Guaranteed Group stage football?

[CapitalGreen]

It was well reported in January that the Scottish cup winners will enter the Europa League in the Play Off round due to there being no previous winner of the Conference League. However looking on the wiki page for the Europa League 2021/22 and also the excellent Kassiesa.net site - both are now saying that Denmark and Russia are the nations to benefit from this and not Scotland anymore. Has something changed, did the SFA jump the gun in confirming this was the case?

“The Europa Conference League title holder spot in the Europa League group stage will not be used because it is the first season of the Europa Conference League. The access list will be re-balanced as follows:

The cup winner of Russia moves from EL-PO to EL-GS,
The cup winner of Denmark moves from EL-Q3 to EL-PO.”

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html

[Billy Whizz]

It was well reported in January that the Scottish cup winners will enter the Europa League in the Play Off round due to there being no previous winner of the Conference League. However looking on the wiki page for the Europa League 2021/22 and also the excellent Kassiesa.net site - both are now saying that Denmark and Russia are the nations to benefit from this and not Scotland anymore. Has something changed, did the SFA jump the gun in confirming this was the case?

“The Europa Conference League title holder spot in the Europa League group stage will not be used because it is the first season of the Europa Conference League. The access list will be re-balanced as follows:

The cup winner of Russia moves from EL-PO to EL-GS,
The cup winner of Denmark moves from EL-Q3 to EL-PO.”

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_UEFA_Europa_League

This still has countries 7-14 going in at Europa League at play off round

[Centre Hawf]

It was well reported in January that the Scottish cup winners will enter the Europa League in the Play Off round due to there being no previous winner of the Conference League. However looking on the wiki page for the Europa League 2021/22 and also the excellent Kassiesa.net site - both are now saying that Denmark and Russia are the nations to benefit from this and not Scotland anymore. Has something changed, did the SFA jump the gun in confirming this was the case?

“The Europa Conference League title holder spot in the Europa League group stage will not be used because it is the first season of the Europa Conference League. The access list will be re-balanced as follows:

The cup winner of Russia moves from EL-PO to EL-GS,
The cup winner of Denmark moves from EL-Q3 to EL-PO.”

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html

It may be that our highest Europa League spot (The Europa League playoff round) doesn't necessarily come under these changes and as such haven't been documented separately like the Russians or Danes. I very much doubt the SFA, even in their list inadequacies, has managed to get this one wrong

[Billy Whizz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_UEFA_Europa_League

This still has countries 7-14 going in at Europa League at play off round

This too from Hibspass on Saturday

[MunsterHibee]

I'd have thought if you get eliminated in the EL play off round you'd drop automatically into the next competition which is the Conference League group stage. Like if you drop out of the CL play off round you go in the EL group stage etc.

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[green day]

I'd have thought if you get eliminated in the EL play off round you'd drop automatically into the next competition which is the Conference League group stage. Like if you drop out of the CL play off round you go in the EL group stage etc.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

Thats true, but Bert Kassies site suggests that scottish cup winners are in the EL qualifying round (one before playoff) due to our rank.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/

[Heisenberg]

Thats true, but Bert Kassies site suggests that scottish cup winners are in the EL qualifying round (one before playoff) due to our rank.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/

Yeah that’s how I’ve read it.

[Billy Whizz]

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/qual2021.html

Drill down to this page, still showing as Cups Winners Europa League Q3

[Heisenberg]

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/qual2021.html

Drill down to this page, still showing as Cups Winners Europa League Q3

That’s the round before the playoff though is it not? If we lose in Q3 then we don’t drop into the Conference group stage.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_UEFA_Europa_League

This still has countries 7-14 going in at Europa League at play off round

If you look further down the list it has the Scottish Cup winners entering at the 3rd qualifying round not the play off, along with the Czech Cup winners.

[green day]

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/qual2021.html

Drill down to this page, still showing as Cups Winners Europa League Q3 Which is true, but if we lost that, we wouldnt go directly to the Group of conf, we would go to final play off round. These guys seem to have done the work, looked at the numbers and come up with this combo.

We (or St J) still have a chance, it depends on a few things tho -

https://i.imgur.com/rRpAjFg.png

[Billy Whizz]

If you look further down the list it has the Scottish Cup winners entering at the 3rd qualifying round not the play off.

Think you maybe right, seasons haven’t finished yet though

[JohnM1875]

Which is true, but if we lost that, we wouldnt go directly to the Group of conf, we would go to final play off round. These guys seem to have done the work, looked at the numbers and come up with this combo.

We (or St J) still have a chance, it depends on a few things tho -

https://i.imgur.com/rRpAjFg.png

So, providing we win the Scottish Cup we basically want Man City or Man United to win of of the current European cups?

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Think you maybe right, wonder what’s changed

Hmm, think it certainly needs to be clarifed. Edit. Looking at the post above it would appear the SC winners might still get the play off spot but not guaranteed.

[green day]

So, providing we win the Scottish Cup we basically want Man City or Man United to win of of the current European cups?

No, we want them to lose !

[Billy Whizz]

Hmm, think it certainly needs to be clarifed. Edit. Looking at the post above it would appear the SC winners might still get the play off spot but not guaranteed.

Think they are all based on assumptions, but until UEFA tournaments are finished, can’t be 100%

[bod]

No, we want them to lose !

Personally or for hibs benefit ?

[JohnM1875]

No, we want them to lose !

😂 I'm so lost.

[tamig]

I'd have thought if you get eliminated in the EL play off round you'd drop automatically into the next competition which is the Conference League group stage. Like if you drop out of the CL play off round you go in the EL group stage etc.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

Thats exactly what happens.

[CapitalGreen]

According to Bert we want Chelsea or Villarreal to win their finals.

“Chelsea wins CL OR Villarreal wins EL and they qualify for EL by domestic league:
empty spot in EL-GS: Bel-CW from EL-PO to EL-GS, Sco-CW from EL-Q3 to EL-PO,”

[green day]

Personally or for hibs benefit ?


For Hibs - couldnt give a shiney one about those competitions normally......................

[hulk]

No, we want them to lose !

Correct. Explanation here

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=5349&start=465

[CapitalGreen]

Thats exactly what happens.

Nobody has suggested otherwise, this is about what round we would enter which appears to have changed today.

[SChibs]

What has changed? The league coefficients for European qualification was decided before the season started?

[Hibs90]

Us or Saints screwed by UEFA. How dare they have a team from Scotland in the group stages of a competition :rolleyes:

[B.H.F.C]

If this is accurate, you’d still have to say we’d have a really good chance of group stage qualification. Worst case scenario would be a playoff for the Conference League if you lost in the third qualifying round of the Europa League. If you were dropping down from the Europa League you’d be hoping for a decent draw.

[Ryan91]

Seems like it was only just changed either today or yesterday, really poor from UEFA to be changing things as most seasons are wrapping up across Europe IMO.

[Anthony Soprano]

Kick in the teeth. We’ve went from guaranteed EL group stage to likely only getting in at EL Q3 meaning we’d have to win 2 ties (4 games) to get to EL group stage.

From my understanding the best we can hope for is Chelsea to win CL or Villarreal to win EL and qualify for EL in their domestic league and even then we’d only get a playoff spot provided we win the cup.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Correct. Explanation here

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=5349&start=465

I now get the gist of it, but looking at all those permutations gives me a right headache. Will just have to win the cup on Saturday and hope other results go our way.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Kick in the teeth. We’ve went from guaranteed EL group stage to likely only getting in at EL Q3 meaning we’d have to win 2 ties (4 games) to get to EL group stage.

From my understanding the best we can hope for is Chelsea to win CL or Villarreal to win EL and qualify for EL in their domestic league and even then we’d only get a playoff spot provided we win the cup.

We were never guaranteed EL group stage if we won the cup. If was EL playoff which if we lost we’d drop into the ECL group stage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Magpie]

No confirmation of this from UEFA? Just a poster on a forum claiming it to be true?

[SChibs]

Kick in the teeth. We’ve went from guaranteed EL group stage to likely only getting in at EL Q3 meaning we’d have to win 2 ties (4 games) to get to EL group stage.

From my understanding the best we can hope for is Chelsea to win CL or Villarreal to win EL and qualify for EL in their domestic league and even then we’d only get a playoff spot provided we win the cup.

We were never guaranteed Europa League football. We would have been going into the play off round

[Hibernian Verse]

No confirmation of this from UEFA? Just a poster on a forum claiming it to be true?

I'd put money on these guys being more up to date that UEFA. They know their coefficients, smart guys for sure.

[Anthony Soprano]

We were never guaranteed EL group stage if we won the cup. If was EL playoff which if we lost we’d drop into the ECL group stage.


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Ahh I assumed when people were talking about guaranteed group stage football they meant EL group stage, I now realise they meant Conference league

[JohnM1875]

Kick in the teeth. We’ve went from guaranteed EL group stage to likely only getting in at EL Q3 meaning we’d have to win 2 ties (4 games) to get to EL group stage.

From my understanding the best we can hope for is Chelsea to win CL or Villarreal to win EL and qualify for EL in their domestic league and even then we’d only get a playoff spot provided we win the cup.

So it's basically all on Chelsea if the guys right. Villarreal playing away Real Madrid last game and Real need a win to have a chance of the league. Villarreal also currently out the European places on head to head against Betis.

[CapitalGreen]

From reading the permutations -

If Chelsea win the Champions League we also need them to have finished 5th or 6th in the league. Chelsea are 4th currently a point ahead of Liverpool, they are away to Leicester tomorrow night so hopefully they drop points.

If Villarreal win the Europa League, we also need them to have finished 5th or 6th in the league. Villarreal are 1 point off 6th but are away to Real Madrid in their final game of the season so that looks unlikely.

[Anthony Soprano]

This is definitely the most complex the qualification process has ever been anyway

[mayo hibee]

No confirmation of this from UEFA? Just a poster on a forum claiming it to be true?

It's not just a random poster though. Bert Kassies is the oracle for this stuff. It looks like he has been passed this information from someone in UEFA, so it's highly likely to be true.

[Stuart93]

So can someone explain what scenario would lead to either us or st J getting the EL play off spot or is that not the case at all now regardless?

[Ryan91]

If this is accurate, you’d still have to say we’d have a really good chance of group stage qualification. Worst case scenario would be a playoff for the Conference League if you lost in the third qualifying round of the Europa League. If you were dropping down from the Europa League you’d be hoping for a decent draw.

If we lost in EL Q3 we'd drop in to the ECL playoffs but would likely be unseeded due to our coefficient

[Gloucester Hibs]

It's not just a random poster though. Bert Kassies is the oracle for this stuff. It looks like he has been passed this information from someone in UEFA, so it's highly likely to be true.

What specifically has changed in the past few days though? So many media outlets have run with the “cup winners guaranteed European football till Christmas” story for months now.

[SChibs]

If we lost in EL Q3 we'd drop in to the ECL playoffs but would likely be unseeded due to our coefficient

I'm not sure we would have much of a chance in the Conference play off. Its basically 7th place in Spain, Germany, England, Italy and 6th in France I think

[cabbageandribs1875]

so, if the unthinkable happens on saturday we end up going into the 2nd qualifying round in the conference...same round as aberdeen, what a freakin anti-climax winning our battle for 3rd


oops soz no it's not, conference group for cup runners-up

[mayo hibee]

So can someone explain what scenario would lead to either us or st J getting the EL play off spot or is that not the case at all now regardless?

We now need to win the cup AND

1. Chelsea win the Champions League AND qualify for the Europa League from the Premier League i.e. finish fifth or sixth

OR

2. Villarreal win the Europa League AND qualify for the Europa League from La Liga i.e. finish fifth or sixth

Otherwise the Scottish Cup winner goes in at Qualifying round 3 instead of the playoff round.

[JohnM1875]

So can someone explain what scenario would lead to either us or st J getting the EL play off spot or is that not the case at all now regardless?

We'd need;

Chelsea to win then Champions League and to finish 5th in the EPL

Or

Villarreal to win the Europa League and finish 6th in La Liga.

Either of those happen the Scottish Cup winners get moved to the Europa League play off spot.

[lord bunberry]

Has this been changed or has the previous calculation been wrong?

[Magpie]

It's not just a random poster though. Bert Kassies is the oracle for this stuff. It looks like he has been passed this information from someone in UEFA, so it's highly likely to be true.

From reading through it, it seems to me that Scotland’s cup winners have been demoted to a lower qualifying round so that cup winners of countries with a lower coefficient can be promoted to a higher qualifying round. Surely that can’t be right?

[JohnM1875]

Has this been changed or has the previous calculation been wrong?

Nothing confirmed by Uefa yet, but looks like they've carried out a 're-balance' earlier on today.

[Ryan91]

So can someone explain what scenario would lead to either us or st J getting the EL play off spot or is that not the case at all now regardless?

Our best bet is Villareal winning the Europa League, as they can't qualify for Champs League via league position. Chelsea winning the Champs League might also work should Man U win the Europa League instead, but Chelsea would need to finish 5th in the EPL.

[lord bunberry]

Nothing confirmed by Uefa yet, but looks like they've carried out a 're-balance' earlier on today.
That’s surely not allowed at this late stage.

[Ryan91]

I'm not sure we would have much of a chance in the Conference play off. Its basically 7th place in Spain, Germany, England, Italy and 6th in France I think

Would be a cracking trip like, but in these Covid times, unlikely to have travelling support abroad.

[HibeeSince85]

Why has this decision been made now and why is this even allowed?

[Stuart93]

Aye all sounds a bit ****ty. For me winning the cup is priority, anything that comes with it is a bonus whether it be guaranteed group football or not

[Magpie]

We'd need;

Chelsea to win then Champions League and to finish at least 5th in the EPL

Or

Villarreal to win the Europa League and finish at least 6th in La Liga.

Either of those happen the Scottish Cup winners get moved to the Europa League play off spot.

A lot to ask for. Man City and Man Utd favourites for each competition. Chelsea I expect to finish in the top four whilst Villarreal play Real Madrid in their last game and even then would be relying on Real Betis result.

Shame that this change is coming out now, even though I still don’t understand why these changes have been made.

[mayo hibee]

From reading through it, it seems to me that Scotland’s cup winners have been demoted to a lower qualifying round so that cup winners of countries with a lower coefficient can be promoted to a higher qualifying round. Surely that can’t be right?

Yes that's pretty much what happened.

We (Scotland) were always one spot outside the playoff round. However there was a spare place going as there would usually be a place available for the Europa Conference league winners in the Europa League. As there will be no conference league winner this season (because the competition hasn't started yet), it was widely understood that this would free up an extra place in the playoff round that the Scottish Cup winner would benefit from.

However it appears UEFA have now decided to allocate the extra place in a different way and the Scottish Cup winner will no longer be the beneficiary. So we now need the favour from Chelsea or Villarreal unfortunately it seems, to free up another place in the playoff round.

[Speedy]

Kick in the teeth. We’ve went from guaranteed EL group stage to likely only getting in at EL Q3 meaning we’d have to win 2 ties (4 games) to get to EL group stage.

From my understanding the best we can hope for is Chelsea to win CL or Villarreal to win EL and qualify for EL in their domestic league and even then we’d only get a playoff spot provided we win the cup.

Villareal unlikely. They'd need a result away to Real Madrid in the league and Man Utd in the Europa League final.

[mayo hibee]

Best hope is Chelsea winning the CL and missing out on top 4 in the Premier League. But it's a long shot being honest.

[Magpie]

yes that's pretty much what happened.

We (scotland) were always one spot outside the playoff round. However there was a spare place going as there would usually be a place available for the europa conference league winners in the europa league. As there will be no conference league winner this season (because the competition hasn't started yet), it was widely understood that this would free up an extra place in the playoff round that the scottish cup winner would benefit from.

However it appears uefa have now decided to allocate the extra place in a different way and the scottish cup winner will no longer be the beneficiary. So we now need the favour from chelsea or villarreal unfortunately it seems, to free up another place in the playoff round.

**** uefa.

[Gloucester Hibs]

**** uefa.

Yep. Can’t have Hibs or Saints stinking out their precious group stages.

[Speedy]

Best hope is Chelsea winning the CL and missing out on top 4 in the Premier League. But it's a long shot being honest.

Do they need to miss out on top 4? Or just win the CL?

[tamig]

No confirmation of this from UEFA? Just a poster on a forum claiming it to be true?

Its on the UEFA website.

[CapitalGreen]

I’m not sure UEFA have changed anything, I think people just applied the rebalancing incorrectly when taking the new tournament into account and there has been a clarification today. There has never been anything official from UEFA confirming the Scottish Cup winners would enter at the play off rounds.

[CapitalGreen]

Do they need to miss out on top 4? Or just win the CL?

Need to miss out on top 4.

So essentially we need Liverpool to leapfrog Chelsea in the Premier League and then Chelsea to win the Champions League.

[mayo hibee]

They need to both win the CL and miss out on top 4 as I understand it.

We're all Leicester City fans all of a sudden.

[Billy Whizz]

I’m not sure UEFA have changed anything, I think people just applied the rebalancing incorrectly when taking the new tournament into account and there has been a clarification today. There has never been anything official from UEFA confirming the Scottish Cup winners would enter at the play off rounds.

Sorry Hibs put it on HibsPass last 2 home games

[HoboHarry]

Apparently I'm way too stupid to follow this.

[Ryan91]

Do they need to miss out on top 4? Or just win the CL?

Both, if they finish 5th, it would be the Europa League they would play in, but if they win the Champs League, they are given a spot in the Champs League in order to defend their title.

[Billy Whizz]

Apparently I'm way too stupid to follow this.

No one is too stupid, a computer works it out

[CapitalGreen]

Sorry Hibs put it on HibsPass last 2 home games

Probably got their info from the same sources as we did.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes that's pretty much what happened.

We (Scotland) were always one spot outside the playoff round. However there was a spare place going as there would usually be a place available for the Europa Conference league winners in the Europa League. As there will be no conference league winner this season (because the competition hasn't started yet), it was widely understood that this would free up an extra place in the playoff round that the Scottish Cup winner would benefit from.

However it appears UEFA have now decided to allocate the extra place in a different way and the Scottish Cup winner will no longer be the beneficiary. So we now need the favour from Chelsea or Villarreal unfortunately it seems, to free up another place in the playoff round.

That's pish.

[Ryan91]

Sorry Hibs put it on HibsPass last 2 home games

They put it on because UEFA's documentation showed Scottish Cup winner would get EL PO (unless qualified for Champs League, in which case it would go to 3rd), that documentation has now been updated and no longer shows Scottish Cup winner as going in to the EL PO

[CapitalGreen]

They put it on because UEFA's documentation showed Scottish Cup winner would get EL PO (unless qualified for Champs League, in which case it would go to 3rd), that documentation has now been updated and no longer shows Scottish Cup winner as going in to the EL PO

Do you have a copy of the official documentation? Either the previous or new versions?

[Billy Whizz]

They put it on because UEFA's documentation showed Scottish Cup winner would get EL PO (unless qualified for Champs League, in which case it would go to 3rd), that documentation has now been updated and no longer shows Scottish Cup winner as going in to the EL PO

Surely we don’t mange out club on Wiki links

[SteveHFC]

Best hope is Chelsea winning the CL and missing out on top 4 in the Premier League. But it's a long shot being honest.

Could happen mate.

Liverpool have easy games left and Leicester will beat them tomorrow i think.

[CapitalGreen]

Could happen mate.

Liverpool have easy games left and Leicester will beat them tomorrow i think.

Just hoping Leicester don’t have a post-FA cup hangover, however even just a draw would be good for us.

[Hibbyradge]

Could happen mate.

Liverpool have easy games left and Leicester will beat them tomorrow i think.

Leicester are still out partying after the Cup win. I doubt they'll win at Stamford Bridge.

[JohnM1875]

Leicester are still out partying after the Cup win. I doubt they'll win at Stamford Bridge.

Leicester just need a draw to be fair as they're currently two points ahead of Chelsea. But you're probably right!

[Ryan91]

Do you have a copy of the official documentation? Either the previous or new versions?

This was what the Access List looked like according to all info available on 15th May - http://web.archive.org/web/20210515175359/https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

This is what the Access List currently looks like - https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

Basically, UEFA have decided to grant the winners of the Cypriot Cup access to the 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League rather than having them play in the 2nd qualifying round of the Conference League and in doing so, have dropped the Scottish Cup winners out of the Europa League playoff round in into the the 3rd qualifying round.

I have no idea as to why UEFA have done this.

[MunsterHibee]

So if we win the Cup on Saturday we go into Europa League Round 3 Qualifying. If we get eliminated from EL QR3. Do we drop into the Europa Conference League play off round???

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

This was what the Access List looked like according to all info available on 15th May - http://web.archive.org/web/20210515175359/https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

This is what the Access List currently looks like - https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

Basically, UEFA have decided to grant the winners of the Cypriot Cup access to the 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League rather than having them play in the 2nd qualifying round of the Conference League and in doing so, have dropped the Scottish Cup winners out of the Europa League playoff round in into the the 3rd qualifying round.

I have no idea as to why UEFA have done this.

Those aren’t official UEFA documents. The person who compiles that site (Bert) applied an incorrect rebalancing methodology which showed Scottish Cup Winners in the play off round. The correct rebalancing methodology to use has now been clarified to him hence the changes.

[mayo hibee]

So if we win the Cup on Saturday we go into Europa League Round 3 Qualifying. If we get eliminated from EL QR3. Do we drop into the Europa Conference League play off round???

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

Yes.

[MunsterHibee]

Yes.UEFA making it very difficult as usual. Winning the cup on Saturday with the extra bonus of guaranteed group stage European Football would have been the icing on the cake really. A big ask for us if we do indeed win the Cup on Saturday. Probably won't be seeded either.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

[mayo hibee]

This was what the Access List looked like according to all info available on 15th May - http://web.archive.org/web/20210515175359/https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

This is what the Access List currently looks like - https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

Basically, UEFA have decided to grant the winners of the Cypriot Cup access to the 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League rather than having them play in the 2nd qualifying round of the Conference League and in doing so, have dropped the Scottish Cup winners out of the Europa League playoff round in into the the 3rd qualifying round.

I have no idea as to why UEFA have done this.

The reason, supposedly, is to give as many cup winners access to the Europa League qualifiers as possible. This way gets an extra cup winner (Cyprus) into the Europa League qualifiers. Unfortunately the knock on effect is that Scotland loses its automatic group stage place.

[Ryan91]

So if we win the Cup on Saturday we go into Europa League Round 3 Qualifying. If we get eliminated from EL QR3. Do we drop into the Europa Conference League play off round???

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As things stand yes. We would be seeded for EL QR3, would likely face a team that has lost in CL QR2. Lose in EL QR3, we drop down to Conf PO and would be unseeded and likely face a team from one of Spain, England, Germany, Italy or France

However there is a caveat:

IF

Chelsea WIN the Champions League AND finish 5th in the EPL

OR

Villarreal WIN the Europa League AND finish 5th/6th in La Liga.

THEN

Scottish Cup Winners go into Europa League playoff round.

[SChibs]

Leicester are still out partying after the Cup win. I doubt they'll win at Stamford Bridge.

Leicester trained the morning after they won the cup and this is a massive game for them. They'll be well up for it and I think they'll win

[Juniper Greens]

All is not lost.
In some ways, we might want a really tough draw in Q3 of the europa league, as that would mean we were then seeded for the playoff round of the Conference League, as the draw is made before the previous round is complete, so our coefficient would be based on that of the better team.

[CMurdoch]

Well ain't that ****!
UEFA'd up the pooper in the last minute!

[nonshinyfinish]

Those aren’t official UEFA documents. The person who compiles that site (Bert) applied an incorrect rebalancing methodology which showed Scottish Cup Winners in the play off round. The correct rebalancing methodology to use has now been clarified to him hence the changes.

Is it not spectacularly odd that UEFA don't have this information posted somewhere official? At the start of the season, so everyone knows what they're competing for. Mind-blowing that so much has hinged on one random guy (although apparently normally very reliable) getting this wrong, including seemingly the club having the wrong information.

[Ryan91]

All is not lost.
In some ways, we might want a really tough draw in Q3 of the europa league, as that would mean we were then seeded for the playoff round of the Conference League, as the draw is made before the previous round is complete, so our coefficient would be based on that of the better team.

This whole thing is one massive headscratcher, but I would have thought that given we were seeded for Q3, it would be our coefficient that would take precedence regardless of that of our opponents?

[Ryan91]

Is it not spectacularly odd that UEFA don't have this information posted somewhere official? At the start of the season, so everyone knows what they're competing for. Mind-blowing that so much has hinged on one random guy (although apparently normally very reliable) getting this wrong, including seemingly the club having the wrong information.

There is an old access list kicking around from 2018 back when the Conference League was just Europa League 2, and 3 years away, but it makes no mention of cup winners

[Fergus52]

I’m not sure UEFA have changed anything, I think people just applied the rebalancing incorrectly when taking the new tournament into account and there has been a clarification today. There has never been anything official from UEFA confirming the Scottish Cup winners would enter at the play off rounds.

Uefa have shifted the goalposts with this new re balancing method though.

Nearly every year there is some form of 're-balancing' depending on who wins the champions League and Europa League, and the better entry positions have always just filtered down to the next highest ranked country.

[Juniper Greens]

This whole thing is one massive headscratcher, but I would have thought that given we were seeded for Q3, it would be our coefficient that would take precedence regardless of that of our opponents?

Those seedings are a bit false. It's just to keep the Champs League drop outs from having to play each other. Realistically, we would want someone like a PSV to then poach their coefficient for the conference playoff round

[Fergus52]

Those aren’t official UEFA documents. The person who compiles that site (Bert) applied an incorrect rebalancing methodology which showed Scottish Cup Winners in the play off round. The correct rebalancing methodology to use has now been clarified to him hence the changes.

Bert kassies applied the same methodology that uefa use every year to assign the missing qualification places that arise when the champions League and/or Europa League winner has already qualified for champions League.

It may technically be incorrect now but for me it's still uefa unfairly changing the process at the last minute. There is absolutely no reason I can see why they shouldn't just use the normal process they follow every year - which it looks like Bert kassie, the sfa and the club were all informed would also be followed for the missing conference league winner place.

[CapitalGreen]

Bert kassies applied the same methodology that uefa use every year to assign the missing qualification places that arise when the champions League and/or Europa League winner has already qualified for champions League.

It may technically be incorrect now but for me it's still uefa unfairly changing the process at the last minute. There is absolutely no reason I can see why they shouldn't just use the normal process they follow every year - which it looks like Bert kassie, the sfa and the club were all informed would also be followed for the missing conference league winner place.

Previous years are irrelevant though because the Conference League didn’t exist in previous years.

[Ryan91]

Those seedings are a bit false. It's just to keep the Champs League drop outs from having to play each other. Realistically, we would want someone like a PSV to then poach their coefficient for the conference playoff round

I've basically just spent the past few hours trying to figure all this stuff out, it's a bloody rabbit hole and every time I see something, I find something else 5 minutes later that seemingly contradicts the previous.

:dizzy:

[mim]

Nothing will be easy, but we (or Saints) are still allowed to win the Qualifying round tie. That would put us back on track for group stage football. :agree:

[Dropkick Murphy]

There is an old access list kicking around from 2018 back when the Conference League was just Europa League 2, and 3 years away, but it makes no mention of cup winners

https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0263-10c848fb43cc-49ac1262ab7c-1000/access_list_2021-22_final.pdf

UEFA has the access list linked on their website (but it is hard to find). I remember looking earlier in the year and struggled to understand how the Scottish cup winners would be in the Playoff round, even without Conference league winners for the first season.

[Fergus52]

Previous years are irrelevant though because the Conference League didn’t exist in previous years.

It's not irrelevant, because the same issue arises every year when the champions League winner has already qualified for the champions League, creating a gap in the access list.

There's no reason why they shouldn't follow the same process for the gap this year arising from there being no conference league winner.

[Smartie]

Nothing will be easy, but we (or Saints) are still allowed to win the Qualifying round tie. That would put us back on track for group stage football. :agree:

When would this tie be likely to be?

We've been caught in that whole trap of playing important European games very early on in our pre-season.

If it's sometime after we've started playing league games and Hibs have been on the ball re getting a squad together then it might not be a tie to be feared.

[CapitalGreen]

When would this tie be likely to be?

We've been caught in that whole trap of playing important European games very early on in our pre-season.

If it's sometime after we've started playing league games and Hibs have been on the ball re getting a squad together then it might not be a tie to be feared.

5/12 August

[Speedy]

This was what the Access List looked like according to all info available on 15th May - http://web.archive.org/web/20210515175359/https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

This is what the Access List currently looks like - https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2021.html

Basically, UEFA have decided to grant the winners of the Cypriot Cup access to the 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League rather than having them play in the 2nd qualifying round of the Conference League and in doing so, have dropped the Scottish Cup winners out of the Europa League playoff round in into the the 3rd qualifying round.

I have no idea as to why UEFA have done this.

Who has the extra playoff place? Or is there simply an extra tie in the 3rd round?

[mayo hibee]

Extra tie in the third round now that effectively two teams have been added to that round - the Scottish Cup winner and the Cypriot cup winner.

[Chorley Hibee]

I’m not sure UEFA have changed anything, I think people just applied the rebalancing incorrectly when taking the new tournament into account and there has been a clarification today. There has never been anything official from UEFA confirming the Scottish Cup winners would enter at the play off rounds.

I said a few weeks ago that, having read all the qualification details and various permutations involved, the Scottish Cup winners would enter at Q3 and not the PO round.

Various articles confirmed this too, but it was rubbished by most on here.

[mayo hibee]

Nothing will be easy, but we (or Saints) are still allowed to win the Qualifying round tie. That would put us back on track for group stage football. :agree:

Yes, but if the guarantee of group stage football is gone for the cup winner it impacts on our budgeting for the season ahead. We can no longer plan on the basis of the income being guaranteed, which it had seemed that we could if we won the cup.

[mim]

Yes, but if the guarantee of group stage football is gone for the cup winner it impacts on our budgeting for the season ahead. We can no longer plan on the basis of the income being guaranteed, which it had seemed that we could if we won the cup.

A very good point.

[Centre Hawf]

Yes, but if the guarantee of group stage football is gone for the cup winner it impacts on our budgeting for the season ahead. We can no longer plan on the basis of the income being guaranteed, which it had seemed that we could if we won the cup.

I agree. This is a huge kick in the stones if this is as recent information to the club as it is to us all. Can imagine we've been planning for the opportunities Saturday could have brought us.

[Sir David Gray]

I agree. This is a huge kick in the stones if this is as recent information to the club as it is to us all. Can imagine we've been planning for the opportunities Saturday could have brought us.

It must have come as a huge surprise to Hibs as Hibs TV were advertising a cup win as being a ticket to guaranteed European football until Christmas as recently as Saturday.

I'd imagine planning would be well underway with regards to budgets for next season etc.

This news will come as a massive blow.

[danhibees1875]

Well that's very disappointing...

At least there's a couple of permutations that can still allow it to happen - kicking off tonight with Leicester dragging themselves out of bed to hopefully avoid defeat at Chelsea.

[Speedy]

Those seedings are a bit false. It's just to keep the Champs League drop outs from having to play each other. Realistically, we would want someone like a PSV to then poach their coefficient for the conference playoff round

Aye, as much as it being hailed as an opportunity to give Cyprus a crack at the EL, the cynic in me says its more about keeping the big teams dropping out the champions league in it for longer.

[AliboyFC]

Well that's very disappointing...

At least there's a couple of permutations that can still allow it to happen - kicking off tonight with Leicester dragging themselves out of bed to hopefully avoid defeat at Chelsea.

Mon the leicester

[Billy Whizz]

It must have come as a huge surprise to Hibs as Hibs TV were advertising a cup win as being a ticket to guaranteed European football until Christmas as recently as Saturday.

I'd imagine planning would be well underway with regards to budgets for next season etc.

This news will come as a massive blow.

You’d have thought we’d have been looking at the UEFA site, rather than Berts/Wiki. Newspapers were also running with it last week too, the £3m final

[Ryan91]

You’d have thought we’d have been looking at the UEFA site, rather than Berts/Wiki. Newspapers were also running with it last week too, the £3m final

UEFA access list only came out yesterday on their website it would seem.

[Billy Whizz]

UEFA access list only came out yesterday on their website it would seem.

Ok Ryan ta

[Hibee Mac]

I'm well confused. So is this a case of the goalposts being moved unexpectedly, or is it just massive oversight from those in Scottish football?

[Peevemor]

I'm well confused. So is this a case of the goalposts being moved unexpectedly, or is it just massive oversight from those in Scottish football?

I don't think it's either. I get the impression people were taking for granted something which hadn't been finalised.

[bringbackbenny]

I'm well confused. So is this a case of the goalposts being moved unexpectedly, or is it just massive oversight from those in Scottish football?

Appears to be the former, UEFA moved from the methodology from previous years as the the ECL and EL now being treated closer together for the accumulation of ranking points.

But don't ask me to explain it 🤣

[Since452]

My head is fried as it is with Saturday looming. I'll think about Europe after

[Fergus52]

I said a few weeks ago that, having read all the qualification details and various permutations involved, the Scottish Cup winners would enter at Q3 and not the PO round.

Various articles confirmed this too, but it was rubbished by most on here.

The assumption that UEFA would follow the same procedure that they have done every year for the past decade or so when assigning 'spare' entry positions was a sound one.

Whenever an extra entry place has occured, for whatever reason, it has always just filtered down to the next highest ranked country. The club, SFA, media, bert kassie and everyone on here were right to think they would do the same next season imo.

There's no sensible reason I can see why Cyprus should get bumped up and not Scotland when they're several places below us.

[Fergus52]

The assumption that UEFA would follow the same procedure that they have done every year for the past decade or so when assigning 'spare' entry positions was a sound one.

Whenever an extra entry place has occured, for whatever reason, it has always just filtered down to the next highest ranked country. The club, SFA, media, bert kassie and everyone on here were right to think they would do the same next season imo.

There's no sensible reason I can see why Cyprus should get bumped up and not Scotland when they're several places below us.

Had a look through Bert Kassies site to see the full new changes to the qualifying process, and it looks like it is just to keep the champions league drop outs in Europe longer.

In previous seasons, when non-title winning champions league teams dropped into the Europa, they used to just get included in the pot with everyone else as normal and be seeded or not depending on their coefficient.

Next year, these sides are guaranteed to play a non-champions league drop out team, making it harder for the sides that have directly qualified for the Europa (and not dropped out the champions league) to qualify.

In the Europa league Q3 round (should we get there) we'll be playing either PSV, or the team that comes second in the Danish, Czech or Austrian leagues. All of which will be champions league drop outs.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html

[ahibby]

Had a look through Bert Kassies site to see the full new changes to the qualifying process, and it looks like it is just to keep the champions league drop outs in Europe longer.

In previous seasons, when non-title winning champions league teams dropped into the Europa, they used to just get included in the pot with everyone else as normal and be seeded or not depending on their coefficient.

Next year, these sides are guaranteed to play a non-champions league drop out team, making it harder for the sides that have directly qualified for the Europa (and not dropped out the champions league) to qualify.

In the Europa league Q3 round (should we get there) we'll be playing either PSV, or the team that comes second in the Danish, Czech or Austrian leagues. All of which will be champions league drop outs.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html

Bring them on. The Hibs 2021/22 a team that will be remembered as club legends.

[MacBean]

Had a look through Bert Kassies site to see the full new changes to the qualifying process, and it looks like it is just to keep the champions league drop outs in Europe longer.

In previous seasons, when non-title winning champions league teams dropped into the Europa, they used to just get included in the pot with everyone else as normal and be seeded or not depending on their coefficient.

Next year, these sides are guaranteed to play a non-champions league drop out team, making it harder for the sides that have directly qualified for the Europa (and not dropped out the champions league) to qualify.

In the Europa league Q3 round (should we get there) we'll be playing either PSV, or the team that comes second in the Danish, Czech or Austrian leagues. All of which will be champions league drop outs.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html

Just to elaborate on those teams we (or Saints) could get.
It will be 3 teams from - PSV, Galatasaray, either Brondby/Midjytlland (whoever finishes 2nd), either Sparta Prague/Jablonec (whoever finishes 2nd), one of Rapid Vienna/Sturm Graz/LASK (whoever finishes 2nd)

[Keith_M]

But we do still qualify for at least one home and one away game in Europe though?


:dunno:

[danhibees1875]

But we do still qualify for at least one home and one away game in Europe though?


:dunno:

At least 2 of each, if we win the cup.

Q3 for Europa League

Then a Playoff for one of the group stages.

[MacBean]

As things stand yes. We would be seeded for EL QR3, would likely face a team that has lost in CL QR2. Lose in EL QR3, we drop down to Conf PO and would be unseeded and likely face a team from one of Spain, England, Germany, Italy or France
.


There are also the other seeded teams from EConfL 2nd Qualifying Round that would be in there too, those teams mentioned above join the competition at that stage (Currently Villarreal, West Ham, Union Berlin, Roma, Lens). Still a sizeable task looking at some of the names in the 2nd round here - 2021–22 UEFA Europa Conference League - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_UEFA_Europa_Conference_League)

[Keith_M]

At least 2 of each, if we win the cup.

Q3 for Europa League

Then a Playoff for one of the group stages.


Sounds good to me

:aok:

[CMurdoch]

Ah well 4 European games next season.
Will be like being Celtic.
Papped out of one tournament after our 1st tie then drop down into the tournament below only to be papped out again after the 1st tie.
Fingers crossed we get the 2nd placed Danish team which would give us a chance and us supporters can at least go to the games.

[007]

EEN article says Chelsea winning the Champions League or Villarreal winning the Europa League will help us or St Johnstone.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-or-st-johnstone-may-no-longer-have-guaranteed-group-stage-football-as-uefa-shift-goalposts-3240604

[CMurdoch]

EEN article says Chelsea winning the Champions League or Villarreal winning the Europa League will help us or St Johnstone.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-or-st-johnstone-may-no-longer-have-guaranteed-group-stage-football-as-uefa-shift-goalposts-3240604

All covered near the start of this thread

[007]

All covered near the start of this thread

OK, I didn't go right back to the start.

[Fergus52]

Ah well 4 European games next season.
Will be like being Celtic.
Papped out of one tournament after our 1st tie then drop down into the tournament below only to be papped out again after the 1st tie.
Fingers crossed we get the 2nd placed Danish team which would give us a chance and us supporters can at least go to the games.

Sturm Graz or Jabonlec could also potentially be do-able, although it looks like Sparta prague will be coming 2nd in the czech league which would be more difficult.

If we were to get lucky in the Q3 round draw and go through to the play off there would be some teams that are easier to face on paper than the potential Q3 opponents.

We would likely play one of the following in the play-off: AZ alkmar, Zorya Luhansk, Randers, third placed austrian team, Turkish cup winner spot.

Apart from the latter 2, I think we would have a half decent chance against those teams. Surprising the way it has worked out that the potential Q3 opponents are more difficult than the potential play off opponents.

(taken from here: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedel2021.html)

[badabing67]

Bring them on. The Hibs 2021/22 a team that will be remembered as club legends.

Let it be known to Boyler and Jacko

[Pagan Hibernia]

Absolute punch in the face this is. Sigh.

[GRA]

Annoying this scenario has arisen so late in the day.... still the various permutations need to be played out so just win the cup, enjoy the moment and let's see where we are at the end of May.

[HendoDelivered]

It was almost too good to be true!

[Greenbeard]

The goalposts changing for the Cup winners four days out from the final is very very annoying.
If there was a possibility of Scotland's ranking changing this late in the season why was there all the previous chat, presumably from official sources, of "guaranteed" group football for the Cup winners? If there was always the possibility of a change in our ranking, nothing should have been declared "guaranteed". The garden path we have been led up.

[danhibees1875]

The goalposts changing for the Cup winners four days out from the final is very very annoying.
If there was a possibility of Scotland's ranking changing this late in the season why was there all the previous chat, presumably from official sources, of "guaranteed" group football for the Cup winners? If there was always the possibility of a change in our ranking, nothing should have been declared "guaranteed". The garden path we have been led up.

I don't think our ranking has changed.

Just the final decision on how to allocate the places to and where to put them in the competition wasn't as expected.

[CapitalGreen]

I don't think our ranking has changed.

Just the final decision on how to allocate the places to and where to put them in the competition wasn't as expected.

This is exactly it. People mistakenly applied the methodology which is used to rebalance the teams if their is a gap in the Champions League access list to rebalance the Europa League access list. However, a key difference between the 2 competitions which was overlooked is that the Europa League always gives priority to cup winners where possible. So instead of bumping all the countries up based on ranking, UEFA are filling the gap in the Europa League access list by promoting the Cypriot cup winners up from the Conference League instead.

[Ryan91]

With Chelsea winning tonight, we now require Liverpool to win their next two games (away to Burnley tomorrow and home to Palace on Sunday) and Leicester to win their final game vs Spurs, whilst Chelsea fail to beat Villa AND then have them win the Champs League to get bumped up a spot.

[MacBean]

With Chelsea winning tonight, we now require Liverpool to win their next two games (away to Burnley tomorrow and home to Palace on Sunday) and Leicester to win their final game vs Spurs, whilst Chelsea fail to beat Villa AND then have them win the Champs League to get bumped up a spot.

or Villarreal win v real, Betis fail to win and then Villarreal beat Man Utd to win europa league

[Hibbyradge]

With Chelsea winning tonight, we now require Liverpool to win their next two games (away to Burnley tomorrow and home to Palace on Sunday) and Leicester to win their final game vs Spurs, whilst Chelsea fail to beat Villa AND then have them win the Champs League to get bumped up a spot.

Don't we have an option involving the Europa Cup final?

MacBean has explained above. I think we can just settle for the fact that we're only getting 4 games in Europe with an outside chance of qualification for the group stages of one.

[hibbysam]

So if Chelsea finish top 4, and win the champions league, who gets their champions league spot? And then who gets that teams Europa league spot? And why wouldn’t that be Scotland?

Looks like Chelsea/city win it and finish top 4 then Turkey move up a spot, but then who takes Turkey’s play off spot? Then who takes the spot vacated by that team? All too confusing for me.

[danhibees1875]

Don't we have an option involving the Europa Cup final?

MacBean has explained above. I think we can just settle for the fact that we're only getting 4 games in Europe with an outside chance of qualification for the group stages of one.

Or 2 with an outside chance of more, and St Johnstone only get 4 with an outside chance. :wink:

[CapitalGreen]

So if Chelsea finish top 4, and win the champions league, who gets their champions league spot? And then who gets that teams Europa league spot? And why wouldn’t that be Scotland?

Looks like Chelsea/city win it and finish top 4 then Turkey move up a spot, but then who takes Turkey’s play off spot? Then who takes the spot vacated by that team? All too confusing for me.

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).

[Newry Hibs]

Hang on. This is all very confusing.
Do we still want Hibs to win the cup?

[Sir David Gray]

Hang on. This is all very confusing.
Do we still want Hibs to win the cup?

I'm beginning to have my doubts about that with all the permutations flying around. :tee hee:

[Hibbyradge]

Or 2 with an outside chance of more, and St Johnstone only get 4 with an outside chance. :wink:

Indeed.

I had written "a maximum of 4", but I must have deleted it when I changed my wording.

[Hibbyradge]

Hang on. This is all very confusing.
Do we still want Hibs to win the cup?

Which one?

[Hibbyradge]

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).

Reported

[Sir David Gray]

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).

I'll be honest, you lost me at "CL-TH".

[McSwanky]

or Villarreal win v real, Betis fail to win and then Villarreal beat Man Utd to win europa leagueDon't Villareal just need to better Betis's result? A draw for Villareal and a loss for Betis would surely do it. They could also pass Real Sociedad as well?

[gbhibby]

My head hurts.

[bingo70]

Hang on. This is all very confusing.
Do we still want Hibs to win the cup?

😂

Hardly seems worth it now. Might no even bother going to the final.

[Greenbeard]

Hang on. This is all very confusing.
Do we still want Hibs to win the cup?
I'm so confused I'm not even sure we're still in the cup final are we?
If we are, as long as Lennon doesn't pick Kamberi we should win.

[Radge70]

The goalposts changing for the Cup winners four days out from the final is very very annoying.
If there was a possibility of Scotland's ranking changing this late in the season why was there all the previous chat, presumably from official sources, of "guaranteed" group football for the Cup winners? If there was always the possibility of a change in our ranking, nothing should have been declared "guaranteed". The garden path we have been led up.
They were saying that whoever came 3rd in the league was "guarenteed" it to begin with!

[bingo70]

I'm so confused I'm not even sure we're still in the cup final are we?
If we are, as long as Lennon doesn't pick Kamberi we should win.

As long as we keep Latapy off the bevy this week we should be fine 😉

[Speedy]

With Chelsea winning tonight, we now require Liverpool to win their next two games (away to Burnley tomorrow and home to Palace on Sunday) and Leicester to win their final game vs Spurs, whilst Chelsea fail to beat Villa AND then have them win the Champs League to get bumped up a spot.

SJM will take care of Chelsea for us. Liverpool should win both. Leicester inviting Conrad back for the team talk so that's in the bag.

Just need to win the cup now!

[Hibbyradge]

SJM will take care of Chelsea for us. Liverpool should win both. Leicester inviting Conrad back for the team talk so that's in the bag.

Just need to win the cup now!

You forgot the bit about Chelsea winning the CL.

[1875godsgift]

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).

:brickwall

[MacBean]

Don't Villareal just need to better Betis's result? A draw for Villareal and a loss for Betis would surely do it. They could also pass Real Sociedad as well?
Yeah that’s right, my apologies

[Hibee Mac]

So am I reading above that the Cypriot cup winners will be given the spot with guaranteed Europa conference league group stages ahead of the Scottish cup winners?

[Michael]

So am I reading above that the Cypriot cup winners will be given the spot with guaranteed Europa conference league group stages ahead of the Scottish cup winners?

No they get QR3 of Europa, instead of Conference qualifying round.

We also have QR3 of Europa for Scottish cup winners.

[seanshow]

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).

... I think you've inadvertently solved the Indian strain of covid here :confused:

[southern hibby]

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).


I never understood O grade Chemistry never mind A level but this mastermind version is just to much to apprehend. However I’m sure it’ll get sorted in someone’s PITCHer somewhere.

GGTTH

[One Day]

... I think you've inadvertently solved the Indian strain of covid here :confused:

Made me laugh :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

Manchester City wins CL, or Chelsea wins CL and qualifies for CL by domestic league:
CL-TH not used: Tur-CH to CL-GS, Den-CH to CL-PO, Cze-CH to CL-Q3, Gre-CH en Srb-CH to CL-Q2.
only 16xCL-Q1 losers in ECL-Q2ch, one of them gets a bye to ECL-Q3ch (determined by draw).

Was about to say the same, you saved me the bother :aok:

[Crunchie]

... I think you've inadvertently solved the Indian strain of covid here :confused:
:not worth

[calumhibee1]

At least 2 of each, if we win the cup.

Q3 for Europa League

Then a Playoff for one of the group stages.

If we win Q3 for EL and lose the EL playoff do we still drop down to ECL in some form?

[Bostonhibby]

... I think you've inadvertently solved the Indian strain of covid here :confused:[emoji23]

If you chuck in some £ signs and a few vomitories it looks like a Mrs doctor Budge formula for saving Scottish football for just the one season.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[danhibees1875]

If we win Q3 for EL and lose the EL playoff do we still drop down to ECL in some form?

We'd be in the ECL group stage if that happened AFAIK.

Winning EL Q3 would put us into the same position as we thought we were going into (i.e. guaranteed some sort of group stage football).

[nonshinyfinish]

If we win Q3 for EL and lose the EL playoff do we still drop down to ECL in some form?

Yes. It makes no difference how you reach the EL play-off round: winner goes into EL groups, loser goes into ECL groups.

[Diclonius]

So am I reading above that the Cypriot cup winners will be given the spot with guaranteed Europa conference league group stages ahead of the Scottish cup winners?

It'll be like the 14th placed English team or something.

[Dalianwanda]

I see BBC posted yesterday and still has Scottish Cup Winners going into the play off place..

[CapitalGreen]

If we win Q3 for EL and lose the EL playoff do we still drop down to ECL in some form?

Yes, if we win the EL Q3 we would then be in the position we thought we’d be entering before so would be guaranteed group stage football regardless of our result in the play off.

[Speedy]

So am I reading above that the Cypriot cup winners will be given the spot with guaranteed Europa conference league group stages ahead of the Scottish cup winners?

Instead of promoting someone from Q3 to PO, they've promoted Cyprus from Q2 to Q3 to create an additional tie in Q3.

[calumhibee1]

We'd be in the ECL group stage if that happened AFAIK.

Winning EL Q3 would put us into the same position as we thought we were going into (i.e. guaranteed some sort of group stage football).

Legend.

In that case; whilst it’s a bit **** it’s still attainable.

[HiBremian]

I see BBC posted yesterday and still has Scottish Cup Winners going into the play off place..

They’re just reporting what they saw on the side of a shiny red bus.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

... I think you've inadvertently solved the Indian strain of covid here :confused:

Or caused it.

[bringbackbenny]

Yes, if we win the EL Q3 we would then be in the position we thought we’d be entering before so would be guaranteed group stage football regardless of our result in the play off.

I'm not so sure that is the case?

http://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedecl2021.html has the losers from Europa League Q3 dropping into the Conference play offs? :confused: i.e. final round before the Group.

So need to either win 2 Europa League knock out ties or, if lose in Europa League Q3, then win the final Conference play off


struggling to follow all this regardless all a moot point unless the cup is won :greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

I'm not so sure that is the case?

http://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedecl2021.html has the losers from Europa League Q3 dropping into the Conference play offs? :confused: i.e. final round before the Group.

So need to either win 2 Europa League knock out ties or, if lose in Europa League Q3, then win the final Conference play off


struggling to follow all this regardless all a moot point unless the cup is won :greengrin

That's if you lose in EL Q3. The quoted post is talking about what happens if you win EL Q3 – you go on to the EL play-off, and from there everything is as previously expected: winner goes to EL groups, loser goes to ECL groups.

[Greenbeard]

This thread now reads like a script for an episode of LOD.

[bringbackbenny]

That's if you lose in EL Q3. The quoted post is talking about what happens if you win EL Q3 – you go on to the EL play-off, and from there everything is as previously expected: winner goes to EL groups, loser goes to ECL groups.

thanks for that, I follow !

[nonshinyfinish]

This thread now reads like a script for an episode of LOD.

I've set up a massive pinboard with photos and bits of string in the style of The Wire.

[danhibees1875]

Whoever wins the cup will play 2 rounds in Europe:

Win 2 rounds - Europa group
Win 1 round (either) - conference group
Win 0 - home.

[nonshinyfinish]

Whoever wins the cup will play 2 rounds in Europe:

Win 2 rounds - Europa group
Win 1 round (either) - conference group
Win 0 - home.

That's an excellent simplification, nice one.

[Hibbyradge]

That's an excellent simplification, nice one.

You can take the pinboard down now.

[nonshinyfinish]

You can take the pinboard down now.

Not until Stringer Bell's in bracelets!

[H18 SFR]

Decided we are driving to wherever the game is COVID permitting, hopefully this can happen!

[Keyser Sauzee]

Is anyone able to work out what teams we might be facing in the earlier round, are we likely to get a favourable draw which would take us to the round we thought we would enter originally?

[JeMeSouviens]

Is anyone able to work out what teams we might be facing in the earlier round, are we likely to get a favourable draw which would take us to the round we thought we would enter originally?

In a word, no.

It'll be a losing team from the Non-Champions path of the CL qualifier. One of the 2nd placed teams in the leagues of: Netherlands, Turkey, Austria, Denmark, Scotland or Czechia. Or the Cypriot or Czech cup winners but I imagine, like us, they'd be unseeded?

Celtc is probably our best bet!

[CapitalGreen]

In a word, no.

It'll be a losing team from the Non-Champions path of the CL qualifier. One of the 2nd placed teams in the leagues of: Netherlands, Turkey, Austria, Denmark, Scotland or Czechia. Or the Cypriot or Czech cup winners but I imagine, like us, they'd be unseeded?

Celtc is probably our best bet!

I believe we will be seeded in the EL Q3 round.