A leader

[Weegreenman]

I still think we are lacking a right good leader/captain

We seem to still have a bit of that boy band frailty about us. Certainly I’m never confident about our defensive side.

If we go a goal up, I always think we’ll need two more to be safe.
I’m not having a go at our defence by any means, defending starts from the front.
Maybe our game play/ mentality needs to be better?
Anyone else agree?

[Northernhibee]

I still think we are lacking a right good leader/captain

We seem to still have a bit of that boy band frailty about us. Certainly I’m never confident about our defensive side.

If we go a goal up, I always think we’ll need two more to be safe.
I’m not having a go at our defence by any means, defending starts from the front.
Maybe our game play/ mentality needs to be better?
Anyone else agree?

God that's a tedious phrase.

I don't fully agree, Porteous, McGregor, Hanlon, Gogic, McGinn all show leadership in different ways. The way we started the season was to play almost completely as a counter attacking team which we did to great effect - the 4-1 victory against Livi being a key example as well as the 2-2 draw vs Rangers. We went several games without conceding from open play and were savage on the counter attack at times.

Since then I think teams have sussed us out a bit and we need to come out a bit more to fashion opportunities, we seem to have had a lot of teams happy to sit in against us, forcing our hand. This leads to us conceding a few more goals. Teams also double up on Murphy and Boyle now forcing McGinn and Doig forward more to be able to help them out which naturally leaves a gap.

Worth remembering that only Celtic and The The's have conceded less than us since Jack Ross took over.

[Since452]

I still think we are lacking a right good leader/captain

We seem to still have a bit of that boy band frailty about us. Certainly I’m never confident about our defensive side.

If we go a goal up, I always think we’ll need two more to be safe.
I’m not having a go at our defence by any means, defending starts from the front.
Maybe our game play/ mentality needs to be better?
Anyone else agree?

Tend to agree and had been saying the same myself but the last three performances have given me cause for optimism. Big Darren has definitely made a difference but I've also noticed players bollocking each other which is absolutely brilliant to see. I accused us of being too nice but think that is changing. We made it more uncomfortable than was needed to last night by pushing for a 3rd goal. That's the difference between us and say Aberdeen who, if they go a goal up, the game is as good as won for them. They are a few seasons of coaching ahead of us though.

[Weegreenman]

God that's a tedious phrase.

I don't fully agree, Porteous, McGregor, Hanlon, Gogic, McGinn all show leadership in different ways. The way we started the season was to play almost completely as a counter attacking team which we did to great effect - the 4-1 victory against Livi being a key example as well as the 2-2 draw vs Rangers. We went several games without conceding from open play and were savage on the counter attack at times.

Since then I think teams have sussed us out a bit and we need to come out a bit more to fashion opportunities, we seem to have had a lot of teams happy to sit in against us, forcing our hand. This leads to us conceding a few more goals. Teams also double up on Murphy and Boyle now forcing McGinn and Doig forward more to be able to help them out which naturally leaves a gap.

Worth remembering that only Celtic and The The's have conceded less than us since Jack Ross took over.

So are you ever confident we’ll not concede when we go a goal up?
Is it a tactical thing?

[blackpoolhibs]

So are you ever confident we’ll not concede when we go a goal up?
Is it a tactical thing?

When was this mythical time where we were all confident we'd not lose a goal or two, whatever the score was?

[Northernhibee]

So are you ever confident we’ll not concede when we go a goal up?
Is it a tactical thing?

Is any team ever confident that they won't concede in a game? All teams concede goals. Most teams in the league don't concede as few goals we do.

One thing that struck me about McGinn last night is that along with Connor Goldson he has played the joint most amount of minutes in the league. I do wonder if he's liable to being caught by a ball over the top due to fatigue. If Cadden could play wing back or even Boyle for a game or two to give him a rest, I think that may do a lot of good. Much as giving Porto a rest and Hanlon a rest by bringing in McGregor has worked, I think that may be required soon too.

But it's noticeable how much more common it is to see McGinn or Doig belting forward to support higher up the pitch as teams know where our attacks come from in the most part and where Doig has had Stevenson to rotate with him, McGinn hasn't had that. Hopefully Cadden may be able to provide that.

We've had a smaller squad this year and although that's got the upside that it's allowed more quality to come in at a difficult time, it's left us a little vulnerable at this time of year with plenty of midweek games on heavy pitches. Add injuries to that to some key players and it all adds up.

I expect that we'll be in a good place to finish the league in a strong manner.

[Weegreenman]

Tend to agree and had been saying the same myself but the last three performances have given me cause for optimism. Big Darren has definitely made a difference but I've also noticed players bollocking each other which is absolutely brilliant to see. I accused us of being too nice but think that is changing. We made it more uncomfortable than was needed to last night by pushing for a 3rd goal. That's the difference between us and say Aberdeen who, if they go a goal up, the game is as good as won for them. They are a few seasons of coaching ahead of us though.

Agree regards big Daz, absolutely love his style. Maybe we should be adopting that Aberdeen type mentality instead of constantly pushing for more goals.
Keeping good possession is another one of my bug bears. We seem struggle to it, especially under any kind of pressure.
I’d like to see us improve in those departments.

[NC1875]

I think Daz coming in and being a lot more vocal has probably helped the team and spurred them onto being more vocal with each other as well.

[Weegreenman]

Is any team ever confident that they won't concede in a game? All teams concede goals. Most teams in the league don't concede as few goals we do.

One thing that struck me about McGinn last night is that along with Connor Goldson he has played the joint most amount of minutes in the league. I do wonder if he's liable to being caught by a ball over the top due to fatigue. If Cadden could play wing back or even Boyle for a game or two to give him a rest, I think that may do a lot of good. Much as giving Porto a rest and Hanlon a rest by bringing in McGregor has worked, I think that may be required soon too.

But it's noticeable how much more common it is to see McGinn or Doig belting forward to support higher up the pitch as teams know where our attacks come from in the most part and where Doig has had Stevenson to rotate with him, McGinn hasn't had that. Hopefully Cadden may be able to provide that.

We've had a smaller squad this year and although that's got the upside that it's allowed more quality to come in at a difficult time, it's left us a little vulnerable at this time of year with plenty of midweek games on heavy pitches. Add injuries to that to some key players and it all adds up.

I expect that we'll be in a good place to finish the league in a strong manner.

Ye I hear what your saying regards McGinn. That was certainly a factor in losing the goal last night.
Again, maybe when we’re two nil up, we should be thinking about possession, rather than allowing our fullbacks to maraud forward on a whim when there’s absolutely no need.
Game management definitely needs to be better and I hope they learn a vital lesson from that.

[Weegreenman]

I think Daz coming in and being a lot more vocal has probably helped the team and spurred them onto being more vocal with each other as well.

Love the fella. We could have done with a change of tactic last night though but we just kept plugging away, sending our fullbacks forward and leaving bog gaps.
Gameplay needs to be better though.

[basehibby]

I still think we are lacking a right good leader/captain

We seem to still have a bit of that boy band frailty about us. Certainly I’m never confident about our defensive side.

If we go a goal up, I always think we’ll need two more to be safe.
I’m not having a go at our defence by any means, defending starts from the front.
Maybe our game play/ mentality needs to be better?
Anyone else agree?

You can never have too many leaders on the pitch but no - I don't agree that's a particular problem at Hibs right now.

I reckon that the following players all show latent leadership qualities such that they could comfortably don the captain's armband:
Darren McGregor
David Gray
Paul Hanlon
Paul McGinn
Jackson Irving
Stephen McGinn

[Northernhibee]

Ye I hear what your saying regards McGinn. That was certainly a factor in losing the goal last night.
Again, maybe when we’re two nil up, we should be thinking about possession, rather than allowing our fullbacks to maraud forward on a whim when there’s absolutely no need.
Game management definitely needs to be better and I hope they learn a vital lesson from that.

Problem is that we need the fullbacks and/or McGinn a bit further forward to try and keep that possession, otherwise you're effectively counting our wide players out of the game as teams double up on them now. There's always a bit of a fine line with supporting the midfield and wide players and leaving ourselves open (and we occasionally do leave ourselves open, but that's football), but IMO that's where we need Gogic, Hallberg or other midfielders who can sit a little deeper and either break up the play or just retain the ball (and I've been impressed with Hallberg this season, he's got a few assists under his belt). If we need to rest Gogic then we also need to give Porto a little bit of reign to do what he does as he's very high up the rankings for interceptions (I had a look last night).

I really don't think we're that short of players who take lead by example or take charge of the game just now. I just think it's the way that the season is unfolding and that we could do with resting a couple of players, and finding ways to support Murphy and Boyle or Cadden without overcommiting other players to help out.

Game management I agree with to some extent - maybe we need to be a bit more noisy at contentious decisions (look when Doig handled the ball vs Dundee United, everyone in tangerine in Tannadice was shouting away and creating commotion). Not in the referees face risking a booking, but filling the void of atmosphere that having no fans has created.

[Magpie]

I think Daz coming in and being a lot more vocal has probably helped the team and spurred them onto being more vocal with each other as well.
Daz is definitely a leader, on and off the pitch. I have seen Nisbet and Porteous praise him and show respect for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s had a little word with them regarding the recent transfer window saga and helped them to refocus and give everything they got.

[HFC93]

I still think we are lacking a right good leader/captain

We seem to still have a bit of that boy band frailty about us. Certainly I’m never confident about our defensive side.

If we go a goal up, I always think we’ll need two more to be safe.
I’m not having a go at our defence by any means, defending starts from the front.
Maybe our game play/ mentality needs to be better?
Anyone else agree?

The 'boy band' stuff is something you read on here every once in a while but I'm still not actually sure what it means.

[Unseen work]

Oh the old boy band phrase.

I don’t think we’re boy band at all. Guys like McGinn, Porteous, McGregor, Hanlon, Gogic and Irvine all have grit and determination about them and whilst they’ve made mistakes this season, would be hard to play against. Up front Doidge and Nisbet are hardly boyband either and both get stuck in.

What makes you a leader though? I think the majority of fans just see it as a big centre half that wins headers, shouts and puts in a big challenge now and again.

To me it’s more than that, it’s getting on the ball when you’re having a nightmare or the team are playing poorly and really driving us forward and getting us a win by grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck.


Its easy to see opposition defenders and think they’re great but we only see them against us, and how often when we score do you focus on the defending of the opposition and not just praising our play? I can think of lots of goals if we conceded a goal like one we’ve scored we would get slaughtered.

I think the reason we concede goals or look like conceding at times is 1, because all teams do and 2, because there’s not much difference between 6 or so teams in the league. We’re not good enough to not concede every game and limit every shot, yet we’ve kept 11 clean sheets this season.

If we were St Mirren or Livingston it 4/5th I’m sure we’d be saying I wish we were as defensively solid as Hibs and they’d look at stats like clean sheets and think we never gift goals.

Its always easier to criticise the team you see every week and praise others.

I also think a big part of the mistakes we’ve made this season is because we really overcommit when we’re in possession. Porteous and Hanlon have about 20 yards between them whilst Doig and McGinn are high and wide and Gogic drops. All it takes it one loose pass and the opposition turn it over and we’re in trouble.

That’s one thing that pains me about us and whilst it’s not boy band it’s trying to be too clever. Hanlon and Porteous need to just clear their lines more, too many occasions they defend it well but try to be too clever and chip a pass into a midfielder or put it out for a throw near our penalty box. Smash it long into the corner when you’re under that sort of pressure and get the team right up, there will be the odd occasion too that Nisbet, Doidge or Boyle are in the right place too and exploit the gap they’ve left

[Brightside]

So are you ever confident we’ll not concede when we go a goal up?
Is it a tactical thing?

Ive never felt that supporting Hibs. Not more so or less so now.

[Hibbyradge]

If we manage to keep him, I could see Jackson Irvine getting the armband.

I'd like that.

[Northernhibee]

You know something, the whole “what is a leader” phrase keeps coming up on here and it’s usually “getting in the referees face, always moaning at the ref and the players” and all that.

What some people are describing there is Liam Craig, to a T.

[Brightside]

You know something, the whole “what is a leader” phrase keeps coming up on here and it’s usually “getting in the referees face, always moaning at the ref and the players” and all that.

What some people are describing there is Liam Craig, to a T.

Yep - the last thing we need.

[joe t]

Let’s not forget how honking we were with recognised ‘leader’ James McPake in the team.

I get people’s view that it is needed but it shouldn’t be sacrificed for talent on the pitch. Leadership comes every day in training, off field behaviours etc, and sir David and dad still provide this even if the ain’t in the chosen squad of 16.

[MWHIBBIES]

I still think we are lacking a right good leader/captain

We seem to still have a bit of that boy band frailty about us. Certainly I’m never confident about our defensive side.

If we go a goal up, I always think we’ll need two more to be safe.
I’m not having a go at our defence by any means, defending starts from the front.
Maybe our game play/ mentality needs to be better?
Anyone else agree?

This is painful to read.

When Lennon said that, he was refering to the Hibs teams he played against. Riordan, Brown, Thomson etc with the daft haircuts and inconsistency that came with a young team. He was not speaking about the side that won the cup or really any side in the part 13 years or so. It is definitely not applicable to this side. Our defensive record this season is very good.

[Unseen work]

You know something, the whole “what is a leader” phrase keeps coming up on here and it’s usually “getting in the referees face, always moaning at the ref and the players” and all that.

What some people are describing there is Liam Craig, to a T.

This is exactly the point I was making.

Liam Craig, Ross Chisholm, James McPake etc.

From watching Si Ferry’s podcast aswell they always talk about how some players play upto the fans by some of the actions they do and whilst the fans love it, the other players can’t stand it.

If anyone moans about getting in refs faces and how we don’t do it they need to rewatch the sending off last night. Doidge, Irvine and a couple others were straight over to the ref. Porteous is another one that seems to sprint over in the face of the ref too.

To me a leader is far more than pointing and shouting like I touched on earlier.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think it’s more to do with a lack of game management or intelligence.

Every manager from Stubbs onwards has talked about us needing to manage games better, especially when in a winning position.

Take Boyle as an example, to me he has never grown up, he’s still like a young laddie when he should be one of the more experienced pros in the squad.

We need experienced heads on young shoulders!

[ian cruise]

The 'boy band' stuff is something you read on here every once in a while but I'm still not actually sure what it means.

I thought it was a reference to Scott Allan's beautiful hairstyle 😉

[thegaffer12]

Think Paul McGinn has the potential to be our future captain.

[Alfred E Newman]

I think it’s more to do with a lack of game management or intelligence.

Every manager from Stubbs onwards has talked about us needing to manage games better, especially when in a winning position.

Take Boyle as an example, to me he has never grown up, he’s still like a young laddie when he should be one of the more experienced pros in the squad.

We need experienced heads on young shoulders!

There was a perfect example of bad match management last night when Boyle won a free kick on the half way line in injury time.
Instead of taking a short free kick and keeping possession, it was hit long and straight out for a goal kick . The resultant goal kick gave St Mirren another chance to get up the park and pump the ball into our box for one last nervous scramble.

[G15 Hibs]

Think Paul McGinn has the potential to be our future captain.

Probably doesn't have the potential to be in a boy band though, poor soul.

Folk talking about what makes a good leader and how it doesn't always have to be a big centre half who shouts. Going back 20-odd years Darren Jackson was a great leader in his last two or three seasons at Hibs. He was a right moany ******* to begin with but as he became more established he began to lead by example on the pitch, always ready to take responsibility - as well as being our best outfield player for a few years (Jim Leighton, another contender for best player at that time was also a great leader in a different way). I think that's more what it's about, taking responsibility for making the team play on the pitch. In that way, like an earlier poster, I could see Jackson Irvine coming into that role should he stay at Hibs (a very early judgement on that right enough after 4 games or something)

[WhileTheChief..]

There was a perfect example of bad match management last night when Boyle won a free kick on the half way line in injury time.
Instead of taking a short free kick and keeping possession, it was hit long and straight out for a goal kick . The resultant goal kick gave St Mirren another chance to get up the park and pump the ball into our box for one last nervous scramble.

Perfect example as you say, and our games are littered with them.

Thing is, these sorts of things should be easily sorted and we could then avoid the nervous endings we’ve seen too often this season.

[Smartie]

It's not been so obvious over the past couple of games as we've taken the lead and gone on to win, but I do feel we lack something in a big way when we're a goal down.

That's when the best teams show their mettle, too often we limp to defeat.

I don't look at the squad and see it short on leadership, tbh I think it's a slightly lazy and obvious stick to beat the players with, mainly because Paul Hanlon isn't the biggest gesticulator.

Rather than a single leadership figure, it's more about the ability of a collection of individuals to dig deep and not let their heads go down.

We need to dig a few results out from difficult positions to give us the belief we can do it. That's more important to me than a single figure who "leads".

Our squad isn't a young, weak or delicate one. Yes, we have a couple of young players, but the majority of our players have been around the block to various extents and should have the resilience required to do better than they do when we end up losing the first goal, imo.

[Max_Shah]

This is what a boy-band looks like:
https://i.imgur.com/UFpqBBY.png

This is what Hibernian FC legends look like:

https://i.imgur.com/HwBdpty.png
Don't know about you but I can certainly tell the difference between the two.

[h1bs4life]

The Scottish Cup winning team had a leader in Gray who was backed up by Mcgregor , McGinn , McGeouch and Fyvie amongst others .
Mcgregor has made a big difference to the team when playing.
Compare that to Scottish Cup semi-final and especially the St Johnstone semi final loss , no leadership , no character , no fight.

[blackpoolhibs]

The Scottish Cup winning team had a leader in Gray who was backed up by Mcgregor , McGinn , McGeouch and Fyvie amongst others .
Mcgregor has made a big difference to the team when playing.
Compare that to Scottish Cup semi-final and especially the St Johnstone semi final loss , no leadership , no character , no fight.

You could say that after every defeat, like Alloa or Morton.

[MWHIBBIES]

The Scottish Cup winning team had a leader in Gray who was backed up by Mcgregor , McGinn , McGeouch and Fyvie amongst others .
Mcgregor has made a big difference to the team when playing.
Compare that to Scottish Cup semi-final and especially the St Johnstone semi final loss , no leadership , no character , no fight.

David captained multiple big game failures as well, including playoffs, derbies. Plenty silly games lost to Alloa, Dumbarton, QOTS etc.
There is no real winning formula. The idea that a leader makes you immune from dreadful performances is nonsense.

[Since452]

David captained multiple big game failures as well, including playoffs, derbies. Plenty silly games lost to Alloa, Dumbarton, QOTS etc.
There is no real winning formula. The idea that a leader makes you immune from dreadful performances is nonsense.

Jeezo. People see Stubbs era through green tinted specs because of the SC but when you think about some of the failures...

[MrRobot]

If we manage to keep him, I could see Jackson Irvine getting the armband.

I'd like that.

Agree with this, seems like captain material to me.

Having Daz back in the team definitely adds a leader onto the pitch too. He’d be my current captain.

[hibbydog]

Oh the old boy band phrase.

I don’t think we’re boy band at all. Guys like McGinn, Porteous, McGregor, Hanlon, Gogic and Irvine all have grit and determination about them and whilst they’ve made mistakes this season, would be hard to play against. Up front Doidge and Nisbet are hardly boyband either and both get stuck in.

What makes you a leader though? I think the majority of fans just see it as a big centre half that wins headers, shouts and puts in a big challenge now and again.

To me it’s more than that, it’s getting on the ball when you’re having a nightmare or the team are playing poorly and really driving us forward and getting us a win by grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck.


Its easy to see opposition defenders and think they’re great but we only see them against us, and how often when we score do you focus on the defending of the opposition and not just praising our play? I can think of lots of goals if we conceded a goal like one we’ve scored we would get slaughtered.

I think the reason we concede goals or look like conceding at times is 1, because all teams do and 2, because there’s not much difference between 6 or so teams in the league. We’re not good enough to not concede every game and limit every shot, yet we’ve kept 11 clean sheets this season.

If we were St Mirren or Livingston it 4/5th I’m sure we’d be saying I wish we were as defensively solid as Hibs and they’d look at stats like clean sheets and think we never gift goals.

Its always easier to criticise the team you see every week and praise others.

I also think a big part of the mistakes we’ve made this season is because we really overcommit when we’re in possession. Porteous and Hanlon have about 20 yards between them whilst Doig and McGinn are high and wide and Gogic drops. All it takes it one loose pass and the opposition turn it over and we’re in trouble.

That’s one thing that pains me about us and whilst it’s not boy band it’s trying to be too clever. Hanlon and Porteous need to just clear their lines more, too many occasions they defend it well but try to be too clever and chip a pass into a midfielder or put it out for a throw near our penalty box. Smash it long into the corner when you’re under that sort of pressure and get the team right up, there will be the odd occasion too that Nisbet, Doidge or Boyle are in the right place too and exploit the gap they’ve left

This is the bit that bothers me, particularly in big games. EG against St Johnstone the heads went down when we were missing sitters and we looked uninterested when we went a goal down. Never recovered and we ended up just going through the motions.

Too often when things are going against us the players look like they wish they were somewhere else. Some go hiding. You want everyone to be screaming for the ball and taking responsibility, so they all need to be leaders.

[h1bs4life]

David captained multiple big game failures as well, including playoffs, derbies. Plenty silly games lost to Alloa, Dumbarton, QOTS etc.
There is no real winning formula. The idea that a leader makes you immune from dreadful performances is nonsense.

Your the one who saying it makes you immune from dreadful performances.
That team that ultimately won the Scottish Cup also had a decent derby record and decent record against so called bigger teams.
Scottish cup final the team had a leader in David Gray with players like McGinn , McGeouch , Fyvie and other driving each other on especially after going 2-1 down.
Who were our leaders in the Scottish Cup semi-final and the league cup semi final against St Johnstone , we had none.