Joe Newell contract [Archive] - hibs.net Messageboard

Lancs Harp

13-02-2021, 08:47 PM

I hope Joe re-signs, I'm sure he saw playing in Scotland as a short term opportunity to progressing his career. He's done well for us, does us a favour signing a new contract as it mean if a club comes in for him they will have to pay a decent rate if he's under contract. From a personal pov he continually improves which means he attracts a better club and the added bonus of playing European football must be appealing and considered a major plus point.

CapitalGreen

13-02-2021, 08:55 PM

No disrespect but money talks. For most professional footballers that's the main driver.

Yup and the club will be in a stronger position to offer increased wages and bonuses to players if group stage European football is guaranteed for next season.

Fergus52

13-02-2021, 09:15 PM

Did Boyle not make a joke about it in an interview or something?

That would seem promising to me.

The Modfather

13-02-2021, 09:17 PM

I’d like him to stay, and it depends on what happens with Irvine, but I don’t think Newell is as integral as he was pre January. He’s got a job on his hands to get back in the team.

allmodcons

13-02-2021, 09:18 PM

Yup and the club will be in a stronger position to offer increased wages and bonuses to players if group stage European football is guaranteed for next season.

I agree with that and also think they may take a gamble on Newell and look to tie up Irvine if they think Nisbet and/or Porteous are to be sold at the end of the season.

FilipinoHibs

13-02-2021, 09:30 PM

Wages not great at Rotherham - see below. Don't think he has done enough to get a contract with a bigger championship side.

Think he will be trying to maximize sal
ary and length of contract at Hibs.

https://footballleaguefc.com/rotherham-united-2player-wages/

Eyrie

13-02-2021, 10:00 PM

CB Hibs 68

13-02-2021, 10:14 PM

Would love to keep Newall and Irvine but think that keeping one of them is the most likely scenario.Two different styles of player but ultimately keeping hold of Irvine is the priority particularly if Scott Allen can regain fitness and form..

Speedy

13-02-2021, 10:19 PM

I like Newell but I'm not sure he's done anything he wasn't already doing down the road so no guarantees the offers are better there than they were before.

Every chance he stays on.

Since452

13-02-2021, 10:27 PM

I think he'll hang off until he sees where we're going to finish. Potential Europa League group stages will see him stay imo.

Speedy

13-02-2021, 10:57 PM

I think he'll hang off until he sees where we're going to finish. Potential Europa League group stages will see him stay imo.

Good shout. Likely his only chance for European football

3pm

13-02-2021, 11:10 PM

He might get more money but he will not get a better club.

Forza Fred

13-02-2021, 11:10 PM

Newell and Irvine could get more money down south, but what they won't get is a chance to play in Europe.

So I'd consider offering both a one year deal to keep both sides happy. We get them for another year, and they would still be free agents after it. Good performances in Europe could see them get a better club or contract than they would this summer.

Not sure the idea of playing a few games in Europe will make a difference to their decision.

Especially not in Irvine’s case who has already played allover the world for Oz, including 3 World Cup finals appearances.

Ithink they will both get offers from championship sides that are 4 or 5 times what they get at Hibs, so think they will be back down the road in the summer.

I also hope I am 100% wrong, and that something can be done to keep them here.

B.H.F.C

13-02-2021, 11:15 PM

Not sure the idea of playing a few games in Europe will make a difference to their decision.

Especially not in Irvine’s case who has already played allover the world for Oz, including 3 World Cup finals appearances.

Ithink they will both get offers from championship sides that are 4 or 5 times what they get at Hibs, so think they will be back down the road in the summer.

I also hope I am 100% wrong, and that something can be done to keep them here.

I think Newell might get more money than Hibs can pay, but not 4-5 times as much. That would put him on £15k or so a week and he’s not that good a player. I know the championship has a bit of money but the average wage is skewed massively between what the top and bottom teams pay.

SMAXXA

13-02-2021, 11:16 PM

If he leaves he leaves. I like him he’s been one of our better players this season but strangely enough that being said I think he’s replaceable and wouldn’t bother me too much if he decided to leave. I’d rather keep him but if not won’t be devastated.

Magpie

13-02-2021, 11:17 PM

He probably wants to see where we end up this season before making a decision. If we get into the Europa League or Europa Conference group stages then I think he will stay.

Stanton Spence

13-02-2021, 11:46 PM

Not sure the idea of playing a few games in Europe will make a difference to their decision.

Especially not in Irvine’s case who has already played allover the world for Oz, including 3 World Cup finals appearances.

Ithink they will both get offers from championship sides that are 4 or 5 times what they get at Hibs, so think they will be back down the road in the summer.

I also hope I am 100% wrong, and that something can be done to keep them here.If they could get four or five times what we can pay them then why did Newell sign for us in the first place? He's not been that impressive as much as I like him as a player and why was Irvine without a club at all for six months?
Surely if they were that good then they wouldn't be at hibs earning a quarter or a fifth of what championship clubs can pay
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Dr What If?

14-02-2021, 08:03 AM

Schadenfreude is not something I take any pleasure in, however there are some recent examples that act as a good warning to players that the 'poker' game of holding out does not always end well.....I think of Fraser Fyvie and Efe Ambrose who left us for better deals elsewhere that didn't materialise, or Stephen O'Donnell who turned down an extension at Killie for a couple of temporary contracts at Motherwell.
Newell has been decent but hasn't stood out, not enough anyway. When other clubs came poking about in the last window it wasn't him they were looking at. The kind of money that was being talked about for our star performers shows that England still doesn't rate Scottish football that highly, if Newell moves it will be because some lower championship side want a squad player or it will be League 1.....to make matters worse for him, COVID means the amount of money kicking about is much reduced at those levels.
If Hibs have put an offer on the table he should be thinking seriously about picking up that pen......there may not be a better offer and we could find better in the meantime.

J-C

14-02-2021, 08:21 AM

Newell was another to take his time to find his feet at Hibs his form has been up and down like many others, some games he's been excellent and looks the best player on the pitch, the next game could easily pass him by and he's been a passenger. This has been seen in Hallberg and Mallan and one of the main reasons our performances are so inconsistent but we are Hibs and until we pay bigger wages inconsistent players like Newell, Hallberg, Mallan, Doidge, Horgan, Slivka etc, are who we will get into the club.

NORTHERNHIBBY

14-02-2021, 08:34 AM

Whether he signs or doesn't want to sign, the sooner that is clear the better. That leaves Jack Ross in the best place to manage the situation properly and to the best advantage of the club.

Brightside

14-02-2021, 08:45 AM

Joe and Rocky have had offers on the table for a long time. Neither are in any rush to sign them. Obviously a game of bluff from both and we just need to see who folds first.

Andy74

14-02-2021, 08:49 AM

bingo70

14-02-2021, 08:49 AM

Joe and Rocky have had offers on the table for a long time. Neither are in any rush to sign them. Obviously a game of bluff from both and we just need to see who folds first.

They’ll be thinking that if we get Europe our budget will increase so what’s the rush in signing now?

I think Marciano’s chat last week that he knows his worth was ominous and suspect he’ll be away.

I can see Newell at Birmingham next season.

tonyrougier123

14-02-2021, 09:35 AM

Ian harkes from Dundee Utd perfect replacement if he doesn’t sign on.

Souter96Mac

14-02-2021, 09:40 AM

They’ll be thinking that if we get Europe our budget will increase so what’s the rush in signing now?

I think Marciano’s chat last week that he knows his worth was ominous and suspect he’ll be away.

I can see Newell at Birmingham next season.

I think he would jump at the chance of joining them if they were interested. If being the key word I think.

Since452

14-02-2021, 09:41 AM

Ian harkes from Dundee Utd perfect replacement if he doesn’t sign on.

Only player I've been impressed with at United is Fuchs.

Andy74

14-02-2021, 09:42 AM

Ian harkes from Dundee Utd perfect replacement if he doesn’t sign on.

Nowhere near Newell’s level.

Eyrie

14-02-2021, 09:46 AM

Not sure the idea of playing a few games in Europe will make a difference to their decision.

Especially not in Irvine’s case who has already played allover the world for Oz, including 3 World Cup finals appearances.

Ithink they will both get offers from championship sides that are 4 or 5 times what they get at Hibs, so think they will be back down the road in the summer.

I also hope I am 100% wrong, and that something can be done to keep them here.

Fair point about Irvine's achievements so far.

I wouldn't blame either of them for leaving if they could get another £4k per week (probably double Hibs' offer) but if there's only £1k in it then the opportunity to play in Europe has to be tempting for an extra year here.

Keyser Sauzee

14-02-2021, 09:51 AM

Nowhere near Newell’s level.

Yep, it’s a nonsense comparison.

Hibbyradge

14-02-2021, 09:53 AM

Did Boyle not make a joke about it in an interview or something?

That would seem promising to me.

It suggested the reverse to me.

It was like Boyle was trying to ambush or embarrass Newell on live TV.

Hibbyradge

14-02-2021, 10:00 AM

Not sure the idea of playing a few games in Europe will make a difference to their decision.

Especially not in Irvine’s case who has already played allover the world for Oz, including 3 World Cup finals appearances.

Ithink they will both get offers from championship sides that are 4 or 5 times what they get at Hibs, so think they will be back down the road in the summer.

I also hope I am 100% wrong, and that something can be done to keep them here.

I agree with you and I don't expect to see either in a Hibs shirt come August. I think Irvine, in particular, is a top class player and will have plenty of offers.

J-C

14-02-2021, 10:09 AM

It suggested the reverse to me.

It was like Boyle was trying to ambush or embarrass Newell on live TV.

Like he was goading him, like I've signed, Lewis signed, c'mon mate it's your turn.

MWHIBBIES

14-02-2021, 10:21 AM

Newell and Doidge are both significantly better than run of the mill inconsistent players who struggle to get into the team.

They are both key players in one of the better Hibs teams in recent times.

Indeed. Both excellent. Levels above Mallans, Skivkas and Horgans etc.

OtleyHibs

14-02-2021, 10:30 AM

It has been a strange year, definitely made me wish I was physically closer to my family at times. Don’t blame anyone for holding off committing to anything just now 😁

Hope he signs, if not we move on, I like him a lot but we’ve lost better and got over it I’m the past 👍

tonyrougier123

14-02-2021, 10:34 AM

Nowhere near Newell’s level.

He has improved for me harkes good technique,athletic covers the pitch well.cracking through ball yesterday.sometimes these players are right under your noses.a year left on utd deal.

HendoDelivered

14-02-2021, 10:35 AM

Nowhere near Newell’s level.

Agreed

tonyrougier123

14-02-2021, 10:48 AM

Yep, it’s a nonsense comparison.

Who would you compare newell too?

easty

14-02-2021, 10:49 AM

Ian harkes from Dundee Utd perfect replacement if he doesn’t sign on.

That would be horrendous.

tonyrougier123

14-02-2021, 11:00 AM

That would be horrendous.

Well I think I’ve got an eye for a player so stuff the lot of you 😝😂

EVENTUALLY

14-02-2021, 11:23 AM

Think Barrie Mckay always looked after the ball and would do well in a central midfield role. Now at Swansea on loan to Fleetwood.

hibee-boys

14-02-2021, 11:36 AM

On his day brings great composure and ball retention to the middle of the park but has as many average displays as complete stand outs. Would be happy for him to stay but wouldn’t be breaking the bank to keep him either, would release a fair wage if he doesn’t so would be hoping to find a decent replacement.

DH1875

14-02-2021, 02:24 PM

Never mind 4 or 5 times their wage. Just doubling it and their off. Even just going from £4k to £6k a week is life changing. 3 year deal and that's over £300k extra in the bank.

Robbo6-2

14-02-2021, 02:26 PM

Hes proved himself this season as one of our best players

Irreplaceable no, but defo worth keeping and building a good squad with.

JimBHibees

14-02-2021, 02:42 PM

Think Barrie Mckay always looked after the ball and would do well in a central midfield role. Now at Swansea on loan to Fleetwood.

He is a winger is he not?

JimBHibees

14-02-2021, 02:57 PM

Hes proved himself this season as one of our best players

Irreplaceable no, but defo worth keeping and building a good squad with.

Yep hope he stays.

easty

14-02-2021, 07:01 PM

Never mind 4 or 5 times their wage. Just doubling it and their off. Even just going from £4k to £6k a week is life changing. 3 year deal and that's over £300k extra in the bank.

I don’t think it’s that simple.

I wouldn’t move just anywhere even if my salary would double, and I’m not getting as much as they make here.

truehibernian

14-02-2021, 07:24 PM

Good player, see him now as more in the Dylan role - would be good to get him on a longer deal. Be interesting to see him with Irvine and Cadden in the midfield during the run in.

loanheadhibby

14-02-2021, 09:29 PM

H18 SFR

14-02-2021, 09:34 PM

Come on Andy Doidge is bang average at best.

Even if he is bang average. He’s a bang average player better than anyone else at the club that could replace him up top playing alongside Nisbet or Boyle.

basehibby

15-02-2021, 12:25 AM

Would be delighted if Newell signed on for a lengthier stay at Hibs as he has been great this season - looking like the classiest player on the pitch in many games. I don't know what wage he's on but would suggest he has earned himself a raise if he stays. We all know the finances in football could take him out of our reach though and if that happened I'd wish him good luck (as long as he wasn't poached by the huns or somesuch in which case hanging, drawing and quartering would be too good for him :greengrin)

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 04:10 AM

Come on Andy Doidge is bang average at best.

He’s actually excellent at his best, which he has shown many times. In this league he is well above average

Since452

15-02-2021, 05:24 AM

Come on Andy Doidge is bang average at best.

Doidge is part of a group of players who are well clear in 3rd. Calling him average at best is unfair. He's a nightmare for defenders and even when he doesn't score he's making chances for others. We were screaming out for a player like him for years.

Brightside

15-02-2021, 07:37 AM

Doidge is average yet he keeps getting picked to lead the line. 😂

easty

15-02-2021, 07:48 AM

Doidge is average yet he keeps getting picked to lead the line. 😂

And would get picked at every team outside the top 2.

lucky

15-02-2021, 07:58 AM

I wish we had more bang average players like Doidge. If some Hibs fans can’t see what he brings to the team maybe Yogi was right when he said “fitba folk ken”

Bangkok Hibby

15-02-2021, 08:04 AM

Doidge is average yet he keeps getting picked to lead the line. 😂

He doesnt even approach average if we're talking natural goalscorer. I haven't been his biggest fan but now accept his other talents talked about here make him a very important part of our current side.

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 08:29 AM

He doesnt even approach average if we're talking natural goalscorer. I haven't been his biggest fan but now accept his other talents talked about here make him a very important part of our current side.

Yes, his 133 careers goals in 344 games, better than 1 in 3 shows he is a hopeless goalscorer.

He is an above average goal scorer and a quality player. Vital in our season so far.

Andy74

15-02-2021, 08:30 AM

Come on Andy Doidge is bang average at best.

No, he's not.

He's played a bit of a different role this year with Nisbet getting a bigger share of the goals, but last season he scored 19 goals in 39 games for us.

A quick look at prominent Hibs strikers shows Fletcher's best was 14 in 35 games, Kenny Miller got 13 in 38, Garry O'Connor got 20 in 45. Mixu's best was 12, Killen got 16 and Archibald got 15 in 44 total games.

He does a lot more but even on goal scoring he is doing fine overall.

HH81

15-02-2021, 08:49 AM

Newell would have signed by now if he was going to.

I reckon he will be away back down to England.

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 08:59 AM

Newell would have signed by now if he was going to.

I reckon he will be away back down to England.

Not necessarily, he could be just waiting to see how the season progresses and if he gets any better offers in from Championship clubs. If we come third we may be in a position to offer Newell, Marciano, Irvine improved terms to what is currently on the table.

Smartie

15-02-2021, 09:07 AM

Doidge has been miles from his best this season but even at his current level he's a hugely important player for us.

If he gets back to doing what he's capable of then he's one of the best in the league.

I'm critical of him but it's only because I rate him.

Hibby Kay-Yay

15-02-2021, 09:16 AM

Bangkok Hibby

15-02-2021, 09:22 AM

Yes, his 133 careers goals in 344 games, better than 1 in 3 shows he is a hopeless goalscorer.

He is an above average goal scorer and a quality player. Vital in our season so far.

It would be interesting to see how many of his goals have come off his shoulder instead of head, his shin instead of foot, off a defender instead of missing the goal. Look I now rate the job he's doing at Hibs as I've said and won't comment any more as its not the right thread but I'll maintain he cannot be classed as a natural goalscorer.

hibbysam

15-02-2021, 09:44 AM

It would be interesting to see how many of his goals have come off his shoulder instead of head, his shin instead of foot, off a defender instead of missing the goal. Look I now rate the job he's doing at Hibs as I've said and won't comment any more as its not the right thread but I'll maintain he cannot be classed as a natural goalscorer.

He’s an all round striker who also scores goals. Couldn’t care less what part of his body he scores with, he scores them. He misses loads of chances, but creates far more, and scores his fair share. GOC, Fletch etc none of them were ‘natural goalscorers’ and all missed plenty chances. They still scored loads and their all round game was what made them outstanding players. Doidge not quite at their level but he’s definitely in the same mould.

Peevemor

15-02-2021, 09:48 AM

Only the uglies have scored more than us therefore we must be doing something right. This wouldn't be the case if one half of our strike force was as useless as some make out.

Brightside

15-02-2021, 10:05 AM

I dont think it matters if anyone is categorised as a natural goal scorer. I'm all for strikers who score 20 goals off their shins etc.

hibbysam

15-02-2021, 10:09 AM

I dont think it matters if anyone is categorised as a natural goal scorer. I'm all for strikers who score 20 goals off their shins etc.

Me, and everyone else saying Bruno scored a peach yesterday, even though it was off his shin. A goal is a goal, whether a yard out off your arse or a 45 yard lob.

Since452

15-02-2021, 11:10 AM

I'm glad the Ross out/Doidge is pish brigade aren't in charge of our football club

CropleyWasGod

15-02-2021, 11:12 AM

I'm glad the Ross out/Doidge is pish brigade aren't in charge of our football club

Oh, I dunno... you should hear Wee Ron when he's got a drink in him.

worcesterhibby

15-02-2021, 11:15 AM

Oh, I dunno... you should hear Wee Ron when he's got a drink in him.

:faf: I have a very funny mental picture in my head now !

easty

15-02-2021, 11:21 AM

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 11:25 AM

Irvine has brought a real difference to the midfield and others have benefited from it. I’m glad our game against Ross County was postponed as it gives him some extra time to recover from the last game.

Really looking forward to seeing how Joe benefits from Irvine in the team. Having a midfield 3 of Irvine, Gogic and Newell, with Cadden and Doig running the flanks sounds pretty solid to me.

I'd much rather see Allan or Murphy in there over Gogic against most teams in the league.

Gogic is great for games when we need an enforcer (against Aberdeen or the old firm, or when the pitch is terrible), but I wouldn't be starting him every week.

In most games I'd much rather see a hibs midfield where every player has good technique, can take players on and play defence splitting through balls a la McGeouch-McGinn-Allan. Think with Newell-Irvine-Allan/Murphy we're close to having that again.

Sammy7nil

15-02-2021, 11:29 AM

B.H.F.C

15-02-2021, 11:36 AM

I'd much rather see Allan or Murphy in there over Gogic against most teams in the league.

Gogic is great for games when we need an enforcer (against Aberdeen or the old firm, or when the pitch is terrible), but I wouldn't be starting him every week.

In most games I'd much rather see a hibs midfield where every player has good technique, can take players on and play defence splitting through balls a la McGeouch-McGinn-Allan. Think with Newell-Irvine-Allan/Murphy we're close to having that again.

Midfield has been perfectly balanced the last few weeks with Gogic, Irvine and Murphy. Getting the best players on the pitch doesn’t necessarily add up to the best balance IMO.

It’s Gogic, Irvine and one other for me. Newell has a battle to get back in the team for me, as I don’t think he’s the one to play that bit further forward.

Smartie

15-02-2021, 11:36 AM

I'd much rather see Allan or Murphy in there over Gogic against most teams in the league.

Gogic is great for games when we need an enforcer (against Aberdeen or the old firm, or when the pitch is terrible), but I wouldn't be starting him every week.

In most games I'd much rather see a hibs midfield where every player has good technique, can take players on and play defence splitting through balls a la McGeouch-McGinn-Allan. Think with Newell-Irvine-Allan/Murphy we're close to having that again.

Funnily enough I think the team looks much more balanced when Gogic is in there irrespective of who we're playing.

Every team carries a threat against us of some sort, often on the break. Having someone like Gogic in there to win the ball back quickly will stop weaker teams from getting any sort of foothold in the game.

When we play badly as a team he tends to stick out like a sore thumb but I think he's had a cracking few games of late, and he had a few good games at the start of the season when we were playing well too.

At the moment it is looking to me like it is seriously stiff competition for that third midfield place between Murphy, Allan and Newell.

J-C

15-02-2021, 11:43 AM

I wonder how many Robertson or McCoist scored in similar fashion? Two players who are hailed as fantastic goal scorers in Scotland’s history often scalfed and scuffed balls in to the net.

McCoist 584 games 290 goals, 1 in 2,

Robertson 570 games 229 goals around 1 in 2.5

worcesterhibby

15-02-2021, 11:47 AM

McCoist 584 games 290 goals, 1 in 2,

Robertson 570 games 229 goals around 1 in 2.5

yes but how many of them were sclaffed !

O'Rourke3

15-02-2021, 11:55 AM

yes but how many of them were sclaffed !McCoist sclaffed loads in a team that created loads of decent opportunites. Robbo was an excellent finisher in a Hearts team that had Neil MacFarlane. His hight was an issue or he'd have had many more caps.

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J-C

15-02-2021, 11:56 AM

yes but how many of them were sclaffed !

I'll be back in a fortnight while I look at every goal they scored.
Both were excellent poachers who did all their work inside the box, Linekar was another, if you ask them to do more you take away their scoring ability, being the right positions is how they scored so many.
Shearer was a different type, he worked harder and scored many from outside the box.

J-C

15-02-2021, 11:58 AM

Back to Newell, being reported that we may be struggling to tie down both Newell and Rocky, I must admit that if they were signing I think they'd have done it by now. Maybe both want to be nearer family as it has been a very tough year for everyone.

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 12:05 PM

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 12:10 PM

He’s actually excellent at his best, which he has shown many times. In this league he is well above average

Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 12:28 PM

Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?

Jack Ross plays him every week, so he doesn't think he's average.

Not playing for Wales has no impact whatsoever on his ability at this level. Nisbet has zero Scotland caps, average as well? How about Scott Allan?

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 12:46 PM

Midfield has been perfectly balanced the last few weeks with Gogic, Irvine and Murphy. Getting the best players on the pitch doesn’t necessarily add up to the best balance IMO.

It’s Gogic, Irvine and one other for me. Newell has a battle to get back in the team for me, as I don’t think he’s the one to play that bit further forward.

You must have been watching different games to me when we played dundee utd and st mirren away then.

I'll give you it against Aberdeen but our midfield was far from 'perfectly balanced' in either of those two other games. We had nobody playing that deep lying play maker role that newell does so well - taking the ball from the centre backs, distributing from deep, controlling the tempo, setting up attacks with line breaking progressive passes. As a result most of our build up play came from the centre backs either hoofing it to doidge or getting it wide to the wing backs and hoping they would be in space. Both those games were dreadful to watch and definitely not what I want to see from a Hibernian midfield. Having Newell in there would have made a big difference to the entertainment on display and the team performance in both games imo.

Gogic is useful to have but how many top teams in world football play with a pure ball winner as the deepest midfielder every week? very few. Football has moved on from the 2000s.

B.H.F.C

15-02-2021, 01:04 PM

You must have been watching different games to me when we played dundee utd and st mirren away then.

I'll give you it against Aberdeen but our midfield was far from 'perfectly balanced' in either of those two other games. We had nobody playing that deep lying play maker role that newell does so well - taking the ball from the centre backs, distributing from deep, controlling the tempo, setting up attacks with line breaking progressive passes. As a result most of our build up play came from the centre backs either hoofing it to doidge or getting it wide to the wing backs and hoping they would be in space. Both those games were dreadful to watch and definitely not what I want to see from a Hibernian midfield. Having Newell in there would have made a big difference to the entertainment on display and the team performance in both games imo.

Gogic is useful to have but how many top teams in world football play with a pure ball winner as the deepest midfielder every week? very few. Football has moved on from the 2000s.

The Dundee Utd game was on a tatie field, St Mirren was horrific conditions and Aberdeen was on a tatie field against our main rivals.

I disagree with your assessment of how we got our chances in those games as well. Irvine played Boyle in with the best pass I’ve seen from a Hibs midfielder for his goal at Utd for a start.

I agree most top teams have a deep lying playmaker. But we’re not a top team. We’ve found a way that gets the best from most of our players in the last few games. Attackers scoring, not conceding at the other end and the midfield contributing to both. I think that’s a good balance.

worcesterhibby

15-02-2021, 01:36 PM

Funnily enough I think the team looks much more balanced when Gogic is in there irrespective of who we're playing.

Every team carries a threat against us of some sort, often on the break. Having someone like Gogic in there to win the ball back quickly will stop weaker teams from getting any sort of foothold in the game.

I agree with this completely, If anything we could do with a decent back up that is capable of fulfilling Gogic's role when he's injured, overplayed or just out of form. This will be particularly true if we get third this year and end up with a lot of European games. You want at least two players for every position ideally and cover for Gogic and Doidge would be the most important IMHO

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 01:44 PM

The Dundee Utd game was on a tatie field, St Mirren was horrific conditions and Aberdeen was on a tatie field against our main rivals.

I disagree with your assessment of how we got our chances in those games as well. Irvine played Boyle in with the best pass I’ve seen from a Hibs midfielder for his goal at Utd for a start.

I agree most top teams have a deep lying playmaker. But we’re not a top team. We’ve found a way that gets the best from most of our players in the last few games. Attackers scoring, not conceding at the other end and the midfield contributing to both. I think that’s a good balance.

I was talking more about our build up play in our own half, Irvine has played some great through balls in the final third but I've not seen him do it deeper in midfield to help us play through the opposition press and break through the lines while keeping the ball on the deck in the same way that Newell does or McGeough used to.

Also think that's a massive exaggeration, was no doubt a fantastic ball but "best pass you've seen from a hibs midfielder"? I'd highly doubt that, for a period of time in 2017/18 Allan was producing moments like that two or three times in a game.

Like you say we've been getting the results recently so I can't really complain but I think we play our best football when Gogic isn't starting due to how limited he is technically, can only really pass the way his facing and takes him an age to turn when he's facing our own goal with the ball. When we were playing 4-4-2 earlier in the season and Hallberg started partnering Newell in midfield instead of Gogic our style of play was much better to watch, with Newell controlling the game from deep and Hallberg makine late runs into the opposition box. Think Newell and Irvine could have a similar sort of partnership together.

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 01:50 PM

I agree with this completely, If anything we could do with a decent back up that is capable of fulfilling Gogic's role when he's injured, overplayed or just out of form. This will be particularly true if we get third this year and end up with a lot of European games. You want at least two players for every position ideally and cover for Gogic and Doidge would be the most important IMHO

We don't need to have two midfielders who's only job is to tackle in the squad. Definitely need at least one for certain games or to bring on when we're defending a lead but I'd be annoyed if we were wasting a wage on having two midfielders as technically limited as Gogic.

We don't need that sort of player every game. We beat Motherwell 3-0 and completely controlled the midfield with Wright, Hallberg, Newell and Murphy. Who was playing the Gogic role that day?

Similiarly when we beat Aberdeen 3-0 last season we had a diamond of Hallberg, Boyle, Newell and Allan - not a ball winner in sight but again we were dominant against a big physical team because technically our players were streets ahead.

Absolutely loved big Marv, but in 2017/18 after he stopped starting games around January we started playing much better football than in the first half of the season and winning more games, with McGeough playing deeper in midfield than he previously had been.

B.H.F.C

15-02-2021, 01:57 PM

I was talking more about our build up play in our own half, Irvine has played some great through balls in the final third but I've not seen him do it deeper in midfield to help us play through the opposition press and break through the lines while keeping the ball on the deck in the same way that Newell does or McGeough used to.

Also think that's a massive exaggeration, was no doubt a fantastic ball but "best pass you've seen from a hibs midfielder"? I'd highly doubt that, for a period of time in 2017/18 Allan was producing moments like that two or three times in a game.

Like you say we've been getting the results recently so I can't really complain but I think we play our best football when Gogic isn't starting due to how limited he is technically, can only really pass the way his facing and takes him an age to turn when he's facing our own goal with the ball. When we were playing 4-4-2 earlier in the season and Hallberg started partnering Newell in midfield instead of Gogic our style of play was much better to watch, with Newell controlling the game from deep and Hallberg makine late runs into the opposition box. Think Newell and Irvine could have a similar sort of partnership together.

I actually meant to say it was the best pass I’ve seen from a Hibs midfielder this year (not ever) re Irvine’s pass against Utd.

Where I’m coming from is that I don’t think Newell being in the team would have made us better in those particular games. If you look at the corresponding games earlier in the season. Poor and subbed against Aberdeen, poor and subbed up at Utd. Good away to St Mirren on a nice sunny day when we scored an early goal, totally different game and conditions to what we faced a couple of weeks ago.

It’s fine having this idealistic way of playing but in January and February on a pitch in Scotland, it’s probably not going to happen that often. I think the midfield in the last few games have allowed us to do both sides of the game well which I think has been an issue previously, particularly against Aberdeen.

Oscar T Grouch

15-02-2021, 02:02 PM

Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?

I think Doidge is probably suffering from being in the Scottish league system, he would have a better chance getting a game for Wales if he was still at Forest Green or in League 1 down south. OTJ got 7 Welsh caps but they were when he was with Swansea, he was awful but played in the right league.

jacomo

15-02-2021, 02:02 PM

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 02:17 PM

I actually meant to say it was the best pass I’ve seen from a Hibs midfielder this year (not ever) re Irvine’s pass against Utd.

Where I’m coming from is that I don’t think Newell being in the team would have made us better in those particular games. If you look at the corresponding games earlier in the season. Poor and subbed against Aberdeen, poor and subbed up at Utd. Good away to St Mirren on a nice sunny day when we scored an early goal, totally different game and conditions to what we faced a couple of weeks ago.

It’s fine having this idealistic way of playing but in January and February on a pitch in Scotland, it’s probably not going to happen that often. I think the midfield in the last few games have allowed us to do both sides of the game well which I think has been an issue previously, particularly against Aberdeen.

That's very true, recent conditions have been terrible and having Gogic in those scrappy games has been a big help to the team.

Once the wind has died down and the pitches are better I'd be starting Newell over him every week though :greengrin

Stuart93

15-02-2021, 02:20 PM

Stephen McGinn, no?

Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests he’s good enough for us even as a back up.

Waste of a wage imo. Wouldn’t have a problem with him being part of the coaching team

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 02:36 PM

Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests he’s good enough for us even as a back up.

Waste of a wage imo. Wouldn’t have a problem with him being part of the coaching team

Very strange signing. Said at the time it made no sense. No problem with the guy but not good enough for a top 3 side in this league.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 03:13 PM

Yes, his 133 careers goals in 344 games, better than 1 in 3 shows he is a hopeless goalscorer.

He is an above average goal scorer and a quality player. Vital in our season so far.

Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

JimBHibees

15-02-2021, 03:23 PM

Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

Scored 19 goals last season after a slow start. Personally get the impression he is carrying an injury this season as he hasn't been at his best but has certainly shown enough in his time at the club for anyone to set what he brings even if not scoring as many as we would wish him to,

Since452

15-02-2021, 03:28 PM

Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests he’s good enough for us even as a back up.

Waste of a wage imo. Wouldn’t have a problem with him being part of the coaching team

I think he was used more out of necessity at the time more than anything else. I think he was signed to do more of a background role but kept him registered as a player as a fill in. Be lucky to see him on the bench ordinarily.

J-C

15-02-2021, 03:28 PM

Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

I get what some say about his work and how he allows others to play but his return of 6 goals in 32 is just not good enough, 5 in 26 league games and 1 in 5 league cup games is not a great return for a striker, needs to be better than 1 in 5, Nisbet is 1 in 2.5 at the moment.

Brightside

15-02-2021, 03:42 PM

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 03:45 PM

I get what some say about his work and how he allows others to play but his return of 6 goals in 32 is just not good enough, 5 in 26 league games and 1 in 5 league cup games is not a great return for a striker, needs to be better than 1 in 5, Nisbet is 1 in 2.5 at the moment.Not good enough for what? Hes about to be good enough to qualify Hibs for european group stages.

Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

I'm not getting carried away. I've considered him a quality player since Hecky was sacked really.

The 90+2

15-02-2021, 04:10 PM

So, Newells contract?

blackpoolhibs

15-02-2021, 04:29 PM

Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests he’s good enough for us even as a back up.

Waste of a wage imo. Wouldn’t have a problem with him being part of the coaching team

He's just part of the squad, we will have various types of players in the squad, with various levels of quality. They are all part of a squad that have us doing very well, and every window the squad changes hopefully for the better.

There will always be some who we all think is not good enough, but we've needed them at one stage or another over the course of the season.

We will finish where we finish because of the strength of that squad, good and bad.

Since452

15-02-2021, 04:40 PM

Big Doidge will be making defenders life a misery in Europe next season and good on him. Deserves it.

Peevemor

15-02-2021, 04:43 PM

He's just part of the squad, we will have various types of players in the squad, with various levels of quality. They are all part of a squad that have us doing very well, and every window the squad changes hopefully for the better.

There will always be some who we all think is not good enough, but we've needed them at one stage or another over the course of the season.

We will finish where we finish because of the strength of that squad, good and bad.Quite a few were calling Daz a waste of a wage up until 2-3 weeks ago.

The likes of SDG could still play a big part before the season is out and Stephen McGinn has yet to let us down when called upon.

Obviously there's always room for improvement in any squad, but I personally think we have a good mix at the moment, albeit probably lacking depth in terms of forwards.

superfurryhibby

15-02-2021, 04:54 PM

Quite a few were calling Daz a waste of a wage up until 2-3 weeks ago.

The likes of SDG could still play a big part before the season is out and Stephen McGinn has yet to let us down when called upon.

Obviously there's always room for improvement in any squad, but I personally think we have a good mix at the moment, albeit probably lacking depth in terms of forwards.

People had definitely written McGregor off and he’s shown how premature that was.

I do wonder if SDG could do the same. He’s had very little opportunity thus far, but hasn’t really given Ross any food for thought on his rare appearances.

Newell should think carefully. If there is an offer, it may not last forever. Ross may fancy using that money to fund the signing of Irvine and that would be a fair swap for me.

Ideally Newell gets back to playing and ups his game, alongside more talented colleagues.
Our midfield looks pretty tasty with Scott Allan returning.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 05:34 PM

So, Newells contract?

Hibernian FC are the pinnacle of Newells career and always will be. This is a guy who could not get a game for Rotherham. Happy if he stays, not over fussed if he goes.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 05:37 PM

Not good enough for what? Hes about to be good enough to qualify Hibs for european group stages.

I'm not getting carried away. I've considered him a quality player since Hecky was sacked really.

So if Doidge one on one with keeper, you’re confident he will score? Why was he not a quality player when Heckungbottom was here? He played most weeks.

Andy74

15-02-2021, 05:44 PM

So if Doidge one on one with keeper, you’re confident he will score? Why was he not a quality player when Heckungbottom was here? He played most weeks.

There’s lots of ways to score goals. I’m as confident with him one on one as most strikers really.

Griffiths and Riordan probably much better one on one but wouldn’t fancy either of them with their head.

His record is up there with anyone, including the start he had last year when he went on to score 19 goals after it. And yes, he was still a good player when he wasn’t scoring as many, just as he is now.

I really don’t get the desire to knock Doidge. We very rarely get it right with the bigger striker - we very much have and some folk want rid. Mental.

B.H.F.C

15-02-2021, 05:47 PM

People had definitely written McGregor off and he’s shown how premature that was.

I do wonder if SDG could do the same. He’s had very little opportunity thus far, but hasn’t really given Ross any food for thought on his rare appearances.

Newell should think carefully. If there is an offer, it may not last forever. Ross may fancy using that money to fund the signing of Irvine and that would be a fair swap for me.

Ideally Newell gets back to playing and ups his game, alongside more talented colleagues.
Our midfield looks pretty tasty with Scott Allan returning.

I am one who thought McGregor done. I’m glad I was wrong.

I’d be surprised if Gray could come in and do similar. He’s had that many injuries and not played regularly for so long that it’s hard to see him getting up and down the park. Obviously McGregor doesn’t have to do that which helps him.

B.H.F.C

15-02-2021, 05:59 PM

There’s lots of ways to score goals. I’m as confident with him one on one as most strikers really.

Griffiths and Riordan probably much better one on one but wouldn’t fancy either of them with their head.

His record is up there with anyone, including the start he had last year when he went on to score 19 goals after it. And yes, he was still a good player when he wasn’t scoring as many, just as he is now.

I really don’t get the desire to knock Doidge. We very rarely get it right with the bigger striker - we very much have and some folk want rid. Mental.

Criticism is merited for Doidge this year. He’s not been good. He’s not been as brutal as a few selected posters would have you believe, but he’s not been good.

You need to go back a year to see him score with any regularity really. If he’d scored more goals this season he’d get less criticism. I think it’s possible to recognise that whilst seeing that some other attributes have been useful at times.

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 06:00 PM

So if Doidge one on one with keeper, you’re confident he will score? Why was he not a quality player when Heckungbottom was here? He played most weeks.

No more or less than our other forwards.

He was a quality player then, I just didn't think he was because he wasn't showing it. I'm one of those who is able to change their opinion based on new evidence

JimBHibees

15-02-2021, 06:29 PM

Hibernian FC are the pinnacle of Newells career and always will be. This is a guy who could not get a game for Rotherham. Happy if he stays, not over fussed if he goes.

Any Hibs player you like?

04Sauzee

15-02-2021, 06:35 PM

Hibernian FC are the pinnacle of Newells career and always will be. This is a guy who could not get a game for Rotherham. Happy if he stays, not over fussed if he goes.

Couldn't get a game for Rotherham? Is that true

JimBHibees

15-02-2021, 06:45 PM

Couldn't get a game for Rotherham? Is that true

No it isn't he started over a hundred games in 4 seasons.

04Sauzee

15-02-2021, 06:46 PM

No it isn't he started over a hundred games in 4 seasons.
70+in his last 2 seasons, just wondered why people make up nonsense

JimBHibees

15-02-2021, 06:48 PM

70+in his last 2 seasons, just wondered why people make up nonsense

No idea why.

HendoDelivered

15-02-2021, 06:55 PM

Hibernian FC are the pinnacle of Newells career and always will be. This is a guy who could not get a game for Rotherham. Happy if he stays, not over fussed if he goes.

You’ve had a shocker.

Shrekko

15-02-2021, 07:00 PM

139 league appearances in 4 seasons does not give me the impression that Joe struggled for game time whilst at Rotherham 😁

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:03 PM

You’ve had a shocker.

What? You think Newell will get a better gig than Hibs?

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:03 PM

No idea why.

How many from the bench?

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:06 PM

Any Hibs player you like?

Franck Sauzee, Russell Latapy, Steve Archibald, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton, John Collins, David Murphy etc.

Of the current set of players, which of them fall in to the above category?

Stuart93

15-02-2021, 07:09 PM

Franck Sauzee, Russell Latapy, Steve Archibald, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton, John Collins, David Murphy etc.

Of the current set of players, which of them fall in to the above category?

So you aren’t allowed to like players unless they fall into the hibs legends category?

Christ you must like about 1 player every decade

Lewis Stevenson has achieved more at hibs than any of them by the way😉

HendoDelivered

15-02-2021, 07:14 PM

What? You think Newell will get a better gig than Hibs?

I was meaning the nonsense you spoke about him not getting a game for Rotherham. Look at his apps 👍🏼

J-C

15-02-2021, 07:21 PM

We are 3rd. So he must be good enough. We are still scoring goals.

Yes we are 3rd and I'm happy with that, I still want one of my main strikers having a better scoring ratio, not a lot to ask for is it.

bingo70

15-02-2021, 07:23 PM

I was meaning the nonsense you spoke about him not getting a game for Rotherham. Look at his apps 👍🏼

Tbf to the poster, I remember when he signed for us, Rotherham fans said he was much better coming off the bench, when he started he wasn’t that effective but did a good job when he came off the bench.

I don’t know how many he started so you might be right, my understanding was that he wasn’t holding down a regular starting slot when we signed him though.

Andy74

15-02-2021, 07:32 PM

Yes we are 3rd and I'm happy with that, I still want one of my main strikers having a better scoring ratio, not a lot to ask for is it.

Given he has the best ratio of that type of player since Chris Killen and Mixu then yes, it generally is a lot to ask.

worcesterhibby

15-02-2021, 07:38 PM

Franck Sauzee, Russell Latapy, Steve Archibald, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton, John Collins, David Murphy etc.

Of the current set of players, which of them fall in to the above category?

4 current Hibs players have won major honours for Hibernian. None of the players mentioned above managed that for Hibs.

erin go bragh

15-02-2021, 07:42 PM

4 current Hibs players have won major honours for Hibernian. None of the players mentioned above managed that for Hibs.

Murphy won the league cup with us 👍

007

15-02-2021, 07:43 PM

4 current Hibs players have won major honours for Hibernian. None of the players mentioned above managed that for Hibs.

Don't forget Boyle, he's got a cup winner's medal too.

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 07:44 PM

How many from the bench?

Vast majority starts. You really have had a shocker

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:45 PM

Tbf to the poster, I remember when he signed for us, Rotherham fans said he was much better coming off the bench, when he started he wasn’t that effective but did a good job when he came off the bench.

I don’t know how many he started so you might be right, my understanding was that he wasn’t holding down a regular starting slot when we signed him though.

Why thank you.

My My initial point remains, Joe Newell is lucky to be playing for Hibs. If he was/is to leave, the club he goes to won’t be as big a club as Hibs.

How many players have we seen in the last 10 years go on to bigger things? John McGinn?

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 07:45 PM

Franck Sauzee, Russell Latapy, Steve Archibald, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton, John Collins, David Murphy etc.

Of the current set of players, which of them fall in to the above category?

Lewis, Gray, Hanlon and McGregor are well above all of them aside from Collins and Murphy who both won honors.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:48 PM

Vast majority starts. You really have had a shocker

You’re guessing or can you provide actual stats? If he was such a roaring success at Rotherham ( who won promotion to the championship) why would he end up at Hibs?

I guess all those games he played for Rotherham did not convince them he was worth a better deal?

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 07:48 PM

You’re guessing or can you provide actual stats? If he was such a roaring success at Rotherham ( who won promotion to the championship) why would he end up at Hibs?

I guess all those games he played for Rotherham did not convince them he was worth a better deal?

Yes, I can provide stats. Do you want me to? They make you look a bit silly.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:52 PM

I was meaning the nonsense you spoke about him not getting a game for Rotherham. Look at his apps 👍🏼

Ok, you’re better on the stats for his game time at Rotherham.

If he was to leave, Will he get a better club than Hibs and start every week?

J-C

15-02-2021, 07:53 PM

You’re guessing or can you provide actual stats? If he was such a roaring success at Rotherham ( who won promotion to the championship) why would he end up at Hibs?

I guess all those games he played for Rotherham did not convince them he was worth a better deal?

Rotherham stats.
16/17 39 games 6 as a sub
17/18 48 games 19 as a sub
18/19 40 games 13 as a sub.

MWHIBBIES

15-02-2021, 07:55 PM

Ok, you’re better on the stats for his game time at Rotherham.

If he was to leave, Will he get a better club than Hibs and start every week?

I don't know. That has no bearing whatsoever on his importance to us or his quality. I really do not see why it is relevant.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 07:57 PM

Lewis, Gray, Hanlon and McGregor are well above all of them aside from Collins and Murphy who both won honors.

In your opinion.

I’d rather watch Sauzee & Latapy every day even tho the 4 guys you mentioned are fantastic servants to the club.

CapitalGreen

15-02-2021, 08:00 PM

Ok, you’re better on the stats for his game time at Rotherham.

If he was to leave, Will he get a better club than Hibs and start every week?

What difference does that make to his value to Hibs. Folk were coming out with similar lines when McGeouch was leaving and 2.5 years later we’ve still never adequately replaced what he brought to the team.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 08:07 PM

Rotherham stats.
16/17 39 games 6 as a sub
17/18 48 games 19 as a sub
18/19 40 games 13 as a sub.

Ok I stand corrected. A substantial amount of his games were from the bench.

I’m not having a pop at Joe Newell. If he signs then good, if he leaves, so be it. There will be equally good or better available. Hopefully a fit Scott Allan will take over or perhaps Jackson Irvine? Or we let Joe Newell go and sign the Motherwell lad.

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 08:11 PM

What difference does that make to his value to Hibs. Folk were coming out with similar lines when McGeouch was leaving and 2.5 years later we’ve still never adequately replaced what he brought to the team.

As I said elsewhere, hopefully Scott Allan can step in or maybe Jackson Irvine. Players leave Hibs. That’s the basic fact. I’ll never worry about Joe Newell leaving Hibs.

John Collins leaving = gutted
Franck Sauzee leaving = gutted
John McGinn leaving = gutted
Joe Newell leaving = meh, opportunity for someone else

Andy74

15-02-2021, 08:15 PM

Ok I stand corrected. A substantial amount of his games were from the bench.

I’m not having a pop at Joe Newell. If he signs then good, if he leaves, so be it. There will be equally good or better available. Hopefully a fit Scott Allan will take over or perhaps Jackson Irvine? Or we let Joe Newell go and sign the Motherwell lad.

Newell has been a better player this season than Campbell, who I presume you are talking about.

Newell may chose to leave but we certainly will not be letting him go.

Having to pay nearly £500k for Campbell there would not be much value in that particular ‘swap’.

It is amazing we still think our best players can be replaced just like that.

easty

15-02-2021, 08:17 PM

Newell has been a better player this season than Campbell, who I presume you are talking about.

Newell may chose to leave but we certainly will not be letting him go.

Having to pay nearly £500k for Campbell there would not be much value in that particular ‘swap’.

It is amazing we still think our best players can be replaced just like that.

I don’t read other football teams fans forums, but I sometimes do wonder if they’re all similar to ours. I just have no idea why there are Hibs fans who are so willing to talk down our own players, while at the same time talking up players at other teams who aren’t even good enough for us (not Campbell, who’s obviously a good player).

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 08:28 PM

Newell has been a better player this season than Campbell, who I presume you are talking about.

Newell may chose to leave but we certainly will not be letting him go.

Having to pay nearly £500k for Campbell there would not be much value in that particular ‘swap’.

It is amazing we still think our best players can be replaced just like that.

If Newell wants to head back down south for a better offer, there is nothing the club can do surely?

Surely with Campbell, you speculate to accumulate? Pay £500k in the summer and sell him 2 years later . A bit like the scenario with Nisbet?

J-C

15-02-2021, 08:28 PM

Newell took a bit to settle but Hecky playing him wide right didn't help when it's obvious he's better through the middle. He's a pretty decent player when he does turn up, he cost us nothing and if he leaves so be it, I have no idea what we've offered him, it may be less than what he's on just now due to Covid, although decent he's not irreplaceable, he's a good player for our level.

jeffers

15-02-2021, 08:46 PM

The Modfather

15-02-2021, 08:47 PM

worcesterhibby

15-02-2021, 08:51 PM

Murphy won the league cup with us 👍 of course he did..how could I forget, I was there. Doh !

Fergus52

15-02-2021, 08:55 PM

Not wanting to derail the thread too much but some of the criticism of doidge is OTT.

His one on one finishing is poor and he doesn't look too comfortable dribbling with the ball at his feet, but his work rate, movement, hold up play and Arial ability more than make up for that imo. Think folk saying he has an atrocius first touch are being too harsh as well.

How many mediocre to terrible target men type of strikers have we had over the years? James Collins, kuqi, trakys, matelevicius, Holt etc.

Even when he isn't scoring you can clearly see the quakities he brings to the team, the fluid front three of recent weeks with Murphy and Boyle looked much better when doidge was the number 9 over nisbet.

If he was a consistent finisher no way would he be at hibs, he'd be banging them in in the championship on 15k

loanheadhibby

15-02-2021, 09:12 PM

I don’t read other football teams fans forums, but I sometimes do wonder if they’re all similar to ours. I just have no idea why there are Hibs fans who are so willing to talk down our own players, while at the same time talking up players at other teams who aren’t even good enough for us (not Campbell, who’s obviously a good player).

I don’t frequent them myself but I’m sure many Celtic fans will have various thoughts on their team’s performances and individual players. The Dons website will have plenty to say and Motherwells will be interesting after getting humped from Accies.

To think it’s only Hibs fans who have varying thoughts about the benefits of individual players is very simplistic.

easty

15-02-2021, 09:33 PM

I don’t frequent them myself but I’m sure many Celtic fans will have various thoughts on their team’s performances and individual players. The Dons website will have plenty to say and Motherwells will be interesting after getting humped from Accies.

To think it’s only Hibs fans who have varying thoughts about the benefits of individual players is very simplistic.

That’s not what I said.

I’ve seen Doidge get slated on Hibs.net, then I’ve seen folk say we should be after Bakamba at Killie, or Stewart at Ross County. Hanlon and Porteous getting laid into, then people saying we should go for Guthrie at Livi or Kerr at St Johnstone. Last season Horgan was getting ripped, and there were folk saying we should go for that Durmas boy at St Mirren.

We don’t seem to value the players we have, who have us 3rd in the table, and seem to give praise to players who are far worse options.

JimBHibees

15-02-2021, 09:34 PM

If Newell wants to head back down south for a better offer, there is nothing the club can do surely?

Surely with Campbell, you speculate to accumulate? Pay £500k in the summer and sell him 2 years later . A bit like the scenario with Nisbet?

Personally don't think Campbell is anywhere near as good a player as Newell. 500k for him would be insanity.

easty

15-02-2021, 09:38 PM

Personally don't think Campbell is anywhere near as good a player as Newell. 500k for him would be insanity.

I like Campbell, and would be very happy to get him, but he’s not a £500k player just now.

I’m not even convinced he’s a better player than Greg Docherty.

JimBHibees

15-02-2021, 09:39 PM

I like Campbell, and would be very happy to get him, but he’s not a £500k player just now.

I’m not even convinced he’s a better player than Greg Docherty.

Docherty far better imo. More of an athlete and powerful.

Brightside

16-02-2021, 01:12 PM

Is Campbell not out of contract in summer? why would he be 500k?

CMurdoch

16-02-2021, 01:23 PM

Is Campbell not out of contract in summer? why would he be 500k?

Development fee.
Might be closer to £400k.
Even if Hibs are willing to pay it Campbell will choose to go to the English 2nd tier and hook himself a big fat life changing contract and a cheeky signing on fee into the bargain.

patlowe

16-02-2021, 01:38 PM

When he’s been on it Newell has been excellent, been posted missing in quite a few games though imo and I’m not convinced he’s worthy of being one of our highest earners. Fact is he’s not played in a few weeks and I don’t think we’ve really missed him.

Personally I think we have missed him at times but the other qualities Ross has brought into the squad through Cadden and Irvine have given us a different dimension. When we were scrapping away at St Mirren and Dundee Utd (games we won admittedly!) there were times I felt we were crying out for some composure in the middle of the park.

Since452

16-02-2021, 02:05 PM

When he’s been on it Newell has been excellent, been posted missing in quite a few games though imo and I’m not convinced he’s worthy of being one of our highest earners. Fact is he’s not played in a few weeks and I don’t think we’ve really missed him.

I agree with all of that. Remember reading Rotherham's forum when we signed him and it was almost that word for word. I'd like him to stay as he's a good player but if we're priced out wages wise then so be it.

The 90+2

16-02-2021, 02:38 PM

I like Campbell, and would be very happy to get him, but he’s not a £500k player just now.

I’m not even convinced he’s a better player than Greg Docherty.

Fair assessment mate but Dochetry is gone and out our bracket. Campbell has a lot of potential in the McGinn/McGeaough category, would hate for someone else to take him.

blackpoolhibs

16-02-2021, 03:15 PM

Fair assessment mate but Dochetry is gone and out our bracket. Campbell has a lot of potential in the McGinn/McGeaough category, would hate for someone else to take him.

Is he really though, from the few times i have seen him he's not really stood out at all? :confused:

The 90+2

16-02-2021, 03:35 PM

Is he really though, from the few times i have seen him he's not really stood out at all? :confused:

I really think so. In the way the boy Celtic took the laddie from them.

04Sauzee

16-02-2021, 03:54 PM

Is he really though, from the few times i have seen him he's not really stood out at all? :confused:

He's another one along with Findlay at Kilmarnock who i thought would be great at Hibs but watching them both this season when i have been able to haven't been overly impressed.

Campbell is still very young and played alot of football. Im still sure he will go on and be fairly successful.

JimBHibees

16-02-2021, 03:57 PM

Is he really though, from the few times i have seen him he's not really stood out at all? :confused:

Ditto never been hugely impressed. Think Turnbull made him look better than he is.

basehibby

16-02-2021, 03:58 PM

Joe has been a cracking player for us ever since he got through the rocky start he had when played as a winger. I don't agree with those who hold he's been bang average much of the time - he's been consistently our best midfielder as reflected by his constant presence in the starting lineup until recent injury.

Also I don't agree that he's as good as gone. Hibs is a great club to be at and with (hopefully) Europe on the horizon, there's every chance that Joe could see his immediate future at ER. Everybody and his dog had Martin Boyle sold off to the highest bidder last summer and well ... it didn't happen - did it???

I acknowledge that other clubs can pay a lot more than Hibs and this might turn out to be a big factor - but it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings and she is nowhere near waddling onto the stage just yet - there's a long way to go.

JohnMcM

16-02-2021, 04:25 PM

Heckingbottom made him look a poor player with his tactics.

The difference now is worlds apart now that JR has seen his strengths.

I want him to stay just to see how he and Scott Allan can play off each other and feed Doidge, Boyle and Nisbet. If that can happen the potential is mouth-watering.

B.H.F.C

16-02-2021, 04:26 PM

Also I don't agree that he's as good as gone. Hibs is a great club to be at and with (hopefully) Europe on the horizon, there's every chance that Joe could see his immediate future at ER.

I agree he’s not as good as gone.

He might go and get a few quid extra but seeing folk suggesting he might go and get 4 or 5 times what we can pay (which would be £15-20k a week) is crazy talk IMO. He’s a decent player but I don’t think he’s commanding huge money and I’m not sure he’s getting a better club than Hibs.

1875Sean

16-02-2021, 04:28 PM

Development fee.
Might be closer to £400k.
Even if Hibs are willing to pay it Campbell will choose to go to the English 2nd tier and hook himself a big fat life changing contract and a cheeky signing on fee into the bargain.

No change they will get anywhere near 400k the guys isn’t an international player, played plenty times for under 21s but Cadden got a Scotland cap while at Motherwell and they only got just over 100k for him

Fergus52

16-02-2021, 06:00 PM

Personally don't think Campbell is anywhere near as good a player as Newell. 500k for him would be insanity.

That last game at Fir park he was in Newell's back pocket.

Some folk on here talk about Newell as if he has no defensive nous and can't tackle but he took the ball from Campbell several times that match including a couple big slide tackles. Also dribbled past him several times as well, Campbell couldn't get near him.

Smartie

16-02-2021, 06:01 PM

There were murmurs at the start of the season that we needed to see more from Joe in big games.

He was excellent at Ibrox at Christmas I thought, and we need as many players as possible who are able to stand tall at venues like that.

I really hope he stays.

Fergus52

16-02-2021, 06:02 PM

No change they will get anywhere near 400k the guys isn’t an international player, played plenty times for under 21s but Cadden got a Scotland cap while at Motherwell and they only got just over 100k for him

Cadden went straight to the states no? So they didn't have to pay the full development fee.

His length of time at Motherwell combined with his under 21 caps and amount of first team appearances all drive the development fee up, it'll be about as expensive as it can get in Scotland so 400k seems about right.

Greenbeard

16-02-2021, 06:08 PM

hibbysam

16-02-2021, 06:24 PM

That last game at Fir park he was in Newell's back pocket.

Some folk on here talk about Newell as if he has no defensive nous and can't tackle but he took the ball from Campbell several times that much including a couple big slide tackles. Also dribbled past him that much several times as well, Campbell couldn't get near him.

That’s the bit that really gets on my goat. His positioning defensively is very good, but the most important bit of his defensive ability is on the ball. He keeps the ball moving, looks after it, and recycles it. Too often we are guilty of just leathering the ball back to the opposition which keeps them attacking us, he’s calm and keeps the ball resulting in us spending less time defending.

He’s a class act and while he is replaceable, he’s very difficult to find the right player to replace with which makes it a very big risk in trying to do so.

Even the recent games we were miles off it against st mirren until the sending off. We couldn’t keep the ball against 11 men.

JohnMcM

16-02-2021, 07:23 PM

So if Newell, Allan and Boyle are in your midfield, with Doidge and Nisbet up front, who are you leaving out?

I've said before I don't understand formations and all that sort of stuff. All I'm saying is I would like to see Joe and Scott get a chance to feed Christian, Kevin and Martin.

superfurryhibby

16-02-2021, 09:16 PM

I've said before I don't understand formations and all that sort of stuff. All I'm saying is I would like to see Joe and Scott get a chance to feed Christian, Kevin and Martin.

However, you are very good at the Hibs.Net prediction league and that for me is the main barometer ( the only one that matters) of knowing about football. People gaun oan aboot tactics n’that, a loadae Tom Kite :wink:

I too would love to see Newell, Irvine and a fit Scott Allan in a Hibs midfield.

1875Sean

16-02-2021, 09:29 PM

Cadden went straight to the states no? So they didn't have to pay the full development fee.

His length of time at Motherwell combined with his under 21 caps and amount of first team appearances all drive the development fee up, it'll be about as expensive as it can get in Scotland so 400k seems about right.

Cadden had 2 senior caps and a number of under 21 caps and they wanted 200k when he went to America, I doubt they will get double for that Campbell, he may have more under 21 caps but I am sure when they are a full international player teams can claim more for the development fee

Andy74

16-02-2021, 09:33 PM

Cadden had 2 senior caps and a number of under 21 caps and they wanted 200k when he went to America, I doubt they will get double for that Campbell, he may have more under 21 caps but I am sure when they are a full international player teams can claim more for the development fee
I think it is some kind of set formula which some folks have worked out would be about £400k in Campbell’s case.

Hibbyradge

16-02-2021, 10:46 PM

I think it is some kind of set formula which some folks have worked out would be about £400k in Campbell’s case.

:agree:

It's the word on the pavey.

Iggy Pope

17-02-2021, 12:01 AM

I've said before I don't understand formations and all that sort of stuff. All I'm saying is I would like to see Joe and Scott get a chance to feed Christian, Kevin and Martin.

I love this post.

Fergus52

17-02-2021, 07:00 AM

Cadden had 2 senior caps and a number of under 21 caps and they wanted 200k when he went to America, I doubt they will get double for that Campbell, he may have more under 21 caps but I am sure when they are a full international player teams can claim more for the development fee

The cadden fee wasn't a development fee, which is why it was so low. Teams outside of either Europe or the UK, forget which, don't have to pay them.

offshorehibby

17-02-2021, 08:02 AM

I can see Campbell becoming one of those players who's decent enough but nobody willing to shell out £400k for him. Ends up having to stay at Motherwell till 24. Unless Charleston Battery come in for him :wink:

I'm sure Falkirk had a similar type player a couple of years back.

04Sauzee

17-02-2021, 08:09 AM

jeffers

17-02-2021, 08:09 AM

Iain G

17-02-2021, 09:18 AM

Think it's Sibbald who is now with Livingston

He hasn't travelled very far.

keep the faith

17-02-2021, 09:25 AM

That’s the bit that really gets on my goat. His positioning defensively is very good, but the most important bit of his defensive ability is on the ball. He keeps the ball moving, looks after it, and recycles it. Too often we are guilty of just leathering the ball back to the opposition which keeps them attacking us, he’s calm and keeps the ball resulting in us spending less time defending.

He’s a class act and while he is replaceable, he’s very difficult to find the right player to replace with which makes it a very big risk in trying to do so.

Even the recent games we were miles off it against st mirren until the sending off. We couldn’t keep the ball against 11 men.

Great post. I'm desperate to keep Joe. A real class act and has a lot more dig and aggression than many players who are as gifted as him. The more players like newall, Allan and Irvine who are on the same wavelength will lift us upwards. We need to see our side stabilise and get even better, not continually rebuild so, for me keeping Joe Newall is a real push the boat out job.

Greenbeard

17-02-2021, 09:26 AM

I've said before I don't understand formations and all that sort of stuff. All I'm saying is I would like to see Joe and Scott get a chance to feed Christian, Kevin and Martin.
Good honest answer! I too would like to see it. But not every game. I don't think my heart would survive 5-5 or 6-6 draws every single week!

CMurdoch

17-02-2021, 10:25 AM

Highwayman

17-02-2021, 11:16 AM

Last game had the midfield balanced and match fit but I really want to see if Newell for Gogic is a better blend against the lesser teams.
It would hopefully give us more craft and better use of the ball in those games were we don't need a destroyer.
The final piece in the balance if you will. Only possible problem is Newell has been out for a while so could take a couple of games to get back up to full tilt so it might not be perfect right away.

I’ve seen this in previous posts,about leaving Gogic out against lesser teams.Who exactly are these lesser teams,Ross County,Livingston,St Johnstone etc.Certainly wouldn’t be leaving Gogic out on Saturday against Hamilton Accies.Are they classed as a “lesser team ?
Would agree with you that things have moved on since Newell was injured.The introduction of Cadden and Irvine with their increased energy and work rate has eased the pressure on Gogic and let Murphy play a more flexible role.
Once Newell is fit (whenever that is ) who would drop out for him.Quite understandably JR is not keen on changing a winning side so how does Newell get back in?

Tyler Durden

17-02-2021, 12:14 PM

I’ve seen this in previous posts,about leaving Gogic out against lesser teams.Who exactly are these lesser teams,Ross County,Livingston,St Johnstone etc.Certainly wouldn’t be leaving Gogic out on Saturday against Hamilton Accies.Are they classed as a “lesser team ?
Would agree with you that things have moved on since Newell was injured.The introduction of Cadden and Irvine with their increased energy and work rate has eased the pressure on Gogic and let Murphy play a more flexible role.
Once Newell is fit (whenever that is ) who would drop out for him.Quite understandably JR is not keen on changing a winning side so how does Newell get back in?

If we are playing in Europe next season, we’ll have 2 games a week for months at a time. We need as many good players as we can get.

Having Newell, Irvine, Gogic, Hallberg, Allan, Cadden all as possible central options would be a great squad and gives continuity also.

Then we can focus on strengthening the centre of defence.

CMurdoch

17-02-2021, 12:29 PM

I’ve seen this in previous posts,about leaving Gogic out against lesser teams.Who exactly are these lesser teams,Ross County,Livingston,St Johnstone etc.Certainly wouldn’t be leaving Gogic out on Saturday against Hamilton Accies.Are they classed as a “lesser team ?
Would agree with you that things have moved on since Newell was injured.The introduction of Cadden and Irvine with their increased energy and work rate has eased the pressure on Gogic and let Murphy play a more flexible role.
Once Newell is fit (whenever that is ) who would drop out for him.Quite understandably JR is not keen on changing a winning side so how does Newell get back in?

Ross County, Hamilton and Kilmarnock are the worst 3 teams in the league at the moment and Saturdays game against Hamilton would be ideal to make the Newell for Gogic switch to see how well it works. Alternately, start Gogic on Saturday and bring Newell on after an hour to ease him back in.
Now we have Cadden and Irvine match fit we have a midfielder for every occasion and every task to mix and match as required.
Re Gogic, he needed and has benefitted from the added legs of Irvine and Cadden in the midfield and was unfairly criticised on here in the later part of last year with folk expecting to have fixed our midfield lack of legs on his own and at the same time to provide better quality on the ball which is not his forte.

Fergus52

17-02-2021, 12:39 PM

I’ve seen this in previous posts,about leaving Gogic out against lesser teams.Who exactly are these lesser teams,Ross County,Livingston,St Johnstone etc.Certainly wouldn’t be leaving Gogic out on Saturday against Hamilton Accies.Are they classed as a “lesser team ?
Would agree with you that things have moved on since Newell was injured.The introduction of Cadden and Irvine with their increased energy and work rate has eased the pressure on Gogic and let Murphy play a more flexible role.
Once Newell is fit (whenever that is ) who would drop out for him.Quite understandably JR is not keen on changing a winning side so how does Newell get back in?

Our build up play from deep when Gogic is playing in the number 6 role is painfully bad to watch.

Understand not wanting to change a winning team but I'd definitely have Newell in for Gogic. Don't think he's needed when we are currently playing with 3 centre backs and its not as if Newell and Irvine can't defend.

The win against Aberdeen was great but apart from that we've been terrible to watch while Newell has been injured. When he starts as the deepest midfielder we actually play some nice stuff building up through the midfield with the ball on the deck, when Gogic is the deepest midfielder we can't do that.

CMurdoch

17-02-2021, 12:39 PM

If we are playing in Europe next season, we’ll have 2 games a week for months at a time. We need as many good players as we can get.

Having Newell, Irvine, Gogic, Hallberg, Allan, Cadden all as possible central options would be a great squad and gives continuity also.

Then we can focus on strengthening the centre of defence.

Plus Magennis after a good pre season.
Add a few in the summer at the back and up front and we are ready to go.
Would be useful if we could hold onto Irvine , Newell and Marciano.
Porteous will still be here but Nisbet likely to be away and the cash generated used to cover the new acquisitions and the downturn in season ticket money.

superfurryhibby

17-02-2021, 01:16 PM

Our build up play from deep when Gogic is playing in the number 6 role is painfully bad to watch.

Understand not wanting to change a winning team but I'd definitely have Newell in for Gogic. Don't think he's needed when we are currently playing with 3 centre backs and its not as if Newell and Irvine can't defend.

The win against Aberdeen was great but apart from that we've been terrible to watch while Newell has been injured. When he starts as the deepest midfielder we actually play some nice stuff building up through the midfield with the ball on the deck, when Gogic is the deepest midfielder we can't do that.

I would like to see Newell in for Gogic on Saturday too.

inglisavhibs

17-02-2021, 01:25 PM

Ross County, Hamilton and Kilmarnock are the worst 3 teams in the league at the moment and Saturdays game against Hamilton would be ideal to make the Newell for Gogic switch to see how well it works. Alternately, start Gogic on Saturday and bring Newell on after an hour to ease him back in.
Now we have Cadden and Irvine match fit we have a midfielder for every occasion and every task to mix and match as required.
Re Gogic, he needed and has benefitted from the added legs of Irvine and Cadden in the midfield and was unfairly criticised on here in the later part of last year with folk expecting to have fixed our midfield lack of legs on his own and at the same time to provide better quality on the ball which is not his forte.
Hamilton’s last two results were a much deserved draw against Rangers and a 4-1 win at Motherwell. Hardly one of the worst teams at the moment. Every game is tough and Saturday won’t be any different.

Greenbeard

17-02-2021, 01:42 PM

ahibby

17-02-2021, 01:48 PM

It's been some season for ebbs and flows, us included.

I agree and I see the next five games being epic struggles, not just one way either, I can see us and all those opponents giving it everything. It's going to be interesting and no game is going to be easy. Thankfully Aberdeen are going to come up against exactly the same situation.

CentreLine

17-02-2021, 01:54 PM

Ross County, Hamilton and Kilmarnock are the worst 3 teams in the league at the moment and Saturdays game against Hamilton would be ideal to make the Newell for Gogic switch to see how well it works. Alternately, start Gogic on Saturday and bring Newell on after an hour to ease him back in.
Now we have Cadden and Irvine match fit we have a midfielder for every occasion and every task to mix and match as required.
Re Gogic, he needed and has benefitted from the added legs of Irvine and Cadden in the midfield and was unfairly criticised on here in the later part of last year with folk expecting to have fixed our midfield lack of legs on his own and at the same time to provide better quality on the ball which is not his forte.

Last time out against Hamilton I had Gogic as MOTM. Fir me it was largely due to fact he was played forward of the defensive line and was massively effective, not just at breaking down their action early but also at pushing things forwards. He has been played there a few times since then and I see it as his best role. Given the physical nature of Hamilton I think we would miss him in this game.

Northernhibee

17-02-2021, 02:47 PM

I'd still play Gogic. What Hamilton lack in flair they make up for in work ethic and graft and Gogic will be essential to give our midfield and defence some protection.

Stuart93

17-02-2021, 03:27 PM

I'd still play Gogic. What Hamilton lack in flair they make up for in work ethic and graft and Gogic will be essential to give our midfield and defence some protection.

Aye I agree, depending on who’s out I wouldn’t change the team at all.

CMurdoch

17-02-2021, 04:06 PM

Hamilton’s last two results were a much deserved draw against Rangers and a 4-1 win at Motherwell. Hardly one of the worst teams at the moment. Every game is tough and Saturday won’t be any different.

You can never be certain what a result will be but if you are honest with yourself and say what you see you should be right 8 times out of every ten.
What I see now is a good and balanced Hibs team all over the pitch. If Irvine plays Hibs will almost certainly win.
Hamilton will graft but they face a Hibs team with rock solid centre halves, a powerful running midfield with the unpredictable Murphy on the wing and a focused Boyle waiting to latch onto a through ball from Irvine or Murphy whilst Doidge annoys the hell out of them at both ends of the pitch.
It's taken us a couple of years but all things being equal I think Hibs have at last put a very good team together with the lack of power and legs in midfield finally put right. They won't be roughed up or derailed by Hamilton.

Fergus52

17-02-2021, 04:14 PM

Last time out against Hamilton I had Gogic as MOTM. Fir me it was largely due to fact he was played forward of the defensive line and was massively effective, not just at breaking down their action early but also at pushing things forwards. He has been played there a few times since then and I see it as his best role. Given the physical nature of Hamilton I think we would miss him in this game.

Last time we played Hamilton gogic never played.

Newell was the deepest midfielder and we never gave them a sniff, only 4-0 but could easy have been 6 or 7. We were great to watch that day, mainly due to the technical quality of our midfield controlling the game

hibbysam

17-02-2021, 04:47 PM

I'd still play Gogic. What Hamilton lack in flair they make up for in work ethic and graft and Gogic will be essential to give our midfield and defence some protection.

If they press like they did against Rangers then Gogic is the last player we need. We’d lose the ball constantly on the edge of our box, or we’d be pumping it up the park every time. We need calmness on the ball and someone that can beat said press. That man is Joe Newell. Hamilton aren’t a big physical side that will turn it into a battle.

CentreLine

17-02-2021, 07:51 PM

Last time we played Hamilton gogic never played.

Newell was the deepest midfielder and we never gave them a sniff, only 4-0 but could easy have been 6 or 7. We were great to watch that day, mainly due to the technical quality of our midfield controlling the game

That’s me telt🤣
I’m actually a big fan of Newell too. He was our best player fir a good spell this season. Just think Gogic and Irvine are our best option due Hamilton.