Tories are still lying *******s

[Stairway 2 7]

And that number doesn't include those who never even bothered to go because they knew they didn't have the ID.

I know it's obviously on the bbc above but I still think it's under reported no, surely this is huge.

[Hibbyradge]

oh dear

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv9XB4XWAAMdx7k?format=jpg&name=small

That's disgusting on several levels.

[grunt]

Mogg on voter ID:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwLbSjtWwAIz7Oj?format=png&name=large

[Jack]

Mogg on voter ID:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwLbSjtWwAIz7Oj?format=png&name=large

Another excuse and lie. The torys got their erkies kicked because they've been a total abomination at both local and national level.

I think he's the only one saying it's affected the torys more than other parties 🥳


... and that National Conservativism thing is a global nest of fascist vipers.

[Northernhibee]

Another excuse and lie. The torys got their erkies kicked because they've been a total abomination at both local and national level.

I think he's the only one saying it's affected the torys more than other parties 🥳


... and that National Conservativism thing is a global nest of fascist vipers.
He’s saying that, but we know that voter ID disproportionately affected those most likely to vote Labour. The truth is that without it, they’d likely have lost even more councillors.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Tory MP Miriam cates at the National Conservatism Conference


(3) Miriam Cates - Twitter Search / Twitter (https://twitter.com/search?q=Miriam%20Cates&src=typeahead_click)

[cabbageandribs1875]

Javad Marandi: Tory donor's link to massive money laundering probe - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61264369)

well there's a surprise

His ties to the Conservative Party emerged through reports of his generous donations. Between 2014 and 2020, he gave £756,300, according to Electoral Commission records.


and another one

who had access to senior party members, including to then prime minister, Boris Johnson.


oh they just keep coming

Along with his wife, he heads the Marandi Foundation, which funds the Prince and Princess of Wales's charity.

[grunt]

The Tories, levelling up Teesside.

https://twitter.com/jamiesont/status/1658497300577042433?s=20

[Kato]

The Tories, levelling up Teesside.

https://twitter.com/jamiesont/status/1658497300577042433?s=20Oligarch Super Yacht port. Tax exempt, like what the oligarchs are.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Oligarch Super Yacht port. Tax exempt, like what the oligarchs are.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Have Labour committed to getting rid of Freeports?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Have Labour committed to getting rid of Freeports?
What does it matter whether they have or not? As MA pointed out, they'll renege on any commitments once they're in power.

[Mibbes Aye]

Have Labour committed to getting rid of Freeports?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not fully formalised yet. It falls within Lisa Nandy's shadow brief and she is set pretty strongly against them, she wrote to the National Audit Office calling for a full inquiry into the shenanigans with public money at Teesside although the NAO were/are obfuscating somewhat.

The problem is a number of local Labour-run authorities were amongst the bidders for freeports - I think that's a reflection of how badly the Tories have wrecked the economy, that local authorities have to make unpalatable choices for some 'trickledown' crumbs. It's a tough ask to take something away from communities that have been ravaged and not be able to make cast-iron guarantees, not knowing what state the public finances will be in once you get control of them.

The draft proposals for the next manifesto are with the National Policy Forum (basically covering all the stakeholders) this summer to then go to conference in autumn for members to vote. I would imagine something will crystalise for then, but after 13 years of Tory austerity, incompetence, corruption and malignancy, it's going to be a long to-do list for Labour.

[Mibbes Aye]

What does it matter whether they have or not? As MA pointed out, they'll renege on any commitments once they're in power.

Now, now. It's ungentlemanly to take a comment you know was made in jest and pretend it was serious :tsk tsk:

[Kato]

Have Labour committed to getting rid of Freeports?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDunno.

Workers in the Oligarch Super Yacht ports will have the same rights as the ex P&O workers who were sacked, which were doodlysquat. You might remember the Torys were outraged and were going to investigate their sackings and did what they usually do, which was didn't.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Now, now. It's ungentlemanly to take a comment you know was made in jest and pretend it was serious :tsk tsk:
Who said I was serious?

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1658513414975520773?t=945_T5DJkmIQMoHElp87aw&s=08

The National Conservative Conference. When did the UK essentially become the US with regards to Christian Fundamentalist nutters.

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1658513414975520773?t=945_T5DJkmIQMoHElp87aw&s=08

The National Conservative Conference. When did the UK essentially become the US with regards to Christian Fundamentalist nutters.2016.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Have Labour committed to getting rid of Freeports?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFollowing this one a bit, and for me it's about the here and now, Labour, if they had a clear position on this would be farting against the wind.

The party in power seem to be pushing something that is hugely beneficial to oligarchs and their like through on the back of the promise that it might economically benefit much more disadvantaged people and areas. It's almost as if this type of arrangement is the only way to regenerate or even begin to address historical imbalances in the area.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Following this one a bit, and for me it's about the here and now, Labour, if they had a clear position on this would be farting against the wind.

The party in power seem to be pushing something that is hugely beneficial to oligarchs and their like through on the back of the promise that it might economically benefit much more disadvantaged people and areas. It's almost as if this type of arrangement is the only way to regenerate or even begin to address historical imbalances in the area.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

You announce that they will be scrapped after election and they will be stopped in their tracks right away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

You announce that they will be scrapped after election and they will be stopped in their tracks right away.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIndeed, and I agree, but as the policy and all that goes with it electorally is all down to the current unpopular government trying to spin this one as a benefit for all there's no upside for Labour that I can see in doing that now.

The right wing leaning media would be handed a stick to beat them with, on the back of what started out as the Tories doing their bit for the usual suspects.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[grunt]

You announce that they will be scrapped after election and they will be stopped in their tracks right away.

No, If you announce that there will be a scramble to extract as much profit as possible before that happens. Pretty much as is happening now.

[Mibbes Aye]

Who said I was serious?

That's actually a very fair point :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1658513414975520773?t=945_T5DJkmIQMoHElp87aw&s=08

The National Conservative Conference. When did the UK essentially become the US with regards to Christian Fundamentalist nutters.

As the Guardian reported, two Cabinet ministers and a bunch of other Tory MPs, listening to, or coming out with jibber-jabber like this'



The normative family, the mother and father sticking together for the sake of the children, is the only basis for a safe and functioning society


liberal individualism has proven to be completely powerless to resist the cultural Marxism that is systematically destroying our children’s souls.


This new left is not in competition, it is at war with the West, with the moral, intellectual and social foundations on which our entire civilisation rests.
Which is why it reserves a singular hatred for the kind of conservatism represented by Donald Trump and [Florida governor] Ron DeSantis, by Brexit, by (Hungarian president) Viktor Orban, and yes by this conference.


There's a level of US-style right wing mythmaking going on here that frankly terrifies, repels and angers me, all in equal neasure

[grunt]

There's a level of US-style right wing mythmaking going on here that frankly terrifies, repels and angers me, all in equal neasure
Strongly agree with you here.

[JimBHibees]

As the Guardian reported, two Cabinet ministers and a bunch of other Tory MPs, listening to, or coming out with jibber-jabber like this'






There's a level of US-style right wing mythmaking going on here that frankly terrifies, repels and angers me, all in equal neasure

Agree frightening

[grunt]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suella-braverman-asked-civil-servants-to-help-her-dodge-speeding-fine-ckt0gcbnh


Suella Braverman asked Home Office civil servants to help her avoid a speeding fine and points on her licence by arranging a private one-to-one driving awareness course

The arrangement, which the Home Secretary sought after being caught speeding last summer, would have meant she would not have to attend an in-person course with other motorists, or an online one where her name and face would be visible to other participants

When the civil servants refused to help, she turned to a political aide for assistance. They tried to get the course provider to agree to the arrangements

The course provider refused

Braverman, who is in charge of UK law enforcement, later pulled out and opted to take the three points on her licence

Sources close to her insist she has not broken ministerial code

[Lendo]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suella-braverman-asked-civil-servants-to-help-her-dodge-speeding-fine-ckt0gcbnh

Imagine all the other **** that they get up to that is covered up and we don’t hear about. Corrupt to their core.

[grunt]

Imagine all the other **** that they get up to that is covered up and we don’t hear about. Corrupt to their core.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuz2ec2WYAEJXrD?format=jpg&name=900x900

[grunt]

Totally reasonable approach.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwvRls2WwAETxPN?format=jpg&name=medium

[grunt]

The inside of James Cleverly's rented jet. Paid for by you and me.

But tell me again about Nicola's motorhome.

https://air-hamburg.de/images/360/D-AWOW/

[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65673622

Why is it that under the Tories things get worse rather than better? If I'm travelling from Edinburgh to London by train you can be damn sure I expect to have wifi available.

This country is going to the dogs.

[grunt]

So it turns out that a senior member of the Government that pushed through a huge change to our democracy can publicly admit it was a deliberate attempt to suppress the vote, and not a single official body thinks this is in any way worth investigating

https://t.co/lruaHXJ1b4

[grunt]

I Was Cancelled by Sunak's Government For Criticising Them on Twitter

Leading weapons expert Dan Kaszeta reveals how he fell victim to a Soviet-style blacklist after officials discovered he had criticised the Government


https://bylinetimes.com/2023/05/23/i-was-cancelled-by-sunaks-government-for-criticising-them-on-twitter/

[grunt]

Oh.


Boris Johnson referred to police over new lockdown rulebreaking claims

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7d111568-f983-11ed-9be0-622d8a105167?shareToken=3b6ff2cd922244fd0af52f6edc 31d3c2

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65698305?at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=747EF482-FA42-11ED-8B83-64B0AD7C7D13&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCPolitics&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65698305?at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=747EF482-FA42-11ED-8B83-64B0AD7C7D13&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCPolitics&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTwo or three Charlie dealers in Central London swiftly dumping their burners.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65698305?at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=747EF482-FA42-11ED-8B83-64B0AD7C7D13&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCPolitics&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't get the police saying they are responding to reports about Johnson receiving guests during lockdown. Surely the police were there?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't get the police saying they are responding to reports about Johnson receiving guests during lockdown. Surely the police were there?

We’re talking about the MET here.[emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1661289729294254083?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Sunak’s failure to get a grip of inflation is going to be expensive for us all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

A car crash in Downing Street. The jokes just write themselves these days.

[Stairway 2 7]

A car crash in Downing Street. The jokes just write themselves these days.

Weird as it looks about 5mph

https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1661764182914527237

[Just Alf]

Lol... looks more like a parking in the wrong space incident :rofl:

[grunt]

Look at the ferry "scandal", don't look at this ...


An American banker was paid a £73m dividend in 2021 after his firm won hundreds of millions in Covid contracts, figures show.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/25/us-banker-banks-bourne-paid-73m-dividend-2021-millions-uk-covid-contracts

[grunt]

Look at the ferry "scandal", don't look at this ...


PPE: Supplier of millions of 'not fit for use' gowns received £47m dividends

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-63971493

[Kato]

"Due diligence was carried out on all companies that were referred to the department and every company was subjected to the same checks"

Apparently not.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

"Due diligence was carried out on all companies that were referred to the department and every company was subjected to the same checks"

https://youtu.be/J2uhWTFvug8

[Stairway 2 7]

Said before but tories could be out of power for a long time soon, unless they move left. Under 40s are the first generation ever to not turn right. Possibly due to less owning a home as has been mentioned here before

https://archive.ph/wNLZ8

How millennials are creating an ‘electoral timebomb’ for the Tories

[Ozyhibby]

Said before but tories could be out of power for a long time soon, unless they move left. Under 40s are the first generation ever to not turn right. Possibly due to less owning a home as has been mentioned here before

https://archive.ph/wNLZ8

How millennials are creating an ‘electoral timebomb’ for the Tories

Wonder if the same electoral timebomb exists for the union?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Wonder if the same electoral timebomb exists for the union?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I definitely think so. I don't know if people traditionally turn to staying in the union, younger groups definitely more pro independence though

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw5HfQGWcAgL1I7?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Stairway 2 7]

More nhs incompetence from the tories. Plans to cut doctors degrees by a year to cut gaps. Ridiculous, sure it won't happen. Hopefully they are voted out before they can do more destruction

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nurses-doctors-degrees-cut-nhs-b2346370.html

Nursing and doctor degrees to be cut short in bid to plug NHS staff shortages
Critics warn the move would put patient safety at risk and even drive potential recruits away from NHS

Ministers desperate to plug NHS shortages are floating plans to shorten doctors’ training by a year.

The radical plans would see doctors’ degrees reduced from five to four years, while nursing students could be fast-tracked to be qualified in just two-and-a-half years

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349974298_461220509560463_6230046519901880719_n.jp g?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zYVKhnZiihcAX_nzI96&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfC8y9YeLj7hQMrxVqILJ44moqwD_LKkxGJCfJW2C-76IA&oe=647A3A04

[cabbageandribs1875]

that Carol Vorderman certainly isn't hitting and missing they slimy corrupt gits (1) Carol Vorderman on Twitter: "NEW INFO re @GregHands, Chair of the Tory party. Hands personally recommended his mate Mark Higton for £25.8m (or more) PPE contract. Higton's company Luxe Lifestyle had a turnover of only £10,000 & had NEVER dealt with PPE before. I've just checked Companies House & they STILL… https://t.co/zEbrH0eXnu" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1662839482368884736?s=46&t=JIrJ1xNtjW2uL7oQ0IhCRw&fbclid=IwAR2PffLhJUYBdm8-CeDVu67sethrR-apnYJZ2Hsb0H0A8dNoR-kjMWu69a0)

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/britain_people/status/1663127794279411712?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Yeh, but ferries and all that.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

https://twitter.com/britain_people/status/1663127794279411712?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Yeh, but ferries and all that.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think this one may pass the sniff test, it's a weird story although I don't know all the details. There was a piece about the broader subject on Radio 4 a little while back.

The firm in question is NI-based and built the Routemaster red buses in London, amongst other things. They then went into administration. lots of talk of the then-owner putting millions towards some sort of US-style evangelical superministry in Ballymena.

Jo Bamford bought it out of administration and has been developing zero-emission buses there, some based on battery, some on Hydrogen, and I think they have orders for both on their books.

They got a wedge of money from the Net Zero Hydrogen Fund a couple of months back to develop the hydrogen buses for wider development and production.

I appreciate that people will see the Bamford connection and assume the worst, but Sunak and Hunt are meant to be at loggerheads with Johnson anyway, aren't they? I don't doubt it does any harm having the clout of the Bamford name but by the same token (bus token?), the firm has a solid track record of delivering big contracts for buses and developing zero-emission products.

[Ozyhibby]

I think this one may pass the sniff test, it's a weird story although I don't know all the details. There was a piece about the broader subject on Radio 4 a little while back.

The firm in question is NI-based and built the Routemaster red buses in London, amongst other things. They then went into administration. lots of talk of the then-owner putting millions towards some sort of US-style evangelical superministry in Ballymena.

Jo Bamford bought it out of administration and has been developing zero-emission buses there, some based on battery, some on Hydrogen, and I think they have orders for both on their books.

They got a wedge of money from the Net Zero Hydrogen Fund a couple of months back to develop the hydrogen buses for wider development and production.

I appreciate that people will see the Bamford connection and assume the worst, but Sunak and Hunt are meant to be at loggerheads with Johnson anyway, aren't they? I don't doubt it does any harm having the clout of the Bamford name but by the same token (bus token?), the firm has a solid track record of delivering big contracts for buses and developing zero-emission products.

Donations to political parties should exclude you from govt contracts. Second jobs shouldn’t be allowed. Any second job. I don’t care if your a Doc and want to keep your hand in. If you want to be an mp it should be your only focus. If that’s not for you, fine, there are plenty others willing to do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

To see ourselves as other see us. From the New York Times:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxcmvQIX0AAibTc?format=jpg&name=medium

[JimBHibees]

Said before but tories could be out of power for a long time soon, unless they move left. Under 40s are the first generation ever to not turn right. Possibly due to less owning a home as has been mentioned here before

https://archive.ph/wNLZ8

How millennials are creating an ‘electoral timebomb’ for the Tories

When it has the media in its pocket does it matter.

[Stairway 2 7]

When it has the media in its pocket does it matter.

Yeah as the under 45s literally aren't turning more right wing for the first generation ever and that's with the media. Under 45s also consume media differently. I think Labour could be in for a long time unless the tories come into the centre.

It might take a little while because old people vote much more, but it's inevitable

[wookie70]

To see ourselves as other see us. From the New York Times:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxcmvQIX0AAibTc?format=jpg&name=medium

Unmooring it from its foundations is a fantastic line. Citizens have went from owning utilities, oil reserves, telecomms, postal services, huge amounts of land and property along with reasonable benefits systems, good health and social care, community resources such as parkies, toilets etc etc etc. all of which came with less national and local tax burden to owning next to nothing while all the systems that make communities function have been left at the dock while we drift into the middle of the sea awaiting the next round of stormy weather. Thatcher started it but Cameron and the morons that followed have accelerated it. New Labour never really reversed much of the harm more put a sticking plaster over the gaping wound. We are now so far from land I don't think it is possible to return to the safety of shore and we are constantly shouted at from those on the shore they stole from us to "grow some sea legs".

[Ozyhibby]

Unmooring it from its foundations is a fantastic line. Citizens have went from owning utilities, oil reserves, telecomms, postal services, huge amounts of land and property along with reasonable benefits systems, good health and social care, community resources such as parkies, toilets etc etc etc. all of which came with less national and local tax burden to owning next to nothing while all the systems that make communities function have been left at the dock while we drift into the middle of the sea awaiting the next round of stormy weather. Thatcher started it but Cameron and the morons that followed have accelerated it. New Labour never really reversed much of the harm more put a sticking plaster over the gaping wound. We are now so far from land I don't think it is possible to return to the safety of shore and we are constantly shouted at from those on the shore they stole from us to "grow some sea legs".

As you weaken the state don’t be surprised when people’s loyalty to it starts to fall. Hence the rise of the Indy movement in Scotland.
Is Starmer going to reverse that? I doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/allancasey89/status/1664238192063664128?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/allancasey89/status/1664238192063664128?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They got a reprieve last minute because of bad publicity and it's temporary until they get their new 15k van. It's difficult I agree with doing things like LEZ but it's always as usual a tax on the poor. Rich people get motors 10 years ago send fumes into the atmosphere for a decade, poorer person buys it and its excluded. There's no many motor's in Morningside that won't qualify to drive in the zone. Should be better government scrappage grants.

Same will happen when they eventually make us have electric heating in our homes, easier for those that can afford the change. Obviously the other side is we need to do something

[Ozyhibby]

They got a reprieve last minute because of bad publicity and it's temporary until they get their new 15k van. It's difficult I agree with doing things like LEZ but it's always as usual a tax on the poor. Rich people get motors 10 years ago send fumes into the atmosphere for a decade, poorer person buys it and its excluded. There's no many motor's in Morningside that won't qualify to drive in the zone. Should be better government scrappage grants.

Same will happen when they eventually make us have electric heating in our homes, easier for those that can afford the change. Obviously the other side is we need to do something

The very poorest don’t have a car at all and use public transport. It’s all upside for them with cleaner air to breath. This has to be done. And when Edinburgh bring in ours next year under the Better Together coalition they’ll have my full support.
This is like the smoking ban, in a few years we’ll look back and wonder why it wasn’t done sooner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

The Tories - supporting Ukraine but not matching their sanctions.

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/06/01/rishi-sunak-refuses-to-join-ukraine-in-sanctioning-alexander-lebedev/


Rishi Sunak has declined to commit to sanctioning the Russian oligarch and former KGB officer Alexander Lebedev, despite both Ukraine and Canada targeting him for his alleged links to Putin’s regime.

The website Tortoise revealed (https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2023/06/01/evening-standard-owner-sanctioned-by-ukraine-over-russias-war/) on Wednesday that Lebedev, whose son partly owns the Evening Standard newspaper and was handed a peerage by former Prime Minister Boris Johnson, has been targeted by Ukraine as a “person directly or indirectly controlled by residents of a foreign state or acting in their interests”.

The sanction was imposed by Kyiv last October but has not since been matched by the UK.

Ukraine’s decision to impose sanctions on Lebedev comes after the UK’s fellow ‘Five Eyes’ (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/the-five-eyes-the-intelligence-alliance-of-the-anglosphere/) ally Canada also sanctioned him (https://bylinetimes.com/2022/05/30/alexander-lebedev-boris-johnson-angela-rayner-canada-sanctions-russia-putin-ukraine/) for allegedly enabling “Vladimir Putin’s senseless war in Ukraine.”

[Stairway 2 7]

The very poorest don’t have a car at all and use public transport. It’s all upside for them with cleaner air to breath. This has to be done. And when Edinburgh bring in ours next year under the Better Together coalition they’ll have my full support.
This is like the smoking ban, in a few years we’ll look back and wonder why it wasn’t done sooner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not the very poorest but there are many low paid workers that have cars and they are weighted to having older cars. Middle class people don't see any issues. But for the cleaner that starts at 5 before they can get the bus it's not like the smoking ban.

[Ozyhibby]

Not the very poorest but there are many low paid workers that have cars and they are weighted to having older cars. Middle class people don't see any issues. But for the cleaner that starts at 5 before they can get the bus it's not like the smoking ban.

By the time it comes in in Edinburgh you will be able to drive a 17 year old car without any charge at all. I would think if you are driving a car older than that then it’s likely to be cheaper to buy newer rather than maintain an older car. There are not many pre 2006 cars on the road in Edinburgh these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

By the time it comes in in Edinburgh you will be able to drive a 17 year old car without any charge at all. I would think if you are driving a car older than that then it’s likely to be cheaper to buy newer rather than maintain an older car. There are not many pre 2006 cars on the road in Edinburgh these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My mates a childminder and her diesel is much younger than that and she can't use it, so it must be later. She needs a 7 seater for work but can't afford a new one. Government can give her 400 or something to scrap it but still no car.

Will be loads of tradesmen in the same boat needing a new van. Needs must but comparisons to smoking bans are only from people not effected

[Callum_62]

My mates a childminder and her diesel is much younger than that and she can't use it, so it must be later. She needs a 7 seater for work but can't afford a new one. Government can give her 400 or something to scrap it but still no car.

Will be loads of tradesmen in the same boat needing a new van. Needs must but comparisons to smoking bans are only from people not effectedThe*minimum criteria are

Euro 4 for*petrol cars and vans -*generally vehicles registered from 2006

Euro 6 for*diesel cars and vans* -*generally vehicles registered from September 2015



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/01/government-to-launch-legal-action-in-attempt-to-retain-johnson-whatsapps


Legal action is being launched by the government in a last-ditch attempt to avoid handing over (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/01/grant-shapps-urges-no-10-hand-boris-johnson-whatsapps-covid-inquiry) Boris Johnson’s unredacted WhatsApps to the official Covid public inquiry.

The inquiry’s chair, Heather Hallett, had given the Cabinet Office a deadline to comply with her demands for evidence of 4pm on Thursday.

Senior officials had sought to avoid supplying the full files to Lady Hallett, arguing first that they contained “unambiguously irrelevant” details and then claiming they did not have the documents.

But Johnson on Wednesday handed over the full tranche (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/31/boris-johnson-says-his-whatsapps-and-notes-can-be-given-to-covid-inquiry) and challenged the government to pass on their entire contents to Hallett.

The decision by the Cabinet Office to launch a judicial review of Hallett’s request risks fuelling allegations of a cover-up, and is an unprecedented challenge to the remit of a public inquiry.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/01/government-to-launch-legal-action-in-attempt-to-retain-johnson-whatsapps

Clearly Johnson is happy to release as he was quite pro restriction and lockdown, whilst Rishi was the most anti lockdown and restrictions in government along with Patel and Mogg. Must be some tremendous messages hope the B's in government get made to release

[wookie70]

By the time it comes in in Edinburgh you will be able to drive a 17 year old car without any charge at all. I would think if you are driving a car older than that then it’s likely to be cheaper to buy newer rather than maintain an older car. There are not many pre 2006 cars on the road in Edinburgh these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is just petrol cars. For diesel the date is 2015 and even then it has to be a model from that year not one like mine where it was registered in 2015. It will be a massive pain as I planned to keep my car for another 4 years or so if it keeps going but I support the idea. The execution is terrible though and there should have been thought given to some really fundamental changes to the way we travel in and around the city. This will just punish those who won't be able to afford a LEZ compliant vehicle and whose current car has just lost a huge chunk of value. I'd far rather they went down teh same road as London where you could make the odd journey and pay the fee. I also think that there should be some dispensation for groups like foodbanks and also businesses that invested in a new fleet or vehicle before the announcement of LEZs were made and at a time Diesel was being pushed by the government.

I want Scotland to go through the pain involved in being cleaner and greener. It is similar to the smoking ban etc. Yes, lots will be upset and it seems unfair but it is simply the right thing to do and the more Governments do the right thing the better the world will be.

[hibee]

Not the very poorest but there are many low paid workers that have cars and they are weighted to having older cars. Middle class people don't see any issues. But for the cleaner that starts at 5 before they can get the bus it's not like the smoking ban.

In Scotland it’s being implemented on the age of the car rather than the CO2 emissions.

My 2005 car with 248g/km will be banned from the zone while something like a 2006 Audi A8 6L with 338g/km will be allowed in.

I’d imagine there’s plenty of low paid workers driving clean cars with tiny engines that would be allowed in London but will be effectively useless in Scotland when this comes in just because of their age.

[wookie70]

In Scotland it’s being implemented on the age of the car rather than the CO2 emissions.

My 2005 car with 248g/km will be banned from the zone while something like a 2006 Audi A8 6L with 338g/km will be allowed in.

I’d imagine there’s plenty of low paid workers driving clean cars with tiny engines that would be allowed in London but will be effectively useless in Scotland when this comes in just because of their age.

I think it is more to do with particulate emissions. That is why diesels have to be much newer as by 2015 they had mechanism to capture particles using ad blue or better dpf etc.

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1664310532759777282?s=20


Crucial new fact from the thicket of Covid inquiry legal wrangling this evening.

While Boris Johnson has passed lots of WhatsApps to the Cabinet Office, they only date from May 2021 onwards - when he got a new phone.

None of the messages before then have been shared

[Stairway 2 7]

Classic cars are exempt, not sure why as they splutter out crap and surely aren't needed in the centre of town, have and have nots. Showmans vehicles also exempt and I'm not sure why just there profession protected

"The vehicle was manufactured, or registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994, for the first time at least 30 years ago

The vehicle is no longer in production

The vehicle has been historically preserved or maintained in its original state and has not undergone substantial changes in the technical characteristics of its main components"

[Ozyhibby]

That is just petrol cars. For diesel the date is 2015 and even then it has to be a model from that year not one like mine where it was registered in 2015. It will be a massive pain as I planned to keep my car for another 4 years or so if it keeps going but I support the idea. The execution is terrible though and there should have been thought given to some really fundamental changes to the way we travel in and around the city. This will just punish those who won't be able to afford a LEZ compliant vehicle and whose current car has just lost a huge chunk of value. I'd far rather they went down teh same road as London where you could make the odd journey and pay the fee. I also think that there should be some dispensation for groups like foodbanks and also businesses that invested in a new fleet or vehicle before the announcement of LEZs were made and at a time Diesel was being pushed by the government.

I want Scotland to go through the pain involved in being cleaner and greener. It is similar to the smoking ban etc. Yes, lots will be upset and it seems unfair but it is simply the right thing to do and the more Governments do the right thing the better the world will be.

I’m certain that as time goes on, these rules will get tighter and tighter until only electric cars are allowed in cities and even then, it will cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m certain that as time goes on, these rules will get tighter and tighter until only electric cars are allowed in cities and even then, it will cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd ban them all together in the very centre, doesn't matter how rich you are or if you can afford an expensive "green car" equal foreveryone.

[hibee]

Classic cars are exempt, not sure why as they splutter out crap and surely aren't needed in the centre of town, have and have nots. Showmans vehicles also exempt and I'm not sure why just there profession protected

"The vehicle was manufactured, or registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994, for the first time at least 30 years ago

The vehicle is no longer in production

The vehicle has been historically preserved or maintained in its original state and has not undergone substantial changes in the technical characteristics of its main components"

Fantastic, I swapped my 1989 for one half it’s age and now it turns out the newer one is banned but I could have driven the old one into town with no issues!

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1664310532759777282?s=20

Tories taking the covid enquiry to court is a gift to their opposition. Sunak must have a lot to hide to take this course of action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Tories taking the covid enquiry to court is a gift to their opposition. Sunak must have a lot to hide to take this course of action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What is known should have him in court he proudly said in the spectator he was the only lockdown sceptic in the cabinet, so God knows what he said privately

“Rishi Sunak has said it was wrong to “empower scientists” to such a degree during the pandemic, as he revealed how he spoke out in government about the costs of lockdown

Those meetings were literally me around that table, just fighting. It was incredibly uncomfortable every single time.”


He got covid lockdown sceptics including the idiot Sunetra Gupta to talk to the cabinet. Also eat out to help out simply cost lives. I think from Hancocks WhatsApps Hancock comes out best in fighting with valance, boris comes out thick but quite pro restrictions when he understands there need which takes a while and Sunak and Gavin Williamson come across as Evil money hungry people

[Stairway 2 7]

Johnson has wrote to the enquiry saying he is happy for them to check all messages and bypass cabinet. Love blue on blue fighting, hopefully both of the spivs go under

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1664331678498664450


Henry Zeffman
@hzeffman
·
Boris Johnson has also now written to the Covid inquiry offering to share the unredacted material directly (ie without the Cabinet Office intermediating)

[Bristolhibby]

Johnson has wrote to the enquiry saying he is happy for them to check all messages and bypass cabinet. Love blue on blue fighting, hopefully both of the spivs go under

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1664331678498664450


Henry Zeffman
@hzeffman
·
Boris Johnson has also now written to the Covid inquiry offering to share the unredacted material directly (ie without the Cabinet Office intermediating)

Ahhh, the old scorched earth policy, with a bit of poisoning the well thrown in.

All very Moscow in 1812.

Lovely.

J

[bringbackbenny]

I think it is more to do with particulate emissions. That is why diesels have to be much newer as by 2015 they had mechanism to capture particles using ad blue or better dpf etc.

Yup. Additionaly you can't rely on the valid year being from 2015 onwards (official euro 6 standard from then?). My A3 is late 2014 which doesn't have Euro 6 specified on the registration certificate but still meets the criteria and confirmed as ok for the LEZ zones.

[Ozyhibby]

Yup. Additionaly you can't rely on the valid year being from 2015 onwards (official euro 6 standard from then?). My A3 is late 2014 which doesn't have Euro 6 specified on the registration certificate but still meets the criteria and confirmed as ok for the LEZ zones.

https://youtu.be/sCSkNiyYv8g

Direction of travel for Scotland?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Johnson has been telling fibs again. Anyone surprised?

My new/old phone is on/off/unsafe/lost and needs specialist hackers/divers to switch on/recover from the moat that goes around my mansion.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1665730551683207175?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Tory MP charged with racist public order offence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Yup. Additionaly you can't rely on the valid year being from 2015 onwards (official euro 6 standard from then?). My A3 is late 2014 which doesn't have Euro 6 specified on the registration certificate but still meets the criteria and confirmed as ok for the LEZ zones.
My 2015 Skoda Superb is not compliant. I knew that when I bought it a few years back though. I didn't realise they were going to make it a fine rather than a payment. I try to avoid going into Edinburgh anyway as it is such a mess now. Most of the football grounds will be outside the zones so it won't be much of a problem for me.

[poolman]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/170803142_299774781508264_2908294029639327643_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vqTJ-zfYTkMAX_cteU-&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=5911ac63bdd2cc1f2dbe9cbfabc85e5f&oe=609ABD70


Tories are just vile crooked corrupt ****s


ALL of them



Hope you don't think it's just Tories

In my mind it's a qualification to get into Westminster for all parties

[JimBHibees]

Hope you don't think it's just Tories

In my mind it's a qualification to get into Westminster for all parties

That is what the Tories want you to think.

[McD]

Yup. Additionaly you can't rely on the valid year being from 2015 onwards (official euro 6 standard from then?). My A3 is late 2014 which doesn't have Euro 6 specified on the registration certificate but still meets the criteria and confirmed as ok for the LEZ zones.


My 2015 Skoda Superb is not compliant. I knew that when I bought it a few years back though. I didn't realise they were going to make it a fine rather than a payment. I try to avoid going into Edinburgh anyway as it is such a mess now. Most of the football grounds will be outside the zones so it won't be much of a problem for me.


is there a link that a car can be checked at all? Before one gets fined :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

is there a link that a car can be checked at all? Before one gets fined :greengrin

https://motorway.co.uk/ulez-checker

It's for London, but I think if you're compliant there you'll be fine in the Scottish cities too.

Edit: Here's the Scottish one:

https://www.lowemissionzones.scot/vehicle-registration-checker

[Moulin Yarns]

is there a link that a car can be checked at all? Before one gets fined :greengrin

Yes. Look for the low emission zone you are going to online , say edinburgh and you can check your car registration.

I'm glad that edinburgh has excluded queen St. It's south of there. Glasgow has included high St so if you come off the m8 at the infirmary heading south you will be caught.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes. Look for the low emission zone you are going to online , say edinburgh and you can check your car registration.

I'm glad that edinburgh has excluded queen St. It's south of there. Glasgow has included high St so if you come off the m8 at the infirmary heading south you will be caught.

The zone will gradually be expanded and get stricter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

The zone will gradually be expanded and get stricter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aye, I dare say it will expand like the parking zones did in the past.

[McD]

https://motorway.co.uk/ulez-checker

It's for London, but I think if you're compliant there you'll be fine in the Scottish cities too.

Edit: Here's the Scottish one:

https://www.lowemissionzones.scot/vehicle-registration-checker


Yes. Look for the low emission zone you are going to online , say edinburgh and you can check your car registration.

I'm glad that edinburgh has excluded queen St. It's south of there. Glasgow has included high St so if you come off the m8 at the infirmary heading south you will be caught.


thanks both, much appreciated. And happily my car is fine for the LEZ

[grunt]

Interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/07/boris-and-carrie-johnson-hosted-friend-at-chequers-during-covid-restrictions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Boris and Carrie Johnson (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/carrie-symonds) hosted a close friend, who helped plan their wedding, overnight at Chequers when a number of Covid restrictions were in place, the Guardian has been told.

Dixie Maloney, a corporate events organiser, stayed at the former prime minister’s grace-and-favour country mansion on 7 May 2021 when indoor gatherings between different households were banned except when “reasonably necessary” for reasons such as work or childcare.

[Jack]

Torygraph and Spectator up for sale following being put into administration by Lloyd's Bank over a debt of £1bn.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65835312

[J-C]

Yes. Look for the low emission zone you are going to online , say edinburgh and you can check your car registration.

I'm glad that edinburgh has excluded queen St. It's south of there. Glasgow has included high St so if you come off the m8 at the infirmary heading south you will be caught.

Glad those pesky emissions know they're not allowed to float over Queen St towards the exclusion zone, a bit like when there was smoking on buses and the cinema. 😂

[J-C]

https://motorway.co.uk/ulez-checker

It's for London, but I think if you're compliant there you'll be fine in the Scottish cities too.

Edit: Here's the Scottish one:

https://www.lowemissionzones.scot/vehicle-registration-checker

I've just checked and my 21yr old VW Golf is fine to drive in low zones

[Ozyhibby]

Dorries away in the huff and not getting her honour. By election coming up.[emoji23]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667181684960182285?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667176050219003904?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230609/f2b9f1c32b43dadbc6a6b284fdfb5ca1.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Dorries away in the huff and not getting her honour. By election coming up.[emoji23]

Five hours ago ...

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1667184705601519622?s=20

[Jones28]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyLc2rYXsAAuXc0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Saw this. Enjoyed.

[grunt]

Johnson's crony list is issued:


The one who arranged - and covered up - the parties
The one embroiled in the Teesside Freeport scandal
The one who told us Brexit would bring cheaper food and who couldn't find a Brexit benefit
The one who gave the finger outside No.10
The bully who boasted about taking away our freedom of movement and who was fired from Government

[grunt]

Dame Andrea Jenkyns (for public and political services)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyMdt7LWAAAE_ex?format=jpg&name=900x900

[grunt]

Sir Michael Fabricant

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyMeKd8WIAE02lN?format=jpg&name=360x360

[grunt]

Former Conservative Party co-chair Ben Elliot, who has just been handed a knighthood by Boris Johnson for "political and public service" to the nation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyMk2d-WwAY3A2Q?format=jpg&name=medium

[grunt]

One of these lockdown partygoers gets a peerage and another gets an OBE.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyMoK90WwBUefp0?format=jpg&name=small

[Colr]

Dorries away in the huff and not getting her honour. By election coming up.[emoji23]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667181684960182285?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Class in England.

This is a reminder, if you needed one, that no matter how far you stick you tongue up their fundaments, no matter how you do their dirty work, no matter how much they hang around with you, you will NEVER be one of them.

Come the time, you will be ditched like **** of a shovel.

There’s a reason why, of all the Covid PPE fraudsters, its Michelle Mone that they threw under the bus.

Such is the lot of the class traitor!! (If my may overstate my case for a moment)

[ACLeith]

JRM got his for being the clear winner of the remake of the Upper Class Twit of the Year competition (copyright Monty Python)

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Boris has quit

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2t6pywsc8M&t=18s


still a good one for the scruffiest politician, corrupt crooked mop headed git

[Bostonhibby]

Looks like partygate was pretty much what happened, who would have though Bozo couldn't lie and bluster his way out of yet another " indiscretion".

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

Boris has quit

Well done to Harriet Harman and the cross-bench Standards Committee for applying the final blow.

And to all the MPs from all corners of the house who used the opportunity of PMQs to trap him in his own web of deception and lies. Without that we wouldn’t have had this Committee inquiry.

[Glory Lurker]

HIGNFY once again curses being recorded on a Thursday.

[cabbageandribs1875]

his number one maddest of Groupies Dorries also stands down as a Tory MP



thankfully Johnson has failed in his joke attempt to get his daddy in to the HoL

[Mibbes Aye]

Loving that he is singling out Harriet Harman, accusing her of "egregious bias".

Harriet 1, no-mark no-seat buffoon 0.

[Smartie]

Loving that he is singling out Harriet Harman, accusing her of "egregious bias".

Harriet 1, no-mark no-seat buffoon 0.

He was just called out beautifully by Anna Soubry on Sky News, who pointed out that the egregiously biased committee - whilst chaired by Harman - contained a majority of conservative MPs.

[greenlex]

https://youtu.be/XTyPJz7DwxI

This is glorious.

[Colr]

Boris has quit

Rats….ships.

[Mibbes Aye]

So, cat amongst the pigeons time. Johnson and Dorries both quit. Johnson's seat was a majority of 7,200-odds last time I think, and a clear target for voting him out. Dorries is sitting on a massive majority in Mid-Beds and it would be a landslide for the Tories to lose that.

Does Johnson have a scheme for parachuting into Mid-Beds? While CCHQ (Tory headquarters) like to exercise control, local Conservative Associations are notoriously bloody-minded and don't like interference from above. Plus there is more support for Johnson in the shires than there is amongst the Tory MPs and certainly amongst Sunak and his team.

I dont know the internal mechanics well enough to find out if it is even viable but the show may not be over quite yet (although surely the Committee's findings hold true even if he transfers??)

[Colr]

But, my God, the damage they have left in their wake!

[BroxburnHibee]

Coward knew he would be voted out.

[Glory Lurker]

This is another leadership election in train.

[gbhibby]

As Ian Crocker would say, What kept you Boris Can they stop his honours list? That's why the giving of honours should be done away with ASAP.

[Colr]

Coward knew he would be voted out.

He as up against a decent candidate anyway next time but I’m guessing the report would have led to a recall.

[JimBHibees]

https://youtu.be/XTyPJz7DwxI

This is glorious.

That is stunningly fantastic :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

So, cat amongst the pigeons time. Johnson and Dorries both quit. Johnson's seat was a majority of 7,200-odds last time I think, and a clear target for voting him out. Dorries is sitting on a massive majority in Mid-Beds and it would be a landslide for the Tories to lose that.

Does Johnson have a scheme for parachuting into Mid-Beds? While CCHQ (Tory headquarters) like to exercise control, local Conservative Associations are notoriously bloody-minded and don't like interference from above. Plus there is more support for Johnson in the shires than there is amongst the Tory MPs and certainly amongst Sunak and his team.

I dont know the internal mechanics well enough to find out if it is even viable but the show may not be over quite yet (although surely the Committee's findings hold true even if he transfers??)

No doubt it won't be the last we will here of him however he will still think job done re Brexit. Incredible the lack of scrutiny over him particularly from Tory media include BBC in that.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Johnson ally MP Nigel Adams resigns with immediate effect, another by-election beckons

[Lendo]

Johnson ally MP Nigel Adams resigns with immediate effect, another by-election beckons

At this rate they’ll lose their majority without us even needing a General Election.

[Moulin Yarns]

At this rate they’ll lose their majority without us even needing a General Election.

62 at the moment I think.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Watching some of the tory cling-ons on the news earlier saying that Boris never broke any rules or the ministerial code and doing so with a straight face really makes me wonder how these people do it. The complete lack of scruples or any sense of social consciousness in British politics is alarming. But we just seem to accept it as the norm these days.

[Kato]

Watching some of the tory cling-ons on the news earlier saying that Boris never broke any rules or the ministerial code and doing so with a straight face really makes me wonder how these people do it. The complete lack of scruples or any sense of social consciousness in British politics is alarming. But we just seem to accept it as the norm these days.They've been paid well to tell those lies, that's the perspective that makes sense. The whole tory front bench lied for Johnson over the last few years. Some stabbed him in the back and are now sticking up for him. Feral greed.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

Diddums, get the money back from that thing :agree:



https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347428700_3548916402064283_6688032179820507770_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Yu_F1x_aAEsAX-rE08A&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfD8pv_eg_VVedl30UB7uQwr5ki35TstCCvekZMiXfza Aw&oe=648A06F2

[marinello59]

Johnson ally MP Nigel Adams resigns with immediate effect, another by-election beckons

An acknowledgement that the next general election is already lost so they may as well start the new leadership election now.

[Kato]

An acknowledgement that the next general election is already lost so they may as well start the new leadership election now.Might be a split in the party.

The National Conservatism Party registered to take part in UK elections in the last week. Probably have way more cash than the rouble rich Tories.

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1667550824958926849?t=YiKHY4P9owO_G0YEaZdo2g&s=09

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[TrumpIsAPeado]

An acknowledgement that the next general election is already lost so they may as well start the new leadership election now.

An acknowledgement that they'll be quite happy with Keir Starmer in place.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Grant Schapps is more slippery than and eel in fairy liquid. Makes Michael Gove look like a balanced and principled politician. If interviewers have any real desire to probe exactly how Cabinet Members interperet Boris Johnson's actions, they have to block the diversion to the five promises and stop the boats.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Grant Schapps is more slippery than and eel in fairy liquid. Makes Michael Gove look like a balanced and principled politician. If interviewers have any real desire to probe exactly how Cabinet Members interperet Boris Johnson's actions, they have to block the diversion to the five promises and stop the boats.

Will be interesting to see what his new 5th name will be when he tries to squirm his way back in again.

[Kato]

Will be interesting to see what his new 5th name will be when he tries to squirm his way back in again.https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1667833228361695232?t=mhElpmgsvpad3zFPF5FDtA&s=19


Bare faced. Every day, huge porkers spill from their mouths.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Some interesting discussion being had as to what this young former special adviser to Johnson has done to warrant her elevation in his resignation honours list. She has been made a life peer at the tender age of just 30 (the youngest life peer ever, I believe). Her career would appear to be somewhat lacking in achievements. So the question is, what has she done to merit being made a life peer? She now has the ability to influence legislation across the UK for the rest of her life despite being unelected.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyauYyuWYAAv6nq?format=jpg&name=medium

[Ozyhibby]

Some interesting discussion being had as to what this young former special adviser to Johnson has done to warrant her elevation in his resignation honours list. She has been made a life peer at the tender age of just 30 (the youngest life peer ever, I believe). Her career would appear to be somewhat lacking in achievements. So the question is, what has she done to merit being made a life peer? She now has the ability to influence legislation across the UK for the rest of her life despite being unelected.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyauYyuWYAAv6nq?format=jpg&name=medium

Know your place sunshine.[emoji6]
What’s the chances Starmer follows through on his promise to get rid of the Lords?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

His hairdresser got an OBE. What for?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyamiZnWIAMtbjY?format=jpg&name=medium

[McSwanky]

His hairdresser got an OBE. What for?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyamiZnWIAMtbjY?format=jpg&name=mediumHe has a hairdresser??

Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk

[Kato]

His hairdresser got an OBE. What for?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyamiZnWIAMtbjY?format=jpg&name=mediumIt's his idea of a joke. Saying everything seems to be.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

This call to BBC "Any Answers" was referenced in the Campbell/Stewart podcast "The Rest is Politics".
It's from a woman who lost her daughter during Covid, and it's a reminder of just how important the Covid inquiry will be.
Be warned, it's hard to listen to.

https://twitter.com/realtoryparty/status/1668273475784409090?s=20

[grunt]

Brief word on Johnson from today's FT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fye8X-PWwAA_wsJ?format=png&name=900x900

[Jones28]

This call to BBC "Any Answers" was referenced in the Campbell/Stewart podcast "The Rest is Politics".
It's from a woman who lost her daughter during Covid, and it's a reminder of just how important the Covid inquiry will be.
Be warned, it's hard to listen to.

https://twitter.com/realtoryparty/status/1668273475784409090?s=20

Wow. Things like this should be played out at the enquiry.

Just awful.

Never let these ****ers forget.

[Bristolhibby]

Wow. Things like this should be played out at the enquiry.

Just awful.

Never let these ****ers forget.

Jesus. A very personal situation.

Frankly if that was my child, I would have just gone. ****** the law in that instance.

A parent knows when things aren’t right.

J

[grunt]

Mea culpa?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FygZGN2aQAAhY48?format=png&name=900x900

[JimBHibees]

Mea culpa?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FygZGN2aQAAhY48?format=png&name=900x900

Is that genuine?

[JimBHibees]

Some interesting discussion being had as to what this young former special adviser to Johnson has done to warrant her elevation in his resignation honours list. She has been made a life peer at the tender age of just 30 (the youngest life peer ever, I believe). Her career would appear to be somewhat lacking in achievements. So the question is, what has she done to merit being made a life peer? She now has the ability to influence legislation across the UK for the rest of her life despite being unelected.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyauYyuWYAAv6nq?format=jpg&name=medium

Absolutely bizarre. What a country. Terrible voting system corrupt non elected house dominated by public school types and bizarre worship of a dysfunctional royal family.

[grunt]

Is that genuine?Would appear to be.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FygmbQhagAQAQga?format=jpg&name=medium

[cabbageandribs1875]

Times Live Poll today apparently

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353838986_6374213929302051_3761081290199633702_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=dfB4BVE25bYAX8ZIf4C&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBjdHPMqx1D4Ty-lyHyUvukB79Mmlj8efPX-4uWgMEv7w&oe=648D567F

[Hibbyradge]

Times Live Poll today apparently

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353838986_6374213929302051_3761081290199633702_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=dfB4BVE25bYAX8ZIf4C&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBjdHPMqx1D4Ty-lyHyUvukB79Mmlj8efPX-4uWgMEv7w&oe=648D567F

I find that very hard to believe.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I find that very hard to believe.


i don't subscribe to the times but it's a huge big long article that i read and that was a screenshot but i found one from march in the independent/others just to give a gauge of feeling about the old swine getting honoured

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stanley-johnson-knighthood-boris-poll-b2302506.html

Exclusive polling for The Independent by Savanta ComRes found nearly two-thirds (65 per cent) thought the elder Mr Johnson (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fiona-bruce-bbc-stanley-johnson-question-time-b2299772.html), a Tory campaigner and former MEP, should not be made a sir in his son’s resignation honours list.

The former prime minister once again brought the honours system (https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/politics-explained/boris-johnson-honours-how-list-approved-when-b2298248.html) into question last week after reports that he was considering a gong for his father (https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/uk-news/boris-johnson-stanley-knighthood-honours-b2294862.html). Almost 250,000 have signed The Independent’s petition (https://www.change.org/p/rishi-sunak-should-block-boris-johnson-s-plan-to-give-an-honour-to-his-father)calling for Rishi Sunak to block Mr Johnson’s move.

[cabbageandribs1875]

so, turns out Johnsons head groupie hasn't officially resigned yet

Nadine Dorries keeps party waiting on by-election - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65898515)

But while she keeps her party waiting, the capacity for mischief exists.



the compulsive liar is still hanging around Boris Johnson sends last-ditch letter to Partygate inquiry - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65897514)

"They have still not produced a shred of evidence that I knowingly or recklessly misled the Commons," he said, insisting "I did not lie".



that'll be a first

[Jones28]

Times Live Poll today apparently

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353838986_6374213929302051_3761081290199633702_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=dfB4BVE25bYAX8ZIf4C&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBjdHPMqx1D4Ty-lyHyUvukB79Mmlj8efPX-4uWgMEv7w&oe=648D567F

I still want to meet some of that two percent, just for fun.

[Hibbyradge]

i don't subscribe to the times but it's a huge big long article that i read and that was a screenshot but i found one from march in the independent/others just to give a gauge of feeling about the old swine getting honoured

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stanley-johnson-knighthood-boris-poll-b2302506.html

Exclusive polling for The Independent by Savanta ComRes found nearly two-thirds (65 per cent) thought the elder Mr Johnson (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fiona-bruce-bbc-stanley-johnson-question-time-b2299772.html), a Tory campaigner and former MEP, should not be made a sir in his son’s resignation honours list.

The former prime minister once again brought the honours system (https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/politics-explained/boris-johnson-honours-how-list-approved-when-b2298248.html) into question last week after reports that he was considering a gong for his father (https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/uk-news/boris-johnson-stanley-knighthood-honours-b2294862.html). Almost 250,000 have signed The Independent’s petition (https://www.change.org/p/rishi-sunak-should-block-boris-johnson-s-plan-to-give-an-honour-to-his-father)calling for Rishi Sunak to block Mr Johnson’s move.

Yeah, I completely misread it. :doh:

[cabbageandribs1875]

lol :greengrin or rather ha ha

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347393088_3423510511193776_7891355018591729986_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=60YByFDrVHgAX_wl1M_&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD_zfhPhpB9ha0rx2x3uBJtsuMMmWgsfuH6U0d-knz1KA&oe=648EA6D5

[grunt]

But he got Brexit done!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FypluFoXsAUbSgl?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FypnLgSXoAIdUwk?format=png&name=small

[Jack]

I can't believe there's only one post about the liars report. Regular posters must be wading through the 30,000 words as I type 😆

The report's key findings [courtesy of ITV]

Boris Johnson was disingenuous and misled MPs several times with his denials over pandemic gatherings at Number 10 Downing Street

Mr Johnson committed "repeated" contempts of Parliament, which were made "all the more serious" because they were committed by the "most senior member of the government"

The recommended sanction would have been a 90-day suspension from Parliament, now unable to be imposed after Mr Johnson's resignation on Friday

The MPs also recommended that Mr Johnson is not given a former member's pass, which would ban access to the parliamentary estate in Westminster

The committee found Mr Johnson committed further contempts by undermining the democratic processes of the Commons and being "complicit in the campaign of abuse and attempted intimidation of the committee."

[Jack]

... and just bare in mind that's one tory on one subject. There's lots of other similar torys and loads of other subjects!

[DaveF]

Muppets will still back him no matter what. I see some MPs are already saying they won't vote for it, the whole thing is a lie (and whatever other Trump style garbage they can get out there) so I wonder if the Commons will vote it through.

[grunt]

This is why it matters

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FypzmlmXwAY19qT?format=jpg&name=medium

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I can't believe there's only one post about the liars report.

Because it doesn't tell us anything that we don't already know. We all know the sun is hot, the grass is green and Boris Johnson is a liar.

[grunt]

No 10 - a pantomime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyp4n8PWYAIRw2d?format=jpg&name=medium

[BroxburnHibee]

It's ******* depressing watching these charlatans lining up with their pre-written responses ready to defend him

[Hibbyradge]

It's ******* depressing watching these charlatans lining up with their pre-written responses ready to defend him

What?

Haven't you been to a party that you didn't know was a party?

[Jack]

It's ******* depressing watching these charlatans lining up with their pre-written responses ready to defend him

You don't really expect the likes of Sir Fabricate to compose and deliver even a short speech from his own head on his own?

[DaveF]

A comment from the BBC phone in. No wonder the country is ****ed when idiots like this roam our streets.

"However, Jen in Whitley Bay is a Johnson supporter.

"I think it's a big stitch up. I'm so annoyed about it because they're all liars, I'm sure they are, apart from him.

"They've really, really gunned him down, I'm really so upset about it. I feel so sorry for Boris, they just want him out."

She added that she thinks Johnson did a really good job as prime minister"

[Kato]

A comment from the BBC phone in. No wonder the country is ****ed when idiots like this roam our streets.

"However, Jen in Whitley Bay is a Johnson supporter.

"I think it's a big stitch up. I'm so annoyed about it because they're all liars, I'm sure they are, apart from him.

"They've really, really gunned him down, I'm really so upset about it. I feel so sorry for Boris, they just want him out."

She added that she thinks Johnson did a really good job as prime minister"Not too long ago the BBC would have ignored cranks like this.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[BroxburnHibee]

Not too long ago the BBC would have ignored cranks like this.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

BBC has been completely infiltrated by the same cranks

[Jones28]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukVJj4kpf2k

This is what some of his constituents make of him.

At least the majority thinks hes a tosser.

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fypr1uyWwAAdbg3?format=jpg&name=medium

[Mibbes Aye]

What?

Haven't you been to a party that you didn't know was a party?

I did once, it wasn’t like any sort of party I had been to before.

Then I realised it was because there ain’t no party like a S Club Party.

True story that.

[cabbageandribs1875]

todays times live poll

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354217423_6381563451900432_1516948599080800942_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=2irurL7DzO8AX8CYywW&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB31raoUiYVhsGGYxl68hz-3c6eHfizpXt-N3SdpmNYsw&oe=648FDC9F

[cabbageandribs1875]

she's really not taking that rejection well at all

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353861437_10231710894977866_1614017339148230822_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Xhhfda5lLiEAX_zdpGS&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDVIMIVCgPlYGIsow7dQ2Wj2rcGJs7antWMkX508qtw 5g&oe=64914279

[Bostonhibby]

she's really not taking that rejection well at all

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353861437_10231710894977866_1614017339148230822_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Xhhfda5lLiEAX_zdpGS&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDVIMIVCgPlYGIsow7dQ2Wj2rcGJs7antWMkX508qtw 5g&oe=64914279Spiteful person lashing out in all directions with lightly veiled threats. If I was Bozo I'd be concerned about this unhealthy looking obsession.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

I heard on the radio that between him and Truss they will get £25M in pensions and further PM salary etc. Meanwhile there were people fined thousands for having parties during lockdown while the man in charge did worse than any of them got a token fine and earned millions thereafter without having to lift a finger.

[JimBHibees]

A comment from the BBC phone in. No wonder the country is ****ed when idiots like this roam our streets.

"However, Jen in Whitley Bay is a Johnson supporter.

"I think it's a big stitch up. I'm so annoyed about it because they're all liars, I'm sure they are, apart from him.

"They've really, really gunned him down, I'm really so upset about it. I feel so sorry for Boris, they just want him out."

She added that she thinks Johnson did a really good job as prime minister"

Fake news. Absolutely incredible

He quite simply should be jailed.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354429024_10231716612560802_6052168724797375780_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FJRDurefR7EAX-oUcKU&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCRT7wxresgvZqwr4KF0g63iPNO18BXXNUIZnF1671o aA&oe=64913B4B

[Mibbes Aye]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354429024_10231716612560802_6052168724797375780_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FJRDurefR7EAX-oUcKU&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCRT7wxresgvZqwr4KF0g63iPNO18BXXNUIZnF1671o aA&oe=64913B4B

The worst of it is he had been sacked twice before for lying, before he even got close to No.10. He was a known, proven liar.

But loads of people were happy to drink the Kool-Aid and there was all that sickening nonsense by commentators about how he was a bit of a rogue and voters 'proced that in'. Well, we are all paying a price now and no doubt will for years to come.

He's not some latter-day Churchill, or some figure of Greek tragedy, undone by the Gods. He is simply a low-rent chancer with no morals, who has lied repeatedly to boost himself and his career. Starmer summed it up back in 2021 - Johnson is a trivial man. He just managed to con his way to a position he was utterly incapable of holding.

[Ozyhibby]

The worst of it is he had been sacked twice before for lying, before he even got close to No.10. He was a known, proven liar.

But loads of people were happy to drink the Kool-Aid and there was all that sickening nonsense by commentators about how he was a bit of a rogue and voters 'proced that in'. Well, we are all paying a price now and no doubt will for years to come.

He's not some latter-day Churchill, or some figure of Greek tragedy, undone by the Gods. He is simply a low-rent chancer with no morals, who has lied repeatedly to boost himself and his career. Starmer summed it up back in 2021 - Johnson is a trivial man. He just managed to con his way to a position he was utterly incapable of holding.

I don’t blame the press to be honest. We all knew about Johnson. Some just ignored it and voted for him anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

I don’t blame the press to be honest. We all knew about Johnson. Some just ignored it and voted for him anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:agree:

[TrumpIsAPeado]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354429024_10231716612560802_6052168724797375780_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FJRDurefR7EAX-oUcKU&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCRT7wxresgvZqwr4KF0g63iPNO18BXXNUIZnF1671o aA&oe=64913B4B

Because that's how journalists and media operate under the control of Government on this island. Could you imagine if there was a chilcot inquiry during the illegal invasion of Iraq? Or if victims were actually given a voice when Jimmy Savile was still around doing his thing?

For the purpose of 'appearing' fair and balanced. The media hold politicians and high profile figures to account when it's already too late. So people give them a pat on the back for it and go back to thinking that the media is fair and balanced.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i had a squint at the Daily Mail online last night and was astonished to see all their different columnists insisting Johnson was "stitched up" and not so much a kangaroo court but a "lynch mob" then on my newsfeed thingy today there's an i article saying Johnson has started a new job as a, wait for it... Daily Mail columnist. :rolleyes: most will agree it's probably a very good fit

[McSwanky]

i had a squint at the Daily Mail online last night and was astonished to see all their different columnists insisting Johnson was "stitched up" and not so much a kangaroo court but a "lynch mob" then on my newsfeed thingy today there's an i article saying Johnson has started a new job as a, wait for it... Daily Mail columnist. :rolleyes: most will agree it's probably a very good fit

Surprise surprise.

[Hibrandenburg]

I don’t blame the press to be honest. We all knew about Johnson. Some just ignored it and voted for him anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:greengrin

[s.a.m]

The worst of it is he had been sacked twice before for lying, before he even got close to No.10. He was a known, proven liar.

But loads of people were happy to drink the Kool-Aid and there was all that sickening nonsense by commentators about how he was a bit of a rogue and voters 'proced that in'. Well, we are all paying a price now and no doubt will for years to come.

He's not some latter-day Churchill, or some figure of Greek tragedy, undone by the Gods. He is simply a low-rent chancer with no morals, who has lied repeatedly to boost himself and his career. Starmer summed it up back in 2021 - Johnson is a trivial man. He just managed to con his way to a position he was utterly incapable of holding.

Indeed, and it was excruciating to watch in real time. Starmer's quote sums him up, as did Matthew Parris around the time he got the PM job: "A shallow opportunist, with a mild talent for entertainment," ... along with the countless, damning assessments we all heard at the time from the kind of conservative establishment figures you would expect to support him, who said that the affable but erudite clown schtick is an act, with variations of him being a lazy, untrustworthy, extraordinarily selfish and often spiteful individual. That was people on his own side, and we were well warned.

Edit: and another thing :greengrin Apparently he's not even called freakin' Boris by anyone who knows him! They call him Alex. He's a malign mirage.

[grunt]

https://t.co/HSGbkbaMQF

Rishi Sunak hands £1.6 billion contract to an Australian travel firm to provide prison barges for asylum seekers. Contract awarded without any competition to a company previously heavily criticised for handling of Covid quarantine hotels and travel tests.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65930008?at_link_type=web_link&at_format=link&at_link_id=5DD0FC16-0C6D-11EE-B2C0-A307EDABB293&at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned&at_ptr_name=twitter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

https://t.co/HSGbkbaMQF

Rishi Sunak hands £1.6 billion contract to an Australian travel firm to provide prison barges for asylum seekers. Contract awarded without any competition to a company previously heavily criticised for handling of Covid quarantine hotels and travel tests.

De ja vu.

Apparently this is the same company, or at least one of them morphing through the ages, that "won the contract" to take the convicted criminals to the prison colony that was Australia.

[Skol]

I don’t blame the press to be honest. We all knew about Johnson. Some just ignored it and voted for him anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I find hard to understand. Ok he maybe comes across as a good bloke down the pub. But it was clear to anyone paying attention That he was a liar and a cheat. Scotland by and large had his number. Why on earth did England overlook this

[Ozyhibby]

This is what I find hard to understand. Ok he maybe comes across as a good bloke down the pub. But it was clear to anyone paying attention That he was a liar and a cheat. Scotland by and large had his number. Why on earth did England overlook this

Sometimes we just want different things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

This is what I find hard to understand. Ok he maybe comes across as a good bloke down the pub. But it was clear to anyone paying attention That he was a liar and a cheat. Scotland by and large had his number. Why on earth did England overlook this

They didn't, they were shown someone who appeared to mirror their wishes.

[Skol]

They didn't, they were shown someone who appeared to mirror their wishes.

I am not sure that is quite right. Either way though the fools have had an impact on the futures of all of us.

[Kato]

I am not sure that is quite right. Either way though the fools have had an impact on the futures of all of us.Yes, foolish UK govt. Luckily for Scotland when dealing with us they always play with a straight bat. According to the SNP haters on here at least.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Lancs Harp]

Polticians lie. Its a requisite of the job. Get over it.

[JimBHibees]

This is what I find hard to understand. Ok he maybe comes across as a good bloke down the pub. But it was clear to anyone paying attention That he was a liar and a cheat. Scotland by and large had his number. Why on earth did England overlook this

The last thing about Johnson I would think would be a good bloke down the pub.

[Mibbes Aye]

Yes, foolish UK govt. Luckily for Scotland when dealing with us they always play with a straight bat. According to the SNP haters on here at least.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Everything has always got to be so binary with you, doesn't it?

Criticise the SNP = SNP haters
SNP haters = Tory supporters

Yet the SNP is the party half of whom's members wanted a low-tax, small government, anti-single mother, anti-gay marriage leader.

There's a real lack of perspective going on there. It's no wonder a lot of SNP members and posters come across as so angry. They are fighting the cognitive dissonance in their own heads.

I don't know that there's that many people who hate the SNP. Some people pity them, some people mock them. With me it's mostly frustration that they are so bloody incompetent at running the country because that's a sideshow to their grievance agenda. Scotland deserves better.

[Ozyhibby]

Yet the SNP is the party half of whom's members wanted a low-tax, small government, anti-single mother, anti-gay marriage leader.



I hope you have that saved on your phone to save you typing it in every answer you give. Maybe you could add it to your profile.[emoji6][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348474729_643817607789763_4300694825369620228_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=b5BkqQXWSikAX9AdrsH&_nc_oc=AQld72TDFsZLwiAOFTxUWbeiJXLHpgLtFNfPbbsWRsD _4NZkyCkYaxkMLYkNW4ByQiw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBtMAMrzN4CWx64tS5Mj933N-vdzCDhnCdNwN0ORqc_gw&oe=6492952C

[Mibbes Aye]

I hope you have that saved on your phone to save you typing it in every answer you give. Maybe you could add it to your profile.[emoji6][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You will need to show me how. You know, like you used to do with "the best health service in the UK" - until you were achallenged about whether you could back that up with facts :greengrin

[TrumpIsAPeado]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348474729_643817607789763_4300694825369620228_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=b5BkqQXWSikAX9AdrsH&_nc_oc=AQld72TDFsZLwiAOFTxUWbeiJXLHpgLtFNfPbbsWRsD _4NZkyCkYaxkMLYkNW4ByQiw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBtMAMrzN4CWx64tS5Mj933N-vdzCDhnCdNwN0ORqc_gw&oe=6492952C

But at least he wasn't that Jeremy Corbyn who would obviously have been far worse, based on absolutely nothing at all.

https://i.ibb.co/7X1qdSH/lordcnto.png

[archie]

This is what I find hard to understand. Ok he maybe comes across as a good bloke down the pub. But it was clear to anyone paying attention That he was a liar and a cheat. Scotland by and large had his number. Why on earth did England overlook this

I think it was a mix of things. This has been the time of the 'anti-politicians' - people who present themselves as being anti-establishment while being very much part of it.People are fed up of politicians and the political establishment.

We've also got much more entrenched tribalism. Defend the team at all costs, other views are the enemy and there being no room for debate. We've also had a demonisation of the media as a whole. Some of the criticism of the media is justified, but there is a strong imperative for tribal leaders to want to be the only source of truth. So news reporting can be dismissed without any consideration of what the report actually says. Trump mastered that, but you see it with Johnson and you see it here.

We have got into a place where apparently simple choices are presented as the only solution. Brexit is a prime example. A weaponised campaign with little consideration of how to implement or the longer term implications. But equally saying reverse Brexit without a clear vision as to how we would do that falls into the same trap.

I just wish we could focus on the issues that actually affect people like health, housing, employment, social care, education and so on rather than the nonsense we've had for the last while.

[grunt]

We have got into a place where apparently simple choices are presented as the only solution. Brexit is a prime example. A weaponised campaign with little consideration of how to implement or the longer term implications. But equally saying reverse Brexit without a clear vision as to how we would do that falls into the same trap.
Huh?

[archie]

Huh?

There would need to be a clear plan to re-engage with the EU. I can't see that we would be able to rejoin on the same terms. In the light of that there would need to be a clear articulation of the process and requirements we would have to adhere to. Membership of the Euro is a critical one, but there are many others.

[Jack]

There would need to be a clear plan to re-engage with the EU. I can't see that we would be able to rejoin on the same terms. In the light of that there would need to be a clear articulation of the process and requirements we would have to adhere to. Membership of the Euro is a critical one, but there are many others.

Yeah we left as one of the richest countries. We'd be joining as one of the poorer countries.

[archie]

Yeah we left as one of the richest countries. We'd be joining as one of the poorer countries.

We wouldn't, but what about how we manage a process of reengagement?

[Jack]

We wouldn't, but what about how we manage a process of reengagement?

Torys aren't going to do it.

What are Labour plans?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Torys aren't going to do it.

What are Labour plans?

Making the unworkable "work". Labour and the tories have to appease their joint donors.

[grunt]

There would need to be a clear plan to re-engage with the EU. I can't see that we would be able to rejoin on the same terms. In the light of that there would need to be a clear articulation of the process and requirements we would have to adhere to. Membership of the Euro is a critical one, but there are many others.
Plan:

1. Commit to rejoining the EU.
2. Work out the details later.

[Ozyhibby]

There would need to be a clear plan to re-engage with the EU. I can't see that we would be able to rejoin on the same terms. In the light of that there would need to be a clear articulation of the process and requirements we would have to adhere to. Membership of the Euro is a critical one, but there are many others.

Which terms would we be missing out on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

Plan:

1. Win the General Election
2. Change the conversation about the EU
2. Commit to rejoining it
3. Work out the details later

ftfy

Your plan would wreck the chances of the most important step, winning power.

[Hibbyradge]

Which terms would we be missing out on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We'd likely have to commit to joining the Euro at some unspecified point in time.

That's a prospect which is going to be easily accepted by the electorate. Plenty ground preparing will need to be done before committing to rejoin.

[grunt]

ftfy

Your plan would wreck the chances of the most important step, winning power.If we're talking about Labour, then personally I'd prefer them to be honest when campaigning and address the conversation about the EU now. If you're saying that Labour can't win without hiding their intentions about Europe, then that's not a party I'd support. (Not that I would anyway).

But this is all moot, I want an independent Scotland in the EU.

[archie]

Plan:

1. Commit to rejoining the EU.
2. Work out the details later.

I'd love to be a car salesman when you walked into the showroom...

[archie]

Which terms would we be missing out on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Euro commitment, funding rebates, Schengen etc

[archie]

Making the unworkable "work". Labour and the tories have to appease their joint donors.

????

[archie]

Torys aren't going to do it.

What are Labour plans?

Thoughtful LSE analysis https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/keir-starmer-brexit/

[Ozyhibby]

Euro commitment, funding rebates, Schengen etc

Schengen opt out would likely survive but I could live with all three of those. Sign me up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Since90+2]

Long term the pound will be a failed currency, I'd view joining the Euro as a bonus rather than a negative.

[grunt]

I'd love to be a car salesman when you walked into the showroom...If you think that rejoining the EU is in any way akin to buying a car then there really is no hope for you.

[Ozyhibby]

Long term the pound will be a failed currency, I'd view joining the Euro as a bonus rather than a negative.

If we had been in from the start we would be richer now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

Long term the pound will be a failed currency, I'd view joining the Euro as a bonus rather than a negative.

I agree, but a huge percentage of the elecorate wouldn't.

[Jack]

Thoughtful LSE analysis https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/keir-starmer-brexit/

Thoughtful but doesn't actually say anything.

[Since90+2]

I agree, but a huge percentage of the elecorate wouldn't.

I think those are the types who'd never consider rejoining anyway. Although I do agree with the general point I don't think it would be a huge percentage, it may be a significant minority admittedly.

[Hibrandenburg]

I agree, but a huge percentage of the elecorate wouldn't.

A large part of the electorate were petrified of decimalisation, I'm glad we had a government at the time who couldn't give a farthing about popular opinion and instead showed leadership by pushing it through. The electorate aren't always right as we've seen time and time again.

[Mibbes Aye]

Thoughtful but doesn't actually say anything.

It actually does say one really important thing from the very start. I had started a half-hearted reply to Ozyhibby’s post about the Euro, making this same point, but left it because I was enjoying watching the cricket too much :greengrin.

There is a massive truth that never gets acknowledged here, which is that for the length of our time in the EEC and the EU, Britain fought tooth and nail for all sorts of exemptions, opt-outs and special treatments. And we often got our way because we were and are a big economy in European terms.

Going back in, the EU have started to get used to living without us. They have got used to not having us scrapping for special treatment. I think they would still like the extra heft that our economy would provide but they don’t need it. It’s a sellers’ market and we are the buyer.

And that takes us to the crux of the matter. Britain retained control (in as much as any nation state can) of monetary policy while in the EU. In any re-entry negotiations, the EU would be perfectly entitled and certainly likely to insist on a different deal, where we transferred a lot of control over monetary policy. We would, certainly if we took the Euro, need to sign up to the financial stability protocols - essentially the agreements by which countries like Greece were bailed out with, a few years back. That in turn means our fiscal policy would be a function of those commitments.

So, Shona Robison and Jeremy Hunt would take a massive pay cut because their jobs would involve far less setting of policy. The policy they would implement would be far more Eurocentric. Christine Lagarde and whoever’s turn it was in the European Commission to head up the appropriate office would become much bigger players in our economy.

Back in the early 2000s, when the Euro debate was raging, that was all true. I was happy to go with it, sovereignty shouldn’t be thought of as irrevocable. The issue now is that re-entry would not be on the same terms as those we had when we left and while pragmatically, the EU would probably want us, it doesn’t actually need us.

We dont just have to persuade Brexit voters to change their view, we have to persuade the EU we are worth the hassle. And the terms of re-entry would be markedly different from the “in but with opt-outs” arrangement we had, I’m convinced of that.

I think it is worth it, but I’m under no illusions that having thrown our collective toys out the cot, with the Leave vote, the toys won’t just be handed back to us because we want them now. I was going to say no disrespect to Brexit voters with that comparison but it is hard!

[wookie70]

It actually does say one really important thing from the very start. I had started a half-hearted reply to Ozyhibby’s post about the Euro, making this same point, but left it because I was enjoying watching the cricket too much :greengrin.

There is a massive truth that never gets acknowledged here, which is that for the length of our time in the EEC and the EU, Britain fought tooth and nail for all sorts of exemptions, opt-outs and special treatments. And we often got our way because we were and are a big economy in European terms.

Going back in, the EU have started to get used to living without us. They have got used to not having us scrapping for special treatment. I think they would still like the extra heft that our economy would provide but they don’t need it. It’s a sellers’ market and we are the buyer.

And that takes us to the crux of the matter. Britain retained control (in as much as any nation state can) of monetary policy while in the EU. In any re-entry negotiations, the EU would be perfectly entitled and certainly likely to insist on a different deal, where we transferred a lot of control over monetary policy. We would, certainly if we took the Euro, need to sign up to the financial stability protocols - essentially the agreements by which countries like Greece were bailed out with, a few years back. That in turn means our fiscal policy would be a function of those commitments.

So, Shona Robison and Jeremy Hunt would take a massive pay cut because their jobs would involve far less setting of policy. The policy they would implement would be far more Eurocentric. Christine Lagarde and whoever’s turn it was in the European Commission to head up the appropriate office would become much bigger players in our economy.

Back in the early 2000s, when the Euro debate was raging, that was all true. I was happy to go with it, sovereignty shouldn’t be thought of as irrevocable. The issue now is that re-entry would not be on the same terms as those we had when we left and while pragmatically, the EU would probably want us, it doesn’t actually need us.

We dont just have to persuade Brexit voters to change their view, we have to persuade the EU we are worth the hassle. And the terms of re-entry would be markedly different from the “in but with opt-outs” arrangement we had, I’m convinced of that.

I think it is worth it, but I’m under no illusions that having thrown our collective toys out the cot, with the Leave vote, the toys won’t just be handed back to us because we want them now. I was going to say no disrespect to Brexit voters with that comparison but it is hard!

I was remain in the referendum but it would be a far harder choice when choosing between stay out and re-enter under far worse terms than we enjoyed previously. The damage is done and will not be repaired in the lifetimes of most of the little Englanders that voted for it. Never mind a failed currency I think we are well on our way to being a part of a failed Nation, one build on punishing workers and where wealth not endeavour or innovation is the quality most valued in the economy.

[grunt]

I was remain in the referendum but it would be a far harder choice when choosing between stay out and re-enter under far worse terms than we enjoyed previously. The damage is done and will not be repaired in the lifetimes of most of the little Englanders that voted for it. Never mind a failed currency I think we are well on our way to being a part of a failed Nation, one build on punishing workers and where wealth not endeavour or innovation is the quality most valued in the economy.The worse the damage gets the easier the decision to rejoin becomes. And please note, the damage is not "done". It will get worse the longer we stay out.

[Kato]

Everything has always got to be so binary with you, doesn't it?

Criticise the SNP = SNP haters
SNP haters = Tory supporters

Yet the SNP is the party half of whom's members wanted a low-tax, small government, anti-single mother, anti-gay marriage leader.

There's a real lack of perspective going on there. It's no wonder a lot of SNP members and posters come across as so angry. They are fighting the cognitive dissonance in their own heads.

I don't know that there's that many people who hate the SNP. Some people pity them, some people mock them. With me it's mostly frustration that they are so bloody incompetent at running the country because that's a sideshow to their grievance agenda. Scotland deserves better.

Really? I was using "haters" in the vernacular and don't equate snp-"haters" with Tories.

I'm quite happy with the post and won't take any criticism from someone who sees a stand up comedian ribbing Scots as the same as a member of Parliament trying to impress her fellow mps with racist rhetoric.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I was remain in the referendum but it would be a far harder choice when choosing between stay out and re-enter under far worse terms than we enjoyed previously. The damage is done and will not be repaired in the lifetimes of most of the little Englanders that voted for it. Never mind a failed currency I think we are well on our way to being a part of a failed Nation, one build on punishing workers and where wealth not endeavour or innovation is the quality most valued in the economy.

Most of the opt outs we had were not for the benefit of ordinary people. I don’t see it as worse terms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Euro commitment, funding rebates, Schengen etc

Why are we so keen to avoid taking the euro? Who honestly gives a **** about the pound? It’s a dying currency and the Brexit vote was a real blow.

If rejoining the EU meant taking the Euro then sign me up.

[Mibbes Aye]

Really? I was using "haters" in the vernacular and don't equate snp-"haters" with Tories.

I'm quite happy with the post and won't take any criticism from someone who sees a stand up comedian ribbing Scots as the same as a member of Parliament trying to impress her fellow mps with racist rhetoric.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

The 'vernacular'? Really? I didn't know Biggie Smalls survived and was posting on here :greengrin

And as for equating, you said these SNP haters on here stick up for the UK government, so yes, I think you do 'equate' :agree:

More pertinently, the UK government is your government too you know. You talked about Scotland 'dealiing with' them, but I think you are trying to separate out the UK government as an 'other', suggesting there is a uniformity, in opposition, to everyone you deem makes up 'Scotland' - but it doesn't work that way.

[Colr]

What ever happened to that fat Brexit **** Mark Francois?

You couldn’t get the Penfold lookalike off tv at one point then ……nothing.

[archie]

If you think that rejoining the EU is in any way akin to buying a car then there really is no hope for you.

It's just your I'll take whatever you offer rather than any sense of negotiating that gets me.

[marinello59]

It's just your I'll take whatever you offer rather than any sense of negotiating that gets me.

I’m with you on that. I was a firm remainer but recognise we will need to negotiate ourselves back in.I’m looking at that from the point of view of being Independent and it seems utter madness to me some of that would immediately be surrendered to the EU unthinkingly. I’m open to going for a Norway style agreement rather than full membership. It works for them and we need to consider why that is.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1670132962464071684?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Grim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1670132962464071684?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Grim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Utterly repulsive.

It does begin to feel that full on civil war has started in the Tory party too. I doubt it will, but we can only hope it speeds up an election.

[archie]

Long term the pound will be a failed currency, I'd view joining the Euro as a bonus rather than a negative.

What do you think the 'bonus' would be?

[archie]

If we had been in from the start we would be richer now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Care to explain how?

[archie]

It actually does say one really important thing from the very start. I had started a half-hearted reply to Ozyhibby’s post about the Euro, making this same point, but left it because I was enjoying watching the cricket too much :greengrin.

There is a massive truth that never gets acknowledged here, which is that for the length of our time in the EEC and the EU, Britain fought tooth and nail for all sorts of exemptions, opt-outs and special treatments. And we often got our way because we were and are a big economy in European terms.

Going back in, the EU have started to get used to living without us. They have got used to not having us scrapping for special treatment. I think they would still like the extra heft that our economy would provide but they don’t need it. It’s a sellers’ market and we are the buyer.

And that takes us to the crux of the matter. Britain retained control (in as much as any nation state can) of monetary policy while in the EU. In any re-entry negotiations, the EU would be perfectly entitled and certainly likely to insist on a different deal, where we transferred a lot of control over monetary policy. We would, certainly if we took the Euro, need to sign up to the financial stability protocols - essentially the agreements by which countries like Greece were bailed out with, a few years back. That in turn means our fiscal policy would be a function of those commitments.

So, Shona Robison and Jeremy Hunt would take a massive pay cut because their jobs would involve far less setting of policy. The policy they would implement would be far more Eurocentric. Christine Lagarde and whoever’s turn it was in the European Commission to head up the appropriate office would become much bigger players in our economy.

Back in the early 2000s, when the Euro debate was raging, that was all true. I was happy to go with it, sovereignty shouldn’t be thought of as irrevocable. The issue now is that re-entry would not be on the same terms as those we had when we left and while pragmatically, the EU would probably want us, it doesn’t actually need us.

We dont just have to persuade Brexit voters to change their view, we have to persuade the EU we are worth the hassle. And the terms of re-entry would be markedly different from the “in but with opt-outs” arrangement we had, I’m convinced of that.

I think it is worth it, but I’m under no illusions that having thrown our collective toys out the cot, with the Leave vote, the toys won’t just be handed back to us because we want them now. I was going to say no disrespect to Brexit voters with that comparison but it is hard!

I think the EU would like us back - but not at any cost.Aside from the UK being a large, developed economy, the politics of Brexit shook the EU too. The confidence of ever growing European integration was shaken. While in no way like the Brexit campaigners in the UK, there are populist parties in Europe who at least question EU membership. I don't think that there will be any other departures, the rightwards drift in most European countries will, I think pause some elements of the 'European project'. A British rapprochement with the EU would be a sign that Brexit type actions were a mistake. I also think the EU is hyper aware of the NI issue. They would like that resolved, not least because it directly impacts on a member state. But there has to be some price, so I don't for one minute think it would be a straightforward negotiation. But equally, I can't support (and no politician would) Grunt's we'll join on whatever terms and price you tell us approach.

[SteveHFC]

https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1670132962464071684?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Grim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every single one of them in that clip should be prosecuted.

[Kato]

The 'vernacular'? Really? I didn't know Biggie Smalls survived and was posting on here :greengrin

And as for equating, you said these SNP haters on here stick up for the UK government, so yes, I think you do 'equate' :agree:

More pertinently, the UK government is your government too you know. You talked about Scotland 'dealiing with' them, but I think you are trying to separate out the UK government as an 'other', suggesting there is a uniformity, in opposition, to everyone you deem makes up 'Scotland' - but it doesn't work that way.Think what you want really.

Way over my head, the picture your painting in yours.

Biggie Smalls? Very twentieth century, like the Labour Party.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Every single one of them in that clip should be prosecuted.They got an even money chance of being knighted in a post Truss/Bozo honours list as the Met police aren't going anywhere them.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[grunt]

It's just your I'll take whatever you offer rather than any sense of negotiating that gets me.


2. Work out the details later.Work out the details = negotiate. Nowhere did I suggest taking whatever they offer.

[Ozyhibby]

Every single one of them in that clip should be prosecuted.

They’ll be meeting the King soon to get their honours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk