Shelly Kerr

[Sauzeesleftfoot]

Has there ever been a more inarticulate pundit than Shelly Kerr??

Not only that her analysis is awful.

I completely agree with more gender balance in football, however England have Alex Scott, who is articulate, understands the game, likeable and relatable, compared to Skeletor in Scotland.....

[Danderhall Hibs]

There’s probably been more inarticulate (Derek Ferguson) but she is terrible. Speaks in cliche and adds nothing to the analysis.

I’m not bothered about women pundits - as long as they can give me something I didn’t know (same goes for the men pundits).

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Has there ever been a more inarticulate pundit than Shelly Kerr??

Not only that her analysis is awful.

I completely agree with more gender balance in football, however England have Alex Scott, who is articulate, understands the game, likeable and relatable, compared to Skeletor in Scotland.....

Alex Scott is adorable. Surely to goodness sake there must be a bonnie lass from the Scottish womens set up who could do some punditry? :confused:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Alex Scott is adorable. Surely to goodness sake there must be a bonnie lass from the Scottish womens set up who could do some punditry? :confused:

She doesn’t need to be tidy - just insightful. I don’t think Gary Neville got the MNF job due to his looks.

[hibbysam]

Genuinely think we’ve got the worst pundits and commentators in world football. Shame Darren Fletcher got the job at United as he was really good on Sky at the start of the season.

Stuck with idiots like Boyd, Kerr, Stewart, Craigan, Hartson, Rae, Provan, Walker - the list goes on. Thankfully Commons is a goner as him and Boyd together was unbearable.

[bingo70]

She doesn’t need to be tidy - just insightful. I don’t think Gary Neville got the MNF job due to his looks.

What about Jamie Redknapp?

[Danderhall Hibs]

What about Jamie Redknapp?

Married to Louise who was tidy.

[bingo70]

Genuinely think we’ve got the worst pundits and commentators in world football. Shame Darren Fletcher got the job at United as he was really good on Sky at the start of the season.

Stuck with idiots like Boyd, Kerr, Stewart, Craigan, Hartson, Rae, Provan, Walker - the list goes on. Thankfully Commons is a goner as him and Boyd together was unbearable.

I’ve always had a tin foil what mentality when it comes to sky and Scottish football.

I think it suits their agenda to have folk like Andy Walker and Davie Provan talking down our game so kids prefer English clubs instead.

I don’t know what BBC’s excuse is though.

[bingo70]

Married to Louise who was tidy.

Fair point.

[Sauzeesleftfoot]

Married to Louise who was tidy.

Bore off and come back with opinions relevant to 2021 🖕

[Danderhall Hibs]

Bore off and come back with opinions relevant to 2021 🖕

Only if you promise to read my first post replying and agreeing with you 1st...

[Jones28]

She sounds like her male contemporaries who speak in cliches. I don’t find gender relevant in punditry, insight is the only thing I want to hear from people taking about sport.

[Danderhall Hibs]

She sounds like her male contemporaries who speak in cliches. I don’t find gender relevant in punditry, insight is the only thing I want to hear from people taking about sport.

Correct. If you’ve not seen it go and watch the “analysis” of the ICT game last night. Absolute drivel - “he won’t be happy with that” style rubbish.

[bingo70]

Correct. If you’ve not seen it go and watch the “analysis” of the ICT game last night. Absolute drivel - “he won’t be happy with that” style rubbish.

Disgusting attitude stuck in the dark ages you sexist pig.

[Brightside]

She’s very poor on TV. No worse than the majority on TV but she shouldn’t be doing prime time. Plenty other options.

[bingo70]

She’s very poor on TV. No worse than the majority on TV but she shouldn’t be doing prime time. Plenty other options.

Disagree. I’d say she is worse than the majority on TV.

[SMAXXA]

She’s terrible as is Caldwell.

[Mr Grieves]

Maybe just me but Caldwell was, by far, the worst person on sportscene tonight.

[SMAXXA]

Also who was the commentator on the Hamilton game ffs just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse

[SMAXXA]

We all know they arnt on their for their abilities as the best people for the job they are on their because they are female and this whole gender equality has taken over. I’m all for ‘people’ being in roles on merit, male, female, straight, gay makes no odds but don’t try shoehorn someone into it ironically because of their gender. Am I the only one who things it’s a big contradiction in hiring people because they are female? BBC ‘ to be seen as inclusive, equally, diverse let’s go hire some females to up the Quota so no one can accuse us of anything’’. People are too nervous of discussing the subject incase they are seen as sexist etc, I personally don’t care it’s what I believe is going on and it’s for the wrong reasons.

[ekhibee]

Has there ever been a more inarticulate pundit than Shelly Kerr??

Not only that her analysis is awful.

I completely agree with more gender balance in football, however England have Alex Scott, who is articulate, understands the game, likeable and relatable, compared to Skeletor in Scotland.....

Disagree as far as Alex Scott goes, not really got any time for her at all, but agree about Kerr as well. Mind you, Gary Caldwell comes across as being worse than both of them. For me the lassie on Hibs TV who does the half time analysis is quite good, but that's just my opinion. Crighton's another one that's really poor. For me, a lot of Scottish women 'football analysts' seem to spend too much time copying the style of some really poor male counterparts and subsequently come across as not particularly bright when that's not necessarily the case in reality.

[Brightside]

I think the point is that most of the males on the show are poor also. Ignore the gender. She’s not very good. Caldwell isn’t very good.

[hibbydog]

Inarticulate is the right word to sum her up.

No, I’m not expecting Einstein to present a forensic analysis. But I’m sure we should expect more insightful comments than the uneducated cliches that are just an insult to our intelligence.

‘The boys done good’

Awful stuff

[Hibbyradge]

Alex Scott is adorable. Surely to goodness sake there must be a bonnie lass from the Scottish womens set up who could do some punditry? :confused:

What's being adorable or bonnie got to do with the ability to critique games of football?

Or have I been whooshed?

[Peevemor]

It's maybe nothing to do with anything, but I think Joelle Murray is absolutely fine on Hibs TV.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

She said tonight that there is one thing that a manager is happy with and that is not conceding and scoring a few goals. That's two surely??

[HoboHarry]

She said tonight that there is one thing that a manager is happy with and that is not conceding and scoring a few goals. That's two surely??

That's insightful stuff right there 😂😂

[Smartie]

It's maybe nothing to do with anything, but I think Joelle Murray is absolutely fine on Hibs TV.

I was going to mention that I think she’s good.

[majorhibs]

What's being adorable or bonnie got to do with the ability to critique games of football?

Or have I been whooshed?

Not whooshed, just you being you.

[CorrieHibs]

I’ve always had a tin foil what mentality when it comes to sky and Scottish football.

I think it suits their agenda to have folk like Andy Walker and Davie Provan talking down our game so kids prefer English clubs instead.

I don’t know what BBC’s excuse is though.

I share the same theory lol. Listening to Provan during the Scotland games was unbearable. So depressing. He souunded raging when we scored our equaliser against Israel.

I watched the highlights on Sportscene that night. And Mikey Stewart was the complete opposite.

Sky could get McCoist to commentate on Scotland games instead he is watching England matches on ITV/STV 🙄

[GreenCastle]

Genuinely think we’ve got the worst pundits and commentators in world football. Shame Darren Fletcher got the job at United as he was really good on Sky at the start of the season.

Stuck with idiots like Boyd, Kerr, Stewart, Craigan, Hartson, Rae, Provan, Walker - the list goes on. Thankfully Commons is a goner as him and Boyd together was unbearable.

Agreed - a really poor selection

Kerr is awful and not surprised she was sacked from National side. Should have left earlier as manager after failure of the World Cup performances. Caldwell is also poor and when I saw both of them together I thought time for some cliches.

Jane Lewis is actually really good and needs more airtime.

I like Stephen Thompson as he doesn’t take himself too seriously but I’ve watched some Spanish football and the insight at times from some commentators / co commentators is far superior.

[KeithTheHibby]

She sums up BBC Scotland’s football coverage. Amateur.

[James Stephen]

The issue with female pundits is they fail by the BBCs own definition - someone who has played at an equivalent or higher level, so their insight fails that basic test.

Personally, id rather we went back to having more journalists as pundits, more articulate and often more interesting, be they male or female. Few ex-players are good pundits.

In saying that in England, i listen to five live and one of the best pundits on it is karen carney, who is very insightful.

So ditch the stupid have to have been an ex player rule, which seems to have been ditched for the women pundits anyway, and get in good people, regardless of who they did or didnt play for.

[Scorrie]

I quite like McFadden as a pundit though. But Darren Fletcher was really good

[hibbysam]

I share the same theory lol. Listening to Provan during the Scotland games was unbearable. So depressing. He souunded raging when we scored our equaliser against Israel.

I watched the highlights on Sportscene that night. And Mikey Stewart was the complete opposite.

Sky could get McCoist to commentate on Scotland games instead he is watching England matches on ITV/STV 🙄

Stewart might sound the opposite, but his knowledge is horrendous. Countless times during a game he will come out with some utter nonsense, and listening to him and Craigan go on for nearly the whole second half yesterday about why Turnbull wasn’t in the Scotland squad was getting a bit much.

[hibbysam]

Agreed - a really poor selection

Kerr is awful and not surprised she was sacked from National side. Should have left earlier as manager after failure of the World Cup performances. Caldwell is also poor and when I saw both of them together I thought time for some cliches.

Jane Lewis is actually really good and needs more airtime.

I like Stephen Thompson as he doesn’t take himself too seriously but I’ve watched some Spanish football and the insight at times from some commentators / co commentators is far superior.

Think Jane Lewis speaks well enough but her knowledge again shows her up when doing interviews and presenting. Everything is so basic around our game, never hear any single expert talk about shape or small details that have big impacts on games. Premier sports was like Celtic tv last night with Strachan Stubbs and Stewart, and it’ll be like Rangers tv today no doubt with folk like Alec rae etc.

[Hibbyradge]

Not whooshed, just you being you.

:faf:

[The Baldmans Comb]

Shelly Kerr is only employed because she is a high profile woman so meets the criteria for gender equality._😥

Her analysis is poor, her delivery cliched and her knowledge basic and put her under any pressure and she just says the first thing that comes into her head such as "Scott Allan"....panic panic..... I must say something so he becomes "One of Scotland's most promising young players"....at 29.😂

I can't take her seriously as you are always reminded of 3:0 in the final world cup group game with 20 minutes to go where she flapped, flipped and panicked and had no idea how to close out a game with defensive sub's or closed ranks formations.

Joelle Murray is excellent but has no profile which is everything as far as broadcasters are concerned.

[hibstag]

I remember when She was on the 2019 Scottish Cup final panel Steve Clark had just been appointed and was on it too. They talked about the forthcoming womens world Cup and she said maybe the men would be able to emulate the women one day. Clark shot her the best eyebrow raised WTF look I've ever seen.She came across as someone who reads her own press and clueless.

Even a few weeks ago she came out with that Boyle had put his leg over the top of the county defender. Then claimed that wasn't touched and had dived... She covered all the bases in that one

[Iain G]

I remember when She was on the 2019 Scottish Cup final panel Steve Clark had just been appointed and was on it too. They talked about the forthcoming womens world Cup and she said maybe the men would be able to emulate the women one day. Clark shot her the best eyebrow raised WTF look I've ever seen.She came across as someone who reads her own press and clueless.

Even a few weeks ago she came out with that Boyle had put his leg over the top of the county defender. Then claimed that wasn't touched and had dived... She covered all the bases in that one

It's symptomatic of the BBC coverage. I don't know why they can't take some pride and joy in our game and instead seem to want to drain the enthusiasm out of it with the coverage and shocking quality of commentary. It's all just so bland! At least she isn't the talking shaved bawbag I suppose...

[matty_f]

Kerr and Caldwell on Friday night, then on Sportscene last night, were horrendous. Chuck in Pressley on the radio last night and you honestly would struggle to find three pundits more likely to have you falling asleep or switching off.

Kerr just uses cliches and often is just plain wrong in her comments (Scott Allan one of the best young midfielders in the country. He’s 29. She put Sean Welsh in the young category as well).

I’ve no problem with her credentials for being considered as a pundit and I’m all for better gender representation, and if these are the pundits (including Caldwell and Pressley) that the BBC are going to run with, then i hope they are supporting them with training to make them better.

[JimBHibees]

Genuinely think we’ve got the worst pundits and commentators in world football. Shame Darren Fletcher got the job at United as he was really good on Sky at the start of the season.

Stuck with idiots like Boyd, Kerr, Stewart, Craigan, Hartson, Rae, Provan, Walker - the list goes on. Thankfully Commons is a goner as him and Boyd together was unbearable.

Stewart is an excellent pundit, hugely unfair to lump him in with folk like Walker and Provan who genuinely must have got the Sky jobs because there were mates with Nicholas, jeez Alan McInally still gets a job from them.

[hibbysam]

Stewart is an excellent pundit, hugely unfair to lump him in with folk like Walker and Provan who genuinely must have got the Sky jobs because there were mates with Nicholas, jeez Alan McInally still gets a job from them.

In what way? He like all others gives absolutely no meaningful insight into games, teams, shapes, passages of play. His biomechanics and the likes are hilarious. He may be more enthusiastic about the game but I want my pundits to give me things I don’t know myself and Stewart is miles from that. If you listened to Mikey Stewart and Craigan last night and tbo cut ‘were getting value for money here’ then fair play.

[JimBHibees]

I’ve always had a tin foil what mentality when it comes to sky and Scottish football.

I think it suits their agenda to have folk like Andy Walker and Davie Provan talking down our game so kids prefer English clubs instead.

I don’t know what BBC’s excuse is though.

Nail on the head the Sky sports head Wakeling ? admitted as much that they were trying to talk Scottish football down. Compare and contrast with EPL and championship coverage which even the worst games get very little criticism.

[JimBHibees]

In what way? He like all others gives absolutely no meaningful insight into games, teams, shapes, passages of play. His biomechanics and the likes are hilarious. He may be more enthusiastic about the game but I want my pundits to give me things I don’t know myself and Stewart is miles from that. If you listened to Mikey Stewart and Craigan last night and tbo cut ‘were getting value for money here’ then fair play.

Personally think his analysis is decent and does analyse re shape etc. Didn't see him last night however he is miles clear of all the other dross you listed.

[JimBHibees]

In what way? He like all others gives absolutely no meaningful insight into games, teams, shapes, passages of play. His biomechanics and the likes are hilarious. He may be more enthusiastic about the game but I want my pundits to give me things I don’t know myself and Stewart is miles from that. If you listened to Mikey Stewart and Craigan last night and tbo cut ‘were getting value for money here’ then fair play.

Biomechanics ?

[JimBHibees]

Agreed - a really poor selection

Kerr is awful and not surprised she was sacked from National side. Should have left earlier as manager after failure of the World Cup performances. Caldwell is also poor and when I saw both of them together I thought time for some cliches.

Jane Lewis is actually really good and needs more airtime.

I like Stephen Thompson as he doesn’t take himself too seriously but I’ve watched some Spanish football and the insight at times from some commentators / co commentators is far superior.

actually think she is awful. Didn't see yesterday's coverage but have listened to her presenting sportsound and you would struggle to find anyone worse prepared. Constantly got names wrong and just didn't give the impression she had any real knowledge of the game

[Highwayman]

Shelly Kerr is awful,but so is Leanne Crichton and Julie Fleeting.They seem to have read The Book Of Worst Football Cliches and churn them out continuously.
I have nothing against women presenters.When I watched Match Of The Day thought Gabby Logan was far superior to the oily sycophantic Gary Linecker.
Can’t believe some posters think Jane Lewis is any good.She stutters and stammers and forgets what she started to say.
She hit the buffers of embarrassment one afternoon on Sportsound when trying to do a tribute to the late Tommy Docherty.She asked Michael Stewart how he got on with The Doc when he was at Manchester United.Fair play to Stewart instead of telling her to F*** Off he said through gritted teeth that he was at United a long time after The Doc.
IMO she should have got her jotters for sheer ignorance.

[Sir David Gray]

Shelly Kerr is awful,but so is Leanne Crichton and Julie Fleeting.They seem to have read The Book Of Worst Football Cliches and churn them out continuously.
I have nothing against women presenters.When I watched Match Of The Day thought Gabby Logan was far superior to the oily sycophantic Gary Linecker.
Can’t believe some posters think Jane Lewis is any good.She stutters and stammers and forgets what she started to say.
She hit the buffers of embarrassment one afternoon on Sportsound when trying to do a tribute to the late Tommy Docherty.She asked Michael Stewart how he got on with The Doc when he was at Manchester United.Fair play to Stewart instead of telling her to F*** Off he said through gritted teeth that he was at United a long time after The Doc.
IMO she should have got her jotters for sheer ignorance.

I really can't stand listening to Jane Lewis. She may have good knowledge but I really struggle to get past the constant "eh's" during every second sentence.

[WestCoastHibby]

I watched Kerr and Caldwell last night. Not seen Gary much on the TV and not convinced by him but he may improve given time.
Shelly Kerr has had enough practice now an she's very convincing; at being woeful.
Absolutely dire.

[AltheHibby]

It's the sheer ignorance of the laws of the game that gets me. "There wasn't much contact" for a penalty, when the laws allow the ref to award a penalty for contact. And that's another one they come out with: you are awarded free kicks and penalties. If you "won" them it suggests cheating to me.

At least on Alba I haven't a clue what they are saying so it's less annoying!

[hibbysam]

Biomechanics ?

When talking about a Motherwell player being sent off a few years ago started talking about biomechanics and the like. He’s a slaver just like the rest of them.

[GreenCastle]

Shelly Kerr is awful,but so is Leanne Crichton and Julie Fleeting.They seem to have read The Book Of Worst Football Cliches and churn them out continuously.
I have nothing against women presenters.When I watched Match Of The Day thought Gabby Logan was far superior to the oily sycophantic Gary Linecker.
Can’t believe some posters think Jane Lewis is any good.She stutters and stammers and forgets what she started to say.
She hit the buffers of embarrassment one afternoon on Sportsound when trying to do a tribute to the late Tommy Docherty.She asked Michael Stewart how he got on with The Doc when he was at Manchester United.Fair play to Stewart instead of telling her to F*** Off he said through gritted teeth that he was at United a long time after The Doc.
IMO she should have got her jotters for sheer ignorance.

I heard Jane Lewis recently on radio she was good but to be fair I’ve seen examples of her on TV and it’s the opposite.

Lots of folk complaining about the presenters - who do we think would be appropriate to listen to?

[Allant1981]

I heard Jane Lewis recently on radio she was good but to be fair I’ve seen examples of her on TV and it’s the opposite.

Lots of folk complaining about the presenters - who do we think would be appropriate to listen to?

In all honesty I think folk would moan on here if it was their own granny presenting the programme! Fwiw Shelley is actually very knowledgeable about the game, just doesn't come over very well on TV for some reason

[Stonewall]

I think Chris Iwelumo is excellent. Would like to see more of him.

[green day]

In all honesty I think folk would moan on here if it was their own granny presenting the programme! Fwiw Shelley is actually very knowledgeable about the game, just doesn't come over very well on TV for some reason

Which is the point being made in the thread.....:greengrin

There are many people who are very knowledgeable about football who should be nowhere near the telly, unfortunately some of them are on it all the time, and SK is one of them.

As for someone defending Jane Lewis, she is completely amateur, stuttering and tripping her lines up all the time.

Hounding people out of a job is not my style - but there simply must be better out there than the diddies we get on BBC and Radio Scotland.

[green day]

I think Chris Iwelumo is excellent. Would like to see more of him.

Agree 100%, excellent and insightful.

[J-C]

She sums up BBC Scotland’s football coverage. Amateur.

:agree:

This my take on it too, she's one of many piss poor pundits working at the BBC, little diversity when it comes to showing their true colours, just awful viewing and listening.

[Kato]

Even a few weeks ago she came out with that Boyle had put his leg over the top of the county defender. Then claimed that wasn't touched and had dived... She covered all the bases in that one

Totally contradicted herself with a penalty incident in the Celtc game when the defender was the one to put his leg in first.

[Coco Bryce]

Both her and Pressley are brutal.

[BILLYHIBS]

Don’t mind her tbh

Looks disinterested when other pundits are speaking

My spidey senses are tingling might be a jambo :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Don’t mind her tbh

Looks disinterested when other pundits are speaking

My spidey senses are tingling might be a jambo :greengrinTick the BBC Jambo box and you're in, the rest is irrelevant.[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[keep the faith]

Once you hear her say "brilliant" it's all you bloomin hear! Every 2nd word is "brilliant"

[Willis1875]

All I hear when she talks is the ‘I can definitely smell *****’ woman out of chewing the fat

[Keith_M]

A lot of ex players, male and female, are terrible as pundits. There needs to be a balance between knowing the game and being able to communicate reasonably well.

FWIW, I agree about Gabby Logan and thought she was a decent presenter.

[brog]

Michael Stewart is, IMO, mostly a fine analyst after the fact. However I'm glad to read some criticism on here as I think he's a poor co commentator, always trying to make smart a*se comments to his fellow commentator. He's also much less insightful when having to do it live though he's still way ahead of most when it comes to understanding what's happening.

[lord bunberry]

Shelly Kerr is awful,but so is Leanne Crichton and Julie Fleeting.They seem to have read The Book Of Worst Football Cliches and churn them out continuously.
I have nothing against women presenters.When I watched Match Of The Day thought Gabby Logan was far superior to the oily sycophantic Gary Linecker.
Can’t believe some posters think Jane Lewis is any good.She stutters and stammers and forgets what she started to say.
She hit the buffers of embarrassment one afternoon on Sportsound when trying to do a tribute to the late Tommy Docherty.She asked Michael Stewart how he got on with The Doc when he was at Manchester United.Fair play to Stewart instead of telling her to F*** Off he said through gritted teeth that he was at United a long time after The Doc.
IMO she should have got her jotters for sheer ignorance.
I don’t mid Leanne Chrichton, she’s improved the more she’s on. I only watch her on the Friday night live games and she always seems pretty decent. Obviously if it turns out she’s a Jambo, then I reserve the right to retract my praise of her. :greengrin

[matty_f]

I don’t mid Leanne Chrichton, she’s improved the more she’s on. I only watch her on the Friday night live games and she always seems pretty decent. Obviously if it turns out she’s a Jambo, then I reserve the right to retract my praise of her. :greengrin

I like her, she’s better than a lot of the pundits on there.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I like her, she’s better than a lot of the pundits on there.

Beat of a bad bunch is the best compliment I can give her.

Maybe they need to sack off the ex footballers and use journalists (male or female) or something. Articulate ones that can string a sentence together.

[J-C]

Beat of a bad bunch is the best compliment I can give her.

Maybe they need to sack off the ex footballers and use journalists (male or female) or something. Articulate ones that can string a sentence together.

Then you end up with erses like Tom English, no ta.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Then you end up with erses like Tom English, no ta.

Still better - it was his opinions we didn’t like not his delivery or knowledge.

If the best we’ve got is Kerr, Miller, Dodds or Preston then I’d rather we didn’t bother. Just commentate and end the programme.

[angus hibby]

Chris Iwelumo is a pretty decent pundit IMO.

[EI255]

Funny, I was thinking same today. Not only is her punditry poor but she looks, how can I put it,.... Haggered and worn out.

Classic BBC for you though.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[Since452]

Bring back Craig Patterson. Dissapeared off the face of the earth

[Andy74]

The reality is men’s football and women’s football are different.

Nothing wrong with that at all but if women are now pretty much mandatory as pundits in the men’s game then I’m afraid they aren’t going to be providing much professional insight, which is what pundits are largely there to do. In comparison to the top level of the men’s game you’d get much the same insight from anyone who’s played at juvenile level in the men’s game which I think is probably actually a bit higher a level than any of the female ex players have played.

If they are there to give the general chat that a journalist would then fair enough but most of the time that’s not really the case.

[Jones28]

Funny, I was thinking same today. Not only is her punditry poor but she looks, how can I put it,.... Haggered and worn out.

Classic BBC for you though.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Her qualities as a pundit can be raised without mentioning her appearance. Willie Miller has been getting a kicking for being a windbag, no one has mentioned his appearance.

[JoeT]

There’s probably been more inarticulate (Derek Ferguson) but she is terrible. Speaks in cliche and adds nothing to the analysis.

I’m not bothered about women pundits - as long as they can give me something I didn’t know (same goes for the men pundits).
I like Derek Ferguson. He's pretty self deprecating and delivers fair punditry. Agree Kerr is awful and Chris Iwelomo is in the same boat

[Andy74]

Her qualities as a pundit can be raised without mentioning her appearance. Willie Miller has been getting a kicking for being a windbag, no one has mentioned his appearance.

We got this the last time and then comments got deleted.

Since then I’ve seen many comments about how footballers or pundits look. Yes, it does happen and no one cares until it is a woman.

The thread you mention has a comment about Pressley’s face. Did you call that one out?

[JoeT]

I've never got past the slavering of Pressley to consciously think about his pus. Just remember him as more of a wrestler than a footballer. Thankfully Berra from the same WWF school is getting closer to retirement

[Hiber-nation]

Billy Dodds isn't half as bad as folk make out. At least he knows the players and can give some informed comment about shape, formation etc.

Iwelumo is pretty good as a pundit. Can't abide Shelley Kerr I'm afraid.

Alex Rae worst co-commentator by a mile.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The reality is men’s football and women’s football are different.

Nothing wrong with that at all but if women are now pretty much mandatory as pundits in the men’s game then I’m afraid they aren’t going to be providing much professional insight, which is what pundits are largely there to do. In comparison to the top level of the men’s game you’d get much the same insight from anyone who’s played at juvenile level in the men’s game which I think is probably actually a bit higher a level than any of the female ex players have played.

If they are there to give the general chat that a journalist would then fair enough but most of the time that’s not really the case.

There’s more insightful analysis on Quick Bang or Longbangers than there is on the bbc - to my knowledge none of them have played football at even juvenile level.

[Wakeyhibee]

The reality is men’s football and women’s football are different.

Nothing wrong with that at all but if women are now pretty much mandatory as pundits in the men’s game then I’m afraid they aren’t going to be providing much professional insight, which is what pundits are largely there to do. In comparison to the top level of the men’s game you’d get much the same insight from anyone who’s played at juvenile level in the men’s game which I think is probably actually a bit higher a level than any of the female ex players have played.

If they are there to give the general chat that a journalist would then fair enough but most of the time that’s not really the case.

Does that differ from Athlerics? Mens will always be of a higher standard due to the physicality same in football, yet the female pundits are just as qualified and as good as the men as it is the same discipline.

Kerr surely has done the same badges as the men and therefore should be able to provide some insight & knowledge on tactics etc...

I dont like what appears to be a quota to fill. It shouldn't matter if its 3 females or whatever so long as they are good and knowledgeable. It is relatively new in what has always been a Male dominated, if not exclusive role until now.

[BILLYHIBS]

What about the two clowns on Killie TV? 😃

[Allant1981]

Funny, I was thinking same today. Not only is her punditry poor but she looks, how can I put it,.... Haggered and worn out.

Classic BBC for you though.

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Male model yourself are you?

[Iggy Pope]

We got this the last time and then comments got deleted.

Since then I’ve seen many comments about how footballers or pundits look. Yes, it does happen and no one cares until it is a woman.

The thread you mention has a comment about Pressley’s face. Did you call that one out?

I’ve seen them too and I’m mystified that the HNA1 polis is not all over this dishing out deletions and infractions in the previous manner. Happened to me with not as much a passing comment from me on how she looked. I just thought she was a wummin that was better placed talking about wummins football. Pig that I am.

[Stonewall]

We got this the last time and then comments got deleted.

Since then I’ve seen many comments about how footballers or pundits look. Yes, it does happen and no one cares until it is a woman.

The thread you mention has a comment about Pressley’s face. Did you call that one out?

i’m sorry I can’t agree with this.

i don’t keep a score card but it really is clear that in all sorts of walks of life women are far more likely to be criticised for their appearance than men.

[Jones28]

[QUOTE=Andy74;6516370]We got this the last time and then comments got deleted.

Since then I’ve seen many comments about how footballers or pundits look. Yes, it does happen and no one cares until it is a woman.

The thread you mention has a comment about Pressley’s face. Did you call that one out?[/QUOTE

I did not see the post you mention actually.

I might be in a minority here but commenting on a woman’s appearance when she’s a tiny minority in an otherwise male dominated sport, including punditry, isn’t that sexist?

I’m genuinely asking the question and want some one to explain why it isn’t if you disagree.

[007]

There’s more insightful analysis on Quick Bang or Longbangers than there is on the bbc - to my knowledge none of them have played football at even juvenile level.

I'd say juvenile is their level. 🙃

[Tyler Durden]

BBC Scotland’s approach of having one male and one female is getting a bit silly. They could surely mix it up from time to time whilst still going from a diverse pool.

Although Kerr is rubbish, she is generally no worse than the average pundit on the BBC.

The only one I’ve seen recently who offered any genuine insight on tactics and offered something different was Shaun Maloney. I seem to remember even he was slated on here though as he “sounded posh”.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Male model yourself are you?

yeah bit of a cheapshot that’s going out with the dinosaurs.

[Andy74]

[QUOTE=Andy74;6516370]We got this the last time and then comments got deleted.

Since then I’ve seen many comments about how footballers or pundits look. Yes, it does happen and no one cares until it is a woman.

The thread you mention has a comment about Pressley’s face. Did you call that one out?[/QUOTE

I did not see the post you mention actually.

I might be in a minority here but commenting on a woman’s appearance when she’s a tiny minority in an otherwise male dominated sport, including punditry, isn’t that sexist?

I’m genuinely asking the question and want some one to explain why it isn’t if you disagree.

No it’s not. We are being asked to see them as an integral part of football. Men’s football. To do that then they also have to be treated no differently to anyone else.

There’s no shortage of men that we give stick to over how they look and that’s currently in addition to your Davie Dodds and Stevie Fulton’s. In the last few weeks we’ve certainly had the likes of Pressley, Morelos, Stuart Kettlewell getting mentions.

It is well meaning but it is nonsense.

[Andy74]

i’m sorry I can’t agree with this.

i don’t keep a score card but it really is clear that in all sorts of walks of life women are far more likely to be criticised for their appearance than men.

Usually by other women.

In terms of football I’d say that the men in men’s football are far more likely to be at the end of comments about their appearance than women.

In discussing equality this cause is a little misplaced I think.

[Jones28]

[QUOTE=Jones28;6516479]

No it’s not. We are being asked to see them as an integral part of football. Men’s football. To do that then they also have to be treated no differently to anyone else.

There’s no shortage of men that we give stick to over how they look and that’s currently in addition to your Davie Dodds and Stevie Fulton’s. In the last few weeks we’ve certainly had the likes of Pressley, Morelos, Stuart Kettlewell getting mentions.

It is well meaning but it is nonsense.

So a woman getting herself in to football is fair game just because she has the audacity to follow a dream and do something she enjoys?

Not even the slightest hint of “well maybe because this person is in a tiny minority in a male dominated area, and maybe because she comes from a group that sees every day sexism in almost all the environments she is likely to encounter regularly I should moderate my behaviour when I talk about her”?

Instead you can make comments on her appearance, despite the fact that her ineptitude as a pundit shines through so glowingly that I don’t think anything more needs said about her.

Someone on here recently made a comment about Brian Rices gambling addiction and was rightly slaughtered, and I feel this is similarly important - the only thing is that Shelley Kerr can’t change her looks, BR can do something about gambling addiction.

[Greenbeard]

Chris Iwelumo is a pretty decent pundit IMO.
And Shaun Maloney.
Gabs Logan is a class apart no matter what sport she covers but she is a presenter, not an analyst.
Eilidh Barbour is another top notch sports presenter.

[hibbysam]

[QUOTE=Andy74;6516536]

So a woman getting herself in to football is fair game just because she has the audacity to follow a dream and do something she enjoys?

Not even the slightest hint of “well maybe because this person is in a tiny minority in a male dominated area, and maybe because she comes from a group that sees every day sexism in almost all the environments she is likely to encounter regularly I should moderate my behaviour when I talk about her”?

Instead you can make comments on her appearance, despite the fact that her ineptitude as a pundit shines through so glowingly that I don’t think anything more needs said about her.

Someone on here recently made a comment about Brian Rices gambling addiction and was rightly slaughtered, and I feel this is similarly important - the only thing is that Shelley Kerr can’t change her looks, BR can do something about gambling addiction.

Last sentence is wrong. While he can do something about a gambling addiction, it’s extremely difficult to. Hence why it’s an addiction. Looks can be changed, through a variety of different means.

[hibbysam]

And Shaun Maloney.
Gabs Logan is a class apart no matter what sport she covers but she is a presenter, not an analyst.
Eilidh Barbour is another top notch sports presenter.

Shaun maloney, while clearly knowing his stuff, seems really awkward and depressing when speaking on the few times I’ve seen him on sportscene.

[Allant1981]

Why does a thread about female pundits always end up like this, can't it be discussed how good/bad they are without discussing her looks, I've only glimpsed at the Willie Miller thread but are there multiple posts about how he looks, I've known Shelley for a very long time as I'm friends with her sister and it's disgusting what some folk write about her, time for me to bow out

[My old man]

Married to Louise who was tidy.

Was tidy ???
She’s still tidy (in ma wee wurld) haha
GG2TH

[Since90+2]

Shelley Kerr is an awful pundit.

Michael Stewart is the best pundit in Scotland by a good distant IMO.

[hibbysam]

Why does a thread about female pundits always end up like this, can't it be discussed how good/bad they are without discussing her looks, I've only glimpsed at the Willie Miller thread but are there multiple posts about how he looks, I've known Shelley for a very long time as I'm friends with her sister and it's disgusting what some folk write about her, time for me to bow out

Willie Miller is a radio pundit, I’d imagine the majority barely have any idea what he looks like. How someone is presented on the tele impacts my opinion of them, not sure if that’s right or wrong but appearance is a lot for me. And there was at least one post on that thread talking about Pressleys looks.

[EI255]

Her qualities as a pundit can be raised without mentioning her appearance. Willie Miller has been getting a kicking for being a windbag, no one has mentioned his appearance.Just stating the truth!

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[EI255]

Noticed most female pundits like to talk shirt numbers when describing play. More of a rugby thing that.

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[EI255]

Shelley Kerr is an awful pundit.

Michael Stewart is the best pundit in Scotland by a good distant IMO.100% agree.

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[Since452]

I see some Jambos over on oneleagueback think she'll be their next manager after Neilson if Budge has her way. Surely even Hearts couldn't balls it up that much...

[Greenbeard]

Willie Miller is a radio pundit, I’d imagine the majority barely have any idea what he looks like. How someone is presented on the tele impacts my opinion of them, not sure if that’s right or wrong but appearance is a lot for me. And there was at least one post on that thread talking about Pressleys looks.
Irrespective of what you say, as a tv presenter, how you present yourself to your audience will most certainly impact on your viewing figures, and therefore getting the job in the first place, be that your voice, general demeanour, style and looks. That's why you don't see Wurzel Gummage presenting News At Ten. Kerr doesn't score too highly on these factors for me but in at least one respect she is still ahead of Derek Ferguson, although that's not saying much. How he gets his radio work when his voice sounds like he's well pished is beyond me.

[hibsbollah]

Irrespective of what you say, as a tv presenter, how you present yourself to your audience will most certainly impact on your viewing figures, and therefore getting the job in the first place, be that your voice, general demeanour, style and looks. That's why you don't see Wurzel Gummage presenting News At Ten. Kerr doesn't score too highly on these factors for me but in at least one respect she is still ahead of Derek Ferguson, although that's not saying much. How he gets his radio work when his voice sounds like he's well pished is beyond me.

Gummidge doesnt get to read the news because hes a fictional character. The actor that plays the character has been dead 25 years, so theres no way he could read the news either.

[Jones28]

[QUOTE=Jones28;6516540]

Last sentence is wrong. While he can do something about a gambling addiction, it’s extremely difficult to. Hence why it’s an addiction. Looks can be changed, through a variety of different means.


Both are difficult. The difference is that Rice doesn't get slagged off on messageboards for his situation, he gets roundly supported. Kerr on the other hand, well put it this way: there are too many people questioning why she shouldn't give her a going over because of the way she looks.

[Hibernian Verse]

Eilidh Barbour is another top notch sports presenter.

She is indeed. Doesn't hide her St Johnstone colours either which is good to see, as most of the pundits are Rangers, Celtic or Hearts.

[Jones28]

Just stating the truth!

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And its so brave of you, well done.

[Greenbeard]

Gummidge doesnt get to read the news because hes a fictional character. The actor that plays the character has been dead 25 years, so theres no way he could read the news either.
Ok ok. Darth Vader then.

[JimBHibees]

Why does a thread about female pundits always end up like this, can't it be discussed how good/bad they are without discussing her looks, I've only glimpsed at the Willie Miller thread but are there multiple posts about how he looks, I've known Shelley for a very long time as I'm friends with her sister and it's disgusting what some folk write about her, time for me to bow out

Tend to agree to be honest.

[hibsbollah]

Ok ok. Darth Vader then.

Now youre just being silly

[Jim44]

Ok ok. Darth Vader then.


Now youre just being silly

I don’t know ........ there’s already Sky Walker.:greengrin

[Bishop Hibee]

Davie Provan is awful. It’s been said before but the combination of Steven Thompson and Mikey Stewart works well. How Chic Young gets near a microphone is beyond me. Cliche ridden dinosaur. I was listening to Radio5 live in the car yesterday and I’d forgotten what a good pundit Pat Nevin is. Shame he doesn’t appear on TV anymore.

[lucky]

Sportscence was awful with Kelly and Caldwell. Both were boring to listen to and droned on. Hopefully neither will be back on our screens anytime soon.

[Greenbeard]

Who are we getting tonight? Anyone seen or heard confirmation?

[Bostonhibby]

Who are we getting tonight? Anyone seen or heard confirmation?Tonight's expert analysis will be done by Jacob Rees Mogg and Waynetta Slob.



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[hibbysam]

Who are we getting tonight? Anyone seen or heard confirmation?

Would imagine it’ll be Crichton and McFadden.

[Pete70]

Who are we getting tonight? Anyone seen or heard confirmation?

My guess is it’ll probably be 2 “pundits” and a co comms so likely an ex-Rangers player, an ex-Celtic player and either an ex-Motherwell or ex-Hearts player.

[Greenbeard]

My guess is it’ll probably be 2 “pundits” and a co comms so likely an ex-Rangers player, an ex-Celtic player and either an ex-Motherwell or ex-Hearts player.
For some time I've been hoping for a "mute commentary" option which just leaves you with the atmospheric background crowd noise. Could be heading for just a simple mute tonight if we get who you suggest and I'll generate my own background crowd noise. Might search spotify for the cry of a flock of seagulls.

[Slim Shady]

Has there ever been a more inarticulate pundit than Shelly Kerr??

Not only that her analysis is awful.

I completely agree with more gender balance in football, however England have Alex Scott, who is articulate, understands the game, likeable and relatable, compared to Skeletor in Scotland.....

The gender / race balance does my head in.

Shelly would be nowhere near the screen if she wasn’t female.
Alex Scott wouldn’t either, she ticks all the boxes for equality.

Biggest thing for me is the quality - its pants.
We’ve seen the introduction of Micah Richards on Sky, building a great relationship standing up to Roy Keane and they’re a great insight to the game and speak their mind rather than cliches.

Neville and Carragher show on MNF when they analyse games is an excellent watch.
Souness is also great to listen to.

We scrape the barrel with Kerr, Craigan, Fleeting, Naismith. I rarely watch the programmes with these clowns if I have to as it involves Hibernian then I turn them down at HT / FT.

[lord bunberry]

I thought Richard Foster was really good tonight, first time I’ve seen him on tv.

[GreenCastle]

I thought Richard Foster was really good tonight, first time I’ve seen him on tv.

Actually thought all 3 were good - ok bit rusty but like the light hearted chat rather than the raging Boyd and cliches from the usual muppets.

[worcesterhibby]

Her qualities as a pundit can be raised without mentioning her appearance. Willie Miller has been getting a kicking for being a windbag, no one has mentioned his appearance.

to be fair I said he looked like a dehydrated pink bowling ball without his tash on a previous thread..:greengrin

[worcesterhibby]

The gender / race balance does my head in.

Shelly would be nowhere near the screen if she wasn’t female.
Alex Scott wouldn’t either, she ticks all the boxes for equality.

Biggest thing for me is the quality - its pants.
We’ve seen the introduction of Micah Richards on Sky, building a great relationship standing up to Roy Keane and they’re a great insight to the game and speak their mind rather than cliches.

Neville and Carragher show on MNF when they analyse games is an excellent watch.
Souness is also great to listen to.

We scrape the barrel with Kerr, Craigan, Fleeting, Naismith. I rarely watch the programmes with these clowns if I have to as it involves Hibernian then I turn them down at HT / FT.

we need more Marvin Bartley !

[Shrekko]

For an ex-pro to be any use as an analyst they MUST be able to point out things we don’t notice/know. Very few of them do as most are still in cliche-mode having been players for so long.

I don’t care if pundits are men or women but they should have their privileged position on merit. I think a lot of the women ex-players are safety first and offer very little. It’s become fashionable to say Alex Scott is a superb pundit but I’ve never once heard her say anything insightful or eye opening. More often than not she rattles off cliches at high speed and often gets totally lost.

Shelley Kerr is beyond bad and it’s scary to think she was coach of our women’s national team.

[hibsbollah]

For an ex-pro to be any use as an analyst they MUST be able to point out things we don’t notice/know. Very few of them do as most are still in cliche-mode having been players for so long.

I don’t care if pundits are men or women but they should have their privileged position on merit. I think a lot of the women ex-players are safety first and offer very little. It’s become fashionable to say Alex Scott is a superb pundit but I’ve never once heard her say anything insightful or eye opening. More often than not she rattles off cliches at high speed and often gets totally lost.

Shelley Kerr is beyond bad and it’s scary to think she was coach of our women’s national team.

Did you watch the Argentina game? The worst piece of game management I’ve ever seen, bar none.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I thought Richard Foster was really good tonight, first time I’ve seen him on tv.

He was - ht chat about going to 4 at the back and how it’d change the dynamics etc. Telling us stuff we might not know rather than just repeating what we’ve watched. He’s been good on the Friday night radio preview show with Mikey Stewart as well, more of him please bbc.

Marvin closing the sell Boyle to a bigger club chat down was also good.

[ACLeith]

Foster and Marv clearly respected what each was saying. Good banter as well when Marv pointed out the Livi game as a highlight of the next round. How refreshing to actually have 2 articulate intelligent ex-players with a bit of enthusiasm.

[Shrekko]

Did you watch the Argentina game? The worst piece of game management I’ve ever seen, bar none.

Yeah ... and her drunken de-brief on the back of it.

If people were serious about equality she should have been criticised much more severely ... and certainly not ending up landing a tv gig to spout bland cliches.

[Greenbeard]

He was - ht chat about going to 4 at the back and how it’d change the dynamics etc. Telling us stuff we might not know rather than just repeating what we’ve watched. He’s been good on the Friday night radio preview show with Mikey Stewart as well, more of him please bbc.

Marvin closing the sell Boyle to a bigger club chat down was also good.
"Hibs are a big club". :thumbsup:

[Greenbeard]

Did I hear right that the commentator said "it's hard to believe it's nearly a decade since Hibs won the Cup"? It's not even five years yet!

[Iain G]

Did I hear right that the commentator said "it's hard to believe it's nearly a decade since Hibs won the Cup"? It's not even five years yet!

He said half a decade 😁

[Greenbeard]

He said half a decade 😁
Ah right. But who ever uses the term "half a decade"? Unless you want to make five years sound longer than five years, even though it is five years.

[Sir David Gray]

Foster and Marv clearly respected what each was saying. Good banter as well when Marv pointed out the Livi game as a highlight of the next round. How refreshing to actually have 2 articulate intelligent ex-players with a bit of enthusiasm.

They're both still playing.

[TelaStella]

We all know they arnt on their for their abilities as the best people for the job they are on their because they are female and this whole gender equality has taken over. I’m all for ‘people’ being in roles on merit, male, female, straight, gay makes no odds but don’t try shoehorn someone into it ironically because of their gender. Am I the only one who things it’s a big contradiction in hiring people because they are female? BBC ‘ to be seen as inclusive, equally, diverse let’s go hire some females to up the Quota so no one can accuse us of anything’’. People are too nervous of discussing the subject incase they are seen as sexist etc, I personally don’t care it’s what I believe is going on and it’s for the wrong reasons.

Only took her scotland side to a World Cup just 2 years ago. One of only 2 first team managers to do so in 20+ years btw. You’re probably right though, being a woman must be great eh.


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[SMAXXA]

Only took her scotland side to a World Cup just 2 years ago. One of only 2 first team managers to do so in 20+ years btw. You’re probably right though, being a woman must be great eh.


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I’ve read this a few times and still have no idea what your point is?

[TelaStella]

Alex Scott is adorable. Surely to goodness sake there must be a bonnie lass from the Scottish womens set up who could do some punditry? :confused:

Most folk usually watch football for the football, ken?


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[TelaStella]

I’ve read this a few times and still have no idea what your point is?

More confused by your own point where you think a former World Cup manager’s only ability to discuss football is the fact she’s a woman.


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[hibbysam]

More confused by your own point where you think a former World Cup manager’s only ability to discuss football is the fact she’s a woman.


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There’s a huge gulf between what she managed and what she’s commenting on though. Or can someone who’s played or managed at the homeless World Cup guarantee themselves a place on the BBC sportscene panel?

[SMAXXA]

More confused by your own point where you think a former World Cup manager’s only ability to discuss football is the fact she’s a woman.


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I think my point was articulated fine, are you saying because she took the women’s team or any team for that matter to a WC she qualifies to be a pundit? There are many ex pros who are clearly not suitable for a media position despite having successful careers. So in conclusion I really don’t get your point?

[SMAXXA]

There’s a huge gulf between what she managed and what she’s commenting on though. Or can someone who’s played or managed at the homeless World Cup guarantee themselves a place on the BBC sportscene panel?

Correct, it was bizarre rational imo

[TelaStella]

There’s a huge gulf between what she managed and what she’s commenting on though. Or can someone who’s played or managed at the homeless World Cup guarantee themselves a place on the BBC sportscene panel?

Guys like Darren Fletcher and Jake Humphrey seem to get away with it every week, who’d they manage? comparing the woman’s World Cup to the homeless World Cup is just a bit low for me to get sucked into.


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[SMAXXA]

Guys like Darren Fletcher and Jake Humphrey seem to get away with it every week, who’d they manage? comparing the woman’s World Cup to the homeless World Cup is just a bit low for me to get sucked into.

And for the record DF is hands down better than SK in the pundit stakes.

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Darren fletcher had a career that anyone S Kerr included could only dream of having. I’d say he is better placed than most to give his view on football however my original point stands a good player/manager doesn’t automatically translate to a good pundit

[TelaStella]

I think my point was articulated fine, are you saying because she took the women’s team or any team for that matter to a WC she qualifies to be a pundit? There are many ex pros who are clearly not suitable for a media position despite having successful careers. So in conclusion I really don’t get your point?

Shock but... Yes? Would imagine such a cv qualifies you quite well to seek a career in football punditry actually. So far she’s probably the leading female pundit in Scotland where there really isn’t many more to choose from. It’s early days for her and I’m sure she’ll have much more to learn and improve on but frankly we should all be for inclusion and seeing more woman and girls in such positions. I think she deserves some slack, that’s all.


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[TelaStella]

Darren fletcher had a career that anyone S Kerr included could only dream of having. I’d say he is better placed than most to give his view on football however my original point stands a good player/manager doesn’t automatically translate to a good pundit

I was referring to Darren Fletcher from BT Sport. Not Manchester United but perhaps should of made that clearer.


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[SMAXXA]

Shock but... Yes? Would imagine such a cv qualifies you quite well to seek a career in football punditry actually. So far she’s probably the leading female pundit in Scotland where there really isn’t many more to choose from. It’s early days for her and I’m sure she’ll have much more to learn and improve on but frankly we should all be for inclusion and seeing more woman and girls in such positions. I think she deserves some slack, that’s all.


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I’d say Eilidh Barbour and Leanne Crichton are both far better women pundits (granted EB is more a presenter) and I’d say would have them as leading before SK. It’s nothing to do with her gender it’s the fact she’s pretty poor imo

[Since452]

Richard Foster thinks being fast in Scotland doesn't make you fast in England.

[TelaStella]

I’d say Eilidh Barbour and Leanne Crichton are both far better women pundits (granted EB is more a presenter) and I’d say would have them as leading before SK. It’s nothing to do with her gender it’s the fact she’s pretty poor imo

Eilidh Barbour and Leanne Crichton are both very good pundits too. At least we can agree on that mate [emoji1303].


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[easty]

Guys like Darren Fletcher and Jake Humphrey seem to get away with it every week, who’d they manage? comparing the woman’s World Cup to the homeless World Cup is just a bit low for me to get sucked into.


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I’d back the homeless World Cup team to beat the women’s team.

It’s not that relevant, but that seems to be a running theme.

[Swedish hibee]

That women Jane on sportsound is terrible. She needs to go..

[TheGog]

Joel Murray is another.


She is the female version of our Yogi. Perfectly likeable character, lovely woman, but when her mouth opens she really struggles to pronounce words and gets her tounge tied often. There has been times I've blushed watching her she seems awkward.

Very budget

[Peevemor]

Joel Murray is another.


She is the female version of our Yogi. Perfectly likeable character, lovely woman, but when her mouth opens she really struggles to pronounce words and gets her tounge tied often. There has been times I've blushed watching her she seems awkward.

Very budgetSorry, but I don't agree at all. She's been fine any time I've watched her.

[Since90+2]

Joel Murray is another.


She is the female version of our Yogi. Perfectly likeable character, lovely woman, but when her mouth opens she really struggles to pronounce words and gets her tounge tied often. There has been times I've blushed watching her she seems awkward.

Very budget

Agreed. She actually looks uncomfortable in front of the camera the times I've seen her which tends to have the same effect for the viewer.

[WestCoastHibby]

Marvin Bartley and Richard Foster were good bouncing off each other with intelligence and a bit of humour more of the same suits me .

[Danderhall Hibs]

Folk now confusing pundits with commentators and trackside interviewers confuses the debate. Fletcher, Barbour, Logan etc are there to present or commentate or interview pre/post match.

The pundits are the ones that are there to add some knowledge and insight - Kerr and the others should be compared against folk like Bartley, Foster, Stewart, Crichton etc.

[hibbysam]

Guys like Darren Fletcher and Jake Humphrey seem to get away with it every week, who’d they manage? comparing the woman’s World Cup to the homeless World Cup is just a bit low for me to get sucked into.


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You were the one that brought up that she had managed at a World Cup. Comparing a women’s World Cup to the male game is just as low, hence my facetious point. Who cares that she’s been to a World Cup, it hardly makes any points invalid.

[One Day]

Marvin Bartley and Richard Foster were good bouncing off each other with intelligence and a bit of humour more of the same suits me .

I thought so to. Makes a change from the usual pundits.

[Iain G]

Marvin Bartley and Richard Foster were good bouncing off each other with intelligence and a bit of humour more of the same suits me .

There was some camaraderie with the pair of them and with Steven Thompson, it worked well and felt natural and they added to the match experience by adding well articulated views and got their points across.

Maybe just ban anyone born within 20 miles of Glasgow from summarising on games? 😁

[Roxyhibee]

I’m no more of a fan of Shelley Kerr and Alex Scott than I am the likes of Alan Preston or Willie Miller. They’re all pretty awful.

But I have to say I really like Joelle Murray - yes she’s a bit nervous sometimes but she’s not trying to affect a personality - she’s honest and good at pointing out parts of the game that are going wrong or well for us.

[happiehibbie]

@Admin I have read all the comments on this thread. I got a weeks ban for less :) when talking about Jollie Murray " I Remember her name now "

People should get a job if they're good at it not what sex creed or colour they are ! simple.

the world has gone PC mad.

I believe there is a sportscene for Womens football on BBC scotland. I don't know the make up of the show but lets see how its set up. I wonder what the viewing figures will be ?

[superfurryhibby]

Marvin Bartley and Richard Foster were good bouncing off each other with intelligence and a bit of humour more of the same suits me .

I agree both were decent, with Marvin being particularly good at making a fair point.

[Brightside]

@Admin I have read all the comments on this thread. I got a weeks ban for less :) when talking about Jollie Murray " I Remember her name now "

People should get a job if they're good at it not what sex creed or colour they are ! simple.

the world has gone PC mad.

I believe there is a sportscene for Womens football on BBC scotland. I don't know the make up of the show but lets see how its set up. I wonder what the viewing figures will be ?

Not sure what the the point is of your last comment. It was a good show with a mix of male and females. As should everything be in life. :wink:

The show itself is a huge step forward for the Womens game in Scotland. Clearly done on a tight budget but those involved in the the Scottish Womens game will really appreciate it.

[matty_f]

Not sure what the the point is of your last comment. It was a good show with a mix of male and females. As should everything be in life. :wink:

The show itself is a huge step forward for the Womens game in Scotland. Clearly done on a tight budget but those involved in the the Scottish Womens game will really appreciate it.


The idea that women should only be on women's football shows is as prehistoric as it is ridiculous.

And the idea that a woman can't understand football enough to comment on the men's game is ludicrous as well. I'd go so far as to say making that point is trolling rather than a genuinely held belief.

Pretty depressing thread, all in.

[TelaStella]

The idea that women should only be on women's football shows is as prehistoric as it is ridiculous.

And the idea that a woman can't understand football enough to comment on the men's game is ludicrous as well. I'd go so far as to say making that point is trolling rather than a genuinely held belief.

Pretty depressing thread, all in.

Well said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibbysam]

The idea that women should only be on women's football shows is as prehistoric as it is ridiculous.

And the idea that a woman can't understand football enough to comment on the men's game is ludicrous as well. I'd go so far as to say making that point is trolling rather than a genuinely held belief.

Pretty depressing thread, all in.

That’s not what most are saying. However, like with many pundits in this country, majority of them are useless when it comes to insight and knowledge. Playing the woman’s game doesn’t automatically mean they understand the men’s game. The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version.

You should be allowed to criticise their selection without being branded a troll or sexist. Just like I can criticise Rae, Craigan, Stewart etc.

[TelaStella]

That’s not what most are saying. However, like with many pundits in this country, majority of them are useless when it comes to insight and knowledge. Playing the woman’s game doesn’t automatically mean they understand the men’s game. The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version.

You should be allowed to criticise their selection without being branded a troll or sexist. Just like I can criticise Rae, Craigan, Stewart etc.

You may well argue that the woman’s game is of a different standard to that of the men’s. But to argue they therefore have some sort of inferior intellect or understanding of the game overall is as the previous poster put, prehistoric. Outright ridiculous even.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

That’s not what most are saying. However, like with many pundits in this country, majority of them are useless when it comes to insight and knowledge. Playing the woman’s game doesn’t automatically mean they understand the men’s game. The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version.

You should be allowed to criticise their selection without being branded a troll or sexist. Just like I can criticise Rae, Craigan, Stewart etc.

Of course you can criticise, and i never said most people have said that on this thread. I’ve criticised Shelley Kerr on this thread.


I refuse to accept that women can’t understand the men’s game, irrespective of the level they’ve played at. That point is absurd and insulting.

[Brightside]

That’s not what most are saying. However, like with many pundits in this country, majority of them are useless when it comes to insight and knowledge. Playing the woman’s game doesn’t automatically mean they understand the men’s game. The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version.

You should be allowed to criticise their selection without being branded a troll or sexist. Just like I can criticise Rae, Craigan, Stewart etc.

Its still the same game. Some people are claiming its just tokenism to have women on these shows. Ive no issue with someone thinking a pundit isnt any good, but its has nothing to do with the sex of that pundit and if you think otherwise then that is clearly sexism. Same with people thinking a woman can't ref the mens game. Twitter was as depressing as expected when they announced the female ref down south this week.

[hibbysam]

Of course you can criticise, and i never said most people have said that on this thread. I’ve criticised Shelley Kerr on this thread.


I refuse to accept that women can’t understand the men’s game, irrespective of the level they’ve played at. That point is absurd and insulting.

Of course they can, just as a non footballing person can. However to say they are qualified because they’ve been to a World Cup is just wrong, and just as insulting. Otherwise anyone that’s played amateur level football would be qualified to comment on top level men’s games.

[HFCdeb]

She gives females in football a bad name. I find it really difficult to defend female punditry in Scotland because they're as poor as the male ones, it'sjust that they get it tighter because they're newer to it. Michael Stewart and to a far lesser extent Stephen Thomson are the only ones I can tolerate listening to.
Shelley Kerr is insufferable. The voice alone makes me hit the mute button.

[hibbysam]

Its still the same game. Some people are claiming its just tokenism to have women on these shows. Ive no issue with someone thinking a pundit isnt any good, but its has nothing to do with the sex of that pundit and if you think otherwise then that is clearly sexism. Same with people thinking a woman can't ref the mens game. Twitter was as depressing as expected when they announced the female ref down south this week.

The same game but completely different levels. I think people should be allowed to question, if someone is a piss poor pundit, as to why they are there. That’s not sexist at all. If your not the best person for the job but end up in that job, why are you there? It’s no different to men getting jobs just because they were men in other walks of life.

[matty_f]

Of course they can, just as a non footballing person can. However to say they are qualified because they’ve been to a World Cup is just wrong, and just as insulting. Otherwise anyone that’s played amateur level football would be qualified to comment on top level men’s games.

That comparison is totally flawed, to the point where i don’t even know where to start with it.

I’m going to step out of this conversation here, I’ve said plenty on this subject previously on other threads and i have no intention of going over old ground.

[hibbysam]

You may well argue that the woman’s game is of a different standard to that of the men’s. But to argue they therefore have some sort of inferior intellect or understanding of the game overall is as the previous poster put, prehistoric. Outright ridiculous even.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The argument was actually that because someone has been to a world
Cup that she’s qualified to the relevant standard to be a good pundit. Which is complete nonsense.

[hibbysam]

That comparison is totally flawed, to the point where i don’t even know where to start with it.

I’m going to step out of this conversation here, I’ve said plenty on this subject previously on other threads and i have no intention of going over old ground.

Why is it flawed? Both levels are so far from the men’s professional game, it’s all the same sport as you said. Why would a male amateur player have any less of an understanding than a female player? With the exception of the top professional players, the women’s game is extremely poor, although improving.

Kerr went from the Mens lowland league to the national women’s team manager, take the lowland league side of it, would you expect the manager of Stiring uni now to end up on tele commenting on top level football just because he/she has managed Stirling uni? No, they would need to be a good pundit for that to happen, if they were poor they’d be nowhere near it.

[Brightside]

Of course they can, just as a non footballing person can. However to say they are qualified because they’ve been to a World Cup is just wrong, and just as insulting. Otherwise anyone that’s played amateur level football would be qualified to comment on top level men’s games.

Thats just rubbish. Its the same game. The majority of the pundits are all similarly quailed as far as coaching etc goes also. You're digging a hole here that makes no sense whatsoever.

[hibbysam]

Thats just rubbish. Its the same game. The majority of the pundits are all similarly quailed as far as coaching etc goes also. You're digging a hole here that makes no sense whatsoever.

See previous post, why’s it rubbish? Coaching qualifications mean absolutely nothing. I could work my way up the licences now, but with no tv experience would be a seriously poor pundit. Shelley Kerr is woeful, just because she’s been to a World Cup doesn’t make her qualified to be on the tele, that was the original argument.

[Brightside]

See previous post, why’s it rubbish? Coaching qualifications mean absolutely nothing. I could work my way up the licences now, but with no tv experience would be a seriously poor pundit. Shelley Kerr is woeful, just because she’s been to a World Cup doesn’t make her qualified to be on the tele, that was the original argument.

The original argument that someone is poor is fine...no issue with that. But you then went down the lane of playing in the womens games doesnt give you the knowledge to comment on the mens game. Thats nonsense. The majority of male ex players that appear on these shows are rubbish. Its nothing to do with the sex of the person. Nothing at all.

[TelaStella]

See previous post, why’s it rubbish? Coaching qualifications mean absolutely nothing. I could work my way up the licences now, but with no tv experience would be a seriously poor pundit. Shelley Kerr is woeful, just because she’s been to a World Cup doesn’t make her qualified to be on the tele, that was the original argument.

She’s been doing punditry no longer than what, a year? Who knows where she’ll be in a few years time if you perhaps gave her the opportunity to settle and develop further. Really don’t understand your view around the World Cup but after all this Im far from surprised.


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[hibbysam]

The original argument that someone is poor is fine...no issue with that. But you then went down the lane of playing in the womens games doesnt give you the knowledge to comment on the mens game. Thats nonsense. The majority of male ex players that appear on these shows are rubbish. Its nothing to do with the sex of the person. Nothing at all.

No, the person said that because she’d been to a World Cup two years ago she was qualified. That’s not true. I agree the majority of male pundits are poor. Managing a woman’s side doesn’t automatically give you the knowledge and experience to comment on the Scottish Premiership though, just like playing and managing at a lower level of Scottish men’s football doesn’t.

[superfurryhibby]

Wooden delivery, zero added insight, thick as a pound of mince. Eh, ideally qualified for the, eh, job of punditry on the BBC.

[Bostonhibby]

The original argument that someone is poor is fine...no issue with that. But you then went down the lane of playing in the womens games doesnt give you the knowledge to comment on the mens game. Thats nonsense. The majority of male ex players that appear on these shows are rubbish. Its nothing to do with the sex of the person. Nothing at all.Agree with this entirely, but theres no getting away from how inept and inarticulate Kerr is, She's not alone at the BBC where there surely has to be plenty more able options available, irrespective of gender.

Dont really care who it is so long as a knowledgeable, professional approach is taken to the role by someone who can communicate reasonably and contain their own biases/prejudices.

As an aside, one of the most knowledgeable fans I know is my Hibs supporting Sister in law and the highest level she's ever been involved at is watching her kids at Spartans.

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[hibbysam]

She’s been doing punditry no longer than what, a year? Who knows where she’ll be in a few years time if you perhaps gave her the opportunity to settle and develop further. Really don’t understand your view around the World Cup but after all this Im far from surprised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s your view on the World Cup, your argument was that she’s been to a World Cup therefore that’s all that’s needed to be in the job she is. She’s piss poor, and shouldn’t be on the tele, likewise a number of others. If your not good enough for a job right now you shouldn’t be in the job right now.

[Brightside]

No, the person said that because she’d been to a World Cup two years ago she was qualified. That’s not true. I agree the majority of male pundits are poor. Managing a woman’s side doesn’t automatically give you the knowledge and experience to comment on the Scottish Premiership though, just like playing and managing at a lower level of Scottish men’s football doesn’t.

"The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version." Thats what you said. That has zero to do with the ability to discuss a game - no matter the sex. A decent male pundit will be great talking about a womens game and vice versa.

[hibbysam]

"The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version." Thats what you said. That has zero to do with the ability to discuss a game - no matter the sex. A decent male pundit will be great talking about a womens game and vice versa.

In response to the World Cup comment, and the argument that playing at amateur level is a ridiculous comparison. Where someone has played the game has no bearing, and shouldn’t automatically qualify someone for a job.

[hibsbollah]

Where someone has played the game has no bearing, and shouldn’t automatically qualify someone for a job.

You are contradicting yourself. Absolutely destroying your own argument.

When you look at the big picture, Scottish football has suffered from crap commentators and crap analysis since TV was invented. And that’s historically been a male commentator problem. If there is the odd new intelligent and interesting voice coming through, whether that’s Richard Foster or Big Marv, or the Hibs girl or Karen Carney, who I like, really doesn’t matter.

[hibbysam]

You are contradicting yourself. Absolutely destroying your own argument.

When you look at the big picture, Scottish football has suffered from crap commentators and crap analysis since TV was invented. And that’s historically been a male commentator problem. If there is the odd new intelligent and interesting voice coming through, whether that’s Richard Foster or Big Marv, or the Hibs girl or Karen Carney, who I like, really doesn’t matter.

What’s contradictory? The argument from someone was she’s qualified due to being at a World Cup. That’s nonsense. Again, I’ve said that there’s many pundits that are woeful, whether that be male or female, and what they’ve done previously shouldn’t matter when it comes to punditry.

[Tommy75]

Wooden delivery, zero added insight, thick as a pound of mince. Eh, ideally qualified for the, eh, job of punditry on the BBC.

BBC coverage of the Scottish game is pretty awful. After the game last night a good portion of the chat was around whether Boyle could/should be playing at a higher level. I get it is a reasonable discussion but what must the tournament sponsors etc think when they see pundits wishing away our best players. Fair play to Bartley for pointing out Hibs are a big club.

Time for a total clear out and fresh faces brought in to talk our game up and provide modern, insightful perspectives. Doubt that will ever happen though.

[hibsbollah]

BBC coverage of the Scottish game is pretty awful. After the game last night a good portion of the chat was around whether Boyle could/should be playing at a higher level. I get it is a reasonable discussion but what must the tournament sponsors etc think when they see pundits wishing away our best players. Fair play to Bartley for pointing out Hibs are a big club.

Time for a total clear out and fresh faces brought in to talk our game up and provide modern, insightful perspectives. Doubt that will ever happen though.

There’s no reason why not. There are loads of intelligent voices on sports broadcasting. They just don’t seem to get jobs especially on the bbc.

[Andy74]

"The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version." Thats what you said. That has zero to do with the ability to discuss a game - no matter the sex. A decent male pundit will be great talking about a womens game and vice versa.

It has a lot to do with it.

We aren’t talking about whether randoms can have good football knowledge. I’m sure they can have.

What we are talking about is the specific pundit role played by ex professionals who are there to add something of their own professional experiences and knowledge. I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

[hibsbollah]

I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

That is just a ridiculous, ignorant comparison.

[Onion]

BBC coverage of the Scottish game is pretty awful. After the game last night a good portion of the chat was around whether Boyle could/should be playing at a higher level. I get it is a reasonable discussion but what must the tournament sponsors etc think when they see pundits wishing away our best players. Fair play to Bartley for pointing out Hibs are a big club.

Time for a total clear out and fresh faces brought in to talk our game up and provide modern, insightful perspectives. Doubt that will ever happen though.

BBC Scotland needs to have a Radio One-like purge of the old hands who do the square root of zero to enhance our game and perpetuate the tired perception that the world revolves around Celtic and The Rangers. That doesn't mean filling key roles with females who are as bad or even worse than current male equivalents, just to get their diversification numbers up.

Bartley is first and foremost an intelligent, interesting speaker who doesn't appear to carry any chips on his shoulders and can manage to hide his affinity towards certain clubs. The fact he's black only becomes important when BBC start to look at their diversity profile. It should be in that order.

[TelaStella]

What’s contradictory? The argument from someone was she’s qualified due to being at a World Cup. That’s nonsense. Again, I’ve said that there’s many pundits that are woeful, whether that be male or female, and what they’ve done previously shouldn’t matter when it comes to punditry.

It wasn’t the only argument I was making you just seem a bit too carried away by it. Odd because I can’t imagine why taking a team to a World Cup wouldn’t benefit you to be capable enough to chat about football but I’m not saying anymore on the point. There may be many pundits that are awful as you keep saying but the scrutiny you’re venting towards her for being a woman and therefore apparently incapable of understanding football like you or I am is honking. Nothing else to add on the matter.


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[Hibs90]

Nah, Joelle is fine. Knowledgeable about the game and gets her point across really well. I'd like to see her get a shot on Sportscene or something. As does Leanne Crichton, knowledgeable and makes good points. Shelly Kerr just spouts dramatic nonsense.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It has a lot to do with it.

We aren’t talking about whether randoms can have good football knowledge. I’m sure they can have.

What we are talking about is the specific pundit role played by ex professionals who are there to add something of their own professional experiences and knowledge. I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

It’s not really. The level of snobbery in football is quite telling - I heard Ian McCall tell Daryl Broadfoot last night that he couldn’t comment on performance management cos he’d never been involved in the game.

I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a real job is more capable to speak about performance management than a footballer.

[superfurryhibby]

It’s not really. The level of snobbery in football is quite telling - I heard Ian McCall tell Daryl Broadfoot last night that he couldn’t comment on performance management cos he’d never been involved in the game.

I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a real job is more capable to speak about performance management than a footballer.

To add context. McCall was making a broader point about referees and their poor decision making and the issue of the SFA not addressing routine incompetence. Both McCall and Levein were debating this with Broadfoot, who was being his usual conceited ******** self. McCall was allowing himself to get a bit riled by Broadfoot, but most of his points were pretty valid. As part of the conversation there was discussion around how players pay the price for poor performance, both McCall and Levein were saying that ultimately you get dropped from the team. Broadfoot was havering pish about managing player performance and clearly McCall and Levein have a bit more experience of that.

[Brightside]

It has a lot to do with it.

We aren’t talking about whether randoms can have good football knowledge. I’m sure they can have.

What we are talking about is the specific pundit role played by ex professionals who are there to add something of their own professional experiences and knowledge. I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

They are asking high profile football personalities to provide punditry. The level doesn't really matter does it? The rules, formations, building blocks of the game are the same. I have no issues with a Juv ex player being on there is they can add something. Gary Caldwell is utter mince as a pundit. Shelly Kerr is mince as a pundit. Its got nothing to do with their sex or the level of football they played. Wait till the public find out that the women pundits get paid less. :greengrin

[Andy74]

That is just a ridiculous, ignorant comparison.

It’s not. It is a comparable level in this country in particular.

No issues if they are there something like the journalists that just give a general view but they aren’t really. They are there to give the expert view from inside the game. They don’t have that.

Men’s football and women’s football are very different. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

[Kato]

BBC Scotland needs to have a Radio One-like purge of the old hands who do the square root of zero to enhance our game and perpetuate the tired perception that the world revolves around Celtic and The Rangers.


Agreed. Get shot of Richard "Smashy" Gordon and Alan "Nicey" Preston for a start.

[Brightside]

It’s not. It is a comparable level in this country in particular.

No issues if they are there something like the journalists that just give a general view but they aren’t really. They are there to give the expert view from inside the game. They don’t have that.

Men’s football and women’s football are very different. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that.


Andy - they are the exact same game. They may be played at different fitness & performance levels but its the exact same game. Or do you think that a man can't commentate on a womens games now?

Can a female tennis player or darts player not talk about the mens version of their sports? It make no sense to think otherwise.

[hibbysam]

It wasn’t the only argument I was making you just seem a bit too carried away by it. Odd because I can’t imagine why taking a team to a World Cup wouldn’t benefit you to be capable enough to chat about football but I’m not saying anymore on the point. There may be many pundits that are awful as you keep saying but the scrutiny you’re venting towards her for being a woman and therefore apparently incapable of understanding football like you or I am is honking. Nothing else to add on the matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing to do with her being a woman, and has never been said by me. The World Cup thing is lazy. Did you see her performance at the World Cup? Or at the subsequent qualifying for the euros? She wasn’t a great coach and the level in the men’s game comparable was the lowland league. Again, all that is irrelevant though, as a pundit shes crap.

[James Stephen]

Andy - they are the exact same game. They may be played at different fitness & performance levels but its the exact same game. Or do you think that a man can't commentate on a womens games now?

Can a female tennis player or darts player not talk about the mens version of their sports? It make no sense to think otherwise.

I think his point is that either pundits are there because they have played at top level and have that insight, or they aren't.

Shelley Kerr hasnt, and so is being picked on a set of criteria that would open up BBC punditry to anyone from junior fitba up. That's clearly not the case either.

So the question is, on what criteria are the BBC picking their pundits?

[hibsbollah]

It always, always comes down to negative relative comparisons about women’s football on here. Even when that isn’t the relevant issue (Kerr being a crap pundit). It’s almost like there are some inadequacy issues going on.

[happiehibbie]

Not sure what the the point is of your last comment. It was a good show with a mix of male and females. As should everything be in life. :wink:

The show itself is a huge step forward for the Womens game in Scotland. Clearly done on a tight budget but those involved in the the Scottish Womens game will really appreciate it.

You have answered perfectly. I did not have a clue how it was going to be set up hence I asked.

Glad you enjoyed it

[J-C]

I'm not going to get into the sexist argument here, Kelly along with many other so called expert pundits we have on BBC tv and radio are pretty brutal and only seem to be there because of who they played for or supported. There's a female commentator on MOTD who's voice really grates on me, can't remember her name, nothing to do with her being a woman it's just her voice.

[Danderhall Hibs]

To add context. McCall was making a broader point about referees and their poor decision making and the issue of the SFA not addressing routine incompetence. Both McCall and Levein were debating this with Broadfoot, who was being his usual conceited ******** self. McCall was allowing himself to get a bit riled by Broadfoot, but most of his points were pretty valid. As part of the conversation there was discussion around how players pay the price for poor performance, both McCall and Levein were saying that ultimately you get dropped from the team. Broadfoot was havering pish about managing player performance and clearly McCall and Levein have a bit more experience of that.

He was and Broadfoot didn’t want to get into it. He did suggest that football manager knows more about performance management than others though when in reality it’s the opposite.

[patlowe]

Representation really matters IMO and I applaud the BBC, Sky etc for makingquite obvious efforts to increase the diversity of panels/presenters etc and moving away from the old boys club of old. Really not sure why it makes people feel so uncomfortable to have a diverse panel every week on Sportscene - is it really such a hardship when the potential upside is that people from historically unrepresented or disadvantaged groups see themselves reflected and might think football or a career in TV or public life might be for them?

And if this is really about 'insight' on the game then all the former pros who spout on about how "it's a different sport these days" because you can't tackle/bully/assault anymore (not to mention the vast differences in body shape/speed etc :wink:) should be immediately replaced by current players as they are clearly not qualified to speak with any authority on football.

Edit: I am not saying you can't be critical of female pundits, just commenting on the problems some people seem to have with representation and diversity on our TV screens.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is it ok to say i dont like the glasgow accent or the tone that's in either?

:rolleyes:

There should be a list on the front page on what's acceptable and whats not. :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

Representation really matters IMO and I applaud the BBC, Sky etc for makingquite obvious efforts to increase the diversity of panels/presenters etc and moving away from the old boys club of old. Really not sure why it makes people feel so uncomfortable to have a diverse panel every week on Sportscene - is it really such a hardship when the potential upside is that people from historically unrepresented or disadvantaged groups see themselves reflected and might think football or a career in TV or public life might be for them?

And if this is really about 'insight' on the game then all the former pros who spout on about how "it's a different sport these days" because you can't tackle/bully/assault anymore (not to mention the vast differences in body shape/speed etc :wink:) should be immediately replaced by current players as they are clearly not qualified to speak with any authority on football.

Edit: I am not saying you can't be critical of female pundits, just commenting on the problems some people seem to have with representation and diversity on our TV screens.

Great post.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is it ok to say i dont like the glasgow accent or the tone that's in either?

:rolleyes:

There should be a list on the front page on what's acceptable and whats not. :rolleyes:

I don’t know what you said BH but there is a set of rules that you have to tick to say you’ve read and understood (well there used to be).

And I hope annoying Glasgow accents can be called out.

[hibee-boys]

Should be the best man/woman for the job, and I mean any job, not just football punditry. However, looking at sports presenting/commentating and analysis it is clear that this is no longer the case, is choosing a female over a man to satisfy the PC brigade not just sexism the other way round? Lot’s of very articulate and well informed female presenters, leave the analysis to individuals who have been there and done it.

[HNA4]

Is it ok to say i dont like the glasgow accent or the tone that's in either?

:rolleyes:

There should be a list on the front page on what's acceptable and whats not. :rolleyes:

The forum rules (https://www.hibs.net/misc.php?do=vsarules) and a pinned reminder of our zero tolerance policy toward sexism (https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?343243-Our-Approach-to-Online-Behaviour).

For the avoidance of doubt, a post which states you don't like female commentators based purely on the fact you don't like what women sound like is sexist.

[Brightside]

Should be the best man/woman for the job, and I mean any job, not just football punditry. However, looking at sports presenting/commentating and analysis it is clear that this is no longer the case, is choosing a female over a man to satisfy the PC brigade not just sexism the other way round? Lot’s of very articulate and well informed female presenters, leave the analysis to individuals who have been there and done it.

Jobs for the boys eh. :wink:

[hibee-boys]

Jobs for the boys eh. :wink:

It’s only jobs for the boys....if it’s just boys. I can name a few female presenters I’d rather have presenting sportscene than Stephen Thompson. As I clearly said, best person for the job, no matter the sex.

[superfurryhibby]

Should be the best man/woman for the job, and I mean any job, not just football punditry. However, looking at sports presenting/commentating and analysis it is clear that this is no longer the case, is choosing a female over a man to satisfy the PC brigade not just sexism the other way round? Lot’s of very articulate and well informed female presenters, leave the analysis to individuals who have been there and done it.

The PC brigade,lol.

It’s also about inclusivity. Plenty women like football, plenty women play football, attend football, encourage their bairns to play football and so on?

Being their and having done it hasn’t made Derek Ferguson, Windy Miller, Soggy Biscuits, et al very good at analysing the game either?

Why can’t we just settle for having anyone of any gender , sexual orientation or non-binary whatsit, who can actually string a sentence together without slaughtering the basic rules of grammar and who can actually offer some insight into the events unfolding before our eyes?

[blackpoolhibs]

The forum rules (https://www.hibs.net/misc.php?do=vsarules) and a pinned reminder of our zero tolerance policy toward sexism (https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?343243-Our-Approach-to-Online-Behaviour).

For the avoidance of doubt, a post which states you don't like female commentators based purely on the fact you don't like what women sound like is sexist.

What about the glasgow accent, or the brummie accent, the tone of those accents are horrible, i suppose i'm now a weedgieist and a brummiest too.

[Jay]

What about the glasgow accent, or the brummie accent, the tone of those accents are horrible, i suppose i'm now a weedgieist and a brummiest too.


Your not covering yourself in glory here BH.

As a woman this thread has really saddened me. It sickens me to the pit of my stomach that in 2021 men switch off when they hear a womans voice because they see it as a mans job. I thought the world had moved on.

[Andy74]

Your not covering yourself in glory here BH.

As a woman this thread has really saddened me. It sickens me to the pit of my stomach that in 2021 men switch off when they hear a womans voice because they see it as a mans job. I thought the world had moved on.

I for one don’t switch off. I’m just talking about preference of what experts I’d prefer to hear from.

It’s not an issue of what sex they are for me, it is the fact that they haven’t played at a level where I would take much from their experience. Pretty much a fact I’m afraid that women don’t play in the men’s game so that puts them in the same bracket as the vast majority of men who I also wouldn’t really want to hear from as only a small percentage have played professionally.

I’ve no issue at all with the various female presenters or journalists being involved. They aren’t there to give that sort of input.

A lot of the male ex players are rubbish too because they might lack other TV skills or a personality. So ideally I prefer the pundits to be ex players who have experienced the type of big games they are commenting on and also have the communication skills to be enjoyable to listen to.

[rossevenil]

Sometimes I feel the women commentators try to hard and can waffel on a bit without just giving a brief recap (mind some of the males aint much better esp on BBC Scotland) however I enjoy Bianca Westwood and Michelle Owen on Sky when they are covering games,Westwood in particular cos she sounds like a fan and doesn`t really go down the route of just using the usual cliches.

Last night for the Hibs game was the best its been for a while with Marv and Forster with Thomson hosting up until the crap about Boyler and "bigger" clubs which as someone has already mentioned Marv put to be by saying Hibs were also a big club,but other than that there was some good banter between them and some honest comments being made....no doubt they`ll be sent away for further BBC Scotland "Hearts/Old Firm" bias training!

[patlowe]

Should be the best man/woman for the job, and I mean any job, not just football punditry. However, looking at sports presenting/commentating and analysis it is clear that this is no longer the case, is choosing a female over a man to satisfy the PC brigade not just sexism the other way round? Lot’s of very articulate and well informed female presenters, leave the analysis to individuals who have been there and done it.

So best man/woman for the job but unless you're a man don't bother? Could be pretty tough for a woman to prove they are the best person under that criteria.

Ah, the good old "PC Brigade" - sign me up :greengrin

[WeeRussell]

Michael Stewart is, IMO, mostly a fine analyst after the fact. However I'm glad to read some criticism on here as I think he's a poor co commentator, always trying to make smart a*se comments to his fellow commentator. He's also much less insightful when having to do it live though he's still way ahead of most when it comes to understanding what's happening.

Absolutely 100% agree, and it's something I commented on to a few mates last week. Spent the whole game I was watching wanting to jump on anything the commentator said, or make a smart retort (even when didn't make sense/made him look daft).. and it just made him sound like he was down at the same level as the majority of the personalities we are treated to.

And I've always liked him as a pundit too. I don't know it its a lack of ability to do live commentary or he was just in the mood for being a knob :confused:

[WeeRussell]

What's being adorable or bonnie got to do with the ability to critique games of football?

Or have I been whooshed?

Presumably similar to your avatar picture - not completely necessary, but a welcome easy-on-the-eye addition :greengrin

[Tommy75]

Representation really matters IMO and I applaud the BBC, Sky etc for makingquite obvious efforts to increase the diversity of panels/presenters etc and moving away from the old boys club of old. Really not sure why it makes people feel so uncomfortable to have a diverse panel every week on Sportscene - is it really such a hardship when the potential upside is that people from historically unrepresented or disadvantaged groups see themselves reflected and might think football or a career in TV or public life might be for them?

And if this is really about 'insight' on the game then all the former pros who spout on about how "it's a different sport these days" because you can't tackle/bully/assault anymore (not to mention the vast differences in body shape/speed etc :wink:) should be immediately replaced by current players as they are clearly not qualified to speak with any authority on football.

Edit: I am not saying you can't be critical of female pundits, just commenting on the problems some people seem to have with representation and diversity on our TV screens.


Representation is important I agree but there is no point just shoehorning in people based on the colour of their skin, gender etc.

I don't think I have read on this thread that people are uncomfortable with having a diverse panel. The quality of the panel seems to be the issue.

I prefer Alex Scott on Match of the Day to Alan Hansen. I'd also prefer Pat Nevin to Shelley Kerr on Sportscene. I judge a pundit on what they say and couldn't care less if they are male of female. It's frustrating how everything has to be so prescriptive these days.

[Onion]

Sometimes I feel the women commentators try to hard and can waffel on a bit without just giving a brief recap (mind some of the males aint much better esp on BBC Scotland) however I enjoy Bianca Westwood and Michelle Owen on Sky when they are covering games,Westwood in particular cos she sounds like a fan and doesn`t really go down the route of just using the usual cliches.

Last night for the Hibs game was the best its been for a while with Marv and Forster with Thomson hosting up until the crap about Boyler and "bigger" clubs which as someone has already mentioned Marv put to be by saying Hibs were also a big club,but other than that there was some good banter between them and some honest comments being made....no doubt they`ll be sent away for further BBC Scotland "Hearts/Old Firm" bias training!

Exactly. The only strange thing about this thread is the expectation of those who think that a game that was invented for working men, has for decades been played by men, run by men and officiated by men will easily and uniformly adapt to change that has arguably not progressed the game other than expand it's popularity among another group of people.

At its heart, football is tribalism. By its nature it's divisive. We don't like Hearts and they're not overly fond of us. Yes, we should all be able to compete and hug at the end of a game but some may take a little longer to get there than others. Give it time :greengrin

[Eyrie]

Presumably those opposed to female pundits on the basis that they never played at the level they are discussing were also opposed to Wenger and Mourinho being managers because they never played at the level they managed?

Being a pundit requires a different skill set to being a player. It requires the ability to communicate fluently and provide insight into what is happening. Kerr fails on both counts whilst Crichton does fine, particularly since she's just starting her career.

I'd like to see our captain Murray get some media training because what she says is worth hearing, but she looks very uncomfortable on camera. Maybe training would help Kerr, or maybe she just isn't up to it like several of her male colleagues.

[Crunchie]

Presumably those opposed to female pundits on the basis that they never played at the level they are discussing were also opposed to Wenger and Mourinho being managers because they never played at the level they managed?

Being a pundit requires a different skill set to being a player. It requires the ability to communicate fluently and provide insight into what is happening. Kerr fails on both counts whilst Crichton does fine, particularly since she's just starting her career.

I'd like to see our captain Murray get some media training because what she says is worth hearing, but she looks very uncomfortable on camera. Maybe training would help Kerr, or maybe she just isn't up to it like several of her male colleagues.
When the womens world cup was on a few years back we had 5 women presenting it, I had no problem with that whatsoever. I think someone did though as a male presenter was soon added.

[Andy74]

Presumably those opposed to female pundits on the basis that they never played at the level they are discussing were also opposed to Wenger and Mourinho being managers because they never played at the level they managed?

Being a pundit requires a different skill set to being a player. It requires the ability to communicate fluently and provide insight into what is happening. Kerr fails on both counts whilst Crichton does fine, particularly since she's just starting her career.

I'd like to see our captain Murray get some media training because what she says is worth hearing, but she looks very uncomfortable on camera. Maybe training would help Kerr, or maybe she just isn't up to it like several of her male colleagues.

They were professional players in the same game though.

I think across football management if you want to use that example there will be very few examples of managers being given jobs at professional clubs if their playing experience was equivalent to say Hutchie Vale.

On BT Sport tonight for Real Madrid v Liverpool is it sexist to say I prefer the likes of Michael Owen and Steve McManaman who have played for both teams at this level than potentially hearing what someone who played for Liverpool ladies had to say? That’s just the point I’m making.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They were professional players in the same game though.

I think across football management if you want to use that example there will be very few examples of managers being given jobs at professional clubs if their playing experience was equivalent to say Hutchie Vale.

On BT Sport tonight for Real Madrid v Liverpool is it sexist to say I prefer the likes of Michael Owen and Steve McManaman who have played for both teams at this level than potentially hearing what someone who played for Liverpool ladies had to say? That’s just the point I’m making.

I don’t know if it’s sexist but it is mental - they’re both horrendous pundits that just tell you what you’ve watched.

I assume you don’t expect them to be analysing any saves goalies make it any defensive strategies given they’ve never done that at the level they’re analysing?

[AgentDaleCooper]

it's such a shame this is such a long thread. can shelly kerr not just be a crap pundit like the rest of them and we get on with it? i find a lot of the 'woke' stuff and identity politics to be problematic and annoying (as well as some of it being necessary), but if it bothers you that she's a woman you really need to just accept that there's something wrong with you. there are far more important things in life than the gender of a sportscene pundit, so do yourselves a favour and go find a hill that's actually worth dying on. :confused:

[Jay]

I for one don’t switch off. I’m just talking about preference of what experts I’d prefer to hear from.

It’s not an issue of what sex they are for me, it is the fact that they haven’t played at a level where I would take much from their experience. Pretty much a fact I’m afraid that women don’t play in the men’s game so that puts them in the same bracket as the vast majority of men who I also wouldn’t really want to hear from as only a small percentage have played professionally.

I’ve no issue at all with the various female presenters or journalists being involved. They aren’t there to give that sort of input.

A lot of the male ex players are rubbish too because they might lack other TV skills or a personality. So ideally I prefer the pundits to be ex players who have experienced the type of big games they are commenting on and also have the communication skills to be enjoyable to listen to.

Does this theory only apply to football? Should Sue Barker, Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert only discuss women's tennis?

[Andy74]

I don’t know if it’s sexist but it is mental - they’re both horrendous pundits that just tell you what you’ve watched.

I assume you don’t expect them to be analysing any saves goalies make it any defensive strategies given they’ve never done that at the level they’re analysing?

Think that is getting a bit silly now but they are closer to it having played in these games. Nothing wrong in recognising that the male and female versions of the games are quite different.

I’d have no real desire to hear a man’s analysis of a netball match either. Some things don’t really require situations to be forced.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Think that is getting a bit silly now but they are closer to it having played in these games. Nothing wrong in recognising that the male and female versions of the games are quite different.

I’d have no real desire to hear a man’s analysis of a netball match either. Some things don’t really require situations to be forced.

I don’t think it’s my point that’s silly. If we follow your logic, how can someone that’s never been in goals discuss what the goalie done wrong or have done differently?

[hibsbollah]

They were professional players in the same game though.

I think across football management if you want to use that example there will be very few examples of managers being given jobs at professional clubs if their playing experience was equivalent to say Hutchie Vale.

On BT Sport tonight for Real Madrid v Liverpool is it sexist to say I prefer the likes of Michael Owen and Steve McManaman who have played for both teams at this level than potentially hearing what someone who played for Liverpool ladies had to say? That’s just the point I’m making.

Your nonsense about Hutchie Vale or 'juvenile football' being equivalent to womens football is ridiculous. (Also, i dont even know what you meant earlier by 'juvenile football'. Ive never even heard this phrase being used before. What is it? U13? 13-17? Early Touches? what?).

Shelley Kerr is an awful coach and an awful pundit. But at that level of football, they are tactically astute. The players are learning how to combat a low block. They are learning diffferent techniques to achieve numerical superiority in different areas of the field. They are learning how to beat a high press by different passing scenarios. None of these things happen with any regularity at Hutchie Vale, or in 'juvenile football' whatever that means. It doesnt happen in 13+ kids football or younger age groups. And it doesnt happen in the lowland league either, and first hand experience tells me its far more amateur in a tactical sense than top level womens football. Physical conditioning, nutrition, recovery sessions, gym work is also at a comparable level to professional mens sport. Are they 'the same' physically? No. But in these and many other aspects the top womens players are perfectly qualified to talk about these elements which are equally as relevant in both mens and womens. Kerr and her colleagues went to a major tournament watched by over a billion TV viewers in huge stadiums. So theyre also uniquely qualified to discuss the pressure and preparation involved. Im not sure how thats not obvious to you?!

I dont care if youre a 'sexist' or not. Youre bandying those words about, noone else. But you ARE spectacularly ignorant about football.

[Andy74]

I don’t think it’s my point that’s silly. If we follow your logic, how can someone that’s never been in goals discuss what the goalie done wrong or have done differently?

I’ll admit I’ve taken this argument to an extreme.

I’m not too bothered to be honest, but I’d prefer to hear from people who’ve played the same game. I don’t think the men’s and women’s games are the same.

Equally if we take the representation argument to an extreme we should probably just accept we should have mixed teams and just enjoy what that brings?

[Andy74]

Your nonsense about Hutchie Vale or 'juvenile football' being equivalent to womens football is ridiculous. (Also, i dont even know what you meant earlier by 'juvenile football'. Ive never even heard this phrase being used before. What is it? U13? 13-17? Early Touches? what?).

Shelley Kerr is an awful coach and an awful pundit. But at that level of football, they are tactically astute. The players are learning how to combat a low block. They are learning diffferent techniques to achieve numerical superiority in different areas of the field. They are learning how to beat a high press by different passing scenarios. None of these things happen with any regularity at Hutchie Vale, or in 'juvenile football' whatever that means. It doesnt happen in 13+ kids football or younger age groups. And it doesnt happen in the lowland league either, and first hand experience tells me its far more amateur in a tactical sense than top level womens football. Physical conditioning, nutrition, recovery sessions, gym work is also at a comparable level to professional mens sport. Are they 'the same' physically? No. But in these and many other aspects the top womens players are perfectly qualified to talk about these elements which are equally as relevant in both mens and womens. Kerr and her colleagues went to a major tournament watched by over a billion TV viewers in huge stadiums. So theyre also uniquely qualified to discuss the pressure and preparation involved. Im not sure how thats not obvious to you?!

I dont care if youre a 'sexist' or not. Youre bandying those words about, noone else. But you ARE spectacularly ignorant about football.

You make some very good points but you do have a habit on a few issues of thinking that you are enlightened. We can have a discussion without calling people ignorant.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’ll admit I’ve taken this argument to an extreme.

I’m not too bothered to be honest, but I’d prefer to hear from people who’ve played the same game. I don’t think the men’s and women’s games are the same.

Equally if we take the representation argument to an extreme we should probably just accept we should have mixed teams and just enjoy what that brings?

It’s the exact same game - same ball, same tactics, same size of goals etc etc. Only difference is the physicality and that’s down to genetics. We could get a genetic scientist into the studio to keep us right on that though.

[WeeRussell]

Think that is getting a bit silly now but they are closer to it having played in these games. Nothing wrong in recognising that the male and female versions of the games are quite different.

I’d have no real desire to hear a man’s analysis of a netball match either. Some things don’t really require situations to be forced.

What about men that have played and understand netball?

[Andy74]

What about men that have played and understand netball?

Fair point. It was a flippant and bad example which wasn’t really consistent with my argument.

[Andy74]

It’s the exact same game - same ball, same tactics, same size of goals etc etc. Only difference is the physicality and that’s down to genetics. We could get a genetic scientist into the studio to keep us right on that though.

Many will agree with you I’m sure but I think the physicality point is a huge one that makes for a very different game with different tactics and ways of playing. It isn’t just being a bit stronger or faster, the entire mechanics of the game change.

Football is our national game and yet there is virtually no spectator interest in the women’s game yet. Other countries may be more developed in that respect but I think it reflects that it is different to watch.

My 2 daughters play. We’ve all been to Hibs ladies games and of course they are enjoyable on their own merits.

We are talking about national TV coverage of elite level sport. It’s my view that those that have played the women’s version are not in that small number of people I’d have on the TV to talk about the men’s game just yet, in common with about 99.9% of men that have played.

[RyeSloan]

Kerr is awful...there is no doubting that!

I quite like Leanne Crichton when I’ve heard her on the Friday night games...she at least seems interested in what she’s saying and has enthusiasm for the game.

As for the usual male contingent...mostly awful with Mikey Stewart probably the best of a bad bunch.

Special mention to Marv though...think he has a career in TV waiting on him. Smooth, personable delivery pitched at a very good level for the viewer. More of this please!

[hibsbollah]

Kerr is awful...there is no doubting that!

I quite like Leanne Crichton when I’ve heard her on the Friday night games...she at least seems interested in what she’s saying and has enthusiasm for the game.

As for the usual male contingent...mostly awful with Mikey Stewart probably the best of a bad bunch.

Special mention to Marv though...think he has a career in TV waiting on him. Smooth, personable delivery pitched at a very good level for the viewer. More of this please!

About Marv; I was thinking to myself ‘am I biased because he’s Hibs through and though?...’ But I don’t think I am, he’s just as you say.

[Eyrie]

I've just had a worrying thought.

We've spent the last eight pages debating whether capable female pundits should be allowed to discuss the men's game when they've never played it, yet none of us who have posted on those eight pages have ever been a pundit, so what right do we have to comment on those who are pundits?

[The Modfather]

About Marv; I was thinking to myself ‘am I biased because he’s Hibs through and though?...’ But I don’t think I am, he’s just as you say.

While I agree Marv comes across well as a pundit. I do think there’s some classic football fan hypocrisy. Boyd was slated for talking up Rangers while still at Killie. Yet we love Marv talking up Hibs despite playing for Livi.

[WeeRussell]

While I agree Marv comes across well as a pundit. I do think there’s some classic football fan hypocrisy. Boyd was slated for talking up Rangers while still at Killie. Yet we love Marv talking up Hibs despite playing for Livi.

Take your point but there’s a difference in the way Marvin speaks about hibs as opposed to Boyd sitting in the huff when rangers have been pumped (which was more regularly at that time).

Anyway I’m exempt from this - I only used to slate him because he’s a slavering, bitter, hun moron 😀

[SMAXXA]

Out of interest see the woman’s highlights show on the other night who were the presenters and pundits?

[Kato]

While I agree Marv comes across well as a pundit. I do think there’s some classic football fan hypocrisy. Boyd was slated for talking up Rangers while still at Killie. Yet we love Marv talking up Hibs despite playing for Livi.

Your comparing a gentleman to a semi-housetrained, tattie faced bairn.

[Greenbeard]

I've just had a worrying thought.

We've spent the last eight pages debating whether capable female pundits should be allowed to discuss the men's game when they've never played it, yet none of us who have posted on those eight pages have ever been a pundit, so what right do we have to comment on those who are pundits?

I’ve never laid an egg but I can judge how good an omelette is.

[Shrekko]

Does this theory only apply to football? Should Sue Barker, Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert only discuss women's tennis?

No, but that doesn't mean anything in this argument. Lets just apply some logic as opposed to starting from a point of assuming sexism is in play.

If Martina is asked ANY question about a men's Grand Slam final you'll be hanging on to her every word. She's experienced umpteen women's finals and the similarities are very obvious. Her overall tennis experience is incredible- everything she tells you will be insightful. She's a great talker and is not scared to upset somebody with what she says.

If Alex Scott was asked what's it's like preparing for a male Champions League final what could she tell us of real value? Can you honestly say it's a fair comparison?

[Booker5time]

No, but that doesn't mean anything in this argument. Lets just apply some logic as opposed to starting from a point of assuming sexism is in play.

If Martina is asked ANY question about a men's Grand Slam final you'll be hanging on to her every word. She's experienced umpteen women's finals and the similarities are very obvious. Her overall tennis experience is incredible- everything she tells you will be insightful. She's a great talker and is not scared to upset somebody with what she says.

If Alex Scott was asked what's it's like preparing for a male Champions League final what could she tell us of real value? Can you honestly say it's a fair comparison?

Proberly not, a fair comparison but woman tennis has had a lot more opportunities to develop since the 60s and 70s with the likes of Billy Jean King and Martina Navratilova pushing the woman game on and making it more populur with the genreal public which lead to there own tour and equal prize money at the slams.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Scott_(footballer,_born_1984)

BTW Alex Scott seemed to have scored the winning goal in a champions League final for Arsenal, so maybe not the best example to use:wink::na na:

[WeeRussell]

No, but that doesn't mean anything in this argument. Lets just apply some logic as opposed to starting from a point of assuming sexism is in play.

If Martina is asked ANY question about a men's Grand Slam final you'll be hanging on to her every word. She's experienced umpteen women's finals and the similarities are very obvious. Her overall tennis experience is incredible- everything she tells you will be insightful. She's a great talker and is not scared to upset somebody with what she says.

If Alex Scott was asked what's it's like preparing for a male Champions League final what could she tell us of real value? Can you honestly say it's a fair comparison?

Not sure you’re applying that much logic with your argument when tennis is a sport in which men and women play to a different set of rules in grand slams, and men and women appear to play the same rules in football.