Annual Accounts

[JGS56]

The Annual Accounts must be about to be released as on the 19 February 2020 a Confirmation Statement was lodged with Company's House, which will be available within 10 days.
So look forward to an announcement soon. Good news or bad news???

[Since452]

The Annual Accounts must be about to be released as on the 19 February 2020 a Confirmation Statement was lodged with Company's House, which will be available within 10 days.
So look forward to an announcement soon. Good news or bad news???

Likely to be bad reading and not looking forward to it to be honest. Next season will put us back on track if we qualify for Europe.

[hibbysam]

Likely to be bad reading and not looking forward to it to be honest. Next season will put us back on track if we qualify for Europe.

Wont be bad reading for these accounts, majority of the season was played and we only missed out on a couple of home games.

[Peevemor]

Wont be bad reading for these accounts, majority of the season was played and we only missed out on a couple of home games.

ST income will be down a fair bit compared to previous years (the bulk of the money came in later IIRC).

[danhibees1875]

ST income will be down a fair bit compared to previous years (the bulk of the money came in later IIRC).

Did we not have record ST sales last year? They were healthy anyways I'm sure.

[Peevemor]

Did we not have record ST sales last year? They were healthy anyways I'm sure.

ST sales for this season (20-21) will be in last year's accounts.

[JGS56]

The Annual Accounts must be about to be released as on the 19 February 2020 a Confirmation Statement was lodged with Company's House, which will be available within 10 days.
So look forward to an announcement soon. Good news or bad news???

Just been checking the website again - I have got it wrong. It is not the Annual Accounts - just a confirmation of shares.
Maybe more have been issued to put more money into the Club.

Need to watch for the release of this document.

[weecounty hibby]

I await with baited breath the forensic accountancy analysis from oneleagueback. Only after they have checked and double checked the figures using that counting super power of their additional finger on each hand will I know what to think.

[AltheHibby]

I await with baited breath the forensic accountancy analysis from oneleagueback. Only after they have checked and double checked the figures using that counting super power of their additional finger on each hand will I know what to think.

They'll be fine to count up to 24 1/2 if they take their shoes and y-fronts off.

[danhibees1875]

ST sales for this season (20-21) will be in last year's accounts.

It won't show it that way. The cash for this season will be in them (with the other side showing as deferred income in the creditors) but the income would fall into the correct years.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Just been checking the website again - I have got it wrong. It is not the Annual Accounts - just a confirmation of shares.
Maybe more have been issued to put more money into the Club.

Need to watch for the release of this document.

doubt it. Unfortunately.

[Peevemor]

It won't show it that way. The cash for this season will be in them (with the other side showing as deferred income in the creditors) but the income would fall into the correct years.Yes, but the cash balance is shown and can be a decent indicator of how well (or not) we're set up for the season to come.

[hibbysam]

Yes, but the cash balance is shown and can be a decent indicator of how well (or not) we're set up for the season to come.

Whether our accounts are healthy or not isn’t based on the following years’ season ticket sales. We had record season ticket sales for last season and the league was cut short by only 3/4 home games. It wouldn’t have affected us too much. This season is a different story altogether.

[Billy Whizz]

Wonder when the alleged insurance money was paid

[CropleyWasGod]

Just been checking the website again - I have got it wrong. It is not the Annual Accounts - just a confirmation of shares.
Maybe more have been issued to put more money into the Club.

Need to watch for the release of this document.

It's the Confirmation Statement, which is submitted annually.

It's a declaration of the shareholders and office-bearers of the club. An allotment of shares would be shown on a different form.

[Peevemor]

Whether our accounts are healthy or not isn’t based on the following years’ season ticket sales. We had record season ticket sales for last season and the league was cut short by only 3/4 home games. It wouldn’t have affected us too much. This season is a different story altogether.Except you can't ignore the fact that a large part of the following season's ST sales are included in the accounts and have been for as long as I can remember.

I was a partner in my own business at 25 years old (and still am). Please don't try to give me a lesson about accounts.

[Billy Whizz]

Except you can't ignore the fact that a large part of the following season's ST sales are included in the accounts and have been for as long as I can remember.

I was a partner in my own business at 25 years old (and still am). Please don't try to give me a lesson about accounts.

We sold around 9000 ST by 30th June
What was the final figure

[Peevemor]

We sold around 9000 ST by 30th June
What was the final figureI can't remember TBH. Was it not something like 11.5 - 12k?

[greenginger]

Whilst I was on the Companies House site , I had a look at Developments with our neighbours .

I see director Eric Hogg ( Mrs Budge’s Bidey - in ) has left the Hearts board.

Movement preparing for take over by FoH or just fed up with the circus. :dunno:

[hibbysam]

Except you can't ignore the fact that a large part of the following season's ST sales are included in the accounts and have been for as long as I can remember.

I was a partner in my own business at 25 years old (and still am). Please don't try to give me a lesson about accounts.

Has no impact on our P/L though which is all fans are interested in. If you look at a snapshot of our cash balance to determine how healthy our accounts are then fair play.

Not sure why your getting so defensive, no one is giving any lessons, just stating a fact that this years season ticket sales doesn’t impact last years top level accounts.

[Stuart93]

Except you can't ignore the fact that a large part of the following season's ST sales are included in the accounts and have been for as long as I can remember.

I was a partner in my own business at 25 years old (and still am). Please don't try to give me a lesson about accounts.

Jesus Christ. Chill out. Came across as a bit of a dick with your last sentence there. Tad unnecessary.

[Peevemor]

Has no impact on our P/L though which is all fans are interested in. If you look at a snapshot of our cash balance to determine how healthy our accounts are then fair play.Did I mention profit & loss?

In years gone by the accounts were issued in time for an AG well before Christmas. With a very large part of our income being sales banked in advance, the size of the pile of cash to hand as we entered the season was a good pointer as to the nick we were in.

Balance sheets can be manipulated in any number of ways, but there's no arguing with cash in hand.

Cash is king and cash-flow is everything.

This isn't as interesting if the accounts are published toward the end of the season and obviously Covid & Ron mean that our finances are now far less predictable us outsiders.

[Peevemor]

Jesus Christ. Chill out. Come across as a bit of a dick with your last sentence there. Tad unnecessary.Some posters have taken to disagreeing with me whenever the opportunity presents. I can't be bothered with a pissing contest tonight.

If you think I'm a dick then that's up to you.

[CropleyWasGod]

Has no impact on our P/L though which is all fans are interested in. If you look at a snapshot of our cash balance to determine how healthy our accounts are then fair play.

Not sure why your getting so defensive, no one is giving any lessons, just stating a fact that this years season ticket sales doesn’t impact last years top level accounts.

I'd disagree on that.

If you follow the discussions about the accounts on here over the past few years, fans are arguably more interested in how much cash we have/had, in order to support or criticise the Club's spending.

[hibbysam]

Did I mention profit & loss?

In years gone by the accounts were issued in time for an AG well before Christmas. With a very large part of our income being sales banked in advance, the size of the pile of cash to hand as we entered the season was a good pointer as to the nick we were in.

Balance sheets can be manipulated in any number of ways, but there's no arguing with cash in hand.

Cash is king and cash-flow is everything.

This isn't as interesting if the accounts are published toward the end of the season and obviously Covid & Ron mean that our finances are far less predictable to the likes of us.

The average punter has no idea what a healthy cash balance would look like. No one talks about how much cash a club has in the bank when the accounts come out. The first line someone will look at to determine accounts health will be P/L. Profit good, loss bad. 99% aren’t accountants therefore care very little around the inner details.

[hibbysam]

I'd disagree on that.

If you follow the discussions about the accounts on here over the past few years, fans are arguably more interested in how much cash we have/had, in order to support or criticise the Club's spending.

But then state that we had £xm in the bank so we should be fine through Covid, even though said cash balance was actually 9 months before and is more than likely all gone by the time the accounts are produced. Celtic produced their half season accounts and all anyone talks about is the £6m loss, nothing about their cash in the bank balance.

[Peevemor]

The average punter has no idea what a healthy cash balance would look like. No one talks about how much cash a club has in the bank when the accounts come out. The first line someone will look at to determine accounts health will be P/L. Profit good, loss bad. 99% aren’t accountants therefore care very little around the inner details.

Yes we do. We have the conversation every season. It's also often one of the bullet points in the press statement when the accounts are released, especially when cash in hand is good.

As for profit & loss.

We've already seen Hearts declare 7 figure profits and cash in hand of £2m going into the season, whereas Hibs have barely broken even but have £5m in the bank.

I know which I'd prefer to be.

[Peevemor]

But then state that we had £xm in the bank so we should be fine through Covid, even though said cash balance was actually 9 months before and is more than likely all gone by the time the accounts are produced. Celtic produced their half season accounts and all anyone talks about is the £6m loss, nothing about their cash in the bank balance.It's only recently that the accounts have been so "late".

[CropleyWasGod]

But then state that we had £xm in the bank so we should be fine through Covid, even though said cash balance was actually 9 months before and is more than likely all gone by the time the accounts are produced. Celtic produced their half season accounts and all anyone talks about is the £6m loss, nothing about their cash in the bank balance.

In most years, the accounts are out well before the end of the calendar year, so that fans can discuss just how well the ST cash has been spent. If you look back at previous years' discussions on here, the chat is generally more sophisticated than looking at just one number. I'd wager that would go for Celtic boards as well.

[hibbysam]

Yes we do. We have the conversation every season. It's also often one of the bullet points in the press statement when the accounts are released, especially when cash in hand is good.

As for profit & loss.

We've already seen Hearts declare 7 figure profits and cash in hand of £2m going into the season, whereas Hibs have barely broken even but have £5m in the bank.

I know which I'd prefer to be.

What is a healthy cash in hand balance? Also, how often do we sell more than 9000 season tickets by the end of June (cut off date for accounts so cut off date for cash in hand)? Again I don’t think this seasons ticket sales at that point has any impact on the health of last seasons accounts.

[Peevemor]

What is a healthy cash in hand balance? Also, how often do we sell more than 9000 season tickets by the end of June (cut off date for accounts so cut off date for cash in hand)? Again I don’t think this seasons ticket sales at that point has any impact on the health of last seasons accounts.Good seasons in the past have seen us with around £5m+ cash in hand, however transfer dealings in August will obviously have an effect.

The number of STs sold at the end of June is irrelevant. It's the total one month later that goes into the accounts.

[King Cosell]

Hopefully we'll get another million in prize money. Our prize money for 7th last season was £1.43 million, Motherwell got £2.4 million for finishing 3rd. And we'll probably sell at least one player in the summer. Big Ron's no mug, I think our finances will be sound.

[danhibees1875]

Good seasons in the past have seen us with around £5m+ cash in hand, however transfer dealings in August will obviously have an effect.

The number of STs sold at the end of June is irrelevant. It's the total one month later that goes into the accounts.

Our year end is the end of June isn't it? It got moved forward when they changed the league cup I think.

So the cash balance would be the money received for ST sales up to the end of June, which I imagine would be the bulk of it but not all.

If we're just using cash balance then I don't think we'd know what was ST sales and what was left over from last period either (again, mostly the former though). Deferred income would be the best indicator of how ST sales were going for the next season (by the point of reading it would be the season we're in the middle/near the end of) up to the point of the end of June.

I'm with hibbysam on this one, most people look at the income in the p&l as their point of reference, dated as it may be.

[Peevemor]

Our year end is the end of June isn't it? It got moved forward when they changed the league cup I think.

So the cash balance would be the money received for ST sales up to the end of June, which I imagine would be the bulk of it but not all.

If we're just using cash balance then I don't think we'd know what was ST sales and what was left over from last period either (again, mostly the former though). Deferred income would be the best indicator of how ST sales were going for the next season (by the point of reading it would be the season we're in the middle/near the end of) up to the point of the end of June.

I'm with hibbysam on this one, most people look at the income in the p&l as their point of reference, dated as it may be.I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?

Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.

[hibbysam]

I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?

Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.

They’ve been the end of June for years, was extended by two days to take the takeover into account (cash injection and debt clearance).

[Peevemor]

They’ve been the end of June for years, was extended by two days to take the takeover into account (cash injection and debt clearance).

:aok:

[danhibees1875]

I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?

Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.

I think it predates the ownership change.

I could be wrong but I think it was to keep the playing season neatly within the financial year.

[gbhibby]

Let's just wait until they are published there is no point speculating.

[Peevemor]

Let's just wait until they are published there is no point speculating.In years gone by it was fairly easy to predict roughly what the accounts were going to show. This time around is completely different as there are so many unknowns, mainly due to Covid but Ron also seems to have moved us up a gear in terms of the player budget - at least that's the impression I get.

A bit of speculation could be interesting.

You could say that there's no point in us debating Saturday's red card, but we still do it.

[hibbysam]

In years gone by it was fairly easy to predict roughly what the accounts were going to show. This time around is completely different as there are so many unknowns, mainly due to Covid but Ron also seems to have moved us up a gear in terms of the player budget - at least that's the impression I get.

A bit of speculation could be interesting.

You could say that there's no point in us debating Saturday's red card, but we still do it.

Agreed.

Speculating what’s in the accounts, or how we will do in the next four games etc isn’t going to affect what actually happens. Would be boring as **** if we just sat and waited for things to happen before commenting on them. Rumours and speculation is a huge part of football and sites like this.

[ancient hibee]

Profit is nice. Cash is king.

[BSEJVT]

Profit is nice. Cash is king.

Except for the fact that if you keep posting losses your cash will evaporate unless further capital is injected.


There are many things to look at it a set of accounts, with neither profit nor cash balances being the sole arbiter of success or stability

[ancient hibee]

Except for the fact that if you keep posting losses your cash will evaporate unless further capital is injected.


There are many things to look at it a set of accounts, with neither profit nor cash balances being the sole arbiter of success or stability

Without cash you cannot do business.You can without profit which as you know is arrived at in an often artificial way in employing certain accounting procedures.

[danhibees1875]

Without cash you cannot do business.You can without profit which as you know is arrived at in an often artificial way in employing certain accounting procedures.

But as fans we're usually more interested in the profit ( or more accurately here, the income) which shows the overall performance for the year being reported.

The cash line is a single balance of the amount of money we held on one given day. Sure, it's a reasonable indicator of what will be available to spend on the next season but it's not generally the headline figure people are interested in reading about I don't think.

[Peevemor]

But as fans we're usually more interested in the profit ( or more accurately here, the income) which shows the overall performance for the year being reported.

The cash line is a single balance of the amount of money we held on one given day. Sure, it's a reasonable indicator of what will be available to spend on the next season but it's not generally the headline figure people are interested in reading about I don't think.

In reality the later the accounts are published (and it's already almost 8 months after the year end), the less interesting the cash balance becomes. In the second week of the month it's good to know how much of your wages you have left whereas you don't really care how much you had a month earlier.

[Juniper Greens]

Unless there's a liquidity crisis. The P and L gives us the best indication of how the business is performing.

Most fans probably rely on that number without realising it, we all just talk about if the club made a profit etc, thats just the headline amount in the P and L. Its also the bit that's largely picked up by the media.

Lots of cash in the bank isn't a good thing. There is an opportunity cost of holding too much cash, I can't understand why celtic seemed so content to build massive cash reserves, they could have spent that money on anything and then released the amounts when needed.

Footbally clubs up here don't operate as sensible businesses, and some of the decision making from club boards, like celtics make that point so obvious

[Peevemor]

Unless there's a liquidity crisis. The P and L gives us the best indication of how the business is performing.

Most fans probably rely on that number without realising it, we all just talk about if the club made a profit etc, thats just the headline amount in the P and L. Its also the bit that's largely picked up by the media.

Lots of cash in the bank isn't a good thing. There is an opportunity cost of holding too much cash, I can't understand why celtic seemed so content to build massive cash reserves, they could have spent that money on anything and then released the amounts when needed.

Footbally clubs up here don't operate as sensible businesses, and some of the decision making from club boards, like celtics make that point so obvious

Very few football clubs, especially in Scotland, have excess cash. Given Hibs go through £600k+ per month, it's surely not excessive for us to attack the season with say £5m in the bank?

[ancient hibee]

In the last accounts profit was arrived at after deduction of depreciation and amortisation of contracts totalling £900,000.In another year of lower season ticket sales this could have lead to a reported loss but would have no effect on the ability of the club to do business but what would have an effect would be the lower season sales generating less cash.