Tories are still lying *******s

[Just_Jimmy]

He's broken the law and he's overseen corruption and the destruction of the British economy and yet 211 still think he's the man for the job...

Astounding.



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[Stairway 2 7]

Will survive until the end of the year now. Inflation should peak in autumn and second gas hike. New person in when its getting better

[weecounty hibby]

Dougie Ross🤔 wonder what he'll do now? Johnson will limp on and continue to cause havoc with his band of sycophantic fascists like Patel and Dorries in tow

[SteveHFC]

Zahawi is a disgrace.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

He is marking time now.

[Glory Lurker]

Will he have a leaving party?

[SHODAN]

I think he'll call a general election and deselect all the rebels.

Don't think he cares if he loses to Starmer or one of his own MPs, just that it doesn't happen.

[Glory Lurker]

The Johnson loyalists lining up on Sky are just taking the mick out of the electorate. Shameful.

[Ryan91]

The Johnson loyalists lining up on Sky are just taking the mick out of the electorate. Shameful.

Par for the course with this government, they've continually taken the electorate for a ride, but there are some out there in the electorate who still think he's doing a good job

[Stairway 2 7]

He's going to try some desperate stuff to cling on. Apparently on Thursday he'll announce housing association tenants will have the right to buy. Will win votes in that group but make the future worse

[Steven79]

Par for the course with this government, they've continually taken the electorate for a ride, but there are some out there in the electorate who still think he's doing a good jobToo many ******g sheep on this Island.

The recent Jubilee proved that...

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[Hiber-nation]

Nobody thinks he'll resign but I wonder if 2 absolute wipe outs in the upcoming by elections might tip him over the edge.

[heretoday]

The Johnson loyalists lining up on Sky are just taking the mick out of the electorate. Shameful.

Their contempt for the public is incredible.

[Scorrie]

He's going to try some desperate stuff to cling on. Apparently on Thursday he'll announce housing association tenants will have the right to buy. Will win votes in that group but make the future worse

That policy will be a disaster and very difficult to implement and cost a fortune. Housing Associations are private sector organizations and I never thought I’d see a Tory government take from the private sector and redistribute to the people!

[Hiber-nation]

Giving an interview now, more blustering pish with that ridiculous grin on his puss.

[Stairway 2 7]

That policy will be a disaster and very difficult to implement and cost a fortune. Housing Associations are private sector organizations and I never thought I’d see a Tory government take from the private sector and redistribute to the people!

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/right-to-buy-extension-announcement-expected-this-week-75936

2.5 million will be eligible

[Northernhibee]

75% of backbenchers voted against him.

They know they’re toast.

[Glory Lurker]

He's going to try some desperate stuff to cling on. Apparently on Thursday he'll announce housing association tenants will have the right to buy. Will win votes in that group but make the future worse

It will be bad, just as selling council houses was. Hopefully the Scottish position is sufficiently devolved that it won't apply up here.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Cutting comments from Sir Roger Gale on the BBC. Essentially, the government will get on with things but he won't see out the year. Ouch...

[Kato]

shame on any individual that votes for that utter cowardly crooked corrupt clown, lets see which ones have a backbone

wonder how many he's called promising them promotionAbout a tenth of those he extorted.

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[Ozyhibby]

That policy will be a disaster and very difficult to implement and cost a fortune. Housing Associations are private sector organizations and I never thought I’d see a Tory government take from the private sector and redistribute to the people!

Who owns housing associations?


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[Hibernia&Alba]

75% of backbenchers voted against him.

They know they’re toast.

Two big by-elections coming up, one a rock solid Tory seat in Devon. If they lose another stronghold seat, the pressure on Johnson will further intensify. All Tory MPs will be looking at their majority and wondering what could happen.

[Scorrie]

Who owns housing associations?


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They are private companies. Their housing is built using government grant but mainly private finance. All of that would have to be unpicked by government if they imposed right to buy. Also this would bring housing associations into the public sector and so all their debt would become public (around 15bn). The government ran a pilot in the west midlands a couple of years ago but there was little take up and proved hugely expensive. That is the reason why even Cameron and Osborne didn’t do it. Also as private organizations, there would be huge legal issues as in essence, their property is being taken off them.

[Stairway 2 7]

Boris to be replaced in 2022, seems a good bet on skybet at 11/8

[Santa Cruz]

They are private companies. Their housing is built using government grant but mainly private finance. All of that would have to be unpicked by government if they imposed right to buy. Also this would bring housing associations into the public sector and so all their debt would become public (around 15bn). The government ran a pilot in the west midlands a couple of years ago but there was little take up and proved hugely expensive. That is the reason why even Cameron and Osborne didn’t do it. Also as private organizations, there would be huge legal issues as in essence, their property is being taken off them.

Thought they were regulated by the Gov? It might have changed and I've not picked up on it though.

[Scorrie]

Thought they were regulated by the Gov? It might have changed and I've not picked up on it though.

Yes they are regulated by the Social Housing Regulator so they have to abide by many standards but they are private organizations that are become Registered Providers of Social Housing. They use private finance as well as government grant to build homes for rent and sale. These homes are often used as security for further finance. You can begin to see the real difficulties a right to buy policy will cause. And this at a time when we need more housing for social rent. The impact on rural and high value areas for those on low incomes needing a home will be huge

[Stairway 2 7]

Yes they are regulated by the Social Housing Regulator so they have to abide by many standards but they are private organizations that are become Registered Providers of Social Housing. They use private finance as well as government grant to build homes for rent and sale. These homes are often used as security for further finance. You can begin to see the real difficulties a right to buy policy will cause. And this at a time when we need more housing for social rent. The impact on rural and high value areas for those on low incomes needing a home will be huge

A mate bought 50% of his house from housing association up here. I guess that's different because it was through them? Also maybe at market price, although I'm not sure

[Santa Cruz]

Yes they are regulated by the Social Housing Regulator so they have to abide by many standards but they are private organizations that are become Registered Providers of Social Housing. They use private finance as well as government grant to build homes for rent and sale. These homes are often used as security for further finance. You can begin to see the real difficulties a right to buy policy will cause. And this at a time when we need more housing for social rent. The impact on rural and high value areas for those on low incomes needing a home will be huge

There's always two sides. There will be HA tenants who will save money through a discounted sale with a more affordable mortgage. If I was in that boat I'd be delighted to finally have a bit more money each month. There's nothing wrong from benefitting from a policy even if you strongly oppose the political party who has implemented the policy imo. Agree with your point about the failure to replace the ex stock with more social newbuild.

[Santa Cruz]

A mate bought 50% of his house from housing association up here. I guess that's different because it was through them? Also maybe at market price, although I'm not sure

That's shared ownership. The H.A. retains 50% and a monthly occupancy fee. The part owner is 100% liable for the property, no assistance from the HA if there are any problems with the property.

[Stairway 2 7]

That's shared ownership. The H.A. retains 50% and a monthly occupancy fee. The part owner is 100% liable for the property, no assistance from the HA if there are any problems with the property.

Think he can buy 100 eventually. I don't mind people getting help to get on property ladder but as long as that money goes to more Social housing. Really hard times for young people looking for rent or a mortgage

[Santa Cruz]

Think he can buy 100 eventually. I don't mind people getting help to get on property ladder but as long as that money goes to more Social housing. Really hard times for young people looking for rent or a mortgage

Yeah they can, each time they increase their share they incur more legal fees. Quite hard to get a mortgage for the share unless you have a substantial deposit. Not the cheapest option sometimes paying both a mortgage and occupancy fee, the amount each H.A charges varies wildly. Yip really hard time for young people.

Sorry, I'm derailing again...just bored and disappointed, we'll get shot of them eventually.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yeah they can, each time they increase their share they incur more legal fees. Quite hard to get a mortgage for the share unless you have a substantial deposit. Not the cheapest option sometimes paying both a mortgage and occupancy fee, the amount each H.A charges varies wildly. Yip really hard time for young people.

Sorry, I'm derailing again...just bored and disappointed, we'll get shot of them eventually.

Only positive is and I'm not really a gambler but I like looking to see the trend, a few bookies now have labour favourites for next election tonight. First time in years they have been. Obviously long to go but...

[hibsbollah]

I’ve found the Lord of the Gammons on Newsnight tonight… I give you…Adam Holloway PM.

[lapsedhibee]

I’ve found the Lord of the Gammons on Newsnight tonight… I give you…Adam Holloway PM.

Given the amount of pish he talked I'd prefer he just stayed an MP, rather than taking over from Johnson.

[Kato]

I’ve found the Lord of the Gammons on Newsnight tonight… I give you…Adam Holloway PM.Its astonishing that they insist the whole thing boils down to "ambushed by a cake." Laying it bare as though that is all that happened and is even the point. You can only think they either button up the back or are aiming this guff at people who do.



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[Kato]

The Belarusian view.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1533907815965806593?t=ZdA53nqA0W_fhjKb5IXb1Q&s=09

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[Stairway 2 7]

The Belarusian view.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1533907815965806593?t=ZdA53nqA0W_fhjKb5IXb1Q&s=09

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That's a pro Ukraine anti lukachenko paper, one of its editors is in jail for being anti Moscow.

Twitter was full of pro Ukrainians defending him yesterday. Partygate looks trivial if there is a genocide going on in your country, but that means f all in the uk. There is no war here so partying when we were protecting each other and lying to parliament is huge.

If he went the next person would also back Ukraine, he needs to go

[Ozyhibby]

That's a pro Ukraine anti lukachenko paper, one of its editors is in jail for being anti Moscow.

Twitter was full of pro Ukrainians defending him yesterday. Partygate looks trivial if there is a genocide going on in your country, but that means f all in the uk. There is no war here so partying when we were protecting each other and lying to parliament is huge.

If he went the next person would also back Ukraine, he needs to go

And Zelensky would automatically become the new PM’s best friend and he would likely never mention Johnson’s name again.


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[Stairway 2 7]

And Zelensky would automatically become the new PM’s best friend and he would likely never mention Johnson’s name again.


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Definitely and understandably

[Northernhibee]

Woke up this morning and although it’s almost certainly the beginning of the end for him, is anyone else absolutely furious about so many elected officials being willing to not only back a liar and a crook but the way in which they’re doing so? Comments about Zelensky “punching the air”, blatant gaslighting about getting big decisions right, the usual comments about cake, certain MPs just flat out trolling on Twitter, one MP on the telly last night claiming that by getting a larger percentage last night compared to in the leadership election that he’s increased his mandate and when asked about Theresa Mays VONC result he then said that he’s not in the business for comparing like for like result.

They were reportedly told last night that Johnson would do the same all over again re: the lockdown parties so they know his apology wasn’t genuine. They still backed him.

They’ve declared open war on decency, public standards and the electorate in recent months. I cannot ****ing wait for them to face the ballot box. They’re the lowest of the low.

[hibsbollah]

Given the amount of pish he talked I'd prefer he just stayed an MP, rather than taking over from Johnson.

:faf: Freudian autocorrect.

He was so viscerally ANGRY while continuing to make ridiculous point after ridiculous point (complaining that the bbc were biased using evidence such as a photo of BJ that made him look like Hannibal Lecter’ when they had used an actual photo of him, not, I dunno, a mocked up BJ in a Russian hat, for example) that if you dislike the Tories you just want to watch more and more of those kind of entitled tantrums.

[hibsbollah]

Why always the ‘lame duck’ metaphor? If a duck was lame couldn’t it just fly and be ok? Wouldn’t a lame frog or mouse be a worse thing?

[ronaldo7]

VONC in the PM will be tabled today in the HOC. whether it will be allowed to be debated is another matter.

[lucky]

Last nights result is great for the U.K. long term as it’s now very likely the Tories will lose the next GE. Short term is a disaster as he is unfit to be an MP never mind the PM

[James310]

He has a point?

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1534066895900618752?t=TOaR11MorQmalSMXdmCNqQ&s=19

"Obviously when a party is tearing itself apart, the best thing for opponents to do is stand aside (and laugh). But it feels slightly striking at this moment of utter chaos in the UK govt that there apparently isn’t much in the way of an independence campaign seeking to capitalise

Maybe it’s coming…but bearing in mind that indyref2 is meant to be not much more than a year away, you’d think Yes supporters might have been hoping for a bit more urgency in terms of campaign machinery whirring to life than a Nicola Sturgeon tweet about democratic deficits"

[lapsedhibee]

He has a point?

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1534066895900618752?t=TOaR11MorQmalSMXdmCNqQ&s=19

"Obviously when a party is tearing itself apart, the best thing for opponents to do is stand aside (and laugh). But it feels slightly striking at this moment of utter chaos in the UK govt that there apparently isn’t much in the way of an independence campaign seeking to capitalise

Maybe it’s coming…but bearing in mind that indyref2 is meant to be not much more than a year away, you’d think Yes supporters might have been hoping for a bit more urgency in terms of campaign machinery whirring to life than a Nicola Sturgeon tweet about democratic deficits"

He does have a point. The same point that BBC Scotland makes in every report they ever do about the SNP, namely that they're no good.

[Ozyhibby]

He has a point?

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1534066895900618752?t=TOaR11MorQmalSMXdmCNqQ&s=19

"Obviously when a party is tearing itself apart, the best thing for opponents to do is stand aside (and laugh). But it feels slightly striking at this moment of utter chaos in the UK govt that there apparently isn’t much in the way of an independence campaign seeking to capitalise

Maybe it’s coming…but bearing in mind that indyref2 is meant to be not much more than a year away, you’d think Yes supporters might have been hoping for a bit more urgency in terms of campaign machinery whirring to life than a Nicola Sturgeon tweet about democratic deficits"

There does appear to be a hold up in bringing a bill before the Scottish Parliament. Not sure what is causing it though and so far the Yes movement is showing patience.
The ups and downs of Johnson’s govt should be what sets the timetable though.


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[James310]

He does have a point. The same point that BBC Scotland makes in every report they ever do about the SNP, namely that they're no good.

This isn't about good or bad government though, this is about the political party. As an aside I rarely see broadcasters running story's about how great a government is and how wonderful they are, unless you live in North Korea or Russia.

[James310]

There does appear to be a hold up in bringing a bill before the Scottish Parliament. Not sure what is causing it though and so far the Yes movement is showing patience.
The ups and downs of Johnson’s govt should be what sets the timetable though.


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I can hazard a guess, it's outside the competency of the Scottish Parliament.

The legal advice is due to be released in the next week, that will shed some light on it.

[ronaldo7]

I can hazard a guess, it's outside the competency of the Scottish Parliament.

The legal advice is due to be released in the next week, that will shed some light on it.

What's this got to do with Tories being lying *******s?

[Mon Dieu4]

Noticed it last night and even more so this morning, you know they are worried when they roll out the Labour/SNP/Lib Dem axis of evil chat

[JeMeSouviens]

He does have a point. The same point that BBC Scotland makes in every report they ever do about the SNP, namely that they're no good.

Reporting Ferries spent upwards of 10 minutes on Johnson's woes last night without a single vox pop from Adrdossan. :confused: What exactly are we paying the licence fee for? :grr:

[hibsbollah]

“What do you think President Zelinskiy will be thinking tonight?” Zahawi added. “He’ll be punching the air because he knows his great ally Boris Johnson will be prime minister tomorrow morning.”

What a total plum.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's crass to use Ukraine fighting for their lives for political gain. Zelensky is at war UK isn't, so lying to parliament is a big deal here. Zelensky will be greatful but the next leader would do the exact same.

Matthew Garrahan ft
·
2h
Volodymyr Zelensky to
@khalafroula
on Boris Johnson. "I am very happy . He is a true friend of Ukraine...I am glad we have not lost a very important ally" #FTGlobalBoardroom

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/ec3a0de07a59dab0109249cf72e4fd36.jpg

Bet we still get sent the bill though. [emoji35]


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[grunt]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/ec3a0de07a59dab0109249cf72e4fd36.jpg

Bet we still get sent the bill though. [emoji35]

https://twitter.com/TMangnall/status/1534143690888863748?s=20&t=G3IuV5ZLGzpPdv_7sKcUYQ

How lucky for Leigh MP James Grundy, who's devoted his entire time in Westminster to trying to save his dad's farm from the Golborne HS2 link, that he supported the PM yesterday and today he's got what he wanted! What a lucky & unexpected supprise for him! I'm sure.

[Jack]

He has a point?

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1534066895900618752?t=TOaR11MorQmalSMXdmCNqQ&s=19

"Obviously when a party is tearing itself apart, the best thing for opponents to do is stand aside (and laugh). But it feels slightly striking at this moment of utter chaos in the UK govt that there apparently isn’t much in the way of an independence campaign seeking to capitalise

Maybe it’s coming…but bearing in mind that indyref2 is meant to be not much more than a year away, you’d think Yes supporters might have been hoping for a bit more urgency in terms of campaign machinery whirring to life than a Nicola Sturgeon tweet about democratic deficits"

So the best thing for the opposition is stand aside while the unionist torys rip themselves apart but the independence movement, or constitutional opposition, should get involved now 🤔

Well thats cleared things up.

[ronaldo7]

So the best thing for the opposition is stand aside while the unionist torys rip themselves apart but the independence movement, or constitutional opposition, should get involved now 🤔

Well thats cleared things up.

Stop talking about independence is their usual mantra.

They lied though.

[Stairway 2 7]

The lack of clarity in whether we'll have a referendum next year is weird. Should be full guns blazing right now, surely tories don't have the energy to fight another front

[Ozyhibby]

The lack of clarity in whether we'll have a referendum next year is weird. Should be full guns blazing right now, surely tories don't have the energy to fight another front

A bill need to be passed in Scottish Parly first.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

The lack of clarity in whether we'll have a referendum next year is weird. Should be full guns blazing right now, surely tories don't have the energy to fight another front


they don't need any energy, all they need to do is sit back and let the multi-millionaire Tory-owned press and state TV brainwash the voters

i love this quote from songwriter Jim Morison from many years ago "whoever controls the media controls the mind" how very true

[Northernhibee]

https://twitter.com/Bren4Bassetlaw/status/1533820249879072774

Unreal to think that they've gone all out attack having scraped a no confidence vote with only 25% of backbenchers backing the PM.

[Stairway 2 7]

Depressing bunch

Harry Cole
@MrHarryCole
·
What does a Hunt team look like? "Some even predict that Mrs May herself could return in a senior role such as Chancellor

[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/Bren4Bassetlaw/status/1533820249879072774


He's quite right though. If Johnson hadn't won in 2019, Steve Bray would definitely have been running the country by now. If not actually Prime Minister, then at least Chancellor. :crazy:

[Hibrandenburg]

Depressing bunch

Harry Cole
@MrHarryCole
·
What does a Hunt team look like? "Some even predict that Mrs May herself could return in a senior role such as Chancellor

That sounds wonderful compared to what we have now.

[Stairway 2 7]

That sounds wonderful compared to what we have now.

That's not really a compliment though. Two tory bassas in a cabinet of tory basas. Also no much of a compliment is, centre right kier Starmer would be wonderful compared to they two.

[JimBHibees]

This isn't about good or bad government though, this is about the political party. As an aside I rarely see broadcasters running story's about how great a government is and how wonderful they are, unless you live in North Korea or Russia.

Or London

[ronaldo7]

Tories still trying to understand devolution. They were a bit behind the curve when we started so it might take a few years more.

https://twitter.com/RuaridhHanna/status/1534134513881825281

[ronaldo7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220607/ec3a0de07a59dab0109249cf72e4fd36.jpg

Bet we still get sent the bill though. [emoji35]


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No surprises here. They were never ever coming to Scotland with HS2. We just pay a share for their infrastructure. That'll be the pooling and sharing effect of the Union.

[James310]

No surprises here. They were never ever coming to Scotland with HS2. We just pay a share for their infrastructure. That'll be the pooling and sharing effect of the Union.

I think Barnett kicks in for HS2 so we will get back extra funding. The below is a response from the Scottish Government to a FOI request.

HS2 is wholly funded by the UK Government. At Spending Review 2020, the Department
for Transport’s settlement included £22.6bn for HS2 over the period 2021/22 – 2024/25.

As the Statement of Funding Policy document sets out, the Scottish Government receives
Barnett consequentials from UK Government spending on HS2 in the normal way for
heavy rail spending in England and Wales.

At Spending Review 2020, the Scottish Government received Barnett consequentials of
£276m in 2021/22 as a result of changes in the Department for Transport’s overall budget.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think Barnett kicks in for HS2 so we will get back extra funding. The below is a response from the Scottish Government to a FOI request.

HS2 is wholly funded by the UK Government. At Spending Review 2020, the Department
for Transport’s settlement included £22.6bn for HS2 over the period 2021/22 – 2024/25.

As the Statement of Funding Policy document sets out, the Scottish Government receives
Barnett consequentials from UK Government spending on HS2 in the normal way for
heavy rail spending in England and Wales.

At Spending Review 2020, the Scottish Government received Barnett consequentials of
£276m in 2021/22 as a result of changes in the Department for Transport’s overall budget.

We should use our portion for high speed rail too. Brilliant when I've used it in other countries. Would maybe save the decline Aberdeen is expecting with oil downturn in a few decades

[grunt]

Thread here about pressure applied in 2017 by Tories over unfavourable polling by YouGov

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1534471868652085248?s=20&t=ij_hqAP6l_lfOw30KxXFaQ


This is an absolutely damning thread from a former YouGov pollster alleging they folded to political pressure in 2017 to make their results more favourable to the Conservatives and suppress findings pointing to a hung Parliament.

[ronaldo7]

I think Barnett kicks in for HS2 so we will get back extra funding. The below is a response from the Scottish Government to a FOI request.

HS2 is wholly funded by the UK Government. At Spending Review 2020, the Department
for Transport’s settlement included £22.6bn for HS2 over the period 2021/22 – 2024/25.

As the Statement of Funding Policy document sets out, the Scottish Government receives
Barnett consequentials from UK Government spending on HS2 in the normal way for
heavy rail spending in England and Wales.

At Spending Review 2020, the Scottish Government received Barnett consequentials of
£276m in 2021/22 as a result of changes in the Department for Transport’s overall budget.

Thanks for that. It's a changing situation as ever. Yours is more up to date though.

Following the vote yesterday in Westminster for ‘English Vote for English Laws’, there has been a lot of talk about HS2. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish have been saying that if their MPs will not get to vote on HS2, which is to be built solely in England, then they shouldn’t have to pay for it.

Unfortunately this is not the case, as Westminster has defined HS2 as a ‘UK-Wide’ project, insisting that the benefits will be felt throughout the land. So while MPs from outside of England will get to vote on HS2, taxes from their constituents will go towards paying for it, and because it supposedly benefits the whole UK, nowhere is set to get compensation via the Barnett formula.

[James310]

Thanks for that. It's a changing situation as ever. Yours is more up to date though.

Following the vote yesterday in Westminster for ‘English Vote for English Laws’, there has been a lot of talk about HS2. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish have been saying that if their MPs will not get to vote on HS2, which is to be built solely in England, then they shouldn’t have to pay for it.

Unfortunately this is not the case, as Westminster has defined HS2 as a ‘UK-Wide’ project, insisting that the benefits will be felt throughout the land. So while MPs from outside of England will get to vote on HS2, taxes from their constituents will go towards paying for it, and because it supposedly benefits the whole UK, nowhere is set to get compensation via the Barnett formula.

Not sure how old your information is, but it's been under Barnett for years.

[ronaldo7]

Not sure how old your information is, but it's been under Barnett for years.

Yeah, it was as old as EVEL. :aok:

[ronaldo7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61723119

Pork barrel Tories.

[Kato]

Thread here about pressure applied in 2017 by Tories over unfavourable polling by YouGov

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1534471868652085248?s=20&t=ij_hqAP6l_lfOw30KxXFaQRead that earlier. The idea that the Tories tweak polling to their advantage is shown right there. Labour showing poorly in the polls discourages voters who might have went out their way if things were displayed as being closer.

Some accusations towards Zahawi in there.

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[Lendo]

Read that earlier. The idea that the Tories tweak polling to their advantage is shown right there. Labour showing poorly in the polls discourages voters who might have went out their way if things were displayed as being closer.

Some accusations towards Zahawi in there.

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He seems to have deleted a bunch of the tweets

[Kato]

He seems to have deleted a bunch of the tweetsZahawi or Chris Curtis?

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[Lendo]

Zahawi or Chris Curtis?

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Chris Curtis

[Kato]

Chris CurtisLawyers no doubt.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Thread here about pressure applied in 2017 by Tories over unfavourable polling by YouGov

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1534471868652085248?s=20&t=ij_hqAP6l_lfOw30KxXFaQ

Disgusting, would bring down a normal government usually..

[Kato]

Thread here about pressure applied in 2017 by Tories over unfavourable polling by YouGov

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1534471868652085248?s=20&t=ij_hqAP6l_lfOw30KxXFaQResponse from YouGov

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1534500346093092864?t=HPx8_BTpSrrMML6i_3_5Eg&s=19

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[ronaldo7]

MORAY Council’s new Tory convener is under pressure to refer himself to the Standards Commission or face a vote of no confidence.

An open letter signed by 13 councillors has been sent to Marc Macrae outlining their “grave concern” at the Conservative representative's appointment as civic head, and the “reputationally damaging” impact it could have for the local authority.

[JimBHibees]

Thread here about pressure applied in 2017 by Tories over unfavourable polling by YouGov

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1534471868652085248?s=20&t=ij_hqAP6l_lfOw30KxXFaQ

Incredible not incredible. No doubt the same applies to all polls by Tories

[SHODAN]

Thread here about pressure applied in 2017 by Tories over unfavourable polling by YouGov

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1534471868652085248?s=20&t=ij_hqAP6l_lfOw30KxXFaQ

Mhairi Black is right.

[Stairway 2 7]

Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson

United Kingdom government official
· 1h
We're tackling the rising cost of housing.

By extending the right-to-buy scheme to housing associations, a further 2.5 million households will be eligible to purchase their own home.

We're reviewing access to mortgages so those in 'Generation Rent' can become 'Generation Buy

Kate Ferguson
@kateferguson4
· 1h
Brits could soon be able to to get 98% mortgages, Boris Johnson announces.

He is ordering a review of deposit rates.

Says he wants to “unbolt the door” of home ownership

[JeMeSouviens]

Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson

United Kingdom government official
· 1h
We're tackling the rising cost of housing.

By extending the right-to-buy scheme to housing associations, a further 2.5 million households will be eligible to purchase their own home.

We're reviewing access to mortgages so those in 'Generation Rent' can become 'Generation Buy

Kate Ferguson
@kateferguson4
· 1h
Brits could soon be able to to get 98% mortgages, Boris Johnson announces.

He is ordering a review of deposit rates.

Says he wants to “unbolt the door” of home ownership


Ooh, create a new big batch of sub-primes, what could go wrong? :dunno::rolleyes:

[Stairway 2 7]

Ooh, create a new big batch of sub-primes, what could go wrong? :dunno::rolleyes:

What year are we predicting the crash ha

[Ozyhibby]

What year are we predicting the crash ha

The boom before the bust will be mighty though. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ballengeich]

Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson

United Kingdom government official
· 1h
We're tackling the rising cost of housing.

By extending the right-to-buy scheme to housing associations, a further 2.5 million households will be eligible to purchase their own home.

We're reviewing access to mortgages so those in 'Generation Rent' can become 'Generation Buy

Kate Ferguson
@kateferguson4
· 1h
Brits could soon be able to to get 98% mortgages, Boris Johnson announces.

He is ordering a review of deposit rates.

Says he wants to “unbolt the door” of home ownership
A bit like the original right to buy. Individuals who're in the right place at the right time do very well for themselves. It does nothing for supply so the next group of younger people will find things even worse.

[Scorrie]

Ooh, create a new big batch of sub-primes, what could go wrong? :dunno::rolleyes:

Not only that, the government (ie us) are funding this through housing benefit. Whether we end up with a crash like in the US last time I don’t know given the UK housing market is different but homeless will increase as people who have bought homes using housing benefit to get a mortgage will be evicted if (when) they fall behind. Politically this is hugely risky as it would mean housing benefit couldn’t drop even when interest rates rise. I’m not convinced this has been thought through so expect it to be quietly dropped when mortgage lenders don’t take it up

[lapsedhibee]

I’m not convinced this has been thought through so expect it to be quietly dropped when mortgage lenders don’t take it up

:agree: Johnson, pure stunt.

[Ozyhibby]

A bit like the original right to buy. Individuals who're in the right place at the right time do very well for themselves. It does nothing for supply so the next group of younger people will find things even worse.

Won’t happen in Scotland so not going to worry about it too much. Actually, don’t think it will happen in England either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Not only that, the government (ie us) are funding this through housing benefit. Whether we end up with a crash like in the US last time I don’t know given the UK housing market is different but homeless will increase as people who have bought homes using housing benefit to get a mortgage will be evicted if (when) they fall behind. Politically this is hugely risky as it would mean housing benefit couldn’t drop even when interest rates rise. I’m not convinced this has been thought through so expect it to be quietly dropped when mortgage lenders don’t take it up

I think if it happens then all of the debt held by the Housing associations has to be moved onto the govts books which is why Cameron didn’t follow through on it. No way will they want to take a hit like that to the public finances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

"benefits to bricks" like anyone on benefits can afford more than a tin of beans!!

[Scorrie]

I think if it happens then all of the debt held by the Housing associations has to be moved onto the govts books which is why Cameron didn’t follow through on it. No way will they want to take a hit like that to the public finances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep spot on. Taking housing associations into the public sector will add around 15bn to public debt. Also some housing association homes have been delivered though planning permission agreements and may have to stay as affordable housing in perpetuity so tenants of these homes won’t be able to buy their current home ( though may be able to “port” the discount to another home. And don’t believe the 1 for 1 replacement. That will never happen

[Scorrie]

"benefits to bricks" like anyone on benefits can afford more than a tin of beans!!

Sub prime lending anyone?

[Just Alf]

Not sure if this should be in here or the Ukraine thread... I've heard a number of times that the UK government had been playing a bit fast and loose with claiming the numbers of refugees that are getting visas, basically it had been identified that they were giving some of a family their visas and leaving one them out for various reasons... mostly this means even those with visas didn't travel to the UK!

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-06-08/stranded-13-year-old-girl-returns-to-ukraine-after-home-office-rejects-visa

[stokesmessiah]

Benefits to pay for mortgages. How do people feel about tax money being used to pay interest at banks?

[Stairway 2 7]

Yep spot on. Taking housing associations into the public sector will add around 15bn to public debt. Also some housing association homes have been delivered though planning permission agreements and may have to stay as affordable housing in perpetuity so tenants of these homes won’t be able to buy their current home ( though may be able to “port” the discount to another home. And don’t believe the 1 for 1 replacement. That will never happen

I never realised they were proposing a 1 for 1 replacement. It won't happen but I'd be much happier with right to buy if this had actually happened

[Stairway 2 7]

Benefits to pay for mortgages. How do people feel about tax money being used to pay interest at banks?

About the same as I feel about it going to mega landlords or people renting out extra homes

[stokesmessiah]

About the same as I feel about it going to mega landlords or people renting out extra homes

Good point, I didn’t think about it that way.

[Scorrie]

I never realised they were proposing a 1 for 1 replacement. It won't happen but I'd be much happier with right to buy if this had actually happened

Aye Gove mentioned it this morning. Another reason to believe it will never happen

[Stairway 2 7]

Good point, I didn’t think about it that way.

We're ****** always with this corrupt system, can't wait for the season to start. Because with no world Cup all you can do is read about the torys screwing us

[Stairway 2 7]

Aye Gove mentioned it this morning. Another reason to believe it will never happen

😆 defo

[SHODAN]

A bit like the original right to buy. Individuals who're in the right place at the right time do very well for themselves. It does nothing for supply so the next group of younger people will find things even worse.

Plus if this isn't restricted solely to people of a certain age or financial situation then the landlord class will just hoover everything up as per.

[Kato]

FT going for this story tomorrow. Sunak making an £11Bn mistake filling out fields on the countries loan forms. Must be tough all that money stuff what with the parties and the wife's business and your own business.

https://twitter.com/TFCLP_2021/status/1534994889062203406?t=yunoeIsKRCz4oqLO1e9Whw&s=19


Someone in the comments asking "Is the Conservative Party working for the Russians?" It's fair to ask I suppose.

Eleven billon - on top of the nine billion on snider ppe, fifteen billion on furlough fraud..

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

FT going for this story tomorrow. Sunak making an £11Bn mistake filling out fields on the countries loan forms. Must be tough all that money stuff what with the parties and the wife's business and your own business.

https://twitter.com/TFCLP_2021/status/1534994889062203406?t=yunoeIsKRCz4oqLO1e9Whw&s=19


Someone in the comments asking "Is the Conservative Party working for the Russians?" It's fair to ask I suppose.

Eleven billon - on top of the nine billion on snider ppe, fifteen billion on furlough fraud..

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

£37bn on test and trace. What about those ferries though?[emoji35]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

FT going for this story tomorrow. Sunak making an £11Bn mistake filling out fields on the countries loan forms.

It's a dreadful story and yet more evidence of this Government's incompetence.

But you have to wonder who is leaking all these negative Sunak stories to the press and why they're doing it.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's a dreadful story and yet more evidence of this Government's incompetence.

But you have to wonder who is leaking all these negative Sunak stories to the press and why they're doing it.

The polar opossum people who leaked the boris party pics years later. Nowt snider than a tory

[Kato]

On reading through the story it's because he went against practice and didn't insure the repayments of the debt created by printing dosh during the pandemic, against a rise in the borrowing interest rate.

Those people and institutions who bought the bonds created will be laughing all the way to their offshore bank.

The (uninsured) debt servicing cost on the total £500Bn UK debt exposed to inflation cost us £53.5 billion in 2021-22 and will rise to a yak-drenching £83 billion in 2022-23.

No wonder they can't stop having parties.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

the Tory party do attract the dregs, don't they

Man who sent racist death threat to David Lammy is 12-time Conservative election candidate (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/man-who-sent-racist-death-threat-to-david-lammy-is-12-time-conservative-election-candidate/ar-AAYgWN7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8264d9d5acf24720afe827c510085613)



The Twitter (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/twitter) message to Mr Lammy, the shadow foreign secretary, said: “Are you hanging off a tree monkey boy? You will hang from a lamppost if you’re not careful.”

[JimBHibees]

the Tory party do attract the dregs, don't they

Man who sent racist death threat to David Lammy is 12-time Conservative election candidate (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/man-who-sent-racist-death-threat-to-david-lammy-is-12-time-conservative-election-candidate/ar-AAYgWN7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8264d9d5acf24720afe827c510085613)



The Twitter (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/twitter) message to Mr Lammy, the shadow foreign secretary, said: “Are you hanging off a tree monkey boy? You will hang from a lamppost if you’re not careful.”

Should be jailed for that

[JimBHibees]

On reading through the story it's because he went against practice and didn't insure the repayments of the debt created by printing dosh during the pandemic, against a rise in the borrowing interest rate.

Those people and institutions who bought the bonds created will be laughing all the way to their offshore bank.

The (uninsured) debt servicing cost on the total £500Bn UK debt exposed to inflation cost us £53.5 billion in 2021-22 and will rise to a yak-drenching £83 billion in 2022-23.

No wonder they can't stop having parties.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't deliberate to help a few mates out

[mjhibby]

Any policy announced a couple of days after the no confidence vote would have been simply to distract from how badly he did in the vote. Like levelling up just another story to get headlines. It amazes me that its not glaringly obvious is a red herring.

[Ozyhibby]

Any policy announced a couple of days after the no confidence vote would have been simply to distract from how badly he did in the vote. Like levelling up just another story to get headlines. It amazes me that its not glaringly obvious is a red herring.

There is zero chance of this ever happening.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

How did we become this kind of country? Cruelty for its own sake.


https://youtu.be/mEE0f95rAZs

[Hibernia&Alba]

Bought and paid for by their very wealthy donors.


https://youtu.be/P7k9v0duGUk

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/10/uk-deportation-flight-rwanda-can-go-ahead-high-court-judge-rules


Mr Justice Swift supported submissions made by the secretary of state and rejected the application to halt the Rwanda flight next Tuesday, but granted permission to the claimants to appeal.
He said there was a ‘material public interest’ in allowing the secretary of state to be able to implement immigration control decisions.

I'm ashamed to be British. This disgusting Government.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/10/uk-deportation-flight-rwanda-can-go-ahead-high-court-judge-rules



I'm ashamed to be British. This disgusting Government.

Yes, it's deeply disturbing. This comes right after the new Police Bill, which criminalises peaceful process, and also Johnson's changing the Ministerial Code, pre-empting his being found guilty of breaking it by the Partygate Inquiry. These are dark times for civil liberties, human rights and public standards.

[Scorrie]

Yes, it's deeply disturbing. This comes right after the new Police Bill, which criminalises peaceful process, and also Johnson's changing the Ministerial Code, pre-empting his being found guilty of breaking it by the Partygate Inquiry. These are dark times for civil liberties, human rights and public standards.

I agree but this is what people, mainly in England, have voted for time and again so it’s what they want. Here in Liverpool is increasingly an outpost from the rest of England now

[Kato]

Bought and paid for by their very wealthy donors.


https://youtu.be/P7k9v0duGUkBBC recently are quick enough to say Trade Unions have "held the country to ransom".

No.mention of this.


Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/10/uk-deportation-flight-rwanda-can-go-ahead-high-court-judge-rules



I'm ashamed to be British. This disgusting Government.

With every day that passes I am less British. Even then I only identify as British because on official forms that is often the only option.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/yougov-polling-blog/2022/jun/10/ex-worker-retracts-claim-yougov-suppressed-positive-jeremy-corbyn-poll

A former manager at YouGov has retracted a claim that the polling company suppressed research suggesting Jeremy Corbyn won a general election debate because it was “too positive about Labour”.

Chris Curtis said he was “happy to clarify the position and apologise to YouGov for any confusion caused” after accepting that the results were pulled because of concerns over the methods used

[grunt]

Another example of the Tory abuse of Government procurement over PPE.

This one man company (one director, five employees) had turnover of £300k and £600k in 2018 and 2019, which blossomed to £90m and £85m in 2020 and 2021 due to PPE contracts. In 2021 they paid out £7m in dividends, and in 2022 a staggering £40m in dividends.

That's OUR money that the Tories are giving to their friends.

And this is just the ones we know about. I could scream.

https://twitter.com/Procure4Health/status/1535670507378548737?s=20&t=oVnjlVxZgGKnspmU43JMRQ

[grunt]

Chris Curtis said he was “happy to clarify the position and apologise to YouGov for any confusion caused” after accepting that the results were pulled because of concerns over the methods usedRather sounds like he's been got at.

[Stairway 2 7]

Rather sounds like he's been got at.

Nah I don't think so. I believe you govs response. They released many polls pro labour aroundthe time. I was fuming when I read it, but have read a few left wing data analysts doubt it

they have some on their site now

Next gen elec

LAB: 47 (+8)
CON: 24% (-7)
Lib Dem: 14% (+2)
Green: 7% (n/c)
SNP: 4% (-1)
Reform UK: 4% (n/c)

Do the public think there should be a general election in the next few months?

All Britons
Yes: 48%
No: 40%

Every region of the UK now considers Brexit to have been a mistake.
- YouGov poll

YouGov's monthly tracker: "Do you think that Boris Johnson is doing well or badly as Prime Minister?" June numbers:

Well: 24%
Badly: 69%
Net: -45%

[Hibernia&Alba]

Another example of the Tory abuse of Government procurement over PPE.

This one man company (one director, five employees) had turnover of £300k and £600k in 2018 and 2019, which blossomed to £90m and £85m in 2020 and 2021 due to PPE contracts. In 2021 they paid out £7m in dividends, and in 2022 a staggering £40m in dividends.

That's OUR money that the Tories are giving to their friends.

And this is just the ones we know about. I could scream.

https://twitter.com/Procure4Health/status/1535670507378548737?s=20&t=oVnjlVxZgGKnspmU43JMRQ

The opposition should be constantly hammering this scandal, but it's all very quiet. This is an incredible story - £12 billion pounds has been written off on PPE; I just don't get why the other parties aren't keeping it in the news everyday, in the way Partygate is.

[Jack]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/yougov-polling-blog/2022/jun/10/ex-worker-retracts-claim-yougov-suppressed-positive-jeremy-corbyn-poll

A former manager at YouGov has retracted a claim that the polling company suppressed research suggesting Jeremy Corbyn won a general election debate because it was “too positive about Labour”.

Chris Curtis said he was “happy to clarify the position and apologise to YouGov for any confusion caused” after accepting that the results were pulled because of concerns over the methods used

How do we know in future which polls have been manipulated and how?

[Stairway 2 7]

How do we know in future which polls have been manipulated and how?

They show their methodology when they release a poll, all the data can be seen. This poll was said to be not credible as it was small and too high a percentage of the people asked voted Labour in the previous election. They have a set parameter pre asking the question.

Although yougov have dozens of polls on their twitter just now that are poor for the Conservatives. I don't think they are the bad guys

[hibsbollah]

They show their methodology when they release a poll, all the data can be seen. This poll was said to be not credible as it was small and too high a percentage of the people asked voted Labour in the previous election. They have a set parameter pre asking the question.

Although yougov have dozens of polls on their twitter just now that are poor for the Conservatives. I don't think they are the bad guys

The polls are poor for the conservatives because the conservatives are massively unpopular. It doesn’t mean the revelations about yougov misrepresentation don’t add up. Yougov always underrepresented Labours position through that period, it was always assumed that was all due to different methodologies, I’m starting to doubt that now.

[Stairway 2 7]

The polls are poor for the conservatives because the conservatives are massively unpopular. It doesn’t mean the revelations about yougov misrepresentation don’t add up. Yougov always underrepresented Labours position through that period, it was always assumed that was all due to different methodologies, I’m starting to doubt that now.

They were only 3% out on that election that's closer than almost all of them. Labour are generally over represented in polling as people rightly are embarrassed to say they vote tory, they say I'm voting Labour then vote tory

[hibsbollah]

They were only 3% out on that election that's closer than almost all of them. Labour are generally over represented in polling as people rightly are embarrassed to say they vote tory, they say I'm voting Labour then vote tory

The revelations are about the polling pre-election. That’s the period that matters, the Tories were trusting enough new young first time voters wouldn’t bother if they didn’t think the Tories could be caught. The fact is was a hung Parliament shows how wrong they were.

[Stairway 2 7]

The revelations are about the polling pre-election. That’s the period that matters, the Tories were trusting enough new young first time voters wouldn’t bother if they didn’t think the Tories could be caught. The fact is was a hung Parliament shows how wrong they were.

It was one poll that had a majority of Labour voters asked. They were pretty close on the election. You said they under represented Labour at the time. Do you mean this poll or were there others, I genuinely don't know

[hibsbollah]

It was one poll that had a majority of Labour voters asked. They were pretty close on the election. You said they under represented Labour at the time. Do you mean this poll or were there others, I genuinely don't know

It's out there if you type in yougov and scandal into a search engine you can get your own take, but the key point is this; yougov was co founded by now Tory minister Zahawi. You gov polling at the time of the Manchester bombing suddenly shows move to Labour, poll not widely reported because of media interest in that horrible story, but they do a 2nd MRP poll, which are normally considered more accurate than a traditional 1000 recipient phone poll, which confirms the results of the First poll, which now shows a hung parliament. Corbyn achieving a hung parliament is at this point in the electoral cycle widely considered a very unlikely scenario based on all other polling. Curtis claims that Zahawi, now a Tory MP, calls up Yougov and threatens yougov telling them to hold back on publishing, they do and when the polling is released they release some other guff about 'outdated methodologies' and it being an 'outlier'. Of course, the poll was accurate.

Further positive pro Corbyn polling after the May-less leaders debate, which Corbyn strolled(, I remember arguing with the usual suspects on here about it at the time), was PULLED (Curtis' words) for being too pro-Labour.
Curtis has since retracted some of his initial claims, probably under a lot of duress.
The whole polling industry is fundamental to the operation of modern democracy, the public loses trust in its function we will cease to bother, Zahawi would have been sacked by now in a normal world, but editors are scared to touch this story because of the implications for how politics and news bounces off each other.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's out there if you type in yougov and scandal into a search engine you can get your own take, but the key point is this; yougov was co founded by now Tory minister Zahawi. You gov polling at the time of the Manchester bombing suddenly shows move to Labour, poll not widely reported because of media interest in that horrible story, but they do a 2nd MRP poll, which are normally considered more accurate than a traditional 1000 recipient phone poll, which confirms the results of the First poll, which now shows a hung parliament. Corbyn achieving a hung parliament is at this point in the electoral cycle widely considered a very unlikely scenario based on all other polling. Curtis claims that Zahawi, now a Tory MP, calls up Yougov and threatens yougov telling them to hold back on publishing, they do and when the polling is released they release some other guff about 'outdated methodologies' and it being an 'outlier'. Of course, the poll was accurate.

Further positive pro Corbyn polling after the May-less leaders debate, which Corbyn strolled(, I remember arguing with the usual suspects on here about it at the time), was PULLED (Curtis' words) for being too pro-Labour.
Curtis has since retracted some of his initial claims, probably under a lot of duress.
The whole polling industry is fundamental to the operation of modern democracy, the public loses trust in its function we will cease to bother, Zahawi would have been sacked by now in a normal world, but editors are scared to touch this story because of the implications for how politics and news bounces off each other.

Cheers I'll have a look tonight. I've not read much about this. I was fuming when I read his thread, but believe yougov on this single poll as others that I like backed it up in detail. I don't believe zahawis excuse at all, as friendly banter between mates.

[Hibernia&Alba]

White refugees only, please. No dogs, no blacks, no Muslims.


https://youtu.be/ZUgjT0S57JM

[Stairway 2 7]

White refugees only, please. No dogs, no blacks, no Muslims.


https://youtu.be/ZUgjT0S57JM

The rise in immigration since brexit has been from India Pakistan and Nigeria mostly. We're moving away from white immigrant

[James310]

White refugees only, please. No dogs, no blacks, no Muslims.


https://youtu.be/ZUgjT0S57JM

How does the UK granting 70% of Hong Kong residents the chance to move to the UK, that's 5.4M people by the way, meet that narrative? They reckon about 300,000 will move to the UK.

How do you explain that policy?

This current UK government is a shambles, but making stuff up doesn't help.

[James310]

The rise in immigration since brexit has been from India Pakistan and Nigeria mostly. We're moving away from white immigrant

Some more facts and data.

https://www.ft.com/content/f2d72f42-af5f-4922-8fcb-f50a32f37afc

https://archive.ph/WqdeI


Archived version if FT one is not accessible.

[Hibernia&Alba]

How does the UK granting 70% of Hong Kong residents the chance to move to the UK, that's 5.4M people by the way, meet that narrative? They reckon about 300,000 will move to the UK.

How do you explain that policy?

This current UK government is a shambles, but making stuff up doesn't help.

Nobody is making stuff up. The policy is there in relation to refugees and asylum seekers: they are being sent to Rwanda, but Ukrainians are exempt. Apparently, Ukrainians don't try to "pull down statues and erase British history" and they are only visiting. The Rwanda policy is explicitly racist.

Why are those escaping the war in Ukraine allowed to stay in the UK, whilst those escaping the war in Syria will be sent to Rwanda? The United Nations has said that treating refugees and asylum seekers by different criteria breaks international law.

[Stairway 2 7]

Nobody is making stuff up. The policy is there in relation to refugees and asylum seekers: they are being sent to Rwanda, but Ukrainians are exempt. Apparently, Ukrainians don't try to "pull down statues and erase British history" and they are only visiting. The Rwanda policy is explicitly racist.

Why are those escaping the war in Ukraine allowed to stay in the UK, whilst those escaping the war in Syria will be sent to Rwanda?

Ukrainians aren't exempt or Syrians its so called illegal immigrants, which no one should be labelled. Immigration is up and at record levels. 1 million visas were issued last year! The rise has been from non whites and the uk public have not been as pro immigration in decades

[Stairway 2 7]

Some more facts and data.

https://www.ft.com/content/f2d72f42-af5f-4922-8fcb-f50a32f37afc

https://archive.ph/WqdeI


Archived version if FT one is not accessible.

Brilliant article I like John Burn-Murdoch his visuals make it easy to understand. 1 million visas last year, that's going to rise a big bit due to the new Indian trade deal. Britain is becoming browner each year, hope they bring their cooking skills

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ukrainians aren't exempt or Syrians its so called illegal immigrants, which no one should be labelled. Immigration is up and at record levels. 1 million visas were issued last year! The rise has been from non whites and the uk public have not been as pro immigration in decades

Asylum seekers and refugees by definition cannot be illegal immigrants. Under international law those claiming asylum or refugee status must be given due process. The Rwanda policies includes refugees and asylum seekers. Even those whose asylum/refugee case is accepted as genuine must remain in Rwanda. This policy, however, isn't being applied to those fleeing Ukraine but will apply to other war zones, at the government's whim. This is illegal, according to the UN.

It doesn't matter if immigration is up. Refugees cannot be treated differently according to where they arrive from!

The government has given Ukrainians a pathway (albeit very badly organised) to claim refugee status from Ukraine, but haven't done that in other war zones. Those people have to risk their lives and cross the channel on small rafts. What's different about Ukrainians?

[Stairway 2 7]

Asylum seekers and refugees by definition cannot be illegal immigrants. Under international law those claiming asylum or refugee status must be given due process. The Rwanda policies includes refugees and asylum seekers. Even those whose asylum/refugee case is accepted as genuine must remain in Rwanda. This policy, however, isn't being applied to those fleeing Ukraine but will apply to other war zones, at the government's whim. This is illegal, according to the UN.

It doesn't matter if immigration is up. Refugees cannot be treated differently according to where they arrive from!

1 million people got a visa last year the ones that came without one will be the ones sent. Ukrainians also can't come if they haven't been accepted, so not treated differently which is disgusting obviously.

Everyone should be able to come over I think personally and Rwanda is abhorrent. But the fact is immigration has never been so high and is growing each year. 20% of the uk workforce was born abroad

[lapsedhibee]

Tories are all over the place with immigration just now. Started off well by replacing eastern Europeans with Indians, as that avoided making new laws about talking foreign on buses. But then the Ukraine opportunity arose for Johnson and the Tories find themselves, for presentation purposes, allowing Ukrainians in to the country. Who is going to police them not talking foreign on the buses ffs?

[Hibernia&Alba]

1 million people got a visa last year the ones that came without one will be the ones sent. Ukrainians also can't come if they haven't been accepted, so not treated differently which is disgusting obviously.

Everyone should be able to come over I think personally and Rwanda is abhorrent. But the fact is immigration has never been so high and is growing each year. 20% of the uk workforce was born abroad

That has no relevance to the different treatment of refugees and asylum seekers, does it? It's a completely different issue. Nobody claiming asylum or refugee status should be farmed out to Rwanda, a country with a poor human rights record itself. Tory MP Gerald Howarth there said it clearly: Ukrainians, apparently, don't try to pull down statues or erase British history; they are a different kind of refugee. A blatant admission of racism.

Under international law no government can pick and choose the refugees/asylum seekers it is willing to take. It is a racist policy; this government doesn't want refugees who are Arab or African. White Europeans from Ukraine, on the other hand, are helped.

The irony, of course, is that the refugees from the middle-east, whom the government doesn't want here, were created in part by British policy in Iraq.

[Stairway 2 7]

That has no relevance to the different treatment of refugees and asylum seekers, does it? It's a completely different issue. Nobody claiming asylum or refugee status should be farmed out to Rwanda, a country with a poor human rights record itself. Tory MP Gerald Howarth there said it clearly: Ukrainians, apparently, don't try to pull down statues or erase British history.; there are a different kind of refugee. A blatant admission of racism.

Under international law no government can pick and choose the refugees/asylum seekers it is willing to take. It is a racist policy; this government doesn't want refugees who are Arab or African.

There's hundreds of articles on why European nations have all been more accepting to Ukranians than other nations. Is it because they are a neighbour and seen as a part of Europe, is it anti Muslim, is it because the vast majority are women and children rather than the majority of young males that cross the Channel and Mediterranean. Probably all of the above. Poland have welcomed 1 million Ukranians but have hundreds of miles of fences to stop others.

The uk government only let in Ukranians because of public outrage not their choosing. Immigration to the UK has undoubtedly went from white Europeans to South Asia and Africa though

[Hibernia&Alba]

There's hundreds of articles on why European nations have all been more accepting to Ukranians than other nations. Is it because they are a neighbour and seen as a part of Europe, is it anti Muslim, is it because the vast majority are women and children rather than the majority of young males that cross the Channel and Mediterranean. Probably all of the above. Poland have welcomed 1 million Ukranians but have hundreds of miles of fences to stop others.

The uk government only let in Ukranians because of public outrage not their choosing. Immigration to the UK has undoubtedly went from white Europeans to South Asia and Africa though


Again, not relevant to the Rwanda policy. If those poor people fleeing a war in Syria were instead fleeing a war in Sweden or Austria, they wouldn't have to cross the channel in rafts, would they? Nor would they be dumped in Rwanda. They would be given a legal pathway to refugee status which is being denied those from poorer parts of the world. They have to risk their lives and money via human traffickers and rafts. Such victims are being treated as lesser people, as not fully human. They are innocent pawns in the government's game, aimed at showing the electorate they are tough on immigration.

[Stairway 2 7]

Again, not relevant to the Rwanda policy. If those poor people fleeing a war in Syria were instead fleeing a war in Sweden or Austria, they wouldn't have to cross the channel in rafts, would they? Nor would they dumped in Rwanda.

So they are racist against people fleeing war. But not when picking the one million that they accept each year, who are now much less Europe and more brown. So racist against whites for the immigrants they accept.

[Hibernia&Alba]

So they are racist against people fleeing war. But not when picking the one million that they accept each year, who are now much less Europe and more brown. So racist against whites for the immigrants they accept.

Since when has the government discriminated against white people applying to live in the UK or from claiming asylum/refugee status in the UK? On the other hand, we've seen the double standard when it comes to the treatment of refugees fleeing a European war, and how that contrasts to those feeling other conflicts.

Yet again you are conflating immigration with refugees and asylum seekers. They are completely different issues! It isn't only illegal immigrants who will be sent to Rwanda but refugees and asylum seekers, who, even if their case is deemed genuine, will have no right of return to the UK and must remain in Rwanda. Furthermore, the government reserves the right to pick and choose which refugees/asylum seekers are to be sent to Rwanda. Ukrainians can stay, those from other war zones cannot. Why not?

The Rwanda policy must be scrapped so we can return to complying with international law. Refugees and asylum seekers must be processed in the country they make their claim, and, if found to be genuine must be granted right to stay in that country.

[Stairway 2 7]

Since when has the government discriminated against white people applying to live in the UK or from claiming asylum/refugee status in the UK? On the other hand, we've seen the double standard when it comes to the treatment of refugees fleeing a European war, and how that contrasts to those feeling other conflicts.

Yet again you are conflating immigration with refugees and asylum seekers. They are completely different issues! It isn't only illegal immigrants who will be sent to Rwanda but refugees and asylum seekers, who, even if their case is deemed genuine, will have no right of return to the UK and must remain in Rwanda. Furthermore, the government reserves the right to pick and choose which refugees/asylum seekers are to be sent to Rwanda. Ukrainians can stay, those from other war zones cannot. Why not?

The Rwanda policy must be scrapped so we can return to complying with international law. Refugees and asylum seekers must be processed in the country they make their claim, and, if found to be genuine must be granted right to stay in that country.

The uk accepted 25,000 I'm sure they would have accepted the same from Ukraine but the public demanded more.

The number of refugees accepted is going up massively 22,000 in 2010, 38,000 in 2018, 56,000 last year. Iran, Iraq, Eritrea and Afghanistan were the biggest numbers.

Uk gov are increasing immigration and accepted asylum seekers much more. The Rwanda idea is a ridiculous horrible idea that they will only use symbolically due to the cost.

The EU pay Tunisia to do their dirty work and Australia's camps are disgusting too

[Hibernia&Alba]

The uk accepted 25,000 I'm sure they would have accepted the same from Ukraine but the public demanded more.

The number of refugees accepted is going up massively 22,000 in 2010, 38,000 in 2018, 56,000 last year. Iran, Iraq, Eritrea and Afghanistan were the biggest numbers.

Uk gov are increasing immigration and accepted asylum seekers much more. The Rwanda idea is a ridiculous horrible idea that they will only use symbolically due to the cost.

The EU pay Tunisia to do their dirty work and Australia's camps are disgusting too

Immigration from outside the EU must increase because of Brexit. For example, forty thousand nurses from the EU have left the NHS post-Brexit and must be replaced. The only alternative is to allow more immigration from outside the EU. Workers from EU countries will go where there is free movement.

The Rwanda policy is to reduce the number of refugees and asylum seekers in the UK. As the UN has said, the UK is breaking its international commitments with the Rwanda policy. It isn't just a racist policy, it is another policy which victimises some of the most vulnerable, alongside other policies which hurt benefit claimants, the unemployed, the homeless etc etc. The Tory playbook is to hammer the least amongst us then boast about it to their voters.

[Stairway 2 7]

Some more facts and data.

https://www.ft.com/content/f2d72f42-af5f-4922-8fcb-f50a32f37afc

https://archive.ph/WqdeI


Archived version if FT one is not accessible.

Found the thread for this article and its really well done and a great read. UK public are becoming more pro immigration and have been steadily for over a decade.
25% want it reduced it was 50 10 years ago
60% think they are positive for our economy it was 35% in 2014

British have one of the most positive views on immigrants in the world
25940

[Callum_62]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61779845

[Stairway 2 7]

@pmdfoster
CBI warns UK government over unhelpful “grandstanding” on Northern Ireland protocol — interesting. ⁦
@tonydanker
⁩ ⁦
@CBItweets
⁩ is always measured/careful when it comes to bearding govt. #brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/13/cbi-warns-uk-government-over-northern-ireland-protocol?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=c962588b65-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_06_13_06_04&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-c962588b65-190601980

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·
1h
There is a certain fascination watching a government willing to break international law and damage the UKs relationships with the EU and USA, all so that they can pass a bill that if implemented would make the U.K. poorer

[Stairway 2 7]

Why do they risk their lives to go from France to here is what I don't understand. They are treated poorly when here, is it family ties that makes them leave France or better chances of work or something. Brutal, wish Scotland could take them directly

[Ozyhibby]

Why do they risk their lives to go from France to here is what I don't understand. They are treated poorly when here, is it family ties that makes them leave France or better chances of work or something. Brutal, wish Scotland could take them directly

Language, family ties, type of work available, the fact we have no ID cards and we give out NI numbers willy nilly etc etc. There are likely to be lots of other reasons. The number that want to come to the UK only make up a small percentage of those who get to the EU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Language, family ties, type of work available, the fact we have no ID cards and we give out NI numbers willy nilly etc etc. There are likely to be lots of other reasons. The number that want to come to the UK only make up a small percentage of those who get to the EU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Saw a chart on how miniscule people coming over on boats was compared to people travelling other ways. Press seem to focus on it to demonise. Just a pity we can't get them easily into Scotland rather than feeling they have to risk death

[Stairway 2 7]

Kate Nicholls OBE
@UKHospKate

Labour market squeeze continues - unemployment at a 50 year low, 1.3 m vacancies and economic inactivity remains well above pre Covid levels

ONS
Headline indicators for the UK labour market for February to April 2022 show that

▪️ employment was 75.6%
▪️ unemployment was 3.8%
▪️ economic inactivity was 21.3%

The number of employees on payroll continued to grow in May 2022 and is now 627,000 above its pre-pandemic level
3 million up on 2014

There were 1.300 million job vacancies on average across March to May 2022, up from 1.280 million in the previous quarter

Total public sector employment in March 2022 was up 21,000 on the previous quarter.

The increase was largely driven by an extra 13,000 employees in the NHS

[He's here!]

Again, not relevant to the Rwanda policy. If those poor people fleeing a war in Syria were instead fleeing a war in Sweden or Austria, they wouldn't have to cross the channel in rafts, would they? Nor would they be dumped in Rwanda. They would be given a legal pathway to refugee status which is being denied those from poorer parts of the world. They have to risk their lives and money via human traffickers and rafts. Such victims are being treated as lesser people, as not fully human. They are innocent pawns in the government's game, aimed at showing the electorate they are tough on immigration.

I haven't looked into this in depth, so am unclear what the set-up is which awaits these refugees in Rwanda. Are they really being 'dumped' there or has adequate provision been made to accomodate them? If a similar agreement had been made with Sweden or Austria would we be be less uneasy about them being sent there?

[Stairway 2 7]

Hugo Gye
@HugoGye
·
1h
Asylum seekers deported to Rwanda will simply try and escape and return to Europe, country's opposition leader tells
@theipaper
: "The Government of Rwanda knows that these refugees will not stay in Rwanda. This is why they accepted this deal

https://inews.co.uk/news/rwanda-asylum-seekers-people-smugglers-back-uk-1685927

[Hibernia&Alba]

I haven't looked into this in depth, so am unclear what the set-up is which awaits these refugees in Rwanda. Are they really being 'dumped' there or has adequate provision been made to accomodate them? If a similar agreement had been made with Sweden or Austria would we be be less uneasy about them being sent there?

1- Yes, they are being dumped there. They are being taken against their will and handed over to another country which is taking them for money.

2 - Yes, sending them to Austria or Sweden in return for payment would be just as bad. The problem isn't with Rwanda; the problem is sending people seeking refugee status or asylum in the UK to Rwanda against their will and making them stay there, even if their case is judged genuine. If someone wishes to claim asylum in Rwanda, Sweden or Austria, they are entitled to do so under international law. In the same way, if someone wants to make such an application to the UK, they are entitled to. It is illegal for the UK government to deny someone that right and instead send the applicant to another country.

And I say again I don't believe any white European refugees/asylum seekers would be treated in the same way. See Ukraine!

[Scorrie]

Jeezo it want that long ago Rwanda saw one of the worst genocides since the war. I’m assuming due diligence has been done to ensure that this isn’t going to happen again

[Hibrandenburg]

Jeezo it want that long ago Rwanda saw one of the worst genocides since the war. I’m assuming due diligence has been done to ensure that this isn’t going to happen again

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/rwanda

[Hibernia&Alba]

Jeezo it want that long ago Rwanda saw one of the worst genocides since the war. I’m assuming due diligence has been done to ensure that this isn’t going to happen again

Erm, no. Just last year the UK government criticised Rwanda's human rights record. However, what happens to the people they send there isn't their worry.

[wookie70]

Why do they risk their lives to go from France to here is what I don't understand. They are treated poorly when here, is it family ties that makes them leave France or better chances of work or something. Brutal, wish Scotland could take them directly

I listened to a chap on the radio who had been dealing with asylum seekers for years. The UK are the 15th most popular place for refugees in Europe. After that the reasons given by refugees for crossing the channel were some sort of affinity for the UK. Some had family, some it was their only family in the world, many had worked with or helped the UK forces and others had English as a second language. The reasons were way more sensible than this government's immigration policies.

[ronaldo7]

A wee lesson for Liz Truss on pronunciations... Irish style.

https://twitter.com/Askaudreylike/status/1536658014593327104

[hibsbollah]

Culture War death match. Lefty woke lawyers using European human rights law trying to stop Boris ‘sending ‘them’ back to Africa’. Tories are absolutely loving this. It’s disgusting.

[Ozyhibby]

Culture War death match. Lefty woke lawyers using European human rights law trying to stop Boris ‘sending ‘them’ back to Africa’. Tories are absolutely loving this. It’s disgusting.

Lawyers are only representing their clients. UK govt doesn’t like when poor people get lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Culture War death match. Lefty woke lawyers using European human rights law trying to stop Boris ‘sending ‘them’ back to Africa’. Tories are absolutely loving this. It’s disgusting.

Many are desperate for the UK to leave the ECHR and even the UN agreements on refugees and asylum. We are on a dark path.

[hibsbollah]

Many are desperate for the UK to leave the ECHR and even the UN agreements on refugees and asylum. We are on a dark path.

:agree:
BBC political correspondent has just told me the Govt are ‘absolutely furious’ with the last minute intervention from judges ‘not from these shores’. Total nonsense of course, the Tories are absolutely delighted. None of this is about real emotions, It’s perfect.

[lapsedhibee]

:agree:
BBC political correspondent has just told me the Govt are ‘absolutely furious’ with the last minute intervention from judges ‘not from these shores’. Total nonsense of course, the Tories are absolutely delighted. None of this is about real emotions, It’s perfect.

Doubly delighted tonight, with the soccerball drubbing at Molyneux. Firstly, couldn't possibly change the PM while the national game is in crisis. Second, the country that did the drubbing is led by a populist ****, proving that it's good for countries to be led by populist *****. I fancy Zahawi to be on the media round tomorrow promoting this.

[Col2]

The UK Govt are BNP/UKIP in all but name.

Moving closer and closer to facist state.

[hibsbollah]

Opinion polling makes depressing. 40%+ approve of the Rwanda deportations, goes firmly on Party lines, 73% Tories support the policy and 71% of Labour supporters disapprove (dunno if it’s more depressing that 73% of Tories do or c29% of Labour voters do).

I understand racism, it’s always been there, but I don’t understand the revelling in the blatant immorality of it. They are all enjoying themselves so much.

[Scorrie]

Opinion polling makes depressing. 40%+ approve of the Rwanda deportations, goes firmly on Party lines, 73% Tories support the policy and 71% of Labour supporters disapprove (dunno if it’s more depressing that 73% of Tories do or c29% of Labour voters do).

I understand racism, it’s always been there, but I don’t understand the revelling in the blatant immorality of it. They are all enjoying themselves so much.

Yep it’s so sad really. Not to mention how much it is costing and the environmental impact of the flights. Pure dog whistle politics but unfortunately a lot of people like it

[Pretty Boy]

One of the arguments that absolutely does my head in when discussing these flights is 'they aren't refugees, they are economic migrants'. The evidence for this is usually pretty flimsy with rants about passing through safe countries (and I think safe is a relative term here) or asking why they don't settle in 'other' countries.

On the second point, and it's evidently related to the 1st, there is just ignorance of just how many refugees and asylum seekers the UK accepts. We aren't close to the top 10 and the fact is the vast majority of refugees do settle in areas close to their homeland. Related to both that and the 1st point my question is always why shouldn't someone displaced through war, persecution drought, famine etc seek the best possible alternative for their family? Should someone simply be happy to be safe and displaced in a refugee camp indefinitely? Does anyone think so small when considering their own family? Refugee camps can leave entire families in limbo for decades; Dadaab in Kenya has a population of 250K and has been in operation since 1991, the Sahrawi refugee camps in Algeria comprising people from Western Sahara have been in operation since the mid 1970s and many of the inhabitants are still the original population and their descendants. There's an inhumanity to that and failure or unwillingness to accept someones reasoning for wishing to escape that shows a frightening lack of empathy.

If the motivation to enter the UK is driven by a desire for a better life, economically or otherwise, for either self or family then so what? If it boils down to family ties or a basic understanding of English as a transferable skill then I understand the appeal. Of course there has to be a process but that process shouldn't involve loading people onto the 21st century version of cattle trucks. Whether there is a genuine desire from the Tories and those who vote for them to see that happen or whether it's the worst kind of gesture politics is irrelevant, it's ****ing abhorrent.

[Moulin Yarns]

One of the arguments that absolutely does my head in when discussing these flights is 'they aren't refugees, they are economic migrants'. The evidence for this is usually pretty flimsy with rants about passing through safe countries (and I think safe is a relative term here) or asking why they don't settle in 'other' countries.

On the second point, and it's evidently related to the 1st, there is just ignorance of just how many refugees and asylum seekers the UK accepts. We aren't close to the top 10 and the fact is the vast majority of refugees do settle in areas close to their homeland. Related to both that and the 1st point my question is always why shouldn't someone displaced through war, persecution drought, famine etc seek the best possible alternative for their family? Should someone simply be happy to be safe and displaced in a refugee camp indefinitely? Does anyone think so small when considering their own family? Refugee camps can leave entire families in limbo for decades; Dadaab in Kenya has a population of 250K and has been in operation since 1991, the Sahrawi refugee camps in Algeria comprising people from Western Sahara have been in operation since the mid 1970s and many of the inhabitants are still the original population and their descendants. There's an inhumanity to that and failure or unwillingness to accept someones reasoning for wishing to escape that shows a frightening lack of empathy.

If the motivation to enter the UK is driven by a desire for a better life, economically or otherwise, for either self or family then so what? If it boils down to family ties or a basic understanding of English as a transferable skill then I understand the appeal. Of course there has to be a process but that process shouldn't involve loading people onto the 21st century version of cattle trucks. Whether there is a genuine desire from the Tories and those who vote for them to see that happen or whether it's the worst kind of gesture politics is irrelevant, it's ****ing abhorrent.

All of that 👍

Pretty sure that the UK is only about 16th in Europe for refugees. English is a second language for a lot of the refugees and they also have relatives in the UK.


This whole thing about the flights being a deterrent to the trafficking gangs is rubbish, do they think refugees watch the BBC?

[Stairway 2 7]

Hugo Gye
@HugoGye
·
21m
3m householders face higher mortgage payments this year with the average fixed-rate borrower paying £190/month more if interest rates go up to 1.5% tomorrow.

No direct support for this group as Sunak hangs on and hopes for the best

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/higher-mortgage-payments-rishi-sunak-summer-economic-bad-news-1687049

[Moulin Yarns]

Hugo Gye
@HugoGye
·
21m
3m householders face higher mortgage payments this year with the average fixed-rate borrower paying £190/month more if interest rates go up to 1.5% tomorrow.

No direct support for this group as Sunak hangs on and hopes for the best

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/higher-mortgage-payments-rishi-sunak-summer-economic-bad-news-1687049

Forgive me if I've got the wrong end of the stick but if you are on a fixed rate then surely you can't pay any more until the term ends?

[Stairway 2 7]

Forgive me if I've got the wrong end of the stick but if you are on a fixed rate then surely you can't pay any more until the term ends?

Yep you're right, the headline was a bit click bait. The 3 million is made up of people who's fixed rate is ending and people on variable. More misery for many

More than three million homeowners face higher mortgage payments this year as a result of interest rate rises with the average fixed rate set to go up by almost £200 a month.

The Bank of England is widely expected to raise rates on Thursday by as much as half a percentage point, taking them to 1.5 per cent – up from just 0.1 per cent last year.

But Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson are not planning to offer any targeted support to borrowers in the coming months. The Chancellor is braced for a “tough” few months, according to allies, but is optimistic about the prospects of an economic recovery from the autumn.

On Thursday, the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee will announce whether it will raise interest rates above their current level of 1 per cent.

Analysts consider it almost certain that rates will rise by at least 0.25 percentage points, with an unusual 0.5 point increase also seen as plausible.

According to UK Finance figures, 1.3 million fixed-rate mortgage deals are ending at some point this year, forcing borrowers to refinance at a higher rate. There are also nearly 1.9 million people on a variable or tracker mortgage, which move automatically in line with interest rates.
With rates at 1.5 per cent, the average fixed-rate borrower will have to pay around £190 extra a month to service their mortgage, UK Finance has calculated

[Stairway 2 7]

I agree, culture wars pish from the tories

stephenkb
The point of the Rwanda policy isn’t for it to work (which is just as well). It’s to give Tory MPs something to say about small boats. You can see how nebulous “ECHR reform” guff fits that role too

Of course, in practice, actually leaving the ECHR is super-difficult, and this government’s record even at tasks which are mildly tricky is not good. But it loves a press release or a review:

https://www.ft.com/content/dd3e5f38-81c4-493e-8042-822487e93d05

[He's here!]

Lawyers are only representing their clients. UK govt doesn’t like when poor people get lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe they should take a leaf out of Easyjet's books and overbook these flights. That way the lawyers might not be able to keep up with demand. I'm only half joking as I could actually see something like that happening.

[JeMeSouviens]

:agree:
BBC political correspondent has just told me the Govt are ‘absolutely furious’ with the last minute intervention from judges ‘not from these shores’. Total nonsense of course, the Tories are absolutely delighted. None of this is about real emotions, It’s perfect.

Classic wedge issue. Has Lynton Crosby's grubby mitts all over it. :rolleyes:

[Pretty Boy]

Yvette Cooper tore Patel to shreds over the whole plan. Called it for the nonsense it so obviously is.

[Col2]

Yvette Cooper tore Patel to shreds over the whole plan. Called it for the nonsense it so obviously is.

Destroyed her. However deception, lying, corruption are now the norm therefore Parliament has become almost pointless.

The ECHR thing is now being branded as a EU / Brexit war when this little beauty sums it up nicely

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1537001895365120000?s=21&t=ktAL1_Vay1bl9INT7AeyVQ

[Just Alf]

If anyone was supposed to be on the flight and was removed for whatever reason then clearly something has failed as they shouldn't have been considered for the flight (at that stage) in the 1st instance?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Boris Johnson's ethics adviser Geidt resigns - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61819747)

Boris Johnson's ethics adviser Lord Geidt has resigned after saying there was a "legitimate question" over whether the PM had broken ministerial rules over Partygate

[lapsedhibee]

Boris Johnson's ethics adviser Geidt resigns - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61819747)

Boris Johnson's ethics adviser Lord Geidt has resigned after saying there was a "legitimate question" over whether the PM had broken ministerial rules over Partygate

Perhaps he read John Crace in the Guardian ripping the absolute pish out of him yesterday.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Perhaps he read John Crace in the Guardian ripping the absolute pish out of him yesterday.



just had a wee sketch at the article, i do like the description given for Johnson Lord Geidt, the ultimate stooge, struggles to maintain the illusion of authority | John Crace | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/14/lord-geidt-ultimate-establishment-stooge-struggles-maintain-illusion-of-authority)


Convict

[cabbageandribs1875]

oooh the Bishops better watch out, they've upset the future supreme leader..the supreme leader that unionists in Scotland gladly want to lead all of GB, next the future supreme leader of all of GB will start loading the justice system, like Trump wanted/did, it's coming

Tom Newton Dunn on Twitter: "Retribution, it appears, is coming for the 26 bishops who said the Rwanda policy “shames Britain”. Cabinet ministers openly talking about expelling them from the Lords now. “Only Iran also has clerics that sit in their legislature”, one tells me. “They’ll




(https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1536838184360894464)

[Stairway 2 7]

oooh the Bishops better watch out, they've upset the future supreme leader..the supreme leader that unionists in Scotland gladly want to lead all of GB, next the future supreme leader of all of GB will start loading the justice system, like Trump wanted/did, it's coming

Tom Newton Dunn on Twitter: "Retribution, it appears, is coming for the 26 bishops who said the Rwanda policy “shames Britain”. Cabinet ministers openly talking about expelling them from the Lords now. “Only Iran also has clerics that sit in their legislature”, one tells me. “They’ll




(https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1536838184360894464)

So many questions. Why do the tories push forward with this clearly vile plan. Also why is there clergy in the house of Lords. Why has the house of Lords not been disbanded and replaced by voted in representatives

[hibby rae]

Destroyed her. However deception, lying, corruption are now the norm therefore Parliament has become almost pointless.

The ECHR thing is now being branded as a EU / Brexit war when this little beauty sums it up nicely

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1537001895365120000?s=21&t=ktAL1_Vay1bl9INT7AeyVQ

I remember one ECHR ruling, they ruled it violated British soldiers' human rights to not give them body armour.

A good example to bring up to the flag ****gers who would want to do away with it.

[ronaldo7]

just had a wee sketch at the article, i do like the description given for Johnson Lord Geidt, the ultimate stooge, struggles to maintain the illusion of authority | John Crace | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/14/lord-geidt-ultimate-establishment-stooge-struggles-maintain-illusion-of-authority)


Convict

Johnson loses another ethics advisor.

Eventually had to go with all the tory corruption, partying, and people trafficking.

[Bostonhibby]

Johnson loses another ethics advisor.

Eventually had to go with all the tory corruption, partying, and people trafficking.To be fair being in charge of ethics for the Nasty party was never going to work.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

just had a wee sketch at the article, i do like the description given for Johnson Lord Geidt, the ultimate stooge, struggles to maintain the illusion of authority | John Crace | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/14/lord-geidt-ultimate-establishment-stooge-struggles-maintain-illusion-of-authority)


Convict
Crace is quite good at nicknames (he coined 'Maybot'). Regularly refers now to Patel as just 'Vacant'.

[Pretty Boy]

We are now living in a live action version of Animal Farm.

If you don't like the rules just rewrite them.

Johnson isn't smart enough to be Napoleon though, stupid enough to be Boxer albeit without the work ethic or empathy. Maybe Squealer suits him best, a fat, white porker.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We are now living in a live action version of Animal Farm.

If you don't like the rules just rewrite them.

Johnson isn't smart enough to be Napoleon though, stupid enough to be Boxer albeit without the work ethic or empathy. Maybe Squealer suits him best, a fat, white porker.

:top marks

[Hibernia&Alba]

This is what we are up against: unapologetic cruelty and bigotry:


https://youtu.be/M_dg412JvTw

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/tony_diver/status/1537439707818209280?s=21&t=p805ep62gyTgZgL2_Vskzw

[emoji102]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

This is what we are up against: unapologetic cruelty and bigotry:


https://youtu.be/M_dg412JvTw"Incandescent"

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

I can empathize with the right-wingers and Tory voters on .net if they might not want to spend much time on this thread (I felt very much the same defending Corbyn on the Labour party thread before he got to put his feet up and work on his allotment again) but I'm genuinely interested as to what kind of defence you can muster for this government at this point in time? Is the UK developing in the way you'd like it to to under this administration, if so, how and if not, why?

[Hibernia&Alba]

"Incandescent"

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Seething, pure raging, beelin' :lolrangers:

[Bostonhibby]

"Incandescent"

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkNo mean feat when you consider his head's firmly stuck in a biscuit tin whilst he beats the tin with a truncheon.

Maybe Bozo has found his new ethics gadgy as he sounds like he comes from Basildon?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/tony_diver/status/1537439707818209280?s=21&t=p805ep62gyTgZgL2_Vskzw

[emoji102]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is ****ing incredible!

[Ozyhibby]

That is ****ing incredible!

Vote for me, I’m not quite as bad as Harold Shipman. [emoji51]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

I can empathize with the right-wingers and Tory voters on .net if they might not want to spend much time on this thread (I felt very much the same defending Corbyn on the Labour party thread before he got to put his feet up and work on his allotment again) but I'm genuinely interested as to what kind of defence you can muster for this government at this point in time? Is the UK developing in the way you'd like it to to under this administration, if so, how and if not, why?

Because we should agree with "the sentiment" of their stated policies that they never do a stroke to invoke?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Nailed it. We can't just give up


https://youtu.be/40dVrc64x6o

[Keith_M]

“there are no ethics in Boris Johnson’s Downing Street”

Angela Raynor.


“Boris Johnson has no ethics, so it’s no surprise he wants to scrap his ethics adviser.”

Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey


Wow, I just agreed with a Labour and a Lib-Dem politician.

[hibsbollah]

Because we should agree with "the sentiment" of their stated policies that they never do a stroke to invoke?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Do you mean ‘levelling up’, which I DO agree with us a general philosophy (probably because it sounds like Socialism). But I doubt that new ideological push to win Middlesbrough Mick is what drove the Tories that post on here to vote Tory though. So what is it? If all those rampant free markets aren’t free any more and greed doesn’t make you richer, then what’s the point?

[Hibernia&Alba]

James O'Brien is bang on here, IMO. Who can really claim to represent 'British values'?


https://youtu.be/CvY1zWUOs8E

[Bostonhibby]

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1537349506987180033?t=TPlonWwGcUsBNXbvgIrnpA&s=08

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

James O'Brien is bang on here, IMO. Who can really claim to represent 'British values'?


https://youtu.be/CvY1zWUOs8E

The absence of actual factual analysis like this is why the main TV channels are failing their viewers. Absolutely indisputable, all of it:top marks

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1537753843420876801?s=21&t=VQj06EqQvtWu_aitfHM55w
Interesting thread on Johnson always making a call to Zelensky when he’s in crisis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/Iblogtoglasgow/status/1537515054207205380?t=HCxIfbF4kHHc8EEL4yzyWw&s=19


Lying? Or giving sturgeon the chance to ask for the S30 because "people everywhere has the right to decide their own future"

[ronaldo7]

The Attorney General telling more porkies. They have no shame.

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1537676871801905153

[Hibernia&Alba]

The Attorney General telling more porkies. They have no shame.

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1537676871801905153

It is incredible. She even says the NI Protocol must be changed because Northern Ireland is struggling and trade badly suffering. That is a lie: Northern Ireland and London are the only parts of the UK to experience growth since Brexit.

[Hibernia&Alba]

How do you manage to lose two ethics advisors in a matter of days? Well, by being totally corrupt.


https://youtu.be/IAVP9wET4dw

[Keith_M]

Boris Johnson probably thinks Ethics is an English county, near Thuthics.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://youtu.be/0b9mFCLEgMI

[Callum_62]

The real victim

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1538079837260333056?t=hpGOQ-8CK4sVyhXWsxgb6Q&s=19

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1537842907427774465

Heartbreaking account from the refugee camps in Northern France. Yes they are afraid of being sent to Rwanda, as they are losing there lives in boats. But they are still determined to get to safety

[hibsbollah]

It’s hard to believe this country. Electronic tags for those fleeing war fundamentalist oppression and torture. And we have the nerve to channel Paddington Bear as a National marketing tool.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It’s hard to believe this country. Electronic tags for those fleeing war fundamentalist oppression and torture. And we have the nerve to channel Paddington Bear as a National marketing tool.

I think the Brexit result has emboldened those with the darkest instincts. They have ratcheted up the racism and xenophobia and see the current climate as their opportunity to push home their agenda. The law, logic and humanity are cast aside. This is exactly what the likes of Farage meant by 'taking back control'.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Marr calls out the racist Rwanda policy for the crass right wing populism it is. Ukrainians, good refugees; Syrians, undesirables. No Ukrainians to be sent to Rwanda.



https://youtu.be/bjnSGNFqamo

[Torto7]

Opinion polling makes depressing. 40%+ approve of the Rwanda deportations, goes firmly on Party lines, 73% Tories support the policy and 71% of Labour supporters disapprove (dunno if it’s more depressing that 73% of Tories do or c29% of Labour voters do).

I understand racism, it’s always been there, but I don’t understand the revelling in the blatant immorality of it. They are all enjoying themselves so much.

England's different to Scotland. There's a tendency up here to be holier than though when it comes to immigration/refugees but we haven't went through the seismic changes England has.

London now has black Caribbean flight to the estuaries and further North partially due to economic reasons but a large part is trying to escape the hostile areas. Some of the people coming in from Eritrea/Albania/Ethiopia/Somalia i.e war torn places have turned large parts of London into no go areas. My wife has family in Lambeth. One story that didn't make the press during lockdown was the mass riot between Eritreans and Ethiopians after the council decided to home families who historically hated one another(it would be like placing hardcore loyalists and nationalists on the same housing estate in Northern Ireland) another area of concern should be the domestic Indian and Pakistani communities if Pakistan and India ever goes to war. Do we have a plan of action for that?

I can't stand Bob MCGammon face but they simply lack the ability to explain their fear, some of which is justified and some of which isn't. The simple approach of labelling anyone who questions migratory patterns as racist into what is a small island is equally as idiotic as being hostile to anyone from outside that does come eventually here.

Certain things don't add up for me. We're told that immigrants are net contributors yet wages have been stagnant for a long time especially at the bottom and middle of the economy, a large reason for that is the simplicity of Tesco(pre Brexit) for example advertising NMW jobs in say Poland and flooding warehouses with willing workers. Who does that benefit ultimately? My first job was for Sainsburys and having a quick look at the market it seems I had better working conditions 20 odd years ago there than people do now. British industry has got drunk on easy Labour. I think it's common sense to have a as needed approach to immigration and refugees. As tough as that is. None of what I posted above is the fault of the migrant, it's the fault of lazy greedy industry leaders and bureaucrats. British people(including migrants) will take jobs in the care sector/NHS etc if they can be paid adequately for doing so. Immigration and the labelling of anyone questioning it as racist is a cop out for the wealthy corporations.

Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to the future and what we consider to be binding traits of being British might not apply to people from elsewhere. I like multi cultural Britain but it also worries me.

[Ozyhibby]

England's different to Scotland. There's a tendency up here to be holier than though when it comes to immigration/refugees but we haven't went through the seismic changes England has.

London now has black Caribbean flight to the estuaries and further North partially due to economic reasons but a large part is trying to escape the hostile areas. Some of the people coming in from Eritrea/Albania/Ethiopia/Somalia i.e war torn places have turned large parts of London into no go areas. My wife has family in Lambeth. One story that didn't make the press during lockdown was the mass riot between Eritreans and Ethiopians after the council decided to home families who historically hated one another(it would be like placing hardcore loyalists and nationalists on the same housing estate in Northern Ireland) another area of concern should be the domestic Indian and Pakistani communities if Pakistan and India ever goes to war. Do we have a plan of action for that?

I can't stand Bob MCGammon face but they simply lack the ability to explain their fear, some of which is justified and some of which isn't. The simple approach of labelling anyone who questions migratory patterns as racist into what is a small island is equally as idiotic as being hostile to anyone from outside that does come eventually here.

Certain things don't add up for me. We're told that immigrants are net contributors yet wages have been stagnant for a long time especially at the bottom and middle of the economy, a large reason for that is the simplicity of Tesco(pre Brexit) for example advertising NMW jobs in say Poland and flooding warehouses with willing workers. Who does that benefit ultimately? My first job was for Sainsburys and having a quick look at the market it seems I had better working conditions 20 odd years ago there than people do now. British industry has got drunk on easy Labour. I think it's common sense to have a as needed approach to immigration and refugees. As tough as that is. None of what I posted above is the fault of the migrant, it's the fault of lazy greedy industry leaders and bureaucrats. British people(including migrants) will take jobs in the care sector/NHS etc if they can be paid adequately for doing so. Immigration and the labelling of anyone questioning it as racist is a cop out for the wealthy corporations.

Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to the future and what we consider to be binding traits of being British might not apply to people from elsewhere. I like multi cultural Britain but it also worries me.

Most countries in Europe have higher immigration than the UK but also have higher working conditions. One does not necessarily follow the other. The make up of the UK economy is highly skewed in favour of the people who own companies at the expense of the people who work in them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

England's different to Scotland. There's a tendency up here to be holier than though when it comes to immigration/refugees but we haven't went through the seismic changes England has.

London now has black Caribbean flight to the estuaries and further North partially due to economic reasons but a large part is trying to escape the hostile areas. Some of the people coming in from Eritrea/Albania/Ethiopia/Somalia i.e war torn places have turned large parts of London into no go areas. My wife has family in Lambeth. One story that didn't make the press during lockdown was the mass riot between Eritreans and Ethiopians after the council decided to home families who historically hated one another(it would be like placing hardcore loyalists and nationalists on the same housing estate in Northern Ireland) another area of concern should be the domestic Indian and Pakistani communities if Pakistan and India ever goes to war. Do we have a plan of action for that?

I can't stand Bob MCGammon face but they simply lack the ability to explain their fear, some of which is justified and some of which isn't. The simple approach of labelling anyone who questions migratory patterns as racist into what is a small island is equally as idiotic as being hostile to anyone from outside that does come eventually here.

Certain things don't add up for me. We're told that immigrants are net contributors yet wages have been stagnant for a long time especially at the bottom and middle of the economy, a large reason for that is the simplicity of Tesco(pre Brexit) for example advertising NMW jobs in say Poland and flooding warehouses with willing workers. Who does that benefit ultimately? My first job was for Sainsburys and having a quick look at the market it seems I had better working conditions 20 odd years ago there than people do now. British industry has got drunk on easy Labour. I think it's common sense to have a as needed approach to immigration and refugees. As tough as that is. None of what I posted above is the fault of the migrant, it's the fault of lazy greedy industry leaders and bureaucrats. British people(including migrants) will take jobs in the care sector/NHS etc if they can be paid adequately for doing so. Immigration and the labelling of anyone questioning it as racist is a cop out for the wealthy corporations.

Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to the future and what we consider to be binding traits of being British might not apply to people from elsewhere. I like multi cultural Britain but it also worries me.

London has the highest % of immigrants and voted remain and is labour dominant. I'm in Dorset now and then, one of the whitest areas in the uk and certainly less immigrants than Edinburgh. They vote tory and strongly leave.

It's just a simple fact that immigrants give more in tax than they take out of a nation. The uk is aging, but aren't having enough children. Immigrants are heavily weighted to being younger and having children. It's what we need to pay the pensions.

[hibsbollah]

England's different to Scotland. There's a tendency up here to be holier than though when it comes to immigration/refugees but we haven't went through the seismic changes England has.

London now has black Caribbean flight to the estuaries and further North partially due to economic reasons but a large part is trying to escape the hostile areas. Some of the people coming in from Eritrea/Albania/Ethiopia/Somalia i.e war torn places have turned large parts of London into no go areas. My wife has family in Lambeth. One story that didn't make the press during lockdown was the mass riot between Eritreans and Ethiopians after the council decided to home families who historically hated one another(it would be like placing hardcore loyalists and nationalists on the same housing estate in Northern Ireland) another area of concern should be the domestic Indian and Pakistani communities if Pakistan and India ever goes to war. Do we have a plan of action for that?

I can't stand Bob MCGammon face but they simply lack the ability to explain their fear, some of which is justified and some of which isn't. The simple approach of labelling anyone who questions migratory patterns as racist into what is a small island is equally as idiotic as being hostile to anyone from outside that does come eventually here.

Certain things don't add up for me. We're told that immigrants are net contributors yet wages have been stagnant for a long time especially at the bottom and middle of the economy, a large reason for that is the simplicity of Tesco(pre Brexit) for example advertising NMW jobs in say Poland and flooding warehouses with willing workers. Who does that benefit ultimately? My first job was for Sainsburys and having a quick look at the market it seems I had better working conditions 20 odd years ago there than people do now. British industry has got drunk on easy Labour. I think it's common sense to have a as needed approach to immigration and refugees. As tough as that is. None of what I posted above is the fault of the migrant, it's the fault of lazy greedy industry leaders and bureaucrats. British people(including migrants) will take jobs in the care sector/NHS etc if they can be paid adequately for doing so. Immigration and the labelling of anyone questioning it as racist is a cop out for the wealthy corporations.

Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to the future and what we consider to be binding traits of being British might not apply to people from elsewhere. I like multi cultural Britain but it also worries me.

There's far too much to disagree with here to challenge all of it, but I just don't recognise what you're describing. ' No-go areas' is just nonsense redtop talk...and when it does exist it has nothing to do with race, everything to do with deprivation. My girlfriend lived between Hulme and Moss Side in the 90s when the Daily Mail described it as a no go area, sorry but it was a sound welcoming place even at night, it was just full of people but probably 50% ORIGINALLY from the Caribbean but now black British. When you're describing Black Caribbean flight away from urban areas, I don't even know what this means, they are 2nd or 3rd generation now, they're British and should be described as such. When does a Scottish girl with a Scottish accent who moved here as a baby with her Slovak parents from the accession countries in 2001 and is still still Slovak born and still 1st generation immigrant, does SHe get to be called British or Scottish instead of an immigrant?

[Stairway 2 7]

Dan hodges is from the mail, OBrien St Andrews uni is spot on

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·
Have we actually reached the stage where electronically tagging people trying to find refuge in the U.K. is being put forward as the moderate option by the populists

(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
· 9h
No-one on the liberal Left ever answers this basic question. What do we actually do about illegal migration. Camps? No. Tags? No. Police in enforcement vans? No. Deportation flights? No. So what does a system of managed migration actually look like.

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·
5h
Was sent this populist riposte as if it’s clever. Here’s what you do. You treat them with dignity, examine their claims, and integrate as many as possible into a society that it actually crying out for workers

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·

The U.K. doesnt have an immigration problem. It has a political problem appealing to anti immigrant opinion. Actually the U.K. (and particularly Scotland) is in real need of immigration

[Pretty Boy]

There's far too much to disagree with here to challenge all of it, but I just don't recognise what you're describing. ' No-go areas' is just nonsense redtop talk...and when it does exist it has nothing to do with race, everything to do with deprivation. My girlfriend lived between Hulme and Moss Side in the 90s when the Daily Mail described it as a no go area, sorry but it was a sound welcoming place even at night, it was just full of people but probably 50% ORIGINALLY from the Caribbean but now black British. When you're describing Black Caribbean flight away from urban areas, I don't even know what this means, they are 2nd or 3rd generation now, they're British and should be described as such. When does a Scottish girl with a Scottish accent who moved here as a baby with her Slovak parents from the accession countries in 2001 and is still still Slovak born and still 1st generation immigrant, does SHe get to be called British or Scottish instead of an immigrant?

I'm not sure if it's the correct term but I think 'self ID' plays a big part in your last question and how people perceive both themselves and others.

I went to school with dozens of people from Italian backgrounds, across the entrity of my high school it was probably 3 figures. Most of them were 3rd or even 4th generation. Among the many in my friendship group only a handful spoke any Italian at all. Yet all of them identified themselves as Italan or Italian-Scots. If Italy played Scotland at football or rugby their support was firmly for the Azzuri. Many of them have children themselves now and there does seem to be a shift. The Inter, Juventus and Italy stops are still in evidence but there are Hibs, Celtic and Scotland tops on show as well

My own daughter is at nursery now and starts school in August. Among her classmates is a healthy number of 2nd and 3rd generation Poles. Most of them do still speak Polish as well as English fluently and it's not uncommon to hear their parents speak to them in Polish when dropping off and picking up. I also work with a lady who was born in Edinburgh not long after her parents moved over in the early 00s. When she speaks in English she is pure Leith, when she speaks to one of our Polish colleagues she is pure Warsaw. She still calls herself Polish.

I'm not really sure of the point I'm making here beyond the fact that a lot of people I have encountered want to hang onto their cultural and ethnic background. They don't want to be forever immigrants but I'm not sure they want to be Scots, new Scots, Brits or whatever else either. I suppose the obvious solution is to let people describe themselves as whatever they like. If someone with Pakistani grandparents wants to be Pakistani then great, if they want to be Scottish great and if they want to be Pakistani-Scots then that's fine too.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Dan hodges is from the mail, OBrien St Andrews uni is spot on

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·
Have we actually reached the stage where electronically tagging people trying to find refuge in the U.K. is being put forward as the moderate option by the populists

(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
· 9h
No-one on the liberal Left ever answers this basic question. What do we actually do about illegal migration. Camps? No. Tags? No. Police in enforcement vans? No. Deportation flights? No. So what does a system of managed migration actually look like.

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·
5h
Was sent this populist riposte as if it’s clever. Here’s what you do. You treat them with dignity, examine their claims, and integrate as many as possible into a society that it actually crying out for workers

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·

The U.K. doesnt have an immigration problem. It has a political problem appealing to anti immigrant opinion. Actually the U.K. (and particularly Scotland) is in real need of immigration

Is it Hodges that is Glenda Jackson's son?

[Stairway 2 7]

Is it Hodges that is Glenda Jackson's son?

Yep bit of a half arsed Kate Hopkins nowadays. He was originally in labour. Says he's a Blairite although backed boris and yvete Cooper, although i guess all 3 are similar. Writes for telegraph and the mail

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/18/who-needs-ethics-advisers-when-your-aim-is-to-keep-your-party-in-power

Good article on the self serving tories

[stoneyburn hibs]

I can empathize with the right-wingers and Tory voters on .net if they might not want to spend much time on this thread (I felt very much the same defending Corbyn on the Labour party thread before he got to put his feet up and work on his allotment again) but I'm genuinely interested as to what kind of defence you can muster for this government at this point in time? Is the UK developing in the way you'd like it to to under this administration, if so, how and if not, why?

Tumbleweed
Pathetic.

[hibsbollah]

I'm not sure if it's the correct term but I think 'self ID' plays a big part in your last question and how people perceive both themselves and others.

I went to school with dozens of people from Italian backgrounds, across the entrity of my high school it was probably 3 figures. Most of them were 3rd or even 4th generation. Among the many in my friendship group only a handful spoke any Italian at all. Yet all of them identified themselves as Italan or Italian-Scots. If Italy played Scotland at football or rugby their support was firmly for the Azzuri. Many of them have children themselves now and there does seem to be a shift. The Inter, Juventus and Italy stops are still in evidence but there are Hibs, Celtic and Scotland tops on show as well

My own daughter is at nursery now and starts school in August. Among her classmates is a healthy number of 2nd and 3rd generation Poles. Most of them do still speak Polish as well as English fluently and it's not uncommon to hear their parents speak to them in Polish when dropping off and picking up. I also work with a lady who was born in Edinburgh not long after her parents moved over in the early 00s. When she speaks in English she is pure Leith, when she speaks to one of our Polish colleagues she is pure Warsaw. She still calls herself Polish.

I'm not really sure of the point I'm making here beyond the fact that a lot of people I have encountered want to hang onto their cultural and ethnic background. They don't want to be forever immigrants but I'm not sure they want to be Scots, new Scots, Brits or whatever else either. I suppose the obvious solution is to let people describe themselves as whatever they like. If someone with Pakistani grandparents wants to be Pakistani then great, if they want to be Scottish great and if they want to be Pakistani-Scots then that's fine too.

All good, but the key thing here is you get to decide how to ID yourself, by yourself, not have those labels imposed on you by someone else.

[Just Alf]

https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1538131063318388737?t=SCJussef9zffkLWQ-HbY1Q&s=19

Boris Johnson at it again... jobs for the boy/girls.

Also stinks that it looks like the press have had their arms twisted to remove their articles.

[JimBHibees]

I think the Brexit result has emboldened those with the darkest instincts. They have ratcheted up the racism and xenophobia and see the current climate as their opportunity to push home their agenda. The law, logic and humanity are cast aside. This is exactly what the likes of Farage meant by 'taking back control'.

Pretty much this trying to drag everyone back to a 50s utopia that never existed.

[lucky]

I'm not sure if it's the correct term but I think 'self ID' plays a big part in your last question and how people perceive both themselves and others.

I went to school with dozens of people from Italian backgrounds, across the entrity of my high school it was probably 3 figures. Most of them were 3rd or even 4th generation. Among the many in my friendship group only a handful spoke any Italian at all. Yet all of them identified themselves as Italan or Italian-Scots. If Italy played Scotland at football or rugby their support was firmly for the Azzuri. Many of them have children themselves now and there does seem to be a shift. The Inter, Juventus and Italy stops are still in evidence but there are Hibs, Celtic and Scotland tops on show as well

My own daughter is at nursery now and starts school in August. Among her classmates is a healthy number of 2nd and 3rd generation Poles. Most of them do still speak Polish as well as English fluently and it's not uncommon to hear their parents speak to them in Polish when dropping off and picking up. I also work with a lady who was born in Edinburgh not long after her parents moved over in the early 00s. When she speaks in English she is pure Leith, when she speaks to one of our Polish colleagues she is pure Warsaw. She still calls herself Polish.

I'm not really sure of the point I'm making here beyond the fact that a lot of people I have encountered want to hang onto their cultural and ethnic background. They don't want to be forever immigrants but I'm not sure they want to be Scots, new Scots, Brits or whatever else either. I suppose the obvious solution is to let people describe themselves as whatever they like. If someone with Pakistani grandparents wants to be Pakistani then great, if they want to be Scottish great and if they want to be Pakistani-Scots then that's fine too.

Excellent post, the simple fact people are people. Some good some bad but we are people.

[hibsbollah]

Tumbleweed
Pathetic.

Yes, I'm not trying to start.a 'pile on the tory', I'm wondering what keeps you believing in the morality of your own arguments at this point.

[Since90+2]

Yes, I'm not trying to start.a 'pile on the tory', I'm wondering what keeps you believing in the morality of your own arguments at this point.

To be fair, I don't think there are many, if any at all, Tory voters on this forum.

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1538131063318388737?t=SCJussef9zffkLWQ-HbY1Q&s=19

Boris Johnson at it again... jobs for the boy/girls.

Also stinks that it looks like the press have had their arms twisted to remove their articles.

Scandal of the Week. Don’t worry, there will be another along next week and the week after.

[hibsbollah]

To be fair, I don't think there are many, if any at all, Tory voters on this forum.

There’s definitely a few. Not surprising when 20% of Scots still intend to vote for them.

[lapsedhibee]

Scandal of the Week. Don’t worry, there will be another along next week and the week after.

If it was down to one a week that'd be a marked improvement.

[Bostonhibby]

Scandal of the Week. Don’t worry, there will be another along next week and the week after.How can any of this be true when I've seen loads of photo opportunities with Bozo in Ukraine this week?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Yes, I'm not trying to start.a 'pile on the tory', I'm wondering what keeps you believing in the morality of your own arguments at this point.

As with every party, there are different reasons why people vote for them. I've just been thinking, and I don't think I even know anyone who votes Tory; even the unionist Jambos I know wouldn't vote for them. I'm sure some people vote for them because they believe the Tories are better at managing the economy or stronger on law and order, for example. That's fair enough; everyone will have their own views on the issues. The Tories I cannot abide are the nasty pieces of work, such as those who love the Rwanda policy, for example, or love the idea of kicking needy people off welfare. The Sun/Daily Mail types who thinks Tory governments can never be too cruel, and are filled with anger, fear and misanthropy. The type Teresa May called the nasty party.

I think Scottish Tories largely tend to be more moderate centre-right types, not the swivel eyed loons of the Tory heartlands. Of course the exception are the Sevconians; the Tories amongst them seem to think being as right wing as possible is being staunchly British. Bigotry comes naturally to them.

[Just Alf]

I think Scottish Tories largely tend to be more moderate centre-right types, not the swivel eyed loons of the Tory heartlands. Of course the exception are the Sevconians; the Tories amongst them seem to think being as right wing as possible is being staunchly British. Bigotry comes naturally to them.


This is how I see it as well, it's why I think they could do surprisingly well in an iScotland and why I'm keen to hear what their Scottish supporters think of stuff ... from things like the 'Boris' debacles to why they think that they can do better in the union than if they were in government here themselves and not tied to Westminster.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Did Bozo try to get his mistress (now wife) a very nice job in the Foreign Office when he was Foreign Secretary, and why has the Tory press pulled the story?


https://youtu.be/aX2XFpxsujg

[Since90+2]

Did Bozo try to get his mistress (now wife) a very nice job in the Foreign Office when he was Foreign Secretary, and why has the Tory press pulled the story?


https://youtu.be/aX2XFpxsujg

He's brought the whole idea of standards in public office crashing down in the space of a few years. He's destroying democracy and some sections of the press seem complicit.

We sometimes read about other countries and how their media are controlled, it's the same here. Look at how Corbyn was treated compared to Johnson.