When did it change?

[blackpoolhibs]

When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?

[Magpie]

The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

[blackpoolhibs]

I would add that managers were not afforded the same respect, they were often spoken about disparagingly. :greengrin

[Pagan Hibernia]

The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

That’s it.

[jeffers]

I don’t remember it happening when I was a boy either, but certainly by the 80s it was happening. Up at Tannadice one day and Joe Tortolano’s name was read out to a chorus of boos from a sizeable number of the Hibs support (he’d had a shocker in midweek after coming on as a sub at Ibrox when we were 1-0 up.)

And without getting all misty eyed about how great things were when I was a boy, society in general isn’t as pleasant now as it was then.

I agree that social media hasn’t helped in that respect where everyone has a voice. I would temper that slightly though by saying on here I might post and criticise Doidge for example, at an actual game though I keep my frustrations to myself and don’t abuse players.

[superfurryhibby]

The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

As a youngster I remember Benny Brazil getting dogs abuse at a level Hibs fans would never accept now. Prior to that Tony Higgins, Ally McLeod and Ally Scott all took their share of vitriol ( McLeod was talented, but he was hardly a chaser of lost causes).

The social media just gives us more of a window into the thoughts of others, I feel that players of yesteryear got it tight several notches above today’s players, particularly inside the ground.

[hibsbollah]

It’s definitely social media. And also probably also down to the rise of football manager and fifa/pes to a lesser extent, which has made everyone think building a winning team of players is easy to do :greengrin

[Hiber-nation]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

[CentreLine]

I think there were a combination of things. Post Tornadoes we came out of generations of seeing good, entertaining and successful football, where fans generally appreciated the talent (not necessarily loved) on both sides. Football was an entertainment.
To be honest, we then entered a period where football generally had become a tactical kicking game. Not necessarily kicking the ball. It was crap by comparison
Added to that the introduction of segregation created a much more tribal attitude where we wanted our players to personify those passions on the park and the opposition became “the enemy”. If we saw weakness in our own side then that player wasn’t delivering the required tribal fight and so wasn’t good enough.
Add social media in to the mix and we have the perfect storm. The entertainment people “enjoy” from football is no longer on the park, it goes way beyond that and for some that included the need for constant criticism on all platforms plus a hatred of anyone associated with the opposition.

[lapsedhibee]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

:agree: Neil Martin, banging in goals for us left right and centre at the time, missing one relatively easy chance in a game would produce howls of outrage, "useless *******", etc. Could never understand that.

[jacomo]

The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?


Massively. I think we will look back on this era and be amazed that such a large social experiment happened with so little constraint.

However, I’ve been attending football for 30+ years (so pre mass internet) and fans have always hurled abuse at players.

One thing that has changed - it used to be considered acceptable to shout anything you liked at opposition players if it put them off their game.

[neil7908]

It's definitely worse now but let's not kid ourselves that players weren't given dogs abuse in the past.

Social media and not being at games has just meant the criticism is now more intense and stretched out. Before folk would go to the game, vent if it was a bad performance or at their least favourite player, have a moan on the way home or in the pub and be done with it.

Now it's 24/7 and no one has going to an actual match as an outlet for the joys or anger football gives us.

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree: Neil Martin, banging in goals for us left right and centre at the time, missing one relatively easy chance in a game would produce howls of outrage, "useless *******", etc. Could never understand that.

I dont remember that, not saying it never happened, but i cant remember howls of outrage then.

[Carheenlea]

I think fans have always been critical of certain players and I can’t remember a time when there wasn’t one player in particular who was the popular target of choice.
There was little in the way of the bile and aggressiveness of the criticism we see now though, and terms like “wage thief” are a modern addition. Social media surrounding football encourages people to stand out, and extremities in ultra positivism and negativity assist with that. I often feel that many don’t genuinely believe the stances they take and it’s a case of being on one side of an argument or another as if mild support or criticism of players isn’t permitted.

[Just Alf]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.Yup, agreed... mind you, we'd also defend them 1 million percent at school!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

As a youngster I remember Benny Brazil getting dogs abuse at a level Hibs fans would never accept now. Prior to that Tony Higgins, Ally McLeod and Ally Scott all took their share of vitriol ( McLeod was talented, but he was hardly a chaser of lost causes).

Even the likes of Arthur Duncan & Erich Schaedler got abuse from the terracing toward the end of their careers and some of it was person-to-person given there would often only be around 4k rattling around inside Easter Road.

I remember being on the terracing for one such match and play was stopped for an injury or something. Arthur wasn't far from the East terracing touchline and a guy not far from me shouted "Duncan!..." - Arthur automatically looked up and the guy continued "F*** off!" I remember as a 14/15 year old feeling sorry for Arthur as he actually winced. There are other very similar examples I remember with the likes of Erich, Ralph C & Ally McLeod - all good players and great servants to the club..


The social media just gives us more of a window into the thoughts of others, I feel that players of yesteryear got it tight several notches above today’s players, particularly inside the ground.

Social media can be pretty brutal though, with bams getting a platform and things becoming polarised very quickly.

[Hillsidehibby]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

Absolutely about Pat Stanton. Even the great man himself was being called a lazy barsteward.
No one is or ever has been immune!

[Wakeyhibee]

Think it's always happened, it's just amplified by social media. I remember as a kid in the 70s there was plenty of outraged supporters.

I was too young for the pub then but maybe Saturday was Saturday, after the pub it was back to work and home life.

Its 24/7 with social media if you want it to be. You also tended to chat within your group when I did go to the pub. There 1000s on these platforms.

[CropleyWasGod]

Absolutely about Pat Stanton. Even the great man himself was being called a lazy barsteward.
No one is or ever has been immune!

Yeah, I definitely remember that, particularly towards the end of his time here.

Cormack was another who came in for a lot of stick.

The abuse hasn't changed IMO, we're just more aware of it 24/7.

[Bradford]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

As I approach 70 my memory is not all it one was but I have a recollection re Jim Blair. It was not long after he came from St Mirren and he was a substitute for an away game against Airdrie at their wonderful old Broomfield ground. He came on in the second half when we were winning comfortably. The ball was passed to him which he completely mis-controlled and sent it to one of their players. Someone on the terracing behind us shouted "Blair you'r sh@ite"
and everyone laughed. Nobody realised how prophetic that comment would turn out to be.

[BILLYHIBS]

Ally Scott :rolleyes:

[H18S NX]

I remember getting a scud on the heid from ma auld man for shouting "you're and auld horse" at Willie Toner once,I was right he didnae play that much after that,still got kept in till school.

[Lago]

When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?
I to am of that era & agree with you, social media I'm afraid allowed anonymous keyboard warriors freedom to vilify players at will. In the old days it would be a moan over a beer in the pub with your mates & then forgotten about as you looked forward to the next game. Happy days.

[Clarence]

I think we probably have young players more of a chance before the golden generation. We expect every player that comes through to be a deek, goc, broonie or KT and when they don’t live up to that in their first few games they get pelters. In the nineties, I think folk were more supportive of ordinary players like Chris Jackson and Graeme Love.

[JimBHibees]

Used to go to the enclosure at the famous five end and there were certainly occasions when the abuse was ridiculous usually from individual fans and would usually end up with other fans giving the abuser some back. Can remember on one occasion Gordon Rae charging over and wanting to sort someone out after a game.

[JimBHibees]

Ally Scott :rolleyes:

Appalling player :greengrin

[The Modfather]

When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?

I’m not sure it’s all that different, certainly at games in person.

Social media and the internet can be a bit of an echo chamber and amplify the worst aspects. However I’m not sure it’s reflective of the real world and a lot of what is said is either trolling or posting to an online persona they’ve created. I suspect the majority of what is said and how it’s said online wouldn’t be replicated by the same people in the real world. Folk seem to have to have an opinion on everything these days and feel obligated to air that opinion, which then leads to a circular arguments where the actual point being debated long since becomes irrelevant and it becomes a battle of oneupmanship rather than any meaningful debate.

[blackpoolhibs]

Appalling player :greengrin

I think most people who had the misfortune to witness his play, would have exactly that opinion. :greengrin

I remember folk shacking their head whenever he tried something that would never come off, and the receding long hair never really took off either. :greengrin

I accept there would be the odd shout, but it was nothing like todays bile, from people who couldn't do their job to anywhere near their bad ability too. :greengrin

And before anyone has a pop at that, i'm as guilty as anyone for writing on here how such a player is pish.

[Dalianwanda]

Theres the culture of instant gratification, people wanting the best right now & not prepared to wait for it. As already mentioned football manager, fifa as well as the fact that more parent are coaching kids these days. Nothing wrong with having an opinion but so many see themselves as experts when they only know half the story. Social media and how easy it is to have your voice heard and to either ignore or react if someone has a different viewpoint (when before we were only able to do this through real life chats). The black or white, left or right, amazing or *****, right or wrong mindset so many have fuelled by the media and used by activists & politicians & anyone else who wants to you join their gang.

I dont think it has changed that much at games. There used to be plenty of abuse at games in 70's/80's but anyone out of order would be shouted down. Perhaps its changed a wee bit depending on whos shouting and how coked up they look ;-)

[Keith_M]

I remember being at a game at ER in the early 80s and standing (as per usual) on the main terracing, just below the TV gantry.

The players were warming up before the game and we were chanting the players' names in turn singing 'give us a wave'

It went...



"Ally, Ally, give us a wave" --- Ally Mcleod waves --- crowd cheers

"Gordon, Gordon, give us a wave " --- Gordon Rae waves --- crowd cheers.

etc,


Then one young guy starts a chant "Benny, Benny, give us a wave" (Benny Brazil)

The rest of the crowd just turn round and look at him in disgust... after which he slinks away to the Pie Stand

:greengrin

[loanheadhibby]

It’s always happened. Social media just highlights it more.

I remember when I was young, Ralph Callaghan having a rammy with a fan during a game at Easter Road. I think Ralph flicked him the Vickies.

Who’ll ever forget Michael O’Neil arguing with a fan away to Raith in a relegation battle and Keith Wright getting booed in same game.

[Pretty Boy]

I think the likes of Joe Tortolano, Brian Hamilton or even Stuart Lovell would argue that vitriolic criticism of players didn't start with social media.

[Ray_]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

I agree, it was poisonous, Mervyn Jones was another, as was Colin Grant. It seemed to me in the day that some only went to have a good moan and they would start as the players entered the field. Obviously many hen pecked individuals and that was their way of believing they had some control, from players who wouldn't [usually] answer back.

I blame Joe Davis for a lot of it, when he got on a bit [in football terms] while Hibs were trying to replace him as left back, Mervyn, Billy/Willie & even Shades in the early days, all took dogs abuse. Jim Blair lasted a season and returned to ST Mirren for less than half we paid for him, his ungainly style and the fact he replaced Peter Cormack [who also took some stick!!] for a sizeable fee [45k] always meant he was going to be a target for the morons.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hecky time on here was worst I've ever seen it. At times under Ross it has been similar which is mental. Expectations are silly high and patience is silly low. A bad combination.

[CMurdoch]

The 3 big things that have changed the nature of abuse of players are:
1. The internet and social media
2. All seater stadiums
3. Equality legislation

Re 1. Abuse online is off the scale now but if the players have any sense they can easily avoid it.
Re 2 and 3 These have both reduced high level abuse.
Cowards can no longer abuse player anonymously in all seater stadiums and even the thickest folk understand that racist and homophobic abuse will get them in a world of trouble.

[The dalmeny]

The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

hiding on the internet behind pretendy names

[ian cruise]

Players always got abuse but it was limited to the terraces or chat between friends in the pub. By the time people got home they'd vented or had a semi-constructive face to face debate and got it out their system.

Now with the Internet people can immediate vent frustrations to a world wide audience, this acts as an echo chamber where many equally frustrated folk will join in and the discontent grows making small annoyances seem like world ending issues. Additionally you have people willing to debate the other side and what was a 5 min chat over a pint before another topic came up is a three day debate with neither side willing to back down, often going to extremes in their point of view like a mule digging in heels. This is worsened by the fact it's recorded for prosperity with people all too willing to drag an argument back to life when they get the opportunity.

This isn't solely a football forum problem, you can see it on almost any topic online, regardless how innocent it might initially seem. Then you have the issue of online trolls who get their kicks out of upsetting others.

It has always existed but it's amplified massively these days.

[basehibby]

I remember being at a game at ER in the early 80s and standing (as per usual) on the main terracing, just below the TV gantry.

The players were warming up before the game and we were chanting the players' names in turn singing 'give us a wave'

It went...



"Ally, Ally, give us a wave" --- Ally Mcleod waves --- crowd cheers

"Gordon, Gordon, give us a wave " --- Gordon Rae waves --- crowd cheers.

etc,


Then one young guy starts a chant "Benny, Benny, give us a wave" (Benny Brazil)

The rest of the crowd just turn round and look at him in disgust... after which he slinks away to the Pie Stand

:greengrin

I remember some game in the 70s when Aly McLeod missed a sitter and some wag shouted out "MCLEOD - Dulux has got a better finish than you.

I suppose you could say that he damned him with a Paint Phrase :offski:

[DIXIHIBS]

Certain players have always had a bit stick from fans but since social media came in its off the scale. A player can have a dozen good games...all is well, 1 bad game and hes the worst ever. As my auld dad to say its either all sugar or all sh@te. No middle ground anymore.

[Brizo]

If you read Eddie Turnbull and Lawrie Reillys books they said that they were the target for the boo-boys on occasion and they were two of the Famous 5!

I remember Jim Black getting pelters and he was part of the best Hibs team of my lifetime.

I remember the likes of Ally Brazil, Hammy and Joe T getting boo'd before ko when the teams were announced over the tannoy.

I don't see any players of the social media era getting the same levels of abuse from the terraces that the likes of Benny Brazil or Hammy used to get. I think a lot of it has moved from the stands to the internet.

All that's really changed is folk can vent their anger over social media 24/7 instead of just during the match and with their immediate pals.

[Brightside]

When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?


100% social media and the culture of blame. People are brought up to just complain about everything now. The faceless social media just amplifies it. Plenty players got slagged off when i was a kid - but it was just in the park or in the pubs. The constant need to analyse everything has made it worse. You just need to look at the stuff on here discussing our form. None of it really matters. The position in the table matters, yet you will have someone spending time to show that we only win against the poorer teams,, yet here we are in 3rd place and still plenty people are not happy. Negativity of any sort really isn't good for the brain. It would be great if the next generation worked on removing as much of it as possible.

[Hibbyradge]

When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?

It's worse now because we expose ourselves to it daily on here and social media, but it's been around for ever.

Off the top of my head, Joe Harper, Roy Barry, Benny Brazil all got it tight from the terraces. No doubt I would remember more if I thought about it.

[JohnMcM]

hiding on the internet behind pretendy names

Said “The dalmeny” :na na:

[Yorkshire HFC]

I'm not sure it's ever been any different - people in groups have always had a tendency to be nasty.

It's easy to blame the internet, and you see it on this website every day - people calling out players and managers as being useless. Ironic considering that the people being critisised are elite athletes, but I'm sure the same comments would have been made by the same type of people if the internet had been around 100 years ago. It's all done anonymously behind a keyboard, and there are no repercussions.

I don't think Ally Brazil would think critisism of footballers is something new.

[Lancs Harp]

Just to add to what has already been said which lies most of the blame at the door of social media. I think you also have to take in consideration age and perception. When we were young the world is basically a positive place, everything exciting full of hope and innocence. Fast forward a few decades and those innocent edges have long ago been chipped away, the world is perceived as a much more negative and darker place once you have lived in it for several decades, football message boards like our are invariably inhabited by cynical middle aged and above men who are far more comfortable complaining and generally having a negative view about virtually anything than they are about being positive. Other platforms of course are frequented by younger generations who have been brought up to "express" themselves in anyway they want with no consideration for possible consequences. In the world of social media opinion has long since masqueraded as fact.

:greengrin

[Yorkshire HFC]

Just to add to what has already been said which lies most of the blame at the door of social media. I think you also have to take in consideration age and perception. When we were young the world is basically a positive place, everything exciting full of hope and innocence. Fast forward a few decades and those innocent edges have long ago been chipped away, the world is perceived as a much more negative and darker place once you have lived in it for several decades, football message boards like our are invariably inhabited by cynical middle aged and above men who are far more comfortable complaining and generally having a negative view about virtually anything than they are about being positive. Other platforms of course are frequented by younger generations who have been brought up to "express" themselves in anyway they want with no consideration for possible consequences. In the world of social media opinion has long since masqueraded as fact.

:greengrin

I made the mistake of looking at a thread on here about David Tanner. I've no idea who he is, but some of the comments made by people are horrendous.

As you say, this website may be largely frequented by cynical middle aged men - either that or 10 year old children.

I thought today was all about looking out for other peoples mental health? I don't think football fans have quite grasped what this means.

[ancient hibee]

Just to add to what has already been said which lies most of the blame at the door of social media. I think you also have to take in consideration age and perception. When we were young the world is basically a positive place, everything exciting full of hope and innocence. Fast forward a few decades and those innocent edges have long ago been chipped away, the world is perceived as a much more negative and darker place once you have lived in it for several decades, football message boards like our are invariably inhabited by cynical middle aged and above men who are far more comfortable complaining and generally having a negative view about virtually anything than they are about being positive. Other platforms of course are frequented by younger generations who have been brought up to "express" themselves in anyway they want with no consideration for possible consequences. In the world of social media opinion has long since masqueraded as fact.

:greengrin

You've destroyed my illusions-I've always thought most of the posters on here were schoolkids:greengrin

When I started going you only heard barracking if you were standing close enough to the barracker.The general crowd noise tended to drown out any concerted stuff-which there wasn't a lot of. John Fraser used to suffer being booed before getting on the park as his name would be read out as a change to the programme usually replacing Smith or Reilly. Turnbull was booed readily but it didn't worry him because it confirmed to him that the average supporter knew nothing about football. Joe Baker used to get abuse because he wasn't Lawrie Reilly but just a wee laddy.Peter Cormack got booed because he ran funny. The only time I saw trouble erupting was when Gordon Smith was scoring one of the 5 that Hearts scored that day at Easter Road. Some numptie went running down an aisle shouting he was a Hibs reject so a fellow Hibs supporter lamped him to everyone's approval.

[Killiehibbie]

Brazil, Tortolano, Sneddon and Higgins I remember getting quite a bit of abuse. Nobody was immune and just about every player was ripped to bits at some time. I think some guys only went to shout and bawl about how ***** the players were.

[greenlex]

I dont remember that, not saying it never happened, but i cant remember howls of outrage then.
I think it’s always been there but now it’s every hour of every day on social media. Makes it seem much worse so by default it probably is.

[Phil MaGlass]

Probably started when ah first came oan here :wink:

[The dalmeny]

Said “The dalmeny” :na na:

i rest my case :faf:

[Keith_M]

I remember some game in the 70s when Aly McLeod missed a sitter and some wag shouted out "MCLEOD - Dulux has got a better finish than you.

I suppose you could say that he damned him with a Paint Phrase :offski:


:greengrin

[Crunchie]

As a youngster I remember Benny Brazil getting dogs abuse at a level Hibs fans would never accept now. Prior to that Tony Higgins, Ally McLeod and Ally Scott all took their share of vitriol ( McLeod was talented, but he was hardly a chaser of lost causes).

The social media just gives us more of a window into the thoughts of others, I feel that players of yesteryear got it tight several notches above today’s players, particularly inside the ground.
I remember the abuse dished out to Benny and did my fair share of sticking up for him, can't say I ever remember any abuse towards our very own super Ally though.

[Crunchie]

I think the likes of Joe Tortolano, Brian Hamilton or even Stuart Lovell would argue that vitriolic criticism of players didn't start with social media.
As someone else has said, there's always been abuse but it ended after the match. Nowadays the abuse can go on for weeks / months on end courtesy of social media.

[Smartie]

The 3 big things that have changed the nature of abuse of players are:
1. The internet and social media
2. All seater stadiums
3. Equality legislation

Re 1. Abuse online is off the scale now but if the players have any sense they can easily avoid it.
Re 2 and 3 These have both reduced high level abuse.
Cowards can no longer abuse player anonymously in all seater stadiums and even the thickest folk understand that racist and homophobic abuse will get them in a world of trouble.

I agree with every bit of this.

Some really vicious stuff was being doled out when I started going regularly in the early 90s. I don't know if anyone who was at the Edinburgh derby Justin Fashanu played in could ever make any sort of a case that abuse is worse these days.

I see some of the things folk pay to go on courses to work on "improving their resilience" so their performance in a relatively cushy job can improve a wee bit. If only they could pay to be Joe Tortolano playing at left-back up the hill at Easter Road in front of the old terracing when he wasn't on the top of his game but having to try to muster a performance from somewhere, they'd soon realise how cushy their own environment actually is.

The worst of social media is really bad and it's often tempting to extrapolate that across the whole of society but it really isn't that way at all.

And I've often thought the anxious home support at Easter Road puts the team off - interesting that this year with no fans our home record is just about as bad as it has been relative to the ability within the squad.

The abuse can suck you in a bit as well. Take Drey Wright for example - I thought he'd had a quietish start for us but competent enough. I'd come on here and read all sorts about how bad he was. Drey might not have set the heather alight for us so far but most of his performances have been of the tepid variety rather than the absolutely horrific (in my opinion) yet the collective wisdom seems to have dragged me in and I find myself thinking "he's crap" automatically rather than going on an individual assessment of his performances which is more "a bit quiet, probably needs to do more but not amazing or crap."

[BILLYHIBS]

Been mentioned before but I remember being at a game in the 1970-80s that was so bad that when the ball was kicked into the terrace a HIBS fan grabbed the ball sprinted up to the top of Shaw Heights and booted the ball into the Car Park miles below to everyone’s approval

Pretty sure Tom Hart gave him Complimentaries for the next home match

[pollution]

I made the mistake of looking at a thread on here about David Tanner. I've no idea who he is, but some of the comments made by people are horrendous.

As you say, this website may be largely frequented by cynical middle aged men - either that or 10 year old children.

I thought today was all about looking out for other peoples mental health? I don't think football fans have quite grasped what this means.


Talking of which: it would be ideal if posters were obliged to give their age or age bracket.

Sometimes it is impossible to differentiate between adult stupidity or juvenile inexperience.

[Pretty Boy]

As someone else has said, there's always been abuse but it ended after the match. Nowadays the abuse can go on for weeks / months on end courtesy of social media.

Again I think someone like Joe Tortolano would argue against that. I can remember him being booed before games in my formative years as a Hibs fan. It may have been forgotten about in the week between games but it was quickly resurrected on a Saturday.

Fwiw I think social media plays a part in the sense that criticism or arguments are there forever. It's been highlighted on here recently that people dredge up threads from weeks or months before with no context to prove a point. No one would behave like that in a pub and someone being such a smart arse to the wrong person could well end up with a sore face. However social media is largely an extension of real life, criticism and aggression exists there because it exists in the real world.

I think the 'no one criticised the players in my day' chat is the same rose tinted glasses that has people believing it was always sunny in the summer in the 70s. Memories are selective, people tend to remember the good and compartmentalise the bad somewhere at the back of their mind.

[wookie70]

I started going to ER regularly in the late 70s and there was usually a scapegoat and player who took loads of criticism. Benny Brazil, Joe T, Brian Hamilton would be the ones I remember getting stick from the first decade I watched. There were others like Tony Higgins who got particular comments like he jumps to a height slightly less than his standing height. Even players who were loved like Ally McLeod had comments about their weight etc. I'd say Doidge was a great finisher if I was talking to a Jambo these days and point out he is playing in a better and bigger league than their huddies. Might have a different view on here.

[Hiber-nation]

I remember these 2 clowns in the old North Stand starting up a "Brazil must go" chant. The abuse they got from fellow fans was far worse than what they gave Benny and they were never seen again.

[BILLYHIBS]

I remember these 2 clowns in the old North Stand starting up a "Brazil must go" chant. The abuse they got from fellow fans was far worse than what they gave Benny and they were never seen again.
Benny shut a few of them up with his hat-trick against Celtic :greengrin

[wookie70]

Benny shut a few of them up with his hat-trick against Celtic :greengrin

I remember his very predictable penalty miss against them in the cup shoot out, I think Rae missed too. No harm done fortunately and I think O'Leary's pen is still in orbit

[Iggy Pope]

I would add that managers were not afforded the same respect, they were often spoken about disparagingly. :greengrin

And owners. Much as Tom Hart is revered these days every bad defeat (maybe to a lower league side) resulted in “Hart Must Go” from the terraces and a mob round the back of the stand. Kenny Waugh got it tough too.

[calumhibee1]

Talking of which: it would be ideal if posters were obliged to give their age or age bracket.

Sometimes it is impossible to differentiate between adult stupidity or juvenile inexperience.

Peoples ages certainly used to be on here on the desktop version.

I haven’t been on here on a computer in years so no idea if it’s still there.

[Iggy Pope]

Talking of which: it would be ideal if posters were obliged to give their age or age bracket.

Sometimes it is impossible to differentiate between adult stupidity or juvenile inexperience.

Infirmity and senility must come into it as well. Certainly does in my case, I’m off my nut.
I just seen a photo of Jack Harkness’ timeless report on Hibs 8-1 win v the Huns in the 1940s. I vividly remember reading Jack Harkness in the Sunday Post myself, 30 years after that event but still over 40 years ago. Age young or old doesn’t come on it’s own.

[Ray_]

And owners. Much as Tom Hart is revered these days every bad defeat (maybe to a lower league side) resulted in “Hart Must Go” from the terraces and a mob round the back of the stand. Kenny Waugh got it tough too.

So did Bill Harrower before them, mind you, he sold Stein, Marinello & Cormack between October 68 to April 1970.

[Eyrie]

Peoples ages certainly used to be on here on the desktop version.

I haven’t been on here on a computer in years so no idea if it’s still there.

It's there for some posters, but not others.

Think you can leave your date of birth blank so that it doesn't show.

[Iggy Pope]

So did Bill Harrower before them, mind you, he sold Stein, Marinello & Cormack between October 68 to April 1970.

Quite a rate of alienation that was Ray. Most of us older types had to live with the loss of one boyhood hero ((although Cropley then later Stanton were particularly heart wrenching for me amidst the destruction of a side of heroes) but cashing in on three young figures like that in 18 months must have taken some juggling. Cant imagine what Hibs.net or even Sky TV would have sucked out of that.

Mind you in this age (?) , Farmer sold on that entire golden generation in a fairly short spell didn’t he? Murray, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Riordan, O’Connor, Fletcher, Murphy, Sproule, Imagine being 12 in 2006 and facing that with Hearts winning the cup? And we might have been getting better crowds at the time than Harrower and eventually Hart did (don’t quote me on that though). But we did get East Mains and a finished stadium in return. Harrower, Hart, Waugh and their successors left us with nowt , zero legacy, less indeed than we started with, maybe too much less. And Hart is revered now on the basis of maybe three brilliant years followed by two or three decades of decline.

[Bishop Hibee]

I actually think the abuse at the match was worse in the 70’s and 80’s. Anything went back then. The difference was that come Sunday you started to forget about the result and look forward to the next match. There wasn’t the endless analysing and debating the minutiae of every game and individual performance like there is now.

[Iggy Pope]

I actually think the abuse at the match was worse in the 70’s and 80’s. Anything went back then. The difference was that come Sunday you started to forget about the result and look forward to the next match. There wasn’t the endless analysing and debating the minutiae of every game and individual performance like there is now.

Racial abuse, casual or vociferous, was widely accepted as the norm and seldom challenged. And if I’m honest, sectarian abuse was worse too.
A battle outside the away end was a given once the opportunity arose to get the **** off the chest.

Music was better though.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I would add that managers were not afforded the same respect, they were often spoken about disparagingly. :greengrin

but everyone seems to address them as Mr surely that’s enough ?

one of my pet hates - who calls even their boss Mr or Mrs? In my 20+ years in a number of industries, with the UK I’ve never come across it.

[FilipinoHibs]

Having watched Hibs for 50 years at ER and stood in all parts of the ground, I think the abuse of the players and team has become worse over time. That has accelerated over and I think it partly feeds off social media. I can remember only Ally Brazil getting pelters and more down to his limitations rather than would he actually did on the park. I remember a gang beating up on Rob Jones and willing him to making a mistake before he established himself. In the last 10 years have seen widespread ganging up on players because of concerted attacks on social media

[Ray_]

Quite a rate of alienation that was Ray. Most of us older types had to live with the loss of one boyhood hero ((although Cropley then later Stanton were particularly heart wrenching for me amidst the destruction of a side of heroes) but cashing in on three young figures like that in 18 months must have taken some juggling. Cant imagine what Hibs.net or even Sky TV would have sucked out of that.

Mind you in this age (?) , Farmer sold on that entire golden generation in a fairly short spell didn’t he? Murray, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Riordan, O’Connor, Fletcher, Murphy, Sproule, Imagine being 12 in 2006 and facing that with Hearts winning the cup? And we might have been getting better crowds at the time than Harrower and eventually Hart did (don’t quote me on that though). But we did get East Mains and a finished stadium in return. Harrower, Hart, Waugh and their successors left us with nowt , zero legacy, less indeed than we started with, maybe too much less. And Hart is revered now on the basis of maybe three brilliant years followed by two or three decades of decline.

Yes, although Tom Farmer was in overall charge, his blind alliance to Rod Petrie, particularly at the beginning, cost the club a packet, while Rod was learning more about the industry. Perfectly illustrated by the Derek Riordan saga, when after the original contract offer to Deeks was withdrawn to allow the then new manager time to assess his capabilities, when it became obvious the talent the player had, Deeks wanted the cash paid back to reflect the loss he incurred, Rod Petrie refused and Deeks didn't sign the contract and therefore we got 150k for a million pound plus player. There was many other examples where the treatment of players would have discouraged decent players from coming to ER, if they had alternatives elsewhere and this would have contributed to our alarming slide.

Before Rod's involvement with Hibs, we had been relegated once since the 1930's and twice in his time and after the latest it took the recruitment of LD to lift the club to Scottish cup winners. There is little doubt that enormous credit is deserved for the infrastructure changing to such a fantastic degree but whether the cost [not monetary terms] needed to be so high, for me, is debatable. Back in the Sauzee/Latapy era the relationship between fans and the club was poisonous and the 11,000 crowds that, that fantastic team got was testament to that and this was often quoted as our break even figure, therefore showing the distinct lack of foresight and appreciation at what could be achieved, which fast forward a number of years would show us.

To me the deceit started with the Kenny Miller sale, not the fact he had to be sold, but we were repeatedly being told that the club was not in trouble, despite the huge amount of expensive [Duffy] signings still attached to the club and the better quality added by McLeish, afterall we were owned by a very rich man who had just sold his highly rated business to a major international organisation, so there was no reason not to believe the line being fed out of ER. Overnight it came out we had 22 million debts and Hibs had to deal with them which would mean the break up of the team starting with the sale of Kenny Miller, who after a season predominantly in Rangers reserves, went south for a million more than we got for him.

[Tom Hart RIP]

i remember speaking to jimmy Nicholl after his game in charge as caretaker and he was quite open that lots of players (not just Hibs) can't handle abuse from the crowd and Easter Road in particular was not an easy place to play for Hibs' players.
Players will not try things in games that they do in training for fear of abuse from the fans. That's just the way it is.

[Just Alf]

i remember speaking to jimmy Nicholl after his game in charge as caretaker and he was quite open that lots of players (not just Hibs) can't handle abuse from the crowd and Easter Road in particular was not an easy place to play for Hibs' players.
Players will not try things in games that they do in training for fear of abuse from the fans. That's just the way it is.On a similar note I remember listening to a certain Terry Butcher on radio discussing ICT going to Easter Road and he basically said it was one of the less painful away games as there was a lower '12th man' effect for the home.team and that if ICT can stop things happening on the pitch, the 12th man effect switches in favour of the away team.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

On a similar note I remember listening to a certain Terry Butcher on radio discussing ICT going to Easter Road and he basically said it was one of the less painful away games as there was a lower '12th man' effect for the home.team and that if ICT can stop things happening on the pitch, the 12th man effect switches in favour of the away team.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk It must be the ghost of a lower 12th man this year then given our home form. Manager say lots of things to introduce mind games into fixtures. I've been at most grounds in Scotland and ER doesn't stand out for players being abused

[Hector Mudflap]

I have heard it all my days at Hibs and to be honest I heard it during a season watching Aberdeen and a season with Dundee Utd (Uni student and no car-so what do you do?) Every team has fans that do it. I remember the worst case for me was De la cruz's name being read out to the crowd at the 2nd leg AEK game and even in the heart of the East under the gantry one or two guys giving it big boos and shouts about how bad he was. It started a bit of an argument with me and some others but the rest of the support were disappointingly quiet. I don't go along to shout abuse and encouragement really is everything though it doesn't stop the uncontrollable groans that escape when a player does the wrong thing or misses a chance.
Right now though - I'm glad I'm not at games because a couple of players wind me up so much I would be finding it very hard...

[ronaldo7]

Folk will always give it large on match day.

I remember sitting behind Alistair Stevenson at the Youth cup final in 2009, a bloke sitting in front of him was giving Kurtis Byrne pelters for failing to link play, Kurtis then pops up an scores the winner in the last minute of extra time. The boy was up dancing in his seat like a young yin, with Stevenson behind him just shaking his head.

[Hector Mudflap]

Folk will always give it large on match day.

I remember sitting behind Alistair Stevenson at the Youth cup final in 2009, a bloke sitting in front of him was giving Kurtis Byrne pelters for failing to link play, Kurtis then pops up an scores the winner in the last minute of extra time. The boy was up dancing in his seat like a young yin, with Stevenson behind him just shaking his head.


lol the life of a fickle football fan eh.

[Not So Young]

In the old days it would be a moan over a beer in the pub with your mates & then forgotten about as you looked forward to the next game. Happy days.


Thats what I remember it as.

It all seemed so much simpler back then

I also think we were not exposed to all the football we see today. How often had many of us seen a Liverpool or Man Utd game and as for foriegn teams once in a blue moon

[The Captain....]

Im not quite the same vintage as the OP but I dont think now, actually at the games, the abuse is as bad as it was in say the 80s and early 90s. What I would say tho is that opinions on the forums etc of players and managers seem to be formed ridiculously prematurely imo with little leeway given for other factors. I think players and managers got more time in the past definitely.

If I was player Id keep off social media and away from messageboards....I remember reading a player say once they could read 99 positive comments after a game but it would be the 1 negative one that would stick in their minds.