Hibs statement - historical child abuse

[Kano Kirsty]

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/club-statement-2

[hibbysam]

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/club-statement-2

Read bits of the report this morning and the fact Hibs seem to be refusing to admit that beast McCafferty worked for the club is scandalous. Hopefully the victims can get full personal apologies from the clubs and compensated accordingly.

[Keith_M]

Read bits of the report this morning and the fact Hibs seem to be refusing to admit that beast McCafferty worked for the club is scandalous. Hopefully the victims can get full personal apologies from the clubs and compensated accordingly.


Where did you read that?


(genuine question, I haven't been following this)

[jacomo]

Read bits of the report this morning and the fact Hibs seem to be refusing to admit that beast McCafferty worked for the club is scandalous. Hopefully the victims can get full personal apologies from the clubs and compensated accordingly.


Yup, not good enough I’m afraid.

Different era and all that, but Hibs should be making an unequivocal apology for anything the club did - or failed to do - which may have aided those responsible to carrying on abusing young people.

Not impressed.

[hibbysam]

Where did you read that?


(genuine question, I haven't been following this)

In the report itself:

‘E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time. Despite this being widely reported he was apparently then able to secure employment at Hibernian FC as a kitman and thereafter the Review understands he was at Falkirk FC in the same capacity until his retirement. (Hibernian FC and Falkirk FC have confirmed to the Review that they have no existing records pertaining to his employment although Falkirk have confirmed verbally that he was employed there. There is also existing film footage of him working at Hibernian FC).’

Whether there are records or not we all know he worked with the club. The club should have been up front in admitting that and making amends via the report.

[truehibernian]

First and foremost thoughts and prayers have to be for all the victims of the awful abuse committed and the irreparable suffering caused, physically and mentally.

I'd hope - and I'm sure it will happen - that the club undertake a review and investigate the findings. The victims of abuse deserve that at the very least. It's the only way clubs can reflect, review, and improve procedures. It's paramount that children are safe from harm in all walks of life.

I can only say that currently the child protection in place at Hibs is exemplary from having spoken to parents of children currently at the club across all age groups - and Davie Flynn and staff have the utmost regard for child protection and safety for everyone at the club.

[Keith_M]

In the report itself:

‘E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time. Despite this being widely reported he was apparently then able to secure employment at Hibernian FC as a kitman and thereafter the Review understands he was at Falkirk FC in the same capacity until his retirement. (Hibernian FC and Falkirk FC have confirmed to the Review that they have no existing records pertaining to his employment although Falkirk have confirmed verbally that he was employed there. There is also existing film footage of him working at Hibernian FC).’

Whether there are records or not we all know he worked with the club. The club should have been up front in admitting that and making amends via the report.


Cheers

:aok:

[jacomo]

First and foremost thoughts and prayers have to be for all the victims of the awful abuse committed and the irreparable suffering caused, physically and mentally.

I'd hope - and I'm sure it will happen - that the club undertake a review and investigate the findings. The victims of abuse deserve that at the very least. It's the only way clubs can reflect, review, and improve procedures. It's paramount that children are safe from harm in all walks of life.

I can only say that currently the child protection in place at Hibs is exemplary from having spoken to parents of children currently at the club across all age groups - and Davie Flynn and staff have the utmost regard for child protection and safety for everyone at the club.


It should have started with a genuine and unequivocal apology today and we’ve blown it.

This report has not come out of the blue. Hibs have had many months to understand what would come out of it.

[greenginger]

Have there been any complaints about McCafferty whilst he worked at Hibs ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48253520

This article from 2019 says there had been no complaints made during his time at Hibs or Falkirk.

[neil7908]

It should have started with a genuine and unequivocal apology today and we’ve blown it.

This report has not come out of the blue. Hibs have had many months to understand what would come out of it.

Yup. Very, very disappointed.

[truehibernian]

It should have started with a genuine and unequivocal apology today and we’ve blown it.

This report has not come out of the blue. Hibs have had many months to understand what would come out of it.

There will rightly be a lot of emotion today, for the victims especially - but like any historic offences, there needs to be an element of calm and the club need to (in quick time) digest the report/review and then (hopefully) make a more measured and in-depth review and response.

The staff at the club now, including ownership, has changed and were not around at the time of these horrific crimes. All I am suggesting is the club take full cognisance of the report and plan a comprehensive review - I've worked on child protection cases and they are complex, balancing the needs of the victims first and foremost, against investigating individuals who were both involved and either complicit in their inaction or sadly in many cases their neglect to intervene.

I would expect - and I'd want - the club to engage with victims and other partner agencies, including the police, to form a more rigorous and balanced response - I agree Jacamo that an apology (and more) is required, but I'll await what happens in the coming weeks and months before jumping to a conclusion that the club have 'blown it'.

My thoughts are with the victims, always. But I agree wholeheartedly that the club need to come out with a far more meticulous response in the near future.

[BILLYHIBS]

The Gordon Neely case also springs to mind :

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/missed-chance-to-stop-abuser/

[Chuck Rhoades]

Read bits of the report this morning and the fact Hibs seem to be refusing to admit that beast McCafferty worked for the club is scandalous. Hopefully the victims can get full personal apologies from the clubs and compensated accordingly.

Protecting the club against compensation claims from the victims perhaps?

[jacomo]

The Gordon Neely case also springs to mind :

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/missed-chance-to-stop-abuser/


This is just one case and absolutely part of it.

[Smartie]

Very poor statement indeed.

There are voids at Hibs at the moment where the heart and brain should be.

It needs sorted pronto.

[jacomo]

There will rightly be a lot of emotion today, for the victims especially - but like any historic offences, there needs to be an element of calm and the club need to (in quick time) digest the report/review and then (hopefully) make a more measured and in-depth review and response.

The staff at the club now, including ownership, has changed and were not around at the time of these horrific crimes. All I am suggesting is the club take full cognisance of the report and plan a comprehensive review - I've worked on child protection cases and they are complex, balancing the needs of the victims first and foremost, against investigating individuals who were both involved and either complicit in their inaction or sadly in many cases their neglect to intervene.

I would expect - and I'd want - the club to engage with victims and other partner agencies, including the police, to form a more rigorous and balanced response - I agree Jacamo that an apology (and more) is required, but I'll await what happens in the coming weeks and months before jumping to a conclusion that the club have 'blown it'.

My thoughts are with the victims, always. But I agree wholeheartedly that the club need to come out with a far more meticulous response in the near future.


The interim report came out in 2018. I’m really struggling to understand why we have not made a better response today.

[truehibernian]

The interim report came out in 2018. I’m really struggling to understand why we have not made a better response today.

Could be a number of things mate, there could be civil proceedings that have been initiated already, many witnesses (or accused) are dead, there could be dialogue legal or otherwise with victims and surviving witnesses, we really don't know. Who knows, there may be criminal proceedings that mean the club have to be careful how they respond.

I'm not arguing against you, trust me, I want the club to provide a far more comprehensive response - I'm just not (at this stage) jumping to any conclusion one way or the other.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Read bits of the report this morning and the fact Hibs seem to be refusing to admit that beast McCafferty worked for the club is scandalous. Hopefully the victims can get full personal apologies from the clubs and compensated accordingly.


Protecting the club against compensation claims from the victims perhaps?

I'm sure everyone would hope that the club's first thought in this issue is not financial. I honestly don't know enough about the guy or his time at Hibs to comment, but there has to be full transparency regarding his employment by the club. Never mind the money or anything else.

[superfurryhibby]

Protecting the club against compensation claims from the victims perhaps?

Sadly, I reckon that is a big part of it.

With this pervert and the other predator who was at Hibs, I would say there will be laddies who were abused. These were hard core deviants who worked as part of a broad network of deviants.

“Hibernian FC has issued a response to the report published today concluding the independent review of non-recent sexual abuse in Scottish football. Here’s what Hibs said

A spokesman for Hibernian FC said:

“We would reiterate the view we have expressed in the past, commending the courage of all of the survivors who have come forward to raise this issue, and we deeply regret any suffering that those survivors have endured.

“The review has investigated these non-recent allegations with a view to ensuring they are not repeated. The recommendations have been and continue to be acted upon, and at Hibernian we have made child safety and wellbeing a priority. We have appointed a dedicated and experienced Child Wellbeing and Protection Officer who has been in post since October 1, 2018.”

[IncredibleHibee]

Could be a number of things mate, there could be civil proceedings that have been initiated already, many witnesses (or accused) are dead, there could be dialogue legal or otherwise with victims and surviving witnesses


It will almost certainly be this. It's a sad fact of life that this is how the world works. The club will have been advised what to and what not to say.

[superfurryhibby]

“It is understood that there is a widespread perception (within football and outside of it) that, for institutions and organisations, making a public apology would be seen as an admission of ‘liability’ in any possible civil proceedings. This is a regrettable position which has been a real barrier to progress in the past across many institutions affected by non-recent sexual abuse. But, in the opinion of the Independent Review, it signifies a deeper and perhaps more pernicious narrative that those who were abused and who have come forward are doing so with dishonourable intentions or for financial gain. This is contrary to the view of the Independent Review and is a position that requires to be challenged and refuted”.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/7516/independent-review-of-sexual-abuse-in-scottish-football-final-report.pdf

[Peevemor]

In the report itself:

‘E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time. Despite this being widely reported he was apparently then able to secure employment at Hibernian FC as a kitman and thereafter the Review understands he was at Falkirk FC in the same capacity until his retirement. (Hibernian FC and Falkirk FC have confirmed to the Review that they have no existing records pertaining to his employment although Falkirk have confirmed verbally that he was employed there. There is also existing film footage of him working at Hibernian FC).’

Whether there are records or not we all know he worked with the club. The club should have been up front in admitting that and making amends via the report.

I'm going to get stick for defending the club again, but all it says is that Hibs have no record of his employment. They're not denying it but can't provide detail.

If nothing underhand happened while he was at Hibs, why should they apologise?

They've acknowledged the release of the report and confirmed the measures that the club has in place.

I don't see the problem myself.

[Peevemor]

Could be a number of things mate, there could be civil proceedings that have been initiated already, many witnesses (or accused) are dead, there could be dialogue legal or otherwise with victims and surviving witnesses, we really don't know. Who knows, there may be criminal proceedings that mean the club have to be careful how they respond.

I'm not arguing against you, trust me, I want the club to provide a far more comprehensive response - I'm just not (at this stage) jumping to any conclusion one way or the other.If Hibs have nothing to answer to then why should they provide a "comprehensive response"?

If something did happen and there's a possibility of legal action, the club can't say anything.

[hibbysam]

Sadly, I reckon that is a big part of it.

With this pervert and the other predator who was at Hibs, I would say there will be laddies who were abused. These were hard core deviants who worked as part of a broad network of deviants.

“Hibernian FC has issued a response to the report published today concluding the independent review of non-recent sexual abuse in Scottish football. Here’s what Hibs said

A spokesman for Hibernian FC said:

“We would reiterate the view we have expressed in the past, commending the courage of all of the survivors who have come forward to raise this issue, and we deeply regret any suffering that those survivors have endured.

“The review has investigated these non-recent allegations with a view to ensuring they are not repeated. The recommendations have been and continue to be acted upon, and at Hibernian we have made child safety and wellbeing a priority. We have appointed a dedicated and experienced Child Wellbeing and Protection Officer who has been in post since October 1, 2018.”

Having been left alone as a young boy in his company when he was the kitman, I just find myself very fortunate nothing sinister happened with me.

The fact Hibs have released an apology yet have put it on their website and not linked it to Twitter is mystifying. If the clubs failing mean that victims rightly get compensation then suck it up, don’t hide behind it and try and squirm out of it.

We should be fronting it and leading the way. We aren’t the only club to be hit with it, unfortunately their will be hundreds of clubs up and down the country that have been caught up in it.

Wouldn’t say lying, but refusing to admit that he worked with Hibs when hundreds of individuals were employed over the period and know otherwise, and their is evidence to show he did, shows a complete lack of compassion and remorse regardless of who was or wasn’t leading our club.

[hibbysam]

I'm going to get stick for defending the club again, but all it says is that Hibs have no record of his employment. They're not denying it but can't provide detail.

If nothing underhand happened while he was at Hibs, why should they apologise?

They've acknowledged the release of the report and confirmed the measures that the club has in place.

I don't see the problem myself.

They employed him when it was public knowledge that he had been binned by celtic for his behaviour. If you don’t think that deserves an apology to those affected by him then fair enough.

Nobody has come forward and said they were affected at the club, that doesn’t mean nothing happened and it would be wrong to assume so.

You think he just stopped committing offences when he got to Hibs after years of getting away with it?

[truehibernian]

If Hibs have nothing to answer to then why should they provide a "comprehensive response"?

If something did happen and there's a possibility of legal action, the club can't say anything.

Because the review is just out today and the club needs time to fully digest its findings. As I've said, the people at and running the club were not around at the time of these crimes, so its only fair and natural the club takes time to fully consider what's in the report. These are historic offences - the current ownership and other leading people at the club, who had no involvement, may wish to review and investigate - it's what I would do if I was a current CEO or owner of a club. Then, after investigation of the findings, would I be in a better position to provide a comprehensive response.

[hibbysam]

Because the review is just out today and the club needs time to fully digest its findings. As I've said, the people at and running the club were not around at the time of these crimes, so its only fair and natural the club takes time to fully consider what's in the report. These are historic offences - the current ownership and other leading people at the club, who had no involvement, may wish to review and investigate - it's what I would do if I was a current CEO or owner of a club. Then, after investigation of the findings, would I be in a better position to provide a comprehensive response.

The report has been going on for years, you’d be seriously naive not to think they know all about what was going to be in it, especially as the interim report was out 3 years ago.

[ancient hibee]

They employed him when it was public knowledge that he had been binned by celtic for his behaviour. If you don’t think that deserves an apology to those affected by him then fair enough.

Nobody has come forward and said they were affected at the club, that doesn’t mean nothing happened and it would be wrong to assume so.

You think he just stopped committing offences when he got to Hibs after years of getting away with it?

I'm curious. If his behaviour at Celtic was public knowledge why had he not been charged?

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm going to get stick for defending the club again, but all it says is that Hibs have no record of his employment. They're not denying it but can't provide detail.

If nothing underhand happened while he was at Hibs, why should they apologise?

They've acknowledged the release of the report and confirmed the measures that the club has in place.

I don't see the problem myself.

I'm unsure what hibs are supposed to do here. It's not a crime to employ a person, if hibs had employed the person with full knowledge of past incidents and/or that persons specific history then there'd be an issue or if one of the victims had mentioned specific incidents that happened under our roof then that's another story but as far as I'm aware none of that has happened and the only person responsible for that persons actions are the employee at the time.

There won't be a soul at the club who has anything to do with this person and without knowing anything about the details they can't possibly comment on it

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm curious. If his behaviour at Celtic was public knowledge why had he not been charged?

You have to bare in mind that public knowledge in those days didn't travel as far or as quickly as public knowledge does these days. If it turns out to be the case that hibs and Falkirk knew then by all accounts more should be done. Until then there really is not a lot more to be addressed.

[Peevemor]

They employed him when it was public knowledge that he had been binned by celtic for his behaviour. If you don’t think that deserves an apology to those affected by him then fair enough.

Nobody has come forward and said they were affected at the club, that doesn’t mean nothing happened and it would be wrong to assume so.

You think he just stopped committing offences when he got to Hibs after years of getting away with it?Hibs have no apology to make for something McCafferty did while at Celtic.

There hasn't been any suggestion that anything happened while he was at Hibs.

Why should the club apologise for something that, as things stand, didn't happen?

[Alfred E Newman]

They employed him when it was public knowledge that he had been binned by celtic for his behaviour. If you don’t think that deserves an apology to those affected by him then fair enough.

Nobody has come forward and said they were affected at the club, that doesn’t mean nothing happened and it would be wrong to assume so.

You think he just stopped committing offences when he got to Hibs after years of getting away with it?

I would be very surprised if anyone in authority at the club would have sanctioned his employment if they knew he had been dismissed from his previous job for sexual offences against minors.

[truehibernian]

The report has been going on for years, you’d be seriously naive not to think they know all about what was going to be in it, especially as the interim report was out 3 years ago.

Not really, having dealt with victims for many years there are countless reasons victims may not wish to engage or discuss incidents (in full) with the very club who are at the centre of their complaints. As I said, legally, they may have started legal proceedings or are rightly taking counsel and considering it. There are a myriad of reasons that the club (now) may have not known the (full) contents of today's report. There's no doubt whatsoever - as you say - that the club wouldn't have known that they'd be at the epicentre of allegations though, I agree.

I'll reiterate - I'm not going to hang the club for their statement today - but would absolutely hope that moving forward they make every effort to investigate as best they can given the time gone by, and provide the victims a full and comprehensive response, and if that includes compensating them financially, then it's the least they deserve :aok:

[Peevemor]

I'm unsure what hibs are supposed to do here. It's not a crime to employ a person, if hibs had employed the person with full knowledge of past incidents and/or that persons specific history then there'd be an issue or if one of the victims had mentioned specific incidents that happened under our roof then that's another story but as far as I'm aware none of that has happened and the only person responsible for that persons actions are the employee at the time.

There won't be a soul at the club who has anything to do with this person and without knowing anything about the details they can't possibly comment on itThat's exactly how I see it.

I'm fairly certain that if it turns out that abuse did take place at Hibs, then the Club won't hide from it.

[superfurryhibby]

People should read the report. It’s ****in tragic.

“The Review understands that E left Celtic FC (where he was apparently employed as a kitman) when the managers and Board at Celtic FC became aware of allegations concerning his activity in a previous club. Press reports of the time indicate that Celtic FC undertook an internal investigation as a result. If this was the case, then the Review considers this highly appropriate however the Review has been unable to confirm this information.

E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time. Despite this being widely reported he was apparently then able to secure employment at Hibernian FC as a kitman and thereafter the Review understands he was at Falkirk FC in the same capacity until his retirement. (Hibernian FC and Falkirk FC have confirmed to the Review that they have no existing records pertaining to his employment although Falkirk have confirmed verbally that he was employed there. There is also existing film footage of him working at Hibernian FC)”

[Since452]

I'm confused. I thought Hibs were one of the clubs being sued for historical child abuse by victims? Neely was at it was he not? Or is this only about McCafferty?

[Andy74]

Hibs have no apology to make for something McCafferty did while at Celtic.

There hasn't been any suggestion that anything happened while he was at Hibs.

Why should the club apologise for something that, as things stand, didn't happen?

Agree. This will be it from Hibs in this matter. They have no official record of his employment to comment on and no cases they are aware of linked to Hibs.

[superfurryhibby]

Agree. This will be it from Hibs in this matter. They have no official record of his employment to comment on and no cases they are aware of linked to Hibs.

There is evidence that McCafferty was associated with Hibs. Whether the club have any official record of his employment or not.

I do agree that that will be all we hear from Hibs though.


This was what they said about Neely.

“The Review also concludes that it is possible that a number of people in Scottish football had cause for suspicion about D’s alleged activities at the time.

These include former senior staff and board members at Hibernian FC who may have received allegations from parents soon before D left the club to work at Rangers FC (there is no substantive information available to the Review to confirm this).

The Review is unable to confirm that, if such allegations had been received, Rangers FC were informed of these.
Two former senior managers at Rangers FC were apparently provided with a direct allegation (from the parents of X) concerning D, took the allegations seriously and followed this with reasonable steps to deal promptly with the allegations reported to them. This action was commendable. However, the Review is unable to confirm whether this was formally reported to the investigating authorities”

[hibbysam]

I would be very surprised if anyone in authority at the club would have sanctioned his employment if they knew he had been dismissed from his previous job for sexual offences against minors.

The report makes clear it was public knowledge, the club therefore should be doing their due diligence on employees. If they didn’t that shouldn’t excuse them from criticism, in fact it should intensify it.

As for nothing happening under our roof (yet), that’s surely luck rather than judgement considering all his crimes (I think) happened prior to his involvement with Hibs.

[hibbysam]

I'm curious. If his behaviour at Celtic was public knowledge why had he not been charged?

The police were involved but he wasn’t prosecuted at the time.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't know enough about the case to comment on it but that statement from Hibs appears cold. I appreciate there may be reasons why too much can't be said but it lacks anything even resembling empathy.

More generally there appears to have been an endemic issue with paedophiles and abusers gaining access to children and young people that went unchallenged for too long. When you consider that encompassed various Churches, the Scouts and BBs, children's homes, charities and so on it's no surprise that football clubs were involved and I'm not sure any clubs have a moral high ground to take. Thankfully theres far more safeguards in place these days and it seems harder for people to slip through the net.

[hibbysam]

I don't know enough about the case to comment on it but that statement from Hibs appears cold. I appreciate there may be reasons why too much can't be said but it lacks anything even resembling empathy.

More generally there appears to have been an endemic issue with paedophiles and abusers gaining access to children and young people that went unchallenged for too long. When you consider that encompassed various Churches, the Scouts and BBs, children's homes, charities and so on it's no surprise that football clubs were involved and I'm not sure any clubs have a moral high ground to take. Thankfully theres far more safeguards in place these days and it seems harder for people to slip through the net.

Coupled with the support in place to allow victims to come forward confidently now and without prejudice.

[The 90+2]

The worst things thats ever happened in football. **** of the earth.

[jacomo]

I'm going to get stick for defending the club again, but all it says is that Hibs have no record of his employment. They're not denying it but can't provide detail.

If nothing underhand happened while he was at Hibs, why should they apologise?

They've acknowledged the release of the report and confirmed the measures that the club has in place.

I don't see the problem myself.


This report is about more than one individual. It is about a widespread culture at the time, about ignoring clear warning signs of child abuse and pretending it’s not happening.

You may not have a problem with it. But I’m glad that society as a whole deals with it rather better these days.

Your comments are crass and I really think you should reflect on them.

[jacomo]

Agree. This will be it from Hibs in this matter. They have no official record of his employment to comment on and no cases they are aware of linked to Hibs.


Again, this is a far wider issue than one individual employee, but your attitude is the same attitude that allowed these predators to get away with abusing kids for so long.

Re: McCafferty - regardless of the absence of records, there appears to be clear evidence that he was employed by Hibs at some point.

Re: Neely - there are questions to be asked about the circumstances in which he left the club.

There may be others, I’ve not read the full report.

[heid the baw]

I don't know enough about the case to comment on it but that statement from Hibs appears cold. I appreciate there may be reasons why too much can't be said but it lacks anything even resembling empathy.

More generally there appears to have been an endemic issue with paedophiles and abusers gaining access to children and young people that went unchallenged for too long. When you consider that encompassed various Churches, the Scouts and BBs, children's homes, charities and so on it's no surprise that football clubs were involved and I'm not sure any clubs have a moral high ground to take. Thankfully theres far more safeguards in place these days and it seems harder for people to slip through the net.

The fact that so many adults have come forward since Yewtree to disclose abuse as children points exactly to what you have said. These abuses sadly happened in many areas of children's lives back then. Predatory behaviour relies on creating opportunity, planning and usually involves the perpetrator manoeuvring himself into positions of trust and power.
Often when disclosed, the offences were not reported to the police and removing the perpetrator from the organisation was seen as having dealt with the situation. All this did of course was perpetuate the problem. Offenders of this type sought out organisations were rules, supervision ect were lax. A well run school, youth club, sports team, church group would not appeal to them because they would not have the same opportunity. The question is therefore, which football clubs took the safety of children seriously and which were lax. Unless the people in charge at the time elect to tell us, then we will never truly know

[Andy74]

Again, this is a far wider issue than one individual employee, but your attitude is the same attitude that allowed these predators to get away with abusing kids for so long.

Re: McCafferty - regardless of the absence of records, there appears to be clear evidence that he was employed by Hibs at some point.

Re: Neely - there are questions to be asked about the circumstances in which he left the club.

There may be others, I’ve not read the full report.

I don’t think there’s any need for what you’ve said in the first paragraph.

The vital thing here is that we ensure the conditions are such that this can’t happen again. I don’t doubt that everyone at the club now takes this extremely seriously.

I can understand though why so long after the events with no one here from that time that we aren’t saying much more. I think it would be different if there was specific claims being made.

[JimBHibees]

Why would Hibs apologise if nothing was alleged to have happened at Hibs?

[Speedy]

People should read the report. It’s ****in tragic.

“The Review understands that E left Celtic FC (where he was apparently employed as a kitman) when the managers and Board at Celtic FC became aware of allegations concerning his activity in a previous club. Press reports of the time indicate that Celtic FC undertook an internal investigation as a result. If this was the case, then the Review considers this highly appropriate however the Review has been unable to confirm this information.

E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time. Despite this being widely reported he was apparently then able to secure employment at Hibernian FC as a kitman and thereafter the Review understands he was at Falkirk FC in the same capacity until his retirement. (Hibernian FC and Falkirk FC have confirmed to the Review that they have no existing records pertaining to his employment although Falkirk have confirmed verbally that he was employed there. There is also existing film footage of him working at Hibernian FC)”

Do you mean it is tragic from Hibs?

Hard to draw anything from that other than Hibs were asked to confirm if they had records of him working there and they confirmed they didn't have any records.

[hibbysam]

Why would Hibs apologise if nothing was alleged to have happened at Hibs?

For employing the beast in the first place, and for Neely things clearly did happen and were reported to the club at the time. Like a lot of clubs at that time it seems getting rid was the end of it for us, instead of reporting it to the police, where he then went on to reoffend at Rangers.

We’re named twice in a damning report. The least we should be doing is apologising unreservedly to the victims.

[Mr. Wonderful]

For employing the beast in the first place, and for Neely things clearly did happen and were reported to the club at the time. Like a lot of clubs at that time it seems getting rid was the end of it for us, instead of reporting it to the police, where he then went on to reoffend at Rangers.

We’re named twice in a damning report. The least we should be doing is apologising unreservedly to the victims.

And how do you know that's not happened privately already?

[superfurryhibby]

Do you mean it is tragic from Hibs?

Hard to draw anything from that other than Hibs were asked to confirm if they had records of him working there and they confirmed they didn't have any records.

Does it really need reiterating what happened to these boys? Read the report and come back and tell me what you think:aok:

[jacomo]

I don’t think there’s any need for what you’ve said in the first paragraph.

The vital thing here is that we ensure the conditions are such that this can’t happen again. I don’t doubt that everyone at the club now takes this extremely seriously.

I can understand though why so long after the events with no one here from that time that we aren’t saying much more. I think it would be different if there was specific claims being made.


No there is every need, because for decades people decided to look the other way or point to a lack of concrete evidence to justify why they did nothing.

You’ve justified today’s mealy-mouthed weak statement for more or less the same reason.

I’m saddened and more than a little surprised that our club has not drawn a stronger line in the sand today - not because anyone at the club today bears any responsibility for what happened then of course, but because what happened then was wrong and was allowed to happen partly - partly - because our club and other clubs didn’t take strong enough action at the time.

[PolmontHibby]

I am struggling to understand a number of responses on this thread- there are specific allegations against Hibs in the report of rape both within the stadium and at Riccarton.

Having read the report I find the official statement falling well short of what I would have expected.
Recommendation 1 of 97 would be a good place to start, unless already done and I have missed it.

[superfurryhibby]

No there is every need, because for decades people decided to look the other way or point to a lack of concrete evidence to justify why they did nothing.

You’ve justified today’s mealy-mouthed weak statement for more or less the same reason.

I’m saddened and more than a little surprised that our club has not drawn a stronger line in the sand today - not because anyone at the club today bears any responsibility for what happened then of course, but because what happened then was wrong and was allowed to happen partly - partly - because our club and other clubs didn’t take strong enough action at the time.

Well said. We can’t undo the past, but I find it reprehensible that we should try and brush any of this under the carpet. There are many people who have to live with the trauma from these events. For every brave soul who spoke out, there will be many more who didn’t.

[Andy74]

No there is every need, because for decades people decided to look the other way or point to a lack of concrete evidence to justify why they did nothing.

You’ve justified today’s mealy-mouthed weak statement for more or less the same reason.

I’m saddened and more than a little surprised that our club has not drawn a stronger line in the sand today - not because anyone at the club today bears any responsibility for what happened then of course, but because what happened then was wrong and was allowed to happen partly - partly - because our club and other clubs didn’t take strong enough action at the time.

I think your putting together what I’ve said and covering up or looking the other way over child abuse is disgusting but putting that to one side...

I think in reality it is difficult for Hibs to come out and make apologies when they don’t appear to have records of certain employees or any specific complaints about anything happening at Hibs.

It would be pretty empty when they don’t know who they are apologising for or to.

Looks to me like they have expressed sympathy for anyone involved in this and committed to it not being allowed to happen now.

I would expect us to be firmer if there were specific allegations about known Hibs employees whilst at the club. I haven’t read the report I’m going on the suggestions that Hibs have not been able to confirm employment of individuals or any specific allegations.

[Smartie]

I think your putting together what I’ve said and covering up or looking the other way over child abuse is disgusting but putting that to one side...

I think in reality it is difficult for Hibs to come out and make apologies when they don’t appear to have records of certain employees or any specific complaints about anything happening at Hibs.

It would be pretty empty when they don’t know who they are apologising for or to.

Looks to me like they have expressed sympathy for anyone involved in this and committed to it not being allowed to happen now.

I would expect us to be firmer if there were specific allegations about known Hibs employees whilst at the club. I haven’t read the report I’m going on the suggestions that Hibs have not been able to confirm employment of individuals or any specific allegations.

This is a rank rotten cop out (by Hibs, not you).

Over time, paper records are dispensed with. Just because records don't exist doesn't mean that doubt exists over his employment by Hibs. He worked for us all right.

I don't necessarily think Hibs should have immediately jumped in in a way that was way over the top. If we were to be stalling, pausing, examining any evidence of wrongdoing and considering a response then I think that could have been done in a far more tactful manner and I wouldn't have been against that. In fact, I'd have almost certainly have been in favour of it.

Dreadful wrongs have been done that cannot be righted but more damage can still be done to the reputation of the club both amongst our own fans and people further afield. Situations like this require expert handling, not only to behave appropriately towards any victims but to limit brand damage going forward.

I'm a big believer in owning mistakes. This isn't a lukewarm pie or a sponsor washing off a cheap replica top. We're talking about the abuse of children under the care of the club and it doesn't get any more serious than that.

Hibs will need to tread very carefully from here if they don't want to alienate huge numbers of us on this subject.

I hate the tone of the statement and I think it's a disgrace. There are many different ways they could have played it other than the way they did, and they've got a very long way to go to win me back on the subject.

It smacks of people horribly out of their depth and not knowing what they are doing at Hibs.

[JohnM1875]

Folk need to take Hibs away from this situation as we're fans.

If it were any other club I imagine you'd be absolutely slaughtering them.

We employed a beast, after it was probably well known in football circles what had happened at Celtic.

The statement is awful and we should be apologising to anyone who suffered as a result, maybe not for anything that did or didn't happen at Hibs, but because we continued to keep him in employment.

[Jamesie]

I think in reality it is difficult for Hibs to come out and make apologies when they don’t appear to have records of certain employees or any specific complaints about anything happening at Hibs.

It would be pretty empty when they don’t know who they are apologising for or to.


This is where I find myself landing on this as well. I’ve seen elsewhere in the thread the suggestion that the individual being “associated with” the club should be enough to assume him as an employee - it isn’t enough in law though, and if I was sitting in the Easter Road boardroom I’d be extremely hesitant to take for granted the fact that the club employed someone who there appears to be no corporate record or memory of as an employee.

[JohnM1875]

This is where I find myself landing on this as well. I’ve seen elsewhere in the thread the suggestion that the individual being “associated with” the club should be enough to assume him as an employee - it isn’t enough in law though, and if I was sitting in the Easter Road boardroom I’d be extremely hesitant to take for granted the fact that the club employed someone who there appears to be no corporate record or memory of as an employee.

Absolute nonsense.

There's video evidence of him working or at the very least involved with us. Employed on the books or not does that matter? He should be nowhere near us.

We pride ourself on being a community club. Statement is awful. Take responsibility and apologise properly or don't comment at all.

[Brightside]

Apologise. Make it clear that measures are in place so it won’t happen again. Similar has happened in every single area involving young people and adults in authority. It’s disgusting but the main point is ensuring its doesn’t happen again. It’s important now that protection is in place for coaches and children.

[Peevemor]

This report is about more than one individual. It is about a widespread culture at the time, about ignoring clear warning signs of child abuse and pretending it’s not happening.

You may not have a problem with it. But I’m glad that society as a whole deals with it rather better these days.

Your comments are crass and I really think you should reflect on them.

I reflected before making my comments and I'm not going to revisit them.

Abuse of power and confidence is always wrong, regardless of the form it takes or the age of the victims.

I agree that thankfully things have changed and Hibs in their statement confirm the steps taken to ensure a safe environment at the club - better late than never.

I've been teaching kids (boys & girls) music for 35 years, ever since I was barely and adult myself.

I'm a member of an organisation with 200+ members. Around 20% are minors (35-40% under 25), including my own daughters, and we have 8 teachers/instructors (I'm one), both salaried & voluntary. I recently stepped down after 12 years on the committee, 6 as treasurer and having been asked twice to take the presidency of the group.

I'm therefore well aware of the risks involved in any group of mixed sexes and ages where the formation of hierarchies, official or not, is only natural.

I was in the BBs for 6 years, leaving when I was 14 due to rumours/doubts over one of the leaders. He was later jailed for historic child abuse offences. I didn't have to think twice about asking him to leave when he turned up to the wake after my dad's funeral.

I'm offended and angry that anyone might doubt my attitude to this stuff.

However, I still don't see the problem with Hibs statement and don't think the people currently running the club should apologise for something of which they're not even being accused.

[Skol]

I reflected before making my comments and I'm not going to revisit them.

Abuse of power and confidence is always wrong, regardless of the form it takes or the age of the victims.

I agree that thankfully things have changed and Hibs in their statement confirm the steps taken to ensure a safe environment at the club - better late than never.

I've been teaching kids (boys & girls) music for 35 years, ever since I was barely and adult myself.

I'm a member of an organisation with 200+ members. Around 20% are minors (35-40% under 25), including my own daughters, and we have 8 teachers/instructors (I'm one), both salaried & voluntary. I recently stepped down after 12 years on the committee, 6 as treasurer and having been asked twice to take the presidency of the group.

I'm therefore well aware of the risks involved in any group of mixed sexes and ages where the formation of hierarchies, official or not, is only natural.

I was in the BBs for 6 years, leaving when I was 14 due to rumours/doubts over one of the leaders. He was later jailed for historic child abuse offences. I didn't have to think twice about asking him to leave when he turned up to the wake after my dad's funeral.

I'm offended and angry that anyone might doubt my attitude to this stuff.

However, I still don't see the problem with Hibs statement and don't think the people currently running the club should apologise for something of which they're not even being accused.

Part of the challenge is that we are applying today’s standards to a time in the past when things were different.

That said what went on was dreadful and with hindsight some of the abuse could have been prevented if today’s standards had been applied

Back in time I think clubs would not knowingly have employed these people if they knew what was going on. The clubs that did know were just happy to get them off the books and ignore the issue.

That said we should not ignore our responsibilities and while I think I understand why the statement was made it is poorly worded and lacks any understanding or empathy and appears to be saying we have done nothing wrong.

[Peevemor]

Part of the challenge is that we are applying today’s standards to a time in the past when things were different.

That said what went on was dreadful and with hindsight some of the abuse could have been prevented if today’s standards had been applied

Back in time I think clubs would not knowingly have employed these people if they knew what was going on. The clubs that did know were just happy to get them off the books and ignore the issue.

That said we should not ignore our responsibilities and while I think I understand why the statement was made it is poorly worded and lacks any understanding or empathy and appears to be saying we have done nothing wrong.

Will the person that wrote or instructed the statement know if we did anything wrong 20+ years ago? Will they know who appointed the kitman or why, and will they know why he eventually moved on? I don't know what more they're meant to say.

As for Gordon Neely, it's even further back. Daz is the only one of our players even born when Neely left Hibs to join Rangers (and at the time Hibs supporters weren't at all happy about it).

[blackpoolhibs]

Again, this is a far wider issue than one individual employee, but your attitude is the same attitude that allowed these predators to get away with abusing kids for so long.

Re: McCafferty - regardless of the absence of records, there appears to be clear evidence that he was employed by Hibs at some point.

Re: Neely - there are questions to be asked about the circumstances in which he left the club.

There may be others, I’ve not read the full report.

I was there at the time, and knew Neely. He was head hunted by Rangers, Hibs were upset when he left, but he went to Rangers for more money and a bigger job.

I never had any inclination he was into kids, but he did come over as an arrogant twat who seemed at the time a bit of an ******** to a lot of the boys at Edina.

[blackpoolhibs]

For employing the beast in the first place, and for Neely things clearly did happen and were reported to the club at the time. Like a lot of clubs at that time it seems getting rid was the end of it for us, instead of reporting it to the police, where he then went on to reoffend at Rangers.

We’re named twice in a damning report. The least we should be doing is apologising unreservedly to the victims.

I dont know about things being reported to the club, but i remember it well when he left, he was poached by Rangers, and we were upset about it and did not want him to go.

I dont think we got rid of him as you say.

[JimBHibees]

I dont know about things being reported to the club, but i remember it well when he left, he was poached by Rangers, and we were upset about it and did not want him to go.

I dont think we got rid of him as you say.

That was my recollection Rangers were bigging it up as a real coup at the time to get him as per usual.

[hibbysam]

I dont know about things being reported to the club, but i remember it well when he left, he was poached by Rangers, and we were upset about it and did not want him to go.

I dont think we got rid of him as you say.

It’s in the report regarding Neely allegedly being reported to the club by one of the victims. As seems to have happened in most cases back then in all walks of life, it seems to have been ignored in the hope it went away.

[Widhibs]

Tam McManus article from 2016:
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20161208/283656824460491

[blackpoolhibs]

It’s in the report regarding Neely allegedly being reported to the club by one of the victims. As seems to have happened in most cases back then in all walks of life, it seems to have been ignored in the hope it went away.

I hear what you are saying, but surely to god, even Rangers wouldn't knowingly employ a child sex offender and make such a big deal about getting him to the club, unless the report says we just offloaded him and wiped our hands of the problem onto them?

[bigwheel]

Rumours were well known about McCafferty when he was at Hibs ..his “behind his back” nickname from the young players at the time was “peado”. They would shout it from a far at him when he was not looking for a laugh .. I’m not saying that I’m aware of any incidents at our club , but there was a tone and a view of him that was far from healthy even back then, and would be remarkable for the management didn’t have a sense of it ....I hope these days that characters like this are ostracised and identified much earlier in their activities ..

with both Neely (who coached me - not that there was any rumours around at that time) and this guy , there is little we can be proud of of their work with us and how we handled it .

[superfurryhibby]

I hear what you are saying, but surely to god, even Rangers wouldn't knowingly employ a child sex offender and make such a big deal about getting him to the club, unless the report says we just offloaded him and wiped our hands of the problem onto them?

That is one of the implications.

Conversely we took McCafferty in after his departure from Celtic, despite concerns about him being made public prior to his departure.

[hibbysam]

I hear what you are saying, but surely to god, even Rangers wouldn't knowingly employ a child sex offender and make such a big deal about getting him to the club, unless the report says we just offloaded him and wiped our hands of the problem onto them?

Im not sure the report mentions it but it was said when the stuff first came out about Neely that Rangers weren’t informed and it wasn’t public knowledge. Would lend itself to the outcome that Hibs ignored the reports from victims at the time.

[Peevemor]

I hear what you are saying, but surely to god, even Rangers wouldn't knowingly employ a child sex offender and make such a big deal about getting him to the club, unless the report says we just offloaded him and wiped our hands of the problem onto them?

It was a major coup for Hibs to get Neely from Dundee Utd and as has been said, we weren't happy when Rangers poached him.

Scottish football is a small world where everybody knows everybody else yet McCafferty went from Celtic to Hibs to Falkirk. In one photo we can see him celebrating with the rest of the Hibs' bench, including Alex McLeish. Does anyone believe that McLeish would turn a blind eye to his kit man sexually abusing the apprentices? I honestly can't see it.

[hibsbollah]

Part of the challenge is that we are applying today’s standards to a time in the past when things were different.

That said what went on was dreadful and with hindsight some of the abuse could have been prevented if today’s standards had been applied

Back in time I think clubs would not knowingly have employed these people if they knew what was going on. The clubs that did know were just happy to get them off the books and ignore the issue.

That said we should not ignore our responsibilities and while I think I understand why the statement was made it is poorly worded and lacks any understanding or empathy and appears to be saying we have done nothing wrong.

Im not so sure that today standards are all that different. We’re all more familiar with the details of paedophilia because of the way our media is. But abusers will continue to use sport as a way to abuse children. (I see that hotline set up to deal with kids abused by coaches in gymnastics got hundreds of calls in its first few days, it happens across sports, see link below).

The disclosure scheme we have now is something, but it just flags up folk trying to be coaches who have previously been convicted of an offense. Sadly that’s a tiny proportion of the abusers out there. The horrible reality is abuse will be going on right now. More needs to be done.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/12/hotline-set-up-for-gymnasts-alleging-abuse-receives-over-220-calls

[green day]

Tam McManus article from 2016:
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20161208/283656824460491

I remember reading this stuff at the time.

Whoever made the decision to hire him back then should be hanging their head in shame - although, its entirely possible that they may have passed away (I have no idea who would be hiring and firing at that time).

Whatever the motive behind Hibs statement, it could and should have been worded in a better way.

[blackpoolhibs]

It was a major coup for Hibs to get Neely from Dundee Utd and as has been said, we weren't happy when Rangers poached him.

Scottish football is a small world where everybody knows everybody else yet McCafferty went from Celtic to Hibs to Falkirk. In one photo we can see him celebrating with the rest of the Hibs' bench, including Alex McLeish. Does anyone believe that McLeish would turn a blind eye to his kit man sexually abusing the apprentices? I honestly can't see it.

I agree 100% about Neely.:agree:

And as for the rest, thats what i think too, even although times were different in those days, it's not that long ago, and it just does not add up right for me, although i never knew the man at all?

[basehibby]

They employed him when it was public knowledge that he had been binned by celtic for his behaviour. If you don’t think that deserves an apology to those affected by him then fair enough.

Nobody has come forward and said they were affected at the club, that doesn’t mean nothing happened and it would be wrong to assume so.

You think he just stopped committing offences when he got to Hibs after years of getting away with it?


Was it really? So was paedophilia not illegal in the 70s at all? Because you would think that if it was actually public knowledge at the time then there would have been a public outcry re his employment at Hibs.

The reports state that "‘E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time." - it does not state that the reasons for his departure were public knowledge.

I would hope and expect that if the reasons for his departure WERE known at the time then he would not have got the job. It seems likely that the background checking etc used in football at the time left a lot to be desired with casual cash in hand roles being commonplace - but that's a long way away from knowingly employing a paedophile in a position of trust and thereby deliberately putting children at risk as you seem to be asserting.

[superfurryhibby]

It was a major coup for Hibs to get Neely from Dundee Utd and as has been said, we weren't happy when Rangers poached him.

Scottish football is a small world where everybody knows everybody else yet McCafferty went from Celtic to Hibs to Falkirk. In one photo we can see him celebrating with the rest of the Hibs' bench, including Alex McLeish. Does anyone believe that McLeish would turn a blind eye to his kit man sexually abusing the apprentices? I honestly can't see it.

Did you read this?

https://www.pressreader.com/

Are you aware that there were published stories about McCafferty from his time at Celtic?

I’m bowing out of this discussion. Too many people posting without bothering to read what’s been posted previously. Incredible that some folk ( not you) are still trotting out the line that there are no records of McCafferty being employed at Hibs, when we have accounts from former players, photos and film evidence for it.

I would repeat what I’ve said from the start of the thread. READ the report and stop defending the indefensible. Hibs made huge errors and failed to protect children by employing paedophiles at the club.

Also, keep in mind that the report isn’t a definitive publication of all the evidence given to the enquiry, there were nearly 250 contributors. It is highlighting the actions of some notorious predators as examples of what went wrong in football during* the 70’s-90’s

[Peevemor]

Did you read this?

https://www.pressreader.com/

Are you aware that there were published stories about McCafferty from his time at Celtic?

I’m bowing out of this discussion. Too many people posting without bothering to read what’s been posted previously. Incredible that some folk ( not you) are still trotting out the line that there are no records of McCafferty being employed at Hibs, when we have accounts from former players, photos and film evidence for it.

I would repeat what I’ve said from the start of the thread. READ the report and stop defending the indefensible. Hibs made huge errors and failed to protect children by employing paedophiles at the club.

Also, keep in mind that the report isn’t a definitive publication of all the evidence given to the enquiry, there were nearly 250 contributors. It is highlighting the actions of some notorious predators as examples of what went wrong in football during* the 70’s-90’s

I'm bowing out too because I think some people (not you) will misunderstand what I'm saying.

I'm certainly not defending anyone who would knowingly employ child abusers.

I wouldn't defend Hibs if they tried to deny that McCafferty worked at the club - from what I can see they're not, they're only saying that they no longer have the written records of his employment.

Finally, there are no allegations of abuse at Hibs. If any were to be made then I have no doubt that Hibs will do the correct thing in issuing apologies and, more importantly, offering the correct support. As things stand however this isn't the case, so I don't see why people are shouting for an apology or a more detailed statement.

[greenginger]

It was a major coup for Hibs to get Neely from Dundee Utd and as has been said, we weren't happy when Rangers poached him.

Scottish football is a small world where everybody knows everybody else yet McCafferty went from Celtic to Hibs to Falkirk. In one photo we can see him celebrating with the rest of the Hibs' bench, including Alex McLeish. Does anyone believe that McLeish would turn a blind eye to his kit man sexually abusing the apprentices? I honestly can't see it.


When did McCafferty arrive at Hibs ? If it was 1996 that would be the start of Jim Duffy management spell. Also the retiring of long serving club secretary Cecil Graham.

[Peevemor]

When did McCafferty arrive at Hibs ? If it was 1996 that would be the start of Jim Duffy management spell. Also the retiring of long serving club secretary Cecil Graham.

It looks to be around then. I've no idea who would be responsible for hiring a kitman, although I'm fairly certain that a manager could have him moved on if he didn't want him around.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Folk need to take Hibs away from this situation as we're fans.

If it were any other club I imagine you'd be absolutely slaughtering them.

We employed a beast, after it was probably well known in football circles what had happened at Celtic.

The statement is awful and we should be apologising to anyone who suffered as a result, maybe not for anything that did or didn't happen at Hibs, but because we continued to keep him in employment.
Correct. It's a real cop out and leaves a bad taste in my opinion.

[hibbysam]

I'm bowing out too because I think some people (not you) will misunderstand what I'm saying.

I'm certainly not defending anyone who would knowingly employ child abusers.

I wouldn't defend Hibs if they tried to deny that McCafferty worked at the club - from what I can see they're not, they're only saying that they no longer have the written records of his employment.

Finally, there are no allegations of abuse at Hibs. If any were to be made then I have no doubt that Hibs will do the correct thing in issuing apologies and, more importantly, offering the correct support. As things stand however this isn't the case, so I don't see why people are shouting for an apology or a more detailed statement.

There are clear allegations of Neely acting inappropriately at Hibs. Whether it was a coup to get him in and we didn’t want to lose him is irrelevant, all that shows is we turned a blind eye and ignored the reports from the victims.

As for McCafferty, it was reported to the police at the time of his employment with Celtic about his misdemeanours which were not pursued. Not sure why anyone would want to defend the actions, it wasn’t this ownership that made the decisions, however that should make it far easier to apologise for clear faults which led to continued child abuse in football, whether at Hibs or elsewhere.

[hibbysam]

Was it really? So was paedophilia not illegal in the 70s at all? Because you would think that if it was actually public knowledge at the time then there would have been a public outcry re his employment at Hibs.

The reports state that "‘E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time." - it does not state that the reasons for his departure were public knowledge.

I would hope and expect that if the reasons for his departure WERE known at the time then he would not have got the job. It seems likely that the background checking etc used in football at the time left a lot to be desired with casual cash in hand roles being commonplace - but that's a long way away from knowingly employing a paedophile in a position of trust and thereby deliberately putting children at risk as you seem to be asserting.

He had been reported to the police before Hibs employed him for his behaviour, this was all stated in the press (apparently) at the time.

[jacomo]

This is where I find myself landing on this as well. I’ve seen elsewhere in the thread the suggestion that the individual being “associated with” the club should be enough to assume him as an employee - it isn’t enough in law though, and if I was sitting in the Easter Road boardroom I’d be extremely hesitant to take for granted the fact that the club employed someone who there appears to be no corporate record or memory of as an employee.


For the umpteenth time - this report goes way beyond one single individual.

[jacomo]

Was it really? So was paedophilia not illegal in the 70s at all? Because you would think that if it was actually public knowledge at the time then there would have been a public outcry re his employment at Hibs.

The reports state that "‘E’s departure from Celtic FC feature in press reports from the time." - it does not state that the reasons for his departure were public knowledge.

I would hope and expect that if the reasons for his departure WERE known at the time then he would not have got the job. It seems likely that the background checking etc used in football at the time left a lot to be desired with casual cash in hand roles being commonplace - but that's a long way away from knowingly employing a paedophile in a position of trust and thereby deliberately putting children at risk as you seem to be asserting.


To put it in context, in the 80s my PE teacher at school was widely known by the nickname ‘paedo’.

The school nurse (remember them?) had an office down the corridor from the gym, but warned more than one boy not to visit outside recognised hours in case she wasn’t there and they found themselves alone with the PE teacher. She never gave a reason why, but we all could guess...

This was also a time when Jimmy Saville was one of the most famous and successful people on TV, and rock stars publishing memoirs where they used to willingly admit to driving the Rolls Royce to the gates of girls schools at the end of the school day so they could pick up a few underage fans.

Also, let it be said, rampant abuse behind closed doors by uncles, ‘family friends’, priests, you name it...

It seems that everyone knew what was going on but they rarely did anything about it. This is very hard to understand now, but it helps to explain how these abusers got away with it for so long.

Hibs is hardly alone in having to deal with this legacy. Other organisations will have to face up to their lack of action too. But it is high time that we as a club showed some proper contrition and genuine remorse for past mistakes.

Yesterday presented an opportunity to do just that. And we failed.

[Bostonhibby]

I was there at the time, and knew Neely. He was head hunted by Rangers, Hibs were upset when he left, but he went to Rangers for more money and a bigger job.

I never had any inclination he was into kids, but he did come over as an arrogant twat who seemed at the time a bit of an ******** to a lot of the boys at Edina.Can confirm this was certainly the thinking re Neely at the time, old rangers poached him from Hibs.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[hibbysam]

To put it in context, in the 80s my PE teacher at school was widely known by the nickname ‘paedo’.

The school nurse (remember them?) had an office down the corridor from the gym, but warned more than one boy not to visit outside recognised hours in case she wasn’t there and they found themselves alone with the PE teacher. She never gave a reason why, but we all could guess...

This was also a time when Jimmy Saville was one of the most famous and successful people on TV, and rock stars publishing memoirs where they used to willingly admit to driving the Rolls Royce to the gates of girls schools at the end of the school day so they could pick up a few underage fans.

Also, let it be said, rampant abuse behind closed doors by uncles, ‘family friends’, priests, you name it...

It seems that everyone knew what was going on but they rarely did anything about it. This is very hard to understand now, but it helps to explain how these abusers got away with it for so long.

Hibs is hardly alone in having to deal with this legacy. Other organisations will have to face up to their lack of action too. But it is high time that we as a club showed some proper contrition and genuine remorse for past mistakes.

Yesterday presented an opportunity to do just that. And we failed.

Absolutely.

[JohnMcM]

No records held is no excuse. There surely must financial records of employment in a club’s historical accounts.Any questions about who was employed by whom, where and when can be cleared up by the records held by HMRC. Unless of course it was ‘cash in hand’.

jacamo - spot on.

[hibbysam]

No records held is no excuse.

There surely must financial records of employment in a club’s historical accounts.

Any questions about who was employed by whom, where and when can be cleared up by the records held by HMRC.

Unless of course it was ‘cash in hand’.

Wouldnt have thought the kitman who is well known to be working at the club could be cash in hand.

[jacomo]

Im not so sure that today standards are all that different. We’re all more familiar with the details of paedophilia because of the way our media is. But abusers will continue to use sport as a way to abuse children. (I see that hotline set up to deal with kids abused by coaches in gymnastics got hundreds of calls in its first few days, it happens across sports, see link below).

The disclosure scheme we have now is something, but it just flags up folk trying to be coaches who have previously been convicted of an offense. Sadly that’s a tiny proportion of the abusers out there. The horrible reality is abuse will be going on right now. More needs to be done.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/12/hotline-set-up-for-gymnasts-alleging-abuse-receives-over-220-calls


This is true, but at least abuse is being reported now and abusers are being prosecuted.

Ironically, parents are more worried about letting their kids play outside unsupervised today, but they are probably safer now than they were back in the 70s and 80s.

[Peevemor]

No records held is no excuse. There surely must financial records of employment in a club’s historical accounts.Any questions about who was employed by whom, where and when can be cleared up by the records held by HMRC. Unless of course it was ‘cash in hand’.

jacamo - spot on.

Hibs aren't obliged to hold employee records for longer than 3 years.


"Data must not be kept any longer than is necessary for a legitimate purpose and it must not be excessive. The emphasis is on the employer (the data controller) to have systems in place to determine how long the data should be retained and when records should be destroyed."

"Accounting records
Statutory retention period: 3 years for private companies, 6 years for public limited companies.
Statutory authority: Section 221 of the Companies Act 1985 as modified by the Companies Acts 1989 and 2006."

https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/people/hr/keeping-records-factsheet#gref

[jacomo]

Hibs aren't obliged to hold employee records for longer than 3 years.


I thought you were bowing out of this thread?

You really should - your narrow legalistic defence really isn’t cutting it. There is sufficient evidence that Hibs employed people who were sex pests, and didn’t do anything meaningful about it.

[Peevemor]

I thought you were bowing out of this thread?

You really should - your narrow legalistic defence really isn’t cutting it. There is sufficient evidence that Hibs employed people who were sex pests, and didn’t do anything meaningful about it.

I'm not defending anyone - just clearing up a misunderstanding that some people have over how long companies are required to keep records. Hibs haven't denied that McCafferty worked for them - they've simply said that they hold no records.

By all means have a go at my opinions if you want - only I'm not offering any in this instance.

[hibbysam]

I'm not defending anyone - just clearing up a misunderstanding that some people have over how long companies are required to keep records. Hibs haven't denied that McCafferty worked for them - they've simply said that they hold no records.

By all means have a go at my opinions if you want - only I'm not offering any in this instance.

By the same token they don’t seem to have admitted that he did work for us either, which seems to have been the question asked as the report states ‘although their seems to be video evidence’. That line wouldnt be necessary if it was just a case of asking for papers.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hibs aren't obliged to hold employee records for longer than 3 years.



https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/people/hr/keeping-records-factsheet#gref

For employee records, it's 5 in Scotland. (further down that page you linked)

Best practice, though, is a lot longer. Easy to do nowadays, but not in the days of paper records.

[Peevemor]

For employee records, it's 5 in Scotland. (further down that page you linked)

Best practice, though, is a lot longer. Easy to do nowadays, but not in the days of paper records.OK cheers. Did it not used to be 7 years? - that's what I had in mind for some reason.

[CropleyWasGod]

OK cheers. Did it not used to be 7 years? - that's what I had in mind for some reason.

7 is HMRC's own recommendation for accounting records.

But back to the thread.....:agree:

[Keith_M]

I think it's entirely possible that Hibs will come out with a fuller, more reasoned statement at some point, as they normally don't rush into things.

TBH, I feel a lot of sympathy for people in charge of any organisation that has to address historical issues like this, even though nobody in that organisation was around at the time.

I'd imagine everybody currently at Hibs, indeed at most clubs, absolutely deplores abuse of any kind. The only genuinely useful thing they can do is to make sure it doesn't happen now... and I'm not entirely convinced as to what is actually achieved in apologising for mistakes made by other people*.



* Just to clarify: I'm not categorically saying they shouldn't make an apology, as it's entirely their choice as to what they feel is appropriate. It's more to do with what benefit that is to the victims of that abuse.

[gbhibby]

Let's not forget the victims of the abuse by these people. There seems to be plenty of rumours about the abusers at the time which seemed to be ignored or the problem Sent elsewhere. Paedophiles are very clever and calculating as we all know.
Both the statements from Hibs and Partick Thistle are Lawyer speak. Victims deserve an apology. We have learned the lessons of the past and now have rules and protocols in place so this should hopefully never happen again.

Other organisations followed the same patterns of behaviour when confronted with the child abuse rumours. There will be people in the clubs concerned reflecting on what they should have done at the time.

[CB Hibs 68]

It was a massive error of judgment on Hibs part to have employed McCafferty when it appears that it was known that he had left Celtic with serious concerns known about his behaviour.Hibs had and have a duty of care to all the youths on their books so it is hard to understand why he was employed him given his history.Fair enough it was a few years ago but even then society was aware of child sexual abuse.

[blackpoolhibs]

If McCaffery was known to be a sex offender, then we really have no defence at all. Surely anyone even then would not knowingly employ someone who would do such a thing?

:confused:

[Keith_M]

If McCaffery was known to be a sex offender, then we really have no defence at all. Surely anyone even then would not knowingly employ someone who would do such a thing?

:confused:



I think at the point that Hibs employed him, he hadn't (as far as I'm aware) been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes.

The questions raised are more around what would have been known by the person at Hibs that hired him from information available in the media.

It would be an interesting question to put the the person that offered him the job, if we knew who that was.

[gbhibby]

I think at the point that Hibs employed him, he hadn't (as far as I'm aware) been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes.

The questions raised are more around what would have been known by the person at Hibs that hired him from information available in the media.

It would be an interesting question to put the the person that offered him the job, if we knew who that was.
Exactly, the rumours and information seemed to be out there at the time. How far up the chain of command did the decision to appoint that individual go?

[EI255]

Yup, not good enough I’m afraid.

Different era and all that, but Hibs should be making an unequivocal apology for anything the club did - or failed to do - which may have aided those responsible to carrying on abusing young people.

Not impressed.Here we bloody go

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[basehibby]

​
He had been reported to the police before Hibs employed him for his behaviour, this was all stated in the press (apparently) at the time.

Until that "apparently" is shown to be a "definitely" I would say that all the outrage expressed on here amounts to no more than sanctimonious bleating.

[hibbysam]

​

Until that "apparently" is shown to be a "definitely" I would say that all the outrage expressed on here amounts to no more than sanctimonious bleating.

It’s apparently from me seeing as I’ve not seen them myself but the report makes reference to it. Between that beast and Neely, it’s certainly not ‘sanctimonious bleating’ - the club are in the middle of this and shouldn’t be kicking the can down the road.

[basehibby]

I thought you were bowing out of this thread?

You really should - your narrow legalistic defence really isn’t cutting it. There is sufficient evidence that Hibs employed people who were sex pests, and didn’t do anything meaningful about it.


Present it then - I haven't seen it and I've read the thread.

Where are the newspaper reports of the time that show it was "public knowledge" that McCafferty was a paedo?

All I see at the moment is a load of pompous virtue signalling and inuendo.

[A Hi-Bee]

Was McCafferty at E.R. at the same time as that **** Neely?

[Peevemor]

Was McCafferty at E.R. at the same time as that **** Neely?After.

[Monts]

Is there anything to say that Hibs didn't pick up the phone to celtic to see what the script was? Especially it there were rumours in the papers.

Hypothetically, if celtic had wanted to sweep it under the carpet, they probably would've said there was nothing in the rumours.

Rumours don't always fall into the 'no smoke without fire' category. Unfortunately, in hindsight, this one certainly does.

[JohnM1875]

Present it then - I haven't seen it and I've read the thread.

Where are the newspaper reports of the time that show it was "public knowledge" that McCafferty was a paedo?

All I see at the moment is a load of pompous virtue signalling and inuendo.

Come on. It was 'widely reported at the time' the reasons he was sacked from Celtic. Tam McManus states all the players knew he was dodgy and didn't feel he should be employed at Hibs. He's then found guilty of being a beast and abusing at least 27 boys.

You don't need to see it with your own eyes to know Hibs have royally ****ed up by having this guy anywhere near the club. Employed through the books or not, this sicko shouldn't have been anywhere near Hibs after his dismissal by Celtic.

Hibs should be making a proper apology, not that statement that was posted yesterday.

[basehibby]

It’s apparently from me seeing as I’ve not seen them myself but the report makes reference to it. Between that beast and Neely, it’s certainly not ‘sanctimonious bleating’ - the club are in the middle of this and shouldn’t be kicking the can down the road.

Until I've read what was actually in the papers at the time I'll keep my powder dry. Even in the landscape of the late 70s I'd be very surprised if a club like Hibs could have given a job to a known paedophile who had been outed in the papers without causing an enormous and entirely justified stooshie.

I have not read the report but have read the statement from Hibs and don't see anything wrong with it considering that none of the allegations stem from McCafferty's time at Hibs and that the club do not even have in their possession documentary evidence confirming that he was employed by Hibs. The first duty of the directors is looking after the interests of Hibernian FC and making explicit apologies when it is not even clear that there has been any wrongdoing by the club would certainly be abrogating that duty in a reckless and unnecessary fashion.

[jacomo]

Present it then - I haven't seen it and I've read the thread.

Where are the newspaper reports of the time that show it was "public knowledge" that McCafferty was a paedo?

All I see at the moment is a load of pompous virtue signalling and inuendo.


Your post is an embarrassment.

It’s not my responsibility to present anything, and to dismiss those who are dismayed by our club’s reaction as ‘virtue signalling’ is frankly disgusting.

[gbhibby]

If Hearts made the statement Hibs have we would be all over it like a rash.
If Celtic had information about McCaffertys behaviour and chose not to disclose that and say Hibs asked for a reference written or verbal and they chose not to pass on any information of his behaviour they are complicit. Unfortunately there may be no records available to back this up. But in the case of most child abuse organisations tend to act in the same way move the person on or chose to ignore it and hope it goes away especially at that time.

[silverhibee]

Absolute nonsense.

There's video evidence of him working or at the very least involved with us. Employed on the books or not does that matter? He should be nowhere near us.

We pride ourself on being a community club. Statement is awful. Take responsibility and apologise properly or don't comment at all.

He was working for Hibs, they might have been paying him cash and that's why there is no records, I would see him nearly every day at ER, this was when players and younger lads would all get dressed in changing rooms while he was wandering about the place.

If memory serves me right he was involved in a incident in a flat in leith with young boys and soon after that he was gone from Hibs, have tried to google it but can't find anything but it was definitely reported in the press, I would chat to him on occasions as he actually came across as a decent guy, was always surprised that he got a job at Falkirk.

[hibbysam]

Until I've read what was actually in the papers at the time I'll keep my powder dry. Even in the landscape of the late 70s I'd be very surprised if a club like Hibs could have given a job to a known paedophile who had been outed in the papers without causing an enormous and entirely justified stooshie.

I have not read the report but have read the statement from Hibs and don't see anything wrong with it considering that none of the allegations stem from McCafferty's time at Hibs and that the club do not even have in their possession documentary evidence confirming that he was employed by Hibs. The first duty of the directors is looking after the interests of Hibernian FC and making explicit apologies when it is not even clear that there has been any wrongdoing by the club would certainly be abrogating that duty in a reckless and unnecessary fashion.

McCafferty was employed by Hibs. Couldn’t care less about documentary evidence, he was employed by Hibs for the best part of a decade.

Neely there has been complaints of wrongdoing whilst at Hibs.

You can sweep it under the carpet if you like, I’d rather our club was up front and honest regarding the whole situation.

[Peevemor]

McCafferty was employed by Hibs. Couldn’t care less about documentary evidence, he was employed by Hibs for the best part of a decade.

Neely there has been complaints of wrongdoing whilst at Hibs.

You can sweep it under the carpet if you like, I’d rather our club was up front and honest regarding the whole situation.

Does anyone currently at Hibs know the "whole situation"? If they don't (because nobody from those periods is still at the club), what are they meant to say?

[WhileTheChief..]

Don’t know why, but I suspect this thread was started by a Hearts fan. Mischief making at its finest.

[JohnMcM]

Don’t know why, but I suspect this thread was started by a Hearts fan. Mischief making at its finest.

If it was, I take my hat off to him/her/it, the timing was perfect.:agree:

[gbhibby]

Does anyone currently at Hibs know the "whole situation"? If they don't (because nobody from those periods is still at the club), what are they meant to say?
That's pure conjecture. Are you aware of all employees at the club and their length of service.

[Keith_M]

Do you know for a fact that there is nobody at the club at
now, who was at the club at that period of time?


I'd be very interested to hear from anybody that was around at that time, but mostly the people that actually made the decision.

I'd honestly be surprised if there were many people still at Hibs from 25 years ago.


However, I think some people (I'm not saying you) are maybe going over the top a wee bit in their criticism of the current incumbents, who haven't actually done anything wrong.

[Peevemor]

That's pure conjecture. Are you aware of all employees at the club and their length of service.What's this, the High Court?

What are the people currently running the club meant to say, given that they (very probably) don't know exactly what happened?

[silverhibee]

Does anyone currently at Hibs know the "whole situation"? If they don't (because nobody from those periods is still at the club), what are they meant to say?

The only one I can think of would be Tam the kitman, Tam was groundsman at the time and when Mccafferty left I'm sure Tam got the job of kitman, there is plenty ex players who will remember his time at the club, Yogi will know him from his time at Hibs and possibly Falkirk, there is plenty folk to ask, Rod STF McLeish to name a few.

[BroxburnHibee]

The only one I can think of would be Tam the kitman, Tam was groundsman at the time and when Mccafferty left I'm sure Tam got the job of kitman, there is plenty ex players who will remember his time at the club, Yogi will know him from his time at Hibs and possibly Falkirk, there is plenty folk to ask, Rod STF McLeish to name a few.

Pretty sure someone else was kitman when Tam was groundsman. Pat something? his surname escapes me.

[gbhibby]

You are the one that wants people to back up statements with evidence. The people at the club at the moment may have no knowledge of what went on but you cannot assume that there is nobody who has not been with the club for a long time.

[Rumble de Thump]

Are we really to believe that Hibs knowingly hired someone who everyone apparently knew was a paedophile and Hearts fans have waited all these decades to use it to try to point score? It seems so unlikely as to be unbelievable.

[Peevemor]

The only one I can think of would be Tam the kitman, Tam was groundsman at the time and when Mccafferty left I'm sure Tam got the job of kitman, there is plenty ex players who will remember his time at the club, Yogi will know him from his time at Hibs and possibly Falkirk, there is plenty folk to ask, Rod STF McLeish to name a few.There's already been an independent review, surely the people who carried it out should have questioned those who were around? Or maybe they did and found nothing concrete to report?

[scoopyboy]

Not a subject I feel I want to contribute a lot to as it disgusts me.

However if I was running Hibs I'm not sure I would be issuing an apology willy nilly.

Nobody at Easter Road in a position of authority would have been connected with the club at the time and am not sure getting to the truth would be an easy matter now.

Not doubting that Hibs employed the person mentioned but did they know when the gave him the job what he had been up to?

[The 90+2]

Pretty sure someone else was kitman when Tam was groundsman. Pat something? his surname escapes me.


Tam became kitman around 2004.

[gbhibby]

I'd be very interested to hear from anybody that was around at that time, but mostly the people that actually made the decision.

I'd honestly be surprised if there were many people still at Hibs from 25 years ago.


However, I think some people (I'm not saying you) are maybe going over the top a wee bit in their criticism of the current incumbents, who haven't actually done anything wrong.
I think some have left the building recently who were around at the time.
If there are any people out there at clubs mentioned in the report who knew what was going on with these individuals and did nothing, shame on you. I do not think this one will go away anytime soon as there will be a few journalists out there who will probe further.

[The 90+2]

Are we really to believe that Hibs knowingly hired someone who everyone apparently knew was a paedophile and Hearts fans have waited all these decades to use it to try to point score? It seems so unlikely as to be unbelievable.


People at the club would have know. Nobody is that nieve.

[hibbysam]

What's this, the High Court?

What are the people currently running the club meant to say, given that they (very probably) don't know exactly what happened?

‘Sorry’ is a very good start along with not hiding the statement on our website and not putting it on social media.

[jacomo]

Are we really to believe that Hibs knowingly hired someone who everyone apparently knew was a paedophile and Hearts fans have waited all these decades to use it to try to point score? It seems so unlikely as to be unbelievable.


It would be ridiculous. No supporter of any club can use this for point scoring - certainly not Jambos.

The Huns with their 'Big Jock Knew' stuff is really disgusting too, given that their own club is implicated. Oh sorry, I forgot, their club was only formed in 2012.

[jacomo]

Does anyone currently at Hibs know the "whole situation"? If they don't (because nobody from those periods is still at the club), what are they meant to say?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56019232

There's a very strong recommendation here about what we are meant to say, but apparently our club thinks it doesn't apply to us.

[Peevemor]

‘Sorry’ is a very good start along with not hiding the statement on our website and not putting it on social media.Hiding? Jeezo!

[WhileTheChief..]

If it was, I take my hat off to him/her/it, the timing was perfect.:agree:

Yup!

They chucked the hand grenade of the link to the headline then nowhere to be seen and didn’t even pass comment on it themselves.

4 pages of us arguing amongst ourselves follows. Bravo indeed!

[Peevemor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56019232

There's a very strong recommendation here about what we are meant to say, but apparently our club thinks it doesn't apply to us.Hibs have said that they "deeply regret any suffering". If I had been wronged in any way, an official apology from someone who has been asked to do so, and who doesn't even know exactly what he's apologising for, wouldn't interest or placate me in the slightest.

Obviously that's just me.

Anyway, I'm definitely stopping here for this discussion.

If in doubt switch to the default position - outrage and criticism!

[superfurryhibby]

The only one I can think of would be Tam the kitman, Tam was groundsman at the time and when Mccafferty left I'm sure Tam got the job of kitman, there is plenty ex players who will remember his time at the club, Yogi will know him from his time at Hibs and possibly Falkirk, there is plenty folk to ask, Rod STF McLeish to name a few.

Tam McManus certainly remembers McCafferty's time at Hibs

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20161208/283656824460491

[hibbysam]

Hiding? Jeezo!

It is hiding. Every single other statement goes on social media, except this one, why? 99% of our website traffic will go through social media because of something posted, so yes, it is hidden away where folk will need to go looking for it.

[hibbysam]

Hibs have said that they "deeply regret any suffering". If I had been wronged in any way, an official apology from someone who has been asked to do so, and who doesn't even know exactly what he's apologising for, wouldn't interest or placate me in the slightest.

Obviously that's just me.

Anyway, I'm definitely stopping here for this discussion.

If in doubt switch to the default position - outrage and criticism!

If in doubt, defend vigorously. Works both ways.

[Andy74]

It is hiding. Every single other statement goes on social media, except this one, why? 99% of our website traffic will go through social media because of something posted, so yes, it is hidden away where folk will need to go looking for it.

Do you think this one is appropriate to be opened up to the type of comments that would follow on Twitter and Facebook? Keeping it on the website is fairly sensible.

[hibbysam]

Do you think this one is appropriate to be opened up to the type of comments that would follow on Twitter and Facebook? Keeping it on the website is fairly sensible.

You can switch off comments. Makes it pointless and hollow sticking it on the website only.

[Alfred E Newman]

‘Sorry’ is a very good start along with not hiding the statement on our website and not putting it on social media.

Sorry for what exactly? For their predecessors at the club not knowing one of their employees had history?

[hibbysam]

Sorry for what exactly? For their predecessors at the club not knowing one of their employees had history?

Failing to take the reports of Neely acting inappropriately seriously, failing to do sufficient background checks on McCafferty. That would do for starters.

[Andy74]

You can switch off comments. Makes it pointless and hollow sticking it on the website only.

I don’t think where it is published is the main issue in how meaningful or otherwise this is.

[Andy74]

Failing to take the reports of Neely acting inappropriately seriously, failing to do sufficient background checks on McCafferty. That would do for starters.

You are speculating. The current people at the club have to deal with what they have on official record.

[bingo70]

Would an apology not be an admission of guilt and therefore open ourselves up to being sued for it?

It’s a horrible situation and all things considered I’m sure we would love to apologise but without knowing the financial penalty we might just not be able to risk that?

I know the people that suffered should be entitled to compensation and id love for them to be able to get it, the current board at Hibs though will need to have an eye on what potential impact that could have on the club.

Every chance I’m talking pish, I just got the impression the statement the club released was written carefully, probably by the lawyers.

[hibbysam]

I don’t think where it is published is the main issue in how meaningful or otherwise this is.

Of course it is. It’s hardly going to be meaningful if no one sees it. If you don’t come onto a Hibs forum or frequent the Hibs website, would you see it? The answer to that is no. Social media is seen by far more people hence the majority of posts go on social media.

[Pretty Boy]

Would an apology not be an admission of guilt and therefore open ourselves up to being sued for it?

It’s a horrible situation and all things considered I’m sure we would love to apologise but without knowing the financial penalty we might just not be able to risk that?

I know the people that suffered should be entitled to compensation and id love for them to be able to get it, the current board at Hibs though will need to have an eye on what potential impact that could have on the club.

Every chance I’m talking pish, I just got the impression the statement the club released was written carefully, probably by the lawyers.

I think you are spot on.

The failure to apologise is almost certainly based on legal advice. Retrospective apologies are hardly unheard off regardless of whether the current incumbent of a certain position had anything to do with the original incident. Think David Cameron with Hillsborough and Bloody Sunday or Enda Kenny with the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland.

Soemthing obviously went wrong in the recruitment process for McCafferty to end up in the position he did and at least one ex player seems to suggest there were suspicions and/or rumours about him whilst he was at the club.

[greenginger]

Tam McManus certainly remembers McCafferty's time at Hibs

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20161208/283656824460491


Dont think there’s any doubt McCafferty was at the club. I would like to know who brought him in.

I’m only guessing here but if it were back in 1996 when Jim Duffy was manager, McCafferty might have used his Celtic ties to get ex Celt Duffy to give him a job. McCafferty would no doubt spin a tale of how the stories about him were made up and that he had never been charged with anything.

Long serving club secretary Cecil Graham had just retired and the work was being done by STF ‘s secretary Mary McAdam who would know nothing of who McCafferty was. Hibs directors Dougy Crombie, Tom O’Malley etc would be unlikely to know either and it’s not the sort of conversations that happen in other clubs boardrooms on match days.

None of this is any excuse, I’m just trying to fathom out how he got a job at Easter Road in the first place. He should have been punted as soon as anyone in authority at the Club knew of the accusations that had been made against him , irrespective of proof, lack of criminal charges etc.

[scoopyboy]

Failing to take the reports of Neely acting inappropriately seriously, failing to do sufficient background checks on McCafferty. That would do for starters.

Not so sure these things were carried out at that time?

[hibbysam]

Not so sure these things were carried out at that time?

I wouldn’t have a clue due to age, however if not, it’s again reason to apologise and make clear that’s one of the biggest differences between then and now.

[Pretty Boy]

Not so sure these things were carried out at that time?

Disclosure Scotland started early 00s. Not sure what or if there was a predecessor to that.

[jacomo]

Would an apology not be an admission of guilt and therefore open ourselves up to being sued for it?

It’s a horrible situation and all things considered I’m sure we would love to apologise but without knowing the financial penalty we might just not be able to risk that?

I know the people that suffered should be entitled to compensation and id love for them to be able to get it, the current board at Hibs though will need to have an eye on what potential impact that could have on the club.

Every chance I’m talking pish, I just got the impression the statement the club released was written carefully, probably by the lawyers.


I think this is a misnomer and will have very little bearing on any legal action or compensation claim.

[EI255]

All of this is tip of the iceberg stuff. There will be many, many more affected individuals and clubs involved.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[The Tubs]

Disclosure Scotland started early 00s. Not sure what or if there was a predecessor to that.

I think there was next to nothing before Thomas Hamilton. I'm not certain, however.

[Rumble de Thump]

Was anyone abused by this guy while he worked at Hibs?

[jacomo]

Was anyone abused by this guy while he worked at Hibs?


For the thousandth time, this report covers multiple incidents by different people and is not just about one person.

The report has a somewhat odd anonymity thing going on but the answer is... yes, maybe.

[gbhibby]

Disclosure Scotland started early 00s. Not sure what or if there was a predecessor to that.
There was a criminal records check before Disclosure Scotland but don't think that football clubs were obliged to obtain one as part of employment process.

[neil7908]

Does anyone currently at Hibs know the "whole situation"? If they don't (because nobody from those periods is still at the club), what are they meant to say?

That they will investigate it properly and make an effort to find out what happened. There are umpteen posters on this thread who have identified him as working for Hibs, the report from Tam McManus and video evidence. They guy worked for Hibs. For us to cast doubt on this is very poor. We could try and get to the bottom of what happened by interviewing folk around at the time to show we want the truth.

[Keith_M]

Hibs have said that they "deeply regret any suffering". If I had been wronged in any way, an official apology from someone who has been asked to do so, and who doesn't even know exactly what he's apologising for, wouldn't interest or placate me in the slightest.

Obviously that's just me.



It's not just you.

I was making the point earlier that I can't imagine an apology doing much to help an abuse victim... especially from a group of people that weren't even around at the time, are working at a different club from where the abuse took place (at least as far as we know) and are only bowing to public pressure to do so.

What's most important; doing everything you can to make a positive effect on a given issue, or making the right PR statement because of public outrage?


If anyone at the club genuinely feels they want to apologise, then that's fine

[Rumble de Thump]

For the thousandth time, this report covers multiple incidents by different people and is not just about one person.

The report has a somewhat odd anonymity thing going on but the answer is... yes, maybe.

I was only asking about the person who was apparently working at Hibs.

[ancient hibee]

That they will investigate it properly and make an effort to find out what happened. There are umpteen posters on this thread who have identified him as working for Hibs, the report from Tam McManus and video evidence. They guy worked for Hibs. For us to cast doubt on this is very poor. We could try and get to the bottom of what happened by interviewing folk around at the time to show we want the truth.

This report is the result of a full investigation is it not? If it has not got to the truth of what happened it's either not been very well done or if it has come to full conclusions then I don't see what the next step is.Presumably Hibs being named in the report as being in some way involved with the carrying out of criminal acts was as a result of whatever information was available.Will there be anymore?Surely anything available has already been followed up in the production of the report.

[heid the baw]

There was a criminal records check before Disclosure Scotland but don't think that football clubs were obliged to obtain one as part of employment process.

The whole process was a dog's breakfast prior to the Soham murders which demonstrated the failings. The subsequent Bicham report brought about joined up thinking in terms of registering people to work with children and vulnerable people. That said, Scottish football is a small pool and if there were suspicions about these people then they should not have been hired

[jacomo]

I was only asking about the person who was apparently working at Hibs.


There are at least two people named in the report who were working at Hibs.

The allegations concerning one of them and what he did at our club are really nasty. There is less on the other but significant suspicion.

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/JordanC1107/status/1360601021786058753?s=20

Rangers are now banning journalists that have written about their part in the scandal.

[EI255]

https://twitter.com/JordanC1107/status/1360601021786058753?s=20

Rangers are now banning journalists that have written about their part in the scandal.They are feared they get tarnished just like Celtic did.

Running scared. Big time.

Too late.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

They are feared they get tarnished just like Celtic did.

Running scared. Big time.

Too late.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Exactly, i wonder if big Jock (Wallace) knew?

[jacomo]

There will be more coverage like this coming our way...

“Horrific sexual abuse report published and still no apology from cowardly clubs.”

https://theathletic.com/2382492/2021/02/11/horrific-sexual-abuse-report-published-and-still-no-apology-from-cowardly-clubs/?source=freeweeklyemail

I worry that Hibs will now be dragged through the mud and we have brought it on ourselves.

[Andy74]

There will be more coverage like this coming our way...

“Horrific sexual abuse report published and still no apology from cowardly clubs.”

https://theathletic.com/2382492/2021/02/11/horrific-sexual-abuse-report-published-and-still-no-apology-from-cowardly-clubs/?source=freeweeklyemail

I worry that Hibs will now be dragged through the mud and we have brought it on ourselves.

If you are worried about it then don’t lead the charge.

Not sure what there is to be gained by anyone to be going any further on this now.

It is important what we do now. It is important that any individuals who are guilty of offences are dealt with by the law.

[Smartie]

There will be more coverage like this coming our way...

“Horrific sexual abuse report published and still no apology from cowardly clubs.”

https://theathletic.com/2382492/2021/02/11/horrific-sexual-abuse-report-published-and-still-no-apology-from-cowardly-clubs/?source=freeweeklyemail

I worry that Hibs will now be dragged through the mud and we have brought it on ourselves.

This has the potential to seriously tarnish our reputation and I’m gobsmacked Hibs (and other clubs) don’t appear to be more aware of the situation.

Still, as long as we don’t have to pay a penny more than is absolutely necessary to any victims, eh?

[jacomo]

If you are worried about it then don’t lead the charge.

Not sure what there is to be gained by anyone to be going any further on this now.

It is important what we do now. It is important that any individuals who are guilty of offences are dealt with by the law.


Are you seriously pointing the finger at me? Seriously??

Your sense of priorities is messed up.

[PolmontHibby]

Are you seriously pointing the finger at me? Seriously??

Your sense of priorities is messed up.

I agree 100% Jacamo - a number of responses on this thread are to say the least "surprising".

As I said on this thread two days or so ago the official statement fell way below what I would have expected - as I would say the same about a number of entries on this thread.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://twitter.com/JordanC1107/status/1360601021786058753?s=20

Rangers are now banning journalists that have written about their part in the scandal.

What is their part in it?

[Pretty Boy]

Partick Thistle have apologised.

I've been having a look about and under Scots Law it's clear an apology can't be taken as an acceptance of culpability or an admission of guilt so it has no bearing on any compensation claims.

[greenginger]

I
Partick Thistle have apologised.

I've been having a look about and under Scots Law it's clear an apology can't be taken as an acceptance of culpability or an admission of guilt so it has no bearing on any compensation claims.


Could be Ron Gordon with his experiences with law in the USA is resisting issuing an apology.

[jacomo]

I


Could be Ron Gordon with his experiences with law in the USA is resisting issuing an apology.


In which case he seems badly advised.

[greenginger]

In which case he seems badly advised.


He may not be accepting the advice he has been given. I don’t know, do you ?

[jacomo]

He may not be accepting the advice he has been given. I don’t know, do you ?


‘In which case’ synonyms: ‘IF that is the case’ or ‘if that is what has happened’.

Jeez.

[One Day In Time]

None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes with this.

It's a hugely upsetting story for everyone but obviously the victims and their families in particular. I'm disappointed in our statement. We've always been known as a club that does the right thing and we need to apologise for the trauma that those affected have suffered. If and it's a big if, things develop from that and we have to compensate the victims financially then that's what we do. There should be no side stepping our responsibilities.

If this wasn't our club being mentioned we'd be expecting this to happen.

There's an opportunity for us to take the lead on this and do the right thing.

[Keith_M]

None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes with this.

It's a hugely upsetting story for everyone but obviously the victims and their families in particular. I'm disappointed in our statement. We've always been known as a club that does the right thing and we need to apologise for the trauma that those affected have suffered. If and it's a big if, things develop from that and we have to compensate the victims financially then that's what we do. There should be no side stepping our responsibilities.

If this wasn't our club being mentioned we'd be expecting this to happen.

There's an opportunity for us to take the lead on this and do the right thing.


The bit in bold is something that a lot of people posting on this thread need to consider.

As per usual, there's a lot of speculation going on and people coming to conclusions based on nothing but that.

[jacomo]

The bit in bold is something that a lot of people posting on this thread need to consider.

As per usual, there's a lot of speculation going on and people coming to conclusions based on nothing but that.


In what sense?

The key point here is that many of us are dismayed by our clubs response to the report into historic sexual abuse in Scottish football.

Hibs are mentioned repeatedly in the report and some really nasty allegations are attached to our club. One of the report’s specific recommendations is that the clubs involved make a clear and unequivocal apology.

Our club has chosen not to do that.

The reason why they have made this choice are up for debate, but don’t change the fundamental fact that our club has got this very wrong.

Pointing the finger at posters on here - as some have done to me - really is the clearest example of ‘shooting the messenger’... both pointless and wrong-headed.

[gbhibby]

Let's not forget the victims in the whole sordid affair, the young boys. They are what is important not the clubs. Unfortunately the mud will stick.

[Peevemor]

In what sense?

The key point here is that many of us are dismayed by our clubs response to the report into historic sexual abuse in Scottish football.
I haven't seen that many TBH.

[Peevemor]

Let's not forget the victims in the whole sordid affair, the young boys. They are what is important not the clubs.

Correct.

[superfurryhibby]

I haven't seen that many TBH.

Take the blinkers off.

[truehibernian]

In what sense?

The key point here is that many of us are dismayed by our clubs response to the report into historic sexual abuse in Scottish football.

Hibs are mentioned repeatedly in the report and some really nasty allegations are attached to our club. One of the report’s specific recommendations is that the clubs involved make a clear and unequivocal apology.

Our club has chosen not to do that.

The reason why they have made this choice are up for debate, but don’t change the fundamental fact that our club has got this very wrong.

Pointing the finger at posters on here - as some have done to me - really is the clearest example of ‘shooting the messenger’... both pointless and wrong-headed.

You are rightly passionate about this jacamo, and that it commendable. But are you in a position right now to say unequivocally that the club are not working in the background to provide a far more considered response ? For example, and I don't know this one way or another. but who is to say that the club are not trying to reach out and engage with the victims first ?

I'm drawn to the MacPherson Report and the tragic Stephen Lawrence murder as a comparison..........the Met were riddled with corrupt officers with clear indications and witness testimony from officers - one of whom was imprisoned - that some on that original enquiry were complicit with the accused families (one in particular) to pervert justice.........it led to the allegation that the (whole) organisation was institutionally racist. Many years later it took a diligent officer unconnected to the original case (supported by the current Commissioner) to cast a fresh - and more importantly impartial and empathetic eye - over the original investigation, leading to justice (in part) and two men now serving sentences for murder - something previous regimes didn't do due to negligence and arguably (criminal) inaction, and who tried to defend themselves and their officers rather than put the victim and the Lawrence family first. Indeed, the officer who led the enquiry was originally asked to bin and shred the enquiry's original evidence documents.

We have new ownership, staff unconnected to the original crimes and incidents, and they have now been provided the full report. At least give the club time to review it and make their own enquiry and investigation into wrongdoing, which includes engaging with those horribly impacted by these abhorrent crimes.

I hope the club will do much more regarding this report, and in good time, provide everyone with a more detailed response.

[Peevemor]

Take the blinkers off.I'm not the one basing my entire opinion on one club statement.

[Smartie]

Whilst it may be the case that stuff is going on behind the scenes, we can only really comment on what we know - the report and the statement from Hibs - and on the basis of those I think people are correct to feel a bit uneasy (to put it mildly) about our club’s actions to date.

[superfurryhibby]

I'm not the one basing my entire opinion on one club statement.

Have you read the report?

[Peevemor]

Have you read the report?Yes.

[jacomo]

You are rightly passionate about this jacamo, and that it commendable. But are you in a position right now to say unequivocally that the club are not working in the background to provide a far more considered response ? For example, and I don't know this one way or another. but who is to say that the club are not trying to reach out and engage with the victims first ?

I'm drawn to the MacPherson Report and the tragic Stephen Lawrence murder as a comparison..........the Met were riddled with corrupt officers with clear indications and witness testimony from officers - one of whom was imprisoned - that some on that original enquiry were complicit with the accused families (one in particular) to pervert justice.........it led to the allegation that the (whole) organisation was institutionally racist. Many years later it took a diligent officer unconnected to the original case (supported by the current Commissioner) to cast a fresh - and more importantly impartial and empathetic eye - over the original investigation, leading to justice (in part) and two men now serving sentences for murder - something previous regimes didn't do due to negligence and arguably (criminal) inaction, and who tried to defend themselves and their officers rather than put the victim and the Lawrence family first. Indeed, the officer who led the enquiry was originally asked to bin and shred the enquiry's original evidence documents.

We have new ownership, staff unconnected to the original crimes and incidents, and they have now been provided the full report. At least give the club time to review it and make their own enquiry and investigation into wrongdoing, which includes engaging with those horribly impacted by these abhorrent crimes.

I hope the club will do much more regarding this report, and in good time, provide everyone with a more detailed response.


No I am not. And I never claimed to be.

My initial response on here was that our club’s public reaction to this report has fallen far short of what was required. And I stand by that.

I hope things are happening behind the scenes. But frankly, if they were, I think the statement released on Thursday would have been a lot better.

Those on here trying to cast doubt on whether McCafferty was employed by Hibs - or attacking people like me - are so far wide of the mark it is untrue.

I will be generous and put this down to a natural instinct to defend our club from criticism. That is understandable. But, in this context, it’s also wrong.

Incidentally, the Met Police only started to implement real change once they had publicly admitted their failings and apologised to the Lawrence family.

[Peevemor]

And yet you are trying to sow doubt about whether McCafferty had any association with Hibs??

Reprehensible.Show me where I've done that.

If not I await your apology.

[gbhibby]

McCafferty and Neely were on the payroll of our club. These people are known to be very cunning and tend to plan their reprehensible actions. As a society we all knew there were people like this but it was swept under the carpet. Many organisations did not take appropriate action when confronted with rumours and allegations I cannot say what happened at our club at the time but an apology is the least victims should expect. An apology does not admit liability if worded correctly. Sorry seems to be the hardest word.

[matty_f]

And yet you are trying to sow doubt about whether McCafferty had any association with Hibs??

Reprehensible.

He’s never once done that.

[jacomo]

Show me where I've done that.

If not I await your apology.


I apologise, you just got into an arcane discussion about the continued existence of written employment records, so Hibs therefore have no need to confirm he worked for us. This seems a total distraction to me.

However you also said this:


Does anyone believe that McLeish would turn a blind eye to his kit man sexually abusing the apprentices? I honestly can't see it.


This is the wrong attitude to take imo. I’m not saying that McLeish knew anything. But what we do know now is that abusers typically carry on until they are jailed or stopped. We also know that they are often very devious and able to cover up their crimes. If Hibs employed known abusers, the presumption must be that they presented a clear risk while here.

We can’t wish this away or think that he somehow became a magically reformed character when he became our kit man.

[truehibernian]

No I am not. And I never claimed to be.

My initial response on here was that our club’s public reaction to this report has fallen far short of what was required. And I stand by that.

I hope things are happening behind the scenes. But frankly, if they were, I think the statement released on Thursday would have been a lot better.

Those on here trying to cast doubt on whether McCafferty was employed by Hibs - or attacking people like me - are so far wide of the mark it is untrue.

I will be generous and put this down to a natural instinct to defend our club from criticism. That is understandable. But, in this context, it’s also wrong.

Incidentally, the Met Police only started to implement real change once they had publicly admitted their failings and apologised to the Lawrence family.

I'm with you completely on there being no doubt both had employment and involvement at Hibs.

It's maybe something that Kieran will take back to the club (fans concern at the statement, any work being done around the crimes/report's findings, etc) ?

I do hope that the club are trying to engage the victims - for me that would be a failing if we've not. The crimes happened under the banner of the club, so even though staff and owners have changed I would like to think we would have duty of care for them and offer as much support as possible (in every way of support).

Off topic jacamo but The Met and all UK police forces only made positive organisational change after the Macpherson report was published in 1999 and implementing the recommendations from that report. The first public apology from the Met (to the family) came 5 years after the murder in 1998 (the cynic would say they only made it after the public enquiry was announced the year before that (1997) and the enquiry was due to start the very same time they issued that apology (1998)) - sickening even then that that it took so long - and financial compensation was 2 years later as part of a settlement where the Met even then tried to absolve themselves from blame (2000). Justice (in part) and a very real and transparent apology came some 19 years after the tragic crime (2012).

In child protection, you could also argue that it was only when Soham happened and the Bichard report came out in 2003/4, that chronic failings in child protection across all sectors were exposed - and as such, we now work to much higher standards and far better information sharing protocols to prevent any person becoming exposed to the risk of harm - and preventing people deemed high risk working or being employed with children and young people.

The Macpherson report is as fascinating a read as it is tragic, devastating and infuriating that immoral people like that worked/work within an organisation.

[basehibby]

This has the potential to seriously tarnish our reputation and I’m gobsmacked Hibs (and other clubs) don’t appear to be more aware of the situation.

Still, as long as we don’t have to pay a penny more than is absolutely necessary to any victims, eh?

We don't have any clue about the possible practical repurcusions of this scandal.

If, for example, the issuing of an emphatic unconditional apology were to be interpretted legally as an admission of guilt and resulted directly in compensation awards that were to bankrupt the club - would you be perfectly happy for that to go ahead then? Regardless of findings of internal investigations and the establishment of actual blame? No questions asked?

[Pretty Boy]

We don't have any clue about the possible practical repurcusions of this scandal.

If, for example, the issuing of an emphatic unconditional apology were to be interpretted legally as an admission of guilt and resulted directly in compensation awards that were to bankrupt the club - would you be perfectly happy for that to go ahead then? Regardless of findings of internal investigations and the establishment of actual blame? No questions asked?

The Apologies Act (Scotland) covers that.

An apology is a 'statement of sorrow or regret that does not of itself amount to an admission of negligence or a breach of statutory duty.'

It's inadmissible as evidence of liability in civil proceedings.

[truehibernian]

The Apologies Act (Scotland) covers that.

An apology is a 'statement of sorrow or regret that does not of itself amount to an admission of negligence or a breach of statutory duty.'

It's inadmissible as evidence of liability in civil proceedings.

I think (successful) civil proceedings and liability / compensation will be near impossible for the victims PB due to a number of reasons.

I do hope that the club are making meaningful attempts to engage victims however.

What's your thoughts on things as they stand ?

I can only comment on the here and now and what the club have in place these days and have to say the child and adult protection in place is excellent. The club do many great things in the community and society, particularly around mental health at the moment. Hence it gives me confidence that the club are not going to brush this report away, nor am I going to hang my ultimate opinion on last week's statement.

It's a very emotive subject, just hope posters don't lose it with each other and respect each other's opinion. Let's see what happens moving forward and again, reiterating, thoughts are with the victims affected across all clubs.

[Pretty Boy]

I think (successful) civil proceedings and liability / compensation will be near impossible for the victims PB due to a number of reasons.

I do hope that the club are making meaningful attempts to engage victims however.

What's your thoughts on things as they stand ?

I can only comment on the here and now and what the club have in place these days and have to say the child and adult protection in place is excellent. The club do many great things in the community and society, particularly around mental health at the moment. Hence it gives me confidence that the club are not going to brush this report away, nor am I going to hang my ultimate opinion on last week's statement.

It's a very emotive subject, just hope posters don't lose it with each other and respect each other's opinion. Let's see what happens moving forward and again, reiterating, thoughts are with the victims affected across all clubs.

I didn't like the statement but I can understand why it was necessary to get something out quickly. Hopefully there is a bit of reflection going on behind the scenes and something more substantive will be coming. I don't think an apology will make any victims feel any better but we were part of a catalogue of failures that allowed systemic abuse and an apology is the right thing to do.

I'm 100% confident everything at the club is watertight these days and no such failing exist. Too late for some but ultimately the most important thing for the present and future.

[Peevemor]

Does the manager normally have a say in who the kitman is?I've no idea, but I'd imagine that if he didn't like someone he could get them emptied.

At very least he'd decide who gets on the bench.

[truehibernian]

I didn't like the statement but I can understand why it was necessary to get something out quickly. Hopefully there is a bit of reflection going on behind the scenes and something more substantive will be coming. I don't think an apology will make any victims feel any better but we were part of a catalogue of failures that allowed systemic abuse and an apology is the right thing to do.

I'm 100% confident everything at the club is watertight these days and no such failing exist. Too late for some but ultimately the most important thing for the present and future.

Sums up where I am too have to say :aok: albeit I still don't think last week's initial statement was meriting of such early criticism.

[HNA11]

Can we please try and keep this thread civil and treat the subject matter with the respect it deserves.

If there are personal issues to be resolved then perhaps it's time to take a step back and reconsider if this thread is the best place to do that.

There is no excuse for personal attacks on any thread but it's even more inappropriate on one such as this.

[hibbysam]

Can we please try and keep this thread civil and treat the subject matter with the respect it deserves.

If there are personal issues to be resolved then perhaps it's time to take a step back and reconsider if this thread is the best place to do that.

There is no excuse for personal attacks on any thread but it's even more inappropriate on one such as this.

You’ve deleted my post which asks a straight forward question, no insults, no abuse.

[HNA11]

You’ve deleted my post which asks a straight forward question, no insults, no abuse.

Posts that quoted other posts were also deleted.

[hibbysam]

Posts that quoted other posts were also deleted.

Makes sense, apologies.

[gbhibby]

Can we please try and keep this thread civil and treat the subject matter with the respect it deserves.

If there are personal issues to be resolved then perhaps it's time to take a step back and reconsider if this thread is the best place to do that.

There is no excuse for personal attacks on any thread but it's even more inappropriate on one such as this.
I am surprised you deleted my post which really was saying much the same as you. But if that's your decision fine.
PS Was typing this as you posted your reasoning so no problem.

[basehibby]

The Apologies Act (Scotland) covers that.

An apology is a 'statement of sorrow or regret that does not of itself amount to an admission of negligence or a breach of statutory duty.'

It's inadmissible as evidence of liability in civil proceedings.


The way I'm reading it that's exactly what the club statement seeks to do - it doesn't directly address anything right enough but certainly expresses regret - while confirming the club's full commitment to high standards of child protection in the here and now. It comes across as a pre-prepared statement prepared in the knowledge something would have to be said without knowing the specifics of what it would be responding to.

I would hope that there would be some investigation going on within the club as to the specific circumstances of McCafferty's employment and any other aspects of the report involving Hibernian FC so that a more detailed statement can be made down the line.

For the time being there is nothing wrong with it.

[Andy74]

The way I'm reading it that's exactly what the club statement seeks to do - it doesn't directly address anything right enough but certainly expresses regret - while confirming the club's full commitment to high standards of child protection in the here and now. It comes across as a pre-prepared statement prepared in the knowledge something would have to be said without knowing the specifics of what it would be responding to.

I would hope that there would be some investigation going on within the club as to the specific circumstances of McCafferty's employment and any other aspects of the report involving Hibernian FC so that a more detailed statement can be made down the line.

For the time being there is nothing wrong with it.

Hasn't there now been the detailed report?

I think that would be the end of it for Hibs unless there are any further details and specific accusations against employees during their time at Hibs.

[Future17]

For those following the Chelsea case, today's submissions by the pursuers might help explain Hibs' position.