Rangers and Celtic ‘B’ teams to join Lowland League

[Dan Sarf]

from today's Times...

"Rangers and Celtic are in advanced talks with the Lowland League about having their ‘B’ teams in the game’s fifth tier next season. The Lowland League hierarchy approached the Old Firm clubs, having decided the move would bring significant commercial benefits for their division. Rangers and Celtic are both enthusiastic because they see it as a way to bridge the gap..." (the rest is behind a paywall).

Why do I feel a sense of unease about this?

[Danderhall Hibs]

It’s the words Rangers and Celtic that’s causing your unease.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Pity it’s not their first teams

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57003260

Fortunately the BBC don't block content. SPFL clubs get to vote on it.

[Is It On....]

Not that unusual. Einburgh's B team played in the Championship this season 😂

[Allez Hibs]

Shouldn't be allowed to happen. Hopefully the club's see sense.

[ShadesLongThrow]

The key phrase in there is “significant commercial benefits”. That’s the sole reason for this. Nothing to do with growing the game or developing players.

[Billy Whizz]

Are they just participating, or can they get promotion

[lord bunberry]

As long as they can’t be promoted I don’t care.

[Waxy]

They should have to join at the bottom. Teams have been trying to get promoted to the lowland league.Play fair.

[tamig]

As long as they can’t be promoted I don’t care.

That’s my thinking. It wouldn’t be much of a commercial benefit to the league if they were both out of it in a couple of seasons.

[nonshinyfinish]

Are they just participating, or can they get promotion

IIRC when this came up before the proposal was that they could be promoted, but only to a certain level – I think it was the Championship? I'd assume this would be similar.

[hibbysam]

They should have to join at the bottom. Teams have been trying to get promoted to the lowland league.Play fair.

Exactly this. Absolute shambles from the SFA if they let this happen, and the Lowland league, who have been shouting and screaming about sporting integrity and the values of the pyramid, while at the same time in talks to boot around 50? Clubs square in the nads by allowing these two cretins to bypass them all.

[JimBHibees]

Are they just participating, or can they get promotion

Would clearly be the key issue

[chippy]

If it’s good enough for OF, let’s join as well. Enhance development of our under 18s plus a few late developers. Hibs Hearts Dons Arabs etc should only agree to it if they can join too in a pyramid restructure and OF can pay for it

[Since452]

Did Hibs not do similar in East of Scotland League? No issue with it as long as they cant be promoted.

[hibbycraig]

I think it's actually a good idea but only if other premiership teams can have teams involved if they chose to.

[offshorehibby]

Did Hibs not do similar in East of Scotland League? No issue with it as long as they cant be promoted.

We had a team in the EoS the season we got relegated, think that was one of the things that went for a bit of cost cutting.

[EI255]

Really doesn't bother me one jot!

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[Lago]

Maybe they still think there's still a possibility of going south to the Premier league, but think they can maintain a presence in Scotland by having colt teams competing in lowland league.

[Paul1642]

Just because it’s not in the top leagues doesn’t make it right. Why should Lowland league teams have to put up with coming 3rd as best that can be achieved any more so than Scottish lower leagues? Not right

[SJNB Hibby]

Really doesn't bother me one jot!

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

If they can't get promoted, I'm not too bothered. They finish 1st and 2nd...3rd place team wins the trophy and goes into the playoffs. If they can get promoted...nobody with ANY first team experience can sign for them

[Billy Whizz]

STV news saying it’s for one season only

[hibbysam]

STV news saying it’s for one season only

Only because they’ll be working their ticket to get them into league 2. This summer is too soon for it, so they’ll be working on every other club for the next 12 months to expand league 2 to 16 teams.

[greenlex]

I’d rather see more forward thinking Junior teams there if there’s any left in the pyramid system.

[cabbageandribs1875]

if they get promotion the lowland league clubs will just get one season of the benefits....

[Wakeyhibee]

This could financially disadvantage the Highland League come the playoffs.

No issue if they cant be promoted but one in Highland, one in Lowland then alternate. Wont happen because its probably too fair.

[Jack]

CLUB STATEMENT:

We are now aware that there is a proposal regarding Celtic and Rangers ‘B’ teams entering the Lowland League for season 21/22. There is a Lowland League meeting of member clubs on Monday 10th May to discuss the proposal. Whilst I feel it is only fair to hear out the proposal – and we have many questions and views arising – there is one issue that I feel is not being addressed.

The proposal is in effect to increase the size of the League by two places. If this is the case then I would demand these two places were first offered to clubs that have bought into the concept of a pyramid and are currently in the Lowland League feeder Leagues. Like Civil Service Strollers, they will have spent significant time and money to improve playing facilities etc. This must be both recognised and the spirit of the pyramid adhered to.

Russell Pryde
President
Civil Service Strollers FC

[marinello59]

This could financially disadvantage the Highland League come the playoffs.

No issue if they cant be promoted but one in Highland, one in Lowland then alternate. Wont happen because its probably too fair.

I think the Highland League will be just fine with out them and their baggage. There’s a long history of healthy rivalries there. The novelty of having them in the Lowland league will quickly wear off.

[Pretty Boy]

**** them.

The Strollers statement says it all. There are teams that are investing time and money trying to gain entry into the Lowland League on sporting merit. Football should always be a meritocracy and parachuting those 2 into anywhere other than the very bottom of the pyramid is wrong.

Aside from the unfairness on the teams in the EOS League and so on it's only a stepping stone into trying to get them into the league system proper.

[Newry Hibs]

It's always celtic AND rangers when things like thiso are discussed. Why doesnt one of them have the balls to go it alone?
It's almost like they work together.

[Glory Lurker]

Another example of The Rangers and Celtic being a double act. Joined at the hip,and together equally a blight on Scottish football.

[chippy]

STV news saying it’s for one season only

They would say that. Once the principle is established I don’t see it being reversed.

[Wakeyhibee]

I think the Highland League will be just fine with out them and their baggage. There’s a long history of healthy rivalries there. The novelty of having them in the Lowland league will quickly wear off.

Without the baggage for sure. Whilst the novelty will wear off, the finances will probably still be a plus for years to come. I think this colt thing will keep raising
its head until it finally becomes a reality. The goalposts will move to suit promoting them in the long run.

It's just the way of football and change on general.

[007]

I presume the SPFL sides in the top 4 tiers only get to vote if they want to be able to gain entry via promotion from the Lowland League. Any such proposals must be voted down. No way does any of this benefit Scottish football and any such claims are just a cover story. It is clearly just to benefit those 2 and they'll bribe the smaller clubs to get them on board.

[Andy74]

I presume the SPFL sides in the top 4 tiers only get to vote if they want to be able to gain entry via promotion from the Lowland League. Any such proposals must be voted down. No way does any of this benefit Scottish football and any such claims are just a cover story. It is clearly just to benefit those 2 and they'll bribe the smaller clubs to get them on board.

It doesn’t seem to have done leagues such as Spain, Portugal and Germany any harm.

Would need to be an option for any teams that wanted to do it rather than just Celtic and Rangers though.

[JohnMcM]

I’ll be truly hacked off if they get in at the expense of other clubs trying to get there by playing football. I don’t trust the motives of the uglies.

[chippy]

It’s going to happen sooner or later. I’d have it as part of a full restructure. A Premier league of 16 full time only professional clubs with reserve teams. A Championship of 10-16 that could realistically be termed full time professional clubs. Relegation /Promotion between
Premier and Champs. The Pyramid would be below this and there would be no promotion or relegation automatically. I’d go to a financial viability test if someone was to get demoted from the Champs. Pyramid would be semi pro / amateur and any premier club could have a Colts team In it. Perhaps a Top league of 20 with access to League Cup, Scottish cup and Challenge cup . Could have a 2nd tier if it’s regionalised. Colts teams to find their level but never any access to Full time Professional leagues

[007]

It doesn’t seem to have done leagues such as Spain, Portugal and Germany any harm.

Would need to be an option for any teams that wanted to do it rather than just Celtic and Rangers though.

Hasn't it? I don't know but I don’t buy the "it will benefit the Scottish game" BS. It is obviously to solely benefit Celtic and Rangers and will only serve to further widen the gap between them and the rest. I'd be interested to know how in Spain, Portugal and Germany it has benefited the other top tier teams who don't have B teams. I do agree with your 2nd paragraph about how it should be open to all clubs. Do you remember their sneaky proposal last year where the terms for other clubs doing it weren't as favourable?

One minute they want to leave and join a British Superleague (was that to help the Scottish game or was it just for selfish reasons?), the next minute they say the proposal re colt teams will help Scottish football. I'm okay with clubs trying to improve things for themselves but when it will be, IMO, to the detriment of others then I'm dead against it. I don't trust them and they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes with the "benefitting Scottish football" line.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It's always celtic AND rangers when things like thiso are discussed. Why doesnt one of them have the balls to go it alone?
It's almost like they work together.

aye... funny that isn’t it

[Allez Hibs]

Hasn't it? I don't know but I don’t buy the "it will benefit the Scottish game" BS. It is obviously to solely benefit Celtic and Rangers and will only serve to further widen the gap between them and the rest. I'd be interested to know how in Spain, Portugal and Germany it has benefited the other top tier teams who don't have B teams. I do agree with your 2nd paragraph about how it should be open to all clubs. Do you remember their sneaky proposal last year where the terms for other clubs doing it weren't as favourable?

One minute they want to leave and join a British Superleague (was that to help the Scottish game or was it just for selfish reasons?), the next minute they say the proposal re colt teams will help Scottish football. I'm okay with clubs trying to improve things for themselves but when it will be, IMO, to the detriment of others then I'm dead against it. I don't trust them and they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes with the "benefitting Scottish football" line.

Agree with this. How can Rangers and Celtic entering teams at that level benefit that league? It's a bit cheeky saying it will benefit that league commercially as its surely not about commercial benefits at that level? They shouldn't be allowed to dilute there presence into every part of the Scottish game.

[Malthibby]

**** them.

The Strollers statement says it all. There are teams that are investing time and money trying to gain entry into the Lowland League on sporting merit. Football should always be a meritocracy and parachuting those 2 into anywhere other than the very bottom of the pyramid is wrong.

Aside from the unfairness on the teams in the EOS League and so on it's only a stepping stone into trying to get them into the league system proper.

Yup. Totally unfair on the teams trying to win there way in. If it's the Old firm by definition it's not in the interest of anyone else, they're a disease & letting them spread
will cause nothing but damage.

[ballengeich]

The Lowland League should be told that if they admit teams which have not been promoted from below they have opted out of the pyramid system and future the end of season playoffs will be bottom of league 2 v the Highland champions.

[Dan Sarf]

"At a virtual meeting on April 9, hosted by Stewart, and including a representative from Celtic FC, the SPFL and Scottish FA, there was general consensus on the call that given the adverse publicity and temperature among clubs, the proposal was unlikely to garner the support of enough clubs to enable the SPFL rule change to progress further."

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7077633/sfa-rangers-robertson-inaccuracies-interview-colts/

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/sport/celtic-and-rangers-b-teams-plans-met-with-opposition?top

Not looking good for the B teams 👍

[Purple & Green]

I’d rather see more forward thinking Junior teams there if there’s any left in the pyramid system.

They're all in the pyramid now. The last remnants moved across for the coming season.

[Purple & Green]

https://news.stv.tv/sport/celtic-and-rangers-b-teams-plans-met-with-opposition?top

Not looking good for the B teams 👍

Unfortunately I think Bonnyrigg and Civil are in a minority and the proposal may well be carried tonight. There's something happening here - Scottish Football Innovation Paper which is often referred to, but no one has seen.

I think the Lowland League will be stunningly naive to accept this proposal - there is not any benefit here for the LL, whatever is in this proposal the value is all for Rangers and Celtic.

[ancient hibee]

£50K will make up minds

[Purple & Green]

£50K will make up minds

£50K split 16 ways is £3,125.00

In terms of the top half of the league it's barely a players wages for a year.

I think you're right though, that will turn some heads.

[Billy Whizz]

£50K will make up minds

They shouldn’t be allowed to get promotion though

[Greencore]

If they want to join the lowland league, they shouldn't be allowed and should start in the west of Scotland lower leagues. Not fair on the teams in the lowland league who have had to pay through the nose to meet requirements.

[hibbysam]

They shouldn’t be allowed to get promotion though

They wouldn’t get promoted, however they’re banking on being allowed this for a year the spending the next year bribing league 2 clubs to expand there next year.

[GreenCastle]

The worst part of Scottish football is Old Firm dominance- why would you allow them more teams ?

1 season is madness.

Why don’t they start a reserve league ?

Why don’t they play younger players ? Well they buy talent and then even when league is won in March they don’t play youngsters.

Any word from vote this evening ?

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

The worst part of Scottish football is Old Firm dominance- why would you allow them more teams ?

1 season is madness.

Why don’t they start a reserve league ?

Why don’t they play younger players ? Well they buy talent and then even when league is won in March they don’t play youngsters.

Any word from vote this evening ?

From a journo on Twitter.

Lowland League clubs vote in favour of admitting Celtic and Rangers colts teams to their league next season.

Eleven clubs in favour, five against, one abstained.

Indicative vote, with confirmation expected at AGM in two weeks.

[04Sauzee]

From Twitter

Lowland League clubs vote in favour of admitting Celtic and Rangers colts teams to their league next season.

Eleven clubs in favour, five against, one abstained.

Indicative vote, with confirmation expected at AGM in two weeks.

[Paul1642]

Money talks :(

[davy67 +]

Shameful decision :furious:

[KWJ]

As mentioned earlier, we had a team in the league below this and chose to withdraw it. I think Stranraer have a colt team in the pyramid too.

There are problems with it but I don't understand why this isn't being said, it's happened before.

Had a look and Stranraer colts are in the south of scotland league which can be promoted to the lowland league.

[hibbysam]

As mentioned earlier, we had a team in the league below this and chose to withdraw it. I think Stranraer have a colt team in the pyramid too.

There are problems with it but I don't understand why this isn't being said, it's happened before.

Had a look and Stranraer colts are in the south of scotland league which can be promoted to the lowland league.

Issue isn’t with colt teams, of which there are plenty, Stranraer, Edinburgh uni, Stirling Uni etc, all have colt teams, but all started at the bottom. If these clubs want to start at the bottom fine, if not they shouldn’t be jumping the queue of clubs who have spent thousands to get into position.

[Eyrie]

Issue isn’t with colt teams, of which there are plenty, Stranraer, Edinburgh uni, Stirling Uni etc, all have colt teams, but all started at the bottom. If these clubs want to start at the bottom fine, if not they shouldn’t be jumping the queue of clubs who have spent thousands to get into position.

Sevco have form for for entering half way up a league structure.

[Hibrandenburg]

It doesn’t seem to have done leagues such as Spain, Portugal and Germany any harm.

Would need to be an option for any teams that wanted to do it rather than just Celtic and Rangers though.

It's been the case in Germany for decades. HOWEVER the regional leagues in Germany are big enough to allow smaller traditional teams to survive. It would only work in Scotland if they expanded the amount of teams in the league.

Personally, providing there's no promotion for B teams allowed and the leagues are expanded, then I think smaller teams could benefit from it.

[hibbysam]

Sevco have form for for entering half way up a league structure.

That’s not strictly true. At the time they entered the league that was the bottom tier. The Pyramid started the following year IIRC.

[PolmontHibby]

We can be sure that they are not looking to do this for the benefit of Scottish football as whole, or the Lowland League. They must see some advantage to their "A" team from the arrangement, and any advantage to them is by definition a disadvantage to their competition such as ourselves.

Should not be supported.

[Purple & Green]

As mentioned earlier, we had a team in the league below this and chose to withdraw it. I think Stranraer have a colt team in the pyramid too.

There are problems with it but I don't understand why this isn't being said, it's happened before.

Had a look and Stranraer colts are in the south of scotland league which can be promoted to the lowland league.

Stranraer Reserves are ineligible for promotion to the lowland league. Cant remember why though.

[hibsforeurope]

The money offered is what made this happen. asked my local lowland league team if this offer would be expanded to other teams, repose was no one else could afford it, so sounds like they haven't even approached others.

not sure on the rules but this could have been used by Hibs to get fringe players games.

[JXM73]

Not seen this mentioned here, this is for one season only... sounds iffy to me and if not only one of them would get promoted as pyramid stands....

[Waxy]

Pretty much ruins the lowland league.
I’ll be supporting the league side from now. Cmon Brechin.

[Eyrie]

That’s not strictly true. At the time they entered the league that was the bottom tier. The Pyramid started the following year IIRC.

Didn't realise that.

[Billy Whizz]

Are their any rules about ages of players who can play in the league, or can 1st team players returning from injury get a run out?

[hibbysam]

Are their any rules about ages of players who can play in the league, or can 1st team players returning from injury get a run out?

Seen it quoted tonight it’s 17-20 year olds apart from keepers.