After The Dust has settled

[Wellbankhibby]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

[Peevemor]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

Lennon's team lost our most important league match at Tynie in years.

We had crap results under him too.

[Fergus52]

Lennon's team lost our most important league match at Tynie in years.

We had crap results under him too.

Not only lost, but he completely changed our system that had seen us playing with title winning form and results since the end of January for that one match.

The unnecessary tactical change didn't work and we lost the game and our best chance at finishing second we'll likely ever have. Levein got in his head pre match and he bottled it big time.

[calumhibee1]

Depends what Lennon were talking about. 17/18 Lennon? Definitely imo. 18/19 Lennon? Good chance he’d have ****ed it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Why did we never win a semi final under Lennon then?

[Allez Hibs]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

Correct. Not a Lennon fan but no way we lose the last two semi finals with Lennon in Charge. 0-0 at Tynecastle looking for a replay, we just knew we were going to smash Hearts at Easter Road, same with the two League Derbies in 17/18.

[Greenio]

Whats worse...the guy that loses two semi finals or the bloke that loses before you even get to either of em?

[SlickShoes]

Amazing how quick folk forget what his team ended up like

[Caversham Green]

Lennon couldn't even get to the semi final with the best equipped club in the country.

[Allez Hibs]

Didn't we play Aberdeen in a Scottish Cup Semi Final in 2017 under Lennon? 🤔

[The Modfather]

My memory of Lennon at Hampden is getting the formation/personnel wrong from the start (McGeough at left midfield v Aberdeen), acknowledging it wasn’t working, making the right changes but having left too big a job to fully recover.

[MWHIBBIES]

Correct. Not a Lennon fan but no way we lose the last two semi finals with Lennon in Charge. 0-0 at Tynecastle looking for a replay, we just knew we were going to smash Hearts at Easter Road, same with the two League Derbies in 17/18.

Lennon lost 3 matches to Hearts, though. 3 matches to Levein.
He also lost 2 semi finals.
He also had a tendancy to pick bizarre teams in big games and often regret it.

[Allez Hibs]

My memory of Lennon at Hampden is getting the formation/personnel wrong from the start (McGeough at left midfield v Aberdeen), acknowledging it wasn’t working, making the right changes but having left too big a job to fully recover.

It was an unfortunate start to the game with the quick deflected goal off McGregor to be fair.

[SHODAN]

The last Hibs manager to win a semi final was Stubbs.

[Unseen work]

The Lennon who had the best Hibs team in some time but still only managed to finish 4th?

The Lennon that had us 8th in the league before he left?

The Lennon that never got us to a cup final?

Yeah current manager Jack Ross could never dream of those sort of stats right enough.

Jack Ross will finish 4th this season and get us to the Scottish Cup final.

[Allez Hibs]

Lennon lost 3 matches to Hearts, though. 3 matches to Levein.
He also lost 2 semi finals.
He also had a tendancy to pick bizarre teams in big games and often regret it.

I'm sure you'll admit that the opposition we played in the two Semi's was pretty decent. 2nd best side in the country when we were a Championship side and then Celtic chasing whatever Treble it was or even invincibles.

[Wellbankhibby]

The last Hibs manager to win a semi final was Stubbs.

I never really get the hype regards Stubbs a very likeable guy and forever greatful for the Scottish cup win it league position was poor. I think he would have been sacked if we lost the cup final.

[Wellbankhibby]

Whats worse...the guy that loses two semi finals or the bloke that loses before you even get to either of em?

There is no difference when your out your out.

[oneone73]

Who said the dust has settled?

[Wellbankhibby]

The Lennon who had the best Hibs team in some time but still only managed to finish 4th?

The Lennon that had us 8th in the league before he left?

The Lennon that never got us to a cup final?

Yeah current manager Jack Ross could never dream of those sort of stats right enough.

Jack Ross will finish 4th this season and get us to the Scottish Cup final.

I really hope your right but Zi can only see us going into free fall now.

[Unseen work]

The last Hibs manager to win a semi final was Stubbs.

Who a lot of people seem to forget/don’t mention as it doesn’t fit their argument that he lost a semi final to Ross County and finished 3rd in the Championship.

Ross has had us 3/4th all season and yet people want him out?!

It may not always be pretty but by in large it’s been effective. The team will improve massively by the end of the month (new signings, players returning from injuries and fitness levels of those who are back) and we’ll kick on.

[Pretty Boy]

Yep Lennon really proved he knew how to win a semi final when he played Jason Cummings as a lone striker.

I was also impressed with his big game winners mentality when he changed a winning formula and lost our biggest league game in years at Tynecastle then refused to take any blame afterwards or when we got horsed out the cup by Hearts with an utterly dire performance.

Saturday was ***** but there was plenty ***** under Lennon as well. Winners mentality or otherwise.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm sure you'll admit that the opposition we played in the two Semi's was pretty decent. 2nd best side in the country when we were a Championship side and then Celtic chasing whatever Treble it was or even invincibles.

And Ross has faced 2 sides Lennon had pretty poor records against.

[flash]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

Not sure you don't need a bit more thinking time.

[Andy74]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

I think that might be over thinking it a bit.

[Orchard_Hibs]

Who a lot of people seem to forget/don’t mention as it doesn’t fit their argument that he lost a semi final to Ross County and finished 3rd in the Championship.

Ross has had us 3/4th all season and yet people want him out?!

It may not always be pretty but by in large it’s been effective. The team will improve massively by the end of the month (new signings, players returning from injuries and fitness levels of those who are back) and we’ll kick on.

I think the fact that he has us 3/4th in the league is good but it is what should be expected as a minimum. He has blown probably the best chance to win a cup we will get for some years and this hurts a lot, the hearts semi was bad enough but to put out such a limp performance against st j has really changed a lot of people’s opinions of Ross.

[mcohibs]

I never really get the hype regards Stubbs a very likeable guy and forever greatful for the Scottish cup win it league position was poor. I think he would have been sacked if we lost the cup final.

Failed twice to get us out the championship, blew a playoff against Falkirk, lost a cup final to Ross County. If we'd lost the Scottish Cup final as well he would 100% have been sacked imo

[flash]

I think the fact that he has us 3/4th in the league is good but it is what should be expected as a minimum. He has blown probably the best chance to win a cup we will get for some years and this hurts a lot, the hearts semi was bad enough but to put out such a limp performance against st j has really changed a lot of people’s opinions of Ross.

How can having us higher in the table than we almost always finish be classed as a minimum?
When did that become the case?
There's an argument to be had regarding a few aspects of his tenure but this ridiculous rewriting of history simply devalues any other points made.

[loanheadhibby]

Who said the dust has settled?

Exactly. That’s the problem at Easter Road. The dust settles far too quickly. An acceptance of mediocrity but we got there, we’re 4th. Pah.

[Superfurry72]

It was an unfortunate start to the game with the quick deflected goal off McGregor to be fair.

That was the winning goal.

The first goal we lost the ball from our kick off, won it back, then lost it again. In 12 seconds. It was a shambles.

[ancient hibee]

We didn't lose the semi finals because of managers/coaches. We lost them because of careless finishing-something we have done all season.

[Jones28]

Exactly. That’s the problem at Easter Road. The dust settles far too quickly. An acceptance of mediocrity but we got there, we’re 4th. Pah.

You're the third poster I've asked, what does not accepting something look like?

[superfurryhibby]

We didn't lose the semi finals because of managers/coaches. We lost them because of careless finishing-something we have done all season.

How would you explain the second half performance? Was that not in part due to the manager, tactics and strategy?

[Orchard_Hibs]

How can having us higher in the table than we almost always finish be classed as a minimum?
When did that become the case?
There's an argument to be had regarding a few aspects of his tenure but this ridiculous rewriting of history simply devalues any other points made.

What do you think is the minimum placing a hibs manager should be achieving? I am fully aware how often we actually finish 3/4th but it’s where we should be looking at given size/budget. 3/4th we are comparing with hearts and Aberdeen or should be at least.

[ancient hibee]

How would you explain the second half performance? Was that not in part due to the manager, tactics and strategy?


The game should have been finished long before the second half.

[flash]

What do you think is the minimum placing a hibs manager should be achieving? I am fully aware how often we actually finish 3/4th but it’s where we should be looking at given size/budget. 3/4th we are comparing with hearts and Aberdeen or should be at least.

I would say top 6 is a minimum with 3rd or 4th place finishes being our better seasons. Throw in a good cup run and happy days.

[Orchard_Hibs]

I would say top 6 is a minimum with 3rd or 4th place finishes being our better seasons. Throw in a good cup run and happy days.

Fair enough, I would like us to finish 3/4th and over the years when I think of managers who I thought where successful this is where they had us Miller although most of his years where poor, mcleish, Mowbray, Hughes,Lennon (Stubbs’ cup win being an out lier to this rule). Stubbs, Collins and Miller are the managers who have won us cups in my years, Ross has blown a great opertunity to join them.

I’m not saying that I think all the approve where fantastic, football wise Mowbray and mcleish where miles ahead but they had better squads Mowbray and more money mcleish.

I have digressed slightly.

[basehibby]

Lennon lost 3 matches to Hearts, though. 3 matches to Levein.
He also lost 2 semi finals.
He also had a tendancy to pick bizarre teams in big games and often regret it.

Correct!

I liked Lennon a lot but there is an incredible amount of revisionist drivel being spouted on this thread.

The fact is that Ross has actually got us to Hamden in BOTH competitions thus far where he has had the opportunity. Lennon - regardless of luck of the draw etc - got us to one league Cup Semi and one Scottish Cup Semi and lost them both. The opponents in these semis were Celtic and Aberdeen - but we also exited cup competitions to Hearts, Aberdeen again and Queen of the South under his guidance.

Yes I enjoyed Lennon's time at Hibs but he was definitely much more naughty boy than messiah and was eminently capable of making a pigs ear of selection and tactics on occasion.

All managers will get it wrong on occasion - and I share in the worry that Ross has been getting it more wrong than right over the last month or so - but let's lay off of the history rewrites re previous incumbents and quit pretending that Ross is the only manager capable of ****ing up.

NB - If we're going to look back wistfully at ex-managers then at least lets compare apples with apples - Alan Stubbs was far and away our most successful cup manager for eons. He got us to Hamden in three out of the four cup comps entered under his tutelage - including of course the joyful SC Victory of 2016. Lest we forget though - he also managed us to SC Semi Final defeat at Hamden - vs the mighty Falkirk!

[flash]

Fair enough, I would like us to finish 3/4th and over the years when I think of managers who I thought where successful this is where they had us Miller although most of his years where poor, mcleish, Mowbray, Hughes,Lennon (Stubbs’ cup win being an out lier to this rule). Stubbs, Collins and Miller are the managers who have won us cups in my years, Ross has blown a great opertunity to join them.

I’m not saying that I think all the approve where fantastic, football wise Mowbray and mcleish where miles ahead but they had better squads Mowbray and more money mcleish.

I have digressed slightly.

Thanks for the reply. I think we can agree that our better seasons see us finish 3rd or 4th especially with a decent cup run thrown in.

[superfurryhibby]

The game should have been finished long before the second half.

Aye, but it wasn't and we floundered around cluelessly after Kerr scored, which was actually after 35 minutes of the first half.

Ross is as much to blame as any of the Hibs players for that pathetic display. I've been pretty supportive of him overall, but the last month or so, the team have been average to appalling (at best).

[loanheadhibby]

You're the third poster I've asked, what does not accepting something look like?

Changing the manager if it fails? Changing the mentality of the players/coaching staff. Trying to move players on who have had 5 chances at semi finals but not succeeded? Someone at the club coming out after the debrief on Saturday and explaining what went wrong and what we are going to do to try and ensure we manage over the line.

It’s not that hard to make announcements/statements . The club do it plenty when looking for cash.

Saturday was a big day, support was let down yet again. Absolute silence from club until tickets to be sold for Wednesday.

[Onion]

Lennon was handed the best Hibs team we've had in a generation and left it in a shambles. Ross has done a decent job rebuilding, but no better than decent. There is a serious question (verging on doubt) if he can make them any better than that.

Ross gets yet another chance to win one of our bigger games tomorrow.

[blackpoolhibs]

A fine spray of water from the hosepipe will help.

[Jones28]

Changing the manager if it fails? Changing the mentality of the players/coaching staff. Trying to move players on who have had 5 chances at semi finals but not succeeded? Someone at the club coming out after the debrief on Saturday and explaining what went wrong and what we are going to do to try and ensure we manage over the line.

It’s not that hard to make announcements/statements . The club do it plenty when looking for cash.

Saturday was a big day, support was let down yet again. Absolute silence from club until tickets to be sold for Wednesday.

And this non-acceptance is coming from who? Ron Gordon? The fans?

The term gets thrown around a lot but no-one can actually quantify what non acceptance looks like. If it means sacking managers when they lose big games where do we go next if we're not accepting these results?

[flash]

And this non-acceptance is coming from who? Ron Gordon? The fans?

The term gets thrown around a lot but no-one can actually quantify what non acceptance looks like. If it means sacking managers when they lose big games where do we go next if we're not accepting these results?

What if we sack him and bring a new manager in who fails to beat Rangers, Celtic or Aberdeen before the end of the season and doesn't win the Scottish Cup?
Sack him too presumably.

[Jones28]

What if we sack him and bring a new manager in who fails to beat Rangers, Celtic or Aberdeen before the end of the season and doesn't win the Scottish Cup?
Sack him too presumably.

Well I'll tell you something Flash, I won't accept it.

[Andy74]

What if we sack him and bring a new manager in who fails to beat Rangers, Celtic or Aberdeen before the end of the season and doesn't win the Scottish Cup?
Sack him too presumably.

Dunno - depends if we lose those games in a stylish way.

[blackpoolhibs]

Dunno - depends if we lose those games in a stylish way.


:faf:

[G B Young]

Failed twice to get us out the championship, blew a playoff against Falkirk, lost a cup final to Ross County. If we'd lost the Scottish Cup final as well he would 100% have been sacked imo

There's a significant amount of perspective required there. We were a Championship side which reached both major domestic cup finals in the same season while also trying to get out of a league where a play-off was realistically our best bet due to the fact a better-resourced Rangers were almost certainly going to take the automatic promotion spot. IMHO it was wholly understandable that we tailed off a bit in the league due to the fact we were competing on three fronts at a key stage in the season.

The County final could have gone either way (against a top flight team), we gave it our all against Falkirk but were largely undone (IIRC) by a goalkeeping error and we still had enough about us to deliver what is probably the greatest moment the majority of living Hibs fans have ever experienced. Even if we HAD lost to Rangers, Stubbs would still have been a target for other clubs after such a remarkable season.

[matty_f]

What if we sack him and bring a new manager in who fails to beat Rangers, Celtic or Aberdeen before the end of the season and doesn't win the Scottish Cup?
Sack him too presumably.

I think we're really bad (and probably not alone as a support) in dealing with what you might call "bumps in the road".

Ideally we'd have a consistent upwards trajectory, a manager comes in and there's just continuous improvement with no set backs. It's possible to get that, but it's highly unlikely.

The fallout from the semi finals (which were horrendous and there's very little defence for the team and manager for them) is seeing some people wanting us to scratch the tangible demonstrable progress that has been made, to start again with someone else.

I'm not sure that's ever a great answer to the problem, to be honest.

Has Jack Ross had long enough yet? Have we made allowances for the impact of the world we're living in at the moment (and should we?). I don't know the answer, my opinion is probably not (for both questions).

He needs to win games though, it sounds simple but that's the only thing that will turn folk around now. There needs to be an improvement in performances and an improvement in form.

[Northernhibee]

And this is why Neil Lennon shouldn''t have been near our club. A bang average manager who also couldn't win a semi final, bottled big games by changing formation and the like all the time yet because he's a "personality" and "pundit" we have people who are still blinded by his celebrity and insist he'd have us doing things he never did with us in the first place.

[aljo7-0]

I think we're really bad (and probably not alone as a support) in dealing with what you might call "bumps in the road".

Ideally we'd have a consistent upwards trajectory, a manager comes in and there's just continuous improvement with no set backs. It's possible to get that, but it's highly unlikely.

The fallout from the semi finals (which were horrendous and there's very little defence for the team and manager for them) is seeing some people wanting us to scratch the tangible demonstrable progress that has been made, to start again with someone else.

I'm not sure that's ever a great answer to the problem, to be honest.

Has Jack Ross had long enough yet? Have we made allowances for the impact of the world we're living in at the moment (and should we?). I don't know the answer, my opinion is probably not (for both questions).

He needs to win games though, it sounds simple but that's the only thing that will turn folk around now. There needs to be an improvement in performances and an improvement in form.

Good post Fully agree

[Magpie]

And this is why Neil Lennon shouldn''t have been near our club. A bang average manager who also couldn't win a semi final, bottled big games by changing formation and the like all the time yet because he's a "personality" and "pundit" we have people who are still blinded by his celebrity and insist he'd have us doing things he never did with us in the first place.

He’s won the Scottish Premiership 5 times, Scottish Cup 4 times, League Cup once and the Scottish Championship with us as manager. That’s hardly bang average. He also won many of ‘big games’ with us, including Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts and in Europe.

[loanheadhibby]

What if we sack him and bring a new manager in who fails to beat Rangers, Celtic or Aberdeen before the end of the season and doesn't win the Scottish Cup?
Sack him too presumably.

And what if we keep him and we continue to lose semi finals with a whimper, barely lay a glove on The teams above us and never get to a Scottish Cup/league cup final.

Possibly it’s not the manager that needs changed and it’s the players who have let us down in last 5 semi finals that need changed?

[MWHIBBIES]

I've decided not to accept Saturdays result. What do I do now?

[The Modfather]

I think we're really bad (and probably not alone as a support) in dealing with what you might call "bumps in the road".

Ideally we'd have a consistent upwards trajectory, a manager comes in and there's just continuous improvement with no set backs. It's possible to get that, but it's highly unlikely.

The fallout from the semi finals (which were horrendous and there's very little defence for the team and manager for them) is seeing some people wanting us to scratch the tangible demonstrable progress that has been made, to start again with someone else.

I'm not sure that's ever a great answer to the problem, to be honest.

Has Jack Ross had long enough yet? Have we made allowances for the impact of the world we're living in at the moment (and should we?). I don't know the answer, my opinion is probably not (for both questions).

He needs to win games though, it sounds simple but that's the only thing that will turn folk around now. There needs to be an improvement in performances and an improvement in form.

While I agree with you generally, we did have to suffer through the infrastructure years to get to this point where all available money is prioritised towards the first team. With an encouraging shift in paying fees the last two windows. As such we should be delivering “success” (whatever that is) and/or progress, certainly in the mid term IMO.

It’s not just the wins that are important going forward for me, it’s the “identity” and style that are as important. I don’t enjoy the way we have played most of this season and as a result don’t feel particularly invested in Hibs at the moment or even watch all the games I’ve already paid for.

[loanheadhibby]

And this non-acceptance is coming from who? Ron Gordon? The fans?

The term gets thrown around a lot but no-one can actually quantify what non acceptance looks like. If it means sacking managers when they lose big games where do we go next if we're not accepting these results?

Did i not just state what non acceptance can look like? You can change the manager and try someone/something new?

We can move on players who have failed to win any of the last 5 semi finals.

Ron/Graeme Mathie could be a bit more visible to the fans after semi final/final defeats.

What’s the harm in the club coming out after the weekend to say, we failed this time, we’re going to change x, y and z to try and get it better next time.

Surely we are entitled to hear from the club (other than JR) after that abject performance.

[superfurryhibby]

And this non-acceptance is coming from who? Ron Gordon? The fans?

The term gets thrown around a lot but no-one can actually quantify what non acceptance looks like. If it means sacking managers when they lose big games where do we go next if we're not accepting these results?

Non acceptance will look like a significant reduction in next seasons season ticket numbers.

[loanheadhibby]

Who a lot of people seem to forget/don’t mention as it doesn’t fit their argument that he lost a semi final to Ross County and finished 3rd in the Championship.

Ross has had us 3/4th all season and yet people want him out?!

It may not always be pretty but by in large it’s been effective. The team will improve massively by the end of the month (new signings, players returning from injuries and fitness levels of those who are back) and we’ll kick on.

I love that enthusiasm but do you not think to a degree, the horse has bolted for the season? Why were these things (new players excluded) not in place for the semi final with Hearts? Why were fitness levels not bang on for Saturday’s Semi final?

[loanheadhibby]

I've decided not to accept Saturdays result. What do I do now?

You could not renew your season ticket, withdraw funding fromHSL, stop buying from club shop?

You might not choose to do that, but there might be a lot who do.

[Cat Stanton]

After the dust has settled... let's have yet another thread moaning about Jack Ross and comparing him to other managers. Smashing.

[G B Young]

And this non-acceptance is coming from who? Ron Gordon? The fans?

The term gets thrown around a lot but no-one can actually quantify what non acceptance looks like. If it means sacking managers when they lose big games where do we go next if we're not accepting these results?

If it comes from the owner then yes I guess 'non acceptance' means sacking the manager when they don't deliver the results expected/demanded.

If it's coming from the fans, then genuine non-acceptance (ie something more tangible and hard-hitting than just ranting on a fans forum) might include (in non-Covid times):



A baying mob of irate fans laying seige to training at East Mains on a Monday morning after an 'unacceptable' result and hurling abuse/threatening the players and management.
A 100% boycott of the next home game coupled with a demand that the players and management make a filmed public apology for any 'unacceptable' result.
Management/players having it written into their contract that their employment with club can be terminated if fans deem their performances 'unacceptable'.


All extreme scenarios which would never come to pass because when all's said and done we do ultimately 'accept' all manner of dreadful results, otherwise we'd surely just stop supporting the club. If every bad result was genuinely 'unacceptable' then why, really, would anyone bother investing so much emotional energy in something over which we have no control?

Football is absurd in its capacity to send us spiralling into despair. Somebody's posted a list of all our 21st Century Hampden results on another thread and when you read through them and remember (as I do) being at the vast majority of them and the quite awful post-match gloom brought on by many of the defeats you have to question whether the fleeting moments of joy actually make up for all that.

As I've mentioned before during this pandemic, the inability to attend matches over the last year has provided me with a bit of distance from the game and helped me weigh up how much I actually need it in my life. Watching footballers playing to empty stadiums has really brought home to me how faintly ridiculous it is that the performance of an ever-changing cast of players can impact so heavily on your sense of wellbeing.

[ancient hibee]

After the dust has settled... let's have yet another thread moaning about Jack Ross and comparing him to other managers. Smashing.

There's a better thread where a number of posters are complaining that his voice doesn't excite them enough. Whatever rocks your boat I suppose.

[Jones28]

Did i not just state what non acceptance can look like? You can change the manager and try someone/something new?

We can move on players who have failed to win any of the last 5 semi finals.

Ron/Graeme Mathie could be a bit more visible to the fans after semi final/final defeats.

What’s the harm in the club coming out after the weekend to say, we failed this time, we’re going to change x, y and z to try and get it better next time.

Surely we are entitled to hear from the club (other than JR) after that abject performance.

Why? JR is the manager, it’s him and his players that need to stand up an be counted. Scott Allan has had an interview as well. He’s the figure head.

Do you really want RG to be firing out statements like Anne Budge? What do you want these statements to say? Some copy paste pish that’s just an attempt to appease supporters? You want him to throw the manager and players under the bus when they are perfectly capable (as we have seen) of communicating with the support? I’d rather not get some patronising crap from the owner of the club.

They’re gonna change x, y and z by getting rid of these 5 players and asking Jack to ask the team to try a bit harder next time please.

[Jones28]

Non acceptance will look like a significant reduction in next seasons season ticket numbers.

I think corona virus will have more of an impact than anything that happens this season, but if we finish fourth or third you really think we’ll see a drop off in season tickets? I don’t.

[ancient hibee]

Why? JR is the manager, it’s him and his players that need to stand up an be counted. Scott Allan has had an interview as well. He’s the figure head.

Do you really want RG to be firing out statements like Anne Budge? What do you want these statements to say? Some copy paste pish that’s just an attempt to appease supporters? You want him to throw the manager and players under the bus when they are perfectly capable (as we have seen) of communicating with the support? I’d rather not get some patronising crap from the owner of the club.

They’re gonna change x, y and z by getting rid of these 5 players and asking Jack to ask the team to try a bit harder next time please.

No they want Ron to tell us where it's all going wrong so that they can leap into print to ask him why he thinks he knows anything about football.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If it comes from the owner then yes I guess 'non acceptance' means sacking the manager when they don't deliver the results expected/demanded.

If it's coming from the fans, then genuine non-acceptance (ie something more tangible and hard-hitting than just ranting on a fans forum) might include (in non-Covid times):



A baying mob of irate fans laying seige to training at East Mains on a Monday morning after an 'unacceptable' result and hurling abuse/threatening the players and management.
A 100% boycott of the next home game coupled with a demand that the players and management make a filmed public apology for any 'unacceptable' result.
Management/players having it written into their contract that their employment with club can be terminated if fans deem their performances 'unacceptable'.


All extreme scenarios which would never come to pass because when all's said and done we do ultimately 'accept' all manner of dreadful results, otherwise we'd surely just stop supporting the club. If every bad result was genuinely 'unacceptable' then why, really, would anyone bother investing so much emotional energy in something over which we have no control?

Football is absurd in its capacity to send us spiralling into despair. Somebody's posted a list of all our 21st Century Hampden results on another thread and when you read through them and remember (as I do) being at the vast majority of them and the quite awful post-match gloom brought on by many of the defeats you have to question whether the fleeting moments of joy actually make up for all that.

As I've mentioned before during this pandemic, the inability to attend matches over the last year has provided me with a bit of distance from the game and helped me weigh up how much I actually need it in my life. Watching footballers playing to empty stadiums has really brought home to me how faintly ridiculous it is that the performance of an ever-changing cast of players can impact so heavily on your sense of wellbeing.

Maybe we should try being Newcastle United fans...

[superfurryhibby]

I think corona virus will have more of an impact than anything that happens this season, but if we finish fourth or third you really think we’ll see a drop off in season tickets? I don’t.

The way that this season is going, third seems impossible. We’re much more likely to finish fifth than third.

I expect a significant drop off in season tickets sales anyway, but dire football will ensure they fall even lower.

However, if Jack miraculously turns this around and wins the Scottish Cup, I may be proved wrong.

[Jones28]

The way that this season is going, third seems impossible. We’re much more likely to finish fifth than third.

I expect a significant drop off in season tickets sales anyway, but dire football will ensure they fall even lower.

However, if Jack miraculously turns this around and wins the Scottish Cup, I may be proved wrong.

The way the seasons going is that we’ve had our worst run by far but are still well in the fight for 3rd and have an outside chance at 2nd.

[superfurryhibby]

The way the seasons going is that we’ve had our worst run by far but are still well in the fight for 3rd and have an outside chance at 2nd.

I admire your optimism, but I’m not quite convinced you actually believe any of that.

[Andy74]

I admire your optimism, but I’m not quite convinced you actually believe any of that.

What he said is actually happening. What you have said might well happen but is going to take something a bit more extreme to end up that way.

And you think he is the one that shouldn’t believe what he is saying?

[Northernhibee]

He’s won the Scottish Premiership 5 times, Scottish Cup 4 times, League Cup once and the Scottish Championship with us as manager. That’s hardly bang average. He also won many of ‘big games’ with us, including Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts and in Europe.

He’s won **** all without having notably the largest budget in the competition.

[1875godsgift]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m


Lennon couldn't even get to the semi final with the best equipped club in the country.

A very good point.

[JOD]

[QUOTE=The Modfather;6436609]My memory of Lennon at Hampden is getting the formation/personnel wrong from the start (McGeough at left midfield v Aberdeen), acknowledging it wasn’t working, making the right changes but having left too big a job to fully recover.
Dinnae reright history. We were beaten when our cup winning legend Daz deflected the baw into the net. F. all to do wi tactics.

[Iain G]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

It's possible that with a different manager or with different players that something different may have happened,yes that's possible...🙄

[GreenCastle]

He needs to win games though, it sounds simple but that's the only thing that will turn folk around now. There needs to be an improvement in performances and an improvement in form.

The Jack Ross fan club can let us know when’s it time to start winning those games - or even some performances to match..

St Johnstone semi final - 3-0 / play well for 20 mins (10th-30th min).
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone draw recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals - everyone could see it coming.
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home 2nd home game performance.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - absolutely awful performance
Livi at home - winning 4-0 away then 3-0 going on 5+ at home.
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection in semi final ..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience (leader / club Captain) and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes supposedly 2nd in our assist. Mallan won the game against Alloa - not even on bench. Doidge not starting for all the crosses we put in.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

Not accepting means fans will voice opinions on this messageboard to hopefully educate others what’s happening. Fans will also stop spending ££ during a time when £ is already tight for some. Not accepting means drop in ST sales, worse HSL uptake and a serious missed opportunity for more £££ reaching the final and all the benefits a cup win brings - new fans / merchandise/ ST sales etc.

[flash]

[QUOTE=The Modfather;6436609]My memory of Lennon at Hampden is getting the formation/personnel wrong from the start (McGeough at left midfield v Aberdeen), acknowledging it wasn’t working, making the right changes but having left too big a job to fully recover.
Dinnae reright history. We were beaten when our cup winning legend Daz deflected the baw into the net. F. all to do wi tactics.
Yeah it wasn't tactics. We didn't have to completely change our formation in the first half hour.

[MWHIBBIES]

The Jack Ross fan club can let us know when’s it time to start winning those games - or even some performances to match..

St Johnstone semi final - 3-0 / play well for 20 mins (10th-30th min).
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone draw recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals - everyone could see it coming.
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home 2nd home game performance.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - absolutely awful performance
Livi at home - winning 4-0 away then 3-0 going on 5+ at home.
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection in semi final ..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience (leader / club Captain) and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes supposedly 2nd in our assist. Mallan won the game against Alloa - not even on bench. Doidge not starting for all the crosses we put in.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

Not accepting means fans will voice opinions on this messageboard to hopefully educate others what’s happening. Fans will also stop spending ££ during a time when £ is already tight for some. Not accepting means drop in ST sales, worse HSL uptake and a serious missed opportunity for more £££ reaching the final and all the benefits a cup win brings - new fans / merchandise/ ST sales etc.

3-0 win over Aberdeen
Draws with old firm
win at Hearts
4-1 away at Livi
3-0 away at Motherwell, 4-0 at Hamilton
reaching 2 semi finals
signing quality players
being 4th, well in contention for 3rd
Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point

[calumhibee1]

What he said is actually happening. What you have said might well happen but is going to take something a bit more extreme to end up that way.

And you think he is the one that shouldn’t believe what he is saying?

You think it’s going to take something more ‘extreme’ for Livi to catch us than it would us to catch Celtic?

[flash]

3-0 win over Aberdeen
Draws with old firm
win at Hearts
4-1 away at Livi
3-0 away at Motherwell, 4-0 at Hamilton
reaching 2 semi finals
signing quality players
being 4th, well in contention for 3rd
Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point

He will be gutted that you haven't been "educated" by his post.

[James Stephen]

Having had time to think about
The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m

Played 3, lost 3.

Now Pat Fenlon, there was the man we wanted. Played 2, won 2, schooled the great Craig Brown and even afford to give one of our opponents a 3 goal head start at half time.

Absolute winner.

[flash]

Played 3, lost 3.

Now Pat Fenlon, there was the man we wanted. Played 2, won 2, schooled the great Craig Brown and even afford to give one oof our opponents a 3 goal head start at half time.

Absolute winner.
I think you have secured best post of the day already.

[James Stephen]

I think you have secured best post of the day already.

Why thank you 😁

[FilipinoHibs]

I've decided not to accept Saturdays result. What do I do now?

Storm Hampden and demand the result is overturned.

[Iain G]

After the dust has settled... let's have yet another thread moaning about Jack Ross and comparing him to other managers. Smashing.

How do you think John Blackley would have done?

[flash]

Why thank you 😁

Nice to see a good point made with humour.

[superfurryhibby]

What he said is actually happening. What you have said might well happen but is going to take something a bit more extreme to end up that way.

And you think he is the one that shouldn’t believe what he is saying?

Celtic are six points ahead with two games in hand. Aberdeen are two in front, with a game in hand. Livi are eight points behind, with one in hand.

Livi are on an incredible run of winnng form. In recent games we have been royally humped by Ross County, Livi and St Johnstone.

Predicting that we are more likely to end up fifth rather than second or third, not that extreme given the circumstances ( the circumstances being that our manager is making increasingly erratic team selections, the team is playing dire football)

Out of interest, what do you think is likely to happen at Hibs?

[GreenCastle]

3-0 win over Aberdeen - Good result - awful Dons team that day - he’s lost other 2 Aberdeen games.

Draws with old firm - 2-2 against Rangers decent - even Drey Wright was good - both Celtic games missed opportunities- but didn’t include them above as too harsh.

win at Hearts - up there with Aberdeen win but Stendal just came in and Hearts were useless. 2nd half we didn’t do much after 2-0 at half time.

4-1 away at Livi - good win - Livi sacked manger / why the 3-0 change around since ?

3-0 away at Motherwell - good win - like Livi / changed manager now for a reason.

4-0 at Hamilton - bottom of the league for a reason

reaching 2 semi finals - losing to main rivals in division below and 3-0 to a club with no where near our resources - don’t see that as a success.

signing quality players - Nisbet and McGinn probably only players to get pass marks as consistent performers so far. Others have either been injured - not match fit or Wright for example not good enough.

being 4th, well in contention for 3rd - also could easily end up 5th as Livi have improved and we have plateaued.

Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point - last minute Gray goal and losing goals / being behind to part time teams isn’t exactly anything I would be boasting about

See above

[GreenCastle]

He will be gutted that you haven't been "educated" by his post.

What even does this mean?

Also don’t assume every poster on this site is a man - some would say that’s lacking education / poor judgement.

[flash]

see above

ffs.

[flash]

What even does this mean?

Also don’t assume every poster on this site is a man - some would say that’s lacking education / poor judgement.

Read your own post. You mentioned educating fans. You are male though.

[Jones28]

I admire your optimism, but I’m not quite convinced you actually believe any of that.

Thats up to you, I prefer to look at the positives of a situation rather than the negatives. I believe we will get out of this rut and will get back to winning ways, the way Jack Ross had us winning games at the start of the season and the way he changed our fortunes last season means he has bought himself the rest of the season and the summer IMO.

Tonight will be a step too far, but we then have a not too bad run of games to try and make something of this season after that, including a big game against Aberdeen.

[MWHIBBIES]

See above

:faf: no winning here. Every win has a but, every loss judged purely on result.

[Jones28]

The Jack Ross fan club can let us know when’s it time to start winning those games - or even some performances to match..

St Johnstone semi final - 3-0 / play well for 20 mins (10th-30th min).
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone draw recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals - everyone could see it coming.
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home 2nd home game performance.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - absolutely awful performance
Livi at home - winning 4-0 away then 3-0 going on 5+ at home.
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection in semi final ..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience (leader / club Captain) and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes supposedly 2nd in our assist. Mallan won the game against Alloa - not even on bench. Doidge not starting for all the crosses we put in.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

Not accepting means fans will voice opinions on this messageboard to hopefully educate others what’s happening. Fans will also stop spending ££ during a time when £ is already tight for some. Not accepting means drop in ST sales, worse HSL uptake and a serious missed opportunity for more £££ reaching the final and all the benefits a cup win brings - new fans / merchandise/ ST sales etc.

See below, but don't let facts get in the way of educating us all as to how ***** we are.

Being selective about performances is pointless, because for every poor one theres a good one to counter it. FFS you're even citing wins as evidence of how rubbish we are. I remember not so long ago that grinding out wins and winning ugly were something we could only dream of, now we have shown that can win ugly (Alloa, Betfred games, 1-0 against St Mirren a couple of examples) and win by smashing teams (Motherwell, Livingston, Hamilton Accies), but it still isn't enough?

We can all be selective about games to suit our arguments, for both sides of the coin.


3-0 win over Aberdeen
Draws with old firm
win at Hearts
4-1 away at Livi
3-0 away at Motherwell, 4-0 at Hamilton
reaching 2 semi finals
signing quality players
being 4th, well in contention for 3rd
Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point

[stantonhibby]

:faf: no winning here. Every win has a but, every loss judged purely on result.

Indeed....that's how it seems to work now.

[superfurryhibby]

Thats up to you, I prefer to look at the positives of a situation rather than the negatives. I believe we will get out of this rut and will get back to winning ways, the way Jack Ross had us winning games at the start of the season and the way he changed our fortunes last season means he has bought himself the rest of the season and the summer IMO.

Tonight will be a step too far, but we then have a not too bad run of games to try and make something of this season after that, including a big game against Aberdeen.

I've been supportive of Ross thus far, albeit with nagging doubts. The semi final just tipped me over the brink.

Trying to be objective, but finding myself struggling to maintain any faith that the manager knows what he's doing. Signings have been a mixed bag, tactics seem clueless, team lacks fight, team selections becoming more erratic, manager acting like a bit of a fud during an interview.

He probably has enough credit to see out the season. However, there is still c 1/3 of that season left. My feeling is that Gordon has invested significantly in HIbs. Is he going to be content with what's happened so far? If this poor form continues or gets even worse, Ross's position will be questioned and rightly so.

[Keith_M]

Storm Hampden and demand the result is overturned.


We won, and we won BIG!


Now where's my fake Horns...

[Jones28]

I've been supportive of Ross thus far, albeit with nagging doubts. The semi final just tipped me over the brink.

Trying to be objective, but finding myself struggling to maintain any faith that the manager knows what he's doing. Signings have been a mixed bag, tactics seem clueless, team lacks fight, team selections becoming more erratic, manager acting like a bit of a fud during an interview.

He probably has enough credit to see out the season. However, there is still c 1/3 of that season left. My feeling is that Gordon has invested significantly in HIbs. Is he going to be content with what's happened so far? If this poor form continues or gets even worse, Ross's position will be questioned and rightly so.

I agree RG has invested, and he, like all of us, will be disappointed with that last month or so. I also imagine he is looking at the situation with COVID and will be giving a bit of extra allowance to the manager. He might have even had a look at the league table and decided that, for the money he has spent so far, fourth is not a bad place to be.

[superfurryhibby]

I agree RG has invested, and he, like all of us, will be disappointed with that last month or so. I also imagine he is looking at the situation with COVID and will be giving a bit of extra allowance to the manager. He might have even had a look at the league table and decided that, for the money he has spent so far, fourth is not a bad place to be.

Will Gordon trust the manager to invest any additional funds wisely? I'm guessing that Ross had more to spend on players than most Hibs managers over recent years. He's signed some decent players, some injured players and one pal. We still have lack of competition in key areas of the team and an over abundance of players in other positions. Ross clearly doesn't trust the regular subs enough to start them (Gray, McGregor, Gullan, McGinn, Bradley).

It's getting messy for me. Bringing Allan on on Saturday seemed like a desperate measure. Starting Cadden was always a gamble. Nisbet, Doidge and Boyle are struggling for form.

Where would you draw the line?

Gordon clearly has ambitions for Hibs and I don't think he's going to be all that patient with his investment.

[calumhibee1]

I agree RG has invested, and he, like all of us, will be disappointed with that last month or so. I also imagine he is looking at the situation with COVID and will be giving a bit of extra allowance to the manager. He might have even had a look at the league table and decided that, for the money he has spent so far, fourth is not a bad place to be.

I know it won’t come as a surprise this coming from someone on the other side of the Jack Ross debate, but maybe RG might look at the situation with covid - most clubs struggling yet weve heavily backed the manager and thought that we should be doing better on that basis?

Whilst where we are in the league and how good it is/how much of a success a cup semi is is up for debate between us all, I doubt RG will be making allowances for our performance due to COVID when we’ve backed JR very handsomely, especially compared to most others in this league. I actually felt in the summer that he seemed like he was taking a bad situation and using it for an opportunity for us to use it to our advantage. If he is then I don’t think there’ll be any allowances.

[Peevemor]

I know it won’t come as a surprise this coming from someone on the other side of the Jack Ross debate, but maybe RG might look at the situation with covid - most clubs struggling yet weve heavily backed the manager and thought that we should be doing better on that basis?

Whilst where we are in the league and how good it is is up for debate between us all, I doubt RG will be making allowances for our performance due to COVID when we’ve backed JR very handsomely, especially compared to most others in this league. I actually felt in the summer that he seemed like he was taking a bad situation and using it for an opportunity for us to use it to our advantage. If he is then I don’t think there’ll be any allowances.

But our league position reflects the investment does it not?

And out of the 2 SFs that we've lost, one was also against a team spending more than us.

[calumhibee1]

But our league position reflects the investment does it not?

And out of the 2 SFs that we've lost, one was also against a team spending more than us.

Our league position does. Our cup performance and general performance have left a lot to be desired this season though and I doubt he’ll be making allowances for them due to COVID.

As I said, the league position/cup performance is a different debate. The point of my post is that I can’t see allowances being made due to COVID. From our spending this summer I’d suggest it looks like we’re going for it a bit. I’d fancy RG will want our season to reflect that, something which whilst it’s been done in the league in terms of points picked up, hasn’t been done in the cups and hasn’t been done in terms of style of play imo. He’ll have his own ideas of what is acceptable though and I suppose that’s where we’ll see how long he sticks with JR for.

[matty_f]

Our league position does. Our cup performance and general performance have left a lot to be desired this season though and I doubt he’ll be making allowances for them due to COVID.

As I said, the league position/cup performance is a different debate. The point of my post is that I can’t see allowances being made due to COVID. From our spending this summer I’d suggest it looks like we’re going for it a bit. I’d fancy RG will want our season to reflect that, something which whilst it’s been done in the league in terms of points picked up, hasn’t been done in the cups and hasn’t been done in terms of style of play.

Playing devil's advocate - cup performance has seen us reach the semi final in each of the last two cup competitions, something not even Rangers and Celtic, with all their financial muscle, or Aberdeen, have achieved.

In one of the semis, we lost (very narrowly) to a club with a bigger budget than ours.

There are loads of ways to spin the story to suit a narrative but if Ron Gordon is basing performance on how much he's spent then we compare favourably to a lot of clubs just on cup runs.

Despite talking down the route to the semi final, it's not as straightforward as just being the better/bigger team, as much as we'd all like it to be.

Aberdeen got knocked out by St Mirren
Hearts by Alloa
Rangers by St Mirren
Celtic by Ross County
St Johnstone needed penalties to get past Dunfermline
Stranraer beat Hamilton

We lost to a St Johnstone team where the record over the last 24 games going into the semi was 8 wins each and 8 draws.

[Jones28]

Will Gordon trust the manager to invest any additional funds wisely? I'm guessing that Ross had more to spend on players than most Hibs managers over recent years. He's signed some decent players, some injured players and one pal. We still have lack of competition in key areas of the team and an over abundance of players in other positions. Ross clearly doesn't trust the regular subs enough to start them (Gray, McGregor, Gullan, McGinn, Bradley).

It's getting messy for me. Bringing Allan on on Saturday seemed like a desperate measure. Starting Cadden was always a gamble. Nisbet, Doidge and Boyle are struggling for form.

Where would you draw the line?

Gordon clearly has ambitions for Hibs and I don't think he's going to be all that patient with his investment.

The only signings that haven't delivered have been Wright and S McGinn for me, and we've been able to bring Jackson and Cadden in too, so I would suggest that RG does trust the manager.

Surely we are all delighted to see Allan back? Who cares what the context was. I would suggest it was seen as an opportunity to give him some game time before we go in to this difficult run of fixtures.

I would draw the line if we slip down the league and can't turn this form around and base it on this seasons final league position. 5th would be the minimum for me, dependant on a good run in the cup. If we have a ppor run in the cup then 4th. I get that people are getting the sense he wont be able to turn this around but shouldn't he get a bit more time to sort it out?

Gordon has invested in a football club, he will know it's a long term project.

[Jones28]

Our league position does. Our cup performance and general performance have left a lot to be desired this season though and I doubt he’ll be making allowances for them due to COVID.

As I said, the league position/cup performance is a different debate. The point of my post is that I can’t see allowances being made due to COVID. From our spending this summer I’d suggest it looks like we’re going for it a bit. I’d fancy RG will want our season to reflect that, something which whilst it’s been done in the league in terms of points picked up, hasn’t been done in the cups and hasn’t been done in terms of style of play imo. He’ll have his own ideas of what is acceptable though and I suppose that’s where we’ll see how long he sticks with JR for.

Why?

[calumhibee1]

Playing devil's advocate - cup performance has seen us reach the semi final in each of the last two cup competitions, something not even Rangers and Celtic, with all their financial muscle, or Aberdeen, have achieved.

In one of the semis, we lost (very narrowly) to a club with a bigger budget than ours.

There are loads of ways to spin the story to suit a narrative but if Ron Gordon is basing performance on how much he's spent then we compare favourably to a lot of clubs just on cup runs.

Despite talking down the route to the semi final, it's not as straightforward as just being the better/bigger team, as much as we'd all like it to be.

Aberdeen got knocked out by St Mirren
Hearts by Alloa
Rangers by St Mirren
Celtic by Ross County
St Johnstone needed penalties to get past Dunfermline
Stranraer beat Hamilton

We lost to a St Johnstone team where the record over the last 24 games going into the semi was 8 wins each and 8 draws.

Yup, he might well be happy with it.

I just can’t see him looking at our cup exit to our lower league rivals, our capitulation against a team with half our budget or a possible downturn in ST sales due to folk being bored as by our style of play and just being happy to write it off because of COVID.

I reckon he’s seen an opportunity this summer with COVID and attempted to take it and as such, if anything he’ll be wanting more, not willing to accept less. That’s just my opinion though.

[calumhibee1]

Why?

I outlined why in my post. We backed our manager heavily in the summer while other teams have been toiling. I’d suspect that was done quite deliberately due to the situation - an opportunity to use the situation to our advantage if you will. I’d be surprised if upon such investment if he then turned round and was willing to make allowances.

Again, that’s just my opinion though - who knows, we maybe even scaled back what we were planning on spending this season on the squad and if that’s the case then maybe allowances will be made.

[Andy74]

I outlined why in my post. We backed our manager heavily in the summer while other teams have been toiling. I’d suspect that was done quite deliberately due to the situation - an opportunity to use the situation to our advantage if you will. I’d be surprised if upon such investment if he then turned round and was willing to make allowances.

Again, that’s just my opinion though - who knows, we maybe even scaled back what we were planning on spending in the summer on the squad and if that’s the case then maybe allowances will be made.

Ron Gordon doesn’t strike me as reactionary or a short term thinker. I suspect he’ll be very happy with how things are going. I’m sure he’ll be disappointed with the semi final results but I don’t think they will have a huge bearing on how he is assessing performance or more importantly the direction we are headed.

[calumhibee1]

Ron Gordon doesn’t strike me as reactionary or a short term thinker. I suspect he’ll be very happy with how things are going. I’m sure he’ll be disappointed with the semi final results but I don’t think they will have a huge bearing on how he is assessing performance or more importantly the direction we are headed.

He might well be. I’m not sure any of us know enough about RG to really know if he’s reactionary or a short term thinker though. The proof will be in the pudding on that front.

[B.H.F.C]

The only signings that haven't delivered have been Wright and S McGinn for me, and we've been able to bring Jackson and Cadden in too, so I would suggest that RG does trust the manager.


Magennis and Murphy?
.

[calumhibee1]

Magennis and Murphy?
.

Magennis is absolutely in the hasn’t delivered category for me.

Murphy is a bit more difficult to pin down. Clearly a good player but when you actually look back he’s not done a lot.

[Jones28]

Magennis and Murphy?
.

Injured.

Murphy has had fits and starts, people have raved about him in previous games, he had a bit of a stinker on Saturday.

[Jones28]

I outlined why in my post. We backed our manager heavily in the summer while other teams have been toiling. I’d suspect that was done quite deliberately due to the situation - an opportunity to use the situation to our advantage if you will. I’d be surprised if upon such investment if he then turned round and was willing to make allowances.

Again, that’s just my opinion though - who knows, we maybe even scaled back what we were planning on spending this season on the squad and if that’s the case then maybe allowances will be made.

I dont see that, IMO it was a bit of opportunism to get some young talent cheaper than normal.

[B.H.F.C]

Injured.

Murphy has had fits and starts, people have raved about him in previous games, he had a bit of a stinker on Saturday.

I get that Magennis has been injured but, although thats not his fault, he’s certainly not delivered. He was just on his way back from a cruciate so there was always a chance of that happening. I think there is also questions about how he’s been used when he has been available.

[FilipinoHibs]

We have invested heavily for the future, with most new players not fully fit - physically or match. Ross will get to at least the end of the season to see how he manages the situation. Allan also just coming back

[superfurryhibby]

Magennis and Murphy?
.

Given that both represent significant investment for Hibs, neither have delivered. Murphy has been decent in some games, but he’s missed too many and given some poor performances in others.

Magennis, so far I’ve seen nothing at all to justify the long contract.

Basing our plans on signing players recovering from serious injury ( Wright, Magennis and Murphy) is a major gamble in my view. Thus far this hasn’t been shown to be successful.

Ross will get to the end of the season, unless it all turns catastrophic. Time will tell if he has what it takes, but for me it’s looking more and more like an imbalanced and rudderless ship.

[Jones28]

I get that Magennis has been injured but, although thats not his fault, he’s certainly not delivered. He was just on his way back from a cruciate so there was always a chance of that happening. I think there is also questions about how he’s been used when he has been available.

He's been injured so he can't deliver. It's like someone asking you to go to the shop for milk even though you've broken your leg, then that same person asks you why you haven't been to the shop.

He was left mid from what I recall when he scored his cross/shot goal - St Mirren maybe? I thought he played well and was a good choice for that position.

[superfurryhibby]

He's been injured so he can't deliver. It's like someone asking you to go to the shop for milk even though you've broken your leg, then that same person asks you why you haven't been to the shop.

He was left mid from what I recall when he scored his cross/shot goal - St Mirren maybe? I thought he played well and was a good choice for that position.

We signed Wright, Magennis and Murphy all recovering from serious injury. Do you think that has been a wise strategy?

[Jones28]

Given that both represent significant investment for Hibs, neither have delivered. Murphy has been decent in some games, but he’s missed too many and given some poor performances in others.

Magennis, so far I’ve seen nothing at all to justify the long contract.

Basing our plans on signing players recovering from serious injury ( Wright, Magennis and Murphy) is a major gamble in my view. Thus far this hasn’t been shown to be successful.

Ross will get to the end of the season, unless it all turns catastrophic. Time will tell if he has what it takes, but for me it’s looking more and more like an imbalanced and rudderless ship.

I don't think we will end up paying anything for him will we? Isn't a loan this year then a 1 year perm deal when his Rangers contract expires? He signed a 3 year deal in 2018.

[Jones28]

We signed Wright, Magennis and Murphy all recovering from serious injury. Do you think that has been a wise strategy?

For a 21 year old captain of his club? 100% the correct decision.

The other 2 were bigger gambles but I didn't hear any criticism at the time.

[B.H.F.C]

He's been injured so he can't deliver. It's like someone asking you to go to the shop for milk even though you've broken your leg, then that same person asks you why you haven't been to the shop.

He was left mid from what I recall when he scored his cross/shot goal - St Mirren maybe? I thought he played well and was a good choice for that position.

You said only Wright and McGinn has failed to deliver. But are we now agreeing Magennis hasn’t either, regardless of why? I hope he goes on to change it but I don’t think he’s a left midfielder, despite one decent cross in to the box against Dundee Utd.

And a couple of assists and a couple of goals (only 1 and 1 in the league) has been nowhere near enough from Murphy either. Not been the upgrade I hoped for when he replaced Horgan.

[calumhibee1]

I get that Magennis has been injured but, although thats not his fault, he’s certainly not delivered. He was just on his way back from a cruciate so there was always a chance of that happening. I think there is also questions about how he’s been used when he has been available.

If Magennis is still getting injured because he’s coming back from a serious injury then questions need to be asked about Hibs role in his rehab. We’re 3 and a half months down the line from his return. He should have been fit ages ago, even allowing for a niggle or two

If not then he has really just been a disappointing signing based on his injuries/performances when available.

[Jones28]

You said only Wright and McGinn has failed to deliver. But are we now agreeing Magennis hasn’t either, regardless of why? I hope he goes on to change it but I don’t think he’s a left midfielder, despite one decent cross in to the box against Dundee Utd.

And a couple of assists and a couple of goals (only 1 and 1 in the league) has been nowhere near enough from Murphy either. Not been the upgrade I hoped for when he replaced Horgan.

Semantics. He hasn't delivered because he can't, not because he hasn't played well. So no, I don't agree.

I agree we haven't seen enough, but the chopping and changing hasn't given any of these players a decent run in the side. That IMO is Ross's biggest failing, he hasn't been able to find a settled selection.

[B.H.F.C]

Semantics. He hasn't delivered because he can't, not because he hasn't played well. So no, I don't agree.

I agree we haven't seen enough, but the chopping and changing hasn't given any of these players a decent run in the side. That IMO is Ross's biggest failing, he hasn't been able to find a settled selection.

Whether it’s down to the club, manager or him or injury it’s not worked out so far. Whatever way you look at it, he’s no delivered anything on the pitch to date.

I do agree on the bit about the settled team but I think that is self inflicted. We’ve signed a bunch of what look like decent players but I just don’t see what the plan is for fitting them together. The focus seems to have been getting players that can play in multiple positions rather than piecing together a team. You’ve got the likes of Boyle playing wing back, right of a four, right of a three or up front in a two and you don’t really know what it’s going to be from week to week.

[hhibs]

Yup, he might well be happy with it.

I just can’t see him looking at our cup exit to our lower league rivals, our capitulation against a team with half our budget or a possible downturn in ST sales due to folk being bored as by our style of play and just being happy to write it off because of COVID.

I reckon he’s seen an opportunity this summer with COVID and attempted to take it and as such, if anything he’ll be wanting more, not willing to accept less. That’s just my opinion though.


That is how I see it too.

RG will want results and failure resulting in a significant decrease in income from season tickets and other revenue streams will see more changes.

[Iain G]

Whether it’s down to the club, manager or him or injury it’s not worked out so far. Whatever way you look at it, he’s no delivered anything on the pitch to date.

I do agree on the bit about the settled team but I think that is self inflicted. We’ve signed a bunch of what look like decent players but I just don’t see what the plan is for fitting them together. The focus seems to have been getting players that can play in multiple positions rather than piecing together a team. You’ve got the likes of Boyle playing wing back, right of a four, right of a three or up front in a two and you don’t really know what it’s going to be from week to week.

He hasn't found a system that works with all of our better players in their correct positions or he hasn't signed the right players to work in the formation he wants to play.

Nisbet works best with Doidge up front, so you play 2 up, but then our midfield hasn't had the personnel to effectively play a 2 in central midfield to accommodate 2 wingers, so if you play a 3 with 2 up front where does Boyle play?

My thought is that a variation of 532 / 5212 / 5122 probably works best with the players we now have depending how attacking or defensive we want to be, swapping the midfield as required (considering this leaves out Magennis, Gogic, Murphy, Cadden, Mallan, Hallberg there are many options in there). We can also shift to a 4 at the back easily with Boyle pushed forward.

Something like:

Rocky

Boyle McGinn Porto Hanlon Doig

Allan Irvine Newell

Nisbet Doidge

However am not sure if you can play Doig and Doidge in the same team as it REALLY confused the numpties commentating on our games and drives me mad... :greengrin

[Hibiza]

Who said the dust has settled? yup .