Booing of players taking the knee

[gbhibby]

Watching the English football last night fans at some grounds booing players taking the knee. Racism is alive and well in England.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Let’s see how we fare on our return we can’t afford complacency. Does Scotland always folks live up to the oft quoted phrase “we’re all Jock Tamson’s Bairns”?

[Gypsy King]

Watching the English football last night fans at some grounds booing players taking the knee. Racism is alive and well in England.

Its a load of nonsense and hasn't/didn't achieve anything anyway. Don't know why you would boo it though.

[Greencore]

Watching the English football last night fans at some grounds booing players taking the knee. Racism is alive and well in England.
Politics/religion should be no where near football.

[The Modfather]

I was saying boo-urns!

[SChibs]

Politics/religion should be no where near football.

I don't think anti racism falls under politics or religion. Its just being a good human being

[bigwheel]

I don't think anti racism falls under politics or religion. It just being a good human being

[emoji119][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

[Northernhibee]

I don't think anti racism falls under politics or religion. It just being a good human being

This, very much.

[danhibees1875]

I was saying boo-urns!

:greengrin

[CanonHannon]

Watching the English football last night fans at some grounds booing players taking the knee. Racism is alive and well in England.

Unfortunately it is. Why would you booooo a cause for equality?

[ABZHFC]

Politics/religion should be no where near football.


You support a football club who were founded for explicitly political/religious reasons

[Andy74]

Unfortunately it is. Why would you booooo a cause for equality?

I’d imagine in their minds it is the gesture rather than the general cause they are booing. If that’s what’s happened.

[gbhibby]

I have heard the excuse for the booing that it should not black lives matter but all lives matter. It was noticeable at the Chelsea and Man Utd game. Chelsea did not surprise me their fans booing, but Man Utd was a surprise.

[hibsitis]

I’d imagine in their minds it is the gesture rather than the general cause they are booing. If that’s what’s happened.

Why would you boo the gesture if you agreed with its aims?

[Jones28]

I have heard the excuse for the booing that it should not black lives matter but all lives matter. It was noticeable at the Chelsea and Man Utd game. Chelsea did not surprise me their fans booing, but Man Utd was a surprise.

“All lives matter” is the racists “not all men”.

[SChibs]

I have heard the excuse for the booing that it should not black lives matter but all lives matter. It was noticeable at the Chelsea and Man Utd game. Chelsea did not surprise me their fans booing, but Man Utd was a surprise.

People who say 'all lives matter' are just morons though. If someone was raising money for cancer research would they shout 'all diseases matter' at them?

[Sammy7nil]

People who say 'all lives matter' are just morons though. If someone was raising money for cancer research would they shout 'all diseases matter' at them?

Don’t disagree with your position but calling people Morons is unhelpful.

[CapitalGreen]

Don’t disagree with your position but calling people Morons is unhelpful.

I doubt they’ll see his post.

[SChibs]

Don’t disagree with your position but calling people Morons is unhelpful.

Yeah, you are right. It's just something that frustrates me

[WeeRussell]

Don’t disagree with your position but calling people Morons is unhelpful.

Might not be helpful but it’s not inaccurate either.

[Andy74]

Why would you boo the gesture if you agreed with its aims?

People can conceivably disagree with racism in any way but not agree that football should be continuing with this gesture before every game.

Wouldn’t be the method I’d choose but what other avenues do fans have of making their feelings known on it?

It is a complex area that can’t just be equated to either being for or against racism itself.

[Andy74]

People who say 'all lives matter' are just morons though. If someone was raising money for cancer research would they shout 'all diseases matter' at them?

I’m sure they wouldn’t do that but it isn’t really the same. If there was a gesture, however well intentioned, before every football match in relation to cancer research then you might end up after some time with some reaction or discussion about whether it was still having impact or if it was right for it to be the only cause that was being focused on.

[Speedy]

People who say 'all lives matter' are just morons though. If someone was raising money for cancer research would they shout 'all diseases matter' at them?

"They" are not morons. Instinctively for a lot of people "All lives matter" is a show of solidarity. Admittedly not everyone has that same agenda but it is a lot more nuanced than you are putting across.

[SaulGoodman]

You support a football club who were founded for explicitly political/religious reasons

Aye 146 years ago, times change.

[hibsitis]

People can conceivably disagree with racism in any way but not agree that football should be continuing with this gesture before every game.

Wouldn’t be the method I’d choose but what other avenues do fans have of making their feelings known on it?

It is a complex area that can’t just be equated to either being for or against racism itself.

It's really not complex. If you're against racism you're not going to boo someone protesting racism.

[AliboyFC]

Watching the English football last night fans at some grounds booing players taking the knee. Racism is alive and well in England.

Just cos you are booing a bunch of football players taking the knee doesn't mean you are racist.

[TelaStella]

Don’t disagree with your position but calling people Morons is unhelpful.

It’s the booing that’s unhelpful, not somebody calling them out for being morons.


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[TelaStella]

Just cos you are booing a bunch of football players taking the knee doesn't mean you are racist.

Interesting mate, how’d you interpret it?


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[Hibernianinc]

"They" are not morons. Instinctively for a lot of people "All lives matter" is a show of solidarity. Admittedly not everyone has that same agenda but it is a lot more nuanced than you are putting across.

Disagree.

I’ve only heard it put by folk who are demonstrably racist in outlook.

Saying it undermines the objective point that black lives are more at risk due to systematic racism throughout the institutional structures in operation.

The folk booing are morons. Racist ones at that.

[gbhibby]

Just cos you are booing a bunch of football players taking the knee doesn't mean you are racist.
What does it mean then? Why would you boo it? Recent articles have indicted the UK still has issues with racism.
Reminds me of a Rangers fan I know who sings sectarian songs but says he is not a bigot

[WeeRussell]

Just cos you are booing a bunch of football players taking the knee doesn't mean you are racist.

Must be a lot of people really don’t like knees then.

[WeeRussell]

"They" are not morons. Instinctively for a lot of people "All lives matter" is a show of solidarity. Admittedly not everyone has that same agenda but it is a lot more nuanced than you are putting across.

A show of solidarity against people trying to tackle racism. Any defence of people giving it the “all lives matter” retort is ridiculous and pathetic, in my opinion.

[Andy74]

What does it mean then? Why would you boo it? Recent articles have indicted the UK still has issues with racism.
Reminds me of a Rangers fan I know who sings sectarian songs but says he is not a bigot

Not the same at all. If they were singing racist songs they’d be racist.

You’d have to take the views of those booing to know why but there are different views about whether taking the knee it is now being done for the right reasons.

Rightly or wrongly some also think it is linked only to BLM and not everyone agrees with some of the other stuff on their UK fund raising website such as dismantling capitalism and taking down the police.

I think it is useful for football and the likes of Sky to understand what people might be reacting to rather than the over simplification that the booing is racist in nature.

[gbhibby]

Not the same at all. If they were singing racist songs they’d be racist.

You’d have to take the views of those booing to know why but there are different views about whether taking the knee it is now being done for the right reasons.

Rightly or wrongly some also think it is linked only to BLM and not everyone agrees with some of the other stuff on their UK fund raising website such as dismantling capitalism and taking down the police.

I think it is useful for football and the likes of Sky to understand what people might be reacting to rather than the over simplification that the booing is racist in nature.

You make a good point on the other stuff in the BLM agenda. But put yourself in the position of a Black player taking the knee and your fans booing the players for doing it how is that action going to be viewed by that player. There are fans of Chelsea with racist and bigoted views and align themselves with The Rangers.
It might be an oversimplification but why boo the players doing it.

[HFC_NYC]

The mistake at the outset was telling all and sundry that the players would be taking the knee in support of BLM. Had it been announced that before games, players would be kneeling in support of their black colleagues and to show that racism is not welcome in football (or society in general), I very much doubt there would be any booing.

[Scouse Hibee]

You support a football club who were founded for explicitly political/religious reasons

But unlike the dinosaurs from the West, we have moved on.

[The Harp Awakes]

Aye 146 years ago, times change.

Times have indeed changed since 1875 and mostly for the good thankfully.

However, we should never undervalue the role Hibernian played in the late 19th century in standing up for those who were institutionally discriminated against.

The fight goes on in 2021 and all attempts eradicate racism, sectarianism and prejudice should be applauded whether taking the knee or other.

Yet another mass display of bigotry in Glasgow at the weekend by Rangers fans tells us all that we have got a long way to go to sorting things out.

All football clubs in Scotland need to unite and make a stand against sectarianism. There are screwballs in every support but Rangers in particular need to be held to account to eradicate the cancer which is rife throughout their club and supporters.

[The Harp Awakes]

But unlike the dinosaurs from the West, we have moved on.

Moved on from what exactly? From standing up for the underprivileged and discriminated against?

What is it you think Hibernian FC did wrong in 1875?

[basehibby]

We had a thread about this months ago when there were similar booings at another English game somewhere (Millwall?)

While no-one agreed with the booing a fair proportion of those posting - myself included - felt the taking the knee gesture had run it's course even back then. There are always a plethora of iniquities happening around the world. In recent weeks for example there have been numerous outrages happening in Israel/Palestine which, awful though it was, far outweigh the murder of George Floyd in both scale and moral turpitude.

Of course George Floyd's murder should not be considered in isolation as it was a turning point - a straw that broke the camel's back. But should we not also be having protests in recognition of the people being evicted from their homes in Jerusalem and the resultant escalating slaughter? How many straws does it take to break that camel's back?

Taking the knee in solidarity was a noble gesture in the aftermath of Floyd's murder but the longer it's gone on the more it's taken on an air of obligation and the appearance of a piece of corporate virtue signalling with football/footballers as the pawns. And while the phrase "all lives matter" has taken on a kind of doublespeak air of racist negativity over the last year it remains hypocritical to value one kind of suffering over another.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Disagree.

I’ve only heard it put by folk who are demonstrably racist in outlook.

Saying it undermines the objective point that black lives are more at risk due to systematic racism throughout the institutional structures in operation.

The folk booing are morons. Racist ones at that.

this kind of debate is really annoying. it's obviously stupid to be boo-ing players taking the knee, and emboldens racism, but writing off everyone who does the 'all lives matter' spiel as morons is very unconstructive. the whole point is to raise awareness and change minds, and you don't change minds with insults - it's arguable that you actually make the problem worse.

i also know some people who are absolutely not racist, but unfortunately are very into their conspiracy theories, and have their own reasons, which to me seem a bit bonkers, to be against this stuff...calling them 'stupid' only pushes them away though, and is often totally inaccurate. the world is bloody complicated these days, and IMO writing people off as this, that or the other thing is only going to make things worse.

[Rottenstink]

I don't think anti racism falls under politics or religion. Its just being a good human being

Check BLMs website and tell me they have no political agenda

[Crunchie]

What does it mean then? Why would you boo it? Recent articles have indicted the UK still has issues with racism.
Reminds me of a Rangers fan I know who sings sectarian songs but says he is not a bigot
The vast majority of us have joined in on some unsavoury songs in our lifetime, it doesn't make us anything other than an idiot at the time.

[SChibs]

Check BLMs website and tell me they have no political agenda

As far as I'm aware the players are kneeling to reinforce the message that black lives matter. Not as as a direct show of support to the organisation black lives matter.

[CapitalGreen]

The mistake at the outset was telling all and sundry that the players would be taking the knee in support of BLM. Had it been announced that before games, players would be kneeling in support of their black colleagues and to show that racism is not welcome in football (or society in general), I very much doubt there would be any booing.

In that case then you’d be very naive but then again you voted for Donald Trump TWICE so I think we already knew that.

[Northernhibee]

We also have to remember that a former president of the US went off on one on Twitter against NFL players taking the knee.

Sport didn’t get involved in politics, politics got involved with sport.

[Jones28]

Moved on from what exactly? From standing up for the underprivileged and discriminated against?

What is it you think Hibernian FC did wrong in 1875?

I dont want to put words in to Scouses' mouth but I would say we have entirely moved on from the religious elements that resulted in the formation of the club, whilst still holding on to the parts of the club you mention, and expanding on those significantly.

[J-C]

Theres still a lot of racism in England, the recent booing proves that and the fallout from Brexit has shown us the underlying racism deep down inside many parts of the UK, particularly England.

[Tyler Durden]

Taking the knee has been highlighted to be about fighting racial inequality - that's been the case for maybe 8/10 months or more now. It's explicitly stated at the beginning of every game FFS. There is no mention of Black Lives Matter.

It's really tiresome to still see people talking about a "Black Lives Matter" website and their political views. Generally as a way of justifying people being against taking the knee or anti racism campaigns. Anyone continuing to do so, to detract from a basic message of ending racial inequality deserves to be called a moron. They've been duped by Nigel Farage and his ilk rather than spending 5 minutes to educate themselves.

[Hibernianinc]

this kind of debate is really annoying. it's obviously stupid to be boo-ing players taking the knee, and emboldens racism, but writing off everyone who does the 'all lives matter' spiel as morons is very unconstructive. the whole point is to raise awareness and change minds, and you don't change minds with insults - it's arguable that you actually make the problem worse.

i also know some people who are absolutely not racist, but unfortunately are very into their conspiracy theories, and have their own reasons, which to me seem a bit bonkers, to be against this stuff...calling them 'stupid' only pushes them away though, and is often totally inaccurate. the world is bloody complicated these days, and IMO writing people off as this, that or the other thing is only going to make things worse.

While I ‘get’ the complexities at play, racism is something you can make a binary call on.

Folk having ambiguous reasons for how they perceive the world, fine.
I’d argue they’re not the ones taking the positive action of actively boo-ing their own players.

Those who do should be called out for what is unacceptable behaviour.

All lives matter is a precursor to this, and actively legitimises the booing.

Whatever drives someone to position themselves there, IMO has stepped into the wrong side of that binary position.

[Since90+2]

Theres still a lot of racism in England, the recent booing proves that and the fallout from Brexit has shown us the underlying racism deep down inside many parts of the UK, particularly England.

There is also a lot of casual racism in Scotland too, particularly in the older age groups in my experience.

[Andy74]

While I ‘get’ the complexities at play, racism is something you can make a binary call on.

Folk having ambiguous reasons for how they perceive the world, fine.
I’d argue they’re not the ones taking the positive action of actively boo-ing their own players.

Those who do should be called out for what is unacceptable behaviour.

All lives matter is a precursor to this, and actively legitimises the booing.

Whatever drives someone to position themselves there, IMO has stepped into the wrong side of that binary position.
Racism is binary, wouldn’t argue with that.

Opposing a gesture isn’t binary though and does not equate to racism.

I don’t know their reasons and I’m sure with fans coming back into stadiums that will play out more but dismissing it as racism is a mistake.

[The Modfather]

Taking the knee has been highlighted to be about fighting racial inequality - that's been the case for maybe 8/10 months or more now. It's explicitly stated at the beginning of every game FFS. There is no mention of Black Lives Matter.

It's really tiresome to still see people talking about a "Black Lives Matter" website and their political views. Generally as a way of justifying people being against taking the knee or anti racism campaigns. Anyone continuing to do so, to detract from a basic message of ending racial inequality deserves to be called a moron. They've been duped by Nigel Farage and his ilk rather than spending 5 minutes to educate themselves.

While I don’t really have a problem with taking of the knee either way. It does feel like it’s had its 15 minutes in the limelight and it’s now simply a pre match ritual to no effect. Much like renaming streets, that had its moment, was positive and relevant at the time but no one pays any attention to street names anymore.

Both of those things were good at raising awareness and discussion. However it’s been noticeable that the likes of Sky (as an example) seem to be tailoring off there coverage of debating racism. That’s the kind of place where the debate needs to be had and will keep up awareness, not token gestures like continuing to taking the knee. Why don’t Sportscene, MOTD, MNF etc not dedicate a set slot/part of a show each week to keeping the discussion going. Get ex players on to talk about their experiences, that’s far more relevant and relatable than things that have merely become part of the pre match routine IMO.

[Dalianwanda]

Politics/religion should be no where near football.

Its not politics, it's a request from one human to another to respect their rights as an equal....I do think its time to try something else though as the message is being overshadowed by the action

[Hibbyradge]

"Justice for the 96".

"Booooooo! Justice for everyone".

[Hibbyradge]

Racism is binary, wouldn’t argue with that.

Opposing a gesture isn’t binary though and does not equate to racism.

I don’t know their reasons and I’m sure with fans coming back into stadiums that will play out more but dismissing it as racism is a mistake.

What if a Rangers fan booed someone for crossing themselves?

[nonshinyfinish]

What if a Rangers fan booed someone for crossing themselves?

Maybe they just hate attention-seeking goal celebrations. :wink:

[J-C]

What if a Rangers fan booed someone for crossing themselves?

That's sectarianism, being Catholic isn't a race, this is all about the colour of their skin and where they come from. The concept of hating someone because of their skin or land of birth is something that I've never understood.

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe they just hate attention-seeking goal celebrations. :wink:

:na na:

Actually, you make my point very well. There could be no other interpretation of that behaviour other than the person in bigotted.

Same with booing the anti-racist gesture.

Saying otherwise makes you an apologist in my view.

[J-C]

There is also a lot of casual racism in Scotland too, particularly in the older age groups in my experience.

That can be true to an extent but less so than it used to be. Words were used that are now deemed inappropriate but were all too common back in the day, thankfully we're better educated now.

[Hibbyradge]

That's sectarianism, being Catholic isn't a race, this is all about the colour of their skin and where they come from. The concept of hating someone because of their skin or land of birth is something that I've never understood.

It's still bigotry though.

What reason can there be for booing people for taking the knee other than you disagree with the message?

Are there really so many people who can't wait a few seconds for the game to kick off that they'll actually boo?

[Scouse Hibee]

Moved on from what exactly? From standing up for the underprivileged and discriminated against?

What is it you think Hibernian FC did wrong in 1875?

Not sure how you interpret my post as you have done but to clarify I was referring to the religious bigotry that exists prominently in the West and the fact that religion doesn’t play a part in my support of Hibernian.

[J-C]

It's still bigotry though.

What reason can there be for booing people for taking the knee other than you disagree with the message?

Are there really so many people who can't wait a few seconds for the game to kick off that they'll actually boo?

To an extent, racism is a mistrust or hatred of the skin colour or birth place of individuals. Brexit and people like Farage have allowed all the little Englanders to show their deep rooted racism without fear of reprisals.

[HFC_NYC]

In that case then you’d be very naive but then again you voted for Donald Trump TWICE so I think we already knew that.

You can gtf with the insults. I guess your the type that preaches the need for more diversity, except when it comes to diversity of thought.

[Speedy]

A show of solidarity against people trying to tackle racism. Any defence of people giving it the “all lives matter” retort is ridiculous and pathetic, in my opinion.

For years the collective wisdom was that we are all the same regardless of race, gender, sexual preference. A generation was brought up to believe that we are all equal and as such 'all lives matter' was intended to show we are all in this to fight racism and we are indeed all equal.

Now granted, times have moved on. 'Colour blindness' is viewed as a problem and the collective wisdom on tackling racism has changed.

That doesn't take away from the well meaning people who aren't fully up to speed on the topic though and many do now understand the negative connotations more than they did initially.

And clearly there are some who are just having a dig 'do white lives not matter' etc., which is obtuse and argumentative.

IMO, being condescending and shouting moron at well meaning people just isn't the best pathway to progress.

[cheltenhamhibee]

I do agree that there is still abhorrent racism in football, alas it's far further spread and deep rooted than in just the game we all love, just out of interest would anyone call a black/coloured person who doesn't take the knee a racist ? Wasn't it Wilfried Zaha who said ''taking a knee is degrading, we should stand tall against racism'' An alternative view, but one I find myself agreeing with

[Hibbyradge]

I do agree that there is still abhorrent racism in football, alas it's far further spread and deep rooted than in just the game we all love, just out of interest would anyone call a black/coloured person who doesn't take the knee a racist ? Wasn't it Wilfried Zaha who said ''taking a knee is degrading, we should stand tall against racism'' An alternative view, but one I find myself agreeing with

I disagree with him. It's not degrading in the slightest.

It's a well established gesture against racism and the fact that it is more than a nod to the George Floyd murder makes it even more poignant.

[Hibbyradge]

You can gtf with the insults. I guess your the type that preaches the need for more diversity, except when it comes to diversity of thought.

He said that your thoughts were naive, not that you weren't entitled to hold them.

Isn't that diverse enough or does diversity require agreement?

Unless you think that it's insulting to have it pointed out that you voted for the racist, Trump, twice.

[Jones28]

It's still bigotry though.

What reason can there be for booing people for taking the knee other than you disagree with the message?

Are there really so many people who can't wait a few seconds for the game to kick off that they'll actually boo?

Exactly this.

Booing it has no other justification.

[cheltenhamhibee]

I disagree with him. It's not degrading in the slightest.

It's a well established gesture against racism and the fact that it is more than a nod to the George Floyd murder makes it even more poignant.

Who can say who is right and who is wrong ? Either way we agree there is no place for racism in any form in any walk of life

[Jones28]

You can gtf with the insults. I guess your the type that preaches the need for more diversity, except when it comes to diversity of thought.

Like thinking black people are inferior and Mexicans are rapists and robbers? That kind of diversity of thought?

[Hibernianinc]

Racism is binary, wouldn’t argue with that.

Opposing a gesture isn’t binary though and does not equate to racism.

I don’t know their reasons and I’m sure with fans coming back into stadiums that will play out more but dismissing it as racism is a mistake.

While I get the nuance, there’s a fundamental here.

Particularly when the context to that gesture has been clearly articulated and put in a clear position as to its objective.

For example, is someone choosing to boo as they’re opposed to the far-left views of Black Lives Matter as a political organisation, but have conflated that with the objective of the awareness raising gesture itself?

If so, I’d suggest they find out more before they start booing.

I’ll concede that the action may not therefore be explicitly racist. It is ignorant though, and it looks racist.

[Hibbyradge]

Who can say who is right and who is wrong ? Either way we agree there is no place for racism in any form in any walk of life

I didn't say anyone was wrong. I said I disagreed that taking the knee is degrading and explained why.

I'm 100% with you on your second line.

[CapitalGreen]

You can gtf with the insults. I guess your the type that preaches the need for more diversity, except when it comes to diversity of thought.

What exactly did I say that you found insulting? Me expressing my thought that your views are naive or pointing out that you voted for Trump on multiple occasions?

I welcome diversity of thought and respect people’s right to express them but at the same time I’m not going to shy away from challenging those thoughts if I disagree with them.

[HFC_NYC]

What exactly did I say that you found insulting? Me expressing my thought that your views are naive or pointing out that you voted for Trump on multiple occasions?

I welcome diversity of thought and respect people’s right to express them but at the same time I’m not going to shy away from challenging those thoughts if I disagree with them.

You implied that I’m naive for the crime of voting for the candidate I believed to be the better option in two US elections. Every time I post on a political thread here, my voting record gets dragged up as a means of invalidating my opinion. I’m sure you can imagine how tiresome that becomes.

[cheltenhamhibee]

I didn't say anyone was wrong. I said I disagreed that taking the knee is degrading and explained why.

I'm 100% with you on your second line.

I know you never said anyone was wrong, it wasn't a pop, just slightly different takes on things I guess :aok:

[Kato]

You implied that I’m naive for the crime of voting for the candidate I believed to be the better option in two US elections. Every time I post on a political thread here, my voting record gets dragged up as a means of invalidating my opinion. I’m sure you can imagine how tiresome that becomes.If you vote for someone who used racism to gain power people might think you share those views.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[HFC_NYC]

If you vote for someone who used racism to gain power people might think you share those views.

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Honest question here, do you genuinely believe there are over 74 million racists in America?

[jacomo]

You can gtf with the insults. I guess your the type that preaches the need for more diversity, except when it comes to diversity of thought.


You are entitled to vote for who you like. But your last line is the echo of the pathetic victim complex that many on the right are now trying to foster.

It is exactly movements like BLM and XR that are bringing genuine diversity of thought into the mainstream.

The old orthodoxy has remained unchallenged for so long and now that it is being questioned, Trump and his like are railing against it.

So please don’t play the victim card. It’s ridiculous and just demeans you.

[660]

Honest question here, do you genuinely believe there are over 74 million racists in America?

Yes

[CapitalGreen]

You implied that I’m naive for the crime of voting for the candidate I believed to be the better option in two US elections. Every time I post on a political thread here, my voting record gets dragged up as a means of invalidating my opinion. I’m sure you can imagine how tiresome that becomes.

You voted for someone TWICE who encouraged the ostracisation of sportspersons who took the knee and fought for racial equality before the BLM movement had even reached the mainstream. On that basis I’d say your voting record is highly relevant in the context of this discussion when you try and claim that people wouldn’t oppose the taking of the knee if it hadn’t been associated with BLM.

[JimBHibees]

While I get the nuance, there’s a fundamental here.

Particularly when the context to that gesture has been clearly articulated and put in a clear position as to its objective.

For example, is someone choosing to boo as they’re opposed to the far-left views of Black Lives Matter as a political organisation, but have conflated that with the objective of the awareness raising gesture itself?

If so, I’d suggest they find out more before they start booing.

I’ll concede that the action may not therefore be explicitly racist. It is ignorant though, and it looks racist.

You may not agree with the knee gesture however to me anyone booing it gives to me the impression of a racist intent to the booing. If you merely don't agree don't boo.

[Hibrandenburg]

Honest question here, do you genuinely believe there are over 74 million racists in America?

Depends. If you vote for a presidential candidate that is overtly racist, misogynist and an utter buffoon, then you are at least indirectly condoning racism and shouldn't be surprised that you are then seen as racist.

[bigwheel]

Honest question here, do you genuinely believe there are over 74 million racists in America?

Anyone supporting Trumps candidacy and agenda was supporting a racist and self interest agenda .

Trumps belief system is simply this : if some people have to be less well off, for us to thrive - then so be it - I don’t care as long as we are better off.

You can analyse it anyway which way you choose, but that is what Trump supporters voted for .

There is no empathy or room for equality and diversity in Trump’s belief system - and this value set is alive and well across vast elements of America today, as the number of votes suggest.

[The Harp Awakes]

Not sure how you interpret my post as you have done but to clarify I was referring to the religious bigotry that exists prominently in the West and the fact that religion doesn’t play a part in my support of Hibernian.

Ok no worries. By moving on, I thought you were inferring Hibs had done something wrong in 1875. Apologies.

[basehibby]

For years the collective wisdom was that we are all the same regardless of race, gender, sexual preference. A generation was brought up to believe that we are all equal and as such 'all lives matter' was intended to show we are all in this to fight racism and we are indeed all equal.

Now granted, times have moved on. 'Colour blindness' is viewed as a problem and the collective wisdom on tackling racism has changed.

That doesn't take away from the well meaning people who aren't fully up to speed on the topic though and many do now understand the negative connotations more than they did initially.

And clearly there are some who are just having a dig 'do white lives not matter' etc., which is obtuse and argumentative.

IMO, being condescending and shouting moron at well meaning people just isn't the best pathway to progress.

All lives always did and still do matter to right minded people. The negative connotations only arose as a result of people using the phrase to be confrontational specifically at BLM events. As a piece of straight forward unadulterated language though it still stands as a positive message and the message BLM is implicit in it. It's unfortunate that this connotation has arisen as it creates a confusing and contradictory message for children that is riddled with dilemma and likely to inspire either self hatred or more racism. Basically the idea that ALM is a racist message is a piece of double-think straight out of 1984. I hope in future that the statement that BLM is remembered from this era while the facile and, semantically speaking, racist notion that all lives somehow dont is consigned to the dustbin of history.

[Scouse Hibee]

Ok no worries. By moving on, I thought you were inferring Hibs had done something wrong in 1875. Apologies.

👍 No problem mate, thanks.

[Hibbyradge]

All lives always did and still do matter to right minded people. The negative connotations only arose as a result of people using the phrase to be confrontational specifically at BLM events. As a piece of straight forward unadulterated language though it still stands as a positive message and the message BLM is implicit in it. It's unfortunate that this connotation has arisen as it creates a confusing and contradictory message for children that is riddled with dilemma and likely to inspire either self hatred or more racism. Basically the idea that ALM is a racist message is a piece of double-think straight out of 1984. I hope in future that the statement that BLM is remembered from this era while the facile and, semantically speaking, racist notion that all lives somehow dont is consigned to the dustbin of history.

No-one has ever said that all lives don't matter. That has always been the case for all reasonable people.

However, some lives, i.e. black lives, were being treated as if they mattered less, hence the BLM campaign.

The "Justice for the 96" example I listed earlier is a good explanatory analogy.

No-one would ever say that "justice for everyone" wasn't a good value or principle, but using the expression in any discussion about what happened at Hillsborough would be undermining the 96 campaign.

"Black Lives Matter too" might have been a more convenient slogan, but it's incredible that it was needed.

[jacomo]

All lives always did and still do matter to right minded people. The negative connotations only arose as a result of people using the phrase to be confrontational specifically at BLM events. As a piece of straight forward unadulterated language though it still stands as a positive message and the message BLM is implicit in it. It's unfortunate that this connotation has arisen as it creates a confusing and contradictory message for children that is riddled with dilemma and likely to inspire either self hatred or more racism. Basically the idea that ALM is a racist message is a piece of double-think straight out of 1984. I hope in future that the statement that BLM is remembered from this era while the facile and, semantically speaking, racist notion that all lives somehow dont is consigned to the dustbin of history.


:agree:

[Islington Hibs]

Football is a sport and it is a very slippery slope when the game/ teams indulge in political posturing. You may, or you may not, support BLM but if you allow political gestures like 'taking the knee' why not allow others to support other causes like Palestine (as some have done quite inappropriately in my view ), Israel or dare I say aspects of the divide in Northern Ireland. Where does it stop. You may, or you may not, approve of BLM but should you support a political gesture taking place at games don't be surprised if others, who feel equally strongly, on some other subject seek to introduce their slogans into the game. Far better to keep politics out of sport all together.

[Hibbyradge]

Football is a sport and it is a very slippery slope when the game/ teams indulge in political posturing. You may, or you may not, support BLM but if you allow political gestures like 'taking the knee' why not allow others to support other causes like Palestine (as some have done quite inappropriately in my view ), Israel or dare I say aspects of the divide in Northern Ireland. Where does it stop. You may, or you may not, approve of BLM but should you support a political gesture taking place at games don't be surprised if others, who feel equally strongly, on some other subject seek to introduce their slogans into the game. Far better to keep politics out of sport all together.

Players aren't being abused on social media because of the middle east situation. They are being abused because of the colour of their skin, often during a game too.

If the racist filth keep their appalling politics out of the game, there might be a better case for keepibg football neutral although it would still be weak.

[Sammy7nil]

It’s the booing that’s unhelpful, not somebody calling them out for being morons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He did not call the booers Morons

[Kato]

Football is a sport and it is a very slippery slope when the game/ teams indulge in political posturing. You may, or you may not, support BLM but if you allow political gestures like 'taking the knee' why not allow others to support other causes like Palestine (as some have done quite inappropriately in my view ), Israel or dare I say aspects of the divide in Northern Ireland. Where does it stop. You may, or you may not, approve of BLM but should you support a political gesture taking place at games don't be surprised if others, who feel equally strongly, on some other subject seek to introduce their slogans into the game. Far better to keep politics out of sport all together.

Football has now a reasonably long history in actively fighting racism. Streches back to the 1980's. Adopting political causes across the board like the one you mention just isn't going to happen.

[Islington Hibs]

Football has now a reasonably long history in actively fighting racism. Streches back to the 1980's. Adopting political causes across the board like the one you mention just isn't going to happen.

There is a world of difference between give racism the red card which I think all reasonable people would support and BLM which has a radical left agenda well beyond racism.

[Kato]

There is a world of difference between give racism the red card which I think all reasonable people would support and BLM which has a radical left agenda well beyond racism.


I don't know if you've been reading the thread or paying attention in general but it's been stated many times that no-one is taking the knee on behalf of BLM the organisation, it's a general, anti-racist stance.

[wookie70]

There is a world of difference between give racism the red card which I think all reasonable people would support and BLM which has a radical left agenda well beyond racism.

I just don't see how they have a radical left agenda. They want to stop Black People being beaten up and treated differently by the authorities. Can you show me where their agenda if radical left. I can't see anything on either the .com or uk sites that is different to what any right minded person would want. Unless you think equality is a left wing thing, to be fair most of England does judging by the way they vote(not directed at you personally)

I can't understand why anyone would have an issue with taking the knee given that was a sporting anti-racism gesture to start with. I can far less see why anyone would boo it. I would suggest there is no difference between the message of give racism the red card and the messages BLM put out. Here is one I like on the UK site - It isn't about Black v White but anti-racism against racism. What is to boo about that

[Hibernianinc]

I don't know if you've been reading the thread or paying attention in general but it's been stated many times that no-one is taking the knee on behalf of BLM the organisation, it's a general, anti-racist stance.

👍

[hibsbollah]

BLM has a radical left agenda well beyond racism.

1. It doesn’t
2. Even if it did, it would be irrelevant because taking the knee is a completely separate gesture to BLM, as discussed about a hundred times.

[snedzuk]

I don't know if you've been reading the thread or paying attention in general but it's been stated many times that no-one is taking the knee on behalf of BLM the organisation, it's a general, anti-racist stance.

Doesnt look like that

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/webimg/b25lY21zOjkxMmQxMTdiLWZlZmEtNDE3Ny05NjY5LWIzOTVhOT dkYjVhNjozNTAwN2E0OC0wNjYxLTQ1NjYtYTY3Ni0yZjYzMWI5 YWUzYmE=.jpg?width=640&enable=upscale

[hibsbollah]

Doesnt look like that

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/webimg/b25lY21zOjkxMmQxMTdiLWZlZmEtNDE3Ny05NjY5LWIzOTVhOT dkYjVhNjozNTAwN2E0OC0wNjYxLTQ1NjYtYTY3Ni0yZjYzMWI5 YWUzYmE=.jpg?width=640&enable=upscale

Three words that really shouldn’t offend any right thinking person.

[Kato]

Doesnt look like that

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/webimg/b25lY21zOjkxMmQxMTdiLWZlZmEtNDE3Ny05NjY5LWIzOTVhOT dkYjVhNjozNTAwN2E0OC0wNjYxLTQ1NjYtYTY3Ni0yZjYzMWI5 YWUzYmE=.jpg?width=640&enable=upscale

Does the banner have anything to do with BLM the organisation?