Did we blow it or is the sad truth that St Johnstone are simply better than us?

[He's here!]

The League Cup semi-final result stunned me, but after I calmed down I convinced myself it was simply a freak result.

However, we've now faced St Johnstone three times since that game and lost every time, failing to score a single goal and never looking like taking anything from those games.

You could say the league table doesn't lie, but had St Johnstone not got off to such a rocky start to the season I'm pretty sure they'd have been challenging for third spot.

On paper it looks as though this season we have blown perhaps the greatest opportunities we'll ever have to win a couple of cups. However, four straight defeats to the same opposition indicates that no matter what tactics we deploy (and I refuse to believe Jack Ross doesn't work hard on his tactics for these games) St Johnstone were too good for us.

Doesn't make it any easier to stomach but perhaps it's just the simple truth.

[neil7908]

Next season will tell. I'd be interested to see points per game though since Davidson took over.

I'm certainly not looking forward to facing them again!

[HibeeHendo]

Ross set us up the same way the previous times we got beat of off them.

Nothing to do with ability, just a mixture of poor/naive gameplan and invisible key players.

[silverhibee]

We blew it, St Js aren’t better than us.

[Just_Jimmy]

We blew it, St Js aren’t better than us.results against them say different.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[sean04]

Next season will tell. I'd be interested to see points per game though since Davidson took over.

I'm certainly not looking forward to facing them again!

Sure the commentary mentioned 20 points out of 20odd? Only defeats were against Celtic rangers and Aberdeen? Might have picked it up wrong

[givescotlandfreedom]

Crapped it.

[loanheadhibby]

In a match situation, they are better than us. Over course of season, we managed to collect more points against other teams.

They have our number. They have Jack’s number.

They deserved to win but my goodness, it’s eye bleeding stuff.

[Dmas]

There better organized and better coached, man for man it isn't even close that's why its so frustrating

[Pretty Boy]

St Johnstone know how to beat us.

The manager done the same thing that has failed before and seemed to expect different results. The players were just *****.

[Irish_Steve]

The league position would suggest that we are the better team.

However, they appear to have our number and no goals against them in four games shows that they have a game plan and stick to it

[Crookie88]

Davidson has Ross's number similar to how McInnes had lennon's

[The Modfather]

We’re better then them over the course of a season, but head to head they are better than us. We help them by playing into their hands playing a slow, side to side, lopsided 442 with no left winger and Newell as one of the two.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Blew it.

Ross doesn't know how to mix it up.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

They deserved to win but my goodness, it’s eye bleeding stuff.

The eye bleeding stuff was from Hibs, they were disciplined, organised, always looked comfortable & took their chance when it came. Everything a football team should be able to do, and which we all knew we weren't going to do today if we are honest. Even if we were confident of winning, we know it was never going to be in style, or comfortable

[BT58]

We never turned up. Our so called wonder 3 of strikers never troubled their goalie. Our only real chance landed at a player who dosent really score many goals. Our best player was Macey who saved us. Need a big shake up , dare i say we need a new captain, someone who will drive us on
B

[IberianHibernian]

Next season will tell. I'd be interested to see points per game though since Davidson took over.

I'm certainly not looking forward to facing them again!He took over in June 2020 so has had the whole season so has a lower points per game than Jack Ross . St J seem to have made top 6 almost every year in last decade with several managers often after starting the season very badly .

[kaimendhibs]

We never turned up = blew it

[RoscoHibby]

Who in that St Johnstone team would you take over any of our players??

Think everyone is raging as the answer is none...they are a well drilled team who set up not to get beat and see what they can do from there.

We should all be angry at the naivety of Jack Ross not changing it as that game was the same as it has been against St J all season, barring 2-2 game, been same old story, we’ve created so little against them. Why the **** was Boyle playing so narrow?? The majority of our success has come from building down the right, creating an overload, with Newell shifted over a little and nisbet dropping in..fundamental to all this though is Boyle staying wide, why the **** was he coming inside so much, so we had 3 up top..and no ****ing way to get them the ball??

Such an opportunity missed.

To answer your question, with the difference in a good few of the starting 11 negligible, but most of our midfield/attack better than theirs, then the answer has to be we blew it. Meekly and terribly. Naively and with hardly laying a glove. Gutted.

[BT58]

Their captain Kerr perhaps...
B

[silverhibee]

results against them say different.

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League positions say different :greengrin

[easty]

There’s no such thing as a bogey team. We’re a better team than St Johnstone, we just haven’t turned up and put in the effort required when we’ve faced them.

Man City lost at home and drew away to Leeds this season.

[Unseen work]

They just have our number this season.

Their record of late is incredible, 4 losses in over 20 games or so? 2 of which to Celtic.

They very very rarely concede a goal and I can’t believe how often they Nick a win when they have strikers that hardly score - were the opposite.

We’ll lose players over the summer and get a good bit of money in for them, they’ll also lose quite a few but I can’t see them getting anywhere near the money.

Kerr, McCart and McCann will leave them id imagine and a good chance Wotherspoon and Gordon too.

[Paul1642]

We blew it. If we played well we would have won no matter what they done. Huge opportunity missed.

[IberianHibernian]

There better organized and better coached, man for man it isn't even close that's why its so frustrating
Agree about being better organized and coached but don`t think there`s much difference in the quality of the players and they always seem to have better options on the bench than us . many Hibs fans might say they wouldn`t want us to sign many if any St J players but I don`t think there are many in our squad who`d suddenly make St J in to a top 4 team . In my lifetime Hibs have won 1 SC and 3 LC . If we`d won today , it would certainly have been the worst Hibs team I`d seen win a cup . Reading criticism of our manager on other threads , without defending Ross , there`s a case for saying he`s done well to take such a limited team to 3rd .

[eastmainsmsh]

JR again Negative can’t change things far too often is the problem .Absolutely gutted by that performance today

[LeithMike]

Hibs made several changes and never ever looked the better side. Ross talks about trust in his players and picked the side he has for most of the season and it looked like they thought they just had to turn up and play their usual game.

Fergie always talked about winning the right to play football - win the battle first. Hibs never ever fought to get the upper hand.

Certainly didnt help playing 2 sitting midfielders leaving us unable to press as a team and our strikers isolated.

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[A Hi-Bee]

We blew it and handed them the cup, we should get our revenge by taking J. Kerr from them mabe even buy Rooney off them when Doig goes to A.C. Milan.

[KingPat4]

St Johnstone are better team than us, the facts bear that out.

They have a manager who is tactically astute and who uses his resources to suit the ability of his players.

But the question 'Do they have better players than us'? is different. Individually we are far better, but I've always though this team is less than the sum of it's parts. The system has got us third place in the league, but has never felt right. We need more intensity in our play.

[ancient hibee]

Lobbing balls 50 yards into the heart. of a good in the air defence is absolutely futile. It shouldn’t take 4 games to realise that.

[CJHibby]

Today we weren't good enough but I think we have enough ability to beat St.J. Everyone, players in particular need to take a good look at themselves after that display 😒

[Smartie]

I think they're better than us.

Good keeper, reliable, solid defence that is very well organised and simply doesn't make the mistakes that ours does.

Very good in the middle of the park.

In Wotherspoon and Middleton they have the players who can provide spark, create and provide at the other end. With them being so well organised, 1 goal will win them a lot of games so they don't even need that much more.

I actually think Kane for them is an absolute huddy - if they actually had a decent striker in the team they'd be much better.

They also have quality on the bench.

We've got Achilles heels and they know it. Porto is a galoot who makes gaffes under pressure and the majority of our side is physical, dour, ploddy and uninspiring so if we go a goal down it is highly unlikely we'll have enough to get back into the game. Nullify Boyle and we have nowt. Murphy is often injured and very hot and cold but he has a wee bit of guile, as did Scott Allan at one point (not sure if he still does). Their quality players like Wotherspoon and Middleton also work very hard, whereas we struggle to find teams that can carry the lethargy of the likes of Allan and Mallan.



There are positive aspects to our squad but it is certainly lacking in certain qualities. I don't think an entire clear out is required but we do need 3 or 4 players before I'd feel confident that we were a better side than St Johnstone, and I think we have some popular, high profile players that we might need to sacrifice if we're to get a team that's better than the sum of it's parts.

[chrisski33]

Both. Proved against us they are better and we blew it today

[Dmas]

Agree about being better organized and coached but don`t think there`s much difference in the quality of the players and they always seem to have better options on the bench than us . many Hibs fans might say they wouldn`t want us to sign many if any St J players but I don`t think there are many in our squad who`d suddenly make St J in to a top 4 team . In my lifetime Hibs have won 1 SC and 3 LC . If we`d won today , it would certainly have been the worst Hibs team I`d seen win a cup . Reading criticism of our manager on other threads , without defending Ross , there`s a case for saying he`s done well to take such a limited team to 3rd .


I agree with what your saying, I think it needs remembered that this is his team, even the players he didn't sign himself he's offered new deals and kept these guys on and in his post match interview he seemed more than happy to go with the same squad again next year if he could.
I don't think there will be many teams offering up decent money for any of their players and I wouldn't take any of theirs in the hibs team, even Jason Kerr who we're heavily linked with id rather play Daz he's far better IMO, we've lost today because we're very one dimensional in our play and the opposing team work harder and know there jobs much better than we do, its not the first time this season we've seen that kind of performance from hibs.

[Killiehibbie]

Could we maybe have looked at Celtic hammering them and maybe manage to at least trouble their keeper

[Saint Hibee]

Who in that St Johnstone team would you take over any of our players??

Think everyone is raging as the answer is none...they are a well drilled team who set up not to get beat and see what they can do from there.

We should all be angry at the naivety of Jack Ross not changing it as that game was the same as it has been against St J all season, barring 2-2 game, been same old story, we’ve created so little against them. Why the **** was Boyle playing so narrow?? The majority of our success has come from building down the right, creating an overload, with Newell shifted over a little and nisbet dropping in..fundamental to all this though is Boyle staying wide, why the **** was he coming inside so much, so we had 3 up top..and no ****ing way to get them the ball??

Such an opportunity missed.

To answer your question, with the difference in a good few of the starting 11 negligible, but most of our midfield/attack better than theirs, then the answer has to be we blew it. Meekly and terribly. Naively and with hardly laying a glove. Gutted.

Shaun Rooney. Best player on the pitch. Doig still in his back pocket.

[BT58]

They played as a team, we never. We played like 11 individuals. Macey being the only plus. Our forward line was so void of ideas it was pitiful. JR should have got a decent replacement in the January window, but never, instead sent The Hammer Gullan out on loan ??, we only have Boyle in whom has pace, ok weve signed a guy who has pace, but we need another this season. Our skipper PH, was he playing ??. Never saw him. I wanted DM to partner PH but actually thought RP was ok.only player who had pass marks was Macey imho.Good luck JR, hopefullyyou will spend wisely.
B

[Dmas]

Shaun Rooney. Best player on the pitch. Doig still in his back pocket.


Honking, Kirk Broadfoot reincarnate

[AgentDaleCooper]

their record of late against non-OF teams pretty much speaks for itself. They are very hard to break down and have pace to exploit gaps. This creates a dilemma IMO, because if you try to surge at them early to get a goal, you're just as likely to lose one at the other end, then they'll completely shut up shop. I reckon our plan might have been to keep it tight until gaps emerged later on in the game, which was maybe why we started off a bit pedestrian. it's a game plan that looks like we're not arsed, but it would make sense. obviously i have no idea if that's what we were trying to do, but i think it's fair to say that they're a difficult team to set yourself up against.

[RoscoHibby]

Shaun Rooney. Best player on the pitch. Doig still in his back pocket.

Who does he replace in the hibs team? He’s obviously been effective, but I’d like to think I know a player when I see one..sad times and indicative of our performance if that’s the case..

[Hibees1973]

We should have started with McGregor & Hallberg.

McGregor more reliable than Porteous. Hallberg a better footballer than Gogic. Who knows if it would have been better with these two but I sure would have been more hopeful at the start of the game.

What chance we have missed, could be years until we get another opportunity we have in the last two cups.

I think that Ross had been out thought by Davidson and got more out of his players the last three times we have played St Johnstone.

Just not good enough.

Gutted.

[Scotty Leither]

Blew it.

Ross doesn't know how to mix it up.

Exactly. It's a Cup Final, I get being cautious in the first 15 minutes, but we weren't set up to go at them at any point today.

Hallberg played well in the SF and is naturally more of an advanced midfielder than Gogic is, and Daz i'm sure would've left his mark on one of their players in the opening exchanges, in the manner that they do.

Two big calls for Ross that he got wrong, and the way the game panned out it was like watching one of the many training session games we've witnessed on TV this year...Hanlon to Porteous, Porteous to Hanlon, Hanlon to Newell, back to Porteous and then lumped up the park to Doidge who's buffetted by one of 3 centre halves, and none of the midfield advanced enough to pick 2nd balls up.

Naive in the extreme, but a performance that our team and manager have produced too often this past 18 months.

[loanheadhibby]

The eye bleeding stuff was from Hibs, they were disciplined, organised, always looked comfortable & took their chance when it came. Everything a football team should be able to do, and which we all knew we weren't going to do today if we are honest. Even if we were confident of winning, we know it was never going to be in style, or comfortable

I can’t disagree. I was more making the point, they are effective but I’d not want to watch that type of football every week. They are hugely difficult to beat and score very few goals.

As for Hibs, we are just terrible to watch.

[RossScott1991]

Worst kind of way to lose a cup final is to come away feeling like you never really felt like you could win it. That was that.

I’d have rather suffered a gut wrenching penalty shootout loss or a gut wrenching late goal .Atleast I would have felt we left ourselves in a position to try win the game and were atleast involved some sort.

That was an absolute whimper

[heretoday]

Saints were better on the day but they weren't exactly thrilling to watch either.
Let's face it - Scottish football is mince.

[KingPat4]

Saints were better on the day but they weren't exactly thrilling to watch either.
Let's face it - Scottish football is mince.


Compared to what?

[Since452]

St Johnstone are our bogey team who also happen to be a brilliant cup team

[wookie70]

They are better organised, better coached, better motivated, better at basics, better than the sum of their parts, better value for money and today were actually a better watch with the ball. Ross went with youth today and for me that was a mistake. We had three cup winners sat on the bench. Daz would have improved us quite a bit and also probably have made Hanlon better. I wanted Lewis to play as he defends far better and I always thought the only way we would get beaten was poor defending. That is how it turned out as we went 4 at the back and it doesn't work for us particularly down the wings. Doig was almost guaranteed to lose a back post header to Rooney and that cost us complete with the three pathetic pieces of defending by McGinn, Boyle and Gogic that meant the cross came in.

Ross, yet again, just got it all wrong. I have noticed how easily other teams win the second ball against us simply because of our formation. We spent the last 25 minutes launching ball after ball to Doidge who rarely wins a header unless he has a run at a defender. He actually did well to make defender header out weakly but their headers always started Saints attacks rather than producing possession high up the pitch because we don't play with anyone in an attacking central midfield position. This has been happening for weeks but never addressed.

Ross really needs to reflect on today's capitulation. That includes him looking at how easily a rookie manager turned him over yet again and his apparent lack of ability in motivating players for a big occasion. We have done OK this year. We have got to the semis 3 times and once reached a final. All three of those cup runs could have produced a trophy as the opposition left to play were lesser in terms of league position or going through a terrible spell. We turned up for the Dundee Utd game and a half of the Hearts and St Js semis. Apart from that we were a complete mess. That is far too many poor shows to be a coincidence so it needs to be looked into.

[Mickey Weir]

Saints are better than us. We've been lucky to finish 3rd this season and next season will be even harder with a depleted squad.

Im gutted after today, we simply cannot handle the big games when it matters.

[timewilltell]

Lobbing balls 50 yards into the heart. of a good in the air defence is absolutely futile. It shouldn’t take 4 games to realise that.

Agreed, but the truth is we don't have enough quality midfielders who have the skill to unlock a good defence.

[Northernhibee]

Saints are better than us. We've been lucky to finish 3rd this season and next season will be even harder with a depleted squad.

Im gutted after today, we simply cannot handle the big games when it matters.

We’ve not been lucky to finish third, we have accumulated more points than any other team outwith the OF this season, with an attack and defence that is favourable to most of the league. What a weird comment.

[MWHIBBIES]

They're a big side who score from crosses and defend well, that's about it. They aren't better, they just do the basics better and have a genuine plan, however simple

[Alfred E Newman]

When I asked a St Johnstone supporting friend if he was confident of winning given their record against us, he said not really but they will all get stuck in and give it 100%.
That is the difference.

[PolmontHibby]

Not better.but only 4 losses in 24 is decent by any standards.....and pretty much the same points wise since January, therefore I make it roughly the same after their dire start to the season.
I think we have the better quality overall (in theory) which is why we were slight bookies favourite to win today....but didn't turn up.

[Dmas]

When I asked a St Johnstone supporting friend if he was confident of winning given their record against us, he said not really but they will all get stuck in and give it 100%.
That is the difference.

Exactly the difference it’s what got them the only goal of the game

[Killiehibbie]

When I asked a St Johnstone supporting friend if he was confident of winning given their record against us, he said not really but they will all get stuck in and give it 100%.
That is the difference.

Giving 100% should be what every player gives. Our players weren't up to the challenge.

[IberianHibernian]

Not better.but only 4 losses in 24 is decent by any standards.....and pretty much the same points wise since January, therefore I make it roughly the same after their dire start to the season.
I think we have the better quality overall (in theory) which is why we were slight bookies favourite to win today....but didn't turn up. i don`t think there`s much difference if any in quality between the teams . What quality is there in either team really ?
Goalies - neither goalie made a difficult save except perhaps Macey at penalty .
Defenders - St J defended in numbers and know what they`re doing . Our defence was hardly quality . We were hard to score against earlier in the season but none of our defenders are standouts even in the Scottish league .
Midfield - didn`t see any quality in either side today ( perhaps a few touches from Newell and McCann ? ) . In the league matches players like Liam craig looked better or at least more effective than our midfielders .
Forwards - Boyle has been ineffective against St J all season ( except perhaps occupying 2 or 3 defenders ) . Doidge and Nesbit have probably scored more goals than St J strikers but doubt difference is much . Hardly a big difference in quality .

[Lago]

We blew it, St Js aren’t better than us.
Sorry, they are.

[chrisski33]

We’ve not been lucky to finish third, we have accumulated more points than any other team outwith the OF this season, with an attack and defence that is favourable to most of the league. What a weird comment.

Not weird in my opinion. St.johnstone have proved they are better than us when theyve played us. We were pretty lucky to get 3rd.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

We've lost 3/5 @ times v St Johnstone before today. We lost again. Our manager and team failed to beat them again. Both our manager and players must take full responsibility. They have all failed.

[matty_f]

St Johnstone were much better than us today. We were *****, they skooshed it. They are a team who knows exactly what they do and they do it very well.

We hadn’t a clue how to beat them. The whole team, from Manager down, had a shocker today.

[WhileTheChief..]

They finished 18 points behind us. Let’s not bum them up too much.

We were just rank today.

[Johnny_Leith]

They've got our number and their players wanted it more than ours.

Look at booth throwing himself into 50/50s. Spoonys tears during his interview.

They were willing to put their body in where it hurt and run through the proverbial brick walls for each other.

We looked like our players met each other yesterday and thought that they'd just give up and let us win.

Second to every second ball. Lost every big challenge. Didn't put the work in.

We've been beaten by better teams in finals before. We've been unlucky in finals before. I can accept losing in both those scenarios.

But to ****ing not even try? That's what today felt like and I'm absolutely disgusted in the players and management. Regret committing to a season ticket already.

[turn and burn]

Blew it.

Ross doesn't know how to mix it up.

It’s as simple as this.

[sorrow sorrow]

Open your eyes to this joker.
We all love our team but stop listening to his excuses.
Get rid off now.
Heckingbottam would have got this team to third and he is in my top 3 worst managers in my lifetime

[Inconsequential]

Open your eyes to this joker.
We all love our team but stop listening to his excuses.
Get rid off now.
Heckingbottam would have got this team to third and he is in my top 3 worst managers in my lifetime Oh yes, Mr Heckingbottom or as he was known Heckingbottomsix. Sure he would have got Hibs in third place! In the championship. :agree:

I know who the real joker is... ��

[Danderhall Hibs]

They finished 18 points behind us. Let’s not bum them up too much.

We were just rank today.

:agree: they were lucky to make top 6 and lucky to scrape 5th place. None of which is relevant to today which was a game of 1st goal the winner.

[h1bs4life]

:agree: they were lucky to make top 6 and lucky to scrape 5th place. None of which is relevant to today which was a game of 1st goal the winner.

Even without today they qualified for Europe through the league . We have played 6 times and never laid a glove on them

[hibee92]

It’s St Johnstone 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[CockneyRebel]

Even without today they qualified for Europe through the league . We have played 6 times and never laid a glove on them



We played them 6 times this season. The last match at ER was played after we knew we had them in the SC final. That's a dress rehearsal FFS! What did we learn from that match? Sweet FA. We played our cup final opponents and then ignored their tactics, their game plan and the result and then set about them exactly the same way in the final.

They are a solid, disciplined side but they don't win every game they play. So where is the analysis of their defeats? Where are the ideas derived from that analysis to counter the way they set up? Not rocket science but apparently beyond our manager and the coaching staff to alter our approach.

Total let down to a loyal support.

[Just_Jimmy]

Irvine has to score. he scores and it's different, in fact I believe we'd have gone on to win.

the importance of the first goal was huge, it's been done to death but I think we've one game from behind all season?

i can't remember a team that the first goal mattered so much almost the point that if we get it we win if we don't it's as well switching off the TV and doing something else.

Irvine HAD to score. same in the semi final we missed so many chances then they go up and score.

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[Sir David Gray]

Irvine has to score. he scores and it's different, in fact I believe we'd have gone on to win.

the importance of the first goal was huge, it's been done to death but I think we've one game from behind all season?

i can't remember a team that the first goal mattered so much almost the point that if we get it we win if we don't it's as well switching off the TV and doing something else.

Irvine HAD to score. same in the semi final we missed so many chances then they go up and score.

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Yeah one win all season after losing the first goal. I had a feeling that the game was done as soon as they scored and that's exactly how it turned out.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yeah one win all season after losing the first goal. I had a feeling that the game was done as soon as they scored and that's exactly how it turned out.

Ross County and Alloa, thats at least 2. Probably the one 2.

[Just_Jimmy]

Yeah one win all season after losing the first goal. I had a feeling that the game was done as soon as they scored and that's exactly how it turned out.yup, felt same in the semi too and fortunately we got it.

it's just absolutely pish and there's clearly an issue when it's as bad a trend as that. a lot of the reaction has been over the top but the day after with a clearer head, there's clearly issues and things to correct.



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[Just_Jimmy]

Ross County and Alloa, thats at least 2. Probably the one 2.so two, issue solved then?

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[Sammy7nil]

St Johnstone are better team than us, the facts bear that out.

They have a manager who is tactically astute and who uses his resources to suit the ability of his players.

But the question 'Do they have better players than us'? is different. Individually we are far better, but I've always though this team is less than the sum of it's parts. The system has got us third place in the league, but has never felt right. We need more intensity in our play.

The league table does not bear that out.

I don’t think ST J were great yesterday they scored their goal Hibs never challenged thereafter, they won. Are they really ahead of Hibs I think the jury is well and truly still out.

[Sir David Gray]

Ross County and Alloa, thats at least 2. Probably the one 2.

Yep you're right I was just thinking of league games.

[Onion]

Hibs looked beat from the start. Far too passive, negative, slow, with key players in hiding. Tactically inept. We failed to win any one-on-one battles, St J took control treated it like a Cup Final.

St J did well and deserved the win but they're no more than a competent unit. Those Hibs players should be having nightmares about that game for years to come.

[MWHIBBIES]

so two, issue solved then?

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Who said that?

[Tommy75]

Not weird in my opinion. St.johnstone have proved they are better than us when theyve played us. We were pretty lucky to get 3rd.

I don't think we were lucky to come third at all. We were up there all season and over 38 games accumulated 7 more points than Aberdeen and 18 points more than St Johnstone. No luck involved.

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't think we were lucky to come third at all. We were up there all season and over 38 games accumulated 7 more points than Aberdeen and 18 points more than St Johnstone. No luck involved.
Agreed.


SJ proved it over 4 games but we were lucky over 38. Such rubbish. Plenty reasons to moan at Hibs right now without making them up. We finished 3rd by miles for a reason.

[CMurdoch]

St J have most of their players under contract for next season but a lot end in a years time.
How many will agree to a years extension?
If they can get enough to sign up for even another year it will be interesting to see how they go next season then they might be able to sell the best ones and the manager off at that point.