What defines a good season

[Gordy M]

With all thats been posted recently, it appears the support have vastly differing expections as to what constitutes a good season. There seems to be supporters who wouldng be happy with top 4 and cup semi/final but quite a few saying thats not enough? Just wondered what they do view as a good season?

[Carheenlea]

With all thats been posted recently, it appears the support have vastly differing expections as to what constitutes a good season. There seems to be supporters who wouldng be happy with top 4 and cup semi/final but quite a few saying thats not enough? Just wondered what they do view as a good season?

I’d say the general consensus would be that a top 4 and cup semi finals would on the face of it be a decent season, but when you break it down though when reflecting you can’t ignore losing two semis in the manner we did and the opportunities lost to win silverware. Two major disappointments that were hard to take, and saw a lot of good will from the support to Jack Ross recede.

What defines a successful season is a lot more than just a simple league placings/cup runs target.

[Unseen work]

From my experience the expectations levels on here change dependent on how we’re doing.

If we’re bottom six people say top 6 is minimum requirements.

If we’re top 6 people say top 4 is minimum requirement.

If we’re top 4 people say that’s the minimum and we should be 3rd with a cup and beating the big teams often.

For me I always think top 4 and good cup runs is a good season for us.

People might turn their nose up at that but the amount of times we’ve finished in the top 4 over the last 20 years is very low, I’d like us so start being top 4 consistently. From there you then generate more money from Europe etc and look more attractive for better players to join and therefore have a better chance of a cup.

I hate the thought of chopping and changing managers like we have done recently and expecting the to automatically make us brilliant. It takes time to build the squad you want by from what I’ve see from Ross I like his signings and type of player he tries to recruit.

[Gordy M]

What defines a successful season is a lot more than just a simple league placings/cup runs target.[/QUOTE]

Fair point, but im not sure if it does with regards to cups. What if we won the scottish playing 4 1st or 2nd division teams? Would anyone care? However it would certainly be levelled as a bad season if we went out to the old firm in the early rounds, as we hadnt had a 'cup run'. If we finish 4th or better, cup final and s semi, i think that is a decent season for us.

[matty_f]

I think there are two ways of looking at it (at least two, I should say).

What's a good season and what's the minimum expectation?

I think those pointing to 4th place and semi finals are looking at minimum expectations - to reach a semi final isn't a success, but to not reach one would represent failure. Winning the cup is success.

Finishing fourth isn't success but finishing lower than fourth could be considered not good enough.

[Stuart93]

I reckon it depends how the season pans out. I get that targets at the start of the season would be to reach semi finals but when you’re presented with the opportunity like we were with the teams remaining in the competition, only reaching the semi can only surely be seen as a disappointment

In terms of the league, I’d probably be happy with 4th. I actually think if you look at individual games we’ve actually missed out on opportunities to be clear in 3rd place. The dundee utd and Celtic games at ER in particular.

[Gordy M]

From my experience the expectations levels on here change dependent on how we’re doing.

If we’re bottom six people say top 6 is minimum requirements.

If we’re top 6 people say top 4 is minimum requirement.

If we’re top 4 people say that’s the minimum and we should be 3rd with a cup and beating the big teams often.

For me I always think top 4 and good cup runs is a good season for us.

People might turn their nose up at that but the amount of times we’ve finished in the top 4 over the last 20 years is very low, I’d like us so start being top 4 consistently. From there you then generate more money from Europe etc and look more attractive for better players to join and therefore have a better chance of a cup.

I hate the thought of chopping and changing managers like we have done recently and expecting the to automatically make us brilliant. It takes time to build the squad you want by from what I’ve see from Ross I like his signings and type of player he tries to recruit.
Yep, thats kinda where im at. I was just interested in what others thought, if top 4 and cup runs (semi/final) isnt good enough.

[The Modfather]

A season that’s enjoyable and we look back on fondly IMO, which can take many different shapes.

[SMAXXA]

Finishing 3rd would be classed as a good season. Not often we do that

[Key West]

At lot of the good work you could debate has been undone but a positive reaction from now towards the end of the season, a good Scottish Cup being part of that and finishing 3rd might pacify the majority of the manager's critics.

[hibbysam]

From my experience the expectations levels on here change dependent on how we’re doing.

If we’re bottom six people say top 6 is minimum requirements.

If we’re top 6 people say top 4 is minimum requirement.

If we’re top 4 people say that’s the minimum and we should be 3rd with a cup and beating the big teams often.

For me I always think top 4 and good cup runs is a good season for us.

People might turn their nose up at that but the amount of times we’ve finished in the top 4 over the last 20 years is very low, I’d like us so start being top 4 consistently. From there you then generate more money from Europe etc and look more attractive for better players to join and therefore have a better chance of a cup.

I hate the thought of chopping and changing managers like we have done recently and expecting the to automatically make us brilliant. It takes time to build the squad you want by from what I’ve see from Ross I like his signings and type of player he tries to recruit.

This for me. I want us to try and get to the point that Ron seems to want us to get to with sustained success. That doesn’t happen overnight and we will take some rather large hits along the way. But we need to be improving to the end point, and thus far we have. The cups were big hits, but the league has been a success to this point. We need to keep building the squad, keep bringing assets to the club, and hopefully success in the shape of trophies will follow in years to come.

[Wilson]

I want our team to be good and to believe they are good. 5th isn't success but if you believe the team can progress or is on the up then you take it.

This team seems to be treading water. It throws away a chance of a final and given the opportunity to redeem itself it does the exact same. Where is the progress? Where are the signs we're getting somewhere?

We may well hold fourth but it'll have been done on results early on. How can we enjoy it as success when we're doing our best to throw it away - and don't look like we're progressing or evolving into a genuinely good side.

[Saint Hibee]

A season that’s enjoyable and we look back on fondly IMO, which can take many different shapes.

This. There isn't a single set of criteria which defines a good season. Personally, beating Hearts and playing entertaining football are pretty high up there, but in different circumstances other goals might count more.

[Peevemor]

We currently have the 5th biggest player/wage budget in Scotland. Simplistically this should get us the 5th best squad.

In a normal season (with our tosspot neighbours in the top league), anything above 5th could be viewed as good.

Getting to semi finals is good. People suggesting it's a minimum are kidding themselves on. Getting to semi finals as regularly as we have been isn't to be sniffed at. As somebody pointed out elsewhere, those like me who started attending regularly in the 80s could only dream of so many Hampden appearances.

I've already posted that Hibs used to budget for reaching the quarter finals in the cups. This could maybe be seen as a minimum but cup draws aren't always kind.

A good season is when you don't want it to stop. It's when you're enjoying watching Hibs so much that you can't wait for the next match. Unfortunately we don't get enough of that.

[hibbysam]

4th and into Europe as a minimum, even more so when fans are attending. Love European ties in the summer sun at home, and the travels away. Absolutely huge for me.

Cup runs are a must, nobody wants pumped out early, and I love the day out at hampden. Once you are there it all depends on draw. Obviously don’t want to lose any but some are easier to take than others, but you need success at times.

There is no formula for a good successful season for me, but the above are things that make it more enjoyable for me. Very rarely do we manage to compete at the top on all fronts. Most of our cup successes come when we fall short in the league, and we do well in the league when falling short in cups.

[Max_Shah]

For me:

European football by either league standing, cup participation or fair-play shenanigans.

Could not give a Castlemaine about how it is done or about how "pretty" our "diamond" is.

Europe or bust by 16/5.

[J-C]

A team trying to play with flair and emotion, players that'll get you out your seat and cheer. Not expecting to win the league but not frightened to have a go at it by not giving the OF any respect, so minimum top 4 pushing for 3rd or 2nd. Not losing heavily to any team below us and if we lose to Aberdeen and OF, it's because they've worked hard for it. Minimum both semis in cups but expect the final of one with a chance of winning it. Regular European football.

[flash]

A team trying to play with flair and emotion, players that'll get you out your seat and cheer. Not expecting to win the league but not frightened to have a go at it by not giving the OF any respect, so minimum top 4 pushing for 3rd or 2nd. Not losing heavily to any team below us and if we lose to Aberdeen and OF, it's because they've worked hard for it. Minimum both semis in cups but expect the final of one with a chance of winning it. Regular European football.

Christ you must have hated 95% of the last 40 years.

[flash]

At lot of the good work you could debate has been undone but a positive reaction from now towards the end of the season, a good Scottish Cup being part of that and finishing 3rd might pacify the majority of the manager's critics.

If we did all of that then anyone who still wanted him sacked would be talking out their erse.

[bingo70]

I think it’s one we make memorable moments for the right reasons

Finishing 4th but losing all the big games is ***** (I know many will disagree, that’s fine)

Getting to the cup semi finals by beating Dundee, Alloa and some lower league teams in the early rounds but then losing to the first premier league team we come up against doesn’t make it a good cup run (for me it doesn’t anyway)

Getting tk the semi finals of the Scottish cup but losing to a lower league team doesn’t constitute a good cup run for me either (how many people look back fondly on the cup run when we lost to Ayr in the semi finals?)

Sorry, I know these points have been made a million times since Saturday however for me it highlights that you can’t judge how good a season is by marking it down in black and white. Footballs not a big corporate office where everything is judged on spreadsheets and KPI’s.

For me a good season is when we have been entertained with some real highs, beating Hearts, Rangers or Celtic for example, or skudding teams regularly wieh good fast exciting football.

If our season ended tomorrow, what would the highlight of this season be? On paper we’d have done well, in reality it’s been pretty pish for the most part IMO.

[Since452]

This fourth place would be the same as the one under Lennon. Arguably better as we've had a home advantage of 17/18k fans wiped out. That won't affect the smaller teams as much. What we need to do as a club is make sure we're consistently top four and in semi's. We're on the way there.

[calumhibee1]

I think it’s one we make memorable moments for the right reasons

Finishing 4th but losing all the big games is ***** (I know many will disagree, that’s fine)

Getting to the cup semi finals by beating Dundee, Alloa and some lower league teams in the early rounds but then losing to the first premier league team we come up against doesn’t make it a good cup run (for me it doesn’t anyway)

Getting tk the semi finals of the Scottish cup but losing to a lower league team doesn’t constitute a good cup run for me either (how many people look back fondly on the cup run when we lost to Ayr in the semi finals?)

Sorry, I know these points have been made a million times since Saturday however for me it highlights that you can’t judge how good a season is by marking it down in black and white. Footballs not a big corporate office where everything is judged on spreadsheets and KPI’s.

For me a good season is when we have been entertained with some real highs, beating Hearts, Rangers or Celtic for example, or skudding teams regularly wieh good fast exciting football.

If our season ended tomorrow, what would the highlight of this season be? On paper we’d have done well, in reality it’s been pretty pish for the most part IMO.

:agree:

Agree with every word of this, especially the last part. If people want to say that winning games/qualifying for Europe is all that matters then that’s fine if you feel like that, but I’ll never in a million years feel that way. The idea of going to watch Hibs for the rest of my life, finishing 4th every season but toiling to pick out any sort of highlight most of the time isn’t for me at all.

[calumhibee1]

This fourth place would be the same as the one under Lennon. Arguably better as we've had a home advantage of 17/18k fans wiped out. That won't affect the smaller teams as much. What we need to do as a club is make sure we're consistently top four and in semi's. We're on the way there.

Just to be clear - and I’m not trying to be a wideo, it’s a genuine question :greengrin - you think that if we keep going as we are this season that it would eclipse the 17/18 season?

[hibbysam]

:agree:

Agree with every word of this, especially the last part. If people want to say that winning games/qualifying for Europe is all that matters then that’s fine if you feel like that, but I’ll never in a million years feel that way. The idea of going to watch Hibs for the rest of my life, finishing 4th every season but toiling to pick out any sort of highlight most of the time isn’t for me at all.

That would be an enjoyable season from a fan visual perspective, not a good season for me. A good season is achieving something. Qualifying for Europe is an achievement. It also brings memories that stay with fans for quite a while, Dnipro, AEK, Asteras, Brondby etc.

[Stuart93]

I think it’s one we make memorable moments for the right reasons

Finishing 4th but losing all the big games is ***** (I know many will disagree, that’s fine)

Getting to the cup semi finals by beating Dundee, Alloa and some lower league teams in the early rounds but then losing to the first premier league team we come up against doesn’t make it a good cup run (for me it doesn’t anyway)

Getting tk the semi finals of the Scottish cup but losing to a lower league team doesn’t constitute a good cup run for me either (how many people look back fondly on the cup run when we lost to Ayr in the semi finals?)

Sorry, I know these points have been made a million times since Saturday however for me it highlights that you can’t judge how good a season is by marking it down in black and white. Footballs not a big corporate office where everything is judged on spreadsheets and KPI’s.

For me a good season is when we have been entertained with some real highs, beating Hearts, Rangers or Celtic for example, or skudding teams regularly wieh good fast exciting football.

If our season ended tomorrow, what would the highlight of this season be? On paper we’d have done well, in reality it’s been pretty pish for the most part IMO.

Yea I’d be along these lines too. But then I think you me & calumhibee1 are classed as more negative posters eh.

It’s a good point you make at the end. If the season finished now and someone asked “what was your favourite part of the season?” I genuinely think I’d struggle to answer. 4-1 livi maybe? 2-2 v the huns? 4th would be decent nothing more but a season with a big win doesn’t seem exciting for me

[flash]

Just to be clear - and I’m not trying to be a wideo, it’s a genuine question :greengrin - you think that if we keep going as we are this season that it would eclipse the 17/18 season?

To be fair if we keep going as we are we won't finish 4th.
The one thing we can all agree on is things need to improve.

[hibbysam]

Yea I’d be along these lines too. But then I think you me & calumhibee1 are classed as more negative posters eh.

It’s a good point you make at the end. If the season finished now and someone asked “what was your favourite part of the season?” I genuinely think I’d struggle to answer. 4-1 livi maybe? 2-2 v the huns? 4th would be decent nothing more but a season with a big win doesn’t seem exciting for me

Had we been at games youd away away point at Livingston away, Motherwell away, Hamilton away, St Mirren away, not huge games but very good performances that you’d probably appreciate them far more. Even the draws with Rangers and Celtic, although not wins, the atmosphere would’ve made them fairly quality days at the football rather than drawing and turning the laptop off and forgetting about it.

[DH1875]

We SHOULD be aiming to finishing 3rd/4th and making cup semi finals every season. By doing so, doesn't make it a good season, it's what/where we SHOULD be.
Anything more is a good season and winning something is a great season.

[ClermistonGreen]

If the players have the same expectations and ideas of success as the majority of the contributors ,
We’re Doomed ! :confused: :rolleyes: :agree:

[DH1875]

Never agreed that finishing 5th/6th is good. If it wasn't for the split would finishing 6th be seen as good. Not for me.

[Greenbeard]

IIRC there was a thread on this last summer, no?
The stats show up well so far. An average of 7 points from every 4 games is usually good enough for 3rd. To me that is a good ongoing yardstick. Not that I would expect that sort of return every year. We were ahead of that until the recent poor run, but are still behind that average by just two points.
Despite that decent points tally, and also already having been to Hampden (a target of at least once per season was a general consensus last time), I think the criticism of the team is justified on several counts.
1. We have made what on paper appear to be some excellent signings to strengthen at a time when most other clubs are not doing likewise.
2. Huns aside, our main protagonists are not exactly at their strongest this season. The corollary though is that there is not much to choose between most of the other clubs in the league.
3. I think for the squad we have we have been underperforming. We could and should be doing better.
This is a better than average Hibs squad therefore it is fair to expect better than average results.

[houstonhibbee]

With all thats been posted recently, it appears the support have vastly differing expections as to what constitutes a good season. There seems to be supporters who wouldng be happy with top 4 and cup semi/final but quite a few saying thats not enough? Just wondered what they do view as a good season?


maybe not what you're asking but I don't think you can compare high level overall expectations for a whole season of 50 plus games to specific insipid performances like last Saturday. Two very different things.

[superfurryhibby]

IIRC there was a thread on this last summer, no?
The stats show up well so far. An average of 7 points from every 4 games is usually good enough for 3rd. To me that is a good ongoing yardstick. Not that I would expect that sort of return every year. We were ahead of that until the recent poor run, but are still behind that average by just two points.
Despite that decent points tally, and also already having been to Hampden (a target of at least once per season was a general consensus last time), I think the criticism of the team is justified on several counts.
1. We have made what on paper appear to be some excellent signings to strengthen at a time when most other clubs are not doing likewise.
2. Huns aside, our main protagonists are not exactly at their strongest this season. The corollary though is that there is not much to choose between most of the other clubs in the league.
3. I think for the squad we have we have been underperforming. We could and should be doing better.
This is a better than average Hibs squad therefore it is fair to expect better than average results.

Good points.

[Andy74]

From my experience the expectations levels on here change dependent on how we’re doing.

If we’re bottom six people say top 6 is minimum requirements.

If we’re top 6 people say top 4 is minimum requirement.

If we’re top 4 people say that’s the minimum and we should be 3rd with a cup and beating the big teams often.

For me I always think top 4 and good cup runs is a good season for us.

People might turn their nose up at that but the amount of times we’ve finished in the top 4 over the last 20 years is very low, I’d like us so start being top 4 consistently. From there you then generate more money from Europe etc and look more attractive for better players to join and therefore have a better chance of a cup.

I hate the thought of chopping and changing managers like we have done recently and expecting the to automatically make us brilliant. It takes time to build the squad you want by from what I’ve see from Ross I like his signings and type of player he tries to recruit.

Nothing needs added to that. Exactly the position.

[Keith_M]

Winning a trophy and qualifying for Europe.

[B.H.F.C]

Depends on how the season goes and the opportunities you’re presented with.

Start of the season if you told me we’d get fourth and qualify for Europe, I’d have said that would probably represent a good season.

Now, unless we go and win the Scottish Cup, it’s going to feel like we’ve underachieved given the opportunities missed in the cups.

If the season was flipped on its head and I was seeing an improving team I’d maybe feel a bit differently but we’re going the other way as it goes on.

[madhatter]

When one of the top 5 highlights of the season isn’t an f bomb being dropped on The Match.

[Carheenlea]

When one of the top 5 highlights of the season isn’t an f bomb being dropped on The Match.

Prepare for a few tomorrow night..

[J-C]

Christ you must have hated 95% of the last 40 years.

1970's with the Tornadoes, League runners up 74&75, League cup win 73 and runner up 75, Scottish cup final 72&79 and 2 Dryburgh cups 72 and 73.

Since then we've flitted about up and down the leagues, a few odd finals and 2 wins in the League cup and that famous win in 2016. Definitely not enough for a club with our history and size.

[Ozyhibby]

Depends on how the season goes and the opportunities you’re presented with.

Start of the season if you told me we’d get fourth and qualify for Europe, I’d have said that would probably represent a good season.

Now, unless we go and win the Scottish Cup, it’s going to feel like we’ve underachieved given the opportunities missed in the cups.

If the season was flipped on its head and I was seeing an improving team I’d maybe feel a bit differently but we’re going the other way as it goes on.

The way things are going, 4th may not even be achieved.


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[Jones28]

It's all about context IMO, and this season is the most surreal season that any of us associated with football has even experienced which I guess is why my expectations are not as high as they seem to be to others.

Take the 2016 season where we lost a cup final and a play off final and went in to the Scottish cup final that, had we lost, it would have been probably the ultimate kick in the balls for a lot of fans. Thankfully we were given the best footballing day our lives and none of it really mattered in the grand scheme of things, but in that context it would have been harder to take for me certainly than even the final against Hearts.

It's a bit "if my aunt had baws", but thats just my feeling on it.

We will have a club to support at the end of this nonsense, and with the players we have been able to bring in we will hopefully be able to get a flying start when supporters get back in to grounds to roar the team on.

[jacomo]

Depends on how the season goes and the opportunities you’re presented with.

Start of the season if you told me we’d get fourth and qualify for Europe, I’d have said that would probably represent a good season.

Now, unless we go and win the Scottish Cup, it’s going to feel like we’ve underachieved given the opportunities missed in the cups.

If the season was flipped on its head and I was seeing an improving team I’d maybe feel a bit differently but we’re going the other way as it goes on.


Finishing 4th is a good season for us. No ifs or buts.

The two cup semi finals have been really tough to take, but let’s not lose all sense of proportion just because we are feeling a bit cross.

[jacomo]

The way things are going, 4th may not even be achieved.


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You mean we will finish third?

[SHODAN]

Qualifying for Europe, cup final, winning record against Hearts, couple wins against the OF.

If we can achieve all these then I'd say that's a good season. Three out of four is ok too.

[B.H.F.C]

Finishing 4th is a good season for us. No ifs or buts.

The two cup semi finals have been really tough to take, but let’s not lose all sense of proportion just because we are feeling a bit cross.

Finishing fourth will be us punching our weight but nothing better. So more satisfactory (results wise) than good IMO.

[Gordy M]

Qualifying for Europe, cup final, winning record against Hearts, couple wins against the OF.

If we can achieve all these then I'd say that's a good season. Three out of four is ok too.

A good season?? That would be a fantastic season and have other teams looking at our manager. Id be interested to know how many times that has happened?

[MWHIBBIES]

A team trying to play with flair and emotion, players that'll get you out your seat and cheer. Not expecting to win the league but not frightened to have a go at it by not giving the OF any respect, so minimum top 4 pushing for 3rd or 2nd. Not losing heavily to any team below us and if we lose to Aberdeen and OF, it's because they've worked hard for it. Minimum both semis in cups but expect the final of one with a chance of winning it. Regular European football.

Genuinely never had a good season in my lifetime if thats the template.

[MWHIBBIES]

A good season?? That would be a fantastic season and have other teams looking at our manager. Id be interested to know how many times that has happened?

2016 is probably the only one recently and Stubbs still gets pelters.

[Ozyhibby]

Finishing fourth will be us punching our weight but nothing better. So more satisfactory (results wise) than good IMO.

That’s about right. 3rd would probably count as good. If we let Livingston catch us for 4th then that is unforgivable and it should cost Ross his job.


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[Ozyhibby]

2016 is probably the only one recently and Stubbs still gets pelters.

Stubbs failed to get us promoted and finished below Falkirk in the league. With the players we had, that was disgraceful. He had to go.


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[SChibs]

I think a good season boils down to what we achieved the season before. Ultimately improving on the league position of the previous season and getting farther in the cups. If we manage to get 3rd or 4th maintaining that position would be a good season.

All in all steady progress is what a team like Hibs should be aiming for. Overhauls and expecting instant results is unrealistic long term and it rarely works out for clubs.

[MWHIBBIES]

Stubbs failed to get us promoted and finished below Falkirk in the league. With the players we had, that was disgraceful. He had to go.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDisgraceful is a strong word. Especially when you add context. Really boiled down to dreadful decisions in the playoffs. Overall Stubbs job is excellent. Bizarre that after the cup win he still gets so little credit.


1970's with the Tornadoes, League runners up 74&75, League cup win 73 and runner up 75, Scottish cup final 72&79 and 2 Dryburgh cups 72 and 73.

Since then we've flitted about up and down the leagues, a few odd finals and 2 wins in the League cup and that famous win in 2016. Definitely not enough for a club with our history and size.

It has been in keeping with our history to be honest. We've won a trophy in the 90s, 00s and 10s. Hibs have never won a major trophy in 3 continuous decades before then.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think it’s pretty hard to define a decent season.

We had a couple of good seasons under McLeish and Mowbray but won hee-haw.

Similarly, Lennon’s first season back in the Prem was the best I can remember but we won nowt.

Stubbs winning the cup was obviously excellent, but the season as whole was pretty naff.

In my time supporting Hibs there have been more disappointing than decent seasons overall. I just live in hope.

[calumhibee1]

That’s about right. 3rd would probably count as good. If we let Livingston catch us for 4th then that is unforgivable and it should cost Ross his job.


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:agree:

From how far ahead we were we should absolutely not have ever been getting roped back in by Livingston.

Unfortunately we’ve already thrown a large chunk of that lead but if we manage to throw the rest of the lead as well and finish 5th then this season will have been a disaster.

[bigwheel]

:agree:

From how far ahead we were we should absolutely not have ever been getting roped back in by Livingston.

Unfortunately we’ve already thrown a large chunk of that lead but if we manage to throw the rest of the lead as well and finish 5th then this season will have been a disaster.

That has also been as much about their incredible run . if they go another 10-12 games undefeated winning 9 of them - they’ll be chasing 3rd place let alone 4th ...

We can only control our performances , not theirs