Tactics and a plan B

[AugustaHibs]

Ross has clearly improved us since he came in and I definitely wouldn’t change him at the moment.

However, why can’t we win a game after going behind? It’s clearly a major issue.

Being 1-0 down and keeping gogic on, subbing hallberg (what does he do?) on and keeping allan on the bench clearly isn’t helping us.

Should we be doing better when things don’t instantly go our way?

[Jones28]

We did change tactics and personnel. We were unlucky not to take something from the game.

Gogic was very good today imo, did his “Gogic” duties and I felt the majority of his passes were forward, positives moves which is more than can be said for Newall.

[IberianHibernian]

I wouldn`t change the manager now in March either but that doesn`t mean we couldn`t get better . As for not being able to come back after losing a goal I think it`s mainly down to not having players with enough quality to make a difference against teams of a similar quality like St Johnstone today . Likewise we are hard to beat when ahead cause Hanlon , Porto etc are good enough to hold on if we get ahead . Hopefully we`ll finish 3rd this season and do something special in cup but looking ahead to next season we`d probably have to sign at least 6 players to step up to being sure of 3rd / 4th or challenging for top 2 plus good chance in cups . 6 new players who stay fit and have good attitude and are hungry for success . Ideally those 6 would be reduced by having some youth players forcing their way into first team squad .

[Unseen work]

For me we just don’t have attacking players with enough quality to produce something out of nothing, to come on and give us that wow factor.

Boyle has pace and is a good dribbler but can be marked out a game.

Nisbet started the season on fire but is really off form.

Allan when fit Absolutley.

But when you think of some of the previous players we have that when we’re losing can produce a bit of magic, skill or quality to get us out a sticky patch I think we’re missing that.

Maybe fans not being in stadiums is having an effect with that but I think we need that addressed in the summer.

[Man Down Under]

Just saw the highlights, it was all hibs except for the goal. Some nice play, unlucky not to score, just need more composure when pulling the trigger.

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[Stuart93]

Just saw the highlights, it was all hibs except for the goal. Some nice play, unlucky not to score, just need more composure when pulling the trigger.

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See i’d say we were unlucky today if there wasn’t already a theme over the entire season that if we fall behind we don’t come back

I’m still not sure what our tactics are, still not too sure what our style of play is either.

We don’t seem to have the mental strength to come from behind in games.

[delbert]

Ross has clearly improved us since he came in and I definitely wouldn’t change him at the moment.

However, why can’t we win a game after going behind? It’s clearly a major issue.

Being 1-0 down and keeping gogic on, subbing hallberg (what does he do?) on and keeping allan on the bench clearly isn’t helping us.

Should we be doing better when things don’t instantly go our way?

Each to their own I guess, but if losing twice to St Johnstone in just over a month, once fairly comprehensively on the big stage, and without managing to even score, if that is honestly signs of clear improvement, then you’re seeing something which totally escapes me.

[hibbysam]

Each to their own I guess, but if losing twice to St Johnstone in just over a month, once fairly comprehensively on the big stage, and without managing to even score, if that is honestly signs of clear improvement, then you’re seeing something which totally escapes me.

If you don’t think we’ve improved since Ross came in I’d probably book an appointment at specsavers and then look at the league table again.

[gorgie greens]

If you don’t think we’ve improved since Ross came in I’d probably book an appointment at specsavers and then look at the league table again.

Our league position has improved but the quality of football is dire , and anyone suggesting otherwise would need more than specsavers

[hibbysam]

Our league position has improved but the quality of football is dire , and anyone suggesting otherwise would need more than specsavers

Even the quality of football has improved from his predecessor. The point made was we haven’t improved, we’ve improved in results, in league position, in performance.

[gorgie greens]

Even the quality of football has improved from his predecessor. The point made was we haven’t improved, we’ve improved in results, in league position, in performance.

Agree with everything apart from the quality of football ,
We are awful to watch more often than not .

[ballengeich]

I think our main deficiency is that we don't get enough people up supporting the front one or two. The midfield don't get into the opposition penalty area and Cadden and Murphy tend to stay wide and not give much in the centre. The only midfielder who's scored a few goals is Mallan (away on loan) and his tended to be from distance. On Irvine's debut I thought he might be an answer to this but he seems now also to stay back.

We need an equivalent of Arfield, Christie or Murray Davidson.

[lucky]

The quality of football has improved that’s why we are third in the league. But the style of the football might not have but the reality football is all about winning and if we finish third this season will be deemed a success. Unfortunately outside the OF every side can beat each other on any day. At this moment in time Hibs or Aberdeen don’t look like the third or fourth best teams in Scotland but we are as the league table never lies.

[hibbysam]

Agree with everything apart from the quality of football ,
We are awful to watch more often than not .

We were far worse under Heckingbottom, there really isn’t a comparison for me.

[Tully]

How many hibs fans are saying the same thing week in week out, no plan b go behind we get beat, football is eye bleeding, start games so slow , yet nothing seems to change this must be down to the manager,Sunderland fans warned us he's to cautious with his approach and this has been proven time and time again, he has to approach games with a different approach but there is no evidence of this happening

[Hibbyradge]

Plan A was to get the ball quickly to Boyle for him to use his pace through the middle.

It wasn't working at all so we went to plan B, pushing Boyle back out wide and introducing Doige shortly after.

That changed the game and we totally dominated the second half without getting the goal our play deserved.

[Onion]

Plan A and Plan B both involve Boyle in scoring the goals. Our two strikers have both forgotten how to strike.

[Hibbyradge]

Plan A and Plan B both involve Boyle in scoring the goals. Our two strikers have both forgotten how to strike.

Granted they're barren at present, but Doige had a very good effort yesterday and the keeper did well to keep it out.

[Unseen work]

Granted they're barren at present, but Doige had a very good effort yesterday and the keeper did well to keep it out.

You reckon? It was an ok effort for Doidge but that’s a comfortable save for the keeper. Right down the middle of the goal with no real power.

Hopefully the big man gets 1 in the next game and goes on a run now until the season finishes as he badly needs it and so do we as a team.

5 league goals this season with 7 games left isn’t good enough.

If he goes on the sort of run he showed last season though he could end up with 12 goals which would then look a decent return 😅 here’s hoping!

[Weegreenman]

We did change tactics and personnel. We were unlucky not to take something from the game.

Gogic was very good today imo, did his “Gogic” duties and I felt the majority of his passes were forward, positives moves which is more than can be said for Newall.

We hardly created a chance. Everything we do has an element of luck involved, rather than being calculated.

We could still be playing now and still not scored.

JR’s tactics were poor, as was his choice of substitutions in my opinion.

[Smartie]

I often hear about a "lack of plan B" and think it's a load of nonsense.

It's the lack of plan A that's the problem. If you're a footballing side then you might want to make a tweak to the tactics or formation but you're still footballing side and what you need to do when you're in trouble is play football a bit better.

Should every side have a 6ft10 striker sitting on the bench to start lumping it long if the tidy football isn't working?

You could make an argument that plan B worked for us yesterday, as we threw on a big man who played quite well and as a team we looked a bit more like scoring than we did during the first half.

Not a lot, and not enough, but a bit better.

It was the garbage from the first whistle that I was most hacked off about.

[Tully]

This has been the problem for a long time slow out of the traps

[Hibbyradge]

You reckon? It was an ok effort for Doidge but that’s a comfortable save for the keeper. Right down the middle of the goal with no real power.

Hopefully the big man gets 1 in the next game and goes on a run now until the season finishes as he badly needs it and so do we as a team.

5 league goals this season with 7 games left isn’t good enough.

If he goes on the sort of run he showed last season though he could end up with 12 goals which would then look a decent return 😅 here’s hoping!

I just watched the highlights and you're right, Doidge's effort, while decent, was much easier to save than I thought at the time.

However, we had a total of half a dozen chances, (4 very good ones imo), and 5 of them came in the second half so the tactical changed worked which was the main point I was trying to make.

The fact that the players didn't take those chances can't be put down to the manager's lack of tactical nous.

[Unseen work]

I just watched the highlights and you're right, Doidge's effort, while decent, was much easier to save than I thought at the time.

However, we had a total of half a dozen chances, (4 very good ones imo), and 5 of them came in the second half so the tactical changed worked which was the main point I was trying to make.

The fact that the players didn't take those chances can't be put down to the manager's lack of tactical nous.

Yeah I agree with you that it’s not down to Ross, he can only do so much from the side.

You can put players on, tell them where to go etc but it comes down to the individual players and what decisions they make.

To me yesterday the players never looks brave enough on the ball, no swagger at all. The bravest ones on the ball willing to take the most chance was Porteous, Hanlon and Doig which is saying something

Newell needs to take the game to the opposition more, try take someone on to create that bit of space or work a 1-2. Something he and Doig done once that worked.

To me the players need to be braver and have a bit more confidence in themselves to create.

[jacomo]

We did change tactics and personnel. We were unlucky not to take something from the game.

Gogic was very good today imo, did his “Gogic” duties and I felt the majority of his passes were forward, positives moves which is more than can be said for Newall.


Gogic seems to be making the Gogic role his own.

[Mutu]

Yeah I agree with you that it’s not down to Ross, he can only do so much from the side.

You can put players on, tell them where to go etc but it comes down to the individual players and what decisions they make.

To me yesterday the players never looks brave enough on the ball, no swagger at all. The bravest ones on the ball willing to take the most chance was Porteous, Hanlon and Doig which is saying something

Newell needs to take the game to the opposition more, try take someone on to create that bit of space or work a 1-2. Something he and Doig done once that worked.

To me the players need to be braver and have a bit more confidence in themselves to create.

Tend to agree.

My issue with this Hibs team is how we transition from defence into the midfield. We are really bad at it. No consistent way to get the ball into the feet of midfielders with enough time to turn and look forward. Irvine, Murphy, Newell, Hallberg... all technical players who can play but we don't appear to have a strategy to get them on the ball. It's why our CB's hit long balls all the time, there's no other options. No midfielders recycling positions, nothing. How many times this season have we seen Hanlon on the ball moving up and the entire team running away from him. Just infuriating, and obviously coached.

All comes back to Ross and our identity on the pitch - I don't see one.

If fans could see tangible improvements in our play whilst being on the same amount of points I think we would find that Ross would have a lot more backing. But he doesn't because its the same turgid stuff week in week out, win or lose.

We're one of the worst teams to watch in the league.

[wookie70]

I just watched the highlights and you're right, Doidge's effort, while decent, was much easier to save than I thought at the time.

However, we had a total of half a dozen chances, (4 very good ones imo), and 5 of them came in the second half so the tactical changed worked which was the main point I was trying to make.

The fact that the players didn't take those chances can't be put down to the manager's lack of tactical nous.

I was happier with Ross yesterday because at least we got a reaction and some positive changes after a dire first half. We get something out that game if players finish better. Doig, Doidge, Hanlon and Newell all had chances that were at least equal to the one Craig scored with.

We just need to get a break in a game and I think we will have enough for third. When next season comes we will all forget about the quality of football this year and be delighted with the more than likely long run in Europe. The manager might find the pragmatic style is well suited to no-one in the stands. He will have a harder job next year when we will all hopefully be back at ER and away grounds.

[Jones28]

We hardly created a chance. Everything we do has an element of luck involved, rather than being calculated.

We could still be playing now and still not scored.

JR’s tactics were poor, as was his choice of substitutions in my opinion.

I disagree, we would have scored if the game had been 100 minutes long. We were battering the door down and that stramash in the box in the final few minutes was a lucky break from a goal that we would have deserved.

[Smartie]

I disagree, we would have scored if the game had been 100 minutes long. We were battering the door down and that stramash in the box in the final few minutes was a lucky break from a goal that we would have deserved.

We might have scored, but only because the law of averages would dictate that if you lump a ball into the box often enough and you scrap, eventually it might fall for you.

The second half on Saturday wasn't good. It just wasn't as bad as the first half.

Any notion that we were hammering on the door and it was only the full time whistle that stopped it caving in is nonsense.

[B.H.F.C]

We might have scored, but only because the law of averages would dictate that if you lump a ball into the box often enough and you scrap, eventually it might fall for you.

The second half on Saturday wasn't good. It just wasn't as bad as the first half.

Any notion that we were hammering on the door and it was only the full time whistle that stopped it caving in is nonsense.

Can’t really remember the goalie having a save of note to make.

St Johnstone were playing their third game in six days, including a cup final and all that goes with that, and simply sat in for the second half. We couldn’t figure out how to break them down which is a common theme when we’re behind.

[Jones28]

We might have scored, but only because the law of averages would dictate that if you lump a ball into the box often enough and you scrap, eventually it might fall for you.

The second half on Saturday wasn't good. It just wasn't as bad as the first half.

Any notion that we were hammering on the door and it was only the full time whistle that stopped it caving in is nonsense.

I'm curious as to why you think the first and second half were as bad as one another? The only measure they were similar on is goals, and we conceded once in the first half, so even still the second half was better.

I don't know where it's nonsense. Whether it's balls shelled in to the box or by any other means, we were still pressing back a team whos tactics were totally negated by the way we played in the second half.

[calumhibee1]

We might have scored, but only because the law of averages would dictate that if you lump a ball into the box often enough and you scrap, eventually it might fall for you.

The second half on Saturday wasn't good. It just wasn't as bad as the first half.

Any notion that we were hammering on the door and it was only the full time whistle that stopped it caving in is nonsense.

:agree:

The second half was an improvement on the first, no doubt about it.

It went from extremely crap to just not very good. Just because the first half was really bad it doesn’t mean that being a bit better second half is good enough.

Their keeper never had to save anything other than one comfortable save from Doidge. We had 75 mins to conjure up a goal and never looked like getting one.

[Jones28]

:agree:

The second half was an improvement on the first, no doubt about it.

It went from extremely crap to just not very good. Just because the first half was really bad it doesn’t mean that being a bit better second half is good enough.

Their keeper never had to make anything other than one comfortable save. We had 75 mins to conjure up a goal and never looked like getting one.

Dinny you start :greengrin

[calumhibee1]

Dinny you start :greengrin

:greengrin

[hibbysam]

Can’t really remember the goalie having a save of note to make.

St Johnstone were playing their third game in six days, including a cup final and all that goes with that, and simply sat in for the second half. We couldn’t figure out how to break them down which is a common theme when we’re behind.

It’s been our biggest issue for years. How hard did we make it for ourselves in the championship when teams sat in against us if we never scored early, and it’s carried on that way since. We are fine when the game is open and expansive, or when it’s us that takes the lead, but we always seem to struggle against 2 banks of defenders and I think it’s mostly down to the intelligence of our front men and wingers - not understanding how to manipulate space.

[Stuart93]

I'm curious as to why you think the first and second half were as bad as one another? The only measure they were similar on is goals, and we conceded once in the first half, so even still the second half was better.

I don't know where it's nonsense. Whether it's balls shelled in to the box or by any other means, we were still pressing back a team whos tactics were totally negated by the way we played in the second half.

I reckon it was St Johnstone’s tactics in the 2nd half to sit back and soak up the pressure to be honest. The statistics from the rest of the season told them that once they scored and sat back we wouldn’t come back.

[Jones28]

I reckon it was St Johnstone’s tactics in the 2nd half to sit back and soak up the pressure to be honest. The statistics from the rest of the season told them that once they scored and sat back we wouldn’t come back.

It might be some of that Stuart, but they literally did nothing. In the semi final they were actively pressing forward when they could and indeed scored on the break.

The stats dont lie though, and it is a worrying trend that we concede and crumble.

[Hibernian Verse]

It’s been our biggest issue for years. How hard did we make it for ourselves in the championship when teams sat in against us if we never scored early, and it’s carried on that way since. We are fine when the game is open and expansive, or when it’s us that takes the lead, but we always seem to struggle against 2 banks of defenders and I think it’s mostly down to the intelligence of our front men and wingers - not understanding how to manipulate space.

I think you've nailed it there. However, I would caveat it and suggest that player intelligence costs a fortune and only two clubs in Scotland have the money to buy the flair & intelligence needed to week after week consistently break down defences.

RG has showed he is willing to back the manager, just have to hope that continues and that we improve along with it.

[Smartie]

I'm curious as to why you think the first and second half were as bad as one another? The only measure they were similar on is goals, and we conceded once in the first half, so even still the second half was better.

I don't know where it's nonsense. Whether it's balls shelled in to the box or by any other means, we were still pressing back a team whos tactics were totally negated by the way we played in the second half.

I didn’t think the halves were as bad as one another - the second was undeniably better but it still wasn’t anywhere near “good”.

Where I thought it was nonsense was that there was a disagreement between a couple of posters regarding whether we’d have scored if we played for another 100 minutes. I’d grudgingly say maybe because eventually something might go for you through good fortune, but there was absolutely nothing from us that I saw that looked all that positive and that we were going to break them down through our own positive endeavours.

It’s also a bit of a pointless, hypothetical argument. The bottom line is we lost the first goal, as we sometimes do, and didn’t look like getting anything from the game, which is always the case when we lose the first goal.

We came into it more because they were happy to sit back, and we chose not to use the type of player who can unpick defences in situations like that.

[hibbysam]

I think you've nailed it there. However, I would caveat it and suggest that player intelligence costs a fortune and only two clubs in Scotland have the money to buy the flair & intelligence needed to week after week consistently break down defences.

RG has showed he is willing to back the manager, just have to hope that continues and that we improve along with it.

I agree with that, hence why there’s only two clubs that can break sides down on a regular basis and have a magnitude of options when plan A/B/C isn’t working. Not sure if it’s something we’d look at when we’re back to normal but I’d like us to have coaches for specific areas of the team. Currently we have Samson for the keepers and Ross/Potter for the rest, although both of them are defensive minded. Only a striker can teach a young striker the finer details of their craft IMO - someone can tell me I’m wrong if we already have a striker/forward thinking coach.