Third place, what got us here, and how to kick on

[matty_f]

This has been, so far, a really good season, and now that third place is well and truly in the bag we can reflect on the part that everyone has played in getting us to this point.

We are very much here by design, rather than by accident/luck. From Ron Gordon's AGM just before lockdown 1 happened, we could see the ambitious plans that the club have/had. Lockdown and COVID clearly disrupted those plans, and forced the club into some very tough and, in some cases, very unpopular decisions. We were criticised for spending on players like Nisbet and Murphy, but the decision to invest in the team while at the same time cutting the overall spend has proven to be the right one.

The club were backed fantastically by the support - 11k season ticket sales, HSL donations, sponsorship etc all helped offset some of the loss to COVID, and the club have worked hard to secure commercial partnerships to bring in more revenue to support the ambitions.

We are in a very good place at the moment, almost irrespective of what happens on the 22nd (though not quite, that is crucially important).

There are very clear and very deliberate strategies at play at Hibs, from Ross going with quality over quantity in the squad size, to the signing policy that is emerging (promising young Scottish talent), to holding on to our best talent until either the price or the timing is right for the club. The partnerships with other clubs extend our reach and our knowledge/resources, and commercial decisions like "Thank you NHS" and "The greenest club in Scotland" have given the club a great profile which will attract greater sponsorship/marketing opportunities which ultimately benefit the first team.

Jack Ross has steadily and consistently improved the team, on almost any measure you care to use, we are amongst the top 3 clubs in the country. David Martindale referenced a "pounds per point" statistic that highlighted Livi as having spent the least per point this season, Hibernian were next. That is great value.

We'll know soon enough if the club have reached all of the goals set this season, but third place was a target that has been achieved with a game to spare while competing to the latter stages of all cup competitions. This is fantastic.

We are now looking into a moment where there is an opportunity to kick on that we've not seen before. The potential Euro income and opportunities that affords us, along with the infrastructure that has been built over the last number of years. means we are ideally placed to take advantage of our current successes.

If ever there was a time to continue to do our part, it's now. I would urge everyone who is able to, to buy a season ticket and/or donate to HSL, or back the club in whatever way you can. I am sure if we win the cup, that will act as a catalyst for that anyway, but personally, I think that should that game not go our way, we need to see past the disappointment and make sure we're all (club and support) doing everything we can to be in a position to win it again next season and the season after that etc.

I have never been as excited about the future of Hibernian as I am right now.

[Peevemor]

Well said. I agree with all of that.

I don't think Ron Gordon is naive enough to think that we'll automatically replicate this season's relative success every year, but hopefully he's seen enough to continue with his plans and invest with confidence.

[Pretty Boy]

When it comes to where we are now I can't help but compare us to Hearts.

We both hit rock bottom at roughly the same time. For Hearts the cause was clear. For us it was a bit less so. By accident or poor design we had been a bit rudderless for years and, accepting there were a few high points, the general direction was downwards. There had already been an acknowledgement of that prior to relegation but that result had the potential to, any maybe even did, set us back years.

Hearts had a bit longer to prepare for the Championship than us and won the sprint by a distance. Both clubs had set out to restructure and reorganise and that's where the differences really start. We put a clear footballing structure in place and put the right people in the right places. More than that we view player development holistically as well. From ensuring young players are well educated and rounded to supporting players mentally as they prepare for games and deal with difficulties. I said it in a post a few weeks ago, if players want to do so Hibs are a club where you can come and improve, literally everything is there.

Our structure is evident. We arguably broke it slightly for Lennon for a clear reason. However even when the head coach doesn't work out, as was the case with Heckingbottom, the overall structure means we aren't saddled with bad players unsuited to the overall vision for the club. Doidge and Newell are obvious examples of that.

The foundations put in place at Hibs were solid. We got the right people in the right positions. Restructuring the debt and having infrastructure in place made us an attractive prospect for an owner and chariman who appears slightly less conservative than his predecessors. Since our return to the top flight we have consistently outperformed Hearts. We have consistently been more successful in the transfer market and looking at the respective positions of both clubs I don't think any of us would swap places. They won the sprint but we trained for the marathon. Of course watching them win the Championship was hard, of course there have been harder times but I said above a few years ago the consistent trend was downwards. For some time now the trend has been upwards, it's an exciting time to be a Hibs fan and we have an opportunity to really kick on now.

[jeffers]

Well said. I agree with all of that.

I don't think Ron Gordon is naive enough to think that we'll automatically replicate this season's relative success every year, but hopefully he's seen enough to continue with his plans and invest with confidence.

I don’t intend this as a criticism, but my impression is the plans he has are based on the investment of others so I do not see why they should not continue.

[Peevemor]

I don’t intend this as a criticism, but my impression is the plans he has are based on the investment of others so I do not see why they should not continue.Possibly, but there's no doubt that he loosened the purse strings last summer when it would have been understandable had he been more cautious.

[jeffers]

Possibly, but there's no doubt that he loosened the purse strings last summer when it would have been understandable had he been more cautious.

Absolutely. While I still have some reservations over him, so far he’s done everything he’s said he would. It always felt under Petrie that there was always something else to invest in instead of the playing side. I don’t have that feeling under RG.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Kick-back will educate you to the extent that the reason that we finished third in the league, is because Hearts are not.

[ancient hibee]

I don’t intend this as a criticism, but my impression is the plans he has are based on the investment of others so I do not see why they should not continue.


I wasn’t aware of that. Who else is he expecting to invest in the club?

[Peevemor]

I wasn’t aware of that. Who else is he expecting to invest in the club?Us I think.

[GloryGlory]

This has been, so far, a really good season, and now that third place is well and truly in the bag we can reflect on the part that everyone has played in getting us to this point.

We are very much here by design, rather than by accident/luck. From Ron Gordon's AGM just before lockdown 1 happened, we could see the ambitious plans that the club have/had. Lockdown and COVID clearly disrupted those plans, and forced the club into some very tough and, in some cases, very unpopular decisions. We were criticised for spending on players like Nisbet and Murphy, but the decision to invest in the team while at the same time cutting the overall spend has proven to be the right one.

The club were backed fantastically by the support - 11k season ticket sales, HSL donations, sponsorship etc all helped offset some of the loss to COVID, and the club have worked hard to secure commercial partnerships to bring in more revenue to support the ambitions.

We are in a very good place at the moment, almost irrespective of what happens on the 22nd (though not quite, that is crucially important).

There are very clear and very deliberate strategies at play at Hibs, from Ross going with quality over quantity in the squad size, to the signing policy that is emerging (promising young Scottish talent), to holding on to our best talent until either the price or the timing is right for the club. The partnerships with other clubs extend our reach and our knowledge/resources, and commercial decisions like "Thank you NHS" and "The greenest club in Scotland" have given the club a great profile which will attract greater sponsorship/marketing opportunities which ultimately benefit the first team.

Jack Ross has steadily and consistently improved the team, on almost any measure you care to use, we are amongst the top 3 clubs in the country. David Martindale referenced a "pounds per point" statistic that highlighted Livi as having spent the least per point this season, Hibernian were next. That is great value.

We'll know soon enough if the club have reached all of the goals set this season, but third place was a target that has been achieved with a game to spare while competing to the latter stages of all cup competitions. This is fantastic.

We are now looking into a moment where there is an opportunity to kick on that we've not seen before. The potential Euro income and opportunities that affords us, along with the infrastructure that has been built over the last number of years. means we are ideally placed to take advantage of our current successes.

If ever there was a time to continue to do our part, it's now. I would urge everyone who is able to, to buy a season ticket and/or donate to HSL, or back the club in whatever way you can. I am sure if we win the cup, that will act as a catalyst for that anyway, but personally, I think that should that game not go our way, we need to see past the disappointment and make sure we're all (club and support) doing everything we can to be in a position to win it again next season and the season after that etc.

I have never been as excited about the future of Hibernian as I am right now.

We could kick on by improving our home form, which has been dire, and by maintaining our away form. We really should have wrapped up 3rd a few weeks ago.

[jacomo]

I’m all in and will be renewing my season ticket very soon.

The club is in good hands.

Good chance we will need to replace one or two key members of the squad this summer, but if we can keep most of this team together then I genuinely think there is room for improvement. A little more composure in midfield and we would be dominating games.

[PatHead]

I wasn’t aware of that. Who else is he expecting to invest in the club?

Remember the pony up comment.

[WhileTheChief..]

I wasn’t aware of that. Who else is he expecting to invest in the club?

No one. That's never been mentioned anywhere.

The 'pony up' comment I took as meaning that as long as fans kept buying tickets we'd be fine.

RG has never once asked the fans for anything over and above supporting the club. I don't think I've even heard him ask people to pay into HSL.

He's doing a grand job. Looking forward to seeing what he does over the next year or two.

[jeffers]

No one. That's never been mentioned anywhere.

The 'pony up' comment I took as meaning that as long as fans kept buying tickets we'd be fine.

RG has never once asked the fans for anything over and above supporting the club. I don't think I've even heard him ask people to pay into HSL.

He's doing a grand job. Looking forward to seeing what he does over the next year or two.

I disagree. I thought (certainly to me anyway) it was clear from last year’s AGM that his plans for the club were to be funded by the fans. For example, the NHS logo on the front of this season’s top was paid for by some of our wealthier fans.

[Tommy75]

Remember the pony up comment.

Do you have a link?

[WhileTheChief..]

I disagree. I thought (certainly to me anyway) it was clear from last year’s AGM that his plans for the club were to be funded by the fans. For example, the NHS logo on the front of this season’s top was paid for by some of our wealthier fans.

I’ve never been to an agm so can’t comment on that but I’d be surprised if he asked fans for more cash. It was definitely not reported and has never been discussed on here.

Not sure how it’s clear to you that he wants us to put in more?

Wealthier fans approached Hibs and offered some cash to compensate for not having a shirt sponsor. That’s not RG asking fans to pony up.

[jeffers]

I’ve never been to an agm so can’t comment on that but I’d be surprised if he asked fans for more cash. It was definitely not reported and has never been discussed on here.

Not sure how it’s clear to you that he wants us to put in more?

Wealthier fans approached Hibs and offered some cash to compensate for not having a shirt sponsor. That’s not RG asking fans to pony up.

I can assure you at the AGM I refer to there were slides detailing plans to get fans to put in extra money. It was called something like the twenty club. There are enough posters on here who were at that AGM, I’m sure some of them can back up what I am saying.

As for the shirt sponsor whether the idea was initially suggested by some fans or not I don’t know, but I do know of one individual who was approached by Hibs to contribute to it.

[ancient hibee]

No one. That's never been mentioned anywhere.

The 'pony up' comment I took as meaning that as long as fans kept buying tickets we'd be fine.

RG has never once asked the fans for anything over and above supporting the club. I don't think I've even heard him ask people to pay into HSL.

He's doing a grand job. Looking forward to seeing what he does over the next year or two.
I agree. He wants fans to spend money as customers certainly not as investors.

[cameronw-hfc]

I've always taken Rons comments more towards him wanting Hibs to be sustainable on their own, and him not NEEDING to invest, eventually. As in, he would like Hibs to be generating enough money as a club to be able to function without investments to help out being needed as much, which imo is a strong foundation to build a club upon, if done correctly, but I can barely count to 50 so don't quote me on finance 😂

[inglisavhibs]

No one. That's never been mentioned anywhere.

The 'pony up' comment I took as meaning that as long as fans kept buying tickets we'd be fine.

RG has never once asked the fans for anything over and above supporting the club. I don't think I've even heard him ask people to pay into HSL.

He's doing a grand job. Looking forward to seeing what he does over the next year or two.
He certainly is, and on the playing side the introduction of some young hungry players has transformed our team (Doig, Porteous and Nesbit have all helped give the team legs and ability.

[Peevemor]

It was my post that brought up the question of investment.

Last summer the idea of going the whole season behind closed doors would have been treated as an unlikely but possible worst case scenario.

Although the size of the first team squad was reduced and other cost saving measures were implemented, the chances are the club will have lost money this year and will have tapped into the loan facilities Ron put in place (standing securities) when he first arrived.

This is effectively investment and, without going wild, showed a willingness to speculate that we're not used to with Hibs.

I've always taken the "ponying up" talk as meaning supporters spending more money as opposed to investment.

If Hibs win the cup we're looking at a decent windfall from European group games. Even if we lose the final that remains a possibility.

I get the impression that Ron will shove more money into next season's player budget than Rod Petrie would have permitted, and the point I was making in my post was that what JR is doing with the team should hopefully make this decision easier for Ron.

[Brightside]

No one. That's never been mentioned anywhere.

The 'pony up' comment I took as meaning that as long as fans kept buying tickets we'd be fine.

RG has never once asked the fans for anything over and above supporting the club. I don't think I've even heard him ask people to pay into HSL.

He's doing a grand job. Looking forward to seeing what he does over the next year or two.

Correct. And he will continue to look for any other investment he can get.

[Brightside]

I think Graham Mathie needs a little bit more plaudits for the work he’s done. It’s his philosophy we are working with and it’s what’s brought the areas of success we now have. Aberdeen going the old experienced route whilst we go youth/develop/sale route which will hopefully continue to put us in the best position long term. Whilst we need a CEO for the long term club stuff Graham is doing a great job on the playing side.

[Magpie]

I think Graham Mathie needs a little bit more plaudits for the work he’s done. It’s his philosophy we are working with and it’s what’s brought the areas of success we now have. Aberdeen going the old experienced route whilst we go youth/develop/sale route which will hopefully continue to put us in the best position long term. Whilst we need a CEO for the long term club stuff Graham is doing a great job on the playing side.

Yep. Graeme has been doing brilliantly behind the scenes. Met him a couple of times, he’s passionate and knowledgeable.

[GreyJammies]

I think Graham Mathie needs a little bit more plaudits for the work he’s done. It’s his philosophy we are working with and it’s what’s brought the areas of success we now have. Aberdeen going the old experienced route whilst we go youth/develop/sale route which will hopefully continue to put us in the best position long term. Whilst we need a CEO for the long term club stuff Graham is doing a great job on the playing side.

I think we've seen the last of Aberdeen as pretenders now. Expect them to slip back in to the pack and struggle for top 6 as they have done for most of this century.

They're kinda like Corey Haim. Big in the 80's. Tried to make a comeback a coupla times, but nobody ever took them seriously. They'll probably end up being run in to the grave by a guy who looks like Charlie Sheen.

A joke club.

[Onion]

We’ve had a great season that could turn out amazing. Repeating that or sustaining success is twice as hard. Money guarantees nothing - just look at Hearts ! IMO Hibs successful periods have all revolved around one thing, a good manager. If the Board appoints a quality manager, the rest falls into place. Recruitment, player performance, ambition, confidence and success. If a manager proves himself, Hibs invariably back him with money. This has all happened with Jack Ross.

Not sure what Kicking On means to a club of Hibs size once it has reached its natural limit. 3rd place and a cup win is about as far as we can reasonably go without serious new investment. In the short term, hanging onto Jack Ross is key. Everything else flows from that.

[Since452]

We need to win cups on a more regular basis. It's obviously incredibly difficult with Celtic and Rangers dominating but we should be looking to do better than a trophy every decade or so. If we win next week it will be the first time we've every won two trophies in 5 years in living memory. If we do that more often that would be success for me. Regulars in Europe should be the aim too. That might be lofty ambitions but we need to all push for that. Hibs have a massive opportunity now to shape their own history and be clear as best of the rest. With what is on offer with Europe it could be a game changer for us especially with Ron reshaping the commercial side of the club. Pivotal point in our history potentially.

[el hibs]

This has been, so far, a really good season, and now that third place is well and truly in the bag we can reflect on the part that everyone has played in getting us to this point.

We are very much here by design, rather than by accident/luck. From Ron Gordon's AGM just before lockdown 1 happened, we could see the ambitious plans that the club have/had. Lockdown and COVID clearly disrupted those plans, and forced the club into some very tough and, in some cases, very unpopular decisions. We were criticised for spending on players like Nisbet and Murphy, but the decision to invest in the team while at the same time cutting the overall spend has proven to be the right one.

The club were backed fantastically by the support - 11k season ticket sales, HSL donations, sponsorship etc all helped offset some of the loss to COVID, and the club have worked hard to secure commercial partnerships to bring in more revenue to support the ambitions.

We are in a very good place at the moment, almost irrespective of what happens on the 22nd (though not quite, that is crucially important).

There are very clear and very deliberate strategies at play at Hibs, from Ross going with quality over quantity in the squad size, to the signing policy that is emerging (promising young Scottish talent), to holding on to our best talent until either the price or the timing is right for the club. The partnerships with other clubs extend our reach and our knowledge/resources, and commercial decisions like "Thank you NHS" and "The greenest club in Scotland" have given the club a great profile which will attract greater sponsorship/marketing opportunities which ultimately benefit the first team.

Jack Ross has steadily and consistently improved the team, on almost any measure you care to use, we are amongst the top 3 clubs in the country. David Martindale referenced a "pounds per point" statistic that highlighted Livi as having spent the least per point this season, Hibernian were next. That is great value.

We'll know soon enough if the club have reached all of the goals set this season, but third place was a target that has been achieved with a game to spare while competing to the latter stages of all cup competitions. This is fantastic.

We are now looking into a moment where there is an opportunity to kick on that we've not seen before. The potential Euro income and opportunities that affords us, along with the infrastructure that has been built over the last number of years. means we are ideally placed to take advantage of our current successes.

If ever there was a time to continue to do our part, it's now. I would urge everyone who is able to, to buy a season ticket and/or donate to HSL, or back the club in whatever way you can. I am sure if we win the cup, that will act as a catalyst for that anyway, but personally, I think that should that game not go our way, we need to see past the disappointment and make sure we're all (club and support) doing everything we can to be in a position to win it again next season and the season after that etc.

I have never been as excited about the future of Hibernian as I am right now.

This is an excellent summary. Things are well set for this to become an amazing season.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think we've seen the last of Aberdeen as pretenders now. Expect them to slip back in to the pack and struggle for top 6 as they have done for most of this century.

They're kinda like Corey Haim. Big in the 80's. Tried to make a comeback a coupla times, but nobody ever took them seriously. They'll probably end up being run in to the grave by a guy who looks like Charlie Sheen.

A joke club.

They are certainly not a joke club, if so i wish the joke had been us the last 40 years. :confused:

[Since452]

They are certainly not a joke club, if so i wish the joke had been us the last 40 years. :confused:

The 1980's are a very long time ago now. They've won less than Hibs and Hearts since

[blackpoolhibs]

The 1980's are a very long time ago now. They've won less than Hibs and Hearts since

Aye but they have been in europe virtually non stop through high league positions since then, we've been relegated 3 times, more bottom 6 finishes than i care to remember too, if thats not a joke i dont know what is.

[Hibs1969]

I think we've seen the last of Aberdeen as pretenders now. Expect them to slip back in to the pack and struggle for top 6 as they have done for most of this century.

They're kinda like Corey Haim. Big in the 80's. Tried to make a comeback a coupla times, but nobody ever took them seriously. They'll probably end up being run in to the grave by a guy who looks like Charlie Sheen.

A joke club.

I liked the Corey Haim reference but to describe them as a joke club is taking things too far. They’ve apparently had a horror season but we only guaranteed 3rd place in the penultimate game of the season. They’ve finished 2nd or 3rd in the league for the last 8 maybe 9 years and have been our toughest opponents since we came back up. Like them or not, they’ve shown a level of consistency that I hope Hibs can go on to match.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I think we've seen the last of Aberdeen as pretenders now. Expect them to slip back in to the pack and struggle for top 6 as they have done for most of this century.

They're kinda like Corey Haim. Big in the 80's. Tried to make a comeback a coupla times, but nobody ever took them seriously. They'll probably end up being run in to the grave by a guy who looks like Charlie Sheen.

A joke club.

I do think they’ll struggle a bit for a few years. Really we have every advantage over them. Higher average attendances, we can offer Edinburgh as an incentive to players, and a chairman who so far is doing everything right. Our academy is performing too.

with hearts still in a right mess and likely to remain so for as long as budge is steering the ship (and far beyond if the kickback roasters have any say over decision making when FOH take over) we could really make that 3rd spot our own for the foreseeable future.

[GreyJammies]

I liked the Corey Haim reference but to describe them as a joke club is taking things too far. They’ve apparently had a horror season but we only guaranteed 3rd place in the penultimate game of the season. They’ve finished 2nd or 3rd in the league for the last 8 maybe 9 years and have been our toughest opponents since we came back up. Like them or not, they’ve shown a level of consistency that I hope Hibs can go on to match.

Their trophy cabinet is emptier than a North Sea oil well and they are as incapable of putting up a fight when it really matters as a dinner guest at Dennis Nilsens house. All those Sevco and Celtic defeats and semis and finals lost with a whimper.

They're done.

[Peevemor]

Their trophy cabinet is emptier than a North Sea oil well and they are as incapable of putting up a fight when it really matters as a dinner guest at Dennis Nilsens house. All those Sevco and Celtic defeats and semis and finals lost with a whimper.

They're done.I'm not sure the oil well comparison works. Yet.

[Pretty Boy]

Since the 1990/91 season Aberdeen have finished bottom 6 in 10 of 32 seasons. They finished bottom in 99/00 but were spared relegation. They were also in a relegation play off in 94/95 They have won 2 trophies in that time, both league cups.

In the same period Hibs have been bottom 6 in 12 of 28 top flight seasons, been relegated twice and been in 1 further play off. In that time we have won 3 trophies, 2 League Cups and a Scottish Cup and stand on the cusp of adding a 4th.

I'm not sure I would be inclined to swap places with them.

[Jones28]

Since the 1990/91 season Aberdeen have finished bottom 6 in 10 of 32 seasons. They finished bottom in 99/00 but were spared relegation. They were also in a relegation play off in 94/95 They have won 2 trophies in that time, both league cups.

In the same period Hibs have been bottom 6 in 12 of 28 top flight seasons, been relegated twice and been in 1 further play off. In that time we have won 3 trophies, 2 League Cups and a Scottish Cup and stand on the cusp of adding a 4th.

I'm not sure I would be inclined to swap places with them.

And in the meantime as a club we have fully modernised our stadium and built a new training complex, Aberdeen are only at the start of what is a long and expensive road.

[JOD]

Just done a bit my own homework looking at every league table on our history of being in the top 3 in Scottish Football.

It starts from 1896 when we were first allowed in despite having won promotion at least twice before that.

Result 1st =4
2nd=8
3rd=17

I don't think overall that is a bad record at all.

That gives us a 23% hit rate over 125 years of being in top 3. It does seems some to come in batches though
with some great ones but some real barren ones.

But that's why we support Hibs. Anything can happen.:greengrin

[ancient hibee]

From 1946/47 to 1952/53 we were only 3rd once.


Of course that’s because in the other seasons we were 1st or 2nd.:greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

Just done a bit my own homework looking at every league table on our history of being in the top 3 in Scottish Football.

It starts from 1896 when we were first allowed in despite having won promotion at least twice before that.

Result 1st =4
2nd=8
3rd=17

I don't think overall that is a bad record at all.

That gives us a 23% hit rate over 125 years of being in top 3. It does seems some to come in batches though
with some great ones but some real barren ones.

But that's why we support Hibs. Anything can happen.:greengrin

Interesting stats, thanks for that.

If you find yourself bored with time on your hands, can you do similar for Aberdeen and Hearts?! Would be good to see how we all compare.

[JOD]

Interesting stats, thanks for that.

If you find yourself bored with time on your hands, can you do similar for Aberdeen and Hearts?! Would be good to see how we all compare.

Yeah was thinking that. Will do.