Yet here we are again now four defeats in a row against St Johnstone no goals scored.

Aberdeen sacked their manger for finishing fourth despite having credits in the bank.

Should Jack be under pressure for finishing third in a very poor league?

For me after today the jury is out ��


The problem is still with the midfield, 8 center mids on our books and we struggle to field a mix of 2 or 3 who compliment each other. Our sit back and invite pressure instead of pushing up and pressing makes us so dull and slow. that comes from the managers game plan and tactical approach.

The reason we have lost big winnable games in the past has usually been down to bad management nothing else and today was no different. imo

[Sammy7nil]

Its fine, its absolutely not, today was awful, worst ive seen us in a while, however i dont think Ross should be sacked after this season.

Not saying he should be sacked at FWIW I would keep him for now. But our performances against Hearts and St Johnstone need to be scrutinised and questioned. And when they are he will not come out well.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think anything was wrong in terms of metality today. We were just utter pish.

People might argue that a failure to turn up is donw to metality. I'm not sure I agree, I think we are simply a team that collectively struggles against a side like St Johnstone.

[ED Hibee]

Our record in cup finals is both depressing and shocking. Played in 25 and won 6.
St Johnston played in 4 and won 3
Hearts played 23 won 12
Aberdeen 31 won 13

Only Dundee Utd come close having played 17 and only won 4.

Probably down to the fact that finals are often very cagey affairs and as we never seem to have a solid defence we very rarely come out on top. Still cannot believe Ross went with Porteous over Mcgregor he should have been the first name on the team sheet.

[Dobosz83]

Not sure where I’ve said anywhere that today was ok or that we should be ok with losing it?

We were ****ing brutal, the team shat the bed and never turned up. I’m as pissed off as I’ve ever been at a performance.

You’ve basically suggested in this thread that we should be happy that we can get to the lofty heights of losing big games as other clubs in this country can’t.

[Sammy7nil]

Our record in cup finals is both depressing and shocking. Played in 25 and won 6.
St Johnston played in 4 and won 3
Hearts played 23 won 12
Aberdeen 31 won 13

Only Dundee Utd come close having played 17 and only won 4.

Probably down to the fact that finals are often very cagey affairs and as we never seem to have a solid defence we very rarely come out on top. Still cannot believe Ross went with Porteous over Mcgregor he should have been the first name on the team sheet.

Absence of Darren made no difference today

[matty_f]

You’ve basically suggested in this thread that we should be happy that we can get to the lofty heights of losing big games as other clubs in this country can’t.

No I’m not. I’m saying that the fact we get to those stages shows that mentality isn’t the issue. If our mentality is bad, imagine how ***** the other teams who don’t reach those stages must be.

[Just_Jimmy]

Our record in cup finals is both depressing and shocking. Played in 25 and won 6.
St Johnston played in 4 and won 3
Hearts played 23 won 12
Aberdeen 31 won 13

Only Dundee Utd come close having played 17 and only won 4.

Probably down to the fact that finals are often very cagey affairs and as we never seem to have a solid defence we very rarely come out on top. Still cannot believe Ross went with Porteous over Mcgregor he should have been the first name on the team sheet.how many of ours are against the old firm? genuine question.

saints 2 are this season and 1 was 2014, stats are easy to skew when you're a top cup side one season and win both finals. it's not sustained success.

Aberdeen, I'm guessing, but I bet their successes will be around Ferguson time? I'm 35 and I don't remember them winning much.

hearts... apart from 98 and against us I can only think of Gretna. league cup ... hahahaha

we always get there we just forget to turn up, maybe we should pretend the final is a semi final

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Dobosz83]

No I’m not. I’m saying that the fact we get to those stages shows that mentality isn’t the issue. If our mentality is bad, imagine how ***** the other teams who don’t reach those stages must be.

Who are those other teams though? Since the turn of the millennium we’ve lost to Celtic, Livingston, Hearts, Celtic, Ross County and now, St Johnstone. 3 of those clubs shouldn’t be in the chat, and I’m not including the diabolical semi final matches against Aberdeen, Falkirk, Dunfermline and also, St Johnstone.

This club, despite its resources, underachieves on steroids. Its a embarrassment. Sadly, besides 2016, it’s got its own phrase ‘Hibsed it’ - unfortunately, it seems despite a new owner, mediocrity is ok.

[Sammy7nil]

No I’m not. I’m saying that the fact we get to those stages shows that mentality isn’t the issue. If our mentality is bad, imagine how ***** the other teams who don’t reach those stages must be.

Yeah Stranraer East Fife etc must be kicking themselves 😂 please don’t shirk thiis Jibs for 50 years or more have had a budget advantage over all but four teams. Motherwell, St J and others have regularly finished above us can’t be a coincidence

[matty_f]

Yeah Stranraer East Fife etc must be kicking themselves 😂 please don’t shirk thiis Jibs for 50 years or more have had a budget advantage over all but four teams. Motherwell, St J and others have regularly finished above us can’t be a coincidence

Sound.

[Killiehibbie]

Who are those other teams though? Since the turn of the millennium we’ve lost to Celtic, Livingston, Hearts, Celtic, Ross County and now, St Johnstone. 3 of those clubs shouldn’t be in the chat, and I’m not including the diabolical semi final matches against Aberdeen, Falkirk, Dunfermline and also, St Johnstone.

This club, despite its resources, underachieves on steroids. Its a embarrassment. Sadly, besides 2016, it’s got its own phrase ‘Hibsed it’ - unfortunately, it seems despite a new owner, mediocrity is ok.
Hearts, Airdrie, Aberdeen, Motherwell, Clyde

[Biggie]

Who are those other teams though? Since the turn of the millennium we’ve lost to Celtic, Livingston, Hearts, Celtic, Ross County and now, St Johnstone. 3 of those clubs shouldn’t be in the chat, and I’m not including the diabolical semi final matches against Aberdeen, Falkirk, Dunfermline and also, St Johnstone.

This club, despite its resources, underachieves on steroids. Its a embarrassment. Sadly, besides 2016, it’s got its own phrase ‘Hibsed it’ - unfortunately, it seems despite a new owner, mediocrity is ok.

That's a great post.....despite our resources, we consistently fall short.....its infuriating.

Why are we so weak ?
25 finals 6 wins !!...Holy ****.....that's not this team, that's hibs over the years!....

We clearly don't have a winning mentality....all very well having these quotes on the walls, but it's on the park we need drive, desire, steel.
Paul Hanlon must be the most insipid captain in our history....
This was a day for Mcgregor....
Nisbet, JHC...selected for the euros !
Boyle, brutal again....500k release clause, please.

No cohesion, 3 Separate units, with the main tactic, play it across the back, then shell it up the park...fantastic

Hibs man, they don't make it easy.


St johnstone have got our number....my god, 4 in a row....st johnstone, 4 in.a.row.

[Scotty Leither]

It was an example to counter the list of defeats, it doesn’t forget anything. It’s called balance.

We beat Hamilton 0-2 in the relegation play off. How strong must the mentality have been that night!!

Really, really strong. Until the second leg...of a play-off we should never have been in. Still, never mind, we can pick and choose our "mentality" when it suits us, eh?

[matty_f]

Really, really strong. Until the second leg...of a play-off we should never have been in. Still, never mind, we can pick and choose our "mentality" when it suits us, eh?

That’s exactly the point I’m making. Neither were about mentality on its own.

To label the whole club as forever mentally weak is wrong, and demonstrably so. That’s the point. Picking one or two wins as evidence of mental strength is as ridiculous as picking defeats to show mental weakness.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Who are those other teams though? Since the turn of the millennium we’ve lost to Celtic, Livingston, Hearts, Celtic, Ross County and now, St Johnstone. 3 of those clubs shouldn’t be in the chat, and I’m not including the diabolical semi final matches against Aberdeen, Falkirk, Dunfermline and also, St Johnstone.

This club, despite its resources, underachieves on steroids. Its a embarrassment. Sadly, besides 2016, it’s got its own phrase ‘Hibsed it’ - unfortunately, it seems despite a new owner, mediocrity is ok.

Is 3rd place mediocre? Or is cup wins the measure now?

It’s obviously easier to win 5 games in a row rather than achieve consistency over 38 games so maybe we should target that.

[Sammy7nil]

That’s exactly the point I’m making. Neither were about mentality on its own.

To label the whole club as forever mentally weak is wrong, and demonstrably so. That’s the point. Picking one or two wins as evidence of mental strength is as ridiculous as picking defeats to show mental weakness.

Far easier to demonstrate Hibs weakness have a wee peak at our Derby record especially our home Derby record.


Is 3rd place mediocre? Or is cup wins the measure now?

It’s obviously easier to win 5 games in a row rather than achieve consistency over 38 games so maybe we should target that.

Hibs seem to find it difficult to win 5 games in a row look at our cup record. We also seem to find it difficult to finish third In recent years we have found it easier to be relegated.

This was a poor league (Rangers unbeaten) and yes I know you can only beat what is in front of you. We lost so many home games Livvy Ross C Motherwell 7-0 on aggregate. Yet still comfortably finished third don’t know what that says about Hibs or the league.

I do know Aberdeen sacked their manager when finishing fourth.