Dunblane - 25 Years On

[Pretty Boy]

It's hard to believe it's 25 years since this happened. I can still clearly remember my parents trying to tell me about it and my teacher at the time trying to hold it together in school when talking to us about what had occurred.

There are many tragic events that I can look at, talk about and assess in an almost detached way but Dunblane gets me every time. Everything I read about it or watch about it makes me well up. The absolute senselessness of it is the worst part.

It's to the credit of the country as a whole that we acted quickly and decisively to minimise the chances of something like it ever happening again.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Awful, awful day.

I was 13. Old enough to know it could have happened to any of us.

[Keith_M]

I remember being on a lunch break at work and people discussing what they'd heard on the radio, and I just couldn't take it all in.

About two years before the shooting, I'd actually had a window cleaning round in a lot of the housing estates near the school but had passed them on to a mate. My first thought was to phone him up and see if he was OK (which makes no sense whatsoever, but my brain wasn't working right)


I recently read up on the history of the guy and it looked like he was one really messed up individual, and had been for about twenty years.

[Sir David Gray]

Horrendous.

Living within the Forth Valley area, it's something which felt even closer to home.

My wee brother was in P1 at the time, same age as the children who were murdered.

My mum works with the police as a civilian member of staff and at the time she worked in a station within the Stirling area. She was on duty that day and still remembers the calls that came in over the police radio from the officers who were first on the scene - needless to say it's something they will never get over.

She also remembers the calls from the media (at that time it was possible to call your local station directly) and journalists were asking her all sorts of questions. She knew how serious it was but obviously couldn't tell them anything.

Thankfully lessons have been learned in this country and we have never experienced a massacre on such a scale ever since.

Long may that continue and RIP to the 16 kids and 1 teacher.

[Keith_M]

Horrendous.

Living within the Forth Valley area, it's something which felt even closer to home.

My wee brother was in P1 at the time, same age as the children who were murdered.

My mum works with the police as a civilian member of staff and at the time she worked in a station within the Stirling area. She was on duty that day and still remembers the calls that came in over the police radio from the officers who were first on the scene - needless to say it's something they will never get over.

She also remembers the calls from the media (at that time it was possible to call your local station directly) and journalists were asking her all sorts of questions. She knew how serious it was but obviously couldn't tell them anything.

Thankfully lessons have been learned in this country and we have never experienced a massacre on such a scale ever since.

Long may that continue and RIP to the 16 kids and 1 teacher.


That must have been horrendous for your mum.

[Pretty Boy]

Horrendous.

Living within the Forth Valley area, it's something which felt even closer to home.

My wee brother was in P1 at the time, same age as the children who were murdered.

My mum works with the police as a civilian member of staff and at the time she worked in a station within the Stirling area. She was on duty that day and still remembers the calls that came in over the police radio from the officers who were first on the scene - needless to say it's something they will never get over.

She also remembers the calls from the media (at that time it was possible to call your local station directly) and journalists were asking her all sorts of questions. She knew how serious it was but obviously couldn't tell them anything.

Thankfully lessons have been learned in this country and we have never experienced a massacre on such a scale ever since.

Long may that continue and RIP to the 16 kids and 1 teacher.

That must have been awful.

I was at uni with a guy, same age as me, who was from Dunblane and in the school at the time. There was that awkward moment when he said where he was from and you don't really know if it's rude to mention it or worse not mention it. He never, ever spoke about it apart from once when was absolutely out of it after a night out and muttered something about hearing gun shots when he slept.

I'm still friends with him on Facebook and we have seen each other at a couple of running events over the years and I noticed he has posted a picture of some snowdrops this morning. I think that's the 1st time I've seen him acknowledge it on social media in any way.

I really don't know how people like your Mum and my mate deal with what they seen and heard.

[Santa Cruz]

It wasn't the sort of atrocity you ever imagined would happen in Scotland. I was explaining to my daughter that is the reason schools are more secure buildings now, she thought it was always the case you had to get someone in the office to give a parent or visitor access to enter the main building. Without a doubt the most evil act that has occurred in my lifetime in this country. 25 years on and I still can't comprehend how anyone could attack a group of innocent children and their brave Teacher.

[danhibees1875]

I am maybe just too young for it - I was 4 at the time and have no recollection at all of it happening.

I'm curious - for those who have said lessons were learned, and the country acted to stop it happening again... What happened or changed?

[Keith_M]

I am maybe just too young for it - I was 4 at the time and have no recollection at all of it happening.

I'm curious - for those who have said lessons were learned, and the country acted to stop it happening again... What happened or changed?


The gun laws were changed and entrances to all schools were made ultra secure.

Up until that point, you could basically walk in the front door of any school unchallenged.

[Santa Cruz]

I am maybe just too young for it - I was 4 at the time and have no recollection at all of it happening.

I'm curious - for those who have said lessons were learned, and the country acted to stop it happening again... What happened or changed?

Private ownership of most handguns was banned, prior to this as I understand it, it was legal if you had a license. This change only came about due to pressure being applied by the parents and community in Dunblane on the Gov. They had to fight for it, the change was initially resisted when John Major was PM, if I recall rightly the change came about under Blairs premiership.

School buildings were made safer. Nobody other than staff could just walk in unchecked, as happened that day. Access had to be given and main doors secured.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am maybe just too young for it - I was 4 at the time and have no recollection at all of it happening.

I'm curious - for those who have said lessons were learned, and the country acted to stop it happening again... What happened or changed?

The likelihood of something like that happening again is very small. Compare that to the US experience, and their response to the many similar occurrences.

If there is any comfort to be had, it's that.

[Pretty Boy]

I am maybe just too young for it - I was 4 at the time and have no recollection at all of it happening.

I'm curious - for those who have said lessons were learned, and the country acted to stop it happening again... What happened or changed?

Basically after Dunblane legally owning a handgun in the UK became almost impossible with a few exceptions. It was one of the things the Major govt can be proud off and Blair tightened it further the following year. As also mentioned it also saw schools made far more secure. I can still remember people being able to walk into my primary school off the streets unchallenged.

I think we still have some of the tightest gun control laws in the world.

[Pretty Boy]

Private ownership of most handguns was banned, prior to this as I understand it, it was legal if you had a license. This change only came about due to pressure being applied by the parents and community in Dunblane on the Gov. They had to fight for it, the change was initially resisted when John Major was PM, if I recall rightly the change came about under Blairs premiership.

School buildings were made safer. Nobody other than staff could just walk in unchecked, as happened that day. Access had to be given and main doors secured.

It was the Major Govt who enacted the original law. Blair tightened it to include .22 handguns as well.

[Santa Cruz]

It was the Major Govt who enacted the original law. Blair tightened it to include .22 handguns as well.

I was under the impression there was an initial reluctance due to pressure from groups lobbying the gov who used guns for recreational purposes? I'm clearly mistaken. So what type of guns did Major's Gov ban ownership of?

[Pretty Boy]

I was under the impression there was an initial reluctance due to pressure from groups lobbying the gov who used guns for recreational purposes? I'm clearly mistaken. So what type of guns did Major's Gov ban ownership of?

There almost certainly was resistance. There always is.

The initial Act banned all handguns with the exception of the .22, so higher calibre weapons. That was the recommendation of the Cullen Report. Blair went further after the Snowdrop Campaign.

[DaveF]

I was in our office in Cockburn street when the news broke. I don't remember much from 25 years ago but this clear.

How any human could point a gun at children and murder them is beyond words.

A dreadful day.

[danhibees1875]

Thanks for the responses. :aok:

To be honest, I was ignorantly unaware that people were allowed to own guns prior to that happening. Were they as problematic generally as they appear to be in the US today?

Makes sense regarding schools entrance systems. I'm trying to think back now and can remember keypads on various doors at my primary school. Again I'd probably just put that down as something that had always been there.

[Hibs Class]

When I was growing up it was said that older folk could remember where they were when they heard about JFK’s assassination. I think Dunblane was my generation’s equivalent.

[Keith_M]

Thanks for the responses. :aok:

To be honest, I was ignorantly unaware that people were allowed to own guns prior to that happening. Were they as problematic generally as they appear to be in the US today?

Makes sense regarding schools entrance systems. I'm trying to think back now and can remember keypads on various doors at my primary school. Again I'd probably just put that down as something that had always been there.


I was brought up in a small village in East Lothian and the number of people that owned shotguns and .22 handguns and rifles was unbelievable.

I only ever shot at tin cans but almost everybody I knew had used one at least once (even if it was just to try it out).

There was a shop called 'Field and Stream' at Abbeyhill where you could buy .22's quite freely.



(It used to be HERE (https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9572788,-3.1699916,3a,75y,324.6h,92.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOgBkh6tnFUy4pIk89Xhl0g!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656))

[Billy Whizz]

It’s one of these horrific things that happen in your lifetime, that you know where you were when you heard the tragic news

[pollution]

There is a 100 year ban on some of the outcomes of an investigation into the shooting, but I have never heard anything about it.

[Sir David Gray]

That must have been horrendous for your mum.

Yeah it was a really distressing thing to experience. She recently reached her 40th anniversary with the police and as someone who works in the front reception and types up statements from victims and witnesses for all sorts of offences, you can imagine some of the horrendous things she's dealt with over years. However that day remains etched in her memory and something she'll never forget.

A short while before that day she also received a call from Thomas Hamilton which was also a pretty horrifying experience looking back with what we know.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks for the responses. :aok:

To be honest, I was ignorantly unaware that people were allowed to own guns prior to that happening. Were they as problematic generally as they appear to be in the US today?

Makes sense regarding schools entrance systems. I'm trying to think back now and can remember keypads on various doors at my primary school. Again I'd probably just put that down as something that had always been there.

To answer your question.. things were certainly not as bad as the US; we didn't have any equivalent of the 2nd amendment for one thing, and our cultural relationship with guns was entirely different.

However, taking the view that "Most things that happen in the US eventually happen here", there was always the potential for it to happen. And that absence of a similar culture made it so much easier to change things.

[Keith_M]

Yeah it was a really distressing thing to experience. She recently reached her 40th anniversary with the police and as someone who works in the front reception and types up statements from victims and witnesses for all sorts of offences, you can imagine some of the horrendous things she's dealt with over years. However that day remains etched in her memory and something she'll never forget.

A short while before that day she also received a call from Thomas Hamilton which was also a pretty horrifying experience looking back with what we know.


Jeezo, that's awful mate.


IIRC, Hamilton was actually harassing members of Central Police because they'd dared to investigate his behaviour.

The guy was a really nasty piece of work.

[ballengeich]

Jeezo, that's awful mate.


IIRC, Hamilton was actually harassing members of Central Police because they'd dared to investigate his behaviour.

The guy was a really nasty piece of work.
Tommy Hamilton was known in the area as someone who continually offered to assist in the running of youth groups. He was also known by organisers of such groups as someone whose assistance should be declined. If he was contacting Central Police I suspect it was to object to their objections to him.

[Sir David Gray]

Tommy Hamilton was known in the area as someone who continually offered to assist in the running of youth groups. He was also known by organisers of such groups as someone whose assistance should be declined. If he was contacting Central Police I suspect it was to object to their objections to him.

:agree: That was the reason for his call that day.

[Mon Dieu4]

Horrendous.

Living within the Forth Valley area, it's something which felt even closer to home.

My wee brother was in P1 at the time, same age as the children who were murdered.

My mum works with the police as a civilian member of staff and at the time she worked in a station within the Stirling area. She was on duty that day and still remembers the calls that came in over the police radio from the officers who were first on the scene - needless to say it's something they will never get over.

She also remembers the calls from the media (at that time it was possible to call your local station directly) and journalists were asking her all sorts of questions. She knew how serious it was but obviously couldn't tell them anything.

Thankfully lessons have been learned in this country and we have never experienced a massacre on such a scale ever since.

Long may that continue and RIP to the 16 kids and 1 teacher.

Sounds horrible, one of my mum's friends works in the NHS, she attended Lockerbie when she was working at RIE and Dunblane when she worked in Stirling, that's a really distressing double header of two of the worst things to happen in Scotland, I really don't know how she managed it, people on the front line are remarkable

[Barney McGrew]

When I was growing up it was said that older folk could remember where they were when they heard about JFK’s assassination. I think Dunblane was my generation’s equivalent.

:agree:

I was in my car at the traffic lights waiting to turn from Princes Street up Lothian Road. I still remember news of it coming on the radio as I was sat there clear as day.

[McD]

I was 15, at school that day. Rumours filtered slowly through the day as people heard from friends and relatives when they went home on lunch or free periods, until finding out properly when we all went home. There was a different atmosphere that day, much more staff in the corridors with pretty much zero tolerance for being out of a classroom (understandably).

I went to a community high school, so it was common to see adults who weren’t part of the staff in and around the school, especially around the PE dept, where the squash court, gym and public sessions for the pool were regularly available to hire. There were 7 entrances to the school, and at least 3 broken fire exits that were regular points of access for a lot of students, and not a single one was manned or secured in any way.

soon after the tragedy happened, every door was secured throughout the day, with only the main reception door accessible during opening hours. Every door was fitted with the magnetised locking mechanisms, and a big reduction in not just non-staff adults in the school but also a reduction in the availability of the school resources to external people. You could see some of the teachers were hit pretty hard by it. It made us suddenly much more aware of adults in the school, and much more wary of faces we didn’t recognise.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's hard to believe it's 25 years since this happened. I can still clearly remember my parents trying to tell me about it and my teacher at the time trying to hold it together in school when talking to us about what had occurred.

There are many tragic events that I can look at, talk about and assess in an almost detached way but Dunblane gets me every time. Everything I read about it or watch about it makes me well up. The absolute senselessness of it is the worst part.

It's to the credit of the country as a whole that we acted quickly and decisively to minimise the chances of something like it ever happening again.

It's the only year I was down at Cheltenham for the festival, it was oddly quiet in the on course bars until the first race tapes went up, then normal business was resumed. I had £50ew on Imperial Call that seemed to impair my memories of the rest of the day. We stayed in Gloucester not far from The West's house, which just added to the weirdness of the week.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

When I was growing up it was said that older folk could remember where they were when they heard about JFK’s assassination. I think Dunblane was my generation’s equivalent.

I concur.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I was brought up in a small village in East Lothian and the number of people that owned shotguns and .22 handguns and rifles was unbelievable.

I only ever shot at tin cans but almost everybody I knew had used one at least once (even if it was just to try it out).

There was a shop called 'Field and Stream' at Abbeyhill where you could buy .22's quite freely.



(It used to be HERE (https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9572788,-3.1699916,3a,75y,324.6h,92.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOgBkh6tnFUy4pIk89Xhl0g!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656))

My old man bought all his fishing gear there when we stayed in Albert Street.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210313/942c57cf1734e59ed5784faf42cdc34f.jpg


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[Killiehibbie]

I was brought up in a small village in East Lothian and the number of people that owned shotguns and .22 handguns and rifles was unbelievable.

I only ever shot at tin cans but almost everybody I knew had used one at least once (even if it was just to try it out).

There was a shop called 'Field and Stream' at Abbeyhill where you could buy .22's quite freely.



(It used to be HERE (https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9572788,-3.1699916,3a,75y,324.6h,92.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOgBkh6tnFUy4pIk89Xhl0g!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656))

Guns And Ammo was just along the road.

I remember sitting in my van listening to the radio that day and thinking something like this doesn't happen in Scotland

[stu in nottingham]

Watched the programme last night with Lorraine Kelly going back to Dunblane. I found it almost unbearably sad and upsetting. God bless those children, their teacher and all the families whose feelings of loss will never leave them.

[Keith_M]

Watched the programme last night with Lorraine Kelly going back to Dunblane. I found it almost unbearably sad and upsetting. God bless those children, their teacher and all the families whose feelings of loss will never leave them.


I actually couldn't watch it.

[stu in nottingham]

I actually couldn't watch it.

I know what you mean. I got so far then couldn't handle any more of it. It's one of the hardest watches I've ever experienced, totally and utterly heartbreaking. Goodness knows how those families manage that kind of grief. You felt for them.

[Pretty Boy]

Watched the programme last night with Lorraine Kelly going back to Dunblane. I found it almost unbearably sad and upsetting. God bless those children, their teacher and all the families whose feelings of loss will never leave them.

I've not watched it yet but I will eventually. I watched a BBC documentary for the 20th anniversary and one of the children's sisters spoke openly about how what happened to her sister cast a huge shadow over her own life. The knowledge that her family would always be incomplete. She was at uni and read a poem she had written at an open mic night talking about her own mental struggles with what happened and her feelings of inadequacy and emptiness and trying to forge her own path not just as a 'victims sister'. It was interesting to see that side of it.

I understand why these documentaries are important as reminders and the final decision of course lies with the families but I wonder if 25 years is a good time to quietly leave these shows behind.

[Sylar]

We'd spent a week on holiday in Dunblane shortly before it happened. We weren't able to venture far on holiday because my mum had a chronic illness, so we had a week at the Dunblane Hydro. It was a lovely town and I've been back numerous times since.

I remember going home from school for lunch that day and as I came into the house, I can vividly recall my mum sitting watching it on the TV in tears. She then had to explain to me what was wrong.

Much like PB, I ended up befriending someone at Uni from Dunblane who was in the year above the poor kids who were targetted that morning - he was very open about his experience and thankfully was young enough that it didn't have a hugely scarring impact on him, but he knows plenty of people who experienced loss or trauma that day.

It's a real, genuine shame that Hamilton wasn't able to just point one of his guns at his own temple and end himself, without reaping such horrible carnage. The only positive (not sure that's the best phrasing) from that day were the robust laws that came into effect shortly thereafter that meant it's never happened since.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Watched the programme last night with Lorraine Kelly going back to Dunblane. I found it almost unbearably sad and upsetting. God bless those children, their teacher and all the families whose feelings of loss will never leave them.

I've got that TiVod, not really looking forward to it. Should be watched though.

[Santa Cruz]

I've not watched it yet but I will eventually. I watched a BBC documentary for the 20th anniversary and one of the children's sisters spoke openly about how what happened to her sister cast a huge shadow over her own life. The knowledge that her family would always be incomplete. She was at uni and read a poem she had written at an open mic night talking about her own mental struggles with what happened and her feelings of inadequacy and emptiness and trying to forge her own path not just as a 'victims sister'. It was interesting to see that side of it.

I understand why these documentaries are important as reminders and the final decision of course lies with the families but I wonder if 25 years is a good time to quietly leave these shows behind.

I watched it earlier. It was very sad. I felt there was also another purpose to the programme though. There was a young man who's sister died that day, he was younger than her and has no memory of her, his driving force and passion is promoting the dangers of handguns and along with other families they visit America to tell their story and support families who have suffered similar tragedies. There was also a Father of one of the victims who suffered terribly from PTSD following the tragedy to the point of planning to take his life, he sought help and told how open water swimming is therapeutic for him. All families will have found their own way to live with what happened, some no doubt ever overcame their loss. It was very humbling listening to their stories, I got the feeling it helped them to share it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It was completely out of the blue; one of those events that had never crossed your mind as possible, unlike terrorist attacks today, for example. The shock is difficult to convey now; the shock not just in Scotland but across the UK. School security was much more lax before it, and very different since. Before Dunblane, more or less anyone could get inside a school.

As a young kid I also remember the Hungerford massacre in August 1987, which was equally shocking, as it was first random spree killing in the UK. Gun laws were tightened after that tragedy, too, but didn't prevent Dunblane.

[JeMeSouviens]

There was a guy at my work at the time who lived in Dunblane and had a daughter at the primary school. Thankfully she wasn’t involved but I remember the panic when he took the call and left the office that day. Truly horrible.

[Ozyhibby]

I actually couldn't watch it.

I never watch programme like that. Can’t bear them.


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[Hibrandenburg]

When I was growing up it was said that older folk could remember where they were when they heard about JFK’s assassination. I think Dunblane was my generation’s equivalent.

After the Argentinien invasion of the Falkland Islands, it was the second breaking news that floored me. There have been a few since. Rest in peace little ones.

[AltheHibby]

I was on a course that day so I didn't hear until my wife picked me up. My son was 5 at the time and it took me years before I could explain why I walked in, said nothing, put my arms around him and started crying.

I can't begin to imagine the pain the families went through. My respect for them for the dignity they showed, and still show is enormous.

[Keith_M]

I was on a course that day so I didn't hear until my wife picked me up. My son was 5 at the time and it took me years before I could explain why I walked in, said nothing, put my arms around him and started crying.

I can't begin to imagine the pain the families went through. My respect for them for the dignity they showed, and still show is enormous.


My son was 4 at the time, and I felt very similar to you.

[overdrive]

It happened on my mum’s birthday when I was in P7. I remember coming in from school and a a lot of the wider family were there for my mum’s birthday and them telling me what had happened. I also remember being sh*t scared to go into school the next day.

[Skol]

I remember watching telly all night when I got home from work. What I didnt remember is that:

1) This happened on my 4th Wedding Anniversary
2) My first child was due in c 9 weeks time

[G B Young]

I remember being at work and folk steadily starting to gather round a TV screen, similar to 9/11.

The older I get, Dunblane's an event which becomes in some ways harder to believe could actually have happened in Scotland. I guess that's partly due to seeing my own kids growing up and being quite involved with their primary school down the years.

You only have to watch Andy and Jamie Murray trying to talk about it to understand how damaging an incident it was for all directly involved.

[gbhibby]

Happened on the day of my mum's funeral so date sticks in the memory. Had a work colleague who moved through from Edinburgh to work in Education in Stirling a few weeks before it happened. He had to go to a lot of the funerals. Took him a while to get over that experience.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Watched the programme last night with Lorraine Kelly going back to Dunblane. I found it almost unbearably sad and upsetting. God bless those children, their teacher and all the families whose feelings of loss will never leave them.

I just finished watching that just now, a few tears flowed.

[Alfiembra]

I was working in Grangemouth that day and worked with several people that lived in Dunblane. It really is for me one of those days that I will never forget, I remember all the phones going off all at once in the office and not understanding what was going on.
I then remember what seemed like lots of people running down Earls Road to the car park and cars screaming up the road towards the motorway. It was later in the morning before we started to hear what had happened.
At the time my two oldest sons were about 7 and 5 years old I remember getting home that evening and just hugging them and crying and them completely confused about what was wrong with me. I’m in tears now thinking about it typing this.
My last memory of it was it had started out as a fun day in the office it was a pals birthday and he had brought in cakes, his birthday from that day on has been overshadowed by the events of that horrible day.