Should Scotland Join the Qatar Protests

[FilipinoHibs]

https://www.goal.com/en/news/netherlands-join-germany-norway-in-making-qatar-human-rights/cirepzsf5gd11pkqjhsdfh5d8

[NGP]

These protests are just tokenism, if football associations and players are serious about their commitment to human rights, they would resuse to go to Qatar or withdraw from the tournament.

[jgl07]

Qatar are not perfect, rather like the UAE, but in the League Table of Human Rights abusers they are way down the list. Way behind the likes of China, Iran and even Trump’s USA.

[monteddie]

[QUOTE=jgl07;6509830]Qatar are not perfect, rather like the UAE, but in the League Table of Human Rights abusers they are way down the list. Way behind the likes of China, Iran and even Trump’s USA.[/QUO
This tournament will take place.The brown envelopes collected by FIFA executives before the finals were awarded will ensure they go ahead. Unfortunately the protests today are a little to late.

[PompeyHibs]

Football should have nothing to do with politics!
Its a sport for enjoyment and should not be used as a vehicle to change the world.
Lets hope we qualify for the WC

Sky sports news is getting more like the normal main stream news channels than a sports channel these days - very annoying! Stick to show casing sporting events and giving out the results as plenty other channels to choose from to watch depressing stuff on

[FilipinoHibs]

Football should have nothing to do with politics!
Its a sport for enjoyment and should not be used as a vehicle to change the world.
Lets hope we qualify for the WC

Sky sports news is getting more like the normal main stream news channels than a sports channel these days - very annoying! Stick to show casing sporting events and giving out the results as plenty other channels to choose from to watch depressing stuff on

There is a direct relationship between the World Cup, building of stadiums and and the deaths of thousands of migrant workers. You can't separate that.

[lord bunberry]

There is a direct relationship between the World Cup, building of stadiums and and the deaths of thousands of migrant workers. You can't separate that.
Is it really thousands of workers that have died? If that’s true the World Cup should be moved somewhere else.

[hibsbollah]

Is it really thousands of workers that have died? If that’s true the World Cup should be moved somewhere else.

6500 dead. Almost definitely an underestimate. Many of them worked to death, passports taken off them on arrival, slave wages.

[lord bunberry]

6500 dead. Almost definitely an underestimate. Many of them worked to death, passports taken off them on arrival, slave wages.
That’s appalling, no way should a country treating people that way be considered suitable to hold such a prestigious event. The tournament should be moved to England.

[WhileTheChief..]

21st century slavery going on right under everyone’s noses but barely a peep from anyone for years.

Where’s the street protests? Asian lives don’t matter as much?

[hibsbollah]

21st century slavery going on right under everyone’s noses but barely a peep from anyone for years.

Where’s the street protests? Asian lives don’t matter as much?

Yep. Life for a Bangladeshi in Qatar probably isn’t that different from a Uighur in a camp. Work all hours of the day, getting abused and the ****ers still not paying me.

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s actual slavery we’re talking about here.

Tournament should be moved but I’d love to see numerous countries just stay away, including Scotland if we qualify.

[Just_Jimmy]

It’s actual slavery we’re talking about here.

Tournament should be moved but I’d love to see numerous countries just stay away, including Scotland if we qualify.problem is it would really take the big countries likely to win it, such as Brazil, Germany, France and dare I say it, England.

Scotland should also make it clear we'll not take part if we qualify which would be gutting, however alone, no one would even notice.

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[Ozyhibby]

Wearing t-shirts is pointless. We should refuse to go if we qualify. Even my 14 year old thinks that and he is desperate to see us in a World Cup.


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[WhileTheChief..]

It would put huge pressure on England though, I’d have thought?

It would certainly cause ripples around the world and make people talk. That would at least be a start.

[Dmas]

Wearing t-shirts is pointless. We should refuse to go if we qualify. Even my 14 year old thinks that and he is desperate to see us in a World Cup.


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I don’t see why bother with qualifying once one team pulls out the rest will follow, everyone except fifa and Qatar will benefit from just stopping the 2022 World Cup now

[basehibby]

It's a tricky one as, arguably, we should be protesting against ourselves right now as part of the UK - for being the only major supplier of bombs to Saudi for dropping on Yemen and therefore killing thousands of innocents on an ongoing basis. And then we could protest our next opponents - Israel - for the nation's ongoing illegal actions against the Palestinians - and for that matter, should we protest Hibs for playing Rocky???

Historically though you could probably have made a similar argument for most WC Finals - and not just for the home nations either.

The WC Finals should never have been given to Qatar anyway because 1) the requirement to move about the seasons of about 90% of the leagues on the planet to accommodate it and 2) Because Qatar's contribution to football over the years has been SOD ALL - outside of the brown envelopes they must have stuffed into FIFA pockets to gain this WC of course.

So - ultimately such protests could be seen as hypocritical. I don't think in any case that it's the place of Football Associations to make grandiose political gestures so, if you believe the WC should be protested or boycotted it's your MP you should be lobbying rather than the SFA.

[The Pointer]

Football should have nothing to do with politics!
Its a sport for enjoyment and should not be used as a vehicle to change the world.
Lets hope we qualify for the WC

Sky sports news is getting more like the normal main stream news channels than a sports channel these days - very annoying! Stick to show casing sporting events and giving out the results as plenty other channels to choose from to watch depressing stuff on

Absolutely spot on. Keep politics out of sport and let politicians deal with it. Sport plays it's part by just going ahead and giving pleasure to millions without a 'message'.

[WhileTheChief..]

Slaves are being used for this tournament to go ahead.

Thought it was worth repeating.

You think that’s only a ‘message’??

[Centre Hawf]

Football should have nothing to do with politics!
Its a sport for enjoyment and should not be used as a vehicle to change the world.
Lets hope we qualify for the WC

Sky sports news is getting more like the normal main stream news channels than a sports channel these days - very annoying! Stick to show casing sporting events and giving out the results as plenty other channels to choose from to watch depressing stuff on

Football, and sport in general, is a fantastic platform to raise awareness of the mistreatment of those who cannot speak for themselves. If being reminded of how horrible this world can be to certain demographics of people is upsetting to you then be thankful you're not one of the people living through it.

[gbhibby]

Surely Hugh fines coming for these countries if FIFA have the same rules on political gestures as UEFA.

[Keith_M]

These protests are just tokenism, if football associations and players are serious about their commitment to human rights, they would resuse to go to Qatar or withdraw from the tournament.


:agree:

[Keith_M]

Wearing t-shirts is pointless. We should refuse to go if we qualify. Even my 14 year old thinks that and he is desperate to see us in a World Cup.


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That's my view as well.

I think the biggest protest any team could make is to qualify then refuse to go.

[MWHIBBIES]

These protests are just tokenism, if football associations and players are serious about their commitment to human rights, they would resuse to go to Qatar or withdraw from the tournament.

They're not tokenism. They are serious and its good. Withdrawing from the tournament would have much less effect than going to it and highlighting the abuses there. I hope they qualifiy and keep the protest up.

[Keith_M]

They're not tokenism. They are serious and its good. Withdrawing from the tournament would have much less effect than going to it and highlighting the abuses there. I hope they qualifiy and keep the protest up.


I'd imagine that a country that qualified for the tournament and then refused to go on principle, would have a much bigger effect than some players wearing T-Shirts with a message on it (even if it is well intentioned).

[MWHIBBIES]

I'd imagine that a country that qualified for the tournament and then refused to go on principle, would have a much bigger effect than some players wearing T-Shirts with a message on it (even if it is well intentioned).

Well, that all depends on the coverage. They could easily just brush over a country not coming. A protest infront of millions of TV has more effect.

[Centre Hawf]

I'd imagine that a country that qualified for the tournament and then refused to go on principle, would have a much bigger effect than some players wearing T-Shirts with a message on it (even if it is well intentioned).

I think both are valid routes. A country refusing to go could be a massive story at the time but once the tournament rolls round let's be honest it would be fairly forgotten about and at best only brought up when the team replacing them plays instead. If for example Haaland or Mbappe scored a 92nd minute winner against Spain and ripped his top off to reveal something underneath in protest that would certainly send shockwaves as well.

There is no one answer to fixing any of societies problems, consistent conversation and acts like this CAN help in the long term and apply pressure where it matters. What doesn't help is batting down smaller individual acts as tokenism and moving on. The same way that people kept saying that taking the knee before a game wasn't going to solve racism, of course it isn't. But has the conversation been magnified in that time? Definitely. Does more need to be done alongside it? Absolutely.

[Fisherrow Harp]

They're not tokenism. They are serious and its good. Withdrawing from the tournament would have much less effect than going to it and highlighting the abuses there. I hope they qualifiy and keep the protest up.
I remember a similar argument for the Scotland rugby team going to South Africa during apartheid, I do not buy it.

[CMurdoch]

Sadly people are acting 10 years too late on Qatar.
This was madness from the start.
Wearing t shirts isn't enough. Pressuring FIFA to support the families of workers who died would be a much better start. These were poor people and their families have in many cases lost their breadwinner. FIFA are culpable, given all that has happened was predictable so helping those damaged families financially is the least they can do.

The world has another chance to act now with China but the silence is deafening.
Where were they when hellish genocide was occurring in the former Yugoslavia.

Humans are the only animal that blushes and the only one that needs to.

Bottom line is everything in the world is driven by the love of money, privilege and power.
They don't even try to hide it anymore.
Hell, Trump got elected!!!

[Tommy75]

100% Scotland should not go if they qualify. Although, as someone mentioned further up, it may take one of the 'big' nations to refuse before Fifa and the sponsors actually began to care.

Here we are in 2021, renaming buildings and streets with links to slavery and colonialism well over 100 years ago yet we are prepared to let a country host the world cup (arguably the most high profile sporting event in the world) when the infrastructure has been built on (alleged) slave labour.

[GreenCastle]

Why are countries taking part in qualification process ?

[marinello59]

Surely Scotland have already done their bit by selflessly boycotting every World Cup since 1998? Let’s just try and take part in this one. :greengrin

[Mick O'Rourke]

Topic reminds me when Scotland played in Chile prior to Argentina 1978

We played a friendly at the invite of a dictatorship in Santiago ,Chile 1977, to warm up for our participation in Argentina'78, a Country which itself was, like Chile, under a military dictatorship.

World Cup Finals and Olympic Games during the 20th Century were played in Countries run by governments/regimes many at the time found offensive and brutal.

Money talks, and that is the only reason (and way)Qatar got the Finals.
Shameful, but no surprise to me.
FIFA has been rotten to the core for decades.

The "Match of shame" article in link below.

https://www.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/scotland-v-chile-friendly-labelled-match-shame-1433958

Out of interest
There is a documentary still available on BBC IPlayer
Title
"Pele ,Argentina and the Dictators".
Worth watching

[Viva_Palmeiras]

FIFA and The Olympic committee should have ethical standards and policies.

They most certainly do.

Stifle your laughs at the back please.

anti bribery
anti corruption
anti money laundering
anti slave labour

it only should they have them but implement them - the problem is that policies tend to put the onus on the individual.

I don’t think games should be hosted in solely one country. Countries (such as Brazil) should never be prioritising building Stadia (in the Amazon where in the end I don’t think it was used) over building hospitals and investing in education.

So countries that sign up to hosting the Olympics or World Cup should be assessed on criteria including such as those above - not merely the dosh to carry things off.

[neil7908]

I'm personally not going to watch it, even if Scotland qualify. I'll admit I've probably drifted away from international football over the years so it's maybe not as big a thing for me to miss a World Cup as it would have been 10-15 years ago but it's an absolute disgrace, and corruption on such an obvious and staggeringly level, that they are hosting it.

I'd love to see Scotland do whatever we can to highlight the issues. Slave labour and deaths obviously top of the list but their record on so many issues, including LGBT, it's shocking.

Next up it'll be hosted in North Korea, Saudi Arabia or Myanmar if they pay enough.

[neil7908]

FIFA and The Olympic committee should have ethical standards and policies.

They most certainly do.

Stifle your laughs at the back please.

anti bribery
anti corruption
anti money laundering
anti slave labour

it only should they have them but implement them - the problem is that policies tend to put the onus on the individual.

I don’t think games should be hosted in solely one country. Countries (such as Brazil) should never be prioritising building Stadia (in the Amazon where in the end I don’t think it was used) over building hospitals and investing in education.

So countries that sign up to hosting the Olympics or World Cup should be assessed on criteria including such as those above - not merely the dosh to carry things off.

Agree with the shared hosting. What is going to happen to all these stadia in Qatar? I know they are loaded with oil money now but that gravy train is coming to an end.

I was initially against the new format of the Euros as I but its actually a much better format and allows many more people to have a chance of seeing their country play, creating a much better atmosphere.

[MWHIBBIES]

Agree with the shared hosting. What is going to happen to all these stadia in Qatar? I know they are loaded with oil money now but that gravy train is coming to an end.

I was initially against the new format of the Euros as I but its actually a much better format and allows many more people to have a chance of seeing their country play, creating a much better atmosphere.

They are being dismantled and sold, brick by brick.

[Lancs Harp]

Agree with the shared hosting. What is going to happen to all these stadia in Qatar? I know they are loaded with oil money now but that gravy train is coming to an end.

I was initially against the new format of the Euros as I but its actually a much better format and allows many more people to have a chance of seeing their country play, creating a much better atmosphere.

The format being used for Euro 2020 is just a one off, the tournament goes back to being held in one country in 2024 (Germany from memory I think)

[jgl07]

The issue is that the World Cup should never have been played in a country with a population of less than 3 million of whom 320,000 are citizens.

We all know it only went to Qatar because of the brown envelopes received by Platini and other FIFA officials. The whole thing is a total farce. Platini and others were kicked out of FIFA but the decision was not changed.

Qatar has next to no football infrastructure and they are building five new 45,000 capacity stadiums. What the hell will happen to them afterwards no-one knows? Six large stadia for a country with half the population of Scotland is a bad joke.

The deaths are all down to working conditions with the temperature of over 40 degees C from May to September.

The protests should be about the level of corruption in World Football administration whuch allowed this to happen.

Apart from anything else it really is going to mess up the football calender for the season after next.

[Pretty Boy]

They are being dismantled and sold, brick by brick.

Hence why Scotland won't be taking part in any protests. That friendly at ER all those years ago wasn't for nothing.

One of those stadiums or parts thereof will be sitting in Mount Florida by the mid 2020s.

[WhileTheChief..]

There was definitely talk of that a while back. Interesting to see if anything comes of it or if it was conspiracy theory stuff.

[jgl07]

They are being dismantled and sold, brick by brick.

Believe that and you will believe anything!

[Keith_M]

Looks like we're planning on doing our usual World Cup Finals 'boycott' after all.

[Andy74]

Yes, we should definitely make it clear we will be boycotting Qatar.

[cabbageandribs1875]

NOW is an ideal time to protest

[jacomo]

Qatar are not perfect, rather like the UAE, but in the League Table of Human Rights abusers they are way down the list. Way behind the likes of China, Iran and even Trump’s USA.


Is it now?

[FilipinoHibs]

We really should not be playing sport in countries with a human rights record like Qatar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar

I have travelled via Qatar several times on my own and had no issues. Two years ago I travelled with my wife who is a Filipino national. Despite having a valid visa to enter the UK she was detained and questioned for an hour. The country like most Middle Eastern countries is fundamentally racist.

Bahrain is another and I noticed
That Lewis Hamilton despite all his BLM activity made no mention of the situation in the country this weekend at the F1 race. Money talks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Bahrain

[blackpoolhibs]

We would probably need to get in around 2pm to see the players kneel, hold racism cards up, tie their multicoloured boot laces, and do every other support act they will need to do soon for a 3pm kick off.

[SlickShoes]

Anyone taking part in these protests also needs to stop going to Dubai on holiday.

Dubai is still being built on the backs of slave labour from SE Asia, Bagladesh, India, Pakistan and more countries.

If you scratch the surface even a little bit you can see it as plain as day.

Qatar is just as bad if not worse, even westerners working there will have their employer hold their passport and you have to be granted permission to leave the country. That should worry anyone who really thinks about what you are giving up when you do that. 100 times worse when you are being paid buttons and living in squalor just to build a stadium that will possibly not even be used after the world cup.

[Pretty Boy]

People may argue that sports shouldn't get involved in politics but that ignores the fact that these regimes are guilty of sportwashing their humans rights abuses. How can sport not become involved in that when it is being used as a pawn in a bigger game?

The Saudi Cup has just usurped the Dubai World Cup as the richest horse race in the world, the Joshua v Fury fight looks set to go there, the World Cup is going to Qatar, the 2022 winter Olympics is going to China. Arabtec sponsoring Man City, the Qatari ownership of PSG.... If we want to look at Europe then the prominence of MTK Global in boxing is a blatant example of sportwashing and money laundering combined.

How do you disentangle sport from that and say we shouldn't get involved in politics? Refusing to award these countries the events is politics, attending and facilitating the sportwashing is politics, protesting against it is politics.....

[Keith_M]

Sep Blatter was elected president of FIFA in 1998.

Scotland has made a point of boycotting every World Cup and European finals since then.

Don't say we're not doing our bit.

[jacomo]

People may argue that sports shouldn't get involved in politics but that ignores the fact that these regimes are guilty of sportwashing their humans rights abuses. How can sport not become involved in that when it is being used as a pawn in a bigger game?

The Saudi Cup has just usurped the Dubai World Cup as the richest horse race in the world, the Joshua v Fury fight looks set to go there, the World Cup is going to Qatar, the 2022 winter Olympics is going to China. Arabtec sponsoring Man City, the Qatari ownership of PSG.... If we want to look at Europe then the prominence of MTK Global in boxing is a blatant example of sportwashing and money laundering combined.

How do you disentangle sport from that and say we shouldn't get involved in politics? Refusing to award these countries the events is politics, attending and facilitating the sportwashing is politics, protesting against it is politics.....


Yes, FIFA should have refused Qatar the right to host the World Cup.

People should absolutely stop going to these places on holiday.

[Perfectly Loud]

Qatar are not perfect, rather like the UAE, but in the League Table of Human Rights abusers they are way down the list. Way behind the likes of China, Iran and even Trump’s USA.

😮 We are honoured. I had no idea David Beckham posted on this forum.

[loanheadhibby]

They're not tokenism. They are serious and its good. Withdrawing from the tournament would have much less effect than going to it and highlighting the abuses there. I hope they qualifiy and keep the protest up.

They are tokenism tho. If the players/association really had any strong thoughts on this they would refuse to play in qualifiers, never mind the tournament. Money talks tho and if a country qualifies, you can bet your life they’ll be at tournament.

And if the players are that concerned, why not donate their wages from the tournament to the workers and/or surviving families.

[SlickShoes]

They are tokenism tho. If the players/association really had any strong thoughts on this they would refuse to play in qualifiers, never mind the tournament. Money talks tho and if a country qualifies, you can bet your life they’ll be at tournament.

And if the players are that concerned, why not donate their wages from the tournament to the workers and/or surviving families.

Donating money to the workers doesn't solve the problem. Anything raising awareness is useful, ultimately the players can't do anything that will stop this happening unless all players agree not to attend the tournament.

[loanheadhibby]

Donating money to the workers doesn't solve the problem. Anything raising awareness is useful, ultimately the players can't do anything that will stop this happening unless all players agree not to attend the tournament.

Which is exactly my point. It’s tokenism from players as they know nothing will change and they will take the money from FIFA/Associations/Sponsors

[hibsbollah]

Amnesty calls for FIFA to act, set up $440 million fund for abused workers and slave labourers.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/05/fifa-time-to-compensate-migrant-workers-in-qatar/

[MKHIBEE]

Amnesty calls for FIFA to act, set up $440 million fund for abused workers and slave labourers.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/05/fifa-time-to-compensate-migrant-workers-in-qatar/

And FIFA will come up with some bs why they can’t/ won’t/ shouldn’t get involved in compensating workers

[StirlingHibee]

Qatar are not perfect, rather like the UAE, but in the League Table of Human Rights abusers they are way down the list. Way behind the likes of China, Iran and even Trump’s USA.
Agree. I spend a bit of time in this part of the world and it has its shortcomings with regards to human rights but let’s not believe it has a monopoly on it. There are significant human rights issues throughout the western world and simply smacks of tokenism when people start pointing their finger at the Middle East.

[Frazerbob]

The World Cup should be awarded to either a football nation or a developing football nation to help progress the game. Qatar is neither. Throw in it’s horrendous human rights record and lack of facilities to cope with such an event and it should not be hosting. It’s should be an honour and privilege to host the World Cup.

I follow Scotland home and away, rarely miss a game but will not be going anywhere near Doha should we qualify.

[ekhibee]

For me, Scotland should not go even if they do qualify, but then also IMO all the other countries who qualified should refuse to take part as well. I don't really see there's much of an argument in favour of keeping them in Qatar, people's lives are and always will be more important than football, regardless of those who just want to ignore that and get on with the football. Slavery is an abomination, and the fact it still exists in the 21st century is a sad enditement on any kind of civilized culture. Just my opinion though.

[hibsbollah]

Cantona inserts his oar right in there.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/qatar-world-cup-cantona-condemn-only-about-money

[MWHIBBIES]

Sadly all too little too late. They've had 10 years to speak up. Very few did. Spineless shills like Zidane and Xavi even backed it.

[JimBHibees]

Sadly all too little too late. They've had 10 years to speak up. Very few did. Spineless shills like Zidane and Xavi even backed it.

Virtually the whole of European football backed it. Absolutely shamefully corrupt

[Jones28]

Sadly all too little too late. They've had 10 years to speak up. Very few did. Spineless shills like Zidane and Xavi even backed it.

Yepp. It stank when it was announced and it stinks even more now.

Where were all these protests at the time of the announcement?