Tories are still lying *******s

[wookie70]

Interesting fact-checking on BJ's speech by the BBC.

BBC News - Boris Johnson's conference speech fact-checked
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58818531

Not exactly pro-Tory.

Did they check everything though.

The one that rips ma knitting is using wage growth as a plus when bigging themselves up and then an anomaly when not boosting pensions. It stinks of a government who will distort and use figures to their advantage at every opportunity and actually change the message associated with the same figures when it suits them. They are spin Chameleons

[Berwickhibby]

It’s reported in the press today, I know the only thing you can believe in a newspaper is the date, that Sir Peter Bottomly, MP, father of the house, has said that living on the £81,000 annual salary was “really grim”, and calls for them to receive a pay rise. With all the added extras they receive their salary is just over £100,000 a year. I feel so sorry for them I was going to start a “go fund me” page for them. 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

[cabbageandribs1875]

Brilliant :agree:

Friendly Fires Brand Conservatives A 'Bunch Of W*****s' After Use Of Their Song At Party Conference | HuffPost UK (huffingtonpost.co.uk) (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/friendly-fires-conservative-party-conference-song-blue-cassette_uk_615dcc57e4b08d08062d4eb5?d_id=2689562&ncid_tag=fcbklnkukhpmg00000001&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=uk_main&fbclid=IwAR3HOphR1rHbEseAm7N_bNhkw6SFRqyMkGIbPiTve L54VkgO-UYfoQs7KS8)

[Tobias Funke]

Brilliant :agree:

Friendly Fires Brand Conservatives A 'Bunch Of W*****s' After Use Of Their Song At Party Conference | HuffPost UK (huffingtonpost.co.uk) (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/friendly-fires-conservative-party-conference-song-blue-cassette_uk_615dcc57e4b08d08062d4eb5?d_id=2689562&ncid_tag=fcbklnkukhpmg00000001&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=uk_main&fbclid=IwAR3HOphR1rHbEseAm7N_bNhkw6SFRqyMkGIbPiTve L54VkgO-UYfoQs7KS8)

Excellent.

[One Day Soon]

It’s reported in the press today, I know the only thing you can believe in a newspaper is the date, that Sir Peter Bottomly, MP, father of the house, has said that living on the £81,000 annual salary was “really grim”, and calls for them to receive a pay rise. With all the added extras they receive their salary is just over £100,000 a year. I feel so sorry for them I was going to start a “go fund me” page for them. 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡


An intervention from the Conservative Party's political kamikaze wing there. ****ing idiot. (Him not you BH!)

[wookie70]

It’s reported in the press today, I know the only thing you can believe in a newspaper is the date, that Sir Peter Bottomly, MP, father of the house, has said that living on the £81,000 annual salary was “really grim”, and calls for them to receive a pay rise. With all the added extras they receive their salary is just over £100,000 a year. I feel so sorry for them I was going to start a “go fund me” page for them. 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

That is what I read but he thought that MPs needed about £115K to be at same standard of living, presumably he thinks MPs work more hours or similar. Basically a typical self-entitled Tory with absolutely no idea how the other half live and also no conscience to say it on the day they reduce the income of those most in need of money by over a grand.

[Bostonhibby]

That is what I read but he thought that MPs needed about £115K to be at same standard of living, presumably he thinks MPs work more hours or similar. Basically a typical self-entitled Tory with absolutely no idea how the other half live and also no conscience to say it on the day they reduce the income of those most in need of money by over a grand.Maybe this shameless character should just do a fatty Foulkes and roll up to the House of Lords for a free feed and a sleep and a couple of hundred a day appearance money?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

It’s reported in the press today, I know the only thing you can believe in a newspaper is the date, that Sir Peter Bottomly, MP, father of the house, has said that living on the £81,000 annual salary was “really grim”, and calls for them to receive a pay rise. With all the added extras they receive their salary is just over £100,000 a year. I feel so sorry for them I was going to start a “go fund me” page for them. ������������������


Its not much different to Edwina Currie giving it the 'we're all right up here in Cheshire' on Good Morning Britain the other day. You'd think they were out to sabotage their own side with crap like that but they're actually emboldened. Right wing Extremists are being emboldened everywhere, keep an eye on Eric Zemmour in France, makes Le Pen look like a liberal.

[Andy Bee]

Its not much different to Edwina Currie giving it the 'we're all right up here in Cheshire' on Good Morning Britain the other day. You'd think they were out to sabotage their own side with crap like that but they're actually emboldened. Right wing Extremists are being emboldened everywhere, keep an eye on Eric Zemmour in France, makes Le Pen look like a liberal.


I'm actually beginning to think they're wheeling these dinosaurs out on purpose just to remind the far right that they're still there. The problem is Tories have nobody on the right to challenge them, which allows them to dabble their toes into even center/center left policies without any consequencies from other right wing parties i.e. wheeling Johnson out spraffing on about levelling up etc and thus hoovering support up from everywhere. If Starmer thinks going all Tony Blair on Johnsons ass is going to cure that he's way off the mark. Dare I say it but someone needs to unbox the Farage again.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211011/e7828bcbfcaa82e97de193db385036f2.jpg

Scottish Tories going for the flat out lie tactic.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211011/e7828bcbfcaa82e97de193db385036f2.jpg

Scottish Tories going for the flat out lie tactic.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got there about 10 minutes before kick off, short queues at the east stand turnstile and moving quickly. There is no way you would have known we were in a pandemic at Hampden. No masks, hugging, high fiving, no cordon, no checks etc etc. Judging by how drunk many fans were it could have got interesting very quickly if checks had stopped fans getting in on time.

[Callum_62]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=416060059881095&id=100044313135399

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[H18S NX]

They should bring this man back...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTAClNQUUeE

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm actually beginning to think they're wheeling these dinosaurs out on purpose just to remind the far right that they're still there. The problem is Tories have nobody on the right to challenge them, which allows them to dabble their toes into even center/center left policies without any consequencies from other right wing parties i.e. wheeling Johnson out spraffing on about levelling up etc and thus hoovering support up from everywhere. If Starmer thinks going all Tony Blair on Johnsons ass is going to cure that he's way off the mark. Dare I say it but someone needs to unbox the Farage again.

Nigel ChuckieArLarage you mean? :wink:

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1447878940501098507

[Ozyhibby]

Nigel ChuckieArLarage you mean? :wink:

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1447878940501098507

To be fair, he’s done more for Irish re-unification than most.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211011/e7828bcbfcaa82e97de193db385036f2.jpg

Scottish Tories going for the flat out lie tactic.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is shocking. Absolute joke of a party.

[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/12/matt-hancock-appointed-un-special-envoy-to-help-covid-recovery-in-africa?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/12/matt-hancock-appointed-un-special-envoy-to-help-covid-recovery-in-africa?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another reward for failure in the tories!!

[Kato]

Another reward for failure in the tories!!LinkedIn mafia.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/12/matt-hancock-appointed-un-special-envoy-to-help-covid-recovery-in-africa?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


flippin heck i was just telling folk yesterday that it was a cert that corrupt crook would be back in a high position in parliament soon enough...i wasn't far away with my prediction

[cabbageandribs1875]

meanwhile the Cheltenham races and the Liverpool CL game possibly led to at least 78 covid deaths, i remember thinking at the time Cheltenham going ahead was just incredibly insane


money is more important than lives though, for some

[James310]

I think both governments made mistakes about mass gatherings as they were probably getting the same advice.

Catherine Calderwood at the time said "we know that mass gatherings and stopping those are not the best way to contain the virus"

Jason Leitch remember was telling us to "hug our granny" and said he would have gone to the Stereophonics at the SECC in Glasgow if he could, and Lewis Capaldi played to 11,000 in Aberdeen days after the Cheltenham Festival took place.

[wookie70]

I think both governments made mistakes about mass gatherings as they were probably getting the same advice.

Catherine Calderwood at the time said "we know that mass gatherings and stopping those are not the best way to contain the virus"

Jason Leitch remember was telling us to "hug our granny" and said he would have gone to the Stereophonics at the SECC in Glasgow if he could, and Lewis Capaldi played to 11,000 in Aberdeen days after the Cheltenham Festival took place.

I remember discussing it at the time and all my mates and family thought the governments were certifiable for allowing those events to continue. My view hasn't changed. It is akin to Corporate manslaughter to me.

[lord bunberry]

meanwhile the Cheltenham races and the Liverpool CL game possibly led to at least 78 covid deaths, i remember thinking at the time Cheltenham going ahead was just incredibly insane


money is more important than lives though, for some
That was my favourite ever Cheltenham, you could get served at the bar really quickly and I won a right few quid. I remember at the time being quite surprised that it went ahead. The only advice at that time was to wash your hands regularly. Looking back now it seems crazy that it went ahead.

[Smartie]

I remember an Old Firm game being called off really quite late, maybe a few days before it was due to go ahead.

It all looks mad with hindsight but certain events are huge in people's lives and it takes a lot for us to reconsider their importance.

It was pretty unthinkable that an Old Firm game would be called off, and there was an awful lot of "what about the tv companies, what about the viewing figures for a rearranged game" etc etc.

The governments look pretty foolish with hindsight knowing what we now know about the coronavirus but it's not easy for them to get public on board with cancelling the events which are the most important in their social calendars.

[wookie70]

That was my favourite ever Cheltenham, you could get served at the bar really quickly and I won a right few quid. I remember at the time being quite surprised that it went ahead. The only advice at that time was to wash your hands regularly. Looking back now it seems crazy that it went ahead.

It didn't seem crazy at the time. Hindsight isn't required for many of the decisions made by Government early on and Cheltenham was obviously a ridiculous decision at that time.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211014/5188354d34a56be1a3e9ca72914b7a8f.jpg

Crisis? What crisis? [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211014/5188354d34a56be1a3e9ca72914b7a8f.jpg

Crisis? What crisis? [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s actually a joke. There is no UK opposition.

[Andy Bee]

It’s actually a joke. There is no UK opposition.


He's busy sorting out the driver shortage.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2021/oct/13/you-would-have-failed-keir-starmer-hits-fence-in-mock-lorry-driving-test-video


Or maybe not.

[Bostonhibby]

A variation on that brexit favourite.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211014/aebce6a2da3adb8b7a5f6b2b0a8c6151.jpg

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

Tory voters are ****. Tens of thousands dead, billions handed to their mates and they’re happy to endorse it.

[Bostonhibby]

Tory voters are ****. Tens of thousands dead, billions handed to their mates and they’re happy to endorse it. There's a firm inability to accept that they might have got something wrong, or that anything corrupt is going on.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

There's a firm inability to accept that they might have got something wrong, or that anything corrupt is going on.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

At least a Tory minister has finally apologised for the failings highlighted in the COVID report. Twenty thousand preventable deaths in care homes; it only took them about three days to say sorry. The Tory spin doctors must have told ministers that refusing to apologise doesn't look good.

[Bostonhibby]

At least a Tory minister has finally apologised for the failings highlighted in the COVID report. Twenty thousand preventable deaths in care homes; it only took them about three days to say sorry. The Tory spin doctors must have told ministers that refusing to apologise doesn't look good.Eat out to spread Covid surely accounted for quite a bit of spread as well.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Eat out to spread Covid surely accounted for quite a bit of spread as well.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Yes, that was another disastrous move.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.cityam.com/sunak-causes-rift-cabinet-ev-discount-end/

Sunak wants to scrap the EV grant!

[Stairway 2 7]

Tory mp Sir David amess reportedly stabbed multiple times at his surgery today. Absolutely disgusting, after Jo Cox incident you'd hope that was a one off. Hopefully OK

[wookie70]

https://www.cityam.com/sunak-causes-rift-cabinet-ev-discount-end/

Sunak wants to scrap the EV grant! I like the idea to build the network of chargers etc but why stop the EV Grant. Hope they get crucified at COP for this decision. At this point all Governments should have one eye on Covid and the other firmly on the Environment. Every sinew should be strained in making dramatic and positive changes. We get a Chancellor that says it is one or the other, what a total weapon

[mjhibby]

I remember discussing it at the time and all my mates and family thought the governments were certifiable for allowing those events to continue. My view hasn't changed. It is akin to Corporate manslaughter to me.

Totally agree.Was on hols at the time and the pictures from Cheltenham were just jawsdropping.Of course no one will possibly accept responsibility. Its 2021 for goodness sake. Get with the plan.

[Ozyhibby]

Hancock’s new job terminated before it begins.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211016/30dafb49ab17702c665a3ba650a6c51a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211016/fdfb95c9e8d9aeb885f0795be1632339.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

Hancock’s new job terminated before it begins.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211016/30dafb49ab17702c665a3ba650a6c51a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211016/fdfb95c9e8d9aeb885f0795be1632339.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I remember taking stick on here for suggesting back then, that the EU were slow out of the blocks because they were looking at getting a global vaccination plan up and running but had the plan scuppered by the UK and US grabbing first dibs on vaccines forcing the EU to follow suit.

[He's here!]

I think both governments made mistakes about mass gatherings as they were probably getting the same advice.

Catherine Calderwood at the time said "we know that mass gatherings and stopping those are not the best way to contain the virus"

Jason Leitch remember was telling us to "hug our granny" and said he would have gone to the Stereophonics at the SECC in Glasgow if he could, and Lewis Capaldi played to 11,000 in Aberdeen days after the Cheltenham Festival took place.

We also had a Six Nations match with circa 70k in attendance plus an Edinburgh derby get the go-ahead. Easy to brush it off as SNP bashing but you wonder if these events would have taken pace had Sturgeon not overruled medical advice to make the Nike conference issue public.

I don't think the devolved nations will be spared criticism in the public inquiry.

[Moulin Yarns]

We also had a Six Nations match with circa 70k in attendance plus an Edinburgh derby get the go-ahead. Easy to brush it off as SNP bashing but you wonder if these events would have taken pace had Sturgeon not overruled medical advice to make the Nike conference issue public.

I don't think the devolved nations will be spared criticism in the public inquiry.

There has been a report on the Nike conference and there was found to be no evidence of any further covid transmission in the community as a result of the conference.

[Ozyhibby]

We also had a Six Nations match with circa 70k in attendance plus an Edinburgh derby get the go-ahead. Easy to brush it off as SNP bashing but you wonder if these events would have taken pace had Sturgeon not overruled medical advice to make the Nike conference issue public.

I don't think the devolved nations will be spared criticism in the public inquiry.

I think the devolved nations will take the majority of the blame when the UK govt have their inquiry.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Just Alf]

There has been a report on the Nike conference and there was found to be no evidence of any further covid transmission in the community as a result of the conference.Also the government were told at the time by the medical folks to not publish anything to protect attendees confidentiality (the numbers were so low it would have been easy to work out who had it etc)

[greenginger]

There has been a report on the Nike conference and there was found to be no evidence of any further covid transmission in the community as a result of the conference.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/edinburghs-nike-conference-covid-outbreak-nicola-sturgeon-denied-it-but-now-we-know-there-was-a-cover-up-ian-murray-mp-3417927

According to this article there was a further 38 covid infections linked to the Nike conference.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/edinburghs-nike-conference-covid-outbreak-nicola-sturgeon-denied-it-but-now-we-know-there-was-a-cover-up-ian-murray-mp-3417927

According to this article there was a further 38 covid infections linked to the Nike conference.

Am I really looking at an article written by Ian Murray, The Only Labour MP in Scotland!!! An OPINION PIECE!!

Here is what I heard...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58810370


(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58810370)

From the OFFICIAL report


An outbreak of COVID-19 was identified in Scotland on 2 March 2020 following the detection of a case among 71 delegates who attended a conference in Edinburgh between 25 and 27 February 2020. The delegates were from Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and the Netherlands.
Twenty-three primary cases were linked to the conference and 16 secondary cases were subsequently identified.


In Scotland, eight cases were directly linked to the conference (six primary and two secondary cases).

[degenerated]

Am I really looking at an article written by Ian Murray, The Only Labour MP in Scotland!!! An OPINION PIECE!!

Here is what I heard...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58810370


(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58810370)

From the OFFICIAL reportPesky facts

[Glory Lurker]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/edinburghs-nike-conference-covid-outbreak-nicola-sturgeon-denied-it-but-now-we-know-there-was-a-cover-up-ian-murray-mp-3417927

According to this article there was a further 38 covid infections linked to the Nike conference.

Science says there was no community transmission.

[Moulin Yarns]

Pesky facts

I know. It really doesn't help the anti government rhetoric, does it? 😁

[Bostonhibby]

I think the devolved nations will take the majority of the blame when the UK govt have their inquiry.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBe interesting to see what any enquiry has to say about the spread of Covid and any increase in deaths and infections as a result of Bozo & Sunak's Eat out to "help out" idea.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245952996_10218388258154548_1204339159015971929_n. jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Mw1216JHTLMAX-A81Cy&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8035d329ebaaa4d7582629ab204b4c83&oe=61931290

[weecounty hibby]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245952996_10218388258154548_1204339159015971929_n. jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Mw1216JHTLMAX-A81Cy&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8035d329ebaaa4d7582629ab204b4c83&oe=61931290
That is a very very dangerous road to be going down. I was led to believe that the court was the ultimate arbiter in all things. Just like when Westminster took Holyrood to court recently

[Bostonhibby]

That is a very very dangerous road to be going down. I was led to believe that the court was the ultimate arbiter in all things. Just like when Westminster took Holyrood to court recentlyHopefully taking back control of our long established independent court system will be as successful as taking back control of everything else Bozo was taking back control of.

Slippery slope towards totalitarianism if this one gets any momentum.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211017/691e3915e6f3e83e7d7213037b56b337.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245952996_10218388258154548_1204339159015971929_n. jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Mw1216JHTLMAX-A81Cy&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8035d329ebaaa4d7582629ab204b4c83&oe=61931290

Ehhh…eh?

[lapsedhibee]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245952996_10218388258154548_1204339159015971929_n. jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Mw1216JHTLMAX-A81Cy&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8035d329ebaaa4d7582629ab204b4c83&oe=61931290

Is that real though? Raaab's name is spelled wrongly.

[cabbageandribs1875]

That is a very very dangerous road to be going down. I was led to believe that the court was the ultimate arbiter in all things. Just like when Westminster took Holyrood to court recently

i vaguely remember reading an article with a quote from a tory spokesperson that they were raging a judge chose the side of Joanna cherry and, i think Gina millar ? anyway, they were going to be making inroads in wanting more 'government friendly' judges, ala what Trump had started doing in America, this has only been stalled due to all the s**tfest that has been happening during 20/21

[cabbageandribs1875]

Is that real though? Raaab's name is spelled wrongly.


:greengrin i'll hae a week search on the google thingy and look for any quotes, it came from fb so quite possibly..........true :)

[Glory Lurker]

i vaguely remember reading an article with a quote from a tory spokesperson that they were raging a judge chose the side of Joanna cherry and, i think Gina millar ? anyway, they were going to be making inroads in wanting more 'government friendly' judges, ala what Trump had started doing in America, this has only been stalled due to all the s**tfest that has been happening during 20/21

Reigning in judicial review was in their manifesto in 2019.

[Andy Bee]

That is a very very dangerous road to be going down. I was led to believe that the court was the ultimate arbiter in all things. Just like when Westminster took Holyrood to court recently


I suppose Parliament holds that position in that if Westminster lost in the recent case you mentioned then they could go back to Parliament and try to vote through a change in the law to suit. What Raaaab is suggesting is a single Government minister can change or at least overule the decision of the Judge without Parliaments involvement. That's just mental when you think of some of the things they would be capable of.

[Glory Lurker]

It's ironic that a government representing and empowered by anti-eastern European xenophobia is going The Full Poland.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i do enjoy listening to George Monbiot, and not just because he thinks this country would be mad not to vote for independence, he's spot on in this video from several months ago when he mentions the craziness of why people are getting hurt but they still vote for this Tory Government=media propaganda, iirc it's something like 80% of the press is owned by Tories, even worse is state TV is now under total control of the Tories.

How Britain Could Become a Failed State | George Monbiot (doubledown.news) (https://www.doubledown.news/watch/2021/11/february/how-britain-could-become-a-failed-state-george-monbiot?fbclid=IwAR3Gr3CKv7BQCBJjG_CybWT8TlUd_ZMgq G_yi5ro31DXm9BLG3KZ2SDsVAo)

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/246414176_431441051674969_2285182393442062577_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lqKvlnOC124AX-NhKQb&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=920137663c9657ca3202bec4716b557c&oe=61944234

[Bostonhibby]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/246414176_431441051674969_2285182393442062577_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lqKvlnOC124AX-NhKQb&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=920137663c9657ca3202bec4716b557c&oe=61944234The Nasty party, and it's because, as Nige and Baz keep telling everyone in the pub, human rights, independent judiciary and fundamental freedom is why we don't have an empire anymore.

Get no human right dun.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

The Nasty party, and it's because, as Nige and Baz keep telling everyone in the pub, human rights, independent judiciary and fundamental freedom is why we don't have an empire anymore.

Get no human right dun.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

at least 'some' good news today....finally

screenshot on fb for the express as no one wants to click on it's link :)

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245657410_1258571581285911_471748229026178242_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=LGGsuT6Y_qwAX9qrCj_&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=d3c50dc653220b747c872d95eaf73bfa&oe=61945D0C



another source..
High Speed Rail 2 section CANCELLED as costs spiral out of control – Fast Sentinel (desertofvice.com) (https://desertofvice.com/news/high-speed-rail-2-section-cancelled-as-costs-spiral-out-of-control/)

This would be a major setback in Boris Johnson’s promise to deliver “levelling up” for the north of England.
The DfT has strongly denied “not true” and “false” claims from a whistleblower that the real cost of HS2 is now at least £160.6billion and could be as high as £200billion.


i'm sure Johnson will find another vanity project....or tory donors to give it to instead

[Ozyhibby]

By the time it gets cancelled the press will have turned the population against the project so much that it will be seen a a great victory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

at least 'some' good news today....finally

screenshot on fb for the express as no one wants to click on it's link :)

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245657410_1258571581285911_471748229026178242_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=LGGsuT6Y_qwAX9qrCj_&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=d3c50dc653220b747c872d95eaf73bfa&oe=61945D0C



another source..
High Speed Rail 2 section CANCELLED as costs spiral out of control – Fast Sentinel (desertofvice.com) (https://desertofvice.com/news/high-speed-rail-2-section-cancelled-as-costs-spiral-out-of-control/)

This would be a major setback in Boris Johnson’s promise to deliver “levelling up” for the north of England.
The DfT has strongly denied “not true” and “false” claims from a whistleblower that the real cost of HS2 is now at least £160.6billion and could be as high as £200billion.


i'm sure Johnson will find another vanity project....or tory donors to give it to insteadBozo having a major project ***** a load of money, over run on nearly every front, consultants/donors fill their boots and it's never actually delivered?

Think Garden Bridge.....

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211018/8033e94df1c9ede270fd771e53e6f3aa.jpg

Turns out Johnson did save Xmas. His own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lendo]

Bozo having a major project ***** a load of money, over run on nearly every front, consultants/donors fill their boots and it's never actually delivered?

Think Garden Bridge.....

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk


But at least his own family made a few million quid out of it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/boris-johnsons-dad-compensated-hs2-11003930.amp

[cabbageandribs1875]

and the corruption continued...

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246732461_4812010855496271_1815903846105367181_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lYgkgJ9xI0gAX9aBxFu&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=bd90fc4c8c680d8e07dab15b552bdc46&oe=61733F04

[James310]

and the corruption continued...

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246732461_4812010855496271_1815903846105367181_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lYgkgJ9xI0gAX9aBxFu&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=bd90fc4c8c680d8e07dab15b552bdc46&oe=61733F04

I know you like your cut and pastes from Facebook or wherever you get them from but they are often wrong. The one above for example, Nadim Zahawi has not been a director of that company for about 4 years. Also what is "£2.6M profit" from the NHS, what does that mean? The size of the contract, in which case it won't be profit, is it the profit the company made on the contract? Do you know? Maybe one of the financial experts we have on here can explain it?

Have a go by all means if there has been some dodgy goings on, maybe I am old fashioned but facts matter in the age of misinformation.

[Kato]

The one above for example, Nadim Zahawi has not been a director of that company for about 4 years.

.

Have removed your perfectly reasonable points. But leaving in the above- that still stinks.


Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

I know you like your cut and pastes from Facebook or wherever you get them from but they are often wrong. The one above for example, Nadim Zahawi has not been a director of that company for about 4 years. Also what is "£2.6M profit" from the NHS, what does that mean? The size of the contract, in which case it won't be profit, is it the profit the company made on the contract? Do you know? Maybe one of the financial experts we have on here can explain it?

Have a go by all means if there has been some dodgy goings on, maybe I am old fashioned but facts matter in the age of misinformation.




Government owned firm handed over £1m in contracts to firm with Tory MP as shareholder in pandemic | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497839/Government-owned-firm-handed-1m-contracts-firm-Tory-MP-shareholder-pandemic.html) there's a stench around him and every single Tory cabinet member

i do love you defending the Tory government though for such a staunch liberal democrat, have you EVER criticised any of them, ANY ? you know so much about them

[James310]

love and kisses jimmy

i mean john, i mean awk no matter my favourite lib, erm, i mean

Out of interest where do you get all your screenshots from?

[James310]

Have removed your perfectly reasonable points. But leaving in the above- that still stinks.


Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

It may well stink, if we knew what £2.6M profit out of the NHS actually meant.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Out of interest where do you get all your screenshots from?


ermm why ? :confused:

[cabbageandribs1875]

go dougie ross...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upK8UO5Ae8

[Jack]

It may well stink, if we knew what £2.6M profit out of the NHS actually meant.

It means £2.6m going into the profits of the company rather that patient care.

[Skol]

and the corruption continued...

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246732461_4812010855496271_1815903846105367181_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lYgkgJ9xI0gAX9aBxFu&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=bd90fc4c8c680d8e07dab15b552bdc46&oe=61733F04

The typo in the name of the firm made it tricky to google for background until you noticed the mistake.

[ronaldo7]

I know you like your cut and pastes from Facebook or wherever you get them from but they are often wrong. The one above for example, Nadim Zahawi has not been a director of that company for about 4 years. Also what is "£2.6M profit" from the NHS, what does that mean? The size of the contract, in which case it won't be profit, is it the profit the company made on the contract? Do you know? Maybe one of the financial experts we have on here can explain it?

Have a go by all means if there has been some dodgy goings on, maybe I am old fashioned but facts matter in the age of misinformation.


The many, many, dodgy goings on have been happening for a number of years, and I've still to see the Tory apologists on here pull them up for it. They just abandon the threads as if it's not happening.

I'd suggest you follow these guys, who are actually holding the government to account in the courts, and it might help you understand why this thread is a constant leader in the Holy ground.

https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject

[ronaldo7]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/18/uk-government-told-reveal-firms-given-vip-covid-contracts-ppe?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tory Ministers up to their neck in it.

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/18/uk-government-told-reveal-firms-given-vip-covid-contracts-ppe?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tory Ministers up to their neck in it.

"Robust assurance processes" :faf: Probably Hancock's landlord chum assuring him he wouldn't have to pay for drinks ever again.

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/tomtugendhat/status/1450341412617269248?s=21

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211019/006ac3be4c6e8796f553ffe615f14e60.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/tomtugendhat/status/1450341412617269248?s=21
Tugendhat not happy with the performance of his Tory colleague.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/18/uk-government-told-reveal-firms-given-vip-covid-contracts-ppe?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tory Ministers up to their neck in it.

I'm sure Raab will be along soon to tell us there's a bill being worked on that allows the government to override any investigation's conclusions.

[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/AlanBrownSNP/status/1450460389708292109

This just about covers the Tory lies, although some Lib dems were involved back in 2014

[GRA]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunak-to-slash-tax-on-bank-profits-just-weeks-after-national-insurance-hike-296163/

Levelling up by increasing NI contributions yet slashing taxes on bank profits?! Disgraceful!

[Radium]

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/10/22/the-mash-report-had-to-censor-boris-johnson-quotes-because-they-breach-daves-guidelines/

Boris quotes edited because they breach the channels guidelines

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaveF]

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/10/22/the-mash-report-had-to-censor-boris-johnson-quotes-because-they-breach-daves-guidelines/

Boris quotes edited because they breach the channels guidelines

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I tried to read that but it's just too confusing..

Mash, Dave, tweets here, there and everywhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunak-to-slash-tax-on-bank-profits-just-weeks-after-national-insurance-hike-296163/

Levelling up by increasing NI contributions yet slashing taxes on bank profits?! Disgraceful!

From another angle, he's increasing them from 27% to 28%. 😉

[Bostonhibby]

From another angle, he's increasing them from 27% to 28%. [emoji6]So he's definitely upping but it's deficient to the tune of levelling.

That'll work on the side of a bus and some folk will even vote for it.


Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

not really a lot a normal thinking person can say to rees-mogg uttering total ****e...again, every single Tory tries to out-do the idiocy from each other, each member of Johnson's cabal will go down in the history books as the dumbest of dumb ****s ever to 'run' a Westminster Government and in hundreds of years time the public will want to know why they got voted in.


Jacob Rees-Mogg roasted for suggestion Tories don’t need masks in Commons because they ‘know each other’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/other/jacob-rees-mogg-roasted-for-suggestion-tories-don-t-need-masks-in-commons-because-they-know-each-other/ar-AAPNqlo?ocid=msedgntp)


Jacob Rees-Mogg (https://www.indy100.com/topic/jacob-rees-mogg) has left the world of politics reeling after he claimed Conservative (https://www.indy100.com/topic/conservative) MPs (https://www.indy100.com/topic/mps) do not need to wear masks (https://www.indy100.com/topic/masks) in the House of Commons (https://www.indy100.com/topic/house-of-commons-0) to curb the spread of coronavirus (https://www.indy100.com/topic/coronavirus) because they “know each other”.

[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/ScotSecofState/status/1451973178100572166

Isn't it wonderful how the world just opens up when you give the Tories £150,000 donation.

#CORRUPTION

[Glory Lurker]

https://twitter.com/ScotSecofState/status/1451973178100572166

Isn't it wonderful how the world just opens up when you give the Tories £150,000 donation.

#CORRUPTION

There is no democratic case for the union whatsoever. Other arguments are to be had, but this is a field nobody can defend. I'd like to see the yes side hammering Labour and the LibDems on this front. They don't offer any change at all.

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/ScotSecofState/status/1451973178100572166

Isn't it wonderful how the world just opens up when you give the Tories £150,000 donation.




No detail whatsoever - which Scottish businesses are being pushed at India, what are the benefits and what do India get? These junkets chucking whisky and tartan around seem to happen a lot but who gets what?

[Northernhibee]

https://twitter.com/DavidTCDavies/status/1451637904548237324

Questioning (and politely at that) MPs now seen as “abuse”

[Northernhibee]

More than one MP now (guess which party) claiming to have been abused when the tweet that has been quoted is anything but, but instead them being held to account for their voting record and/or actions.

Considering this debate has been stoked with the murder of an MP, it’s sick.

[Stairway 2 7]

I notice the uk government is raising the living wage to 9.50. The real living wage foundation recommended wage 9.50 already. I wonder if they will raise it, would seem daft to have companies advertising they are a real living wage employer if its the same

[lord bunberry]

I notice the uk government is raising the living wage to 9.50. The real living wage foundation recommended wage 9.50 already. I wonder if they will raise it, would seem daft to have companies advertising they are a real living wage employer if its the same
Is that the same thing as the minimum wage?

[Moulin Yarns]

I notice the uk government is raising the living wage to 9.50. The real living wage foundation recommended wage 9.50 already. I wonder if they will raise it, would seem daft to have companies advertising they are a real living wage employer if its the same

In Scotland that applied from April this year. They are just trying to catch up.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is that the same thing as the minimum wage?

Sort of, it's the min wage for 23+ year olds I think. Obviously under 23s don't get to live. :rolleyes:

Having said that, even if just for 23+, it's amazing when the Tories actually do something right for once.

[Stairway 2 7]

In Scotland that applied from April this year. They are just trying to catch up.

No the living wage for over 23s in Scotland is the same in England 8.91 it's rising in the budget to 9.50.

The Real living wage is a recommended wage from a charity foundation that they say people need to live. They say its 9.50 and 10.80 in London

These numbers are now the same, I've never seen that before. Although the real living wage haven't increased there recommendation in about a year

[Moulin Yarns]

No the living wage for over 23s in Scotland is the same in England 8.91 it's rising in the budget to 9.50.

The Real living wage is a recommended wage from a charity foundation that they say people need to live. They say its 9.50 and 10.80 in London

These numbers are now the same, I've never seen that before. Although the real living wage haven't increased there recommendation in about a year

Apologies, it was the real living wage I looked at. Teach me for being too left leaning 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

Apologies, it was the real living wage I looked at. Teach me for being too left leaning 😉

I think it's deliberately confusing. I hope the real living wage foundation counter with a higher number now.

And the tories doing 1 good policy is like a delicious piece of sweetcorn in a massive turn, which is actually what you will also find right now in most of England's beaches and rivers

[lord bunberry]

Sort of, it's the min wage for 23+ year olds I think. Obviously under 23s don't get to live. :rolleyes:

Having said that, even if just for 23+, it's amazing when the Tories actually do something right for once.
Cheers.

[Killiehibbie]

Is that the same thing as the minimum wage?

Living wage is what used to be known as minimum wage until the government decided to try and confuse people. The real living wage is higher than this

[Ozyhibby]

Living wage is what used to be known as minimum wage until the government decided to try and confuse people. The real living wage is higher than this

Yip. Unless there is a legal requirement to pay it then it doesn’t really matter what level they set it at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Yip. Unless there is a legal requirement to pay it then it doesn’t really matter what level they set it at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No there is a legal requirement to pay the living wage which is going up to 9.50. There isn't for the real living wage although that's 9.50 so that is the legal minimum anyway. Thousands of companies try to pay the real living wage so hopefully they raise it

[Killiehibbie]

Yip. Unless there is a legal requirement to pay it then it doesn’t really matter what level they set it at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have companies who sign up to be Real Living Wage employers, Diageo and GSK are two. They ensure everybody on their sites gets paid the RLW. Better if the just employed all the staff instead of contracting out jobs. Even worse is the RLW usually gets raised in November each year and the likes of WH Malcolm get away with raising it the following April because they get away with not implementing it for 6 months, that makes it half a RLW in my book

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1452641548085121032?s=21

Listen to the end…



… [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[silverhibee]

https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1452641548085121032?s=21

Listen to the end…



… [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He’s a f***ing idiot.

[Bostonhibby]

All perfectly in order I'm sure.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211027/5f397aae64cd0214e64d69c7a09e17ff.jpg

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

All perfectly in order I'm sure.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211027/5f397aae64cd0214e64d69c7a09e17ff.jpg


Careful now. If Owen finds out you've been abusing him on social media you'll likely be added to the list of people who caused his wife's death.

[Bostonhibby]

Careful now. If Owen finds out you've been abusing him on social media you'll likely be added to the list of people who caused his wife's death.All you've got to do to avoid this sort of stuff is live off the day jobs very generous package and allowances..........

Oh, and if you want clean hands over the awarding of contracts argue for a free, open and audited tendering process rather than expecting everyone to believe awarding contracts of this size arbitrarily to a business that pays an mp is okay. It's just beyond the pale but is a feature of Nasty Party Britain.

There were apparently existing suppliers who would have loved the chance to compete and deliver but this doesn't seem to have been the preferred option here.

Probably the same rigourous process that seen Matt Hancock's pub landlord win a contract as well.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

All you've got to do to avoid this sort of stuff is live off the day jobs very generous package and allowances..........

Oh, and if you want clean hands over the awarding of contracts argue for a free, open and audited tendering process rather than expecting everyone to believe awarding contracts of this size arbitrarily to a business that pays an mp is okay. It's just beyond the pale but is a feature of Nasty Party Britain.

There were apparently existing suppliers who would have loved the chance to compete and deliver but this doesn't seem to have been the preferred option here.

Probably the same rigourous process that seen Matt Hancock's pub landlord win a contract as well.


The shock is not that Paterson, Hancock and most/all of the rest of them are corrupt, as that's been obvious for a good while to everyone who's been paying attention, but that someone's at last being called out for it! Only now needs 10% of his constituents to call for his head and he's in proper trouble. Will they though? Why would they, when he's such a staunch Brexiter and Brexit's going so well? :dunno:

[Bostonhibby]

The shock is not that Paterson, Hancock and most/all of the rest of them are corrupt, as that's been obvious for a good while to everyone who's been paying attention, but that someone's at last being called out for it! Only now needs 10% of his constituents to call for his head and he's in proper trouble. Will they though? Why would they, when he's such a staunch Brexiter and Brexit's going so well? :dunno:It's about how far many of the supporters of this sort of person, and the wider party are prepared to bend over / doff their caps deferentially, and there's a way to go I fear.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

Tories closing ranks for one of their own. The UK parliament is corrupt.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1455865781628112897

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59143727

[Bostonhibby]

Tories closing ranks for one of their own. The UK parliament is corrupt.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1455865781628112897

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59143727Yep, dont like how the rules caught one out, so change the rules, imagine there will be quite a few of those campaigning for change who have their snouts in similar troughs and don't fancy getting caught out.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Tories closing ranks for one of their own. The UK parliament is corrupt.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1455865781628112897

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59143727

It’s absolutely astonishing. 3pm the vote is I believe. This Paterson character must have some dirt on someone…

[Ozyhibby]

Guaranteed that Douglas Ross and the rest of the Scottish Tories vote for more corruption. There are people in Scotland who think this is good for Scotland and we can’t do any better.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lord bunberry]

Angela Rayner made a good point today. When the Tory MP got away with any punishment for sexual harassment on a technicality, tories claimed there’s nothing they could do as they couldn’t change the rules. Now when one of their own is about to face the music they suddenly can change the rules.

[Hibrandenburg]

Guaranteed that Douglas Ross and the rest of the Scottish Tories vote for more corruption. There are people in Scotland who think this is good for Scotland and we can’t do any better.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's as simple as that, a vote for or against corruption.

[Northernhibee]

Angela Rayner made a good point today. When the Tory MP got away with any punishment for sexual harassment on a technicality, tories claimed there’s nothing they could do as they couldn’t change the rules. Now when one of their own is about to face the music they suddenly can change the rules.

She was absolutely brilliant at PMQs today. If it was a boxing match it'd have been a referee stoppage in round one.

[Kato]

Angela Rayner made a good point today. When the Tory MP got away with any punishment for sexual harassment on a technicality, tories claimed there’s nothing they could do as they couldn’t change the rules. Now when one of their own is about to face the music they suddenly can change the rules.This gaslighting Govt in a nutshell.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

Mogg: "The suicide of his wife is a greater punishment any that a House of Commons committee could inflict".

Utterly despicable from Rees-Mogg.

[grunt]

Yep, dont like how the rules caught one out, so change the rules, imagine there will be quite a few of those campaigning for change who have their snouts in similar troughs and don't fancy getting caught out.
:agree:

Out of the 59 backbench Conservative MPs who have signed up to the motion scrapping the Standards Committee, nearly a quarter (14) have broken the rules themselves.

[Ozyhibby]

Amendment carried. Paid advocacy is no longer a banned practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

Amendment carried. Paid advocacy is no longer a banned practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

250 corrupt Tories. Who knew.

[ronaldo7]

Amendment carried. Paid advocacy is no longer a banned practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

250 corrupt Tories. Who knew.

[Ozyhibby]

Will be interesting to see if Labour take part in the new committee. SNP have already said they won’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Orwellian craziness. Terrible.

[Northernhibee]

Angela Rayner shouldn't have apologised for calling the **** ****. They're lower than ****.

[JimBHibees]

250 corrupt Tories. Who knew.

Corruption in plain sight. Shameful and shameless in equal measure

[JimBHibees]

Mogg: "The suicide of his wife is a greater punishment any that a House of Commons committee could inflict".

Utterly despicable from Rees-Mogg.

Ridiculous thing to say by that wannabe Dickensian charlatan

[Hibrandenburg]

Anyone who thought that this Tory Government might be held to account for its sleaze and corruption is going to be very disappointed. They've just voted to change the rules on parliamentary conduct to save themselves. Any conduct committee will now be chaired by a tory with a majority of tory members on the committee. They've just made themselves judge and jury of parliamentary conduct.

[Northernhibee]

Anyone who thought that this Tory Government might be held to account for its sleaze and corruption is going to be very disappointed. They've just voted to change the rules on parliamentary conduct to save themselves. Any conduct committee will now be chaired by a tory with a majority of tory members on the committee. They've just made themselves judge and jury of parliamentary conduct.

What worries me is that if an MP from another party finds themselves in front of them. I suspect it won't take much.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/03a59bfab938fa8c4ae1328cd738acb4.jpg

The pride of Scottish Unionism.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

Mundell, Duguid, Bowie, and Lamont, all voted for the corruption to continue. They maybe want a bit of Owen Patterson's £9,000 a month lobbying cash. #corrupttory

[Kato]

Opposition MP's should troll the hell out if this.

Enter the House carrying those big "Golf Sale" signs, sandwhich boards with "DFS SOFA DISCOUNTS" on them and hand out flyers for the local Pizza Hut. It's legal now so what's to stop them?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[neil7908]

Even for the Tories this is something else. They've been in power for what, 11 years now? And only now do they decide they aren't happy with the Parliamentary standards process. Its a bit like with Dacre leading OFCOM. If you don't like the result, just change the goal posts.

The really scary thing is the press and English public don't give a toss. They won't lose a single vote over this.

[Kato]

Even for the Tories this is something else. They've been in power for what, 11 years now? And only now do they decide they aren't happy with the Parliamentary standards process. Its a bit like with Dacre leading OFCOM. If you don't like the result, just change the goal posts.

The really scary thing is the press and English public don't give a toss. They won't lose a single vote over this.They've set fire to the goalposts.

Lucky we don't have that Corbyn bloke though, imagine the state of the country with him. [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

They've set fire to the goalposts.

Lucky we don't have that Corbyn bloke though, imagine the state of the country with him. [emoji848]


I don't think the Government would have stooped to this if Paterson had just been a regular Tory MP. Reckon it's the fact that he's a staunch Brexiter - 'one of us' - that's been the clincher. Beyond pitiful.

[Northernhibee]

Can we change the thread title to “openly corrupt *******s”?

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/252973059_4573307339392728_5272767552059915615_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=cU3osfACL0QAX9M2A7G&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=1efa7f52b1a5cb9c6ee5f33cb14672e4&oe=618872EA


you really do have to laugh

[Northernhibee]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/252973059_4573307339392728_5272767552059915615_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=cU3osfACL0QAX9M2A7G&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=1efa7f52b1a5cb9c6ee5f33cb14672e4&oe=618872EA


you really do have to laugh
If I ever commit a crime and end up in court, can I sit on the jury with my best mates too?

[cabbageandribs1875]

If I ever commit a crime and end up in court, can I sit on the jury with my best mates too?



:agree: it's appalling the depths at which british politics has now sunk, a new low...and most likely more to come

[Crunchie]

Angela Rayner shouldn't have apologised for calling the **** ****. They're lower than ****.
Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.

[Smartie]

:agree: it's appalling the depths at which british politics has now sunk, a new low...and most likely more to come

You keep waiting for the moment when the public say "that's quite enough" but it never comes.

I'm developing a special loathing for the subservient morons down South who will ensure that we continue down the slippery slope that goes with having a government who can act with impunity.

[hibsbollah]

Opposition MP's should troll the hell out if this.

Enter the House carrying those big "Golf Sale" signs, sandwhich boards with "DFS SOFA DISCOUNTS" on them and hand out flyers for the local Pizza Hut. It's legal now so what's to stop them?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Starmer actually sounds angry about something. ‘Let’s call this what it is. Corruption’ he says. Good for him, more of it please.

[Bostonhibby]

I nearly said shameless, but they're beyond that. In the circles they move in they are actually pretty smug and maybe even proud about what they can do and what large slices of the country have allowed them to do.

Two fingers to people who live on the wage that goes with their job and haven't got their snouts in the lobbying trough.

What next? Subversion of the pandemic enquiry and any investigation into the awarding of contracts would be my guess.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.

Or maybe you should be asking yourself why you're not angrier.

[Northernhibee]

Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.

I’ll be very open, I have as much disdain for the gullible fools who are prepared to defend this lot as anyone else.

Your ‘opinion’ is literally of no interest to me, neither is your warped perception of me.

[Kato]

Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.
Yeah. Let's keep calm and pliant, people. It's just Tories doing what they do. What exactly did you expect?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Hiber-nation]

Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.

You a fan of corruption aye?

[Northernhibee]

It’s simply not possible to be a Hibby and a Tory. We were founded off the back of immigration to our fine city, from working class backgrounds. We were one of the first teams to play a proud part in intercontinental competition. We are an inclusive club who have welcomed players of all skin colours. We give a helping hand up to those in our community who are less fortunate and we thank our NHS. This is not the sort of thing the Conservative party stand for.

I’m sure we have Tories in the crowd who think it’s jolly good fun to go to the football for the day and may even join in with the songs, but if they really did “know their history” they’d never be a Tory in the first place.

[weecounty hibby]

Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.

To be honest if you're not angry about what happened today then you are accepting of elected politicians being paid to potentially ignore their constituents needs for the benefit of the companies who are paying them. That is not democracy in any way. I would suggest that anyone who continually sticks up for Tories is the one who is embarrassing

[Kato]

It’s simply not possible to be a Hibby and a Tory. We were founded off the back of immigration to our fine city, from working class backgrounds. We were one of the first teams to play a proud part in intercontinental competition. We are an inclusive club who have welcomed players of all skin colours. We give a helping hand up to those in our community who are less fortunate and we thank our NHS. This is not the sort of thing the Conservative party stand for.

I’m sure we have Tories in the crowd who think it’s jolly good fun to go to the football for the day and may even join in with the songs, but if they really did “know their history” they’d never be a Tory in the first place.40 years of Tory monetary policy. The result of which is the siphoning upwards of cash. 1% earn/own 20% of the wealth, 10% earn/own 53% of the wealth.

No one can think they have the interests of the remaining 90% in mind.



Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

I think this is a bit like the 'sectarianism' misnomer that exists in Scotland.

Referring to this as 'sleaze' is wrong. It's corruption and state sanctioned corruption at that.

[Kato]

I think this is a bit like the 'sectarianism' misnomer that exists in Scotland.

Referring to this as 'sleaze' is wrong. It's corruption and state sanctioned corruption at that.

Corruption, confidence trick, criminal act, deceit, thievery, skimming, pauchle, fraud, at the fiddle, nicking, bribery: all apt and true, not just today but for decades.

"Sleaze" should be reserved for things like getting caught snorting posh out of a rent-boy/prostitutes belly button, which is good old fashioned harmless stuff compared to the current rapaciousness.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

It’s simply not possible to be a Hibby and a Tory. We were founded off the back of immigration to our fine city, from working class backgrounds. We were one of the first teams to play a proud part in intercontinental competition. We are an inclusive club who have welcomed players of all skin colours. We give a helping hand up to those in our community who are less fortunate and we thank our NHS. This is not the sort of thing the Conservative party stand for.

I’m sure we have Tories in the crowd who think it’s jolly good fun to go to the football for the day and may even join in with the songs, but if they really did “know their history” they’d never be a Tory in the first place.


I've never voted Tory in my life nor contemplated it. But we don't get to assert who is and isn't allowed to be a Hibs fan from a political perspective, still less with the logic you are applying. That is in itself exclusive rather than inclusive.

The Tory party is currently at one of its lowest ebbs in terms of both the quality of its representatives and also I would argue its political proximity to historical conservatism. About as far away from 'One Nation' toryism as it is possible to be. In fact you can make a credible argument to say that it has effectively been hijacked by amoral actors of dubious intent with even more dubious domestic and foreign backers. Today's actions are shallow, short-termist, anti-democratic, backward looking and ultimately probably self-defeating. Certainly they effectively sanction the corrupt practices of the MP concerned which is reckless in the extreme. In fact they are a perfect metaphor for Boris Johnson's government. However we don't get to pick and choose who are more or less valid Hibernian supporters. We don't get to decide that because someone isn't of Irish origins, or is too wealthy or votes for a particular political party that they are somehow not 'true' Hibernian supporters.

[Northernhibee]

I've never voted Tory in my life nor contemplated it. But we don't get to assert who is and isn't allowed to be a Hibs fan from a political perspective, still less with the logic you are applying. That is in itself exclusive rather than inclusive.

The Tory party is currently at one of its lowest ebbs in terms of both the quality of its representatives and also I would argue its political proximity to historical conservatism. About as far away from 'One Nation' toryism as it is possible to be. In fact you can make a credible argument to say that it has effectively been hijacked by amoral actors of dubious intent with even more dubious domestic and foreign backers. Today's actions are shallow, short-termist, anti-democratic, backward looking and ultimately probably self-defeating. Certainly they effectively sanction the corrupt practices of the MP concerned which is reckless in the extreme. In fact they are a perfect metaphor for Boris Johnson's government. However we don't get to pick and choose who are more or less valid Hibernian supporters. We don't get to decide that because someone isn't of Irish origins, or is too wealthy or votes for a particular political party that they are somehow not 'true' Hibernian supporters.

You cannot extol the virtues of the Conservative party whilst also believing in the values of Hibernian Football Club. The two are mutually exclusive.

[weecounty hibby]

I think this is a bit like the 'sectarianism' misnomer that exists in Scotland.

Referring to this as 'sleaze' is wrong. It's corruption and state sanctioned corruption at that.

Correct. Sleaze was Cecil Parkinson, Profumo, Mellor, Archer etc. This is plain old corruption on a national level accepted by the ruling party and largely ignored by their blind followers

[Northernhibee]

Question - we have always took a stand against far right groups like the EDL, BNP, Football Lads Alliance and more. We agree that their mix of racism, criminality and more makes them not welcome.

What now is the fundamental difference between groups like that and what we’ve been seeing in the last few years?

[One Day Soon]

You cannot extol the virtues of the Conservative party whilst also believing in the values of Hibernian Football Club. The two are mutually exclusive.


I hate to break it to you but some of the the wealthiest people who have made profound commitments to supporting and protecting our club have been or are Conservative Party voters/supporters.

[Smartie]

Question - we have always took a stand against far right groups like the EDL, BNP, Football Lads Alliance and more. We agree that their mix of racism, criminality and more makes them not welcome.

What now is the fundamental difference between groups like that and what we’ve been seeing in the last few years?

This Conservative party is a far right English nationalist party.

Corrupt as **** and morally bankrupt.

I’d be interested in what actual “conservatives” make of it all.

[cabbageandribs1875]

the Brave Bakers Dozen that voted against Government Corruption

Aaron Bell
Jackie Doyle-Price
Richard Fuller
Kate Griffiths
Mark Harper
Simon Hoare
Kevin Hollinrake
Nigel Mills
Jill Mortimer
Holly Humby-Croft
Matthew Offord
John Stevenson
William Wragg

[BroxburnHibee]

They're not even trying to hide it now. They're getting rich quick and know they're untouchable.

I despair that Scottish voters STILL think we can't do a better job on our own

[Hibrandenburg]

To be honest if you're not angry about what happened today then you are accepting of elected politicians being paid to potentially ignore their constituents needs for the benefit of the companies who are paying them. That is not democracy in any way. I would suggest that anyone who continually sticks up for Tories is the one who is embarrassing

Good post@

[Kato]

I've never voted Tory in my life nor contemplated it. But we don't get to assert who is and isn't allowed to be a Hibs fan from a political perspective, still less with the logic you are applying. That is in itself exclusive rather than inclusive.

The Tory party is currently at one of its lowest ebbs in terms of both the quality of its representatives and also I would argue its political proximity to historical conservatism. About as far away from 'One Nation' toryism as it is possible to be. In fact you can make a credible argument to say that it has effectively been hijacked by amoral actors of dubious intent with even more dubious domestic and foreign backers. Today's actions are shallow, short-termist, anti-democratic, backward looking and ultimately probably self-defeating. Certainly they effectively sanction the corrupt practices of the MP concerned which is reckless in the extreme. In fact they are a perfect metaphor for Boris Johnson's government. However we don't get to pick and choose who are more or less valid Hibernian supporters. We don't get to decide that because someone isn't of Irish origins, or is too wealthy or votes for a particular political party that they are somehow not 'true' Hibernian supporters.When was the last earnest "One Nation" Tory Govt?

Heath? Inept

MacMillan? Hand was forced due to the debt owed to the working classes for WW2.

Now the threat of communism has gone its full on Dickensian kleptocracy, made legal.

There is zero sign of One Nation toryism with the current lot though they may trot the phrase out to gaslight the populace every now and then. If there are any they are very, very quiet or kept on the shortest of leashes.

A true Tory govt of that hue would be a boon to this countr, in more ways than one. As an idea it just doesn't exist and there is no one in that party who could even vocalise how it would work nor would they have the means to put it into practice if they could. It's not even Thatcherite, they are just gangsters.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Crunchie]

Yeah. Let's keep calm and pliant, people. It's just Tories doing what they do. What exactly did you expect?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
A bit of reasoned debate which is supposed to happen in a democracy wouldn't go amiss.
It would appear the left have abandoned any notion of a reasoned debate though and have resorted to name calling. It's akin to how the nazi's came to power in Germany, shut down any opinion other than your own. I repeat it's embarrassing, the sooner they do away with anonymity on the net the better, we'd soon see the majority of the shouty bully boys disappear overnight.

[lapsedhibee]

It would appear the left have abandoned any notion of a reasoned debate though and have resorted to name calling. It's akin to how the nazi's came to power in Germany,

Riiiiiight.

[Crunchie]

To be honest if you're not angry about what happened today then you are accepting of elected politicians being paid to potentially ignore their constituents needs for the benefit of the companies who are paying them. That is not democracy in any way. I would suggest that anyone who continually sticks up for Tories is the one who is embarrassing
I'm not sticking up for anyone, his angry posts are embarrassing and insulting to any reasoned debate. If his views were to the right you'd be on him like a pack of wolves like you tend to do on here, how he gets away with the constant abuse directed at tories and those who vote tory is beyond me.

[Crunchie]

Question - we have always took a stand against far right groups like the EDL, BNP, Football Lads Alliance and more. We agree that their mix of racism, criminality and more makes them not welcome.

What now is the fundamental difference between groups like that and what we’ve been seeing in the last few years?
What's the difference between your hate speech and theirs?

[lapsedhibee]

What's the difference between your hate speech and theirs?

Accusing corrupt people of being corrupt is hate speech and should be closed down :faf:

[Northernhibee]

What's the difference between your hate speech and theirs?

😂😂😂😂😂

[Crunchie]

Accusing corrupt people of being corrupt is hate speech and should be closed down :faf:
Dearie me :rolleyes:

[Kato]

constant abuse directed at tories and those who vote tory

Funny word isn't. Tory. I used to think it's etymology lay in the word Conservative i.e. a party that is conservatory, a further stretch being that they were "conservatory of the status quo". Wrong. The word doesn't mean that at all it's root is an Irish Gaelic word "tóraidhe", in Ireland today it's tóraí, meaning "outlaw", "robber".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory
Weird that at the moment they are seeking to

..operate outwith the law...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-human-rights-act-b1939870.html

..rob people of their democratic vote by using a tactic which is an element of “state capture”.

State capture is used by governments who seek to sweep away government procedures (stuff like laws, n'that) to create an avenue in which, legally, votes in parliament maybe purchased via routes such as: individuals giving them money, previous donors giving them money, state-backed companies giving them money, private individuals giving them money and russian dudes, who already coughed up enough money to put them where they are, giving them money again.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-owen-paterson-parliament-tory-b1950554.html

The move was denounced by anti-corruption academics who described it as consistent with the kind of “state capture” used by governments to undermine democratic checks and balances on their activities.


In effect suffrage has been privatised - theoretically, of course there is a reasoned debate to be had there.

As some Labour bloke pointed out it's looking to do away with "paid Advocacy Law".

Since 1695, there have been rules on paid advocacy. A motion passed on 2 May 1695 said that

“the offer of money or other advantage to any Member of Parliament for the promoting of any matter whatsoever…in Parliament, is a high crime and misdemeanour”.

A "high crime and misdemeanour." Again just words, there's probably some Harrison Ford fillum with that name, a reasonably common phrase. It does have a legal root though as is shown in English Law:

Since 1386, the English parliament had used the term “high crimes and misdemeanors” to describe one of the grounds to impeach officials of the crown. Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, holding up a large "Golf Sale" sign in the house, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament, ” etc


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors

Looking at that list carefully shows human nature doesn't change much, maybe an unfair term but I'm up for reasoned debate on that one. I dislike the double down.

We have lots of promises to print money for "the North" but not much to show for it, feels all a bit "world cup stars and £50million new stand". Big plans. Meanwhile there is a steady drip of cronyism in some sort of dystopian 90's revival, feat. Gove, among other high Torys, jitterbugging around to a Hi-NRG cover version of "Let's Go Round Again", ironically by Scotland's own Average White Band - "average white band" being a subtle pun on the groups' caucasian line-up and a slang term for a line of cocaine. High Torys or high Tóraís?

There's a reasoned debate to have do we have High Torys, Medium Torys or Low Torys in the cabinet this time around?

The version of the Conservative Party which I find "least bad" is the version from the mid late 1950's-early 1960's, they "we've never had it so good" ones who sought to serve "One Nation". Under a grave set of situations post WW2 they clung to the job of rebuilding the country sensibly, investing in a social contract, seeing businesses are able to trade easily but fairly and keeping a balance of payments policy. They also had a genuine resolve to see the it through.

Lots of different Tories and tóraís, those whacky 17 century MPs must have a right laugh appropriating the insult, reminds me that some Torys where brassy enough to wear "****" badges at their recent annual thumbs-up-athon. I find that funny to tell the truth. I don't find high crimes and misdemeanours funny though.

[cabbageandribs1875]

what a brass neck

Parliament’s chief sleaze inquisitor must quit, says Owen Paterson (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/owen-paterson-calls-on-parliament-s-chief-sleaze-inquisitor-to-quit/ar-AAQi6vK)

Speaking to The Telegraph after the vote, Mr Paterson suggested the commissioner and members of the standards committee should consider their positions.
“Sadly they have not done a good job and come up with a rotten report which is full of inaccuracies. As far as I’m concerned, they all have to go,” Mr Paterson said.


good piece in the Independent The Tories’ actions today were so foul, the stench might never clear | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/owen-paterson-lobbying-tory-sleaze-boris-johnson-b1950879.html?fbclid=IwAR1xgKK9GSdUc6sN0uXkPsO2v3l ea1qnGb0Ru8gz6KFJilDX2Xl2TRTqtnE)

The shame is on those who compelled them to do what they did. It is barely a fortnight since a member of parliament was killed. The motivations of the person who did it cannot be speculated upon, for legal reasons.

And here they were, hundreds of them, being compelled to do something they knew to be appalling, so certain to outrage so many people who had voted for them. To soil themselves in such a way that they might never again be clean.



my first thought on hearing the vote result was of the Tory MP murdered just weeks ago, this Westminster Government truly is appallingly corrupt :agree:

[hibsbollah]

what a brass neck

Parliament’s chief sleaze inquisitor must quit, says Owen Paterson (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/owen-paterson-calls-on-parliament-s-chief-sleaze-inquisitor-to-quit/ar-AAQi6vK)

Speaking to The Telegraph after the vote, Mr Paterson suggested the commissioner and members of the standards committee should consider their positions.
“Sadly they have not done a good job and come up with a rotten report which is full of inaccuracies. As far as I’m concerned, they all have to go,” Mr Paterson said.


good piece in the Independent The Tories’ actions today were so foul, the stench might never clear | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/owen-paterson-lobbying-tory-sleaze-boris-johnson-b1950879.html?fbclid=IwAR1xgKK9GSdUc6sN0uXkPsO2v3l ea1qnGb0Ru8gz6KFJilDX2Xl2TRTqtnE)

The shame is on those who compelled them to do what they did. It is barely a fortnight since a member of parliament was killed. The motivations of the person who did it cannot be speculated upon, for legal reasons.

And here they were, hundreds of them, being compelled to do something they knew to be appalling, so certain to outrage so many people who had voted for them. To soil themselves in such a way that they might never again be clean.



my first thought on hearing the vote result was of the Tory MP murdered just weeks ago, this Westminster Government truly is appallingly corrupt :agree:

The Telegraph totally supine, the story says ‘Paterson calls for Commission to be broken up’, in a tiny box at the bottom of their front page, as if that is the main story :faf: Strangely, what was Boris doing last night after private jetting back from COP? Having a private dinner with Charles Moore, veteran Telegraph columnist.

[lapsedhibee]

what a brass neck

Parliament’s chief sleaze inquisitor must quit, says Owen Paterson (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/owen-paterson-calls-on-parliament-s-chief-sleaze-inquisitor-to-quit/ar-AAQi6vK)

Astonishing, but not astonishing, that he has presented himself throughout as a victim. And claimed his wife as a victim, which is more disgusting than astonishing.

[Northernhibee]

Astonishing, but not astonishing, that he has presented himself throughout as a victim. And claimed his wife as a victim, which is more disgusting than astonishing.

It sickens me to my stomach that Tories want to portray themselves as victims. They’ve ripped up our trade agreements and freedom of movement to dodge upcoming EU rules on tax dodging and trashed our economy in doing so, they’ve pushed endless amounts of families into foodbank queues that are literally miles long (and sung “I’ve had the time of my life” whilst taking £20 a week away from them), they’ve failed to take the most serious pandemic in living memory seriously and the best part of 200k people are dead, they’ve called Muslims “bank robbers”, gay people “bum boys”, given contracts worth tens of millions to their mates who don’t even have any experience in those fields, they’ve overseen our friends and colleagues from the EU leave this country en masse, they’ve put the GFA under threat, they’ve tried to prorogue Parliament when democracy wasn’t convenient for them, they’ve decimated our NHS, they’ve lied on the side of a bus and everywhere else and now one of their own was caught pocketing a six figure sum they’ve dismantled our democracy and public standards yet again to let them get away scot free.

Then they have the temerity to whine “oh, people hate us”. Decent minded people do absolutely hate them. **** them.

[Jack]

It sickens me to my stomach that Tories want to portray themselves as victims. They’ve ripped up our trade agreements and freedom of movement to dodge upcoming EU rules on tax dodging and trashed our economy in doing so, they’ve pushed endless amounts of families into foodbank queues that are literally miles long (and sung “I’ve had the time of my life” whilst taking £20 a week away from them), they’ve failed to take the most serious pandemic in living memory seriously and the best part of 200k people are dead, they’ve called Muslims “bank robbers”, gay people “bum boys”, given contracts worth tens of millions to their mates who don’t even have any experience in those fields, they’ve overseen our friends and colleagues from the EU leave this country en masse, they’ve put the GFA under threat, they’ve tried to prorogue Parliament when democracy wasn’t convenient for them, they’ve decimated our NHS, they’ve lied on the side of a bus and everywhere else and now one of their own was caught pocketing a six figure sum they’ve dismantled our democracy and public standards yet again to let them get away scot free.

Then they have the temerity to whine “oh, people hate us”. Decent minded people do absolutely hate them. **** them.

Good summary.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211104/1e685e8ea4d990d348bae713745a6a69.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211104/1e685e8ea4d990d348bae713745a6a69.jpg



:tsk tsk: It's all about the fairness of the procedure, and the Standards Commissioner should resign, in light of the commons vote.

[DaveF]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211104/1e685e8ea4d990d348bae713745a6a69.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only surprise is that he was 'just'being paid £500ph.

There is no accountability, a reasonably useless opposition, so it will be yesterday's news soon enough.

I hope not, but I have little faith ...

[heretoday]

It’s simply not possible to be a Hibby and a Tory. We were founded off the back of immigration to our fine city, from working class backgrounds. We were one of the first teams to play a proud part in intercontinental competition. We are an inclusive club who have welcomed players of all skin colours. We give a helping hand up to those in our community who are less fortunate and we thank our NHS. This is not the sort of thing the Conservative party stand for.

I’m sure we have Tories in the crowd who think it’s jolly good fun to go to the football for the day and may even join in with the songs, but if they really did “know their history” they’d never be a Tory in the first place.

Good post, guaranteed to set things off.

Is it OK to be a lily-livered unionist Liberal and a Hibby? I've never voted Conservative!

[grunt]

Are you as angry as this in real life? Wind it in man it's embarrassing.Anyone who is not angry at this, either doesn't understand what is happening or is accepting that the Tories can do whatever the hell they like and it's wrong to stop them. There are principles for behaviour in public life, and if we have a Government that doesn't abide by those principles then we have no effective democracy.

[neil7908]

A bit of reasoned debate which is supposed to happen in a democracy wouldn't go amiss.
It would appear the left have abandoned any notion of a reasoned debate though and have resorted to name calling. It's akin to how the nazi's came to power in Germany, shut down any opinion other than your own. I repeat it's embarrassing, the sooner they do away with anonymity on the net the better, we'd soon see the majority of the shouty bully boys disappear overnight.

Let's get some reasoned debate going then.

I'm genuinely curious - are you comfortable with how the Conservative party have dealt with this issue? If so, I'm honestly interested to understand why? I have my own opinion of course but I honestly want to hear from someone who appears to be from the the other side.

[Bostonhibby]

Good post, guaranteed to set things off.

Is it OK to be a lily-livered unionist Liberal and a Hibby? I've never voted Conservative!Can I just add that I know a couple Scottish Conservative voters who are life long Hibbies, actually decent people who do not live their lives like this reptile Paterson and the current version of the Nasty party do and are not enamoured with it at all.

I last discussed this all with one of them a couple of months back and he is firmly in the independence camp which he wasnt pre the last election and Brexit.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

Let's get some reasoned debate going then.

I'm genuinely curious - are you comfortable with how the Conservative party have dealt with this issue? If so, I'm honestly interested to understand why? I have my own opinion of course but I honestly want to hear from someone who appears to be from the the other side.

I find it fairly incredible that there is another side here.

FWIW - I think the Tories might be in trouble on this matter. It’s hard to see who might support them on this one and the coverage hasn’t been favourable for them (other than in the most obvious places).

[Pretty Boy]

I'm not sticking up for anyone, his angry posts are embarrassing and insulting to any reasoned debate. If his views were to the right you'd be on him like a pack of wolves like you tend to do on here, how he gets away with the constant abuse directed at tories and those who vote tory is beyond me.

What reasoned debate is there to be had with people who continue to defend the indefensible?

I would happily debate political ideology with someone who was right leaning. This govt has been repeatedly found to have acted in ways that are fundamentally corrupt on numerous occasions since assuming power though, yesterday they openly subverted democratic process and parliamentary standards. Yet still people defend them. There is no reasoned debate to be had with someone who doesn't condemn such actions and isn't angry about them. It screams someone who is blinded by either partisan loyalty or the cult of personality. That's not something that is exclusive to the Tories, either now or historically, but in this instance it's a phenomenon that is relevant to them.

The individuals who voted in the way they did yesterday may be part of a political machine but they have a conscience and a mind of their own. 13 MPs on the blue benches were able to defy their party and vote in a way that was honest and honourable, for that if nothing else they have my respect. The rest who slavishly followed the whip are fair game for abuse and anger. As is anyone who tries to defend them.

[neil7908]

I find it fairly incredible that there is another side here.

FWIW - I think the Tories might be in trouble on this matter. It’s hard to see who might support them on this one and the coverage hasn’t been favourable for them (other than in the most obvious places).

RE your second paragraph I wish that was the case but I fear not. I think we have moved into a quite scary place in politics where a huge chunk of the public treat voting like supporting a football team. They chose a side and won't budge, no matter what happens. Trump is the most obvious example in the US where he seems to retain a massive level of support, no matter what he does.

Brexit has created massive fault lines, and it now seems more important on deciding issues than anything else. Another poster commented that the Tories are doing this because Patterson is a high profile Brexit proponent. A lot of his supporters are of course suggesting the opposite - he's been targeted by Remainers for the same reason.

And in terms of the press, its the same as far as I can tell - those backing the Tories are playing it down, the Guardian etc are raging.

[Northernhibee]

And now - before the ink has even dried - here comes the clanging u-turn.

Nobody is fooled.

[BroxburnHibee]

And now - before the ink has even dried - here comes the clanging u-turn.

Nobody is fooled.

It's beyond cynical. It's so easily constructed. I'm assuming he gets off now though.

Edit. Apparently going to be another vote.

[SHODAN]

It's a classic political strategy, one we haven't seen in a while: creating an artificial "compromise". Best example I've seen is thus:
MPs: We're increasing our salaries by 50%
General public: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
MPs: Fine, fine we'll only increase them by 45%
General public: Ah that's ok then

[Eaststand]

It sickens me to my stomach that Tories want to portray themselves as victims. They’ve ripped up our trade agreements and freedom of movement to dodge upcoming EU rules on tax dodging and trashed our economy in doing so, they’ve pushed endless amounts of families into foodbank queues that are literally miles long (and sung “I’ve had the time of my life” whilst taking £20 a week away from them), they’ve failed to take the most serious pandemic in living memory seriously and the best part of 200k people are dead, they’ve called Muslims “bank robbers”, gay people “bum boys”, given contracts worth tens of millions to their mates who don’t even have any experience in those fields, they’ve overseen our friends and colleagues from the EU leave this country en masse, they’ve put the GFA under threat, they’ve tried to prorogue Parliament when democracy wasn’t convenient for them, they’ve decimated our NHS, they’ve lied on the side of a bus and everywhere else and now one of their own was caught pocketing a six figure sum they’ve dismantled our democracy and public standards yet again to let them get away scot free.

Then they have the temerity to whine “oh, people hate us”. Decent minded people do absolutely hate them. **** them.

Well written, and saying it just as it is.

If you ever decide to stand for public office, you'd get my vote 👍

GGTTH

[Ozyhibby]

It's beyond cynical. It's so easily constructed. I'm assuming he gets off now though.

Edit. Apparently going to be another vote.

He’ll have to face a by-election now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

It's a classic political strategy, one we haven't seen in a while: creating an artificial "compromise". Best example I've seen is thus:
MPs: We're increasing our salaries by 50%
General public: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
MPs: Fine, fine we'll only increase them by 45%
General public: Ah that's ok then

Is it a strategy?

Or a symptom of a government whose leader is a dither who flips flops back and forward, changing his mind all over the place?

Whilst I think they are corrupt and you can put much of what they do down to pure malfeasance, I wouldn't underplay the role played by crass incompetence too.

[matty_f]

Is it a strategy?

Or a symptom of a government whose leader is a dither who flips flops back and forward, changing his mind all over the place?

Whilst I think they are corrupt and you can put much of what they do down to pure malfeasance, I wouldn't underplay the role played by crass incompetence too.

I think they know exactly what they’re doing.

They don’t give a flying **** about anyone other than themselves and are quite happy to put up with a bit of flack, a token display of backtracking, and then posting on with what they wanted anyway. And they’ll continue to be happy to do it so long as there’s a majority that will vote for them. They seem absolutely immune to scandal at the moment and over the last few years.

Re being angry about it, everyone should be furious about what happened. I’ma long, long way from being an anarchist but there will be a point where folk wake up and decide that they’re not going to be shat upon anymore.

[degenerated]

A decent list of the outrageous stuff they've done

https://twitter.com/RussellEngland/status/1421474756449247238?t=qQuUtbeIWuF-4LCRRylY3w&s=19

[ronaldo7]

SNP MP.

"There's now a debate on Monday on standards. The Gov't want 'all party talks'. We will only go to them when we return to the status quo of yesterday where breaches of rules are subject to independent investigation and we abide by the recommendations of our Standards Committee"

It shouldn't escape people's attention that Boris Johnson is currently being investigated by the Standards commissioner. Yes. the one they're trying to remove.

[grunt]

Here's a good summary of what was so wrong about yesterday's vote.

https://twitter.com/instituteforgov/status/1456220841558020099?s=20

[1 8 7 5]

What reasoned debate is there to be had with people who continue to defend the indefensible?

I would happily debate political ideology with someone who was right leaning. This govt has been repeatedly found to have acted in ways that are fundamentally corrupt on numerous occasions since assuming power though, yesterday they openly subverted democratic process and parliamentary standards. Yet still people defend them. There is no reasoned debate to be had with someone who doesn't condemn such actions and isn't angry about them. It screams someone who is blinded by either partisan loyalty or the cult of personality. That's not something that is exclusive to the Tories, either now or historically, but in this instance it's a phenomenon that is relevant to them.

The individuals who voted in the way they did yesterday may be part of a political machine but they have a conscience and a mind of their own. 13 MPs on the blue benches were able to defy their party and vote in a way that was honest and honourable, for that if nothing else they have my respect. The rest who slavishly followed the whip are fair game for abuse and anger. As is anyone who tries to defend them.

spot on lad :top marks

[lapsedhibee]

He’ll have to face a by-election now.


Only if he gets suspended for 10 sitting days or more. If "the commons" reaches a compromise punishment between 30 days (his original suspension) and no days - let's say, as a very fair compromise, in everyone's best interests and so that everyone can move on, 9 sitting days, no by-election.

[Bostonhibby]

What reasoned debate is there to be had with people who continue to defend the indefensible?

I would happily debate political ideology with someone who was right leaning. This govt has been repeatedly found to have acted in ways that are fundamentally corrupt on numerous occasions since assuming power though, yesterday they openly subverted democratic process and parliamentary standards. Yet still people defend them. There is no reasoned debate to be had with someone who doesn't condemn such actions and isn't angry about them. It screams someone who is blinded by either partisan loyalty or the cult of personality. That's not something that is exclusive to the Tories, either now or historically, but in this instance it's a phenomenon that is relevant to them.

The individuals who voted in the way they did yesterday may be part of a political machine but they have a conscience and a mind of their own. 13 MPs on the blue benches were able to defy their party and vote in a way that was honest and honourable, for that if nothing else they have my respect. The rest who slavishly followed the whip are fair game for abuse and anger. As is anyone who tries to defend them.Excellent post, shouldn't underestimate the extent to which some loyalists have become entrenched and are incapable of seeing what they voted for or supported might actually result in this sort of behaviour.

I've already overheard a discussion which didn't actually address what the party in power and Paterson in particular have done here, but polarised around Corbyn being much more corrupt and taking money from unions, all of which is a panacea for what theyve actually done and saves dealing with it.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[H18S NX]

It sickens me to my stomach that Tories want to portray themselves as victims. They’ve ripped up our trade agreements and freedom of movement to dodge upcoming EU rules on tax dodging and trashed our economy in doing so, they’ve pushed endless amounts of families into foodbank queues that are literally miles long (and sung “I’ve had the time of my life” whilst taking £20 a week away from them), they’ve failed to take the most serious pandemic in living memory seriously and the best part of 200k people are dead, they’ve called Muslims “bank robbers”, gay people “bum boys”, given contracts worth tens of millions to their mates who don’t even have any experience in those fields, they’ve overseen our friends and colleagues from the EU leave this country en masse, they’ve put the GFA under threat, they’ve tried to prorogue Parliament when democracy wasn’t convenient for them, they’ve decimated our NHS, they’ve lied on the side of a bus and everywhere else and now one of their own was caught pocketing a six figure sum they’ve dismantled our democracy and public standards yet again to let them get away scot free.

Then they have the temerity to whine “oh, people hate us”. Decent minded people do absolutely hate them. **** them....Well said m8.:top marks:aok:

[One Day Soon]

What reasoned debate is there to be had with people who continue to defend the indefensible?

I would happily debate political ideology with someone who was right leaning. This govt has been repeatedly found to have acted in ways that are fundamentally corrupt on numerous occasions since assuming power though, yesterday they openly subverted democratic process and parliamentary standards. Yet still people defend them. There is no reasoned debate to be had with someone who doesn't condemn such actions and isn't angry about them. It screams someone who is blinded by either partisan loyalty or the cult of personality. That's not something that is exclusive to the Tories, either now or historically, but in this instance it's a phenomenon that is relevant to them.

The individuals who voted in the way they did yesterday may be part of a political machine but they have a conscience and a mind of their own. 13 MPs on the blue benches were able to defy their party and vote in a way that was honest and honourable, for that if nothing else they have my respect. The rest who slavishly followed the whip are fair game for abuse and anger. As is anyone who tries to defend them.


Depressingly, we now live in an age where pretty much all politics everywhere is filtered through prisms of both extreme binary choices and cults of personality. Johnson and his Brexiteer/ERG hijackers are one of the more extreme examples.

It is interesting that they have chosen to agree to rerun yesterday's vote. It leaves me wondering exactly what pressure was successful enough to force them to reconsider. Backbenchers? Social Media? Traditional media? MPs email inboxes?

It's instructive though that they thought the previous course of action was a good idea in the first place. That speaks of enormous hubris, really appalling political misjudgement and I suspect a government and party that is now structured much more damagingly around the ego and usually misjudged whim of one man than ever previously.

As soon as Johnson demonstrated that he was prepared to oust the likes of Churchill's grandson Soames as a Conservative MP (along with many others) it looked pretty clear that the post-Brexit ideologues owned Johnson and that convention, custom and practice would all go on the bonfire whenever expedient.

[cabbageandribs1875]

RE your second paragraph I wish that was the case but I fear not. I think we have moved into a quite scary place in politics where a huge chunk of the public treat voting like supporting a football team. They chose a side and won't budge, no matter what happens. Trump is the most obvious example in the US where he seems to retain a massive level of support, no matter what he does.

Brexit has created massive fault lines, and it now seems more important on deciding issues than anything else. Another poster commented that the Tories are doing this because Patterson is a high profile Brexit proponent. A lot of his supporters are of course suggesting the opposite - he's been targeted by Remainers for the same reason.

And in terms of the press, its the same as far as I can tell - those backing the Tories are playing it down, the Guardian etc are raging.


i know some will be quite rightly surprised but amazingly the Daily Mail headlines/articles think the same on this, i wouldn't even dream of reading a Daily Express headline though i doubt they will criticise a Tory government, no matter how blatantly corrupt.

[Glory Lurker]

i know some will be quite rightly surprised but amazingly the Daily Mail headlines/articles think the same on this, i wouldn't even dream of reading a Daily Express headline though i doubt they will criticise a Tory government, no matter how blatantly corrupt.

Only seen the front pages but Express, Telegraph and Sun playing it right down or ignoring.

[heretoday]

Can I just add that I know a couple Scottish Conservative voters who are life long Hibbies, actually decent people who do not live their lives like this reptile Paterson and the current version of the Nasty party do and are not enamoured with it at all.

I last discussed this all with one of them a couple of months back and he is firmly in the independence camp which he wasnt pre the last election and Brexit.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

I can remember two prominent Hibby tories from recent past- Brian Meek and John Gibson. Also Alex Fletcher a Tory MP in Edinburgh.

The thing is this is all social media stuff. When I first went to ER with my dad in 1963 the last thing we expected to be asked among the support was our political leanings!

Now football is mixed in with current affairs.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Only seen the front pages but Express, Telegraph and Sun playing it right down or ignoring.


there's a surprise :greengrin the last one doesn't really count as a newspaper really





anyway, back to paterson, i didn't realise it was him that thought a plan to cut immigration numbers was to instead put OAP's to work picking fruit, below the minimum wage of course, what a repugnant individual he is, i read last night he will do the same again,after he had been saved and before todays news, cocky little runt he is

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://youtu.be/NQwnOS8V0-c

[Smartie]

I prefer to think that political leaning has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting Hibs.

You normally get into football running around a field as a kid thinking you're Steve Archibald, Gordon Smith or Martin Boyle. Any political views tend to be formed and shaped and crystallise much, much later.

Anyone who has formed an affinity with our club shouldn't feel like that has to be severed just because they've formed certain political views.

I think it should be a strength of ours that we accept and tolerate different world views.

But then again, I am a bit liberal.

[BroxburnHibee]

And now he resigns.

Pushed I'd imagine

[cabbageandribs1875]

apparently No 10 didn't tell paterson about the u-turn, he was in a supermarket when he got a call from Lady Keunssberg of the Boris Broadcasting Company.


funny if true

this is true btw

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/253255454_4575995875790541_4587304626226816551_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=m1FADUGhJSUAX_WjIbd&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8ee79c60cf790da04ac6ba9a97f1d4ab&oe=6188B498

[Hibernia&Alba]

I prefer to think that political leaning has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting Hibs.

You normally get into football running around a field as a kid thinking you're Steve Archibald, Gordon Smith or Martin Boyle. Any political views tend to be formed and shaped and crystallise much, much later.

Anyone who has formed an affinity with our club shouldn't feel like that has to be severed just because they've formed certain political views.

I think it should be a strength of ours that we accept and tolerate different world views.

But then again, I am a bit liberal.

:agree:

The only thing we shouldn't tolerate is intolerance. All who are happy to accept others on the same basis should be welcome. We don't want to be like the Old Firm, where fans are expected to hold particular political or religious beliefs, and those who do not conform are not considered real fans. The opinions of other Hibs fans unrelated to football are none of my business. I have no problem with Tories and Brexiteers supporting Hibs, even though my views are very different.

[hibsbollah]

And now he resigns.

Pushed I'd imagine

Resigned for being caught selling influence while pathetically moaning about being ‘bullied’.
Classic Tory.

[Northernhibee]

Always. The. ****ing. Victim.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Always. The. ****ing. Victim.

:agree:

Being picked on for being caught caught taking half a million quid of bribes.

[lapsedhibee]

And now he resigns.


Good.

Government can now fully focus on dismantling the Standards Committee before it's Johnson's turn to be found guilty.

[Jack]

:agree:

Being picked on for being caught caught taking half a million quid of bribes.

Only half a million we know about.

[heretoday]

I prefer to think that political leaning has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting Hibs.

You normally get into football running around a field as a kid thinking you're Steve Archibald, Gordon Smith or Martin Boyle. Any political views tend to be formed and shaped and crystallise much, much later.

Anyone who has formed an affinity with our club shouldn't feel like that has to be severed just because they've formed certain political views.

I think it should be a strength of ours that we accept and tolerate different world views.

But then again, I am a bit liberal.

I guess I am too but in reality I'm just trying to keep healthy and solvent, in common with the majority of the Hibs fans I suspect. I don't mind a bit of banter about politics but I follow football to get away from it ideally.

[lapsedhibee]

Always. The. ****ing. Victim.

His resignation letter is completely cringeworthy. In a better state the police would be after him.

[cabbageandribs1875]

oh dear

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/251095488_4576872302369565_7694539173862169969_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=iHlpTQTUNk0AX_cfgdM&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=7272ad4bd225fb0d98387aecf1b7534f&oe=61894B20

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1456238977497849858?t=Q931QkmqRVyK01taS0-1Fw&s=19

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Crunchie]

Let's get some reasoned debate going then.

I'm genuinely curious - are you comfortable with how the Conservative party have dealt with this issue? If so, I'm honestly interested to understand why? I have my own opinion of course but I honestly want to hear from someone who appears to be from the the other side.
I wasn't comfortable with it no, but it didn't want to make me spit out bile and abuse on a forum, mind you he does it on a daily basis against Conservative MP'S and voters and gets away with it.

I could give you a decent discussion in person as to my reason for voting Conservative, but I'll not be putting it down here again.
I've voted Labour, SNP and now Conservative during my lifetime all for various reasons, not ONCE agreeing with every policy/decision they had/made when they were in power.

No sensible person could ever agree 100% with every policy their party has......oh wait a minute.

[blackpoolhibs]

I wasn't comfortable with it no, but it didn't want to make me spit out bile and abuse on a forum, mind you he does it on a daily basis against Conservative MP'S and voters and gets away with it.

I could give you a decent discussion in person as to my reason for voting Conservative, but I'll not be putting it down here again.
I've voted Labour, SNP and now Conservative during my lifetime all for various reasons, not ONCE agreeing with every policy/decision they had/made when they were in power.

No sensible person could ever agree 100% with every policy their party has......oh wait a minute.

I like you have voted for various party's during my life, but this current government are by far the most corrupt, and they dont even try and hide it.

Calling them out at every point seems ok to me, even for those who won't ever vote for them.

[stokesmessiah]

I wasn't comfortable with it no, but it didn't want to make me spit out bile and abuse on a forum, mind you he does it on a daily basis against Conservative MP'S and voters and gets away with it.

I could give you a decent discussion in person as to my reason for voting Conservative, but I'll not be putting it down here again.
I've voted Labour, SNP and now Conservative during my lifetime all for various reasons, not ONCE agreeing with every policy/decision they had/made when they were in power.

No sensible person could ever agree 100% with every policy their party has......oh wait a minute.

I don’t think any sensible person would agree with every policy, I am an SNP supporter and I know I don’t agree with everything they put forward. However, and this is what I can’t wrap my head around, I agree (in general) with the ideology behind what the SNP stand for and think their values are reasonably aligned to mine. What I can’t understand is how any sensible person can vote Labour, SNP and Conservative in their lifetime when their values and ideologies come from such different places.

[Northernhibee]

the sooner they do away with anonymity on the net the better.

Is Crunchie your first or last name?

[JimBHibees]

oh dear

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/251095488_4576872302369565_7694539173862169969_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=iHlpTQTUNk0AX_cfgdM&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=7272ad4bd225fb0d98387aecf1b7534f&oe=61894B20

More authoritarian by the day. Don't think democracy in the UK has been in such peril as now imo

[Keith_M]

Is Crunchie your first or last name?


He's a Rapper and that's his full name.


"Just cos I's a Tory you don''t get to dis me,
Hey Mother F****** I is a real Hi-bee!"

...drops mic'

[tmb1875]

Anybody who props up that Tory government is a ****bag. Never has been acceptable to vote conservative and it never will be. There are no valid reasons. How someone can think it’s ok to have starving and homeless children in this country in 2021 while the rich get richer is a disgrace. Tories and there supporters deserve every bit of abuse they get. Shame on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BroxburnHibee]

36 u-turns in 23 months.

[Moulin Yarns]

Anybody who props up that Tory government is a ****bag. Never has been acceptable to vote conservative and it never will be. There are no valid reasons. How someone can think it’s ok to have starving and homeless children in this country in 2021 while the rich get richer is a disgrace. Tories and there supporters deserve every bit of abuse they get. Shame on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But but, they gave us foodbanks and said it was a good thing. 😉

[One Day Soon]

If you are interested in a blow by blow explanation of what happened here and the political implications then the lengthy account below is excellent. From a briefing service I subscribe to. Posted in two parts.


REMEMBER, REMEMBER … British politics is in disrepute this morning after a dire week in Westminster that saw a Conservative MP’s political career destroyed in a sleaze scandal, the prime minister humiliated in a tawdry attempt to get him off the hook, and a Labour MP handed a suspended sentence for threatening a woman with acid. It leaves the government and opposition facing as many as four by-elections in the next few months, where voters could effectively be taking part in referendums on politicians’ sleaze or criminality — and Downing Street’s faltering commitment to standards in public life. As Owen Paterson quits parliament in disgrace, the recriminations are well underway following a week that threatens lasting damage to No. 10’s reputation. Boris Johnson, Chief Whip Mark Spencer, Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Downing Street political team, Paterson and his Tory MP friends are all facing fireworks on Guy Fawkes Night.


Are the public watching? You better believe it. A YouGov poll for the Times — with the fieldwork done after the Paterson vote, on Wednesday evening and Thursday — sees the Tory lead shrink by 5 points to just 1. In full: CON 36 (-3) … LAB 35 (+2) … LIB DEM 8 (no change) GREEN 9 (-1) REF U.K. 5 (+2). H/t Patrick Maguire. That’s a lot of political capital spent on trying and failing to save a rule-breaking Tory MP from facing the consequences of his actions.


Regrets, they have a few: As the dust settles, it is clear that multiple senior members of the government have been guilty of remarkable lapses in judgment over the Paterson case. It was apparent straight after the standards report dropped that Paterson’s supporters were deploying an emotional rather than rational argument. There is of course huge sympathy for him across the Tory Party following the death of his wife last year. But as one senior government insider conceded to Playbook, whatever the arguments about the process of the investigation, it was obvious to anyone who read the evidence in the Standards Commissioner’s report that Paterson had breached paid advocacy rules. Despite coming to this internal view, Downing Street nonetheless set out to block his punishment and use the case to rewrite standards rules, something insiders now privately admit was a foolish political error.


The campaign: Soon after the standards report landed, Paterson and his circle began a “sustained” campaign via various Tory WhatsApp groups. Paterson and his pals spent days “literally flooding” the groups “multiple times a day,” sometimes with links to articles and comment pieces, making the case for his defense, a senior Tory MP who abstained on Wednesday’s vote says. Some MPs felt they should support Paterson out of solidarity. Others were deeply uneasy. Playbook is told there was a divide between a group older Brexiteer MPs who have known Paterson for years, and newer intakes who considered them completely out of touch with reality.


The brains trust: By Monday morning, word was quickly going round that an official plot was being concocted to get Paterson off. We are told by multiple sources that it was devised following meetings between Paterson and his friends in the Brexiteer “Spartan” group of MPs, with Mark Spencer, Jacob Rees-Mogg and advisers in the Downing Street political team. The idea was that No. 10 would back an amendment blocking Paterson’s 30-day Commons suspension and establishing a new committee led by Tory grandee John Whittingdale to rewrite standards rules. A senior member of the government tells us that Spencer and Rees-Mogg were the ministers driving the proposal, which was presented to the PM, who then gave it his blessing. On Tuesday night, Johnson attended a Telegraph dinner at the Garrick with the journalist Charles Moore, a friend and vocal supporter of Paterson. A Tory MP says “the whips were quite explicit in making it known to colleagues that the prime minister himself personally will be in the voting lobby and that should be indication enough.”


The plan backfired: The government won Wednesday’s vote with a far smaller majority than expected, with the Tory rebellion (including principled abstentions) totaling around 50. Within minutes, the realization dawned on No. 10 that its plan had a giant and somehow unforeseen flaw. Labour and the other opposition parties immediately boycotted the new Whittingdale committee, putting Downing Street in the untenable situation of having to set up a Tory-only sham to rewrite the rules in their favor. From that moment, Johnson knew the game was up. Wednesday night’s papers were a disaster for No. 10, and Spencer called Paterson at 10 a.m. on Thursday morning to tell him the government was U-turning, the Telegraph’s Chris Hope and Tony Diver report. Paterson then called Johnson to announce his resignation from parliament. There is speculation Johnson discussed a peerage with Paterson during that call. We are told that is emphatically untrue.


The blame game: Tory MPs and senior ministers — many of whom had not just been ordered to vote on a three-line whip for the amateurish stitch-up attempt, but defended it on broadcast — privately expressed their fury. Thursday saw the Conservative Party resemble a circular firing squad as MPs bemoaned the lack of judgment that left them in this position. We'll take you through who is being blamed …


Boris Johnson: The anger leads to the very top. Above all else, Tory MPs are livid that the PM marched them up the hill of voting for an indefensible and immensely publicly unpopular measure, only to then march them back down again and U-turn after the damage was done. More than one Tory MP yesterday complained to us about the number of times this keeps happening under Johnson, whether on Marcus Rashford’s free school meals or Matt Hancock’s corona rule-breaking. Some allies of the PM stress he had been away in Rome for the G20 and then up in Glasgow for the CO26 summit, so had more important priorities than the intricacies of the Spencer/Rees-Mogg wheeze. Some say he had his eye off the ball. Other Tories think it is inexcusable for a prime minister to even consider using his parliamentary majority to abuse the standards process, and that he should have shot it down immediately.


Back to basics: The Mail goes directly for Johnson, with six pages on the Paterson affair that lead with senior Tories questioning the PM’s judgment. A senior minister tells Jason Groves and Harriet Line: “This was completely avoidable. The problem with Boris is he packs his Cabinet with second-rate people, meaning there is no one to tell him he should take a different course. It all just looks like we’re back to the 1990s — MPs getting together to support their friends.”


Mark Spencer: The majority of Tory MPs’ rage is however reserved for the chief whip, who is widely seen as the ringleader of the plot. Multiple Tory MPs told us yesterday that Spencer had committed an unforgivable error of judgment by putting the interests of one unrepentant rule-breaking MP over the prime minister and the wider Conservative Party. A Whitehall insider tells us that Spencer failed in his duties on two counts: realizing his plan was unviable, and predicting the scale of the Tory rebellion. In a sign of the incompetence of the whips operation, at one point they claimed some Labour MPs were going to back their amendment out of a genuine desire to reform the standards system. Zero Labour MPs voted for the amendment.





Next up: The Telegraph’s Ben Riley-Smith reports that the Electoral Commission handed its initial findings on the Downing Street flat refurbishment row to Conservative Party chiefs. It will give its judgment on whether Johnson broke spending rules after the party has had a chance to respond — so we could get news on that quite soon.

[One Day Soon]

Farmer drama: The FT quotes an MP warning “people are apoplectic with the chief.” A senior Tory MP tells Guido’s Christian Calgie the row has “blown up” Spencer’s credibility, suggesting his whipping operation has been undermined as potential rebels now know they can force a U-turn and keep their jobs. A Tory MP tells the Guardian’s Aubrey Allegretti: “I have never heard ministers go through the lobby saying out loud ‘this is absolute madness.’ The chief whip needs to go for this.” An MP tells the Telegraph’s Chris Hope and Tony Diver: “The chief’s entire authority has been absolutely machine-gunned … he has just lost all authority in the parliamentary party.” An MP tells us: “This is where you would want your chief whip at these kind of moments to go eyeball to eyeball with the prime minister and say, ‘sorry, that plan ain’t gonna fly.'”


Marked man: There is plenty of Spencer-knocking copy doing the rounds today. ITV’s Robert Peston has insider details of the chief’s call with Whittingdale, offering him the job to chair the new sham committee. Peston reports Whittingdale had assumed Spencer had secured the opposition parties’ consent for the plan. Disastrously, he had not. The FT’s George Parker, Laura Hughes and Seb Payne reveal possible Tory rebels were told “they would lose funding for their constituency” if they voted against the amendment. A Tory veteran tells Jim Pickard: “Any MP who believed this deserves to have funding removed for being a thick gullible tw*t.” Labour’s Anneliese Dodds blasts: “Threatening to hold money back from voters and their communities, all to protect a Tory MP who broke the rules. If true this marks a new low for Johnson’s scandal-ridden Conservatives.”


Is Spencer’s position under threat? Downing Street last night said they would stand by their beleaguered chief whip. Others in the Tory Party wonder if his days in the job are numbered. Last night a “friend” of Spencer told Chris Hope: “He does not regret for one second circling the wagons around a colleague who is in trouble. He would do the same with any other colleague.” What is it with senior Tories and unrepentant doubling-down statements this week?


Jacob Rees-Mogg: Spencer is the one getting most of the grief today, though we are told Rees-Mogg was also instrumental in drawing up the botched plot and advising the PM to go with it. The Sun’s Harry Cole says Rees-Mogg assured Johnson the plan was watertight. One younger Tory MP told us that Spencer and Rees-Mogg are insular characters who spend all their time with other Conservative MPs similar to themselves, so have “no political judgment, no understanding of voters” and no understanding of what Tory MPs “outside their weird cabal” think.


No. 10 political team: Also heavily involved in the scheme to get Paterson off were SpAds in the Downing Street political unit, who worked with Spencer and Rees-Mogg on the plans for the amendment and the Whittingdale committee. The Sun’s Harry Cole reports No. 10 aides were divided on what to do, with the political team believing Johnson could get away with it, but Chief of Staff Dan Rosenfield and the press team advising him against. In their write-through, the Times‘ six-strong team of Steve Swinford, Oli Wright, Henry Zeffman, Eleni Courea and George Grylls quote a government source saying Johnson had asked aides on Thursday morning how he had been put in the position. “He’s pretty p*ssed off,” they said. The Mail’s front page asks: “Is anyone in charge at No. 10?”


The Spartans: There is a lot of criticism this morning for the group of Paterson’s friends who lobbied Spencer and No. 10 into trying to help their man. We are told Tory Brexiteers David Davis and Iain Duncan Smith spent days putting extreme pressure on colleagues to support Paterson. Some senior Tories feel these veteran MPs would have done their friend a better service if they’d advised him to keep his head down, accept his punishment quietly, then see off any attempt to force a by-election and carry on as an MP. Instead, they allowed Paterson to run away with the feeling that he was the victim of some great injustice — which didn’t stand up to scrutiny and ended up finishing his political career. More than one MP told us the Spartans failed in their “duty of care” for Paterson.


Class war: The Spartans’ macho behavior has also upset a lot of newer intake MPs, several of whom detect a whiff of condescension. “The toffs putting pressure on the oiks,” was how one MP characterized it to us, while a new MP said some Paterson supporters had been badmouthing Tory MPs on the standards committee, “saying they’re first-term MPs who don’t know what they were doing, suggesting they were bamboozled by Chris Bryant and the commissioner.” One MP tells Esther: “Boris has been able to rely on that 2019 lot very heavily as his main phalanx of support — his people, the ones he brought in. No. 10 need to be very, very careful that they don’t p*ss off too many of them and lose the goodwill.”


Owen Paterson himself: The sympathy many Tories had for Paterson has well and truly dried up. There was already disquiet bubbling away at one man deeming himself important enough to ask his colleagues to trash their reputations to defend him, especially when he was bang to rights. The final straw was the ill-advised interview Paterson gave to Sky’s Sam Coates on Wednesday night after the government won the vote, in which he boasted he “wouldn’t hesitate to do it again tomorrow, absolutely no question.” Coates yesterday reported Johnson was deeply unimpressed by the interview. A government source says the same in the Times: “It went down very badly in No. 10. They were expecting some contrition from Owen. Instead he came out all guns blazing.”


By-election klaxon: The BBC website leads on an intriguing tale this morning that “Labour, the Lib Dems and the Green Party are discussing standing aside and backing an independent ‘anti-sleaze’ candidate” in the by-election that will take place in North Shropshire. It’s fair to say this would be a big development if true. However, the FT’s Seb Payne reported late last night that it won’t happen, with senior Labour insiders pouring cold water on the idea. We are also steered away from the likelihood Labour wouldn’t stand. And a Lib Dem source adds: “The technicalities of having an independent candidate opposition parties get behind are frankly a complete nightmare. The Liberal Democrats are the anti-sleaze party wherever we stand.” Still one to watch.


Four by-elections coming up? It’s going to be a busy time in Tory, Labour and Lib Dem HQs. There will be a by-election in Old Bexley and Sidcup following the death of Tory MP James Brokenshire, with polling day expected early December. There will be another in North Shropshire following the Paterson resignation — the question is whether the Tories will try to get it out of the way quickly or go long? There will be an uncontested by-election in Southend West following the killing of David Amess. And there may well be a by-election in a few months time in Leicester East following the sentencing of the now expelled Labour MP Claudia Webbe yesterday. That all depends on Webbe’s appeal and a subsequent recall petition, though it could happen sooner if Webbe resigns.


What happens next? The government has said it will hold another vote on updating the standards system next week, but without any link to the Paterson case. The Mirror’s Pippa Crerar says the hope for cross-party consensus is doomed already, with a Labour source telling her: “It’s laughable. They didn’t want to listen to anyone, now they have totally f***ed it up they suddenly need talks.” Meanwhile the Lib Dems have an emergency SO24 debate in the diary for Monday afternoon.


Kwasi-autonomous: Deputy Labour leader Angela Rayner has written to the Prime Minister’s Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests Christopher Geidt accusing Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng of bullying Standards Commissioner Kathryn Stone. Kwarteng had questioned Stone’s position in an interview on Sky.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/252508156_4576386259084836_3772510089344740715_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=u7eHss0ozBwAX9Bk4O0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=bad1cfe0f7b3c2c047ff56e7d3c2a57a&oe=6189B217

[cabbageandribs1875]

Johnson and every other Tory that voted for corruptness may think they're off the hook now with the crooked one resigning, they're not, they've proven without any doubt they are more than happy to break any rules.



elsewhere, Labour/Greens and lib dems met to discuss letting an independent anti-sleaze candidate to get the vote in the crooked ones constituency, unfortunately Labour have decided they will stand

[lapsedhibee]

Farmer drama: The FT quotes an MP warning “people are apoplectic with the chief.” A senior Tory MP tells Guido’s Christian Calgie the row has “blown up” Spencer’s credibility, suggesting his whipping operation has been undermined as potential rebels now know they can force a U-turn and keep their jobs. A Tory MP tells the Guardian’s Aubrey Allegretti: “I have never heard ministers go through the lobby saying out loud ‘this is absolute madness.’ The chief whip needs to go for this.” An MP tells the Telegraph’s Chris Hope and Tony Diver: “The chief’s entire authority has been absolutely machine-gunned … he has just lost all authority in the parliamentary party.” An MP tells us: “This is where you would want your chief whip at these kind of moments to go eyeball to eyeball with the prime minister and say, ‘sorry, that plan ain’t gonna fly.'”


Marked man: There is plenty of Spencer-knocking copy doing the rounds today. ITV’s Robert Peston has insider details of the chief’s call with Whittingdale, offering him the job to chair the new sham committee. Peston reports Whittingdale had assumed Spencer had secured the opposition parties’ consent for the plan. Disastrously, he had not. The FT’s George Parker, Laura Hughes and Seb Payne reveal possible Tory rebels were told “they would lose funding for their constituency” if they voted against the amendment. A Tory veteran tells Jim Pickard: “Any MP who believed this deserves to have funding removed for being a thick gullible tw*t.” Labour’s Anneliese Dodds blasts: “Threatening to hold money back from voters and their communities, all to protect a Tory MP who broke the rules. If true this marks a new low for Johnson’s scandal-ridden Conservatives.”


Is Spencer’s position under threat? Downing Street last night said they would stand by their beleaguered chief whip. Others in the Tory Party wonder if his days in the job are numbered. Last night a “friend” of Spencer told Chris Hope: “He does not regret for one second circling the wagons around a colleague who is in trouble. He would do the same with any other colleague.” What is it with senior Tories and unrepentant doubling-down statements this week?


Jacob Rees-Mogg: Spencer is the one getting most of the grief today, though we are told Rees-Mogg was also instrumental in drawing up the botched plot and advising the PM to go with it. The Sun’s Harry Cole says Rees-Mogg assured Johnson the plan was watertight. One younger Tory MP told us that Spencer and Rees-Mogg are insular characters who spend all their time with other Conservative MPs similar to themselves, so have “no political judgment, no understanding of voters” and no understanding of what Tory MPs “outside their weird cabal” think.


No. 10 political team: Also heavily involved in the scheme to get Paterson off were SpAds in the Downing Street political unit, who worked with Spencer and Rees-Mogg on the plans for the amendment and the Whittingdale committee. The Sun’s Harry Cole reports No. 10 aides were divided on what to do, with the political team believing Johnson could get away with it, but Chief of Staff Dan Rosenfield and the press team advising him against. In their write-through, the Times‘ six-strong team of Steve Swinford, Oli Wright, Henry Zeffman, Eleni Courea and George Grylls quote a government source saying Johnson had asked aides on Thursday morning how he had been put in the position. “He’s pretty p*ssed off,” they said. The Mail’s front page asks: “Is anyone in charge at No. 10?”


The Spartans: There is a lot of criticism this morning for the group of Paterson’s friends who lobbied Spencer and No. 10 into trying to help their man. We are told Tory Brexiteers David Davis and Iain Duncan Smith spent days putting extreme pressure on colleagues to support Paterson. Some senior Tories feel these veteran MPs would have done their friend a better service if they’d advised him to keep his head down, accept his punishment quietly, then see off any attempt to force a by-election and carry on as an MP. Instead, they allowed Paterson to run away with the feeling that he was the victim of some great injustice — which didn’t stand up to scrutiny and ended up finishing his political career. More than one MP told us the Spartans failed in their “duty of care” for Paterson.


Class war: The Spartans’ macho behavior has also upset a lot of newer intake MPs, several of whom detect a whiff of condescension. “The toffs putting pressure on the oiks,” was how one MP characterized it to us, while a new MP said some Paterson supporters had been badmouthing Tory MPs on the standards committee, “saying they’re first-term MPs who don’t know what they were doing, suggesting they were bamboozled by Chris Bryant and the commissioner.” One MP tells Esther: “Boris has been able to rely on that 2019 lot very heavily as his main phalanx of support — his people, the ones he brought in. No. 10 need to be very, very careful that they don’t p*ss off too many of them and lose the goodwill.”


Owen Paterson himself: The sympathy many Tories had for Paterson has well and truly dried up. There was already disquiet bubbling away at one man deeming himself important enough to ask his colleagues to trash their reputations to defend him, especially when he was bang to rights. The final straw was the ill-advised interview Paterson gave to Sky’s Sam Coates on Wednesday night after the government won the vote, in which he boasted he “wouldn’t hesitate to do it again tomorrow, absolutely no question.” Coates yesterday reported Johnson was deeply unimpressed by the interview. A government source says the same in the Times: “It went down very badly in No. 10. They were expecting some contrition from Owen. Instead he came out all guns blazing.”


By-election klaxon: The BBC website leads on an intriguing tale this morning that “Labour, the Lib Dems and the Green Party are discussing standing aside and backing an independent ‘anti-sleaze’ candidate” in the by-election that will take place in North Shropshire. It’s fair to say this would be a big development if true. However, the FT’s Seb Payne reported late last night that it won’t happen, with senior Labour insiders pouring cold water on the idea. We are also steered away from the likelihood Labour wouldn’t stand. And a Lib Dem source adds: “The technicalities of having an independent candidate opposition parties get behind are frankly a complete nightmare. The Liberal Democrats are the anti-sleaze party wherever we stand.” Still one to watch.


Four by-elections coming up? It’s going to be a busy time in Tory, Labour and Lib Dem HQs. There will be a by-election in Old Bexley and Sidcup following the death of Tory MP James Brokenshire, with polling day expected early December. There will be another in North Shropshire following the Paterson resignation — the question is whether the Tories will try to get it out of the way quickly or go long? There will be an uncontested by-election in Southend West following the killing of David Amess. And there may well be a by-election in a few months time in Leicester East following the sentencing of the now expelled Labour MP Claudia Webbe yesterday. That all depends on Webbe’s appeal and a subsequent recall petition, though it could happen sooner if Webbe resigns.


What happens next? The government has said it will hold another vote on updating the standards system next week, but without any link to the Paterson case. The Mirror’s Pippa Crerar says the hope for cross-party consensus is doomed already, with a Labour source telling her: “It’s laughable. They didn’t want to listen to anyone, now they have totally f***ed it up they suddenly need talks.” Meanwhile the Lib Dems have an emergency SO24 debate in the diary for Monday afternoon.


Kwasi-autonomous: Deputy Labour leader Angela Rayner has written to the Prime Minister’s Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests Christopher Geidt accusing Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng of bullying Standards Commissioner Kathryn Stone. Kwarteng had questioned Stone’s position in an interview on Sky.

Lots of good detail in there though, as a pet peeve, good journalism used to be proofread before it was published.
the Times‘ six-strong team of Steve Swinford, Oli Wright, Henry Zeffman, Eleni Courea and George Gryll

No surprise that Rees-Mogg was up to his neck in it.

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm not sticking up for anyone, his angry posts are embarrassing and insulting to any reasoned debate. If his views were to the right you'd be on him like a pack of wolves like you tend to do on here, how he gets away with the constant abuse directed at tories and those who vote tory is beyond me.

:top marksIt's disgusting the way that anyone who votes Conservative is treated on this board.

Doubt a thread titled 'Nationalists are lying *******' would have been allowed for so long.

There's barely any debate to be had on any subject. Offer any view that is remotely Conservative and you're shot down in flames, not in an argument or debate kinda way, just name calling and online abuse.

Seems like you're fine if you read The National or Guardian but you're the Devil incarnate if you read anything else!

[lapsedhibee]

Doubt a thread titled 'Nationalists are lying *******' would have been allowed for so long.

Nothing to stop you putting that to the test! Maybe wouldn't get to the number of pages that this one has, but if it'd make Conservative voters feel less victimised, I'm all for it. :agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

more sleaze and corruptness......i blame the SNP for this corruptness

EXCLUSIVE: Suffolk at centre of multi million alleged cover-up of government PPE scandal – East Anglia Bylines (https://eastangliabylines.co.uk/exclusive-suffolk-at-centre-of-multi-million-alleged-cover-up-of-government-ppe-scandal/?fbclid=IwAR2tV-nbn15vEn5N6CTgA8bzCHlpY0Piz6E2phD3SCXd8rvBAYK78KUa awY)

In an exclusive report, East Anglia Bylines can reveal that Suffolk is at the centre of a huge alleged government cover-up of the covid PPE scandal. As well as wasting billions of pounds on buying unwanted or unusable material, it has cost the taxpayers of this country one million pounds a day (https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/156913/pandemic-lessons-cannot-wait-for-government-inquiry-with-massive-taxpayer-exposure-unacceptably-high-waste/) in storage.

[Kato]

debate kinda way, just name calling and online abuse.



There is plenty room and content on here debate among the name calling.

You yourself are fond of sticking up for the Rangers fans songs which are full of bile and can see past them to debate the merits or otherwise of them being sung. "It's only songs."

Can't you see past the "name calling " on this thread and go to the content and discuss that? Is it only you who determines what is disgusting and what we should let slide?

If every post here were just twitteresque one line insults fair enough, but that isn't the case.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

:top marksIt's disgusting the way that anyone who votes Conservative is treated on this board.

Doubt a thread titled 'Nationalists are lying *******' would have been allowed for so long.

There's barely any debate to be had on any subject. Offer any view that is remotely Conservative and you're shot down in flames, not in an argument or debate kinda way, just name calling and online abuse.

Seems like you're fine if you read The National or Guardian but you're the Devil incarnate if you read anything else!

It's difficult to debate self pitying victimhood rather than someone actually defending the actions and morals of the Conservative Party.

The problem is that no decent person can defend taking £20 a week away from the very poorest, hammering lower earners with NI rises whilst banks get tax cuts, mile long foodbank queues, constant cronyism, corruption and sleaze, constant breaking of ministerial code or just Brexit in its entirety.

I'd love for someone to actually defend that for a debate, as it is nobody does.

[lord bunberry]

Is Crunchie your first or last name?
:faf::faf:

[WhileTheChief..]

There is plenty room and content on here debate among the name calling.

You yourself are fond of sticking up for the Rangers fans songs which are full of bile and can see past them to debate the merits or otherwise of them being sung. "It's only songs."

Can't you see past the "name calling " on this thread and go to the content and discuss that? Is it only you who determines what is disgusting and what we should let slide?

If every post here were just twitteresque one line insults fair enough, but that isn't the case.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


Not sure what this has to do with the point I made about Conservatives or this thread?

[Kato]

Not sure what this has to do with the point I made about Conservatives or this thread?Is it not simple. You're not bothered about Rangers fans insulting, disgusting names for Catholics but are up in arms about people on here using insulting, disgusting names for Conservatives.



Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

It's difficult to debate self pitying victimhood rather than someone actually defending the actions and morals of the Conservative Party.

The problem is that no decent person can defend taking £20 a week away from the very poorest, hammering lower earners with NI rises whilst banks get tax cuts, mile long foodbank queues, constant cronyism, corruption and sleaze, constant breaking of ministerial code or just Brexit in its entirety.

I'd love for someone to actually defend that for a debate, as it is nobody does.


I doubt many Conservative voters vote the way they did because of these issues. I know I didn't.

It's just that these issues aren't the priority for the majority of people in the country.

Mile long foodbank queues?? Really? This is sort of stuff I just don't get. It's like Corbyn describing a country that hardly anyone recognised.

Maybe I'm extremely fortunate but I've never come across this and don't know anyone that knows anyone that is affected like this. ( I earn an average wage BTW and come from a working class family so I'm not some well off Tory B!)

Now we've got the Conservatives talking about levelling up across the country. I'd have thought everyone on the Left would see that as a positive thing. Get poorer people in the country earning more and giving them more opportunites in life. That's got to be a good thing no?

It's like the Left want to keep people in perpetual poverty instead of trying to lift them out of it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Is it not simple. You're not bothered about Rangers fans insulting, disgusting names for Catholics but are up in arms about people on here using insulting, disgusting names for Conservatives.



Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Perfectly chilled here, not up in arms about anything.

You should maybe just pop me on ignore?